There was a boy across the street whose mother was so lazy that…
he would-- he would eat ice cream for breakfast.
-[Martin] Oh! -I would go to his house to go to school,
and he would be sitting on the counter, something if I did…
-Oh, you'd be-- Yes. [laughs] -…I would have been sent to prison.
But, I mean, that household was, to me, like… like the Marquis de Sade.
There were children sitting on the counter.
One time I walked in, and not only was he eating ice cream…
This is like seven o'clock in the morning. He's eating it, not with a spoon…
First, out of the box, which was never allowed at my house.
-Oh! -…with a pretzel!
[laughs]
And I thought, "These people. It's just unbelievable how they live."
You and I discussed this backstage briefly. Could we--
-Smoke. -Could we smoke.
-On stage. -And we can't.
-We can't, because it's against the law. -It's against the law.
["Nicotine" by Jane Birkin playing]
[Martin] Here we are.
-[Martin] What do you think? This is it. -[Fran] It's fine.
[Martin] Let's do it.
[woman] Just…
I'm sorry?
-No. No hairspray, because my… -[Martin] You can't do it.
-I can hardly breathe as it is. -[woman] Okay.
-You might as well just… -Yeah.
…suck on an exhaust pipe. -[Martin laughing]
[chuckles] Right? No…
I want the lung damage in my body
-to be from smoking. -[Martin] Yeah, yeah.
[Martin] Do you have a feeling about this philosophy
of aerobics and exercise prolonging your life, and…
Well, I guess… I mean… I don't have a philosophy about it.
You know, I do… You know…
Very few people used to exercise, when I was, like, a child or a kid.
Um… People didn't used to exercise as a thing to do.
-Mm-hmm. -People were certainly much more active.
-There's no question. Children especially. -Yeah.
Because we weren't even allowed to stay in the house, okay?
-[laughs] -So-- And not--
-That was not peculiar to my household. -No.
So that-- "Get out!"
-[laughing] -You know? I mean, "Just get out!"
And it wasn't because they thought we should have fresh air.
They thought, "We don't wanna see you. Get out of the house."
And so, you know, no one… "We don't wanna deal with you.
We're not interested. Get out of the house."
So we went out of the house and ran around and things children used to do.
Now, I mean, people ate much less then.
-Mmm. -That's another thing.
And it was because people had to, like, make food.
You know, there wasn't all this food already made.
And, um…
I think… Also, people didn't know that all these things were bad for you.
I think maybe knowing that they're bad for you maybe makes them worse for you.
But I mean, the-- my parents were, um…
You know, they were, uh, first-generation Americans,
and, you know, "Food, good."
-[Martin laughs] -You know? Not, "Food, bad."
-You know? "Meat, good." -"Good!"
-"Butter, good." Um… -[laughing]
Things that were considered bad for you were like candy.
But bad for your teeth, you know? Um…
I don't remember people talking about their health all the time.
You know? I mean, people were worried about things like polio.
-That was big-- -That was a big thing.
Until the polio vaccine was invented when I was very little child.
And that was like the greatest thing.
When I was a child and when you were a child, which was even before…
-Yes, that's right. -Yes?
-All right? Okay? -Much, much before.
-All children lived in-- -Smoke.
-In a total fog of smoke. -Yeah, smoke. Yeah.
-No, true. Everybody. -Okay? No one… And in my house…
I mean, I had a mother who'd never open a window,
[Martin laughs]
Because she didn't want any of that outdoor air to get into the house.
[audience and Martin laughing]
-That's right! -And-- So that you couldn't even see.
-[applause] -All right? In the '50s.
And we were in cars. Okay? We weren't allowed to open the windows in the cars.
My father puffed on his pipe. My mother smoked cigarettes.
So we sat, when we were little…
-Now they have all these safety measures. -They have a lot of things.
You can buckle kids in. It's like helmets.
Oh yeah. They dress children like astronauts.
