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{\an8}Why we paying for the child
that doesn't go to school anymore?
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Your child was dismissed from school
for cheating!
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He did have a paper with him,
but he did not cheat!
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He got caught three times.
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- What do you do?
- [Judy] You tell your son,
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"You better straighten up,"
stop making excuses.
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[announcer]
This is Judy Justice.
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{\an8}♪
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{\an8}[announcer]
Robin Slagle is suing her customer,
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{\an8}Jack Mkrtchyan, for tuition
and administrative fees.
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[bailiff]
Court come to order. All rise.
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Have a seat, please.
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{\an8}Hello, Judge.
Case number 2126,
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{\an8}Slagle versus Mkrtchyan.
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{\an8}- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
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- You run a school.
- [Robin] Yes, ma'am, it's a program.
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[Judy]
Is it a school or a program?
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- It's a program.
- [Judy] What's the difference?
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{\an8}[Robin] The program is not a school
where the children come every day.
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{\an8}They come twice a week.
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- Parents...
- They come twice a week online?
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- No. We are...
- [Judy] In person?
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- In person. Yes.
- [Judy] OK, so twice a week
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they are there,
at a brick-and-mortar place?
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- Yes.
- And how long have you had this program?
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We actually started this program
during the lockdown in 2020, spring,
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so this is the end of our first semester
of our third year.
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[Judy] OK.
And tell me, who runs the program?
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- I do.
- You have an educational background?
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I do.
I have a master's in education.
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[Judy]
Does anybody run the program with you?
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I have a staff, but I'm the full director.
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Is this an annual program?
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We do operate on a semesterly basis
as far as payments,
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but the classes just roll over
from first semester to second semester.
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- [Judy] And is there a contract?
- Yes.
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OK, and you're gonna show me the contract
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that the defendant signed
on behalf of his son?
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[Robin]
Yes.
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[Judy]
Because that's what this case is about.
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- Yes.
- The only interesting part of the case
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is your son was enrolled in the program.
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He was terminated from the program
for, let's say misconduct.
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- [Jack] That's true.
- [Judy] And it was misconduct
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that was replicated in violation
of the rules at least three times?
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{\an8}- Kind of.
- [Judy] Not kind of.
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{\an8}At least three times,
that you acknowledge.
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{\an8}- OK.
- That's not an "OK".
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That's not an OK,
that's either a "yes" or a "no".
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I mean, I read about three instances
of cheating.
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You acknowledged that in your answer.
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Well, it's different, it's different.
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You mean, he cheated differently?
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No, he didn't cheat differently.
I mean, I can explain.
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[Judy]
It was explained in the papers.
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- OK.
- And you weren't there,
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so you can't explain.
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But you acknowledged the fact
that he cheated,
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he was given a warning, you were advised.
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He cheated again,
you were given a warning,
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and he was allowed to continue.
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On the third such event,
the school terminated him.
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- Is that what I read?
- Yes, ma'am.
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{\an8}[Judy] And that's
what you acknowledge in your papers.
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{\an8}- Yes. Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] OK, well, that's a "yes".
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And he was within a semester,
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you had paid the tuition, and then
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tried to reverse the payment,
'cause you paid on a credit card.
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Yes, I paid with credit card, yes.
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{\an8}OK, and then, when you got the bill,
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{\an8}you challenged that payment,
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{\an8}- which you had, in fact, received,
- Mm-hmm.
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{\an8}and whatever you told
the credit card company,
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{\an8}as a result of what you told them,
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{\an8}the payment was reversed
and taken off your credit card.
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{\an8}- That is correct.
- [Judy] Right.
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And so they are here now,
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seeking that tuition payment from a court.
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That's why we're here, to see
whether, contractually,
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'cause this is a breach
of contract action,
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you are obligated to pay the tuition,
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even though your son
was not in the program,
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because he was dismissed for cause.
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Which you acknowledge.
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Are we clear on where we are?
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- Yes, ma'am.
- Yes, ma'am.
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[Judy] Good.
So now, I'm going to look at the contract.
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[Robin]
I'd like to add that, um...
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[Judy] Just let me
look at the contract first.
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[Robin]
OK.
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If you see contract there signed by--
by my party, I want to see it, too,
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'cause I don't see my name,
I sign a contract.
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That's a statement, probably,
or it's a...
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- It's a payment agreement.
- [Robin] Yeah.
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That's not a contract.
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[Judy] Yeah, a payment agreement
is a contract, sir.
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- [Jack] But signed by--by me?
- Well, it says "signed:
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"Irina Jack".
Is Irina your wife?
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- That's correct, yeah.
- [Judy] OK.
