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♪
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NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES:
Frederick Douglass, 1880.
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"When the Hebrews were emancipated,
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"they were told
to take spoil from the Egyptians.
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"When the serfs of Russia
were emancipated,
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"they were given three acres of ground
upon which they could live
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"and make a living.
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"But not so
when our slaves were emancipated.
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"They were sent away empty-handed,
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"without money, without friends,
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"and without a foot of land to stand upon.
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"Old and young, sick and well,
were turned loose to the open sky,
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naked to their enemies."
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♪ somber theme playing ♪
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This is The 1619 Project.
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♪
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When I think about equality,
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I think about the story
that is often told in this country.
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And according to that story,
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Black Americans have struggled
to achieve equality,
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but that struggle
has mostly been overcome.
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To hear many tell it,
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America is, by and large,
an equal opportunity society.
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We point
to The Emancipation Proclamation,
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or the wins
of the Civil Rights Movement...
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- The only limit
to a man's hope for happiness
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and for the future of his children
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shall be his own ability.
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NIKOLE:
...or the election of a Black president
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as proof of justice.
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- Change has come to America.
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NIKOLE:
But that narrative ignores
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the persistent and vast racial wealth gap
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that decade after decade
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is the most glaring marker
of Black inequality.
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Today, the average white household
has eight times the wealth
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of an average Black household.
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MAN:
♪ Who'll pay reparations on my soul? ♪
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♪ lively piano playing ♪
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NIKOLE:
Wealth, assets and investments minus debt,
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is peace of mind.
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Wealth is what allows you
to buy a home in a safe neighborhood
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with better-funded schools,
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what allows you
to send your kids to college
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without saddling them with debt,
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and what enables you
to weather emergencies.
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Wealth accumulates over time.
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Seldom something we build alone,
it is often inherited.
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And in this country,
Black people, more than any other group,
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have been systematically deprived
of building generational wealth.
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More than 50 years since
the bloody and brutally repressed protests
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and freedom struggles of Black Americans
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brought about the end
of legal discrimination,
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so much of what makes Black lives hard,
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what takes Black lives earlier,
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what steals opportunities,
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is the lack of wealth that has been
a defining feature of Black life
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since the end of slavery.
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And so, if we are truly serious
about creating a more just society,
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we must get down to the root of it.
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We must talk about what is owed.
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SINGERS:
♪ Who'll pay reparations on my soul? ♪
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♪
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JADON RELAFORD:
My name is Jadon Relaford.
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I'm from Riceboro, Georgia,
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which is, um, it's in Liberty County,
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uh, southeast Georgia
in between Savannah and Brunswick.
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I started JD's horse ranch,
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and it's a place where
we do trail rides and we do lessons.
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I initially started it because I wanted
to expose our people and our culture
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to something different
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than the typical things
that they say that we're supposed to be.
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I think the main thing
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that's actually holding me up right now
from growing my business
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is having land,
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being able to be on my own property
with my own horses.
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Uh, right now, where I am,
I have to pay to keep my horses there.
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NIKOLE:
Many Americans struggle
to achieve their dreams,
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but what makes
Jadon Relaford's story so unjust
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is that his family once had land
along the coast of Georgia
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in a small secluded community
called Harris Neck.
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Today, the community's land would
likely be worth more than $100 million.
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But before Jadon was born,
the federal government took it.
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And while he often visited
Harris Neck as a child,
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that is a story
that Jadon only learned as an adult.
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JADON:
I first started hearing
about the land that was taken
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probably about 15 years ago.
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And I heard about that
directly from my grandmother,
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by way of prayer request in church.
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I didn't really understand
what was going on,
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but I do remember, distinctively,
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her asking for us
to-- to keep that in prayer.
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It wasn't until right before
my grandmother had passed away
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where I really started to dig in
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and-- and get a better,
a deeper understanding
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of what had happened to her,
um, as a child in Harris Neck.
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♪
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NIKOLE:
W hen you arrive on the Harris Neck
National Wildlife Refuge,
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about an hour outside of Savannah,
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there's really no sign
of what it used to be.
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It's lush and humid.
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Birds and cicadas provide the soundtrack.
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♪
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But for the Harris Neck descendants
a few generations older than Jadon,
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the memories of what was
linger just beneath the surface.
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WILSON W. MORAN:
My name is Wilson W. Moran.
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And, uh, born in 1942 in a lean-to shack
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on the side of the road,
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outside of Harris Neck Road
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after we were forced off of Harris Neck.
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NIKOLE:
In 1942, the federal government
cited eminent domain
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when it told the Harris Neck community
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that the government needed their land
for the World War II effort.
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♪
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So, tell me about this place.
- This is--
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WILSON:
This is the runway to the air base.
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- So when the military came
what would have been here at that time?
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What would we have seen if we were here?
WILSON: The houses.
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Uh, the community.
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Uh, a thriving community
of about 72 families
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on 2,687 acres of land.
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NIKOLE:
So, in this desolate area now
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would have been a bustling community?
WILSON: Of course, yes.
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NIKOLE: Children playing--
WILSON: Yes.
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A post office.
We had our own school in walking distance.
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Uh, own fire station.
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We had everything here.
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♪
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OLIVE W. SMITH:
Olive W. Smith.
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Age 94.
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I finished the seventh grade
in Harris Neck.
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[rooster crows]
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- [chuckles] I had to get up--
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had to get up in the morning,
feed them chickens,
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and gather them plums.
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That was my job before I go to school.
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I had to get up time enough to do that.
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Everybody was nice
and loving with each others.
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And if you needed help,
they would help each others.
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That's the way they was. Yeah.
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Uh-huh.
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Get in the field and work.
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If they needed help, they would help.
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♪
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NIKOLE:
But almost overnight,
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a loving and thriving community
that had taken decades to build
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was scattered and destroyed.
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♪
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♪
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♪
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♪
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♪
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♪
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♪
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- Harris Neck is a stunning 3,000 acres
on the Georgia coast.
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And to the 75 families
who used to live there,
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it is the promised land.
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Well, 40 years have gone by now,
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and their promised land
has never been returned.
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The Harris Neck folks
have tried and tried to go back home.
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NIKOLE:
Harris Neck descendants
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have been fighting
to get their land back for decades,
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a fight their parents
and grandparents struggled to wage.
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- I still don't understand
why your folks would give up
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without a fight.
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- One reason would be because, uh,
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they've had total faith in our government.
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Uh, the other reason is they are Black.
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And in the '40s,
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um, who, or why, or how could they fight?
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MIKE WALLACE: A Black person...
WILSON: Right.
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MIKE: ... in Georgia...
WILSON: Exactly.
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MIKE: ...in the early '40s...
WILSON: Exactly.
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MIKE:
...had no weapons with which to fight.
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WILSON: Exactly.
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NIKOLE:
Harris Neck is just one
of countless Black communities
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that, over the centuries,
have been taken or destroyed
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by white terrorism and government policy.
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In New York, city officials seized
the Black enclave of Seneca Village
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to make Central Park.
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White mobs burned down
prospering Black towns
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such as Wilmington, North Carolina,
and Rosewood, Florida,
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and massacred their citizens.
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Cities like Detroit
and Saint Paul, Minnesota,
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ran highways
through Black neighborhoods
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like Black Bottom and Rondo.
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And in Harris Neck,
just like all the rest,
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it is nearly impossible to calculate
the financial losses across generations.
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WILSON:
They started in slavery. You had nothing.
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You were a zero.
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So, now you have these things,
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so you begin to accumulate
and, uh, build wealth.
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And, uh, build wealth
for your children and your grandchildren,
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you know what I mean?
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And all of a sudden,
in-- in two weeks, it's gone.
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NIKOLE:
Some families reportedly received
small payments from the government,
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but they said they were only a fraction
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of what the land
and businesses were worth.
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Others maintain they got nothing at all.
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For the people of Harris Neck,
owning their own land
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symbolized the hope and the freedom
their enslaved ancestors had dreamed of.
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And both Jadon and Wilson
can trace what they lost
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directly to their ancestor, Mustapha Shaw.
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Mustapha's story is so remarkable
that it sounds more like lore.
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Your great-grandfather
was a man born into slavery,
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gets his land at a time when Black people
are fighting just for basic rights.
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So talk to me about--
What-- What kind of person was he?
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WILSON:
Well, you-- you gotta go back
to why he ran away
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and joined the Union Army.
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- Uh-huh.
- It was something instilled in him
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that he wanted to be a man.
NIKOLE: Yes.
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- And he wanted
to be a man to be reckoned with.
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♪
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♪
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NIKOLE:
W hen we talk about equality,
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and what is owed to Black Americans,
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we must start with the fact that slavery
and the Jim Crow era that followed
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were, at their essence,
systems of economic exploitation.
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Throughout his life, Mustapha Shaw
defiantly resisted those systems
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00:14:07,848 --> 00:14:10,184
in an effort
to acquire wealth for his family.
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But even a near-mythical man
could not hold back the tide.
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DR. ALLISON DORSEY:
I often feel that,
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when I'm doing other things,
that Mustapha is sitting on my shoulder,
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saying, "Don't.
You have other stuff you should be doing.
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You're supposed to be telling people
my story."
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NIKOLE:
How did you come across him?
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- I was doing some research
for another project,
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and I encountered an arrest warrant.
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- So you know
that he was a formerly enslaved man
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00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:51,016
by the time you find him in the records,
but what was his life before that?
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ALLISON:
According to the family lore,
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he was born to an enslaved Muslim woman
who was given the name Catherine.
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00:14:59,316 --> 00:15:04,029
He was enslaved on the Delegal Plantation
in McIntosh County
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00:15:04,029 --> 00:15:07,282
from which he escaped
to join the US Colored Troops.
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NIKOLE:
Mustpaha Shaw was one of
approximately 200,000 Black men
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00:15:12,162 --> 00:15:13,747
who served in the Civil War.
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Black soldiers made up
roughly 10% of the Union Army
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00:15:17,668 --> 00:15:20,629
and have been credited with helping
secure the Union victory
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00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:22,673
that ended the scourge of slavery.
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We don't hear as much
about the enslaved people
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00:15:27,427 --> 00:15:29,638
who were escaping
and serving in the troops.
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How much of a big deal was it
that he ran away,
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um, not too far
from where he was being enslaved
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00:15:35,769 --> 00:15:37,062
to-- to join this effort?
245
00:15:37,062 --> 00:15:38,647
- To my mind, a very big deal.
246
00:15:38,647 --> 00:15:42,234
What I discovered about Mustapha Shaw
and some of his compatriots
247
00:15:42,234 --> 00:15:48,156
is that they tended to leave in groups
of three or four or five or six at a time.
