1
00:00:00,567 --> 00:00:02,567
You sold your son a car,
and he didn't pay you.
2
00:00:02,667 --> 00:00:04,166
I don't wanna see him hurting,
3
00:00:04,166 --> 00:00:06,867
but you still have to pay me for my car.
4
00:00:07,967 --> 00:00:09,967
You could shake your head, no.
That's true.
5
00:00:09,967 --> 00:00:14,066
You've seem to have a very fine
relationship with your son.
6
00:00:14,633 --> 00:00:16,467
Odd to bring it to a lawsuit.
7
00:00:16,467 --> 00:00:18,533
This is Judy Justice.
8
00:00:34,967 --> 00:00:37,300
{\an8}Holly Kelm claims her son
9
00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:40,467
{\an8}and his wife Jacoby and Kelly Kelm,
10
00:00:40,867 --> 00:00:43,834
owe for the cost of a van
and lost property.
11
00:00:43,834 --> 00:00:44,967
All rise.
12
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:47,967
Have a seat please.
13
00:00:50,166 --> 00:00:53,333
{\an8}Hello, Judge. Case 2127. Kelm versus Kelm.
14
00:00:53,333 --> 00:00:54,867
{\an8}- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
15
00:00:56,033 --> 00:00:59,400
Mrs. Kelm,
this is your son? And your wife?
16
00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:00,734
Yes.
17
00:01:00,734 --> 00:01:01,967
What's your first name?
18
00:01:02,066 --> 00:01:03,934
Jacoby.
What do they call you?
19
00:01:04,033 --> 00:01:05,066
Jake.
20
00:01:05,467 --> 00:01:06,467
How old are you, Jake?
21
00:01:06,567 --> 00:01:07,467
{\an8}Thirty one.
22
00:01:07,567 --> 00:01:08,867
How long have you been married?
23
00:01:08,867 --> 00:01:09,967
{\an8}Seven years.
24
00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:12,200
Prior to getting married,
25
00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:13,934
were you married to someone else?
26
00:01:14,033 --> 00:01:14,934
Yes.
27
00:01:15,033 --> 00:01:16,266
For how long?
28
00:01:16,367 --> 00:01:17,367
Five years.
29
00:01:17,367 --> 00:01:19,233
Did you ever live with your mother?
30
00:01:19,233 --> 00:01:20,233
No.
31
00:01:20,233 --> 00:01:21,934
When was the last time
you lived with your mother?
32
00:01:22,033 --> 00:01:23,934
I was 17, I believe.
33
00:01:24,033 --> 00:01:26,934
OK. So you had a reasonable
relationship with your mother?
34
00:01:27,033 --> 00:01:28,567
Yes.
Until when?
35
00:01:28,567 --> 00:01:31,233
Until May of, well,
I'd say September of this year.
36
00:01:31,233 --> 00:01:33,300
September of 2022?
37
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:34,533
Correct.
38
00:01:34,533 --> 00:01:35,867
This is about a car.
39
00:01:35,867 --> 00:01:38,567
It's your claim that you sold your son
a car and he didn't pay you?
40
00:01:38,567 --> 00:01:41,033
His defense is that it was a gift.
41
00:01:41,033 --> 00:01:43,033
There was never
a discussion about payment.
42
00:01:43,033 --> 00:01:46,934
When you turned over the car to your son,
according to what I've read,
43
00:01:47,033 --> 00:01:49,867
{\an8}you signed over the documents
that allowed him
44
00:01:49,867 --> 00:01:52,200
{\an8}to register the car in his own name,
which he did.
45
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,066
So he registered the car in his own name.
46
00:01:54,066 --> 00:01:55,967
Is the car still driving now?
47
00:01:56,066 --> 00:01:57,600
No, it is not.
Where is it?
48
00:01:57,700 --> 00:01:59,467
Uh, it got scrapped.
49
00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:00,967
When?
50
00:02:00,967 --> 00:02:03,000
October 3rd, 2022,
51
00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:04,367
which I have the receipt for that as well.
52
00:02:04,467 --> 00:02:07,333
When did your mother
turn the car over to you?
53
00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:08,800
May 31st.
54
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,200
What kind of car was it?
55
00:02:10,300 --> 00:02:12,133
Uh, 2006 Chrysler Town and Country.
56
00:02:12,133 --> 00:02:13,600
What happened to it?
57
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,266
{\an8}Transmission went out on it, and,
uh, it had some electrical issues.
58
00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:18,934
It kept draining the battery.
59
00:02:18,934 --> 00:02:21,300
Had you spent anything
to have those issues addressed?
60
00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:23,133
Not on the transmission.
61
00:02:23,133 --> 00:02:25,467
I did replace the battery three times.
62
00:02:25,467 --> 00:02:26,800
- Did you buy a new car?
- Yes.
63
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:28,333
How much?
-$700.
64
00:02:28,433 --> 00:02:32,633
What kind of car?
- Uh, 2003 Nissan Altima.