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So this says, "I understand
that payments are due even if classes
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or memberships are dropped,
subject to the refund policy."
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Well, what's the refund policy
and where is that in writing?
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It is on our website.
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They sign it with the form
that they had to sign.
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Well, I'd like to see the form
that they signed.
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[Judy] 'Cause I have to see
what the terms are of that.
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[Robin]
These are the terms of... the refund.
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- [Judy] Thank you.
- That's a screen shot of our website.
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[Judy]
The website is unimportant to me.
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You say you have an agreement
signed by them.
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{\an8}- I'd like to see it.
- Well, the agreement that we have signed
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{\an8}was the installment agreement.
So I'm sorry...
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{\an8}Well, I only have one payment agreement.
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What I said I want to see
is a refund policy.
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You said you have that,
that they signed, I don't see the...
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They don't sign the policy.
They sign the agreement,
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the policy is a written policy.
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[Judy] Well, I would like to see
the written policy.
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That's what we have on our website,
and it's clearly...
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- No.
- [Robin] No? OK.
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No. What you have to do is,
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you have to incorporate something
by agreement in this contract.
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If you say, "the refund policy
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as outlined in the website,"
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'cause, other than that, it's meaningless.
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- OK.
- [Judy] You know.
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You're saying, "We have a refund policy,
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and we assumed that you looked
on the website
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to see what the policy is."
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We also do go over it,
um, in parent meetings with the parents...
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That you can't do,
because you have a written agreement.
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- Right.
- [Judy] And anything that's outside
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of that agreement,
unless it's referenced in the agreement,
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- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] is inadmissible,
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because the intention of it
is to somehow change or modify
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the terms of your written contract.
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OK. So, in what month
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did the defendant's son
start the program?
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In August of 2021.
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And it runs in two semesters?
And when was he terminated?
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He was terminated in February of 2022.
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[Judy]
You were in a semester program?
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- [Robin] Yes.
- So, am I correct
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that the first two episodes of cheating
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- were in the first semester?
- Yes.
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- When?
- [Robin] The first one
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was early in November, it happened to be
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the third week of our second semester.
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The next one was a couple weeks later,
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in the same month of November.
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[Judy]
OK. So, the semester had started.
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- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] "Uh-huh" is not "yes".
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And on what day in February
was he terminated?
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He was terminated on February 24th,
I believe. Yes.
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[Judy] And when you terminated
the defendant, I assume,
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paid the entire semester's tuition
for the second semester?
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{\an8}The second semester, he signed
the installment agreement,
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{\an8}which is what you have there.
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- This is a payment agreement.
- [Robin] Right.
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That's it.
He agreed to pay in installments.
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[Judy]
No. It says, "I agree to pay all charges
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by due dates,
according to the payment plan."
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I don't have a signed payment plan.
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From anybody.
Do you have one?
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I'm sorry, that's what we use
for our signed payment plan.
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Well, you should use something different.
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[Judy] This is not a payment plan,
this says he will pay
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according to a payment plan.
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I'm looking for the payment plan.
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You pay by the month,
you pay by the semester...
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- How do you pay?
- It's a semesterly fee
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that's broken into four payments.
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So they don't have to pay it all upfront.
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- OK.
- [Robin] They can choose to.
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And... so, when
was the defendant's last payment?
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They paid through the semester.
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- [Judy] Through what semester?
- Second semester.
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[Judy]
OK, so they paid in full?
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Through the installment.
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So, what happens is,
they agree to be automatically billed.
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And so, every month, they,
a certain amount comes out...
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Just a second.
So, what you're saying is,
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when they sign up,
they give you authority
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- to pull out from their bank
- Yes.
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[Judy]
whatever the tuition is for that month?
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- [Robin] Right.
- [Judy] OK.
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And according to your records,
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when was the last payment
that you received
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{\an8}for the defendant's son
prior to terminating him?
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{\an8}Prior to terminating him,
we received a payment in February.
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- And you terminated him on February 24th?
- [Robin] Yes.
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How much was that payment?
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[Robin] It was...
have it right here...
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You know what?
I don't know.
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- $350. Every month.
- That's 300... that's right. $350.
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I know, I got charged the extra month,
so I knew the number.
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OK. So, it was $350
that you paid the beginning of February,
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- and he was there in February?
- That is correct.
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[Judy]
OK.
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00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,166
In what month did you dispute the charge?
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00:08:57,166 --> 00:08:58,767
- [Jack] Well, I...
- No, no. Not "well".
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00:08:58,867 --> 00:09:01,734
- I said in what month...
- May.
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I only realized in May,
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- she's been charging...
- Shh. Just a second.
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He was plagiarized by teachers.
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He was plagiarized by teachers?
