1
00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:02,300
After your husband's death
2
00:00:02,300 --> 00:00:05,700
he withdrew money from
your husband's bank account.
3
00:00:06,133 --> 00:00:08,133
This is the last person on earth
that should have that money.
4
00:00:08,133 --> 00:00:10,266
That's not your decision to make.
5
00:00:10,433 --> 00:00:12,900
I could have a dozen people here with me
to make this claim.
6
00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:14,900
You have no right to make that judgment.
7
00:00:14,900 --> 00:00:16,500
I'm gonna fight this fight on my own.
8
00:00:17,967 --> 00:00:19,066
I'm sorry. I'll stop.
9
00:00:19,066 --> 00:00:21,000
This is Judy Justice.
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00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,800
{\an8}Kourtney Friend is suing
her former friend,
11
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,867
{\an8}Joseph T. Ivan Jr.,
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00:00:42,967 --> 00:00:45,667
for stealing money from
her deceased husband's bank account.
13
00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:47,900
Court come to order.
14
00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:49,500
All rise.
15
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,967
Have a seat everyone, please.
16
00:00:53,734 --> 00:00:56,700
Hello, Judge.
Case 2190 Friend versus Ivan Jr.
17
00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,166
- Thank you.
- You're welcome.
18
00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:03,533
Mrs. Friend,
your husband passed away recently?
19
00:01:04,033 --> 00:01:05,967
- Yes.
- When did he pass?
20
00:01:05,967 --> 00:01:08,166
August 26th, 2022.
21
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,867
What did he pass away from?
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00:01:10,867 --> 00:01:12,600
He took his own life.
23
00:01:14,033 --> 00:01:15,066
You have kids?
24
00:01:15,166 --> 00:01:18,200
{\an8}I have one. I have a daughter.
She's seven months old.
25
00:01:19,233 --> 00:01:22,867
She was born, um, June 14th, 2022.
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00:01:23,867 --> 00:01:24,900
I'm sorry.
27
00:01:26,567 --> 00:01:27,867
Thank you.
28
00:01:29,633 --> 00:01:33,000
It is your claim that Mr. Ivan,
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00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:35,333
{\an8}after your husband's death,
30
00:01:35,333 --> 00:01:38,667
{\an8}withdrew money from
your husband's bank account.
31
00:01:39,033 --> 00:01:41,500
Was that a joint bank account
or his own bank account?
32
00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:43,667
It was under his, but we--
So it was his name?
33
00:01:43,667 --> 00:01:45,066
Yes.
So it was his bank account?
34
00:01:45,166 --> 00:01:46,166
It was.
35
00:01:46,166 --> 00:01:48,066
Did you also have a joint bank account?
36
00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:50,567
Uh, we just shared that one.
37
00:01:50,667 --> 00:01:52,967
Uh, I wasn't working and I'm not working.
38
00:01:52,967 --> 00:01:56,200
Um, he is sole provider of our family.
39
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,266
So the bank account
was in his name solely?
40
00:01:58,367 --> 00:01:59,433
Yes.
OK.
41
00:01:59,533 --> 00:02:01,100
How do you know the Defendant?
42
00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:04,533
We met in 2020.
43
00:02:04,533 --> 00:02:07,300
Um, we worked together at Target.
44
00:02:07,533 --> 00:02:11,333
And that's my husband and I,
and also the Defendant.
45
00:02:11,433 --> 00:02:13,433
So you worked there?
- Yes.
46
00:02:13,433 --> 00:02:15,266
Did you become social friends?
47
00:02:15,266 --> 00:02:16,467
Yes.
48
00:02:16,567 --> 00:02:18,166
And at some point,
49
00:02:18,266 --> 00:02:22,400
Mr. Ivan says that
your husband needed money,
50
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,700
that he was in some sort of
difficulty with rent money.
51
00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:27,800
OK.
52
00:02:28,100 --> 00:02:30,100
That's what Mr. Ivan says.
53
00:02:30,767 --> 00:02:32,834
In what month, Mr. Ivan,
54
00:02:32,934 --> 00:02:36,300
do you claim that you loaned money
55
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,834
to Mr. Friend?
56
00:02:37,934 --> 00:02:39,834
Uh, Mr. Wayland is his name.
57
00:02:39,934 --> 00:02:41,266
Wayland.
- Yeah, Michael.
58
00:02:41,266 --> 00:02:43,433
{\an8}Michael and I are best friends, uh,
59
00:02:43,433 --> 00:02:45,900
{\an8}from the day that we met by the way,
just hit it off right away.
