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♪ Party People
by The Math Club playing ♪
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♪
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♪ somber music ♪
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NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES:
This is The 1619 Project.
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♪
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When it comes to good company,
drinking bourbon, and talking music,
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there is no one
I would rather sit down with
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than my dear friend,
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the Pulitzer Prize-winning
cultural critic,
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Wesley Morris.
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I used to love to study
all the album covers.
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Well, that's what you would do.
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You would lay on the floor.
NIKOLE: Yep.
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- Surrounded by albums.
NIKOLE: That's right.
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Like many Black households,
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where music
was literally your soundtrack, right?
- Yes.
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It's like every experience.
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When you're cleaning on Saturday,
you have your music playing.
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Before you go to church,
you have your music playing.
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And in my household,
when my parents were arguing,
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The Big Payback was playing.
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♪ The Big Payback by James Brown playing ♪
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Wait, Nikole...
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your parents had an argument soundtrack?
NIKOLE: Well, my dad did.
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My mom really wasn't
into the argument soundtrack,
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but when The Big Payback was playing,
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we knew, "Don't go downstairs
'cause they're arguing right now."
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That's when
we would just go to the floor vent
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and pop the floor vent open
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and put our ears to it
so we could listen
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- and see what they were arguing about.
- That's deep.
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NIKOLE:
[laughing] Right?
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When we lost my father,
Milton Hannah, in 2007,
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he had little of material value
that he could pass on to me,
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except his records.
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They span
the entire spectrum of Black music:
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gospel, blues, jazz, R&B, funk,
and even a rap album or two.
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Probably my most prized possession.
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I-- I don't know how much they are valued
in terms of monetarily,
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but what I know when I play them,
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it transports me back
to a moment with my father,
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but also to a moment for our people
and the history of our people.
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I feel, clearly, all cultures
have a connection to music,
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but for Black Americans,
it just always felt different.
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How would you describe
Black America's relationship with music?
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Ugh.
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Deep,
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um, like marrow deep.
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You know, I think that one of the things
that-- that makes us us
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is-- is the music.
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NIKOLE:
Black Americans make up
13% of the population,
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yet account for an immeasurable amount
of what moves us and how we move.
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Despite the centuries-long efforts
by white Americans
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to warp, appropriate,
and steal our music,
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and despite this country's obsession
with racial categorization
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that has tried to box our creativity in,
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Black Americans have continued to create,
reshape, and transform American music.
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Decades of billboard charts
teem with soul music
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and hip-hop innovations.
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Black choreography often starts
the dance crazes that sweep TikTok.
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Decades of jams written, produced,
and performed by Black artists
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sustain parties in places
with no Black people at all.
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And this unceasing eruption of ingenuity,
invention, intuition, and improvisation
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constitutes the very core
of American culture.
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American music is Black music.
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- We're saluting
the Motown Record Corporation,
Hitsville, USA
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and the wonderful artists
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that have made it
the greatest company that it is today.
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And The Marvelous Marvelettes!
[audience applauding]
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♪ Please Mr. Postman
by The Marvelettes playing ♪
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NIKOLE:
When we think about Black music
as American music,
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we have to talk about Motown.
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♪ Ooh, Baby, Baby
by Smokey Robinson playing ♪
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Founded by Berry Gordy in 1959,
in Detroit, Michigan,
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Motown became one of the most successful
record companies in American history.
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And as a young man in Waterloo, Iowa,
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my father fell in love
with the Motown sound.
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♪ Just My Imagination
(Running Away with Me)
by The Temptations playing ♪
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It takes you to a place.
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I would sing it, but I will sound bad.
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WESLEY MORRIS:
Okay. So what is it about this song?
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What's it about Just My Imagination
that is doing it for you?
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- Right. 'Cause it's--
One, it's just so sweet.
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- WESLEY: Uh-huh.
- Right? Like the harmony
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and, like, the wistfulness.
WESLEY: Uh-huh.
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NIKOLE:
And it's like, even as a young girl,
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and you don't even know
these grown-up feelings,
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but you have your crush in school.
WESLEY: Uh-huh.
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But it's also just beautiful
and it feels so good.
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- This song is so soft to me.
NIKOLE: Yes.
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Do you know what I mean?
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And I mean, like, I mean that
in the most luscious, cashmere way.
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- That's why I like talking to you
because I'm like, "It's beautiful,"
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and you're like,
"It's like wearing cashmere in verse."
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And what's crazy,
like, my dad had every...
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every single, uh,
Temptations album that came out,
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even-- even the ones
that no one has ever heard of.
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Why The Temptations for him?
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He loved The Temptations.
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Um, he loved the harmony.
WESLEY: Mm-hmm.
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Uh, I think he loved the storytelling,
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which is why people loved The Temptations.
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The Temptations' baritone, Otis Williams,
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is the last surviving
original member of the group.
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So, first, I just have to say,
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uh, Mr. Williams, it's such an honor
to be interviewing you.
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I wanna go back and just talk a little bit
about your relationship with music.
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When did you go
from being just a regular person
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who thought it might be cool to sing,
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to actually saying,
"I'm gonna pursue this for my career"?
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When I saw the Cadillacs...
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♪ My real name is Mr. Earl ♪
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OTIS WILLIAMS:
Frankie Lymon and The Teenagers...
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- ♪ Ooh-wah, ooh-wah, ooh
Do the things that's right ♪
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OTIS WILLIAMS:
...The Royal Jokers.
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♪
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They had a big rock-and-roll show
come to the Fox Theater.
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At 14 years old,
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I'm watching 5,000 people go crazy
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over what five guys were doing
on the stage.
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So I said,
"I got to do what they're doing."
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- So I'm just imagining
14-year-old Otis in this crowd.
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I don't even know if your--
your parents knew you were there or not--
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- They came looking for me.
NIKOLE: [laughing] I figure.
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One of the first groups
launched by Otis Williams
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was Otis and the Distants,
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and they were spotted performing
at a recreation center in Detroit
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by a young Berry Gordy.
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OTIS: Smokey Robinson wrote
The Way You Do the Things You Do for us.
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So he started playing,
dam-ta-dam-ta-dan-ta,
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and we're looking at him.
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"You got a smile so bright.
Holding you so tight.
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"You could have been a..."
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"What? Oh, man, this is some hokey mess."
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But we-- we went on and performed it.
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And that was our really first big hit.
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♪ The Way You Do the Things You Do
by The Temptations playing ♪
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NIKOLE:
It wasn't that Black artists
hadn't had success before.
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But before Motown,
no Black company released records
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that consistently equaled
or bettered the top white artists
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on the pop music charts.
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You've written a lot about Motown.
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Why was Motown so significant?
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WESLEY: Well, first of all,
it was the first Black-owned company
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that was making Black music for America,
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whose artists
all of America could see at the same time
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because of television.
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Having all of America
be able to hear a sound
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that nobody had really ever heard before,
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this combination of, like,
gospel elements and the juke joint,
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you know, a band-- a rock-and-roll band.
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You know, you could hear the tambourine
and these vocal harmonies on the one hand,
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but also, you know,
these banging drums and guitars.
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And Motown was the first company
to do that
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in a way that
sort of forced white people
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to also have to look at Black people.
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NIKOLE: To me,
when you hear that early Motown sound,
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which is very, you know, happy, joyful,
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it's about love, it's puppy love,
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while, of course, really horrific things
are happening to Black people.
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What was the--
the secret to producing music
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that aesthetically still sounded Black?
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Um, it wasn't Black people
up there in white face, right?
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- And it's important to say that--
NIKOLE: But--
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- It's important to say
that it was unmistakably Black.
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- We recognized it as Black music...
- Yes.
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- ...and yet, it was also attracting
massive white audience.
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- What-- What was it?
- I mean--
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- How-- How did they manage
to do those two things at that time?
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WESLEY: I mean,
for Black people, it's really important,
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but for white people, it was eye-opening.
NIKOLE: Mmm.
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WESLEY: The idea
that you were watching Black people
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comport themselves as human beings
went against so many things
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that everybody in this country
was being told:
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Black people,
they were incapable of loving,
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they weren't worth being loved.
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And here they were with,
you know, zero stress in their voices,
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but, like, joy and pain,
singing about having their hearts broken
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or wanting
to give their heart to somebody else.
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I mean, there was no denying
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that you were watching a people
sort of argue for their humanity.
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♪
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MAN:
♪ I'm wading water to my knee ♪
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GROUP:
♪ I'm gonna pray, I'm gonna pray ♪
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MAN:
♪ Wadin' water to my knee ♪
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GROUP:
♪ I'm gonna pray 'til I die... ♪
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NIKOLE: The stars of Motown
were the descendants of enslaved people,
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women and men
who made music as they labored.
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[group continues singing]
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The basis of American popular music
began on the plantation
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where our ancestors
melded their traditions and rituals
with Christianity
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and created the sorrow songs,
otherwise known as spirituals.
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These would become
the first original American folk music.
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FREDARA HADLEY:
So in folk spirituals,
you had call and response,
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and verses could be added and changed.
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No one knew
how long a song was gonna last.
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One person could stand up
and start raising a song,
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and people would learn it as they went
and be able to participate in that way.
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00:12:15,652 --> 00:12:18,697
Generally,
there was also movement involved.
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There was percussive sort of
stomping of feet, clapping of the hands,
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and the expectation that there would be
some type of spiritual climax.
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00:12:26,914 --> 00:12:30,542
[group continues singing]
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- ♪ Sometimes I feel
like a motherless child... ♪
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NIKOLE: Although the spirituals
were influenced by European hymns,
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00:12:43,138 --> 00:12:44,973
they were fundamentally different.
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00:12:44,973 --> 00:12:48,727
And those differences can still be heard
in contemporary gospel.
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00:12:48,727 --> 00:12:53,690
- The first example that comes to mind
is A Charge to Keep I Have.
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00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:57,528
European hymnody,
the melody goes something like this:
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00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:00,572
♪ A charge to keep I have ♪
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♪ A God to glorify ♪
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♪ To serve this present age... ♪
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Something like that, right?
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Beautiful and lovely.
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And so in a Baptist church,
you would not sing it that way,
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00:13:12,125 --> 00:13:13,502
you would line it out.
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♪ A Charge to Keep I Have
by Troy Ramey playing ♪
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WESLEY:
I mean, the music was beautiful.
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It comes from this place
of-- of great pain and uncertainty,
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but also hope.
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There's a whole cultural experience
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that is fascinating and foreign
to white people.
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00:13:38,944 --> 00:13:40,904
Lot of, like, people
writing in their diaries
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about, like, experiencing
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00:13:42,948 --> 00:13:45,617
what these strange enslaved people
are doing.
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But they're drawn to it.
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00:13:47,077 --> 00:13:50,414
Despite their alleged repulsion of us,
they are drawn to this music.