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He was given notice because
he lied on a test by teacher, yeah?
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But it's not exactly what happened.
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They're not in the business
of expelling children,
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they're in the business
of keeping children in school.
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- [Jack] But...
- [Judy] You really have to
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get this through your head.
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[chuckles]
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{\an8}♪
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{\an8}[announcer]
Robin Slagle claims her customer,
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00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:43,734
{\an8}Jack Mkrtchyan, owes for tuition
and administrative fees.
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So, you paid in February,
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- and your son was there in February?
- [Jack] That is correct.
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[Judy]
Did you pay in March?
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- Oh, it was taken out of my account
- [Judy] Yes.
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without me knowing, but yes.
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- [Judy] Is that $350?
- That is correct.
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00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,900
- And did you pay in April?
- [Jack] I did pay in April.
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{\an8}[Judy]
OK. Now, the May payment,
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00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,834
{\an8}is the May payment the payment
that you canceled?
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00:10:05,934 --> 00:10:09,233
{\an8}No. On the May, I also paid
for a May payment.
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Looking at my statements, I said,
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"Why are we paying for the child?
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He doesn't go to school anymore."
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And, uh, that's when I called them
231
00:10:17,767 --> 00:10:20,467
and, uh, then I called
my credit card company,
232
00:10:20,567 --> 00:10:21,767
explained what happened.
233
00:10:21,767 --> 00:10:25,467
They said, "We are gonna
charge the money back to your account."
234
00:10:25,567 --> 00:10:30,100
And that's when I kind of
looked through paperwork,
235
00:10:30,100 --> 00:10:32,600
and I'm, um, I'm an immigrant
in this country,
236
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,467
I don't, I don't read really well,
I can speak.
237
00:10:35,567 --> 00:10:37,633
And my son, he's a young guy,
238
00:10:37,734 --> 00:10:40,233
and he knows exactly what it is,
and that's what I brought him.
239
00:10:40,233 --> 00:10:42,934
I said, "Can you see,
do we owe these people money?"
240
00:10:42,934 --> 00:10:46,400
And if you guys allow it,
I can have Alex to explain
241
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,100
what here shows...
242
00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:50,500
Just see it, he doesn't
have to explain anything to me.
243
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,567
{\an8}- OK.
- [Judy] I'm not new to the country,
244
00:10:52,567 --> 00:10:55,233
{\an8}and I was legally trained,
245
00:10:55,233 --> 00:10:56,433
{\an8}so I don't need...
246
00:10:56,433 --> 00:10:59,000
{\an8}your son, I assume
you're not legally trained
247
00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,200
{\an8}- I am not.
- [Judy] to interpret something,
248
00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:02,500
{\an8}a piece of paper?
249
00:11:02,500 --> 00:11:05,834
So, now I will look at the piece of paper
that you're relying on,
250
00:11:05,834 --> 00:11:07,834
but I want to tell you this, sir.
251
00:11:09,667 --> 00:11:11,900
I've paid the tuition for a lot of people.
252
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,333
A lot.
253
00:11:13,333 --> 00:11:15,166
'Cause I have 13 grandchildren...
254
00:11:15,166 --> 00:11:17,166
- Okay.
- [Judy] in school.
255
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:18,133
OK.
256
00:11:18,133 --> 00:11:20,300
I'll take that, Kevin.
Thank you, I'm sorry.
257
00:11:21,367 --> 00:11:25,200
I know that if one of my kids or grandkids
258
00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:28,300
goes to school and gets expelled,
259
00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:31,066
and I've paid the tuition,
'cause I'm not a payment plan.
260
00:11:31,166 --> 00:11:34,567
Parents send the bill directly
[chuckling]...
261
00:11:34,667 --> 00:11:37,834
and... and... so I pay the tuition,
262
00:11:37,834 --> 00:11:40,500
but I know if one of the kids
263
00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:43,633
in November,
once I've paid the tuition,
264
00:11:43,633 --> 00:11:46,867
gets caught cheating on a test,
265
00:11:46,967 --> 00:11:48,900
or plagiarizing a paper,
266
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,700
and he or she is dismissed
from the school,
267
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,800
they're not gonna give me my tuition back.
268
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,133
Even though he's not in school.
269
00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:58,066
I'm not gonna get the tuition back
for that semester.
270
00:11:58,166 --> 00:11:59,500
That's true.
271
00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:00,867
[Judy]
That's what I'm telling you.
272
00:12:00,867 --> 00:12:02,200
I know that.
273
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,100
So, now I'm gonna see
what you want me to read
274
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,633
that suggests that in this case,
275
00:12:06,734 --> 00:12:10,266
even though your son
was terminated for cause
276
00:12:10,367 --> 00:12:11,633
from the school for cheating.
