You sold your son a car, and he didn't pay you.
I don't wanna see him hurting,
but you still have to pay me for my car.
You could shake your head, no. That's true.
You've seem to have a very fine relationship with your son.
Odd to bring it to a lawsuit.
This is Judy Justice.
Holly Kelm claims her son
and his wife Jacoby and Kelly Kelm,
owe for the cost of a van and lost property.
All rise.
Have a seat please.
Hello, Judge. Case 2127. Kelm versus Kelm.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
Mrs. Kelm, this is your son? And your wife?
Yes.
What's your first name?
Jacoby. What do they call you?
Jake.
How old are you, Jake?
Thirty one.
How long have you been married?
Seven years.
Prior to getting married,
were you married to someone else?
Yes.
For how long?
Five years.
Did you ever live with your mother?
No.
When was the last time you lived with your mother?
I was 17, I believe.
OK. So you had a reasonable relationship with your mother?
Yes. Until when?
Until May of, well, I'd say September of this year.
September of 2022?
Correct.
This is about a car.
It's your claim that you sold your son a car and he didn't pay you?
His defense is that it was a gift.
There was never a discussion about payment.
When you turned over the car to your son, according to what I've read,
you signed over the documents that allowed him
to register the car in his own name, which he did.
So he registered the car in his own name.
Is the car still driving now?
No, it is not. Where is it?
Uh, it got scrapped.
When?
October 3rd, 2022,
which I have the receipt for that as well.
When did your mother turn the car over to you?
May 31st.
What kind of car was it?
Uh, 2006 Chrysler Town and Country.
What happened to it?
Transmission went out on it, and, uh, it had some electrical issues.
It kept draining the battery.
Had you spent anything to have those issues addressed?
Not on the transmission.
I did replace the battery three times.
- Did you buy a new car? - Yes.
How much? -$700.
What kind of car? - Uh, 2003 Nissan Altima.
Why don't you tell me the circumstances, Jake,
of the transfer of the car
from your mother to you?
Tell me the date that that happened.
I got the title on the 30th of--
Of May. May.
On the 31st I was able to transfer it.
Tell me about the conversation with your mother
when she signed over the title to you.
She says you were supposed to pay her some $800 for the car.
No, Your Honor.
I want you to tell me what the conversation was with your mother
when she gave you the title.
You came to her, you didn't have a car.
Right.
You didn't have a car, you needed a car.
- And? - She said,
"You know, the van's sitting over at the other property.
It's just been sitting there for the last year.
You can go over and if it starts you can use it." And it did.
She said, "However, you cannot take the van until
the title's transferred."
And at which point she gave me the title and the lien card for it.
I went to the DMV, I transferred it,
came back, got the van, and I was on my way.
About a month, month and a half later, she was saying that if you give me $500,
I'll put it in the safe for you
and then I'll just give it to you when you need it.
You have any communication with your mother about the car?
Not anymore.
I mean communication in writing.
Oh yes, I--I do.
But nothing about payments.
I mean, there was a few texts here and there saying,
"I want my money or I'll take the van back."
I'd like to see that.
OK.
I, yeah--I gotta, I may have one more in here.
There is this one as well.
Jake, on September 3rd, Jake, you said,
"Not sure what's going on with you,
but this is getting ridiculous. I'll pay you when I have the money."
Right.
That's what you said? - Yep.
I'm not saying I don't owe her anything. I'm just saying I--
I was gonna give her something just to show.
No, no, no.
So on September 3rd, you got the car at the end of May.
So June, July, and August, you had the car and you said,
"I'm not sure what's going on with you."
Maybe mom, you're having issues that I don't know about, but,
"This is getting ridiculous. I'll pay you when I have the money."
That's an acknowledgement that you owe your mother the money.
Correct. OK.
And how much did you agree to sell him the car for?
Car was $800. OK.
Tell me about discussing with him the cost of the car
and what you were going to sell it to him for.
We were at my friend's house and we were playing marbles
and having a few beers like we always do. We get together a lot.
And he didn't have a vehicle,
so we discussed he could use mine and at that time he said,
"Well, he'd rather buy it."
And then I said, "OK, I will sell the van."
Which I was talking to my daughter about she wanted to buy it also.
And I told them both it was $800.
And you could shake your head, no, that's true.
Shh!
But it was $800.
And he said, OK, could he get it right away?
And I said, "Well, first of all,
I can't let you drive it because you're not insured."
And then we talked about he was gonna buy it and he would take it.
I said, "You gotta transfer the title first."
So he did all that.
OK, well that's responsible of both of you.
Yeah. There's no way we could leave it go with no insurance.