248
00:15:48,156 --> 00:15:52,327
So Mustapha
and four of his compatriots leave,
249
00:15:52,327 --> 00:15:56,415
you know, one winter night
when they've got the right kind of moon
250
00:15:56,415 --> 00:15:58,542
so they can see where they're going,
251
00:15:58,542 --> 00:16:02,212
and they take off
and head to the Union Army.
252
00:16:05,424 --> 00:16:08,552
NIKOLE:
Mustapha fought for the Union Army
for nearly three years.
253
00:16:08,552 --> 00:16:10,679
And in January 1865,
254
00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:13,348
as the Civil War raged
to its final battle,
255
00:16:13,348 --> 00:16:15,350
General William T. Sherman
attended a meeting
256
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:17,436
with a delegation of Black leaders,
257
00:16:17,436 --> 00:16:21,273
and he asked them, "What do you want
for your own people?"
258
00:16:22,441 --> 00:16:25,903
Rev. Garrison Frazier,
the group's leader, made it clear:
259
00:16:26,528 --> 00:16:28,780
"The way we can
best take care of ourselves
260
00:16:28,780 --> 00:16:31,950
is to have land to turn and till
by our own labor."
261
00:16:33,076 --> 00:16:37,331
Four days later,
Sherman issued Special Field Order 15,
262
00:16:37,331 --> 00:16:38,999
calling for the federal government
263
00:16:38,999 --> 00:16:43,003
to seize as much as 400,000 acres
from the Confederacy
264
00:16:43,003 --> 00:16:46,381
and split it among the thousands
of newly emancipated people.
265
00:16:47,257 --> 00:16:50,677
That order would become known
as "Forty acres and a mule."
266
00:16:51,929 --> 00:16:52,888
And to this day,
267
00:16:52,888 --> 00:16:55,849
it is the only real effort
this nation ever made
268
00:16:55,849 --> 00:17:00,437
to compensate Black Americans
for 250 years of chattel slavery.
269
00:17:01,897 --> 00:17:04,066
But that effort didn't even last a year.
270
00:17:04,650 --> 00:17:08,111
Just months after Sherman's order,
Lincoln was assassinated.
271
00:17:08,111 --> 00:17:10,280
His successor, Andrew Johnson,
272
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,158
a former slave owner
and known white supremacist,
273
00:17:13,158 --> 00:17:16,537
rescinded the order
and returned the confiscated land
274
00:17:16,537 --> 00:17:19,289
to the same white men
who had fought against the Union.
275
00:17:25,671 --> 00:17:28,674
And yet, at the same time
the federal government failed to make good
276
00:17:28,674 --> 00:17:31,468
on its 40-acre promise to Black Americans,
277
00:17:31,468 --> 00:17:35,556
it began providing
160-acre land grants to white Americans
278
00:17:35,556 --> 00:17:38,141
and Europeans
enticed to immigrate to the country.
279
00:17:38,642 --> 00:17:40,769
The policy was known as The Homestead Act.
280
00:17:40,769 --> 00:17:43,772
And from 1868 to 1934,
281
00:17:43,772 --> 00:17:48,652
246 million acres,
nearly 10% of the nation's land,
282
00:17:48,652 --> 00:17:51,321
much of which was stolen
from indigenous people,
283
00:17:51,321 --> 00:17:53,073
was given to white families.
284
00:17:53,907 --> 00:17:57,911
It is estimated that there are
more than 46 million white Americans,
285
00:17:57,911 --> 00:18:00,122
a quarter of the US population,
286
00:18:00,122 --> 00:18:02,541
who are still the beneficiaries
of The Homestead Act.
287
00:18:03,292 --> 00:18:05,752
These patterns
of explicit government policy
288
00:18:05,752 --> 00:18:07,504
that helped white people
289
00:18:07,504 --> 00:18:10,424
and largely excluded the formerly enslaved
and their descendants
290
00:18:10,424 --> 00:18:13,427
would be repeated over the next 100 years.
291
00:18:14,845 --> 00:18:17,764
When the federal government
stripped the freed people of their land,
292
00:18:17,764 --> 00:18:21,768
many were forced, once again,
to work for white people on plantations.
293
00:18:22,394 --> 00:18:24,271
But Mustapha Shaw refused
294
00:18:24,271 --> 00:18:27,524
and threatened those
who were returning to those plantations.
295
00:18:27,524 --> 00:18:31,486
Ultimately, the federal government
issued a warrant for his arrest.
296
00:18:31,486 --> 00:18:34,781
- And what's amazing
about the arrest warrant, um--
297
00:18:34,781 --> 00:18:37,242
- This is it right here?
ALLISON: This is the arrest warrant.
298
00:18:37,242 --> 00:18:41,079
They explain
that they are unable to retrieve him
299
00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,124
because he meets them armed.
300
00:18:44,124 --> 00:18:46,001
The text is--
301
00:18:46,001 --> 00:18:48,003
- So he's ready for them?
ALLISON: He's ready for them.
302
00:18:48,003 --> 00:18:53,634
"Shaw then took with him one Pauldo Brown,
one Robert Delegal, one Lee Delegal
303
00:18:53,634 --> 00:18:56,470
"and armed themselves with three guns.
304
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:59,681
"And Shaw also had
a Bowie knife and a pistol.
305
00:18:59,681 --> 00:19:04,311
And all of the armed parties
threatened the officers."
306
00:19:04,311 --> 00:19:07,439
So the image I create in my mind
307
00:19:07,439 --> 00:19:11,568
is the knife in his teeth
and guns in both hands.
308
00:19:11,568 --> 00:19:14,696
So I made him about 6' 3",
309
00:19:14,696 --> 00:19:19,910
chocolate, very muscular,
and Idris Elba good-looking.
310
00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:21,161
- Okay.
311
00:19:21,161 --> 00:19:25,040
- The description from his pension file
was not that.
312
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,543
- It was... Lenny Kravitz good-looking?
ALLISON: It was--
313
00:19:27,543 --> 00:19:29,127
ALLISON: No.
- Oh, okay.
314
00:19:29,127 --> 00:19:30,796
[both laughing]
315
00:19:30,796 --> 00:19:35,759
- It was, 5' 5" or 5' 6",
316
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:39,179
sandy-haired and gray-eyed.
317
00:19:39,179 --> 00:19:42,057
Complexion, light brown.
318
00:19:42,057 --> 00:19:45,811
And, I had to sit with myself a minute,
319
00:19:45,811 --> 00:19:50,065
that my hero didn't match
my outsized imagination.
320
00:19:50,065 --> 00:19:52,776
- Hmm. That's history, right?
321
00:19:52,776 --> 00:19:55,779
♪
322
00:19:56,363 --> 00:19:59,366
Dr. Dorsey found Mustapha
in historical records again
323
00:19:59,366 --> 00:20:03,787
when she discovered the 1868 deed
for land he had purchased in Harris Neck.
324
00:20:03,787 --> 00:20:07,040
Land that ultimately got passed down
to his descendants.
325
00:20:08,542 --> 00:20:11,628
ALLISON:
Mustapha Shaw's story represents, to me,
326
00:20:11,628 --> 00:20:17,509
ferociousness, a determination
to live free on the part of Black men.
327
00:20:18,135 --> 00:20:21,680
What Mustapha's descendants are left with,
328
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,558
to me, is the spirit of Mustapha, right?
329
00:20:24,558 --> 00:20:29,062
But it's not wealth,
it's not material resources,
330
00:20:29,062 --> 00:20:32,941
it is not what Mustapha worked for.
331
00:20:33,442 --> 00:20:38,280
And so, in that sense,
it's a reality of having been cheated.
332
00:20:42,326 --> 00:20:43,827
NIKOLE:
After World War II,
333
00:20:43,827 --> 00:20:47,456
when the federal government decided
it didn't need Harris Neck anymore,
334
00:20:47,456 --> 00:20:51,084
they gave it to McIntosh County,
not to the families who'd owned it.
335
00:20:51,835 --> 00:20:53,420
After the county allowed the land
336
00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:56,381
that had been so precious
to Mustapha's descendants
337
00:20:56,381 --> 00:21:00,260
to be used for illicit gambling,
drag racing, and prostitution,
338
00:21:00,260 --> 00:21:02,137
the federal government took it back,
339
00:21:02,137 --> 00:21:06,141
and in 1962,
they turned it into a wildlife refuge.
340
00:21:07,142 --> 00:21:10,229
- The key word here for me is trauma.
341
00:21:10,229 --> 00:21:11,230
- Mm-hmm.
342
00:21:11,230 --> 00:21:13,607
WILSON:
But, uh, we were able to get through it.
343
00:21:13,607 --> 00:21:15,150
But then you go to the cemetery,
344
00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:17,569
you'll see
a lot of our people died in the '40s
345
00:21:17,569 --> 00:21:20,656
because, uh, their hope,
their dreams, their freedom
346
00:21:20,656 --> 00:21:24,284
were taken from them abruptly
and they could not recover.
347
00:21:24,284 --> 00:21:27,037
Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow.
348
00:21:27,871 --> 00:21:28,872
Bam!
349
00:21:28,872 --> 00:21:30,207
So what am I gonna do?
350
00:21:30,207 --> 00:21:35,003
I'm in my late age, I-- I may as well die.
351
00:21:35,754 --> 00:21:39,383
- What is this community owed
for what happened?
352
00:21:39,967 --> 00:21:40,926
[chuckles]
353
00:21:41,301 --> 00:21:45,389
- There's no, uh, there's--
There's not a price you can put on that,
354
00:21:45,973 --> 00:21:47,683
uh, for the harm,
355
00:21:48,475 --> 00:21:49,768
uh, the hurt,
356
00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:53,730
uh, the dislocation of people.
357
00:21:54,231 --> 00:21:57,818
But what I'm saying this is,
"You owe me my land back."
358
00:21:58,610 --> 00:22:02,281
And, uh, you wanna talk about reparations,
then you'll talk about slavery.
359
00:22:03,490 --> 00:22:05,158
And we were enslaved also.
360
00:22:07,327 --> 00:22:09,329
NIKOLE:
Reparations is not a new idea.
361
00:22:09,913 --> 00:22:12,583
Black Americans have been fighting
for various forms of it
362
00:22:12,583 --> 00:22:15,460
from as early as the late 1700s.
363
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:17,337
Starting in 1783,
364
00:22:17,337 --> 00:22:20,215
a formerly enslaved woman
named Belinda Sutton
365
00:22:20,215 --> 00:22:23,635
filed several petitions
to the Massachusetts Legislature,
366
00:22:23,635 --> 00:22:27,306
demanding a pension from the estate
of the man who once owned her.