277
00:12:11,734 --> 00:12:14,066
Dismissal versus termination
is different.
278
00:12:14,066 --> 00:12:16,367
[Judy]
No, no, no, it's not different, at all.
279
00:12:16,367 --> 00:12:19,767
It's the exact same thing,
dismissed, terminated,
280
00:12:19,867 --> 00:12:21,867
expelled, all the same thing.
281
00:12:21,867 --> 00:12:24,567
If you look them up
under synonyms for each other,
282
00:12:24,567 --> 00:12:27,367
in the dictionary, you will find
they're all the same.
283
00:12:27,367 --> 00:12:30,800
He was excised from the school
284
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:35,633
because he cheated,
despite multiple warnings.
285
00:12:35,734 --> 00:12:38,033
So he was expelled from cause.
286
00:12:38,033 --> 00:12:40,367
I just want you to understand that.
Did you go to college?
287
00:12:40,367 --> 00:12:43,633
- Currently enrolled.
- [Judy] Currently? Stand up.
288
00:12:43,734 --> 00:12:45,767
You look like a nice young man.
Where do you go to school?
289
00:12:45,867 --> 00:12:48,600
- Uh, Cal Poly Pomona.
- [Judy] And who pays the tuition?
290
00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:50,734
Uh, I do.
291
00:12:50,734 --> 00:12:51,734
[Judy]
Now, what's your first name?
292
00:12:51,734 --> 00:12:53,300
- Alex.
- [Judy] Now, Alex,
293
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,100
You do know that if you got expelled
294
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,200
from college for cheating
in the middle of a semester,
295
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,667
you wouldn't get your tuition back
for that semester?
296
00:13:02,767 --> 00:13:03,934
- You do know that?
- Correct.
297
00:13:03,934 --> 00:13:06,600
OK. That's all I wanted to know.
Well, that's what we're dealing with here.
298
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:07,867
- [Alex] Could I add something?
- Sure.
299
00:13:07,967 --> 00:13:09,867
{\an8}Well, according to their honesty policy,
300
00:13:09,967 --> 00:13:13,700
{\an8}they made a clear difference
between dismissal and expulsion.
301
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,834
- I'm gonna look at it. OK?
- [Alex] OK.
302
00:13:22,367 --> 00:13:25,467
- [Judy] OK. So, what you gave me,
- Mm-hmm?
303
00:13:25,467 --> 00:13:27,600
[Judy]
now, acknowledges that you
304
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,700
received the refund policy.
305
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,934
Thank you very much,
'cause she wasn't able
306
00:13:31,934 --> 00:13:34,467
to prove that she gave it to you, but now,
307
00:13:34,467 --> 00:13:38,133
you gave it to me, so I know
you were given the refund policy
308
00:13:38,133 --> 00:13:39,700
when you enrolled your son in school.
309
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,200
{\an8}So, we weren't given, but it's something,
they have it on their website
310
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:44,934
{\an8}- for you to, I didn't sign.
- [Judy] Just a second.
311
00:13:44,934 --> 00:13:47,300
You don't have to sign.
Then, you looked at the website.
312
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:48,633
You gave me this.
313
00:13:48,633 --> 00:13:50,800
- Do you understand?
- After this happened,
314
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,033
I went and tried to understand
what happened.
315
00:13:53,133 --> 00:13:53,967
[Judy]
Well, you should've done it before.
316
00:13:53,967 --> 00:13:56,700
You were perfectly capable
of doing it before.
317
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,300
The contract I signed,
and I explain everything...
318
00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:02,166
You just told me five minute ago
that you didn't sign any contract.
319
00:14:02,166 --> 00:14:05,333
Well, now you've acknowledged
that you signed the contract.
320
00:14:05,333 --> 00:14:07,033
I'm just reading this, that you gave me.
321
00:14:07,033 --> 00:14:09,033
[Jack] A contract has to be
a complete contract,
322
00:14:09,033 --> 00:14:10,900
- it says that something...
- [Judy] Just a second...
323
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,734
For somebody who's, you know,
not here, not from this country,
324
00:14:14,834 --> 00:14:17,367
and doesn't understand things,
you seem to understand things very well.
325
00:14:17,367 --> 00:14:19,934
I know the contract has to be completed.
326
00:14:20,033 --> 00:14:22,567
Well, that's very good,
a lot of people don't know that.
327
00:14:22,667 --> 00:14:25,200
[Jack] So, if I give a contract
for a statement,
328
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,166
then I say, "Oh, go on my website
to read about our refund policy,"
329
00:14:29,166 --> 00:14:31,367
that's not part of the contract,
that's the rules, no?
