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{\an8}I got kicked in the head by a horse.

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I'm out of work.
They said I have a cognitive deficit.

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"She had horses that were unsound.

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Her young horses were jumping and running
in paddocks with huge boulders.

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It was unsettling."

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You understand what I'm saying.

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<i>This is</i> Judy Justice<i>.</i>

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00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,567
{\an8}<i>Diane Depenbrok is suing
horse breeder, Jessica Austin,</i>

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<i>for the deposit on a horse.</i>

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00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,200
Court, come to order. All rise.

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00:00:45,533 --> 00:00:46,600
Have a seat, please.

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00:00:47,834 --> 00:00:49,433
- Hello, Judge.
- How are you, Kevin?

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00:00:49,433 --> 00:00:52,066
Case 2136, Depenbrok versus Austin.

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- Thank you.
- You're welcome.

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Depenbrok.
Yes.

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You bought a foal,
which is a baby horse,

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in utero, which means
that the horse had not yet had this foal.

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{\an8}But you wanted to place an order for it.

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- And Ms. Austin is in that business.
- Correct.

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You entered into a contract.

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00:01:14,266 --> 00:01:17,467
By the way,
what is the gestation period of a horse?

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Roughly 340 days.

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And at what period
in the horse's pregnancy

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did you enter into this contract
with the Plaintiff?

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{\an8}Roughly three and a half months
into the gestation.

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Okay.

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- Did you have a written contract?
- Yes, Your Honor.

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I'd like to take a look at it
because this is a contract action,

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and it is your claim
that you made a substantial deposit,

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over $3,000, for the horse,
that, when the horse was born,

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it did not meet the specifications
of this contract,

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you wanted your money back.

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- The defendant says that's not true.
- Correct.

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That the horse did meet
all the requirements of this contract.

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The one specifically
that you're referring to

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is something in this contract,
which I will read,

37
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I assume, that says
that the horse must be, once born,

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insurable within the first two days
or 48 hours of its birth.

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And that this horse was not insurable
within 48 hours,

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and therefore, you decided
to terminate the contract.

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- That's your position.
- Yes, Your Honor, I request...

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And it's your position
that the horse was, in fact, insurable.

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That you can prove that because you did,
in fact, get insurance on the horse

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within 48 hours
of the horse's birth, and...

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00:02:28,934 --> 00:02:31,533
So... Part of that...
- No, no, no. Don't...

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00:02:31,533 --> 00:02:34,033
Your position is
you met the conditions of the contract.

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00:02:34,033 --> 00:02:35,200
- Yes.
- Okay.

48
00:02:38,133 --> 00:02:42,400
Okay. "The deposit for 25%
of the purchase price.

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00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,200
The seller agrees
to hold the foal off-market

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exclusively for the buyer
until the foal reaches 48 hours old

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and is deemed insurable."

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00:02:53,467 --> 00:02:56,600
Well, does that mean
the foal is taken from the mother?

53
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:57,834
- And transferred?
- No.

54
00:02:57,834 --> 00:03:00,667
So, the foal stays with the mother
until it's how old?

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{\an8}I choose to wean at six months
because they seem to be better adjusted

56
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if you wait until that period.

57
00:03:07,333 --> 00:03:10,900
Okay. And it's
not that you can't get insurance.

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It's that "a live, healthy foal is defined

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as a foal that is deemed insurable
at 48 hours old.

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And if the mare fails to produce
a live, healthy foal,

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then the buyer may request a refund
of the deposit

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or a credit towards another purchase."

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00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,033
Okay, so the foal was born when?

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June 9th, 2022
at roughly 5:30 in the morning.

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00:03:40,233 --> 00:03:42,967
Okay. Your case, your proof. Okay.

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{\an8}So, I had to find out the foal was born
through Facebook.

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00:03:45,967 --> 00:03:48,400
Okay. Whatever.
- She never notified me.

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00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,667
And then, I went to see the foal
when it was a day old, on Thursday.

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One day old?
I mean... Well...

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Not even. 12 hours old, basically.

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Okay, so it was not a day old.
It was 12 hours old.

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Correct. I'm sorry. 12 hours old.

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June 10th, she told me
the vet would be out at 9:30 a.m.

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00:04:03,533 --> 00:04:05,467
to do the routine foal exam,

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00:04:05,467 --> 00:04:08,367
and I requested
to be notified of the results.

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00:04:08,367 --> 00:04:13,900
Just tell me about the contract.
The foal is born alive and is how old now?

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00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:17,000
She turned five months old
on the 9th of this month.

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Have pictures of her?
I do!

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I'd like to see.

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Oh, she's beautiful.
Thank you.

