1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:02,480 [intense music] 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:06,520 ♪ I heard he is no good for you ♪ 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,200 ♪ I heard he's the devil's work ♪ 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,480 ♪ I'm praying deep down for you ♪ 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,320 ♪ Praying that you don't get hurt ♪ 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,680 [Alice] Hi there. I just need a bit of advice really. 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,280 So, I split up with my boyfriend about three months ago. 8 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,520 ♪ Do you, do you ♪ 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,800 ♪ Do you know he's no good for you ♪ 10 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,040 [Alice] Since then, I know that he's hacked into my Facebook 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,920 and also my phone. 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:39,840 [Gen] There were days where 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,960 it was all happy and giggly and he was the nicest person ever. 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,880 [Alice] He's been sending me a lot of messages 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,800 even though I've asked him not to contact me. 16 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,760 And then there were days where he was very demanding of her time. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,360 I said, "Well, Alice, if you just ignore him, 18 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,480 he will eventually go away." 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,640 [Harry] You didn't wanna call me again, so that's why I decided to come down 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,560 to give you flowers and chocolates. 21 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,400 [Dave] There is a critical point in Alice's case 22 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,640 when Dhillon says, "I know you belong to another man now." 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,360 [operator] Police emergency, go ahead, caller. 24 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,720 [Maxine] I've just come back to my flat, the door was locked 25 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,160 so I've crawled through the window 26 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,400 and my flatmate's covered in blood in the bathroom. 27 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,400 Alice? Alice? 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:24,760 [dramatic music] 29 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,680 ♪ Do you, do you, ♪ 30 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,720 ♪ Do you know he's no good for you ♪ 31 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,920 [ominous music] 32 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,240 [heartbeat thudding] 33 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,240 [birds chirping] 34 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,520 [tea kettle whistling] 35 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,120 [dramatic music] 36 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,560 [narrator] At home with the Ruggles family, 37 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,520 a loving place, a safe place. 38 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,480 [Clive] Well, Alice was the third of our four children. 39 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,240 We're really a close-knit family. 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,200 We live in a lovely small Leicestershire village. 41 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,840 And so when they were all growing up, you know, 42 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,800 it's a lovely sense of community here 43 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,280 and they play with the other kids in the village 44 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,480 and go to local schools and everything. 45 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,800 [gentle music] 46 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,440 [Sue] Oh, Alice was my advisor. 47 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,400 So she'd advise me on hairstyles and makeup and fashion 48 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,200 and what I should say and what I shouldn't say. 49 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,560 And what students were thinking about me as a teacher. 50 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,160 [Nick] Alice was a really nice little sister. 51 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,520 She always got on with everyone, she was always really fun, 52 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,680 wanted to be involved in stuff, always had a joke. 53 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,600 So she'd always make everyone laugh and entertain people. 54 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,800 [Sue] We used to call her the family glue, because she was the one 55 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,960 who always was the go-between, if there was an argument 56 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,560 and if there was something to find out about someone, 57 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,560 you know, or did they have a new partner, It was Alice who'd say, "Leave it to me. 58 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,080 I'll go and sort it out, I'll find out what's happening." 59 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,280 [gentle music] 60 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:02,640 [Clive] And when she was about 11, 61 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,760 she went off on a PGL course and was introduced to fencing, 62 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,080 which was not something that we'd ever come across before. 63 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,560 But she really loved it and got involved with it. 64 00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:14,520 And by the time she was 15, 65 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,960 she was in the East Midlands Fencing Team. 66 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,160 And when it came to university, 67 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,520 I think the reason she chose Northumbria in Newcastle 68 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,600 was largely because it had a really good reputation 69 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,200 of a fencing team, rather than particularly what she did as her degree. 70 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,640 And she became captain of fencing while she was there, in fact. 71 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:34,640 [gentle music] 72 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,920 I really felt that Alice had just found herself. 73 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,920 She just… 74 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:44,000 She loved life and she was so comfortable in herself. 75 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,320 [Clive] And particularly she loved Newcastle. 76 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,440 And so when she finished her degree, 77 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,680 she decided she wanted to stay in Newcastle. 78 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,280 So for a year or so, she worked in bars and things 79 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:56,600 to make ends meet. 80 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,920 And then she got a job with Sky. 81 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,560 [narrator] Her job meant talking to customers, 82 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,520 making them feel valued. 83 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,200 [Sue] She was always good with people. 84 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,040 But suddenly she was very happy and she was in a job 85 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,560 where that skill was really valuable. 86 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,040 And I felt that she'd got to that point in her life 87 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,560 when suddenly she was gonna accelerate through 88 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,440 and it was gonna be fantastic for her. 89 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:21,440 [dramatic music] 90 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:25,160 [Gen] When I first met Alice, she was at university still. 91 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:26,280 [gentle music] 92 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,560 She was actually friends with a guy that I was dating at the time. 93 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,120 And we just hit it off straight away, 94 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,800 pretty much became best friends and attached to each other, 95 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,480 as you do at that age. 96 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,560 [gentle music] 97 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,080 I had booked a holiday with a partner 98 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,800 and that relationship just didn't work out. 99 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,520 And she had also gone through a breakup at the same time. 100 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:54,680 So we decided that we would keep the trip and we would go together. 101 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,720 We were headed to Sri Lanka, 102 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,280 and the second we got onto the plane, 103 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,440 we sat down in sort of a three row. 104 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:10,600 And the guy next to us immediately took an interest in Alice. 105 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,760 And I think I'd put a photo on Facebook 106 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:15,680 that just the caption was, 107 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,520 "Already five minutes into a journey and Alice has already been chatted up." 108 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,920 And Harry had actually left a comment underneath, 109 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,440 saying something like, "I'm not surprised." 