367
00:22:28,098 --> 00:22:29,933
Belinda Sutton won the case.
368
00:22:30,851 --> 00:22:32,102
By the late 1890s,
369
00:22:32,102 --> 00:22:35,689
Callie House, a formerly enslaved
washer woman from Tennessee,
370
00:22:35,689 --> 00:22:38,775
organized hundreds of thousands
of formerly enslaved people
371
00:22:38,775 --> 00:22:42,112
to push Congress to pass a bill
to provide slave pensions,
372
00:22:42,112 --> 00:22:44,281
just as it did for Union soldiers.
373
00:22:44,990 --> 00:22:46,950
The pensions would be paid
from the taxes
374
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:50,078
the federal government had collected
on slave-grown cotton.
375
00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:55,834
The audacity of a Black woman demanding
payment for the stolen labor of her people
376
00:22:55,834 --> 00:22:58,712
brought down the full wrath
of the federal government.
377
00:22:59,588 --> 00:23:01,882
Despite the fact
that there was no evidence,
378
00:23:01,882 --> 00:23:04,593
no witnesses, and no named victims,
379
00:23:04,593 --> 00:23:08,555
Callie House was convicted of mail fraud
and served a year in prison.
380
00:23:10,724 --> 00:23:13,644
The case for reparations
began with slavery,
381
00:23:13,644 --> 00:23:15,103
but it does not end there.
382
00:23:15,729 --> 00:23:18,232
After slavery ended,
Black Americans were subjected
383
00:23:18,232 --> 00:23:23,695
to nearly a century of violently enforced
economic and political subordination
384
00:23:23,695 --> 00:23:25,405
that prevented them from building wealth.
385
00:23:26,114 --> 00:23:30,494
Decade after decade,
the unpaid debt has continued to accrue.
386
00:23:37,876 --> 00:23:40,879
♪
387
00:23:43,382 --> 00:23:44,758
NIKOLE:
When the federal government
388
00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:47,052
burned and bulldozed
the people of Harris Neck
389
00:23:47,052 --> 00:23:49,137
out of their homes and businesses,
390
00:23:49,137 --> 00:23:51,515
many left rural Georgia all together.
391
00:23:51,515 --> 00:23:54,393
SINGERS:
♪ ...will serve until I die ♪
392
00:23:54,393 --> 00:23:59,773
♪ I am on the battlefield for my Lord ♪
393
00:23:59,773 --> 00:24:02,776
♪ Lord, there's a young man here with me ♪
394
00:24:02,776 --> 00:24:03,694
♪ He needs... ♪
395
00:24:03,694 --> 00:24:05,904
OLIVE:
A lot of people move away.
396
00:24:05,904 --> 00:24:11,451
Some went up north,
some went to Savannah, some went Florida.
397
00:24:11,451 --> 00:24:13,579
They went different places, mm-hmm.
398
00:24:14,162 --> 00:24:17,749
They took their family up north
where they was.
399
00:24:17,749 --> 00:24:18,750
Yeah.
400
00:24:19,543 --> 00:24:21,712
Yes. There.
401
00:24:25,007 --> 00:24:28,010
♪
402
00:24:28,802 --> 00:24:31,138
NIKOLE:
The torrent of Black migrants
out of the South
403
00:24:31,138 --> 00:24:33,307
would be called the Great Migration.
404
00:24:33,307 --> 00:24:36,351
And at its essence,
the historic movement was a quest
405
00:24:36,351 --> 00:24:38,979
to collect
on the unmet promises of the Civil War.
406
00:24:39,479 --> 00:24:43,775
A search for physical,
emotional, and economic freedom.
407
00:24:44,860 --> 00:24:48,488
A freedom that did not seem possible
in the apartheid South
408
00:24:48,488 --> 00:24:53,118
in places like the Whittington Plantation,
just outside of Greenwood, Mississippi,
409
00:24:53,118 --> 00:24:54,453
where my family is from.
410
00:24:57,456 --> 00:25:00,459
♪
411
00:25:13,013 --> 00:25:14,640
SYLVESTOR HOOVER:
My name is Sylvester Hoover,
412
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,269
and I was born in 1957
on the Whittington Plantation.
413
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:22,439
And I'm a deacon here
at Little Zion MB Church
414
00:25:22,439 --> 00:25:23,440
where we are today.
415
00:25:25,609 --> 00:25:29,029
If you was Black in the Mississippi Delta,
416
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:33,033
we was always feared that somebody going
to come and do something to us.
417
00:25:34,326 --> 00:25:39,706
If you didn't honor white peoples
back in those days, you could get lynched.
418
00:25:40,541 --> 00:25:42,334
You could get a year in jail.
419
00:25:42,334 --> 00:25:45,504
You could end up getting thrown
into the Tallahatchie River.
420
00:25:47,130 --> 00:25:50,050
NIKOLE:
At the heart of the brutal violence
of the Jim Crow South
421
00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:52,594
was political and economic control.
422
00:25:53,178 --> 00:25:55,180
Within years of emancipation,
423
00:25:55,180 --> 00:25:57,891
Black Americans
were largely barred from land ownership.
424
00:25:58,517 --> 00:26:02,271
As a result, they were forced
into another system of coerced labor
425
00:26:02,271 --> 00:26:03,689
known as sharecropping,
426
00:26:03,689 --> 00:26:06,400
where they worked
the land owned by white people
427
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,360
for an alleged share of the crops.
428
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,153
SYLVESTER:
We was, uh, sharecroppers.
429
00:26:10,153 --> 00:26:14,199
That means the boss man buy the seeds
430
00:26:14,199 --> 00:26:17,286
and we worked the land
to produce the cotton.
431
00:26:17,286 --> 00:26:20,622
But the only thing
that we never could make a profit.
432
00:26:20,622 --> 00:26:22,457
They never let us get out of debt
433
00:26:23,208 --> 00:26:26,253
because we got everything
from the commissary
434
00:26:26,253 --> 00:26:27,963
and we didn't keep any books
435
00:26:27,963 --> 00:26:32,718
and you couldn't dispute
whatever the person-- the boss man says.
436
00:26:32,718 --> 00:26:35,470
That mean you can't leave the plantation.
437
00:26:35,971 --> 00:26:37,514
It's just like you're a slave.
438
00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:44,062
NIKOLE:
Many Black Southerners
439
00:26:44,062 --> 00:26:46,565
were forced to sign
labor contracts with white landowners,
440
00:26:46,565 --> 00:26:49,026
and sharecropping trapped
hundreds of thousands,
441
00:26:49,026 --> 00:26:50,569
including my own family,
442
00:26:50,569 --> 00:26:52,029
in generational poverty.
443
00:26:54,281 --> 00:26:57,576
- And your father was born
on this plantation, right?
444
00:26:57,576 --> 00:27:00,037
- That's what I was told
by my Aunt Charlotte.
445
00:27:00,704 --> 00:27:03,707
She said,
somewhere out there in a little shack,
446
00:27:04,833 --> 00:27:07,085
my father was born...
- And so was I.
447
00:27:07,085 --> 00:27:08,545
- ...in the middle
of the cotton plantation.
448
00:27:08,545 --> 00:27:09,796
- During that time,
449
00:27:09,796 --> 00:27:12,466
I'd say, they probably had, I would say,
450
00:27:12,466 --> 00:27:15,427
2,000 people on this plantation.
- Wow.
451
00:27:15,427 --> 00:27:18,472
- And when I grew up here
in the '50s and '60s,
452
00:27:18,472 --> 00:27:21,475
we had 660 peoples on this plantation.
453
00:27:21,475 --> 00:27:22,976
NIKOLE:
Wow.
454
00:27:22,976 --> 00:27:25,270
My family sharecropped
on the Whittington Plantation
455
00:27:25,270 --> 00:27:26,980
for at least three generations.
456
00:27:27,523 --> 00:27:30,067
And both of my great-grandparents
are buried there.
457
00:27:31,109 --> 00:27:32,986
- We'll just have
to walk right around here.
458
00:27:32,986 --> 00:27:34,321
- Is some snakes over here?
459
00:27:34,321 --> 00:27:35,697
SYLVESTER:
Uh, no, they-- they over there.
460
00:27:35,697 --> 00:27:37,199
NIKOLE: How you know?
[Sylvester laughing]
461
00:27:37,199 --> 00:27:39,159
NIKOLE:
What you talking about?
I'ma let you go first.
462
00:27:40,077 --> 00:27:42,246
- See, this is Percy Paul.
- Mmm.
463
00:27:42,829 --> 00:27:44,456
SYLVESTER:
That's Percy Paul right there.
464
00:27:44,456 --> 00:27:46,875
1885, died 1972.
465
00:27:46,875 --> 00:27:48,335
And Percy Paul,
466
00:27:48,335 --> 00:27:53,173
he was the first person I know
to have a cab for Black people.
467
00:27:53,173 --> 00:27:56,218
And he would bring Black peoples back home
468
00:27:56,218 --> 00:27:58,095
when they go to town
and buy their grocery.
469
00:27:58,095 --> 00:28:00,472
He had two cars on his cab stand,
470
00:28:00,472 --> 00:28:04,476
and he would charge people money
to bring them back out here
471
00:28:04,476 --> 00:28:05,519
with their grocery.
- So you--
472
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:07,813
You taught me this,
because I never knew
473
00:28:07,813 --> 00:28:11,859
that my great-grandfather
owned a little cab company.
474
00:28:11,859 --> 00:28:13,527
- Yep, he did.
475
00:28:13,527 --> 00:28:15,821
NIKOLE: That's kind of amazing.
SYLVESTER: He did, and it was famous.
476
00:28:15,821 --> 00:28:17,489
It was famous 'cause, see,
477
00:28:17,489 --> 00:28:21,493
it was, uh, the Black Cab Company
and the Collin's Shoe Shop,
478
00:28:21,493 --> 00:28:24,037
them the only two buildings
on Johnson Street
479
00:28:24,037 --> 00:28:25,497
were ran by Black peoples.
480
00:28:26,123 --> 00:28:30,752
NIKOLE:
Wow. So when we drove
from Baptist Town across the river...
481
00:28:30,752 --> 00:28:32,087
SYLVESTER:
Right.
482
00:28:32,087 --> 00:28:36,216
NIKOLE:
...and then we were
in that splendid white part of town...
483
00:28:36,216 --> 00:28:37,217
SYLVESTER:
[chuckling] Yep.
