1
00:00:00,433 --> 00:00:04,133
You're suing for the overage
that you paid him?

2
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,300
-Yes.
-What did he say

3
00:00:05,367 --> 00:00:07,600
when you told him
that he was overpaid?

4
00:00:07,667 --> 00:00:10,834
He said, "I get it.
I would love to do a payment plan and"--

5
00:00:10,900 --> 00:00:11,867
How much?

6
00:00:11,934 --> 00:00:13,800
I don't have an exact figure.

7
00:00:13,867 --> 00:00:15,367
I would estimate--

8
00:00:15,433 --> 00:00:17,266
Well, don't estimate.
That's what we're doing here.

9
00:00:17,667 --> 00:00:19,834
[announcer]
This is Judy Justice.

10
00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:21,900
[theme music playing]

11
00:00:37,133 --> 00:00:39,400
[announcer]
Meghan McCarthy and Ryan Fox

12
00:00:39,467 --> 00:00:43,433
are suing their former employee,
Roberto Encinas,

13
00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:49,000
for overpayment of wages, bookkeeping fees
and loss of business income.

14
00:00:49,066 --> 00:00:51,200
[Bailiff Rasco]
Court, come to order. All rise.

15
00:00:52,266 --> 00:00:53,200
Have a seat, please.

16
00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:58,767
Hello, Judge. Case number 3048
McCarthy, Fox versus Encinas.

17
00:00:59,633 --> 00:01:00,867
Mr. McCarthy?

18
00:01:00,934 --> 00:01:02,000
-Miss.
-Miss McCarthy.

19
00:01:02,867 --> 00:01:05,533
Do you run the business together?
Are you related to each other?

20
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,000
Yes. Husband and wife.

21
00:01:07,066 --> 00:01:09,133
Okay. What kind of business do you have?

22
00:01:09,233 --> 00:01:12,300
It's a production design
and set construction company.

23
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:13,066
We build sets.

24
00:01:13,133 --> 00:01:14,266
Where is it located?

25
00:01:14,333 --> 00:01:15,633
Van Nuys.

26
00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:17,467
-In California.
-California.

27
00:01:17,533 --> 00:01:19,266
How long have you owned the business?

28
00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:20,433
About seven years.

29
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,767
Tell me when you hired Mr. Encinas.

30
00:01:23,834 --> 00:01:27,934
We originally hired him in
January of 2022

31
00:01:28,266 --> 00:01:31,033
-To do what?
-Welding and fabrication.

32
00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:32,700
Did you have experience in that Mr.--?

33
00:01:32,767 --> 00:01:34,033
Oh, yeah, Twenty-five years.

34
00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:36,567
How much were you paid
when you were originally hired?

35
00:01:36,633 --> 00:01:41,066
39.75 hourly
and promised to be in the union.

36
00:01:41,133 --> 00:01:45,233
39.75 hourly
that you get paid once a week.

37
00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:46,767
Once a week, every Wednesday.

38
00:01:46,834 --> 00:01:47,834
By check or cash?

39
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:49,367
Direct deposit.

40
00:01:49,433 --> 00:01:50,300
Is that correct?

41
00:01:50,367 --> 00:01:53,033
I believe it was 39.50,
But, yes, the rest is.

42
00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:54,033
Direct deposit.

43
00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:55,900
-Yes.
-This is what your case is about.

44
00:01:55,967 --> 00:02:01,000
At some point, you determined
that you had overpaid Mr. Encinas.

45
00:02:01,066 --> 00:02:04,800
When did you discover that you were
overpaying Mr. Encinas?

46
00:02:04,867 --> 00:02:09,333
We discovered the error
on September 22, 2022.

47
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:14,066
And had you been consistently
overpaying him since January?

48
00:02:14,133 --> 00:02:15,800
No, so, It's a little bit complicated.

49
00:02:15,867 --> 00:02:18,000
We have two companies.
One is Union. One is not.

50
00:02:18,066 --> 00:02:21,834
In April of '22,
we hired him with our non-union company

51
00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:26,066
to perform a different non-union job,
and that is when the error occurred

52
00:02:26,133 --> 00:02:27,900
with that company
and that payroll company.

53
00:02:27,967 --> 00:02:30,367
He was entered into the system incorrectly

54
00:02:30,433 --> 00:02:32,767
by my bookkeeper,
who's here as our witness today.

55
00:02:32,834 --> 00:02:34,834
Okay.
It was still direct deposit.

56
00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:35,633
Correct. Yes.

57
00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:38,500
The net that was
deposited into his check

58
00:02:38,567 --> 00:02:42,433
when he was working in
the union shop was how much?

59
00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:46,300
I would estimate $1800
to $2000.

60
00:02:46,367 --> 00:02:48,433
Well, don't estimate.
That's what we're doing here.

61
00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:51,700
I don't have an exact figure
of how much he netted every week.

62
00:02:51,767 --> 00:02:53,533
It was different every week
on every job.

63
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:54,433
[Judge Judy]
Because he worked...

64
00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:55,500
Different amount of hours.

