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00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,160
MAN: Shake this square world
and blast off for Kicksville.
2
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,720
NIXON: America's public enemy
number one is drug abuse.
3
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,040
NANCY: Just say no.
4
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,080
MAN: The Mafia is a major
player in the international
5
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,560
drug underworld.
6
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,400
MAN 2: At the end of the day,
it's all about the dollar.
7
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,120
It's all about the dollar.
8
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,640
REAGAN: American people want
the Mob and its associates
9
00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,960
brought to justice
and their power broken.
10
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,120
HARRIS: There's now an
understanding that the war on
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00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,000
drugs was an abject failure.
12
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,800
MAN: You have to stop
and ask yourself,
13
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,720
"How did we get here?"
14
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,240
SHAUN: The first time I took
ecstasy was in Manchester,
15
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,120
thinking, what is this?
16
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,160
This is pretty boring.
17
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,760
Then, all of a sudden, my
knees just completely buckled,
18
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,000
and time just started
to stand still.
19
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,600
RAVER: Woo!
20
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,880
SHAUN: The whole room
is just throbbing,
21
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,800
and everybody is
dancing and the music's
22
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,360
just pulsing into my head.
23
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,000
All these beeps
and weird noises,
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00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,360
like signals from outer space
that I didn't understand are
25
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,400
now completely making sense.
26
00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,800
I never wanted the party
to end after that night.
27
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,880
Raving became my religion.
28
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:42,600
I'm Shawn Attwood,
29
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,280
known as one of the
biggest ecstasy traffickers
30
00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,000
in the US rave scene.
31
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,520
My local nickname
was English Shaun.
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00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,480
I was up against one
of the Cosa Nostra's
most notorious killers.
33
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,520
As a young person,
I set a goal to be
a millionaire by age 30.
34
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,840
"Greed is Good" was my mantra.
35
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,480
I flew out to Arizona because
it had dazzled me as a teenager.
36
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,000
The plane comes in, and
you're looking out the window,
37
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,520
and you're seeing
all these swimming pools
in people's backyards.
38
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,440
The sun's always shining.
39
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,880
It's almost 50 degrees
in the summer and,
40
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,320
as soon as they hear
the English accent,
41
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,160
they roll out the red carpet.
42
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,000
But the rave scene
was barely starting.
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00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,160
They didn't even know
what ecstasy was,
44
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,440
so there was this huge
gap in the market.
45
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,200
(cheering).
46
00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,600
When I threw my first rave,
47
00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,280
looking down at all the
ravers just going off,
48
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,080
with the strobe lights pulsing,
49
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,680
I knew that this was
my calling in life.
50
00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,720
RAVER: It's quarter
to six in the morning.
51
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,080
SHAUN: As an experiment,
52
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,520
I decided to order
1,000 pills out of LA.
53
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,560
All this stuff goes
in one weekend.
54
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440
I've made thousands of
dollars, just like that.
55
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,520
Partying my ass off.
56
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,600
And that was when I decided
to go full time trafficking.
57
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,160
KAREN: One thing about my
father, he is a businessman,
58
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,960
outside of being a gangster.
59
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,800
Some people call it a
racketeer, whatever,
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00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,160
I say he was a businessman
because he knew business.
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00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,520
He's gonna make money.
62
00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,120
My name's Karen Gravano.
63
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,080
I'm the daughter of Salvatore
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano.
64
00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:06,640
He was the under boss of the
Gambino organized crime family,
65
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,400
which was the most powerful
organized crime family
66
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,200
in New York City.
67
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,880
MAN: Gravano was a mean,
vicious, horrible person.
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00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,800
ANCHOR: Better known
as "Sammy the Bull",
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00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,640
a man who pleaded
guilty to 19 murders.
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00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,400
KAREN: My father was
released from prison is 1995.
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00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,760
The FBI wanted him to go
into witness protection,
72
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,000
so he agreed.
73
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,160
He went into the program.
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00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,920
GEORGE: Being a
cooperator, and then,
75
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,400
the witness
protection program,
76
00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,320
and walking away
from the Mafia life,
77
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,240
very few of them
can succeed at it.
78
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,200
It is an enormously
difficult task.
79
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,560
KAREN: There's so
many restrictions.
80
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,080
He wasn't able to talk
to us because we didn't
go in the program,
81
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,080
so he signed himself out,
82
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,760
and he joined my mother
and my brother in Arizona.