484
00:28:37,217 --> 00:28:41,388
NIKOLE:
...and all of that wealth
was built by our ancestors...
485
00:28:41,388 --> 00:28:42,222
SYLVESTER:
Yep.
486
00:28:42,222 --> 00:28:43,765
NIKOLE: ...who don't share any of it.
SYLVESTER: Right.
487
00:28:43,765 --> 00:28:45,309
But, see, that's the way it were here.
488
00:28:45,309 --> 00:28:47,644
I mean, it was-- it was like that
489
00:28:47,644 --> 00:28:51,899
up until '71, '72, up in that area
490
00:28:51,899 --> 00:28:55,194
before we could see any change here,
491
00:28:55,194 --> 00:28:59,281
because change here in the Delta
comes slow.
492
00:29:04,786 --> 00:29:08,874
♪
493
00:29:16,131 --> 00:29:18,258
NIKOLE:
My grandmother, Arlena Paul Tillman,
494
00:29:18,258 --> 00:29:20,135
couldn't wait for that change.
495
00:29:20,135 --> 00:29:23,013
In the 1940s,
she packed up her few belongings,
496
00:29:23,013 --> 00:29:26,058
two kids in tow, and joined
the flood of Black Southerners
497
00:29:26,058 --> 00:29:28,185
hoping to find
the Northern promised land.
498
00:29:29,102 --> 00:29:30,687
Grandmamma, as we called her,
499
00:29:30,687 --> 00:29:33,732
got off the Illinois Central Railroad
in Waterloo, Iowa.
500
00:29:35,234 --> 00:29:37,152
But there would be no promised land
for her.
501
00:29:37,819 --> 00:29:40,614
She would instead find
both old prejudices and new ones,
502
00:29:40,614 --> 00:29:44,159
in federal policy designed
to keep Black people from building wealth.
503
00:29:45,702 --> 00:29:47,996
NEWSCASTER:
We struggled vainly to regain our bearings
504
00:29:47,996 --> 00:29:50,791
while depression,
fear, and failure stalked the nation.
505
00:29:50,791 --> 00:29:53,335
NIKOLE:
The Great Depression
toppled the US economy.
506
00:29:53,335 --> 00:29:55,629
At its height,
the nation's unemployment rate
507
00:29:55,629 --> 00:29:57,256
soared above 25%.
508
00:29:57,756 --> 00:29:59,842
The entire banking system had collapsed,
509
00:29:59,842 --> 00:30:03,262
factories were closing,
and families were losing homes.
510
00:30:03,846 --> 00:30:06,431
In an effort
to revive the spiraling economy,
511
00:30:06,431 --> 00:30:10,978
President Franklin D. Roosevelt
enacted the New Deal in 1933.
512
00:30:12,062 --> 00:30:15,315
- You saw
an expansion of government
513
00:30:15,315 --> 00:30:17,150
like we've never seen before.
514
00:30:17,734 --> 00:30:22,489
Many of the programs
that we know to be entitlements today
515
00:30:22,489 --> 00:30:25,701
were established during the New Deal.
516
00:30:25,701 --> 00:30:28,620
We were subsidizing, um, farmers,
517
00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:31,748
Social Security was established,
518
00:30:31,748 --> 00:30:35,669
unemployment insurance was established.
519
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:39,464
There was a swelling
of government interventions
520
00:30:40,048 --> 00:30:44,928
that actually had a significant impact,
a positive impact, on the economy.
521
00:30:47,264 --> 00:30:49,057
Now, that sounds great.
522
00:30:50,434 --> 00:30:54,313
But Black people
were largely shut out of the New Deal.
523
00:30:55,647 --> 00:30:57,733
NIKOLE:
In a compromise with white Southerners,
524
00:30:57,733 --> 00:31:00,944
Roosevelt agreed
to exclude farm workers and domestics
525
00:31:00,944 --> 00:31:03,197
out of critical social safety net programs
526
00:31:03,197 --> 00:31:06,200
like Social Security
and unemployment insurance.
527
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,412
That exclusion left out
60% of all Black workers.
528
00:31:10,829 --> 00:31:14,875
NEWSCASTER:
Basic problems, unemployment,
and the right to organize
529
00:31:14,875 --> 00:31:16,793
were still unsettled.
530
00:31:16,793 --> 00:31:19,630
NIKOLE:
The New Deal also empowered
American labor unions.
531
00:31:20,130 --> 00:31:23,425
The Wagner Act ensured workers
the right to organize and strike,
532
00:31:23,425 --> 00:31:26,053
and as a result,
working conditions improved
533
00:31:26,053 --> 00:31:27,221
and wages increased.
534
00:31:27,846 --> 00:31:31,099
But those unions
often barred Black workers from joining,
535
00:31:31,099 --> 00:31:33,685
keeping Black Americans
from many of the benefits
536
00:31:33,685 --> 00:31:35,229
white Americans had gained.
537
00:31:35,729 --> 00:31:38,565
- You know,
in many ways, the New Deal represented
538
00:31:38,565 --> 00:31:42,152
the first affirmative action policy
for white people.
539
00:31:42,819 --> 00:31:45,781
That-- it said,
"Hey, when you're suffering,
540
00:31:46,657 --> 00:31:49,034
"we're going to not only remedy that,
541
00:31:49,034 --> 00:31:53,121
we're gonna provide security
for you and your families for the future."
542
00:31:53,747 --> 00:31:56,458
Now a-- a significant portion of that,
543
00:31:56,458 --> 00:31:58,460
where it really showed up in the New Deal
544
00:31:58,460 --> 00:31:59,837
was housing policy.
545
00:32:01,213 --> 00:32:03,006
NIKOLE:
The Home Owners' Loan Corporation,
546
00:32:03,006 --> 00:32:05,717
a federal agency
founded under the New Deal,
547
00:32:05,717 --> 00:32:09,513
adopted segregated housing policies
from local municipalities
548
00:32:09,513 --> 00:32:12,724
and created a national system
that used color-coded maps
549
00:32:12,724 --> 00:32:15,143
to tell banks
which loans it would insure.
550
00:32:17,354 --> 00:32:20,941
The federal government marked
the most desirable areas for lending
in green.
551
00:32:20,941 --> 00:32:23,193
Blue stood for still desirable.
552
00:32:23,193 --> 00:32:25,654
Yellow indicated areas
that were declining.
553
00:32:25,654 --> 00:32:28,407
And a bright red marked
anywhere Black Americans lived
554
00:32:28,407 --> 00:32:31,577
or even lived nearby
as too hazardous to lend to.
555
00:32:32,619 --> 00:32:34,913
This practice,
created by the federal government
556
00:32:34,913 --> 00:32:38,750
and adopted by lenders
as well as cities, was called redlining.
557
00:32:40,252 --> 00:32:44,965
The federal government created these maps
in 239 cities across the country.
558
00:32:46,258 --> 00:32:50,888
ANDRE PERRY:
Redlining was not a evaluation tool
559
00:32:50,888 --> 00:32:53,974
based upon the quality of the housing.
560
00:32:53,974 --> 00:32:57,728
It was based upon the share
of Black people in the neighborhood.
561
00:32:58,312 --> 00:33:02,900
So there were roadblocks
at every step of the way,
562
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:07,696
preventing Black people, um,
from gaining wealth and opportunity
563
00:33:07,696 --> 00:33:10,365
and-- and-- and, more importantly,
from gaining power.
564
00:33:11,742 --> 00:33:13,327
NIKOLE:
98% of the loans
565
00:33:13,327 --> 00:33:15,621
the Federal Housing Administration insured
566
00:33:15,621 --> 00:33:19,917
from 1934 to 1962
went to white Americans,
567
00:33:19,917 --> 00:33:23,879
excluding nearly all Black Americans
out of the government program
568
00:33:23,879 --> 00:33:26,965
credited with building
the modern American middle class.
569
00:33:30,344 --> 00:33:32,888
43% of my hometown was redlined.
570
00:33:33,597 --> 00:33:36,391
And when my grandmother arrived
to Waterloo from Mississippi,
571
00:33:36,391 --> 00:33:39,144
she moved into the segregated
east side of the city
572
00:33:39,144 --> 00:33:42,231
and took the jobs that were most available
to Black women,
573
00:33:42,231 --> 00:33:44,942
whether they lived in the north
or the south:
574
00:33:44,942 --> 00:33:45,943
she cleaned.
575
00:33:47,194 --> 00:33:49,780
One of the things that Dad told me about,
576
00:33:49,780 --> 00:33:54,159
we used to talk about how the family
ended up migrating up to Waterloo,
577
00:33:54,159 --> 00:33:57,329
was that Grandmamma told him
when they were very little--
578
00:33:57,329 --> 00:33:58,455
- They wouldn't be picking cotton.
579
00:33:58,455 --> 00:34:00,541
NIKOLE: She decided
they weren't gonna pick cotton.
- Yeah.
580
00:34:00,541 --> 00:34:02,835
- That-- That was too hard of a life
for her kids.
581
00:34:02,835 --> 00:34:03,877
- She'd been through that.
582
00:34:03,877 --> 00:34:06,588
So she wouldn't--
wouldn't wanna send her kids
583
00:34:06,588 --> 00:34:08,924
through the same thing
she's been through.
584
00:34:08,924 --> 00:34:10,843
NIKOLE: I think about this a lot.
- Mmm.
585
00:34:10,843 --> 00:34:13,470
NIKOLE:
Uh, Grandmamma getting on that train...
586
00:34:13,470 --> 00:34:14,471
- Yeah, yeah.
587
00:34:14,471 --> 00:34:16,390
NIKOLE: ...leaving the South...
- Right.
588
00:34:16,390 --> 00:34:19,226
- ...cleaning white people's houses,
cleaning the courthouse.
589
00:34:19,226 --> 00:34:22,271
MONROE TILLMAN: Yeah, yeah.
- I remember, uh, me and Dad
would go down there
590
00:34:22,271 --> 00:34:25,357
and she'll be cleaning the front doors.
MONROE: Washing the windows. Yep.
591
00:34:25,357 --> 00:34:28,277
- And I remember how people would
walk past her like she was invisible,
592
00:34:28,277 --> 00:34:30,153
like she was just nothing.
- Yeah. That's how it is.
593
00:34:30,153 --> 00:34:32,155
That's how it was back here.
594
00:34:32,155 --> 00:34:33,407
NIKOLE:
Yeah, it's kind of amazing
595
00:34:33,407 --> 00:34:36,702
to think of--
of a woman with two young children
596
00:34:36,702 --> 00:34:39,830
to leave behind everything she knew,
597
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:42,583
because she was determined
to build a better life for her family.
