1 00:00:02,043 --> 00:00:05,003 Previously he'd blocked me on WhatsApp, he'd blocked me on 2 00:00:05,003 --> 00:00:07,083 Instagram. They're both now available. 3 00:00:07,083 --> 00:00:10,963 In my mind, that's telling me that's because he's ready to talk. 4 00:00:10,963 --> 00:00:12,923 But who knows? 5 00:00:12,923 --> 00:00:15,283 This programme contains some strong language 6 00:00:17,443 --> 00:00:20,643 Hello, Gurvin. It's Mobeen calling. How are you? 7 00:00:20,643 --> 00:00:24,123 A few people have mentioned, and I kind of get the impression 8 00:00:24,123 --> 00:00:25,763 that you're...you're... 9 00:00:25,763 --> 00:00:27,603 ..you might be ready to talk to me. 10 00:00:27,603 --> 00:00:28,923 There's allegations, 11 00:00:28,923 --> 00:00:31,003 so I want you to engage with those. 12 00:00:31,003 --> 00:00:33,483 And, you know, you're capable of engaging with those. 13 00:00:33,483 --> 00:00:35,963 I'm sure you are. So... So that's what I'd... 14 00:00:35,963 --> 00:00:37,843 ..I'd like you to do. 15 00:00:37,843 --> 00:00:39,203 Yeah. 16 00:00:39,203 --> 00:00:42,203 And just...I just want to reiterate, Gurvin, that it's not... 17 00:00:42,203 --> 00:00:44,723 I can't make this clear enough. 18 00:00:44,723 --> 00:00:47,843 It is not about making anyone look good or bad. 19 00:00:47,843 --> 00:00:50,043 It's just about the truth of the situation. 20 00:00:50,043 --> 00:00:51,083 Yeah? 21 00:00:52,803 --> 00:00:55,803 You know, around Sunday, Monday. OK. So, yes, if you can make Tuesday 22 00:00:55,803 --> 00:00:58,443 work, if you can give us an hour of your time, 23 00:00:58,443 --> 00:01:00,443 that would be brilliant. 24 00:01:00,443 --> 00:01:02,043 Take care. Thank you. 25 00:01:12,003 --> 00:01:13,843 Are you serious? 26 00:01:17,763 --> 00:01:19,763 Everyone was just excited. He's making money. 27 00:01:19,763 --> 00:01:21,203 We're going to make money. 28 00:01:21,203 --> 00:01:22,523 She lost 9,000. 29 00:01:27,083 --> 00:01:29,603 Did you lose all of your nine...? Absolutely, 100%. 30 00:01:31,723 --> 00:01:33,483 Who were you working with? 31 00:01:33,483 --> 00:01:35,483 What happened with the money? 32 00:01:45,523 --> 00:01:47,443 We are rolling. 33 00:01:47,443 --> 00:01:49,843 Yeah, you know that and you've been told that. Mm-hm. 34 00:01:49,843 --> 00:01:52,403 I put my phone on airplane mode... Yeah, if you could. 35 00:01:52,403 --> 00:01:55,563 Are you happy to proceed? Yeah. Wicked. 36 00:01:55,563 --> 00:01:57,723 Before we get started, there's a couple of things 37 00:01:57,723 --> 00:01:59,483 that I need to let you know. 38 00:01:59,483 --> 00:02:03,523 Firstly, this is Gurvin's chance to tell his version of the story 39 00:02:03,523 --> 00:02:05,803 in which he's going to mention other people, 40 00:02:05,803 --> 00:02:08,323 businesses and organisations, 41 00:02:08,323 --> 00:02:11,563 and some of those people, for whatever reason, have chosen not 42 00:02:11,563 --> 00:02:13,003 to engage with me. 43 00:02:13,003 --> 00:02:17,083 That means it's not been possible to verify everything he claims. 44 00:02:17,083 --> 00:02:19,883 Secondly, from time to time, I'll pause and provide 45 00:02:19,883 --> 00:02:21,403 some quick explanation. 46 00:02:21,403 --> 00:02:23,563 This stuff is complicated, 47 00:02:23,563 --> 00:02:25,923 so I'll try to help wherever I can. 48 00:02:25,923 --> 00:02:28,643 And that's it. Let's run the tape. 49 00:02:28,643 --> 00:02:32,243 The first time I came across you was on the video 50 00:02:32,243 --> 00:02:35,883 of you handing out cash... Yeah. ..in Plymouth town centre. 51 00:02:35,883 --> 00:02:38,763 Of course, that video was picked up by lots of people. Yeah. 52 00:02:38,763 --> 00:02:41,363 Tell me what happened that day. How much cash did you hand out? 53 00:02:41,363 --> 00:02:44,443 And the key thing is, what were you trying to achieve? 54 00:02:44,443 --> 00:02:47,963 Yeah. OK, cool. So I think it was £1,000 or £2,000. 55 00:02:47,963 --> 00:02:50,843 I can't remember the exact figures, but it's whatever the newspapers 56 00:02:50,843 --> 00:02:52,403 wrote it was, 57 00:02:52,403 --> 00:02:55,483 and it was more a thing to become an influencer. 58 00:02:55,483 --> 00:02:58,683 I knew that me giving away £1,000 or £2,000 on Instagram 59 00:02:58,683 --> 00:03:00,563 wouldn't really create that much attention, 60 00:03:00,563 --> 00:03:03,763 whereas if I did it in the public's eye, it would create a decent amount 61 00:03:03,763 --> 00:03:05,923 of attention and was in fact a marketing tool. 62 00:03:05,923 --> 00:03:07,843 So it was quite a business move, I'd say. 63 00:03:07,843 --> 00:03:09,803 So I want you to just take a look at this. 64 00:03:09,803 --> 00:03:13,123 This was an article back in 2019, 65 00:03:13,123 --> 00:03:14,963 May 2nd this came out. 66 00:03:14,963 --> 00:03:18,003 Can you read that headline for me? Yeah. 67 00:03:18,003 --> 00:03:21,083 "Plymouth student makes a fortune trading in foreign currencies." 68 00:03:21,083 --> 00:03:23,603 Were you making a fortune trading in foreign currencies? 69 00:03:23,603 --> 00:03:26,323 I wouldn't say a fortune. I'd say a couple of grand. 70 00:03:26,323 --> 00:03:28,363 Whatever they interpret a fortune as 71 00:03:28,363 --> 00:03:29,963 is what they interpret a fortune as. 72 00:03:29,963 --> 00:03:33,243 But I'd made at least a couple of thousand pounds by that time 73 00:03:33,243 --> 00:03:34,683 through foreign exchange. 