65
00:02:32,633 --> 00:02:35,467
Why don't you tell me
the circumstances, Jake,
66
00:02:35,467 --> 00:02:38,033
of the transfer of the car
67
00:02:38,133 --> 00:02:39,834
from your mother to you?
68
00:02:39,934 --> 00:02:41,767
Tell me the date that that happened.
69
00:02:41,767 --> 00:02:45,000
I got the title on the 30th of--
70
00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:47,000
Of May. May.
71
00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:49,100
On the 31st I was able to transfer it.
72
00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:50,834
Tell me about the
conversation with your mother
73
00:02:50,934 --> 00:02:52,800
when she signed over the title to you.
74
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,834
She says you were supposed to pay her
some $800 for the car.
75
00:02:56,934 --> 00:02:58,200
No, Your Honor.
76
00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:02,266
I want you to tell me what
the conversation was with your mother
77
00:03:02,367 --> 00:03:03,667
when she gave you the title.
78
00:03:03,667 --> 00:03:05,533
You came to her, you didn't have a car.
79
00:03:05,533 --> 00:03:06,533
Right.
80
00:03:06,533 --> 00:03:08,200
You didn't have a car, you needed a car.
81
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,600
- And?
- She said,
82
00:03:09,700 --> 00:03:11,600
"You know, the van's sitting
over at the other property.
83
00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:13,867
It's just been sitting
there for the last year.
84
00:03:13,867 --> 00:03:17,600
You can go over and if it starts
you can use it." And it did.
85
00:03:17,700 --> 00:03:20,533
She said, "However,
you cannot take the van until
86
00:03:20,533 --> 00:03:22,400
the title's transferred."
87
00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:25,367
And at which point she gave me the title
and the lien card for it.
88
00:03:25,367 --> 00:03:27,367
I went to the DMV, I transferred it,
89
00:03:27,367 --> 00:03:29,567
came back, got the van,
and I was on my way.
90
00:03:29,734 --> 00:03:34,100
About a month, month and a half later,
she was saying that if you give me $500,
91
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,233
I'll put it in the safe for you
92
00:03:36,333 --> 00:03:37,867
and then I'll just give it
to you when you need it.
93
00:03:37,867 --> 00:03:40,367
You have any communication
with your mother about the car?
94
00:03:40,367 --> 00:03:41,600
Not anymore.
95
00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:43,533
I mean communication in writing.
96
00:03:43,533 --> 00:03:44,900
Oh yes, I--I do.
97
00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:46,600
But nothing about payments.
98
00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:49,100
I mean, there was a few texts
here and there saying,
99
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,200
"I want my money
or I'll take the van back."
100
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,533
I'd like to see that.
101
00:03:52,533 --> 00:03:53,834
OK.
102
00:03:55,767 --> 00:03:58,100
I, yeah--I gotta,
I may have one more in here.
103
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,633
There is this one as well.
104
00:04:07,667 --> 00:04:10,667
Jake, on September 3rd, Jake, you said,
105
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,600
"Not sure what's going on with you,
106
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,333
but this is getting ridiculous.
I'll pay you when I have the money."
107
00:04:17,433 --> 00:04:18,633
Right.
108
00:04:18,734 --> 00:04:20,600
That's what you said?
- Yep.
109
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,600
{\an8}I'm not saying I don't owe her anything.
I'm just saying I--
110
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,600
{\an8}I was gonna give her
something just to show.
111
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:25,767
No, no, no.
112
00:04:25,767 --> 00:04:28,967
So on September 3rd,
you got the car at the end of May.
113
00:04:29,066 --> 00:04:32,400
So June, July, and August,
you had the car and you said,
114
00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,133
"I'm not sure what's going on with you."
115
00:04:34,233 --> 00:04:36,500
Maybe mom, you're having issues
that I don't know about, but,
116
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,633
"This is getting ridiculous.
I'll pay you when I have the money."
117
00:04:39,734 --> 00:04:42,066
That's an acknowledgement
that you owe your mother the money.
118
00:04:42,066 --> 00:04:43,667
Correct.
OK.
119
00:04:43,767 --> 00:04:46,667
And how much did you agree
to sell him the car for?
120
00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,967
Car was $800.
OK.
121
00:04:49,066 --> 00:04:52,600
Tell me about discussing with him
the cost of the car
122
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,967
and what you were going
to sell it to him for.
123
00:04:55,066 --> 00:04:59,000
We were at my friend's house
and we were playing marbles
124
00:04:59,100 --> 00:05:02,867
and having a few beers like we always do.
We get together a lot.
125
00:05:02,967 --> 00:05:04,667
And he didn't have a vehicle,
126
00:05:04,667 --> 00:05:08,700
so we discussed he could use mine
and at that time he said,
127
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,700
"Well, he'd rather buy it."
128
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,667
And then I said,
"OK, I will sell the van."
129
00:05:13,667 --> 00:05:18,200
Which I was talking to my daughter about
she wanted to buy it also.
130
00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:21,066
And I told them both it was $800.
131
00:05:21,667 --> 00:05:23,667
And you could shake your head, no,
that's true.
132
00:05:23,667 --> 00:05:25,400
Shh!
