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The story's characters:
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YANN LEMÉE,
KNOWN AS YANN ANDRÉA;
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00:00:59,625 --> 00:01:03,875
MICHÈLE MANCEAUX, WRITER,
JOURNALIST, COLUMNIST IN MARIE CLAIRE;
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MARGUERITE DURAS,
FAMOUS DIRECTOR AND FILMMAKER
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Capri, it's over
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To think it was the town
of my first love
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Capri, it's over
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I don't think I'll go back one day
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We will never go again
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Where you told me ''I love you"
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We will never go again
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Like previous years
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Sometimes I would like
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To tell you "Let's start again"
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But I loose heart
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Knowing you'll say no
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Capri, it's over
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To think it was the town
of my first love
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00:02:05,583 --> 00:02:08,375
Capri, it's over
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I don't think I'll go back one day
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Capri, it's over
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To think it was the town
of my first love
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Capri, it's over
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I don't think I'll go back one day
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I WANT TO TALK ABOUT DURAS
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00:03:51,917 --> 00:03:54,458
We'll do the interview
you asked for.
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You and Marguerite,
who I saw downstairs.
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-She looks well.
-You saw her?
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She wanted to bring up coffee.
I declined:.
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"I've had my coffee.
Thanks, Marguerite."
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-I hope she doesn't come up.
-No...
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We'll do the interview
you asked me for.
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00:04:19,125 --> 00:04:21,833
You and Marguerite,
who I saw downstairs.
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-She looks well.
-Ah, you saw her?
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December 2
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1982.
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-I want to talk about Duras.
-Ok.
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And yet it is so enormous,
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So crazy...
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I don't know how to start.
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How to tackle the character, Duras.
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Maybe start with your fascination?
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Yes.
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Maybe I could say how I met her?
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Ok.
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It was several years ago.
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I was... I don't know... 22.
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In the place I was, there was
"The Little Horses of Tarquinia".
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It belonged to a girl who lived there.
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And I read it.
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And this book immediately...
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enthralled me.
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00:05:41,958 --> 00:05:45,708
3 days later, I was drinking
a Bitter Campari in a café.
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It was in Caen,
so Bitter Campari wasn't very popular.
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Then, I read everything else.
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So much so that I only
read her books.
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I was studying philosophy.
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I gave up everything,
other than her books.
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Even the author felt
so present to me.
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It's funny,
because I didn't know her at all.
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Nobody - not a friend or teacher -
had told me I should read Duras.
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That's just how it was.
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I picked up the book
and it knocked me out.
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I'm nearly 30.
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I was 21, 22 then.
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So, it's been 7 or 8 years.
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What's extraordinary is that
it's never stopped.
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It's never stopped.
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On the contrary, I gradually created
a vacuum of reading around me
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because it seemed to me...
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that's all there is.
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Those texts.
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I could only read a few pages,
as it was so overwhelming.
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And I didn't want to get to know her.
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So, I was a student in Caen.
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In Normandy.
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Then came "India Song".
I saw it 10 times.
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So, the event for me was
that Duras was coming to Caen.
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I was there.
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I attended the debate.
I couldn't speak, I was in a panic.
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There was a Q&A at the end,
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so I ended up asking a question.
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What was it?
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It wasn't a question actually.
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I wanted to tell her
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that I didn't understand
the final shot of "India Song".
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...the final shot of the map.
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And all of a sudden, I said:
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"Now I see. It's the same way of filming
the remains of Anne-Marie Stretter,
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when the camera moves over
the wig, the jewelry, the dress.
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It's the same way of filming
the map of Asia."
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She said: "Yes, you're right."
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I was delighted.
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But very hung up.
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I wanted to buy her flowers.
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I was told: "No.
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It's not done. Don't be a groupie.
It's Duras, after all!
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Don't do that."
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So I didn't.
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But I wanted to be
a bit demonstrative, you know?
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In my pocket, I had a copy
of "Destroy, She said".
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"Destroy, She Said"...
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After the debate, when everyone
had gone and she was leaving,
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I asked her to sign the book.
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She signed it.
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I asked if I could write to her
at her publisher's.
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She said: "No, write to me at home:
5 Rue Saint Benoît."
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I was amazed
that she gave me her address.
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Try to go into every detail
in your memory.
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The physical impression
she made on you, things like that.
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-Am I intervening too much?
-No.
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Tell me if I am.
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The physical impression...
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All of a sudden,
when the lights went up,
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she came out with the interviewer.
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I thought she wrote that.
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I spent my days with her works.
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She had a leather vest,
a check skirt,
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rings and bracelets.
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I noticed the bracelets and rings.
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it's her.
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And that voice...
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I discovered that voice.
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As soon as she started speaking,
there was total silence.
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They said:
"Marguerite Duras is here."
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She said: "Yes, I'm here.
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I'm Marguerite Duras, I made this film.
I await your questions.
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If there aren't any,
I'll go. I don't care."
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Imagine a 5 - minute silence.
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And I felt,
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Maybe retroactively,
that she knew.
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I felt she'd seen me.
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And at the café, afterwards?
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What bothered me, I now know,
was the others.
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There were 10 other people,
I wanted to have her to myself.
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To yourself.
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After that, of course,
I wrote to her very often.
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The first letter
was very clumsy, I think.
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"I love you so much,
I'd like to meet you.
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But I don't know if I should.
I don't want to spoil things."
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She replied a year later to the day:
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"I reread your letter.
I cannot answer it. It's your decision.
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It's not up to me to say
if you should see me."
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She said: "I can't
answer that request."
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So, I realized
there was no point seeing her.
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I really wanted to,
but I knew there was no point.
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I wrote a lot,
as I reread her texts.
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For her.
The letters were often simple.
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What kept coming back was:
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"I love you."
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I took excerpts from her books
and sent them to her.
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She never replied.
I didn't expect a reply.
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-Can I ask you a question?
-Yes.
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I never know
if I should ask you questions or not.
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Do you feel like talking
about your love life at the time?
156
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I mean, did you share
this love for her with others,
157
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with people
you could love physically or not?
158
00:13:15,833 --> 00:13:21,042
Yes, I shared this passion I had for her
with the girl I was living with.
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I remember that evenings ended,
drinking whisky and reading Duras.
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This girl called Bénédicte
did a Master's on Duras later.
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The people I saw at the time
were all into Duras.
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They liked Duras,
but they also liked something else.
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-You loved Bénédicte, too?
-Ah, yes.
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The love I had
for that girl was...
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experienced over time.
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You don't think
it's going to end, but
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experienced over time.
That's the difference.
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My relationship with Duras,
with her texts, with her,
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was total love.
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It was... eternity.
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And that completely belonged to me.
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Do you want to try to say now,
or maybe later,
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what appealed to you most deeply,
outside the texts?
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What affected you most in her writings?
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I never analyzed what affected...
what affects me.
176
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It's in the present tense.
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I think it's the dimension of time...
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and that of death.
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Not passion?
180
00:15:23,292 --> 00:15:25,292
Yes passion, but...
181
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Yes, passion, but passion
which is struck by death...
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struck by lightning.
183
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I immediately
said to myself...
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"That is truth.
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The truth of passion,
the truth of love
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is death.
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Anne-Marie Stretter's love for...
188
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What's his name?
189
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That love which
destroys everything...
190
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destroys someone, too.
191
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Nothing can exist,
love can't exist
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without someone's destruction,
without death.
193
00:16:12,083 --> 00:16:16,000
What you're saying is very important.
Do you realize that?
194
00:16:19,917 --> 00:16:23,833
The vision I had of "India Song",
where people are...
195
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funeral celebrations,
I don't know how to put it...
196
00:16:28,458 --> 00:16:30,083
Dead people...
197
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I felt it was completely that,
198
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completely right,
that's what life is...
199
00:16:38,917 --> 00:16:40,708
but dead life.
200
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Life recreated.
201
00:17:44,792 --> 00:17:48,292
-The French Vice-Consul from Lahore.
-Yes.
202
00:17:49,583 --> 00:17:52,083
Sent to Calcutta in disgrace.
203
00:18:39,458 --> 00:18:41,542
He's come back to the grounds?
204
00:18:42,417 --> 00:18:43,667
Yes.
205
00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:47,333
He comes every night.
206
00:18:54,208 --> 00:18:58,042
This somewhat dead,
yet completely passionate world,
207
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:00,500
that I see struck by lightning...
208
00:19:01,958 --> 00:19:04,167
corresponded in me to that...
209
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A total failure.
210
00:19:09,583 --> 00:19:11,083
A failure.
211
00:19:17,167 --> 00:19:21,000
Well, I was talking about the point
you may see her.
212
00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:23,417
So...
213
00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:26,667
Maybe it's too soon, I don't know...
214
00:19:27,708 --> 00:19:28,958
Yes...
215
00:19:30,583 --> 00:19:32,750
I wrote very often.
216
00:19:33,458 --> 00:19:35,333
Many letters I never sent.
217
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Never any answer.
218
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And one day, I received a letter.
219
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She said: "I've been sick."
220
00:19:44,833 --> 00:19:47,750
It must have been
in February or March 1980.
221
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She said:
222
00:19:50,042 --> 00:19:52,208
"I think about you a lot.
223
00:19:53,417 --> 00:19:55,750
Your letters are wonderful..."
224
00:19:57,875 --> 00:20:01,750
Go on, you have to say
what's in your heart.
225
00:20:02,042 --> 00:20:03,542
Yes...
226
00:20:03,833 --> 00:20:08,083
Don't be afraid what you think
is naive or overly sensitive.
227
00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:09,667
Get it out.
228
00:20:12,583 --> 00:20:14,958
I was overwhelmed by that letter.
229
00:20:15,458 --> 00:20:18,583
In a way, I realized
I was part of her life.
230
00:20:19,083 --> 00:20:21,417
I had that confirmed later,
231
00:20:21,583 --> 00:20:24,250
she kept all my letters in a drawer.
232
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While I thought I was
the only one experiencing this passion,
233
00:20:30,375 --> 00:20:35,083
suddenly I realized
with this letter received 6 years later,
234
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that this passion was reciprocal.
235
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She too, in a way, shared this passion.
