1 00:00:02,266 --> 00:00:06,333 [eerie music playing] 2 00:00:39,767 --> 00:00:43,967 Every parent's worst fear would be for their child to turn into 3 00:00:43,967 --> 00:00:45,500 a depraved killer. 4 00:00:46,767 --> 00:00:50,266 [woman] He was our much-beloved son, and we can't-- 5 00:00:50,266 --> 00:00:53,300 we didn't raise him to be this kind of person. 6 00:00:54,467 --> 00:00:57,834 He said, "I have always been fascinated by 7 00:00:57,900 --> 00:00:59,500 "death and violence, 8 00:01:00,767 --> 00:01:04,133 "and it was something that I wanted to do-- 9 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,400 murder, rape, and cannibalism." 10 00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:13,567 [Nameeta] As a parent, when you see a child has an unusual 11 00:01:13,567 --> 00:01:17,166 obsession with violence, you don't often think, is 12 00:01:17,166 --> 00:01:20,266 your child is aspiring to be a serial killer? 13 00:01:20,266 --> 00:01:23,066 [man] I think he was born to kill. 14 00:01:23,066 --> 00:01:26,433 It was just-- I don't know if it's a bad seed or what, 15 00:01:26,500 --> 00:01:27,433 but boy, he's... 16 00:01:29,367 --> 00:01:33,400 he was just totally consumed with murder. 17 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,000 [theme music playing] 18 00:01:51,667 --> 00:01:54,133 [man] The thing inside of me, it's like... 19 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,266 the appetite. 20 00:01:56,266 --> 00:01:58,033 It's like a wolf that's... 21 00:01:58,767 --> 00:02:02,533 feeling the hunger. 22 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:15,266 [Chriscelyn] We know from some of the most 23 00:02:15,266 --> 00:02:17,266 notorious serial killers, like 24 00:02:17,266 --> 00:02:21,367 Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Kemper, Ted Bundy, that these 25 00:02:21,367 --> 00:02:24,667 individuals didn't just begin to show traits 26 00:02:24,667 --> 00:02:26,767 of psychopathy in adulthood. 27 00:02:26,767 --> 00:02:29,467 In fact, when we look back at their lives, we know that there 28 00:02:29,467 --> 00:02:33,233 were a lot of red flags from early on in their childhood. 29 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:39,266 When all of us, as parents, think about raising children, 30 00:02:39,266 --> 00:02:42,367 one of the sincerest goals is making sure you're putting 31 00:02:42,367 --> 00:02:45,066 a good, healthy human being in the world. 32 00:02:45,066 --> 00:02:47,467 How do we really know when our children 33 00:02:47,467 --> 00:02:49,066 are developing properly? 34 00:02:49,066 --> 00:02:52,166 When do we know that our children are safe 35 00:02:52,166 --> 00:02:53,567 as good human beings? 36 00:02:53,567 --> 00:02:56,934 They're on the right track versus maybe something's not 37 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,533 right with my child, but maybe it's a sign of 38 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,166 something larger. 39 00:03:01,166 --> 00:03:03,066 We're going to take a closer look at some of 40 00:03:03,066 --> 00:03:04,834 those early warning signs. 41 00:03:30,567 --> 00:03:33,033 [man] Police have identified the suspect as 59-year-old 42 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:35,166 Dennis Rader, an animal control officer 43 00:03:35,166 --> 00:03:37,266 who is also a Cub Scout leader 44 00:03:37,266 --> 00:03:38,667 and president of his church. 45 00:03:38,667 --> 00:03:41,934 Rader, who is married with two adult children, lives in 46 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,700 Park City, Kansas, a suburb of Wichita. 47 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,133 [Nameeta] One of the cases that evaded authorities for more than 48 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,266 two decades was the case of Dennis Rader. 49 00:03:53,266 --> 00:03:59,233 BTK was the name or acronym that Rader himself created. 50 00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:03,467 Bind them, torture them, kill them. 51 00:04:03,467 --> 00:04:05,967 Rader's always maintained that he had a relatively 52 00:04:05,967 --> 00:04:07,166 normal childhood. 53 00:04:07,166 --> 00:04:11,734 But what we actually know is that Dennis Rader's obsession 54 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,066 with violence, with torture, with harm began 55 00:04:15,066 --> 00:04:17,467 at the young age of seven or eight. 56 00:04:17,467 --> 00:04:22,667 Rader remembers and recalls in detail having obsessive 57 00:04:22,667 --> 00:04:26,567 thoughts about certain females that he went to school with 58 00:04:26,567 --> 00:04:30,166 and fantasies that he would basically kidnap them, 59 00:04:30,166 --> 00:04:34,867 bind them, torture them, and sexually assault them. 60 00:04:34,867 --> 00:04:39,333 Rader has disclosed that he was always intrigued by serial 61 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,033 killers such as Ted Bundy, Jack the Ripper. 