1 00:00:49,500 --> 00:00:52,900 [theme music playing] 2 00:00:58,266 --> 00:01:00,000 MAN: The thing inside of me, it's like... 3 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,900 MAN: The thing inside of me, it's like... 4 00:01:02,367 --> 00:01:04,266 the appetite -- it's like a wolf that's... 5 00:01:06,367 --> 00:01:09,066 feeling the hunger. 6 00:01:16,634 --> 00:01:19,066 REPORTER: He was a sniper, carrying his rifle 7 00:01:19,066 --> 00:01:21,867 and scope in guitar cases -- in St. Louis, 8 00:01:21,867 --> 00:01:24,634 he staked out a synagogue and gunned down Gerald Gordon. 9 00:01:24,734 --> 00:01:26,367 In Madison, Wisconsin, 10 00:01:26,367 --> 00:01:29,166 a young interracial couple -- in Salt Lake City, 11 00:01:29,166 --> 00:01:30,000 Franklin killed two young black men who were jogging with 12 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,967 Franklin killed two young black men who were jogging with 13 00:01:31,967 --> 00:01:34,467 white female friends -- even civil rights leader, 14 00:01:34,467 --> 00:01:38,000 Vernon Jordan, and Larry Flynt, infamous pornographer, 15 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,166 founder, and publisher of Hustler magazine, 16 00:01:40,166 --> 00:01:43,634 shot with Franklin's sniper rifle, but survived. 17 00:01:49,867 --> 00:01:51,266 So you hunted him down? 18 00:01:51,266 --> 00:01:52,734 Yeah, I was -- I was hunting him down. 19 00:01:52,734 --> 00:01:54,166 Yeah, I ain't gonna deny that. 20 00:01:54,233 --> 00:01:55,367 [chuckles] 21 00:01:55,433 --> 00:01:57,266 REPORTER: The single unwavering drive 22 00:01:57,266 --> 00:01:59,800 in Joseph Paul Franklin -- murder. 23 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:17,367 You know, just go out and kill somebody at random? 24 00:02:17,433 --> 00:02:18,734 I would never do that. 25 00:02:18,734 --> 00:02:21,900 REPORTER: 14-year-old Darrell Lane and his 13-year-old cousin, 26 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,533 Dante Evans, were killed 27 00:02:23,634 --> 00:02:25,800 at random as they walked along Reading Road to 28 00:02:25,900 --> 00:02:29,000 a corner grocery store, June 8th, 1980. 29 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,000 Franklin admits he was in the Cincinnati area 30 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,734 Franklin admits he was in the Cincinnati area 31 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,166 the day before the murders, 32 00:02:33,166 --> 00:02:35,066 but he won't admit to the murders. 33 00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:37,467 Police still work on the case to this day, and they still 34 00:02:37,467 --> 00:02:39,066 think Franklin did it, but there isn't 35 00:02:39,066 --> 00:02:40,533 enough evidence to prove it. 36 00:02:45,867 --> 00:02:48,634 He hates men. He would never talk to you. 37 00:02:48,634 --> 00:02:51,467 He said, "But if you have a pretty assistant prosecutor," 38 00:02:51,467 --> 00:02:55,100 and I brought in Missy Powers. 39 00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:56,867 I think men took the approach, 40 00:02:56,867 --> 00:02:59,634 if you send in a pretty face, they're gonna confess, 41 00:02:59,634 --> 00:03:00,000 but I was hoping that some -- 42 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,600 but I was hoping that some -- 43 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,266 you needed more than just that. 44 00:03:03,333 --> 00:03:05,467 REPORTER: Franklin agreed to meet with Powers, 45 00:03:05,467 --> 00:03:09,467 but there were ground rules -- no video, only a tape recorder, 46 00:03:09,533 --> 00:03:12,166 and no meeting on Hitler's birthday. 47 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,066 SAHNI: Melissa Powers is brought in to talk with Franklin in 48 00:03:36,066 --> 00:03:39,634 the hopes that maybe they will catch him off guard. 49 00:03:40,500 --> 00:03:44,367 For narcissistic offenders and psychopathic individuals, 50 00:03:44,367 --> 00:03:49,166 the idea of having an attractive young woman come 51 00:03:49,166 --> 00:03:52,266 in to talk to him would have given him the sense that he was 52 00:03:52,266 --> 00:03:54,600 in a position of power and authority, and maybe 53 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,367 a willingness, hopefully, to actually talk 54 00:03:56,367 --> 00:03:58,634 and share more about the crimes he had done. 55 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,266 So here we have Franklin, who's been silent for 17 years 56 00:04:24,266 --> 00:04:27,634 about these crimes, and within minutes 57 00:04:27,634 --> 00:04:30,000 of talking to this female prosecutor, 58 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,266 of talking to this female prosecutor, 59 00:04:30,266 --> 00:04:34,367 he starts to just unload everything, saying, "I did it. 60 00:04:34,367 --> 00:04:38,166 I wanted to get rid of all the ugly people in the world." 