110 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,240 And that was essentially the first time 111 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,200 that they became aware of each other. 112 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:35,840 [dramatic music] 113 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,120 [Clive] His name was Trimaan Dhillon. 114 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,480 We all called him Harry because that was how he liked to be known. 115 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,920 [gentle music] 116 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,560 Dhillon was raised in a strict military upbringing. 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,240 Father, a Colonel in the Indian Army, 118 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:54,960 came to the UK to university and study 119 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,640 and then joined the British Army. 120 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,600 [Richard] His childhood was extremely privileged. 121 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,360 He was an only child. 122 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,680 I've no doubt that he was doted on. 123 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,720 I think he was used to people doing what he wanted. 124 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,680 I think he was a young man 125 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,840 who was worshiped by his mother and his father, 126 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,680 and he wanted other people to worship him in that way. 127 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,800 [ominous music] 128 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:27,720 [Gen] Day one of our holiday 129 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,840 and the only place that you could get Wi-Fi was the lobby. 130 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,400 And she would talk to Harry for those entire hours 131 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,000 that we were there. 132 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,720 So they spoke quite a lot. 133 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,880 And that was within the first 10 days of knowing each other. 134 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:42,920 I mean it's just a giggly stage, 135 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,600 everything they say is the funniest thing you've ever heard. 136 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,560 They are the most attractive person in the world. 137 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,280 You wanna talk to them all the time. 138 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,640 But then it's also the coupled with the fear 139 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,200 of like, "Should I text them now? Should I double text them? 140 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,760 Should I not? Are they busy? Are they ignoring me?" 141 00:06:57,840 --> 00:07:00,200 And that's the phase that they were in. 142 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:05,280 But actually they seemed both very invested from the off. 143 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,000 Things went really, really fast. 144 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,640 So they were talking a lot, 145 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,280 all she had the time all day, every day. 146 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,560 And you know, by the end of the month 147 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,560 they were telling people that they were in a relationship, 148 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,000 and they hadn't even met yet physically. 149 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,720 [dramatic music] 150 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,440 [birds chirping] 151 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,040 I think the first time I really noticed 152 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,160 that something was a little bit off maybe 153 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,520 was when we took a group trip to a cottage in Northumberland. 154 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,360 I was receiving messages from Harry 155 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,760 asking me to get Alice to text him or contact him 156 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,080 or if she could use my phone because hers didn't have much signal. 157 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,280 There were points where Alice was moving furniture 158 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,920 from the corner of rooms, to sit in them, 159 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,200 because that's where the best Wi-Fi was. 160 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,240 Dhillon was constantly, 161 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,480 constantly contacting Alice 162 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,640 and she was getting distracted from her friends 163 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,160 that she was on holiday with. 164 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,640 And they started to notice and they didn't like it. 165 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,680 And I think they started to recognize, even then, 166 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,280 that this was a red flag. 167 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,720 They weren't particularly comfortable with it. 168 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,080 [narrator] Perhaps they needed to meet in person 169 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:26,640 to normalize their relationship. 170 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,159 She did meet him in January, this is 2016 now, 171 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,159 when he came back for two weeks leave. 172 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,600 And his barracks was in Penicuik, South of Edinburgh, 173 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,799 which is about 120 miles north of Newcastle. 174 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,280 But he came down, spent a week with her in Newcastle. 175 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,960 [Gen] She was very nervous, and the first time they met, 176 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,800 I think he was coming to stay for about a week. 177 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,200 And she sent me a text on the way to Central Station. 178 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,440 I think it literally just said something like, "Eep, excited." 179 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:55,840 And I was like, "Oh, good luck." 180 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,320 And I was at work and then by the time I'd finished work, 181 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,960 I had a couple more texts being like, "This is amazing. 182 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,000 Oh, he's such a nice guy. This is incredible." 183 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,840 And I was like, oh, this is good. 184 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,720 [dramatic music] 185 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,440 The first time we met him was the May bank holiday, 186 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,400 they came down for the weekend. 187 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:21,040 [Sue] And he was just so anxious to please us 188 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,040 and to show how much he cared about Alice in front of us. 189 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,520 I remember when he left, Clive said to me, 190 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,920 "He definitely just felt like he was trying to say the right thing." 191 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,360 We didn't know what he was like at all. 192 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,760 We just got somebody who was trying to give us an image of the person 193 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,560 they thought we wanted him to be. 194 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:47,120 There was nothing in his character, when I met him, that made me think, 195 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,320 "Don't like this guy, there's something not right about this guy." 196 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,000 You know, he was friendly enough. 197 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,560 They came back just a few weeks later 198 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,080 for the second May bank holiday, 199 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,920 and already things were a little bit more strained at that time. 200 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,680 [narrator] Strained perhaps, but they remain an item. 201 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,680 I remember thinking he wasn't the boyfriend 202 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,760 I would've wanted for her. 203 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:12,880 But he was… 204 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,040 If that was what she wanted, then I could put up with him. 205 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,200 [gentle music] 206 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,480 [narrator] So how were things in the real world 207 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,920 for the couple who had met and fallen in love online? 208 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:29,760 It was on and off. 209 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,320 There were days where it was all happy and giggly 210 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,880 and he was the nicest person ever. 211 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,160 And then there were days where he was 212 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,680 very demanding of her time, 213 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,320 but in a way that if she couldn't 214 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,040 facilitate that for whatever reason, 215 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,040 he would almost sort of penalize and persecute her. 216 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,600 [gentle music] 217 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:51,720 [narrator] Most of the time, 218 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,480 Alice would see the young men in her life over the web 219 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,480 rather than in the flesh. 