1 00:00:07,801 --> 00:00:10,637 -["Perhaps, Perhaps, Perhaps" playing] -[crew member 1 chattering] 2 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,265 I have to try not to scooch toward you a little bit. 3 00:00:13,348 --> 00:00:14,474 [bell chimes] 4 00:00:14,558 --> 00:00:17,185 -Those are the wedding bells. -[chuckles] Yes. 5 00:00:18,228 --> 00:00:19,229 Okay. 6 00:00:19,312 --> 00:00:20,564 -[crew member 2] Ready? -Yes. 7 00:00:21,147 --> 00:00:24,859 Marriage is beautiful. Marriage is heart-wrenching. 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,782 You sort of get submerged in-- into some other person's being. 9 00:00:30,865 --> 00:00:33,118 Not every day is easy or a walk in the park, 10 00:00:33,702 --> 00:00:35,954 but that commitment means you don't give up. 11 00:00:36,037 --> 00:00:40,834 Loving and being loved is the most difficult, bravest, 12 00:00:40,917 --> 00:00:44,754 most vulnerable experience that any human being will have. 13 00:00:44,838 --> 00:00:49,384 Well, and "love" is a verb, so it's a continual journey. 14 00:00:49,467 --> 00:00:53,763 It's a continual act of-- of bravery and gutsiness, 15 00:00:53,847 --> 00:00:56,433 and for some women in some places, defiance. 16 00:00:56,516 --> 00:00:59,352 You know, part of being gutsy is learning to love 17 00:00:59,436 --> 00:01:01,271 in whatever way feels right to you. 18 00:01:01,354 --> 00:01:06,776 Part of the struggle that women have faced from literally the beginning of time, 19 00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:11,823 is to have that agency, that freedom, that autonomy 20 00:01:11,907 --> 00:01:14,409 to make the choices that are right for us. 21 00:01:16,578 --> 00:01:18,663 [Chelsea] I'm curious about exploring relationships 22 00:01:18,747 --> 00:01:20,457 in all of their complexity 23 00:01:20,540 --> 00:01:24,294 and finding people who forged their own paths in love. 24 00:01:24,878 --> 00:01:26,296 [hip-hop music playing] 25 00:01:26,379 --> 00:01:28,256 -[skaters whooping] -What do we want? 26 00:01:28,340 --> 00:01:30,300 [all] End child marriage! 27 00:01:30,383 --> 00:01:32,719 I successfully did "till death do us part." 28 00:01:32,802 --> 00:01:34,262 -[cheering] -[Hillary] Okay, Chelsea! 29 00:01:34,346 --> 00:01:39,309 -[screaming, laughing] -[Chelsea] Mazel tov! 30 00:01:39,392 --> 00:01:40,852 [clapping] 31 00:01:45,190 --> 00:01:49,069 -[skaters whooping] -Hey, hey, hey. Get it, got it. Hot. 32 00:01:51,863 --> 00:01:57,786 [skater 1] Falling in love is feeling 100% comfortable in your skin 33 00:01:58,370 --> 00:02:00,747 around the person that you're with. 34 00:02:02,249 --> 00:02:04,292 [skater 2] Being in love is, when you're with someone, 35 00:02:04,376 --> 00:02:06,962 that you always wanna be with them, no matter what time of day it is, 36 00:02:07,045 --> 00:02:10,006 no matter what you're doing. Every day it gets better and better. 37 00:02:10,090 --> 00:02:11,675 [chuckles] That's really nice. 38 00:02:19,224 --> 00:02:22,769 The two of you just seem, like, and I know this is such a cliché, 39 00:02:22,852 --> 00:02:23,853 made for each other. 40 00:02:24,854 --> 00:02:26,940 [Chelsea] You met at a librarian conference? 41 00:02:27,023 --> 00:02:28,567 -Yes. -Super sexy. 42 00:02:28,650 --> 00:02:29,484 Far-out sexy. 43 00:02:29,568 --> 00:02:34,155 I mean, I love libraries. I love librarians. 44 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:36,783 So it just seems like the perfect meet-cute to me. 45 00:02:36,866 --> 00:02:38,159 [laughs] Yes. 46 00:02:39,035 --> 00:02:40,996 I have been a fan of Abby's 47 00:02:41,079 --> 00:02:42,664 -for literally decades. -[chuckles] 48 00:02:42,747 --> 00:02:45,125 [crowd cheering] 49 00:02:45,208 --> 00:02:47,836 [Hillary] Abby Wambach is one of the greatest soccer players… 50 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,422 -[Chelsea] Of all time. -…of all time. [stammers] Man or woman. 51 00:02:50,505 --> 00:02:52,424 -[stammers] Yes. -Anywhere in the world. Um… 52 00:02:52,507 --> 00:02:55,093 We're really enthusiastic, 'cause we're talking over each other. 53 00:02:55,176 --> 00:02:57,721 [chuckles] And Glennon Doyle, who started off 54 00:02:57,804 --> 00:02:59,306 with a Christian mommy blog. 55 00:02:59,389 --> 00:03:02,934 -The first thing is that all these women… -[Hillary] She's an author, a podcaster, 56 00:03:03,018 --> 00:03:06,438 someone who seems plugged into the universe. 57 00:03:07,522 --> 00:03:12,027 The two of them have created this amazing marriage. 58 00:03:12,569 --> 00:03:13,904 Talk about rebel hearts. 59 00:03:14,779 --> 00:03:18,241 They had to risk so much to give their love a chance. 60 00:03:18,742 --> 00:03:22,787 And it was really hard to figure out how to build a life together… 61 00:03:22,871 --> 00:03:23,830 -Mm-hmm. -…and they have. 62 00:03:25,665 --> 00:03:29,377 I was in a very broken marriage to a good man. 63 00:03:29,461 --> 00:03:35,550 And then I was at the convention, and she showed up in the doorway. 64 00:03:35,634 --> 00:03:39,221 I found myself standing up, and I just opened my arms like this. 65 00:03:40,222 --> 00:03:42,599 I realized everyone was staring at me, so I actually bowed. 66 00:03:42,682 --> 00:03:43,934 -[chuckling] -I was thinking, 67 00:03:44,017 --> 00:03:45,810 maybe she'll just think I'm a weird writer, 68 00:03:45,894 --> 00:03:48,230 -and I bow when people come in. -[laughing] 69 00:03:48,313 --> 00:03:52,108 -Well, then, did you bow in response? -She was the only one that stood up… 70 00:03:52,192 --> 00:03:54,277 -[Glennon] Obviously. -…and she's on the opposite side 71 00:03:54,361 --> 00:03:56,947 of the room, and it's like a table that's pushed against-- 72 00:03:57,030 --> 00:03:59,366 -So I had to sidestep my way… -[Hillary laughing] 73 00:03:59,449 --> 00:04:01,743 -…all the way around the room. -It was so weird. 74 00:04:01,826 --> 00:04:04,496 The whole thing was so weird. I was sweating so much. 75 00:04:04,579 --> 00:04:08,625 But I realized that I was in love for the first time in my life. 76 00:04:08,708 --> 00:04:10,627 And it was terrifying, because I was married 77 00:04:10,710 --> 00:04:11,753 and I had three children. 78 00:04:11,836 --> 00:04:16,550 I had a faith-based life and a career that was largely based on that. 79 00:04:17,132 --> 00:04:19,052 I was told over and over again, 80 00:04:19,134 --> 00:04:23,056 "You can pursue this, but it will be the end of your career." 81 00:04:23,974 --> 00:04:26,268 But I just remember thinking, 82 00:04:26,351 --> 00:04:29,771 this is this major crossroads where you are gonna have to decide 83 00:04:30,438 --> 00:04:36,152 whether you are going to honor yourself for the first time in your life, 84 00:04:36,236 --> 00:04:39,406 instead of honoring everyone else's expectations of you. 85 00:04:40,073 --> 00:04:43,076 Then one day, I was watching my little one get ready for school. 86 00:04:43,159 --> 00:04:46,037 And I thought, oh, my God, I am staying in this marriage for her. 87 00:04:46,121 --> 00:04:48,582 But would I want this marriage for her? 88 00:04:48,665 --> 00:04:51,167 And if I wouldn't want this marriage for this little girl, 89 00:04:51,251 --> 00:04:54,087 why am I modeling bad love and calling that good mothering? 90 00:04:54,170 --> 00:04:57,132 We just kind of said, "We're gonna do this." 91 00:04:57,215 --> 00:04:59,718 And we did it as carefully 92 00:04:59,801 --> 00:05:02,053 and with as much honor and love as we could. 93 00:05:02,137 --> 00:05:05,015 Everybody freaked out in the beginning, because that's what people do. 94 00:05:05,098 --> 00:05:08,184 Then they came around, because they saw that we were okay and happy, 95 00:05:08,268 --> 00:05:10,312 and I'm glad we just knew. 96 00:05:10,395 --> 00:05:11,855 How long have you been married? 97 00:05:12,522 --> 00:05:14,816 I've been married, uh-- 11 years. 98 00:05:15,483 --> 00:05:18,778 I, um-- don't have a story like yours, definitely. 