Now you want to tell me why you stopped paying rent?
There was a flood in the house.
And I said, "Oh my God, there's water everywhere in the house."
What's going on?
Where did the leak come from?
We don't know. They never told us.
Absolutely not.
And three days later, we get an eviction notice on our door...
This is Judy justice.
Shawna Hellerman and Monica Tway
are suing their former tenants,
Carl and Renee Antonucci, for property damage,
unpaid rent, and a bathtub.
Court come to order. All rise.
Have seat, please.
Hello, Judge. Case 2154, Hellerman, Tway versus Antonucci.
- Thank you. - Welcome.
Miss Antonucci, the Plaintiff Miss Hallerman, gave you a job.
- Yes. - When?
It's probably February of 2021.
Where had you worked prior to that?
I just worked, uh, for myself.
Worked for yourself doing...
- in the same... cleaning? - Cleaning.
Yes. And I worked for Rite Aid as assistant manager.
And your husband was in prison?
For a year. Uh, last year.
He was in prison on a two-to-10-year sentence.
Correct?
A rider program.
And it's, it's about a one-year program.
You were convicted in the state of Idaho for what, sir? And when?
That was, uh, 2012. Was a third DUI.
Uh-huh. And at that time, you were sentenced to two to 10 years.
All Correct. Yes. My apologies.
- There... - I just read it online.
So it's not a secret. It's out there.
So you were sentenced from two to 12 with a minimum of two years
and the rest of the sentence was supposed to be on probation.
Correct.
You violated the probation and you were sent back to prison.
Correct.
And that decision, violating your probation, you appealed.
Correct.
And the Appellate court, the highest court in the state of Idaho,
affirmed the lower court decision violating your parole.
Probation. Yes, correct. Your probation.
And that was just six months ago.
- No, it was... - February of 2022,
is when the opinion was published.
- Does that sound right? - Yes.
- Okay. - Response to that. Yes, correct.
Yes. So what was your release date from jail?
It was January 11.
- Just a second. Don't answer for him. - Yeah, January 11th. Yeah.
- January 11th of 2022. - Correct.
Now you had been working for the plaintiff
while he was incarcerated, Miss Antonucci, without incident.
That be a fair statement? You were happy with them?
I wasn't getting paid enough but yes.
Nobody's ever getting paid enough. Even I don't get paid enough.
Right.
Everybody thinks they're worth more than they getting paid.
You didn't quit. You didn't complain.
Now, at some point when your husband got out of jail,
there was a question about where you were going to live.
Were you living in the property in question
- before he got out of jail? No. - No.
So he was getting out of jail. Where were you living while he was in jail?
I was in Donnelly, Idaho in our motorhome.
Is there a reason that when he got out of jail
he couldn't go to the motorhome with you?
He did.
And then you tell me how you ended up in their property.
Shawna and Joe took us to dinner and...
They took you to dinner for what reason?
I don't know. Just take us dinner.
- Well, that was nice. - Yes, it was nice.
Very nice.
So, so far, you're working for people that you seem to like,
your husband is incarcerated. He gets out of jail.
I assume you've told them he was getting out of jail,
that that's why he was around now.
I assume you told him that he had been in prison.
- Yes. - Okay.
And they didn't hold that against him.
- They invited you out for dinner. - Yes.
Tell me how the conversation came up about a new place to live.
We were just talking about moving to Adams County.
- Why? - Just a better situation.
Just a second.
Was he required to be in a particular county for his probation?
No.
Now was he required to live in that county?
No, he's not unless he puts in a request to move.
And that was approved.
Well, is there any reason why you put in a request to move
after he was released from prison?
Yes. Because they offered, um, talk to Monica about the house
that was coming up for rent in Adams County.
Just a second, who knew about the house?
Did you know about the house that was coming up for rent?
- No. - Yeah,
I'm not getting a sense of forthcoming answers from you.
- You have somebody who cleans for you... - Mm-hmm.
...whose husband has been incarcerated,
who hasn't been living in any of your property.
Now he's coming out of jail.
And I want you to tell me how the discussion of a place to live came up.
- You're out to dinner? - Yes.
We invited him out to dinner. We were excited to meet him.
They had mentioned they had put in for a change of probation officers.
So he put in a request for a new probation officer?
Yes.
But for the fact that you told them, they would have no way of knowing
that you had to move from one place to another.
You had to have told them you put in a request to move.
- We're just looking for a place to live. - No, actually, actually...
You approach them and said, "Do you have a place for us"?
- No, I did not. - Well then, how did it come about?
There was sort of acrimony at the end of your moving out,
but I'm going to take one thing at a time.
They say that when you moved out you took a claw bathtub.
Did you take the bathtub? The answer was either yes or no.