62 00:04:42,867 --> 00:04:47,667 And not only was he intrigued by them, he idolized them. 63 00:04:47,667 --> 00:04:50,000 He wanted to become like them. 64 00:04:51,467 --> 00:04:56,634 [Chriscelyn] Rader's fantasies centered around sex and violence. 65 00:04:56,700 --> 00:05:00,333 As a young teenager, he would even engage in 66 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,734 behaviors that he would eventually perpetrate 67 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,066 against his victims. 68 00:05:04,066 --> 00:05:09,367 So, for example, he would bound his own feet and hands and tie 69 00:05:09,367 --> 00:05:11,266 a bag around his head, perhaps engaging 70 00:05:11,266 --> 00:05:15,033 in autoerotica while masturbating. 71 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:18,667 And we know that this is similar to the crimes that 72 00:05:18,667 --> 00:05:20,634 he eventually did commit. 73 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:24,567 Individuals who exhibit this fascination with violence, 74 00:05:24,567 --> 00:05:28,667 this lack of empathy for others, can sometimes begin very early 75 00:05:28,667 --> 00:05:32,433 in childhood, and we see a similar fascination 76 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:36,834 in Brian Cohee, who also idolized serial killers. 77 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,066 [officer] So parents have some concerns 78 00:06:31,066 --> 00:06:33,367 of some stuff they may have found in your room? 79 00:06:33,367 --> 00:06:37,533 -Um, yeah, I believe so. -And what would it be? 80 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:41,767 A human head and hands. 81 00:06:41,767 --> 00:06:43,700 [officer] And how did you end up with them? 82 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,100 I murdered him. 83 00:07:34,567 --> 00:07:39,066 Cohee's somewhat pridefully talking about how he had always 84 00:07:39,066 --> 00:07:42,066 admired Ted Bundy, the Zodiac killer. 85 00:07:42,066 --> 00:07:45,600 This is somebody who had a deep fascination with violence. 86 00:08:58,467 --> 00:09:01,934 [Charles] In the case of Brian Cohee, there is plenty of evidence 87 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,567 that he had a very dangerous preoccupation with violence. 88 00:09:05,567 --> 00:09:09,133 Certainly, in his mind, the character from 89 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,166 the "Halloween" movies, Michael Myers, the killer, 90 00:09:11,166 --> 00:09:16,166 is someone that he can idolize, identify with. 91 00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:18,767 It's the kind of thinking that we do when we're really little, 92 00:09:18,767 --> 00:09:21,967 which is, if I dress up like you, I can be you. 93 00:09:21,967 --> 00:09:25,767 So wearing the costume helps me become the person 94 00:09:25,767 --> 00:09:28,533 that I fantasized about or idealized. 95 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,834 [Chriscelyn] There are indications that at least some people 96 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:29,567 saw this coming. 97 00:10:29,567 --> 00:10:33,166 School records have suggested that the psychologist had 98 00:10:33,166 --> 00:10:37,934 evaluated him, and it even cited that he was dangerous. 99 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,033 So Cohee's behavior really didn't just come out 100 00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:43,233 of nowhere. 101 00:10:43,233 --> 00:10:47,433 He journaled about violence and fantasies about crime 102 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:50,667 and criminal acts that were violent and involved 103 00:10:50,667 --> 00:10:52,266 sadistic behavior. 104 00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:31,533 [Nameeta] One of his parents finds something that they refer to as 105 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:32,700 a kill kit. 106 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:35,767 They included weapons, they included tools that would 107 00:11:35,767 --> 00:11:38,734 suggest there was intent to do harm. 108 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,166 Despite the fact that he's outwardly and openly 109 00:11:41,166 --> 00:11:44,734 and transparently obsessed and fixated on violence 110 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,834 and glorifying these serial killers and obsessed with 111 00:11:48,900 --> 00:11:51,066 forensic sciences and things that have to do with 112 00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:53,567 decomposition and very dark material, 113 00:11:53,567 --> 00:11:56,934 his parents essentially wag their finger at him and say, 114 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,166 "You don't do that again." 115 00:11:58,166 --> 00:12:02,000 And it has absolutely zero impact on Cohee. 