-Yeah! -They bolt them into the back of the car.
[laughter]
Well… [chuckles] When we were little children…
-[snorts] Yes. -…there were no seat belts in cars.
We sat… Where did we sit? In the front seat,
on the laps of our smoking mothers.
[laughter and applause]
[Fran] I am addicted to cigarettes. It's an addiction. I know what an addiction is.
Is it smart to smoke cigarettes?
-It's idiotic! I know that. Okay? -[Martin laughs]
Uh-- You know, people will yell at me all the time, and I always say,
"Smoking is bad for you. I know. I heard."
There's certain things like,
okay, maybe we didn't realize it was bad for you to eat a lot of steak.
You know? I mean, I understand why people didn't realize that.
You know, especially people deprived of meat for so many generations.
-[chuckles] -But, you know,
breathing smoke into your lungs,
like, how did no one ever, like, think, "You know, probably not the best idea"?
-But people apparently didn't. -Yeah. Really--
They really, I mean, made you believe that there were safe cigarettes.
-Yeah. Safe cigarettes. -Really.
I remember my pediatrician, as a child.
I remember going into his office.
There was a giant ashtray on the desk of the doctor.
And he would be smoking.
Then after they gave you a horrible shot, the doctor would give you candy.
Yeah.
I would have no idea, as a six- or seven-year-old child,
that smoking could be bad for you, or that candy was bad for you,
'cause that's what they gave you after they gave you a shot, so--
Um…
So if hadn't started smoking at 12, I would not start smoking now, obviously.
Um, but I know what it is to be addicted to something, you know,
and I know that no one becomes addicted to something with that as the goal.
[upbeat '50s music playing]
[man] And here is the aptly titled "Butterfly Machine."
The girl is now at the chrysalis stage, but as more weight is put on underneath,
the wings become increasingly difficult to lift, as any butterfly will tell you.
Your bad habits can kill you. I've seen that. But your good habits won't save you.
You could have fantastically good habits, you know, and then… I can think of…
I'm not gonna say who it was, but I had a friend, you know,
who was one of the few people around my age
who never smoked, never drank,
and was always yelling at me for doing these things.
Her whole life, she ate, you know, broccoli and asparagus
and drank water and ran
and died of a brain tumor
-in her early 50s. -Oh.
And by the way, I mean, my mother just died, and she was almost 92.
So, you know, this way of life, you know, didn't kill you.
Even if I drop dead tomorrow, no one will say, "She was so young."
-[chuckles] -I am too old to die young.
If I die of smoking, if I die now, everyone would say, "What did you expect?"
If-- People are already annoyed I'm still alive.
-I know that, okay? -[laughing]
But, you know, now we have something that I really cannot tolerate.
-What? -Wellness.
-Oh yes. -Okay? Wellness.
I mean, it's in every newspaper, every magazine.
There are, like, wellness spas and wellness this and wellness that.
We didn't used to have wellness. And I think, "What is wellness?"
It's like extra health.
Wellness, to me, is a greediness.
It's not enough for me that I'm not sick. I have to be well.
-This is something you can buy. -[chuckles]
Okay? This wellness, you can buy it. You have to buy it, you know.
And there's special wellness foods,
-you know, um… -Mm-hmm.
…that are like, I don't know, seeds and teas and all this kind of stuff.
Drinks, smoothies, juices. You know, all this kind of stuff.
All the things that people seem to seek from wellness, I wouldn't want them.
No, thank you.
Okay? No, thank you.
I don't want to be, um… I know meditation is part of well. Yoga.
You know, about one third of the people in the street
in New York City have a yoga mat.
-[chuckles] Yeah. -Okay?
-That alone would keep me from yoga. -[laughs]
That alone. Carrying around, like, a little rolled-up rug…
-Yeah, no, that's… -…is really…
You know, New York used to be much more fashionable than that.
I don't like to see people walking around with these rugs.
-No, it's terrible. -It's terrible.
