It's your claim that the Defendant hit your scooter.
Yes, ma'am.
Is that a fair representation of the accident site?
No, it's not.
How would you know? You wasn't even there. She wasn't even there.
You called him an idiot!
She's gone.
In front of my son!
Gone! Gone!
This is Judy Justice.
Matthew Klingelhoffer...
is suing fellow motorist, Robin Major,
for scooter damages after Robin hit Matthew's scooter.
Court coming to order. All rise.
Have a seat, everyone.
Hello, Judge.
Case 2197: Klingelhofer vs. Major.
- Thank you. - Mm-hmm.
You were riding a motor scooter.
- Yes, ma'am. - Can you describe it for me, please?
It is a 2018 Yamaha Zuma.
Is that a small...?
- No, it's... I got a picture of it here. - Can I see that, please?
Yeah, well, it's small.
- Yeah, it's a small vehicle... - And, you were on...
this vehicle with a child?
- Yes, ma'am. - That was your son who's how old?
Uh, 12.
- What's his name? - Justin Barr.
- He's not here today. - No.
- Why not? - He has autism.
And you were riding with him going where on October 20th of last year?
I just picked him up from school and I was on my way home.
How far is it?
Uh, the school is less than a half a mile from my home.
Do you pick him up every day?
Most of the time, yeah, but since this accident
I have not pickled him up since.
Mom does.
So, there's a car available to pick him up.
- Yes. - It's your claim that the Defendant,
while acting negligently, hit your scooter and damaged it.
- Yes, ma'am. - You want him to be responsible.
That happened on the 22nd of October.
- I assume sometime after three o'clock? - Yes.
- It was at 3:18... - In... In what state do you live?
Evansville, Indiana.
Is there any sort of helmet rule in Indiana?
- No, ma'am. - Yes, there is.
- My son... for a child, yes, he was... - Just a second.
So, the answer is either "yes" or "no".
- You said, "No," so there... - Yes, ma'am, for me, no.
For my son, yes.
- Was your son wearing a helmet? - Yes, ma'am.
- You know he was not. - Shh shh. Now, listen to me.
Shh. Don't speak.
He had a small, purple bicycle helmet on.
Now, you wear a helmet because...
To keep him from getting his head hurt.
- Hurt. - Yeah.
- Well try... - Right, well, just for my own interest,
why wouldn't you wear a helmet to prevent you from getting hurt?
Dumb is what dumb does?
Well, that would be an answer,
because that sounds sort of reckless to me.
Yes, ma'am. I wear a helmet now.
And I'm not so sure your son was wearing a helmet on the 22nd of October either...
sir, so I want you to be very, very careful
when I ask you this question again.
Are you positive that your son was wearing a helmet on the 22nd of October?
- No, ma'am, I wasn't 100% positive. - Okay.
- But he normally-- - Shh, just a sec.
- Always is wearing a helmet. - Okay.
On your way home...
I understand you have some sort of a chart to try to explain to me
what the accident, well, this is your version of the accident.
So, you want to step over there, Mr. Klingelhoefer.
- Yes, ma'am. - That would be you and your son
riding, both of you probably without helmets
and it looks, that's your version, and it looks as if--
- I was sitting in traffic... Sorry. - Shh, just a sec...
And it looks as if there's a lot of traffic.
- Yes, ma'am. - So a lot of traffic, no helmets...
You're on your way home and? Go ahead.
I was just sitting in traffic here waiting for the train to clear
and he comes off his driveway and backs right into me.
No horn, no regard of... Me being there or nothin.
Okay. I... Just a... Just... Wait, wait one second.
- On the other side... This is your chart. - Yes, ma'am.
On the other side of where the defendant's driveway is,
which I assume is the blue car,
that's his driveway, is that a street?
- Yes, ma'am. - You know where I'm talking about?
- Yes. - Point to where I'm talking about.
- This is a street called, uh... - Yes, that's a street.
- Yes. - And that's a street that has cars.
- Yes, ma'am. - Right, so,
one would say you should not be in that intersection.
- Well, I didn't, uh... - Just a second. Just a second.
One would say, even in your chart, you should not be in that intersection.
You should be either, have enough room in front,
or wait until the traffic moves.
