It is your claim that the property was a mess.
Yes.
I don't think it needed to be cleaned. It had been cleaned.
There was dirt on the floor. There was bugs on the floor.
There was black mold.
I paid to have it cleaned.
The refrigerator was disgusting.
The stove was disgusting.
-It's disgusting. -It was clean.
I'm telling you that the place was disgusting.
[narrator] This is Judy Justice.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Audrianna Alanzio and Tanner Kruegel
are suing their former landlord, Faith Schmidt,
for a security deposit and emotional distress.
[Kevin] Court come to order. All rise.
[Judy] Have a seat, please.
Case number 3121, Alanzio, Kruegel versus Schmidt.
-Thank you. -You're welcome.
-[Judy] Tell me your last name. -Kruegel.
-This is your... -Fiancé.
[Judy] The two of you were moving from one state to another.
-Correct. -[Judy] You were moving
with what other family members?
Our four children.
And you were moving from what state to what state?
Uh, Wisconsin to Minnesota.
-[Judy] Whose mother lives in Minnesota? -Mine does.
-[Judy] That's your mom? -[Tanner] Yes.
[Judy] So you needed a place to live?
Yup.
-Yup? -[Tanner] Yes.
-Sorry. -Perfect.
Your mother found a place, or did you?
I found the place initially.
-[Judy] You found the place. -Yes.
And your mother went to do a walkthrough
to see if it was suitable for you and your four children.
-Correct. -[Judy] And found the defendant's--
Is it a home?
It's a single family home.
That you own. When did you purchase it?
I believe I purchased it a month before I showed it to them.
So no one had lived in it yet.
[Judy] And when your mom looked at the place, it needed a good cleanup.
And you acknowledge that, Ms. Schmidt, that it needed a good cleanup.
-I do not. -[Judy] Mm.
Well, you sort of do in your answer.
So that, I want you to rethink what you just said to me.
When you showed it to Mr. Kruegel's mother,
it needed a cleanup.
You have to remember what you wrote in your answer.
So if you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory.
I don't think it needed to be cleaned, it had been cleaned.
[Judy] Hm. I have it in your answer, but I'll get to it in a minute.
So you loaded your kids,
I assume you took a U-Haul or something of the like,
-and you agreed to rent the property. -Yes.
[Judy] And you sent a month's security and a month's rent?
-Yes. -In total how much money did you send?
Three thousand dollars.
-[Judy] Which you received and deposited. -Correct.
[Judy] What date did you send the money?
October 30th.
I have the receipts for that as well.
[Judy] Yeah, she acknowledges she took it.
Now, up until that time, you had not signed a lease.
-Correct. -[Judy] And you acknowledge that?
-Correct. -[Judy] You hadn't--
They had not signed the lease.
When you got there, it is your claim that the property was a mess.
Yes.
[Judy] And you actually did not move into the property
and want your security and your rent back.
-Correct. -[Judy] That's what the case is about.
And I'm not exactly sure of what your defense is,
but you'll tell me.
Is your defense that they had no lease,
or that they had a lease that they broke?
What is your defense?
Um, so we had an entire interaction.
They actually did move into the property.
They moved their belongings into the property.
Did you change the locks on the doors?
-I did not. -[Judy] At any time?
No.
They're still the same locks that they were before.
You arrived on the property on what date?
November 13th.
Still no lease?
Correct. She mailed us the lease,
um, and then we didn't have enough time to sign it and mail it back to her.
And so we have in text message, she's saying we can just bring it with us.
But we didn't want to sign it
-until we saw it. -[Judy] Got it.
So you got there on the 13th.
I'd like you to describe what it looked like on the 13th.
Um, well, it was dark, so it was really hard to see anything.
When we pulled up, the guys pulled the horse trailer in the back.
So the guys were unloading that
while Linda, myself and my brother and the children
started walking through the home.
Seeing where we were gonna put everything,
and that's when we started noticing, you know, it was just disgusting.
-[Judy] Well, tell me. -[Audrianna] There was dirt on the floor.