I mean, the last time I had a rug, I was in kindergarten.
-[laughs] -We had to bring one to school,
because we had to nap on the floor.
This idea of, like, wellness, I think, must be a California idea.
Um, it's just like in San Francisco,
or, what they call, something, I mean, Silicon Valley.
These kind of tech people are very concerned with their health,
-but not with your life. Um… -[laughs]
They are, um, the ones who are really rich, um…
They're, like, making all these efforts to live forever.
-Mmm. -And this is very important to them. Um…
And they have, I mean, I'm sure special foods and exercise
and all this kind of stuff, um,
but they also think the world is ending.
They have, like… You have to have your own air, your own water.
I-- If there's a big disaster, I don't wanna be one of the last people alive.
Why would I want to be?
I… I don't understand people who do.
But when I was a child and very worried about, um, nuclear war…
-Mmm. -…um, I was really worried.
-Yeah. -You know?
Because I really didn't-- I really wanted to live,
-'cause I was seven. -[laughs]
So-- But I'm not seven, and so I don't wanna die,
but if I did, it wouldn't be a tragedy.
I'm not seven. And I certainly don't wanna be alive
with the people who, like, saved up all these seeds and everything,
because these are not people I wanna spend time with.
If I don't wanna spend time with them now, why would I--
-Yeah! [laughs] -When there's other things to do
and everything's still intact,
why would I wanna spend time with them after?
♪ There was a turtle by the name of Bert ♪
♪ And Bert the turtle was very alert ♪
♪ When danger threatened him He never got hurt ♪
♪ He knew just what to do ♪
♪ He'd duck ♪
♪ And cover ♪
Remember what to do, friends.
Now tell me right out loud. What are you supposed to do when you see the flash?
[children] Duck and cover.
I don't know what children buy. What they're allowed to buy, of course.
I mean, I bought a little boy some candy for Valentine's Day,
and his parents acted like I gave him a gun.
-[Martin chuckles] -Like-- [laughs]
I said, "Is he allowed to have candy?" "Mmm, not really."
I had already handed it to the kid,
who was like-- couldn't believe this was happening to him, you know?
"This is my favorite!" he said, before he even opened it.
Um, I said, "It's so small."
I wanted to buy the big, giant box,
-but I thought, "They're gonna be upset." -Mmm.
So, uh, and then the mother of this child said to me,
"Were you allowed to have candy when you were a child?"
-Mm-hmm. -She's obviously older than her son,
but still vastly younger than me.
I said, "We were." She said, "Didn't they know it was bad for you?"
I said, "They thought it was bad for your teeth."
-Candy was bad for your teeth. -Right.
I said, um, "They didn't really think that all these things
that may or may not be bad for you were that bad for you."
I mean, they didn't really, um,
they weren't that interested in our health.
You know, they took you to the doctor. They told you not to eat candy.
My father used to scream at me because I had so many cavities,
-and it was expensive, you know? -[laughs]
Um, but other than that, they told you, "Yes, you have to eat your string beans."
But, I mean, it wasn't… I mean, they weren't that obsessed with it.
Children now, as you know, are not very strictly brought up,
um, except that they are deprived of many, many things, because it is bad for them.
Or for the environment. Children will tell you something's bad for the environment.
There's a… Well, she's now a woman. I mean, she now has a child. Um,
but she was… she lived in San Francisco.
So when she was three years old, this girl,
-who now is probably 33 years old, um… -Mm-hmm.
She said something to me. I was annoyed, and I said, "You're just a little girl,"
which was said to me 400 times a day when I was a child.
And she said, "I'm a woman." She was, like, three years old.
I said, "You're not a woman."
-[laughs] -"You are not a woman."
-Now, you can't say that to anyone. -No.
If someone says, "I'm a woman," you're a woman, okay?
You can be a three-year-old girl, a 70-year-old man, you could be a giraffe.
You're a woman? You're a woman.