220 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,080 There are a few indications early on, 221 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,960 on that online relationship, when he'd make sort of 222 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,640 slightly derogatory comments about her. 223 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,280 So he'd comment on the fact she had quite hairy arms 224 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,280 and he didn't mind, but other men might. 225 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,920 So sort of trying to undermine her self-confidence. 226 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,760 And he talked about the fact she had a big nose, 227 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,320 which is not a very nice thing to say. 228 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,720 [Gen] And it became a real point of insecurity for Alice from that point. 229 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,920 They were talking over Skype and they had had a fight 230 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,520 and he made a point to pull 231 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,440 a really long blond strand of hair from his uniform 232 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,160 and kind of look at it in the camera lens, sort of like, 233 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:44,400 he held it very close to the camera so she could see what it was. 234 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,920 Alice asked the question and he gaslit her 235 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:53,000 and wouldn't say anything else, told her she was crazy. 236 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,360 It would really play on the fact that, 237 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,760 "You're crazy, this is your issue, this is your insecurity. 238 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,760 You need to work on this." 239 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,120 Gaslighting, people doubting their own sanity, 240 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,640 "Is it because of me?" 241 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,600 Questioning themselves, questioning reality. 242 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,560 "Is what Dhillon is saying true?" 243 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,160 [Clive] She started to lose weight, she started to lose confidence. 244 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,040 And then, you know, she was not a shy girl. 245 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,800 She was gradually becoming more and more isolated. 246 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,120 The things that he'd say to her in the early stages, 247 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,680 they were a bit like compliments. 248 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,600 So he'd be asking where she was going, what she was wearing, 249 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:36,320 this sort of thing. 250 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,040 And then gradually this would become more and more controlling. 251 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,520 [Jane] One minute it would be really, really intense 252 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,000 and he'd get quite upset if she wasn't there 253 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,360 to respond when he wanted to. 254 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,080 He would, you know, start contacting her friends 255 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,680 and other people and put pressure on her. 256 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,800 In the end, it got to the point where he needed to know, 257 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,320 would demand to know what she was wearing, 258 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,720 when she was going out, where she was going. 259 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,320 Sometimes he'd even, I think, turn up, you know, 260 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,360 and this is a two hour drive away, 261 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,160 when she'd gone out with some friends somewhere, 262 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,920 and he'd just turn up unannounced. 263 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,320 [narrator] There were other signs, this was not a stable relationship. 264 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,320 And Alice started hearing that he was back on Tinder 265 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,080 and he was looking for relationships with other girls. 266 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,640 She actually found out because the girl messaged her. 267 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,760 She had a contact from someone she didn't know, 268 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,520 a girl she didn't know. 269 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,320 And this other woman said to her, 270 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,400 "Do you realize your boyfriend's cheating on you?" 271 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,360 [Gen] And sent her screenshots of all of the messages. 272 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,560 And it was a hundred percent him talking to this girl. 273 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:44,920 He denied ever setting it up. 274 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,320 He said it was people in his squad trying to get back at him 275 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:50,880 but would never say what for. 276 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,920 He basically would manipulate and guilt trip her 277 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,000 by saying, "This is your insecurity that you don't believe me." 278 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,600 But he kept saying that, "I'm a good man, I would never do that." 279 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,280 And she's thought, "No, this is the line that I'm not prepared to cross. 280 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:08,360 And so this is it, 281 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,280 I don't wanna go out with this person anymore." 282 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,600 [dramatic music] 283 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:14,680 As far as Alice was concerned, it was done. 284 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,440 She was happy to move on as friends, but nothing more. 285 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,280 This is all about me, me, me. 286 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,360 And of course when that ends, 287 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,560 the risk escalates significantly 288 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,360 because that is the last thing that Dhillon wants to happen. 289 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,480 The problem was that he wasn't gonna have that. 290 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,600 So at that point, 291 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,120 that was when the control within the relationship 292 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,160 turned to stalking. 293 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,760 [ominous music] 294 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,840 [Gen] He would bombard her with messages, 295 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,640 like hundreds of messages, not just like one or two, 296 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,640 it was hundreds, constantly throughout the day. 297 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,720 [Sue] He was trying to contact her on every platform. 298 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:56,920 So I think she'd wake up 299 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,000 and there would be messages left on her phone. 300 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,040 [Harry crying] Alice, please. 301 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,000 Alice, please, please, please, I can't do it. 302 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,800 Please, not this… Please. 303 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,440 And there would be messages left on the messenger apps that she used. 304 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,320 She was probably getting 10 to 20 messages every day. 305 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,040 [ominous music] 306 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,960 He'd taken over her Facebook account. 307 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,200 She knew that he had the password to her Facebook account 308 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,400 because she must have left her phone around at some point, 309 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,120 he'd taken it. 310 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,120 And he'd installed spyware on her phone. 311 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,800 It was never proved, but we are quite convinced of it 312 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,920 because as things went on, 313 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,040 he knew things that he couldn't have known 314 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,120 unless he was spying on WhatsApp conversations. 315 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,400 So I had to help her get her phone wiped 316 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,520 and the factory reset, cleared off, to solve that problem. 317 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,040 And we were… she was fairly sure 318 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,000 it was Dhillon who was behind it. 319 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,560 I don't know what I thought about it. 320 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,640 I didn't think he was as dangerous as I should have done. 321 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,920 [Dave] Dhillon is closing down her world. 322 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,240 She's having to make changes and regulate her behavior, 323 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,440 not just as a consequence of what she's experiencing, 324 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,520 this is about oppression. 