Why we paying for the child that doesn't go to school anymore?
Your child was dismissed from school for cheating!
He did have a paper with him, but he did not cheat!
He got caught three times.
- What do you do? - [Judy] You tell your son,
"You better straighten up," stop making excuses.
[announcer] This is Judy Justice.
♪
[announcer] Robin Slagle is suing her customer,
Jack Mkrtchyan, for tuition and administrative fees.
[bailiff] Court come to order. All rise.
Have a seat, please.
Hello, Judge. Case number 2126,
Slagle versus Mkrtchyan.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
- You run a school. - [Robin] Yes, ma'am, it's a program.
[Judy] Is it a school or a program?
- It's a program. - [Judy] What's the difference?
[Robin] The program is not a school where the children come every day.
They come twice a week.
- Parents... - They come twice a week online?
- No. We are... - [Judy] In person?
- In person. Yes. - [Judy] OK, so twice a week
they are there, at a brick-and-mortar place?
- Yes. - And how long have you had this program?
We actually started this program during the lockdown in 2020, spring,
so this is the end of our first semester of our third year.
[Judy] OK. And tell me, who runs the program?
- I do. - You have an educational background?
I do. I have a master's in education.
[Judy] Does anybody run the program with you?
I have a staff, but I'm the full director.
Is this an annual program?
We do operate on a semesterly basis as far as payments,
but the classes just roll over from first semester to second semester.
- [Judy] And is there a contract? - Yes.
OK, and you're gonna show me the contract
that the defendant signed on behalf of his son?
[Robin] Yes.
[Judy] Because that's what this case is about.
- Yes. - The only interesting part of the case
is your son was enrolled in the program.
He was terminated from the program for, let's say misconduct.
- [Jack] That's true. - [Judy] And it was misconduct
that was replicated in violation of the rules at least three times?
- Kind of. - [Judy] Not kind of.
At least three times, that you acknowledge.
- OK. - That's not an "OK".
That's not an OK, that's either a "yes" or a "no".
I mean, I read about three instances of cheating.
You acknowledged that in your answer.
Well, it's different, it's different.
You mean, he cheated differently?
No, he didn't cheat differently. I mean, I can explain.
[Judy] It was explained in the papers.
- OK. - And you weren't there,
so you can't explain.
But you acknowledged the fact that he cheated,
he was given a warning, you were advised.
He cheated again, you were given a warning,
and he was allowed to continue.
On the third such event, the school terminated him.
- Is that what I read? - Yes, ma'am.
[Judy] And that's what you acknowledge in your papers.
- Yes. Yes, ma'am. - [Judy] OK, well, that's a "yes".
And he was within a semester,
you had paid the tuition, and then
tried to reverse the payment, 'cause you paid on a credit card.
Yes, I paid with credit card, yes.
OK, and then, when you got the bill,
you challenged that payment,
- which you had, in fact, received, - Mm-hmm.
and whatever you told the credit card company,
as a result of what you told them,
the payment was reversed and taken off your credit card.
- That is correct. - [Judy] Right.
And so they are here now,
seeking that tuition payment from a court.
That's why we're here, to see whether, contractually,
'cause this is a breach of contract action,
you are obligated to pay the tuition,
even though your son was not in the program,
because he was dismissed for cause.
Which you acknowledge.
Are we clear on where we are?
- Yes, ma'am. - Yes, ma'am.
[Judy] Good. So now, I'm going to look at the contract.
[Robin] I'd like to add that, um...
[Judy] Just let me look at the contract first.
[Robin] OK.
If you see contract there signed by-- by my party, I want to see it, too,
'cause I don't see my name, I sign a contract.
That's a statement, probably, or it's a...
- It's a payment agreement. - [Robin] Yeah.
That's not a contract.
[Judy] Yeah, a payment agreement is a contract, sir.
- [Jack] But signed by--by me? - Well, it says "signed:
"Irina Jack". Is Irina your wife?
- That's correct, yeah. - [Judy] OK.
So this says, "I understand that payments are due even if classes
or memberships are dropped, subject to the refund policy."
Well, what's the refund policy and where is that in writing?
It is on our website.
They sign it with the form that they had to sign.
Well, I'd like to see the form that they signed.
[Judy] 'Cause I have to see what the terms are of that.