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00:02:46,166 --> 00:02:48,033
So this gentleman would come to me
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00:02:48,033 --> 00:02:50,600
- uh, and--and vice versa.
- Just tell me. Just tell me.
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00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,900
The--the money we're talking about
August 17th, 2022.
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00:02:54,433 --> 00:02:58,400
And was the conversation
about the money in your house?
64
00:02:58,400 --> 00:02:59,934
Yes.
In your house?
65
00:03:00,066 --> 00:03:01,633
- Yes.
- I'd like you to tell me
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00:03:01,633 --> 00:03:03,900
- what that conversation was.
- Absolutely.
67
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,100
Michael showed up at my door
on August 17th.
68
00:03:06,100 --> 00:03:08,734
He needed money and he needed
away from the Plaintiff.
69
00:03:08,867 --> 00:03:10,367
- Just a second.
- Uh-uh.
70
00:03:10,467 --> 00:03:12,033
Don't tell me what he needed.
71
00:03:12,133 --> 00:03:14,166
Tell me what he said to you.
72
00:03:14,367 --> 00:03:18,066
His rent is very far behind
and he would like to borrow $1,500.
73
00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:20,100
Did you ask him why?
74
00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:21,667
- Of course.
- And what did he say?
75
00:03:21,834 --> 00:03:23,100
Rent?
No.
76
00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:25,367
Why his rent was so far behind.
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00:03:25,467 --> 00:03:27,567
{\an8}Oh, uh, not exactly.
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00:03:27,667 --> 00:03:30,533
{\an8}He stayed with me for the next two days
so we had a lot of conversation about it.
79
00:03:30,533 --> 00:03:34,133
OK. So when he came on August 17th,
80
00:03:34,133 --> 00:03:37,066
he did not stay home with his wife
81
00:03:37,166 --> 00:03:38,400
and the new baby.
82
00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:40,967
He stayed with you for how many days?
83
00:03:40,967 --> 00:03:42,233
For two-- That week.
84
00:03:42,233 --> 00:03:44,700
You and your husband been
having a difficult time?
85
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,133
We were the last, um,
86
00:03:47,133 --> 00:03:50,133
couple weeks before his ending.
87
00:03:50,633 --> 00:03:53,100
And he did in fact stay out.
88
00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:54,900
Did you know where he was staying?
89
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,100
No, um, I did not. I--
90
00:03:57,100 --> 00:03:59,100
OK, but you knew he was out. Yes.
91
00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:01,100
I had asked him to leave.
92
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:02,200
OK.
93
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,266
Now, his rent in his house where his wife
94
00:04:05,367 --> 00:04:07,400
and his baby were-- it was overdue?
95
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:08,967
Yes, Your Honor.
96
00:04:09,066 --> 00:04:11,867
And he needed $1,500, according to you.
So what did you do?
97
00:04:11,867 --> 00:04:13,734
I gave him the $1,500.
98
00:04:13,734 --> 00:04:17,300
Mrs. Friend,
in June, July, August.
99
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,400
- Was your husband working?
- Yes.
100
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:21,400
Same job?
Uh...
101
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,667
He was working with Burlington, so yes.
102
00:04:23,667 --> 00:04:26,767
Did your husband
have any problems that you know of
103
00:04:26,867 --> 00:04:28,467
with either drugs or gambling?
104
00:04:28,467 --> 00:04:30,066
I didn't know at the time.
105
00:04:30,066 --> 00:04:32,100
But do you know now?
106
00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:33,734
Yes.
107
00:04:33,734 --> 00:04:35,166
{\an8}What kind of problems did he have?
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00:04:35,166 --> 00:04:37,200
{\an8}Um, he, uh,
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00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,533
{\an8}was strug--struggling with, um,
use of cocaine.
110
00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:47,166
OK. So that would account for
his need for money
111
00:04:47,166 --> 00:04:50,100
and also for problems.
112
00:04:51,266 --> 00:04:52,467
OK.
113
00:04:52,467 --> 00:04:55,700
I'm guessing he was a young man.
Did he have any life insurance?
114
00:04:55,700 --> 00:04:58,367
He did. Yes.
He did. How much?
115
00:04:58,367 --> 00:05:00,867
Um, it was, oh my goodness,
116
00:05:00,867 --> 00:05:03,633
it was... seven.
117
00:05:04,433 --> 00:05:06,467
No, I'm sorry, $200,000.
118
00:05:06,467 --> 00:05:09,667
Did the company pay on his life insurance?
119
00:05:09,767 --> 00:05:11,300
No, because he committed suicide.
120
00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:13,500
Oh, it wasn't that, it was,
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00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,300
he had, um, lapsed his payment.