83
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,400
My father's main thing
was construction.
84
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,520
He loved construction.
85
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,160
He started a company
called Marathon Development,
86
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,640
which, in New York,
87
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,520
he actually had
Marathon concrete.
88
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,440
He was in the office every
day trying to build this
company from the ground up,
89
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,640
legitimately
creating a business.
90
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,600
He wasn't "Sammy the Bull"
anymore.
91
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,160
He wasn't Salvatore Gravano,
he was Jimmy Moran.
92
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,000
That was the identity
the government gave him.
93
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,280
SHAUN: Ecstasy was going
for $25 to $30 a pill.
94
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,760
I started to source them from
Holland for $2 or $3 a pill.
95
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,520
SHAUN: My smugglers would
bring them over and they went
96
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:29,680
from Holland to France to
Mexico City to Hermosillo,
97
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,720
and over the border
into Arizona.
98
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,160
The most anyone ever brought
on one of those missions
99
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,080
was 40,000 pills.
100
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,320
SHAUN: By 1999 we were
a multi‐million‐dollar
101
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,440
international ecstasy
smuggling ring.
102
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,520
ANCHOR: Use of the
designer drug, ecstasy,
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00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,160
is rising at an alarming rate.
104
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:06,040
ANCHOR 2: By 1999 seizures
increased 300% to three million.
105
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,280
RICH: Ecstasy never carried
that dirty social stigma that
106
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,720
methamphetamine did, or
heroin did, or cocaine did.
107
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,600
So, the younger generation
thought it was OK
108
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,120
to be taking it.
109
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,120
RAVER: And why not just
go a club and, you know,
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00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:20,320
be messed up?
111
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,000
INTERVIEWER: How old are you?
112
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,560
RAVER: 16.
113
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,960
RICH: Next thing you know,
little Johnny's not coming
114
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,840
home 'til the sun's coming up.
115
00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,720
There were times when they'd
start on a Friday night,
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00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,360
and they'd go through Sunday.
117
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,560
MAN: Do you know where
your teenagers are?
118
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,600
This could be the night
your child ventures into a
119
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,800
secretive and, potentially,
dangerous world.
120
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,840
The world of the rave.
121
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,280
RICH: All of a sudden,
we start fielding calls of
122
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,520
complaints from
middle class families.
123
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,080
ANCHOR: There is
reason to be concerned.
124
00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,880
Even one pill of ecstasy
can cause dehydration,
125
00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,680
anxiety and exhaustion.
126
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,040
COPE: When my lieutenant
asked for volunteers,
127
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,440
there wasn't one supervisor
that wanted to volunteer for
128
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,840
that mission because
it wasn't one of them
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00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,200
sexy things to do.
130
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,480
We're doing cocaine,
heroin, meth, marijuana.
131
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,120
I'm Sergeant Jim Cope,
132
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,520
from the Phoenix
Police Department.
133
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,800
I was the junior
drug enforcement
sergeant at the time,
134
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,520
so I got assigned the job.
135
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,600
I drafted Rich Lebel.
136
00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,080
He was our lead undercover
in the whole operation.
137
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,120
At the time,
the spiked‐up hair with
the bleached tips were in,
138
00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,240
so we had
him spike his hair.
139
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,080
We developed the strategy
to go in the raves and
140
00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,080
actually make undercover
purchases at the raves.
141
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,240
RICH: You have to
dress the part,
142
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,360
and it's certainly not stuff
I would wear on a daily basis.
143
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,240
You walk inside
and, right away,
144
00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,440
the music makes your insides
vibrate because it's so loud,
145
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,000
and it's thumping over
and over and over,
146
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,080
with strobe lights
and lights flashing.
147
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,120
It's all, sort of, hypnotic.
148
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,400
SHAUN: The vibe was peace,
love, unity and respect.
149
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:38,800
There was no violence.
150
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,800
There was no Scarface
level activity.
151
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,200
RICH: Once you were inside,
they were super trusting.
152
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,920
Somebody would walk by you,
and they'd ask you,
153
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,440
"Hey, do you need any E?"
154
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,600
And we would just
be making buys.
155
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,000
SHAUN: All of a sudden,
I received mass reports of
156
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,520
these guys that
stood out selling ecstasy.
157
00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:23,000
These were big,
steroid head characters
in shiny polyester shirts.