[Robin] These are the terms of... the refund.
- [Judy] Thank you. - That's a screen shot of our website.
[Judy] The website is unimportant to me.
You say you have an agreement signed by them.
- I'd like to see it. - Well, the agreement that we have signed
was the installment agreement. So I'm sorry...
Well, I only have one payment agreement.
What I said I want to see is a refund policy.
You said you have that, that they signed, I don't see the...
They don't sign the policy. They sign the agreement,
the policy is a written policy.
[Judy] Well, I would like to see the written policy.
That's what we have on our website, and it's clearly...
- No. - [Robin] No? OK.
No. What you have to do is,
you have to incorporate something by agreement in this contract.
If you say, "the refund policy
as outlined in the website,"
'cause, other than that, it's meaningless.
- OK. - [Judy] You know.
You're saying, "We have a refund policy,
and we assumed that you looked on the website
to see what the policy is."
We also do go over it, um, in parent meetings with the parents...
That you can't do, because you have a written agreement.
- Right. - [Judy] And anything that's outside
of that agreement, unless it's referenced in the agreement,
- Mm-hmm. - [Judy] is inadmissible,
because the intention of it is to somehow change or modify
the terms of your written contract.
OK. So, in what month
did the defendant's son start the program?
In August of 2021.
And it runs in two semesters? And when was he terminated?
He was terminated in February of 2022.
[Judy] You were in a semester program?
- [Robin] Yes. - So, am I correct
that the first two episodes of cheating
- were in the first semester? - Yes.
- When? - [Robin] The first one
was early in November, it happened to be
the third week of our second semester.
The next one was a couple weeks later,
in the same month of November.
[Judy] OK. So, the semester had started.
- Mm-hmm. - [Judy] "Uh-huh" is not "yes".
And on what day in February was he terminated?
He was terminated on February 24th, I believe. Yes.
[Judy] And when you terminated the defendant, I assume,
paid the entire semester's tuition for the second semester?
The second semester, he signed the installment agreement,
which is what you have there.
- This is a payment agreement. - [Robin] Right.
That's it. He agreed to pay in installments.
[Judy] No. It says, "I agree to pay all charges
by due dates, according to the payment plan."
I don't have a signed payment plan.
From anybody. Do you have one?
I'm sorry, that's what we use for our signed payment plan.
Well, you should use something different.
[Judy] This is not a payment plan, this says he will pay
according to a payment plan.
I'm looking for the payment plan.
You pay by the month, you pay by the semester...
- How do you pay? - It's a semesterly fee
that's broken into four payments.
So they don't have to pay it all upfront.
- OK. - [Robin] They can choose to.
And... so, when was the defendant's last payment?
They paid through the semester.
- [Judy] Through what semester? - Second semester.
[Judy] OK, so they paid in full?
Through the installment.
So, what happens is, they agree to be automatically billed.
And so, every month, they, a certain amount comes out...
Just a second. So, what you're saying is,
when they sign up, they give you authority
- to pull out from their bank - Yes.
[Judy] whatever the tuition is for that month?
- [Robin] Right. - [Judy] OK.
And according to your records,
when was the last payment that you received
for the defendant's son prior to terminating him?
Prior to terminating him, we received a payment in February.
- And you terminated him on February 24th? - [Robin] Yes.
How much was that payment?
[Robin] It was... have it right here...
You know what? I don't know.
- $350. Every month. - That's 300... that's right. $350.
I know, I got charged the extra month, so I knew the number.
OK. So, it was $350 that you paid the beginning of February,
- and he was there in February? - That is correct.
[Judy] OK.
In what month did you dispute the charge?
- [Jack] Well, I... - No, no. Not "well".
- I said in what month... - May.
I only realized in May,
- she's been charging... - Shh. Just a second.
He was plagiarized by teachers.
He was plagiarized by teachers?
He was given notice because he lied on a test by teacher, yeah?
But it's not exactly what happened.
They're not in the business of expelling children,
they're in the business of keeping children in school.
- [Jack] But... - [Judy] You really have to
get this through your head.
[chuckles]
♪
[announcer] Robin Slagle claims her customer,
Jack Mkrtchyan, owes for tuition and administrative fees.
So, you paid in February,
- and your son was there in February? - [Jack] That is correct.