There was bugs on the floor, there was black mold.
There was water damage in the walls
-that she said that-- -[Judy] Did you take any photographs?
I have a lot of photographs.
-[Judy] May I see them, please? -Yes.
And this was the day you were moving in your things?
-[Audrianna] Correct. -Or the next day?
The day we were starting to move in.
-And then once we started to notice-- -[Judy] Just a second-- Just a second.
Some of these I'll ask you to address, some I won't.
There's a lot of water damage.
Kevin, would you show these photographs to Ms. Schmidt, please?
I'll take them back now.
Ms. Schmidt, from whom did you purchase this house?
Edina Realty.
Was it a person or was the house foreclosed?
It was a person.
[Judy] And how much did you pay for it?
I don't recall the exact price.
Give me a ballpark figure.
I would prefer not to disclose.
[Judy] I don't care what you prefer. Give me a figure.
Around $100,000.
What do you mean around $100,000?
What kind of work do you do?
I'm a landlord.
I'm a business owner. I have rental properties.
[Judy] Okay, so that's what you do as a living.
-Yes, that is... -[Judy] Okay.
...a recent business that I've started.
Great. If it's a recent business, how many homes do you have?
I have four.
[Judy] Is this the last one that you purchased?
[Faith] Yes.
[Judy] How much did you pay for it?
I believe it was 100,000-something.
It was between 100,000 and 110,000.
Yes.
I have a picture from the Zillow ad that tells the date
that she purchased the home and how much she purchased it for.
I also have a text message of her acknowledging the fact
that her dad and the kids that cleaned the house
said it was not clean enough
-the day before. -[Judy] Just a second.
-I'm not there yet. -[Audrianna] Okay, sorry.
Well, the estimate for the house is $94,000--
It sold for $94,000, is that right?
-I believe so. -[Judy] Okay.
Now, in your answer to their request--
Which is their request for return of their deposit.
They were asking for a lot of other stuff, but it's for the return of their deposit.
You say, "Since I had not even received the signed lease back yet,
they were trespassing."
That's what you wrote in your answer.
-Um, so they-- -[Judy] "I had the unit
cleaned that same day.
The next night, on November 13th, I met them, as well as the other adults."
Who cleaned the unit the same day on the 13th?
Um, so I paid one of my employees
to clean the unit previously, prior.
Um, I reached out after Linda entered the property--
[Judy] No, no, no, no, no.
Pay careful attention to my question.
I'm giving you a backstory.
I don't want a backstory.
I want you to understand this.
These two people traveled from one state to another with four children.
They wanted a place to live.
They needed a place to live.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Audrianna Alanzio and Tanner Kruegel
claim their former landlord, Faith Schmidt,
refuses to return their security deposit.
Faith is countersuing for loss of income and harassment.
Now, you said the house was clean.
Clearly, this is not a recently cleaned house.
I paid to have it cleaned
and then because Linda had complained, I--
[Judy] You would acknowledge that these pictures
-that I showed you-- -Before Tanner--
Just a second, you don't talk over me.
You do acknowledge that this house, as the photographs indicate--
Because they were only there for a day.
The dead bugs, the black mold,
do not indicate a recently cleaned property.
Yes, ma'am, may I tell you more?
First, I'm asking you a question.
You looked at the photographs and you have to acknowledge
that these photographs do not reflect a recently cleaned property
-ready for people to move into. -Yes, ma'am.
[Judy] Okay, so when they got there, the place was not clean.
When they arrived there with their four children,
-the place-- -It was clean.
These pictures were not taken by them,
they were taken by Linda.
Linda entered the premises before they were even there.
-She was not supposed to be there. -[Judy] On what date-- Just a second.
On the 12th. They did not arrive until the 13th.
Linda took these photos. Linda reached out to me.
Linda said the property was not clean.
I have text messages that I hired
someone to go over there and clean it afterwards.
Which he cleaned the stove, the air conditioner,
-the freezer and was supposed... -[Judy] Show me-- Show--
Okay, so now what you're saying is that the mother...