99 00:05:18,862 --> 00:05:20,238 [stammers] You didn't do that? 100 00:05:20,322 --> 00:05:24,200 I-- I didn't. I met my husband when we were kids… 101 00:05:24,284 --> 00:05:25,994 -[Glennon] Mmm. -…and we were friends 102 00:05:26,077 --> 00:05:28,121 for more than a dozen years… 103 00:05:28,204 --> 00:05:30,624 -[Abby, Glennon] Wow. -…before we started dating. Yeah. 104 00:05:30,707 --> 00:05:33,209 How did you go from friends to-- like, how did you know? 105 00:05:33,293 --> 00:05:35,212 We'd both broken up with other people. 106 00:05:35,712 --> 00:05:38,423 We were kind of comforting each other about the fact 107 00:05:38,506 --> 00:05:40,133 -that we'd broken up. -[Glennon] Uh-huh. 108 00:05:40,217 --> 00:05:42,260 [Chelsea] One night, I think we were having dinner. 109 00:05:42,344 --> 00:05:43,887 He was like, "I think we're on a date." 110 00:05:43,970 --> 00:05:45,931 -I was like, "Are we?" -[gasping] Oh, my gosh. 111 00:05:46,014 --> 00:05:48,892 "Maybe we are. Are we on a date?" And that was the beginning. 112 00:05:49,809 --> 00:05:53,063 Not that he needed to and not that he did ask our permission. 113 00:05:53,146 --> 00:05:55,357 He just drove out to see us one day and said, 114 00:05:55,857 --> 00:05:58,318 "I just want you to know I'm gonna ask her to marry me." 115 00:05:58,401 --> 00:05:59,319 And I thought, "Yes!" 116 00:06:00,278 --> 00:06:02,072 [Glennon] I like the not asking, 117 00:06:02,155 --> 00:06:04,950 -but respectfully informing. I like that. -Yes. Letting you know. 118 00:06:05,033 --> 00:06:07,535 -I literally asked her parents. -[pan sizzling] 119 00:06:07,619 --> 00:06:11,539 Talked to them and got home, and I had a whole plan. 120 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:13,083 But I couldn't wait. 121 00:06:13,166 --> 00:06:16,628 I remember going into my sock drawer, getting the ring, turning around. 122 00:06:16,711 --> 00:06:20,173 She's like, "Can I get you coffee?" As soon as she walked back, I was there. 123 00:06:20,257 --> 00:06:22,926 I was like, I just-- I cannot wait another second. 124 00:06:23,009 --> 00:06:25,679 Like-- Didn't your husband have to propose to you 125 00:06:25,762 --> 00:06:28,515 -a billion times before you said yes? -[Glennon laughing] Forty-nine times? 126 00:06:28,598 --> 00:06:30,725 -Something-- No, only three. [laughs] -[Glennon] Oh. 127 00:06:30,809 --> 00:06:32,435 -Only three. -[Abby] Okay. Only three. 128 00:06:32,519 --> 00:06:36,898 [Hillary] We met in law school. He was like this force of nature. 129 00:06:36,982 --> 00:06:39,651 When we graduated, he asked me to marry him. 130 00:06:39,734 --> 00:06:42,946 And I said, "You know, I'm just not ready to get married." 131 00:06:43,530 --> 00:06:46,074 A year from then, he asked me again. 132 00:06:46,157 --> 00:06:48,994 He was back in Arkansas running for Congress. 133 00:06:49,077 --> 00:06:52,497 I was working on the impeachment staff to impeach Richard Nixon… 134 00:06:52,581 --> 00:06:54,207 [Glennon] Mmm, okay. Just real quick. 135 00:06:54,291 --> 00:06:56,710 -We had a lot going on in our lives. -[Abby] No biggie. 136 00:06:56,793 --> 00:06:59,504 And I said, you know… [stammers] "Let-- Let's wait." 137 00:06:59,588 --> 00:07:04,009 So I moved to Arkansas with a job teaching at the law school, 138 00:07:04,092 --> 00:07:05,802 and the end of the semester, 139 00:07:06,803 --> 00:07:09,097 I said, "I think I'm gonna go just take a trip around 140 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:11,016 and see if I'm really committed to this." 141 00:07:11,641 --> 00:07:14,477 He's driving me to the airport, and we go by this little house. 142 00:07:15,061 --> 00:07:17,981 And I'm just making conversation. I say, "That's a cute house." 143 00:07:18,064 --> 00:07:19,482 Literally, that's all I said. 144 00:07:19,566 --> 00:07:21,151 I come back, he picks me up at the airport, 145 00:07:21,234 --> 00:07:24,321 -he goes, "I bought that house you liked." -Oh, my gosh. 146 00:07:24,404 --> 00:07:28,199 -"Now you have to marry me." Oh. [laughs] -[Abby] Oh, my gosh, yes. 147 00:07:28,283 --> 00:07:30,035 -[Hillary] So, I did. -[Abby laughs] 148 00:07:30,118 --> 00:07:33,330 -He bought sheets, and he bought a bed… -[Glennon] Wow. Come on. Aw. 149 00:07:33,413 --> 00:07:35,874 -…and he bought a couch… -Good job. 150 00:07:35,957 --> 00:07:37,876 …and he bought a few pots and pans. 151 00:07:37,959 --> 00:07:39,502 And so we got married in the house. 152 00:07:39,586 --> 00:07:43,006 -[Glennon] In the house? Aw. -[Hillary] In the little house, yeah. 153 00:07:44,507 --> 00:07:49,012 I mean, everybody's story is different about love and how you learn to love… 154 00:07:49,095 --> 00:07:50,388 -[Glennon] Mmm. -…how you share love, 155 00:07:50,472 --> 00:07:51,765 how you're not afraid to love. 156 00:07:51,848 --> 00:07:55,477 It's so important that people can feel comfortable 157 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,187 -and confident… -[Glennon] Mm-hmm. 158 00:07:57,270 --> 00:07:58,813 …in both loving and being loved. 159 00:07:58,897 --> 00:08:00,482 -'Cause sometimes being loved… -[Abby] Yeah. 160 00:08:00,565 --> 00:08:02,651 -…is a lot harder than loving, right? -[Glennon] Oof! 161 00:08:02,734 --> 00:08:05,487 -That's right. -Absolutely. 162 00:08:07,572 --> 00:08:10,450 We agree that the most important part of a relationship is communication. 163 00:08:10,533 --> 00:08:14,037 -Right. Today it will be through Jenga. -[Glennon chuckles] 164 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,623 -[Hillary laughs] Okay, I'm ready. -That's right. Okay. 165 00:08:16,706 --> 00:08:18,333 Wait, is this a different form of Jenga? 166 00:08:18,416 --> 00:08:19,918 -[Abby] Yeah. -[Glennon] Relationship Jenga. 167 00:08:20,001 --> 00:08:21,002 -It's Relationship-- -What? 168 00:08:22,128 --> 00:08:23,588 [Chelsea] Oh, God, the pressure. 169 00:08:24,089 --> 00:08:27,050 "What is something that you are clueless about?" 170 00:08:27,133 --> 00:08:29,970 I do have a very, very hard time with cooking. 171 00:08:30,053 --> 00:08:33,472 I just follow directions, and the first direction will be like, 172 00:08:33,557 --> 00:08:35,767 -"Julienne the carrots." -[laughing] 173 00:08:35,850 --> 00:08:39,604 And I'm like, I need a thesaurus, I need Google just to do number one. 174 00:08:40,355 --> 00:08:44,109 -No, you can't use two hands. No. -[Abby, Glennon laughing] 175 00:08:44,859 --> 00:08:47,070 Oh. This gives us a lot to talk about. 176 00:08:47,571 --> 00:08:50,782 "Which bad habits of other people drive you crazy?" 177 00:08:50,865 --> 00:08:52,576 [Glennon gasps] This is my favorite topic! 178 00:08:52,659 --> 00:08:54,911 -[laughing] -I've been waiting for this my whole life! 179 00:08:56,413 --> 00:08:58,331 -Go, girl, go! -[Abby] Oh, here we go. 180 00:08:58,415 --> 00:09:01,126 My least favorite habit is interrupting. 181 00:09:01,209 --> 00:09:03,420 Hmm. Working on it. 182 00:09:03,503 --> 00:09:06,548 -My husband also is an interrupter. -How do you deal with interrupting? 183 00:09:06,631 --> 00:09:09,509 Do you talk-- I just interrupted you to ask this question. 184 00:09:09,593 --> 00:09:11,052 But do you talk about it? 185 00:09:11,136 --> 00:09:13,471 Do you just accept him for the interrupter that he is? 186 00:09:13,555 --> 00:09:15,765 -We talk about it. -[Glennon] Okay. 187 00:09:15,849 --> 00:09:18,351 And he has gotten much better. Um… 188 00:09:18,435 --> 00:09:19,853 -[chuckles] Yeah. -Same, same. 189 00:09:20,604 --> 00:09:23,356 We also try, every night, to share whatever's on our mind, 190 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,442 'cause we never wanna go to bed not only angry, 191 00:09:25,525 --> 00:09:27,027 we never wanna go to bed annoyed. 192 00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:29,195 -[Glennon] Clear it out every night. -Every night. 193 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:30,864 Not easy. 194 00:09:30,947 --> 00:09:32,365 -Not easy, but… -[Glennon] Mm-mmm. 195 00:09:32,449 --> 00:09:34,826 [Hillary] So, I'm gonna pick somebody to answer this. 196 00:09:34,910 --> 00:09:36,870 Abby, what is your favorite mistake? 