158
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:27,840
I'm wondering,
who the hell are these guys?
159
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,520
They wanted to have
a meeting with me.
160
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,400
So, I sit down between
these two guys.
161
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,040
The friendlier one, he says,
162
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,960
"English Shaun, why don't you
start moving some of our pills?"
163
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,040
And, I say, "Look, I've
got a good reputation.
164
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,360
Why would we wanna be
getting your stuff?"
165
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,440
Then the big guy just jumps
up off the sofa and says,
166
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,280
"Who the (bleep) are you
disrespecting our pills."
167
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,320
He throws out
this name, Jimmy Moran,
168
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,960
and I'm not familiar
with that name, and then,
169
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,680
he follows it up with,
170
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,080
"One call to
"Sammy the Bull" and we can
171
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,280
have you taken out
to the desert."
172
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,560
Now, that stopped
me in my tracks,
173
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,880
because I've seen John Gotti
174
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,480
and Sammy "The Bull" Gravano
on the news.
175
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,480
These guys are the
Gambino crime family.
176
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,000
KAREN: I went to
dinner with my father.
177
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,920
I wanted to sit down
and know all the things
178
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,960
that I never asked before
when I was kid.
179
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,880
I didn't want him to be my
father and try to protect me.
180
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,040
I wanted him to tell
me the truth and,
181
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,640
for the first time
in my life, like,
182
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,760
my father started telling me
about the Mob, and, you know,
183
00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,680
about the things that he did.
184
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,440
You know, my father was
accused of 19 murders.
185
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,040
I wanted to know, like,
did you kill someone?
186
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,240
What was is like?
187
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,080
He looked me in the
face and was, like,
188
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,200
"It was, honestly, a rush."
189
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,680
It was like an adrenalin rush,
to be able to take another life.
190
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,760
Um, I didn't expect
him to say that.
191
00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,000
RICH: I was probably
a little bit shocked
that he got the five.
192
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,320
19 murders, five years.
193
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,520
How can anybody confess to
that many murders and then do
194
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,280
five years in prison?
195
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,320
MAN: I think it's clear
that "Sammy the Bull" is
a marked man.
196
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,320
There are Mob members
that would love to kill him.
197
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,600
There are wannabees that
would love to kill him just
198
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,440
to add to their reputation.
199
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,200
GEORGE: He's, basically thrown
all the rules out the window.
200
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,800
But the biggest one is
being omertà, right?
201
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,960
He's destroyed
the oath of secrecy.
202
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,600
"Sammy the Bull" is
now "Sammy the Rat".
203
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,560
He's still working with us
on cases and information.
204
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,960
It was in my best interest,
as the government,
205
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,600
to make sure that
this guy survived and
played by the rules.
206
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,960
(cheering).
207
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,440
SHAUN: With this new
breed of ecstasy dealers
infiltrating my raves,
208
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,600
there was this change in
the atmosphere at the party.
209
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,840
Pills were cut with all
kinds of toxic substances.
210
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,040
People were tripping.
211
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,400
People felt like they
were on crystal meth.
212
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,440
All kinds of bad
reports were coming in,
213
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,800
and violent episodes occurred.
214
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,600
When my top
ecstasy salesperson got
his teeth smashed out,
215
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,840
in the back of my mind then,
I'm thinking
216
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,400
these guys wanna
take me out to the desert.
217
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,040
Sammy the Bull.
218
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,760
You can't mess around
with people who've got
219
00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,880
that lethal reputation.
220
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,240
I got so scared I moved over
100 miles to Tucson, Arizona,
221
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,120
to live in a gated,
guarded community.
222
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,080
COPE: When Rich Lebel was
up to 250 to 500 pill buys,
223
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,520
the suspects we were
dealing with said,
224
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,400
"Hey, if you guys are gonna
be players in this market,
225
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,320
you'd better be careful
because the New York guys
are running everything,
226
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,320
and you're gonna have to
pay tax on your pills to them."
227
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,560
Rich is from the East Coast,
228
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,480
and I'm from the East Coast,
and we were both, like,
229
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,880
New York guys.
230
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,680
You know, we're in
Arizona, whatever.
231
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,680
We didn't take it
serious at all.
232
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:41,160
You gotta realize, at the time,
The Sopranos was in.
233
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,800
They were all striving to be
some young gangster, you know?