74 00:03:34,683 --> 00:03:37,843 So, in the article, you're quoted as saying you can spend one or two 75 00:03:37,843 --> 00:03:41,203 hours a day forex trading and still make money. 76 00:03:41,203 --> 00:03:44,763 "I'm driving a 15-grand Audi and want to upgrade to a 30-grand 77 00:03:44,763 --> 00:03:48,043 "Maserati, and I'm hoping to buy my single mother 78 00:03:48,043 --> 00:03:50,163 "a house in London." 79 00:03:50,163 --> 00:03:54,643 That sounds like you're doing really well out of forex. 80 00:03:54,643 --> 00:03:56,563 I was affiliate marketing for a company 81 00:03:56,563 --> 00:03:59,043 which sold forex courses. 82 00:03:59,043 --> 00:04:02,363 OK, so affiliate marketing is like advertising. 83 00:04:02,363 --> 00:04:07,363 Companies pay influencers to tell you just how great they are. 84 00:04:07,363 --> 00:04:10,763 So were you making more of the money by affiliate marketing... Yeah. 85 00:04:10,763 --> 00:04:12,963 ..than the trading? Yes, I was. 86 00:04:12,963 --> 00:04:17,443 Tell me about the first time you ever heard 87 00:04:17,443 --> 00:04:19,563 from Infinox, or about Infinox, 88 00:04:19,563 --> 00:04:21,483 and talk me through the kind of... 89 00:04:21,483 --> 00:04:24,003 ..who reached out to you and what happened. Yeah. 90 00:04:24,003 --> 00:04:28,443 It was a direct message, actually, from Mirko Notturno. 91 00:04:28,443 --> 00:04:31,523 At the time he claimed he worked for Infinox - 92 00:04:31,523 --> 00:04:33,083 I later found out he didn't - 93 00:04:33,083 --> 00:04:34,763 and he messaged me, telling me, 94 00:04:34,763 --> 00:04:38,003 "Look, you may be interested in a service that we want to offer, 95 00:04:38,003 --> 00:04:41,403 "and why don't you come and meet us? We're a massive company in 96 00:04:41,403 --> 00:04:44,683 "central London, and come over to our office in central London 97 00:04:44,683 --> 00:04:47,123 "and we'll take it from there." And when you went in there, 98 00:04:47,123 --> 00:04:49,483 what did you think you were going in there for? 99 00:04:49,483 --> 00:04:53,683 So a meeting to go over the services that they offered and how I could 100 00:04:53,683 --> 00:04:55,803 bring them clients in exchange for a commission. 101 00:04:55,803 --> 00:04:58,603 So they wanted you to do some marketing? Affiliate marketing. 102 00:04:58,603 --> 00:05:01,403 Affiliate marketing? Yes. How much were they going to pay you? 103 00:05:01,403 --> 00:05:03,243 There was no set fee that they agreed with me. 104 00:05:03,243 --> 00:05:06,443 The deal was, "We'll pay you as you bring in clients," 105 00:05:06,443 --> 00:05:08,163 and they were talking... 106 00:05:08,163 --> 00:05:10,003 The figures they actually said to me were 107 00:05:10,003 --> 00:05:13,483 hundreds of thousands of pounds. And I thought, "Wow!" 108 00:05:13,483 --> 00:05:16,123 I'm 19 here. I'm 19, remember, I'm 19, 109 00:05:16,123 --> 00:05:18,923 and I've walked into this office in central London, 110 00:05:18,923 --> 00:05:20,843 with security everywhere, 111 00:05:20,843 --> 00:05:23,963 they've got desks, like, to me at the time, it looked like hundreds of 112 00:05:23,963 --> 00:05:26,283 desks but it was probably, like, 113 00:05:26,283 --> 00:05:29,723 20, 30 desks, where they call it their trading base, 114 00:05:29,723 --> 00:05:33,883 and had a trading room, had loads of people looking so professional 115 00:05:33,883 --> 00:05:37,363 on their computers, doing trades, they're showing me all of this. 116 00:05:37,363 --> 00:05:42,083 The office was massive, and I'm there at the age of 19, thinking, 117 00:05:42,083 --> 00:05:45,443 "Wow!" And they're saying to me, "Congratulations, you're, like, 118 00:05:45,443 --> 00:05:46,763 "doing so well for yourself." 119 00:05:46,763 --> 00:05:49,123 And they're really bigging me up, if that makes sense. 120 00:05:49,123 --> 00:05:51,723 They're telling me, "You've got such an amazing opportunity here. 121 00:05:51,723 --> 00:05:54,243 "We never thought we'd be offering this opportunity to someone 122 00:05:54,243 --> 00:05:56,763 "of your age. You should be so proud of yourself, your family should be 123 00:05:56,763 --> 00:05:58,203 "so proud of you." 124 00:05:58,203 --> 00:06:02,003 And, yeah, at that point I had a meeting in that office, 125 00:06:02,003 --> 00:06:07,203 in their office, with Tristan Jones and another guy called Bogdan. 126 00:06:07,203 --> 00:06:11,283 Bogdan, yeah. And Mirko was there, as well. So there was three of them. 127 00:06:11,283 --> 00:06:14,803 Do you know what their roles were? Bogdan was higher up than Tristan. 128 00:06:14,803 --> 00:06:18,883 Tristan worked at Infinox, and then eventually I found out 129 00:06:18,883 --> 00:06:21,323 that Mirko was just someone that Tristan had got to go 130 00:06:21,323 --> 00:06:23,363 and get influencers. 131 00:06:23,363 --> 00:06:28,323 During my investigation, I found out there are two Infinoxes - 132 00:06:28,323 --> 00:06:31,043 Infinox UK, which is based in London, 133 00:06:31,043 --> 00:06:33,483 and Infinox Bahamas, which isn't. 134 00:06:34,563 --> 00:06:38,883 Tristan and Bogdan worked out of the Infinox London office, 135 00:06:38,883 --> 00:06:41,683 but for Infinox Bahamas. 136 00:06:41,683 --> 00:06:45,163 Gurvin says he saw Infinox as one big business, 137 00:06:45,163 --> 00:06:49,003 but he was in fact working with Infinox Bahamas. 