197 00:09:36,953 --> 00:09:38,997 Oh. Hmm. 198 00:09:40,332 --> 00:09:41,958 My first marriage. 199 00:09:42,042 --> 00:09:45,629 And this is no disrespect to my ex in any way. 200 00:09:45,712 --> 00:09:47,172 This is just, like, all love. 201 00:09:47,923 --> 00:09:51,760 Sometimes we need to know what we-- what we want… 202 00:09:51,843 --> 00:09:54,221 -Mm-hmm. -…and the only way we can know that 203 00:09:54,304 --> 00:09:56,765 is to understand that what we have is what we don't want. 204 00:09:56,848 --> 00:09:57,682 Right. 205 00:09:58,558 --> 00:10:01,436 -All right, let me see here… -Oh, we're doing the two hands thing-- 206 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:06,775 -[screaming, laughing] -Oh, mazel tov! Mazel tov. 207 00:10:17,827 --> 00:10:21,331 We gather here today to celebrate your love. 208 00:10:21,414 --> 00:10:22,958 Ooh! 209 00:10:23,041 --> 00:10:25,710 An anniversary date is a date on the calendar. 210 00:10:26,294 --> 00:10:30,757 But I'm thankful for you every single day, and I love you. 211 00:10:32,884 --> 00:10:36,638 I thought I would never love again, and you proved me wrong. 212 00:10:37,138 --> 00:10:38,682 You proved me so wrong. 213 00:10:38,765 --> 00:10:41,142 You may now seal this ceremony with a kiss. 214 00:10:41,226 --> 00:10:42,394 [laughing] 215 00:10:44,688 --> 00:10:46,940 What's more important than love? 216 00:10:47,023 --> 00:10:50,986 How people define it, how they gain it, lose it. 217 00:10:51,069 --> 00:10:54,573 It's really at the core of, you know, every human experience. 218 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,493 And for many, marriage is the ultimate gesture 219 00:10:58,577 --> 00:11:00,161 of faith in love. 220 00:11:00,787 --> 00:11:03,290 So I'm going to sit down with a minister, 221 00:11:03,373 --> 00:11:09,546 who proudly and joyfully marries couples from every walk of life. 222 00:11:10,255 --> 00:11:14,509 Gosh, this is such a treat for me. I've read about you and-- 223 00:11:14,593 --> 00:11:16,303 -I've read about you too. -Yeah, a few things. 224 00:11:16,386 --> 00:11:18,805 -You know, a couple things. -[both laughing] 225 00:11:18,889 --> 00:11:21,600 -Don't believe everything you read, right? -I don't. Don't worry, I don't. 226 00:11:22,309 --> 00:11:24,853 How did you decide, "I can do this…" 227 00:11:24,936 --> 00:11:26,438 -Mm-hmm. -"…I can help people"? 228 00:11:26,521 --> 00:11:27,939 -Talk to them about marriage… -Uh-huh. 229 00:11:28,023 --> 00:11:29,816 …which, you know, is a challenging subject. 230 00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:31,359 -Hmm, well… -And, yeah. 231 00:11:31,443 --> 00:11:34,613 -You bring love and hope, um… -Yeah. 232 00:11:34,696 --> 00:11:36,448 -…through relationships. -Right. 233 00:11:36,531 --> 00:11:40,410 As a woman, being Black and queer and all these things, 234 00:11:40,493 --> 00:11:42,787 like, I had been situated on the margins. 235 00:11:42,871 --> 00:11:44,581 -And so that's been my theology… -Yeah. 236 00:11:44,664 --> 00:11:46,166 …of just, like, being hospitable. 237 00:11:46,249 --> 00:11:49,044 There's a seat at the table, my table, for you. 238 00:11:49,753 --> 00:11:52,923 And I think that's what translates so well into the marriages. So that-- 239 00:11:53,006 --> 00:11:55,967 But were you brought up in a church that was welcoming and joyous? 240 00:11:56,051 --> 00:11:58,637 No! I-- I grew up Pentecostal Apostolic, 241 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,847 -and so it was very much charismatic… -Mm-hmm. 242 00:12:00,931 --> 00:12:02,599 …and anti everything that I am. 243 00:12:02,682 --> 00:12:03,725 Mm-hmm. 244 00:12:03,808 --> 00:12:04,976 I thought, "Hold on. 245 00:12:05,060 --> 00:12:08,563 So, you mean to tell me, God is love, but God don't love me?" 246 00:12:08,647 --> 00:12:11,399 -[Hillary laughing] -So, wait, wait, wait, hold on. [laughs] 247 00:12:11,483 --> 00:12:13,693 -Wait, I'm confused here. -"You're gonna put God in a box…" 248 00:12:13,777 --> 00:12:15,153 -Right. -"…and leave me out?" 249 00:12:15,237 --> 00:12:17,197 And leave me out, right? Where they do that at? 250 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,074 [both laughing] 251 00:12:19,866 --> 00:12:23,828 If God is as grand as we say God is, God is not up in heaven, 252 00:12:23,912 --> 00:12:29,000 or wherever God is, confused or surprised about me. 253 00:12:29,084 --> 00:12:31,044 -Mm-hmm. -When I went to divinity school, 254 00:12:31,127 --> 00:12:34,130 it was very much to counter that narrative. 255 00:12:34,214 --> 00:12:37,509 -Oh, you were really self-aware. Oh, man. -Oh, I've been gutsy for a minute. 256 00:12:37,592 --> 00:12:39,803 So, yeah. So, it was-- It's really love, 257 00:12:39,886 --> 00:12:42,305 and I think that is really the heart of it. 258 00:12:42,889 --> 00:12:45,100 You know, when we talk about rebel hearts, 259 00:12:45,183 --> 00:12:48,937 we act as though you're always rebelling against something… 260 00:12:49,020 --> 00:12:50,814 -Mm-hmm. -…but sometimes, you know, 261 00:12:50,897 --> 00:12:55,068 a rebel heart just needs to take a deep breath and quiet down. 262 00:12:55,902 --> 00:12:59,614 Figure out how I really feel and then go on. 263 00:13:00,657 --> 00:13:03,034 -And you're no longer married. -I'm no longer married. 264 00:13:03,118 --> 00:13:06,121 Your story is very parallel to mine, 265 00:13:06,955 --> 00:13:10,750 and I was in this space of "to stay or not." 266 00:13:10,834 --> 00:13:12,168 Mm-hmm. 267 00:13:12,252 --> 00:13:15,005 Then there was this point where I was like… [inhales deeply] 268 00:13:15,088 --> 00:13:16,798 -…I'm not okay with this. -Mm-hmm. 269 00:13:16,882 --> 00:13:21,136 I'm just not okay. I made the decision to leave. 270 00:13:22,304 --> 00:13:25,015 You have a marriage that has been on public display… 271 00:13:25,098 --> 00:13:26,850 -Mm-hmm. -…since, like, the beginning. 272 00:13:26,933 --> 00:13:29,311 You said the gutsiest thing you ever did was stay… 273 00:13:29,394 --> 00:13:31,313 -Right. Right, right. -… in your marriage. 274 00:13:31,396 --> 00:13:33,023 That doesn't mean that's right for everybody. 275 00:13:33,106 --> 00:13:36,943 I was gonna say, and the gutsiest thing that I think I ever did, was to leave. 276 00:13:37,027 --> 00:13:38,236 Absolutely. 277 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,491 And so, in that decision, like, what-- how did you stay? 278 00:13:43,575 --> 00:13:47,120 You know, it is so intensely personal. 279 00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:50,582 With counseling and good friends, 280 00:13:50,665 --> 00:13:54,169 I had to make a decision that I thought was right for me. 281 00:13:54,252 --> 00:13:56,254 'Cause nobody else is living in this marriage. 282 00:13:56,338 --> 00:14:00,884 Nobody else. And the world was saying, "Well, we know what she should do." 283 00:14:00,967 --> 00:14:04,804 But you can't know what goes on in anybody else's marriage, 284 00:14:04,888 --> 00:14:07,098 -let alone in their hearts or their minds. -That, or-- Yeah. 285 00:14:07,182 --> 00:14:10,101 You have to do this searching for yourself. 286 00:14:10,185 --> 00:14:12,938 Getting to the decision is excruciating. 287 00:14:13,021 --> 00:14:16,274 -That part. Yes. -It is so painful. 288 00:14:16,858 --> 00:14:21,780 Having gone through all of that extraordinary reflection, 289 00:14:21,863 --> 00:14:27,327 disappointment, discouragement, anger, once I made it, I felt at peace. 290 00:14:27,911 --> 00:14:30,038 Do you think you would've made the same decision 291 00:14:30,121 --> 00:14:32,040 had you not been in the public eye? 292 00:14:32,123 --> 00:14:36,878 Absolutely. Yeah. 