236
00:20:45,583 --> 00:20:48,958
So, I wrote her back, beside myself...
237
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beside myself to get a letter like that.
238
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I knew she was in Trouville.
One day, I phoned.
239
00:20:56,875 --> 00:20:58,583
She gave you her number?
240
00:20:58,750 --> 00:21:01,958
No, she didn't give me
her number or anything.
241
00:21:02,792 --> 00:21:05,125
I found her number quite simply.
242
00:21:06,792 --> 00:21:10,208
She always says
her number is unlisted.
243
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I found out Duras isn't
her real name. That really affected me.
244
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Go on.
245
00:21:17,208 --> 00:21:20,417
Well, for me, Duras was Duras.
246
00:21:22,542 --> 00:21:25,333
She couldn't be called anything else.
247
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A friend said: "Her name isn't Duras.
It's a pen name. Her name is Donnadieu."
248
00:21:33,625 --> 00:21:35,167
What a catastrophe!
249
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Her name was real to me, so real.
250
00:21:40,750 --> 00:21:43,167
Suddenly, I discovered it was fake.
251
00:21:44,125 --> 00:21:48,167
It was fiction
because she had a pseudonym.
252
00:21:48,792 --> 00:21:50,583
I just flipped.
253
00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:53,083
Reality, fiction...
254
00:21:53,250 --> 00:21:55,167
I wanted to forget all that.
255
00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,917
But thanks to that, I found her number.
256
00:21:59,667 --> 00:22:04,875
I called, someone answered:
"No, she is in the countryside."
257
00:22:06,417 --> 00:22:10,458
I lied when they said:
"Do you have the number?"
258
00:22:10,625 --> 00:22:14,417
"Of course, but not on me.
Can you give it to me?"
259
00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,958
That's how I got her other number.
260
00:22:18,417 --> 00:22:20,000
And I called her here.
261
00:22:20,708 --> 00:22:22,208
In Neauphle.
262
00:22:23,833 --> 00:22:27,042
I immediately started to tremble.
263
00:22:27,375 --> 00:22:29,250
I said: "It's Yann."
264
00:22:29,708 --> 00:22:33,750
She said: "Oh, my!"
I mean, she was very...
265
00:22:34,417 --> 00:22:37,542
She started talking a lot
about all kinds.
266
00:22:39,875 --> 00:22:43,000
My phone bill was astronomical!
267
00:22:43,167 --> 00:22:45,542
I had no money back then.
268
00:22:46,542 --> 00:22:50,000
That's how I first spoke to her
on the phone.
269
00:22:51,542 --> 00:22:54,625
You don't remember
what she said to you?
270
00:22:55,667 --> 00:22:57,000
I do.
271
00:22:57,958 --> 00:23:00,875
"You write me such fantastic letters."
272
00:23:01,625 --> 00:23:05,833
It was the summer of 1980
when she was writing for Libération.
273
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,917
I said it was very good. I didn't know
what to say as I was overwhelmed
274
00:23:11,083 --> 00:23:13,167
to hear her voice on her phone.
275
00:23:20,958 --> 00:23:23,333
What struck me
is that she laughed.
276
00:23:26,917 --> 00:23:29,667
I couldn't imagine Duras laughing.
277
00:23:30,708 --> 00:23:33,917
And all of a sudden, she laughed.
278
00:23:34,625 --> 00:23:36,625
I don't know what about.
279
00:23:37,542 --> 00:23:41,375
But I said to myself:
"She's 18 years old."
280
00:23:42,333 --> 00:23:44,750
It was pretty moving.
281
00:23:53,417 --> 00:23:56,083
We talked and she said:
282
00:23:57,292 --> 00:23:58,292
"I'm going back
283
00:23:58,458 --> 00:24:00,542
to Trouville. Call me."
284
00:24:02,583 --> 00:24:05,000
At the end of the month, I phoned.
285
00:24:06,042 --> 00:24:08,958
She said: "Come see me in Trouville."
286
00:25:14,875 --> 00:25:17,292
It was complicated,
I rang her once,
287
00:25:17,458 --> 00:25:21,000
she said: "No, I'm working.
I'm scared to see you,
288
00:25:21,167 --> 00:25:25,208
to see new people. I don't know
if we should see each other.
289
00:25:25,375 --> 00:25:27,042
Maybe it's not worth it."
290
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:34,417
I said: "Yes, indeed,
maybe it's not worth it, but I'm here."
291
00:25:34,583 --> 00:25:36,250
... I'm here.
292
00:25:37,375 --> 00:25:41,542
She said: "Call me in 2 hours' time."
So, I called her back.
293
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,083
She said:
"Come, but bring a bottle of wine."
294
00:25:46,625 --> 00:25:51,000
So, I brought a bottle of wine
to Les Roches Noires, the hotel.
295
00:25:58,167 --> 00:26:00,167
When I arrived, she kissed me.
296
00:26:03,958 --> 00:26:05,583
Very tenderly.
297
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,000
And I immediately felt something.
298
00:26:12,125 --> 00:26:14,375
I didn't think she'd kiss me.
299
00:26:14,958 --> 00:26:19,417
But it was if she'd known me
for 6 years.
300
00:26:19,583 --> 00:26:22,500
I'd been writing to her
for 6 or 7 years.
301
00:26:23,167 --> 00:26:26,917
It was like a friend turning up.
Maybe not a friend...
302
00:26:27,708 --> 00:26:31,000
And we talked and talked
about her books.
303
00:26:31,958 --> 00:26:33,792
And I stayed.
304
00:26:35,250 --> 00:26:39,542
I think you need to say more.
305
00:26:40,208 --> 00:26:43,583
Because you say "like a friend".
306
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:46,292
-No.
-I don't know, but...
307
00:26:47,792 --> 00:26:49,583
You need to go further.
308
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:57,917
If I have to come out with it...
309
00:27:03,583 --> 00:27:06,875
What I can say is
that someone whose name I saw,,
310
00:27:07,042 --> 00:27:10,458
someone who was a passion to me...
311
00:27:11,667 --> 00:27:13,583
I saw her living.
312
00:27:14,667 --> 00:27:17,250
And I said to myself:
313
00:27:17,417 --> 00:27:21,708
"She's not only fantastic
in her books,
314
00:27:21,875 --> 00:27:23,583
she's fantastic, period.
315
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,542
She's fantastic."
316
00:27:28,125 --> 00:27:32,000
Suddenly, there was this shift
from the fiction in my head
317
00:27:32,167 --> 00:27:34,250
to her, see?
318
00:27:36,750 --> 00:27:42,417
And in the same way,
I was carried away, enchanted
319
00:27:42,583 --> 00:27:45,042
by her texts, captivated...
320
00:27:45,208 --> 00:27:47,667
I didn't let go for years.
321
00:27:48,833 --> 00:27:52,583
Similarly, I was captivated by her.
322
00:27:54,792 --> 00:27:57,792
I left my job,
my apartment.
323
00:27:59,583 --> 00:28:01,167
And I stayed.
324
00:28:07,458 --> 00:28:11,750
And the relationship I had
with her texts, this relationship
325
00:28:11,917 --> 00:28:15,250
of the domination she had
over me, regarding her texts,
326
00:28:15,417 --> 00:28:17,833
her imagination she imposed on me...
327
00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:20,792
It immediately came just like that.
328
00:28:21,917 --> 00:28:26,292
I was in a relationship
of fascination, admiration...
329
00:28:27,208 --> 00:28:29,042
and also of...
330
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:31,583
of domination.
331
00:28:32,167 --> 00:28:34,125
You mean submission?
332
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,292
Yes, submission.
333
00:28:38,792 --> 00:28:43,542
Will you say more...
Would you have had this emotion...
334
00:28:43,833 --> 00:28:46,833
Did the fact that she was a woman
play a part?
335
00:28:47,708 --> 00:28:49,792
That's hard to say.
336
00:28:49,958 --> 00:28:52,167
It's up to you to say more or not.
337
00:28:52,333 --> 00:28:53,833
It's your call.
338
00:28:57,667 --> 00:29:01,292
I don't like the word, "submission".
It's more...
339
00:29:04,375 --> 00:29:05,792
acceptance.
340
00:29:06,667 --> 00:29:09,625
Accepting that she...
341
00:29:14,625 --> 00:29:17,167
So, about this initial encounter...
342
00:29:19,333 --> 00:29:20,792
Yes.
343
00:29:21,833 --> 00:29:23,167
We had a drink.
344
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,125
We talked for quite a long time.
345
00:29:26,542 --> 00:29:28,125
I said to her:
346
00:29:28,292 --> 00:29:29,765
"I don't have a hotel."
347
00:29:29,817 --> 00:29:32,583
"They're all full
in summer in Trouville."
348
00:29:43,333 --> 00:29:46,667
She said:
"You can stay here if you like.
349
00:29:46,833 --> 00:29:48,375
My son's room is free."
350
00:29:49,167 --> 00:29:50,792
Just like that, see?
351
00:29:51,708 --> 00:29:54,500
So, I said yes and I stayed there.
352
00:30:07,417 --> 00:30:10,583
All of a sudden,
over the following days,
353
00:30:10,750 --> 00:30:12,333
maybe a week later,
354
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,208
our relationship became very tender,
355
00:30:15,708 --> 00:30:19,625
very affectionate,
very loving in a way.
356
00:30:21,542 --> 00:30:25,417
I always had this idea
that she was a woman,
357
00:30:25,625 --> 00:30:27,500
but mediated by her writing.
358
00:30:27,667 --> 00:30:31,333
I wouldn't have gone up to her
if I hadn't read her books.
359
00:30:32,167 --> 00:30:35,500
That's me.
I don't just go up to women.
360
00:30:36,583 --> 00:30:38,750
It's due
to my homosexuality...
361
00:30:40,375 --> 00:30:43,083
There has to be a fictional aspect...
362
00:30:43,708 --> 00:30:47,292
mediatized
so that the woman is approachable.
363
00:30:58,042 --> 00:31:00,167
I mean, it's not...
364
00:31:00,667 --> 00:31:04,833
that she was approachable,
it's that she approached me.
365
00:31:06,083 --> 00:31:09,125
She fell in love with me
almost immediately.