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Have you seen her?
- I have.

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Recently?
No.

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00:04:36,767 --> 00:04:40,333
Would you show the Plaintiff
these photographs?

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00:04:40,333 --> 00:04:41,400
Yes.

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00:04:48,834 --> 00:04:50,300
Looks perfectly healthy to me.

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00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:52,567
I couldn't get insurance when...
Just a sec.

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Looks perfectly healthy to me.

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And I'm not an expert, but...

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00:04:57,233 --> 00:04:59,400
You would say that that horse
looks pretty healthy.

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00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,867
Yes.
Okay. Great.

91
00:05:00,867 --> 00:05:03,800
So, now the horse is 12 hours old,

92
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,734
{\an8}and tell me the rest.

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00:05:05,734 --> 00:05:08,000
{\an8}So, at 48 hours old,
I had submitted the vet report

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{\an8}to eight insurance companies,

95
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,433
and they all declined
to insure the animal.

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00:05:11,433 --> 00:05:14,133
Just a sec.
You submitted what report?

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00:05:14,133 --> 00:05:18,133
Let me see the report.
And let me see what you received.

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Okay.

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00:05:19,066 --> 00:05:22,934
Did you furnish her
with a report within 48 hours?

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00:05:22,934 --> 00:05:25,767
I furnished her with what the vet gave me.

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00:05:25,767 --> 00:05:29,934
- He did the vet exam at 24 hours old.
- This is the vet report.

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But he had to draw blood
and send it to a lab.

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Okay. Just let me... Shh.
And wait for that...

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This first thing
is dated June 12th, 2022,

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and this laboratory
is sending the report to you,

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and it seems that they put the horse
on a course of antibiotics initially

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for one day
because something came back high,

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but it says, "I do not believe all foals
should automatically get antibiotics,

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however, I stand by our decision to treat

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what turned out to be
a completely normal and healthy foal.

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We can pull follow-up labs to be sure,
but her behavior since the blood sample

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backs up the lab results."

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"Her behavior since the blood samples."
What does that mean?

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So, for a foal to be considered
"doing well behaviorally," it needs...

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What are you a doctor of, first of...
People. Internal medicine.

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Okay.
- For people.

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I brought a witness veterinarian.
You're the vet.

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Okay.

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So now, I have these test results
which I don't understand,

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and I'd like to see your reports
from the insurance companies.

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{\an8}How long was the foal on antibiotics?

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{\an8}She received two doses.

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One the day the vet came out

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and then one the following morning
before he got the blood test results back.

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00:06:52,934 --> 00:06:55,767
- When the blood test results came back...
- They were normal.

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00:06:55,767 --> 00:06:57,100
They were normal?
- Yes.

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He said, "Don't give any more antibiotics.
She does not need them."

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00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,200
And this report that you have...
from one insurance company...

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00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,200
- Or from, actually, all of them...
- Correct.

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00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,000
...say, "Underwriters have declined
to provide coverage at this time

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00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,533
and will reassess
when the foal is off antibiotics."

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00:07:14,533 --> 00:07:18,800
Well, the foal was off antibiotics
within two days.

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00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,867
Mrs. Austin told me she was on antibiotics
for three days, actually...

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Well, either two or three days,
but then the results came back normal.

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00:07:25,266 --> 00:07:27,834
The insurance companies,
each will wait a certain amount of days.

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00:07:27,834 --> 00:07:30,400
So, that particular one
wanted to wait seven days

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00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,734
to reassess
after the foal had been off antibiotics.

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00:07:32,734 --> 00:07:34,800
A few of the companies were 30 days.

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And I think one was 14 days.

140
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But that doesn't matter.
All you need is one.

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00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,200
I was taking a risk
having an animal that's uninsured,

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and I wasn't ready to...

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This is problematic for me.

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Because if I put a deposit down
on something that I really wanted,

145
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,433
and within two or three days,

146
00:07:51,433 --> 00:07:54,133
any question with regard to whether or not

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00:07:54,133 --> 00:07:57,567
the animal was insurable or healthy,

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00:07:57,567 --> 00:08:00,500
if my intention was to honor the contract,

149
00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:04,600
I would say, "Let's see if the results
are normal or abnormal."

150
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,767
Now, the results came back
that the foal was perfectly healthy.

151
00:08:08,767 --> 00:08:11,166
So, unless you had,

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00:08:11,166 --> 00:08:15,834
in my view, something preconceived
that you wanted out of this deal

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00:08:15,834 --> 00:08:19,500
for some reason other than insurability,
it's your horse.

154
00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:22,433
I signed the contract based on the fact
that she could be insured.