61 00:04:38,233 --> 00:04:40,734 The clear connection between racism 62 00:04:40,734 --> 00:04:46,266 and psychopathy is inherent grandiosity and narcissism. 63 00:04:46,333 --> 00:04:50,800 He really seems to think he has a special purpose. 64 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:52,967 This is his way of saying, 65 00:04:52,967 --> 00:04:55,734 "I am white and therefore better than you." 66 00:04:55,734 --> 00:04:58,634 But it also has a little bit of attention-seeking behavior. 67 00:04:58,734 --> 00:05:00,000 It invites people to want to know more. 68 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,166 It invites people to want to know more. 69 00:05:47,634 --> 00:05:50,700 SAHNI: Franklin's desire to talk about what he wanted to 70 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,467 talk about not only was his narcissism at play, 71 00:05:54,467 --> 00:05:57,533 but his need to maintain control of the interview. 72 00:05:57,634 --> 00:06:00,000 Franklin decided that he needed to pump up 73 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,367 Franklin decided that he needed to pump up 74 00:06:00,433 --> 00:06:01,367 his notoriety. 75 00:06:01,367 --> 00:06:03,634 Crimes are no good for a narcissist 76 00:06:03,634 --> 00:06:05,467 if you don't get credit for them. 77 00:06:05,467 --> 00:06:08,166 "Look at how many of these crimes I've committed 78 00:06:08,166 --> 00:06:11,800 and never got caught for and how many people I killed." 79 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:13,266 And he says it with pride. 80 00:06:13,266 --> 00:06:15,500 The fact that he uses the word prolific, 81 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,800 he's putting himself in a position of authority. 82 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:19,367 He's not bothered by what he's done. 83 00:06:19,433 --> 00:06:20,900 He's getting a high off of it. 84 00:07:07,166 --> 00:07:08,967 FOX: Very few things are as dangerous 85 00:07:08,967 --> 00:07:10,967 as a psychopath that feels rejected. 86 00:07:10,967 --> 00:07:12,467 It infuriates them. 87 00:07:12,467 --> 00:07:15,066 The only way he has to respond is taking all 88 00:07:15,066 --> 00:07:18,367 the anger and frustration that he's feeling and essentially 89 00:07:18,433 --> 00:07:22,266 kill more people specifically so he would get more publicity. 90 00:07:22,333 --> 00:07:26,367 He wanted the coverage and the grandiosity of being able to 91 00:07:26,367 --> 00:07:28,166 be the person on the news, 92 00:07:28,166 --> 00:07:30,000 even though it was for a horrible thing. 93 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:30,066 even though it was for a horrible thing. 94 00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:32,166 But he was known, and people were talking about him. 95 00:08:43,166 --> 00:08:47,867 He's talking about these two child victims as adults. 96 00:08:47,867 --> 00:08:52,100 He's depersonalizing them by talking about them as dudes, 97 00:08:52,100 --> 00:08:55,066 and the fact that he's referring to it as a lucky shot, 98 00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:57,000 it's also dehumanizing them. 99 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,257 He's talking about them like they're target practice. 100 00:08:58,257 --> 00:08:59,166 He's talking about them like they're target practice. 101 00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:00,867 It's not that they're someone's children, 102 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:02,533 somebody's brother. 103 00:09:02,533 --> 00:09:07,634 It is a lack of caring about human life and compassion, 104 00:09:07,634 --> 00:09:11,533 but the predatory component is also thrill-seeking. 105 00:09:51,867 --> 00:09:54,233 FOX: Larry Flynt published in Hustler magazine 106 00:09:54,266 --> 00:09:57,166 a man and a woman that were interracial together. 107 00:09:57,233 --> 00:09:58,257 So because Larry Flynt did something that Franklin 108 00:09:58,257 --> 00:09:59,533 So because Larry Flynt did something that Franklin 109 00:09:59,533 --> 00:10:00,867 essentially disagreed with, 110 00:10:00,867 --> 00:10:03,900 he thought he should die for it -- in his mind, he failed. 111 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,367 He called it a tragedy, but not because Larry Flynt was wounded 112 00:10:08,367 --> 00:10:10,734 and paralyzed forever, but because he didn't kill him. 113 00:11:48,266 --> 00:11:51,800 FOX: In his mind, these girls did something wrong. 114 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,634 He wanted to kill that day, and no matter what 115 00:11:53,734 --> 00:11:55,233 they said, he was going to do it. 116 00:11:55,266 --> 00:11:58,257 But the M.O. is different, which shows that he's really 117 00:11:58,257 --> 00:11:58,266 But the M.O. is different, which shows that he's really 118 00:11:58,266 --> 00:12:00,533 escalating in what he needed to achieve 119 00:12:00,634 --> 00:12:04,233 the same level of power and control, to get the same level 120 00:12:04,266 --> 00:12:06,533 of gratification from these crimes. 