133
00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:27,133
But it was $800.
134
00:05:27,133 --> 00:05:30,000
And he said,
OK, could he get it right away?
135
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,900
{\an8}And I said, "Well, first of all,
136
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,066
{\an8}I can't let you drive it
because you're not insured."
137
00:05:35,166 --> 00:05:39,667
And then we talked about
he was gonna buy it and he would take it.
138
00:05:39,667 --> 00:05:41,967
I said,
"You gotta transfer the title first."
139
00:05:41,967 --> 00:05:43,333
So he did all that.
140
00:05:43,333 --> 00:05:45,200
OK, well that's responsible
of both of you.
141
00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:48,233
Yeah. There's no way we could leave
it go with no insurance.
142
00:05:48,333 --> 00:05:51,567
So then they took the van, and I told
him first I need to clean it out
143
00:05:51,667 --> 00:05:53,567
'cause I have a bunch of stuff in there.
144
00:05:53,667 --> 00:05:56,667
They said they would clean it out,
but they needed a vehicle right away.
145
00:05:56,667 --> 00:05:58,200
And I said, "OK." Um, I never--
146
00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:00,467
When was the first time
you asked him for money?
147
00:06:03,767 --> 00:06:05,934
$800 is a substantial amount of money.
148
00:06:06,133 --> 00:06:10,767
He would get a paycheck
and he would go and go to the casino
149
00:06:10,867 --> 00:06:13,367
or go to the racetrack or whatever.
150
00:06:13,367 --> 00:06:16,266
And I said,
"Well what about paying me some money?"
151
00:06:16,367 --> 00:06:17,633
And later today...
152
00:06:17,734 --> 00:06:20,767
You sound like a really bright young man.
153
00:06:20,867 --> 00:06:22,066
I appreciate that, Your Honor.
154
00:06:22,066 --> 00:06:24,367
You really should find
something important to do.
155
00:06:24,367 --> 00:06:28,033
I have changed. I have changed
sectors since then, Your Honor.
156
00:06:39,867 --> 00:06:43,133
Holly Kelm claims
her son and his wife
157
00:06:43,233 --> 00:06:45,767
{\an8}Jacoby and Kelly Kelm,
158
00:06:45,867 --> 00:06:49,066
owe for the cost of a van
and lost property.
159
00:06:49,066 --> 00:06:51,900
OK. When was the first
time you asked him for money?
160
00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:53,967
In the summer sometime.
161
00:06:54,066 --> 00:06:56,700
I mean we--we'd get together
at my friend's house
162
00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:59,600
and it was probably--probably
a month later, I asked him,
163
00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:01,133
"Are you gonna pay something on the van?"
164
00:07:01,133 --> 00:07:05,033
{\an8}I couldn't even say an exact date
because like I said, we got together,
165
00:07:05,133 --> 00:07:09,100
{\an8}we played cards and we would have a few
beers with my friends over at her place.
166
00:07:09,100 --> 00:07:11,467
And then we discussed the van
a little bit.
167
00:07:11,467 --> 00:07:13,033
Discussed the money.
168
00:07:13,133 --> 00:07:15,133
Just for my own curiosity,
169
00:07:15,133 --> 00:07:18,200
you've seemed to have up until this point,
170
00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:22,633
a very fine relationship
with your son and his wife
171
00:07:23,100 --> 00:07:25,133
Is this something
that interfered with that?
172
00:07:25,133 --> 00:07:28,100
I mean, $800 is a substantial
amount of money,
173
00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:30,367
but odd to bring it to a lawsuit.
174
00:07:30,467 --> 00:07:34,133
There is really nothing
that interfered with our relationship
175
00:07:34,133 --> 00:07:36,500
except for him not paying me some money.
176
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,367
And in between this time
and you--you both know this--
177
00:07:39,467 --> 00:07:42,000
Don't. Look at me.
There's one text in here.
178
00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:44,200
{\an8}"Do you have any money I could borrow?"
179
00:07:44,934 --> 00:07:49,133
{\an8}And well, I didn't have any money
and I think I probably had $20.
180
00:07:49,133 --> 00:07:51,967
and I would give it to him
because being a mom,
181
00:07:51,967 --> 00:07:53,834
I don't wanna see him hurting.
182
00:07:53,934 --> 00:07:56,500
But I told him,
you still have to pay me for my car.
183
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:57,867
OK.
184
00:07:57,967 --> 00:08:00,900
{\an8}And he acknowledges that he would
pay you for the car, "When I have it."
185
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,200
{\an8}But he would get his--
He would get a paycheck
186
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,500
{\an8}and he would go and go to the casino
187
00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:09,200
or go to the racetrack or whatever.
188
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,500
And I said,
"Well what about paying me some money?"
189
00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:16,266
I said, "Can you at least give me $25
so I can pay for my medicine?"
190
00:08:16,867 --> 00:08:18,500
"I don't have it." "OK."
191
00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:21,700
OK. Judgement for the Plaintiff
for the amount of $800.
192
00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:22,867
We're finished.
193
00:08:22,867 --> 00:08:24,400
This court is adjourned.