So then they took the van, and I told him first I need to clean it out
'cause I have a bunch of stuff in there.
They said they would clean it out, but they needed a vehicle right away.
And I said, "OK." Um, I never--
When was the first time you asked him for money?
$800 is a substantial amount of money.
He would get a paycheck and he would go and go to the casino
or go to the racetrack or whatever.
And I said, "Well what about paying me some money?"
And later today...
You sound like a really bright young man.
I appreciate that, Your Honor.
You really should find something important to do.
I have changed. I have changed sectors since then, Your Honor.
Holly Kelm claims her son and his wife
Jacoby and Kelly Kelm,
owe for the cost of a van and lost property.
OK. When was the first time you asked him for money?
In the summer sometime.
I mean we--we'd get together at my friend's house
and it was probably--probably a month later, I asked him,
"Are you gonna pay something on the van?"
I couldn't even say an exact date because like I said, we got together,
we played cards and we would have a few beers with my friends over at her place.
And then we discussed the van a little bit.
Discussed the money.
Just for my own curiosity,
you've seemed to have up until this point,
a very fine relationship with your son and his wife
Is this something that interfered with that?
I mean, $800 is a substantial amount of money,
but odd to bring it to a lawsuit.
There is really nothing that interfered with our relationship
except for him not paying me some money.
And in between this time and you--you both know this--
Don't. Look at me. There's one text in here.
"Do you have any money I could borrow?"
And well, I didn't have any money and I think I probably had $20.
and I would give it to him because being a mom,
I don't wanna see him hurting.
But I told him, you still have to pay me for my car.
OK.
And he acknowledges that he would pay you for the car, "When I have it."
But he would get his-- He would get a paycheck
and he would go and go to the casino
or go to the racetrack or whatever.
And I said, "Well what about paying me some money?"
I said, "Can you at least give me $25 so I can pay for my medicine?"
"I don't have it." "OK."
OK. Judgement for the Plaintiff for the amount of $800.
We're finished.
This court is adjourned.
Well, I'm glad at least I'll get my money back for the-- my van.
There's a lot of things that my mom did say that we're very untrue.
I love him. I will always love him. He's my baby.
You just don't sue family over something so stupid.
You know, I'm really happy that I finally learned how to text.
Yeah. And how useful text messages can be.
Because I, you know, I was late to the game with all this electronic stuff.
Anyway, these text messages have become so vital to adjudicating cases
because younger people memorialize everything,
including what they have for breakfast and lunch
and what, how they're feeling and what they're doing,
in text messages.
But for the text message that he gave me,
which set up, "I owe you the money. I'll pay you when I have it."
I think people, especially younger generation,
think it's--it's a flippant, "Oh, I'm gonna send this text really quick
- or I'm gonna send--" - To somebody on the phone.
Exactly. Like it's-- like it's a conversation.
But they don't realize legal implications of sending a text from your phone number,
admitting a debt, even if that's not what you intended
at the time you sent the text,
now there's this altercation and you bring it to court.
Right. And it's memorialized in a writing.
Yeah. - Coming from your phone.
Gotta be careful with what you text. Yeah.
Case 2132, Eagle versus Ulrich.
All parties, please step forward.
Tobias Eagle is suing his former friend,
Joshua Ulrich, for cryptocurrency profits
and equipment.
Mr. Eagle, you and Mr. Ulrich were friends.
You were traveling together for business.
What kind of business were you in other than this cryptocurrency?
First off, we weren't friends initially.
We were, first, business partners
and we worked together underneath my mentor through his company.
Your Boss?
Yes. - OK.
And what kind of business?
It was, um, teaching in workforce development for,
I guess you could say, um, people who needed skills
so they can be prepared for engineering jobs.
OK. You worked at the same company?
Yes. OK.
And when did you decide to go into this business together?
Around January to February, 2021.
- This has to do with cryptocurrency? - Yes.
OK.
This cryptocurrency business that you went into together,
did you form a company or an LLC?
Yeah, I already had a company established.
I was doing it more as a recreation, but--
So the answer is you and the defendant when you wanted to go together
into this business did not form a separate company?
No.
So individually,
it is your claim that you spent some $20,000 on equipment
for this new company?
Yes.
And you were supposed to share whatever profits there were
in this new company and quite frankly,
I know nothing about cryptocurrency.
I am of the Charlie Monger School of Cryptocurrency.
I think it's all about the Emperor's new clothes.
And unless I can feel it, touch it, taste it, smell it,
or bite on it, it doesn't exist.
So I want you to know that's where I'm starting.
Yes. OK.
So you are going to explain to me
what the business was
that you were doing with him that involved buying $20,000
- worth of equipment... - Mm-hmm.