Because you're stuck in the middle, so a car can't move out of...
- That's... - I was actually sitting about right here.
- Well, this is your chart. - Yes, ma'am.
So, you indicate that that chart is not absolutely correct.
No, it's not.
And that your scooter was right behind the three cars.
I was behind these three cars here...
But still in the intersection.
- Yes, ma'am, uh... - Just a second.
We was coming to a rolling stop as the arms were coming down,
so I didn't know where I was going to stop at,
so I was rolling with traffic
and the vehicle that was in front of me was also pulling a trailer
and I couldn't see around it. It was a big box trailer.
So, you couldn't see what was in front of you.
No, I could not.
And I... I got as far away from his driveway as I possibly could.
Well, no. You weren't even thinking about his driveway, sir.
Let's be square, you know,
it's not a good idea to make things up as you go.
- No. - You didn't even know
- that his driveway was there. - Yeah, I did.
- You did? Just... Just a second. - I knew it was there,
but I was trying to get far enough out of the way of the intersection.
I didn't think he was going to come out of his driveway and back into me, ma'am.
Well so you were watching the other side? Not the driveway?
- Is that what you're saying? - Yeah, I was looking at the intersection.
- Yeah. Okay. - Making sure
I got out of the intersection, got past the yellow line.
Okay. So, he clipped the...
- Rear, right by my tail light. - Yeah.
- Back here. - Yes, ma'am.
And, what happened? Go back, now.
- It literally just shoved me over. - Okay.
Go back.
So, it shoved you over.
Now, when it shoved you over, did you land on one foot,
or did you land on the pavement?
No, we landed on the pavement.
I tossed my son up because he was sitting in front of me.
- Up onto his feet. - Just a... Justa second.
Oh, hold on.
- Hold the phone. - I went into dad mode.
Hold the phone.
Your son was sitting in front of you.
- Yes. - That's what... is that what he said?
"He was sitting in front of me."
So, your son was driving?
- No, he was not driving, I was driving... - I'm trying to get...
I'm trying to get this picture in my head.
- I'm being a protective parent. - With this little... Just a second.
With this little scooter, your son was in front of you.
This is one seat, so he was sitting in front of you.
- Yes, ma'am. - Your 12 year old.
- Yes, ma'am. - Yes.
And how tall is your 12 year old?
- Probably about five foot, if that. - My size.
- Yes. - So, like a fully grown adult.
He may be not yet fully grown for a kid, but I'm a fully grown adult
and I'm five feet tall and I've been that my whole life, so I'm an adult.
Yeah. Yes, ma'am.
Right? Okay. So, your adult child is sitting in front of you,
you're sitting behind him...
- Yes, ma'am. - Now, I want you to explain to me...
Hold out your arms. I want you to explain to me
how your son is in front of you,
you're behind him in the back part of this seat,
and you're driving.
I want you to explain that to me.
The 12 year old driving the motor scooter.
- He was not driving. - Well, I don't believe you.
I don't believe you either.
I don't care whether you believe me.
You're not judging me, I'm judging you.
So, that means that if I don't believe you, that's important.
If you don't believe me, that is irrelevant.
Matthew Klingelhoefer
claims fellow motorist, Robin Major,
hit Matthew's scooter while Robin was pulling out of his driveway.
- Go ahead. - I'm reaching around my son and driving.
I've been doing it since I was 16. I've been driving scooters since I was 16.
Hey. You may have been driving scooters when you were 16,
but I've been using my common sense for 80 years.
And I don't see why your son wasn't sitting behind you
so you didn't have to lean over
on that big, long seat
in order to be maneuvering this scooter.
I'm not visualizing that, Mr. Klingelhoefer.
So, I want you to take a deep breath.
Kevin.
Let me see Mr. Major's diagram.
So, I want you... Your son is sitting in front
- on the seat... - Mm-hmm.
You're sitting in the raised portion behind him.
- Mm-hmm. - I want you to put that down there.
Sitting back there on the raised portion makes me sit up much higher than him.
- Sarah? - Mm-hmm?
Does your research indicate how long this thing is?
Does it give any dimensions?
I'm sure I could find it.
Okay, so, he clipped the back and you fell off?
