1 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,265 I have to try not to scooch toward you a little bit. 2 00:00:14,558 --> 00:00:17,185 -Those are the wedding bells. -Yes. 3 00:00:18,228 --> 00:00:19,229 Okay. 4 00:00:19,312 --> 00:00:20,564 -Ready? -Yes. 5 00:00:21,147 --> 00:00:24,859 Marriage is beautiful. Marriage is heart-wrenching. 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,782 You sort of get submerged into some other person's being. 7 00:00:30,865 --> 00:00:33,118 Not every day is easy or a walk in the park, 8 00:00:33,702 --> 00:00:35,954 but that commitment means you don't give up. 9 00:00:36,037 --> 00:00:40,834 Loving and being loved is the most difficult, bravest, 10 00:00:40,917 --> 00:00:44,754 most vulnerable experience that any human being will have. 11 00:00:44,838 --> 00:00:49,384 Well, and "love" is a verb, so it's a continual journey. 12 00:00:49,467 --> 00:00:53,763 It's a continual act of bravery and gutsiness, 13 00:00:53,847 --> 00:00:56,433 and for some women in some places, defiance. 14 00:00:56,516 --> 00:00:59,352 You know, part of being gutsy is learning to love 15 00:00:59,436 --> 00:01:01,271 in whatever way feels right to you. 16 00:01:01,354 --> 00:01:06,776 Part of the struggle that women have faced from literally the beginning of time, 17 00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:11,823 is to have that agency, that freedom, that autonomy 18 00:01:11,907 --> 00:01:14,409 to make the choices that are right for us. 19 00:01:16,578 --> 00:01:18,663 I'm curious about exploring relationships 20 00:01:18,747 --> 00:01:20,457 in all of their complexity 21 00:01:20,540 --> 00:01:24,294 and finding people who forged their own paths in love. 22 00:01:27,088 --> 00:01:28,256 What do we want? 23 00:01:28,340 --> 00:01:30,300 End child marriage! 24 00:01:30,383 --> 00:01:32,719 I successfully did "till death do us part." 25 00:01:32,802 --> 00:01:34,262 Okay, Chelsea! 26 00:01:36,806 --> 00:01:37,933 Mazel tov! 27 00:01:46,358 --> 00:01:49,069 Hey. Get it, got it. Hot. 28 00:01:51,863 --> 00:01:57,786 Falling in love is feeling 100% comfortable in your skin 29 00:01:58,370 --> 00:02:00,747 around the person that you're with. 30 00:02:02,249 --> 00:02:04,292 Being in love is, when you're with someone, 31 00:02:04,376 --> 00:02:06,962 that you always wanna be with them, no matter what time of day it is, 32 00:02:07,045 --> 00:02:10,006 no matter what you're doing. Every day it gets better and better. 33 00:02:10,090 --> 00:02:11,675 That's really nice. 34 00:02:19,224 --> 00:02:22,769 The two of you just seem, like, and I know this is such a cliché, 35 00:02:22,852 --> 00:02:23,853 made for each other. 36 00:02:24,854 --> 00:02:26,940 You met at a librarian conference? 37 00:02:27,023 --> 00:02:28,567 -Yes. -Super sexy. 38 00:02:28,650 --> 00:02:29,484 Far-out sexy. 39 00:02:29,568 --> 00:02:34,155 I mean, I love libraries. I love librarians. 40 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:36,783 So it just seems like the perfect meet-cute to me. 41 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,159 Yes. 42 00:02:39,035 --> 00:02:42,664 I have been a fan of Abby's for literally decades. 43 00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:47,836 Abby Wambach is one of the greatest soccer players… 44 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,422 -Of all time. -…of all time. Man or woman. 45 00:02:50,505 --> 00:02:52,424 -Yes. -Anywhere in the world. 46 00:02:52,507 --> 00:02:55,093 We're really enthusiastic, 'cause we're talking over each other. 47 00:02:55,176 --> 00:02:59,306 And Glennon Doyle, who started off with a Christian mommy blog. 48 00:02:59,389 --> 00:03:02,934 -The first thing is that all these women… -She's an author, a podcaster, 49 00:03:03,018 --> 00:03:06,438 someone who seems plugged into the universe. 50 00:03:07,522 --> 00:03:12,027 The two of them have created this amazing marriage. 51 00:03:12,569 --> 00:03:13,904 Talk about rebel hearts. 52 00:03:14,779 --> 00:03:18,241 They had to risk so much to give their love a chance. 53 00:03:18,742 --> 00:03:22,871 And it was really hard to figure out how to build a life together, 54 00:03:22,954 --> 00:03:23,830 and they have. 55 00:03:25,665 --> 00:03:29,377 I was in a very broken marriage to a good man. 56 00:03:29,461 --> 00:03:35,550 And then I was at the convention, and she showed up in the doorway. 57 00:03:35,634 --> 00:03:39,221 I found myself standing up, and I just opened my arms like this. 58 00:03:40,222 --> 00:03:42,599 I realized everyone was staring at me, so I actually bowed. 59 00:03:42,682 --> 00:03:43,934 I was thinking, 60 00:03:44,017 --> 00:03:45,810 maybe she'll just think I'm a weird writer, 61 00:03:45,894 --> 00:03:47,270 and I bow when people come in. 62 00:03:48,313 --> 00:03:52,108 -Well, then, did you bow in response? -She was the only one that stood up… 63 00:03:52,192 --> 00:03:54,277 -Obviously. -…and she's on the opposite side 64 00:03:54,361 --> 00:03:56,947 of the room, and it's like a table that's pushed against-- 65 00:03:57,030 --> 00:04:00,825 So I had to sidestep my way all the way around the room. 66 00:04:00,909 --> 00:04:01,743 It was so weird. 67 00:04:01,826 --> 00:04:04,496 The whole thing was so weird. I was sweating so much. 68 00:04:04,579 --> 00:04:08,625 But I realized that I was in love for the first time in my life. 69 00:04:08,708 --> 00:04:10,627 And it was terrifying, because I was married 70 00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:11,753 and I had three children. 71 00:04:11,836 --> 00:04:16,550 I had a faith-based life and a career that was largely based on that. 72 00:04:17,132 --> 00:04:19,052 I was told over and over again, 73 00:04:19,134 --> 00:04:23,056 "You can pursue this, but it will be the end of your career." 74 00:04:23,974 --> 00:04:26,268 But I just remember thinking, 75 00:04:26,351 --> 00:04:29,771 this is this major crossroads where you are gonna have to decide 76 00:04:30,438 --> 00:04:36,152 whether you are going to honor yourself for the first time in your life, 77 00:04:36,236 --> 00:04:39,406 instead of honoring everyone else's expectations of you. 78 00:04:40,073 --> 00:04:43,076 Then one day, I was watching my little one get ready for school. 79 00:04:43,159 --> 00:04:46,037 And I thought, oh, my God, I am staying in this marriage for her. 80 00:04:46,121 --> 00:04:48,582 But would I want this marriage for her? 81 00:04:48,665 --> 00:04:51,167 And if I wouldn't want this marriage for this little girl, 82 00:04:51,251 --> 00:04:54,087 why am I modeling bad love and calling that good mothering? 83 00:04:54,170 --> 00:04:57,132 We just kind of said, "We're gonna do this." 84 00:04:57,215 --> 00:04:59,718 And we did it as carefully 85 00:04:59,801 --> 00:05:02,053 and with as much honor and love as we could. 86 00:05:02,137 --> 00:05:05,015 Everybody freaked out in the beginning, because that's what people do. 87 00:05:05,098 --> 00:05:08,184 Then they came around, because they saw that we were okay and happy, 88 00:05:08,268 --> 00:05:10,312 and I'm glad we just knew. 89 00:05:10,395 --> 00:05:11,855 How long have you been married? 90 00:05:12,522 --> 00:05:14,816 I've been married 11 years. 91 00:05:15,483 --> 00:05:18,778 I don't have a story like yours, definitely. 