325 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,640 [narrator] The 24/7 abuse was at the hands of a man 326 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,080 with a past that Alice knew nothing of. 327 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,920 He wouldn't accept the end of the relationship. 328 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,320 But he had a history of not accepting the end of relationships. 329 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,480 [Dave] So we know there's a history there of unhealthy relationships. 330 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,600 He was already subject of an order prohibiting him from contact 331 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,840 with another female down in Kent, 332 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,320 which might have been the reason why he was moved 333 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,720 to Edinburgh as a punishment. 334 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,280 Alice didn't know that Dhillon had a history 335 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,760 of stalking and control and abuse 336 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,800 and behaving very, very badly to rejection. 337 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,320 There was an incident just before he met Alice, 338 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,960 where he had seen an ex-girlfriend in the town with her new boyfriend. 339 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,680 He'd gone up to her and spat in her face. 340 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,480 There was a restraining order, you know, which he managed to explain away. 341 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,760 So this was who he was. 342 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:12,720 [dramatic music] 343 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,560 [narrator] It was time to move on from this soldier boy and his obsession. 344 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,240 [Gen] I heard through the grapevine, from other people, 345 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,040 that she had met someone in Germany and… 346 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,800 and I had text her saying, 347 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,600 "I can't wait to hear about this, tell me everything." 348 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,040 [gentle music] 349 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,080 She'd met a new guy. 350 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,360 He was a friend of her sister's, he was a really decent man 351 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,720 and he was coming to see her that weekend. 352 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 [gentle music] 353 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,440 [Clive] It came to a head right at the end of September. 354 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,880 Alice is now living in a ground floor flat 355 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,600 with Maxine, who's a colleague from work. 356 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,680 But she was getting seriously worried about him and seriously frightened. 357 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,840 And the colleagues from work would drive her home every night. 358 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,040 She lived in Gateshead by this time, across the river. 359 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,520 And she'd get driven back to the front door, 360 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,920 put double locks on the front door. 361 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,520 And her colleague, Maxine, would try and be there, 362 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:11,800 most of the time, with her. 363 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,200 But on this particular night, Maxine was off in Durham with her own boyfriend. 364 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,160 And Alice was alone in the flat. 365 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,360 And a bit after she'd arrived at home, there's this knock on the front door. 366 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,880 When she looks out the little peep hole, no one's there. 367 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,920 And this happened two or three times more intervals in the evening. 368 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,120 But anyway, it gets dark, she goes to bed, 369 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,360 and her bedroom's at the back of the flat. 370 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,080 And just as she's going to sleep, 371 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,440 there's this knock on the back window, behind her bed. 372 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,280 And when she opens the curtains, he's there, 373 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,480 and he's put some flowers and some chocolates 374 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,160 on the back window and he's backing off as if to say, 375 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,520 "Okay, I'm leaving now." 376 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,280 [ominous music] 377 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,640 He drove, from Edinburgh, two and a half hours 378 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,040 and climbed over the back fence with some flowers and some chocolate 379 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,040 and left them on her windowsill. 380 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:10,560 And then kind of just stood there looking at her for maybe like a couple of minutes. 381 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,040 While he's driving out of Newcastle, 382 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,960 he then reads this message in. 383 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,400 So he sends her this message on her phone. 384 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,600 [Harry] Hey, Alice. 385 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,520 After we spoke you didn't wanna speak, well, you didn't wanna call me again. 386 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,960 So that's why I decided to come down to give you flowers an chocolates. 387 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,320 And… yeah. 388 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,600 Now I'm on my way back. If you want to take it, you can take it. 389 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,880 If you want to bin it, you can bin it. It's completely up to you. 390 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,640 I just wanted to do something just to say I'm sorry 391 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,040 and show that I'm, really am sorry. 392 00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:45,680 I spoke to a couple of the other girls 393 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,440 and we all started pushing her to go to the police, 394 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,400 to talk to somebody. 395 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,720 Her sister Emma was doing exactly the same. 396 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,960 And I definitely remember Alice's older sister ringing me 397 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,240 and saying, "Mom, Alice is being stalked. 398 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:01,560 It's really serious." 399 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,320 And I sort of made some comment about stalking. 400 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,240 And she said to me, and it stays with me always, 401 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,400 "Mum, stalking, think about what stalking is. 402 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,320 Stalking comes from deer stalking, 403 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,480 and what happens to the deer at the end?" 404 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,680 And so that night she calls the police. 405 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,640 [policeman] Evening, Northumbria Police, Chris speaking. How can I help you? 406 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,080 [Alice] Hi there. 407 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,680 I just need a bit of advice really, more than anything. 408 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,240 So I've split out with my boyfriend about three months ago. 409 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,720 Since then, I know that he's hacked into my Facebook 410 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,840 and also my phone. 411 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,720 And when you listen to that phone call, 412 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,440 I mean it's heart rending, 'cause she's so, 413 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,280 almost apologetic for ringing them. 414 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,720 [Alice] He's been sending me a lot of messages 415 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,080 even though I've asked him not to contact me. 416 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,840 And then tonight he's… 417 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,600 Well, I had a knock at my door, and, well, he'd sent me a message saying, 418 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,520 "I've been in the garden since five." 419 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,280 I had a knock at my door 420 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:04,320 and then when I went, and I've got like a little, 421 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,560 you know, those things that you can look through, 422 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,080 and there was no one there. 423 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,480 And then it happened again, two or three times. 424 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:12,720 She's so polite. 425 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,600 She's saying, "I just need a bit of help and advice tonight." 426 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,440 [Alice] And then he's come around the back, 427 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,600 knocked on my bedroom window, 428 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,240 he's been outside and he's like left 429 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,000 some flowers and chocolates on the like outside windowsill, 430 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,160 and like he's walked off, he's not done anything. 