122
00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:19,500
{\an8}So, um, I think his last payment was,
123
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,233
{\an8}I believe, in May,
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00:05:22,233 --> 00:05:24,000
{\an8}and he did not pay it.
125
00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:26,000
So they-- because of that, they did not.
126
00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:27,600
It lapsed. Yeah.
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00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,467
It might not
have been effective anyway
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00:05:30,467 --> 00:05:32,533
since he took his own life.
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00:05:32,533 --> 00:05:35,367
OK. So you lent him $1,500.
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00:05:35,367 --> 00:05:39,233
And how did you repay yourself and when?
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00:05:39,233 --> 00:05:42,200
Your Honor, I'd like to point out
that she was very well aware of the fact
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00:05:42,300 --> 00:05:44,166
that he was using cocaine
for the better part of the year.
133
00:05:44,266 --> 00:05:45,567
Shh. Just a second. OK.
134
00:05:45,567 --> 00:05:47,100
Mr. Ivan?
135
00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:49,300
Not necessary.
OK. OK.
136
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,934
{\an8}I repeat myself because
that was our agreement.
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00:05:51,934 --> 00:05:54,333
{\an8}Michael was at my house a week later also.
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00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:57,934
He logged onto my phone because
he no longer had any belongings.
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00:05:57,934 --> 00:06:01,000
He no longer had a physical wallet
or a phone in his possession.
140
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,133
He lost them.
141
00:06:02,133 --> 00:06:05,200
Ms. Friend had his wallet.
But I can show you that later.
142
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,500
For now, he's asking me
if he can put his memorized information
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00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:10,900
on my digital wallet
which I can show you now if you'd like.
144
00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:12,767
- Yes.
- It's still on my phone to this day.
145
00:06:13,233 --> 00:06:15,166
His information?
- Correct.
146
00:06:15,166 --> 00:06:16,500
- OK.
- With the agreement--
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00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:17,867
Shh. Just a second.
148
00:06:19,667 --> 00:06:23,433
I could understand
you taking back the $1,500
149
00:06:23,433 --> 00:06:25,567
because you say that was
his agreement with you
150
00:06:25,567 --> 00:06:28,533
as was sort of buttressed by the fact
151
00:06:28,533 --> 00:06:31,700
that he put his banking information
on the card.
152
00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:35,333
But why would you transfer
any other money other than
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00:06:35,333 --> 00:06:37,467
the $1,500 out of his account?
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00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:51,433
Kourtney Friend
claims her former friend,
155
00:06:51,533 --> 00:06:53,834
{\an8}Joseph T. Ivan Jr.,
156
00:06:53,834 --> 00:06:56,934
wrongfully took money from
her deceased husband's bank account.
157
00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,266
I want you to bring that up.
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00:06:59,266 --> 00:07:00,967
Yeah.
And Sarah,
159
00:07:00,967 --> 00:07:03,667
- you're going to take a look at that.
- It's the top card, sir.
160
00:07:03,667 --> 00:07:05,033
The one that says Chime.
161
00:07:05,266 --> 00:07:07,567
That's my digital wallet.
My personal digital wallet.
162
00:07:12,033 --> 00:07:14,900
So it's the same as when
you put something in your Apple wallet
163
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,400
and you can pay using--
164
00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:18,834
I'm trying to think of the easiest way
to describe this to you.
165
00:07:19,367 --> 00:07:21,600
If you log in to check your bank balance,
166
00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:23,700
you can save the card to your phone.
167
00:07:23,700 --> 00:07:25,600
So it makes it easier
to pay with your phone.
168
00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:28,934
So it looks as if Mr. Friend logged in...
169
00:07:29,033 --> 00:07:30,700
- Logged in.
- ...to the Defendant's phone
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00:07:30,700 --> 00:07:32,233
with his credentials and information
171
00:07:32,233 --> 00:07:34,767
- So that he--
- There was also latest transactions.
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00:07:34,867 --> 00:07:38,533
The very last transaction
was from... 10/1/22.
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00:07:38,533 --> 00:07:41,700
- And how much was that for?
-$80 at a market.
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00:07:41,867 --> 00:07:44,400
Then there's some gas stations.
That's for October.
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00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:45,967
Mm-hmm.
Prior to that?
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00:07:45,967 --> 00:07:48,000
There's a list of
just latest transactions that--
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00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,967
That's all the tra--
Those are the total transactions.
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00:07:49,967 --> 00:07:51,333
Yeah.
That you made?
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00:07:51,333 --> 00:07:52,967
Well--
- Just a second.