598
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,464
Despite the odds, by the mid-1960s,
599
00:34:49,464 --> 00:34:52,009
my grandmamma's dream
of a better life for her children
600
00:34:52,009 --> 00:34:53,427
seemed to be coming true.
601
00:34:54,094 --> 00:34:57,014
Her oldest son, Nashuel Hannah,
had graduated college
602
00:34:57,014 --> 00:34:58,056
and with his help,
603
00:34:58,056 --> 00:35:01,393
she had managed to purchase
an old Victorian in East Waterloo.
604
00:35:03,478 --> 00:35:06,982
So let's talk about 330 Irving Street,
605
00:35:06,982 --> 00:35:09,651
which was the only house
I ever remember...
606
00:35:09,651 --> 00:35:12,112
MONROE: That's right, that's right.
NIKOLE: ...uh, Grandmamma livin' in.
607
00:35:12,112 --> 00:35:13,697
LARRY TILLMAN:
Everybody was secure there.
608
00:35:13,697 --> 00:35:15,616
As far as the house,
609
00:35:15,616 --> 00:35:18,952
that was the only thing she had.
MONROE: Yeah.
610
00:35:18,952 --> 00:35:20,120
LARRY:
It was the house.
611
00:35:21,622 --> 00:35:24,416
NIKOLE:
I mean, I remember she had
the garden in the back of the house,
612
00:35:24,416 --> 00:35:27,544
and then she had that plot of land over--
613
00:35:27,544 --> 00:35:29,713
- She fed us and the neighborhood.
614
00:35:30,631 --> 00:35:33,300
NIKOLE:
330 Irving Street was a worn Victorian
615
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:35,552
in a distressed, redlined neighborhood.
616
00:35:35,552 --> 00:35:38,305
But for me and my family,
it was home,
617
00:35:38,305 --> 00:35:40,349
a symbol of all my grandmamma,
618
00:35:40,349 --> 00:35:42,893
a Black woman born
into the apartheid South
619
00:35:42,893 --> 00:35:46,522
with just a fourth-grade education,
was able to accomplish.
620
00:35:51,735 --> 00:35:54,530
♪
621
00:36:04,414 --> 00:36:06,917
♪
622
00:36:12,089 --> 00:36:13,924
♪
623
00:36:15,592 --> 00:36:17,928
♪
624
00:36:19,847 --> 00:36:22,307
NIKOLE:
From the moment
we were brought here in bondage,
625
00:36:22,307 --> 00:36:25,435
Black life in this country
has been defined by hard work.
626
00:36:25,936 --> 00:36:28,021
And our labor
has generated success stories
627
00:36:28,021 --> 00:36:30,107
that deserve to be celebrated.
628
00:36:30,107 --> 00:36:32,526
But these cases camouflage the truth,
629
00:36:32,526 --> 00:36:37,030
that life for so many Black Americans
continues to be defined by struggle.
630
00:36:37,030 --> 00:36:40,826
Today, Black people remain
the most segregated group in the country,
631
00:36:40,826 --> 00:36:43,745
and are around five times
as likely as white Americans
632
00:36:43,745 --> 00:36:45,831
to live in high-poverty neighborhoods.
633
00:36:46,456 --> 00:36:50,252
And it's not just because Black Americans
are more likely to be poor.
634
00:36:50,252 --> 00:36:54,423
For example: Black families earning
$75,000 or more a year
635
00:36:54,423 --> 00:36:55,757
live in poorer neighborhoods
636
00:36:55,757 --> 00:36:59,094
than white Americans
earning less than $40,000 a year.
637
00:36:59,094 --> 00:37:03,140
And housing opportunities as a whole
are decreasing for Black Americans.
638
00:37:03,849 --> 00:37:07,394
In fact, while every other group
has experienced a rise in homeownership,
639
00:37:07,394 --> 00:37:10,564
Black homeownership is the lowest
it's been in a decade.
640
00:37:14,401 --> 00:37:18,697
Hello, Dr. Darity, thank you
for agreeing to talk to me today.
641
00:37:18,697 --> 00:37:20,782
- It's my pleasure.
NIKOLE: Um, it's been a long journey
642
00:37:20,782 --> 00:37:22,492
since the first time we met
643
00:37:22,492 --> 00:37:26,622
when I was just a-- a graduate student
here in-- in North Carolina.
644
00:37:26,622 --> 00:37:28,290
- Yeah. Yeah. It's been quite a while.
645
00:37:28,874 --> 00:37:30,459
NIKOLE:
It's been-- It's been a journey.
646
00:37:31,001 --> 00:37:33,712
So we live in a vastly unequal country.
647
00:37:34,213 --> 00:37:38,634
Um, all Americans are suffering
from the inequality in the United States.
648
00:37:38,634 --> 00:37:40,511
But when we look
at the racial wealth gap,
649
00:37:40,511 --> 00:37:42,012
it's-- it's a cavern.
650
00:37:42,012 --> 00:37:43,639
Talk about some of those statistics.
651
00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:46,725
- I think one of the most
telling statistics is the following:
652
00:37:47,142 --> 00:37:51,605
uh, Black Americans whose ancestors
were enslaved in the United States
653
00:37:52,356 --> 00:37:55,526
constitute about 12%
of the nation's population
654
00:37:56,109 --> 00:37:59,279
but have less than 2%
of the nation's wealth.
655
00:38:00,197 --> 00:38:02,032
NIKOLE:
In contrast, white Americans
656
00:38:02,032 --> 00:38:04,826
constitute
about 60% of the population
657
00:38:05,410 --> 00:38:07,996
but hold nearly 90%
of the nation's wealth.
658
00:38:09,665 --> 00:38:13,669
- And so, yes,
we have a maldistribution of wealth,
659
00:38:14,211 --> 00:38:17,548
uh, across the entire population,
660
00:38:17,548 --> 00:38:20,551
but there's
a particularly stark maldistribution
661
00:38:20,551 --> 00:38:23,929
that's associated with race
in the United States.
662
00:38:23,929 --> 00:38:27,140
[indistinct background speech]
663
00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:29,726
NIKOLE:
When the idea of reparations is presented
664
00:38:29,726 --> 00:38:32,020
as an instrument for equality
in this country,
665
00:38:32,020 --> 00:38:35,691
the work of Martin Luther King Jr.
and the larger Civil Rights Movement
666
00:38:35,691 --> 00:38:39,069
are cited as proof
that equality by law has been achieved
667
00:38:39,069 --> 00:38:40,779
and so nothing else is needed.
668
00:38:41,989 --> 00:38:45,951
But making school segregation illegal
did little to repay Black families
669
00:38:45,951 --> 00:38:48,829
for generations of being denied access
to education.
670
00:38:51,248 --> 00:38:53,375
Making unemployment discrimination illegal
671
00:38:53,375 --> 00:38:55,627
did not come with a check
for Black Americans
672
00:38:55,627 --> 00:38:57,171
for the jobs they were barred from,
673
00:38:57,171 --> 00:38:58,922
the promotions they didn't get.
674
00:39:01,550 --> 00:39:04,678
The Fair Housing Act
prohibited discrimination in housing
675
00:39:04,678 --> 00:39:07,973
but did not reset real estate values
in redlined communities.
676
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:14,104
In the end, civil rights legislation
merely guaranteed Black people
677
00:39:14,104 --> 00:39:15,856
rights they should have already had.
678
00:39:16,356 --> 00:39:19,526
It did nothing to correct the harm
that had been done,
679
00:39:19,526 --> 00:39:22,446
and had not a shred of impact
on the racial wealth gap
680
00:39:22,446 --> 00:39:25,532
that has largely remained unchanged
since King was murdered.
681
00:39:28,327 --> 00:39:32,998
So much of the way
that we talk about, um, the lack of wealth
682
00:39:32,998 --> 00:39:35,584
in Black communities and in Black families
683
00:39:35,584 --> 00:39:38,462
really centers
on this narrative of Black dysfunction.
684
00:39:38,462 --> 00:39:41,215
So I'm just going to say
each of these arguments,
685
00:39:41,215 --> 00:39:44,176
and then I want you
to tell me what is the reality.
686
00:39:44,176 --> 00:39:47,638
Um, does marriage close
the racial wealth gap for Black Americans?
687
00:39:48,055 --> 00:39:49,389
- Apparently not.
688
00:39:49,389 --> 00:39:53,644
Uh, we know now
that the average white family
689
00:39:53,644 --> 00:39:55,229
that's a single-parent family
690
00:39:55,729 --> 00:39:59,399
has about two times the wealth
of the average Black family
691
00:39:59,399 --> 00:40:00,609
that has two parents.
692
00:40:00,609 --> 00:40:02,110
- So cross that off.
DR. WILLIAM DARITY: Yeah.
693
00:40:02,110 --> 00:40:06,949
- Um, does, uh, going to college close
the racial wealth gap for Black Americans?
694
00:40:06,949 --> 00:40:09,201
- Well, I'm definitely a fan
of going to college...
695
00:40:09,201 --> 00:40:11,578
NIKOLE: As am I.
- ...but it doesn't close
the racial wealth gap.
696
00:40:11,578 --> 00:40:14,915
Uh, a Black head of household
with a college degree
697
00:40:15,666 --> 00:40:19,211
has two-thirds of the net worth
of a white head of household
698
00:40:19,211 --> 00:40:20,504
who never finished high school.
699
00:40:21,004 --> 00:40:22,506
- Cross that off.
WILLIAM: Yeah.
700
00:40:22,506 --> 00:40:23,799
NIKOLE:
Uh, what about savings?
701
00:40:23,799 --> 00:40:26,677
Black people should just stop
buying Jordans and save their money.
702
00:40:26,677 --> 00:40:27,886
WILLIAM: Yeah.
- And if they did that,
703
00:40:27,886 --> 00:40:30,722
if they saved all their money
and, and were better savers,
704
00:40:30,722 --> 00:40:32,057
they could close
the racial wealth gap.
705
00:40:32,057 --> 00:40:35,352
- Right, so if-- if Black people
weren't so attracted to bling,
706
00:40:35,352 --> 00:40:37,521
we'd eliminate the racial wealth gap.
707
00:40:37,521 --> 00:40:40,524
Well, the evidence suggests
that that's not true either.
708
00:40:41,024 --> 00:40:43,110
Uh, if anything,
709
00:40:43,110 --> 00:40:47,739
uh, if we were to take into account
the income of the household,
710
00:40:47,739 --> 00:40:52,035
Black households
save as much as white households.