431 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,440 But I'm just, I'm concerned. 432 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,040 I just feel a bit like shaken up tonight. 433 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,840 So she's not screaming down the phone saying, "I'm frightened." 434 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,840 She clearly was. 435 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,920 So he basically said there's two things you could do. 436 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,560 [policeman] Go to a solicitor and take out an injunction. 437 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,640 [Alice] Yeah. 438 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,960 [policeman] Keep him away from you. 439 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,200 Now that's bad advice, 440 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,040 because first of all, someone in Alice's position wouldn't-- 441 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,640 she'd never approach the law, wouldn't know where to start, 442 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,040 would've been very costly and would've been timely, 443 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,480 and time was not on her side. 444 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,880 The other thing we could do is, you could take out a Police Information Notice, 445 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:01,800 a PIN notice. 446 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,640 And if you do that, then if he ever comes near you again, 447 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:06,600 he'll be arrested. 448 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,800 [policeman] So which would you prefer? 449 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,480 [Alice] Can I try that option, please? 450 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:12,640 [policeman] Of course you can. 451 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,360 The Police Information Notice, the PIN was issued. 452 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,480 A Police Information Notice is the alternative to investigation. 453 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,000 And Alice was told that if he came near her again 454 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,200 or contacted her again in any way, he'd be arrested. 455 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,680 [Sue] It had an impact on him in the sense that it made him angry. 456 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,920 It sort of made you realize that Alice calling the police 457 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,800 had put herself in a lot of danger. 458 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,160 I think the danger really started to rise 459 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,680 when Alice left him. 460 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,400 That's when things started to really get more dangerous for Alice. 461 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,480 And then when the stalking started, 462 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,040 we've gone up another level of danger. 463 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,440 And when he starts going outside of the social media 464 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,240 and physically coming down, 465 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,720 and some of the things he's saying, 466 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,360 move us on again to another escalation. 467 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,920 [dramatic music] 468 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,240 [narrator] By now, the police knew all about him. 469 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,200 She had a new boyfriend. 470 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,600 For a moment in time, Alice Ruggles could breathe easily. 471 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,320 Everyone at Sky said that in the next few days 472 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,120 they had the old Alice back and suddenly she was all vibrant 473 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,680 and she was just herself again. 474 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,720 And that was fabulous… 475 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,800 for a week. 476 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,520 [ominous music] 477 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,560 And at the end of that week, he sent a parcel. 478 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,280 I was like, you need to ring the police. 479 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,920 I was like, he's broken his PIN. 480 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,720 And she spoke to the police and they were not the most helpful. 481 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,520 [policeman] Good afternoon, sorry, good evening, Northumbria Police. 482 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,160 Jeff speaking. How can I help? 483 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,080 [Alice] Hi there. 484 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,080 Somebody's been issued with a PIN so they can't contact me, 485 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,880 however I've had a letter off them. 486 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,000 [policeman] Right, okay. So you're reporting a breach of a PIN. 487 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,040 [Alice] Yeah. 488 00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:58,920 [policeman] So you've got a PIN against who? 489 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,280 [Alice] Against Harry Dhillon. 490 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:02,280 [policeman] What was the contents of the letter, was he…? 491 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,240 [Alice] So, pictures of me and him, 492 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,280 a notebook that I sent him when we were together and a letter. 493 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,160 [policeman] What was the nature? Was it like threatening or harassing? 494 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,120 [Alice] No, not threatening. 495 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,840 It just, it says at the bottom he won't contact, 496 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,560 you know, this will be a last I hear from him. 497 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,280 But he's said that a lot of times, and it, 498 00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:22,760 he never does seem to stop. 499 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,160 And in fact sort of made her feel like 500 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,560 it was stupid that she'd contacted them. 501 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,720 And I know she sent a text to her sister around that time. 502 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,440 That was awful. 503 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,320 And it was, "Oh well, they'll take me seriously 504 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,880 when he stabs me." 505 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,560 And it's real awful to think that your friend 506 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:44,720 texted somebody that 507 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,760 and genuinely thought that, that was a real possibility. 508 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,640 Like, what head space do you have to be in, 509 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,000 like, for that to actually occur, 510 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,880 for that to be a genuine thing? 511 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:00,600 Sorry. 512 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,520 [crying] 513 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,600 [tense music] 514 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,720 She'd done three bad things as far as he was concerned. 515 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,720 She'd ended the relationship with him. 516 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,040 She had started a new relationship and now she'd called the police on him. 517 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,040 [ominous music] 518 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,360 [car engine revving] 519 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,560 [narrator] Trimaan Harry Dhillon goes old school to communicate with Alice. 520 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,200 There is a critical point in Alice's case 521 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,000 when we see in a letter that Dhillon sends, 522 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,080 where he says, "I know you belong to another man now." 523 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,360 In that one sentence, so much is communicated. 524 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,200 The fact that he refers to Alice as a possession, 525 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,040 something that can be acquired and possessed, 526 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,600 Alice is becoming dehumanized. 527 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,280 You're an object, and of course it's easier 528 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,720 to be violent towards objects than it is towards people. 529 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,960 So there were lots of signs. 530 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,840 Alice was right to be worried. 531 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,440 [dramatic music] 532 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,000 And then on the night of the 12th, 533 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,640 just 12 days after her first call to the police, 534 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,080 he came down to Newcastle. 535 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,120 [Richard] Dhillon had traveled down. 536 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,680 Now we're bearing in mind, he's living in Edinburgh 537 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,080 and she's living in Newcastle. 538 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,200 So we're not talking about a short journey. 539 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,400 He traveled down from Edinburgh to Newcastle 540 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,080 and he'd reconnoitred the house. 