We fell over. I put... stood my son back up,
- I got up... - Okay, so you fell over
and your son got up...
I got my son up. I got up.
He was still pushing my vehicle.
I got up to smack on the back of his window.
And then he gets out and aggressively screaming at me,
"Why you smackin' on my window? Why are you trying to break my window?"
- Okay. - I asked him,
"Why are still proceeding to try to run over my vehicle?"
Well, he's not trying to run over your vehicle, sir.
What kind of car did he have?
- He had a truck. - A Chevy Blazer.
Big one. 2003.
He's in a very high SUV, right?
- And you're in a very low scooter. - Mm-hmm.
Now, neither you or your son went to the hospital, is that right?
No, ma'am, neither one of us went.
Neither you or your son had medical treatment at the scene.
My son was looked over, but that was it...
Just a second. Neither of you had medical treatment
- at the scene. - No, no.
Neither you or your son went to a doctor.
- No. - Now, do you have a photograph
of what your scooter looked like after this accident?
Because this is his photograph
That's after the accident.
There's another one.
Okay. I'd like to see what your photograph looks like, Mr. Klingelhoefer--
There's all of 'em.
- I'm working on it, ma'am. - Of your motorcycle, because
Mr. Majors is handing me up his photographs of what this looks like.
Here's the whole stack.
Okay. So, what we're talking about is...
this piece right here.
- That's my exhaust and... - Just a second.
That's what's damaged.
- This piece-- - That and the upper panel, there.
I don't see anything damaged
- in the upper panel... - On my picture it shows it.
- I'd like to see. - I bet it does.
- Now, on that muffler... it's rust. - Shh. Shh. Shh. Shh...
It's not rust. - Shh...
- I might not know nothin' about scooters,
but I know what rust looks like. Mister...
- Mr. Major. - Yes, ma'am?
I don't know what's wrong with you.
I made myself clear, pleasantly, to you, respectfully to you,
but you certainly understood that here we don't talk to each other.
- Yes, ma'am. - That you will have a turn.
Right now...
- it's his turn. - Yes, ma'am.
And, Your Honor, that wheelbase is 50 inches,
so about four feet wheel to wheel.
Okay, so, let me see.
So, from here to here, wheel to wheel is four feet.
So, sitting on the back here,
in order to get to the handlebars...
It'd be, like, three feet.
Three feet. Hold out your arms.
Nah. Okay. Now, just to complete your story, sir,
Mr. Klingelhoefer, this happened in October.
And you said you wear a motorcycle helmet now, or a helmet now.
Yes, ma'am. Yes.
- Since the accident. - Yes, ma'am.
Since this accident.
It scared me straight.
And did you or did you not have the scooter repaired?
- No, I have not had it repaired... - Just a second.
So, the answer is no.
- Pay attention Mr. Klingelhoefer. - I...
From which I deduce, you're looking at your papers,
from which I deduce that the motor scooter is operable,
you've been using it since October, despite the...
- No. - Oh, yes, that's what you just said.
- I haven't been using it. - Who's been using it?
I've... I got three others.
No, no, no.
I got three other scooters that I've been driving.
- I have not been driving that one. - I don't believe... Just a second.
- I don't believe you, sir. - Okay.
I want you to be really careful about what you say to me.
You do wear a helmet now. Now you know where I'm going Mr. Klingelhoefer?
- Yes. - Since the accident, so does your son.
There is nothing that appears to be mechanically wrong
with this motor scooter
in either your photographs or his.
- Nothing mechanical-- - I have an estimate.
I don't care what your estimate says, sir, my naked eye...
First of all, you understand that I'm doubting...
I'm doubting big parts of your story, Mr. Klingelhoefer.
Yes, I understand. I understand, ma'am.
I doubt big parts of your story about whether or not you were wearing a helmet.
I don't think your son was wearing a helmet.
I think that this diagram indicates to me
that you were in a place where you shouldn't have been.
That's your diagram. He has his own diagram that'd probably be very different.
So, I am going to assume, because that's my common sense,
that you and, or, your son had been riding this motor scooter
since October and that it hasn't sat idly.
I don't care what you got.
Because the pictures belie the fact that this motor scooter
was damaged beyond being ridable.