138 00:06:49,003 --> 00:06:54,363 And at that meeting in the Infinox office, what did they ask you to do? 139 00:06:54,363 --> 00:06:56,443 They told me to... 140 00:06:56,443 --> 00:06:58,803 First he said, "Try out our products." 141 00:06:58,803 --> 00:07:03,803 So they put me on a demo trading account where they copy the trades 142 00:07:03,803 --> 00:07:06,203 on to my thing and I could see that money was being made. 143 00:07:06,203 --> 00:07:10,323 And then they said, "Look, offer this to some of your clients, 144 00:07:10,323 --> 00:07:13,403 "offer it on social media," and I did that to a small amount of people 145 00:07:13,403 --> 00:07:16,323 first, "see how they do and we'll give you a commission." 146 00:07:16,323 --> 00:07:18,123 And... What was that commission? 147 00:07:18,123 --> 00:07:20,883 I think it was £100 or £200 for each person. 148 00:07:20,883 --> 00:07:24,883 So tell me, at the time, of course, you're a biomed student. Mm-hm. 149 00:07:24,883 --> 00:07:28,363 Did you have any qualifications in finance? 150 00:07:28,363 --> 00:07:30,203 No. I did a forex course, though. 151 00:07:30,203 --> 00:07:32,443 Was that course kind of registered to anyone 152 00:07:32,443 --> 00:07:34,523 or was it a kind of, you just...? It was just... 153 00:07:34,523 --> 00:07:36,523 It was an online course. It was an online course? 154 00:07:36,523 --> 00:07:38,443 Online course. OK. Yeah. 155 00:07:38,443 --> 00:07:40,603 So today, do you have any qualifications in finance? 156 00:07:40,603 --> 00:07:41,923 No, I do not. 157 00:07:41,923 --> 00:07:44,443 So, considering you didn't at the time have any qualifications 158 00:07:44,443 --> 00:07:47,283 in finance - of course you'd done an online course but you didn't have 159 00:07:47,283 --> 00:07:49,323 any qualifications, and today you don't have any 160 00:07:49,323 --> 00:07:50,803 qualifications in finance... Yeah. 161 00:07:50,803 --> 00:07:54,243 ..why would someone in that world reach out to you? 162 00:07:54,243 --> 00:07:58,283 Because they saw that I was showing on social media that I was making 163 00:07:58,283 --> 00:08:00,243 money for the foreign exchange market, 164 00:08:00,243 --> 00:08:02,683 and that's why Mirko messaged me. Yeah. 165 00:08:02,683 --> 00:08:05,883 Tell me why you set up the GS3 Trades website. 166 00:08:07,443 --> 00:08:08,603 I didn't. 167 00:08:08,603 --> 00:08:12,283 Each influencer had a client base and they were given a name, 168 00:08:12,283 --> 00:08:15,603 and we were told a website had to be made for the referrals 169 00:08:15,603 --> 00:08:16,963 to come in through. 170 00:08:16,963 --> 00:08:18,923 And I remember actually making that website 171 00:08:18,923 --> 00:08:21,283 with Tristan Jones in the Infinox office myself. 172 00:08:21,283 --> 00:08:23,923 So you did make it, didn't you? Yeah... That's what I'm saying. 173 00:08:23,923 --> 00:08:25,923 So you did make the website? Yeah, we were there. 174 00:08:25,923 --> 00:08:27,363 We were making a website. 175 00:08:27,363 --> 00:08:30,283 So, on that website, of course, here it says... 176 00:08:30,283 --> 00:08:32,283 Just read that for me. 177 00:08:32,283 --> 00:08:34,243 The regulated bit. 178 00:08:34,243 --> 00:08:37,603 "We use an FCA and Bahamas-regulated broker providing 179 00:08:37,603 --> 00:08:39,923 "the fullest technology solutions and designated 180 00:08:39,923 --> 00:08:42,643 "licence account managers." 181 00:08:42,643 --> 00:08:47,483 Remember, FCA stands for Financial Conduct Authority. 182 00:08:47,483 --> 00:08:50,763 If you're regulated by these guys, you have to follow strict rules 183 00:08:50,763 --> 00:08:54,883 which protect the UK public from risky investments. 184 00:08:54,883 --> 00:08:59,843 So when it says "We use a broker regulated by the FCA", 185 00:08:59,843 --> 00:09:02,803 and then it references a Bahamas broker... Yeah. 186 00:09:02,803 --> 00:09:05,243 ..do you know which one it is? Because it can't be both. 187 00:09:05,243 --> 00:09:07,363 It can't be FCA-regulated in the Bahamas, can it? 188 00:09:07,363 --> 00:09:09,163 Great question. I thought... 189 00:09:09,163 --> 00:09:12,123 ..you can be both. I thought it was like a certificate, so I didn't know 190 00:09:12,123 --> 00:09:13,323 what the FCA thing was. 191 00:09:13,323 --> 00:09:16,403 I thought it was like certificates. "Oh, we're UK-regulated, 192 00:09:16,403 --> 00:09:19,363 "we're Bahamas-regulated, so we're allowed to run our company in these 193 00:09:19,363 --> 00:09:22,403 "different countries, but it's the same company," if that makes sense. 194 00:09:22,403 --> 00:09:25,643 So I thought of it as FCA-regulated and Bahamas-regulated, 195 00:09:25,643 --> 00:09:28,883 so they've got the backing from both of those countries, 196 00:09:28,883 --> 00:09:31,683 if that makes sense. So that's how I've seen it when I've... 197 00:09:31,683 --> 00:09:34,043 Obviously, I've been told by Tristan to write that. 198 00:09:34,043 --> 00:09:37,163 So you're essentially saying you wrote that on your website, 199 00:09:37,163 --> 00:09:39,603 but you didn't know what it meant. Is that right? 200 00:09:39,603 --> 00:09:42,403 I was with Tristan when he told me to write it on the website. 201 00:09:42,403 --> 00:09:45,123 I wouldn't say the website's just mine, if that makes sense. 