Shawna Hellerman and Monica Tway are accusing
their former tenants, Carl and Renee Antonucci,
of not paying rent and stealing a tub.
We were friends.
- And they invited us for dinner. - Who was friends?
- Just a second... - Shawna and I were friends.
Yes.
- This is somebody who's a friend of yours. - Yes, I didn't...
I clean her house, uh, very randomly, but I was a subcontractor.
I was not an employee.
In fact, I called myself an employee of her's once,
and she said, "You're not an employee.
You're my friend or you're a subcontractor."
So we were at dinner, and we're saying that
we were wanting to look for a place to live.
And Joe said, "Oh, well, there's place in Adams County that Monica just bought.
I'll talk to her about you guys moving in there."
That's how we came to know about that place.
Great.
We were fine with living in our motorhome,
but it would be nice to have more room, so we're excited about that.
That's how we found out about it.
You found out about it because you needed a place to live,
- that you were moving. - We didn't, well...
That's according to your husband.
As a general contractor trying to find housing,
one of my ideas was, well, let's rent a house, let's rent a place.
I need space cause I've trailers, I have a flatbed, I've cargo trailer.
I've the two vehicles and the Harley. I need a garage, I need a shop.
I need to, you know, expand.
That's the sole reason for finding a different place.
And also trying to save money to buy a home
and recover and do all these things, you know,
- build my business, so forth. And... - Ultimately, you moved out.
There was sort of acrimony at the end of you're moving out,
but I'm going to take one thing at a time.
They say that when you moved out, you took a club bathtub.
I know what those are, they are sort of, a decorative old piece.
I had them, say-- sometimes use them now when they renovate houses
and put modern stuff around this claw bathtub.
Did you take the bathtub?
The answer is either yes or no.
- Yes. - Of course.
You say you took it in the answer.
Did you have permission to take it?
- Yes. - Yes.
Who gave you permission?
- Monica. - Monica,
did you give them permission to take it?
Absolutely, not. I did not give them permission to take it.
So now I want one of you to tell me when the conversation took place,
where it took place, and who was present.
One of you is gonna talk to me.
When we're about to move in and doing the walkthrough of the residence.
No, just a second, not moving out?
- You were going to move in. - Right.
And you moved into the residence in February of 2021.
- What month? - No, we moved in in April.
April of 2022? And you moved out when?
August 21st... of 2022, of course.
Okay, so what you're saying Antonucci is that in April--
now you gonna tell me your story--
in April you were walking through the premises with the owner.
I was gonna do some work on the place too before we moved in
and when we moved in at some of the trade or I would bill them at a discounted rate
and, uh, there was supposed to be a fireplace or wood stove.
Really the main reason I moved into this place
was because of wood stove. Electricity...
Listen to me, I don't care.
Bathtub. I don't care about a fireplace. I care about a bathtub.
Yeah. Discussion comes up about the bathtub.
She says she's not going to plumb it in, and she says, "If you guys want the tub,
you can keep it. You can, you can plumb it in if you want.
But, you know, I'm not gonna plumb it in and deal with it."
Okay, so she said to you
she had this bathtub there that she didn't want to plumb in.
- I assume that means "connect". - Correct.
- Because the... - Connect to water.
She didn't want to plumb it in.
You can either use it if you want to plumb it in or not.
- That's what she said to you? - No.
No! Only him.
- Have. - No, I didn't hear,
I didn't hear the word "have". You wanna read back what he said?
Please?
He says, "Discussion comes up about the bathtub".
She says, "I'm not going to plumb this thing in".
She says, "if you guys want the tub, you can keep it"
"you can plumb it in if you want".
"But, you know, I'm not going to plumb it in and deal with it."
You want to use it, you can use it.
- Keep it. Keep it. Have it. - If you keep it...
Not keep it and take it away with you.
You're moving in to her house.
She said this bathtub isn't connected to water.
You can, if you want to, plumb it in.
Of course, according to you, she knew you were in the construction business.
And keep it or not, but I'm not plumbing it in.
And you view that, four months later,
as saying "I can take the bathtub."
- Yeah, there's more discussion about it. - Yeah, it was.
- Let me here the more discussion about it. - She didn't want the tub.
Just a second. That's a conclusion in your mind
that she didn't want the tub.
Based upon what you just said to me, if you're moving into a house,
you're moving into a place, that statement that she made
could not be construed in my mind as you can "have," "keep,"
"it now belongs to you," the bathtub. You can either plumb it in or not.
If you want to keep it, plumb it in.
And if you don't want to keep it, don't plumb it in.
Okay, where's the bathtub?
- In storage? - They get it back. Five days.
- She said she was gonna... - Five days.