92 00:05:18,862 --> 00:05:20,238 You didn't do that? 93 00:05:20,322 --> 00:05:24,200 I didn't. I met my husband when we were kids, 94 00:05:24,910 --> 00:05:28,121 and we were friends for more than a dozen years… 95 00:05:28,204 --> 00:05:30,624 -Wow. -…before we started dating. Yeah. 96 00:05:30,707 --> 00:05:33,209 How did you go from friends to-- like, how did you know? 97 00:05:33,293 --> 00:05:35,212 We'd both broken up with other people. 98 00:05:35,712 --> 00:05:38,423 We were kind of comforting each other about the fact 99 00:05:38,506 --> 00:05:40,133 -that we'd broken up. -Uh-huh. 100 00:05:40,217 --> 00:05:42,260 One night, I think we were having dinner. 101 00:05:42,344 --> 00:05:43,887 He was like, "I think we're on a date." 102 00:05:43,970 --> 00:05:45,931 -I was like, "Are we?" -Oh, my gosh. 103 00:05:46,014 --> 00:05:48,892 "Maybe we are. Are we on a date?" And that was the beginning. 104 00:05:49,809 --> 00:05:53,063 Not that he needed to and not that he did ask our permission. 105 00:05:53,146 --> 00:05:55,357 He just drove out to see us one day and said, 106 00:05:55,857 --> 00:05:58,318 "I just want you to know I'm gonna ask her to marry me." 107 00:05:58,401 --> 00:05:59,319 And I thought, "Yes!" 108 00:06:00,278 --> 00:06:02,072 I like the not asking, 109 00:06:02,155 --> 00:06:04,950 -but respectfully informing. I like that. -Yes. Letting you know. 110 00:06:05,033 --> 00:06:07,535 I literally asked her parents. 111 00:06:07,619 --> 00:06:11,539 Talked to them and got home, and I had a whole plan. 112 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,083 But I couldn't wait. 113 00:06:13,166 --> 00:06:16,628 I remember going into my sock drawer, getting the ring, turning around. 114 00:06:16,711 --> 00:06:20,173 She's like, "Can I get you coffee?" As soon as she walked back, I was there. 115 00:06:20,257 --> 00:06:22,926 I was like, I just-- I cannot wait another second. 116 00:06:23,009 --> 00:06:25,679 Like-- Didn't your husband have to propose to you 117 00:06:25,762 --> 00:06:28,515 -a billion times before you said yes? -Forty-nine times? 118 00:06:28,598 --> 00:06:30,725 Something-- No, only three. 119 00:06:30,809 --> 00:06:32,435 -Only three. -Okay. Only three. 120 00:06:32,519 --> 00:06:36,898 We met in law school. He was like this force of nature. 121 00:06:36,982 --> 00:06:39,651 When we graduated, he asked me to marry him. 122 00:06:39,734 --> 00:06:42,946 And I said, "You know, I'm just not ready to get married." 123 00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:46,074 A year from then, he asked me again. 124 00:06:46,157 --> 00:06:48,994 He was back in Arkansas running for Congress. 125 00:06:49,077 --> 00:06:52,497 I was working on the impeachment staff to impeach Richard Nixon… 126 00:06:52,581 --> 00:06:54,207 Okay. Just real quick. 127 00:06:54,291 --> 00:06:56,710 -We had a lot going on in our lives. -No biggie. 128 00:06:56,793 --> 00:06:59,504 And I said, you know, "Let's wait." 129 00:06:59,588 --> 00:07:04,009 So I moved to Arkansas with a job teaching at the law school, 130 00:07:04,092 --> 00:07:05,802 and the end of the semester, 131 00:07:06,803 --> 00:07:09,097 I said, "I think I'm gonna go just take a trip around 132 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:11,016 and see if I'm really committed to this." 133 00:07:11,641 --> 00:07:14,477 He's driving me to the airport, and we go by this little house. 134 00:07:15,061 --> 00:07:17,981 And I'm just making conversation. I say, "That's a cute house." 135 00:07:18,064 --> 00:07:19,482 Literally, that's all I said. 136 00:07:19,566 --> 00:07:21,151 I come back, he picks me up at the airport, 137 00:07:21,234 --> 00:07:24,321 -he goes, "I bought that house you liked." -Oh, my gosh. 138 00:07:24,404 --> 00:07:28,199 -"Now you have to marry me." -Oh, my gosh, yes. 139 00:07:28,283 --> 00:07:29,284 So, I did. 140 00:07:30,118 --> 00:07:33,330 -He bought sheets, and he bought a bed… -Wow. Come on. 141 00:07:33,413 --> 00:07:35,874 -…and he bought a couch… -Good job. 142 00:07:35,957 --> 00:07:37,876 …and he bought a few pots and pans. 143 00:07:37,959 --> 00:07:39,502 And so we got married in the house. 144 00:07:39,586 --> 00:07:43,006 -In the house? -In the little house, yeah. 145 00:07:44,507 --> 00:07:49,012 I mean, everybody's story is different about love and how you learn to love, 146 00:07:49,095 --> 00:07:50,388 how you share love, 147 00:07:50,472 --> 00:07:51,765 how you're not afraid to love. 148 00:07:51,848 --> 00:07:55,477 It's so important that people can feel comfortable 149 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,813 and confident in both loving and being loved. 150 00:07:58,897 --> 00:08:00,482 -'Cause sometimes being loved… -Yeah. 151 00:08:00,565 --> 00:08:02,651 …is a lot harder than loving, right? 152 00:08:02,734 --> 00:08:05,487 -That's right. -Absolutely. 153 00:08:07,572 --> 00:08:10,450 We agree that the most important part of a relationship is communication. 154 00:08:10,533 --> 00:08:14,037 Right. Today it will be through Jenga. 155 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,623 -Okay, I'm ready. -That's right. Okay. 156 00:08:16,706 --> 00:08:18,333 Wait, is this a different form of Jenga? 157 00:08:18,416 --> 00:08:19,918 -Yeah. -Relationship Jenga. 158 00:08:20,001 --> 00:08:21,002 -It's Relationship-- -What? 159 00:08:22,128 --> 00:08:23,588 God, the pressure. 160 00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:27,050 "What is something that you are clueless about?" 161 00:08:27,133 --> 00:08:29,970 I do have a very, very hard time with cooking. 162 00:08:30,053 --> 00:08:33,472 I just follow directions, and the first direction will be like, 163 00:08:33,557 --> 00:08:35,183 "Julienne the carrots." 164 00:08:35,850 --> 00:08:39,604 And I'm like, I need a thesaurus, I need Google just to do number one. 165 00:08:40,355 --> 00:08:42,731 No, you can't use two hands. No. 166 00:08:44,859 --> 00:08:47,070 This gives us a lot to talk about. 167 00:08:47,571 --> 00:08:50,782 "Which bad habits of other people drive you crazy?" 168 00:08:50,865 --> 00:08:52,576 This is my favorite topic! 169 00:08:52,659 --> 00:08:54,911 I've been waiting for this my whole life! 170 00:08:56,413 --> 00:08:58,331 -Go, girl, go! -Here we go. 171 00:08:58,415 --> 00:09:01,126 My least favorite habit is interrupting. 172 00:09:01,209 --> 00:09:03,420 Working on it. 173 00:09:03,503 --> 00:09:06,548 -My husband also is an interrupter. -How do you deal with interrupting? 174 00:09:06,631 --> 00:09:09,509 Do you talk-- I just interrupted you to ask this question. 175 00:09:09,593 --> 00:09:11,052 But do you talk about it? 176 00:09:11,136 --> 00:09:13,471 Do you just accept him for the interrupter that he is? 177 00:09:13,555 --> 00:09:15,765 -We talk about it. -Okay. 178 00:09:15,849 --> 00:09:18,351 And he has gotten much better. 179 00:09:18,435 --> 00:09:19,853 -Yeah. -Same. 180 00:09:20,604 --> 00:09:23,356 We also try, every night, to share whatever's on our mind, 181 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,442 'cause we never wanna go to bed not only angry, 182 00:09:25,525 --> 00:09:27,027 we never wanna go to bed annoyed. 183 00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:29,195 -Clear it out every night. -Every night. 184 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:30,864 Not easy. 185 00:09:30,947 --> 00:09:32,365 Not easy, but… 186 00:09:32,449 --> 00:09:34,826 So, I'm gonna pick somebody to answer this. 187 00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:36,870 Abby, what is your favorite mistake? 