202 00:09:45,123 --> 00:09:47,803 But it's in your name and they couldn't have done it without you. 203 00:09:47,803 --> 00:09:50,563 I mean, if someone said to me at that point, 204 00:09:50,563 --> 00:09:53,883 "I want a thing called MA Trades and just stick this stuff on it," 205 00:09:53,883 --> 00:09:56,803 I'd say, "I'm not putting that in my name." I think it's reasonable to 206 00:09:56,803 --> 00:09:59,723 say you should have checked if the information on there was 207 00:09:59,723 --> 00:10:02,643 factual, but it does go beyond that... OK. ..because if you take a 208 00:10:02,643 --> 00:10:04,843 look at this - these are some screengrabs of 209 00:10:04,843 --> 00:10:07,043 your correspondence with people. Yeah. 210 00:10:07,043 --> 00:10:09,803 Someone has asked, "Is this FCA-regulated?" 211 00:10:09,803 --> 00:10:12,483 That's your response. What have you written there? 212 00:10:12,483 --> 00:10:15,683 "Of course, fully regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority." 213 00:10:15,683 --> 00:10:19,163 Two things with that... So let's just read that again. 214 00:10:19,163 --> 00:10:23,603 "Of course, fully regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority." 215 00:10:23,603 --> 00:10:26,123 You're not saying there, "I'm not sure." 216 00:10:26,123 --> 00:10:29,123 You're not saying, "Let me come back to you." 217 00:10:29,123 --> 00:10:31,403 You're saying, "Of course, fully regulated 218 00:10:31,403 --> 00:10:33,403 "by the Financial Conduct Authority." 219 00:10:33,403 --> 00:10:37,603 Anyone reading that would think that was a slam-dunk answer. 220 00:10:37,603 --> 00:10:40,923 Yeah, and that phone number is not mine. 221 00:10:40,923 --> 00:10:44,043 We had six support staff working for us. 222 00:10:44,043 --> 00:10:47,323 I chose them. I'm not saying Infinox chose them. They are chosen by me. 223 00:10:47,323 --> 00:10:51,163 They will come with me to Infinox, and met with Infinox in a separate 224 00:10:51,163 --> 00:10:54,043 meeting, and those six support staff... 225 00:10:54,043 --> 00:10:56,843 If you speak to all the clients, they've all got a different number 226 00:10:56,843 --> 00:10:58,923 for me. There's, like, six or seven different numbers. 227 00:10:58,923 --> 00:11:00,243 I didn't have six or seven phones. 228 00:11:00,243 --> 00:11:02,283 Each of these phones has gone to different people 229 00:11:02,283 --> 00:11:06,163 who were in charge of onboarding the clients, and that message was not 230 00:11:06,163 --> 00:11:10,203 sent by me, actually. So the number with your profile picture on it, 231 00:11:10,203 --> 00:11:13,803 are you saying that...? That is my profile picture, but that's not me 232 00:11:13,803 --> 00:11:15,803 in charge of that phone, if that makes sense. 233 00:11:15,803 --> 00:11:17,643 Are you saying you're not responding here? 234 00:11:17,643 --> 00:11:18,883 No, that's not me responding. 235 00:11:18,883 --> 00:11:22,203 So are you aware that other people are responding and pretending 236 00:11:22,203 --> 00:11:23,603 to be you? Yeah. 237 00:11:23,603 --> 00:11:26,403 Do you think that might be an error in judgment? 238 00:11:26,403 --> 00:11:28,643 I'd say so, but of course, at that time I'm 19, 239 00:11:28,643 --> 00:11:31,123 I've received thousands of messages from people wanting 240 00:11:31,123 --> 00:11:33,363 to join this service. I can't manage them all by myself. 241 00:11:33,363 --> 00:11:36,203 Yeah. I've given them to friends, etc. 242 00:11:36,203 --> 00:11:38,803 I mean, you're 19, but you are an adult and you're not 243 00:11:38,803 --> 00:11:40,523 stupid, I'm assuming. Of course. 244 00:11:40,523 --> 00:11:43,963 So, at that point, you know, do you think that was a mistake? 245 00:11:43,963 --> 00:11:46,403 But you have to remember, I didn't think this was something 246 00:11:46,403 --> 00:11:48,683 that was going to turn out how it turned out. 247 00:11:48,683 --> 00:11:52,963 You told clients at the time that GS3 Trades was your company. 248 00:11:52,963 --> 00:11:56,403 Mm-hm. Was that true? GS3 Trades isn't a company. 249 00:11:56,403 --> 00:12:01,363 GS3 Trades is a name of my clientele that I brought over to Infinox. 250 00:12:01,363 --> 00:12:03,443 Like a kind of mask, really. Yeah, yeah. 251 00:12:03,443 --> 00:12:07,323 So my question, then, is, if it was just a mask and it was an entity, 252 00:12:07,323 --> 00:12:10,283 when articles are referencing you and saying you're making 253 00:12:10,283 --> 00:12:13,683 a fortune and referencing GS3 Trades, did you not think 254 00:12:13,683 --> 00:12:17,243 at that point you should say, "Hold on a minute, this isn't my company 255 00:12:17,243 --> 00:12:20,363 "and I'm just a front for someone else's business"? 256 00:12:20,363 --> 00:12:23,483 I guess they wanted... I see it now, as I'm older - 257 00:12:23,483 --> 00:12:25,603 I'm 23 now - I see it that they 258 00:12:25,603 --> 00:12:28,203 wanted me to be the face of whatever they was doing. 259 00:12:28,203 --> 00:12:31,403 So you think you just got swept up in it and made some mistakes? 260 00:12:31,403 --> 00:12:34,963 Yeah, I'd say that. Is that fair to say? Cos the thing is, today you're 261 00:12:34,963 --> 00:12:37,043 saying it wasn't your company. 