541 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,160 And we found a photograph on his phone, 542 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,480 a really chilling photograph. 543 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,920 It was of the bathroom window at the back of the house. 544 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,160 And he was undoubtedly, in our view, making a reconnaissance 545 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,480 of how he could get into the property. 546 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,720 And he sits and he waits, 547 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,360 and he waits and he waits outside the house. 548 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,800 Not right outside, but up the road. 549 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,720 [ominous music] 550 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,680 Alice came home from work, she'd been having a lift home from work 551 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,720 ever since Dhillon had started stalking her, 552 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,040 'cause her work colleagues wanted to keep her safe. 553 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,840 [dramatic music] 554 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,120 And then when she's dropped off, we picked up on camera, 555 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,920 his car moving into position. 556 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,960 So he is moving closer. 557 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,680 [Sue] She went into the flat. 558 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,040 She got changed from her work clothes. 559 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:17,560 And when he arrived at the house, 560 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,360 Alice had been talking to Mike in WhatsApp. 561 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,320 [dramatic music] 562 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,440 You know, he doesn't enter through the front door. 563 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,240 He breaks into the property. 564 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,920 [tense music] 565 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,520 And Mike said that she suddenly stopped. 566 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,440 She would've been startled. 567 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:35,880 Somehow there's been a struggle. 568 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,640 The door has come off the wardrobe. There's a disturbance in that room. 569 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,800 What does she do? She can't get out of the front door, 570 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,480 she's double-locked it so that he couldn't get in. 571 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,400 So she runs for the only room where she might be safe, the bathroom, 572 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,160 'cause it's the only room that can be locked. 573 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,240 And she got to that door before he did. 574 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,400 We know that, because there were foot marks on the door, 575 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,680 he kicked that door open, forced his way into it. 576 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,560 You know, he's not doing that for a peaceful reason, 577 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,840 he's doing that because he wants to hurt her. 578 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:07,080 What Dhillon did to Alice was effectively an execution. 579 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,200 "You do not deserve to be in this world." 580 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,520 And as long as you are in the world, 581 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,640 it is constantly an attack to his sense of self-worth. 582 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,200 And the only way that he can repair that harm, 583 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,760 legitimately, as he sees it, 584 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,320 is to remove the problem completely. 585 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,800 And we see an effective execution take place. 586 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,880 [dramatic music] 587 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,720 Six separate drawing of the knife across the throat. 588 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,040 [dramatic music] 589 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,560 [narrator] Dhillon flees. 590 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,320 He leaves Alice's lifeless body behind him. 591 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,840 She's alone, her friend is due home soon. 592 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,440 20 minutes later, Maxine arrived at the flat. 593 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,640 She'd come home to collect some clothes 'cause she was going to stay the night 594 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,640 at her boyfriend's flat. 595 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,840 And she found that the front door was locked. 596 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,520 The snick had been put down on the lock, 597 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,320 so she couldn't get in. 598 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,560 So she's ringing Alice trying to find out where she is, 599 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:05,880 couldn't get hold of her. 600 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,200 So she went around to the back of the house 601 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,640 and she shimmied up the drainpipe 602 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,800 and climbed in through the window into Alice's bedroom, 603 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,120 ground floor, but still quite high, quite difficult to access. 604 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,560 And she goes through the window, 605 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,360 she's landing in Alice's bedroom. 606 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,320 And she can see the wardrobe doors off, but it's silent. 607 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,320 And she went through the flat looking for Alice. 608 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,280 Now you wouldn't have any idea actually 609 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,320 that there had been a murder here 610 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,520 until she got to the bathroom. 611 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,600 And you know, you've gotta imagine she opens this door 612 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,840 and there is this scene of utter devastation, 613 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:41,320 blood everywhere. 614 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,800 [operator] Thank you. Go ahead caller. 615 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,400 [Maxine] I've just come back to my flat 616 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,160 and the door was locked, I've crawled through the window 617 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,880 and my flat mate's covered in blood in the bathroom. 618 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,240 [operator] Is she breathing? 619 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,920 [Maxine] I don't know. I can't look, sorry. 620 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,280 [operator] Okay, try and stay calm. 621 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,480 [Maxine] Oh my God, she's dead, she's dead. 622 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,720 [Maxine crying] 623 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,080 [operator] She's in the bathroom? 624 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,280 Is she in the bath or? 625 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,040 [Maxine] Please, I don't know, I don't know. 626 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,840 [operator] Can you look and see if she's breathing? For the ambulance. 627 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,120 [Maxine] She's not, she's not. 628 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,560 [operator] She's not breathing. 629 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,480 [Maxine] No, she looks, no. 630 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,080 [operator] How much blood is there? 631 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,280 [Maxine] There's lots. It's everywhere, it's everywhere. 632 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,360 It looks like she was in the shower. 633 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,520 Everything's been knocked over. It looks like she's been attacked. 634 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,600 Please help. 635 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,280 Alice, are you awake? 636 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,920 Alice? 637 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,520 And straight away she knows what's happened. 638 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,600 You know, she knows this is Harry Dhillon, no one else has done this. 639 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:31,800 No question. 640 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,480 No question whatsoever who had done it. 641 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,600 [Maxine] She's only 23 and we knew this was coming. 642 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,920 Her ex is an absolute psychopath. 643 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,880 She put in a statement about him two weeks ago. 644 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,160 [operator] About who? 645 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,200 [Maxine] Her ex-boyfriend, Harry Dhillon. 646 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,840 [Clive] And he was then, he drove back to Edinburgh. 647 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,200 He had time to get to the barracks 648 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,120 and clean up and get his clothes in the washing machine. 