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NIKOLE: White fascination
with Black music during the era of slavery
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00:13:54,585 --> 00:13:57,588
quickly translated
to an appropriation of our sound
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00:13:57,588 --> 00:13:59,673
and a gross distortion of our image
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that would repeat for decades.
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00:14:02,384 --> 00:14:06,305
- I now give you
that golden-throated meadowlark,
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00:14:06,305 --> 00:14:09,308
"Mr. Tambo" Rex Allen!
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00:14:10,392 --> 00:14:13,145
Rex Allen? That's me.
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♪ Come where my love lies dreaming... ♪
235
00:14:19,193 --> 00:14:21,528
NIKOLE: The origins of blackface
aren't really known,
236
00:14:21,528 --> 00:14:23,989
but the myth goes
that a man named Thomas Rice
237
00:14:23,989 --> 00:14:27,534
saw an older black man grooming a horse
while singing and dancing,
238
00:14:27,534 --> 00:14:28,827
and a light bulb went off.
239
00:14:30,537 --> 00:14:34,499
- He goes out on stage
and performs for a packed house of people.
240
00:14:35,834 --> 00:14:37,878
- And what--
- In blackface?
241
00:14:37,878 --> 00:14:41,548
- He paints his face black
and he sings a song
242
00:14:41,548 --> 00:14:45,677
that is essentially mentioning
this new character that he invents
243
00:14:46,303 --> 00:14:48,096
named Jim Crow.
244
00:14:48,096 --> 00:14:50,140
The original appropriation.
245
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:53,477
- ♪ Weel about and turn about
and do jis so ♪
246
00:14:53,477 --> 00:14:56,980
♪ Eb'ry time I weel about
I jump Jim Crow ♪
247
00:14:57,231 --> 00:14:59,316
WESLEY:
The original appropriation
248
00:15:00,108 --> 00:15:02,945
that isn't just responsible
for the appropriation
249
00:15:02,945 --> 00:15:04,446
you and I are talking about right now.
250
00:15:05,531 --> 00:15:07,574
It is the-- the--
251
00:15:07,574 --> 00:15:10,827
It is the reason
for the fight that we are still having
252
00:15:10,827 --> 00:15:14,373
about who can say what for whom,
253
00:15:14,373 --> 00:15:17,000
who can speak on behalf of whom,
254
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,044
who can sing whose song.
255
00:15:19,461 --> 00:15:25,300
This fight, this moral and ethical mess
that we are still in, in the 21st century,
256
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:27,135
starts in the 1830s.
257
00:15:28,178 --> 00:15:29,555
NIKOLE:
Rice's blackface performances
258
00:15:29,555 --> 00:15:32,057
were a massive hit with white audiences,
259
00:15:32,057 --> 00:15:34,977
and by the mid-1800s, blackface minstrelsy
260
00:15:34,977 --> 00:15:36,603
had become ingrained in American culture.
261
00:15:38,021 --> 00:15:42,526
- There are people who think that
this is some act of appreciation, right?
262
00:15:42,526 --> 00:15:46,154
Uh, because it's an acknowledgment
that Black people exist at all.
263
00:15:46,864 --> 00:15:50,325
But it does matter who it's for,
264
00:15:50,325 --> 00:15:54,371
who gets to craft it,
and who benefits financially from it.
265
00:15:54,872 --> 00:15:56,373
NIKOLE:
In fact, it was so popular,
266
00:15:56,373 --> 00:15:57,416
that if Black artists,
267
00:15:57,416 --> 00:16:00,460
who were rarely permitted
to perform in front of white audiences,
268
00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:02,838
wanted the chance to join the mainstream,
269
00:16:02,838 --> 00:16:05,883
they had little choice
but to embody the grotesque.
270
00:16:05,883 --> 00:16:08,093
They had to perform in blackface.
271
00:16:09,052 --> 00:16:12,723
- Be somebody.
Follow in the footsteps of great men.
272
00:16:12,723 --> 00:16:14,766
- Men like Booker T. Washington.
- That's a great man.
273
00:16:14,766 --> 00:16:15,684
That's a man...
274
00:16:15,684 --> 00:16:21,148
WESLEY:
I would say blackface minstrelsy
is the key to everything
275
00:16:21,148 --> 00:16:24,776
with respect to American popular culture,
276
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,866
with respect to the way
that white people understand,
277
00:16:30,866 --> 00:16:33,702
or think they understand Black people.
278
00:16:33,702 --> 00:16:38,457
It is responsible for some of the neuroses
that we have as a people
279
00:16:38,457 --> 00:16:41,418
in terms of how we think
we're being perceived.
280
00:16:42,336 --> 00:16:44,296
NIKOLE:
But despite its long-lasting impact,
281
00:16:44,296 --> 00:16:46,965
Black artists of the era
continued to innovate.
282
00:16:47,549 --> 00:16:49,259
And at the height of minstrelsy,
283
00:16:49,259 --> 00:16:52,804
a group of students
at the historically Black Fisk University,
284
00:16:52,804 --> 00:16:55,098
many of them newly emancipated,
285
00:16:55,098 --> 00:16:58,519
reimagined the spiritual,
creating a new musical style.
286
00:17:00,646 --> 00:17:03,649
♪
287
00:17:07,861 --> 00:17:12,783
- ♪ O, rise! Shine!
For thy light is a-coming ♪
288
00:17:12,783 --> 00:17:16,370
♪ Rise! Shine! For thy light is a-coming ♪
289
00:17:16,370 --> 00:17:20,791
♪ O, rise! Shine!
For thy light is a-coming ♪
290
00:17:20,791 --> 00:17:24,419
♪ My Lord says
He's coming by and by... ♪
291
00:17:25,379 --> 00:17:26,797
JEFFREY CASEY:
My name is Jeffrey Casey.
292
00:17:26,797 --> 00:17:29,132
I am 21 years old
from Nashville, Tennessee.
293
00:17:29,132 --> 00:17:31,260
And I'm a senior
business administration major
294
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:32,386
here at Fisk University.
295
00:17:32,386 --> 00:17:35,222
I've just had the blessing
of being a Fisk Jubilee Singer
296
00:17:35,222 --> 00:17:37,766
all four years
of my-- my collegiate career.
297
00:17:37,766 --> 00:17:40,227
♪ Steal away ♪
298
00:17:41,395 --> 00:17:44,982
♪ Steal away ♪
299
00:17:44,982 --> 00:17:49,653
♪ To Jesus ♪
300
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:54,449
- Um... probably a bit softer
at the beginning?
301
00:17:54,449 --> 00:17:55,492
Yeah.
302
00:17:55,993 --> 00:18:01,373
♪ Steal away home ♪
303
00:18:02,124 --> 00:18:04,918
♪ I ain't got long... ♪
304
00:18:04,918 --> 00:18:07,129
NIKOLE:
In 2021, The Fisk Jubilee Singers
305
00:18:07,129 --> 00:18:09,798
celebrated their 150th anniversary.
306
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:13,802
The a cappella group performs
formal arrangements of spirituals.
307
00:18:15,137 --> 00:18:17,306
- They would call it
American folk music at one time,
308
00:18:17,306 --> 00:18:21,018
and the Jubilee Singers were able
to completely incorporate
309
00:18:21,018 --> 00:18:24,605
into a more, I guess,
European, Western style of music.
310
00:18:24,605 --> 00:18:29,943
So the Negro spiritual then being infused
with European music and Western music,
311
00:18:29,943 --> 00:18:31,737
uh, to create the concert spiritual.
312
00:18:32,321 --> 00:18:35,115
♪ The Gospel train is coming ♪
313
00:18:35,115 --> 00:18:37,576
♪ I hear it just at hand ♪
314
00:18:37,576 --> 00:18:40,078
♪ I hear those car wheels moving ♪
315
00:18:40,078 --> 00:18:42,414
♪ And rumbling through the land ♪
316
00:18:42,414 --> 00:18:46,919
♪ Get on board, children
Get on board, children ♪
317
00:18:46,919 --> 00:18:48,003
♪ Get on board... ♪
318
00:18:48,003 --> 00:18:51,590
NIKOLE:
The original nine-group ensemble
was formed in 1871
319
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:54,301
as a way of trying to raise money
for the young institution.
320
00:18:55,093 --> 00:18:57,763
FREDARA: Ella Sheppard,
who was a young Black woman,
321
00:18:57,763 --> 00:19:00,390
she starts arranging these songs
322
00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:02,726
that they've been
sort of singing to themselves
323
00:19:02,726 --> 00:19:04,645
and singing among themselves.
324
00:19:04,645 --> 00:19:10,234
And it is with that canon of music
that they begin to find success.
325
00:19:11,527 --> 00:19:14,196
NIKOLE: Ella Sheppard collected
and arranged countless songs
326
00:19:14,196 --> 00:19:15,489
for the group's repertoire.
327
00:19:17,449 --> 00:19:21,036
During the starkly violent era
following the end of slavery,
328
00:19:21,036 --> 00:19:24,665
the Jubilee Singers toured the country
and even went overseas,
329
00:19:24,665 --> 00:19:27,543
drawing audiences
that included Mark Twain,
330
00:19:27,543 --> 00:19:30,546
President Ulysses S. Grant,
and Queen Victoria.
331
00:19:32,005 --> 00:19:34,633
FREDARA: And it is the music
of the Fisk Jubilee Singers
332
00:19:34,633 --> 00:19:36,426
that people hear in Europe
333
00:19:36,426 --> 00:19:41,431
and start to say, "Okay,
now America has its own classical music."
334
00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:43,684
NIKOLE:
The efforts of the Jubilee Singers
335
00:19:43,684 --> 00:19:47,020
ensured that the songs of the enslaved
would be firmly entrenched
336
00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:49,189
in the musical fabric of the country.
337
00:19:49,189 --> 00:19:55,195
♪ Swing low, sweet chariot ♪
338
00:19:55,195 --> 00:19:59,658
♪ Comin' for to carry me home... ♪
339
00:19:59,658 --> 00:20:02,202
NIKOLE:
Their version of Swing Low, Sweet Chariot,
340
00:20:02,202 --> 00:20:03,829
a traditional spiritual,
341
00:20:03,829 --> 00:20:05,956
has been recorded scores of times,
342
00:20:05,956 --> 00:20:09,251
in countless variations
by the likes of Etta James...
343
00:20:09,251 --> 00:20:12,588
♪ Swing low... ♪
344
00:20:12,588 --> 00:20:13,797
NIKOLE:
...The Staple Singers...
345
00:20:13,797 --> 00:20:17,217
♪ Sweet chariot... ♪
346
00:20:17,217 --> 00:20:18,218
NIKOLE:
...Johnny Cash...
347
00:20:18,218 --> 00:20:21,847
♪ Comin' for to carry me home... ♪
348
00:20:21,847 --> 00:20:23,056
NIKOLE:
...and Merle Haggard.