65
00:02:55,567 --> 00:02:58,033
Different hours.
So, he worked different hours,

66
00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:01,133
so the direct deposit
was different for each time.

67
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:02,033
Sure.

68
00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:05,300
So, there was really no way--

69
00:03:05,367 --> 00:03:09,033
There were no flashing red lights

70
00:03:09,100 --> 00:03:13,633
that would say to Mr. Encinas,
this pay stub is wrong,

71
00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:15,567
you know, this deposit was wrong,

72
00:03:15,633 --> 00:03:20,400
because it wasn't a consistent amount
that went in every Wednesday.

73
00:03:20,467 --> 00:03:24,433
It was according to a different amount,
depending upon how many hours worked.

74
00:03:24,533 --> 00:03:27,066
He wasn't given a physical check.

75
00:03:27,133 --> 00:03:31,300
Money was put into the bank
by a direct deposit.

76
00:03:31,367 --> 00:03:32,567
That's what you said.

77
00:03:32,633 --> 00:03:33,433
That's correct.

78
00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:34,166
Okay.

79
00:03:34,233 --> 00:03:39,000
But, if I may, it would be anywhere
from 1700 to $2000.

80
00:03:39,066 --> 00:03:43,300
The first overpayment,
he netted $4645.

81
00:03:43,367 --> 00:03:45,700
-Like, quite a jump in pay.
-[Judge Judy] Yeah.

82
00:03:45,767 --> 00:03:47,033
-Probably should have been--
-Lot of overtime.

83
00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:49,000
[Judge Judy]
Just, Just-- Just--.

84
00:03:49,066 --> 00:03:50,900
-Yes. Quite a difference,
-Quite a difference.

85
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,600
But that was going
from one job to another,

86
00:03:53,667 --> 00:03:55,800
from one company to another,

87
00:03:55,867 --> 00:03:58,333
from a union job
to a non-union...

88
00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:59,300
-[McCarthy] Same money.
-...company.

89
00:03:59,367 --> 00:04:00,700
Well, whatever.

90
00:04:00,767 --> 00:04:02,834
Okay. And, so, what you're suing for,

91
00:04:02,900 --> 00:04:06,667
you're suing for the overage
that you paid him.

92
00:04:06,734 --> 00:04:08,066
-Yes.
-And there came a time

93
00:04:08,133 --> 00:04:10,233
when you discussed
the overage with him.

94
00:04:10,300 --> 00:04:13,600
And what did he say
when you told him that he was overpaid?

95
00:04:13,667 --> 00:04:15,767
And when did you tell him
that he was overpaid?

96
00:04:15,834 --> 00:04:18,600
We told him September--
the day we discovered the error--

97
00:04:18,667 --> 00:04:22,000
September 22
and it was very amicable at first.

98
00:04:22,066 --> 00:04:23,367
We apologized for the error.

99
00:04:23,433 --> 00:04:26,333
We wanted to work out a payment plan
with him and he agreed.

100
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,834
He said, "I get it.
I would love to do a payment plan."

101
00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:32,233
And I believed him because we had
a good working relationship.

102
00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:36,133
And did you, in fact, draw up
a payment plan that you both signed?

103
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,166
No, I did not.

104
00:04:37,233 --> 00:04:38,767
Okay, unusual case for me.

105
00:04:38,834 --> 00:04:44,100
I really am unfamiliar
with the law on overpayment.

106
00:04:44,166 --> 00:04:48,467
Sarah, could you look up for me
the California law

107
00:04:48,533 --> 00:04:54,333
on when an employee
is overpaid by an employer.

108
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,500
How do they,
and can they, recoup it?

109
00:04:56,567 --> 00:04:59,967
Sure. So, it's
California Labor Code 221.

110
00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:04,667
The statute describes that employers
are forbidden from taking back any wages

111
00:05:04,734 --> 00:05:06,834
that have already been paid to employees

112
00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:12,700
unless there's a stipulation
that the employee can agree in writing

113
00:05:12,767 --> 00:05:15,066
to the deduction by the employer.

114
00:05:15,133 --> 00:05:17,934
So, if an employee consents to a setoff

115
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,567
or a wage deduction for any reason,
including overpayment by an employer,

116
00:05:22,633 --> 00:05:26,233
then the employer can make it
so long as it does not bring the worker

117
00:05:26,333 --> 00:05:31,133
below the minimum wage or the deduction
does not impact the worker's final wages.

118
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,700
But it has to be in a writing.

119
00:05:32,767 --> 00:05:34,633
Okay, So you don't have a writing?

120
00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:39,433
Well, we have in an email
where he did agree to a payment plan.

121
00:05:39,533 --> 00:05:40,667
We never formally--

122
00:05:40,734 --> 00:05:43,834
I didn't have my attorney
draft up a formal agreement, no.

123
00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:47,433
You don't have an agreement,
one that he agreed to.

124
00:05:47,633 --> 00:05:50,633
But you started taking money
out of his pay, correct?

125
00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:52,867
Um, with his knowledge.
A small percentage.