188 00:09:40,332 --> 00:09:41,958 My first marriage. 189 00:09:42,042 --> 00:09:45,629 And this is no disrespect to my ex in any way. 190 00:09:45,712 --> 00:09:47,172 This is just, like, all love. 191 00:09:47,923 --> 00:09:51,760 Sometimes we need to know what we want, 192 00:09:51,843 --> 00:09:54,221 and the only way we can know that 193 00:09:54,304 --> 00:09:56,765 is to understand that what we have is what we don't want. 194 00:09:56,848 --> 00:09:57,682 Right. 195 00:09:58,558 --> 00:10:01,436 -All right, let me see here… -We're doing the two hands thing-- 196 00:10:03,563 --> 00:10:06,775 Mazel tov! 197 00:10:17,827 --> 00:10:21,331 We gather here today to celebrate your love. 198 00:10:23,041 --> 00:10:25,710 An anniversary date is a date on the calendar. 199 00:10:26,294 --> 00:10:30,757 But I'm thankful for you every single day, and I love you. 200 00:10:32,884 --> 00:10:36,638 I thought I would never love again, and you proved me wrong. 201 00:10:37,138 --> 00:10:38,682 You proved me so wrong. 202 00:10:38,765 --> 00:10:41,142 You may now seal this ceremony with a kiss. 203 00:10:44,688 --> 00:10:46,940 What's more important than love? 204 00:10:47,023 --> 00:10:50,986 How people define it, how they gain it, lose it. 205 00:10:51,069 --> 00:10:54,573 It's really at the core of, you know, every human experience. 206 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,493 And for many, marriage is the ultimate gesture 207 00:10:58,577 --> 00:11:00,161 of faith in love. 208 00:11:00,787 --> 00:11:03,290 So I'm going to sit down with a minister, 209 00:11:03,373 --> 00:11:09,546 who proudly and joyfully marries couples from every walk of life. 210 00:11:10,255 --> 00:11:14,509 Gosh, this is such a treat for me. I've read about you and-- 211 00:11:14,593 --> 00:11:16,303 -I've read about you too. -Yeah, a few things. 212 00:11:16,386 --> 00:11:17,762 You know, a couple things. 213 00:11:18,889 --> 00:11:21,600 -Don't believe everything you read, right? -I don't. Don't worry, I don't. 214 00:11:22,309 --> 00:11:26,438 How did you decide, "I can do this. I can help people"? 215 00:11:26,521 --> 00:11:27,939 -Talk to them about marriage… -Uh-huh. 216 00:11:28,023 --> 00:11:29,816 …which, you know, is a challenging subject. 217 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:31,359 -Well… -And, yeah. 218 00:11:31,443 --> 00:11:34,613 -You bring love and hope… -Yeah. 219 00:11:34,696 --> 00:11:36,448 -…through relationships. -Right. 220 00:11:36,531 --> 00:11:40,410 As a woman, being Black and queer and all these things, 221 00:11:40,493 --> 00:11:42,787 like, I had been situated on the margins. 222 00:11:42,871 --> 00:11:44,581 -And so that's been my theology… -Yeah. 223 00:11:44,664 --> 00:11:46,166 …of just, like, being hospitable. 224 00:11:46,249 --> 00:11:49,044 There's a seat at the table, my table, for you. 225 00:11:49,753 --> 00:11:52,923 And I think that's what translates so well into the marriages. So that-- 226 00:11:53,006 --> 00:11:55,967 But were you brought up in a church that was welcoming and joyous? 227 00:11:56,051 --> 00:11:58,637 No! I grew up Pentecostal Apostolic, 228 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,599 and so it was very much charismatic and anti everything that I am. 229 00:12:03,808 --> 00:12:04,976 I thought, "Hold on. 230 00:12:05,060 --> 00:12:08,563 So, you mean to tell me, God is love, but God don't love me?" 231 00:12:08,647 --> 00:12:10,440 So, wait, hold on. 232 00:12:11,483 --> 00:12:13,693 -Wait, I'm confused here. -"You're gonna put God in a box…" 233 00:12:13,777 --> 00:12:15,153 -Right. -"…and leave me out?" 234 00:12:15,237 --> 00:12:17,197 And leave me out, right? Where they do that at? 235 00:12:19,866 --> 00:12:23,828 If God is as grand as we say God is, God is not up in heaven, 236 00:12:23,912 --> 00:12:29,000 or wherever God is, confused or surprised about me. 237 00:12:29,668 --> 00:12:31,044 When I went to divinity school, 238 00:12:31,127 --> 00:12:34,130 it was very much to counter that narrative. 239 00:12:34,214 --> 00:12:37,509 -You were really self-aware. Oh, man. -I've been gutsy for a minute. 240 00:12:37,592 --> 00:12:39,803 So, yeah. So, it was-- It's really love, 241 00:12:39,886 --> 00:12:42,305 and I think that is really the heart of it. 242 00:12:42,889 --> 00:12:45,100 You know, when we talk about rebel hearts, 243 00:12:45,183 --> 00:12:48,937 we act as though you're always rebelling against something, 244 00:12:49,020 --> 00:12:50,814 but sometimes, you know, 245 00:12:50,897 --> 00:12:55,068 a rebel heart just needs to take a deep breath and quiet down. 246 00:12:55,902 --> 00:12:59,614 Figure out how I really feel and then go on. 247 00:13:00,657 --> 00:13:03,034 -And you're no longer married. -I'm no longer married. 248 00:13:03,118 --> 00:13:06,121 Your story is very parallel to mine, 249 00:13:06,955 --> 00:13:10,750 and I was in this space of "to stay or not." 250 00:13:12,252 --> 00:13:14,963 Then there was this point where I was like, 251 00:13:15,046 --> 00:13:16,798 "I'm not okay with this." 252 00:13:16,882 --> 00:13:21,136 I'm just not okay. I made the decision to leave. 253 00:13:22,304 --> 00:13:25,015 You have a marriage that has been on public display 254 00:13:25,098 --> 00:13:26,850 since, like, the beginning. 255 00:13:26,933 --> 00:13:29,311 You said the gutsiest thing you ever did was stay… 256 00:13:29,394 --> 00:13:31,313 -Right. -… in your marriage. 257 00:13:31,396 --> 00:13:33,023 That doesn't mean that's right for everybody. 258 00:13:33,106 --> 00:13:36,943 I was gonna say, and the gutsiest thing that I think I ever did, was to leave. 259 00:13:37,027 --> 00:13:38,236 Absolutely. 260 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,491 And so, in that decision, like, what-- how did you stay? 261 00:13:43,575 --> 00:13:47,120 You know, it is so intensely personal. 262 00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:50,582 With counseling and good friends, 263 00:13:50,665 --> 00:13:54,169 I had to make a decision that I thought was right for me. 264 00:13:54,252 --> 00:13:56,254 'Cause nobody else is living in this marriage. 265 00:13:56,338 --> 00:14:00,884 Nobody else. And the world was saying, "Well, we know what she should do." 266 00:14:00,967 --> 00:14:04,804 But you can't know what goes on in anybody else's marriage, 267 00:14:04,888 --> 00:14:07,098 -let alone in their hearts or their minds. -That, or-- Yeah. 268 00:14:07,182 --> 00:14:10,101 You have to do this searching for yourself. 269 00:14:10,185 --> 00:14:12,938 Getting to the decision is excruciating. 270 00:14:13,021 --> 00:14:16,274 -That part. Yes. -It is so painful. 271 00:14:16,858 --> 00:14:21,780 Having gone through all of that extraordinary reflection, 272 00:14:21,863 --> 00:14:27,327 disappointment, discouragement, anger, once I made it, I felt at peace. 273 00:14:27,911 --> 00:14:30,038 Do you think you would've made the same decision 274 00:14:30,121 --> 00:14:32,040 had you not been in the public eye? 275 00:14:32,123 --> 00:14:36,878 Absolutely. Yeah. 'Cause it was a decision about who I am. 276 00:14:36,962 --> 00:14:37,963 -Okay. -Yeah. 277 00:14:38,046 --> 00:14:40,131 -And it's a decision about who we are… -Yes. 278 00:14:40,215 --> 00:14:41,091 …and who he is. 279 00:14:41,967 --> 00:14:46,721 My thinking about it was, he is fundamentally a really good person, 280 00:14:46,805 --> 00:14:52,143 and he is a loving, caring, thoughtful person, 281 00:14:52,227 --> 00:14:54,854 -and I love him with all my heart. -Yeah, absolutely. 