649 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,080 But of course Maxine had been screaming his name 650 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,800 when the police arrived after a 999 call. 651 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,040 [gentle music] 652 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,000 [operator] She'd been having problems with her ex? 653 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,160 [Maxine] Yes. 654 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,320 [operator] So do you think that that's what it is? 655 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,880 [Maxine] Yeah, I think… I can hear the sirens. 656 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,240 [police sirens blaring] 657 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:14,760 They'd gone after him. 658 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,640 And they caught him trying to climb out of the barracks. 659 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,080 What he was trying to do was climb out so he wouldn't have to sign out, 660 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,720 presumably to establish his alibi. 661 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,000 -But they caught him. -[dramatic music] 662 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,800 By the time Sue and I got the horrible call at the door 663 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,000 at two in the morning, from our local police, 664 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,560 he was already back in Newcastle in custody. 665 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,000 [Sue] When the police came, 666 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,000 you know when they come in the middle of the night 667 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,760 that this is something really serious. 668 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,720 And I think we knew because of what had happened. 669 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,760 We knew what it was, as soon as they came. 670 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,760 You just got that horrible feeling of, you know, 671 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,440 why hadn't you done things differently? 672 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,920 What could you have done that could have stopped it? 673 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000 And why on earth didn't you do it? 674 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:05,920 [dramatic music] 675 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,360 [narrator] Alice's family and friends are swept up in the tragedy. 676 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,680 They then went again. 677 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,520 And half past two in the morning, 678 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,240 Sue and I are sort of sitting at the kitchen table 679 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,800 having been hit by that news, thinking, "What do we do?" 680 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,240 We went up to see Alice. 681 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,960 Which I think if I hadn't have done that, I wouldn't have believed it was real. 682 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,880 [narrator] But it was all too real. 683 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,400 It's one thing knowing what has happened, it is another getting a prosecution. 684 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,840 [gentle music] 685 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,840 [birds chirping] 686 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,560 Harry Dhillon refuses to admit guilt 687 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,920 in the murder of Alice Ruggles. 688 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,760 [gentle music] 689 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,000 [Richard] I was approached at quite an early stage. 690 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,840 Dhillon had been charged with murder 691 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,840 and I was instructed by the Crown Prosecution Service, 692 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:01,880 a couple of days after he was charged. 693 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,680 The case was tried in the Crown Court at Newcastle upon Tyne. 694 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,440 Dhillon had been arrested fairly quickly. 695 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,200 Held and interviewed, charged 696 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,320 and then sent very rapidly to the Crown Court. 697 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,200 In this case, there was a lot of information 698 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,200 that we needed to pull together from social media, 699 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,280 from telephones, CCTV, witness accounts. 700 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,200 The case against Trimaan Dhillon had a number of key components. 701 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,600 The first was to demonstrate 702 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,440 that he was a particularly controlling person, 703 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,800 who, over a period of time, had sought to control Alice, 704 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,920 had become obsessed with Alice. 705 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,480 And that obsession had become quite dangerous and unhealthy. 706 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,920 [dramatic music] 707 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,360 Then there was a phase of calling evidence 708 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:55,960 about his background, 709 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,800 evidence that demonstrated from other previous partners 710 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,920 that he had an obsessive tendency, 711 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,240 that he had stalked other women in the past. 712 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:09,239 He planned Alice's murder, he carried out Alice's murder. 713 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,400 [Richard] His first account when he was arrested 714 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,719 was to say, "I've been in Edinburgh. 715 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,560 I've been in a shopping center. It had nothing to do with me." 716 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,199 That's then disproved by demonstrating 717 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,760 that his phone had moved down to Newcastle, 718 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,320 that his car had been seen on CCTV. 719 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,800 So then he comes up with a second version. 720 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,840 He was unbelievably arrogant. 721 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,199 Arrogant, you know, to us, to the police. 722 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,760 He was so arrogant in court. 723 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,040 He just genuinely believed 724 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,639 that people would believe every word he said, 725 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,760 that was complete nonsense. 726 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,520 Second version is, "Well, I did go down to Newcastle 727 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:46,719 and I did speak to Alice. 728 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,679 But when I left her, she was absolutely fine." 729 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,440 That's then disproved by Alice's blood 730 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,639 being found on the steering wheel of his car. 731 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,680 Alice's blood being found on his Help for Heroes bangle, 732 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,560 her DNA being found in those locations. 733 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,240 So he has to abandon that. 734 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,440 And then he comes up with the defense that he ran at trial, 735 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,480 which was, he had been with Alice, he'd been in the flat, 736 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,320 he'd been with her when she died. 737 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,920 But all of the horrific injuries she had 738 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,800 were completely self-inflicted. 739 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,960 He lied and lied and tried to get out of it, 740 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,000 tried to put the blame on Alice. 741 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,360 When it came to court. 742 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,360 He was trying to argue that he'd gone into the flat, 743 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,960 which he'd denied before. 744 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,680 And that Alice had attacked him. 745 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:35,760 [laughing] 746 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,080 And the, I dunno, killed herself in the process, whatever. 747 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,440 The trial was a final exercise 748 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,360 in controlling and torturing the Ruggles family, 749 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,680 taunting them about what they knew he'd done. 750 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,760 And actually looking across at Alice's father and saying, 751 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,440 in answer to a question, that he thought that 752 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,480 it was a shame that their father couldn't be there with her. 753 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,560 You know, and that was all about just taunting the family, 754 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,640 that, "You weren't there when I killed your daughter." 755 00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:09,160 [ominous music] 756 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:13,240 But he's also putting words into Alice's mouth. 757 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,600 And so he would sort of say, 758 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,800 "And then Alice suddenly did this or did this." 759 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,040 And there'd be some little jibe against me or Sue 760 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,720 or one of the other family, or one of her friends. 