Have you ever gone into therapy or self-help or any of that sort of thing?
No, no. I've gone to self-help,
-which, to me, is working. -Mm-hmm.
But anywhere people with, uh, similar disturbances get together for help?
Unfortunately, there are no people with similar disturbances.
-I haven't been able to form a group. -Yeah.
You know, since I guess my main, um… One…
I have two main activities in life. Smoking and plotting revenge.
[laughter]
-You don't really need a group. -No.
-I can plot by myself. -Uh-huh.
Sometimes, I use the phone.
-[David] Yeah. -[Fran] Um…
[David] But smoking is then, I guess, your--
-[Fran] It's my hobby. -[David] That's great.
-[Fran] If not my profession. -[David laughs]
We now live in an era where cigarettes are horrible for you.
That's been, like, for 30 years.
Marijuana's good for you. Now, marijuana's good for you.
Marijuana used to be…
When I say "used to be," I mean within the living memory of a nine-year-old!
-[Martin laughs] -Forget me.
It used to be a horrible thing that would lead to a life of desperate degradation.
Now it's a wonderful thing.
-It's curative. Yeah. Curative. -It's a wonderful thing.
It's-- They put it in jelly beans!
[Martin laughs]
Like there are… Some-- People have shown me,
"Look at this. It's like a jelly bean."
-Or a gummy bear or whatever you call it. -Lollipop.
-Yeah, it's a lollipop. -Yeah.
These are things children eat, you know? Um… [clears throat]
Now they won't let children have real lollipops,
but the mother has a lollipop with marijuana.
-[laughs] With marijuana! -It's like… With marijuana.
So it's like, you know, I smoked marijuana when I was young.
I didn't particularly… I didn't ever really like it.
I don't like the smell of it. Now, people don't smoke it as much.
I mean, they smoke it, but they also take these other things, candies or whatever.
I never really-- That's not the feeling I was ever, um, seeking,
was that feeling of kind of, that kind of light happiness.
Okay? That's not for me. No light happiness for me.
-Yeah! -[laughs] Um…
But I will tell you, in case anyone's interested,
I do have friends who are around my age or even older, um…
who I know to have been daily marijuana smokers for 50 years.
These are not the most acute people on the planet.
-Mmm. [laughs] -Okay? Let me assure you
that there is an aggregate effect, okay?
Because I knew them maybe when they started, okay?
So, you know, they're not, like, dangerous people, you know,
but they're not maybe the people you would consult anymore.
You might say, like… Like, sometimes I think, "My God, what happened to him?"
Then I realize, "Well, he…" And I've even said to people,
"So and so, I asked him something."
-"He was so vague. What happened to him?" -[laughs]
And she goes, "He's a pothead!" And I said, "I forgot."
If I was in charge I would say, "Marijuana, people like it. It's fun."
"Let them have it. What do I care?"
-[man] Do we want to take five? -[Martin] Sure.
-[man] You okay? -Yeah.
-[man] You wanna take a minute to, uh… -Yes. I wanna smoke.
[Fran] Girls, when I was a little girl,
you know, did things like play jacks and hopscotch and jump rope.
I'm sure they don't do it anymore.
[girl chants] Dee-Dee tagged in!
Dee-Dee tagged in!
[all chant] One, two, three, four.
But it would have meant that, if women were running the world,
that when women my age got to that age, there'd be professional jacks.
-[laughs] -It's just like…
And if you say, like, jacks or hopscotch,
they seem silly to men, but they're the same!
They're games! These are games.
A football game is a game. It's a game.
[commentator] And Reggie Miller in an animated discussion with Spike Lee,
who is an ardent Knick fan and has a courtside seat.
I think Spike has him revved up.
Spike is appealing to the official, Dan Crawford.
I don't think that Spike realizes he's not in the game.
[man] What about Spike Lee?
-Spike who? -[laughs]
-We will see you on Friday. -All right.
[Ahmad] Good luck to you.