349
00:20:23,056 --> 00:20:25,726
♪ Swing low ♪
350
00:20:27,561 --> 00:20:30,981
♪ Sweet chariot ♪
351
00:20:31,481 --> 00:20:33,025
♪ ...help me ♪
352
00:20:33,025 --> 00:20:37,321
♪ Won't you help me
in the service of the Lord ♪
353
00:20:37,321 --> 00:20:41,867
♪ I'm a-rollin', I'm a-rollin' ♪
354
00:20:41,867 --> 00:20:47,873
♪ Through an unfriendly world ♪
355
00:20:50,918 --> 00:20:53,212
NIKOLE:
The Fisk Jubilee Singers share a legacy
356
00:20:53,212 --> 00:20:55,172
with other a cappella groups of the time.
357
00:20:55,172 --> 00:20:58,509
But these concert spirituals
only tell a small part of the story
358
00:20:58,509 --> 00:21:00,219
of Black music during that era.
359
00:21:00,761 --> 00:21:03,013
And many other innovations
were taking place
360
00:21:03,013 --> 00:21:04,556
outside of the concert hall.
361
00:21:05,098 --> 00:21:08,977
♪ My man's got a heart ♪
362
00:21:08,977 --> 00:21:14,983
♪ Like a rock cast in the sea... ♪
363
00:21:15,984 --> 00:21:18,779
NIKOLE: T he blues derived
from spirituals and field hollers
364
00:21:18,779 --> 00:21:21,490
used by Black men and women
picking cotton.
365
00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:25,410
Songs about love, sex,
and the harsh realities of Black life
366
00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:28,080
could be heard
in juke joints and cabarets,
367
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,958
first in the deep South,
then across the country.
368
00:21:32,501 --> 00:21:35,212
And without the blues,
we wouldn't have jazz.
369
00:21:35,212 --> 00:21:40,634
♪ West End Blues
by Louis Armstrong playing ♪
370
00:21:42,135 --> 00:21:45,639
FREDARA:
When I think about jazz
and how it comes to us,
371
00:21:45,639 --> 00:21:48,642
I wanna say
it's the sound of collective liberation,
372
00:21:48,642 --> 00:21:50,352
and I mean that in a very musical sense
373
00:21:50,352 --> 00:21:55,190
because the music that emerges
has collective improvisation.
374
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:57,442
So it is a structure
375
00:21:57,442 --> 00:22:03,448
that allows for everybody
to say what they need to say musically.
376
00:22:03,448 --> 00:22:07,035
NIKOLE: Black Americans have always
utilized improvisation in our music,
377
00:22:07,035 --> 00:22:10,247
and jazz provided the perfect platform
for that improvisation.
378
00:22:10,247 --> 00:22:13,250
♪ jazz music playing ♪
379
00:22:16,545 --> 00:22:18,922
The unrestricted expression of jazz
380
00:22:18,922 --> 00:22:23,594
created music born of feeling,
of play, of exhaustion, of hope.
381
00:22:23,594 --> 00:22:26,930
It was a space
where singers and musicians could be free.
382
00:22:28,307 --> 00:22:30,726
Jazz was born
in the heart of Black New Orleans,
383
00:22:30,726 --> 00:22:32,936
and quickly drew international adoration.
384
00:22:34,271 --> 00:22:37,024
But even as it was beloved
in London or Paris,
385
00:22:37,024 --> 00:22:39,693
that didn't mean
that love translated to America.
386
00:22:40,736 --> 00:22:43,530
- You have readings of it,
both fascination and repulsion.
387
00:22:47,868 --> 00:22:53,290
White people, uh, were concerned
that jazz was a corruptive force
388
00:22:53,290 --> 00:22:55,375
that would lead to race mixing.
389
00:22:55,375 --> 00:22:57,669
There is this
fear and this understanding
390
00:22:57,669 --> 00:23:02,758
that embracing the music
can mean literal embracing of the people,
391
00:23:02,758 --> 00:23:06,470
or just a sort of
humanistic embracing of the people,
392
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:09,848
both of which
America's not interested in at the time.
393
00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:14,686
And now Louis Armstrong and the Duke!
394
00:23:14,686 --> 00:23:15,687
Let's hear it for them!
395
00:23:15,687 --> 00:23:17,689
[audience applauding, cheering]
396
00:23:17,689 --> 00:23:20,234
NIKOLE:
Artists like Louis Armstrong
could be successful,
397
00:23:20,234 --> 00:23:22,736
but that success was limited
and conditional.
398
00:23:22,736 --> 00:23:25,739
♪
399
00:23:26,323 --> 00:23:29,493
- Very often,
Black men still have to find a way
400
00:23:29,493 --> 00:23:33,372
to make white audiences feel safe.
401
00:23:33,372 --> 00:23:36,959
- ♪ I'll be glad when you dead,
you rascal, you... ♪
402
00:23:36,959 --> 00:23:41,171
FREDARA:
For Louis Armstrong,
he is incredibly talented,
403
00:23:41,171 --> 00:23:44,967
and he's able to draw
on comedic chops to disarm.
404
00:23:44,967 --> 00:23:49,596
And so,
it makes Louis Armstrong more vulnerable
405
00:23:49,596 --> 00:23:55,185
to white audiences' projections
of these minstrel archetypes.
406
00:23:56,228 --> 00:23:58,981
NIKOLE: These depictions
of one of our country's finest artists
407
00:23:58,981 --> 00:24:01,233
made him popular with white America,
408
00:24:01,233 --> 00:24:04,152
but his reputation with Black America
proved complicated.
409
00:24:04,862 --> 00:24:06,071
By the civil rights era,
410
00:24:06,071 --> 00:24:10,033
he was no longer seen as a hero
celebrated for breaking barriers.
411
00:24:10,033 --> 00:24:14,162
Instead, a reputation as a sell-out
dogged him for the rest of his career.
412
00:24:14,955 --> 00:24:18,083
- I'm not gonna claim that
that is how Louis Armstrong saw himself.
413
00:24:18,083 --> 00:24:19,501
I don't believe it so.
414
00:24:19,501 --> 00:24:21,795
But it makes him a canvas
415
00:24:21,795 --> 00:24:27,301
onto which white audiences seamlessly
and easily see these archetypes
416
00:24:27,301 --> 00:24:31,096
that are so rampant
in American society writ large.
417
00:24:31,096 --> 00:24:33,765
♪ ...never, never go away ♪
418
00:24:33,765 --> 00:24:37,227
♪ Dolly'll never go away again ♪
419
00:24:37,227 --> 00:24:40,981
[audience laughing, applauding]
420
00:24:44,151 --> 00:24:49,865
- And so you argue that Motown
was the antidote to minstrelsy.
421
00:24:49,865 --> 00:24:51,200
Because it was.
422
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,202
Berry Gordy's timing was perfect.
NIKOLE: Mmm.
423
00:24:53,785 --> 00:24:55,412
WESLEY:
He started this company
424
00:24:55,412 --> 00:24:58,373
when there were cameras
to put these Black people in front of.
425
00:24:59,082 --> 00:25:02,503
And so, the thing about minstrelsy
426
00:25:02,503 --> 00:25:06,131
was what it managed to do
to the Black image.
427
00:25:07,049 --> 00:25:12,763
The idea that white people got
to tell this country who Black people were
428
00:25:12,763 --> 00:25:16,975
before Black people even had
the right to perform in their own name
429
00:25:17,726 --> 00:25:19,561
is what got us into this mess.
430
00:25:21,230 --> 00:25:24,525
NIKOLE:
And even as Motown chipped away
at the legacy of minstrelsy
431
00:25:24,525 --> 00:25:27,861
and white audiences
seemingly accepted Black performers,
432
00:25:27,861 --> 00:25:30,280
those performers
still suffered the indignities
433
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,367
of the country's deeply entrenched
racial caste system.
434
00:25:35,994 --> 00:25:39,081
- You being a Southern young man yourself...
- Right.
435
00:25:39,081 --> 00:25:41,792
NIKOLE: ...white people are paying
to hear you perform,
436
00:25:41,792 --> 00:25:46,338
and yet, treating Black people poorly
outside of the arena.
437
00:25:46,338 --> 00:25:48,924
- Did that-- Did that bother you?
- It hurts. Oh, sure, it hurts.
438
00:25:51,051 --> 00:25:52,219
Oh, yeah, no question.
439
00:25:52,719 --> 00:25:57,516
- What was it like to be making
the type of music you were making
440
00:25:57,516 --> 00:26:01,395
when the country was really
in a period, almost, of revolution?
441
00:26:01,395 --> 00:26:05,649
- We were like a soothing ointment
to the troubled soul.
442
00:26:06,817 --> 00:26:08,402
That music is powerful.
443
00:26:08,986 --> 00:26:11,280
Even though all that
was happening around us,
444
00:26:11,947 --> 00:26:17,494
we did not lose the faith and the ability
and the steadfastness to keep it going on.
445
00:26:19,413 --> 00:26:21,874
NIKOLE:
But while some Motown artists
sang to soothe us,
446
00:26:21,874 --> 00:26:25,294
others, both inside and outside
the machine that Berry Gordy built,
447
00:26:25,294 --> 00:26:27,296
spoke directly
to the struggle of the times.
448
00:26:28,005 --> 00:26:31,258
They simply couldn't ignore
the reality of the world around them.
449
00:26:37,306 --> 00:26:40,309
[siren wailing]
450
00:26:41,935 --> 00:26:44,021
There was a lot of unrest in America.
451
00:26:44,605 --> 00:26:47,316
There were college kids
being shot on campuses.
452
00:26:47,316 --> 00:26:48,775
My brother was at war,
453
00:26:49,651 --> 00:26:52,905
and I prayed a lot
that he would come through safely.
454
00:26:54,740 --> 00:26:58,076
NIKOLE:
Just as the respectability politics
of the Civil Rights Movement
455
00:26:58,076 --> 00:27:00,245
was giving way to a new militancy,
456
00:27:00,245 --> 00:27:01,705
by the early '70s,
457
00:27:01,705 --> 00:27:04,291
the buttoned-up machine
that Berry Gordy created
458
00:27:04,291 --> 00:27:06,627
was colliding
with the turmoil of the times.
459
00:27:07,878 --> 00:27:11,757
There were artists
who didn't like being boxed in,
460
00:27:11,757 --> 00:27:14,510
uh, and not being able
to speak to the time.
461
00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:17,012
All hail the Mr. Gaye!
462
00:27:18,514 --> 00:27:20,557
♪ Brother, brother, brother ♪
463
00:27:21,767 --> 00:27:25,229
♪ There's far too many of you dying... ♪
464
00:27:25,229 --> 00:27:26,855
He was responding to the war.
465
00:27:26,855 --> 00:27:27,814
He was responding
466
00:27:27,814 --> 00:27:32,819
to what we would now call
the environmental consciousness movement.
467
00:27:32,819 --> 00:27:35,822
And he was talking about racism
and poverty in the United States.