194
00:08:24,567 --> 00:08:27,767
{\an8}Well, I'm glad at least I'll get
my money back for the-- my van.
195
00:08:28,266 --> 00:08:31,200
{\an8}There's a lot of things that my mom
did say that we're very untrue.
196
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,433
{\an8}I love him. I will always love him.
He's my baby.
197
00:08:33,533 --> 00:08:36,033
{\an8}You just don't sue family
over something so stupid.
198
00:08:37,033 --> 00:08:41,500
You know, I'm really happy
that I finally learned how to text.
199
00:08:41,500 --> 00:08:44,000
Yeah. And how useful text messages can be.
200
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,000
Because I, you know, I was late to
the game with all this electronic stuff.
201
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,266
Anyway, these text messages
have become so vital to adjudicating cases
202
00:08:53,367 --> 00:08:57,233
because younger people
memorialize everything,
203
00:08:57,333 --> 00:09:00,166
including what they have
for breakfast and lunch
204
00:09:00,266 --> 00:09:02,266
and what, how they're feeling
and what they're doing,
205
00:09:02,266 --> 00:09:03,967
in text messages.
206
00:09:04,066 --> 00:09:08,133
But for the text message that he gave me,
207
00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:12,567
which set up, "I owe you the money.
I'll pay you when I have it."
208
00:09:13,066 --> 00:09:15,433
I think people,
especially younger generation,
209
00:09:15,433 --> 00:09:18,266
think it's--it's a flippant,
"Oh, I'm gonna send this text really quick
210
00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:19,633
- or I'm gonna send--"
- To somebody on the phone.
211
00:09:19,734 --> 00:09:20,967
Exactly.
Like it's-- like it's a conversation.
212
00:09:21,066 --> 00:09:25,266
But they don't realize legal implications
of sending a text from your phone number,
213
00:09:25,266 --> 00:09:28,166
admitting a debt,
even if that's not what you intended
214
00:09:28,266 --> 00:09:29,767
at the time you sent the text,
215
00:09:29,767 --> 00:09:32,333
now there's this altercation
and you bring it to court.
216
00:09:32,467 --> 00:09:34,800
Right. And it's memorialized in a writing.
217
00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:36,500
Yeah.
- Coming from your phone.
218
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,500
Gotta be careful with what you text. Yeah.
219
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,633
Case 2132, Eagle versus Ulrich.
220
00:09:41,734 --> 00:09:43,333
All parties, please step forward.
221
00:09:43,433 --> 00:09:47,133
Tobias Eagle
is suing his former friend,
222
00:09:47,233 --> 00:09:50,266
{\an8}Joshua Ulrich, for cryptocurrency profits
223
00:09:50,266 --> 00:09:51,667
{\an8}and equipment.
224
00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:55,600
Mr. Eagle,
you and Mr. Ulrich were friends.
225
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,633
You were traveling together for business.
226
00:09:57,734 --> 00:10:00,333
What kind of business were you in
other than this cryptocurrency?
227
00:10:00,734 --> 00:10:02,900
First off, we weren't friends initially.
228
00:10:02,900 --> 00:10:04,967
We were, first, business partners
229
00:10:05,066 --> 00:10:08,333
and we worked together
underneath my mentor through his company.
230
00:10:08,433 --> 00:10:09,500
Your Boss?
231
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,667
Yes.
- OK.
232
00:10:10,767 --> 00:10:12,266
And what kind of business?
233
00:10:12,266 --> 00:10:14,834
It was, um, teaching in
workforce development for,
234
00:10:14,934 --> 00:10:18,266
{\an8}I guess you could say, um,
people who needed skills
235
00:10:18,266 --> 00:10:20,600
{\an8}so they can be prepared for
engineering jobs.
236
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,266
{\an8}OK. You worked at the same company?
237
00:10:23,266 --> 00:10:24,467
Yes.
OK.
238
00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:27,133
And when did you decide to go
into this business together?
239
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,100
Around January to February, 2021.
240
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:33,333
- This has to do with cryptocurrency?
- Yes.
241
00:10:33,734 --> 00:10:34,734
OK.
242
00:10:34,734 --> 00:10:37,934
This cryptocurrency business
that you went into together,
243
00:10:37,934 --> 00:10:40,266
did you form a company or an LLC?
244
00:10:40,266 --> 00:10:42,266
Yeah, I already had a company established.
245
00:10:42,266 --> 00:10:45,266
I was doing it more as a recreation, but--
246
00:10:45,266 --> 00:10:49,967
So the answer is you and the defendant
when you wanted to go together
247
00:10:50,066 --> 00:10:52,400
into this business
did not form a separate company?
248
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:53,600
No.
249
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,100
So individually,
250
00:10:55,100 --> 00:11:00,400
it is your claim that you spent
some $20,000 on equipment
251
00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:01,800
for this new company?
252
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:02,867
Yes.
253
00:11:02,967 --> 00:11:05,300
And you were supposed to share
whatever profits there were
254
00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:07,333
{\an8}in this new company and quite frankly,
255
00:11:07,333 --> 00:11:09,734
{\an8}I know nothing about cryptocurrency.