'Cause it was a decision about who I am. 293 00:14:36,962 --> 00:14:37,963 -Okay. -Yeah. 294 00:14:38,046 --> 00:14:40,131 -And it's a decision about who we are… -Yes. 295 00:14:40,215 --> 00:14:41,091 …and who he is. 296 00:14:41,967 --> 00:14:46,304 My thinking about it was, he is fundamentally a really good person… 297 00:14:46,388 --> 00:14:49,266 -Mm-hmm. -…and he is a loving, caring, 298 00:14:50,392 --> 00:14:53,853 -thoughtful person, and I love him… -Mm-hmm. 299 00:14:53,937 --> 00:14:56,731 -…with all my heart. -Yeah, absolutely. If you were, you know, 300 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,150 -not in the public eye… -Mm-hmm. 301 00:14:59,859 --> 00:15:03,196 -…do you think he would have told you? -Oh, no. No. 302 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,323 -Because he was so embarrassed and… -Mm-hmm. 303 00:15:05,949 --> 00:15:09,578 …and, you know, really ashamed about it. 304 00:15:10,412 --> 00:15:12,539 Do you think we deserve to know? 305 00:15:12,622 --> 00:15:14,958 You know, I think that's one of the age-old questions. 306 00:15:15,041 --> 00:15:19,462 -Right? -I think that there are circumstances 307 00:15:19,546 --> 00:15:24,759 where telling is crueler than not telling. 308 00:15:24,843 --> 00:15:27,095 I would raise my hand on that one. 309 00:15:27,178 --> 00:15:32,976 And that secrets sometimes need to be disclosed… 310 00:15:33,059 --> 00:15:36,938 -Mm-hmm. -…and sometimes they don't. 311 00:15:37,022 --> 00:15:39,024 -Mm-hmm. -If somebody doesn't know 312 00:15:39,107 --> 00:15:40,859 -that they've been harmed… -Mm-hmm. 313 00:15:40,942 --> 00:15:42,319 …are you going to harm them more… 314 00:15:42,402 --> 00:15:44,154 -By telling them. -…by telling them? 315 00:15:44,237 --> 00:15:47,824 This is part of why a life well lived is a difficult life… 316 00:15:47,908 --> 00:15:50,744 because you have to ask these hard questions. 317 00:15:50,827 --> 00:15:53,955 You can't just skim the surface. 318 00:15:54,831 --> 00:15:55,832 Yeah. 319 00:16:00,045 --> 00:16:03,798 Marriage hopefully is journeying together, 320 00:16:03,882 --> 00:16:07,219 sharing love, creating love, laughter. 321 00:16:07,302 --> 00:16:10,972 And yet, for many here in the United States and around the world, 322 00:16:11,056 --> 00:16:13,683 -marriage can be confining… -Mm-hmm. 323 00:16:13,767 --> 00:16:15,310 …and degrading and dangerous. 324 00:16:22,609 --> 00:16:25,445 [person in white dress] I was forced to marry at 19, 325 00:16:25,528 --> 00:16:28,823 given to my husband as something that he could own. 326 00:16:28,907 --> 00:16:31,201 I was given to him as property. 327 00:16:33,328 --> 00:16:35,497 [restaurant goers chattering] 328 00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:39,834 I grew up right here in Brooklyn, in the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, 329 00:16:39,918 --> 00:16:42,921 where your parents typically will arrange a marriage for you 330 00:16:43,004 --> 00:16:46,216 to a stranger through a matchmaker. 331 00:16:46,299 --> 00:16:48,635 [Hillary] When you knew marriage was going to happen, 332 00:16:48,718 --> 00:16:50,345 were you resigned initially to it, 333 00:16:50,428 --> 00:16:53,014 because that's what had happened to everybody else you knew, 334 00:16:53,098 --> 00:16:56,101 or did you feel even then that this wasn't right? 335 00:16:56,184 --> 00:16:59,145 [breathes deeply] Well, I wasn't just resigned to it, 336 00:16:59,229 --> 00:17:01,398 -I was happy about it. -[Hillary] Mm-hmm. 337 00:17:01,481 --> 00:17:05,485 [Reiss] It did not at all occur to me that this was a forced marriage. 338 00:17:05,986 --> 00:17:08,988 When I walked down the aisle with a big smile on my face, 339 00:17:09,072 --> 00:17:11,949 it was a trap, a horrifying trap. 340 00:17:12,033 --> 00:17:14,494 But I just did not understand until I was in it. 341 00:17:15,078 --> 00:17:19,123 Things became obviously bad a week after my wedding, 342 00:17:19,207 --> 00:17:24,420 and that was the first time my then-husband flew into a violent rage, 343 00:17:24,504 --> 00:17:26,381 punched his fist through the wall, 344 00:17:26,464 --> 00:17:28,550 and a couple of days later was the first time 345 00:17:28,633 --> 00:17:30,176 he threatened to kill me. 346 00:17:30,844 --> 00:17:33,096 Did you think, "Okay, I just have to be better"? 347 00:17:33,179 --> 00:17:35,473 Did you think that it was your responsibility somehow 348 00:17:35,557 --> 00:17:36,850 to make him less violent? 349 00:17:36,933 --> 00:17:38,184 100%. 350 00:17:40,979 --> 00:17:43,481 When I realized nobody was gonna help me escape, 351 00:17:43,565 --> 00:17:46,359 I started saving up cash to help me get out. 352 00:17:47,694 --> 00:17:48,737 It wasn't easy to do, 353 00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:52,032 because my husband didn't allow me to have anything private. 354 00:17:53,033 --> 00:17:55,994 He would look through all my personal belongings. 355 00:17:56,077 --> 00:17:59,164 The only place I could save up cash in the house was a box of cereal 356 00:17:59,247 --> 00:18:00,624 in the pantry closet. 357 00:18:01,207 --> 00:18:03,960 It took me 15 years to get out. 358 00:18:04,586 --> 00:18:06,880 And in the process, I lost my entire family. 359 00:18:06,963 --> 00:18:10,383 They punished me for daring to escape by shunning me. 360 00:18:10,967 --> 00:18:16,348 You took all that pain, and you really turned it into a mission. 361 00:18:16,431 --> 00:18:18,934 [inhales deeply, sighs] 362 00:18:19,017 --> 00:18:20,393 [Reiss] Today when I wear this dress, 363 00:18:20,477 --> 00:18:23,355 it's very different from the first time I wore my bridal gown. 364 00:18:23,438 --> 00:18:26,399 This time, I'm not being forced into subjugation. 365 00:18:26,483 --> 00:18:29,861 This time I'm here as a survivor and an advocate. 366 00:18:31,571 --> 00:18:35,492 Ready to protest child marriage and forced marriage in Massachusetts? 367 00:18:35,575 --> 00:18:39,204 -[crowd cheering] -Let's get into our gowns! 368 00:18:40,497 --> 00:18:43,833 I founded Unchained At Last because I was completely on my own 369 00:18:43,917 --> 00:18:45,919 when I escaped from my forced marriage, 370 00:18:46,002 --> 00:18:49,172 and I wanted to be there for others who are in that same situation. 371 00:18:50,006 --> 00:18:52,217 All right, starting to look like a Chain-In! 372 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:53,218 [protestor] Yes. 373 00:18:53,802 --> 00:18:58,890 [Reiss] People typically associate bridal gowns with happiness and romance. 374 00:18:58,974 --> 00:19:03,728 These gowns are different. These gowns symbolize an uprising. 375 00:19:12,946 --> 00:19:14,948 What we have seen at Unchained At Last, 376 00:19:15,031 --> 00:19:18,868 the survivors we have worked with, they've come from every community. 377 00:19:18,952 --> 00:19:21,788 Very few Americans know that this is an issue. 378 00:19:21,871 --> 00:19:23,623 -[Chelsea] Well, because I do think… -Yeah. 379 00:19:23,707 --> 00:19:26,543 there is this conceit of, oh, this is a problem in other places. 380 00:19:26,626 --> 00:19:28,378 -[Hillary] Yeah. -I'm like, no, no. 381 00:19:28,461 --> 00:19:30,088 -This is a problem and an injustice… -Yeah. 382 00:19:30,171 --> 00:19:31,965 -…happening right here. -Right. Right. 383 00:19:32,048 --> 00:19:33,425 I'm a Massachusetts resident 384 00:19:33,884 --> 00:19:38,013 and I'm a survivor of a child marriage. When I was 14, 385 00:19:38,513 --> 00:19:40,390 a family friend started molesting me. 386 00:19:41,683 --> 00:19:43,518 When I was 16, I got pregnant. 387 00:19:44,728 --> 00:19:47,606 My parents took me to the courthouse, 388 00:19:47,689 --> 00:19:52,068 and in less than ten minutes, my paperwork was signed. 389 00:19:52,152 --> 00:19:55,864 We stopped at a thrift store on the way home, we bought a dress, 390 00:19:55,947 --> 00:19:58,533 and I was married in my grandparents' living room. 391 00:19:59,701 --> 00:20:01,578 It's time for this to end. 392 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,458 [Reiss] We started this process in 2015, 393 00:20:06,541 --> 00:20:09,252 pushing for this simple commonsense legislation 394 00:20:09,336 --> 00:20:12,923 that harms no one, costs nothing and ends a human rights abuse. 