126
00:05:52,934 --> 00:05:56,633
Doesn't matter. You started taking money
out of his pay when?

127
00:05:56,700 --> 00:05:59,400
He was working for us at the time
when we caught the error.

128
00:05:59,467 --> 00:06:02,934
-[Judge Judy] Oh, in September,
-The third week of September.

129
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,000
And at that time, how much do you
allege that he was overpaid?

130
00:06:07,066 --> 00:06:10,900
$6595.41

131
00:06:10,967 --> 00:06:13,633
And what did you start
to take out of his pay?

132
00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:17,266
It was $276 that first time.

133
00:06:17,333 --> 00:06:18,934
Where did you come up with that number?

134
00:06:19,033 --> 00:06:21,934
I would have to refer
to my bookkeeper, Danny.

135
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,900
I don't exactly remember. it says,
"Seven hours"-- "Less seven hours."

136
00:06:25,967 --> 00:06:27,567
It wasn't his full paycheck.

137
00:06:27,633 --> 00:06:30,367
It was a small percentage
of what he was making that week.

138
00:06:30,433 --> 00:06:31,433
You're the bookkeeper?

139
00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:32,300
Yes, ma'am.

140
00:06:32,367 --> 00:06:33,533
Could you stand up for one moment?

141
00:06:35,266 --> 00:06:36,100
What is your name?

142
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,100
Danny White.

143
00:06:37,367 --> 00:06:41,367
Mr. White, the first time
that you gave Mr. Encinas

144
00:06:41,433 --> 00:06:44,600
a direct deposit
for less than his pay,

145
00:06:44,667 --> 00:06:48,133
how much was the direct deposit for?

146
00:06:48,233 --> 00:06:50,900
I don't have the total amount
of what it was for.

147
00:06:50,967 --> 00:06:53,333
He would have been making
around 1800,

148
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,567
and I took 296.

149
00:06:55,633 --> 00:06:57,667
With his knowledge.
We informed him, obviously.

150
00:06:57,734 --> 00:07:00,100
I don't care what you-- I don't care
what you informed him about.

151
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:01,934
You understood what the law is.

152
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,400
I'm sure that you must have spoken
to an attorney also, did you not?

153
00:07:05,867 --> 00:07:07,066
-I...
-No.

154
00:07:07,133 --> 00:07:07,900
...don't believe--
No.

155
00:07:07,967 --> 00:07:09,800
You should have
because where you live

156
00:07:09,867 --> 00:07:13,300
you can't just take money out of
somebody's salary if you overpay them.

157
00:07:13,367 --> 00:07:17,367
How many deductions did you make
from his pay before he left?

158
00:07:17,433 --> 00:07:19,066
-Two.
-And then he left.

159
00:07:19,133 --> 00:07:20,166
The job ended.

160
00:07:20,233 --> 00:07:21,834
Well, he had been working
for you for a while.

161
00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:24,500
So, the job ended.
Did you fire him?

162
00:07:27,233 --> 00:07:29,500
-The job was over and so was he.
-Correct.

163
00:07:29,567 --> 00:07:31,300
So, he didn't leave you?

164
00:07:31,367 --> 00:07:34,233
According to what you just told me
he didn't leave you.

165
00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:36,200
You said, "Goodbye.
The job's over."

166
00:07:36,266 --> 00:07:37,400
[announcer]
And later today...

167
00:07:37,467 --> 00:07:38,500
Without permission,

168
00:07:38,567 --> 00:07:41,567
you got into somebody else's
golf cart and moved it.

169
00:07:41,633 --> 00:07:44,266
And within ten minutes,
his car is damaged.

170
00:07:47,934 --> 00:07:50,567
[theme music playing]

171
00:07:54,467 --> 00:07:56,834
Megan McCarthy and Ryan Fox

172
00:07:56,900 --> 00:08:00,433
claim their former employee,
Roberto Encinas,

173
00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:04,433
is refusing to pay back the wages
they overpaid him.

174
00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:06,166
Well, he had been working
for you for a while.

175
00:08:06,233 --> 00:08:07,834
So the job ended.

176
00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:08,867
Did you fire him?

177
00:08:08,934 --> 00:08:10,300
-Nope.
-You just said--

178
00:08:10,367 --> 00:08:11,867
The job was complete.

179
00:08:11,934 --> 00:08:13,800
We did the build
and we sent it to the client.

180
00:08:13,867 --> 00:08:15,000
And then that job was over.

181
00:08:15,066 --> 00:08:15,734
So...

182
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,133
Well, I know, but he had been working
for you January and February and March,

183
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,000
April, May. June, July, August, September,
I'm sure on different jobs.

184
00:08:23,066 --> 00:08:24,200
Would that be a fair statement?

185
00:08:24,266 --> 00:08:25,567
He worked on different jobs.

186
00:08:25,633 --> 00:08:29,734
But in September, when this overpayment
was noticed, the job was over.

187
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,166
-And so was he.
-Correct.

188
00:08:31,233 --> 00:08:33,066
So he didn't leave you?