468
00:27:35,822 --> 00:27:39,201
And nobody
in-- in-- in American popular music,
469
00:27:39,201 --> 00:27:42,079
at his level,
was doing anything like that.
470
00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:44,748
And it just changed everything.
471
00:27:45,666 --> 00:27:48,085
NIKOLE: Other Motown artists
would catch up to Marvin.
472
00:27:48,085 --> 00:27:51,171
Stevie Wonder and The Temptations
both released records
473
00:27:51,171 --> 00:27:52,589
that reflected the times.
474
00:27:54,508 --> 00:27:57,678
But as those musicians worked
from inside the Motown machine,
475
00:27:57,678 --> 00:27:59,096
artists like George Clinton...
476
00:27:59,096 --> 00:28:01,014
♪ We Want the Funk
by George Clinton playing ♪
477
00:28:01,014 --> 00:28:02,558
...Sly & The Family Stone...
478
00:28:02,558 --> 00:28:05,811
♪ Thank You
by Sly & The Family Stone ♪
479
00:28:05,811 --> 00:28:06,812
...James Brown...
480
00:28:06,812 --> 00:28:10,023
♪ Papa's Got A Brand New Bag
by James Brown playing ♪
481
00:28:10,023 --> 00:28:11,149
...and Betty Davis...
482
00:28:11,149 --> 00:28:14,695
♪ Steppin' In Her I. Miller Shoes
by Betty Davis playing ♪
483
00:28:14,695 --> 00:28:18,115
...sparked a revolution
that spawned a whole new style of music
484
00:28:18,115 --> 00:28:21,952
that was sexy, rebellious,
and politically unafraid.
485
00:28:21,952 --> 00:28:26,832
♪ Give Up the Funk
by Parliament playing ♪
486
00:28:26,832 --> 00:28:28,208
My dad loved funk,
487
00:28:28,208 --> 00:28:31,253
and his album collection
is a musical journey through the genre.
488
00:28:31,837 --> 00:28:35,382
With its strong bass lines,
steady, infectious drum beats,
489
00:28:35,382 --> 00:28:38,385
psychedelic guitar riffs,
and political critique,
490
00:28:38,385 --> 00:28:41,471
funk is a groove,
a looseness, a freedom.
491
00:28:42,472 --> 00:28:44,600
In many ways, funk was a rebellion
492
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,394
against the broken promises
of the civil rights era.
493
00:28:48,187 --> 00:28:50,105
There was all this hope
494
00:28:50,105 --> 00:28:54,651
and then by '68, it was like,
"Okay, well, this-- this--this is over.
495
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,862
"We're not doing this anymore.
496
00:28:56,862 --> 00:28:58,113
Or we can't do it."
497
00:28:58,113 --> 00:29:04,036
- Once again, Black music is reflecting
what is happening on the ground.
498
00:29:04,036 --> 00:29:07,039
So the Black power movement
is also coming out of saying,
499
00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,250
"We're going to abandon
these respectability politics.
500
00:29:10,250 --> 00:29:11,919
"We're not going to dress like that.
501
00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:14,505
"We're not gonna try
to talk about integration
502
00:29:14,505 --> 00:29:15,589
"and appeasing white folks
503
00:29:15,589 --> 00:29:17,174
because that didn't work."
WESLEY: Mm-hmm.
504
00:29:17,174 --> 00:29:19,510
- And that's also
what's happening musically.
505
00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:22,763
To me, when I hear funk, I hear freedom.
506
00:29:22,763 --> 00:29:24,348
♪ Say it loud ♪
507
00:29:24,348 --> 00:29:25,599
♪ I'm Black and I'm proud ♪
508
00:29:26,892 --> 00:29:28,352
♪ Say it loud... ♪
509
00:29:30,312 --> 00:29:31,980
NILE RODGERS:
Funk was life-giving.
510
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:34,483
It was something that I worshiped.
511
00:29:35,108 --> 00:29:37,444
It allowed me to express myself.
512
00:29:37,444 --> 00:29:41,198
It allowed me to feel
others express themselves
513
00:29:41,198 --> 00:29:44,826
in a way that other forms of R&B didn't.
514
00:29:44,826 --> 00:29:48,205
♪
515
00:29:48,205 --> 00:29:52,000
NIKOLE: Nile Rodgers--
producer, songwriter, innovator.
516
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,503
Whether you know it or not,
there's a strong chance
517
00:29:54,503 --> 00:29:57,256
Nile is the driving force
behind a song that you love.
518
00:29:58,006 --> 00:29:59,091
I'm Coming Out...
519
00:29:59,091 --> 00:30:01,260
♪ I'm coming out... ♪
520
00:30:01,260 --> 00:30:02,219
NIKOLE:
We Are Family...
521
00:30:02,219 --> 00:30:03,595
♪ We are family... ♪
522
00:30:03,595 --> 00:30:04,805
NIKOLE:
Notorious...
523
00:30:04,805 --> 00:30:07,015
- ♪ No-No-Notorious... ♪
524
00:30:08,267 --> 00:30:12,980
- ♪ You can be all the things
you've always wanted to be ♪
525
00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:15,148
♪ Just let it shine through... ♪
526
00:30:15,148 --> 00:30:18,318
NIKOLE:
And yes, even Soul Glo
from Coming to America.
527
00:30:22,364 --> 00:30:23,949
♪ Good times... ♪
528
00:30:23,949 --> 00:30:25,909
NIKOLE:
His career spans six decades
529
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:27,995
and countless genres of music.
530
00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:29,788
but his earliest success
531
00:30:29,788 --> 00:30:33,709
is due to the innovation
he and collaborator Bernard Edwards
532
00:30:33,709 --> 00:30:36,920
brought to dance and disco music
through their band Chic.
533
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:41,133
♪ Good times... ♪
534
00:30:41,133 --> 00:30:43,635
NIKOLE:
Thank you so much for taking the time out.
535
00:30:43,635 --> 00:30:46,305
It-- It truly is an honor to meet you.
536
00:30:46,305 --> 00:30:49,892
So when I think about
the era of funk and disco,
537
00:30:49,892 --> 00:30:53,478
it doesn't seem like
you can divorce the rebellion in the music
538
00:30:53,478 --> 00:30:55,272
from the rebellion in the times.
539
00:30:55,272 --> 00:30:59,610
What was it like to--
to be in that musical moment at that time?
540
00:30:59,610 --> 00:31:03,822
So I was a subsection leader
541
00:31:03,822 --> 00:31:08,285
in, uh, lower Manhattan section
of the Black Panther Party.
542
00:31:08,869 --> 00:31:13,665
When I started to make disco music,
as we call it, dance music,
543
00:31:14,666 --> 00:31:18,795
it was the first time
that I was able to organize
544
00:31:19,963 --> 00:31:23,217
more effectively
than I could do in the Party.
545
00:31:23,217 --> 00:31:23,967
Hmm.
546
00:31:23,967 --> 00:31:25,761
I wrote this song, Everybody Dance,
547
00:31:25,761 --> 00:31:27,679
the first song I ever wrote for Chic.
548
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:30,516
And I went to a club
549
00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:33,810
and I saw all of these people
that were disparate people,
550
00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:38,941
Black, Puerto Rican, gay,
straight, the-- the whole nine,
551
00:31:38,941 --> 00:31:41,735
and they all seemed to get along.
552
00:31:41,735 --> 00:31:42,861
They were, like, tight.
553
00:31:42,861 --> 00:31:46,448
And I was like, "Wait a minute.
Th-- Th-- This doesn't make sense."
554
00:31:46,448 --> 00:31:48,408
I was a better organizer.
555
00:31:48,408 --> 00:31:51,161
I could get people on the dance floor
556
00:31:51,161 --> 00:31:53,288
- from every walk of life.
- Wow.
557
00:31:53,288 --> 00:31:56,708
- And I just write, "Everybody dance,
do-do-do-do, clap your hands."
558
00:31:56,708 --> 00:32:00,003
- ♪ Everybody dance, do-do-do ♪
559
00:32:00,003 --> 00:32:03,090
♪ Clap your hands, clap your hands... ♪
560
00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:05,175
NIKOLE:
The Chic mystique continued to grow,
561
00:32:05,175 --> 00:32:08,804
and even caught the attention
of the one-and-only Grace Jones.
562
00:32:10,722 --> 00:32:12,891
When she heard Everybody Dance,
563
00:32:12,891 --> 00:32:14,935
she was eager
to meet Nile and Bernard,
564
00:32:14,935 --> 00:32:18,856
so she invited them to see her
at the world-famous Studio 54 club
565
00:32:18,856 --> 00:32:21,316
on New Year's Eve of 1977.
566
00:32:21,316 --> 00:32:24,736
NILE: This was the first time
a superstar called us on the phone.
567
00:32:24,736 --> 00:32:27,823
Grace Jones has a very distinctive voice.
568
00:32:27,823 --> 00:32:31,368
I always say this, and this
is with complete love and affection,
569
00:32:31,368 --> 00:32:33,412
but when we first heard it,
570
00:32:33,412 --> 00:32:36,415
she sounded like a cross
between Marlene Dietrich,
571
00:32:36,415 --> 00:32:38,292
Bela Lugosi,
572
00:32:38,292 --> 00:32:40,210
and Bob Marley to our ears,
573
00:32:40,210 --> 00:32:41,378
'cause she goes...
574
00:32:41,378 --> 00:32:43,547
[imitating Grace Jones]
"So, darling, what I want you to do
575
00:32:43,547 --> 00:32:45,090
is I want you to come to the back."
576
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:47,050
I mean, that's what
it sounded like to me, you know?
577
00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:48,677
"To the back door of Studio 54
578
00:32:48,677 --> 00:32:51,638
and tell 'em you're personal friends
off Miss Grace Jones."
579
00:32:51,638 --> 00:32:53,098
I thought we had to imitate her
580
00:32:53,098 --> 00:32:56,393
because it was so hard
to get into Studio 54.
581
00:32:57,144 --> 00:32:59,062
You couldn't just walk up to the door
582
00:32:59,062 --> 00:33:00,981
and say, "Yo, I'm--"
You know, whatever.
583
00:33:00,981 --> 00:33:03,442
So we knocked on the back door
and we says...
584
00:33:03,442 --> 00:33:06,862
[imitating Grace Jones]
"Hello, we are personal friends
of Miss Grace Jones."
585
00:33:07,404 --> 00:33:09,448
And the guy slams the door in our face
586
00:33:09,448 --> 00:33:12,159
and goes, "Aw, fuck off!"
[Nikole chuckling]
587
00:33:13,285 --> 00:33:16,246
NIKOLE:
Deflated, Nile and Bernard
grabbed a bottle of champagne
588
00:33:16,246 --> 00:33:18,248
and headed back to his apartment nearby.
589
00:33:18,999 --> 00:33:20,584
NILE:
So I just picked up my guitar
590
00:33:20,584 --> 00:33:24,379
and started singing the last words
that I remember this guy saying.