- Thank you, Your Honor. - Five. I'll give you an order.
Is that all you have to contribute to this case?
Some other witnessing, but that...
- That... - Then as a witness, you can sit down.
You're getting your bathtub back in five days.
- Okay, thank you, Your Honor. - Good.
Now, let's talk about the next thing, which is damages to the duplex.
So they moved in in April. Did they pay rent in April?
- Yes, they did. - They paid rent in May?
- Yes, they did pay for May. - And June?
No, they have not completed their payment for June.
- How much was their rent? - Twelve hundred a month.
How much did they pay in June?
They still have $80 owing, $30 in rent and $50 late fee.
Okay. I'm not interest...
- What about July? - Nothing.
Was there any rent in July?
No. No payments. No.
- Did you live in the premises in July? - Yes.
You were evicted on 8/21. Up until the 21st of August,
- were you living in the premises? - Yes.
- Did you pay rent in August? - No.
Okay. Now you want to tell me why you stopped paying rent in July?
Yes, on July 10th, there was a flood in the house.
July 10th, there was a flood in the house from where?
- We believe it was a spigot. - We never...
No one ever told us
- where it came from. - No, no, no. But you're living there.
They're not living there.
- Right, you're living there. - Upstairs and...
I'm only going to listen to one person.
Not talking over each other.
- Is that you or your wife? - Me.
Fine. You're living there April, May, June. July, there's a leak.
I'm living in a house. I know where the leak came.
Leak comes from a refrigerator,
it comes from a window, it comes from a ceiling.
It comes from something. Where did the leak come from?
Yeah, I wasn't home for that. We came home to the flood.
I came home to the flood at like 8:40.
Was it coming from the apartment above you?
- No, it was not. - Where was it coming from?
I called Monica and I said, "Oh, my God, there's water everywhere in the house.
What's going on?" She didn't know what was going on.
So we were trying to figure out where to turn the water off.
I'm still trying to figure out if you live there in July,
why weren't you paying rent?
Shana Hellerman and Monica Tway claimed their former tenants,
Carl and Renee Antonucci, owe for unpaid rent and a bathtub.
Carl and Renee are countersuing for property damage
and loss of income.
Okay, was it coming from the apartment above you?
- No, it was not. - Where was it coming from?
Apparently, there was a broken, uh, plumbing pipe
from the front spigot leak underneath the house
and came up through the...
So there was a broken internal pipe as far as you know.
Now, your husband's in the construction business, he said.
So when the flood happened,
did you try to find the source of the flood?
- I wasn't home, Your Honor. - Where were you?
- I was at work. - Well, eventually did you come home?
Yeah, I came home that evening real quick.
Well, that evening. Did you try to find where the leak came from?
I can-- I had to get back to work. They were--
she was dealing with the cleanup. The water was turned off.
And they were sending a plumber or something.
- So they... - Monica said, she would take care of it...
So they turned off the water, which is perfectly reasonable
because the water is coming from an internal pipe that burst. Right?
And then what happened? I'm still trying to figure out...
They did not turn off the water until after. I got home, I walked in,
so I called Monica and I said, "Oh my God, there's water everywhere in the house.
What's going on?" She didn't know what was going on.
So we were trying to figure out where to turn the water off.
- So that's when the water... - Okay, I understand so far...
One hundred percent understand you.
Got it. You came home, you found water, trying to find where it comes from.
Finally, turned off the water.
I'm still trying to figure out if you lived there in July,
why weren't you paying rent?
We were behind on rent because I was working
and he was trying to get his job situated down in, uh, Boise
or wherever he could get contracts with his injuries.
So, what you're telling me is that you didn't pay rent in July
because you didn't have the money?
- No, we did not have the money. - Well, that's what I'm asking you.
So other than the fact that you didn't have money,
there was no reason why you didn't pay rent.
We were making payments whenever we could.
- And that was fine for Shawna. - You made no payments in July.
You made no payment in July? No.
- In June you did. In July, you did not. - In June we did. In July, we did not.
- Listen... - As long as I was still working for them,
that was fine when we really are making payments to them.
Just a second. You made no payments in July
and you made no payments in August. You had made payments in
- April, May... - I wasn't goingt to pay for August...
- ...and June. - ...when we had a flood.
- I'm just telling you. - Yes.
I'm asking you a question. Is the reason you didn't pay your rent
- because you didn't have any money? - Yes, Your Honor.
Okay, then you owe them the rent.
Twenty-four hundred dollars. You lived there...
- It was a... - Wait, wait a minute, Your Honor.
I'm not speaking to you. Listen, you're a tag along on this whole thing.
You understand that?
I think these people were very nice to you.
I probably... I'm not. I'm not...