121 00:12:06,533 --> 00:12:09,367 Sniping isn't a very intimate experience. 122 00:12:09,433 --> 00:12:10,700 There's a distance. 123 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:12,266 You don't really get to see the expression 124 00:12:12,266 --> 00:12:14,867 on the face as the people are dying, 125 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:17,066 but killing somebody point blank, 126 00:12:17,066 --> 00:12:19,233 especially if they're begging for their lives, 127 00:12:19,266 --> 00:12:21,467 that's really when he feels the most power 128 00:12:21,533 --> 00:12:24,533 over somebody else's life and really has that grandiosity 129 00:12:24,533 --> 00:12:26,333 that he's so desiring 130 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:58,257 He's really going through basic problem solving 131 00:12:58,257 --> 00:13:00,533 He's really going through basic problem solving 132 00:13:00,533 --> 00:13:02,600 strategies without any consideration 133 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,367 for human emotions, for the fear these women must 134 00:13:05,433 --> 00:13:06,467 have felt. 135 00:13:06,467 --> 00:13:08,900 You see this total depersonalization of 136 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,734 the victims, and when Franklin 137 00:13:10,734 --> 00:13:13,867 recounts what he did to these victims and how 138 00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:16,867 he terrorized them emotionally in those moments leading up to 139 00:13:16,900 --> 00:13:19,066 their death, he's callous about it. 140 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:07,967 FOX: He had self-monikered himself as a serial killer, 141 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,634 basically saying, "Well, you know, 142 00:14:09,634 --> 00:14:12,533 "I just wasted them before I really told them the thing that 143 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,634 would have very much scared them." 144 00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:17,533 But he's just writing this off as a loss. 145 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,166 He got the kill, but that really wasn't what he 146 00:14:20,166 --> 00:14:22,634 was after -- he wanted the response. 147 00:14:22,634 --> 00:14:25,734 And he was almost disappointed when they didn't show 148 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,100 that fear. 149 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:28,734 DERIGHT: Franklin really seems to like to 150 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,166 stay in control of his victims, 151 00:14:31,166 --> 00:14:31,602 like many psychopaths, because it feeds into the idea 152 00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:34,467 like many psychopaths, because it feeds into the idea 153 00:14:34,467 --> 00:14:38,734 that they are important and that they are superior. 154 00:14:38,734 --> 00:14:42,533 In this situation, when he encountered resistance of 155 00:14:42,533 --> 00:14:44,800 any kind, he just shot them to death. 156 00:15:47,467 --> 00:15:49,166 SAHNI: He's saying, "It didn't upset me, 157 00:15:49,233 --> 00:15:51,166 it didn't traumatize me," because he was just 158 00:15:51,166 --> 00:15:52,467 doing his job. 159 00:15:52,467 --> 00:15:57,266 He was doing that unsavory task that needed to get done, 160 00:15:57,266 --> 00:15:58,967 even if it's not pleasant. 161 00:15:58,967 --> 00:16:01,166 That's consistent with a psychopathic individual 162 00:16:01,233 --> 00:16:01,602 who doesn't have normal connections to other 163 00:16:01,602 --> 00:16:03,367 who doesn't have normal connections to other 164 00:16:03,367 --> 00:16:04,533 human beings. 165 00:16:04,533 --> 00:16:07,734 This is a very predatory individual who gets 166 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,266 his sense of self-confidence 167 00:16:10,333 --> 00:16:13,467 and station in life from deciding who lives and who dies. 168 00:16:13,467 --> 00:16:16,433 But there's a little bit of euphoria you hear in his voice. 169 00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:17,634 There's a chuckle. 170 00:16:17,634 --> 00:16:21,634 He is glib about how he's describing the crime, and that 171 00:16:21,634 --> 00:16:25,467 arousal does speak to some energy or adrenaline 172 00:16:25,467 --> 00:16:29,533 that he was experiencing both at the time of the crime, 173 00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:31,602 as well as now, recounting it for this interviewer. 174 00:16:31,602 --> 00:16:33,533 as well as now, recounting it for this interviewer. 175 00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:52,433 REPORTER: Why did you decide to confess? 