395 00:20:13,506 --> 00:20:15,926 We thought legislators would give us a hug and high five 396 00:20:16,009 --> 00:20:17,427 and immediately pass these bills. 397 00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:19,387 And yet, that hasn't been your experience. 398 00:20:19,471 --> 00:20:22,766 -[laughing] -Not even a little, as you well know. 399 00:20:22,849 --> 00:20:25,518 I have written many letters to many state legislators 400 00:20:25,602 --> 00:20:27,729 in many states around the country. 401 00:20:27,812 --> 00:20:30,315 And many things you never thought you'd have to, like, 402 00:20:30,398 --> 00:20:32,108 -write down on paper. -[Chelsea] Yeah. 403 00:20:32,192 --> 00:20:34,778 Before Fraidy, it was legal in every state. 404 00:20:34,861 --> 00:20:36,529 Only 44 to go. Yes. 405 00:20:36,613 --> 00:20:40,575 But it is very rare to be able to point to someone and say, "You did this." 406 00:20:40,659 --> 00:20:41,701 And Fraidy, you did this. 407 00:20:41,785 --> 00:20:43,078 What do we want? 408 00:20:43,161 --> 00:20:44,955 [crowd] End child marriage! 409 00:20:45,038 --> 00:20:46,248 [Reiss] When do we want it? 410 00:20:46,331 --> 00:20:47,332 [crowd] Now! 411 00:20:48,124 --> 00:20:51,336 There's a direct line between, you know, a younger woman like Fraidy, 412 00:20:51,419 --> 00:20:55,173 with her passion and activism to end child marriage, 413 00:20:55,257 --> 00:20:57,467 and somebody like Gloria Steinem. 414 00:20:58,093 --> 00:21:02,931 She has taken her own personal experience and has linked it to activism. 415 00:21:03,014 --> 00:21:06,309 Some of us have had abortions. I have. 416 00:21:07,435 --> 00:21:11,898 For many reasons we had to choose between giving birth to someone else 417 00:21:11,982 --> 00:21:13,984 and giving birth to ourselves. 418 00:21:14,067 --> 00:21:14,901 [crowd cheering] 419 00:21:14,985 --> 00:21:17,320 [Hillary] She came to that work as a journalist. 420 00:21:18,113 --> 00:21:22,784 She started Ms. Magazine, stood up for women's right to equal pay 421 00:21:22,867 --> 00:21:26,329 to employment and women's right to be married or not married. 422 00:21:27,163 --> 00:21:30,333 She defied 1950s depictions of womanhood 423 00:21:30,417 --> 00:21:34,838 and chose to pursue her own fiercely independent path. 424 00:21:38,008 --> 00:21:39,676 I don't eat popcorn except in the movies. 425 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:41,803 [Steinem] Can't have a movie without popcorn. 426 00:21:41,887 --> 00:21:43,221 [Hillary] Absolutely right. 427 00:21:43,305 --> 00:21:44,973 -Enjoy the film. -Thank you. 428 00:21:50,770 --> 00:21:52,439 When you were looking for role models, 429 00:21:52,522 --> 00:21:55,233 -were there people that you look to in… -Mmm. 430 00:21:55,317 --> 00:21:57,193 …in the movies or in the larger culture? 431 00:21:57,777 --> 00:22:00,155 Well, certainly Breakfast at Tiffany's. 432 00:22:01,323 --> 00:22:06,411 [Steinem] It was the first time I had ever seen a woman on screen 433 00:22:06,494 --> 00:22:09,456 who was independent, who was sexual. 434 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:10,916 Taxi! 435 00:22:10,999 --> 00:22:15,003 [Steinem] She was the first person on screen allowed to be sexual 436 00:22:15,086 --> 00:22:16,254 and not married. 437 00:22:16,338 --> 00:22:17,631 [whistles] 438 00:22:18,882 --> 00:22:20,425 I never could do that. 439 00:22:20,508 --> 00:22:21,509 It's easy. 440 00:22:22,093 --> 00:22:26,348 Roles played by other women, you know, Elizabeth Taylor in Butterfield 8, 441 00:22:26,431 --> 00:22:28,516 or some of the Bette Davis, uh-- 442 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,018 Yes, they were always kind of doomed. 443 00:22:30,101 --> 00:22:31,186 -They were doomed. -[laughing] 444 00:22:31,269 --> 00:22:32,270 -They were doomed. -Right. 445 00:22:32,354 --> 00:22:34,314 -And it was, like, "Here's the lesson…" -[chuckles] 446 00:22:34,397 --> 00:22:37,734 "…you go off, you have fun, you actually have relationships, 447 00:22:37,817 --> 00:22:40,320 you're a sexual being, and you're gonna pay the price." 448 00:22:41,071 --> 00:22:43,907 Katharine Hepburn, the roles that she typically played-- 449 00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:46,993 -I loved her, you know, independence. -Mmm. 450 00:22:47,077 --> 00:22:50,372 [Hillary] And she was often a career woman, a journalist, a lawyer. 451 00:22:50,455 --> 00:22:53,667 -I found that very exciting. -Yeah. She was-- She was never defeated. 452 00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:55,168 -No. No. -[laughs] 453 00:22:55,252 --> 00:22:58,838 Except, there's that one scene, she's married to Spencer Tracy. 454 00:22:59,256 --> 00:23:02,133 Good heavens, Miss Harding, you've been in an accident? 455 00:23:02,217 --> 00:23:04,761 Shame on you, Alma. What a way to talk about marriage. 456 00:23:04,844 --> 00:23:08,473 And he's very upset with her because he thought when they got married, 457 00:23:08,557 --> 00:23:10,934 she wouldn't be quite so ambitious. 458 00:23:11,017 --> 00:23:13,812 So, she's trying to make him breakfast. 459 00:23:14,479 --> 00:23:15,772 She doesn't know how to crack an egg. 460 00:23:15,855 --> 00:23:18,108 And she doesn't know how to… [laughs] …make the coffee. 461 00:23:18,191 --> 00:23:19,818 [Steinem] Kind of refreshing. 462 00:23:19,901 --> 00:23:23,863 Exactly. You can't make coffee? That's okay. [laughs] 463 00:23:24,698 --> 00:23:29,411 In the '50s, we thought we would marry who we wanted to be. 464 00:23:29,494 --> 00:23:32,247 -We could not be that ourselves. -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 465 00:23:32,330 --> 00:23:34,749 I th-- hope that you missed that. [chuckles] 466 00:23:34,833 --> 00:23:39,462 It was not as clearly an independent path for women, 467 00:23:39,546 --> 00:23:42,173 but much more than what you experienced in the '50s. 468 00:23:42,257 --> 00:23:43,091 [Steinem] Mm-hmm. 469 00:23:43,174 --> 00:23:46,720 -Those days you lived your husband's life… -You did. 470 00:23:47,429 --> 00:23:50,223 …and that made marriage seem a little like death. 471 00:23:50,765 --> 00:23:55,645 So, in order not to get married, I had to go very far away… [laughs] 472 00:23:55,729 --> 00:23:59,107 …and that's why I ended up going to India. 473 00:23:59,190 --> 00:24:02,485 I didn't exactly know what I was rebelling for, 474 00:24:02,569 --> 00:24:08,116 but I knew if I took the next traditional choice, 475 00:24:08,199 --> 00:24:09,492 -it would be my last choice. -Mmm. 476 00:24:10,327 --> 00:24:13,788 I guess I have always had a series of little marriages, you know. 477 00:24:13,872 --> 00:24:16,416 I mean, relationships that really mattered to me 478 00:24:16,499 --> 00:24:19,669 -but had a kind of duration of their own. -Mm-hmm. 479 00:24:19,753 --> 00:24:23,173 [chuckles] Right? But we are still friends. 480 00:24:23,256 --> 00:24:25,467 If you ever loved each other, really, 481 00:24:25,550 --> 00:24:27,302 -it's not gonna go away. -Mm-hmm. 482 00:24:27,385 --> 00:24:29,429 -No, love survives. [chuckles] -Right. 483 00:24:30,764 --> 00:24:31,932 [chuckles] 484 00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:35,894 -We still love each other after 54 years. -[both chuckling] 485 00:24:35,977 --> 00:24:38,813 We're still growing more and more in love, even right now. 486 00:24:38,897 --> 00:24:42,484 Just because, like, it's a journey. You start to see more things later on. 487 00:24:42,567 --> 00:24:44,819 You start to see, "Oh, she got cuter. She--" 488 00:24:44,903 --> 00:24:45,862 [both laughing] 489 00:24:45,946 --> 00:24:52,035 I love when you write songs to me. We're good together. We are. 490 00:24:52,118 --> 00:24:55,288 You make me wanna marry you again. Hmm. 491 00:24:55,372 --> 00:24:58,250 -Get another ring. [blows, chuckles] -No. [chuckles] 492 00:25:10,512 --> 00:25:13,598 [speaker] Today we're going to make a ring for our right hands. 