116 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,133 As we've seen time and time again, in these cases of 117 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,867 budding psychopathic teenagers and children who go on to do 118 00:12:29,867 --> 00:12:34,367 these heinous adult crimes, they don't outgrow it. 119 00:12:34,367 --> 00:12:36,533 They go on to kill people. 120 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,166 [man] Serial killer Ted Bundy is talking, confessing to murder 121 00:12:39,166 --> 00:12:41,567 after murder, giving investigators 122 00:12:41,567 --> 00:12:45,133 grisly details of a decade-long cross-country crime spree. 123 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,934 I think he was born to kill. 124 00:12:51,467 --> 00:12:53,467 [Nameeta] Young children, from the very beginning, 125 00:12:53,467 --> 00:12:56,433 they're learning the value of human relationships. 126 00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:59,367 They're learning the value of not harming others. 127 00:12:59,367 --> 00:13:03,834 They're learning the value of falling within healthy morals 128 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:06,100 that are consistent with society's value for 129 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:07,867 right and wrong. 130 00:13:07,867 --> 00:13:12,333 But when somebody doesn't have that developmental process, 131 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,166 and that trajectory is not happening as it should, 132 00:13:15,166 --> 00:13:18,867 they're failing to gain intrinsic value internally for 133 00:13:18,867 --> 00:13:23,734 praise, for trophies, for just being a good citizen. 134 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,033 Even if they're a tiny little human being, we have a problem. 135 00:13:46,066 --> 00:13:48,367 The most notorious serial killer in the nation is 136 00:13:48,367 --> 00:13:49,567 scheduled to die tomorrow morning 137 00:13:49,567 --> 00:13:51,367 in Florida's electric chair. 138 00:13:51,367 --> 00:13:55,133 Ted Bundy is an articulate, intelligent 42-year-old man, 139 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,166 a former Boy Scout, law student, 140 00:13:57,166 --> 00:13:58,967 and Republican Party activist. 141 00:13:58,967 --> 00:14:01,433 Bruce Hall is at the Florida State Prison. 142 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:06,066 I don't know if it's a bad seed or what, but he is just totally 143 00:14:06,066 --> 00:14:07,900 consumed with murder. 144 00:14:08,667 --> 00:14:10,166 [man] Prior to his execution, 145 00:14:10,166 --> 00:14:11,667 Bundy made a farewell phone call 146 00:14:11,667 --> 00:14:13,000 to his mother. -[sighs] Oh, God. 147 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,934 He was our much beloved son. 148 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,533 We didn't raise him to be this kind of person. 149 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,867 We gave him a good upbringing. 150 00:14:23,867 --> 00:14:26,667 And something has happened to him, 151 00:14:26,667 --> 00:14:30,367 sometime since he left this house, 152 00:14:30,367 --> 00:14:34,700 that has triggered some terrible madness inside of him. 153 00:14:36,567 --> 00:14:38,266 [Chriscelyn] What we know from the records 154 00:14:38,266 --> 00:14:40,367 is that Ted Bundy grew up 155 00:14:40,367 --> 00:14:43,033 thinking his grandparents were his parents 156 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:45,567 and that his mother was his sister. 157 00:14:45,567 --> 00:14:50,467 And he has talked about how embarrassing it was to be outed 158 00:14:50,467 --> 00:14:52,900 as the child that didn't have a father. 159 00:14:53,867 --> 00:14:58,467 What we know from the research is that growing up in a family 160 00:14:58,467 --> 00:15:04,133 with those sort of dynamics has the opportunity to lead to 161 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,634 a lot of problematic development. 162 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:12,467 [Charles] If it's true that in his early family that these boundaries 163 00:15:12,467 --> 00:15:15,967 have been broken in the family, and I suspect that there were 164 00:15:15,967 --> 00:15:18,867 other kinds of abuse going on, whether it was emotional abuse 165 00:15:18,867 --> 00:15:23,266 or neglect or physical abuse, that breaks down a child's 166 00:15:23,266 --> 00:15:26,467 perception of which rules are firm, which ones you keep 167 00:15:26,467 --> 00:15:29,667 and which ones you don't, and whether or not people do 168 00:15:29,667 --> 00:15:30,867 whatever they want. 169 00:15:30,867 --> 00:15:34,367 And so if a kid learns that rule early on, that people do 170 00:15:34,367 --> 00:15:37,166 whatever they want, and I don't mean that much to any of these 171 00:15:37,166 --> 00:15:39,867 people, then why would they mean that much to me? 172 00:15:39,867 --> 00:15:42,967 That may explain the longstanding pattern where 173 00:15:42,967 --> 00:15:48,533 there's no remorse and almost a calculated indifference to 174 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,567 his actions in killing people, where he never seemed troubled 175 00:15:53,567 --> 00:15:58,467 by any of it and seemed rather calculating and cool about it. 176 00:15:58,467 --> 00:16:00,333 I have got to keep myself together. 