711
00:40:52,035 --> 00:40:55,205
And in fact, in some income categories,
712
00:40:55,205 --> 00:40:58,333
Black households
actually have a higher savings rate
713
00:40:58,333 --> 00:40:59,668
than white households.
714
00:40:59,668 --> 00:41:04,464
- So if the actual facts
don't back up this notion
715
00:41:04,464 --> 00:41:07,634
that Black people just need
to change our behavior,
716
00:41:07,634 --> 00:41:11,805
and we could eliminate, um, the wealth gap
between Black and white Americans,
717
00:41:11,805 --> 00:41:14,141
why are these myths so persistent?
718
00:41:14,725 --> 00:41:17,477
- Well, I think
part of it is, uh, ignorance.
719
00:41:18,103 --> 00:41:21,773
Uh, I think that people have
misperceptions about a number of things
720
00:41:21,773 --> 00:41:26,069
and, uh, some of these misperceptions
are-- are about American history.
721
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:28,363
Similarly,
I think people have misperceptions
722
00:41:28,363 --> 00:41:31,283
about the sources
of the racial wealth gap.
723
00:41:33,368 --> 00:41:35,913
NIKOLE:
Lack of wealth in Black families
too often means
724
00:41:35,913 --> 00:41:38,832
that the hard-earned successes
of one generation
725
00:41:38,832 --> 00:41:40,209
don't translate to the next.
726
00:41:42,503 --> 00:41:43,879
There's still a big family rift
727
00:41:43,879 --> 00:41:46,924
over what happened to Grandmamma's house
after she died,
728
00:41:46,924 --> 00:41:49,259
but in the end,
there wasn't enough money
729
00:41:49,259 --> 00:41:51,803
to live, send kids to college,
and keep it up.
730
00:41:53,972 --> 00:41:56,183
Over the years, it fell into disrepair,
731
00:41:56,183 --> 00:41:58,977
and eventually,
the property was seized by the city
732
00:41:58,977 --> 00:42:02,022
and a lifetime of memories
bulldozed away.
733
00:42:04,399 --> 00:42:07,528
All of the hopes and dreams
my grandmamma carried on that train
734
00:42:07,528 --> 00:42:09,530
from Mississippi to Waterloo,
735
00:42:09,530 --> 00:42:12,950
couldn't contend with the harsh
racial realities of this country.
736
00:42:13,534 --> 00:42:16,328
A defining feature
of Black life in America
737
00:42:16,328 --> 00:42:19,248
is that there seldom ever exists
a margin for error.
738
00:42:20,207 --> 00:42:22,751
And there's no amount
of work or ambition
739
00:42:22,751 --> 00:42:24,253
that can make up for the chasm
740
00:42:24,253 --> 00:42:26,505
that is the racial wealth gap
in this country.
741
00:42:34,179 --> 00:42:37,182
[church bell tolling]
742
00:42:40,102 --> 00:42:42,479
[reverend singing]
743
00:42:43,272 --> 00:42:46,024
- ♪ And then he will direct your path ♪
744
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:49,319
♪ Ain't the Lord all right? ♪
745
00:42:49,987 --> 00:42:53,240
♪ We thank God this morning ♪
746
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:55,993
♪ And may he never ♪
747
00:42:56,743 --> 00:42:58,537
♪ Did you hear me, church? ♪
748
00:42:59,454 --> 00:43:01,582
NIKOLE:
Harris Neck's first African Baptist Church
749
00:43:01,582 --> 00:43:03,584
was the only building to be salvaged
750
00:43:03,584 --> 00:43:06,879
when the federal government
razed the community in 1942.
751
00:43:16,263 --> 00:43:19,683
♪
752
00:43:19,683 --> 00:43:22,186
♪
753
00:43:22,936 --> 00:43:25,814
NIKOLE:
The community was able to dismantle
and rebuild the church
754
00:43:25,814 --> 00:43:27,274
to where it stands today.
755
00:43:27,274 --> 00:43:29,943
And the current reverend,
Edgar Timmons Jr.,
756
00:43:29,943 --> 00:43:32,237
is the grandson of the man who saved it.
757
00:43:35,782 --> 00:43:40,037
REV. EDGAR TIMMONS JR.:
My family have been
in this area over 125 years.
758
00:43:40,913 --> 00:43:45,083
It started with our grandfather,
uh, William Timmons.
759
00:43:45,751 --> 00:43:50,839
He built and operated
the oyster factory for years.
760
00:43:50,839 --> 00:43:56,845
For years, employing from 35 to 48,
um, members of the community
761
00:43:56,845 --> 00:43:58,180
during the oyster season.
762
00:43:59,723 --> 00:44:01,475
NIKOLE:
In the early 1970s,
763
00:44:01,475 --> 00:44:05,312
Reverend Timmons, Wilson Moran,
and other descendants of Harris Neck
764
00:44:05,312 --> 00:44:07,272
began to meet
to discuss their birthright.
765
00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:10,192
EDGAR:
We all got together, talked about it.
766
00:44:10,192 --> 00:44:13,278
Wait a minute, you know, we went overseas,
767
00:44:13,278 --> 00:44:14,613
putting our life on the line,
768
00:44:14,613 --> 00:44:17,783
serving our country
with pride and-- and honor.
769
00:44:18,534 --> 00:44:22,579
And, um, here was our homeland,
our heritage, locked behind a fence.
770
00:44:23,205 --> 00:44:28,168
So Elliot Campbell, Chris McIntosh,
Wilson Moran, and my-- myself,
771
00:44:28,919 --> 00:44:30,254
we called a meeting.
772
00:44:31,088 --> 00:44:32,422
- So this is 1971.
773
00:44:32,422 --> 00:44:36,009
That's when
the Harris Neck movement started.
774
00:44:36,510 --> 00:44:40,973
So we started, uh, talking
to anybody who would hear us,
775
00:44:40,973 --> 00:44:42,641
that we want our land back.
776
00:44:43,392 --> 00:44:47,229
NIKOLE:
They formed a group called
The People Organized for Equal Rights,
777
00:44:47,229 --> 00:44:50,440
and by 1979,
they made a bold decision.
778
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:56,196
- We met and decided
that it was time to move back home.
779
00:44:57,406 --> 00:44:59,366
And whatever happened, it happened.
780
00:45:00,325 --> 00:45:02,828
NEWSCASTER:
More than a dozen people
came to Harris Neck,
781
00:45:02,828 --> 00:45:05,080
to land, they said,
the government took from them
782
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,708
during World War II to build an airstrip.
783
00:45:08,250 --> 00:45:11,545
They said the government promised
to return the land they once farmed,
784
00:45:11,545 --> 00:45:14,590
but instead, created a wildlife refuge.
785
00:45:14,590 --> 00:45:17,801
So the families came back
to take what they claim was theirs.
786
00:45:20,137 --> 00:45:22,222
EDGAR:
One of the greatest days of my life.
787
00:45:22,222 --> 00:45:24,433
We gonna stay here until we die!
WOMAN: Amen.
788
00:45:24,433 --> 00:45:25,893
- This is ours.
WOMAN: Amen.
789
00:45:25,893 --> 00:45:26,894
- This is my testimony.
790
00:45:26,894 --> 00:45:30,772
♪ Jesus, he will never... ♪
791
00:45:31,690 --> 00:45:33,400
We were asking
for the return of the property
792
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,989
and reparation of $50 million
to re-establish our-- our community.
793
00:45:39,573 --> 00:45:42,326
Really, you know, feeling very justified
794
00:45:42,951 --> 00:45:44,912
because the community was destroyed,
795
00:45:44,912 --> 00:45:46,747
people were displaced,
796
00:45:46,747 --> 00:45:48,832
hearts and lives were destroyed.
797
00:45:50,792 --> 00:45:52,211
WILSON:
After a week or so,
798
00:45:52,211 --> 00:45:54,713
uh, the federal government said
"We got enough of this."
799
00:45:55,255 --> 00:45:57,049
So they told us that we had to leave
800
00:45:57,716 --> 00:45:59,593
or face jail.
801
00:45:59,593 --> 00:46:00,844
EDGAR:
We said, "Well,
802
00:46:02,012 --> 00:46:05,849
"um, if that's the case,
then we would just be arrested,"
803
00:46:05,849 --> 00:46:07,184
because we were not going to leave.
804
00:46:07,184 --> 00:46:09,061
We were home,
you know, where we belonged.
805
00:46:09,728 --> 00:46:11,522
Our hearts were racing.
806
00:46:11,522 --> 00:46:12,981
I'd never been to jail in my life.
807
00:46:17,569 --> 00:46:20,822
NIKOLE:
Members of the group
were sentenced to 30 days in jail.
808
00:46:20,822 --> 00:46:24,952
Undeterred, in 1980, they filed a lawsuit
against the federal government.
809
00:46:25,577 --> 00:46:28,539
But the judge ruled that
the statute of limitations had run out
810
00:46:28,539 --> 00:46:30,791
and that because
the federal government owned the land,
811
00:46:30,791 --> 00:46:33,085
only an act of Congress
could give it back.
812
00:46:33,836 --> 00:46:34,795
In total,
813
00:46:34,795 --> 00:46:39,007
the People Organized for Equal Rights
introduced four bills to Congress
814
00:46:39,007 --> 00:46:40,425
but all died in committee.
815
00:46:45,764 --> 00:46:47,140
By the mid-1980s,
816
00:46:47,140 --> 00:46:50,894
the organization had run out of money
and the fight came to a standstill.
817
00:46:53,313 --> 00:46:56,316
♪
818
00:46:58,819 --> 00:47:01,280
- Just imagine if-- if, um,
819
00:47:01,905 --> 00:47:04,950
if the government never took the property,
820
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:06,952
um, where we would have been now.
821
00:47:06,952 --> 00:47:09,079
Our grandfather's oyster factory
would've been--
822
00:47:09,079 --> 00:47:10,372
would've been handed down to us.
823
00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:13,208
Yes, our family
is still in the oyster business.
824
00:47:13,208 --> 00:47:16,962
But what Granddaddy had
for us to take off with,
825
00:47:16,962 --> 00:47:19,214
once he handed it down to us,
826
00:47:19,214 --> 00:47:21,091
uh, is no--
there's no comparison.
827
00:47:21,091 --> 00:47:24,011
Comparison, none. None.
828
00:47:24,011 --> 00:47:25,846
So, um...
829
00:47:27,848 --> 00:47:33,395
we-- we feel like there
should be some reparation, um, granted.
830
00:47:33,395 --> 00:47:34,938
It's only the right thing to do.