-[Faith] Mm-hmm. Correct. -...took these photographs.
And after she called you and said that the place is not clean...
While I was working, I was doing something else,
I immediately sent someone over there
before I had any communication with Tanner or Audrianna--
[Judy] Just-- Just a second. Fine.
I want you to understand this.
These two people traveled from one state to another
with four children ranging in age from...
Eight to, at the time, 14 months.
[Judy] They wanted a place to live.
They needed a place to live.
If what you're telling me is that this is not a fair and accurate representation
of what the place looked like when they got there...
It did not look like that when Tanner and Audrianna arrived to the premises.
It looked like that when Linda got there,
which I was notified of and immediately sent someone over to clean the premises.
-[Judy] Who? -I sent-- I hired a kid,
his name is Alex.
Is that you?
-[Faith] No. -Just a second.
-You just raised your hand! -Y--
[Judy] She said, "I immediately sent somebody over there."
I said, "Is that you?" You raised your hand.
I also sent my dad over to ensure
that the employee, he had done a good job cleaning
while I was doing something else.
He also sent me videos of him cleaning out the freezer.
Just a second. I would like to see whatever photographs you have
of what the place looked like before they got there.
Show me. You already have a complaint and you're a landlord.
You have a complaint that the place was disgusting.
Correct.
[Judy] And you have one day to clean it all up.
-Yup. -Not "yup," that's a yes.
-Yes, ma'am. -[Judy] You don't bring me
the person who cleaned it.
I assume you have photographs.
Now that you know that there's a complaint.
I assume you have photographs of what the place looked like when they arrived.
That means no.
I didn't take photographs after, no.
[Judy] Well, that's too bad.
I do have an inspection, though.
A past inspection that says there is no mold in the home
-and I have not made any alterations-- -[Judy] Just a second.
Do you have that inspection for me to see?
-[Faith] Yes, ma'am. -After--
On or about the 13th of November.
-No. -[Judy] No.
Okay. Ms. Schmidt, this is not a difficult case.
Either they had a lease or they didn't.
In your answer, you said since they didn't have a lease,
they were, in fact, trespassing.
-They had no intention to sign the lease. -[Judy] Just a--
Just a second. No, you are incorrect because that's not common sense.
Common sense would suggest that people who are traveling across state borders
with four small children need a place to live.
They sent mother-in-law to look for a place to live.
-And she said it was very nice. -[Judy] She-- Just a--
Just a second. They sent her--
I don't know what assurances they had with regard to cleaning it out.
I don't know what her level of cleanliness is,
but I know I wouldn't move into this place
after having paid somebody $3,000.
This place was disgusting, the refrigerator is disgusting,
the stove is disgusting, the bugs are disgusting,
the wood is disgusting.
It's disgusting.
Now, you want to be a slum landlord, that's your problem.
But either they have a lease or they don't have a lease.
If they don't have a lease, then they get their money back
because they didn't move in to live.
That's not difficult, sir, is it?
No, but I'd like to say something.
[Judy] Sure. Stand up and say whatever you like
and uncross your arms when you do it.
Okay, um, when she called and said that the, uh, Linda had called
to complain about the place,
so I did go up there and I met with Linda.
[Judy] Linda is mother.
-Correct. Correct. -[Judy] And?
And we talked and we went over what the problems were.
And so, as to my knowledge,
we agreed on the fix,
and I seen to it that we had a couple people come over and clean.
[Judy] Before or after lunch, sir?
Did you have it cleaned with a couple of people
before or after you and the couple of people had lunch?
I don't know what lunch has to do with it.
I don't know nothing about lunch.
[Judy] I know what lunch has to do with it.
So you knew there was a problem
and you went to the house on the 12th, according to you.
They were due there on the 13th and the place was disgusting,
you would agree with that?
Yeah, I-- I don't agree with the mold
because the city of Spring Valley has inspectors.
They come round and inspect for mold.
I'm telling you that the place was disgusting.
