After your husband's death
he withdrew money from your husband's bank account.
This is the last person on earth that should have that money.
That's not your decision to make.
I could have a dozen people here with me to make this claim.
You have no right to make that judgment.
I'm gonna fight this fight on my own.
I'm sorry. I'll stop.
This is Judy Justice.
Kourtney Friend is suing her former friend,
Joseph T. Ivan Jr.,
for stealing money from her deceased husband's bank account.
Court come to order.
All rise.
Have a seat everyone, please.
Hello, Judge. Case 2190 Friend versus Ivan Jr.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
Mrs. Friend, your husband passed away recently?
- Yes. - When did he pass?
August 26th, 2022.
What did he pass away from?
He took his own life.
You have kids?
I have one. I have a daughter. She's seven months old.
She was born, um, June 14th, 2022.
I'm sorry.
Thank you.
It is your claim that Mr. Ivan,
after your husband's death,
withdrew money from your husband's bank account.
Was that a joint bank account or his own bank account?
It was under his, but we-- So it was his name?
Yes. So it was his bank account?
It was.
Did you also have a joint bank account?
Uh, we just shared that one.
Uh, I wasn't working and I'm not working.
Um, he is sole provider of our family.
So the bank account was in his name solely?
Yes. OK.
How do you know the Defendant?
We met in 2020.
Um, we worked together at Target.
And that's my husband and I, and also the Defendant.
So you worked there? - Yes.
Did you become social friends?
Yes.
And at some point,
Mr. Ivan says that your husband needed money,
that he was in some sort of difficulty with rent money.
OK.
That's what Mr. Ivan says.
In what month, Mr. Ivan,
do you claim that you loaned money
to Mr. Friend?
Uh, Mr. Wayland is his name.
Wayland. - Yeah, Michael.
Michael and I are best friends, uh,
from the day that we met by the way, just hit it off right away.
So this gentleman would come to me
- uh, and--and vice versa. - Just tell me. Just tell me.
The--the money we're talking about August 17th, 2022.
And was the conversation about the money in your house?
Yes. In your house?
- Yes. - I'd like you to tell me
- what that conversation was. - Absolutely.
Michael showed up at my door on August 17th.
He needed money and he needed away from the Plaintiff.
- Just a second. - Uh-uh.
Don't tell me what he needed.
Tell me what he said to you.
His rent is very far behind and he would like to borrow $1,500.
Did you ask him why?
- Of course. - And what did he say?
Rent? No.
Why his rent was so far behind.
Oh, uh, not exactly.
He stayed with me for the next two days so we had a lot of conversation about it.
OK. So when he came on August 17th,
he did not stay home with his wife
and the new baby.
He stayed with you for how many days?
For two-- That week.
You and your husband been having a difficult time?
We were the last, um,
couple weeks before his ending.
And he did in fact stay out.
Did you know where he was staying?
No, um, I did not. I--
OK, but you knew he was out. Yes.
I had asked him to leave.
OK.
Now, his rent in his house where his wife
and his baby were-- it was overdue?
Yes, Your Honor.
And he needed $1,500, according to you. So what did you do?
I gave him the $1,500.
Mrs. Friend, in June, July, August.
- Was your husband working? - Yes.
Same job? Uh...
He was working with Burlington, so yes.
Did your husband have any problems that you know of
with either drugs or gambling?
I didn't know at the time.
But do you know now?
Yes.
What kind of problems did he have?
Um, he, uh,
was strug--struggling with, um, use of cocaine.
OK. So that would account for his need for money
and also for problems.
OK.
I'm guessing he was a young man. Did he have any life insurance?
He did. Yes. He did. How much?
Um, it was, oh my goodness,
it was... seven.
No, I'm sorry, $200,000.
Did the company pay on his life insurance?
No, because he committed suicide.
Oh, it wasn't that, it was,
he had, um, lapsed his payment.
So, um, I think his last payment was,
I believe, in May,
and he did not pay it.
So they-- because of that, they did not.
It lapsed. Yeah.
It might not have been effective anyway
since he took his own life.