155
00:08:22,433 --> 00:08:24,767
The year before,
I purchased another in utero,

156
00:08:24,767 --> 00:08:26,800
and that foal was insured at 24 hours old

157
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,066
and with the same type of contract.
I wasn't...

158
00:08:29,066 --> 00:08:32,133
Well, that's all right.
You understand what I'm saying.

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I understand, but I...
You understand?

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00:08:34,066 --> 00:08:35,867
Because my problem is,

161
00:08:35,867 --> 00:08:38,367
"After I made the deposit,"
according to you,

162
00:08:38,367 --> 00:08:41,800
"some things came to my attention
that gave me anxiety."

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00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,767
This is before the foal was even born.

164
00:08:43,767 --> 00:08:46,333
"I learned about several
of the Plaintiff's horses

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00:08:46,333 --> 00:08:47,967
that had to be put down.

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00:08:47,967 --> 00:08:51,133
She had horses that were unsound,
lame, and missing eyes.

167
00:08:51,133 --> 00:08:55,200
Her young horses were jumping and running
in paddocks with huge boulders.

168
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,800
I also found out
that she tried to sell the mare

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00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,700
that was pregnant with my foal
to a friend of mine.

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00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:02,233
It was unsettling."

171
00:09:02,233 --> 00:09:03,934
Correct.
Right, so...

172
00:09:03,934 --> 00:09:08,300
I'm trying to just put this
in chronological order for myself

173
00:09:08,300 --> 00:09:12,367
to understand whether there was
a true breach of this contract.

174
00:09:14,767 --> 00:09:15,934
{\an8}You have a counterclaim.

175
00:09:15,934 --> 00:09:17,734
{\an8}Yes, Your Honor.
For what?

176
00:09:17,734 --> 00:09:20,700
{\an8}When I originally got the notification
from the court,

177
00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:23,667
{\an8}I got kicked in the head by a horse
on July 4th.

178
00:09:23,667 --> 00:09:26,600
{\an8}And they had done testing.
I'm out of work.

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00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,734
{\an8}They said I have a cognitive deficit...

180
00:09:28,734 --> 00:09:30,767
{\an8}What does that have to do
with what you want?

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00:09:30,767 --> 00:09:31,700
<i>Later...</i>

182
00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:34,433
{\an8}So, this is a picture of the car
before he painted it?

183
00:09:34,433 --> 00:09:36,333
{\an8}No, ma'am. That's after.

184
00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:38,333
{\an8}- Oh, doesn't look bad.
- From afar.

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00:09:38,333 --> 00:09:41,767
{\an8}Listen. When you're born in 1964,
everything looks better from afar.

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00:09:52,734 --> 00:09:57,000
<i>Diane Depenbrok
is suing horse breeder, Jessica Austin,</i>

187
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,000
<i>for the deposit on a horse.</i>

188
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,767
<i>Jessica is countersuing
for breach of contract.</i>

189
00:10:02,767 --> 00:10:06,133
The foal is born on June 9th?
- Correct.

190
00:10:06,133 --> 00:10:10,300
Was given a dose of antibiotics
on the 10th of June,

191
00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:14,333
{\an8}because they were suspicious of something
before the blood was drawn?

192
00:10:14,333 --> 00:10:15,400
{\an8}Correct.

193
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,567
{\an8}Given another dose of antibiotics
in the morning of the 11th.

194
00:10:19,567 --> 00:10:23,467
Correct.
- The blood results come back on the 12th.

195
00:10:23,467 --> 00:10:26,834
Which indicates
that the horse was totally normal.

196
00:10:26,834 --> 00:10:29,567
And you advised her. Correct?

197
00:10:29,567 --> 00:10:32,033
I immediately forwarded the email
to her, correct.

198
00:10:32,033 --> 00:10:36,867
Okay. Now the foal is 50 hours old,

199
00:10:36,867 --> 00:10:39,800
and you're told
that the foal is totally healthy.

200
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,000
I'm not sure that I'm comfortable
with your position

201
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,834
that there was a material breach
of this contract.

202
00:10:46,834 --> 00:10:50,367
I think that a perfectly healthy horse
was born,

203
00:10:50,367 --> 00:10:53,567
and it was
within a reasonable period of time...

204
00:10:53,567 --> 00:10:55,700
May not have been 48 hours,

205
00:10:55,700 --> 00:11:01,633
but they were being very cautious
in starting the course of antibiotics.

206
00:11:01,633 --> 00:11:03,967
You're the vet. Stand up and tell me

207
00:11:03,967 --> 00:11:06,033
{\an8}if I'm not seeing something.