180
00:07:52,967 --> 00:07:56,600
There's an $80 transaction
according to Sarah in October.
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00:07:56,767 --> 00:07:59,166
Yes, Ma'am. So the way that--
Was that your transaction?
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00:07:59,166 --> 00:08:00,967
It was. OK.
183
00:08:01,066 --> 00:08:02,734
I have--
Shh. Just--
184
00:08:03,166 --> 00:08:06,100
I'm sure they'll match with what--
$236 worth of charges.
185
00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:08,333
I charged $236 worth of cash.
186
00:08:08,433 --> 00:08:11,633
- From my husband's passing till--
- Hold on. Hold, hold, hold, hold.
187
00:08:14,934 --> 00:08:17,800
Well, I have $80 in October.
188
00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:21,300
But in transfer to... Who is that?
189
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,100
That is the--
$1,400.
190
00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:25,066
That is the deceased.
191
00:08:25,066 --> 00:08:26,500
Who transferred that?
192
00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:29,100
I transferred it.
That is a GoFundMe account.
193
00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:30,500
And we'll get to this, the check--
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00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:32,667
The check that came through
after he passed away
195
00:08:32,767 --> 00:08:35,633
hit my phone because
he loaded his card onto my phone.
196
00:08:35,633 --> 00:08:39,033
{\an8}The agreement was that I pay myself back
when he was still alive.
197
00:08:39,033 --> 00:08:40,934
{\an8}With the funds that are on that phone.
Just a second.
198
00:08:40,934 --> 00:08:42,967
{\an8}The remaining I sent
to a GoFundMe account.
199
00:08:43,066 --> 00:08:44,567
Why did you do that?
200
00:08:44,734 --> 00:08:46,033
Just a second.
201
00:08:46,033 --> 00:08:49,033
I can almost understand, Mr. Ivan.
202
00:08:49,033 --> 00:08:51,633
- Yeah.
- Because what your position is,
203
00:08:51,734 --> 00:08:55,100
and I actually believe that it's accurate
204
00:08:55,266 --> 00:08:57,734
that your friend came to you...
A 100%.
205
00:08:57,734 --> 00:08:58,800
Shh.
206
00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:02,100
That your friend came to you
in need of money.
207
00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:04,700
That he and his wife
were having difficulty.
208
00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:07,166
That he had an addiction problem.
209
00:09:07,667 --> 00:09:11,500
That he probably spent the rent money
on his addiction problem.
210
00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:13,734
All of that sort of makes sense.
211
00:09:13,734 --> 00:09:17,100
And even though resorting to self-help
212
00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:20,734
after he passed, I would frown on.
213
00:09:20,734 --> 00:09:24,967
I would say, this is a debt
that's owed by his estate.
214
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,100
And I could understand you
who had access to his account
215
00:09:29,100 --> 00:09:31,734
taking back the $1,500
216
00:09:31,834 --> 00:09:33,867
because you say that was
his agreement with you,
217
00:09:33,867 --> 00:09:37,100
as was sort of buttressed by the fact
218
00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:39,367
that he put his banking information--
219
00:09:39,467 --> 00:09:42,367
and it's his sole banking information--
on the card.
220
00:09:43,367 --> 00:09:47,233
But why would you transfer
any other money other than
221
00:09:47,333 --> 00:09:49,367
the $1,500 out of his account?
222
00:09:49,467 --> 00:09:51,834
Into his family's name, Your Honor,
and I can show you why.
223
00:09:51,834 --> 00:09:54,300
I have transcripts
with everyone that knows us.
224
00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:56,567
- I could have a dozen people here.
- Shh.
225
00:09:56,567 --> 00:09:59,467
I'm sorry. I could have a dozen people
here with me to make this claim.
226
00:09:59,633 --> 00:10:02,367
But this is a very sensitive situation
for a lot of people involved.
227
00:10:02,467 --> 00:10:04,834
So I'm gonna fight this fight on my own
without them here.
228
00:10:04,834 --> 00:10:06,100
Just a second.
229
00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:08,233
They'll all tell you that
this is the last person on earth
230
00:10:08,333 --> 00:10:10,433
that should have that money.
Just a second.
231
00:10:10,433 --> 00:10:14,400
This is not about you making a judgment
232
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,333
or about 30 other people making--
233
00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:18,300
That's what Michael--
Shh. Just a second.
234
00:10:19,233 --> 00:10:22,000
Sir, unless you have a writing
235
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,800
from the deceased
236
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,100
that's authenticated in the same process
237
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:29,300
as would authenticate a will
238
00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:32,867
you have no right to make that judgment
as to whether or not
239
00:10:33,233 --> 00:10:36,400
his wife and or child...