256
00:11:09,834 --> 00:11:13,333
I am of the Charlie Monger School
of Cryptocurrency.
257
00:11:13,333 --> 00:11:15,734
I think it's all about
the Emperor's new clothes.
258
00:11:15,834 --> 00:11:18,400
And unless I can feel it,
touch it, taste it, smell it,
259
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:20,367
or bite on it, it doesn't exist.
260
00:11:20,467 --> 00:11:22,467
So I want you to know
that's where I'm starting.
261
00:11:22,467 --> 00:11:23,533
Yes.
OK.
262
00:11:23,633 --> 00:11:26,633
So you are going to explain to me
263
00:11:26,633 --> 00:11:28,900
what the business was
264
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,734
that you were doing with him
that involved buying $20,000
265
00:11:33,834 --> 00:11:35,500
- worth of equipment...
- Mm-hmm.
266
00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:38,533
...which you now say is in
his possession that you want back.
267
00:11:38,633 --> 00:11:40,633
- Yes.
- Cryptocurrency!
268
00:11:40,633 --> 00:11:43,700
{\an8}OK. He mentioned that he knew how to,
um, mine cryptocurrency.
269
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,333
OK.
- That's how we use it.
270
00:11:45,333 --> 00:11:47,567
I understand that those are
the words that you use.
271
00:11:47,734 --> 00:11:49,333
Where is the mine?
272
00:11:49,333 --> 00:11:51,567
May I explain cryptocurrency
to you a little more too, Your Honor?
273
00:11:52,567 --> 00:11:55,533
{\an8}Oh, I'd love to hear you.
OK. Sorry. Um...
274
00:11:55,633 --> 00:11:59,066
{\an8}Mining is just a term for generating
profits from cryptocurrency.
275
00:11:59,166 --> 00:12:02,033
{\an8}There is no physical mine,
as you may already be aware.
276
00:12:02,033 --> 00:12:04,266
Um, it's not like mining gold.
277
00:12:04,367 --> 00:12:06,867
Yes. It's not like anything.
It's like the Emperors new clothes.
278
00:12:06,867 --> 00:12:08,100
Yes, Ma'am.
279
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,467
But essentially cryptocurrency--
- That's why it collapsed.
280
00:12:10,567 --> 00:12:11,633
Yes.
281
00:12:11,734 --> 00:12:12,967
Cryptocurrency mining is just--
282
00:12:13,066 --> 00:12:15,200
You know that it collapsed.
- Oh, yes, it collapsed.
283
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,266
Everybody knows that it collapsed.
Yes, Ma'am.
284
00:12:17,367 --> 00:12:19,400
Charlie Monger predicted that
a long time ago.
285
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,400
Yes, Ma'am.
286
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,967
- But essentially--
- You know that?
287
00:12:22,066 --> 00:12:23,200
Yes I do. OK.
288
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,767
So what you were involved in
is a shill game of Emperor's new clothes,
289
00:12:26,867 --> 00:12:30,533
which would've involved
all of your investors.
290
00:12:30,533 --> 00:12:33,800
Who was it that created cryptocurrency,
the Winklevoss...
291
00:12:33,900 --> 00:12:35,400
I don't know who created Crypto.
292
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,266
...brothers?
I don't know. I'm not sure.
293
00:12:37,367 --> 00:12:40,300
In any event, somebody had
a vivid imagination.
294
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,767
Yes, Ma'am. But all crypto is,
295
00:12:41,867 --> 00:12:44,300
is we essentially use our
computer resources,
296
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,400
specifically a piece called
a graphics card
297
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,367
that is really good at solving equations.
298
00:12:48,367 --> 00:12:50,400
We essentially solve equations for money.
299
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,800
That's really all mining is.
300
00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:55,200
You solve equations for money.
301
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,400
{\an8}Yes ma'am.
What equations?
302
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,033
{\an8}I don't know the specific equations.
303
00:12:59,033 --> 00:13:01,433
{\an8}Essentially the equations are so complex
304
00:13:01,433 --> 00:13:03,467
that when you solve them,
you're rewarded for your time
305
00:13:03,467 --> 00:13:05,633
and the effort that
your computer put into it.
306
00:13:05,633 --> 00:13:08,166
And that's where the revenue
or mining comes from.
307
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,967
We essentially validate
transactions the same way
308
00:13:10,967 --> 00:13:13,300
you might wanna make sure
that a transaction on
309
00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:14,600
your bank statement is legitimate.
310
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,166
And so we were paid for
validating these transactions.
311
00:13:17,266 --> 00:13:20,700
You sound like a really bright young man.
312
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,133
I appreciate that, Your Honor.
313
00:13:22,133 --> 00:13:24,333
You really should find
something important to do.
314
00:13:24,433 --> 00:13:26,000
I have changed.
315
00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:28,200
I have changed sectors since then,
Your Honor.
316
00:13:29,967 --> 00:13:31,967
You have equipment that he paid for?