262 00:12:37,043 --> 00:12:38,243 At the time... 263 00:12:38,243 --> 00:12:40,803 So this is from the GS3 page. 264 00:12:40,803 --> 00:12:43,123 This was posted on your Instagram feed. Yeah. 265 00:12:43,123 --> 00:12:45,923 Just read that for me. GS3, number one, what does it say? 266 00:12:45,923 --> 00:12:49,123 "Invest £500 and GS3 will trade your account for you." 267 00:12:49,123 --> 00:12:53,083 So, at that point, you're saying, "Invest £500 and GS3 268 00:12:53,083 --> 00:12:55,403 "will trade your account for you." Mm-hm. 269 00:12:56,603 --> 00:12:59,363 Were you able to trade anyone's account for them? No, I wasn't, 270 00:12:59,363 --> 00:13:02,883 but also... So that's not true, is it? ..as you see the screenshot... 271 00:13:02,883 --> 00:13:05,603 That's not true. No, no, it's not true. No, it's not true. 272 00:13:05,603 --> 00:13:09,443 So why - if that's a lie, why did you stick that on your Instagram? 273 00:13:09,443 --> 00:13:10,843 They told me to post it. 274 00:13:10,843 --> 00:13:13,283 In my eyes, it's like having an employer. 275 00:13:13,283 --> 00:13:17,123 If someone who's paying your wages and paying you tells you to do 276 00:13:17,123 --> 00:13:20,083 something, I ain't going to double-think it. 277 00:13:20,083 --> 00:13:21,563 I ain't going to double-cross it. 278 00:13:21,563 --> 00:13:25,403 Thing is, if my employer asked me to tell a lie, I wouldn't do it. 279 00:13:25,403 --> 00:13:27,363 Yeah, no... That's not double-thinking it. 280 00:13:27,363 --> 00:13:29,763 It's just my instinct. It's just thinking it. 281 00:13:29,763 --> 00:13:32,083 So it appears that you're saying you just didn't think. 282 00:13:32,083 --> 00:13:34,723 On your social media, something that you posted was a lie? 283 00:13:34,723 --> 00:13:37,203 Um... Yeah. It was, yeah? 284 00:13:37,203 --> 00:13:40,963 And the thing is, of course, that prompts a warning from the FCA. 285 00:13:40,963 --> 00:13:44,763 So you end up in a situation where we know you're not FCA-regulated. 286 00:13:44,763 --> 00:13:49,043 The FCA say, "We believe this firm may be providing financial services 287 00:13:49,043 --> 00:13:52,203 "or products in the UK without our authorisation. 288 00:13:52,203 --> 00:13:56,563 "The firm is not authorised by us and is targeting people in the UK. 289 00:13:56,563 --> 00:13:59,483 "Unauthorised firm, Gurvin Singh Dyal 290 00:13:59,483 --> 00:14:03,283 "and GS3 Trades, GS3 Marketing Ltd." Yeah. 291 00:14:03,283 --> 00:14:06,403 So this is after Infinox, they've put that warning, not during this. 292 00:14:06,403 --> 00:14:09,763 This has come straight, like, way after Infinox... 293 00:14:09,763 --> 00:14:12,243 So the thing is, here, you've said you're trading, 294 00:14:12,243 --> 00:14:16,043 so if you were trading, you were doing that illegally 295 00:14:16,043 --> 00:14:19,483 because you're not FCA-regulated, and if you weren't trading 296 00:14:19,483 --> 00:14:22,443 then you were lying to clients. So which one was it? 297 00:14:22,443 --> 00:14:24,883 I wasn't trading. So you were lying to clients? 298 00:14:24,883 --> 00:14:27,763 No, I wasn't trading to clients, on behalf of clients. 299 00:14:27,763 --> 00:14:30,323 Is it fair to say you were lying to clients? 300 00:14:30,323 --> 00:14:32,603 It's fair to say... No, it's fair to say that, 301 00:14:32,603 --> 00:14:35,203 but it's also fair to say I was listening to the instructions 302 00:14:35,203 --> 00:14:37,603 of those who I felt employed me, sending it through email, 303 00:14:37,603 --> 00:14:40,643 telling me to post this. I'm 19. I'm not seeing people lose money. 304 00:14:40,643 --> 00:14:42,083 I'm seeing people make money. 305 00:14:42,083 --> 00:14:44,003 I'm just not double-thinking it at this point. 306 00:14:44,003 --> 00:14:46,283 So let me be really clear, because I think 307 00:14:46,283 --> 00:14:47,763 this is really important. 308 00:14:47,763 --> 00:14:50,403 So you're saying, because people who were a bit older 309 00:14:50,403 --> 00:14:53,923 than you were telling you to lie, you thought it was OK to lie? 310 00:14:53,923 --> 00:14:56,843 My bosses told me to post something on my social media. 311 00:14:56,843 --> 00:14:59,723 That's what I'm going to do. So you did it. I understand, 312 00:14:59,723 --> 00:15:02,403 and that's entirely your prerogative. 313 00:15:02,403 --> 00:15:03,683 I think you went, 314 00:15:03,683 --> 00:15:08,403 and I think there's a lot to suggest that you went way beyond marketing, 315 00:15:08,403 --> 00:15:11,643 because, actually, let's take a look at this, 316 00:15:11,643 --> 00:15:14,003 this screengrab, right? 317 00:15:14,003 --> 00:15:17,803 "After 90 days, can I withdraw money whenever I want?" 318 00:15:17,803 --> 00:15:20,843 You say... Read that for me. "Correct. 319 00:15:20,843 --> 00:15:23,563 "You can withdraw it whenever you want." "Awesome." 320 00:15:23,563 --> 00:15:26,923 The thing is, at this point, your job, you've said 321 00:15:26,923 --> 00:15:29,283 you've been brought in for affiliate marketing. Yeah. 322 00:15:29,283 --> 00:15:31,803 That goes way beyond marketing, doesn't it? 323 00:15:31,803 --> 00:15:33,163 I get what you're saying. 324 00:15:33,163 --> 00:15:36,003 And, for me, it was just me being very open, because I could 325 00:15:36,003 --> 00:15:38,563 have easily just put them in and left, and left them there. 326 00:15:38,563 --> 00:15:41,523 But once again, when you're telling people you can withdraw 327 00:15:41,523 --> 00:15:44,443 whenever you want... At this point, as this message was sent, 328 00:15:44,443 --> 00:15:47,563 that was the facts, if that makes sense. Let's be really clear. 