240
00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:39,967
{\an8}I assume he died without a will.
Is that correct?
241
00:10:40,734 --> 00:10:42,400
{\an8}Yes, that's correct. OK.
242
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,133
{\an8}So under the laws of
practically every state
243
00:10:46,133 --> 00:10:50,133
if you die intestate,
which means you die without a will,
244
00:10:50,133 --> 00:10:53,333
there's a certain order of people
who inherit your money.
245
00:10:53,333 --> 00:10:56,533
Your spouse, your children.
246
00:10:57,166 --> 00:11:00,100
It goes sort of in order,
is there's a pecking order.
247
00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:03,533
You have no right to amend that.
248
00:11:04,066 --> 00:11:07,066
You actually don't even have a right
249
00:11:07,066 --> 00:11:10,166
to repay yourself after he's dead.
250
00:11:10,166 --> 00:11:12,033
You have no right to do that.
251
00:11:12,033 --> 00:11:15,133
But I can actually understand
252
00:11:15,233 --> 00:11:17,166
your sense that...
253
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:20,100
unless you paid yourself,
you weren't gonna get your money back.
254
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:21,500
I can understand that.
255
00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,300
But whatever your intentions were, sir,
256
00:11:24,533 --> 00:11:27,800
you have no right to do anything else
257
00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:30,033
with the money in that bank account.
258
00:11:30,834 --> 00:11:33,233
- May I?
- Am I making myself clear?
259
00:11:34,266 --> 00:11:36,266
I hope so. Is that clear?
260
00:11:36,367 --> 00:11:37,934
Yes?
Brought me right back
261
00:11:38,033 --> 00:11:40,934
- to wills, trusts, and estates, so yeah.
- Yeah. Right. Go ahead.
262
00:11:41,033 --> 00:11:42,600
Your Honor,
Michael and I had an agreement.
263
00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:44,967
OK? So whether or not--
Shh. Just a second.
264
00:11:45,233 --> 00:11:47,166
You and Michael had an agreement
265
00:11:47,166 --> 00:11:50,700
that you made a loan to him
in the amount of $1,500
266
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:53,567
and in order to secure your repayment,
267
00:11:53,567 --> 00:11:55,467
- I've read your answer, sir.
- Yeah.
268
00:11:55,467 --> 00:11:58,600
He gave you his account number
and according to you, he said,
269
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:02,233
"When I get paid
you can take the money back
270
00:12:02,233 --> 00:12:05,000
that you loaned me." That's $1,500.
271
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,300
May I continue?
272
00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:08,467
I've only used $236.00.
273
00:12:08,467 --> 00:12:11,066
That's all that I've used. $236.00.
274
00:12:11,066 --> 00:12:12,667
And I can show you the math here
on this spreadsheet.
275
00:12:12,667 --> 00:12:14,467
But it start-- Let's start with $1,500,
276
00:12:14,467 --> 00:12:17,700
$845 he paid back to me on August 24th
a week later.
277
00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:19,900
Oh OK.
Hold, hold on a second.
278
00:12:19,900 --> 00:12:22,200
-$1,500.
- That's right.
279
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,800
And he paid you back what?
-$845 on August 24th.
280
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,367
Good for him.
- Right.
281
00:12:27,367 --> 00:12:29,467
Did he pay you back by,
282
00:12:30,133 --> 00:12:32,300
by-- Michael, Just listen to me.
283
00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:33,500
Don't play.
284
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:37,934
Did he pay you back by coming to
your house and giving you the money or--
285
00:12:37,934 --> 00:12:39,533
- Digitally--
- Shh!
286
00:12:39,533 --> 00:12:41,166
He paid you back digitally.
- That's right.
287
00:12:41,166 --> 00:12:42,800
May I see that please, Kevin?
288
00:12:45,266 --> 00:12:47,367
Using my phone in his account--
Shh!
289
00:12:48,633 --> 00:12:52,000
So now he owes you $655.
That's Right.
290
00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:57,867
OK.
291
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,900
Kevin, I'd like you to
show this to the Plaintiff.
292
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:02,567
- Have you seen this?
- No.
293
00:13:02,567 --> 00:13:04,900
OK. I'd like you to show
this to the Plaintiff.
294
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,166
So Mr. Ivan acknowledges
295
00:13:10,667 --> 00:13:12,600
that your husband--
296
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,000
- Mrs. Friend, pay attention.
- Yes.
297
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,500
That's your husband paid him back
298
00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:19,033
more than half of what he had borrowed.
299
00:13:19,033 --> 00:13:20,200
Now.
300
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:21,500
Then...