189
00:08:33,133 --> 00:08:35,900
According to what you just told me
he didn't leave you.

190
00:08:35,967 --> 00:08:37,767
You said, "Goodbye.
The job's over."

191
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,834
Yeah, correct. I had every intention
of working with him again.

192
00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:43,233
We had a good working relationship.

193
00:08:43,300 --> 00:08:45,834
I thought we were going to be able
to work out a payment plan

194
00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:47,533
and figure it out together.

195
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,800
Okay. Well, sorry, but you can't.

196
00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:51,700
Thank you, Mr. White.

197
00:08:51,767 --> 00:08:55,867
Okay. You have a whole bunch of reasons
why you shouldn't owe them the money.

198
00:08:55,934 --> 00:09:00,767
One of them is that they were supposed to
get you into a union shop, and you didn't.

199
00:09:00,834 --> 00:09:02,100
So, that's why you don't owe them money.

200
00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:04,500
Bottom line is the statute protects you.

201
00:09:04,567 --> 00:09:08,033
But one of the problems that I see
when you have a direct deposit,

202
00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:10,867
your problem is that his,
according to you,

203
00:09:10,934 --> 00:09:12,600
his pay varied every week.

204
00:09:12,667 --> 00:09:14,367
Because sometimes he worked seven hours.

205
00:09:14,433 --> 00:09:17,367
Sometimes he worked 15 hours,
and, so, his pay would vary,

206
00:09:17,433 --> 00:09:20,500
depending upon how much
it was billed for that week.

207
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,934
Well, it depends upon how carefully
someone reviews their direct deposit.

208
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,333
You know, if you view your direct deposit
and you have money coming in

209
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,900
to a checking account and going out
you don't watch it that carefully

210
00:09:33,967 --> 00:09:36,767
over a relatively short period of time

211
00:09:36,834 --> 00:09:39,433
because it was a relatively
short period of time,

212
00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:44,000
and the law protects Mr. Encinas
from you recouping that money

213
00:09:44,066 --> 00:09:46,000
unless he agrees to it.

214
00:09:46,066 --> 00:09:47,734
And the agreement has to be in writing.

215
00:09:47,834 --> 00:09:50,934
Is that what you just told me
the law is in California?

216
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,033
That is the labor code 221.

217
00:09:53,433 --> 00:09:57,333
Yeah, I'm not particularly sympathetic
with you, Miss McCarthy,

218
00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,233
because under the circumstances,

219
00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:03,200
if you had given him a check,
if your bookkeeper handed him a check,

220
00:10:03,266 --> 00:10:07,533
and he used to getting $2000, and,
then, all of a sudden, he changed jobs

221
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,133
and he was getting $4000,

222
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,400
he would say, "Oh, my goodness!"

223
00:10:11,467 --> 00:10:16,600
but I can understand
how you can miss that for a month or two.

224
00:10:16,667 --> 00:10:19,266
And not notice that
in your checking account,

225
00:10:19,333 --> 00:10:21,934
and that's why the law
is there to protect him.

226
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,500
And it does.
It protects him from your lawsuit.

227
00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:25,734
We're done. Thank you very much.

228
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:26,800
Your case is dismissed.

229
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,300
[Bailiff Rasco]
This court is adjourned.

230
00:10:31,066 --> 00:10:34,533
I'm a little disappointed--
very disappointed, actually.

231
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,433
They made a mistake.

232
00:10:35,533 --> 00:10:38,200
I thought that I had done
my homework and looked it up,

233
00:10:38,266 --> 00:10:41,700
and whatever I read said that
he owed me the money back.

234
00:10:41,767 --> 00:10:45,533
Because I did all the hours that
they put down on the paperwork.

235
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,400
No, I think it was stealing

236
00:10:47,467 --> 00:10:50,567
after six months of him
ignoring my phone calls

237
00:10:50,633 --> 00:10:53,800
and not replying and saying
he was going to make payments

238
00:10:53,867 --> 00:10:54,800
and he just wouldn't.

239
00:10:55,467 --> 00:10:56,600
Yeah. It felt like it was stealing.

240
00:10:56,667 --> 00:10:57,767
I did not get free money.

241
00:10:57,834 --> 00:11:00,800
Yeah. If you're giving money
that isn't yours, give it back.

242
00:11:02,967 --> 00:11:05,633
The statute is meant to protect
the employee

243
00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:07,600
from the employers
removing money

244
00:11:07,667 --> 00:11:11,600
for things like insurance
or tax deductions.

245
00:11:11,667 --> 00:11:14,834
So that's why there needs to be a signed
writing to say I'm opting in to insurance

246
00:11:14,934 --> 00:11:18,800
or, you know, I'm going to file
my own taxes, all of that minutia

247
00:11:18,867 --> 00:11:20,200
that you have to deal with with employers.

248
00:11:20,266 --> 00:11:25,900
But it does say that if you agree in
writing to a deduction as the employee...

249
00:11:25,967 --> 00:11:26,867
As a clawback.