366
00:31:09,292 --> 00:31:12,208
And knowing that, sensing that
367
00:31:12,375 --> 00:31:14,792
meant that I fell in love with her.
368
00:31:29,458 --> 00:31:32,750
I don't think we slept
together right away.
369
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:37,708
For 2 weeks,
I kissed her on her mouth.
370
00:31:37,875 --> 00:31:40,333
We slept in separate bedrooms.
371
00:31:43,333 --> 00:31:48,208
The relationship she wanted with me
was a female relationship.
372
00:31:48,375 --> 00:31:53,042
I mean, a woman who is in love
with a guy and wants to sleep with him.
373
00:31:53,708 --> 00:31:54,958
It really...
374
00:31:55,792 --> 00:31:57,708
stunned me.
375
00:31:58,458 --> 00:32:01,083
First,
as I'm mainly homosexual.
376
00:32:01,250 --> 00:32:03,333
I've been with women, but...
377
00:32:04,083 --> 00:32:07,458
I'm homosexual,
so I have problems with women
378
00:32:07,625 --> 00:32:10,500
in that I'd never approach a woman.
379
00:32:11,333 --> 00:32:14,083
it has to come from a woman.
380
00:32:15,833 --> 00:32:18,917
Secondly,
what overturned everything,
381
00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:22,000
everything got mixed up,
is the fiction.
382
00:32:22,917 --> 00:32:25,750
Duras and all of a sudden, the woman.
383
00:32:27,167 --> 00:32:32,000
She imposed herself, asked me to change
the register completely.
384
00:32:32,542 --> 00:32:35,625
"I'm not just a writer -
I'm also a woman."
385
00:32:37,917 --> 00:32:39,583
It was very overwhelming
386
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:43,333
to conduct the fictional relationship
I had with her
387
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:45,875
with a real relationship.
388
00:32:46,167 --> 00:32:48,417
A physical relationship.
389
00:32:50,708 --> 00:32:53,875
She was in love with me,
so I was with her.
390
00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:56,917
In love...
391
00:32:57,167 --> 00:33:02,417
When she asked you to truly consider her
as a woman, what happened for you?
392
00:33:03,875 --> 00:33:05,208
I was scared.
393
00:33:07,208 --> 00:33:09,417
You have to develop that idea.
394
00:33:10,833 --> 00:33:15,792
Were you scared of death
because it was passionate?
395
00:33:16,667 --> 00:33:19,625
Were you scared
you wouldn't be up to it?
396
00:33:24,792 --> 00:33:28,458
I'm always scared
I won't be up to it with women.
397
00:33:31,167 --> 00:33:34,542
And with Marguerite,
it was more than that.
398
00:33:34,792 --> 00:33:37,500
I felt words raining down on me.
399
00:33:38,417 --> 00:33:41,125
I was going to be carried away by her.
400
00:33:43,042 --> 00:33:48,708
As I have suicidal tendencies,
I felt this movement.
401
00:33:49,208 --> 00:33:51,958
This woman would carry me off somewhere.
402
00:33:53,042 --> 00:33:55,292
In those moments, did you...
403
00:33:56,417 --> 00:34:00,708
She plays a double role with me.
It's a caricature to say that,
404
00:34:01,792 --> 00:34:07,917
A man's role. She did the talking,
suggested everything, spoke for me.
405
00:34:09,417 --> 00:34:12,333
She gave the orders.
She was the master.
406
00:34:14,833 --> 00:34:20,083
And she wasn't satisfied for being
the master who decided for me...
407
00:34:20,625 --> 00:34:22,250
or for everyone else.
408
00:34:22,542 --> 00:34:25,125
Who created... created me.
409
00:34:28,792 --> 00:34:30,250
One day, she said:
410
00:34:30,792 --> 00:34:33,167
"I'll uncreate you
to create you."
411
00:35:01,750 --> 00:35:03,375
Originally, it was that.
412
00:35:22,042 --> 00:35:25,958
When I met Marguerite,
I was physically hung up.
413
00:35:26,375 --> 00:35:31,250
I discovered a woman
who was free with her body and said:
414
00:35:31,417 --> 00:35:33,500
"I want to fuck. Fuck me."
415
00:35:34,292 --> 00:35:40,417
I became even more hung up
because her body demanded pleasure.
416
00:35:41,167 --> 00:35:45,667
That sexual freedom,
in the broadest sense,
417
00:35:45,833 --> 00:35:47,875
she passed it on to me.
418
00:35:48,167 --> 00:35:52,500
She put me in this guy's role,
saying: "Yes, you're a guy."
419
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,708
Isn't that a fantastic recognition?
420
00:35:56,875 --> 00:36:01,208
Yes, absolutely.
"You are not a fag - you're a guy."
421
00:36:01,458 --> 00:36:04,500
What did you say? "Of course..."
422
00:36:04,667 --> 00:36:07,292
I said yes. I did...
423
00:36:11,792 --> 00:36:15,250
What I experienced
with Marguerite was huge.
424
00:36:16,250 --> 00:36:19,417
For the first time,
a woman gave herself to me,
425
00:36:20,167 --> 00:36:23,292
saying: "I'm here,
do with me what you will."
426
00:36:24,583 --> 00:36:27,958
It's very pleasurable to possess...
427
00:36:28,125 --> 00:36:32,458
to be able to dominate
someone completely.
428
00:36:34,750 --> 00:36:36,333
That's her.
429
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:42,417
And it was the first time.
430
00:36:43,083 --> 00:36:45,417
There was no question of age.
431
00:36:54,917 --> 00:36:57,417
It was such an encounter
with a woman.
432
00:36:57,583 --> 00:37:02,167
And I had this huge feeling
of being a man...
433
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:07,917
I don't think I'd ever
made love before I met her.
434
00:37:17,667 --> 00:37:20,875
I'd say I came along naively.
435
00:37:21,083 --> 00:37:24,292
I'd go so far as to say
I was an innocent virgin.
436
00:37:25,583 --> 00:37:28,625
I didn't know what a real orgasm was,
437
00:37:28,792 --> 00:37:31,875
having a body you could do
what you want with.
438
00:37:32,042 --> 00:37:34,667
It was the first time
I felt like that.
439
00:37:35,792 --> 00:37:39,083
Initially... I mean,
maybe all the time,
440
00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:44,208
it was a kind of fear or terror
to meet a woman...
441
00:37:44,583 --> 00:37:46,292
Women are scary.
442
00:38:05,458 --> 00:38:09,292
Maybe it's because I'm homosexual,
but I don't think so.
443
00:38:09,458 --> 00:38:12,292
I think all men feel this fear.
444
00:38:12,458 --> 00:38:17,625
Maybe more by homosexuals
because they feel fear more,
445
00:38:17,792 --> 00:38:23,000
but even with straights whose fear
is hidden and denied, it's still there.
446
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:26,125
There's this fear...
447
00:38:26,292 --> 00:38:29,750
What's happening to me?
No, I don't want to...
448
00:38:32,625 --> 00:38:36,208
And doing it, making love...
449
00:38:37,125 --> 00:38:41,125
bringing someone who likes it
to orgasm, to react...
450
00:38:41,292 --> 00:38:45,583
It's incredible the first time.
It was the first time for me.
451
00:38:47,333 --> 00:38:50,792
It happened in the first month.
It was unbelievable.
452
00:38:50,958 --> 00:38:53,417
All I told you
went through my head.
453
00:38:53,583 --> 00:38:57,958
All the thoughts I had about Duras,
then suddenly, I met Duras.
454
00:38:58,167 --> 00:39:00,542
A woman who reveals to me
455
00:39:00,875 --> 00:39:04,125
passion and sexuality.
456
00:39:05,708 --> 00:39:08,875
It's all mixed up in my head.
When I said terror,
457
00:39:09,042 --> 00:39:11,375
I didn't want to leave my imagination,
458
00:39:11,542 --> 00:39:15,000
I didn't want to enter
the reality of her passion.
459
00:39:22,875 --> 00:39:24,625
-Do you see?
-Yes.
460
00:39:32,250 --> 00:39:35,333
I realized that passion wasn't reality.
461
00:39:35,833 --> 00:39:41,083
It's as powerful, as fictional
as books. They overlap, see?
462
00:39:43,417 --> 00:39:45,958
So it lasted all summer?
463
00:39:46,125 --> 00:39:48,458
No, it lasted... I don't know.
464
00:39:49,458 --> 00:39:51,583
I didn't know what was happening.
465
00:39:58,083 --> 00:39:59,833
He was a very young man.
466
00:40:01,667 --> 00:40:05,542
He must be the age
you were that day on the beach.
467
00:40:06,833 --> 00:40:09,583
23, I seem to remember.
468
00:40:15,750 --> 00:40:17,708
The sea seems to be sleeping.
469
00:40:19,167 --> 00:40:20,667
There is no wind.
470
00:40:22,083 --> 00:40:23,583
There's no one.
471
00:40:25,958 --> 00:40:28,417
The sea is smooth as in winter.
472
00:40:39,042 --> 00:40:41,083
I can still see you out there.
473
00:40:43,042 --> 00:40:46,708
You used to seek out the waves,
I would cry out for fear.
474
00:40:46,875 --> 00:40:48,750
And you wouldn't hear.
475
00:40:49,792 --> 00:40:51,292
And I would cry.
476
00:40:56,583 --> 00:40:58,792
I used to think I knew everything.
477
00:40:59,708 --> 00:41:00,958
Everything.
478
00:41:01,625 --> 00:41:02,833
Yes.
479
00:41:03,917 --> 00:41:05,500
I'd foreseen everything.
480
00:41:06,375 --> 00:41:07,625
Everything.
481
00:41:08,292 --> 00:41:12,250
Everything that might happen
between you... and me.
482
00:41:13,125 --> 00:41:14,333
Yes.
483
00:41:15,917 --> 00:41:18,750
I thought I had considered everything.
484
00:41:18,917 --> 00:41:20,208
Everything.
485
00:41:20,833 --> 00:41:23,292
The pain, no.
486
00:41:24,542 --> 00:41:26,333
That's never possible.
487
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:33,542
We're getting to...
488
00:41:33,708 --> 00:41:36,667
So that you can define yourself,
I expect...