329 00:15:47,563 --> 00:15:49,843 At the point people did try to withdraw, 330 00:15:49,843 --> 00:15:51,883 they weren't only told that they couldn't, 331 00:15:51,883 --> 00:15:54,363 they were abused - and they were abused by you. 332 00:15:54,363 --> 00:15:59,603 So if we look here, these are some WhatsApp exchanges. Read that to me. 333 00:15:59,603 --> 00:16:02,243 "No wonder half of you can't go anywhere in your lives. 334 00:16:02,243 --> 00:16:04,283 "Can't you read?" And what do you say here? 335 00:16:04,283 --> 00:16:06,243 This is people talking about withdrawing. 336 00:16:06,243 --> 00:16:08,923 You said, "This group is fucking crazy. You guys are stupid." 337 00:16:08,923 --> 00:16:11,803 That's what you say. "Why the...?" Can I carry on...? 338 00:16:11,803 --> 00:16:14,843 Yeah, please. "Why the fuck do people message me, going, 339 00:16:14,843 --> 00:16:17,683 "'I'm not on the list.'? I said message me on if you're on the list. 340 00:16:17,683 --> 00:16:20,443 "Can't you read? I give up, man." This is just a group chat with me, 341 00:16:20,443 --> 00:16:23,163 and you can say me and my followers... There's jokes going in 342 00:16:23,163 --> 00:16:25,683 this group chat, there's people sending, like, jokes 343 00:16:25,683 --> 00:16:28,403 and stuff like that. There's also people really concerned about 344 00:16:28,403 --> 00:16:30,323 thousands of pounds that they've invested, 345 00:16:30,323 --> 00:16:32,963 and you're saying, "This group is fucking crazy, 346 00:16:32,963 --> 00:16:34,163 "you guys are stupid. 347 00:16:34,163 --> 00:16:37,243 "No wonder you guys can't get anywhere with your lives." 348 00:16:37,243 --> 00:16:40,203 That goes way beyond affiliate marketing. I get that. 349 00:16:40,203 --> 00:16:42,963 You are now managing the group and you're telling people 350 00:16:42,963 --> 00:16:46,363 that they're stupid, you're abusing them. I regret that now. 351 00:16:46,363 --> 00:16:49,683 I wouldn't write like that now. You wouldn't write that now? No. 352 00:16:49,683 --> 00:16:51,883 Is there a moment where you wish you'd said, 353 00:16:51,883 --> 00:16:53,843 "Guys, I'm in way over my head, 354 00:16:53,843 --> 00:16:55,523 "I don't actually know what I'm doing, 355 00:16:55,523 --> 00:16:56,963 "I'm not actually a trader, 356 00:16:56,963 --> 00:16:58,643 "I've got no qualifications, 357 00:16:58,643 --> 00:17:00,003 "this has been a lie"? 358 00:17:00,003 --> 00:17:03,043 Do you think that would have been a better way to handle it? 359 00:17:03,043 --> 00:17:05,563 But at this point, all the clients knew that I wasn't the one 360 00:17:05,563 --> 00:17:08,763 trading for them. So whilst they're all in this group, they know I'm 361 00:17:08,763 --> 00:17:12,163 not trading. They know I have not lied and said that I am trading. 362 00:17:12,163 --> 00:17:14,923 OK, I may have said it at the beginning here, but before they've 363 00:17:14,923 --> 00:17:17,803 onboarded, they signed documents where they've said, 364 00:17:17,803 --> 00:17:20,243 "Yes, we agree, we know Infinox are trading." 365 00:17:20,243 --> 00:17:22,803 If you're referring to it as a third party and you're just kind 366 00:17:22,803 --> 00:17:25,003 of, you know, you don't really know what you're doing 367 00:17:25,003 --> 00:17:27,443 and you're suggesting it's really clear, why, then, on 368 00:17:27,443 --> 00:17:30,603 23/07/2019, you say on a group chat, 369 00:17:30,603 --> 00:17:33,843 "These are trades that are run at the moment which are in strong 370 00:17:33,843 --> 00:17:36,883 "winning positions, but you can't see them as they're 371 00:17:36,883 --> 00:17:39,763 "not closed trades"? Yeah. And then you go on. 372 00:17:39,763 --> 00:17:42,963 That to me isn't someone saying, "I don't really know what I'm doing 373 00:17:42,963 --> 00:17:44,723 "and the trading is by someone else." 374 00:17:44,723 --> 00:17:47,603 You're saying these trades that are on at the moment 375 00:17:47,603 --> 00:17:50,363 are on strong winning positions, 376 00:17:50,363 --> 00:17:52,283 or you're suggesting that you know 377 00:17:52,283 --> 00:17:55,243 what you're talking about. At that point where you sound 378 00:17:55,243 --> 00:17:57,043 like you know what you're talking about, 379 00:17:57,043 --> 00:18:00,683 are you lying then, or are you lying today? 380 00:18:00,683 --> 00:18:02,003 What do you mean? 381 00:18:02,003 --> 00:18:04,283 So did you know what you were talking about there? 382 00:18:04,283 --> 00:18:07,243 No, I'm forwarding the message on. You're forwarding the message. 383 00:18:07,243 --> 00:18:09,803 So that... So you wouldn't accredit that to yourself? 384 00:18:09,803 --> 00:18:12,763 You didn't really believe trades were in a strong winning position, 385 00:18:12,763 --> 00:18:15,563 even though that was accredited to your number and you sent it out 386 00:18:15,563 --> 00:18:16,643 from your phone? 387 00:18:16,643 --> 00:18:19,803 But then you have to remember, this is such a big company to me. 388 00:18:19,803 --> 00:18:22,203 They're telling me to forward this on to the clients. 