234
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,000
Some mobster.
235
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,160
These are just kids talking.
236
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,600
DENNIS: I got a tip that
Sammy the Bull Gravano was
237
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,040
hanging out in Arizona under
the assumed name of Jimmy Moran.
238
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,560
Um, I wasn't sure exactly
how to go about this.
239
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,640
It's not like you got out
and interview Mafia hit men
240
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,360
all the time.
241
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,040
I found that he had a
construction company.
242
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,240
I drove around
Marathon Development, like,
243
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,920
two or three times thinking,
what am I gonna do here?
244
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,080
It was in a big warehouse
district of Phoenix.
245
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,840
Kind of, a junkie area,
and it had a little foyer,
246
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,280
and there was a
little bell there,
247
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:41,680
and there was nobody upfront,
248
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:43,480
at the front desk
so I rang the bell.
249
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:44,720
(ding)
250
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,040
And, out of the office
walks Sammy the Bull Gravano,
251
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,200
and he walked
straight up to me,
252
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,160
and he had these
shark‐like eyes and he said,
253
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,800
"What the
(bleep) do you want?"
254
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,040
And, I said, "Mr. Gravano,
255
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,680
I wanna interview you",
and he kept saying,
256
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,080
"You don't know anything
about me", and I said,
257
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,480
"Well, I know that you're
responsible for something
like 18 homicides",
258
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,840
and he says, "Get your
(bleep) facts straight.
259
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,560
It's 19."
260
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,680
And that just blew me away.
261
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,360
He said,
"If you do this story,
262
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:33,200
people are gonna get killed.
It's not a good idea."
263
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,120
KAREN: My father just
came home from prison.
264
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,800
My mother and brother
bought a restaurant.
265
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,120
Everyone always thinks that
we picked the name "Uncle Sal"
266
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,960
as the best kept
secret in Scottsdale.
267
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,120
KAREN: When they
bought the restaurant,
268
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,920
it was already
called Uncle Sal's.
269
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,720
I mean, yes, we laughed
about it, and it was, like,
270
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,840
Salvatore Gravano,
Uncle Sal's.
271
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,720
It's ours. We're taking it.
272
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,560
We joke at home,
but I think my mother's
the real gangster here.
273
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,640
My mother's name's Debbie.
274
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,800
She came to Arizona
with all the money.
275
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,080
So she financed things,
whether it was the restaurant,
276
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,760
or whatever it was.
277
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,920
My brother, Gerard,
he was a chef working
in the restaurant.
278
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,680
I'd just had my daughter,
and my brother had a son,
279
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,040
and we were doing good.
280
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,920
We were working hard, we
were staying out of trouble,
281
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:33,840
and we were just really,
282
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,600
honestly building
our family back up.
283
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:47,520
(splash)
284
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,200
GEORGE: Word came back to me
that a reporter by the name of
285
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,720
Dennis Wagner was
gonna write a story and we
286
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,240
wanted to stop it.
287
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,760
DENNIS: My publisher was
on a cruise in the Caribbean
288
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:07,040
and a shore to
ship call was made by the
FBI trying to convince my
289
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,560
publisher not to
run the story.
290
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,800
(phone ringing)
291
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,640
GEORGE: You print this
story and expose this guy,
292
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,400
all you're gonna do
is get him killed.
293
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,760
The story's not as important
as you think it is.
294
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,520
This guy's life is.
295
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,880
(tone)
296
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,880
DENNIS: It was picked up by
media all over the world.
297
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,080
It was, kind of, an
explosion in that sense.
298
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,640
GEORGE: We knew the Gambino
family were actively trying to
299
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:59,120
figure out where he was and
how to set up on him, and now,
300
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:00,720
all of a sudden,
301
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,440
they were able to
start tracking him down.
302
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,280
KAREN: Once that newspaper
article came out,
303
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,400
it made everyone
start looking at us.
304
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,360
That was actually the start
of everything going bad for my
305
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:17,600
family in Arizona.
306
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,880
All the kids that were,
you knew, Mob groupies,
307
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,320
or whatever you
wanna call them,
308
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,000
infatuated with that lifestyle.
309
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,200
"Oh, Sammy the Bull's here."
310
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,480
"Oh, his family
owns this restaurant."
311
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,320
And that's what drew the
attention of the wrong people.
312
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,080
My brother was working
in the restaurant.