177 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:01,266 I have got to stay calm. 178 00:16:01,266 --> 00:16:03,166 I've got to keep my presence of mind, 179 00:16:03,166 --> 00:16:04,934 because as long as I do that, 180 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,934 I'm going to beat these people. 181 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,333 [Chriscelyn] Bundy didn't believe that the rules applied to him. 182 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,567 And this acting without conscience seemed to have 183 00:16:14,567 --> 00:16:17,000 started at an early point in his life. 184 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,200 And we see similar tendencies with Michael Swanson. 185 00:16:38,266 --> 00:16:40,367 [man] It all started in Algona, Iowa. 186 00:16:40,367 --> 00:16:43,367 Pretty heartbreaking story and unbelievable. 187 00:16:43,367 --> 00:16:46,533 [woman] Investigators say a man wearing a ski mask walked into 188 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,166 the store and demanded Bowman-Hall put cash 189 00:16:49,166 --> 00:16:51,166 and cigarettes into a duffel bag. 190 00:16:51,166 --> 00:16:53,100 She did, and he shot her. 191 00:17:16,266 --> 00:17:19,533 [Chriscelyn] There's no point, when he's discussing either of 192 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,567 these two store clerks, 193 00:17:21,567 --> 00:17:23,867 that he seems to appreciate the fact that 194 00:17:23,867 --> 00:17:27,667 they're actually human beings with lives, with friends, 195 00:17:27,667 --> 00:17:28,767 with family. 196 00:17:28,767 --> 00:17:32,767 He talks about them, shooting them and them dying, 197 00:17:32,767 --> 00:17:37,266 as if he's talking about an inanimate object. 198 00:17:37,266 --> 00:17:40,500 It's a shocking lack of conscience. 199 00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:46,634 [woman] The state then called a psychiatrist 200 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:48,667 who interviewed Swanson after the crime. 201 00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:51,266 He says Swanson told him he'd been planning to kill since 202 00:17:51,266 --> 00:17:52,367 he was 13. 203 00:17:52,367 --> 00:17:55,367 [psychiatrist] He said, "I have always been fascinated 204 00:17:55,367 --> 00:17:58,367 "by death and violence, 205 00:17:58,367 --> 00:17:59,867 "and it was something 206 00:17:59,867 --> 00:18:05,233 that I wanted to do-- murder, rape, and cannibalism." 207 00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:08,467 [woman] Michael Swanson stared blankly as his mother described 208 00:18:08,467 --> 00:18:09,867 a troubled toddler. 209 00:18:09,867 --> 00:18:12,467 When he was 11, she said police got involved. 210 00:18:12,467 --> 00:18:15,767 The neighbor came knocking on the door, 211 00:18:15,767 --> 00:18:17,634 and she said that 212 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:19,934 Michael is running around the neighborhood with a knife, 213 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,800 and he's threatening people, and he threatened her daughter. 214 00:18:47,567 --> 00:18:53,367 What we start to see here is not only that lack of empathy 215 00:18:53,367 --> 00:18:56,967 for the concept of fear and that he's evoking fear in 216 00:18:56,967 --> 00:19:00,367 someone, and he doesn't feel bad about it, where most children's 217 00:19:00,367 --> 00:19:04,567 intrinsic value for social approval comes from doing good, 218 00:19:04,567 --> 00:19:08,100 at a very early age, he might be learning that causing harm 219 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:11,867 and fear and getting people scared is what pleases him 220 00:19:11,867 --> 00:19:13,100 and keeps him happy. 221 00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:18,734 [judge] Verdict number one, we find the defendant guilty of 222 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,100 murder in the first degree. 223 00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:24,934 [man] Even after a jury convicted Michael Swanson, he smiled. 224 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,867 Psychopathy is not something that just one day a parent 225 00:19:27,867 --> 00:19:31,133 wakes up and realizes, I have a problematic child with 226 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,467 no conscience, no sense of remorse, and who doesn't behave 227 00:19:34,467 --> 00:19:37,767 like most children-- that does not happen overnight. 