250
00:11:26,934 --> 00:11:31,266
...that's okay, but here, as we saw
very clearly there was no signed writing.

251
00:11:31,333 --> 00:11:34,533
But the way I read the statute
was that that had to be in writing

252
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:35,767
in order to protect the employees.

253
00:11:35,834 --> 00:11:39,133
It just looks like it can't be
a unilateral determination

254
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,567
-of how much you're going to take out.
-Sure.

255
00:11:40,633 --> 00:11:43,100
Also, I found interesting,
and I really believe this,

256
00:11:43,166 --> 00:11:45,967
because somebody who gets direct deposits
from other things,

257
00:11:46,033 --> 00:11:49,600
I don't look every week to see
whether the direct deposit has been made.

258
00:11:49,667 --> 00:11:52,467
I'll call once a month
or I'll wait and get my statement.

259
00:11:52,533 --> 00:11:57,133
But what she said was, and, you know,
math is not our strong suit,

260
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,133
-she was suing for $6000,
-Mm-hmm.

261
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,333
and what she said was he was overpaid
by $2000 a paycheck.

262
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,000
which means there were
only three paychecks

263
00:12:07,066 --> 00:12:09,000
that he would have been overpaid,

264
00:12:09,066 --> 00:12:13,333
which is really very easy to miss,
but very easy to spend.

265
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,967
If you look on your phone
and you see

266
00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:16,433
-you have so much money in your bank
-Sure.

267
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:18,433
and you spend it,
what are you supposed to do?

268
00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:20,600
But he had a good explanation for why.

269
00:12:20,667 --> 00:12:22,767
It wasn't that far off from his usual.

270
00:12:22,834 --> 00:12:27,233
He had put in extra time on his time cards
for overtime and things of that nature.

271
00:12:27,300 --> 00:12:29,300
So I agree with you that three payments

272
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,867
for a little bit more
than what you were used to,

273
00:12:31,934 --> 00:12:33,900
I don't think it would
have raised a red flag.

274
00:12:33,967 --> 00:12:35,166
Because he may not have looked.

275
00:12:35,266 --> 00:12:36,500
-Sure.
-It was interesting

276
00:12:36,567 --> 00:12:39,734
because I didn't get from the papers
that they let him go.

277
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:40,667
I didn't either.

278
00:12:40,767 --> 00:12:45,900
I thought that he just stopped
working from reading the papers

279
00:12:45,967 --> 00:12:48,266
because they started to
take money out of his check.

280
00:12:48,367 --> 00:12:51,367
And then she acknowledged that,
well, the job ended.

281
00:12:51,433 --> 00:12:53,367
Well, many jobs that he had ended

282
00:12:53,433 --> 00:12:56,633
because they have jobs
since January, eight months.

283
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:59,533
-I picked up on that.
-After this one, they let him go.

284
00:12:59,934 --> 00:13:01,900
Follow the rules
if you want to get your money back.

285
00:13:02,834 --> 00:13:05,667
Case number 3050.
Cockrell versus McMurray.

286
00:13:05,734 --> 00:13:07,266
All parties, please step forward.

287
00:13:07,333 --> 00:13:08,567
[announcer]
Justin Cockrell

288
00:13:08,633 --> 00:13:12,367
is suing his friend,
James McMurray III,

289
00:13:12,433 --> 00:13:15,900
for damage after a golf cart
hit his car.

290
00:13:15,967 --> 00:13:17,233
Mr. Cockrel,
it is your claim

291
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:20,967
that owing to the defendant's negligence,
your car was dented.

292
00:13:21,033 --> 00:13:21,767
Yes, ma'am.

293
00:13:21,834 --> 00:13:23,800
Can I see a picture
of the dent on your car?

294
00:13:23,867 --> 00:13:24,800
Yes.

295
00:13:26,467 --> 00:13:27,367
[indistinct]

296
00:13:32,567 --> 00:13:34,166
Yeah, that's a serious dent.

297
00:13:34,233 --> 00:13:37,633
Okay, Let me understand
the theory of your case.

298
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,367
Mr. McMurray is a friend of yours.

299
00:13:39,433 --> 00:13:41,667
I assume you were there as well that day.

300
00:13:41,734 --> 00:13:44,600
-Yes, ma'am.
-You were all having a pleasant afternoon

301
00:13:44,667 --> 00:13:46,066
having a couple of drinks.

302
00:13:46,133 --> 00:13:47,834
Were you watching a sporting event?

303
00:13:47,934 --> 00:13:48,800
[Cockrell]
We were watching golf.

304
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:50,633
At whose house were you watching?

305
00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:51,667
At Bubba's house.

306
00:13:51,734 --> 00:13:53,300
-Your house?
-Yes, ma'am.

307
00:13:53,367 --> 00:13:55,400
-How many people had golf carts?
-Two.

308
00:13:55,467 --> 00:13:57,266
I drove my car over there.

309
00:13:57,333 --> 00:14:01,600
Everybody else lives in that neighborhood,
so, they'll drive their golf carts.