493 00:25:14,140 --> 00:25:16,893 Traditionally the left hand is the marriage ring, 494 00:25:16,977 --> 00:25:20,355 or the engagement ring, an "I'm-I'm taken" ring. 495 00:25:20,438 --> 00:25:22,065 In the 1920s, 496 00:25:22,148 --> 00:25:25,068 working women started wearing rings on their right hands 497 00:25:25,151 --> 00:25:27,862 to signify their independence. 498 00:25:28,655 --> 00:25:31,491 We have a crew of the most incredible, 499 00:25:31,575 --> 00:25:34,661 strong, independent working women that I know. 500 00:25:34,744 --> 00:25:35,579 [all chuckling] 501 00:25:35,662 --> 00:25:38,707 -So, we are gonna make some rings, ladies. -I can't believe it. 502 00:25:38,790 --> 00:25:41,418 -[Platner] I'm so excited. -I mean. Yeah, well, I'm very excited. 503 00:25:42,002 --> 00:25:45,046 We prepared samples, different styles. 504 00:25:45,130 --> 00:25:46,506 [Hillary] Ooh, wow. That's beautiful. 505 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:48,466 [Platner] A woman who knows what she wants. 506 00:25:48,550 --> 00:25:50,010 [Hillary] Well, if you had hands like that… 507 00:25:50,093 --> 00:25:51,469 -I mean, really. -[Platner] I know. 508 00:25:51,553 --> 00:25:54,389 I have such small fingers. I can't take a big ring. 509 00:25:54,973 --> 00:25:57,434 -This is the right thickness. I like that. -[Platner] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 510 00:25:57,517 --> 00:25:58,435 Let's get started. 511 00:25:58,518 --> 00:26:01,313 -A piece of wax, jeweler saw. -[Steinem] Okay. 512 00:26:01,396 --> 00:26:02,898 I love that you have such confidence in us. 513 00:26:02,981 --> 00:26:04,274 -[laughs] Yes, yes. -[laughs] 514 00:26:04,357 --> 00:26:06,443 -All right. -Hold this bar of wax like this. 515 00:26:06,526 --> 00:26:08,612 Got it. Ah, this is so cool. 516 00:26:09,404 --> 00:26:11,615 -Hold it straight, like this. -Oh. Oh, like this? 517 00:26:11,698 --> 00:26:12,699 Mm-hmm. 518 00:26:13,241 --> 00:26:16,912 The first female doctor in the US, Elizabeth Blackwell, 519 00:26:16,995 --> 00:26:20,707 opened up her first hospital here with her sister, Emily. 520 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:23,919 And it was the first hospital to be run by women, 521 00:26:24,002 --> 00:26:28,757 to serve women and to train women as doctors and nurses. 522 00:26:31,259 --> 00:26:32,886 [Steinem] It was so controversial at the time. 523 00:26:32,969 --> 00:26:35,138 -Right? I mean, weren't they threatened… -[Platner] Yeah. 524 00:26:35,222 --> 00:26:37,474 -…with all kinds of hostility? Right. -They were. 525 00:26:37,557 --> 00:26:40,268 There was a lot of distrust from the men in the neighborhood. 526 00:26:41,603 --> 00:26:44,522 [Chelsea] And it was really hard for Elizabeth Blackwell 527 00:26:44,606 --> 00:26:46,316 to become a qualified doctor. 528 00:26:46,942 --> 00:26:50,362 The medical school she attended initially accepted her as a joke, 529 00:26:50,987 --> 00:26:54,157 but she prevailed and became the first woman in America 530 00:26:54,241 --> 00:26:55,533 to earn a medical degree. 531 00:26:56,117 --> 00:26:57,953 And then she and her sister Emily 532 00:26:58,036 --> 00:27:00,705 cared for countless women and children right here. 533 00:27:01,748 --> 00:27:04,751 So, in honor of the Blackwell sisters, who-- 534 00:27:04,834 --> 00:27:07,963 Neither of them got married. Those hardworking women. 535 00:27:08,046 --> 00:27:10,215 That's why we're making our right-hand ring. 536 00:27:10,298 --> 00:27:11,550 [Steinem] This is hard work. 537 00:27:11,633 --> 00:27:12,926 [Platner] Who's gonna get through first? 538 00:27:13,009 --> 00:27:15,470 -[Chelsea] Mom or daughter? -[Hillary] Don't make it a competition. 539 00:27:15,554 --> 00:27:17,931 -[all laughing] -[Platner] You're almost there. 540 00:27:18,932 --> 00:27:22,686 [Hillary] It'll be so cool to wear it on my right ring finger. 541 00:27:23,812 --> 00:27:24,646 I like it. 542 00:27:24,729 --> 00:27:26,481 -It's beautiful, so smooth and round… -It is. Yeah. 543 00:27:26,565 --> 00:27:28,692 …and, I mean, that's-- that's amazing. 544 00:27:28,775 --> 00:27:31,403 -That's really neat. I really like that. -Right? I know. Thanks. 545 00:27:32,028 --> 00:27:34,948 [Chelsea] I think this might be my most successful craft. 546 00:27:35,991 --> 00:27:37,242 That's so great. 547 00:27:38,076 --> 00:27:41,663 In our wedding ring, uh, 548 00:27:41,746 --> 00:27:46,835 we have an engraving of a ship on which we met 549 00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:52,883 and a snail because I hesitated and dragged my feet. 550 00:27:53,466 --> 00:27:56,261 And he hung in there and stayed. 551 00:27:56,344 --> 00:28:01,182 For me, the most surprising thing is how wonderfully it's worked out. 552 00:28:01,266 --> 00:28:05,854 I don't know what I would do in this world without you. I really don't. 553 00:28:05,937 --> 00:28:07,898 It is terrifying to me. 554 00:28:07,981 --> 00:28:09,107 I'm widowed. 555 00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:14,446 And the beautiful thing is that I found I could fall in love with someone else 556 00:28:14,529 --> 00:28:18,325 and have room in my heart for both my first husband 557 00:28:18,408 --> 00:28:19,451 and my new partner. 558 00:28:19,534 --> 00:28:23,580 It was a really lovely realization and experience the second 559 00:28:23,663 --> 00:28:26,583 that I was open to it, that it was able to happen. 560 00:28:26,666 --> 00:28:28,919 It's hard for a lot of people who are non-widowed 561 00:28:29,002 --> 00:28:32,255 to understand how we as widows can move forward. 562 00:28:36,593 --> 00:28:38,094 [groans] Not bad! 563 00:28:47,395 --> 00:28:48,396 [bowler] Oh! 564 00:28:49,439 --> 00:28:51,024 Nice try. [chuckles] 565 00:28:53,443 --> 00:28:57,030 [Hillary] How did you go from the shock, the grief, 566 00:28:57,113 --> 00:29:03,119 to deciding that there was something you could do with your experience that, 567 00:29:03,203 --> 00:29:04,788 you know, might help other people? 568 00:29:05,372 --> 00:29:06,873 [speaker] The reason I started Camp Widow 569 00:29:06,957 --> 00:29:11,294 was so people would have an easier time finding other widowed people than I did. 570 00:29:14,214 --> 00:29:19,344 I was 35, and I had six kids. How do you do this? 571 00:29:19,427 --> 00:29:20,554 And so, I just thought, 572 00:29:20,637 --> 00:29:22,222 "I guess I'm supposed to ask other widows?" 573 00:29:22,305 --> 00:29:23,765 And how did you find other widows? 574 00:29:23,848 --> 00:29:26,643 [Hernandez] I started a random search, and I started saying, 575 00:29:26,726 --> 00:29:29,104 "Do you know anyone who's widowed? Do you know anyone who's widowed?" 576 00:29:29,187 --> 00:29:30,355 And I just would ask them, 577 00:29:30,438 --> 00:29:33,483 "What do you do with their shoes? How long do you wear your wedding ring? 578 00:29:33,567 --> 00:29:36,778 Do you sleep in your side of the bed, or his side of the bed, or in the middle?" 579 00:29:36,861 --> 00:29:40,949 And at the end, I had a community. And I wanted other people to have that. 580 00:29:41,032 --> 00:29:42,951 The only thing I can think of worse than being widowed 581 00:29:43,034 --> 00:29:44,494 is being widowed and being alone. 582 00:29:46,955 --> 00:29:51,543 We get to laugh. We get to cry. We get-- We get to be fully who we are. 583 00:29:51,626 --> 00:29:53,336 We don't have to explain anything. 584 00:29:53,420 --> 00:29:54,880 If we're talking, having fun, 585 00:29:54,963 --> 00:29:57,132 and then all of a sudden we burst into tears, like, okay. [laughs] 586 00:29:57,215 --> 00:29:58,967 -[Hillary laughs] -[Chelsea] Totally normal. 587 00:29:59,050 --> 00:30:01,177 -Totally normal. It's not a big deal. -[Chelsea] Aw. 588 00:30:01,261 --> 00:30:02,178 Just keep on trucking. 589 00:30:02,762 --> 00:30:05,432 [Hernandez] Everybody has a sense that they have something to give. 590 00:30:05,515 --> 00:30:08,184 And so, you're able to accept because you know that at some point, 591 00:30:08,268 --> 00:30:09,644 you're also gonna be able to give. 592 00:30:10,645 --> 00:30:12,731 Okay, Marquelle, get it in there! 