591
00:33:24,379 --> 00:33:25,380
So I started going...
592
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:26,924
♪ Ah, fuck off ♪
593
00:33:26,924 --> 00:33:28,258
[humming]
594
00:33:28,258 --> 00:33:30,302
♪ Fuck Studio 54 ♪
595
00:33:30,302 --> 00:33:31,303
♪ Fuck off ♪
596
00:33:31,303 --> 00:33:33,722
[humming]
597
00:33:33,722 --> 00:33:34,973
♪ Aw, fuck off ♪
598
00:33:35,724 --> 00:33:39,019
And Bernard,
my partner and bass player, said,
599
00:33:39,019 --> 00:33:42,105
after we had been jamming on this thing
for 20, 30 minutes,
600
00:33:42,105 --> 00:33:43,815
he says, "We gotta make this work."
601
00:33:43,815 --> 00:33:48,570
- ...this thing on the soul train,
it's called Le Freak.
602
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:51,823
NIKOLE:
And they made it work
and work and work.
603
00:33:51,823 --> 00:33:53,575
♪ Ah, freak out! ♪
604
00:33:54,493 --> 00:33:56,537
♪ Le freak, c'est chic ♪
605
00:33:56,537 --> 00:33:57,579
♪ Freak out! ♪
606
00:33:57,579 --> 00:34:02,251
- It's the biggest-selling single
in the history of Atlantic Records,
607
00:34:02,251 --> 00:34:03,460
even to this day.
608
00:34:04,044 --> 00:34:07,339
No one has sold more singles than,
"Ah, freak out."
609
00:34:07,339 --> 00:34:08,715
♪ Ah, freak out! ♪
610
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,301
NIKOLE:
By 1979,
611
00:34:11,301 --> 00:34:14,972
the freedom and togetherness
that disco and funky dance music created
612
00:34:14,972 --> 00:34:16,807
had inspired a backlash.
613
00:34:16,807 --> 00:34:20,602
And the growing fear of
an integrated America that disco evoked
614
00:34:20,602 --> 00:34:22,521
revealed itself one summer night.
615
00:34:24,398 --> 00:34:26,984
ANNOUNCER:
Between games of tonight's doubleheader,
616
00:34:26,984 --> 00:34:30,904
a local disc jockey
blew up disco records in centerfield.
617
00:34:31,864 --> 00:34:33,323
NIKOLE:
A white radio DJ
618
00:34:33,323 --> 00:34:36,076
who felt his station
had been overtaken by disco
619
00:34:36,076 --> 00:34:40,664
called on rock enthusiasts,
more than 40,000 predominantly white men,
620
00:34:40,664 --> 00:34:43,709
to blow up disco records
on the White Sox field.
621
00:34:43,709 --> 00:34:47,838
ANNOUNCER:
Steve Dahl, the self-proclaimed leader
of the so-called Anti-Disco Army,
622
00:34:47,838 --> 00:34:50,716
proceeded with the featured event:
The Disco Demolition.
623
00:34:52,134 --> 00:34:53,886
And this is how I do it.
624
00:34:53,886 --> 00:34:57,806
And then, I just--
[smashing records]
625
00:34:57,806 --> 00:34:59,224
Oh, that felt good.
626
00:34:59,224 --> 00:35:01,310
ANNOUNCER:
...anti-disco slogan followed. Soon...
627
00:35:01,310 --> 00:35:03,770
NILE:
When the whole
"disco sucks" thing happened,
628
00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:05,355
we didn't quite understand it
629
00:35:05,355 --> 00:35:08,066
because we actually just thought
it was some kind of joke
630
00:35:08,066 --> 00:35:11,403
that would, you know, just pass over.
631
00:35:12,446 --> 00:35:13,947
NIKOLE: What do you think
was at the heart of that?
632
00:35:14,615 --> 00:35:16,408
Racism,
633
00:35:16,408 --> 00:35:17,951
classism,
634
00:35:17,951 --> 00:35:20,704
people who felt like
635
00:35:20,704 --> 00:35:24,750
somehow their exalted position
636
00:35:24,750 --> 00:35:28,504
had somehow been
snatched out from under them.
637
00:35:30,672 --> 00:35:34,009
We had two
number-one pop records that year.
638
00:35:34,009 --> 00:35:37,179
For a Black group
that wasn't The Jackson 5,
639
00:35:37,179 --> 00:35:42,601
to have two number-one pop records
in the same calendar year was incredible.
640
00:35:42,601 --> 00:35:43,519
But guess what?
641
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:46,021
We never had
another hit record ever again.
642
00:35:46,021 --> 00:35:48,357
People didn't answer the phone.
643
00:35:49,024 --> 00:35:50,692
Nobody, uh...
644
00:35:52,903 --> 00:35:54,821
It was-- It was horrible.
645
00:35:54,821 --> 00:35:59,034
And I had six failures in a row
646
00:35:59,034 --> 00:36:02,079
until I met this guy, David Bowie.
647
00:36:02,663 --> 00:36:05,666
♪ Let's Dance by David Bowie playing ♪
648
00:36:07,459 --> 00:36:09,711
I did this record called Let's Dance,
649
00:36:09,711 --> 00:36:12,214
wound up being
David Bowie's biggest album.
650
00:36:12,214 --> 00:36:14,758
Changed his life forever.
651
00:36:14,758 --> 00:36:16,426
Changed my life forever.
652
00:36:16,927 --> 00:36:18,428
♪ Let's dance ♪
653
00:36:19,638 --> 00:36:23,976
♪ Put on your red shoes
and dance the blues... ♪
654
00:36:23,976 --> 00:36:26,103
- After that,
every record I did was a hit.
655
00:36:26,854 --> 00:36:29,940
- Thompson Twins and Nile Rodgers,
the man who made my record...
656
00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:31,942
[audience cheering]
657
00:36:32,901 --> 00:36:34,611
NILE:
I did Duran Duran.
658
00:36:34,611 --> 00:36:36,655
I did INXS. I did Madonna.
659
00:36:36,655 --> 00:36:38,240
I did another Duran Duran.
660
00:36:39,116 --> 00:36:41,994
♪ You must be my lucky star ♪
661
00:36:42,661 --> 00:36:44,746
NIKOLE:
The first time I heard Lucky Star,
662
00:36:44,746 --> 00:36:46,290
I thought it was a Black woman.
663
00:36:46,290 --> 00:36:48,417
- It sounded like Black music to me.
- Yeah.
664
00:36:48,417 --> 00:36:51,003
- The music you were making
with those artists,
665
00:36:51,003 --> 00:36:53,130
like, do you consider
that sound to be Black?
666
00:36:53,130 --> 00:36:54,506
Absolutely.
667
00:36:57,426 --> 00:36:59,720
NIKOLE:
With all of his post-disco success,
668
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,514
it's clear that the industry
and the American public
669
00:37:02,514 --> 00:37:04,516
were still in love with Nile's music,
670
00:37:04,516 --> 00:37:06,185
but seemingly much more
671
00:37:06,185 --> 00:37:08,312
when it was filtered
through white artists.
672
00:37:08,312 --> 00:37:11,231
- It just reinforced
what I had always known,
673
00:37:11,732 --> 00:37:13,984
that my life...
674
00:37:14,484 --> 00:37:15,485
was not...
675
00:37:16,236 --> 00:37:18,822
really... my own.
676
00:37:18,822 --> 00:37:20,324
I couldn't really do...
677
00:37:22,075 --> 00:37:23,702
what I naturally,
678
00:37:23,702 --> 00:37:25,204
and that's an important word,
679
00:37:25,204 --> 00:37:27,206
what I naturally wanted to do.
680
00:37:27,206 --> 00:37:30,751
I wound up doing what I like doing,
681
00:37:30,751 --> 00:37:32,544
but if I had my choice,
682
00:37:32,544 --> 00:37:34,713
hell, I'd make
whatever record I wanted to make.
683
00:37:36,006 --> 00:37:39,843
- Your list of collaborators, musically,
don't have a lot in common except for you.
684
00:37:40,594 --> 00:37:42,513
♪ I'm up all night to get some ♪
685
00:37:42,513 --> 00:37:44,431
♪ She's up all night for good fun... ♪
686
00:37:45,682 --> 00:37:46,725
NIKOLE:
What do you think that says
687
00:37:46,725 --> 00:37:49,603
about the lasting influence
of funk and disco,
688
00:37:49,603 --> 00:37:52,814
and its imprint even on music
that's being made today?
689
00:37:54,233 --> 00:37:58,612
NILE:
It's not that disco is somehow
690
00:37:58,612 --> 00:38:00,697
more special than anything else.
691
00:38:00,697 --> 00:38:03,450
But I do think that the one thing it did
692
00:38:03,450 --> 00:38:08,163
is that it absolutely was a catalyst
for bringing people together.
693
00:38:08,163 --> 00:38:11,416
And that's why you see
hip-hop being so strong,
694
00:38:11,416 --> 00:38:13,377
because no matter what people say,
695
00:38:14,044 --> 00:38:17,840
the reason why hip-hop is so big
is because white people love it too.
696
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,969
You can't have a big hit record
unless everybody buys it.
697
00:38:21,969 --> 00:38:24,972
♪
698
00:38:37,484 --> 00:38:40,487
♪
699
00:38:43,532 --> 00:38:45,784
NIKOLE:
It's hard to imagine American music,
700
00:38:45,784 --> 00:38:48,203
Black music, without hip-hop.
701
00:38:48,203 --> 00:38:51,123
The culture and its music
has shifted, changed,
702
00:38:51,123 --> 00:38:54,251
and remixed American pop culture
several times over.
703
00:38:55,252 --> 00:38:59,381
At its essence, rap is an innovation
based on all that has come before.
704
00:39:01,592 --> 00:39:03,969
And given his place in American music,
705
00:39:03,969 --> 00:39:06,680
it shouldn't be a surprise
that Nile Rodgers had a hand
706
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,765
in shaping the early days of hip-hop.
707
00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:12,519
We were producing Debbie Harry,
708
00:39:12,519 --> 00:39:14,646
who was the lead singer
of the group Blondie.
709
00:39:14,646 --> 00:39:16,940
So one day Debbie Harry said to me,
710
00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:20,277
"Hey, Nile,
I wanna take you to a hip-hop."
711
00:39:20,277 --> 00:39:23,113
So she drives me to this playground.
712
00:39:23,113 --> 00:39:26,491
So there was a whole line of MCs, right?
713
00:39:26,491 --> 00:39:31,079
Just standing there to wait their turn
to spit their rhyme over Good Times.
714
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:34,208
So I was, like, going,
"Oh, I-- I understand that. Okay."
715
00:39:34,208 --> 00:39:37,127
I felt honored
that they felt Good Times was hip
716
00:39:37,127 --> 00:39:39,004
and that everybody was--
717
00:39:39,004 --> 00:39:41,507
they had a-- a rhyme worked out
to Good Times.