330
00:14:31,367 --> 00:14:33,533
I didn't sign refund policy.
331
00:14:33,533 --> 00:14:35,533
You don't have to sign a refund policy,
332
00:14:35,533 --> 00:14:37,233
you just have to be aware of it.
333
00:14:37,333 --> 00:14:40,166
If I don't know how to get into website...
334
00:14:40,166 --> 00:14:41,333
You gave me the evidence!
335
00:14:41,333 --> 00:14:43,166
[Jack] Uh, these are done
after everything done...
336
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:44,066
I-- I'm not sure.
337
00:14:44,166 --> 00:14:45,667
[Judy]
You were certainly aware
338
00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:48,433
of how to do it,
either before or after.
339
00:14:48,533 --> 00:14:51,567
When I sign contract with somebody,
I disclose everything,
340
00:14:51,667 --> 00:14:54,100
and they initial, and they get copies,
I get copies,
341
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,867
and that's a legal binding contract.
342
00:14:55,867 --> 00:14:57,166
Good. What law school did you go to?
343
00:14:57,166 --> 00:14:58,400
None.
344
00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:02,066
Well, there are two things here.
345
00:15:02,066 --> 00:15:05,433
But the final piece here says,
346
00:15:05,433 --> 00:15:10,066
"The consequence for academic dishonesty
or plagiarism
347
00:15:10,066 --> 00:15:12,767
is a score of zero on the assignment
348
00:15:12,767 --> 00:15:15,900
- and possibly dismissal from the class."
- OK.
349
00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:20,567
So, your son did that
in the first semester at least twice.
350
00:15:20,567 --> 00:15:25,233
"Repeated dishonesty can result
in suspension or expulsion."
351
00:15:25,233 --> 00:15:28,567
Now... now, you can stand up,
because your father says
352
00:15:28,567 --> 00:15:29,800
he doesn't understand everything.
353
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:31,834
I think he understands everything
just fine.
354
00:15:31,934 --> 00:15:33,834
But in case he wants to have you there,
355
00:15:33,934 --> 00:15:37,066
{\an8}now, when you were discussing this
with your father,
356
00:15:37,066 --> 00:15:38,100
{\an8}- Mm-hmm.
- [Judy] Did you have
357
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,734
{\an8}any conversation with him
that suggested to him
358
00:15:40,734 --> 00:15:43,233
{\an8}that, you know,
"If I went to college, and I cheated
359
00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,734
{\an8}three times or four times,
or plagiarized a paper,
360
00:15:45,734 --> 00:15:47,467
{\an8}- and I was kicked out of school,
- [Alex] Mm-hmm.
361
00:15:47,567 --> 00:15:49,567
{\an8}I wouldn't get my tuition back."
362
00:15:49,567 --> 00:15:50,800
Did you tell him that?
363
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,567
No. We had, uh, similar talks,
364
00:15:54,567 --> 00:15:57,467
but no, nothing on the school.
365
00:15:57,567 --> 00:15:59,633
We talked about, for instance,
signing a contract,
366
00:15:59,734 --> 00:16:01,200
for, let's say,
a one-year lease agreement
367
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:04,166
to live somewhere.
But if you breach the contract,
368
00:16:04,166 --> 00:16:05,900
and they decide to kick you out,
369
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,333
it's the same thing as an explusion.
370
00:16:07,333 --> 00:16:09,700
You're not required to finish
the one-year contract with them.
371
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,033
You don't have to continue paying.
372
00:16:11,133 --> 00:16:12,533
What, are you kidding?
373
00:16:12,633 --> 00:16:15,133
I am not.
If you get evicted from a property,
374
00:16:15,133 --> 00:16:17,700
do you have to continue paying
the entire year's lease?
375
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,367
Yeah. If you breach,
if you breach a lease?
376
00:16:21,467 --> 00:16:23,500
He and she can evict you.
377
00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,033
And yes, you will be responsible
for the remainder of the lease.
378
00:16:26,133 --> 00:16:28,667
- Oh. I wasn't aware of that.
- [Judy] Yes.
379
00:16:28,667 --> 00:16:30,800
You will be responsible
for the remainder of the lease.
380
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,467
You have to understand,
and your father has to understand,
381
00:16:33,467 --> 00:16:36,667
the reason that he was expelled
is his fault.
382
00:16:36,667 --> 00:16:38,967
And the reason he was expelled
383
00:16:38,967 --> 00:16:41,000
had nothing to do with them.
384
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,166
It had to do with your father.
385
00:16:43,166 --> 00:16:46,033
Because you were put on notice
386
00:16:46,133 --> 00:16:48,333
that he was plagiarizing
387
00:16:48,333 --> 00:16:50,867
and cheating on tests.