593 00:30:12,814 --> 00:30:14,608 -Oh! -Oh. [speaks indistinctly] 594 00:30:14,691 --> 00:30:15,609 Look at you! 595 00:30:15,692 --> 00:30:17,694 Like, I get pretty competitive in sports. 596 00:30:18,278 --> 00:30:19,654 [Chelsea] I'm only competitive at things 597 00:30:19,738 --> 00:30:21,740 that I feel like I have reason to be competitive, but-- 598 00:30:21,823 --> 00:30:24,367 -We have to beat her mom's team. -[speaks indistinctly] 599 00:30:24,451 --> 00:30:27,412 -Okay, Chelsea. Okay, Chelsea! -[Chelsea stammers] 600 00:30:27,495 --> 00:30:29,414 -[team cheers] -[Villafuerte] You got this! 601 00:30:29,497 --> 00:30:30,540 Whoo! 602 00:30:30,624 --> 00:30:32,834 Right into the gutter, ladies and gentlemen. 603 00:30:34,878 --> 00:30:36,171 Oh, yes! 604 00:30:36,254 --> 00:30:38,465 -Uh-oh. Wait, is that my mom? -I think that-- 605 00:30:40,717 --> 00:30:41,718 What? 606 00:30:42,260 --> 00:30:44,304 -[laughs] -I mean, that looked pretty impressive. 607 00:30:44,387 --> 00:30:46,890 Okay, I think we should quit now while we're ahead. 608 00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:52,520 Tell me your name. 609 00:30:52,604 --> 00:30:55,273 -Sophia. Nice to meet you. -Nice to meet you, Sophia. 610 00:30:55,357 --> 00:30:57,859 So, Sophia found out she was pregnant after her husband died. 611 00:30:57,943 --> 00:30:58,777 Oh. 612 00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:01,905 I was 31 at the time, and my husband was 33. 613 00:31:01,988 --> 00:31:04,449 Like, completely unexpected of a heart attack. 614 00:31:05,283 --> 00:31:07,911 I came across Michelle's organization. 615 00:31:07,994 --> 00:31:12,165 There's something to be said about someone who understands firsthand 616 00:31:12,249 --> 00:31:13,917 what it's like to walk in your shoes. 617 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,670 Right. Absolutely. How old is your child now? 618 00:31:16,753 --> 00:31:18,380 -She is one and a half… -Oh, my. 619 00:31:18,463 --> 00:31:21,883 -…and as healthy and happy and, like… -Adorable. 620 00:31:21,967 --> 00:31:23,635 I'm chasing her around. 621 00:31:23,718 --> 00:31:26,388 So, life just has a way of throwing curveballs. 622 00:31:26,471 --> 00:31:28,390 And, you know, when we talk about gutsy women, 623 00:31:28,473 --> 00:31:33,770 I think it's how adaptable you are to when life doesn't go as planned. 624 00:31:33,853 --> 00:31:36,022 Yeah. Yeah. When life throws something at you. 625 00:31:36,731 --> 00:31:39,943 I was lucky enough to go to Camp Widow in 2015. 626 00:31:40,026 --> 00:31:41,194 -Was my first one. -[Hillary] Oh. 627 00:31:41,278 --> 00:31:45,073 Seven or eight months after Lynn passed. Thank goodness. 628 00:31:45,156 --> 00:31:47,867 I've talked to a lot of older LGBT folks 629 00:31:47,951 --> 00:31:51,496 who can't divulge they lost their partner, their person. 630 00:31:51,580 --> 00:31:55,125 It just adds a whole 'nother layer of grief obviously. 631 00:31:55,208 --> 00:31:57,669 -When you live your life a certain way… -[Hillary] Yeah. 632 00:31:57,752 --> 00:32:01,423 …you don't just change just because this law now applies to you. 633 00:32:03,174 --> 00:32:06,428 [Villafuerte] Lynn and I were called names very early on in our relationship, 634 00:32:06,511 --> 00:32:09,306 and so we wouldn't hold hands, except for maybe just a couple places. 635 00:32:09,389 --> 00:32:12,058 With marriage equality, when a woman says, "My wife," 636 00:32:12,142 --> 00:32:14,102 I'm like-- You know? Is that okay to say? 637 00:32:14,185 --> 00:32:17,022 You know? There's still that layer of fear and protection. 638 00:32:17,105 --> 00:32:18,732 Well, it's happened really fast. 639 00:32:18,815 --> 00:32:21,985 -I mean, it was a long struggle-- -It was a long journey, and then-- 640 00:32:22,068 --> 00:32:23,111 -Yes, and then… -Yeah. 641 00:32:23,194 --> 00:32:26,656 -…so much, you know, happened so quickly. -The velocity of progress, yeah. 642 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,660 When I came out, actually Defense of Marriage Act was happening. 643 00:32:30,744 --> 00:32:34,748 And I'm a good, law-abiding immigrant Catholic school kid, 644 00:32:34,831 --> 00:32:35,790 -you know? -[chuckles] 645 00:32:35,874 --> 00:32:37,542 If the government says this, 646 00:32:37,626 --> 00:32:39,502 and my parents are reading this and everyone is reading, 647 00:32:39,586 --> 00:32:42,214 then this must be how it should be. 648 00:32:42,297 --> 00:32:43,381 You know what I mean? 649 00:32:43,465 --> 00:32:47,302 Throughout my entire life until very late… 650 00:32:47,385 --> 00:32:50,055 [laughs] …you know, compared to you or you, 651 00:32:50,138 --> 00:32:53,516 -you knew, but nobody acknowledged. -Mmm. 652 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,270 But my daughter was so much further along faster, 653 00:32:57,354 --> 00:32:59,773 and it really made a big impact on me. 654 00:33:00,357 --> 00:33:03,735 It was very hard for me when I was campaigning in 2008 for my mom, 655 00:33:03,818 --> 00:33:08,281 and she supported civil unions, but she did not support marriage. 656 00:33:08,365 --> 00:33:11,243 I would often be asked, like, "Do you disagree with your mother?" 657 00:33:11,326 --> 00:33:14,287 And I would say, "Yes, there are areas." "Will you talk about them?" 658 00:33:14,371 --> 00:33:15,580 And I would say, "No," 659 00:33:15,664 --> 00:33:19,584 because I didn't want to become fodder to be used against her. 660 00:33:19,668 --> 00:33:23,213 But I couldn't also, like, look at myself in the mirror and-- 661 00:33:23,296 --> 00:33:26,174 and posture that we had no disagreements, 662 00:33:26,258 --> 00:33:28,843 'cause we had some, like, pretty profound ones at the time. 663 00:33:28,927 --> 00:33:31,012 Then I, you know, have to confess, 664 00:33:31,096 --> 00:33:33,431 I'd never really thought about marriage until I was, like, 665 00:33:33,515 --> 00:33:35,141 in my 20s and my friends started to get married. 666 00:33:35,225 --> 00:33:37,060 It just seemed so outrageous to me 667 00:33:37,143 --> 00:33:38,770 -that not all of my friends… -Yeah. 668 00:33:38,853 --> 00:33:39,688 …could get married. 669 00:33:39,771 --> 00:33:42,816 [Villafuerte] Legal marriage. I get why it's so important. 670 00:33:42,899 --> 00:33:44,693 When I had to make the phone calls and say, 671 00:33:44,776 --> 00:33:47,237 "I'm her partner, not her sister, not her cousin, not her mom." 672 00:33:48,071 --> 00:33:51,408 To be the one obligated to do that was such an honor 673 00:33:51,491 --> 00:33:53,243 and it was so validating. 674 00:33:53,326 --> 00:33:55,036 I hit the button for her to be cremated. 675 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,123 It was an honor to hit that. It was also devastating, but it-- 676 00:33:58,206 --> 00:34:01,251 For me it was, like, the ultimate partner, like-- 677 00:34:01,334 --> 00:34:04,045 I successfully did "Till death do us part." 678 00:34:04,129 --> 00:34:06,131 And this is just part of our love story. 679 00:34:06,214 --> 00:34:08,717 -That is a great way to describe it. -It-- It is, right? 680 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,385 I mean, we're still having memories together. 681 00:34:11,469 --> 00:34:13,305 -She's rolling her eyes. -Still part of my love story. 682 00:34:13,387 --> 00:34:14,639 -I love that. -Yeah. 683 00:34:17,767 --> 00:34:20,144 We had a quote on our wedding program. 684 00:34:20,228 --> 00:34:22,731 It said, "The only love you keep is the love you give away." 685 00:34:22,814 --> 00:34:27,068 And you have to give it away in order to really appreciate it 686 00:34:27,152 --> 00:34:28,737 and experience it yourself. 687 00:34:30,155 --> 00:34:33,782 [Hillary] And sometimes loving someone means fighting for them. 688 00:34:33,867 --> 00:34:36,411 Fighting to have your love recognized. 689 00:34:39,204 --> 00:34:45,003 There's so much more space now in our world for rebel hearts. 