313
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,200
This guy came in, and he
threw $1,000 on the table,
314
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,400
and he told Gerard, "Here,
put this in your pocket.
315
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,840
Come out with us tonight.
316
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:52,920
We're gonna go to the clubs.
317
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,240
Everything is on
me, and, by the way,
318
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,280
I love your father."
319
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,520
So, that's how Mike Papa
comes into the whole picture.
320
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,760
That's how this whole
ecstasy thing started.
321
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,280
Mike Papa was a sharp kid.
322
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,520
He dressed nice.
323
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,680
He was a good‐looking kid.
He knew how to talk.
324
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,640
He had the New York hustle,
325
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,760
because he was
originally from New York.
326
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,400
So, Gerard, building his
friendship with Mike Papa,
327
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,680
started going to
clubs with him.
328
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,760
Gerard started seeing
that this guy's, you know,
329
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,880
he's selling pills,
he's selling ecstasy.
330
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,760
Mike Papa was a big, big
person in that rave scene.
331
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,320
COPE: As our investigation
was progressing,
332
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,920
we kept hearing the rumors
about the New York guys.
333
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,520
I was at the gym working out,
an acquaintance of mine said,
334
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,320
"Hey, do you know
anything about some kind
of crazy club drug or...",
335
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,760
he called it a "sex drug".
336
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,280
He goes, "All these
young kids are, at the gym,
337
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,240
bragging about how much money
they're making off these pills",
338
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,560
and he named
Mike Papa, and he goes,
339
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,240
"You're not gonna believe it,
they say they're being backed
340
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,240
by Sammy the Bull Gravano."
341
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:36,760
RICH: When I first
started hearing about the
342
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,840
Gravano name being involved
in the ecstasy scene,
343
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,320
you know,
I said to myself,
344
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,280
Sammy would be crazy to get
involved in any of this stuff.
345
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,960
COPE: I think we
have something here.
346
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,640
But I've already had to
convince everybody, hey,
347
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,160
there's something to
this with this drug ecstasy,
348
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,360
you know, and now,
349
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,520
I'm gonna say, "I think
Sammy the Bull Gravano,
350
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,360
a legendary Mafia
hit man is also involved."
351
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,560
People would think I was crazy.
352
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,000
KAREN: Mike Papa started to
come into the restaurant and
353
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,720
my father finally met him.
354
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,280
My father was,
you know, "Who is this guy?"
355
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,280
He wasn't introduced
to my father as,
356
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,400
"Oh, this is our drug
dealing friend, Mike Papa,
357
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,080
who sells ecstasy at raves."
358
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,200
It's, like,
"This is our friend Mike.
359
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,600
He goes to ASU.
He's a college student.
360
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,480
He's from New York."
361
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,560
My father was anti‐drug,
362
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,800
and so adamant about
Gerard and I having the
straight and narrow path,
363
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,840
building a life
that is unbreakable.
364
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,360
But, unfortunately,
we (bleep) up.
365
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,880
(sirens)
366
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,800
OFFICER: We see ecstasy
coming from Canada.
367
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,520
Unfortunately,
the ecstasy and Molly,
368
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,560
it's actually caused
death, here in Detroit.
369
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,280
OFFICER: Any time where
there's drugs involved,
370
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,120
you know, you're dealing
with a lot of money.
371
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:26,000
People tend to use guns.
372
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,680
MAN: The DJs are selling
the dope and it's coming
373
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,320
out of the bathroom too.
374
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,160
OFFICER: The door, the door.
375
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,320
Search warrant,
gotta go, gotta go.
376
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,920
Move by the door, the door.
377
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,400
OFFICER 2: Face down.
Face down.
378
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,520
Straighten your legs out.
Straighten your legs out.
379
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,000
Face down.
Look at the floor.
380
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,280
Don't be looking around.
This ain't entertainment.
381
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,400
Keep your hands
where I can see them.
382
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,640
Wanna get cuffed up?
383
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,360
Look at the floor.
384
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,640
OFFICER: You have
any guns on you?
385
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,400
MAN: No.
386
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,640
OFFICER: Got a gun right here.
387
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,720
It was loaded.
I just cleared it.
388
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,360
Put your hands on the floor.
389
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:23,520
Crawl out now.
390
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:24,800
Crawl backwards.
Crawl backwards.
391
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,520
Now, move.
