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**

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-You know somebody's successful
in this business

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when they've got
a lot of job titles.

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My guest today,
well, they're one of them.

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She's a writer, producer, actor,

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business mentor,
content creator,

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and is on her way to becoming --
can I say it?

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I feel like I should -- a mogul.

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Ladies and gentlemen,
please welcome Issa Rae.

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Holy shit.
-Wow. One take.

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-Holy -- I mean...
-You are a professional.

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-Is it not amazing?
-Wow. Hello.

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-Hurry up and sit down
'cause you taller than me.

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-Okay.
-Hurry up and sit down.

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Welcome.
I'm excited about this one.

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-I'm very excited.

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Thank you so much
for having me on.

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-I'm, like, really excited
about this one.

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-This is an impressive set.
I just got to say that.

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-You like the set?
-Yeah, I do.

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-What do you like about it?
-It just has so much depth.

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-Yeah. Yeah.
-It's just like...

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-Yeah.
-...wow.

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I'm really in a wine cellar.

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-Well, I'mma to take you there.
-Okay.

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-That's the thing
about being on this show.

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I'm gonna take you
on a full experience, right?

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-I'm here.
-By the way,

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your level of comfort
has to come

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from the environment
that you're in.

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That's what this
is based off of.

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-Okay.
-You do know that?

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-I'm always comfortable
around bottles of wine.

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-Okay. Well, then we're
about to have a good time.

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Issa, I want to welcome you
to "Hart to Heart."

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-Thank you.

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-I hope you know what we do
on this show.

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If you do not, I'll give you
a brief description.

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We have real conversations,
great conversations.

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But these conversations happen
over an amazing glass of wine.

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Right?
I think over a glass of wine,

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amazing conversations happen.

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And that's what I can only
hope that'll happen today.

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That being said,
let me get my somm out here.

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Look at this.
-Hi!

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-Hello, hello.
-Oh, snap.

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-Mm-hmm.
-Mr. Hart, Mrs. Rae.

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So from the cellar today --

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Central Otago, South Island,
New Zealand, Pinot Noir.

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For Mrs. Rae, we've got
a beautiful champagne,

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Champagne France, rosé,

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Pinot Noir, Pinot Meunier,
as well as Chardonnay.

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-And it's Black-owned.
-Yes it is.

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-I love it.
-Both. Both.

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-Let's go. Come on.
-Absolutely.

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Mr. Hart, may I pour her first?
-Absolutely. Absolutely.

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-And would you care for some
of the Pinot Noir, as well?

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-You know what?
Fuck it. Yeah.

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Let's go bold.
-Ain't nothing better

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than somebody with a problem
that's okay with it.

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That's the best --
Somebody's that's got a problem

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and looks you dead in the eye
and says, "Fuck it.

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It's gonna be
what it's gonna be."

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I'm gonna do --
I'm gonna do me."

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-Okay.
-Give me a chance.

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-Please enjoy both --
once again, Pinot Chardonnay

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and Pinot Meunier,
but 100% Pinot Noir,

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elegant, lifted, bright, floral.
-Get in there.

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-And look for a little bit
of toasted brioche on this.

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-Not toasted brioche.
-Absolutely.

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Please enjoy.
-I will.

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-Which one do you want?

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Which one you want
to go with first?

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-I want to go with this first,
a little bubbly.

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He's so articulate.

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That's what you have to do
in sommelier school.

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You have to be articulate.

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-Well, you have to know
not only the meaning

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of all the things
they're talking about,

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but you got to be able
to pronounce it.

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-Well, I failed.
-Cheers.

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-Cheers.
-To you being on the show.

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Issa, I'm gonna take a sip, man,
and then I'mma start.

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I got a lot of questions
for you, a lot of questions.

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-Okay.
-Alright?

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That's good.
I don't even drink champagne.

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-It's very good. I'm sorry.
I forgot to mention that.

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I was already --
I love it.

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-No, I don't even drink
champagne, but that's good.

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Alright, my biggest thing
for you

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is the understanding
that I have of you.

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And I feel like today
I get to walk away

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with a much different
understanding,

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because this is our first time
having, like,

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an in-depth conversation, right?
-Yeah.

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-From Los Angeles.
-Yep.

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-Inglewood?
-From L.A.

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I'm from View Park,
but, you know,

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I was born
in Inglewood Hospital.

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-Okay.

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-And my grandparents
live in Inglewood.