228 00:19:37,767 --> 00:19:42,233 But when we look at some of our more notorious psychopaths, 229 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:44,834 in many of those cases, we actually see 230 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:47,367 early history of animal harm. 231 00:19:47,367 --> 00:19:50,634 That is not a typical part of child development. 232 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:53,734 [man] Kemper was arraigned this afternoon on charges of killing 233 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,767 six young women, his mother, and a friend 234 00:19:55,767 --> 00:19:58,066 of hers-- all the victims except one, 235 00:19:58,066 --> 00:20:00,567 the woman friend of his mother, were dismembered. 236 00:20:00,567 --> 00:20:04,367 Experts say Kemper's path to torture and murder began early 237 00:20:04,367 --> 00:20:08,166 in childhood when he began decapitating his sister's dolls 238 00:20:08,166 --> 00:20:09,367 and killing cats. 239 00:20:09,367 --> 00:20:14,133 He apparently fantasized about doing this for quite a long 240 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,667 period of time. 241 00:20:20,266 --> 00:20:22,000 [man] As a child, Kemper often played a sick game in which 242 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,433 his sisters pretended to be executioners. 243 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,967 Kemper's obsession with violence and its casual 244 00:20:26,967 --> 00:20:31,233 connection with sex and love was so twisted by age 12 that 245 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:33,533 when asked why he didn't give his grade school teacher 246 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,133 a kiss, he replied, "If I kiss her, 247 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,100 I would have to kill her first." 248 00:20:39,166 --> 00:20:43,100 [Chriscelyn] Usually, we see more than one trait of psychopathy in 249 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:47,000 an individual, and these traits can go back to early childhood 250 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,367 and continue to develop as time goes on. 251 00:20:49,367 --> 00:20:53,867 And what starts as a fantasy, a violent fantasy, for example, 252 00:20:53,867 --> 00:20:58,667 often escalates into actually enacting that fantasy or that 253 00:20:58,667 --> 00:21:01,634 violence toward a living creature like an animal. 254 00:21:15,166 --> 00:21:19,333 We know from the records that Kemper's violence began at 255 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,467 least at age 10, whenever he killed a family cat. 256 00:21:23,467 --> 00:21:28,500 He buried the family cat alive, only to then 257 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,700 exhume its body, decapitate it, and put its head on a spike. 258 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,166 Sometime later, Kemper killed another cat. 259 00:21:40,166 --> 00:21:43,834 He actually kept parts of this cat in his bedroom, 260 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:45,367 and his mother discovered them. 261 00:21:45,367 --> 00:21:48,166 And he provided that explanation that, "Well, I had 262 00:21:48,166 --> 00:21:51,567 "to kill the cat because it favored my sister 263 00:21:51,567 --> 00:21:53,333 instead of me." 264 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,967 So these are alarming behaviors that are certainly not typical 265 00:21:57,967 --> 00:22:00,500 for children to engage in. 266 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,734 [Charles] So in many cases of psychopathy, 267 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,734 we find their fascination with creating and inflicting pain 268 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,166 and dismembering things, whether it's to dissect them 269 00:22:12,166 --> 00:22:15,967 or watch the animal die or enjoy the fact an animal is 270 00:22:15,967 --> 00:22:18,667 dying, I think is a pretty important indication of how 271 00:22:18,667 --> 00:22:23,266 well the person regards other living beings. 272 00:22:23,266 --> 00:22:25,767 [Chriscelyn] When we see this sort of behavior, 273 00:22:25,767 --> 00:22:28,100 it is particularly concerning. 274 00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,367 It shows a lack of empathy 275 00:22:31,367 --> 00:22:35,266 and a coldness that we just 276 00:22:35,266 --> 00:22:38,367 don't expect to see in children, to take advantage of 277 00:22:38,367 --> 00:22:41,233 a vulnerable living creature like this. 278 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,634 Another serial killer who has a history of torturing 279 00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,834 and killing animals as a child is Israel Keyes. 280 00:23:08,166 --> 00:23:11,100 In the shed is where he sexually assaulted 281 00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,533 and killed Samantha Koenig. 