310
00:14:01,667 --> 00:14:04,133
And, Mr. McMurray,
what time did you get to the event?

311
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,233
I got there around
2:30 that afternoon.

312
00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:09,433
-And did you bring your golf cart?
-I sure did.

313
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:11,700
You drove your golf cart.
On what date was this?

314
00:14:11,767 --> 00:14:12,867
May 21.

315
00:14:12,934 --> 00:14:16,433
So, let me see if I've got
the alleged facts right.

316
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:19,467
You wanted to leave
at some point.

317
00:14:19,533 --> 00:14:23,300
You went outside and found
that somebody's golf cart

318
00:14:23,367 --> 00:14:25,066
was blocking your golf cart.

319
00:14:25,133 --> 00:14:26,100
That's correct, Your Honor.

320
00:14:26,166 --> 00:14:27,133
In the driveway.

321
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,233
Yes, that is correct.

322
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:30,934
The keys, I assume,
were in the golf cart.

323
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,767
-That's correct, Your Honor.
-The one that was blocking your golf cart.

324
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,133
So, you moved that golf cart
in order to get your car out.

325
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,066
That's correct.

326
00:14:40,133 --> 00:14:44,567
Mr. Cockrell says that
when you moved that golf cart,

327
00:14:44,633 --> 00:14:50,000
you moved it and left it negligently
so that golf cart

328
00:14:50,066 --> 00:14:54,400
rolled down the driveway
and hit his car

329
00:14:54,467 --> 00:14:55,834
causing this damage.

330
00:14:58,367 --> 00:15:01,233
I can't go grocery shopping
anymore

331
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:05,467
unless that shopping cart
goes where it's supposed to be

332
00:15:05,533 --> 00:15:08,200
'cause somebody is around,
who's going to take my picture

333
00:15:08,266 --> 00:15:11,300
leaving that cart around
and it's going to humiliate me.

334
00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:16,333
[theme music playing]

335
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:22,767
[announcer]
Justin Cockerel

336
00:15:22,834 --> 00:15:26,200
claims his friend,
James McMurray III,

337
00:15:26,266 --> 00:15:30,600
owes for car damage
after a golf cart rolled into his vehicle.

338
00:15:30,667 --> 00:15:32,300
Is that the theory of your case?

339
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,433
That's correct. Yes, ma'am.

340
00:15:33,533 --> 00:15:36,033
The golf carts were
actually in the garage.

341
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:38,400
I had parked parallel to the garage,

342
00:15:38,467 --> 00:15:41,567
so, when the cart rolled,
it rolled out of the garage...

343
00:15:42,567 --> 00:15:43,633
...and into the side of my car.

344
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:47,133
Okay. And, you, Mr. McMurray,
don't deny the fact

345
00:15:47,233 --> 00:15:49,667
that you moved somebody else's golf cart.

346
00:15:49,734 --> 00:15:50,500
That's correct.

347
00:15:50,567 --> 00:15:55,266
And you don't deny that
that golf cart that you moved

348
00:15:55,333 --> 00:15:57,800
caused the damage to his car.

349
00:15:57,867 --> 00:16:01,734
When I got back to the scene,
the cart had hit the car.

350
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,600
So those are
acknowledged. facts.

351
00:16:03,667 --> 00:16:05,467
You move the golf cart.

352
00:16:05,567 --> 00:16:08,967
As far as we know, you were the last
person that touched that golf cart.

353
00:16:09,033 --> 00:16:11,934
That golf cart caused this damage.

354
00:16:12,633 --> 00:16:14,100
And he wants you to be responsible.

355
00:16:14,433 --> 00:16:19,333
So, now, with those agreed facts,
which really makes my life so much easier,

356
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,600
I want you to tell me
why it's not your fault.

357
00:16:23,066 --> 00:16:25,533
Your Honor, when I moved the golf cart,

358
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,567
it was blocking my cart,
so, I moved it to the left of mine.

359
00:16:29,633 --> 00:16:34,467
So, when I put the brake on the golf cart
and walked behind the golf cart

360
00:16:34,533 --> 00:16:37,333
to get back to my cart
that was right next to it,

361
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,667
and I backed up,
you know, took my time,

362
00:16:39,734 --> 00:16:42,133
making sure I didn't
hit the car in my golf cart,

363
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,533
I turned around
and I headed to my house.

364
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:45,600
About what time was that?

365
00:16:45,667 --> 00:16:48,867
I've probably been there 45 minutes,
so, 3:15.

366
00:16:48,934 --> 00:16:50,300
And you went home to do what?

367
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,633
I went to go home
to take care of my dog.

368
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:54,000
What did you have to do
to take care of?

369
00:16:54,066 --> 00:16:56,300
I needed to let him outside
to use the restroom.

370
00:16:56,367 --> 00:16:57,934
-Did you?
-Yes, ma'am.

371
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,900
And then what did you do then?
You came back to the house.

372
00:16:59,967 --> 00:17:01,200
-Then I came back.
-Back to the house.