282 00:14:54,938 --> 00:14:59,776 If you were, you know, not in the public eye, 283 00:14:59,859 --> 00:15:03,196 -do you think he would have told you? -No. 284 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:09,578 Because he was so embarrassed and, you know, really ashamed about it. 285 00:15:10,412 --> 00:15:12,539 Do you think we deserve to know? 286 00:15:12,622 --> 00:15:14,958 You know, I think that's one of the age-old questions. 287 00:15:15,041 --> 00:15:19,462 -Right? -I think that there are circumstances 288 00:15:19,546 --> 00:15:24,759 where telling is crueler than not telling. 289 00:15:24,843 --> 00:15:27,095 I would raise my hand on that one. 290 00:15:27,178 --> 00:15:33,643 And that secrets sometimes need to be disclosed, 291 00:15:33,727 --> 00:15:36,938 and sometimes they don't. 292 00:15:37,689 --> 00:15:40,859 If somebody doesn't know that they've been harmed, 293 00:15:40,942 --> 00:15:42,319 are you going to harm them more… 294 00:15:42,402 --> 00:15:44,154 -By telling them. -…by telling them? 295 00:15:44,237 --> 00:15:47,824 This is part of why a life well lived is a difficult life, 296 00:15:47,908 --> 00:15:50,744 because you have to ask these hard questions. 297 00:15:50,827 --> 00:15:53,955 You can't just skim the surface. 298 00:15:54,831 --> 00:15:55,832 Yeah. 299 00:16:00,045 --> 00:16:03,798 Marriage hopefully is journeying together, 300 00:16:03,882 --> 00:16:07,219 sharing love, creating love, laughter. 301 00:16:07,302 --> 00:16:10,972 And yet, for many here in the United States and around the world, 302 00:16:11,056 --> 00:16:15,310 marriage can be confining and degrading and dangerous. 303 00:16:22,609 --> 00:16:25,445 I was forced to marry at 19, 304 00:16:25,528 --> 00:16:28,823 given to my husband as something that he could own. 305 00:16:28,907 --> 00:16:31,201 I was given to him as property. 306 00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:39,834 I grew up right here in Brooklyn, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, 307 00:16:39,918 --> 00:16:42,921 where your parents typically will arrange a marriage for you 308 00:16:43,004 --> 00:16:46,216 to a stranger through a matchmaker. 309 00:16:46,299 --> 00:16:48,635 When you knew marriage was going to happen, 310 00:16:48,718 --> 00:16:50,345 were you resigned initially to it, 311 00:16:50,428 --> 00:16:53,014 because that's what had happened to everybody else you knew, 312 00:16:53,098 --> 00:16:56,101 or did you feel even then that this wasn't right? 313 00:16:57,102 --> 00:17:00,564 Well, I wasn't just resigned to it, I was happy about it. 314 00:17:01,481 --> 00:17:05,485 It did not at all occur to me that this was a forced marriage. 315 00:17:05,986 --> 00:17:08,988 When I walked down the aisle with a big smile on my face, 316 00:17:09,072 --> 00:17:11,949 it was a trap, a horrifying trap. 317 00:17:12,033 --> 00:17:14,494 But I just did not understand until I was in it. 318 00:17:15,078 --> 00:17:19,123 Things became obviously bad a week after my wedding, 319 00:17:19,207 --> 00:17:24,420 and that was the first time my then-husband flew into a violent rage, 320 00:17:24,504 --> 00:17:26,381 punched his fist through the wall, 321 00:17:26,464 --> 00:17:28,550 and a couple of days later was the first time 322 00:17:28,633 --> 00:17:30,176 he threatened to kill me. 323 00:17:30,844 --> 00:17:33,096 Did you think, "Okay, I just have to be better"? 324 00:17:33,179 --> 00:17:35,473 Did you think that it was your responsibility somehow 325 00:17:35,557 --> 00:17:36,850 to make him less violent? 326 00:17:36,933 --> 00:17:38,184 100%. 327 00:17:40,979 --> 00:17:43,481 When I realized nobody was gonna help me escape, 328 00:17:43,565 --> 00:17:46,359 I started saving up cash to help me get out. 329 00:17:47,694 --> 00:17:48,737 It wasn't easy to do, 330 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:52,032 because my husband didn't allow me to have anything private. 331 00:17:53,033 --> 00:17:55,994 He would look through all my personal belongings. 332 00:17:56,077 --> 00:17:59,164 The only place I could save up cash in the house was a box of cereal 333 00:17:59,247 --> 00:18:00,624 in the pantry closet. 334 00:18:01,207 --> 00:18:03,960 It took me 15 years to get out. 335 00:18:04,586 --> 00:18:06,880 And in the process, I lost my entire family. 336 00:18:06,963 --> 00:18:10,383 They punished me for daring to escape by shunning me. 337 00:18:10,967 --> 00:18:16,348 You took all that pain, and you really turned it into a mission. 338 00:18:19,017 --> 00:18:20,393 Today when I wear this dress, 339 00:18:20,477 --> 00:18:23,355 it's very different from the first time I wore my bridal gown. 340 00:18:23,438 --> 00:18:26,399 This time, I'm not being forced into subjugation. 341 00:18:26,483 --> 00:18:29,861 This time I'm here as a survivor and an advocate. 342 00:18:31,571 --> 00:18:35,492 Ready to protest child marriage and forced marriage in Massachusetts? 343 00:18:36,701 --> 00:18:39,204 Let's get into our gowns! 344 00:18:40,497 --> 00:18:43,833 I founded Unchained At Last because I was completely on my own 345 00:18:43,917 --> 00:18:45,919 when I escaped from my forced marriage, 346 00:18:46,002 --> 00:18:49,172 and I wanted to be there for others who are in that same situation. 347 00:18:50,006 --> 00:18:52,217 All right, starting to look like a Chain-In! 348 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:53,218 Yes. 349 00:18:53,802 --> 00:18:58,890 People typically associate bridal gowns with happiness and romance. 350 00:18:58,974 --> 00:19:03,728 These gowns are different. These gowns symbolize an uprising. 351 00:19:12,946 --> 00:19:14,948 What we have seen at Unchained At Last, 352 00:19:15,031 --> 00:19:18,868 the survivors we have worked with, they've come from every community. 353 00:19:18,952 --> 00:19:21,788 Very few Americans know that this is an issue. 354 00:19:21,871 --> 00:19:23,623 -Well, because I do think… -Yeah. 355 00:19:23,707 --> 00:19:26,543 there is this conceit of-- This is a problem in other places. 356 00:19:26,626 --> 00:19:28,378 -Yeah. -I'm like, no. 357 00:19:28,461 --> 00:19:30,088 -This is a problem and an injustice… -Yeah. 358 00:19:30,171 --> 00:19:31,965 -…happening right here. -Right. 359 00:19:32,048 --> 00:19:33,425 I'm a Massachusetts resident 360 00:19:33,884 --> 00:19:38,013 and I'm a survivor of a child marriage. When I was 14, 361 00:19:38,513 --> 00:19:40,390 a family friend started molesting me. 362 00:19:41,683 --> 00:19:43,518 When I was 16, I got pregnant. 363 00:19:44,728 --> 00:19:47,606 My parents took me to the courthouse, 364 00:19:47,689 --> 00:19:52,068 and in less than ten minutes, my paperwork was signed. 365 00:19:52,152 --> 00:19:55,864 We stopped at a thrift store on the way home, we bought a dress, 366 00:19:55,947 --> 00:19:58,533 and I was married in my grandparents' living room. 367 00:19:59,701 --> 00:20:01,578 It's time for this to end. 368 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,458 We started this process in 2015, 369 00:20:06,541 --> 00:20:09,252 pushing for this simple commonsense legislation 370 00:20:09,336 --> 00:20:12,923 that harms no one, costs nothing and ends a human rights abuse. 