[Judy] Did you pay in March?
- Oh, it was taken out of my account - [Judy] Yes.
without me knowing, but yes.
- [Judy] Is that $350? - That is correct.
- And did you pay in April? - [Jack] I did pay in April.
[Judy] OK. Now, the May payment,
is the May payment the payment that you canceled?
No. On the May, I also paid for a May payment.
Looking at my statements, I said,
"Why are we paying for the child?
He doesn't go to school anymore."
And, uh, that's when I called them
and, uh, then I called my credit card company,
explained what happened.
They said, "We are gonna charge the money back to your account."
And that's when I kind of looked through paperwork,
and I'm, um, I'm an immigrant in this country,
I don't, I don't read really well, I can speak.
And my son, he's a young guy,
and he knows exactly what it is, and that's what I brought him.
I said, "Can you see, do we owe these people money?"
And if you guys allow it, I can have Alex to explain
what here shows...
Just see it, he doesn't have to explain anything to me.
- OK. - [Judy] I'm not new to the country,
and I was legally trained,
so I don't need...
your son, I assume you're not legally trained
- I am not. - [Judy] to interpret something,
a piece of paper?
So, now I will look at the piece of paper that you're relying on,
but I want to tell you this, sir.
I've paid the tuition for a lot of people.
A lot.
'Cause I have 13 grandchildren...
- Okay. - [Judy] in school.
OK.
I'll take that, Kevin. Thank you, I'm sorry.
I know that if one of my kids or grandkids
goes to school and gets expelled,
and I've paid the tuition, 'cause I'm not a payment plan.
Parents send the bill directly [chuckling]...
and... and... so I pay the tuition,
but I know if one of the kids
in November, once I've paid the tuition,
gets caught cheating on a test,
or plagiarizing a paper,
and he or she is dismissed from the school,
they're not gonna give me my tuition back.
Even though he's not in school.
I'm not gonna get the tuition back for that semester.
That's true.
[Judy] That's what I'm telling you.
I know that.
So, now I'm gonna see what you want me to read
that suggests that in this case,
even though your son was terminated for cause
from the school for cheating.
Dismissal versus termination is different.
[Judy] No, no, no, it's not different, at all.
It's the exact same thing, dismissed, terminated,
expelled, all the same thing.
If you look them up under synonyms for each other,
in the dictionary, you will find they're all the same.
He was excised from the school
because he cheated, despite multiple warnings.
So he was expelled from cause.
I just want you to understand that. Did you go to college?
- Currently enrolled. - [Judy] Currently? Stand up.
You look like a nice young man. Where do you go to school?
- Uh, Cal Poly Pomona. - [Judy] And who pays the tuition?
Uh, I do.
[Judy] Now, what's your first name?
- Alex. - [Judy] Now, Alex,
You do know that if you got expelled
from college for cheating in the middle of a semester,
you wouldn't get your tuition back for that semester?
- You do know that? - Correct.
OK. That's all I wanted to know. Well, that's what we're dealing with here.
- [Alex] Could I add something? - Sure.
Well, according to their honesty policy,
they made a clear difference between dismissal and expulsion.
- I'm gonna look at it. OK? - [Alex] OK.
- [Judy] OK. So, what you gave me, - Mm-hmm?
[Judy] now, acknowledges that you
received the refund policy.
Thank you very much, 'cause she wasn't able
to prove that she gave it to you, but now,
you gave it to me, so I know you were given the refund policy
when you enrolled your son in school.
So, we weren't given, but it's something, they have it on their website
- for you to, I didn't sign. - [Judy] Just a second.
You don't have to sign. Then, you looked at the website.
You gave me this.
- Do you understand? - After this happened,
I went and tried to understand what happened.
[Judy] Well, you should've done it before.
You were perfectly capable of doing it before.
The contract I signed, and I explain everything...
You just told me five minute ago that you didn't sign any contract.
Well, now you've acknowledged that you signed the contract.
I'm just reading this, that you gave me.
[Jack] A contract has to be a complete contract,
- it says that something... - [Judy] Just a second...
For somebody who's, you know, not here, not from this country,
and doesn't understand things, you seem to understand things very well.
I know the contract has to be completed.
Well, that's very good, a lot of people don't know that.