It was not a place where you moved into--
Dozens of properties in my life, both inexpensive and expensive,
the inexpensive ones when I moved in were clean.
-Sure. -[Judy] That's the way,
when I moved out of a property, I left it.
If your daughter wants to be in business for herself,
then she's got to learn how to be in business a good way.
-Sure. -[Judy] Okay?
You have to acknowledge she knew
that these people were coming across state lines.
They were coming across with little children,
because Linda let you know that.
I didn't-- I don't know anything about that.
[Judy] You didn't know who was moving in?
-No, it's-- It's-- It's not my-- -[Judy] Oh, just--
Did you know who was moving in?
Ms. Schmidt?
I didn't meet them personally, I met with Linda--
[Judy] That's not what I asked you.
Did Linda tell you that her son, her son's partner
and four children were moving into the house?
-Yes. -[Judy] Of course.
This is not the way you expect a house to be.
Common sense would indicate that you would then,
after your father and his crew cleaned it,
you would take photographs to show that it was not in this condition anymore.
What did they complain about in the kitchen?
Um, they complained about the stove.
[Judy] And what about the stove?
[Faith] The inside of the stove.
-[Judy] That it was filthy. -Correct.
And did you see that the inside of the stove was filthy?
Not on that day.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Audrianna Alanzio and Tanner Kruegel
are accusing their former landlord, Faith Schmidt,
of renting them an uninhabitable property.
Faith is countersuing, claiming the couple owes her for loss of income.
Now I'm coming back to you.
Either they have a lease or they don't have a lease.
We had a verbal agreement.
[Judy] No, you have to have a lease in order to keep their security deposit.
Did you have a lease?
You said they had no lease. They were trespassing,
because you told them to get out.
So then they were trespassing.
-They were on my property... -[Judy] Yes, and they--
...without permission. -[Judy] Then they--
Then they get their money back.
What the-- What is so hard about that?
Either they have a lease or they don't have a lease.
You can't say they're trespassing on your property
because at one point--
Part of the thing that they're suing about is because you went into the house
and you came out with a handgun, is that right?
-Correct. -[Judy] Correct.
And because you felt as if you needed a handgun
to diffuse the situation that was developing on the 13th.
Whatever it was, they left, they get their security deposit back
and their month's rent.
And if you want to be a big girl in a big girl's business,
you've got to do the right thing.
This is not the right thing.
Okay. Do you want to tell me, Ms. Schmidt, why you felt it necessary,
because I'm going to get rid of that part of your claim very quickly,
why you felt it necessary to come out with a gun on the 13th?
So when I went in there in an attempt to resolve the issues
that they were complaining about the night of the 13th,
I brought the walkthrough paperwork
and we were going to fill out a walkthrough
with everything that needed to be addressed.
Instead of accomplishing that, we were in--
Okay, so what room did you go into first?
I walked through the back door off the porch into the kitchen.
[Judy] What did they complain about in the kitchen?
[Faith] They complained about the cleaning.
What specifically about the cleaning?
Um, they complained about the dirt behind the fridge.
They complained about the state of the fridge.
[Judy] What was the state of the fridge?
There were stains in the back of the fridge
that were not coming off with any cleaning.
[Judy] What else?
[Faith] Um, they complained about the stove.
[Judy] And what about the stove?
Um, the inside of the stove.
-[Judy] That it was filthy. -Correct.
Okay. And did you see that the inside of the stove was filthy?
Not on that day.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
-No, I don't believe-- -[Faith] On the 13th it was not filthy,
it was cleaned by Alex.
-I had-- -[Judy] The sheet--
One of-- the stove and the fridge was very important to me that he cleaned those.
Um, we also talked about getting them new appliances
because they weren't satisfactory.
I was going above and beyond to appease them
and I told them that I would look for new appliances.
That I wouldn't be able to provide them overnight,
but that I would be looking for them and provide them with new appliances.
She has that in text.
That she was going to provide new appliances?
-[James] Yes. -Because the ones that were existing
-were unsatisfactory. -Yeah.
[Judy] They get their security deposit back.