392
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:27,960
What do you have?
393
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,560
Coke in there.
394
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,280
Tried dumping the coke.
395
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,600
Toilet doesn't flush.
It didn't work.
396
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,120
Looks like a pretty good
size piece of crystal meth.
397
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,280
Ecstasy. Heroin. Crack cocaine.
398
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,800
Good job, guys.
399
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,240
COPE: As we were progressing
and learning that, you know,
400
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,600
there's a possibility
that Sammy the Bull Gravano
401
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,240
was involved,
402
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,160
I knew we were gonna have
to take it to another level,
403
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,720
and I said, "You know,
I'm gonna sit down with Ron."
404
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,320
STERRETT:
My name's Ron Sterrett,
405
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,560
and I was the
lead detective for the
Phoenix Police Department
406
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,920
in the Gravano ecstasy
trafficking investigation.
407
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,560
I didn't believe that Sammy
would be associating with
408
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,960
college kids selling
drugs, quite honestly.
409
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,960
I thought that was
beneath his level.
410
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,760
But, when we obtained
Mike Papa's phone number,
411
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,120
it was subscribed to
Marathon Development.
412
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,840
COPE: It, right away,
hit me a business that Sammy
413
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,040
ran back in
New York was Marathon.
414
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,520
STERRETT: So,
the link was created.
415
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,480
Mike Papa, who was involved in
ecstasy trafficking worked for
416
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,120
Sammy at Marathon Development.
417
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,080
STERRETT: When it
comes to the wire tap,
418
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,200
we were going to go up,
initially, on Mike Papa.
419
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,280
STERRETT: He was horribly
undisciplined on the phone and
420
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,520
would talk at
length about their drug
trafficking activities.
421
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,200
If the rumors were true that
Sammy Gravano's involved,
422
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,680
Mike Papa and Mike Papa's
phone would walk us directly
423
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,320
into that evidence.
424
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,280
STERRETT: But, actually,
the link was created
425
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,200
to Gerard Gravano.
426
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,040
KAREN: When Gerard got involved
in the ecstasy business,
427
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,640
all of a sudden,
it went from the Mike Papa
428
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,880
investigation to the
Gravano investigation,
429
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,160
because they realized that
this is Sammy the Bull's son.
430
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,080
COPE: During our wiretap I
kept seeing this light‐colored
431
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,880
Mercury Marquis out
on surveillance.
432
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,600
I would always come into
the wire room and I'd say,
433
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,360
"Hey, I think there's
some other dudes out
there following this guy",
434
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,880
and, because of the
shape of the car, I'm, like,
435
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,760
"Maybe it's another cop?"
436
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,640
KAREN: My father started
feeling like people were
437
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,040
following him, and he said,
438
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,320
"Listen, I don't know
if it's the cops,
439
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,760
if it's people
from New York,
440
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,800
but I feel like
something is going on."
441
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,320
COPE: Everybody
told me I was crazy.
442
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,520
There's nobody else, and I'm,
like, "I keep seeing this car.
443
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Something's up with this car."
444
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,360
GEORGE: The whole time
Sammy was out in Arizona
445
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,680
we knew Gotti had given
the contract on Sammy.
446
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,000
'He screwed us.
You gotta go get him.'
447
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,520
STERRETT: During the wiretap
the kids made constant
448
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:58,920
reference to "The Big Guy".
449
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,400
STERRETT: Every now and
again somebody would slip
and call him Sammy.
450
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,160
COPE: They openly referred
to Gravano, you know,
451
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,200
when they were trying
to feel important or
show off to their friends.
452
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,560
KAREN: Mike Papa is
talking about "'The Big Man'
takes 50 cents",
453
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,000
so he can't drop the price.
454
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,160
That's Mike saying,
455
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,560
"I'm not gonna
drop my price",
456
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,240
and using my
father as leverage.
457
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,400
"If you got a problem,
go talk to Sammy the Bull."
458
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,000
STERRETT: We really
believed Sammy's name
was being thrown out by
459
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,600
these younger kids as a
point of intimidation.
460
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:53,840
COPE: So, the
speculation was always,
461
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,800
are we gonna get to
Sammy the Bull Gravano?
462
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,920
(tone)
463
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,160
(dialing)
464
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,400
COPE: In January of 2000,
465
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,120
Ron Sterrett
and the investigative team
466
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,400
start intercepting
calls between a supplier in
467
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,000
California and Mike Papa.