...which you now say is in his possession that you want back.
- Yes. - Cryptocurrency!
OK. He mentioned that he knew how to, um, mine cryptocurrency.
OK. - That's how we use it.
I understand that those are the words that you use.
Where is the mine?
May I explain cryptocurrency to you a little more too, Your Honor?
Oh, I'd love to hear you. OK. Sorry. Um...
Mining is just a term for generating profits from cryptocurrency.
There is no physical mine, as you may already be aware.
Um, it's not like mining gold.
Yes. It's not like anything. It's like the Emperors new clothes.
Yes, Ma'am.
But essentially cryptocurrency-- - That's why it collapsed.
Yes.
Cryptocurrency mining is just--
You know that it collapsed. - Oh, yes, it collapsed.
Everybody knows that it collapsed. Yes, Ma'am.
Charlie Monger predicted that a long time ago.
Yes, Ma'am.
- But essentially-- - You know that?
Yes I do. OK.
So what you were involved in is a shill game of Emperor's new clothes,
which would've involved all of your investors.
Who was it that created cryptocurrency, the Winklevoss...
I don't know who created Crypto.
...brothers? I don't know. I'm not sure.
In any event, somebody had a vivid imagination.
Yes, Ma'am. But all crypto is,
is we essentially use our computer resources,
specifically a piece called a graphics card
that is really good at solving equations.
We essentially solve equations for money.
That's really all mining is.
You solve equations for money.
Yes ma'am. What equations?
I don't know the specific equations.
Essentially the equations are so complex
that when you solve them, you're rewarded for your time
and the effort that your computer put into it.
And that's where the revenue or mining comes from.
We essentially validate transactions the same way
you might wanna make sure that a transaction on
your bank statement is legitimate.
And so we were paid for validating these transactions.
You sound like a really bright young man.
I appreciate that, Your Honor.
You really should find something important to do.
I have changed.
I have changed sectors since then, Your Honor.
You have equipment that he paid for?
No, Your Honor, I would actually like to--
Just a second. I'm just asking a question. I thought maybe we could resolve this.
Show me what equipment you purchased, sir.
The receipts for it and tell me where it is.
And so we're not here specifically for
the GPUs that he claimed.
The what? GPUs. Graphics.
Uh, graphic cards. Graphic cards. Just a second.
Don't say anything to me, sir.
You have a counterclaim for equipment.
I have it for equipment and cryptocurrency assets.
I'm not bothering with that.
OK, no worries, Your Honor.
Yeah, no worries.
Tobias Eagle claims his former friend, Joshua Ulrich,
owes for cryptocurrency profits and equipment.
"I contributed $20,000 in equipment..."
Yes.
...and by the first quarter of 2021,
I am suing the defendant, Joshua Ulrich, for cryptocurrency profits
and return or value of equipment."
Yes.
I'm not concerned about cryptocurrency profits.
'Cause I think cryptocurrency is a whole lot of "Who Shot John?"
Mm-hmm.
And the only ones that probably got skunked
were any investors that you put into cryptocurrency.
Well, it still has value, so...
Well, you know something,
tell that to all the people who lost billions
in the last two weeks.
Would you mind just showing me the equipment that you purchased
- and receipts for it? - Yes.
I didn't ask you for anything.
Yes, Your Honor.
Equipment that you purchased.
Okey dokey.
And so for this equipment, it was purchased through a auctioning site
and so they only have a year delay and then, um,
that was the only information I was able to receive from them.
That's not helpful to me, sir.
That's not helpful to me at all. I can't-- what am I supposed to do with this?
That's just showing that I have proof that I purchased the equipment.
Doesn't show me how much.
It wasn't how much I bought it for,
it was cause I plan on rebuying the equipment
and so that's just proof that I bought the equipment and that he has it.
That a workstation, a Hewlett Packer server?
Yes. And I have a price break.
One small pallet of miscellaneous battery backups.
Yes. And there were specifically 12 of those.
And two Dell towers? Yes.
Everything here are things that you want back from him?
Yes.
You have nothing in your house of these things?
Of those things? No. Those are in his barn right now.
- OK. Do you have these things? - No, Your Honor.
Did you ever have this in your possession?
Yes. At one point I did have it in my possession.
When?
I had it in my possession when we were at a shared facility
that was in Rancho Cordova.
Now you're not in a shared facility anymore?
Yes, Ma'am. Since we were in a shared facility,
I have never had the equipment in my possession.
Furthermore, the equipment that he's talking about
has nothing to do with this case. This case is primarily around the assets.
You have no idea how simple I'm gonna make this, sir.