371 00:20:13,506 --> 00:20:15,926 We thought legislators would give us a hug and high five 372 00:20:16,009 --> 00:20:17,427 and immediately pass these bills. 373 00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:19,387 And yet, that hasn't been your experience. 374 00:20:19,971 --> 00:20:22,766 Not even a little, as you well know. 375 00:20:22,849 --> 00:20:25,518 I have written many letters to many state legislators 376 00:20:25,602 --> 00:20:27,729 in many states around the country. 377 00:20:27,812 --> 00:20:32,108 And many things you never thought you'd have to, like, write down on paper. 378 00:20:32,192 --> 00:20:34,778 Before Fraidy, it was legal in every state. 379 00:20:34,861 --> 00:20:36,529 Only 44 to go. Yes. 380 00:20:36,613 --> 00:20:40,575 But it is very rare to be able to point to someone and say, "You did this." 381 00:20:40,659 --> 00:20:41,701 And Fraidy, you did this. 382 00:20:41,785 --> 00:20:43,078 What do we want? 383 00:20:43,161 --> 00:20:44,955 End child marriage! 384 00:20:45,038 --> 00:20:46,248 When do we want it? 385 00:20:46,331 --> 00:20:47,332 Now! 386 00:20:48,124 --> 00:20:51,336 There's a direct line between, you know, a younger woman like Fraidy, 387 00:20:51,419 --> 00:20:55,173 with her passion and activism to end child marriage, 388 00:20:55,257 --> 00:20:57,467 and somebody like Gloria Steinem. 389 00:20:58,093 --> 00:21:02,931 She has taken her own personal experience and has linked it to activism. 390 00:21:03,014 --> 00:21:06,309 Some of us have had abortions. I have. 391 00:21:07,435 --> 00:21:11,898 For many reasons we had to choose between giving birth to someone else 392 00:21:11,982 --> 00:21:13,984 and giving birth to ourselves. 393 00:21:14,818 --> 00:21:17,320 She came to that work as a journalist. 394 00:21:18,113 --> 00:21:22,784 She started Ms. Magazine, stood up for women's right to equal pay 395 00:21:22,867 --> 00:21:26,329 to employment and women's right to be married or not married. 396 00:21:27,163 --> 00:21:30,333 She defied 1950s depictions of womanhood 397 00:21:30,417 --> 00:21:34,838 and chose to pursue her own fiercely independent path. 398 00:21:38,008 --> 00:21:39,676 I don't eat popcorn except in the movies. 399 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:41,803 Can't have a movie without popcorn. 400 00:21:41,887 --> 00:21:43,221 Absolutely right. 401 00:21:43,305 --> 00:21:44,973 -Enjoy the film. -Thank you. 402 00:21:50,770 --> 00:21:52,439 When you were looking for role models, 403 00:21:52,522 --> 00:21:55,233 were there people that you look to 404 00:21:55,317 --> 00:21:57,193 in the movies or in the larger culture? 405 00:21:57,777 --> 00:22:00,155 Well, certainly Breakfast at Tiffany's. 406 00:22:01,323 --> 00:22:06,411 It was the first time I had ever seen a woman on screen 407 00:22:06,494 --> 00:22:09,456 who was independent, who was sexual. 408 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:10,916 Taxi! 409 00:22:10,999 --> 00:22:16,254 She was the first person on screen allowed to be sexual and not married. 410 00:22:18,882 --> 00:22:20,425 I never could do that. 411 00:22:20,508 --> 00:22:21,509 It's easy. 412 00:22:22,093 --> 00:22:26,348 Roles played by other women, you know, Elizabeth Taylor in Butterfield 8, 413 00:22:26,431 --> 00:22:28,516 or some of the Bette Davis-- 414 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,018 Yes, they were always kind of doomed. 415 00:22:30,101 --> 00:22:32,270 -They were doomed. -Right. 416 00:22:32,354 --> 00:22:34,314 And it was, like, "Here's the lesson. 417 00:22:34,397 --> 00:22:37,734 You go off, you have fun, you actually have relationships, 418 00:22:37,817 --> 00:22:40,320 you're a sexual being, and you're gonna pay the price." 419 00:22:41,071 --> 00:22:43,907 Katharine Hepburn, the roles that she typically played-- 420 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:46,993 I loved her, you know, independence. 421 00:22:47,077 --> 00:22:50,372 And she was often a career woman, a journalist, a lawyer. 422 00:22:50,455 --> 00:22:53,667 -I found that very exciting. -Yeah. She was never defeated. 423 00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:55,168 No. 424 00:22:55,252 --> 00:22:58,838 Except, there's that one scene, she's married to Spencer Tracy. 425 00:22:59,256 --> 00:23:02,133 Good heavens, Miss Harding, you've been in an accident? 426 00:23:02,217 --> 00:23:04,761 Shame on you, Alma. What a way to talk about marriage. 427 00:23:04,844 --> 00:23:08,473 And he's very upset with her because he thought when they got married, 428 00:23:08,557 --> 00:23:10,934 she wouldn't be quite so ambitious. 429 00:23:11,017 --> 00:23:13,812 So, she's trying to make him breakfast. 430 00:23:14,479 --> 00:23:15,772 She doesn't know how to crack an egg. 431 00:23:15,855 --> 00:23:18,108 And she doesn't know how to make the coffee. 432 00:23:18,191 --> 00:23:19,818 Kind of refreshing. 433 00:23:19,901 --> 00:23:23,863 Exactly. You can't make coffee? That's okay. 434 00:23:24,698 --> 00:23:29,411 In the '50s, we thought we would marry who we wanted to be. 435 00:23:29,494 --> 00:23:32,247 We could not be that ourselves. 436 00:23:32,330 --> 00:23:34,749 I hope that you missed that. 437 00:23:34,833 --> 00:23:39,462 It was not as clearly an independent path for women, 438 00:23:39,546 --> 00:23:42,173 but much more than what you experienced in the '50s. 439 00:23:43,174 --> 00:23:46,720 -Those days you lived your husband's life… -You did. 440 00:23:47,429 --> 00:23:50,223 …and that made marriage seem a little like death. 441 00:23:50,765 --> 00:23:55,645 So, in order not to get married, I had to go very far away… 442 00:23:55,729 --> 00:23:59,107 …and that's why I ended up going to India. 443 00:23:59,190 --> 00:24:02,485 I didn't exactly know what I was rebelling for, 444 00:24:02,569 --> 00:24:08,116 but I knew if I took the next traditional choice, 445 00:24:08,199 --> 00:24:09,492 it would be my last choice. 446 00:24:10,327 --> 00:24:13,788 I guess I have always had a series of little marriages, you know. 447 00:24:13,872 --> 00:24:16,416 I mean, relationships that really mattered to me 448 00:24:16,499 --> 00:24:19,669 but had a kind of duration of their own. 449 00:24:19,753 --> 00:24:23,173 Right? But we are still friends. 450 00:24:23,256 --> 00:24:27,302 If you ever loved each other, really, it's not gonna go away. 451 00:24:27,385 --> 00:24:29,429 -No, love survives. -Right. 452 00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:35,894 We still love each other after 54 years. 453 00:24:35,977 --> 00:24:38,813 We're still growing more and more in love, even right now. 454 00:24:38,897 --> 00:24:42,484 Just because, like, it's a journey. You start to see more things later on. 455 00:24:42,567 --> 00:24:44,819 You start to see, "She got cuter. She--" 456 00:24:45,946 --> 00:24:52,035 I love when you write songs to me. We're good together. We are. 457 00:24:52,118 --> 00:24:55,288 You make me wanna marry you again. 458 00:24:55,372 --> 00:24:58,250 -Get another ring. -No. 459 00:25:10,512 --> 00:25:13,598 Today we're going to make a ring for our right hands. 460 00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:16,893 Traditionally the left hand is the marriage ring, 461 00:25:16,977 --> 00:25:20,355 or the engagement ring, an "I'm taken" ring. 462 00:25:20,438 --> 00:25:22,065 In the 1920s, 463 00:25:22,148 --> 00:25:25,068 working women started wearing rings on their right hands 464 00:25:25,151 --> 00:25:27,862 to signify their independence. 