OK. So you lent him $1,500.
And how did you repay yourself and when?
Your Honor, I'd like to point out that she was very well aware of the fact
that he was using cocaine for the better part of the year.
Shh. Just a second. OK.
Mr. Ivan?
Not necessary. OK. OK.
I repeat myself because that was our agreement.
Michael was at my house a week later also.
He logged onto my phone because he no longer had any belongings.
He no longer had a physical wallet or a phone in his possession.
He lost them.
Ms. Friend had his wallet. But I can show you that later.
For now, he's asking me if he can put his memorized information
on my digital wallet which I can show you now if you'd like.
- Yes. - It's still on my phone to this day.
His information? - Correct.
- OK. - With the agreement--
Shh. Just a second.
I could understand you taking back the $1,500
because you say that was his agreement with you
as was sort of buttressed by the fact
that he put his banking information on the card.
But why would you transfer any other money other than
the $1,500 out of his account?
Kourtney Friend claims her former friend,
Joseph T. Ivan Jr.,
wrongfully took money from her deceased husband's bank account.
I want you to bring that up.
Yeah. And Sarah,
- you're going to take a look at that. - It's the top card, sir.
The one that says Chime.
That's my digital wallet. My personal digital wallet.
So it's the same as when you put something in your Apple wallet
and you can pay using--
I'm trying to think of the easiest way to describe this to you.
If you log in to check your bank balance,
you can save the card to your phone.
So it makes it easier to pay with your phone.
So it looks as if Mr. Friend logged in...
- Logged in. - ...to the Defendant's phone
with his credentials and information
- So that he-- - There was also latest transactions.
The very last transaction was from... 10/1/22.
- And how much was that for? -$80 at a market.
Then there's some gas stations. That's for October.
Mm-hmm. Prior to that?
There's a list of just latest transactions that--
That's all the tra-- Those are the total transactions.
Yeah. That you made?
Well-- - Just a second.
There's an $80 transaction according to Sarah in October.
Yes, Ma'am. So the way that-- Was that your transaction?
It was. OK.
I have-- Shh. Just--
I'm sure they'll match with what-- $236 worth of charges.
I charged $236 worth of cash.
- From my husband's passing till-- - Hold on. Hold, hold, hold, hold.
Well, I have $80 in October.
But in transfer to... Who is that?
That is the-- $1,400.
That is the deceased.
Who transferred that?
I transferred it. That is a GoFundMe account.
And we'll get to this, the check--
The check that came through after he passed away
hit my phone because he loaded his card onto my phone.
The agreement was that I pay myself back when he was still alive.
With the funds that are on that phone. Just a second.
The remaining I sent to a GoFundMe account.
Why did you do that?
Just a second.
I can almost understand, Mr. Ivan.
- Yeah. - Because what your position is,
and I actually believe that it's accurate
that your friend came to you... A 100%.
Shh.
That your friend came to you in need of money.
That he and his wife were having difficulty.
That he had an addiction problem.
That he probably spent the rent money on his addiction problem.
All of that sort of makes sense.
And even though resorting to self-help
after he passed, I would frown on.
I would say, this is a debt that's owed by his estate.
And I could understand you who had access to his account
taking back the $1,500
because you say that was his agreement with you,
as was sort of buttressed by the fact
that he put his banking information--
and it's his sole banking information-- on the card.
But why would you transfer any other money other than
the $1,500 out of his account?
Into his family's name, Your Honor, and I can show you why.
I have transcripts with everyone that knows us.
- I could have a dozen people here. - Shh.
I'm sorry. I could have a dozen people here with me to make this claim.
But this is a very sensitive situation for a lot of people involved.
So I'm gonna fight this fight on my own without them here.
Just a second.
They'll all tell you that this is the last person on earth
that should have that money. Just a second.
This is not about you making a judgment
or about 30 other people making--
That's what Michael-- Shh. Just a second.
Sir, unless you have a writing
from the deceased
that's authenticated in the same process
as would authenticate a will
you have no right to make that judgment as to whether or not
his wife and or child...
I assume he died without a will. Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct. OK.