282 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,567 [man] Keyes then dismembered her body and dumped her remains in 283 00:23:17,567 --> 00:23:18,900 Matanuska Lake. 284 00:25:25,266 --> 00:25:27,900 [laughs] 285 00:25:33,867 --> 00:25:36,066 [Charles] So he goes out into the woods with friends, 286 00:25:36,066 --> 00:25:37,834 and he has the plan, 287 00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:39,467 because he takes the cat with him and a gun, 288 00:25:39,467 --> 00:25:41,967 and takes great pleasure not only from watching 289 00:25:41,967 --> 00:25:46,433 the cat suffer, but, um, actually derives a great deal of 290 00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:49,834 pleasure from seeing the horror, the emotional reaction, 291 00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:54,033 and the shock that it generates in his peers, and, you know, 292 00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:57,767 his laughter, I think, is-- it's genuine, it's linked to 293 00:25:57,767 --> 00:26:03,266 that amazement, that, "Boy, humans are different than me." 294 00:26:03,266 --> 00:26:06,033 Animals are sort of perfect little victims, right? 295 00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:09,133 They can't talk, they can't go tell someone. 296 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,634 There's rarely someone to come to their defense. 297 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:16,000 So it leaves the person in charge feeling in control 298 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,734 and kind of acting godlike over the animal. 299 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,533 So in many ways, it's a foreshadowing of what 300 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:23,967 they would like to do to their victims. 301 00:27:23,166 --> 00:27:26,000 [woman] Bill and Lorraine Currier vanished from their Essex home, 302 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,467 The couple's garage window was broken, and the phone line to 303 00:27:29,467 --> 00:27:30,667 the home had been cut. 304 00:27:30,667 --> 00:27:33,467 Police say they do have evidence the couple 305 00:27:33,467 --> 00:27:34,567 was abducted. 306 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,967 It's like he's planned and is going on these almost 307 00:28:36,967 --> 00:28:39,834 human victim hunting expeditions. 308 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:43,634 He's identified this couple, and he's going to 309 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:44,767 enact his plan. 310 00:28:44,767 --> 00:28:48,467 He's almost giddy at containing this information. 311 00:28:48,467 --> 00:28:51,567 It seems to be exhilarating to him to have that 312 00:28:51,567 --> 00:28:53,033 power and control. 313 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:07,834 [Charles] He wanted her to know 314 00:29:07,834 --> 00:29:12,100 that her husband was already dead and was enjoying that whole 315 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:15,934 process of letting her know, just more of the power-- 316 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,266 he can control the information and then enjoy watching 317 00:29:18,266 --> 00:29:21,367 her suffer from knowing it, which is a bit like 318 00:29:21,367 --> 00:29:24,166 watching the cat, after shooting the cat 319 00:29:24,166 --> 00:29:25,467 and watching it run around and around 320 00:29:25,467 --> 00:29:28,367 and enjoying that, and then enjoying the horror on 321 00:29:28,367 --> 00:29:29,834 other people's faces. 322 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,734 [Nameeta] Most adolescents, while it is normal and typical 323 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,533 in their development to be self-focused and self-absorbed, 324 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,467 still exhibit regular and reasonable attachment 325 00:30:01,467 --> 00:30:03,567 and connection to their family members. 326 00:30:03,567 --> 00:30:06,233 But what we know about psychopathic individuals, 327 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,367 their attachment to others, including 328 00:30:09,367 --> 00:30:13,467 their parents, their siblings, their own children, 329 00:30:13,467 --> 00:30:14,800 is transactional. 330 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:17,567 [Charles] For psychopaths, you're an object, 331 00:30:17,567 --> 00:30:20,433 and they want you for some purpose. 332 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:23,467 So they're very quick at studying you and deciding 333 00:30:23,467 --> 00:30:24,900 you're useful or not. 334 00:30:36,266 --> 00:30:38,767 [man] Heather Mack was 18 and pregnant when the murder of 335 00:30:38,767 --> 00:30:41,967 her mother happened in a hotel room at a resort in Bali 336 00:30:41,967 --> 00:30:43,867 in 2014. 