[Jack] So, if I give a contract for a statement,
then I say, "Oh, go on my website to read about our refund policy,"
that's not part of the contract, that's the rules, no?
I didn't sign refund policy.
You don't have to sign a refund policy,
you just have to be aware of it.
If I don't know how to get into website...
You gave me the evidence!
[Jack] Uh, these are done after everything done...
I-- I'm not sure.
[Judy] You were certainly aware
of how to do it, either before or after.
When I sign contract with somebody, I disclose everything,
and they initial, and they get copies, I get copies,
and that's a legal binding contract.
Good. What law school did you go to?
None.
Well, there are two things here.
But the final piece here says,
"The consequence for academic dishonesty or plagiarism
is a score of zero on the assignment
- and possibly dismissal from the class." - OK.
So, your son did that in the first semester at least twice.
"Repeated dishonesty can result in suspension or expulsion."
Now... now, you can stand up, because your father says
he doesn't understand everything.
I think he understands everything just fine.
But in case he wants to have you there,
now, when you were discussing this with your father,
- Mm-hmm. - [Judy] Did you have
any conversation with him that suggested to him
that, you know, "If I went to college, and I cheated
three times or four times, or plagiarized a paper,
- and I was kicked out of school, - [Alex] Mm-hmm.
I wouldn't get my tuition back."
Did you tell him that?
No. We had, uh, similar talks,
but no, nothing on the school.
We talked about, for instance, signing a contract,
for, let's say, a one-year lease agreement
to live somewhere. But if you breach the contract,
and they decide to kick you out,
it's the same thing as an explusion.
You're not required to finish the one-year contract with them.
You don't have to continue paying.
What, are you kidding?
I am not. If you get evicted from a property,
do you have to continue paying the entire year's lease?
Yeah. If you breach, if you breach a lease?
He and she can evict you.
And yes, you will be responsible for the remainder of the lease.
- Oh. I wasn't aware of that. - [Judy] Yes.
You will be responsible for the remainder of the lease.
You have to understand, and your father has to understand,
the reason that he was expelled is his fault.
And the reason he was expelled
had nothing to do with them.
It had to do with your father.
Because you were put on notice
that he was plagiarizing
and cheating on tests.
If what you're suggesting is the three times
that your son was caught cheating
were the only times he cheated,
you're deluding yourself.
He got caught three times.
Because if these were the only three times that he cheated,
he is the unluckiest person on the planet.
♪
[announcer] Robin Slagle has accused her customer,
Jack Mkrtchyan, of refusing to pay tuition.
Jack claims he is not required to pay
because his son was dismissed from her school.
[Judy] You were put on notice,
and instead of being more vigilant,
the conduct continued.
He lives in your house. How old is he?
- Uh, 14. - [Judy] Fourteen.
- Well... - [Jack] I want to ask about
this plagiarizing thing, which it is, because remember,
beginning, you ask me, that he was plagiarized
by teachers, which I was not...
He was plagiarized by teachers?
Like, he--he was given notice
because he lied on a test by teacher, yeah?
But it's not... it's not exactly what happened.
Well, then you should've, just a second.
Then you should've contested it, sir.
- Well, if... - [Judy] You should've contested it.
If they decided they don't want him to be out of the-- out of the school,
they don't want him to be there, what do you do,
- [Jack] I mean, you go fight with them? - What do you do? What do you do?
You pay the tuition for that semester,
because that's your contractual obligation,
and you tell your son, "You better straighten up,
and if I have to take you to a psychiatrist,
if I have to take you to a therapist,
if I have to find a more rigid school environment,
I'm gonna do that."
[Jack] Well, he didn't cheat, but...
[Judy] You really have to get this through your head.
[Jack] When it says cheating, last time he was expelled from school,
- do we have a... - [Judy] No, don't look at her.
[Jack] That day he had an excellent score on his Math, and his last test
was the-- his History, and he forgot to learn the History,
- and he did have a paper with him, - [Judy chuckles]
but he did not cheat.
Actually, there is no proof he cheated that day.
All right. They're not in the business of expelling children,
they're in the business of keeping children in school.
How many of the students were expelled from the school
the semester that this defendant's son was expelled?
- Zero. - Yeah.
They're in business of keeping children in school.
Guess my son was that bad for her to expel her.