718
00:39:42,090 --> 00:39:43,800
NIKOLE:
A while later, Nile found himself
719
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,720
at one of his favorite New York clubs,
Leviticus.
720
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:49,681
And when he once again heard
people rapping over Good Times,
721
00:39:49,681 --> 00:39:53,352
he thought it was live,
but he soon discovered it was a recording.
722
00:39:54,269 --> 00:39:57,022
NILE: I look at the record,
I don't see my name on it anywhere.
723
00:39:57,022 --> 00:40:01,276
I'm like, "What? You can't do that!
That's copyright infringement.
724
00:40:01,276 --> 00:40:02,778
You cannot do that."
725
00:40:02,778 --> 00:40:04,321
NIKOLE:
Eventually, Nile made an agreement
726
00:40:04,321 --> 00:40:06,782
with Sugar Hill Records to use the track,
727
00:40:06,782 --> 00:40:08,867
and the rest is hip-hop history.
728
00:40:08,867 --> 00:40:11,870
♪ Rapper's Delight
by The Sugarhill Gang playing ♪
729
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,249
Rapper's Delight
isn't the first rap song,
730
00:40:15,249 --> 00:40:18,418
but it's widely considered
the first big commercial release.
731
00:40:20,504 --> 00:40:22,548
Since then, nearly every era of hip-hop
732
00:40:22,548 --> 00:40:26,468
has had a connection to the iterations
of Black music that came before it:
733
00:40:26,468 --> 00:40:31,139
jazz, soul, R&B,
but especially funk and disco.
734
00:40:31,723 --> 00:40:35,060
♪ She's a very kinky girl ♪
735
00:40:35,060 --> 00:40:37,563
♪ The kind
you don't take home to mother ♪
736
00:40:37,563 --> 00:40:39,481
♪ My, my, my, my ♪
737
00:40:39,481 --> 00:40:41,316
♪ Music hits me so hard ♪
738
00:40:41,316 --> 00:40:43,110
♪ Makes me say, "Oh, my Lord"... ♪
739
00:40:44,570 --> 00:40:47,155
FREDARA:
I think part of the reason disco and funk
740
00:40:47,155 --> 00:40:50,242
are so instrumental to creating hip-hop--
741
00:40:50,242 --> 00:40:52,119
'Cause that was all dance music.
742
00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:54,371
So hip-hop as a genre
743
00:40:54,371 --> 00:40:58,584
is yet another iteration
of a Black social music,
744
00:40:58,584 --> 00:40:59,793
a dance music.
745
00:40:59,793 --> 00:41:02,796
♪
746
00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:12,848
NIKOLE:
Most parents in the South Bronx
747
00:41:12,848 --> 00:41:15,350
couldn't afford
to get their kids instruments,
748
00:41:15,350 --> 00:41:17,811
but what those kids did have were records.
749
00:41:17,811 --> 00:41:19,855
[record scratching]
750
00:41:19,855 --> 00:41:22,566
Or more correctly,
their parents had records,
751
00:41:22,566 --> 00:41:28,030
introducing them to funk,
disco, soul, jazz, and the blues.
752
00:41:28,030 --> 00:41:31,158
And having the history of American music
at their fingertips
753
00:41:31,158 --> 00:41:33,452
allowed them to transform the past.
754
00:41:35,412 --> 00:41:37,456
The opening piano line from a ballad
755
00:41:37,456 --> 00:41:39,958
on Stevie Wonder's
Songs in the Key of Life
756
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:43,378
was repurposed for Ol' Dirty Bastard.
757
00:41:44,213 --> 00:41:46,215
♪ Ooh, baby, I like it raw ♪
758
00:41:46,215 --> 00:41:48,258
♪ Yeah, baby, I like it raw... ♪
759
00:41:48,967 --> 00:41:50,427
♪ One Step Ahead
by Aretha Franklin playing ♪
760
00:41:50,427 --> 00:41:52,804
NIKOLE:
The Queen of Soul's take
on pending heartbreak...
761
00:41:52,804 --> 00:41:55,182
♪
762
00:41:55,182 --> 00:41:58,101
a few generations later,
becomes a Mos Def track.
763
00:41:58,101 --> 00:41:59,269
♪ Ms. Fat Booty
by Mos Def playing ♪
764
00:41:59,269 --> 00:42:00,604
♪ The Payback
by James Brown playing ♪
765
00:42:00,604 --> 00:42:02,105
And the Godfather of Soul?
766
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,775
He shows up again...
767
00:42:04,775 --> 00:42:07,528
♪ The Big Payback
by EPMD playing ♪
768
00:42:07,528 --> 00:42:08,529
...and again...
769
00:42:08,529 --> 00:42:10,697
♪ Everything
by Mary J. Blige playing ♪
770
00:42:10,697 --> 00:42:11,698
...and again.
771
00:42:11,698 --> 00:42:15,869
♪ King Kunta
by Kendrick Lamar playing ♪
772
00:42:15,869 --> 00:42:17,538
So we grew up on these albums,
773
00:42:17,538 --> 00:42:20,707
and then,
as part of the hip-hop generation,
774
00:42:20,707 --> 00:42:22,960
we grew up on the sampling
of these albums.
775
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,253
WESLEY:
Yes.
776
00:42:24,253 --> 00:42:27,464
NIKOLE: Hearing a track
where it was immediately familiar,
777
00:42:27,464 --> 00:42:28,924
but not the same.
WESLEY: Right.
778
00:42:28,924 --> 00:42:31,593
Or you couldn't put your finger
on why it was so familiar.
779
00:42:31,593 --> 00:42:33,470
- NIKOLE: That's right. Right?
- Yeah. Yeah.
780
00:42:33,470 --> 00:42:36,139
- 'Cause sometimes,
you didn't even know it was an old song
781
00:42:36,139 --> 00:42:38,267
or you couldn't name
what the original song was.
782
00:42:38,267 --> 00:42:40,853
- That's the genius of the sampling!
- But you would hear it and you'd be like,
783
00:42:40,853 --> 00:42:44,523
"This feels familiar to me."
WESLEY: Mm-hmm. Yes.
784
00:42:46,024 --> 00:42:48,235
NIKOLE:
In spirit, sampling is a continuation
785
00:42:48,235 --> 00:42:50,404
of something
we've always done in our music.
786
00:42:52,990 --> 00:42:55,492
You take a song like Motherless Child,
787
00:42:55,492 --> 00:42:57,786
it comes to us from the Antebellum Era
788
00:42:57,786 --> 00:43:00,664
and has all of these different lives.
789
00:43:00,664 --> 00:43:04,042
It's sung by soul singers
like O.V. Wright...
790
00:43:04,042 --> 00:43:06,712
♪ Sometimes I feel ♪
791
00:43:08,797 --> 00:43:11,383
♪ Like a motherless child ♪
792
00:43:11,383 --> 00:43:13,719
...Richie Havens at Woodstock,
793
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,679
which he combines
with his song Freedom...
794
00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:21,685
- ♪ Sometimes I feel
like a motherless child ♪
795
00:43:22,477 --> 00:43:25,272
FREDARA:
His version is particularly agitated.
796
00:43:25,272 --> 00:43:27,816
That already gets us
at least a hundred years
797
00:43:27,816 --> 00:43:29,151
after the song comes to us,
798
00:43:29,151 --> 00:43:31,361
a hundred years after emancipation.
799
00:43:31,361 --> 00:43:35,908
But then, it shows up
on Ghostface's Ironman album,
800
00:43:35,908 --> 00:43:39,536
Motherless Child,
where he samples the O.V. Wright version
801
00:43:39,536 --> 00:43:41,330
on this song with Raekwon.
802
00:43:41,330 --> 00:43:45,417
- ♪ Sometimes I feel
like a motherless child... ♪
803
00:43:47,461 --> 00:43:48,545
NIKOLE:
And for many artists,
804
00:43:48,545 --> 00:43:51,965
sampling is about honoring the memory
of those who came before us.
805
00:43:58,013 --> 00:44:00,390
♪ Emit light, rap, or Emmett Till ♪
806
00:44:00,390 --> 00:44:03,268
♪ I drew a line without showing my body
That's a skill ♪
807
00:44:03,268 --> 00:44:05,312
♪ Bad to the bone and the grill ♪
808
00:44:05,312 --> 00:44:06,897
♪ You'd be dead wrong if looks killed ♪
809
00:44:06,897 --> 00:44:09,983
♪ I'm still on my spill
In the spirit of L. Hill ♪
810
00:44:09,983 --> 00:44:12,486
♪ Eye on the sparrow
Nose like a pharaoh ♪
811
00:44:12,486 --> 00:44:15,072
♪ Our bloodline trill for the young
and all the lils ♪
812
00:44:15,072 --> 00:44:16,490
♪ We all gon' get mils ♪
813
00:44:16,490 --> 00:44:19,076
♪ Talk a lot of game
but we get paid to like Jemele ♪
814
00:44:19,076 --> 00:44:22,079
♪ Was raised upon a hill
The valley's a sunken place ♪
815
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:24,831
♪ I'm just tryna build
like I came with some kettle weight ♪
816
00:44:24,831 --> 00:44:27,501
♪ Know I'm a god emcee
I made the devil wait ♪
817
00:44:27,501 --> 00:44:30,128
♪ 'Fore I brought hell
You ain't gotta tell me I'm hella great ♪
818
00:44:30,963 --> 00:44:34,758
NIKOLE:
Possibly one of the most underrated
and fiercest artists in the game,
819
00:44:34,758 --> 00:44:38,512
Rapsody's sound draws a throughline
from the emcees that inspired her
820
00:44:38,512 --> 00:44:41,849
to the music she grew up with
in Snow Hill, North Carolina.
821
00:44:45,143 --> 00:44:47,104
RAPSODY:
If I had to give the soundtrack
822
00:44:47,104 --> 00:44:49,273
to what it was like
growing up in Snow Hill,
823
00:44:50,107 --> 00:44:52,776
it would be two things, right?
Soul and hip-hop.
824
00:44:53,443 --> 00:44:56,154
'Cause you have the aunties,
like my mom and dad,
825
00:44:56,154 --> 00:44:59,157
and they're listening
to, like, Luther Vandross...
826
00:44:59,157 --> 00:45:02,035
♪ Never Too Much
by Luther Vandross playing ♪
827
00:45:02,536 --> 00:45:04,288
...and Al Green...
828
00:45:04,288 --> 00:45:07,457
♪ Take Me to the River
by Al Green playing ♪
829
00:45:07,457 --> 00:45:11,170
...and The Isley Brothers,
and The Temptations and all of that.
830
00:45:11,170 --> 00:45:13,505
My older brothers and sisters
and all my cousins,
831
00:45:13,505 --> 00:45:15,674
it'd be like Mary J. Blige...