337 00:30:43,867 --> 00:30:46,934 Mack and her boyfriend, Tommy Schaefer, were convicted 338 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,000 of murdering Sheila von Wiese-Mack and leaving her body 339 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,133 in a suitcase at the hotel. 340 00:30:57,567 --> 00:31:00,567 When we think about mother and daughter relationships, 341 00:31:00,567 --> 00:31:04,133 it is hard to conceive of a daughter hating her mother 342 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,934 so much that she ends up killing her while on that vacation. 343 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,133 And that lack of attachment towards family members is one 344 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,133 of those significant markers in childhood 345 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,333 and adolescence that we look at. 346 00:31:29,266 --> 00:31:31,667 It's $1.5 million that she would have access to 347 00:31:31,667 --> 00:31:34,867 as a young adult, but not until the age of 30. 348 00:31:34,867 --> 00:31:39,834 For Heather, her mother was the guardian of that account. 349 00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:43,667 To family friends and family members, Heather Mack was known 350 00:31:43,667 --> 00:31:46,467 as a spoiled, out-of-control teenager. 351 00:31:46,467 --> 00:31:48,467 People described her as narcissistic, 352 00:31:48,467 --> 00:31:52,266 manipulative, violent, known to fly into fits of rage. 353 00:31:52,266 --> 00:31:56,133 On one occasion, Heather Mack managed to actually break 354 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,200 her mother's arm. 355 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,100 She showed no real remorse towards her mother, 356 00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:01,634 no caring and connection. 357 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:04,834 She seemed not only indifferent to her mother's well-being, 358 00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:09,400 she actually seemed to gain pleasure from terrorizing her. 359 00:32:15,767 --> 00:32:17,900 I don't regret killing my mother. 360 00:32:19,567 --> 00:32:23,934 And as evil as that may sound, that's my reality. 361 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,734 [Nameeta] The problem is that Heather Mack, consistent with what 362 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,667 we see with psychopathic individuals, acted out in these 363 00:32:29,667 --> 00:32:32,233 extreme and violent and aggressive ways. 364 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,467 There was a depraved indifference to the harm 365 00:32:34,467 --> 00:32:36,867 she caused to her mother that ultimately led to 366 00:32:36,867 --> 00:32:38,266 her mother's murder. 367 00:32:38,266 --> 00:32:41,367 Another case, maybe less well-known, where we see 368 00:32:41,367 --> 00:32:44,834 a teenager with poor connections to others 369 00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:48,100 and specifically a lack of attachment and connection to 370 00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:50,800 his family, we think about the case of Daniel Petric. 371 00:33:26,967 --> 00:33:31,200 [siren wailing] 372 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,634 When we listen to Petric talk to the police, 373 00:34:54,700 --> 00:34:57,000 those initial statements are really jarring. 374 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,767 It's jarring because there's no emotion. 375 00:34:59,767 --> 00:35:02,266 He's talking about how he had to get out of there. 376 00:35:02,266 --> 00:35:03,367 It was just upsetting. 377 00:35:03,367 --> 00:35:05,934 And so instead of getting out of there and going to 378 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,934 the hospital, going to a police station, he says he went to, 379 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,634 and I quote, "hang out" with his friend Steve. 380 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,634 These are not the words of a caring, concerned teenager. 381 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:20,233 These are the words of a psychopathic individual 382 00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:23,300 who has no real attachment to these family members. 383 00:35:43,367 --> 00:35:46,634 [Charles] He doesn't even ask, "Did my mom die?" 384 00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:48,734 He's really only asking about his dad. 385 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,066 So he knows for sure mom's dead. 386 00:35:52,066 --> 00:35:55,767 The story he's created for the police is that it was 387 00:35:55,767 --> 00:35:58,467 his parents who were engaged in an argument. 