317
00:13:31,967 --> 00:13:33,500
No, Your Honor,
I would actually like to--
318
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,800
Just a second. I'm just asking a question.
I thought maybe we could resolve this.
319
00:13:37,166 --> 00:13:39,467
Show me what equipment you purchased, sir.
320
00:13:39,467 --> 00:13:41,834
The receipts for it
and tell me where it is.
321
00:13:41,934 --> 00:13:44,467
And so we're not here
specifically for
322
00:13:44,467 --> 00:13:46,467
the GPUs that he claimed.
323
00:13:46,467 --> 00:13:48,300
The what?
GPUs. Graphics.
324
00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:50,533
Uh, graphic cards. Graphic cards.
Just a second.
325
00:13:50,767 --> 00:13:52,500
Don't say anything to me, sir.
326
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,266
You have a counterclaim for equipment.
327
00:13:57,266 --> 00:14:00,066
I have it for equipment
and cryptocurrency assets.
328
00:14:00,166 --> 00:14:01,533
I'm not bothering with that.
329
00:14:01,533 --> 00:14:02,867
OK, no worries, Your Honor.
330
00:14:02,867 --> 00:14:04,433
Yeah, no worries.
331
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:20,667
Tobias Eagle claims
his former friend, Joshua Ulrich,
332
00:14:21,066 --> 00:14:24,367
owes for cryptocurrency profits
and equipment.
333
00:14:24,834 --> 00:14:27,667
"I contributed $20,000 in equipment..."
334
00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:29,000
Yes.
335
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,767
...and by the first quarter of 2021,
336
00:14:30,867 --> 00:14:35,600
I am suing the defendant, Joshua Ulrich,
for cryptocurrency profits
337
00:14:36,233 --> 00:14:38,600
and return or value of equipment."
338
00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:40,200
Yes.
339
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,834
I'm not concerned about
cryptocurrency profits.
340
00:14:42,834 --> 00:14:46,367
'Cause I think cryptocurrency
is a whole lot of "Who Shot John?"
341
00:14:46,367 --> 00:14:47,500
Mm-hmm.
342
00:14:47,867 --> 00:14:50,500
And the only ones
that probably got skunked
343
00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:53,400
were any investors that
you put into cryptocurrency.
344
00:14:53,567 --> 00:14:55,767
{\an8}Well, it still has value, so...
345
00:14:55,867 --> 00:14:58,200
Well, you know something,
346
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,600
tell that to all
the people who lost billions
347
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,333
in the last two weeks.
348
00:15:02,433 --> 00:15:05,934
Would you mind just showing me
the equipment that you purchased
349
00:15:05,934 --> 00:15:07,734
- and receipts for it?
- Yes.
350
00:15:07,734 --> 00:15:08,934
I didn't ask you for anything.
351
00:15:08,934 --> 00:15:10,133
Yes, Your Honor.
352
00:15:10,233 --> 00:15:11,600
Equipment that you purchased.
353
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,100
Okey dokey.
354
00:15:14,133 --> 00:15:16,800
And so for this equipment,
it was purchased through a auctioning site
355
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:20,133
and so they only have
a year delay and then, um,
356
00:15:20,233 --> 00:15:22,667
that was the only information
I was able to receive from them.
357
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:24,600
That's not helpful to me, sir.
358
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,800
That's not helpful to me at all. I can't--
what am I supposed to do with this?
359
00:15:27,934 --> 00:15:30,667
That's just showing that I have proof
that I purchased the equipment.
360
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,800
Doesn't show me how much.
361
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:34,934
{\an8}It wasn't how much I bought it for,
362
00:15:34,934 --> 00:15:37,300
{\an8}it was cause I plan on rebuying
the equipment
363
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,967
and so that's just proof that I bought
the equipment and that he has it.
364
00:15:41,066 --> 00:15:44,800
That a workstation,
a Hewlett Packer server?
365
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:46,567
Yes. And I have a price break.
366
00:15:46,567 --> 00:15:50,600
One small pallet of
miscellaneous battery backups.
367
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,100
Yes. And there were
specifically 12 of those.
368
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:55,066
And two Dell towers?
Yes.
369
00:15:55,066 --> 00:15:58,100
Everything here are things
that you want back from him?
370
00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:59,266
Yes.
371
00:15:59,266 --> 00:16:01,333
You have nothing in
your house of these things?
372
00:16:01,333 --> 00:16:03,800
Of those things? No.
Those are in his barn right now.
373
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,867
- OK. Do you have these things?
- No, Your Honor.
374
00:16:06,967 --> 00:16:09,500
Did you ever have this
in your possession?
375
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:11,200
{\an8}Yes. At one point I did have it
in my possession.
376
00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:12,233
When?
377
00:16:12,333 --> 00:16:15,166
I had it in my possession when
we were at a shared facility
378
00:16:15,166 --> 00:16:16,834
that was in Rancho Cordova.
379
00:16:16,834 --> 00:16:18,900
Now you're not in
a shared facility anymore?
380
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,033
Yes, Ma'am.