489
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,708
to the moment, the first moment,
you couldn't stand it anymore.
490
00:41:42,458 --> 00:41:44,750
Because you couldn't, at times.
491
00:41:49,292 --> 00:41:51,917
We'd been living in Trouville
492
00:41:52,083 --> 00:41:55,792
for 2 or 3 months, till November.
Just the two of us.
493
00:41:57,625 --> 00:42:01,167
It was wonderful. I didn't know
what was happening to me.
494
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:04,750
I wasn't thinking about anything.
I was...
495
00:42:05,167 --> 00:42:07,167
totally in her...
496
00:42:07,875 --> 00:42:10,167
in the passion of her. It was...
497
00:42:11,333 --> 00:42:12,625
It was crazy.
498
00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:18,583
I'd have said yes
to anything she asked of me.
499
00:42:19,708 --> 00:42:21,458
Hang on.
500
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:56,792
I think it was sheer happiness.
501
00:42:59,917 --> 00:43:03,458
I felt this love she had...
she has.
502
00:43:03,625 --> 00:43:06,167
It's silly to talk in the past.
503
00:43:06,333 --> 00:43:08,125
I was going to say that.
504
00:43:08,708 --> 00:43:12,083
It's because I always tell it
in the past tense.
505
00:43:12,250 --> 00:43:17,375
Maybe we should add the fact
that you tell it in the past tense.
506
00:43:17,542 --> 00:43:19,708
But it's still in the present.
507
00:43:19,875 --> 00:43:22,333
You should leave that in.
508
00:43:24,167 --> 00:43:28,750
Maybe you can say more about
what you brought to this relationship...
509
00:43:30,167 --> 00:43:33,417
which formed it and made it
novelistic material.
510
00:43:34,375 --> 00:43:36,750
What was your part in all that?
511
00:43:37,083 --> 00:43:40,458
Did you give the cues?
What did you do?
512
00:43:41,250 --> 00:43:43,708
What was your part
in the seduction?
513
00:43:44,292 --> 00:43:45,625
Is it...
514
00:43:46,792 --> 00:43:48,167
Is it recording?
515
00:43:48,333 --> 00:43:49,625
Yes.
516
00:43:54,125 --> 00:43:57,250
I don't know what part
I played in the seduction.
517
00:43:57,417 --> 00:44:00,583
Do you feel that you...
518
00:44:00,750 --> 00:44:03,458
that she invented your character,
519
00:44:03,625 --> 00:44:05,583
or that you really existed?
520
00:44:06,833 --> 00:44:09,667
-In a way, you existed, of course.
-Yes.
521
00:44:10,417 --> 00:44:11,958
You existed.
522
00:44:12,375 --> 00:44:15,792
Yes, I existed, but at the same time,
523
00:44:15,958 --> 00:44:18,958
I felt projected into her imagination.
524
00:44:19,125 --> 00:44:22,083
I saw myself
as the object of that passion.
525
00:44:23,125 --> 00:44:28,708
She gave me things, dressed me
in her waistcoats, pullovers, shirts.
526
00:44:29,708 --> 00:44:34,125
She changed my perfume.
She hated me seeing my friends.
527
00:44:37,458 --> 00:44:41,417
Initially, I accepted all that.
I was so happy...
528
00:44:41,583 --> 00:44:44,917
I can't call it anything else.
It was so fulfilling.
529
00:44:49,292 --> 00:44:52,583
I immediately took part
in what she was writing.
530
00:44:52,750 --> 00:44:55,417
I was integrated at once.
531
00:44:55,625 --> 00:44:58,250
I immediately typed up her texts.
532
00:44:58,417 --> 00:45:02,208
There was no break between
being together on a daily basis,
533
00:45:02,833 --> 00:45:07,167
going on walks, making love,
and her writing.
534
00:45:07,333 --> 00:45:10,125
It was immediately totally transparent.
535
00:45:11,875 --> 00:45:15,542
She offered herself to me, saying:
"This is how I am."
536
00:45:16,292 --> 00:45:18,042
"And this is how I write."
537
00:45:19,292 --> 00:45:22,917
"And this is how I write
and you accept everything."
538
00:45:24,417 --> 00:45:26,125
And I accepted everything.
539
00:45:26,792 --> 00:45:30,625
The writing, the way she was,
the way she was naked,
540
00:45:31,083 --> 00:45:33,000
the way she ate...
541
00:45:34,208 --> 00:45:38,292
walked, looked... she taught me
everything in those 2 months.
542
00:45:39,792 --> 00:45:42,042
The way she saw things...
543
00:45:42,833 --> 00:45:47,208
people, the way she wrote,
her tastes, how she ate.
544
00:45:48,333 --> 00:45:51,083
"I'm all yours,
but you must take it all."
545
00:45:51,250 --> 00:45:55,083
I don't think it's a caricature.
"You must take it all."
546
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:59,500
And I did try to take it all.
547
00:46:00,375 --> 00:46:02,222
To take part in everything,
548
00:46:02,274 --> 00:46:05,125
but after a while,
it became kind of crazy.
549
00:46:06,875 --> 00:46:11,417
For instance, if I want to wear
this shirt today, why shouldn't I?
550
00:46:12,625 --> 00:46:17,833
Later, I resisted
on a daily basis, but...
551
00:46:18,750 --> 00:46:23,708
I realized it was impossible, it was,
as she says: "Take it or leave it."
552
00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:28,208
Say: "Suddenly it bothers me
to speak in the past."
553
00:46:29,292 --> 00:46:32,500
Yes, it bothers me
to speak in the past
554
00:46:32,667 --> 00:46:36,042
because I'm still living
in the first few months.
555
00:46:36,792 --> 00:46:39,750
I'm still in that same passion,
556
00:46:39,917 --> 00:46:45,125
although I resist, because
I sometimes think it's getting too much.
557
00:46:47,083 --> 00:46:50,333
I may feel like that
for an hour a day
558
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:53,417
or for an evening with her,
even now.
559
00:46:55,042 --> 00:46:58,792
It's fantastic that it still goes on.
560
00:46:59,958 --> 00:47:05,875
But we've been talking for an hour
and I suddenly feel that...
561
00:47:06,292 --> 00:47:07,833
I'm betraying her.
562
00:47:09,708 --> 00:47:11,917
She put that in my head.
563
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:17,083
Feeling like I'm guilty all the time.
564
00:47:18,083 --> 00:47:23,042
If I talk to anyone else
or I'm away for too long, I'm guilty.
565
00:47:24,917 --> 00:47:27,667
Speaking to you now,
suddenly I think...
566
00:47:28,875 --> 00:47:30,875
"Will she like this?
567
00:47:31,375 --> 00:47:35,042
Will she be pleased?
Is it good?"
568
00:47:37,583 --> 00:47:42,208
Suddenly, I need her approval
when it's something I want to do,
569
00:47:42,417 --> 00:47:46,125
but I'm so caught up in this...
570
00:47:47,125 --> 00:47:48,500
What time is it?
571
00:47:50,625 --> 00:47:52,083
6.15 PM.
572
00:47:53,792 --> 00:47:57,250
You said you had to go down at 6.15.
573
00:47:57,417 --> 00:47:58,917
Isn't that incredible?
574
00:47:59,708 --> 00:48:01,292
Well, there we are.
575
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,000
We should stop there..
It's extraordinary!
576
00:48:05,167 --> 00:48:06,458
Crazy!
577
00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:10,208
Well, that...
578
00:48:10,875 --> 00:48:12,833
should be kept.
579
00:48:13,833 --> 00:48:15,292
I'll stop it.
580
00:51:40,458 --> 00:51:44,125
It was in Caen, so
Bitter Campari wasn't very popular.
581
00:51:47,375 --> 00:51:50,708
... but dead life.
Life recreated.
582
00:51:55,750 --> 00:51:58,000
A total failure.
583
00:51:58,917 --> 00:52:00,250
A failure...
584
00:52:03,125 --> 00:52:06,458
Because you say, "like a friend".
585
00:52:06,625 --> 00:52:07,875
No.
586
00:52:11,292 --> 00:52:13,917
"I want to fuck. Fuck me."
587
00:52:15,417 --> 00:52:16,792
I became...
588
00:52:21,125 --> 00:52:24,417
I don't think
I'd ever made love before I met her.
589
00:58:37,125 --> 00:58:38,708
-How are you?
-Ok?
590
00:58:48,917 --> 00:58:50,875
I'll put your tea there.
591
00:58:51,458 --> 00:58:52,708
Thanks.
592
00:59:00,708 --> 00:59:04,958
I thought about "Agatha" all night.
I need to talk about it.
593
00:59:05,167 --> 00:59:06,250
Ok.
594
00:59:06,417 --> 00:59:08,958
December 3, 1982.
595
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,000
I must add that...
596
00:59:12,208 --> 00:59:16,958
a few months after we met, in March
the next year, so 6 months later,
597
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,208
Marguerite put me in a film.
598
00:59:21,667 --> 00:59:23,750
She stuck me in the frame.
599
00:59:24,750 --> 00:59:27,000
I think that's important, too.
600
00:59:27,792 --> 00:59:29,583
Important for your love?
601
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:34,333
She said:
"I'll uncreate you to create you."
602
00:59:34,500 --> 00:59:36,458
That was very important, too.
603
00:59:38,167 --> 00:59:40,042
She taught me to read lines,
604
00:59:40,208 --> 00:59:43,333
detach the words,
try to talk like her.
605
00:59:44,333 --> 00:59:45,958
And to walk in films.
606
00:59:48,917 --> 00:59:51,042
But not just in films.
607
00:59:51,375 --> 00:59:54,750
This domination even concerned the body.
608
00:59:54,917 --> 00:59:57,167
Look more.
609
00:59:57,625 --> 00:59:59,625
Even longer.
610
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:04,875
No!
611
01:00:06,875 --> 01:00:08,875
I'll tell you when to go.
612
01:00:11,250 --> 01:00:15,208
Look elsewhere.
Forget about the camera.
613
01:00:15,375 --> 01:00:17,417
More... more.
614
01:00:18,042 --> 01:00:21,250
No, do it very naturally.
Look really at it.