388
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:56,633
If what you're suggesting
is the three times
389
00:16:56,633 --> 00:16:58,533
that your son was caught cheating
390
00:16:58,633 --> 00:17:00,200
were the only times he cheated,
391
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,033
you're deluding yourself.
392
00:17:02,033 --> 00:17:04,533
He got caught three times.
393
00:17:04,533 --> 00:17:07,533
Because if these were the only three times
that he cheated,
394
00:17:07,533 --> 00:17:10,066
he is the unluckiest person on the planet.
395
00:17:16,433 --> 00:17:22,233
{\an8}♪
396
00:17:22,233 --> 00:17:25,300
{\an8}[announcer]
Robin Slagle has accused her customer,
397
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,533
{\an8}Jack Mkrtchyan,
of refusing to pay tuition.
398
00:17:28,533 --> 00:17:31,400
Jack claims he is not required to pay
399
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,266
because his son was dismissed
from her school.
400
00:17:34,367 --> 00:17:36,133
[Judy]
You were put on notice,
401
00:17:36,233 --> 00:17:38,700
and instead of being more vigilant,
402
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,467
the conduct continued.
403
00:17:40,567 --> 00:17:41,700
He lives in your house.
How old is he?
404
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:43,867
- Uh, 14.
- [Judy] Fourteen.
405
00:17:43,867 --> 00:17:45,200
{\an8}- Well...
- [Jack] I want to ask about
406
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,967
{\an8}this plagiarizing thing, which it is,
because remember,
407
00:17:49,066 --> 00:17:52,300
{\an8}beginning, you ask me,
that he was plagiarized
408
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,433
{\an8}by teachers, which I was not...
409
00:17:54,533 --> 00:17:56,934
He was plagiarized by teachers?
410
00:17:57,033 --> 00:17:58,633
Like, he--he was given notice
411
00:17:58,734 --> 00:18:00,967
because he lied on a test
by teacher, yeah?
412
00:18:00,967 --> 00:18:04,100
But it's not... it's not exactly
what happened.
413
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:06,000
Well, then you should've,
just a second.
414
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,000
Then you should've contested it, sir.
415
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:09,834
- Well, if...
- [Judy] You should've contested it.
416
00:18:09,934 --> 00:18:12,867
If they decided they don't want him
to be out of the-- out of the school,
417
00:18:12,967 --> 00:18:15,200
they don't want him to be there,
what do you do,
418
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:17,200
- [Jack] I mean, you go fight with them?
- What do you do? What do you do?
419
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,700
You pay the tuition for that semester,
420
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,667
because that's
your contractual obligation,
421
00:18:21,767 --> 00:18:24,033
and you tell your son,
"You better straighten up,
422
00:18:24,133 --> 00:18:26,266
and if I have to take you
to a psychiatrist,
423
00:18:26,266 --> 00:18:27,934
if I have to take you to a therapist,
424
00:18:27,934 --> 00:18:31,433
if I have to find
a more rigid school environment,
425
00:18:31,433 --> 00:18:32,433
I'm gonna do that."
426
00:18:32,433 --> 00:18:34,767
[Jack]
Well, he didn't cheat, but...
427
00:18:34,767 --> 00:18:36,867
[Judy] You really have
to get this through your head.
428
00:18:36,967 --> 00:18:39,867
[Jack] When it says cheating,
last time he was expelled from school,
429
00:18:39,967 --> 00:18:41,533
- do we have a...
- [Judy] No, don't look at her.
430
00:18:41,633 --> 00:18:46,433
{\an8}[Jack] That day he had an excellent score
on his Math, and his last test
431
00:18:46,433 --> 00:18:51,033
{\an8}was the-- his History, and he forgot
to learn the History,
432
00:18:51,133 --> 00:18:53,367
{\an8}- and he did have a paper with him,
- [Judy chuckles]
433
00:18:53,467 --> 00:18:54,333
{\an8}but he did not cheat.
434
00:18:54,433 --> 00:18:56,500
{\an8}Actually, there is no proof
he cheated that day.
435
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,266
All right. They're not in the business
of expelling children,
436
00:18:59,266 --> 00:19:01,700
they're in the business
of keeping children in school.
437
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,100
How many of the students
were expelled from the school
438
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,600
the semester that this defendant's son
was expelled?
439
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:10,000
- Zero.
- Yeah.
440
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,533
They're in business
of keeping children in school.
441
00:19:13,533 --> 00:19:16,533
Guess my son was that bad
for her to expel her.
442
00:19:16,533 --> 00:19:19,767
She said they didn't expel
any other children.