So under the laws of practically every state
if you die intestate, which means you die without a will,
there's a certain order of people who inherit your money.
Your spouse, your children.
It goes sort of in order, is there's a pecking order.
You have no right to amend that.
You actually don't even have a right
to repay yourself after he's dead.
You have no right to do that.
But I can actually understand
your sense that...
unless you paid yourself, you weren't gonna get your money back.
I can understand that.
But whatever your intentions were, sir,
you have no right to do anything else
with the money in that bank account.
- May I? - Am I making myself clear?
I hope so. Is that clear?
Yes? Brought me right back
- to wills, trusts, and estates, so yeah. - Yeah. Right. Go ahead.
Your Honor, Michael and I had an agreement.
OK? So whether or not-- Shh. Just a second.
You and Michael had an agreement
that you made a loan to him in the amount of $1,500
and in order to secure your repayment,
- I've read your answer, sir. - Yeah.
He gave you his account number and according to you, he said,
"When I get paid you can take the money back
that you loaned me." That's $1,500.
May I continue?
I've only used $236.00.
That's all that I've used. $236.00.
And I can show you the math here on this spreadsheet.
But it start-- Let's start with $1,500,
$845 he paid back to me on August 24th a week later.
Oh OK. Hold, hold on a second.
-$1,500. - That's right.
And he paid you back what? -$845 on August 24th.
Good for him. - Right.
Did he pay you back by,
by-- Michael, Just listen to me.
Don't play.
Did he pay you back by coming to your house and giving you the money or--
- Digitally-- - Shh!
He paid you back digitally. - That's right.
May I see that please, Kevin?
Using my phone in his account-- Shh!
So now he owes you $655. That's Right.
OK.
Kevin, I'd like you to show this to the Plaintiff.
- Have you seen this? - No.
OK. I'd like you to show this to the Plaintiff.
So Mr. Ivan acknowledges
that your husband--
- Mrs. Friend, pay attention. - Yes.
That's your husband paid him back
more than half of what he had borrowed.
Now.
Then...
you took back, Mr. Ivan, from the account
how much money?
Two hundred and thirty six dollars.
No, that's not true.
Shh.
- We can go line by line. - Shh.
That's a debit, not a credit.
He sent the $1,400. Michael to the GoFundme.
Oh yo, shh. Just a second. You can't do that, sir.
I have a baby!
Listen to me.
You were there, you provided a shelter
- for Michael-- - To get away from her.
That's right.
I'm sorry. I'll stop.
Kourtney Friend has accused her former friend,
Joseph T. Ivan Jr., of stealing money
from her deceased husband's bank account.
Which of these charges?
There's an $80 charge.
A $60.
Are those your charges?
Yes. OK. Hold on.
One forty. Just a second.
- One forty five. - Yes.
A $77.35. - Yes. And that's it.
Those four.
What about a Cash app?
That's the digital transaction that you just had.
Oh, and $845. Got it.
I'm still owed $392. Shh!
OK. Now,
how much money do you allege,
and I'm gonna give this to you or give you--
you must have this-- how much money do you allege
that he took out of the account?
I'm, um, asking for $2,700.
I don't care what you're asking for.
That's irrelevant to me what you're asking for.
OK.
How much money do you allege he took out of the account?
I think he took way more than what he's saying.
Oh, well, I don't care what you think.
He-- well, it's proof right there. I don't. I don't.
Other than the $1,400,
which he says he transferred to the GoFundMe page,
did you receive for your daughter
any part of this $1,400 that came from a GoFundMe page?
I have not. No.
I-- OK.
- Can-- OK. - Just a second.
But the GoFundMe page
was subsequent
to your husband's death, is that right?
- Yes. - Who started the GoFundMe page?
It was my husband's.
So this money did not belong to your husband.
This money was not money from your husband.
This money was started by somebody else,
not the Defendant, and somehow
ended up in your husband's bank account.
Am I getting that right?
No. Well, what's this $1,400?
How did it end up--? I transferred it from--
That's Michael's bank account ledger. It's attached to my digital wallet.