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A lot of people think
I'm from Inglewood,

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but I'm from South L.A.

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-Here's what I love the most
about you

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that I've seen from afar
and I'm starting to see more of.

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It's not just about
where you're from,

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it's about the changes
that you are very adamant

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about making from the places
you grew up in.

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You're very serious
about your culture.

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You're very serious
about uplifting

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and creating opportunities
for your people,

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especially in the places
you come from, right?

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"I want to see change here."

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Was that a thing
that was always there?

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-The "I want to see change here"

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was a thing
that was always there.

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For me initially, because
I didn't know any better,

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it came from
in front of the camera.

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It came from, like, the images
that I wanted to see

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just because I had --
I had seen them.

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I had grown up on them,
so I knew it was possible.

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And so then when it was taken
away when I was watching TV

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in, like, high school
and college, movies,

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I was like, "Where's all
this stuff that I grew up on?"

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Like, you know,
"Where are these stories,

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and why is it just kind of

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the same narrative
that's being shown?

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I know we're more than this."

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And so, like, even creating
was born out of a frustration.

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And then when I did that online
and started making the content,

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I was like, "Oh, there are
all these other jobs."

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And initially it just came
from my circle.

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Like, these are
the people I know,

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and so they're helping me
to make this.

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They happened to be Black

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because most of my friends
are Black.

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And then, you know,
then by extension,

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we're bringing on,
you know, more diverse crew.

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And then it wasn't until
I would work on

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smaller things, other sets,

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and I'd be like,
"Damn, this is like..."

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I didn't realize
how rare this is

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to work with other
people of color.

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Like, Hollywood is very,
very white behind the camera.

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And so then it became like,
"Well, if I get my own show,

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like, I still want
to replicate this,

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'cause I see that it's a rarity.

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And why not?
'Cause I can."

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-How did you figure it out,
though?

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How did you figure out
the development space

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of "Awkward Black Girl"?
Right?

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Like you said, you came up,
you wanted to act.

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You knew that that's what
you wanted to do.

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But a lot of people
struggle with the,

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"Well, what's my entry?"

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You were a hot commodity

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just in the next version
of a thing.

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"This girl is a star.

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Like, oh, my God,
you got to watch this girl."

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Like, creating that
and then developing that,

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like, where did
that understanding come from?

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Was that college that gave you
that knowledge?

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-Yeah, a little bit.

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I mean, not for myself,
in particular.

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But, like, people don't know
that "Awkward Black Girl"

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was, like, the third
web series that I made.

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It was the third attempt.

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And it's the only one
that I was in.

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The first two that I made,
you know,

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I wrote and directed them,
edited them,

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all those things, you know,
that you're doing

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when you're making
online content yourself.

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And, you know, the first one
I did do in college,

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and that was starring
my friends,

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and I loved the response

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that that got just
from college to college.

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And, you know, it was about
being Black at Stanford,

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called "Dorm Diaries."

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And that was like, "Oh, okay.

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I made something
that people like,

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and it's spreading
beyond my friend group.

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This is dope."

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And I just made it online,

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and then I still wanted
to sell it to TV.

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So I was trying to, like, reach
into my network to be like,

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"Hey, I made this show.

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People really like it online.

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It's only like 500
to 1,000 people,

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but, you know, it's something."

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And they didn't want it.

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So then I created
my second show after that,

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and it was starring my brother
and his friend group.

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And that was something
I took more seriously online

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where I was like,
"I'm gonna release it every week

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and build a following there."

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And I started to learn
the tools of, like, you know,

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you can't make content
that's too long online.

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You have to catch
people's attention.

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You have to be consistent.

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So I started developing
those skills

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so by the time
I did "Awkward Black Girl"

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and put myself in it,

203
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even though I was scared
as hell to put myself in it --

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-Why? Why didn't you put
yourself in the other ones?

205
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-Well, by that time,
I was just like,

206
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"I like to write and direct."
-Okay.

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-'Cause I had gone
to a school that --

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You know, like, the plays
and stuff where I had been --

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I went to a predominantly
Black and Latino high school,

210
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so, like, the plays were for us.

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I was in all of those.

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Well, by the time
I got to college,

213
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it was a predominantly
white college.

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Like, there were no roles.

215
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They weren't making stuff
for us,

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00:07:25,612 --> 00:07:27,113
so I had no interest
in the same way.

217
00:07:27,155 --> 00:07:31,117
And so it came -- like, my
directing and writing came from,

218
00:07:31,159 --> 00:07:33,078
like, "Oh, I'm gonna make it.