373
00:17:01,266 --> 00:17:04,400
-Yes.
-Would you say you were gone ten minutes?

374
00:17:04,467 --> 00:17:06,600
-Yes,
-So, now you're gone ten minutes.

375
00:17:06,667 --> 00:17:09,900
Just let the dog out and now you're gone
ten minutes and you come out

376
00:17:09,967 --> 00:17:13,400
and you find that the golf cart
that you moved,

377
00:17:13,467 --> 00:17:15,200
without anybody's permission.
by the way,

378
00:17:15,266 --> 00:17:17,166
you didn't ask
the owner of that golf cart--

379
00:17:17,233 --> 00:17:19,000
No, I did not.
The keys were in it.

380
00:17:19,066 --> 00:17:21,033
Well, if the keys are in a car, sir,

381
00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:23,600
and you pull up
in front of the Piggly Wiggly,

382
00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:26,867
and the keys are in a car,
but it doesn't belong to you,

383
00:17:26,934 --> 00:17:31,333
but the car is sitting right where
you want to put your car

384
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,400
to put your groceries in,

385
00:17:33,467 --> 00:17:36,934
and just because the keys are in the car
doesn't mean you can drive it, right?

386
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,867
-Right.
-So, without permission,

387
00:17:38,934 --> 00:17:41,934
you got into somebody else's
golf cart and moved it,

388
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,700
and within ten minutes his car is damaged.

389
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,500
-Correct.
-So, give me a theory, sir,

390
00:17:47,567 --> 00:17:51,467
of what happened
that you're not responsible for.

391
00:17:51,533 --> 00:17:54,300
Like I said earlier,
Judge, I moved the cart,

392
00:17:54,367 --> 00:17:57,433
parked it and I walked behind that cart.

393
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:00,700
If this cart is what they're alleging
rolled back on its own,

394
00:18:00,767 --> 00:18:04,533
then wouldn't it have hit me when
I walked behind it, getting into my cart.

395
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,433
Maybe it needed a nudge from the wind.

396
00:18:07,934 --> 00:18:09,667
Maybe it needed something else.

397
00:18:09,734 --> 00:18:13,300
But that's not the kind
of intervening act, sir,

398
00:18:13,367 --> 00:18:14,600
that gets you off the hook.

399
00:18:14,667 --> 00:18:15,967
-Well--
-Doesn't get you off the hook.

400
00:18:16,033 --> 00:18:18,133
-Okay--
-I'm going to give you an example--

401
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,767
My favorite example.

402
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:22,233
Many years ago, I tried a case

403
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:26,433
that changed my life
to a minute degree forever.

404
00:18:26,934 --> 00:18:30,834
You know, you go grocery shopping,
you go to big stores

405
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:35,000
And they always have a place
where you put the grocery cart

406
00:18:35,066 --> 00:18:37,533
after you finish loading your car, right?

407
00:18:37,967 --> 00:18:43,300
Put them here. So, This particular case
was about a woman who went shopping

408
00:18:43,367 --> 00:18:47,667
and she had a load of groceries
and she unloaded the groceries in her car

409
00:18:47,734 --> 00:18:50,834
and then do what some
irresponsible people do.

410
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,500
They just leave the cart there.

411
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:57,233
Cart can roll, cart could
be touched, whatever.

412
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:02,233
And the cart rolled into another car
and caused damage.

413
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:07,367
The defendant's defense
to that case was It wasn't her,

414
00:19:07,433 --> 00:19:10,000
it was wind, which was an act of God.

415
00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:15,233
Wind came and blew the shopping cart
into the plaintiff's car.

416
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:17,633
Well, the wind isn't an intervening act

417
00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:22,033
because if they shopping cart
had been put into its place--

418
00:19:22,734 --> 00:19:26,300
Wind, rain, frogs, hail--

419
00:19:26,367 --> 00:19:29,066
nothing would have happened
to the plaintiff's car.

420
00:19:29,533 --> 00:19:30,900
-We understand each other?
-We do.

421
00:19:30,967 --> 00:19:33,667
That's actually not
the punchline of this story

422
00:19:33,734 --> 00:19:36,633
'cause, after all, we're just dealing
with a dented car here.

423
00:19:36,734 --> 00:19:38,700
After that case aired,

424
00:19:38,767 --> 00:19:42,066
because I was doing it
in the television courtroom,

425
00:19:42,133 --> 00:19:46,000
I was shopping in Publix,
in Florida,

426
00:19:46,066 --> 00:19:51,367
and I unloaded my groceries
in the trunk of my car.

427
00:19:51,433 --> 00:19:54,033
I was going to leave
the shopping cart there.

428
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:59,900
And three women got out of a car together
who had clearly seen that episode

429
00:19:59,967 --> 00:20:05,433
and stood there with their arms crossed,
waiting to see if I was going to put

430
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:08,433
the shopping cart back where it belonged.