761 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,640 And so he was actually using this to put little jibes out to all of us, 762 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:28,720 even just standing there in front of us. 763 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,880 The jury went out just before lunch, when the case finished. 764 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,960 And I remember sitting there over lunch worrying about how long they would take. 765 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,320 [tense music] 766 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,240 But we didn't have to wait long. We went through the lunch break 767 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,760 and then the jury came back, virtually, immediately after lunch. 768 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,680 And of course when they delivered the guilty verdict 769 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,440 there's just a sense of, 770 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,200 I dunno, there is a sense of relief. 771 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,480 I can't imagine what we would've felt otherwise. 772 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,720 In this case, the judge decided that the minimum terms, 773 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,080 that's the least number of years he'd have to serve 774 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,160 before he could apply to be released, was 22 years. 775 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:16,320 I would've thought it'd be a very, very long time indeed 776 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,440 until anybody considers that he'd be safe to release. 777 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,080 [dramatic music] 778 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,160 [narrator] There were many more victims of Trimaan Dhillon. 779 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,720 [Sue] I felt horribly guilty for a very long time. 780 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,920 And I felt, in fact, I felt so guilty 781 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,800 that I thought that when I gave my evidence in court 782 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,160 that people would think what a terrible person I was 783 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:41,520 and how I hadn't sort of done the right thing 784 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,040 for my daughter. 785 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,400 It did eventually go away 786 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,560 because I sort of realized that, actually, 787 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,960 it wasn't just me who felt like that. 788 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,960 And that everybody felt that something that they'd done 789 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,720 could have made a difference. 790 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,480 You know, could have stopped it happening 791 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,440 or could have stopped her meeting him. 792 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,880 And it sort of made me realize that actually, 793 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,840 if we'd all known what all of the others have been thinking, 794 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,600 then we could have made a difference. 795 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,280 Alice and her family, they all, 796 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,520 they all recognized the danger, 797 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,840 they all behaved normally 798 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,280 as you would in this situation. 799 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,720 The problem was they weren't dealing with somebody who was normal. 800 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,760 And it needed, perhaps, 801 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,120 to be recognized more acutely, 802 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,280 the danger that Alice was in at that time. 803 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,480 [tense music] 804 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,000 I listen to people who say they forgive. 805 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,520 And it interests me 'cause I would always have been one of those people. 806 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,040 But I'm not anymore. 807 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,880 I never felt anger about anyone. 808 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,120 I mean, I don't blame the police for doing the wrong thing. It's… 809 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,640 Certainly the wrong things were done, but that is about training issue. 810 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,160 What I ask of the police is that they 811 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:07,800 admit that things were done wrong and lessons are learned. 812 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,720 And that has been the case. 813 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,760 [narrator] Lessons have to be learned, lives depend on it. 814 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,520 [dramatic music] 815 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,360 When I listen to Alice's first call to Northumbria Police, 816 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,480 the word stalking wasn't mentioned once. 817 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,920 And yet Alice gives an uninterrupted free recall 818 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,800 about what she was experiencing at that time. 819 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,800 And I can't give you much more if you asked me 820 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,040 what does rejected ex-intimate stalking looked like, 821 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,640 I couldn't give you much more than what Alice said 822 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,240 in those couple of minutes. 823 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,040 And yet that wasn't identified as stalking. 824 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,040 And that is a critical point 825 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,080 in terms of how Alice's case developed. 826 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,360 [narrator] For Alice's family, determination to help the next girl 827 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,960 facing someone like Dhillon. 828 00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,240 It really shocked me how many people go through this 829 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:00,600 and how common this is. 830 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,080 And it does keep happening. 831 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,800 And we keep, as a society, not learning from those mistakes. 832 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,640 And people don't understand how dangerous it is. 833 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:13,320 And I think that's really, really quite upsetting. 834 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,520 The figures for stalking are horrendous. 835 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,200 I mean, one in five women will be stalked 836 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,560 at some point in their lifetime, one in ten men. 837 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,640 So we set up The Alice Ruggles Trust. 838 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,200 Of course with trained professionals, 839 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,640 but our big thing is raising awareness 840 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:31,680 so that more people who are victims of stalking 841 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,280 or who are friends of victims of stalking 842 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,400 can actually go to the right people 843 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,640 and get help, get something done about it sooner 844 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:40,960 rather than letting it fester, 845 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,680 or thinking it will get better by itself. 846 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,880 [Gen] Alice will be remembered for drinking more gin 847 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,640 than anybody else in the entire building on a night out, 848 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,320 but still managing to be absolutely okay 849 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,480 whilst everyone else passed out. 850 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,760 She will be remembered for kind words. 851 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,400 She'll be remembered for how thoughtful she was. 852 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,760 This literally happened to her 853 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,560 but it does not and will never define her, 854 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,080 especially for the people that actually know her. 855 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:16,880 [intense music] 856 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,240 I think about Alice every single day. 857 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,280 Not a day goes past when I don't think about her. 858 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,560 But I just sort of think of her memory 859 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,880 and I think, you know, what would Alice have done, 860 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,640 what would she have wanted and what would she have thought? 861 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,800 Alice is only ever gonna have been as old as 24 862 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,920 and she hasn't gonna have been older than that. 863 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,560 And she's never had the chance to have her own family. 864 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,440 We'll see her brothers and sisters having their own family. 865 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,040 [somber music] 866 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:54,960 It's quite sad. 867 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,040 [somber music builds]