468
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,480
(ringing)
469
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,440
COPE: As those
calls progressed,
470
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,920
we realized a large
shipment of 25,000 pills were
471
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,120
gonna be coming in from LA.
472
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,000
STERRETT: We knew exactly
where the exchange of money
473
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,520
and pills was
gonna take place.
474
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,960
STERRETT: They met at a
hamburger place real close to
475
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,600
Arizona State University.
476
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,600
We saw the bag of ecstasy
coming into possession
477
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:58,960
of Mike Papa.
478
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,560
We followed Mike Papa directly
back to Marathon Development,
479
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,880
and saw Mike Papa
carry the bag in.
480
00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:13,760
(camera shutter)
481
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,400
COPE: It was just amazing how
fast those pills were gone.
482
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,840
They were distributed in
the Phoenix metropolitan area,
483
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,560
and I don't think
they lasted a week.
484
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,760
(busy signal)
485
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,480
It got frustrating because
we weren't getting the
486
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,520
confirmation that Sammy
was involved with this
487
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,480
ecstasy thing that the
kids were doing.
488
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,480
All of the ecstasy purchases
were being done by Mike Papa.
489
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,040
Gerard was right there.
490
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,680
He was a distributor that was
giving it to the other parties
491
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,320
that were going out
and selling the pills.
492
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,920
(ringing)
493
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,920
GEORGE: The whole time
I'm dealing with Sammy,
494
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,400
there were no indications he
was doing anything other than
495
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,080
running his business,
496
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,560
helping the family with
the Italian restaurant,
497
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:34,960
and trying to be legitimate.
498
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,680
I had no doubt that that's
what was going on with him.
499
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,440
(dialing)
500
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,480
(ringing)
501
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,520
STERRETT: That call came
in somewhere between 11:00
502
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,280
in the evening to
1:00 in the morning.
503
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:29,400
A normal business doesn't
pay somebody at 11:00 in the
504
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,000
evening for a gas receipt.
505
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,400
$70 for gas receipts,
506
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,720
we knew that that
was code for $70,000
507
00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:39,240
for the ecstasy.
508
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,320
STERRETT: Gerard and
Mike Papa needed to ask Sammy
509
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,520
to front the $70,000
for the next shipment.
510
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,000
That brought him right into
the middle of the financing of
511
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,760
the ecstasy organization.
512
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,760
I can't believe
Gravano was so stupid to be
513
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,680
caught doing these types
of things with these kids.
514
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,240
The prosecutor came
down to the wire room and
515
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,720
listened to the phone call.
516
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,240
SAMMY: Can she
do it right away?
517
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,440
STERRETT: And said, "We've got
the evidence that I'm looking
518
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,480
for to charge Sammy."
519
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,520
COPE: Yeah, we got him.
520
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,280
We got enough.
We got enough for everybody.
521
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,960
This whole group is done.
522
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,080
KAREN: We come to find out
Gotti had sent a hit team down
523
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,240
to Arizona.
524
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:45,040
STERRETT: There was
a plan to kill Sammy where
Sammy parked his car.
525
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,440
The individual was set up in
a position across the street
526
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,960
with a high‐powered rifle.
527
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,440
KAREN: My father would have
never laid down lightly.
528
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,640
It's no secret that,
at that particular time,
529
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,080
he had guns.
530
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,000
If some gun battle
was going off,
531
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,520
he's coming out shooting.
532
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,360
Everybody was ready for
whatever was gonna happen.
533
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,640
♪ ♪
534
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,440
COPE: There was probably
200 tactical officers at
535
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:27,960
that meeting from
different agencies.
536
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,800
So, I have a lot
of guys there.
537
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,360
They're not real happy
about being up so early.
538
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,800
But the attention level on
the room definitely heightened
539
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,680
when we told them
who was involved,
540
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,320
and what the case was about.
541
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,000
(siren)
542
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,880
STERRETT: We wanted to use the
cover of darkness to minimize
543
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,360
any potential risk to the
officers or Sammy getting
544
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:02,720
involved in a shooting.
545
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,280
STERRETT:
When they made entry,
546
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,360
Sammy was crawling on the
floor toward getting a gun.
547
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,760
I think he thought it was
the Mob coming after him.