219
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I will create, like, a play that
features us," or whatever it is.

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And so by the time "Awkward
Black Girl" came around,

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I didn't want to feature myself

222
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because I didn't have
the same confidence anymore.

223
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I'd been working with actors,

224
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and also, you know,
I had someone else in mind.

225
00:07:48,218 --> 00:07:50,261
Like, I wrote it
with somebody else in mind.

226
00:07:50,303 --> 00:07:52,889
And then that person
couldn't do it

227
00:07:52,931 --> 00:07:54,265
'cause she was in law school.

228
00:07:54,307 --> 00:07:56,434
I was in L.A.
She was in D.C.

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And so I just felt like
I was running out of time,

230
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so I was like,
"Let me just be in it."

231
00:08:00,438 --> 00:08:01,690
-"Fuck it. I'm gonna do it."
-Yeah, exactly.

232
00:08:01,731 --> 00:08:04,651
-That's crazy that
you didn't have the want

233
00:08:04,693 --> 00:08:07,487
for the in-front-of-the-camera
success stuff.

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00:08:07,529 --> 00:08:10,573
Like, your -- your wishes were,

235
00:08:10,615 --> 00:08:13,660
"I want to be a creative,
write, direct.

236
00:08:13,702 --> 00:08:15,829
And that's my wheelhouse.
That's what I'm gonna be."

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The discovery now comes in
your talent in your own series.

238
00:08:19,708 --> 00:08:21,626
When did that snap in, like --
when did you tap into

239
00:08:21,668 --> 00:08:23,336
the understanding
that you were good?

240
00:08:23,378 --> 00:08:24,879
-I don't know that
that's ever set in.

241
00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:26,923
I know that I've had moments
where I was like,

242
00:08:26,965 --> 00:08:28,133
"Oh, I did that."

243
00:08:28,174 --> 00:08:30,010
But there's never been,
like, a --

244
00:08:30,051 --> 00:08:33,680
as far as, like, the acting
as the forefront, like,

245
00:08:33,722 --> 00:08:36,224
even I don't identify
as an actress first.

246
00:08:36,266 --> 00:08:38,727
I identify as a writer,
producer, creator,

247
00:08:38,768 --> 00:08:40,979
and then the acting --
-But you are.

248
00:08:41,021 --> 00:08:42,188
-I enjoy it.
Yeah, sure, yes.

249
00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:44,190
-It's not "sure."
You are.

250
00:08:44,232 --> 00:08:45,442
-I -- And I enjoy it.

251
00:08:45,483 --> 00:08:46,985
-I just want you to know
that you are.

252
00:08:47,027 --> 00:08:49,821
You can't just bypass that
and act as if you're not

253
00:08:49,863 --> 00:08:52,323
when you have several things
under your umbrella that --

254
00:08:52,365 --> 00:08:54,576
-I am an actress and I act,

255
00:08:54,617 --> 00:08:57,787
but that's not, like,
what drives me.

256
00:08:57,829 --> 00:08:59,664
What drives me is,
like, creating.

257
00:08:59,706 --> 00:09:01,708
And I have fun, for sure.
-Got it.

258
00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:04,544
-But, like, there's nothing
more satisfying to me

259
00:09:04,586 --> 00:09:08,214
than having an idea and then
making that shit happen.

260
00:09:08,256 --> 00:09:09,674
-Alright, on that note,

261
00:09:09,716 --> 00:09:11,634
we are going to take
a quick commercial break.

262
00:09:11,676 --> 00:09:15,013
Guys, we'll be right back with
more "Hart to Heart" after this.

263
00:09:15,055 --> 00:09:21,603
**

264
00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:30,236
**

265
00:09:30,278 --> 00:09:32,072
-Welcome back
to "Hart to Heart."

266
00:09:32,113 --> 00:09:33,782
I'm sitting here with Issa Rae.

267
00:09:33,823 --> 00:09:36,284
I think that's the dopest thing
about what you're talking about.

268
00:09:36,326 --> 00:09:41,748
It's like the not knowing how
to do it and the figuring it out

269
00:09:41,790 --> 00:09:43,958
and the completion
of figuring it out

270
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,961
and then seeing it move on
and grow to be something else.