[Spike Lee] You like sports?
-I do not like sports. In-- -So let me--
-In fact, I have to say I hate sports. -So--
Let-- You hate sports?
-Let me ask you a question. -Yes?
Kobe or LeBron?
[laughter]
The only reason I know who these people are…
[both laugh]
…is because I have a very close friend who loves sports.
Otherwise, I… I might not know either one.
But I have no, uh, preference between them.
-New York Giants, New York Jets? -No preference.
-I have no sports preference. -Rangers, Islanders, or the Devils?
Believe me when I tell you that I hate sports.
So, what do you when it's Super Bowl, on Super Bowl day?
Um, it's a very good day to go to a restaurant.
-[laughter] -Okay?
[Spike laughing]
[Fran] First of all, things like theaters where the New York City Ballet performs
or the Opera House or what used to be called
-Philharmonic Hall, you know. -[Martin] Yeah.
These are things that are important to the city even if you don't go.
You know, there's this idea now that
this should only be supported by the people who use it.
There's no idea like this about, say, football stadiums.
Okay, football stadiums…
Which, let me assure you, if you hear I'm at a football stadium,
you can imagine they're rounding people up,
and they've put me in with a gun to my head,
because otherwise, I'm not in a football stadium.
Football stadiums, you know, are routinely paid for by people who live in the city,
by which I mean these huge tax abatements
and, "Yes, we'll give you money, because we…"
They'll say, "Don't we wanna have a football team?"
-Not me. -[laughs]
I don't want a football team. Uh… I didn't wanna have one in high school.
I don't want one now. I certainly don't wanna pay for a football team. No.
I don't wanna pay for one.
Why do you hate sports?
You know, to me, this seems like, uh, a kind of appropriate thing
for, like, a seven-year-old child, you know?
Oh! Wait a minute!
-All right? -[laughter]
So… so if you're an adult,
then you do not paint your face and wear a jersey and all that stuff?
-The face paint. That's really attractive. -I don't do that. I don't do that!
Here's the thing I'm always shocked.
You see these people in the streets. They're screaming, "We won! We won!"
And I'm always thinking, "Who's we?" They won.
You lay on the sofa, drinking beer. Okay?
-So-- -But that's the great thing about sports.
You identify with a team.
Yeah, which is a business.
You never see people in the street going, "Yay! Coke won! Coke won! Pepsi lost!"
How they got you to do this, I'd like to know that.
-You hate sports! -Yes.
But the reason sports are so central is because men are in charge.
Okay? That is the reason.
-So-- -Men in charge of the world. So--
That is correct. So because they love sports…
Let me ask. If women were in charge of the world,
do you think there would be professional hopscotch?
I once said at a dinner party, when all these guys, who are all artists,
and all very well-known artists, they were talking about baseball.
I said, "I don't understand something."
"Does every, uh, man alive think, when they were a kid,
they were gonna be a professional baseball player?"
And this guy said, "Every man I would like did."
You come from a different era. Today, women wanna play sports,
and women are playing all types of sports.
-I know. -And they wanna play.
-I know. This is one reason… -So--
-…I'm glad I'm not a girl now. -Why?
Because when I was in school, girls didn't have to play football.
Girls didn't have to play sports, and that was the upside of being a girl.
-Okay? So now girls have to-- -But they-- It's not they--
They-- It's not they have to.
-They wanna play. -Yes, but we did not.
-[laughter] -Okay?
-We didn't want to, and we didn't have to. -And the world has evolved.
Yes. In that way.
I would prefer there be more women in Congress and fewer playing football, but…
[laughter]
[Fran] Many things that people do, especially now,
-on so-called vacations… -[Martin] Yeah.
…are things they used to make people do if you were a prisoner of war.
Like, I'm reading all the time,
-in the Times' travel section, a vacation… -[Martin] Climbing and jumping.
…where you can climb a mountain tied up with other people.