- Yes, Ma'am. - He has receipts for certain equipment.
I have receipts for more equipment and I have a very--
Just a second. You have a counterclaim for equipment?
I have it for equipment and cryptocurrency assets.
I'm not bothering with that.
OK, no worries, Your Honor.
Yeah, no worries.
- No assets. - No problem, Your Honor.
There are no cryptocurrency assets.
Where is the equipment that you claim
he has that belongs to you?
It's at-- Well, it was originally at his house
when we moved out of the facility, I relocated all of it to his house.
I have an inventory ran on the last day I was at his house
marked with the location, the equipment, and a lot of details.
I would love to show it to, Your Honor, if that's acceptable.
Just a second. Do you have?
On that list? No.
Do you have any equipment at your house?
Yes.
What equipment do you have at your house?
The graphics cards that he's talking about.
So you have the graphics cards?
Yes.
That belong to him?
No, they belong to me mostly.
- So I bought-- - What do you mean
that they belong to you mostly?
I bought most of the graphics cards.
He put in some money for
some equipment expenses
and for my estimates, which I wish I could have asked him,
was around $3,000 that he, um,
put in and I put around $15,000.
How do you expect a court to dissect
this business mess that you've created?
I'm not here for the, um, the GPUs or graphics cards.
That's why I completely left them out cause I--
No, but he's-- he has a counterclaim.
And that's fine he can present it.
I understand that. - Sorry.
How do you expect somebody to pick apart this legal morass that you have
except to say that all of the stuff should be sold.
Understood.
I don't have any value of what you claim you spent for this,
- because there are no amounts on it. - Yeah.
Well that's a problem.
I do have documentation, Your Honor, of all of it.
And it's labeled who purchased it and the amounts.
In addition, the second page here has the totals that he was talking about.
And the documentation pages are below that.
OK. Now...
Great.
There isn't a lot of very expensive stuff that you paid for, Mr. Ulrich.
There's not too much, no, Your Honor. No.
There isn't too much expensive stuff here. Right?
I agree. Yes, Ma'am.
You know we have something for $24, something for $15.
You paid for the little stuff. He paid for the big stuff.
Two things, Your Honor, that I would like to mention.
First of all, he did not purchase $20,000 worth of assets.
This is a highly inflated number. I can actually prove it.
Just a second. Yeah, no worries.
Just a second. I'm not awarding him any money.
Each of you will take back the things that you bought.
You didn't have a formed company together.
It's not a company asset. It belongs to each of you.
- You're not in business anymore. - Yes.
So all I have to know is what do you have at your house
and what do you have at yours?
He has everything, including all the physical assets.
That's a lie.
The only thing that I have at my house, Your Honor,
is, or it's actually on my computer, technically stored in a digital wallet.
A digital wallet is the same thing as a regular wallet.
This is just how we store cryptocurrency.
But I don't want to care about that. I don't care about that.
All I'm talking about is equipment.
Oh. I have no equipment at my house, Your Honor.
What equipment does he have in his house?
He has everything that's listed on that document that I gave you.
And I actually do have proof that he has it because--
I'd like to see it.
So these are text messages from my roommate to his mother.
From who? - From my roommate.
He was supposed to be here as a witness.
If he's not here, you can't show me texts from him.
He wasn't able to make it.
Well, I--you can't prove something to me via hearsay
from a witness who's not here.
It's not hearsay, it's just text messages that he gave--
That's hearsay by a person not here.
You know, I actually don't think that you're ready to have this case tried.
I believe-- I can't help you.
You say you don't have anything in your house.
You can't tell me how much the item cost.
If he said he doesn't have anything in his house,
should I rule that he has to give it back to you?
And he said, I don't have it. I can fix a dollar amount,
but I can't do that unless you have what you paid for.
I have documentation here that at the value at which I have had to pay
to buy it back because since it was through a auctioning site,
I don't remember. I had several auctions.
I bought most of that equipment from.
You can show me a bank statement where you paid money to an auction house.
I just wanna see an amount that you paid to the auction house.
I don't have that on me apparently. OK.
- Well, Your Honor-- - The case is dismissed without prejudice.
Go back to the courts where you originally came from
and see if they can help you any more than I'm willing to.
Can't help you until you get your documentation together, sir.
You're the Plaintiff in this case.
I have-- I cannot award--
You don't have anything if you don't have what you paid for the equipment.
But-- He said he doesn't
- have the equipment. - And he's lying.
It may be. And the proof that you have is inadmissible here
because your friend who authored those texts is not here.
And the case is dismissed without prejudice.
Go back to the court where you started it.
Thank you.
This court is adjourned.
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