271
00:09:47,003 --> 00:09:48,546
So even though
you're talking about

272
00:09:48,588 --> 00:09:50,465
just the first couple
of web series

273
00:09:50,507 --> 00:09:52,133
and then
the "Awkward Black Girl" came,

274
00:09:52,175 --> 00:09:54,594
alright, shit, this comes
and now progresses

275
00:09:54,636 --> 00:09:56,137
and now has a following.

276
00:09:56,179 --> 00:09:58,723
Wow. You're --
You're being sought after.

277
00:09:58,765 --> 00:10:01,184
There's another conversation
to be had now.

278
00:10:01,226 --> 00:10:03,728
It looks as if this thing
is going to propel you

279
00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:05,522
to the next stage
of entertainment.

280
00:10:05,563 --> 00:10:08,400
-Yeah.
-What was that moment?

281
00:10:08,441 --> 00:10:10,151
-When I found out
that I was gonna --

282
00:10:10,193 --> 00:10:12,153
that I was gonna go
to this next level?

283
00:10:12,195 --> 00:10:14,823
Oh, my God.
It came in --

284
00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:16,533
You know, you have --
You know.

285
00:10:16,574 --> 00:10:18,159
You have so many moments
where it's like,

286
00:10:18,201 --> 00:10:20,912
"Oh, this about to be it,"
and then it's not.

287
00:10:20,954 --> 00:10:24,207
So I had a couple of those
moments just by interactions.

288
00:10:24,249 --> 00:10:27,335
Sometime -- You know, when I had
the opportunity with Pharrell

289
00:10:27,377 --> 00:10:28,712
and he picked up
our second season,

290
00:10:28,753 --> 00:10:30,755
I was like, "Oh,
this is opening me up

291
00:10:30,797 --> 00:10:33,508
to so many other people
to watch the show,

292
00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:35,343
to watch our little web series."

293
00:10:35,385 --> 00:10:41,016
And then through that, because
he funded the second season,

294
00:10:41,057 --> 00:10:43,560
we got reviewed
in "Rolling Stone."

295
00:10:43,601 --> 00:10:46,354
And then "Rolling Stone"
was seen by Shonda Rhimes.

296
00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:48,773
And then, you know,
they saw that --

297
00:10:48,815 --> 00:10:50,608
her company, Shondaland,
saw that review,

298
00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:53,778
and then I got the opportunity
to create, like,

299
00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:55,780
one of their first
comedy pilots.

300
00:10:55,822 --> 00:10:59,576
And that was like, "Wow,
this is my television hero."

301
00:10:59,617 --> 00:11:01,244
There's no Black women --
-I was gonna say, like,

302
00:11:01,286 --> 00:11:05,040
what is the Shonda Rhimes of it
all for you at that moment?

303
00:11:05,081 --> 00:11:06,416
Like, you are --

304
00:11:06,458 --> 00:11:08,710
-She really --

305
00:11:08,752 --> 00:11:10,712
In the same way
that I didn't know that,

306
00:11:10,754 --> 00:11:12,047
oh, like, when I shoot
"Awkward Black Girl,"

307
00:11:12,088 --> 00:11:14,007
there's hella people,
there's so many jobs,

308
00:11:14,049 --> 00:11:15,759
I didn't really know
what a showrunner was.

309
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,260
I knew that people wrote
for television.

310
00:11:17,302 --> 00:11:19,679
I knew that there were
writers' rooms to an extent.

311
00:11:19,721 --> 00:11:23,058
But to see a successful
Black woman running a show,

312
00:11:23,099 --> 00:11:26,811
having a successful series
like "Grey's Anatomy," then --

313
00:11:26,853 --> 00:11:28,938
-But, like, really...
-Like, really successful...

314
00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:30,857
-...like, running the shit.
-...running the shit.

315
00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:34,361
And, like, I didn't know
even what that entailed

316
00:11:34,402 --> 00:11:35,820
until, you know, I did it.

317
00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:38,114
And then I was like,
"Oh, my God.

318
00:11:38,156 --> 00:11:39,449
She is really killing it."

319
00:11:39,491 --> 00:11:42,577
But that was just, like,
sometimes you don't know

320
00:11:42,619 --> 00:11:44,329
what you want to achieve
until you see it.

321
00:11:44,371 --> 00:11:46,748
And I felt like she was
very much that for me.

322
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:50,210
And so by the time
they called me in,

323
00:11:50,251 --> 00:11:52,837
she had "Scandal"
and "Grey's Anatomy" on the air.

324
00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:54,381
And they were both hit shows.