She said they didn't expel any other children.
I'm gonna ask her, how many children were enrolled in the program
at the same time the defendant's son was enrolled in the program?
Approximately 70, 75.
OK, and of the 70 to 75 students,
the only student expelled was the defendant's son?
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judy] That should tell you
something, sir. Stop making excuses.
- [Jack] OK. - I didn't-- he didn't look at the paper,
he had it underneath him, but he didn't look at it.
Well, plagiarizing, so he copied from somebody,
on a paper that was supposed to be original work.
Did it once, he did it twice...
Do you understand your son has a problem?
- Well, we all have problems. - [audience chuckling]
No, I never had a problem being expelled from school,
- [Jack] I'm not perfect. - sir, for cheating.
I never had a problem being expelled from school for cheating.
- I have lied. - I have five children
and 13 grandchildren.
All have completed college.
Some professional school.
None of them have ever been expelled for cheating.
That's a lot of people.
Do you feel it's fair to expel a child from school because of...
- Cheating? - [Jack] Cheating?
Absolutely!
[Judy] Not that I usually let people ask me questions,
but the answer is, absolutely.
Because if 70 children are working hard
to get good grades and studying,
and creating original works
when they're supposed to create original works,
and your son, who's getting a 99 on a Math test,
when he's been getting low scores on tests, all of a sudden
becomes a shining star one day,
and it's a pattern, and then they find another cheat sheet
under his bottom, that's something that suggests
to the other 70 students that are trying to do the right thing,
then it's OK to cheat,
and so, if you want to cheat on this test
to get a 99, it's OK.
You can't run a school where you permit kids
to mingle with kids who are trying, with kids who are cheating.
So, do I think it's fair? Absolutely.
OK. How much money was reversed by this bank?
$1,050, plus $45,
a $15 fee per transaction.
[Judy] $1,095.
OK, judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $1,095.
Sir, your problem is not with the plaintiff.
Your problem's with your son.
He--he's like all of us, he made a mistake, and...
[Judy] No, he didn't make one mistake.
I'm gonna tell you something. Honestly.
I used to say, when I was practicing in a different court,
that if criminals got caught
the first time or every time that they committed a crime,
they'd stop committing crimes.
The problem is, they commit a crime, and they don't get caught.
And then commit another crime, and they don't get caught.
Then, they commit the third crime, and they get caught,
and they're brought to court.
And their lawyer argues, this is their first arrest.
Not their first crime, 'cause they can't argue that,
but it's the first arrest.
So, if what you're suggesting
is, the three times that your son was caught cheating
were the only times he cheated,
you're deluding yourself.
He got caught three times.
Because if these were the only three times
that he cheated, he is the unluckiest person
on the planet.
OK, we're done here.
Ten ninety-five, judgment for the plaintiff.
- Thank you, Your Honor. - [bailiff] This court is adjourned.
I felt, uh, the difference was between, um,
uh, different wording, what it means,
as far as being expelled versus being, like, sent home.
I'm extremely pleased.
This was totally a matter of honesty and integrity,
and obviously, it, uh, stems from
the father down to the son.
But he explained that's the same word, and again,
um, that's why you come to court,
and she did what she had to do.
We have kids that try to cross the line,
and come close to that line,
but as I mentioned, our instructors are pretty savvy, and they're on it,
and we can tell, pretty much, so...
I am happy it's finally done. It's been a burden, it's been a stress,
and, uh, and, uh, hopefully, done.
Cheaters never win.
So, I think it's really important for the plaintiffs,
as the runners of a homeschooling system,
or a schooling system,
to have a better contract for the parents
that are signing, especially with a payment plan option.
There should be exhibits attached to the signature page,
not just referencing, "Oh, we're agreeing that we read the policy from the website."
It's just as easy for you to reprint it,
attach it, and require a signature, an initial
on the bottom, so that you don't have parents like these,
that say, "I never went to the website, I never saw it."
- I agree with you. - If you have problems like this,
there's no denying the fact that you initialed each page and each policy.
I think that this is a learning experience,
because they just started the program in 2020.
And this is probably the first experience that they've had,
because he's the first, they haven't expelled anybody else.
[Judy] But they'll clean up the contract.
For sure.
[announcer] Want justice?
Go to JudyJustice.tv.