831
00:47:36,315 --> 00:47:40,527
NIKOLE:
The modern-day fight
for reparations is often traced to 1987
832
00:47:40,527 --> 00:47:44,281
with the formation
of the National Coalition of Blacks
for Reparations in America
833
00:47:44,281 --> 00:47:45,616
or N'COBRA.
834
00:47:46,658 --> 00:47:49,620
- Reparations is an opportunity for us
835
00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:51,955
to decide as a people what is required
836
00:47:53,207 --> 00:47:57,044
to remove the impediments
that are the result of slavery.
837
00:47:59,129 --> 00:48:02,216
REP. JOHN CONYERS:
The whole concept of reparations,
838
00:48:02,883 --> 00:48:06,094
we get into a non-dialogue.
839
00:48:06,094 --> 00:48:07,262
Silence.
840
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:08,931
NIKOLE:
In 1989,
841
00:48:08,931 --> 00:48:13,477
the late representative John Conyers
of Michigan introduced Bill HR-40,
842
00:48:13,477 --> 00:48:16,647
calling for a federal committee
to study the case for reparations
843
00:48:16,647 --> 00:48:18,815
for Black Americans
descended from slavery.
844
00:48:19,566 --> 00:48:23,487
Conyers would go on to introduce the bill
every year for the next 30 years
845
00:48:23,487 --> 00:48:25,864
until his retirement in 2018.
846
00:48:26,532 --> 00:48:30,035
He died in 2019 without the bill
ever making it out of committee.
847
00:48:30,702 --> 00:48:33,580
Still, the call for reparations remains,
848
00:48:33,580 --> 00:48:36,875
and captured the national spotlight
in 2021
849
00:48:36,875 --> 00:48:38,877
when the last survivors
of the Tulsa massacre
850
00:48:38,877 --> 00:48:40,379
testified in Congress.
851
00:48:41,296 --> 00:48:45,259
- I still see Black businesses
being burned,
852
00:48:45,259 --> 00:48:48,387
I still hear airplanes flying overhead.
853
00:48:49,012 --> 00:48:50,848
I hear the screams.
854
00:48:50,848 --> 00:48:53,851
I have lived through the massacre
every day.
855
00:48:54,351 --> 00:48:57,813
Our country may forget this history,
but I cannot.
856
00:49:00,148 --> 00:49:02,484
NIKOLE:
The testimony symbolized the core truth
857
00:49:02,484 --> 00:49:05,320
that justice has not been realized
in this country.
858
00:49:07,573 --> 00:49:12,411
We all know people who have done,
quote-unquote, "everything right."
859
00:49:12,411 --> 00:49:16,623
People who have done all of the things
that society has said they should do,
860
00:49:16,623 --> 00:49:18,458
they still have no wealth.
861
00:49:18,458 --> 00:49:22,588
This is the reality
of why you are calling for reparations.
862
00:49:22,588 --> 00:49:28,010
- Because that's the only significant way
that we can close the racial wealth gap.
863
00:49:28,010 --> 00:49:30,470
- So the extraction of generational wealth
864
00:49:31,221 --> 00:49:34,308
has to be remedied
by a transfer of wealth.
865
00:49:34,308 --> 00:49:37,603
- The federal government's policies
created the racial wealth gap.
866
00:49:38,312 --> 00:49:40,898
And so the federal government
has an obligation
867
00:49:40,898 --> 00:49:44,067
to take the steps
to eliminate the racial wealth gap.
868
00:49:44,067 --> 00:49:45,986
- Why is this controversial?
869
00:49:45,986 --> 00:49:50,657
It just seems like it makes
both moral sense but also logical sense.
870
00:49:51,158 --> 00:49:55,454
- I think
that there is a historic resistance
871
00:49:55,454 --> 00:50:00,083
to any set of policies
that would give Black Americans
872
00:50:00,083 --> 00:50:02,544
the conditions for full citizenship.
- Mm-hmm.
873
00:50:03,212 --> 00:50:07,716
- And this resistance is a consequence
of the legacy of the Confederacy.
874
00:50:08,425 --> 00:50:13,972
- So if we base the case for reparations
off of the racial wealth gap,
875
00:50:15,516 --> 00:50:17,935
what is the total amount
that would be owed?
876
00:50:18,435 --> 00:50:21,396
- If we use the racial wealth gap
as our standard,
877
00:50:21,396 --> 00:50:25,442
each individual
should receive about $350,000.
878
00:50:25,442 --> 00:50:31,198
Since there are 40 million
Black American descendants of US slavery
879
00:50:31,198 --> 00:50:35,827
out of a total of 45 million Black people
in the United States,
880
00:50:35,827 --> 00:50:40,374
that would mean that the-- the total bill
would be approximately $14 trillion now.
881
00:50:41,250 --> 00:50:42,668
NIKOLE: Okay.
WILLIAM: Yeah.
882
00:50:43,669 --> 00:50:45,295
- That's a big number.
883
00:50:45,295 --> 00:50:46,839
- Yeah.
There're-- There're bigger numbers.
884
00:50:46,839 --> 00:50:47,881
- Is there?
- Yeah.
885
00:50:47,881 --> 00:50:49,550
- It's a big debt though.
- It is a big debt.
886
00:50:49,550 --> 00:50:52,970
But, uh, you know,
I've seen estimates of the bill
887
00:50:52,970 --> 00:50:57,474
that have run
as high as 6.2 quadrillion dollars.
888
00:50:58,267 --> 00:51:00,644
So... you know?
889
00:51:00,644 --> 00:51:02,187
- Yeah, I do think it's helpful to think--
890
00:51:02,187 --> 00:51:06,108
- Fourteen trillion might be letting,
you know, America off a little bit easy.
891
00:51:06,859 --> 00:51:09,987
- I mean, uh, pretty much
any number you put on it
892
00:51:09,987 --> 00:51:12,614
would be letting America off easy,
probably.
893
00:51:12,614 --> 00:51:15,617
♪
894
00:51:17,619 --> 00:51:20,622
Despite the lack of political support
for reparations,
895
00:51:20,622 --> 00:51:22,583
there has been some change
in public sentiment
896
00:51:22,583 --> 00:51:23,834
over the last few decades.
897
00:51:24,877 --> 00:51:27,629
ANDRE:
The activity, really, that's promising
898
00:51:27,629 --> 00:51:31,675
is these efforts at local reparations
for cities.
899
00:51:31,675 --> 00:51:35,512
What we're seeing in Evanston,
Asheville, Maryland and others
900
00:51:35,512 --> 00:51:37,139
are saying, "You know what?
901
00:51:37,139 --> 00:51:40,058
"We had a role in discriminating
against Black people.
902
00:51:40,058 --> 00:51:42,394
We're gonna offer
some form of reparations."
903
00:51:42,394 --> 00:51:46,398
- The Chicago suburb is set to become
the first city in America
904
00:51:46,398 --> 00:51:49,693
to fund reparations
for some of its Black residents.
905
00:51:49,693 --> 00:51:52,154
REPORTER:
A prime piece
of Manhattan Beach real estate
906
00:51:52,154 --> 00:51:56,283
was taken from a Black family
by the City of Manhattan Beach.
907
00:51:56,283 --> 00:52:00,996
Los Angeles County gave the property
back to their descendants.
908
00:52:00,996 --> 00:52:01,997
- It's surreal.
909
00:52:01,997 --> 00:52:05,334
And it's almost like being transported
to the other side of the known universe.
910
00:52:05,334 --> 00:52:09,004
- Now those efforts
will never be comparable
911
00:52:09,004 --> 00:52:13,467
to the federal government,
um, redressing the injuries
912
00:52:13,467 --> 00:52:17,429
caused by slavery and Jim Crow racism
and housing discrimination.
913
00:52:18,430 --> 00:52:21,934
But we can create a reparative culture
914
00:52:22,851 --> 00:52:25,771
by creating local reparations programs
915
00:52:25,771 --> 00:52:28,357
that work their way up
to the federal government.
916
00:52:29,566 --> 00:52:31,443
NIKOLE:
Leading up to the 2020 election,
917
00:52:31,443 --> 00:52:34,446
reparations became
a talking point on the campaign trail.
918
00:52:35,113 --> 00:52:36,615
REPORTER:
Where do you stand
on the issue of reparations?
919
00:52:36,615 --> 00:52:38,617
- It is the-- It is the original sin.
920
00:52:38,617 --> 00:52:42,496
The truth of the matter is that
I, from the time I've gotten involved,
921
00:52:42,496 --> 00:52:43,622
I've been trying to do things
922
00:52:43,622 --> 00:52:46,875
that deal with the systemic racism
that still exists.
923
00:52:47,459 --> 00:52:49,878
- When Biden was on the campaign trail,
924
00:52:49,878 --> 00:52:51,672
and he was struggling,
925
00:52:51,672 --> 00:52:56,468
it was Black issues
that allowed him to rise up.
926
00:52:57,177 --> 00:53:00,681
JOE BIDEN:
And especially those moments
where this campaign was at its lowest ebb,
927
00:53:00,681 --> 00:53:04,101
the African-American community
stood up again for me!
928
00:53:04,101 --> 00:53:05,894
[crowd cheering]
929
00:53:05,894 --> 00:53:09,857
- You've always had my back,
and I'll have yours.
930
00:53:09,857 --> 00:53:14,152
- Now you start to see them
start to go by the wayside.
931
00:53:14,152 --> 00:53:18,365
These issues of wealth equality
are central
932
00:53:19,074 --> 00:53:21,743
to white politicians getting elected.
933
00:53:21,743 --> 00:53:26,707
It should be central
in the legislative packages they deliver.
934
00:53:30,002 --> 00:53:32,379
NIKOLE:
The Biden Administration
has publicly supported
935
00:53:32,379 --> 00:53:33,922
the study of reparations,
936
00:53:33,922 --> 00:53:37,009
but has yet to make
any significant movement beyond that.
937
00:53:37,926 --> 00:53:40,804
And neither President Biden
nor Vice President Harris
938
00:53:40,804 --> 00:53:42,264
were willing to sit down with us.
939
00:53:44,266 --> 00:53:49,938
In 2021, HR-40, now led by Representative
Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas,
940
00:53:49,938 --> 00:53:51,732
finally made it out of committee.
941
00:53:51,732 --> 00:53:54,651
But whenever the issue of reparations
bubbles to the surface,
942
00:53:54,651 --> 00:53:57,613
Republicans in power
have made it clear where they stand.
943
00:53:58,197 --> 00:54:02,451
- Yeah, I-- I don't think reparations
for something that happened 150 years ago,
944
00:54:02,451 --> 00:54:06,163
for whom none of us currently living
are responsible, is a good idea.