615
01:00:21,417 --> 01:00:22,875
Look at the sea.
616
01:00:23,042 --> 01:00:24,792
Don't ever pretend.
617
01:00:25,500 --> 01:00:27,958
Never! Not even for a second.
618
01:00:32,667 --> 01:00:34,333
Go to the window.
619
01:00:35,792 --> 01:00:38,167
That's it, start your real walk.
620
01:00:38,917 --> 01:00:42,167
The camera bothers you.
Look at it again now.
621
01:00:42,792 --> 01:00:44,042
That's it.
622
01:00:45,042 --> 01:00:47,500
Good. That's beautiful.
Come to me.
623
01:00:47,667 --> 01:00:50,750
No! Only do what I tell you.
624
01:00:51,542 --> 01:00:53,750
Don't look at the sea again.
625
01:00:55,958 --> 01:00:58,167
No! Look at me.
626
01:01:04,208 --> 01:01:07,667
You are not looking at me,
you're thinking of your walk.
627
01:01:07,833 --> 01:01:09,167
Unbelievable!
628
01:01:09,333 --> 01:01:12,250
Look at me
and don't think of your walk.
629
01:01:12,417 --> 01:01:15,125
Walk properly
or I'll put you in a chair.
630
01:01:15,292 --> 01:01:17,917
Or I'll film you in a chair.
631
01:01:18,542 --> 01:01:20,792
I was her lover, not an actor.
632
01:01:22,875 --> 01:01:27,042
She couldn't stand me
having homosexual desires.
633
01:01:27,583 --> 01:01:30,708
She asked if I was homosexual.
I said yes.
634
01:01:32,583 --> 01:01:34,542
And nothing stopped us
635
01:01:35,042 --> 01:01:37,542
falling in love with each other.
636
01:01:38,167 --> 01:01:40,250
Nothing was stopped by it.
637
01:01:40,417 --> 01:01:43,333
But she saw
that if she let that gap open,
638
01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:45,750
if she didn't seal it off,
639
01:01:45,917 --> 01:01:50,833
these external homosexual desires
she couldn't control,
640
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,833
she couldn't stand it.
641
01:01:54,333 --> 01:01:59,375
She said: "Pederasty is nothing"
and "You are not homosexual"
642
01:01:59,542 --> 01:02:02,000
and "I'm all you desire".
643
01:02:03,417 --> 01:02:06,917
She immediately saw
she had to be strict about that.
644
01:02:09,917 --> 01:02:13,875
I see it as an amorous undertaking,
because it's unbearable
645
01:02:14,042 --> 01:02:16,625
when your lover has other desires.
646
01:02:16,792 --> 01:02:20,833
But I also see something more general
in how she functions.
647
01:02:21,667 --> 01:02:25,875
She's asking me
to give up all my other desires...
648
01:02:26,042 --> 01:02:27,292
Other than?
649
01:02:27,750 --> 01:02:31,750
Other than my desire for her
and her desire for me.
650
01:02:36,375 --> 01:02:41,375
I take the most obvious case of
homosexuality.
651
01:02:41,428 --> 01:02:43,860
but it came out every day
in more incidental things.
652
01:02:43,914 --> 01:02:48,122
One day, if I wanted beef,
and she wanted tomato soup,
653
01:02:48,208 --> 01:02:49,750
the beef didn't exist.
654
01:02:49,917 --> 01:02:53,125
It's a false desire.
Mine is the real desire.
655
01:02:53,292 --> 01:02:54,458
Hers?
656
01:02:54,625 --> 01:02:56,833
Yes, hers, sorry.
657
01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:01,542
Because...
658
01:03:02,667 --> 01:03:06,250
you give in on the leeks,
on the homosexuality,
659
01:03:06,417 --> 01:03:10,667
on the way you dress, walk,
your perfume, the friends you see.
660
01:03:10,833 --> 01:03:12,792
what you should say...
661
01:03:13,333 --> 01:03:16,333
After a while, you say:
"I no longer exist.
662
01:03:18,667 --> 01:03:20,625
What is me?"
663
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,792
And her answer is:
664
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,458
"You are nothing, you don't exist."
665
01:03:26,672 --> 01:03:28,243
"What do you mean, I don't exist?"
666
01:03:28,296 --> 01:03:30,213
"No, you don't exist.
667
01:03:30,792 --> 01:03:33,083
You only exist through me."
668
01:03:34,083 --> 01:03:38,417
Initially, I react: "If I want,
leeks, I don't need your approval.
669
01:03:38,583 --> 01:03:40,833
If I'm homosexual, I exist."
670
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,583
Initially, I react like that
to defend myself.
671
01:03:47,167 --> 01:03:51,208
And what happens...
What's fascinating about all that...
672
01:03:51,375 --> 01:03:56,250
That's where we go back
to her hold over me is that I give in.
673
01:03:56,958 --> 01:04:01,583
"It's true that leeks are nothing,
that homosexuality doesn't exist.
674
01:04:01,917 --> 01:04:03,875
It's true that you're right."
675
01:04:05,042 --> 01:04:06,333
And I give in.
676
01:04:15,958 --> 01:04:18,083
It even went further:
677
01:04:19,458 --> 01:04:24,167
"You don't exist. You do
because I make you exist."
678
01:04:24,875 --> 01:04:29,750
It's not completely contradictory,
because she loves me, it should be enough.
679
01:04:32,083 --> 01:04:33,417
I wait
680
01:04:33,625 --> 01:04:36,750
for her to finish
speaking, eating, writing...
681
01:04:36,925 --> 01:04:38,853
I have to be available,
682
01:04:38,915 --> 01:04:41,910
which means she puts
me in a female role.
683
01:04:43,292 --> 01:04:46,750
If I say I'll do the shopping
and choose dinner,
684
01:04:46,917 --> 01:04:50,250
even if she accepts,
whatever I do is bad.
685
01:04:50,417 --> 01:04:54,417
And indeed, I fail.
It's such a cliché.
686
01:05:04,458 --> 01:05:07,917
Mind you, I didn't have
much security, much...
687
01:05:08,375 --> 01:05:10,000
self-confidence.
688
01:05:12,375 --> 01:05:14,167
But now...
689
01:05:17,583 --> 01:05:19,542
I've completely lost it.
690
01:05:23,250 --> 01:05:25,583
In exchange for...
691
01:05:28,417 --> 01:05:30,125
a super guarantee
692
01:05:30,333 --> 01:05:33,542
which is her,
since she speaks the truth.
693
01:05:35,875 --> 01:05:39,167
She says: "That's what's true.
694
01:05:39,375 --> 01:05:44,500
No need to contest,
make distinctions, prevaricate, etc.
695
01:05:44,792 --> 01:05:46,417
What I say is true.
696
01:05:46,583 --> 01:05:49,333
You, on the other hand, can only lie.
697
01:05:49,500 --> 01:05:51,292
And you lie all the time."
698
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,417
The worst thing is,
you can't prove you're not lying.
699
01:05:56,125 --> 01:06:00,917
With Marguerite, it's clear-cut.
I'm always the one who must prove
700
01:06:01,958 --> 01:06:05,208
that I love her,
that I'm not lying.
701
01:06:06,917 --> 01:06:09,500
She doesn't have to prove anything.
702
01:06:09,667 --> 01:06:14,333
Because she has language
and she took away the language I had.
703
01:06:15,292 --> 01:06:19,500
That's part of this whole process
704
01:06:19,792 --> 01:06:23,667
I'd call passionate and...
705
01:06:24,083 --> 01:06:27,792
How can I put it?
... of total domination from A to Z.
706
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:34,083
But if you stand it
you find desire in it?
707
01:06:41,708 --> 01:06:44,125
I talk about all that to Marguerite,
708
01:06:44,292 --> 01:06:46,542
but she can't stand it.
709
01:06:46,792 --> 01:06:48,750
She takes it as an attack.
710
01:06:53,708 --> 01:06:57,333
The fundamental thing she gives me
is that she is,
711
01:06:57,875 --> 01:07:00,208
to me, truth, in a way.
712
01:07:00,500 --> 01:07:01,917
I think that's it.
713
01:07:02,125 --> 01:07:05,000
That's reassuring.
She gives me everything:
714
01:07:05,167 --> 01:07:09,167
language, love, writing...
715
01:07:10,208 --> 01:07:13,750
It's become a drug.
I can't do without it.
716
01:07:16,375 --> 01:07:19,542
When we go somewhere,
she is in the foreground,
717
01:07:19,708 --> 01:07:21,250
I'm in the background.
718
01:07:22,208 --> 01:07:24,125
And that's very comfortable.
719
01:07:24,833 --> 01:07:26,333
I don't need to talk.
720
01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:30,833
Sometimes people are kind enough
to smile at me, to talk to me,
721
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,125
but it's always on her terms.
722
01:07:36,083 --> 01:07:37,750
Do you suffer from that?
723
01:07:44,167 --> 01:07:49,375
I mean two things by that.
It's very comfortable, but...
724
01:07:49,542 --> 01:07:51,167
it's not just that.
725
01:07:53,792 --> 01:07:58,917
It no doubt fills a failing in me,
which is that...
726
01:07:59,625 --> 01:08:01,542
I have no anchor point...
727
01:08:08,917 --> 01:08:11,375
"Am I gay? Am I straight?"
728
01:08:13,625 --> 01:08:17,208
I must be faithful
to what she intends to do with me.
729
01:08:17,833 --> 01:08:19,708
I went along with that.
730
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,625
And I still do.
731
01:08:25,542 --> 01:08:28,000
But I see it's a foregone failure.
732
01:08:28,667 --> 01:08:32,708
I'll never have the perfect image
she wants to have of me.
733
01:08:34,917 --> 01:08:39,833
Sometimes I have these breakdowns
when I say to myself...
734
01:08:40,792 --> 01:08:42,750
"She'll never succeed."
735
01:08:46,458 --> 01:08:48,500
And I say to myself
736
01:08:48,667 --> 01:08:51,500
that this attempt is admirable.
737
01:08:55,875 --> 01:08:57,708
It's completely...
738
01:08:58,292 --> 01:09:00,333
excessive, completely crazy.