Three thousand dollars.
Your counterclaim-- Your counterclaim is ludicrous.
"Lost income, damages due to false claims, rent, utilities and harassment."
How did they harass you?
She's reported my Facebook account, so I no longer can advertise.
So I've had to do alternative routes of advertising.
Before it never cost me anything to advertise.
Now I have to pay for advert-- advertising through the newspaper.
Um, I bought a rental sign. I've done things--
What was the harassment?
She complained about what happened to her family
when they came to this property that they were renting.
Harassment wasn't the word that I would use.
[Judy] Well, what would you use?
She's dragging my name through the mud, she's going to the local bars.
-I've heard from several-- -[Judy] Just a second.
You can't tell me rumors. If you have somebody who can testify
-that she said something about-- -My dad can testify.
-[Judy] What? -My dad can testify
because his employees are telling him...
-He can't tell me what his employees-- -...that she's tell--
Listen to me, he can't tell me what his employees are telling him.
He can tell me if they said something to him.
So what?
Did you finally find a place to live?
No, we have not.
[Judy] Since November.
-Correct. -[Judy] Where are you staying?
Right now, we're staying at my parents' house.
We had to move back to Wisconsin,
um, so we are on air mattresses in my parents' family room.
[Judy] Why were you moving?
To be closer to his family.
Anybody have a job?
He had a job-- a potential job lined up.
-[Judy] In Minnesota? -Yes. Correct, yes.
[Judy] What kind of work?
Uh, property maintenance management.
-[Judy] What are you doing now? -Nothing right now.
I start a new job in Milwaukee on Monday.
He had to turn down a really good job offer in Minnesota
-because we didn't have a solution. -[Judy] That's all.
I just asked him what he was doing now, not I would've, should've, could've.
Okay, judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $3,000.
Counterclaim, whatever it is for, I don't even know, is dismissed.
-Thank you very much. We're finished. -Thank you.
[Kevin] This court is adjourned.
I did offer them three-fourths of their deposit back.
We wanted it all back. We didn't live there.
I put forth my best effort to find them new appliances,
to hire someone to do cleaning.
I believe I went above and beyond.
We had a verbal agreement that the house was going to be in livable condition
and as you can tell by the pictures, it was not livable.
Definitely in the future, I think instead of hiring someone to clean,
I'm probably going to clean myself
and I'm going to take photo evidence and videos of everything.
She knew a month ahead of time that we were coming,
so it's not like she was-- it was sprung onto her the day before,
like she's trying to claim.
I'm not going to go out of my way
to give them access to the property before I'm there.
I'm going to do a walkthrough and ensure the lease is signed
before they have access to the property to avoid this.
Being a landlord is not the job for her.
You know, I remember moving in somewhere when I was a junior in college
and, you know, they always take advantage of us college students.
We'll live anywhere, sleep anywhere. We don't really care.
But it wasn't clean when my roommate and I moved in.
And I remember when we did the walkthrough
thinking that if I ever became a landlord
or, you know, anything in this realm of realty,
that I would make sure that all the places that I would expect
other people not only to live but to pay money for
was up to the standard of somewhere that I would live.
And I think that the defendant couldn't even say that.
That she would be willing to move in there and live there
in the condition that it was in either on the 12th or the 13th.
You know, that's a big deal.
Yeah, they wanted a place to live.
So, I think her claim that they never planned on signing the lease
or they were trying to take advantage of her, I don't believe any of that.
No mother packs up an 18-month-old for no reason.
-So... -Yeah, yeah.
They were hoping to make a new life. It didn't work out.
Yeah. She's a young person to have a little real estate business.
Four properties that she owns,
and I give her credit for that.
But you can't be a slumlord.
-Yeah. I give her credit too. -And expect to get-- Yeah.
But if you want four properties,
they have to be four properties that you'd be willing
-to live in yourself... -To live in yourself.
-...not subpar. -That's the answer-- That's the answer.
[narrator] Want justice?
Go to JudyJustice.tv.
[theme music playing]