832
00:45:15,674 --> 00:45:17,676
♪ Be Happy
by Mary J. Blige playing ♪
833
00:45:17,676 --> 00:45:21,138
...Nas and, you know,
A Tribe Called Quest, like, you know--
834
00:45:21,138 --> 00:45:23,348
So I-- I got the best of both worlds.
835
00:45:26,101 --> 00:45:29,438
NIKOLE:
Snow Hill is just a few hours
from Tryon, North Carolina,
836
00:45:29,438 --> 00:45:32,816
where Nina Simone,
the Priestess of Soul, was born.
837
00:45:32,816 --> 00:45:35,819
♪
838
00:45:37,487 --> 00:45:40,449
RAPSODY: Lauryn Hill
is probably my greatest inspiration.
839
00:45:40,449 --> 00:45:43,869
And Nina Simone
is Lauryn's greatest inspiration.
840
00:45:43,869 --> 00:45:46,288
And it made me
wanna dive into who she was.
841
00:45:46,288 --> 00:45:48,081
And then I learned
she's from North Carolina.
842
00:45:49,541 --> 00:45:51,543
♪ Southern trees ♪
843
00:45:56,048 --> 00:45:57,758
♪ Bearing strange fruit... ♪
844
00:45:57,758 --> 00:45:59,968
RHAPSODY:
She has so much depth and pain
845
00:45:59,968 --> 00:46:01,637
and emotion in her voice.
846
00:46:01,637 --> 00:46:05,599
I thought it was only right
and beautiful to sample her.
847
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:08,894
♪ Nina by Rapsody playing ♪
848
00:46:11,563 --> 00:46:14,233
[protesters chanting "Black lives matter"]
849
00:46:14,233 --> 00:46:15,234
We did that in a time
850
00:46:15,234 --> 00:46:17,861
where Black Lives Matter
was super heavy.
851
00:46:17,861 --> 00:46:18,987
That was important to me.
852
00:46:18,987 --> 00:46:20,364
Just bringing her spirit in today
853
00:46:20,364 --> 00:46:23,367
and making sure that her message
lives on through me,
854
00:46:23,367 --> 00:46:24,952
adding my message to it.
855
00:46:24,952 --> 00:46:27,746
♪ You'd agree ♪
856
00:46:27,746 --> 00:46:30,249
♪ Everybody should be free ♪
857
00:46:30,249 --> 00:46:32,000
♪ 'Cause if we ain't, we'd be murderers ♪
858
00:46:38,340 --> 00:46:41,134
RHAPSODY:
I always hear her voice in my head
whenever I'm going in the studio...
859
00:46:43,846 --> 00:46:46,974
"Do not forget,
as an artist, what your purpose is:
860
00:46:49,017 --> 00:46:51,478
to reflect the times,
whatever that time is."
861
00:47:09,997 --> 00:47:14,793
♪ Birds flyin' high ♪
862
00:47:14,793 --> 00:47:17,963
♪ You know how I feel ♪
863
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:24,344
♪ Sun up in the sky ♪
864
00:47:24,344 --> 00:47:28,974
♪ You know how I feel ♪
865
00:47:36,815 --> 00:47:42,821
♪ Breeze driftin' on by ♪
866
00:47:42,821 --> 00:47:46,867
♪ You know how I feel ♪
867
00:47:49,578 --> 00:47:51,955
♪ It's a new dawn ♪
868
00:47:51,955 --> 00:47:54,541
♪ It's a new day ♪
869
00:47:54,541 --> 00:47:57,336
♪ It's a new life ♪
870
00:47:57,336 --> 00:48:00,714
♪ For me ♪
871
00:48:07,179 --> 00:48:12,267
♪ And I'm feelin' good ♪
872
00:48:15,729 --> 00:48:17,523
BRITTANY HOWARD:
With Nina,
873
00:48:17,523 --> 00:48:22,945
it had something
to do with how she processes pain.
874
00:48:23,529 --> 00:48:26,365
She can turn it
into something so beautiful,
875
00:48:26,365 --> 00:48:27,991
so bittersweet.
876
00:48:27,991 --> 00:48:31,787
And you feel like, "Oh,
she understands what I'm going through,"
877
00:48:31,787 --> 00:48:32,829
because it's so genuine.
878
00:48:32,829 --> 00:48:35,207
♪ She takes ♪
879
00:48:37,125 --> 00:48:39,419
♪ Just like a woman... ♪
880
00:48:39,419 --> 00:48:41,129
And Nina's somebody too, who I feel,
881
00:48:41,129 --> 00:48:43,799
like, reached across
a lot of different genres.
882
00:48:43,799 --> 00:48:45,676
She would pick from Bob Dylan...
883
00:48:45,676 --> 00:48:48,512
♪ Just Like A Woman
by Bob Dylan playing ♪
884
00:48:48,512 --> 00:48:51,223
...Leonard Cohen, The Rolling Stones,
885
00:48:51,223 --> 00:48:53,725
and she would bring it all together
just to express herself.
886
00:48:53,725 --> 00:48:56,728
♪
887
00:48:58,647 --> 00:49:01,859
NIKOLE: Brittany Howard knows
something about reaching across genres.
888
00:49:01,859 --> 00:49:03,443
Throughout her award-winning career,
889
00:49:03,443 --> 00:49:06,905
she's seemingly played everything
and anything that she's wanted.
890
00:49:09,241 --> 00:49:11,994
BRITTANY: Well, if you're
an Uber driver and you ask me
891
00:49:11,994 --> 00:49:14,329
what kind of music I play,
892
00:49:14,329 --> 00:49:16,707
uh, I would probably just say,
like, "Oh, you know,
893
00:49:16,707 --> 00:49:21,587
it's like a little bit, like,
soul and R&B kind of stuff, you know?"
894
00:49:21,587 --> 00:49:24,131
But as time has gone on,
it's a little bit more than that.
895
00:49:24,673 --> 00:49:29,595
And, um, I-- I-- I kind of can't find
a genre to put my music in.
896
00:49:30,512 --> 00:49:31,763
I just like to say it's my music.
897
00:49:32,264 --> 00:49:34,558
It is Black, fat, queer music.
898
00:49:36,810 --> 00:49:40,063
NIKOLE:
Howard formed the group
The Alabama Shakes in 2009,
899
00:49:40,063 --> 00:49:43,984
and their unique style that draws
from multiple genres of American music,
900
00:49:43,984 --> 00:49:45,903
is, at its core, Black.
901
00:49:45,903 --> 00:49:49,406
♪ Hold On
by Alabama Shakes playing ♪
902
00:49:49,406 --> 00:49:51,325
It was kinda like a MC5...
903
00:49:51,325 --> 00:49:53,785
♪ Kick Out of the Jaws
by MC5 playing ♪
904
00:49:53,785 --> 00:49:55,621
...meets, like, Sharon Jones.
905
00:49:55,621 --> 00:49:59,041
♪ If You Call
by Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings playing ♪
906
00:49:59,041 --> 00:50:02,377
And, um, grew up
on all that Motown stuff.
907
00:50:02,878 --> 00:50:04,880
So we were kinda marrying,
like, this old Motown stuff
908
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,883
that we could all agree upon,
also with, like--
909
00:50:07,883 --> 00:50:12,095
We loved Sabbath, we loved Pink Floyd,
we loved Zeppelin, we loved AC/DC,
910
00:50:12,095 --> 00:50:14,389
and we kinda put it together
911
00:50:14,389 --> 00:50:17,434
and the genre lines
got kinda blurred and confusing
912
00:50:17,434 --> 00:50:20,312
'cause there wasn't like a little box
for us to go into.
913
00:50:20,312 --> 00:50:23,315
♪ You Ain't Alone
by Alabama Shakes playing ♪
914
00:50:25,234 --> 00:50:26,693
NIKOLE:
The music industry decided
915
00:50:26,693 --> 00:50:29,446
The Alabama Shakes should be
in rock and alternative,
916
00:50:29,446 --> 00:50:30,739
but when Howard went solo,
917
00:50:30,739 --> 00:50:33,825
she still managed
to forge her own lane and defy genre.
918
00:50:34,868 --> 00:50:38,247
BRITTANY:
Wanting to make a solo record
was a very personal decision for me
919
00:50:38,247 --> 00:50:40,707
because everything was going great.
920
00:50:40,707 --> 00:50:43,961
But to me, it was like,
"Okay, I've come this far.
921
00:50:44,461 --> 00:50:48,549
"How do I make something that is--
Really feels like me?
922
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:51,718
"That also includes,
like, these hip-hop elements
923
00:50:51,718 --> 00:50:53,095
and stuff that I grew up with."
924
00:50:53,095 --> 00:50:56,098
♪ Goat Head
by Brittany Howard playing ♪
925
00:50:59,935 --> 00:51:01,436
I love '90s R&B.
926
00:51:01,436 --> 00:51:02,896
I wanna put that in my music,
927
00:51:02,896 --> 00:51:05,691
and then I wanna sing about who I am.
928
00:51:05,691 --> 00:51:09,278
And the Grammy goes to Brittany Howard.
929
00:51:11,196 --> 00:51:13,407
NIKOLE:
Howard's solo album, Jaime ,
930
00:51:13,407 --> 00:51:16,034
was nominated in the rock, alternative,
931
00:51:16,034 --> 00:51:19,580
R&B, and roots categories
at the 63rd Grammys,
932
00:51:19,580 --> 00:51:22,875
a rarity in an industry
that has long cornered Black artists
933
00:51:22,875 --> 00:51:25,043
into "Black genres."
934
00:51:27,963 --> 00:51:32,676
- So when the recording industry
starts in the early 20th century,
935
00:51:33,468 --> 00:51:35,470
it basically has three buckets.
936
00:51:35,470 --> 00:51:37,764
It has a Country and Western bucket,
937
00:51:37,764 --> 00:51:41,935
which is for rural
and Southern white folks.
938
00:51:41,935 --> 00:51:44,271
You have the pop bucket,
939
00:51:44,271 --> 00:51:48,275
which is, you know,
middle-class white audiences.
940
00:51:48,275 --> 00:51:51,445
And then you have the race music category,
941
00:51:51,445 --> 00:51:54,615
which is any music that Black people make.
942
00:51:54,615 --> 00:51:58,160
And so race music
is this act of segregation
943
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,079
that puts all Black music off to the side
944
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:05,834
and says, "Okay, we're only going
to market you to other Black audiences."
945
00:52:05,834 --> 00:52:08,253
Black artists rarely had the opportunity
946
00:52:08,253 --> 00:52:11,632
to even be promoted and introduced
to white audiences.
947
00:52:11,632 --> 00:52:14,468
♪ Tutti Frutti by Little Richard playing ♪
948
00:52:14,468 --> 00:52:17,137
NIKOLE: Every now and then,
songs that topped the Black charts
949
00:52:17,137 --> 00:52:20,057
would crossover
to the pop charts and become a hit.