739
01:09:03,125 --> 01:09:07,375
And at the same time,
I think it's maybe not worth it either.
740
01:09:17,292 --> 01:09:19,292
Sometimes you left.
741
01:09:19,792 --> 01:09:23,208
You walked out, saying
it was no longer possible.
742
01:09:25,458 --> 01:09:28,167
She threw me out.
Well, it was both.
743
01:09:30,125 --> 01:09:32,250
What happened then?
744
01:09:34,583 --> 01:09:36,208
I ran away.
745
01:09:36,375 --> 01:09:41,208
The first time, it was very serious,
because there was a suicide attempt.
746
01:09:42,625 --> 01:09:46,750
If you bring that up,
you have to say a lot more.
747
01:09:50,042 --> 01:09:55,375
Self-defeating behavior
which meant that,
748
01:09:55,542 --> 01:09:57,458
to put it simply, I swallowed pills.
749
01:10:02,833 --> 01:10:04,333
It's more than that.
750
01:10:06,167 --> 01:10:07,917
Why want to die?
751
01:10:08,167 --> 01:10:11,083
I could have gone to see friends,
752
01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:15,417
had a normal attitude
of recovery, but I didn't think of that.
753
01:10:16,375 --> 01:10:20,125
It was that without her,
nothing exists anymore.
754
01:10:25,458 --> 01:10:27,458
So, I could do nothing but die.
755
01:10:28,417 --> 01:10:32,250
But you do it once -
you don't keep committing suicide!
756
01:10:36,417 --> 01:10:38,458
There was this feeling
757
01:10:38,625 --> 01:10:42,083
that I couldn't be
what she wanted me to be.
758
01:10:47,542 --> 01:10:50,208
When I couldn't stand it anymore,
I left.
759
01:10:50,667 --> 01:10:53,458
But I was just so unhappy.
760
01:11:15,833 --> 01:11:17,750
As soon as I got on the train,
761
01:11:17,917 --> 01:11:21,750
I was 10 times more anxious
than when I was with her.
762
01:11:34,625 --> 01:11:36,375
And at once, the only thing
763
01:11:36,542 --> 01:11:39,292
I could think of
was to phone her.
764
01:11:40,833 --> 01:11:42,875
And I went back.
765
01:11:50,083 --> 01:11:52,917
I knew the situation
couldn't change.
766
01:12:00,542 --> 01:12:05,458
I want to talk about that.
I haven't told anyone for 2 years.
767
01:12:07,750 --> 01:12:09,958
I know it want change anything.
768
01:12:21,958 --> 01:12:26,167
I'm opposite someone
who exists completely.
769
01:12:26,458 --> 01:12:28,500
If anyone exists...
770
01:12:29,792 --> 01:12:31,333
it's Marguerite.
771
01:12:31,500 --> 01:12:34,167
10 times more than anyone else!
772
01:12:34,667 --> 01:12:40,417
Faced with this complete existence,
there's non-existence, nothingness.
773
01:12:41,667 --> 01:12:45,917
To cushion this non-existence,
to recover something,
774
01:12:46,083 --> 01:12:48,375
I talk about all that.
775
01:12:58,958 --> 01:13:02,833
It's got so I can only read
books she's recommended.
776
01:13:03,833 --> 01:13:07,083
No point seeing a film
since "India Song" exists.
777
01:13:08,417 --> 01:13:12,958
As soon as I say
I'm going to see a film
778
01:13:13,125 --> 01:13:16,375
I destroy something, this block...
779
01:13:16,708 --> 01:13:18,750
I destroy the block of love.
780
01:13:18,917 --> 01:13:22,458
It's seen as a betrayal.
Talking about her to someone
781
01:13:22,625 --> 01:13:26,208
is seen as a betrayal,
or at least as suspicious.
782
01:13:28,625 --> 01:13:32,125
I like being in that situation,
let's be honest.
783
01:13:33,792 --> 01:13:35,917
Why did I pick Yann Lemée?
784
01:13:37,875 --> 01:13:40,292
To portray Agatha's man.
785
01:13:42,292 --> 01:13:45,583
If I hadn't met this...
786
01:13:46,708 --> 01:13:49,833
How can I put it?
... wanderer...
787
01:13:50,917 --> 01:13:54,167
This man in the grip
of modern wandering
788
01:13:54,333 --> 01:13:59,125
who came and stayed at my place,
who left his job and his apartment,
789
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:01,292
his friends,
790
01:14:01,458 --> 01:14:04,667
I probably wouldn't
have written "Agatha".
791
01:14:06,042 --> 01:14:09,792
It's funny to see
someone turn up at your place.
792
01:14:12,833 --> 01:14:15,917
He's prepared to give up
everything: his job...
793
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,375
his home...
794
01:14:21,583 --> 01:14:23,583
What can you get him to do...
795
01:14:24,750 --> 01:14:27,583
other than the role of the lover
796
01:14:28,708 --> 01:14:30,000
of Agatha?
797
01:14:38,875 --> 01:14:41,708
Nobody ever loved me like that.
798
01:14:42,083 --> 01:14:43,833
I'm sure of that.
799
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,333
I'm also sure
nobody will ever love me like that.
800
01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:49,833
Such attention that...
801
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,792
she wanted me no longer to
exist, so great was her love.
802
01:14:54,250 --> 01:14:58,333
Marguerite's intelligence is brilliant
803
01:14:58,500 --> 01:15:01,792
as it's not deliberate.
You know what she's like.
804
01:15:01,958 --> 01:15:05,292
She doesn't know what she's doing.
She regrets it.
805
01:15:11,583 --> 01:15:13,708
Where was I?
806
01:15:15,583 --> 01:15:17,875
When I talk of her love for me,
807
01:15:18,042 --> 01:15:21,500
I feel like I'm talking
about my love for her, no?
808
01:15:23,417 --> 01:15:26,500
No, because you don't talk
about your intentions,
809
01:15:26,667 --> 01:15:29,042
about wanting to take care of her.
810
01:15:39,833 --> 01:15:41,167
For example...
811
01:15:45,708 --> 01:15:47,833
When I get up in the morning...
812
01:15:48,542 --> 01:15:51,625
my first thought is her...
It's for her.
813
01:15:52,458 --> 01:15:57,292
How was her night? Is she still alive?
How is she? That kind of thing.
814
01:16:00,375 --> 01:16:02,542
And I must say it's...
815
01:16:03,583 --> 01:16:05,292
I have to say that.
816
01:16:05,917 --> 01:16:08,583
She's so adorable, so...
817
01:16:09,458 --> 01:16:12,083
so full of love that...
818
01:16:13,250 --> 01:16:15,042
I can't help but love her.
819
01:16:15,958 --> 01:16:19,083
And I can't help but desire her,
820
01:16:19,458 --> 01:16:21,208
want to kiss her.
821
01:16:24,208 --> 01:16:27,292
And I can't help but want to leave her.
822
01:16:28,208 --> 01:16:29,542
To kill her.
823
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:34,125
She invites this violence,
to be hit...
824
01:16:34,375 --> 01:16:38,333
She provokes me so much,
and God knows I'm not violent.
825
01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:41,292
I'm led to behave violently with her.
826
01:16:41,833 --> 01:16:45,458
But just as she possesses
the language, the love,
827
01:16:45,625 --> 01:16:48,542
she makes me be in love.
828
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:51,875
This physical attachment...
829
01:16:52,958 --> 01:16:56,000
wanting to kiss her, make love to her...
830
01:16:57,583 --> 01:17:00,667
The scenes are dreadful.
831
01:17:03,542 --> 01:17:06,917
What keeps coming back,
which means that it lasts
832
01:17:07,333 --> 01:17:09,583
is that I say: "I'm sick of it."
833
01:17:10,042 --> 01:17:13,708
It's impossible, terrifying,
monstrous, inhuman.
834
01:17:14,375 --> 01:17:16,375
You can't treat someone like that.
835
01:17:18,083 --> 01:17:20,500
And it comes back in waves.
836
01:17:20,667 --> 01:17:25,042
I forgive her everything.
A kind of immense forgiveness...
837
01:17:26,167 --> 01:17:28,125
I can't blame her.
838
01:17:28,417 --> 01:17:31,083
And our love lasts...
839
01:17:32,083 --> 01:17:34,917
I'll always love her, no matter what.
840
01:17:36,375 --> 01:17:40,875
For example, I can't imagine her dying.
841
01:17:41,708 --> 01:17:44,833
Maybe it's an imaginary world,
but I can't.
842
01:17:46,542 --> 01:17:48,125
And I can't see myself
843
01:17:48,292 --> 01:17:50,583
after her.
844
01:17:53,125 --> 01:17:55,708
Similarly, I can't see myself before.
845
01:17:55,875 --> 01:18:00,042
I feel like I've lived with her
for centuries, for ever.
846
01:18:00,625 --> 01:18:02,750
Maybe my life started then.
847
01:18:03,833 --> 01:18:06,708
I believe that, my life started then.
848
01:18:10,125 --> 01:18:12,583
Similarly, I can't envisage the end.
849
01:18:13,333 --> 01:18:17,083
So, I say that in the form of...
850
01:18:17,542 --> 01:18:19,542
of immortality,
851
01:18:19,708 --> 01:18:21,250
of eternity.
852
01:18:22,043 --> 01:18:23,646
But what's tragic is,
853
01:18:23,698 --> 01:18:27,375
I know it'll end,
just thinking of practicalities.
854
01:18:27,542 --> 01:18:30,250
For example, our age difference.
855
01:18:31,417 --> 01:18:34,667
I'll ask the question
I wanted to ask you earlier.
856
01:18:35,917 --> 01:18:39,333
How do you feel concerned
by "The Malady of death"?
857
01:18:44,292 --> 01:18:45,875
The proposal...
858
01:18:46,625 --> 01:18:50,500
in the text, the proposal
made to the man to love...
859
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:54,292
is exactly what Marguerite made to me.
860
01:18:55,167 --> 01:18:58,375
Did you feel afflicted by this malady?
861
01:18:58,542 --> 01:18:59,792
Yes.
862
01:19:00,958 --> 01:19:04,250
Do you think it's a
homosexual malady, too?
863
01:19:04,792 --> 01:19:06,917
Yes, I think...