465 00:25:28,655 --> 00:25:31,491 We have a crew of the most incredible, 466 00:25:31,575 --> 00:25:34,661 strong, independent working women that I know. 467 00:25:35,662 --> 00:25:38,707 -So, we are gonna make some rings, ladies. -I can't believe it. 468 00:25:38,790 --> 00:25:41,418 -I'm so excited. -I mean. Yeah, well, I'm very excited. 469 00:25:42,002 --> 00:25:45,046 We prepared samples, different styles. 470 00:25:45,130 --> 00:25:46,506 Wow. That's beautiful. 471 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:48,466 A woman who knows what she wants. 472 00:25:48,550 --> 00:25:50,010 Well, if you had hands like that… 473 00:25:50,093 --> 00:25:51,469 -I mean, really. -I know. 474 00:25:51,553 --> 00:25:54,389 I have such small fingers. I can't take a big ring. 475 00:25:54,973 --> 00:25:57,434 This is the right thickness. I like that. 476 00:25:57,517 --> 00:25:58,435 Let's get started. 477 00:25:58,518 --> 00:26:01,313 -A piece of wax, jeweler saw. -Okay. 478 00:26:01,396 --> 00:26:02,898 I love that you have such confidence in us. 479 00:26:02,981 --> 00:26:04,274 Yes. 480 00:26:04,357 --> 00:26:06,443 -All right. -Hold this bar of wax like this. 481 00:26:06,526 --> 00:26:08,612 Got it. This is so cool. 482 00:26:09,404 --> 00:26:11,615 -Hold it straight, like this. -Like this? 483 00:26:13,241 --> 00:26:16,912 The first female doctor in the US, Elizabeth Blackwell, 484 00:26:16,995 --> 00:26:20,707 opened up her first hospital here with her sister, Emily. 485 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:23,919 And it was the first hospital to be run by women, 486 00:26:24,002 --> 00:26:28,757 to serve women and to train women as doctors and nurses. 487 00:26:31,259 --> 00:26:32,886 It was so controversial at the time. 488 00:26:32,969 --> 00:26:35,138 -Right? I mean, weren't they threatened… -Yeah. 489 00:26:35,222 --> 00:26:37,474 -…with all kinds of hostility? Right. -They were. 490 00:26:37,557 --> 00:26:40,268 There was a lot of distrust from the men in the neighborhood. 491 00:26:41,603 --> 00:26:44,522 And it was really hard for Elizabeth Blackwell 492 00:26:44,606 --> 00:26:46,316 to become a qualified doctor. 493 00:26:46,942 --> 00:26:50,362 The medical school she attended initially accepted her as a joke, 494 00:26:50,987 --> 00:26:54,157 but she prevailed and became the first woman in America 495 00:26:54,241 --> 00:26:55,533 to earn a medical degree. 496 00:26:56,117 --> 00:26:57,953 And then she and her sister Emily 497 00:26:58,036 --> 00:27:00,705 cared for countless women and children right here. 498 00:27:01,748 --> 00:27:04,751 So, in honor of the Blackwell sisters, who-- 499 00:27:04,834 --> 00:27:07,963 Neither of them got married. Those hardworking women. 500 00:27:08,046 --> 00:27:10,215 That's why we're making our right-hand ring. 501 00:27:10,298 --> 00:27:11,550 This is hard work. 502 00:27:11,633 --> 00:27:12,926 Who's gonna get through first? 503 00:27:13,009 --> 00:27:15,470 -Mom or daughter? -Don't make it a competition. 504 00:27:16,555 --> 00:27:17,931 You're almost there. 505 00:27:18,932 --> 00:27:22,686 It'll be so cool to wear it on my right ring finger. 506 00:27:23,812 --> 00:27:24,646 I like it. 507 00:27:24,729 --> 00:27:26,481 -It's beautiful, so smooth and round… -It is. Yeah. 508 00:27:26,565 --> 00:27:28,692 …and, I mean, that's amazing. 509 00:27:28,775 --> 00:27:31,403 -That's really neat. I really like that. -Right? I know. Thanks. 510 00:27:32,028 --> 00:27:34,948 I think this might be my most successful craft. 511 00:27:35,991 --> 00:27:37,242 That's so great. 512 00:27:38,076 --> 00:27:41,663 In our wedding ring, uh, 513 00:27:41,746 --> 00:27:46,835 we have an engraving of a ship on which we met 514 00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:52,883 and a snail because I hesitated and dragged my feet. 515 00:27:53,466 --> 00:27:56,261 And he hung in there and stayed. 516 00:27:56,344 --> 00:28:01,182 For me, the most surprising thing is how wonderfully it's worked out. 517 00:28:01,266 --> 00:28:05,854 I don't know what I would do in this world without you. I really don't. 518 00:28:05,937 --> 00:28:07,898 It is terrifying to me. 519 00:28:07,981 --> 00:28:09,107 I'm widowed. 520 00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:14,446 And the beautiful thing is that I found I could fall in love with someone else 521 00:28:14,529 --> 00:28:18,325 and have room in my heart for both my first husband 522 00:28:18,408 --> 00:28:19,451 and my new partner. 523 00:28:19,534 --> 00:28:23,580 It was a really lovely realization and experience the second 524 00:28:23,663 --> 00:28:26,583 that I was open to it, that it was able to happen. 525 00:28:26,666 --> 00:28:28,919 It's hard for a lot of people who are non-widowed 526 00:28:29,002 --> 00:28:32,255 to understand how we as widows can move forward. 527 00:28:36,593 --> 00:28:38,094 Not bad! 528 00:28:49,439 --> 00:28:51,024 Nice try. 529 00:28:53,443 --> 00:28:57,030 How did you go from the shock, the grief, 530 00:28:57,113 --> 00:29:03,119 to deciding that there was something you could do with your experience that, 531 00:29:03,203 --> 00:29:04,788 you know, might help other people? 532 00:29:05,372 --> 00:29:06,873 The reason I started Camp Widow 533 00:29:06,957 --> 00:29:11,294 was so people would have an easier time finding other widowed people than I did. 534 00:29:14,214 --> 00:29:19,344 I was 35, and I had six kids. How do you do this? 535 00:29:19,427 --> 00:29:20,554 And so, I just thought, 536 00:29:20,637 --> 00:29:22,222 "I guess I'm supposed to ask other widows?" 537 00:29:22,305 --> 00:29:23,765 And how did you find other widows? 538 00:29:23,848 --> 00:29:26,643 I started a random search, and I started saying, 539 00:29:26,726 --> 00:29:29,104 "Do you know anyone who's widowed? Do you know anyone who's widowed?" 540 00:29:29,187 --> 00:29:30,355 And I just would ask them, 541 00:29:30,438 --> 00:29:33,483 "What do you do with their shoes? How long do you wear your wedding ring? 542 00:29:33,567 --> 00:29:36,778 Do you sleep in your side of the bed, or his side of the bed, or in the middle?" 543 00:29:36,861 --> 00:29:40,949 And at the end, I had a community. And I wanted other people to have that. 544 00:29:41,032 --> 00:29:42,951 The only thing I can think of worse than being widowed 545 00:29:43,034 --> 00:29:44,494 is being widowed and being alone. 546 00:29:46,955 --> 00:29:51,543 We get to laugh. We get to cry. We get to be fully who we are. 547 00:29:51,626 --> 00:29:53,336 We don't have to explain anything. 548 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:54,880 If we're talking, having fun, 549 00:29:54,963 --> 00:29:57,132 and then all of a sudden we burst into tears, like, okay. 550 00:29:57,716 --> 00:29:58,967 Totally normal. 551 00:29:59,050 --> 00:30:01,177 Totally normal. It's not a big deal. 552 00:30:01,261 --> 00:30:02,178 Just keep on trucking. 553 00:30:02,762 --> 00:30:05,432 Everybody has a sense that they have something to give. 554 00:30:05,515 --> 00:30:08,184 And so, you're able to accept because you know that at some point, 555 00:30:08,268 --> 00:30:09,644 you're also gonna be able to give. 556 00:30:10,645 --> 00:30:12,731 Okay, Marquelle, get it in there! 557 00:30:14,691 --> 00:30:15,609 Look at you! 558 00:30:15,692 --> 00:30:17,694 Like, I get pretty competitive in sports. 