176 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:55,634 Well, I had a dream that told me to confess to this. 177 00:16:57,166 --> 00:17:00,066 DERIGHT: It's a few weeks away from Franklin's execution, 178 00:17:00,066 --> 00:17:01,602 and he's doing this media tour, 179 00:17:01,602 --> 00:17:02,000 and he's doing this media tour, 180 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,533 accepting all kinds of interviews from reporters, 181 00:17:05,533 --> 00:17:07,266 both locally and nationally. 182 00:17:07,266 --> 00:17:09,533 He really wants to make sure that he is 183 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,867 well-known to the world about what he did. 184 00:17:12,867 --> 00:17:17,266 Franklin gets his pleasure from notoriety -- 185 00:17:17,266 --> 00:17:19,367 not the actual act of killing, 186 00:17:19,433 --> 00:17:22,533 but being known as someone who does that. 187 00:17:22,533 --> 00:17:25,266 He's not saying, "I regret what I did. 188 00:17:25,333 --> 00:17:27,634 "I regret the harm that I put 189 00:17:27,634 --> 00:17:29,867 on these victims and their families." 190 00:17:29,867 --> 00:17:31,233 It's all about him. 191 00:17:32,867 --> 00:17:36,367 REPORTER: Joseph, uh, you've been on death row now for what, 192 00:17:36,367 --> 00:17:38,634 16 years? -Yeah, about 16 years. 193 00:17:38,634 --> 00:17:43,367 REPORTER: And now the execution date is growing very near. 194 00:17:43,367 --> 00:17:46,166 What are your -- what are your feelings with that? 195 00:17:46,166 --> 00:17:49,467 Well, I'm hoping to get a stay of execution. 196 00:17:49,467 --> 00:17:51,800 I would love to be out on the streets right now. 197 00:18:24,367 --> 00:18:24,490 It's not uncommon for psychopaths to sort of 198 00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:27,166 It's not uncommon for psychopaths to sort of 199 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,467 shift their identity 200 00:18:28,467 --> 00:18:30,166 and play off of what works in the moment. 201 00:18:30,233 --> 00:18:32,066 And at that moment, the thing that was 202 00:18:32,066 --> 00:18:35,266 going to work best for him was, "I'm repenting. 203 00:18:35,266 --> 00:18:36,967 "I see the light. 204 00:18:36,967 --> 00:18:39,734 I believe in God, and I'm asking God for forgiveness." 205 00:18:39,734 --> 00:18:43,100 Whether he believes any of that is completely disputable. 206 00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:46,066 He wants clemency, and he's trying to do anything he can 207 00:18:46,066 --> 00:18:49,734 to still play the fiddle and see what makes people dance. 208 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,867 I guarantee you, if you asked him two 209 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:53,867 days later, and he didn't get what he wanted, 210 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:54,490 he would take it all back. 211 00:18:54,490 --> 00:18:55,333 he would take it all back. 212 00:19:03,066 --> 00:19:04,734 [Franklin laughing] 213 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:30,100 KARAS: Wow. 214 00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:58,867 While there's no doubt that early childhood trauma, 215 00:19:58,867 --> 00:20:02,367 emotional neglect, abuse are not optimal ways 216 00:20:02,367 --> 00:20:03,533 for a child to be raised, 217 00:20:03,533 --> 00:20:06,734 Franklin is attributing a lot of his formation of hatred 218 00:20:06,734 --> 00:20:11,100 and racist attitudes and being a dysfunctional, anti-social 219 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,266 human being and psychopathic, 220 00:20:13,266 --> 00:20:15,266 he's blaming all of it on that. 221 00:20:15,266 --> 00:20:17,967 Franklin is doing nothing other than shifting 222 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,367 the blame and minimizing the seriousness of what 223 00:20:20,433 --> 00:20:21,467 he's done, 224 00:20:21,533 --> 00:20:24,166 and ultimately, that lack of willingness to take true 225 00:20:24,233 --> 00:20:24,490 responsibility for his own 226 00:20:24,490 --> 00:20:25,634 responsibility for his own 227 00:20:25,634 --> 00:20:27,734 attitudes and choices and behaviors, 228 00:20:27,734 --> 00:20:31,967 speaks to the skin surface level of remorse and regret 229 00:20:31,967 --> 00:20:34,333 he had, even up until his dying days. 230 00:20:42,967 --> 00:20:44,734 FRANKLIN: Most people out there, I mean, 231 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,634 they're heading toward a burning hell, 232 00:20:46,634 --> 00:20:47,634 and they don't know it. 233 00:20:47,634 --> 00:20:49,100 Do you think something lies for you 234 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,634 on the other side after November 20th? 235 00:20:51,634 --> 00:20:54,066 Yeah, but it isn't a burning hell, though, because I'm -- 236 00:20:54,066 --> 00:20:54,490 I'm a servant of the Lord, though.