Since we were in a shared facility,
381
00:16:21,133 --> 00:16:23,000
I have never had the equipment
in my possession.
382
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,033
Furthermore, the equipment
that he's talking about
383
00:16:25,133 --> 00:16:28,633
has nothing to do with this case.
This case is primarily around the assets.
384
00:16:28,633 --> 00:16:32,233
You have no idea how simple
I'm gonna make this, sir.
385
00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:35,367
- Yes, Ma'am.
- He has receipts for certain equipment.
386
00:16:35,467 --> 00:16:38,033
I have receipts for more equipment
and I have a very--
387
00:16:38,133 --> 00:16:40,333
Just a second.
You have a counterclaim for equipment?
388
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,233
I have it for equipment
and cryptocurrency assets.
389
00:16:43,333 --> 00:16:44,900
I'm not bothering with that.
390
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,066
OK, no worries, Your Honor.
391
00:16:46,166 --> 00:16:47,633
Yeah, no worries.
392
00:16:47,633 --> 00:16:49,667
- No assets.
- No problem, Your Honor.
393
00:16:49,667 --> 00:16:50,967
There are no cryptocurrency assets.
394
00:16:50,967 --> 00:16:54,233
Where is the equipment that you claim
395
00:16:54,333 --> 00:16:56,200
he has that belongs to you?
396
00:16:56,333 --> 00:16:58,633
It's at--
Well, it was originally at his house
397
00:16:58,633 --> 00:17:01,700
when we moved out of the facility,
I relocated all of it to his house.
398
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,400
I have an inventory ran on
the last day I was at his house
399
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,467
marked with the location, the equipment,
and a lot of details.
400
00:17:07,567 --> 00:17:09,633
I would love to show it to, Your Honor,
if that's acceptable.
401
00:17:09,734 --> 00:17:11,300
Just a second. Do you have?
402
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,800
On that list? No.
403
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,300
Do you have any equipment at your house?
404
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,400
Yes.
405
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:19,633
What equipment do you have at your house?
406
00:17:19,734 --> 00:17:21,266
The graphics cards
that he's talking about.
407
00:17:21,367 --> 00:17:23,467
So you have the graphics cards?
408
00:17:23,567 --> 00:17:24,633
Yes.
409
00:17:24,734 --> 00:17:26,033
That belong to him?
410
00:17:26,033 --> 00:17:27,300
No, they belong to me mostly.
411
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,433
- So I bought--
- What do you mean
412
00:17:28,533 --> 00:17:29,867
that they belong to you mostly?
413
00:17:29,867 --> 00:17:31,300
I bought most of the graphics cards.
414
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,800
He put in some money for
415
00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:35,967
some equipment expenses
416
00:17:36,066 --> 00:17:38,800
and for my estimates,
which I wish I could have asked him,
417
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,367
was around $3,000 that he, um,
418
00:17:41,367 --> 00:17:44,300
put in and I put around $15,000.
419
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,734
How do you expect a court to dissect
420
00:17:47,734 --> 00:17:49,700
this business mess that you've created?
421
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,367
I'm not here for the, um,
the GPUs or graphics cards.
422
00:17:52,367 --> 00:17:54,567
That's why I completely
left them out cause I--
423
00:17:54,567 --> 00:17:57,300
No, but he's-- he has a counterclaim.
424
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,233
And that's fine he can present it.
425
00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:00,533
I understand that.
- Sorry.
426
00:18:00,633 --> 00:18:05,667
How do you expect somebody to pick apart
this legal morass that you have
427
00:18:05,767 --> 00:18:09,000
except to say that
all of the stuff should be sold.
428
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:10,367
Understood.
429
00:18:10,467 --> 00:18:14,033
I don't have any value of
what you claim you spent for this,
430
00:18:14,133 --> 00:18:16,100
- because there are no amounts on it.
- Yeah.
431
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:17,467
Well that's a problem.
432
00:18:17,467 --> 00:18:20,100
I do have documentation,
Your Honor, of all of it.
433
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:22,433
And it's labeled who purchased it
and the amounts.
434
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,700
In addition, the second page here
has the totals that he was talking about.
435
00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:27,233
And the documentation pages
are below that.
436
00:18:27,233 --> 00:18:28,133
OK. Now...
437
00:18:29,834 --> 00:18:31,166
Great.
438
00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:37,967
There isn't a lot of very expensive stuff
that you paid for, Mr. Ulrich.
439
00:18:37,967 --> 00:18:39,367
There's not too much, no, Your Honor. No.
440
00:18:39,467 --> 00:18:41,867
There isn't too much
expensive stuff here. Right?
441
00:18:41,967 --> 00:18:43,133
I agree. Yes, Ma'am.
442
00:18:43,133 --> 00:18:47,166
You know we have something for $24,
something for $15.
443
00:18:47,266 --> 00:18:49,333
You paid for the little stuff.
He paid for the big stuff.
444
00:18:49,433 --> 00:18:50,967
Two things, Your Honor,
that I would like to mention.
445
00:18:50,967 --> 00:18:53,800
First of all, he did not
purchase $20,000 worth of assets.