950
00:52:20,057 --> 00:52:23,310
♪ Tutti Frutti by Pat Boone playing ♪
951
00:52:23,310 --> 00:52:27,231
But more often than not,
the song or melody, or the "sound"...
952
00:52:27,231 --> 00:52:30,734
♪ Sweet Little Sixteen
by Chuck Berry playing ♪
953
00:52:30,734 --> 00:52:32,694
♪ Surfin' USA by Beach Boys playing ♪
954
00:52:32,694 --> 00:52:34,988
...would be appropriated
by a white artist.
955
00:52:36,156 --> 00:52:39,785
This appropriation often deprived
Black artists who created the music
956
00:52:39,785 --> 00:52:42,120
from any real financial success.
957
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,957
The actual name of the chart
has changed over the years,
958
00:52:44,957 --> 00:52:47,668
but the segregation
created by the music industry
959
00:52:47,668 --> 00:52:52,005
continues to deny Black influence
in genres considered to be white.
960
00:52:52,005 --> 00:52:54,883
♪ My Old School
by Steely Dan playing ♪
961
00:52:54,883 --> 00:52:59,054
- Yacht rock is Black as hell.
It's Black. It's just Black, right?
962
00:52:59,054 --> 00:53:01,014
It's R&B, you know.
963
00:53:01,014 --> 00:53:04,226
♪ My Old School
by Steely Dan playing ♪
964
00:53:04,226 --> 00:53:07,646
And even with that,
like, a lot of that had Black audiences.
965
00:53:07,646 --> 00:53:11,525
Black people love Steely Dan,
love Hall & Oates.
966
00:53:11,525 --> 00:53:14,403
♪ She's Gone by Hall & Oates playing ♪
967
00:53:17,698 --> 00:53:21,034
- I think that, you know,
one of the amazing things about music
968
00:53:21,034 --> 00:53:24,329
is that, you know, despite
all the fighting that we have done
969
00:53:24,329 --> 00:53:27,708
to achieve a kind of what--
whatever we think equality is,
970
00:53:28,417 --> 00:53:30,961
there are these moments in American music
971
00:53:30,961 --> 00:53:35,048
where equality and integration
have actually been achieved.
972
00:53:35,048 --> 00:53:37,801
It's aberrant
in a history of exploitation,
973
00:53:38,635 --> 00:53:42,598
taking our ideas, our actual music,
974
00:53:42,598 --> 00:53:45,434
making money from it
and never giving it back to us.
975
00:53:46,143 --> 00:53:49,313
Um, so those--
those moments of integration,
976
00:53:49,313 --> 00:53:51,773
those moments
of consensual collaboration are rare
977
00:53:52,441 --> 00:53:57,279
and all the more precious when they also--
when they also sound good,
978
00:53:57,279 --> 00:53:59,406
um, when they also feel good.
979
00:53:59,406 --> 00:54:03,410
♪
980
00:54:03,410 --> 00:54:07,414
But, again, the minstrel urge
in this country is strong,
981
00:54:07,414 --> 00:54:10,000
and it is still with us to this day.
982
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,960
Every time
the Grammy nominations come out,
983
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,589
I'm always like, "Oh, God,
please don't let it be another year
where...
984
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:17,799
NIKOLE:
We can't even win in our own category?
985
00:54:17,799 --> 00:54:20,969
WESLEY: ...where X person
is going to take over,
986
00:54:20,969 --> 00:54:24,556
you know, this-- this ghetto category
that they invented
987
00:54:24,556 --> 00:54:27,809
to keep us out of the major categories.
988
00:54:27,809 --> 00:54:29,269
You let the white people in,
989
00:54:29,269 --> 00:54:32,064
and they, you know,
they go home with their arms full.
990
00:54:32,064 --> 00:54:34,066
[Wesley laughing]
991
00:54:34,483 --> 00:54:39,196
It's-- It's a strong urge,
and it is-- it is with us to this day.
992
00:54:39,696 --> 00:54:41,698
♪
993
00:54:42,491 --> 00:54:46,370
NIKOLE:
But despite the historical struggles
that still exist in the industry,
994
00:54:46,370 --> 00:54:50,207
Black artists have continued to expand
America's musical landscape,
995
00:54:50,207 --> 00:54:52,084
tapping into a depth of feeling
996
00:54:52,084 --> 00:54:56,380
that the field songs and spirituals
instilled in us from the very beginning.
997
00:54:58,674 --> 00:55:02,219
BRITTANY:
Freedom for me is-- is-- is something
I'm always trying to experience.
998
00:55:02,219 --> 00:55:05,097
Freedom from my own mind,
999
00:55:05,097 --> 00:55:09,142
freedom in my body, freedom to be.
1000
00:55:09,142 --> 00:55:13,605
And I believe from the very,
very youngest, youngest age
1001
00:55:13,605 --> 00:55:15,691
of experiencing music,
1002
00:55:15,691 --> 00:55:18,110
I-- I saw that freedom was there.
1003
00:55:18,902 --> 00:55:20,863
Freedom. This is my next maturation.
1004
00:55:20,863 --> 00:55:24,324
Like, what does
a completely free Rapsody look like?
1005
00:55:24,324 --> 00:55:28,787
You know, where I'm not concerned about
I gotta tell this story, do so, like--
1006
00:55:28,787 --> 00:55:30,747
No, this is how I'm feeling today.
1007
00:55:31,582 --> 00:55:33,041
And I could be human today.
1008
00:55:33,041 --> 00:55:35,961
This, I think, is what
I've been working at, that freedom.
1009
00:55:36,712 --> 00:55:42,217
OTIS:
When you have left something
so profoundly wonderful, strong,
1010
00:55:42,217 --> 00:55:43,927
you can't help but feel good.
1011
00:55:43,927 --> 00:55:46,847
The impression
that our music has made on people.
1012
00:55:47,347 --> 00:55:48,724
You know, so I'm just glad
1013
00:55:48,724 --> 00:55:52,853
to be a part of something
that is really, really powerful.
1014
00:55:53,770 --> 00:55:57,900
NILE: It was music that
made us think on a different level.
1015
00:55:57,900 --> 00:56:02,237
And to an artist, that kind of freedom,
1016
00:56:02,237 --> 00:56:05,115
especially to an artist of color,
1017
00:56:05,115 --> 00:56:06,992
that kind of freedom--
1018
00:56:06,992 --> 00:56:10,329
Like they say,
you can't put the cork back in the bottle.
1019
00:56:10,329 --> 00:56:13,790
Once that's unleashed upon the world,
1020
00:56:13,790 --> 00:56:15,792
you can only go forward from there
1021
00:56:15,792 --> 00:56:20,130
regardless of how hard
the gatekeepers try and stop you.
1022
00:56:22,132 --> 00:56:24,343
NIKOLE: The music
that my father passed down to me,
1023
00:56:24,343 --> 00:56:27,304
that we danced to
at cookouts and family reunions,
1024
00:56:27,304 --> 00:56:30,224
and listened to
in moments of joy and sorrow,
1025
00:56:30,224 --> 00:56:31,600
is a part of who I am
1026
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,228
and will, ultimately,
be passed on to my daughter.
1027
00:56:34,811 --> 00:56:37,648
So much
of what makes our music so beloved,
1028
00:56:37,648 --> 00:56:39,900
so full of life and full of soul,
1029
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:43,904
comes from the singular experience
of being Black in America.
1030
00:56:44,988 --> 00:56:49,284
So you wrote that the sound of Black music
is the sound of freedom.
1031
00:56:49,284 --> 00:56:50,285
- Mm-hmm.
1032
00:56:50,285 --> 00:56:53,413
That Black music is uncatchable,
1033
00:56:53,413 --> 00:56:57,459
and that is a--
a particular choice of word
1034
00:56:57,459 --> 00:57:00,587
for people
who were brought here in bondage.
1035
00:57:00,587 --> 00:57:01,588
WESLEY:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
1036
00:57:01,588 --> 00:57:06,552
NIKOLE: Uh, so what is it
about Black music that is uncatchable?
1037
00:57:08,095 --> 00:57:11,682
I mean, it is constantly moving.
1038
00:57:12,516 --> 00:57:14,309
It is constantly being transferred
1039
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:16,854
from one generation
to the next generation.
1040
00:57:16,854 --> 00:57:19,690
I think it can't be written down.
1041
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,527
It can't be literally explained.
1042
00:57:23,527 --> 00:57:24,862
It's a feeling.
1043
00:57:24,862 --> 00:57:27,573
It's a thing that you hear and recognize.
1044
00:57:27,573 --> 00:57:31,702
You know, it is a spirit that lives in us,
1045
00:57:31,702 --> 00:57:35,330
and it's a thing that
lots of people want to respond to,
1046
00:57:35,998 --> 00:57:40,544
but they don't know what to do with it
when they get it.
1047
00:57:40,544 --> 00:57:43,839
You know, you have to--
you have to know it when you feel it.
1048
00:57:44,423 --> 00:57:47,885
There are centuries in that music.
1049
00:57:47,885 --> 00:57:49,428
Centuries in that spirit.
1050
00:57:49,428 --> 00:57:53,307
And it sounds like a light thing,
but it's actually-- it's actually deep.
1051
00:57:54,016 --> 00:57:57,227
And it's-- it's too deep
to be encapsulated.
1052
00:57:57,227 --> 00:57:59,479
It's too fast. It's too elusive.
1053
00:57:59,479 --> 00:58:01,815
Whatever money
they want to make off of it,
1054
00:58:02,649 --> 00:58:04,943
they'll never get
what it's actually all about
1055
00:58:05,527 --> 00:58:06,820
because you can't catch it.
1056
00:58:12,159 --> 00:58:15,162
♪
1057
00:58:15,579 --> 00:58:17,331
NIKOLE:
But if the bedrock of American music
1058
00:58:17,331 --> 00:58:21,543
has been the expression of a people
who were denied freedom for centuries,
1059
00:58:21,543 --> 00:58:25,964
the bedrock of slavery itself
was a uniquely brutal form of capitalism.
1060
00:58:25,964 --> 00:58:28,091
WOMAN:
So this is one of the first,
1061
00:58:28,091 --> 00:58:31,053
uh, highly standardized
plantation account books.
1062
00:58:31,053 --> 00:58:34,806
Six days a week, you have the amount
of pounds of cotton that they're picking.
1063
00:58:35,682 --> 00:58:38,936
MAN: If you're on the Amazon website,
you put the item in your cart,
1064
00:58:39,561 --> 00:58:42,731
boom, literally pops up
on your screen as a picker.
1065
00:58:43,232 --> 00:58:48,654
I've picked on an average,
350 to 400 items an hour.
1066
00:58:49,321 --> 00:58:52,741
They push you to pick 400.
1067
00:58:53,867 --> 00:58:56,495
♪
1068
00:58:57,788 --> 00:59:01,542
♪