548
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,080
He surrendered,
was handcuffed,
549
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,560
and brought to the facility
where I was waiting for him.
550
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,360
COPE: He was a
really sharp guy.
551
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,600
I could tell he was scanning
every document he could to try
552
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,760
to figure out how bad
it is and what's going on.
553
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,480
STERRETT: I told him 'you're
being arrested for conspiracy
554
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,200
to distribute
dangerous drugs,
555
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,200
and he just kinda
leaned his head back and
closed his eyes and signed,
556
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,560
like, jeez, I can't
believe I got caught for this.
557
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,240
But, quite honestly, we feel
we saved Sammy's life by
558
00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:52,760
arresting him a
few days before he was
559
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,480
gonna get killed.
560
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,760
REPORTER: He insisted he was a
hard‐working businessman,
561
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,720
who had settled into his
new law‐abiding life.
562
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,240
But a tiger doesn't
change his stripes.
563
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,200
REPORTER 2: And authorities
say it was a family affair.
564
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,240
KAREN: I made mistakes.
565
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,000
Did I know that there
was ecstasy being sold?
566
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,520
Yes.
567
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,760
Was I involved in,
maybe, some of the talks?
568
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,440
Yes.
569
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,120
Me and my brother,
we (bleep) up.
570
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,480
ANCHOR: The crime
ring, allegedly,
571
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,480
distributed up to 30,000 pills
a week of the drug ecstasy.
572
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,880
GEORGE: He beyond
stabbed us in the back,
573
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,520
it was betrayal.
574
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,360
I mean, it was the
stupidest thing he could do.
575
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,880
It was the worst
thing he could do.
576
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,360
Nobody was gonna
save him this time.
577
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,520
REPORTER: The turncoat who
sent so many mobsters to jail
578
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,640
could soon be joining them.
579
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,880
RICH: I was over at
Mike Papa's residence
580
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,520
when we arrested Mike.
581
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,160
I thought Mike would be one
of the ones who cooperated.
582
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,000
REPORTER: He might just be the
most famous snitch of all time,
583
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,560
but now Salvatore
"Sammy the Bull" Gravano
584
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,480
has had the tables turned.
585
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,480
GEORGE: That's the
nature of drug dealing.
586
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,320
People are always gonna
be ratting people out and
587
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,120
pointing fingers
at one another.
588
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,280
KAREN: Once Mike Papa started
cooperating with the government,
589
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,240
they threw everything at us.
590
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,160
They threw charges at my mother.
They threw charges at me.
591
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,280
They threw charges
at my brother.
592
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,800
My father's now boxed in.
593
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,240
(sighs).
594
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,720
You know, I don't think
people understand.
595
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,080
My father didn't get involved
in the drug business because
596
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,160
he wanted to sell drugs.
597
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:57,000
My father stepped in because
he wanted to save my brother.
598
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,720
His biggest fear was Gerard
was gonna get killed on a
599
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,040
drug deal gone bad, and
someone was gonna make a
600
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,680
name for themselves for
killing Sammy the Bull's son.
601
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,120
Family's everything
to my father.
602
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,680
He would never let us
jump in quicksand without
jumping in with us.
603
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,680
And that's why Sammy the Bull
got involved in drug dealing.
604
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,480
STERRETT: There was a belief,
when Sammy ultimately took
605
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,200
responsibility
for what he did,
606
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,040
that he was doing it on behalf
of his family and, certainly,
607
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,160
that plea agreement did
mitigate Gerard's exposure.
608
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,960
It certainly helped Karen out.
609
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,760
SAMMY: I believe you
and this court have been very
fair with me and my family,
610
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,080
and I appreciate it very much.
611
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,560
STERRETT: In my view,
a lot of the Mafia members,
612
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,480
despite this Godfather
script of we don't get
613
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,960
involved in drugs,
they get involved in drugs.
614
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,120
They get involved in
anything that makes money,
615
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,960
and drugs is an extremely
fast way to make a lot of money.
616
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,200
GEORGE: I mean, the fact is,
617
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,000
he was a murderer,
but we still talk,
618
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,880
and I look forward to
conversations with the guy.
619
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,320
You know, if he
was sitting here today,
620
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,000
he would tell you,
straight faced,
621
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,880
"I wasn't a drug dealer."
622
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,040
You got convicted of it.
623
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:07,640
Captioned by
Cotter Media Group.