559 00:30:18,278 --> 00:30:19,654 I'm only competitive at things 560 00:30:19,738 --> 00:30:21,740 that I feel like I have reason to be competitive, but-- 561 00:30:21,823 --> 00:30:24,367 We have to beat her mom's team. 562 00:30:24,451 --> 00:30:27,412 Okay, Chelsea! 563 00:30:28,121 --> 00:30:29,414 You got this! 564 00:30:29,497 --> 00:30:30,540 Whoo! 565 00:30:30,624 --> 00:30:32,834 Right into the gutter, ladies and gentlemen. 566 00:30:34,878 --> 00:30:36,171 Yes! 567 00:30:36,254 --> 00:30:38,465 -Uh-oh. Wait, is that my mom? -I think that-- 568 00:30:40,717 --> 00:30:41,718 What? 569 00:30:42,260 --> 00:30:44,304 I mean, that looked pretty impressive. 570 00:30:44,387 --> 00:30:46,890 Okay, I think we should quit now while we're ahead. 571 00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:52,520 Tell me your name. 572 00:30:52,604 --> 00:30:55,273 -Sophia. Nice to meet you. -Nice to meet you, Sophia. 573 00:30:55,357 --> 00:30:57,859 So, Sophia found out she was pregnant after her husband died. 574 00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:01,905 I was 31 at the time, and my husband was 33. 575 00:31:01,988 --> 00:31:04,449 Like, completely unexpected of a heart attack. 576 00:31:05,283 --> 00:31:07,911 I came across Michelle's organization. 577 00:31:07,994 --> 00:31:12,165 There's something to be said about someone who understands firsthand 578 00:31:12,249 --> 00:31:13,917 what it's like to walk in your shoes. 579 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,670 Right. Absolutely. How old is your child now? 580 00:31:16,753 --> 00:31:18,380 -She is one and a half… -Oh, my. 581 00:31:18,463 --> 00:31:21,883 -…and as healthy and happy and, like… -Adorable. 582 00:31:21,967 --> 00:31:23,635 I'm chasing her around. 583 00:31:23,718 --> 00:31:26,388 So, life just has a way of throwing curveballs. 584 00:31:26,471 --> 00:31:28,390 And, you know, when we talk about gutsy women, 585 00:31:28,473 --> 00:31:33,770 I think it's how adaptable you are to when life doesn't go as planned. 586 00:31:33,853 --> 00:31:36,022 Yeah. When life throws something at you. 587 00:31:36,731 --> 00:31:39,943 I was lucky enough to go to Camp Widow in 2015. 588 00:31:40,026 --> 00:31:41,194 Was my first one. 589 00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:45,073 Seven or eight months after Lynn passed. Thank goodness. 590 00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:47,867 I've talked to a lot of older LGBT folks 591 00:31:47,951 --> 00:31:51,496 who can't divulge they lost their partner, their person. 592 00:31:51,580 --> 00:31:55,125 It just adds a whole 'nother layer of grief obviously. 593 00:31:55,208 --> 00:31:57,669 -When you live your life a certain way… -Yeah. 594 00:31:57,752 --> 00:32:01,423 …you don't just change just because this law now applies to you. 595 00:32:03,174 --> 00:32:06,428 Lynn and I were called names very early on in our relationship, 596 00:32:06,511 --> 00:32:09,306 and so we wouldn't hold hands, except for maybe just a couple places. 597 00:32:09,389 --> 00:32:12,058 With marriage equality, when a woman says, "My wife," 598 00:32:12,142 --> 00:32:14,102 I'm like-- You know? Is that okay to say? 599 00:32:14,185 --> 00:32:17,022 You know? There's still that layer of fear and protection. 600 00:32:17,105 --> 00:32:18,732 Well, it's happened really fast. 601 00:32:18,815 --> 00:32:21,985 -I mean, it was a long struggle-- -It was a long journey, and then-- 602 00:32:22,068 --> 00:32:23,111 -Yes, and then… -Yeah. 603 00:32:23,194 --> 00:32:26,656 -…so much, you know, happened so quickly. -The velocity of progress, yeah. 604 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,660 When I came out, actually Defense of Marriage Act was happening. 605 00:32:30,744 --> 00:32:35,790 And I'm a good, law-abiding immigrant Catholic school kid, you know? 606 00:32:35,874 --> 00:32:37,542 If the government says this, 607 00:32:37,626 --> 00:32:39,502 and my parents are reading this and everyone is reading, 608 00:32:39,586 --> 00:32:42,214 then this must be how it should be. 609 00:32:42,297 --> 00:32:43,381 You know what I mean? 610 00:32:43,465 --> 00:32:47,302 Throughout my entire life until very late, 611 00:32:47,385 --> 00:32:50,055 you know, compared to you or you, 612 00:32:50,138 --> 00:32:53,516 you knew, but nobody acknowledged. 613 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,270 But my daughter was so much further along faster, 614 00:32:57,354 --> 00:32:59,773 and it really made a big impact on me. 615 00:33:00,357 --> 00:33:03,735 It was very hard for me when I was campaigning in 2008 for my mom, 616 00:33:03,818 --> 00:33:08,281 and she supported civil unions, but she did not support marriage. 617 00:33:08,365 --> 00:33:11,243 I would often be asked, like, "Do you disagree with your mother?" 618 00:33:11,326 --> 00:33:14,287 And I would say, "Yes, there are areas." "Will you talk about them?" 619 00:33:14,371 --> 00:33:15,580 And I would say, "No," 620 00:33:15,664 --> 00:33:19,584 because I didn't want to become fodder to be used against her. 621 00:33:19,668 --> 00:33:23,213 But I couldn't also, like, look at myself in the mirror and-- 622 00:33:23,296 --> 00:33:26,174 and posture that we had no disagreements, 623 00:33:26,258 --> 00:33:28,843 'cause we had some, like, pretty profound ones at the time. 624 00:33:28,927 --> 00:33:31,012 Then I, you know, have to confess, 625 00:33:31,096 --> 00:33:33,431 I'd never really thought about marriage until I was, like, 626 00:33:33,515 --> 00:33:35,141 in my 20s and my friends started to get married. 627 00:33:35,225 --> 00:33:37,060 It just seemed so outrageous to me 628 00:33:37,143 --> 00:33:38,770 -that not all of my friends… -Yeah. 629 00:33:38,853 --> 00:33:39,688 …could get married. 630 00:33:39,771 --> 00:33:42,816 Legal marriage. I get why it's so important. 631 00:33:42,899 --> 00:33:44,693 When I had to make the phone calls and say, 632 00:33:44,776 --> 00:33:47,237 "I'm her partner, not her sister, not her cousin, not her mom." 633 00:33:48,071 --> 00:33:51,408 To be the one obligated to do that was such an honor 634 00:33:51,491 --> 00:33:53,243 and it was so validating. 635 00:33:53,326 --> 00:33:55,036 I hit the button for her to be cremated. 636 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,123 It was an honor to hit that. It was also devastating, but it-- 637 00:33:58,206 --> 00:34:01,251 For me it was, like, the ultimate partner, like-- 638 00:34:01,334 --> 00:34:04,045 I successfully did "Till death do us part." 639 00:34:04,129 --> 00:34:06,131 And this is just part of our love story. 640 00:34:06,214 --> 00:34:08,717 -That is a great way to describe it. -It is, right? 641 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,385 I mean, we're still having memories together. 642 00:34:11,469 --> 00:34:13,305 -She's rolling her eyes. -Still part of my love story. 643 00:34:13,387 --> 00:34:14,639 -I love that. -Yeah. 644 00:34:17,767 --> 00:34:20,144 We had a quote on our wedding program. 645 00:34:20,228 --> 00:34:22,731 It said, "The only love you keep is the love you give away." 646 00:34:22,814 --> 00:34:27,068 And you have to give it away in order to really appreciate it 647 00:34:27,152 --> 00:34:28,737 and experience it yourself. 648 00:34:30,155 --> 00:34:33,782 And sometimes loving someone means fighting for them. 649 00:34:33,867 --> 00:34:36,411 Fighting to have your love recognized. 