208
00:11:06,033 --> 00:11:08,934
{\an8}The vet who saw the horse... Was that you?

209
00:11:08,934 --> 00:11:10,400
Um, it was not. Okay.

210
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,934
...evidently decided that,
to be very cautious,

211
00:11:13,934 --> 00:11:17,934
they would await
the blood test result on the horse.

212
00:11:17,934 --> 00:11:19,000
- On the baby.
- Mm-hmm.

213
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,600
And start a course of antibiotics
that could be stopped

214
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,166
if the blood tests came back normal.

215
00:11:25,166 --> 00:11:26,633
- Which they did.
- Correct.

216
00:11:26,633 --> 00:11:27,800
Within a day.

217
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,200
No, I don't think
there's been a material breach

218
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:31,867
of this contract by the Defendant.

219
00:11:31,867 --> 00:11:33,400
I think that you're obligated.

220
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,800
If she wanted specific performance,
that's fine,

221
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,700
but you're not entitled
to your deposit back.

222
00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:40,433
I have an email
from the insurance company from the 21st

223
00:11:40,433 --> 00:11:42,300
{\an8}when she finally told me
the foal was insured.

224
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:45,200
Just a second.
- I can't take that risk for two weeks...

225
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,166
- No, no.
- ...on an animal I can't get insured.

226
00:11:47,166 --> 00:11:49,867
But your problem is,
it wasn't two weeks.

227
00:11:49,867 --> 00:11:52,500
Your problem was it was less than a day.

228
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:58,166
Adding it on to that 48-hour period.
And I have to determine

229
00:11:58,166 --> 00:12:00,834
whether that was a material breach
of the contract.

230
00:12:00,834 --> 00:12:03,934
Certainly, if the lab results came back

231
00:12:03,934 --> 00:12:06,700
that show that there was any deficiency
in the horse,

232
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:09,200
I'd say, "Absolutely.
You're entitled to your deposit back."

233
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,467
But they did not.
They came back and they said

234
00:12:11,467 --> 00:12:16,166
that a vet wanted to be very cautious,
but the vet turned out to be wrong.

235
00:12:16,166 --> 00:12:18,400
My contract didn't state anything
about a vet.

236
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,300
I'm telling you, I don't find

237
00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:23,600
that one day was a material breach
of the contract

238
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,900
because if you had then, on the third day,

239
00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:30,867
sent the normal blood test results
out to the same insurance company,

240
00:12:30,867 --> 00:12:33,734
the insurance company would've found
that the horse was insurable.

241
00:12:33,734 --> 00:12:36,133
They wouldn't
because they wanted to wait seven days

242
00:12:36,133 --> 00:12:38,266
until the horse was off antibiotics.

243
00:12:38,266 --> 00:12:41,066
Then you wait seven days.
That's still not a material breach.

244
00:12:41,066 --> 00:12:43,266
She's not asking you
for the rest of the money.

245
00:12:43,266 --> 00:12:45,266
So, if something happened
in those two weeks,

246
00:12:45,266 --> 00:12:47,266
I would've been out $9,000.

247
00:12:47,266 --> 00:12:49,734
That is not accurate.
Just a second. You were not.

248
00:12:49,734 --> 00:12:53,500
You weren't going to take the horse
until the horse was six months old.

249
00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:57,066
I wasn't going to take the horse
if it wasn't... if it couldn't be insured.

250
00:12:57,066 --> 00:13:00,433
Well, it could be insured.
It turned out that the vet was cautious

251
00:13:00,433 --> 00:13:01,500
and you were wrong.

252
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:04,133
And I believe
that you'd already made a decision.

253
00:13:04,133 --> 00:13:05,600
I had not made a decision.

254
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,200
I find there's not
a material breach.

255
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,867
You don't get your deposit back.

256
00:13:08,867 --> 00:13:11,767
{\an8}Now, the horse is yours.
You have a counterclaim.

257
00:13:11,767 --> 00:13:13,166
{\an8}Yes, Your Honor.
For what?

258
00:13:13,166 --> 00:13:18,133
$1,500 for my lawyer costs
and another $100 to file the counterclaim.

259
00:13:18,133 --> 00:13:19,934
For your lawyer's costs for what?

260
00:13:19,934 --> 00:13:23,033
When I originally got
the notification from the court,

261
00:13:23,033 --> 00:13:25,633
I got kicked in the head by a horse
on July 4th.

262
00:13:25,633 --> 00:13:29,000
And they had done testing.
I'm out of work.

263
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,934
They said I have a cognitive deficit
that they're working...

264
00:13:31,934 --> 00:13:34,100
What does that have to do
with what you want?