389 00:18:22,203 --> 00:18:25,043 You don't take any responsibility for that? No, so... No, I don't. 390 00:18:25,043 --> 00:18:29,043 Let's just focus on the clients that you'd recruited. Yeah. 391 00:18:29,043 --> 00:18:32,883 So the people that you'd referred - and I've spoken to lots of them - 392 00:18:32,883 --> 00:18:35,843 the thing is, Gurvin, a lot of those people believe 393 00:18:35,843 --> 00:18:37,363 that you scammed them. 394 00:18:37,363 --> 00:18:40,203 Yeah, of course. Do you understand that? No, I do... 395 00:18:40,203 --> 00:18:41,843 So how would you respond to them? 396 00:18:41,843 --> 00:18:44,563 I do get why, and I need the clients to know 397 00:18:44,563 --> 00:18:47,923 that I didn't benefit from this. If I did, literally, I would say, 398 00:18:47,923 --> 00:18:50,643 but I was a victim because I've lost money, as well. 399 00:18:50,643 --> 00:18:53,363 I've been brought down in my financial gain 400 00:18:53,363 --> 00:18:54,803 at that point, as well. 401 00:18:54,803 --> 00:18:57,923 And we hit January, February and my finances are lower 402 00:18:57,923 --> 00:19:00,563 than before I started doing Infinox, OK? 403 00:19:00,563 --> 00:19:04,083 I've lost money in the process because of the marketing. 404 00:19:04,083 --> 00:19:07,523 With the people we're talking about specifically here, 350 people 405 00:19:07,523 --> 00:19:10,963 in this group, they've lost thousands and thousands of pounds. 406 00:19:10,963 --> 00:19:14,803 I've spoken to people directly that were recruited by you, who put 407 00:19:14,803 --> 00:19:18,883 in their student loans, who put in their life savings, who borrowed 408 00:19:18,883 --> 00:19:21,363 money from family members. Mm-hm. 409 00:19:21,363 --> 00:19:24,043 Do you acknowledge that they wouldn't have invested 410 00:19:24,043 --> 00:19:27,923 their money if you hadn't have been complicit in this lie? 411 00:19:27,923 --> 00:19:30,643 Agree, but if it wasn't them, it would have been someone else, 412 00:19:30,643 --> 00:19:33,483 because Infinox would have got a different influencer to market it. 413 00:19:33,483 --> 00:19:36,563 You know Jonathan. 414 00:19:36,563 --> 00:19:39,643 So Jonathan is one of the guys that I spoke to. Yeah, I've heard of him. 415 00:19:39,643 --> 00:19:44,163 Jonathan specifically lost £17,000 of his money. 416 00:19:44,163 --> 00:19:47,563 Do you acknowledge that for someone like Jonathan, and all those other 417 00:19:47,563 --> 00:19:50,403 people that lost money because of a scheme that you'd recruited them 418 00:19:50,403 --> 00:19:52,043 to, it's frustrating? Yes, very. 419 00:19:52,043 --> 00:19:54,683 I'd be in the same boat and I'd really hate me 420 00:19:54,683 --> 00:19:55,803 if I was them, as well. 421 00:19:55,803 --> 00:19:59,603 But wasn't everyone just being naive to Infinox, who were actually 422 00:19:59,603 --> 00:20:02,043 the ones who were the ones feeding these lies? 423 00:20:02,043 --> 00:20:04,563 I think primarily because you were the one doing the pushing, 424 00:20:04,563 --> 00:20:06,963 they were the clients, you were the one doing the pushing. 425 00:20:06,963 --> 00:20:09,123 They got their friends and family involved, as well. 426 00:20:09,123 --> 00:20:11,763 They were pushing. It's not the same thing, though, is it? 427 00:20:11,763 --> 00:20:14,483 There wasn't a Jonathan Trades that was registered and, you know, 428 00:20:14,483 --> 00:20:18,323 sparked a backlash from the FCA for not being regulated. 429 00:20:18,323 --> 00:20:21,403 There is a Gurvin Singh 3 Trades. No, I get that. 430 00:20:21,403 --> 00:20:25,283 But my communication was directly with Infinox, everything I thought I 431 00:20:25,283 --> 00:20:27,803 was doing was because Infinox told me to, 432 00:20:27,803 --> 00:20:29,883 and I thought it was all factual. 433 00:20:29,883 --> 00:20:32,603 I want to talk to you about the culture because you have said 434 00:20:32,603 --> 00:20:35,443 publicly that you've been on social media since the age of 11. Yeah. 435 00:20:35,443 --> 00:20:38,243 Something that you said - I was watching since you unblocked me 436 00:20:38,243 --> 00:20:39,723 from your Instagram. Yeah. 437 00:20:39,723 --> 00:20:42,083 You said, "I could save so much money if I wasn't 438 00:20:42,083 --> 00:20:44,083 "staying in the Shard as much as I do. 439 00:20:44,083 --> 00:20:47,603 "The main reason I do it is because I know you guys 440 00:20:47,603 --> 00:20:50,443 "like watching that." Mm-hm. 441 00:20:50,443 --> 00:20:52,563 Do you worry that you've been 442 00:20:52,563 --> 00:20:54,923 presenting a kind of distorted 443 00:20:54,923 --> 00:20:56,923 version of reality for so long 444 00:20:56,923 --> 00:21:00,283 that you've lost the ability to kind of keep in touch with what's 445 00:21:00,283 --> 00:21:03,043 actually real and what your life is actually about? 446 00:21:03,043 --> 00:21:05,043 Um, so, just a very great question. 447 00:21:05,043 --> 00:21:07,043 I wouldn't say I've lost touch with myself. 448 00:21:07,043 --> 00:21:10,403 As I said, like, literally, as we sat here, I actually had a free meal 449 00:21:10,403 --> 00:21:12,963 on the way here, as I told you, at the temple. Sure. You asked me 450 00:21:12,963 --> 00:21:15,243 what I had for breakfast. I told you I went to the temple. 451 00:21:15,243 --> 00:21:17,843 I guess my question isn't about losing touch with yourself. 452 00:21:17,843 --> 00:21:19,763 It's about losing touch with reality. Mm-hm. 453 00:21:19,763 --> 00:21:23,483 Because, of course, you post a lot, saying you're staying in the Shard. 