650 00:34:39,204 --> 00:34:45,003 There's so much more space now in our world for rebel hearts. 651 00:34:45,586 --> 00:34:50,050 The movement toward gay marriage, I want to celebrate the fact 652 00:34:50,133 --> 00:34:55,931 that I and tens of millions of others have made this evolutionary journey. 653 00:34:56,014 --> 00:34:57,015 Absolutely. 654 00:34:57,682 --> 00:35:01,478 When you're meeting with these couples who have sought your help, 655 00:35:01,561 --> 00:35:02,896 sought your guidance, 656 00:35:02,979 --> 00:35:07,817 do they reinforce what you have chosen to do? 657 00:35:08,693 --> 00:35:12,197 When I get to know these couples, I become a part of not only their story, 658 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,823 but part of the family. 659 00:35:14,449 --> 00:35:15,533 Dear gracious God, 660 00:35:16,451 --> 00:35:18,703 we thank you so much for the hands that I hold. 661 00:35:19,412 --> 00:35:21,039 Ruben and Ari are a queer couple 662 00:35:21,122 --> 00:35:23,625 from the outskirts of LA. 663 00:35:23,708 --> 00:35:26,086 It's in a space that leans conservatively, 664 00:35:26,169 --> 00:35:29,172 and they didn't have family who would support their union. 665 00:35:30,006 --> 00:35:31,841 They got literally kicked out. 666 00:35:31,925 --> 00:35:34,803 They are shuffling from couch to couch. 667 00:35:35,637 --> 00:35:36,930 And so, they were like, 668 00:35:37,013 --> 00:35:38,807 "Well, would you be able to do my wedding?" 669 00:35:38,890 --> 00:35:40,600 I was like, "I'll definitely do your wedding." 670 00:35:40,684 --> 00:35:44,062 They were like, "No one's gonna come, so it's just gonna be three of us." 671 00:35:44,145 --> 00:35:47,440 And I said, "No, it's not. This wedding is my gift to you." 672 00:35:48,108 --> 00:35:49,609 So, I go online, and I said, 673 00:35:49,693 --> 00:35:53,780 "I'm looking for a queer photographer and a cool location." That's what I put. 674 00:35:53,863 --> 00:35:57,701 At the end of this, the haircuts, the wedding planner, the cake, 675 00:35:57,784 --> 00:36:01,329 the everything, was donated to this couple. 676 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,041 Wow. 677 00:36:07,586 --> 00:36:08,587 Yes! 678 00:36:08,670 --> 00:36:10,046 -Yeah. -Hey! 679 00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:13,884 Hey, princesa. I'm like, "What?" 680 00:36:13,967 --> 00:36:15,635 This is beautiful. 681 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:16,720 Ruben's gonna flip. 682 00:36:20,098 --> 00:36:21,558 I have always felt like Ruben. 683 00:36:21,641 --> 00:36:24,352 I just didn't know what it was until my teenage years. 684 00:36:24,978 --> 00:36:27,772 I met Ari as a girl, but she was there with open arms, 685 00:36:27,856 --> 00:36:28,690 just to accept me. 686 00:36:28,773 --> 00:36:31,443 She said she doesn't care if I'm a man, woman, whatever I am, 687 00:36:31,526 --> 00:36:32,944 she just loves me for who I am. 688 00:36:36,781 --> 00:36:39,117 I feel better than flying. 689 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,702 I feel like I'm in the clouds. 690 00:36:49,586 --> 00:36:53,131 They say a goldfish is only as big as its surroundings. 691 00:36:54,216 --> 00:36:56,843 You put in a goldfish in this small tank, they stay small. 692 00:36:58,678 --> 00:37:02,224 We were able to toss Ari and Ruben in this huge ocean, 693 00:37:02,307 --> 00:37:04,184 and they are able to grow. 694 00:37:14,486 --> 00:37:18,782 "Queerly beloved, today we are gathered here 695 00:37:18,865 --> 00:37:22,661 to witness the union of Ruben and Ariadna." 696 00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:28,041 The community rallied around them to craft a dream wedding 697 00:37:28,124 --> 00:37:30,043 that they didn't believe that they deserved. 698 00:37:30,126 --> 00:37:32,254 -All strangers that became family. -Wow. 699 00:37:32,337 --> 00:37:33,463 It was like a chosen family. 700 00:37:33,547 --> 00:37:35,840 -A chosen family. -A chosen family. I love that phrase. 701 00:37:37,884 --> 00:37:39,010 Come a little closer. 702 00:37:42,889 --> 00:37:46,851 Ari, we've been through a lot. I love you through it all. 703 00:37:46,935 --> 00:37:50,647 Through our ups, the highest as we had, the lowest of the lows. 704 00:37:50,730 --> 00:37:53,066 I wanna be by your side forever. 705 00:37:54,109 --> 00:37:58,572 Ruben, life is crazy, but it will be even crazier without you. 706 00:37:59,614 --> 00:38:02,409 You're my soul mate. What more can I say? 707 00:38:02,492 --> 00:38:03,994 I'm ready to marry you. 708 00:38:04,077 --> 00:38:05,412 You want me to hurry up, huh? 709 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:18,008 By the power vested in me by the State of California, 710 00:38:18,091 --> 00:38:23,138 I declare you husband and wife. You may seal your union with a kiss. 711 00:38:41,615 --> 00:38:45,619 We have met some extraordinary women 712 00:38:45,702 --> 00:38:48,580 on this, uh, journey to discover rebel hearts. 713 00:38:48,663 --> 00:38:51,917 The choice I make may not be the choice you make, 714 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,463 or the choice Gloria, Reverend Whittney, or Abby makes, 715 00:38:56,546 --> 00:39:00,300 but we need to have the support from society, 716 00:39:00,383 --> 00:39:02,802 as well as the internal fortitude, 717 00:39:02,886 --> 00:39:05,597 to make the decisions that are right for us. 718 00:39:06,181 --> 00:39:08,892 Each of the women brings their love into the world. 719 00:39:08,975 --> 00:39:11,728 Creates more love for themselves and their families, 720 00:39:11,811 --> 00:39:16,233 sometimes has to painfully reimagine what love can mean for them 721 00:39:16,316 --> 00:39:18,568 after terrible loss. 722 00:39:18,652 --> 00:39:21,154 And ultimately it just gives me a lot of hope 723 00:39:21,238 --> 00:39:25,784 that there is so much love being nurtured, 724 00:39:25,867 --> 00:39:28,745 created and shared. 725 00:39:29,454 --> 00:39:30,830 And you-- I'll never forget, Mom. 726 00:39:30,914 --> 00:39:33,041 We were at an event, and someone was speaking, and she said, 727 00:39:33,124 --> 00:39:34,834 "You know, I have loved and I have been loved, 728 00:39:34,918 --> 00:39:37,254 -and all the rest is background music." -Absolutely. 729 00:39:37,337 --> 00:39:40,632 I remember that. I think about that all the time. 730 00:39:40,715 --> 00:39:41,883 So do I. 731 00:39:41,967 --> 00:39:48,557 You are a Libra, and I am a Virgo. On paper, we are not meant to be. 732 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,726 We are literally rewriting the stars. 733 00:39:51,810 --> 00:39:54,396 I can't believe I get to live this life with you. 734 00:39:54,479 --> 00:39:56,439 -Every day. -I mean, it's the miracle of our lives. 735 00:39:56,523 --> 00:39:57,732 -Yeah. -Even though it is hard work 736 00:39:57,816 --> 00:39:58,900 and you drive each other nuts 737 00:39:58,984 --> 00:40:01,444 -and all the normal things. Yeah. -Totally drive each other nuts. 738 00:40:01,528 --> 00:40:03,154 That's being a unit long-term. 739 00:40:03,238 --> 00:40:05,365 -Now you can kiss me. -So-- 740 00:40:07,617 --> 00:40:09,703 So it's done? Wow, nice. 741 00:40:11,371 --> 00:40:12,581 So, we can get up? 742 00:40:12,664 --> 00:40:14,124 No. You're gonna stay, and I'm going home. 743 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:16,501 Leave him here.