265
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:36,000
I'm sorry, but what does it have to...

266
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,433
I obtained a lawyer
to represent me in court

267
00:13:39,433 --> 00:13:43,467
because I didn't know if
I would be capable of representing myself.

268
00:13:43,467 --> 00:13:47,500
Oh, well, but you are perfectly capable
of representing yourself.

269
00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:48,967
You don't get your deposit back.

270
00:13:48,967 --> 00:13:52,834
So, now you have a perfectly healthy horse
that you can sell.

271
00:13:52,834 --> 00:13:56,300
And hopefully sell for the same amount
that you sold it to the Plaintiff for

272
00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:57,967
and pay your attorney's fees.

273
00:13:57,967 --> 00:14:00,333
Do you understand?
Because she lost her deposit.

274
00:14:00,333 --> 00:14:03,100
I don't think that there was
a material breach of a contract

275
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:06,233
with an extra one day
to get normal lab results back.

276
00:14:06,233 --> 00:14:08,533
Your case is dismissed.
We're done. Thank you.

277
00:14:08,533 --> 00:14:10,567
This court is adjourned.

278
00:14:10,567 --> 00:14:13,633
{\an8}As the judge read from the contract,

279
00:14:13,633 --> 00:14:17,200
{\an8}as the seller,
I assumed all risk on the foal

280
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,066
{\an8}until she was six months old.

281
00:14:19,066 --> 00:14:21,000
{\an8}You put a lot of money
to make an investment in,

282
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,900
{\an8}and you want to make sure
your assets are covered

283
00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:25,467
{\an8}and the horse can be properly
taken care of if something comes up.

284
00:14:25,467 --> 00:14:27,066
{\an8}Therefore, the argument

285
00:14:27,066 --> 00:14:32,033
{\an8}that the buyer would lose anything
if something happened to the foal

286
00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,133
{\an8}is inaccurate.

287
00:14:33,133 --> 00:14:35,333
{\an8}I'm really happy
with the two horses that I have,

288
00:14:35,333 --> 00:14:37,867
{\an8}and I'll stick with
the ethical breeders I know.

289
00:14:37,867 --> 00:14:43,266
{\an8}And the insurance that we obtained
was based on the exam at 24 hours old,

290
00:14:43,266 --> 00:14:47,100
{\an8}therefore we have proven
that we upheld the contract.

291
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,300
So, one interesting thing
about that case is,

292
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:52,233
as I was looking at the calendar
of what day the horse was born

293
00:14:52,233 --> 00:14:55,367
and when the vet came out first
and when the results came back,

294
00:14:55,367 --> 00:14:58,633
the horse was born on a Friday,
and then the vet came out Saturday,

295
00:14:58,633 --> 00:15:02,367
and I was surprised that any lab
sent labs back on a Sunday.

296
00:15:02,367 --> 00:15:06,633
So, in a business that's so dependent
on something you can't control,

297
00:15:06,633 --> 00:15:08,200
when the horse is going to give birth,

298
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,967
why would the Defendant put,
in her own contract,

299
00:15:10,967 --> 00:15:15,600
a 48-hour... such a tight window
for insurability for the horse?

300
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,433
Maybe it's standard practice.
I don't know standard practices

301
00:15:18,433 --> 00:15:20,200
for horses or anything like that.

302
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,500
It's a very... It's a very...
You're right. It's a tight window.

303
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,467
And my guess is...
Although, I could've asked the question.

304
00:15:26,467 --> 00:15:29,066
...probably standard in that industry.
I'm not sure.

305
00:15:29,066 --> 00:15:32,867
But it's interesting to note that,
in contract law,

306
00:15:32,867 --> 00:15:34,633
unless time is of the essence,

307
00:15:34,633 --> 00:15:37,967
there has to be
some sort of material breach,

308
00:15:37,967 --> 00:15:39,567
and, you know, in this case,

309
00:15:39,567 --> 00:15:43,066
if the Defendant
had not had a vet come out

310
00:15:43,066 --> 00:15:46,300
and look at the horse for a week,
well, that's a different story.

311
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:50,433
She had a vet come out immediately.
The vet was super cautious.

312
00:15:50,433 --> 00:15:53,300
The vet turned out to be,
ultimately, thankfully, mistaken.

313
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:55,333
- There was nothing wrong with the horse.
- Mm-hmm.

314
00:15:55,333 --> 00:15:58,333
Got a clean blood test,
but the Plaintiff had already determined

315
00:15:58,333 --> 00:16:01,667
that she had buyer's remorse
with regard to this deal.

316
00:16:01,667 --> 00:16:03,533
There was another agenda there.