443
00:19:19,867 --> 00:19:23,233
I'm gonna ask her, how many children
were enrolled in the program
444
00:19:23,333 --> 00:19:26,367
at the same time the defendant's
son was enrolled in the program?
445
00:19:26,367 --> 00:19:28,600
Approximately 70, 75.
446
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:30,934
OK, and of the 70 to 75 students,
447
00:19:31,033 --> 00:19:33,867
the only student expelled
was the defendant's son?
448
00:19:33,867 --> 00:19:35,333
- Yes, ma'am.
- [Judy] That should tell you
449
00:19:35,333 --> 00:19:37,767
something, sir.
Stop making excuses.
450
00:19:37,867 --> 00:19:40,000
- [Jack] OK.
- I didn't-- he didn't look at the paper,
451
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,900
he had it underneath him,
but he didn't look at it.
452
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,600
Well, plagiarizing,
so he copied from somebody,
453
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:48,600
on a paper that was supposed to be
original work.
454
00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:50,700
Did it once, he did it twice...
455
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:52,667
Do you understand your son has a problem?
456
00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:55,500
- Well, we all have problems.
- [audience chuckling]
457
00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:57,100
No, I never had a problem
being expelled from school,
458
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,834
- [Jack] I'm not perfect.
- sir, for cheating.
459
00:19:58,834 --> 00:20:01,834
I never had a problem
being expelled from school for cheating.
460
00:20:01,834 --> 00:20:03,667
- I have lied.
- I have five children
461
00:20:03,667 --> 00:20:05,266
and 13 grandchildren.
462
00:20:05,367 --> 00:20:07,367
All have completed college.
463
00:20:07,367 --> 00:20:09,500
Some professional school.
464
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,500
None of them have ever been
expelled for cheating.
465
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,333
That's a lot of people.
466
00:20:13,333 --> 00:20:16,767
Do you feel it's fair to expel a child
from school because of...
467
00:20:16,867 --> 00:20:18,000
- Cheating?
- [Jack] Cheating?
468
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,500
Absolutely!
469
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:22,000
[Judy] Not that I usually
let people ask me questions,
470
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,567
but the answer is, absolutely.
471
00:20:24,667 --> 00:20:27,667
Because if 70 children are working hard
472
00:20:27,667 --> 00:20:30,500
to get good grades and studying,
473
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:33,333
and creating original works
474
00:20:33,333 --> 00:20:35,166
when they're supposed
to create original works,
475
00:20:35,166 --> 00:20:39,066
and your son, who's getting a 99
on a Math test,
476
00:20:39,166 --> 00:20:41,834
when he's been getting low scores
on tests, all of a sudden
477
00:20:41,834 --> 00:20:44,567
becomes a shining star one day,
478
00:20:44,667 --> 00:20:48,700
and it's a pattern,
and then they find another cheat sheet
479
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,266
under his bottom,
that's something that suggests
480
00:20:52,367 --> 00:20:55,700
to the other 70 students
that are trying to do the right thing,
481
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:57,500
then it's OK to cheat,
482
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,467
and so, if you want
to cheat on this test
483
00:21:00,567 --> 00:21:02,900
to get a 99, it's OK.
484
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:06,166
You can't run a school
where you permit kids
485
00:21:06,266 --> 00:21:10,567
to mingle with kids who are trying,
with kids who are cheating.
486
00:21:10,567 --> 00:21:13,166
So, do I think it's fair?
Absolutely.
487
00:21:13,266 --> 00:21:16,500
OK. How much money
was reversed by this bank?
488
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,266
$1,050, plus $45,
489
00:21:20,266 --> 00:21:22,667
a $15 fee per transaction.
490
00:21:22,767 --> 00:21:24,633
[Judy]
$1,095.
491
00:21:24,734 --> 00:21:28,633
OK, judgment for the plaintiff
in the amount of $1,095.
492
00:21:28,734 --> 00:21:31,166
Sir, your problem is not
with the plaintiff.
493
00:21:31,266 --> 00:21:33,266
Your problem's with your son.
494
00:21:33,266 --> 00:21:35,900
He--he's like all of us,
he made a mistake, and...
495
00:21:35,900 --> 00:21:37,100
[Judy] No, he didn't
make one mistake.
496
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:40,066
I'm gonna tell you something. Honestly.
497
00:21:40,066 --> 00:21:43,800
I used to say, when I was practicing
in a different court,
498
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:45,900
that if criminals got caught
499
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:48,834
the first time or every time
that they committed a crime,
500
00:21:48,934 --> 00:21:50,734
they'd stop committing crimes.
501
00:21:50,734 --> 00:21:55,133
The problem is, they commit a crime,
and they don't get caught.