And that's if it was his fault.
Okay. Now we've got his picture, now we're coming to you.
Is that a fair and accurate representation
- of the accident site? - Yes.
No, it's not. - Yes.
Now-- - How would you know?
You wasn't even there.
You didn't show up 20 minutes after the fact.
Hey, hey, excuse me. - You did not show up...
- She wasn't even there. She's... - I'm gonna... I'm gonna throw you out.
And you're gonna lose this...
I'm gonna throw you out and you're gonna lose...
When you called him an idiot!
In front of my son!
Okay. She's gone.
Gone! Gone! Gone!
Yeah.
- I know why you can't afford insurance... - Gone!
We wouldn't be here today if he had insurance.
Did you understand why I threw your wife out?
- Yeah. - Yeah.
I don't know what you people think this is all about.
The fact that he had no, is what you say to me,
he had no insurance which is why you're here?
Yeah, we wouldn't be here right now if we didn't... if he had insurance
if insurance would've took care of all that.
Yeah, well, it's possible,
Mr. Klingelhoefer, that you wouldn't be here right now
and I haven't made a decision yet if you weren't driving recklessly,
- without helmets, with your son-- - I wasn't driving recklessly.
with your son who, according to you, has issues,
the 12-year-old driving the motor scooter.
- He was not driving. - Well, I don't believe you.
I don't believe you either.
I don't care whether you believe me. You're not judging me, I'm judging you.
So, that means that if I don't believe you, that's important.
If you don't believe me, that is irrelevant.
Were you driving your car uninsured?
- I was moving my car... - Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no!
Be very careful what you say to me.
You turned the ignition on,
started to move.
That's driving.
Matthew Klingelhoefer
is accusing fellow motorist, Robin Major,
of hitting him and his son
while Robin backed out of his driveway.
Okay, your statement, Mr. Major, based upon this diagram
is that the defendant pulled out
and was, to sort of beat the traffic, and was driving not in a lane.
Which suggests to me, sir,
that you saw him.
I didn't see him.
Well, how do you know that he pulled out?
When I was coming backing out,
the car that's adjacent there, he waved me out.
- You mean the car... - Behind...
Go over there. I know what you're talking about, just so that we're clear.
- The car behind said you... - This here, this car.
As I'm coming out of my driveway
He's... He's saying... He's waving me out.
He's waving you on to suggest that it's clear.
It's clear. So, I'm coming out and...
I didn't see him, Your Honor.
You didn't see him.
- No. - Okay.
Now, go back.
Now, Mr. Major, we're going to get to insurance.
Were you driving your car uninsured?
I wasn't driving... I was moving my car...
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no! Be very careful what you say to me.
You put a key in the ignition,
you turned the ignition on,
- you put the car in reverse-- - Yes, ma'am.
started to move.
That's driving.
Yes, ma'am.
And driving far enough into the street, so you weren't on your property according--
- No, my car was still in... - Oh, no, no, no.
- The front end was still in the driveway. - Mr. Major. Mr. Major.
You said that that's a fair and accurate representation
- of the accident scene. - That's my driveway.
The back of your car is not in the driveway,
the back of your car is in a public street.
- Right, I wasn't all the way out. - That's what you... Yeah, he was...
Listen to me.
Mr. Major, I'm an equal opportunity abuser.
- Yes, well... - You have to understand that,
so, please, you know,
I'm sort of ancient, but please don't treat me as if I'm stupid.
- No, I wouldn't do that, Your Honor. - You know, people confuse age
- with stupidity. That would be a - No, I would not...
huge mistake on your part.
- Yes. - Huge.
Unless you're suggesting he came up on your driveway,
which this doesn't suggest at all,
you were in a public street without insurance.
- Yes, ma'am. - Well, that would be an easy.
Did the police respond to this accident?
- Yes, ma'am. - Is there a police report?
There... Yes, ma'am.
This is the only thing they gave me. May I have it, please?
Right here.
"Scuff and scratch marks were observed on the left side of vehicle two."
That's what the police officer observed.
Now, what did you do after this accident, Mr. Klingelhoefer?
I called the police.
You got the police, the police came, they took a report, they spoke to you.
Now, you were picking your son up from school.
- Yes, ma'am. - Where did you go?