317
00:16:03,533 --> 00:16:07,567
Because the horse looked beautiful
at five months old, a beautiful animal,

318
00:16:07,567 --> 00:16:10,100
and it was perfectly clear
within 60 hours.

319
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:12,700
And the Defendant seems to love it now
and very proud of it.

320
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:14,867
- So, it's in a good place anyway.
- Yeah.

321
00:16:14,867 --> 00:16:19,233
Case 2134, Wimberly versus Miera.
All parties, please step forward.

322
00:16:19,233 --> 00:16:24,166
<i>Tina Wimberly
is suing auto-body worker, Robert Miera,</i>

323
00:16:24,166 --> 00:16:28,967
<i>for a refund of a 1969 VW Bug paint job.</i>

324
00:16:28,967 --> 00:16:31,567
Ms. Wimberly, tell me about this car
that you have.

325
00:16:31,567 --> 00:16:33,667
So, I have a '69 Volkswagen Beetle.

326
00:16:33,667 --> 00:16:36,734
- I've had the car for about 20 years.
- Where did you buy it?

327
00:16:36,734 --> 00:16:38,233
In Salt Lake City, Utah.

328
00:16:38,233 --> 00:16:40,367
Is it a Bus or a Bug?
It's a Bug.

329
00:16:40,367 --> 00:16:44,000
My goodness, I remember
everyone had one of those cars.

330
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,000
The whole world had those little Bugs
when they came out.

331
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,066
Except me. Scared to death. Okay.

332
00:16:51,066 --> 00:16:54,400
Anyway, you've had it for a long time,
and you try to keep it restored.

333
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,033
- Do you have a photograph?
- I do.

334
00:16:56,033 --> 00:16:57,500
I'd like to take a look please.

335
00:17:00,467 --> 00:17:04,000
{\an8}You acknowledge it's unsatisfactory
because you said, "I'll fix it."

336
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,467
{\an8}No, I said I'd take care of it
in a good gesture

337
00:17:06,467 --> 00:17:08,300
{\an8}to try to make things work with her.

338
00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:10,767
{\an8}I did not deny her any kind of service

339
00:17:10,767 --> 00:17:13,934
{\an8}or say, "Go get lost,"
until she started cursing at me.

340
00:17:13,934 --> 00:17:16,266
No, no.
- She didn't tell you she was cursing.

341
00:17:16,266 --> 00:17:17,300
{\an8}You know?

342
00:17:28,133 --> 00:17:32,066
<i>Tina Wimberly claims
auto-body worker, Robert Miera,</i>

343
00:17:32,066 --> 00:17:37,100
<i>owes a refund on a 1969 VW Bug paint job.</i>

344
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:39,734
As you're getting that,
the case is simple.

345
00:17:39,734 --> 00:17:42,200
You want your money back
for a bad paint job

346
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,600
that you say
that Mr. Miera did on the car.

347
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,834
Okay.

348
00:17:47,867 --> 00:17:50,800
So, this is a picture of the car
before he painted it?

349
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:52,133
No, ma'am, that's after.

350
00:17:52,133 --> 00:17:54,533
Oh, that's after?
Yes.

351
00:17:54,533 --> 00:17:56,800
Oh, doesn't look bad.
- From afar.

352
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,233
Listen, when you're born in 1964,
everything looks better from afar.

353
00:18:00,233 --> 00:18:02,867
Okay.

354
00:18:02,867 --> 00:18:04,900
That's an interesting color.

355
00:18:05,467 --> 00:18:08,266
Do you have a photograph
of what the car looked like

356
00:18:08,266 --> 00:18:11,000
before you took it in to the Defendant?

357
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,633
No, ma'am.
Okay.

358
00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:16,533
But I have pictures of after.
The bubbling that it's doing.

359
00:18:16,533 --> 00:18:17,734
I'll take a look at it.

360
00:18:28,266 --> 00:18:29,333
Okay.

361
00:18:29,333 --> 00:18:32,500
Have you shown these pictures
of the bubbling to Mr. Miera?

362
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:33,467
I have, Your Honor.

363
00:18:33,467 --> 00:18:35,633
And you've seen them, sir?
- Yes, ma'am.

364
00:18:35,633 --> 00:18:38,200
Okay, so this is the story.
You brought your car

365
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,033
in to Mr. Miera to paint it.
He gave you a price. The price was?

366
00:18:43,033 --> 00:18:46,800
Originally, it was $3,500.
What did you ultimately pay him?

367
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,567
- No, it wasn't. Mm-mm.
- $6,500.

368
00:18:48,567 --> 00:18:51,934
Okay. So,
you paid him $6,500 to paint it.