945
00:54:06,163 --> 00:54:10,042
- I just, uh, I just think [clears throat]
we're so far removed from the event.
946
00:54:10,042 --> 00:54:13,670
- I don't think any-- any person,
Black or white,
947
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:19,676
is responsible for what someone else,
Black or white, did 150 years ago.
948
00:54:20,552 --> 00:54:23,764
And, uh, I think
most Americans feel the same way I do.
949
00:54:24,264 --> 00:54:26,600
NIKOLE:
And while some politicians
are eager to shut down
950
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,977
any conversation concerning reparations,
951
00:54:28,977 --> 00:54:30,395
they are not as willing to discuss
952
00:54:30,395 --> 00:54:32,731
how their own families benefited
from slavery.
953
00:54:35,359 --> 00:54:39,071
This viewpoint ignores
that debt is inherited, just like wealth,
954
00:54:39,071 --> 00:54:42,699
and also that reparations
is not just about slavery,
955
00:54:42,699 --> 00:54:45,786
but about decades of government-backed
legal apartheid
956
00:54:45,786 --> 00:54:48,205
deployed against
the descendants of the enslaved.
957
00:54:49,289 --> 00:54:52,876
What are the odds
that we will ever see a reparations bill
958
00:54:52,876 --> 00:54:54,169
or, um...
959
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,464
law passed that allows for this to happen?
960
00:54:57,464 --> 00:55:01,677
- I have no idea
when or if this will actually happen.
961
00:55:01,677 --> 00:55:04,596
Approximately 30 years ago,
962
00:55:05,264 --> 00:55:07,891
when I was a reparations skeptic
963
00:55:07,891 --> 00:55:11,186
and-- and had my, uh,
road to Damascus moment
964
00:55:11,770 --> 00:55:14,481
and became a reparations advocate,
965
00:55:14,481 --> 00:55:20,487
I decided that I would do that
regardless of how low the odds were,
966
00:55:20,487 --> 00:55:24,783
because this is absolutely
the right thing to do.
967
00:55:24,783 --> 00:55:30,080
And it's the only way in which we could
eliminate this enormous racial wealth gap.
968
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,248
- I know you hear this
969
00:55:31,248 --> 00:55:33,166
where white Americans are saying,
970
00:55:33,166 --> 00:55:35,544
"Why should we have to pay reparations?"
971
00:55:35,544 --> 00:55:37,379
And they're taking
this idea of reparations
972
00:55:37,379 --> 00:55:41,258
as, uh, an individual debt
that white Americans are having to pay,
973
00:55:41,258 --> 00:55:42,593
but that's not the case.
974
00:55:42,593 --> 00:55:45,470
- The federal government
would pay the reparations bill.
975
00:55:45,470 --> 00:55:48,932
So it's not a matter of taking
a dollar out of a white person's pocket
976
00:55:48,932 --> 00:55:51,351
and putting it
into a Black person's pocket.
977
00:55:51,351 --> 00:55:53,312
It's a matter
of the federal government financing it
978
00:55:53,312 --> 00:55:58,609
in the same way that it financed, uh,
the expenditures for the stimulus package
979
00:55:58,609 --> 00:56:00,777
for, uh, the great recession
980
00:56:00,777 --> 00:56:05,657
and the way in which it has financed
the American CARES Act
981
00:56:05,657 --> 00:56:07,659
and the American Rescue Plan,
982
00:56:07,659 --> 00:56:11,163
which is essentially to spend the money
983
00:56:11,163 --> 00:56:13,790
but without raising taxes.
984
00:56:14,291 --> 00:56:17,377
- I mean, if anything, uh,
the Black experience teaches you,
985
00:56:17,377 --> 00:56:18,754
is you have to have room to believe
986
00:56:18,754 --> 00:56:21,423
that the impossible
can be made manifest, right?
987
00:56:21,423 --> 00:56:24,676
- Absolutely. I mean, if-- if it was 1819,
988
00:56:25,427 --> 00:56:30,599
uh, we probably would think that
the odds of slavery ever coming to an end
989
00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:32,267
were extremely low,
990
00:56:32,267 --> 00:56:34,228
but does that mean
we shouldn't have fought
991
00:56:34,228 --> 00:56:36,563
to try to end slavery?
992
00:56:36,897 --> 00:56:40,609
And so, similarly, I think
reparations is the right thing.
993
00:56:40,609 --> 00:56:44,404
It-- It's a debt
that's overdue for 156 years.
994
00:56:44,404 --> 00:56:45,864
It needs to be paid.
995
00:56:45,864 --> 00:56:47,950
And we need to struggle to have it happen.
996
00:56:51,411 --> 00:56:53,705
NIKOLE:
Generation after generation,
997
00:56:53,705 --> 00:56:56,708
our elders pass on
without knowing the justice
998
00:56:56,708 --> 00:56:59,086
their elders hoped
to see in their lifetime.
999
00:56:59,795 --> 00:57:03,257
Ms. Olive Smith,
and Ms. Mary Moran, Wilson's mother,
1000
00:57:03,257 --> 00:57:06,385
were two of the last surviving members
of Harris Neck,
1001
00:57:06,385 --> 00:57:09,179
and they didn't live long enough
to see justice served.
1002
00:57:09,847 --> 00:57:12,474
Both died
during the making of this documentary.
1003
00:57:13,225 --> 00:57:14,560
And while it's been a decade
1004
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,647
since Ms. Anna Overstreet,
Jadon Relaford's grandmother, passed,
1005
00:57:18,647 --> 00:57:20,732
what she suffered is still with him.
1006
00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:24,403
JADON:
She grew up her whole life
living with that,
1007
00:57:24,403 --> 00:57:26,071
with that pain, with that hurt.
1008
00:57:27,406 --> 00:57:30,367
The part that really, really bothers me
1009
00:57:30,367 --> 00:57:35,622
is that she died
not having that land back.
1010
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,668
I'm happy that,
you know, she's buried there,
1011
00:57:39,668 --> 00:57:41,170
but I would've been more happy
1012
00:57:41,170 --> 00:57:43,922
if she was able to have that land
when she was still alive.
1013
00:57:45,716 --> 00:57:47,843
When I think of restitution,
1014
00:57:47,843 --> 00:57:51,013
first thing that comes to my mind,
generally, is correction.
1015
00:57:51,597 --> 00:57:52,931
Uh, righting a wrong,
1016
00:57:54,099 --> 00:57:57,352
as it relates
to what happened in Harris Neck.
1017
00:57:58,562 --> 00:58:02,316
What it looks like for me
is returning the land.
1018
00:58:07,863 --> 00:58:10,032
NIKOLE:
The fight has continued in Harris Neck,
1019
00:58:10,032 --> 00:58:12,701
but it will still take
an act of Congress to return the land.
1020
00:58:13,202 --> 00:58:15,370
And so far,
there has been very little movement.
1021
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,588
How often do you come out here?
1022
00:58:24,588 --> 00:58:27,841
WILSON:
Well, uh, maybe once a month,
1023
00:58:27,841 --> 00:58:30,344
I come here to talk to my ancestors,
1024
00:58:30,344 --> 00:58:33,013
and let them know that we are still here
and we're still fighting
1025
00:58:33,013 --> 00:58:34,640
and we have not given up hope.
1026
00:58:36,183 --> 00:58:38,727
And long as there's life,
we're gonna have hope.
1027
00:58:41,688 --> 00:58:43,315
NIKOLE:
Do you think they will be proud of you?
1028
00:58:44,650 --> 00:58:46,109
WILSON:
Of course. They already are.
1029
00:58:48,278 --> 00:58:49,613
- And how does that make you feel?
1030
00:58:53,283 --> 00:58:54,785
- Just about what I feel now.
1031
00:58:58,038 --> 00:58:59,540
And I can't put that into words.
1032
00:59:05,295 --> 00:59:08,298
♪
1033
00:59:11,969 --> 00:59:15,013
♪
1034
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,269
NIKOLE:
It might be hard to imagine
1035
00:59:20,269 --> 00:59:22,521
what Black life
would be like in this country
1036
00:59:22,521 --> 00:59:24,273
if we were to close the racial wealth gap.
1037
00:59:24,815 --> 00:59:26,108
But everywhere we look,
1038
00:59:26,108 --> 00:59:29,778
there are indicators
of how fragile things can be if we do not.
1039
00:59:32,531 --> 00:59:35,450
Black Americans,
along with indigenous people,
1040
00:59:35,450 --> 00:59:37,411
remain the most neglected beneficiaries
1041
00:59:37,411 --> 00:59:40,289
of the America
that would not exist without us.
1042
00:59:41,582 --> 00:59:45,127
This unacknowledged debt,
all of it, is still accruing.
1043
00:59:45,627 --> 00:59:47,462
And it will continue to accrue
1044
00:59:47,462 --> 00:59:50,549
until we, as a society,
decide to take action.
1045
00:59:52,092 --> 00:59:55,387
We cannot change the hypocrisy
upon which we were founded.
1046
00:59:55,387 --> 00:59:58,182
We cannot make up
for all of the lives lost
1047
00:59:58,182 --> 00:59:59,391
and dreams snatched,
1048
00:59:59,391 --> 01:00:01,268
for all the suffering endured.
1049
01:00:01,894 --> 01:00:03,854
But we can atone for it.
1050
01:00:03,854 --> 01:00:06,315
We can acknowledge the crime.
1051
01:00:11,862 --> 01:00:14,198
It is time for this country
to pay the debt
1052
01:00:14,198 --> 01:00:17,075
it began incurring 400 years ago,
1053
01:00:17,075 --> 01:00:21,330
when it first decided that human beings
could be purchased and held in bondage.
1054
01:00:23,582 --> 01:00:26,376
What happened in 1619 set in motion
1055
01:00:26,376 --> 01:00:28,545
the defining struggle of American life
1056
01:00:28,545 --> 01:00:30,756
between freedom and oppression,
1057
01:00:30,756 --> 01:00:32,883
equality and racism,
1058
01:00:32,883 --> 01:00:36,887
between ideals of democracy
and the fight to make them real.
1059
01:00:39,848 --> 01:00:44,728
We must confront this 400-year war
between these opposing forces
1060
01:00:44,728 --> 01:00:46,939
and then we must make a choice
1061
01:00:46,939 --> 01:00:49,775
about which America
we want to build for tomorrow.
1062
01:00:52,569 --> 01:00:56,281
We must, finally,
live up to the magnificent ideals
1063
01:00:57,324 --> 01:00:58,992
upon which we were founded.
1064
01:01:07,835 --> 01:01:10,838
♪
1065
01:01:14,424 --> 01:01:17,427
♪