502
00:21:55,233 --> 00:21:57,567
And then commit another crime,
and they don't get caught.
503
00:21:57,567 --> 00:22:00,233
Then, they commit the third crime,
and they get caught,
504
00:22:00,333 --> 00:22:01,200
and they're brought to court.
505
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:05,367
And their lawyer argues,
this is their first arrest.
506
00:22:05,467 --> 00:22:08,667
Not their first crime,
'cause they can't argue that,
507
00:22:08,667 --> 00:22:09,800
but it's the first arrest.
508
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,333
So, if what you're suggesting
509
00:22:12,333 --> 00:22:15,467
is, the three times that your son
was caught cheating
510
00:22:15,467 --> 00:22:17,333
were the only times he cheated,
511
00:22:17,333 --> 00:22:19,467
you're deluding yourself.
512
00:22:19,467 --> 00:22:21,533
He got caught three times.
513
00:22:21,633 --> 00:22:23,834
Because if these were the only three times
514
00:22:23,834 --> 00:22:26,500
that he cheated,
he is the unluckiest person
515
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:27,834
on the planet.
516
00:22:27,834 --> 00:22:28,800
OK, we're done here.
517
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,000
Ten ninety-five,
judgment for the plaintiff.
518
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,700
- Thank you, Your Honor.
- [bailiff] This court is adjourned.
519
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,533
{\an8}I felt, uh, the difference
was between, um,
520
00:22:36,633 --> 00:22:40,333
{\an8}uh, different wording, what it means,
521
00:22:40,333 --> 00:22:43,900
{\an8}as far as being expelled
versus being, like, sent home.
522
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,367
{\an8}I'm extremely pleased.
523
00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:48,467
{\an8}This was totally a matter
of honesty and integrity,
524
00:22:48,467 --> 00:22:51,367
{\an8}and obviously, it, uh, stems from
525
00:22:51,467 --> 00:22:53,166
{\an8}the father down to the son.
526
00:22:53,166 --> 00:22:55,967
{\an8}But he explained that's the same word,
and again,
527
00:22:55,967 --> 00:22:58,166
{\an8}um, that's why you come to court,
528
00:22:58,166 --> 00:23:01,066
{\an8}and she did what she had to do.
529
00:23:01,066 --> 00:23:03,600
{\an8}We have kids that try to cross the line,
530
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:05,033
{\an8}and come close to that line,
531
00:23:05,033 --> 00:23:07,934
{\an8}but as I mentioned, our instructors
are pretty savvy, and they're on it,
532
00:23:08,033 --> 00:23:10,033
{\an8}and we can tell, pretty much, so...
533
00:23:10,033 --> 00:23:13,100
{\an8}I am happy it's finally done.
It's been a burden, it's been a stress,
534
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,934
{\an8}and, uh, and, uh, hopefully, done.
535
00:23:16,033 --> 00:23:17,700
{\an8}Cheaters never win.
536
00:23:19,533 --> 00:23:22,266
So, I think it's really important
for the plaintiffs,
537
00:23:22,367 --> 00:23:24,934
as the runners of a homeschooling system,
538
00:23:25,033 --> 00:23:26,533
or a schooling system,
539
00:23:26,533 --> 00:23:28,734
to have a better contract for the parents
540
00:23:28,734 --> 00:23:31,266
that are signing, especially
with a payment plan option.
541
00:23:31,367 --> 00:23:34,633
There should be exhibits
attached to the signature page,
542
00:23:34,734 --> 00:23:38,900
not just referencing, "Oh, we're agreeing
that we read the policy from the website."
543
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:40,967
It's just as easy for you to reprint it,
544
00:23:41,066 --> 00:23:43,734
attach it, and require
a signature, an initial
545
00:23:43,734 --> 00:23:46,300
on the bottom, so that
you don't have parents like these,
546
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,767
that say, "I never went
to the website, I never saw it."
547
00:23:48,867 --> 00:23:50,533
- I agree with you.
- If you have problems like this,
548
00:23:50,533 --> 00:23:53,900
there's no denying the fact that
you initialed each page and each policy.
549
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:55,867
I think that this
is a learning experience,
550
00:23:55,867 --> 00:23:58,767
because they just started the program
in 2020.
551
00:23:58,867 --> 00:24:02,500
And this is probably
the first experience that they've had,
552
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,266
because he's the first,
they haven't expelled anybody else.
553
00:24:05,266 --> 00:24:07,033
[Judy]
But they'll clean up the contract.
554
00:24:07,133 --> 00:24:08,133
For sure.
555
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:10,967
[announcer]
Want justice?
556
00:24:10,967 --> 00:24:13,367
{\an8}Go to JudyJustice.tv.