369
00:18:51,934 --> 00:18:54,700
{\an8}- When had you brought him the car?
- In January.

370
00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:57,033
Of what year?
- 2021.

371
00:18:57,033 --> 00:19:00,066
When did you pick the car up from him?
May of '21.

372
00:19:00,066 --> 00:19:03,700
I was moving from
Albuquerque, New Mexico to Louisiana,

373
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,233
and as May got closer and closer,
I kept telling him.

374
00:19:07,233 --> 00:19:09,467
"I'm leaving. I'm leaving." You know... Okay.

375
00:19:09,467 --> 00:19:12,533
The car was there from January until May.

376
00:19:12,533 --> 00:19:15,133
Yes, ma'am.
You picked the car up in May.

377
00:19:15,133 --> 00:19:17,100
- Was it ready in May?
- Yes, ma'am.

378
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:19,934
When she picked it up?
- Yes, it was ready when she picked it up.

379
00:19:19,934 --> 00:19:23,734
- When had you painted it?
- Probably at the beginning of April.

380
00:19:23,734 --> 00:19:24,800
No, ma'am.

381
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,633
Is that when you started
sanding it down. I assume the...

382
00:19:27,633 --> 00:19:29,700
No, she actually sanded
the car down herself.

383
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:31,967
So, the car was completely sanded
when you got it?

384
00:19:31,967 --> 00:19:34,633
No, it wasn't completely sanded.
We had an agreement

385
00:19:34,633 --> 00:19:37,100
{\an8}that she was supposed to help me
repair the car.

386
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,900
{\an8}You know, that's why I gave her
a price that I did.

387
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:43,400
Because she wanted to help
and learn how the process went, so...

388
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,367
Okay. Could you look up for me...

389
00:19:45,367 --> 00:19:49,533
So I gave her...
- ...a 1969 VW Bug?

390
00:19:49,533 --> 00:19:52,467
So, I gave her a chance to learn...
Under classic cars.

391
00:19:52,467 --> 00:19:55,000
Okay, but you say it was ready
when she picked it up?

392
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,367
Yes
Okay.

393
00:19:56,367 --> 00:19:59,667
And she showed you the pictures
of the bubbling on the car?

394
00:19:59,667 --> 00:20:00,734
Yes.

395
00:20:00,734 --> 00:20:03,000
And she paid you $6,500?
- Yes.

396
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,533
Well, I would have trouble
with that bubbling myself.

397
00:20:05,533 --> 00:20:07,000
Of course. I understand.
- So?

398
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,233
I offered to fix the car.
And?

399
00:20:09,233 --> 00:20:10,834
She didn't want to bring it back.

400
00:20:10,834 --> 00:20:12,967
That's a far trip
for her to bring it back.

401
00:20:12,967 --> 00:20:15,867
Well, that's all I can do.
I can offer to fix it, you know?

402
00:20:15,867 --> 00:20:19,100
Well, by offering to fix it,
you acknowledge that,

403
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:21,900
I would say, as a layperson,
this is not what I would expect.

404
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,700
Well, I said I...
- This was not what I would expect.

405
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,266
If I paid $6,000 to paint a car.
Of course.

406
00:20:28,266 --> 00:20:34,033
And what steps... because this bubbling
seems to be in various spots of the car.

407
00:20:34,033 --> 00:20:36,300
Mm-hmm.
So, it's impossible...

408
00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:38,934
- I'm a layperson. I went to law school.
- Yeah.

409
00:20:38,934 --> 00:20:42,633
I didn't go to mechanic school
or painting school,

410
00:20:42,633 --> 00:20:44,567
but I've lived a long time,

411
00:20:44,567 --> 00:20:47,867
and when you have spots like this
on an anything,

412
00:20:47,867 --> 00:20:50,467
either a wall or a car,

413
00:20:50,467 --> 00:20:53,533
you can't just spot-fix it, right?

414
00:20:53,533 --> 00:20:56,200
- No, you can spot fix it.
- It's all over the car, Your Honor.

415
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,000
Just a second. Yeah.

416
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,633
Well, it's been my experience
that you can't spot-fix it

417
00:21:02,633 --> 00:21:05,834
because this is a bright color,
it was done, now,

418
00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:08,000
almost a year and a half ago,

419
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,200
and you're not gonna be able
to match colors

420
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,266
because car colors,
like bright ones, fade,

421
00:21:14,266 --> 00:21:18,433
{\an8}so if you just do it in spots,
it'll look like a leopard.

422
00:21:18,433 --> 00:21:20,600
{\an8}Well, not necessarily.
Not necessarily?