454 00:21:23,483 --> 00:21:26,283 Yeah. When I found you, you weren't at the Shard. You were at your 455 00:21:26,283 --> 00:21:29,083 parents' house in East London. And there's nothing wrong with that. 456 00:21:29,083 --> 00:21:31,683 Your parents have a decent house. Yeah. It's an average house. 457 00:21:31,683 --> 00:21:35,523 There's nothing wrong with that. What I'm asking you is, 458 00:21:35,523 --> 00:21:39,123 your reality online isn't your reality in real life, 459 00:21:39,123 --> 00:21:41,523 so are you worried about losing touch with reality? 460 00:21:41,523 --> 00:21:44,123 No, I mean, you've only been watching my social media recently. 461 00:21:44,123 --> 00:21:47,603 If you do watch my social media now, I show my home, that makes sense. 462 00:21:47,603 --> 00:21:49,603 I show me taking my dog on a walk daily. 463 00:21:49,603 --> 00:21:51,763 I show every aspect of my life. 464 00:21:51,763 --> 00:21:55,443 I mean, since you unblocked me, I have looked at your Instagram 465 00:21:55,443 --> 00:21:59,523 and I've seen pictures of you with a helicopter, pictures 466 00:21:59,523 --> 00:22:02,403 with you going to a particular hotel, you know, pictures 467 00:22:02,403 --> 00:22:05,723 of you travelling, all that kind of stuff. You know, is there a bit 468 00:22:05,723 --> 00:22:08,243 of you that thinks, "OK, maybe it's time for a bit of humility 469 00:22:08,243 --> 00:22:11,563 "and not to be constantly presenting this version of reality, 470 00:22:11,563 --> 00:22:14,803 "which isn't real"? Well, it is real, I was with a helicopter, 471 00:22:14,803 --> 00:22:16,563 I took the picture of the helicopter. 472 00:22:16,563 --> 00:22:19,763 If I'm driving my supercar down the road, it's my supercar. 473 00:22:19,763 --> 00:22:22,003 You get what I'm trying to say? So it is real. It's... 474 00:22:22,003 --> 00:22:24,523 You can't say it's not real, if you get what I'm trying to say, 475 00:22:24,523 --> 00:22:26,123 because it is real for me. 476 00:22:26,123 --> 00:22:28,923 It's not an accurate representation of your life, is it? 477 00:22:28,923 --> 00:22:30,283 Why would you say that? 478 00:22:30,283 --> 00:22:33,803 Because posting lots of pictures from the Shard is very different 479 00:22:33,803 --> 00:22:37,043 from posting lots of pictures from your bedroom in East London, 480 00:22:37,043 --> 00:22:40,243 which is where I found you. It's two different things. 481 00:22:40,243 --> 00:22:43,243 But then where do I spend most of my time? That's what you have to 482 00:22:43,243 --> 00:22:46,083 weigh up, as well, if you get what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I think you 483 00:22:46,083 --> 00:22:48,843 spend most of the time at your parents' house because that's where 484 00:22:48,843 --> 00:22:51,603 I found you. No, I agree with you there. I do spend most of my time 485 00:22:51,603 --> 00:22:54,483 at my parents' house. You can see that. I just... I think the reason 486 00:22:54,483 --> 00:22:56,843 I'm asking you about kind of connection with reality 487 00:22:56,843 --> 00:22:58,563 is because I think there is a theme - 488 00:22:58,563 --> 00:23:00,883 I don't mean this to be offensive, but there's a theme 489 00:23:00,883 --> 00:23:04,883 about - if I'm being kind - I'd say being economical with the truth. 490 00:23:04,883 --> 00:23:08,323 Right? So, recently, these are some statements that you put out. 491 00:23:08,323 --> 00:23:11,603 You said, "I got a phone call from the guy doing the documentary." 492 00:23:11,603 --> 00:23:13,163 I'm assuming that's me. Yeah? Mm-hm. 493 00:23:13,163 --> 00:23:15,603 "Everyone can see I want to move on with my life, 494 00:23:15,603 --> 00:23:17,963 "so I said no." Mm-hm. 495 00:23:17,963 --> 00:23:20,683 "I told him I'm not interested in his documentary and not 496 00:23:20,683 --> 00:23:22,123 "to contact me again." 497 00:23:22,123 --> 00:23:24,843 Right, we both know that isn't true. 498 00:23:24,843 --> 00:23:26,563 You blocked me on Instagram. 499 00:23:26,563 --> 00:23:30,843 You told me your name was Govinda Atwell, and I had a wrong number. 500 00:23:30,843 --> 00:23:36,203 Right? You had every opportunity to respond to these allegations 501 00:23:36,203 --> 00:23:38,083 and yet you chose not to. 502 00:23:38,083 --> 00:23:39,923 I was instructed by my lawyer not to. 503 00:23:39,923 --> 00:23:42,163 I've even been instructed today not to come. 504 00:23:42,163 --> 00:23:46,003 But I feel like, if I hide from it, then you're going to make me look 505 00:23:46,003 --> 00:23:48,683 worse, and I want the truth to get out there, 506 00:23:48,683 --> 00:23:50,843 so I've had to take my own decision on that. 507 00:23:50,843 --> 00:23:53,883 Is there anything else you want to say? I need people to know that 508 00:23:53,883 --> 00:23:56,883 everything I did was because these guys who I've looked at and looked 509 00:23:56,883 --> 00:23:59,683 at and gone, "Wow," like, I'm so happy at this point 510 00:23:59,683 --> 00:24:01,643 that I'm working for these guys, 511 00:24:01,643 --> 00:24:04,603 I've done what they've told me to and it's come out 512 00:24:04,603 --> 00:24:08,203 now that obviously a lot of stuff that they've made me say was lies. 513 00:24:08,203 --> 00:24:12,163 And I apologise for not looking into that further, 514 00:24:12,163 --> 00:24:13,603 but at that point 515 00:24:13,603 --> 00:24:17,003 I guess people need to see that there's two sides of the story.