-[laughs] -You're on top of the mountain.
When you're there, you can jump off and…
This is a vacation that costs 15 grand a person.
And I think, this really, to me, it looks like the Bataan Death March.
At the end of the Bataan Death March, if anyone was alive, did they say,
"By the way, you owe me 15 grand, because that was a great experience"?
I think, "Why do people do these things?"
-People wanna challenge themselves. -Yeah. Oh, yeah.
You know. This is a big thing that people say all the time.
"I wanna challenge myself."
These challenges are fake.
Climbing a mountain is a fake challenge. You don't have to climb a mountain. Okay?
There are many things that people have to do and should do that they don't do
because they're scared to do or they're hard to do or they're bad at it.
Those are challenges.
A challenge is something you have to do. Not something you make up.
You know, like, people do all these kind of,
what used to be called "extreme things."
Now, many people participate in them. "I wanted to challenge myself."
I always think, "What kind of life do you have?"
I find real life challenging enough.
I'm telling you something, if I get to the dry cleaners
-without having a huge fight… -[laughing]
…you know, and even get the clothes there and get them back
without, like, you know, yelling,
-"I'm gonna sue you!" -Oh!
You know? Or having someone threaten me, that's challenge enough.
-Yeah. -I always think, "Really?"
Real life has always been challenging enough to me.
I do not need to seek out, um, these completely fantastical challenges.
I have a tremendous fear of being physically hurt.
And so… And I always have.
So, I avoid activities
where there's a very high chance of being physically hurt,
which is any activity that requires a helmet.
-[chuckling] A helmet! -Okay?
[narrator] Well, the boys have pitched their tents,
and they're preparing to do some fishing.
Boating, fishing, swimming and every other kind of water sport
are open to all campers.
And here, at least, a wife's place need not be at home.
[Fran] There's a place called Lake Powell. It's huge. It's an artificial lake.
And the lake was stocked with millions of fish so that people could fish.
Apparently, this is where many people went for an experience of nature.
-Um… -[Martin laughs]
[Fran] So I went there, and I was on this houseboat that this guy got.
In order to fish there, you have to get a fishing license.
So you have to go to this giant store.
In order to get the fishing license, I had to show my driver's license.
So the woman, who looked at first to me like a normal human being,
um, asked for my driver's license.
At that time, New York State driver's licenses did not have photographs on them.
It was common in the West, but we didn't have them yet on the driver's license.
So I handed her my license. She looked at it. She looked at me, and she said,
"What's the matter? You don't have photographs on your license in Jew York?"
-[Martin gasps] Mmm. -I was really shocked.
-[Martin] Mmm. -I said, "No."
She said, "Why not?" I said, "Because we can read."
[laughter]
So I remember this very vividly.
Um… [chuckles]
So we now have photographs, but we don't need them, 'cause we can still read.
[commentator] The six fastest sprinters in the world are getting ready.
Owens, America.
Borchmeyer, Germany.
And Metcalfe of America.
[crowd cheering]
Owens is ahead!
Strandberg and Borchmeyer, fighting. Osendarp challenges Wykoff.
Metcalfe comes up, but Owens wins in 10.3.
[Spike] The 1936 Olympics.
Jesse Owens wins how many gold medals,
and Hitler refuses to shake
his hand.
As far as African-Americans in this country,
a lot of the breakthroughs we've done in this country as African-Americans
has been through sports first.
You go through Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali.
The world would not be the place it is today if there wasn't a Muhammad Ali.
I mean, he had, his stuff, shit,
-was way bigger than just boxing. -I agree.
I love Muhammad Ali. I went to a Muhammad Ali fight at the Garden.
Oh! Now you went to a fight!
-[Fran] Yeah. -[laughter and applause]
-But not-- -Wait, wait, wait. Which fight?
-You went to the first Frazier-- -Yes.
-But not-- -Wait, wait, wait, wait.
You went to the first Ali-Frazier fight?