423
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,033
{\an8}There's ways to adjust the paint.
The color of the paint.

424
00:21:23,033 --> 00:21:24,100
You can tint the paint.

425
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:26,300
Mr. Miera, she is not bringing the car

426
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:30,233
{\an8}to New Mexico
when she now lives in Louisiana.

427
00:21:30,233 --> 00:21:32,533
Yes, I...
- Because that would cost her.

428
00:21:32,533 --> 00:21:36,567
I know. I transport cars of mine
when I move around.

429
00:21:36,567 --> 00:21:38,567
And that's very expensive.
Mm-hmm.

430
00:21:38,567 --> 00:21:42,033
Not quite as expensive
as the paint job, but close.

431
00:21:42,033 --> 00:21:46,200
Which would mean she would have to incur
a substantial expense

432
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,133
to get you back the car from a paint job

433
00:21:50,133 --> 00:21:52,333
that clearly was unsatisfactory.

434
00:21:52,333 --> 00:21:55,066
- Well.
- That you acknowledge is unsatisfactory.

435
00:21:55,066 --> 00:21:57,400
Because you said, "I'll fix it."
I didn't.

436
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,467
I said I'd take care of it

437
00:21:58,467 --> 00:22:01,233
in a good gesture
to try to make things work with her.

438
00:22:01,233 --> 00:22:03,867
I did not deny her any kind of service

439
00:22:03,867 --> 00:22:06,900
or say, "Go get lost,"
until she started cursing at me.

440
00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:10,033
No, no, no.
- She didn't tell you she was cursing.

441
00:22:10,033 --> 00:22:12,533
Well, Mr. Miera, if...

442
00:22:12,533 --> 00:22:16,266
What I say you would have to do
would be to start over.

443
00:22:16,266 --> 00:22:20,033
Sand down the car,
which she did herself, according to you.

444
00:22:20,033 --> 00:22:22,734
- 'Cause if she sanded the car...
- She got a discount for...

445
00:22:22,734 --> 00:22:24,700
She worked on her own car,
so she got a discount

446
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:27,567
for working on her own car,
so she had her hand in it as well.

447
00:22:27,567 --> 00:22:31,000
That's terrific.
You're gonna give her back her money.

448
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,100
$6,500. Judgment for the Plaintiff.
We're done.

449
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:36,867
This court is adjourned.

450
00:22:37,567 --> 00:22:40,033
{\an8}I think when she transported the car,

451
00:22:40,033 --> 00:22:42,233
{\an8}the moisture and the climate
that she took it to

452
00:22:42,233 --> 00:22:43,700
{\an8}may have played a factor in...

453
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:46,433
{\an8}I totally disagree with what he said

454
00:22:46,433 --> 00:22:51,133
{\an8}because I took it from his house,
put it in another van...

455
00:22:51,133 --> 00:22:53,300
{\an8}...in having the car bubble like that,

456
00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,500
{\an8}but, you know, I'm not sure.
A lot of things can happen.

457
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:58,567
{\an8}And the moisture,
with what he's claiming, there's no way.

458
00:22:58,567 --> 00:23:01,467
{\an8}I tried to rectify the situation,
and it didn't work out, so...

459
00:23:01,467 --> 00:23:02,967
{\an8}Time to get it looking good again.

460
00:23:04,834 --> 00:23:09,400
You never got back to me about
how much the 1969 Beetles were worth,

461
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,900
and I was surprised because,
reading the papers,

462
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,400
reading a $6,500 paint job,

463
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,300
I was surprised at that.
Like, that was very expensive to me.

464
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,233
But when I looked up
how much the cars are worth,

465
00:23:19,233 --> 00:23:25,166
they're worth anywhere between $12,000
and $35,000 for a nicely kept...

466
00:23:25,166 --> 00:23:27,133
- Maintained.
- ...maintained vintage car.

467
00:23:27,133 --> 00:23:29,667
Similar to the one
that I saw briefly in the photos.

468
00:23:29,667 --> 00:23:31,800
- I'm sorry for not getting back to you.
- It's okay.

469
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,000
- I got caught up.
- But I think you made the right call.

470
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,400
Because after the paint job,
we saw the damage or the bubbling,

471
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,266
and I know that you or I
wouldn't be satisfied with that paint job

472
00:23:41,266 --> 00:23:43,834
on an asset that was worth
that amount of money.

473
00:23:43,834 --> 00:23:46,900
- Of course. I'm sorry. Forgive me.
- I think the right thing happened.

474
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:48,967
- I'll try not to do it again.
- It's okay. I forgive you.

475
00:23:50,567 --> 00:23:54,166
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