I understand--
It's going to the GoFundMe.
A GoFundMe is a special account that's set up in a, in a tragic--
I--I know exactly what it is but what I'm not following is
- why would it not be in his...? - It is.
He's saying that that is a "To", not a "Receiving".
- That's a debit, not a credit. - He sent the $1,400...
...dollars to the Go--
Oh, yo. Shh. Just a second. Oh, you can't do that.
Sorry, sir. You can't do that.
So you took out money that didn't belong to you
because at best case scenario,
- you're still owed $400. -$392.
Yeah. OK. $400.
You were still owed $400
and you withdrew $1,400
of Michael's money
and sent it to the GoFundMe page.
Yeah. Because of the fact that the last person on earth
that Michael would want to have that money is this person right here.
That's not your judgment to make, sir.
That's fine. That's-- Just a sec.
That's--that's not. Listen to me.
I've tried to explain to you.
- I tried to explain to you... - OK.
...what the laws of intestacy are
in this country.
If you die without a will,
there are certain people who get your money.
Whether the deceased hates them,
wasn't talking to them,
it doesn't make any difference.
Unless he and his wife are separated
by a lawful separation order by the court,
she and his daughter are entitled to this money.
And it's not up to his best friend or his best friend's friends
or other people to say, he was angry with her,
she threw him out...
Whatever the reason that you're saying
Michael would want the last person to receive any money from this GoFundMe page
is the Plaintiff--
that's not your decision to make.
You took back some of your own money. He paid you back some.
You may get skunked for $400.
- I don't want it-- - Just a second.
You may get-- you may get skunked for $400,
but if you sent this money to a GoFundMe page and that was $1,400...
For the family's name, Your Honor.
You can't do that!
That's fine. I came-- You can't.
Michael would not want her to have it, so I gave it to his family.
OK. Well, you can't do that, sir.
I have a baby. Unless-- Shh.
I'm not faulting you emotionally, sir.
Yeah. Listen to me.
You were there.
You provided a shelter for Michael--
To get away from her.
That's right.
I'm sorry. I'll stop.
That's, that's a fact. It's just the truth.
Judgment for the Plaintiff in the amount of $1,400.
We have finished. This Court is adjourned.
It doesn't matter. The woman's a fraud. She's a fraud.
Um, that money should not be going to her.
She's the last person on earth that this gentleman wanted to have that money.
I'm happy.
I'm happy that she sided with me,
listened to me, and--
Well, that's all she cares about is money. That's what this is all about.
She knew that that was not right,
because it-- that's not. I mean,
what kind of person would...
Kourtney's out for money, always was in the relationship.
Take money from a...
a new mom as someone who's grieving.
It's just-- it's been such a mess, and I feel good about this.
Because I'm the only one who would do the right thing with it.
- And he knew that. - He was very defensive.
He was very defensive and very hateful.
I'm a great guy. He'd want me to fight the good fight.
All Good.
He shouldn't have took anything from me.
He's already--
I've already lost so much.
Happy it's over.
I've lost my best friend, my husband, the love of my life,
and the father of our new child.
Um, just, it's not OK.
He too-- he caught me in a very vulnerable-- vulnerable state.
That case for as tragic as it was, and I really felt for the Plaintiff,
brought me right back to wills, trusts, and estates
and the basic, you know, three rules,
"age of majority," "of sound mind," and "a writing."
And it's just really unfortunate that
the Plaintiff's husband didn't have one.
You know, if I were to venture a guess,
I would say that most people,
when they're under 40, don't have a will.
Yeah.
He was a new father.
You know, baby.
Makes it all that much more important.
Yeah it does.
But he was a new father with a cocaine addiction.
Tough to try and guess the mental state of someone going through that.
But I-- I also agree with you that you can't fault
the Defendant for his emotional... He knew how his friend felt,
and he was trying to carry out those wishes.
But there is the law and there are rules.
- Right. - And you can't take it upon yourself
- to redistribute your friend's money. - Money.
Or-- or the GoFundMe money.
- Yes. - Yeah.
All good intentions, but you gotta follow the rules.
Right.
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