446
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,100
This is a highly inflated number.
I can actually prove it.
447
00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:58,500
Just a second.
Yeah, no worries.
448
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,200
Just a second.
I'm not awarding him any money.
449
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,934
Each of you will take back
the things that you bought.
450
00:19:04,767 --> 00:19:06,567
You didn't have a formed company together.
451
00:19:06,667 --> 00:19:09,433
It's not a company asset.
It belongs to each of you.
452
00:19:09,533 --> 00:19:10,834
- You're not in business anymore.
- Yes.
453
00:19:10,834 --> 00:19:13,200
So all I have to know is
what do you have at your house
454
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,433
and what do you have at yours?
455
00:19:14,533 --> 00:19:17,433
He has everything,
including all the physical assets.
456
00:19:17,533 --> 00:19:18,433
That's a lie.
457
00:19:18,533 --> 00:19:20,233
The only thing that I have at my house,
Your Honor,
458
00:19:20,333 --> 00:19:23,200
is, or it's actually on my computer,
technically stored in a digital wallet.
459
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,433
A digital wallet is the same thing
as a regular wallet.
460
00:19:25,533 --> 00:19:26,867
This is just how we store cryptocurrency.
461
00:19:26,867 --> 00:19:29,367
But I don't want to care about that.
I don't care about that.
462
00:19:29,367 --> 00:19:31,533
All I'm talking about is equipment.
463
00:19:31,533 --> 00:19:33,734
Oh. I have no equipment
at my house, Your Honor.
464
00:19:33,834 --> 00:19:35,767
What equipment does he have in his house?
465
00:19:35,867 --> 00:19:38,233
{\an8}He has everything that's listed
on that document that I gave you.
466
00:19:38,333 --> 00:19:40,667
{\an8}And I actually do have proof
that he has it because--
467
00:19:40,667 --> 00:19:42,066
I'd like to see it.
468
00:19:42,166 --> 00:19:45,700
So these are text messages
from my roommate to his mother.
469
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:47,667
From who?
- From my roommate.
470
00:19:47,667 --> 00:19:49,667
He was supposed to be here as a witness.
471
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,667
If he's not here,
you can't show me texts from him.
472
00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:54,333
He wasn't able to make it.
473
00:19:54,333 --> 00:19:57,100
Well, I--you can't prove something
to me via hearsay
474
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,600
from a witness who's not here.
475
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,400
It's not hearsay,
it's just text messages that he gave--
476
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:03,533
That's hearsay by a person not here.
477
00:20:03,533 --> 00:20:07,533
You know, I actually don't think that
you're ready to have this case tried.
478
00:20:08,033 --> 00:20:09,500
I believe--
I can't help you.
479
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,600
You say you don't have
anything in your house.
480
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:14,367
You can't tell me how much the item cost.
481
00:20:14,367 --> 00:20:16,266
If he said he doesn't have
anything in his house,
482
00:20:16,367 --> 00:20:18,433
should I rule that
he has to give it back to you?
483
00:20:18,533 --> 00:20:20,700
And he said, I don't have it.
I can fix a dollar amount,
484
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,734
but I can't do that unless
you have what you paid for.
485
00:20:22,834 --> 00:20:27,433
I have documentation here that
at the value at which I have had to pay
486
00:20:27,533 --> 00:20:30,734
to buy it back because since
it was through a auctioning site,
487
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,433
I don't remember. I had several auctions.
488
00:20:33,533 --> 00:20:35,433
I bought most of that equipment from.
489
00:20:35,533 --> 00:20:39,000
You can show me a bank statement
where you paid money to an auction house.
490
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,567
I just wanna see an amount
that you paid to the auction house.
491
00:20:41,767 --> 00:20:43,734
I don't have that on me apparently. OK.
492
00:20:43,834 --> 00:20:45,834
- Well, Your Honor--
- The case is dismissed without prejudice.
493
00:20:45,834 --> 00:20:48,367
Go back to the courts
where you originally came from
494
00:20:48,367 --> 00:20:51,233
and see if they can help you
any more than I'm willing to.
495
00:20:51,767 --> 00:20:54,233
Can't help you until you get
your documentation together, sir.
496
00:20:54,333 --> 00:20:55,834
You're the Plaintiff in this case.
497
00:20:55,834 --> 00:20:57,400
I have--
I cannot award--
498
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,100
You don't have anything if you don't have
what you paid for the equipment.
499
00:21:00,633 --> 00:21:02,100
But--
He said he doesn't
500
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:03,600
- have the equipment.
- And he's lying.
501
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,667
It may be. And the proof
that you have is inadmissible here
502
00:21:06,767 --> 00:21:09,734
because your friend who authored
those texts is not here.
503
00:21:09,734 --> 00:21:11,767
And the case is dismissed
without prejudice.
504
00:21:11,767 --> 00:21:13,834
Go back to the court where you started it.
505
00:21:13,934 --> 00:21:15,100
Thank you.
506
00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:16,500
This court is adjourned.
507
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,266
Want justice?
508
00:21:19,266 --> 00:21:21,333
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