Yeah, I probably wouldn't have been as nice.
- The house was flooded, - The house was flooded.
- That is why I couldn't pay the rent. - I've already...
- Just a sec, just a second. - It shut my business down.
It shut my business down.
That house was flooded.
My plans are ruined, my computer's...
There was two inches of water. 1800 square feet of flood.
- Yeah. - Monica said she's gonna come over...
Mr. Antonucci, you can't talk over me, sir.
- Apologies but... - Just listen, you can't talk over me.
I'm older than you are, and I've lived in many apartments.
And believe me, I have been the cause of a flood
and I've been the recipient of floods from people around me.
Usually, it's an accident.
- That usually is not on purpose. - Yeah.
Very few people turn on their bathtub
and say I'm gonna let this bathtub overflow
into my bottom neighbor's house.
It's usually as a result of a broken pipe which nobody can see.
Or an air conditioner plugs up and the pan overflows
and the, whatever they call it,
the little waterbug signal doesn't go blink, blink.
So you don't even know that it's going off and there's a flood.
That's not somebody's fault.
So now you have a flood that is nobody's fault--
not yours because you're the tenants. So clearly it wasn't your fault.
Not something that they anticipated and not something that they were derelict
in taking care of. So now, what did they do
once the initial mess was cleaned up? How did they fix it?
- Did they fix the pipe? - We don't know. They never told us.
I mean they said that a plumber came to the house.
He left a hole in the, uh, in the ceiling, which I have a picture of.
Just a second, you live there the whole month of July and into August.
Did you have water?
Just answer my question. You lived there the whole month of July
after this happened and the majority of August.
Did it flood again?
- No, because we... - Just-- not "because."
It didn't flood again.
And what did the Plaintiff do to remediate that?
Did they put in fans or blowers?
They, they put in one fan and then she finally brought five more over.
So I had six fans in an 1800-square-foot house
and one window that opened. We lived in the basement...
So they put in fans, you said, they put in one...
She bought them and I plugged them and I brought them-- put them on--
and I put them in the bedrooms, in the hallway,
- in the kitchen, living room. - Oh, listen,
I have a feeling that you're a victim in more ways than one.
That's what you're supposed to do.
- You are living there. - Right.
They sent it over and you plugged them into the wall.
That's what you're telling me.
- And there's also a... - Twenty-four hundred...
Twenty-four hundred dollars.
You owe them two month's rent and the bathtub.
Let's go for next. What damages to the duplex, Ms. Hellerman?
We had some drywall damages, lot of garbage debris,
- large dump run, couch... - Yeah, I'm not interested in that.
Twenty-four hundred dollars and the bathtub.
Now I'm gonna get to your counterclaim.
Money owed for loss of income, damage to a motorcycle,
wrongful eviction...
Well, you didn't pay your rent, so the wrongful eviction is out.
Defamation. What's the defamation?
So Monica sent me a text when I quit working for her,
and it said, "Thanks for dropping off the keys."
I said, "You're welcome".
She goes, "Really thank you for giving me one day notice.
No good deed-- dot, dot, dot-- goes unpunished."
And three days later, we get an eviction notice on our door...
- But we... - I want to know what the defamation is.
What's the defamation? Nothing.
Crossed out defamation. Damage to my motorcycle?
Yeah, they laid gravel down in the driveway without notification
and you can't ride a 900-pound Harley through gravel.
So his bike went down.
Twenty-four hundred dollars. Judgment for the Plaintiff. Counter claims dismissed.
We're done here, and she is absolutely right.
"No good deed goes unpunished".
This court is adjourned.
She definitely got to the bottom of their character.
That house was a deathtrap.
We received a text with pictures of small puddles throughout the home
on a concrete slab...
She didn't want to plumb the tub in
and she said we could have it if you want to use it.
Because if not, she's gonna get rid of it,
she's gonna throw it away, take it to the dump.
I didn't ever tell him that they can have the tub.
I told him I was not going to install it at that time
and that I had already arranged to have the tub removed. I was going to store it.
You know, I think what bothers me more than anything else about cases like that
is that those were two nice people.
- The Plaintiffs were two nice people. - Sure.
And they actually took a chance.
They had an employee who was there for a year.
Now she's got a husband who's recently released
from, um, whatever kind of prison he was in.
But they welcomed him, they took him to dinner.
They needed a new place to live, and then they leave the place a mess.
They give them no notice.
They just dropped the keys and we're leaving.
And don't pay rent for two months and took property
that he knew was valuable because they moved back to their motorhome
so they didn't need a claw bathtub, which are expensive...
They pay for that storage...
But they pay for the storage in order to keep it.
So the Plaintiff was right-- no good deed goes unpunished.
- True. - Too bad.
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