864
01:19:08,208 --> 01:19:13,750
Very early on, before I met her,
when I frequented homosexuals, I thought
865
01:19:14,625 --> 01:19:17,667
that I was inside and outside.
866
01:19:17,833 --> 01:19:21,167
And I had... I've always had...
867
01:19:21,792 --> 01:19:25,000
a kind of lucidity
about the vanity of all that.
868
01:19:27,542 --> 01:19:32,000
I'd go further, I don't think
you should stop at homosexuality.
869
01:19:32,167 --> 01:19:34,500
It's not the cause of everything.
870
01:19:37,500 --> 01:19:42,000
The problem was this incredible lack
871
01:19:42,500 --> 01:19:44,000
from not loving...
872
01:19:44,917 --> 01:19:47,458
not getting outside oneself,
873
01:19:47,917 --> 01:19:49,667
not feeling love.
874
01:19:52,042 --> 01:19:55,792
That's what I experience
with Marguerite, this proposal.
875
01:19:56,208 --> 01:19:58,250
"You've never loved a woman?"
876
01:19:58,875 --> 01:20:00,417
She's speaking.
877
01:20:00,917 --> 01:20:02,125
"No, never."
878
01:20:03,167 --> 01:20:05,500
"You've never desired a woman?"
879
01:20:06,792 --> 01:20:07,917
"No,
880
01:20:08,667 --> 01:20:09,958
Never."
881
01:20:13,208 --> 01:20:14,625
"Not once?
882
01:20:15,833 --> 01:20:17,125
Not for a moment?"
883
01:20:17,958 --> 01:20:19,250
"No, never."
884
01:20:21,333 --> 01:20:22,708
"Never? Ever?"
885
01:20:23,583 --> 01:20:24,708
"Never.
886
01:20:26,208 --> 01:20:27,333
Ever."
887
01:20:29,458 --> 01:20:31,583
"What about looking at a woman?
888
01:20:34,292 --> 01:20:38,583
What about looking at a woman?
You've never looked at a woman?"
889
01:20:38,750 --> 01:20:39,917
"No.
890
01:20:40,333 --> 01:20:41,542
Never."
891
01:20:42,917 --> 01:20:44,458
"What do you look at?"
892
01:20:46,333 --> 01:20:47,583
"All the rest."
893
01:20:49,333 --> 01:20:52,083
The men in "Malady"
are homosexuals.
894
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:56,500
And...
895
01:20:57,042 --> 01:20:58,917
most people don't see that.
896
01:21:01,750 --> 01:21:04,042
It's extraordinary, but they don't.
897
01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:10,583
Did she persuade you it was a malady
or did you feel it was one?
898
01:21:11,708 --> 01:21:13,833
No, I completely felt it was...
899
01:21:15,208 --> 01:21:19,750
I wouldn't say a malady,
because the medical term is shocking.
900
01:21:20,250 --> 01:21:22,375
I'd say it's a lack.
901
01:21:24,833 --> 01:21:26,417
A lack of loving.
902
01:21:28,375 --> 01:21:29,792
I mean...
903
01:21:29,958 --> 01:21:33,792
having to possess,
to belong to someone.
904
01:21:35,417 --> 01:21:37,750
I know that's my failing.
905
01:21:38,417 --> 01:21:41,000
I became homosexual for a reason.
906
01:21:41,167 --> 01:21:45,375
My crazy failing is
having the feeling...
907
01:21:46,042 --> 01:21:47,750
of not belonging.
908
01:21:50,125 --> 01:21:52,667
Feeling almost not alive.
909
01:21:53,542 --> 01:21:55,583
Feeling...
910
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:00,750
incapable of anything.
911
01:22:02,292 --> 01:22:03,625
Of doing anything.
912
01:22:05,083 --> 01:22:06,875
Feeling a massive failure.
913
01:22:08,792 --> 01:22:12,833
And ultimately,
having no identity, in a way.
914
01:22:13,167 --> 01:22:16,375
And that's homosexuality,
to a certain extent.
915
01:22:18,375 --> 01:22:21,083
When it's experienced like I did.
916
01:22:23,958 --> 01:22:27,750
You make it up
through the group, through the codes.
917
01:22:27,917 --> 01:22:30,417
There are networks, like everywhere.
918
01:22:31,375 --> 01:22:34,500
You take comfort
in all speaking the same way,
919
01:22:35,083 --> 01:22:37,792
dressing the same,
liking the same thing.
920
01:22:39,167 --> 01:22:42,458
I don't like people saying:
"Those homosexuals"...
921
01:22:43,542 --> 01:22:45,250
I speak for myself.
922
01:22:45,417 --> 01:22:50,000
I don't claim it's necessarily
absolute misfortune...
923
01:22:50,792 --> 01:22:52,750
Do you dare tell her that?
924
01:22:53,083 --> 01:22:54,333
Huh?
925
01:22:54,500 --> 01:22:56,000
You dare tell her that?
926
01:22:56,053 --> 01:22:57,013
What?
927
01:22:57,125 --> 01:23:00,875
That it's not misfortune,
when she thinks it is?
928
01:23:01,042 --> 01:23:02,917
Yes, I do, but...
929
01:23:03,542 --> 01:23:05,292
It's impossible for her.
930
01:23:05,458 --> 01:23:07,125
She can't hear it.
931
01:23:07,333 --> 01:23:10,500
So, you don't entirely agree
with this text?
932
01:23:10,750 --> 01:23:12,667
Yew, I do.
933
01:23:12,833 --> 01:23:15,708
I agree, as far as I'm concerned.
934
01:23:16,042 --> 01:23:17,958
But it's what you think?
935
01:23:18,542 --> 01:23:20,250
It's what I think.
936
01:23:20,417 --> 01:23:22,042
For her, it's death.
937
01:23:22,208 --> 01:23:24,625
Homosexuality is absolute death.
938
01:23:25,583 --> 01:23:28,833
Yes, but I think that
as far as I'm concerned.
939
01:23:30,625 --> 01:23:34,375
I mean, I don't think it's true
for all homosexuals.
940
01:23:34,542 --> 01:23:37,458
But I think it's true for me.
941
01:23:37,958 --> 01:23:40,917
But it shouldn't be turned
into a category.
942
01:23:41,083 --> 01:23:42,708
Which she does.
943
01:23:43,208 --> 01:23:45,375
Yes, but that's how she works.
944
01:23:45,875 --> 01:23:50,208
I don't think all homosexuals
are struck by death.
945
01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:53,208
Did you see the woman?
946
01:23:54,500 --> 01:23:57,083
She says homosexuals don't see her.
947
01:23:58,250 --> 01:23:59,917
Yes, indeed.
948
01:24:01,875 --> 01:24:03,583
That's what I told you.
949
01:24:03,792 --> 01:24:07,583
I discovered what a woman's body is,
950
01:24:07,750 --> 01:24:10,250
what a woman's desire is.
951
01:24:10,750 --> 01:24:14,375
A desire for a woman,
a woman's desire for a man.
952
01:24:14,750 --> 01:24:16,667
It goes both ways.
953
01:24:17,792 --> 01:24:20,000
Is one preferable to the other?
954
01:24:20,625 --> 01:24:23,000
Yes, well, I wouldn't use that word.
955
01:24:23,167 --> 01:24:25,792
It's completely different.
956
01:24:26,417 --> 01:24:28,000
Better for you?
957
01:24:28,167 --> 01:24:31,125
Yes. Well, it's not more satisfying...
958
01:24:31,583 --> 01:24:33,167
It's another continent.
959
01:24:34,292 --> 01:24:37,958
Another relationship.
960
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:42,042
Is it such that you no longer like men?
961
01:24:45,167 --> 01:24:46,875
I don't think I like men.
962
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:49,458
You like sleeping with men?
963
01:24:49,625 --> 01:24:51,042
Hang on.
964
01:24:51,875 --> 01:24:55,750
I'm not talking about love.
I'm talking about sexuality.
965
01:24:56,667 --> 01:24:58,583
I'll make a clear distinction.
966
01:24:58,750 --> 01:25:03,667
It doesn't stop me having homosexual
desires. I told Marguerite.
967
01:25:04,042 --> 01:25:08,458
She can't stand it,
but I don't see what I can do about it.
968
01:25:08,625 --> 01:25:11,417
As for loving a man, no.
969
01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:14,625
What attracts you to men?
970
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:18,375
What attracts me is...
971
01:25:18,583 --> 01:25:20,417
men's bodies, for example.
972
01:25:23,625 --> 01:25:26,667
Maybe it's off topic, I don't know...
973
01:25:26,833 --> 01:25:29,125
We can talk about it.
Why not?
974
01:25:29,417 --> 01:25:31,250
Well, I think it's...
975
01:25:31,583 --> 01:25:33,458
not in the text.
976
01:25:33,667 --> 01:25:35,292
No, but...
977
01:25:35,458 --> 01:25:38,417
I don't know
if you want to record it or not.
978
01:25:39,625 --> 01:25:41,167
I'm a bit scared...
979
01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:43,083
Do you want to?
980
01:25:43,625 --> 01:25:44,833
Yes.
981
01:25:49,792 --> 01:25:53,792
Maybe it's a bit simplistic,
but I think that...
982
01:25:54,333 --> 01:25:57,083
a homosexual relationship
is a mirror.
983
01:25:57,250 --> 01:25:58,833
That's exactly it.
984
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:00,708
Yes, but it's death.
985
01:26:00,875 --> 01:26:02,958
Yes, it's death, but...
986
01:26:05,458 --> 01:26:07,458
It's not bad, in a way.
987
01:26:27,167 --> 01:26:31,083
There's also these
clandestine, nighttime hookups,
988
01:26:31,250 --> 01:26:34,750
the bodies you can barely see,
the ephemeral aspect.
989
01:26:40,417 --> 01:26:43,833
You met a guy for an hour or two,
it's nothing.
990
01:27:35,292 --> 01:27:40,125
Could you say more about death
in your passion for Marguerite?
991
01:27:40,583 --> 01:27:42,500
Do you talk about it a lot?
992
01:27:43,125 --> 01:27:45,500
Does one kill the other?