301
00:13:22,333 --> 00:13:25,900
you took back, Mr. Ivan, from the account
302
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,500
how much money?
303
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,033
Two hundred and thirty six dollars.
304
00:13:29,633 --> 00:13:31,700
No, that's not true.
305
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:32,967
Shh.
306
00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:35,233
- We can go line by line.
- Shh.
307
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,700
That's a debit, not a credit.
308
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:42,767
He sent the $1,400.
Michael to the GoFundme.
309
00:13:42,767 --> 00:13:45,467
Oh yo, shh. Just a second.
You can't do that, sir.
310
00:13:45,467 --> 00:13:46,967
I have a baby!
311
00:13:46,967 --> 00:13:48,266
Listen to me.
312
00:13:48,266 --> 00:13:50,900
You were there, you provided a shelter
313
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:53,166
- for Michael--
- To get away from her.
314
00:13:53,266 --> 00:13:54,900
That's right.
315
00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:56,967
I'm sorry. I'll stop.
316
00:14:08,033 --> 00:14:11,600
Kourtney Friend
has accused her former friend,
317
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,166
{\an8}Joseph T. Ivan Jr., of stealing money
318
00:14:14,166 --> 00:14:16,266
from her deceased husband's bank account.
319
00:14:17,033 --> 00:14:19,367
Which of these charges?
320
00:14:19,367 --> 00:14:20,900
There's an $80 charge.
321
00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:23,166
A $60.
322
00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:24,667
Are those your charges?
323
00:14:24,667 --> 00:14:26,233
Yes.
OK. Hold on.
324
00:14:26,333 --> 00:14:28,033
One forty.
Just a second.
325
00:14:28,033 --> 00:14:30,300
- One forty five.
- Yes.
326
00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:32,967
A $77.35.
- Yes. And that's it.
327
00:14:32,967 --> 00:14:34,433
Those four.
328
00:14:34,533 --> 00:14:36,533
What about a Cash app?
329
00:14:36,533 --> 00:14:39,166
That's the digital transaction
that you just had.
330
00:14:39,934 --> 00:14:41,767
Oh, and $845. Got it.
331
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,033
I'm still owed $392.
Shh!
332
00:14:46,266 --> 00:14:48,233
OK. Now,
333
00:14:48,333 --> 00:14:51,266
how much money do you allege,
334
00:14:51,367 --> 00:14:54,266
and I'm gonna give this to you
or give you--
335
00:14:54,500 --> 00:14:57,066
you must have this--
how much money do you allege
336
00:14:57,166 --> 00:14:58,934
that he took out of the account?
337
00:14:59,033 --> 00:15:02,100
{\an8}I'm, um, asking for $2,700.
338
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:03,734
{\an8}I don't care what you're asking for.
339
00:15:03,734 --> 00:15:05,500
That's irrelevant to me
what you're asking for.
340
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,767
OK.
341
00:15:06,767 --> 00:15:09,967
How much money do you
allege he took out of the account?
342
00:15:10,066 --> 00:15:12,166
I think he took way more
than what he's saying.
343
00:15:12,266 --> 00:15:14,333
Oh, well, I don't care what you think.
344
00:15:14,433 --> 00:15:17,066
He-- well, it's proof right there.
I don't. I don't.
345
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:21,900
Other than the $1,400,
346
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:27,433
which he says he transferred
to the GoFundMe page,
347
00:15:27,433 --> 00:15:30,767
did you receive for your daughter
348
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,433
any part of this $1,400
that came from a GoFundMe page?
349
00:15:34,433 --> 00:15:36,033
I have not. No.
350
00:15:36,033 --> 00:15:37,667
I--
OK.
351
00:15:37,767 --> 00:15:38,967
- Can-- OK.
- Just a second.
352
00:15:38,967 --> 00:15:40,600
But the GoFundMe page
353
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,667
was subsequent
354
00:15:42,667 --> 00:15:45,567
to your husband's death, is that right?
355
00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:48,033
- Yes.
- Who started the GoFundMe page?
356
00:15:48,033 --> 00:15:50,066
It was my husband's.
357
00:15:50,066 --> 00:15:52,667
So this money did not
belong to your husband.
358
00:15:53,266 --> 00:15:55,400
{\an8}This money was not money
from your husband.
359
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,433
{\an8}This money was started by somebody else,
360
00:15:58,433 --> 00:16:00,567
not the Defendant, and somehow
361
00:16:00,667 --> 00:16:02,400
ended up in your husband's bank account.
362
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:03,633
Am I getting that right?
363
00:16:03,633 --> 00:16:05,367
No.