388 00:35:58,467 --> 00:36:01,033 He hears the gunshot, comes running out. 389 00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:05,266 Mom's shot, then he's threatened by the dad, 390 00:36:05,266 --> 00:36:08,033 who then says, "Oh, I'm sorry," and turns the gun on himself. 391 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:12,533 And then while he's telling this, he's trying to sound 392 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,233 emotionally upset. 393 00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:19,166 What's clear is that he is not behaving like a normal person. 394 00:36:19,166 --> 00:36:22,367 He's not having the basic, uh, 395 00:36:22,367 --> 00:36:24,667 emotions of fear, anxiety, loss, 396 00:36:24,667 --> 00:36:26,700 and concern about family. 397 00:37:58,967 --> 00:38:01,867 Now he's saying they were arguing over the fact that 398 00:38:01,867 --> 00:38:03,934 he was grounded and his behavior 399 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,867 around this video game. 400 00:38:05,867 --> 00:38:10,266 So in less than 24 hours, Petric's story has changed 401 00:38:10,266 --> 00:38:11,467 multiple times. 402 00:38:11,467 --> 00:38:14,734 There's no evidence that there was family violence in this 403 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,767 home prior to that, there's no evidence that his parents were 404 00:38:17,767 --> 00:38:21,867 ever aggressive or violent or overly stern with him. 405 00:38:21,867 --> 00:38:25,000 So the minute his parents do the appropriate thing as 406 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,133 adults, parenting this difficult teenager, 407 00:38:28,867 --> 00:38:32,533 he decides he's going to take a firearm and shoot them both 408 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,133 with the goal of killing them. 409 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,533 That total and absolute lack of caring and attachment for 410 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,834 his parents speaks to very psychopathic thinking 411 00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:43,934 and psychopathic ways of interacting with the world. 412 00:39:14,467 --> 00:39:17,100 [man] Reverend Mark Petric takes the stand in a trial of 413 00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:19,333 his 17-year-old son, Daniel. 414 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,233 Prosecutors say in October of last year, the teenager shot 415 00:39:23,300 --> 00:39:26,567 his father and shot and killed his mother, Sue Petric, 416 00:39:26,567 --> 00:39:29,033 in the living room of their Wellington home. 417 00:39:52,467 --> 00:39:56,233 [Charles] We do know from looking at studies of psychopathy that 418 00:39:56,300 --> 00:40:00,166 many of the signs are evident very early in children's lives, 419 00:40:00,166 --> 00:40:03,066 cruelty to animals and indifference to 420 00:40:03,066 --> 00:40:07,033 the feelings of others, enjoying hurting others 421 00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:10,867 and taking some sense of satisfaction from that. 422 00:40:10,867 --> 00:40:13,166 We've learned from very dangerous serial killers 423 00:40:13,166 --> 00:40:16,767 and psychopaths, most of their behavior 424 00:40:16,767 --> 00:40:18,667 has been long in the works 425 00:40:18,667 --> 00:40:22,266 and has emerged at least after puberty, but the fantasy 426 00:40:22,266 --> 00:40:25,066 material or the torturing of animals has often even been 427 00:40:25,066 --> 00:40:28,000 visible before puberty. 428 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:34,166 I think not being afraid to look at themes of violence or sex 429 00:40:34,166 --> 00:40:38,467 or torture or sadism when those behaviors are shown in kids, 430 00:40:38,467 --> 00:40:41,567 I think not being afraid to look at it candidly and say, 431 00:40:41,567 --> 00:40:43,667 we need to deal with it, um, 432 00:40:43,667 --> 00:40:47,433 we can't avoid it and wish it away and say it'll just vanish, 433 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:49,000 because it won't. 434 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,166 [Nameeta] When we think about children and teenagers who are 435 00:40:54,166 --> 00:40:57,867 exhibiting a lack of empathy, their moral development isn't 436 00:40:57,867 --> 00:41:01,000 progressing like their peer group, and they have a fixation 437 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,900 or a fascination with violence, 438 00:41:03,867 --> 00:41:05,367 they're harming animals, 439 00:41:05,367 --> 00:41:08,433 these are very much early warning signs of budding 440 00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:11,667 psychopathic traits, and they warrant 441 00:41:11,667 --> 00:41:13,133 mental health care. 442 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,166 Maya Angelou said it best, "When people show you who 443 00:41:18,166 --> 00:41:20,166 they are, believe them the first time."