431
00:20:09,667 --> 00:20:12,667
So, when I say that case
changed my life forever,

432
00:20:12,734 --> 00:20:15,934
I can't go grocery shopping anymore,
unless--

433
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,133
I don't care where it is--
it could be twenty blocks away,

434
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,300
but that shopping cart goes
where it's supposed to be

435
00:20:23,367 --> 00:20:26,033
'cause somebody is around
who's going to take my picture

436
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:29,433
leaving that the cart around
and it's going to humiliate me.

437
00:20:29,533 --> 00:20:32,533
So, what I'm saying to you is,
it's your fault.

438
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,734
It wasn't my golf cart.
It wasn't my house.

439
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,100
It wasn't--
It was-- Just second.

440
00:20:36,166 --> 00:20:40,567
It wasn't your golf cart,
which means you shouldn't have touched it.

441
00:20:40,633 --> 00:20:43,467
Which means if you wanted to go home
and let your dog out,

442
00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:46,400
which you probably
should have done a half-hour before,

443
00:20:46,467 --> 00:20:49,600
then you go inside and say--
because you know all these people--

444
00:20:49,667 --> 00:20:51,567
"Whose golf cart is that?
It's blocking me in.

445
00:20:51,633 --> 00:20:52,700
Can you move it?

446
00:20:52,767 --> 00:20:54,834
That's easy.
You would do that with a car.

447
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:59,000
You just took it upon yourself
to go to touch somebody else's property

448
00:20:59,066 --> 00:21:00,834
and within a millisecond--

449
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,333
Because nobody
else came out and touched that car.

450
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,633
You were the last person
who touched that golf cart. You were.

451
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:09,133
It caused this damage.

452
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,800
You know, don't make excuses.
Accept responsibility.

453
00:21:11,867 --> 00:21:14,834
You shouldn't have done it, whether
you forgot to put the brake on it or not.

454
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:17,734
Because I've driven golf carts.
We have them around.

455
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:18,800
And sometimes I forget.

456
00:21:18,867 --> 00:21:20,934
It's just turn it on
and then you hit the brake

457
00:21:21,033 --> 00:21:22,533
and there are two breaks.

458
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,333
So, I never park it like this.

459
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:30,200
If anything, I park it like this
against a tree so it can't go anyplace.

460
00:21:30,266 --> 00:21:31,467
It's your fault.

461
00:21:31,533 --> 00:21:33,734
-Well, that brings up--
-May I have-- It's your fault.

462
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,767
May I have the estimate
to fix your car, please?

463
00:21:36,834 --> 00:21:38,867
-Yes.
-What year car is this BMW?

464
00:21:38,934 --> 00:21:40,200
It's a 2011.

465
00:21:40,266 --> 00:21:41,934
Judge, can I ask you a question?

466
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:44,000
No, I don't answer questions.

467
00:21:44,066 --> 00:21:46,000
That's one of the delights of this job.

468
00:21:46,066 --> 00:21:47,233
I ask questions.

469
00:21:47,734 --> 00:21:49,033
I don't answer questions.

470
00:21:49,633 --> 00:21:52,133
Nice. 1482.
Judgment for the plaintiff.

471
00:21:52,667 --> 00:21:53,734
We're done. Thank you.

472
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,967
[Bailiff Rasco]
This court is adjourned.

473
00:21:58,066 --> 00:21:59,066
It wasn't my golf cart.

474
00:21:59,133 --> 00:22:00,066
I wasn't driving.

475
00:22:00,133 --> 00:22:04,500
Bubba had actually gone outside
shortly after Dad left

476
00:22:04,567 --> 00:22:07,266
and he saw it happen.

477
00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:09,700
Whenever I left,
I got out of that cart,

478
00:22:09,767 --> 00:22:11,867
walked behind it,
so wouldn't it have hit me?

479
00:22:11,934 --> 00:22:14,667
I think if he'd done the right thing,
owned up to it at the beginning

480
00:22:14,734 --> 00:22:17,133
and said,
"Yeah, let's work it out," but--

481
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,133
And it's been a little hairy.

482
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,867
We're probably going to work--
work it out.

483
00:22:19,934 --> 00:22:21,600
We'll be all right
because we'll get past it.

484
00:22:21,667 --> 00:22:22,967
I told him that
from the beginning,

485
00:22:23,033 --> 00:22:24,400
I said,
"Hey, no matter what happens,

486
00:22:24,467 --> 00:22:27,000
you know, if you pay me
or not or whatever,

487
00:22:27,066 --> 00:22:28,433
I'm not going to let that
come in between."

488
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:31,433
We've been friends fifteen years,
but I was like, dude--

489
00:22:33,734 --> 00:22:36,867
You know, I have been noticing
that whenever we go to Publix together,

490
00:22:36,934 --> 00:22:41,133
you do park extremely close
to the cart return now.

491
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:41,867
So...

492
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:43,500
Not to the-- Not to the entrance.

493
00:22:43,567 --> 00:22:46,233
No, no, no. The cart return
is the place to be.

494
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,567
-Now you know why.
-Now I know why.

495
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:51,867
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496
00:22:51,934 --> 00:22:54,233
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497
00:22:58,967 --> 00:23:01,033
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