993
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,750
Do you have this murderous impulse?
994
01:27:50,625 --> 01:27:51,833
Yes...
995
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,083
Well, I discovered this impulse,
996
01:27:56,250 --> 01:27:59,792
the violence of killing someone
for the first time
997
01:27:59,958 --> 01:28:02,250
for her. It's her.
998
01:28:02,667 --> 01:28:05,042
Marguerite provokes this violence.
999
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:11,292
It's the first time...
1000
01:28:12,792 --> 01:28:14,458
I feel that.
1001
01:28:14,667 --> 01:28:16,708
Really, in my whole life.
1002
01:28:17,167 --> 01:28:19,667
It's never been like that with guys.
1003
01:28:20,042 --> 01:28:22,000
That wasn't at stake.
1004
01:28:22,167 --> 01:28:27,625
So, if this violence is triggered,
I think it's between man and woman.
1005
01:28:28,458 --> 01:28:32,250
My relationship
with Marguerite is heterosexual,
1006
01:28:32,417 --> 01:28:36,125
but there are homosexual aspects to it,
in a way.
1007
01:28:36,292 --> 01:28:38,875
The way she talks to me
in the feminine.
1008
01:28:40,125 --> 01:28:42,750
Yes, she talks to me
in the feminine.
1009
01:28:44,667 --> 01:28:49,042
Do you like it?
1010
01:28:49,583 --> 01:28:54,417
Yes... It annoys me after a while.
I don't see myself like that.
1011
01:28:57,125 --> 01:29:01,292
That's where my homosexual side
comes into play with Marguerite.
1012
01:29:03,250 --> 01:29:07,583
I think like I have a link that is more
than loving with Marguerite.
1013
01:29:09,958 --> 01:29:12,792
And this link is sealed
1014
01:29:12,958 --> 01:29:15,292
and will continue till death.
1015
01:29:16,583 --> 01:29:19,833
She writes it,
so she immortalizes it, in a way.
1016
01:29:20,750 --> 01:29:23,042
It's a way of making me die, too.
1017
01:29:27,250 --> 01:29:29,542
When I saw "The Atlantic Man",
1018
01:29:30,250 --> 01:29:33,375
I felt hysterical, I was trembling,
1019
01:29:33,542 --> 01:29:35,750
crying when I woke up,
1020
01:29:35,917 --> 01:29:39,375
in tears at the idea
of seeing myself on the screen,
1021
01:29:39,542 --> 01:29:42,292
seeing myself dead, I realized later.
1022
01:29:48,250 --> 01:29:49,792
She made me die
1023
01:29:50,250 --> 01:29:52,708
by filming me. That's extraordinary.
1024
01:29:52,875 --> 01:29:56,667
Her love, the object of her passion,
in a static shot...
1025
01:29:56,833 --> 01:29:59,792
I don't move,
I'm almost always in a chair.
1026
01:29:59,958 --> 01:30:03,250
She made him die - made me die!
1027
01:30:04,792 --> 01:30:09,542
And as she made me die,
she created an image of me
1028
01:30:09,708 --> 01:30:13,458
as an immortality of me
that escapes me.
1029
01:30:13,625 --> 01:30:17,833
Because I didn't recognize myself
on the screen, it wasn't me.
1030
01:30:19,917 --> 01:30:22,708
Suddenly, I had a jolt.
I fought with her.
1031
01:30:22,875 --> 01:30:26,625
I said no. I said: "You call me a fag.
Yes, I'm a fag.
1032
01:30:26,792 --> 01:30:29,667
So what? What do you say?"
1033
01:30:30,042 --> 01:30:32,125
And she said:
1034
01:30:32,542 --> 01:30:34,500
"It's absolutely horrible.
1035
01:30:34,875 --> 01:30:36,625
But I adore you."
1036
01:30:50,083 --> 01:30:51,750
It's different now.
1037
01:30:54,493 --> 01:30:55,789
I'm a homosexual,
1038
01:30:55,842 --> 01:30:58,827
I have desires for guys,
and it's easier.
1039
01:31:03,708 --> 01:31:06,875
This homosexual aspect
must fascinate her.
1040
01:31:08,708 --> 01:31:10,542
Yesterday she said to me:
1041
01:31:11,125 --> 01:31:15,458
"You should talk about all that."
The way I am. "Be specific."
1042
01:31:17,625 --> 01:31:21,208
But I need to talk about it
beforehand, to get to it.
1043
01:31:22,042 --> 01:31:25,375
I need to talk to you, to talk.
1044
01:31:27,042 --> 01:31:30,667
Did she say: "Talk about me
because you let me talk?"
1045
01:31:33,417 --> 01:31:35,958
Of course I want to talk about her.
1046
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,708
But I want to say other things, too.
1047
01:31:41,708 --> 01:31:44,708
Could you talk about her suffering?
1048
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:46,958
The suffering in passion?
1049
01:31:54,958 --> 01:31:57,708
I think that's her suffering.
1050
01:31:58,167 --> 01:31:59,750
Life all the way.
1051
01:32:00,667 --> 01:32:03,125
Experiencing everything, making love,
1052
01:32:03,292 --> 01:32:06,125
drinking herself
into a stupor all night,
1053
01:32:06,292 --> 01:32:08,708
eating till it kills her...
1054
01:32:08,875 --> 01:32:11,292
A kind of excess that is suffering.
1055
01:32:11,458 --> 01:32:14,208
We don't love each other enough.
1056
01:32:14,375 --> 01:32:18,292
It's never beautiful enough,
never great enough.
1057
01:32:18,958 --> 01:32:21,417
The keyword is "more, more".
1058
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:28,417
What surprises me is that she wrote
"The Rapture of Lol V. Stein",
1059
01:32:28,583 --> 01:32:34,167
she understands the delusion
of passion, failure, mortality...
1060
01:32:34,833 --> 01:32:38,000
yet she lives like a 15-year-old:
1061
01:32:38,875 --> 01:32:41,458
"We'll love one another for ever.
1062
01:32:42,208 --> 01:32:45,375
I'll quit everything.
I'll see nobody but you.
1063
01:32:46,750 --> 01:32:48,583
I'm completely there."
1064
01:32:50,333 --> 01:32:52,375
She totally believes it.
1065
01:32:53,042 --> 01:32:54,625
As if she were 15.
1066
01:32:55,250 --> 01:32:58,458
I feel like I'm 80, completely blasé.
1067
01:32:58,625 --> 01:33:02,250
She goes for it, she doesn't care,
she has no doubts.
1068
01:33:04,750 --> 01:33:06,917
Every day, I think she'll die.
1069
01:33:07,083 --> 01:33:09,000
She plays tricks like that:
1070
01:33:09,167 --> 01:33:11,167
''I'm dying, I'm sick."
1071
01:33:12,375 --> 01:33:15,083
The next day,
she runs around the house.
1072
01:33:15,250 --> 01:33:17,208
When she gets up, she says:
1073
01:33:17,375 --> 01:33:19,250
"Let's make beef stew."
1074
01:33:20,917 --> 01:33:24,667
And... "I adore you, let's make love."
1075
01:33:27,958 --> 01:33:30,708
A kind of fundamental innocence.
1076
01:33:34,792 --> 01:33:37,875
The great thing about her
is that she forgets.
1077
01:33:38,042 --> 01:33:41,625
She forgets her age,
past lovers, friends...
1078
01:33:41,792 --> 01:33:43,250
There's just me.
1079
01:33:48,917 --> 01:33:54,458
I'm rather reticent, she's the opposite,
she exposes herself completely.
1080
01:33:55,750 --> 01:33:57,542
She's totally present.
1081
01:33:58,167 --> 01:34:02,083
She says: "I have a body, I exist,
I'm hungry, thirsty."
1082
01:34:03,208 --> 01:34:07,375
There are no limits. That's a pretty
close definition of her.
1083
01:34:08,625 --> 01:34:12,333
She won't just be like that,
she wants it to be shared,
1084
01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:14,292
she has a sense of others.
1085
01:34:20,042 --> 01:34:24,250
Maybe I love her less than her, me.
I'm always one step behind.
1086
01:34:25,708 --> 01:34:31,125
As she's always everything
better than everyone else, and me...
1087
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:37,750
In passion, cooking, writing, her
way of looking at things and people...
1088
01:34:37,917 --> 01:34:40,333
You always feel a bit behind.
1089
01:34:42,500 --> 01:34:46,583
She wants to raise me up
to that intensity.
1090
01:34:49,292 --> 01:34:52,292
She can see that I can't do it.
1091
01:34:54,083 --> 01:34:56,917
I think that hurts a lot.
1092
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:01,833
It hurts her a lot.
1093
01:35:13,250 --> 01:35:14,500
It's over.
1094
01:35:14,750 --> 01:35:16,500
-Is it the end?
-Yes.
1095
01:35:25,042 --> 01:35:27,083
Yann, do you have an envelope?
1096
01:35:28,750 --> 01:35:30,583
Yes, I'll get you one.
1097
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,208
How's that? It's not very big.
1098
01:35:44,375 --> 01:35:46,208
Yes, it's a bit small.
1099
01:35:48,250 --> 01:35:50,083
You can find a better one.
1100
01:35:53,208 --> 01:35:54,458
Here...
1101
01:35:54,625 --> 01:35:57,875
I'd like you to keep them for now.
1102
01:35:58,375 --> 01:36:00,292
I'll get them another time.
1103
01:36:00,458 --> 01:36:02,167
-Are you sure?
-Yeah.
1104
01:36:02,625 --> 01:36:03,875
Ok...
1105
01:36:19,333 --> 01:36:20,833
Well, I'll be going.
1106
01:36:26,667 --> 01:36:29,542
Yann never got his tapes.
1107
01:36:31,125 --> 01:36:36,000
When Michèle Manceaux died,
her partner gave them to a friend.
1108
01:36:36,167 --> 01:36:42,458
Then, when Yann died, they were given
to his sister Pascale Lemée,
1109
01:36:42,625 --> 01:36:45,958
who transcribed their contents,
word by word.
1110
01:36:47,875 --> 01:36:50,958
These were the interviews
you've just seen.
1111
01:36:56,875 --> 01:36:59,375
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT DURAS