Well, what's this $1,400?
364
00:16:05,367 --> 00:16:07,400
How did it end up--?
I transferred it from--
365
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:10,200
That's Michael's bank account ledger.
It's attached to my digital wallet.
366
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,734
I understand--
367
00:16:11,734 --> 00:16:13,166
It's going to the GoFundMe.
368
00:16:13,166 --> 00:16:16,300
A GoFundMe is a special account
that's set up in a, in a tragic--
369
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:20,367
I--I know exactly what it is
but what I'm not following is
370
00:16:20,367 --> 00:16:24,100
- why would it not be in his...?
- It is.
371
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:28,000
He's saying that that
is a "To", not a "Receiving".
372
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,100
- That's a debit, not a credit.
- He sent the $1,400...
373
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:32,500
...dollars to the Go--
374
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:35,967
Oh, yo. Shh. Just a second.
Oh, you can't do that.
375
00:16:36,166 --> 00:16:38,400
Sorry, sir. You can't do that.
376
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,800
So you took out money
that didn't belong to you
377
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,233
because at best case scenario,
378
00:16:44,233 --> 00:16:46,500
- you're still owed $400.
-$392.
379
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:48,433
Yeah. OK. $400.
380
00:16:48,433 --> 00:16:50,333
You were still owed $400
381
00:16:50,333 --> 00:16:53,934
and you withdrew $1,400
382
00:16:53,934 --> 00:16:56,467
of Michael's money
383
00:16:56,467 --> 00:16:58,734
and sent it to the GoFundMe page.
384
00:16:58,834 --> 00:17:01,834
Yeah. Because of the fact
that the last person on earth
385
00:17:01,834 --> 00:17:04,233
that Michael would want to have that money
is this person right here.
386
00:17:04,233 --> 00:17:06,166
That's not your judgment to make, sir.
387
00:17:06,166 --> 00:17:07,500
That's fine. That's--
Just a sec.
388
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,100
That's--that's not. Listen to me.
389
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,000
I've tried to explain to you.
390
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,100
- I tried to explain to you...
- OK.
391
00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:17,467
...what the laws of intestacy are
392
00:17:17,467 --> 00:17:18,700
in this country.
393
00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:21,166
If you die without a will,
394
00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:23,367
there are certain people
who get your money.
395
00:17:23,367 --> 00:17:25,734
Whether the deceased hates them,
396
00:17:25,734 --> 00:17:27,533
wasn't talking to them,
397
00:17:27,533 --> 00:17:29,633
it doesn't make any difference.
398
00:17:29,734 --> 00:17:32,967
Unless he and his wife are separated
399
00:17:33,066 --> 00:17:36,967
by a lawful separation order by the court,
400
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:41,433
she and his daughter
are entitled to this money.
401
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,266
And it's not up to his best friend
or his best friend's friends
402
00:17:45,367 --> 00:17:48,700
or other people to say,
he was angry with her,
403
00:17:48,934 --> 00:17:50,266
she threw him out...
404
00:17:50,266 --> 00:17:52,834
Whatever the reason that you're saying
405
00:17:52,834 --> 00:17:57,300
Michael would want the last person to
receive any money from this GoFundMe page
406
00:17:57,300 --> 00:17:58,834
is the Plaintiff--
407
00:17:58,834 --> 00:18:01,333
that's not your decision to make.
408
00:18:01,333 --> 00:18:04,433
{\an8}You took back some of your own money.
He paid you back some.
409
00:18:04,433 --> 00:18:07,233
{\an8}You may get skunked for $400.
410
00:18:07,233 --> 00:18:08,867
- I don't want it--
- Just a second.
411
00:18:08,867 --> 00:18:11,834
You may get--
you may get skunked for $400,
412
00:18:11,834 --> 00:18:15,834
but if you sent this money
to a GoFundMe page and that was $1,400...
413
00:18:15,834 --> 00:18:17,233
For the family's name, Your Honor.
414
00:18:17,233 --> 00:18:19,500
You can't do that!
415
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,734
That's fine. I came--
You can't.
416
00:18:21,734 --> 00:18:24,000
Michael would not want her to have it,
so I gave it to his family.
417
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:25,367
OK. Well, you can't do that, sir.
418
00:18:25,467 --> 00:18:27,667
I have a baby.
Unless-- Shh.
419
00:18:28,233 --> 00:18:31,300
I'm not faulting you emotionally, sir.
420
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:32,700
Yeah.
Listen to me.
421
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:34,100
You were there.
422
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,266
You provided a shelter for Michael--
423
00:18:37,266 --> 00:18:38,467
To get away from her.