-Yes. -One of the greatest fights ever?
-Yes. -And you hate sports?
-Yes. -Oh, get outta here!
-No-- But I love Muhammad Ali. -The one where Frank Sinatra
-was ringside taking pictures? -Yes! Yes.
-And you went? -Yes.
Why'd you go?
I went with a girl who knew Frank Sinatra.
Knew in the fullest sense of the word.
-So-- -He gave her the tickets.
Was she assisting him while he was taking pictures ringside?
-She was not assisting him then, no. -Right.
[laughter and applause]
But she was known to assist him. So she gave me the tickets.
I really wanted to go. I love Muhammad Ali. So--
Wait. You love Muhammad Ali, but how can you just take him out of sports?
I loved him as a political figure. I loved Muhammad Ali.
Yes, but poli-- But his being heavyweight world champion gave him the platform--
That's right, but that was his problem. My interest in him…
-That's how he got there. -But how did he get the platform? When--
He couldn't have. So it was lucky that he was a very good fighter.
-However-- -Good? He was great.
I… I believe you.
I sat there like this, and a guy behind me screamed at me,
"Switch seats with me!"
-"You don't deserve that seat!" -You hate sports, but went to one
of the greatest sporting events
-in the history of sport. -Yes.
-And you had great seats. -Yes.
-But also, the clothes were fantastic. -[laughter]
-Everybody was dressed up. -Everyone was dressed.
So it was, to me, better than any fashion show you could go to now.
It was a very wonderful fashion and cultural event.
Unfortunately, there was a fight in the middle.
[laughter]
Someone asked me once, "Why did you go to that fight?"
"I went for the clothes."
There was still a big pimp culture in New York then. You know?
There were pimps all over the streets. There were pimpmobiles.
You could not believe the way people dressed.
The pimps wore these big hats, and they came in with, like, 12 girls behind them.
Now, you couldn't do that.
I'm not suggesting it was a delightful thing,
but it was interesting.
But I really-- I love Muhammad Ali, you know, as a figure,
but I hate fighting.
I hated it. I… I mean, I can't believe it's legal.
I know… You know, people--
I argue with people about this all the time. You know.
And even an Ali fight, where there wasn't even that much punching,
-because he was such a dancer, you know. -[Martin] Yes.
But, um, I can't believe it's legal.
I cannot believe that it is legal
to watch human beings beat each other up as a sport.
I know that people love it. I know I'm gonna get yelled…
But you know… you know what's illegal? Cockfighting.
Cockfighting is two chickens fighting each other.
-We eat chickens! -[laughing]
Okay? At least, I eat chickens. I know some people don't.
So we eat chickens, but they can't fight with each other, because it's too brutal.
["La Dolce Vita (Finale) by Nino Rota playing]
[Fran] I refused to go to a dinner party for Leni Riefenstahl.
-[Martin] Ah. -[Fran] Okay?
When Leni Riefenstahl published this book called--
-[Martin] Nuba. -[Fran] Nu-- Nubia.
-Nuba? Nuba. -[Martin] Nuba.
[Fran] And a guy I knew, who's now dead,
gave a dinner party for her and it was small.
It was, like, 12 people, and more than 12 people wanted to go.
And I refused to go.
He said, "What do you mean, you're not coming?"
I said, "I'm not going to a party for Leni Riefenstahl. Don't be ridiculous."
He said, "You know, Fran, you have to admit, she's a great artist."
I said, "I don't care."
Now I can't think of the name of the movie. The movie about the Olympics.
-[Martin] Oh, Olympia is good. -[Fran] That movie used to play
in S&M bars, behind bars.
It played with the sound off.
She always had a big following in New York among a certain kind of person.
And this guy said, "Don't you think that's a great movie?"
"Isn't she a great filmmaker?" I said, "Yes."
I said, "To take that talent
-and put it in the service of this…" -Mmm.
"That is worse! It would be better if she was a horrible filmmaker."