- I went home. - You went home with your son?
Now, when you went home with your son, you were riding in front. Is that correct?
We walked home.
My vehicle was not ridable.
- My exhaust pipe was bent... - Shh, just a second.
How did you get the motor scooter?
I pushed it.
Did you see him push the motor scooter?
I seen him push it down so far and then he got on it.
Just a second. Would you bring in Mr. Klingelhoefer's wife?
- This way. Go left. - Okay.
Step over next to your husband, please.
Were you at home when your husband came home with your son after this accident?
- He actually called me... - Just a second.
- I said were you at home? - Yes, I was at home.
Who else was home with you?
My brother
and my friend.
You say your husband called you and he told you about the accident.
- Yes. - And what did you do?
Me and ... got in the car and we pulled up
and I, I parked in the middle of the street.
Go over to that chart and show me where you pulled up.
About right here.
Okay, so, you pulled up right near where the accident was.
- Yes. - And where was your husband?
He was right here with Justin.
Okay. Go back.
And then what happened? Police come.
Police leave. I want you to tell me what happened next.
After the police and fire department ambulance leave,
me and Justin walked to where they told me to park my car,
- so me and Justin got in the car... - And your husband?
He has already, was walking the scooter back to our house with ...
And is that how he arrived at the house, walking with the motor scooter?
- Yes. - Very good. Kevin?
- She can go out now. - Okay.
This way, please.
Now, as soon as Kevin gets back,
I'm gonna take a look at your estimate.
Thank you, Kevin.
Okay, so, "protector muffler." Reasonable.
"Front fender." Unreasonable.
- I... - Just a second.
You understand?
- Yeah. - Okay. "Radiator cover.
Footrest boards." No.
Rear reflector is reasonable.
"Exhaust pipe." Okay.
- Now, Mr. Major. - Yes, ma'am.
I'm going to tell you
that ordinarily I would award him half the damage
because I think that he was 50% responsible for this accident.
I think he was driving negligently with his son.
I think his son was actually, his 12 year old son,
was driving the scooter.
I think that that's what happened
because his story about him sitting in the rear seat
hunching over his son in a four foot wheel base
is not something that I can conjure.
And if it was true, it was still reckless.
So, I would actually ascribe half of his damage to him.
I'm not and I'm going to tell you why.
Because if there was a lot of traffic, you are at least partially responsible
for not being more cautious.
You're driving in a big car.
There was somebody behind you because you did, in fact, hit them.
And you have to be very cautious when you're driving a big car.
The reason I'm ascribing all the damage to you, sir,
is because you had no insurance!
And nobody belongs on the road without insurance!
And there has to be a penalty when you're driving without insurance,
just like when you're driving without a license.
Do you require a license...
- Just a second. Just... Hey! - I require...
Where you live, which Sarah can check,
do you need a driver's license to ride a scooter on the street?
No, you need an endorsement for a Class B scooter--
A what?
An endorsement for a Class B scooter.
Okay. Do you have that?
- Yes, ma'am. - Does your son?
No.
Your son was driving, your case is dismissed.
We're finished here. Thank you very much.
My son was not driving. This court is adjourned.
I had insurance...
but I had it on my other vehicle, not on my truck.
I didn't feel nothin' until he was pounding on the back of my window.
I did not see the scooter until after the fact.
Wear your helmet when you're on a scooter
and have insurance when you're backing out of your driveway.
You know what was interesting about that, Sarah? To me.
The one thing he said, which came out sort of by accident,
- Yeah. - was that his son was in front of him.
- And there's no question that... - I can imagine a world
in which you're very uncomfortably trying to ride around your son,
but he's not an... seven or eight year old, you know,
he's a teenage boy who is five feet tall
and that would be like one of us sitting in front of him, so--
I agree that it doesn't make the most sense,
I could fathom it, however, common sense kind of kills it.
Common sense kinda kills it and so does, "We were all wearing helmets."
- Yeah. - And so does,
"I pick him up in the motor scooter,"
and this guy, for sure, lets his 12 year old son drive it.
- And there's a lot of traffic. - Yeah.
Based upon, with both things... and the Defendant had no insurance...
- They deserved each other. - Yeah.
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