424
00:18:38,467 --> 00:18:40,000
That's right.
425
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,800
I'm sorry. I'll stop.
426
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,834
That's, that's a fact.
It's just the truth.
427
00:18:43,834 --> 00:18:46,367
Judgment for the Plaintiff
in the amount of $1,400.
428
00:18:46,467 --> 00:18:48,500
We have finished.
This Court is adjourned.
429
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,533
It doesn't matter.
The woman's a fraud. She's a fraud.
430
00:18:52,533 --> 00:18:54,567
Um, that money should not be going to her.
431
00:18:54,567 --> 00:18:57,300
She's the last person on earth that
this gentleman wanted to have that money.
432
00:18:57,633 --> 00:18:58,700
I'm happy.
433
00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,600
I'm happy that she sided with me,
434
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:02,767
listened to me, and--
435
00:19:02,767 --> 00:19:04,967
Well, that's all she cares about is money.
That's what this is all about.
436
00:19:04,967 --> 00:19:06,967
She knew that that was not right,
437
00:19:06,967 --> 00:19:09,033
because it-- that's not.
I mean,
438
00:19:09,133 --> 00:19:10,533
what kind of person would...
439
00:19:10,633 --> 00:19:12,767
Kourtney's out for money,
always was in the relationship.
440
00:19:12,767 --> 00:19:15,333
Take money from a...
441
00:19:15,433 --> 00:19:19,033
a new mom as someone who's grieving.
442
00:19:19,033 --> 00:19:23,367
It's just-- it's been such a mess,
and I feel good about this.
443
00:19:23,367 --> 00:19:25,100
Because I'm the only one who would
do the right thing with it.
444
00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:27,600
- And he knew that.
- He was very defensive.
445
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:29,934
He was very defensive and very hateful.
446
00:19:29,934 --> 00:19:32,233
I'm a great guy.
He'd want me to fight the good fight.
447
00:19:32,233 --> 00:19:33,300
All Good.
448
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:35,266
He shouldn't have took anything from me.
449
00:19:35,266 --> 00:19:37,000
He's already--
450
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,667
I've already lost so much.
451
00:19:38,667 --> 00:19:39,900
Happy it's over.
452
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:44,300
I've lost my best friend,
my husband, the love of my life,
453
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,367
and the father of our new child.
454
00:19:46,367 --> 00:19:49,900
Um, just, it's not OK.
455
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:53,600
He too-- he caught me in
a very vulnerable-- vulnerable state.
456
00:19:54,166 --> 00:19:57,834
That case for as tragic as it was,
and I really felt for the Plaintiff,
457
00:19:57,834 --> 00:20:00,433
brought me right back
to wills, trusts, and estates
458
00:20:00,433 --> 00:20:02,967
and the basic, you know, three rules,
459
00:20:02,967 --> 00:20:06,066
"age of majority," "of sound mind,"
and "a writing."
460
00:20:06,066 --> 00:20:07,700
And it's just really unfortunate that
461
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:09,734
the Plaintiff's husband didn't have one.
462
00:20:09,734 --> 00:20:12,900
You know,
if I were to venture a guess,
463
00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,734
I would say that most people,
464
00:20:16,533 --> 00:20:19,433
when they're under 40, don't have a will.
465
00:20:19,433 --> 00:20:20,500
Yeah.
466
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:22,934
He was a new father.
467
00:20:22,934 --> 00:20:24,567
You know, baby.
468
00:20:24,567 --> 00:20:26,200
Makes it all that much more important.
469
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,934
Yeah it does.
470
00:20:27,934 --> 00:20:30,100
But he was a new father
with a cocaine addiction.
471
00:20:30,467 --> 00:20:34,000
Tough to try and guess the mental state
of someone going through that.
472
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,367
But I-- I also agree with you
that you can't fault
473
00:20:37,367 --> 00:20:41,300
the Defendant for his emotional...
He knew how his friend felt,
474
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:43,600
and he was trying to
carry out those wishes.
475
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,934
But there is the law and there are rules.
476
00:20:45,934 --> 00:20:47,934
- Right.
- And you can't take it upon yourself
477
00:20:47,934 --> 00:20:50,200
- to redistribute your friend's money.
- Money.
478
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,266
Or-- or the GoFundMe money.
479
00:20:52,266 --> 00:20:53,333
- Yes.
- Yeah.
480
00:20:53,333 --> 00:20:56,200
All good intentions,
but you gotta follow the rules.
481
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,300
Right.
482
00:20:58,367 --> 00:20:59,800
Want justice?
483
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,934
{\an8}Go to JudyJustice.tv.