690 00:34:45,586 --> 00:34:50,050 The movement toward gay marriage, I want to celebrate the fact 691 00:34:50,133 --> 00:34:52,969 -that I and tens of millions of others… -Mm-hmm. 692 00:34:53,053 --> 00:34:55,931 …have made this evolutionary journey. 693 00:34:56,014 --> 00:34:57,015 Absolutely. 694 00:34:57,682 --> 00:35:01,478 When you're meeting with these couples who have sought your help, 695 00:35:01,561 --> 00:35:02,896 -sought your guidance… -Mm-hmm. 696 00:35:02,979 --> 00:35:07,817 …do they reinforce what you have chosen to do? 697 00:35:08,693 --> 00:35:12,197 When I get to know these couples, I become a part of not only their story, 698 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,823 -but part of the family. -Mmm. 699 00:35:14,449 --> 00:35:15,533 Dear gracious God, 700 00:35:16,451 --> 00:35:18,703 we thank you so much for the hands that I hold. 701 00:35:19,412 --> 00:35:21,039 [Ijanaten] Ruben and Ari are a queer couple 702 00:35:21,122 --> 00:35:23,625 from the outskirts of LA. 703 00:35:23,708 --> 00:35:26,086 It's in a space that leans conservatively, 704 00:35:26,169 --> 00:35:29,172 and they didn't have family who would support their union. 705 00:35:30,006 --> 00:35:31,841 They got literally kicked out. 706 00:35:31,925 --> 00:35:34,803 They are shuffling from couch to couch. 707 00:35:35,637 --> 00:35:36,930 And so, they were like, 708 00:35:37,013 --> 00:35:38,807 "Well, would you be able to do my wedding?" 709 00:35:38,890 --> 00:35:40,600 I was like, "I'll definitely do your wedding." 710 00:35:40,684 --> 00:35:44,062 They were like, "No one's gonna come, so it's just gonna be three of us." 711 00:35:44,145 --> 00:35:47,440 And I said, "No, it's not. This wedding is my gift to you." 712 00:35:48,108 --> 00:35:49,609 So, I go online, and I said, 713 00:35:49,693 --> 00:35:53,780 "I'm looking for a queer photographer and a cool location." That's what I put. 714 00:35:53,863 --> 00:35:57,867 At the end of this, the haircuts, the wedding planner, the cake, 715 00:35:57,951 --> 00:35:59,035 the everything, 716 00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,329 -was donated to this couple. -Oh. 717 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,041 [friend 1] Oh, wow. 718 00:36:05,125 --> 00:36:08,587 -[friends cheering, laughing] -[friend 1] Yes! Yes! 719 00:36:08,670 --> 00:36:10,046 -Yeah. -Hey! 720 00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:13,884 -Hey, princesa. Ooh, I'm like, "What?" -[chuckling] 721 00:36:13,967 --> 00:36:15,635 [Ijanaten] This is beautiful. 722 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,554 -[friend 1] Ruben's gonna flip. -[Ariadna chuckles] 723 00:36:20,098 --> 00:36:21,558 [Ruben] I have always felt like Ruben. 724 00:36:21,641 --> 00:36:24,352 I just didn't know what it was until my teenage years. 725 00:36:24,978 --> 00:36:27,772 I met Ari as a girl, but she was there with open arms, 726 00:36:27,856 --> 00:36:28,690 just to accept me. 727 00:36:28,773 --> 00:36:31,443 She said she doesn't care if I'm a man, woman, whatever I am, 728 00:36:31,526 --> 00:36:32,944 she just loves me for who I am. 729 00:36:36,781 --> 00:36:39,117 -[all giggling] -I feel better than flying. 730 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:40,702 I feel like I'm in the clouds. 731 00:36:49,586 --> 00:36:53,131 [Ijanaten] They say a goldfish is only as big as its surroundings. 732 00:36:54,216 --> 00:36:56,843 You put in a goldfish in this small tank, they stay small. 733 00:36:58,678 --> 00:37:02,224 We were able to toss Ari and Ruben in this huge ocean, 734 00:37:02,307 --> 00:37:04,184 and they are able to grow. 735 00:37:11,441 --> 00:37:12,651 [sighs deeply] 736 00:37:14,486 --> 00:37:18,782 "Queerly beloved…" [chuckles] "…today we are gathered here 737 00:37:18,865 --> 00:37:22,661 to witness the union of Ruben and Ariadna." 738 00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:28,041 The community rallied around them to craft a dream wedding 739 00:37:28,124 --> 00:37:30,043 that they didn't believe that they deserved. 740 00:37:30,126 --> 00:37:32,254 -All strangers that became family. -Wow. 741 00:37:32,337 --> 00:37:33,463 It was like a chosen family. 742 00:37:33,547 --> 00:37:35,840 -A chosen family. -A chosen family. I love that phrase. 743 00:37:37,884 --> 00:37:39,010 Come a little closer. 744 00:37:40,637 --> 00:37:41,972 [chuckles] 745 00:37:42,889 --> 00:37:46,851 Ari, we've been through a lot. I love you through it all. 746 00:37:46,935 --> 00:37:50,647 Through our ups, the highest as we had, the lowest of the lows. 747 00:37:50,730 --> 00:37:53,066 I wanna be by your side forever. 748 00:37:54,109 --> 00:37:58,572 Ruben, life is crazy, but it will be even crazier without you. 749 00:37:59,614 --> 00:38:02,409 You're my soul mate. [chuckles] What more can I say? 750 00:38:02,492 --> 00:38:03,994 I'm ready to marry you. [chuckles] 751 00:38:04,077 --> 00:38:05,412 [laughs] You want me to hurry up, huh? 752 00:38:05,495 --> 00:38:07,747 [all laughing] 753 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:18,008 By the power vested in me by the State of California, 754 00:38:18,091 --> 00:38:23,138 I declare you husband and wife. You may seal your union with a kiss. 755 00:38:23,638 --> 00:38:25,974 [crowd cheering] 756 00:38:34,316 --> 00:38:35,317 [sniffs] 757 00:38:37,485 --> 00:38:39,154 [Ariadna chuckling] 758 00:38:41,615 --> 00:38:45,619 We have met some extraordinary women 759 00:38:45,702 --> 00:38:48,580 on this, uh, journey to discover rebel hearts. 760 00:38:48,663 --> 00:38:51,917 The choice I make may not be the choice you make, 761 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,463 or the choice Gloria, Reverend Whittney, or Abby makes, 762 00:38:56,546 --> 00:39:00,300 but we need to have the support from society, 763 00:39:00,383 --> 00:39:02,802 as well as the internal fortitude, 764 00:39:02,886 --> 00:39:05,597 to make the decisions that are right for us. 765 00:39:06,181 --> 00:39:08,892 [Chelsea] Each of the women brings their love into the world. 766 00:39:08,975 --> 00:39:11,728 Creates more love for themselves and their families, 767 00:39:11,811 --> 00:39:16,233 sometimes has to painfully reimagine what love can mean for them 768 00:39:16,316 --> 00:39:18,568 after terrible loss. 769 00:39:18,652 --> 00:39:21,154 And ultimately it just gives me a lot of hope 770 00:39:21,238 --> 00:39:25,784 that there is so much love being nurtured, 771 00:39:25,867 --> 00:39:28,745 created and shared. 772 00:39:29,454 --> 00:39:30,830 And you-- I'll never forget, Mom. 773 00:39:30,914 --> 00:39:33,041 We were at an event, and someone was speaking, and she said, 774 00:39:33,124 --> 00:39:34,834 "You know, I have loved and I have been loved, 775 00:39:34,918 --> 00:39:37,254 -and all the rest is background music." -Absolutely. 776 00:39:37,337 --> 00:39:40,632 I remember that. I think about that all the time. 777 00:39:40,715 --> 00:39:41,883 -So do I. -[chuckles] 778 00:39:41,967 --> 00:39:48,557 You are a Libra, and I am a Virgo. On paper, we are not meant to be. 779 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,726 We are literally rewriting the stars. 780 00:39:51,810 --> 00:39:54,396 I can't believe I get to live this life with you. 781 00:39:54,479 --> 00:39:56,439 -Every day. -I mean, it's the miracle of our lives. 782 00:39:56,523 --> 00:39:57,732 -Yeah. -Even though it is hard work 783 00:39:57,816 --> 00:39:58,900 and you drive each other nuts 784 00:39:58,984 --> 00:40:01,444 -and all the normal things. Yeah. -Totally drive each other nuts. 785 00:40:01,528 --> 00:40:03,154 That's being a unit long-term. 786 00:40:03,238 --> 00:40:05,365 -Now you can kiss me. Mmm. -So-- 787 00:40:07,158 --> 00:40:09,703 -[sighs] -So it's done? Oh, wow, nice. 788 00:40:09,786 --> 00:40:10,787 [laughs] 789 00:40:11,371 --> 00:40:12,581 So, we can get up? 790 00:40:12,664 --> 00:40:14,124 No. You're gonna stay, and I'm going home. 791 00:40:14,207 --> 00:40:17,335 -[chuckles] Leave him here. [laughs] -Oh.