325
00:11:54,422 --> 00:11:56,591
And so for me seeing her,

326
00:11:56,633 --> 00:11:57,759
immediately after
our first meeting,

327
00:11:57,801 --> 00:11:59,094
I did that thing
where I was like,

328
00:11:59,135 --> 00:12:00,929
"Can I get a picture with you?"
Like...

329
00:12:00,970 --> 00:12:05,141
And it was all the things
you shouldn't do,

330
00:12:05,183 --> 00:12:06,685
but, you know,
that's how I felt about her.

331
00:12:06,726 --> 00:12:08,645
-What's your relationship
with Shonda now?

332
00:12:08,687 --> 00:12:11,147
-She's, like, just a mentor,
in a way.

333
00:12:11,189 --> 00:12:14,317
And she's just -- she shows
love, and I'm still a fan.

334
00:12:14,359 --> 00:12:16,277
And she's always
been supportive.

335
00:12:16,319 --> 00:12:18,988
-Have you been able to sit down,
pick her brain?

336
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:21,616
Like, I mean, after that stage,
later on,

337
00:12:21,658 --> 00:12:22,867
I mean,
you get to where you are now,

338
00:12:22,909 --> 00:12:24,411
have you ever tried
to double back

339
00:12:24,452 --> 00:12:26,579
and have the conversations,
of course, and say,

340
00:12:26,621 --> 00:12:28,164
"Wow, that moment was for me"?

341
00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:30,917
-In group settings.
But you know what I've realized?

342
00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:33,670
And this is --
I forget who I have access to.

343
00:12:33,712 --> 00:12:35,964
Even talking to you sometimes,
I'm like...

344
00:12:36,006 --> 00:12:37,507
-I've gotten mad at you before.

345
00:12:37,549 --> 00:12:39,801
-I know, because I don't like
to ask people for help.

346
00:12:39,843 --> 00:12:43,346
And everybody's busy.
You're doing 70 million things.

347
00:12:43,388 --> 00:12:44,639
Ava's doing 70 million things.

348
00:12:44,681 --> 00:12:46,266
Shonda's doing
70 million things.

349
00:12:46,307 --> 00:12:50,395
Recently, like, just on some --
whatever stuff, like,

350
00:12:50,437 --> 00:12:52,480
I hit up Diddy, like, 'cause
I was going through something,

351
00:12:52,522 --> 00:12:54,315
and it just popped in my head.

352
00:12:54,357 --> 00:12:55,859
I was gonna hit him
for something else,

353
00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:57,694
something, like, social related.

354
00:12:57,736 --> 00:12:59,821
And I was going through
something business-wise,

355
00:12:59,863 --> 00:13:02,449
and I was like,
"This man literally does

356
00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:05,326
so many of the things
that I do and aspire to do.

357
00:13:05,368 --> 00:13:07,954
I'm having this dilemma.
Let me just ask him."

358
00:13:07,996 --> 00:13:09,748
And then it, like --
And then the advice

359
00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:11,249
that he gave me
and the wheelhouse

360
00:13:11,291 --> 00:13:13,168
was, like, exactly
what I needed at the time.

361
00:13:13,209 --> 00:13:15,003
And I was like,
"Why don't I do this more?"

362
00:13:15,045 --> 00:13:18,298
So short answer, no,
but I will, and I want to.

363
00:13:18,340 --> 00:13:21,509
-"Long story short, Kevin,
no, I haven't."

364
00:13:21,551 --> 00:13:22,802
-No, I have not.

365
00:13:22,844 --> 00:13:24,179
-That's like
the most important thing

366
00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:27,182
that I feel people
don't tap into enough.

367
00:13:27,223 --> 00:13:28,767
-But who do you tap into?
-Everybody.

368
00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:30,185
-No.
No, I don't believe it.

369
00:13:30,226 --> 00:13:33,063
-I'm 1,000% telling you
the truth. Everybody.

370
00:13:33,104 --> 00:13:36,524
-That you literally ask someone,
"Hey, what do I do for advice?"

371
00:13:36,566 --> 00:13:38,568
-Everybody.

372
00:13:38,610 --> 00:13:40,070
-But not everybody.

373
00:13:40,111 --> 00:13:43,531
For people who you know
are very, very busy.

374
00:13:43,573 --> 00:13:45,533
-Everybody.

375
00:13:45,575 --> 00:13:47,160
-Alright, fine.
I hear you.

376
00:13:47,202 --> 00:13:48,912
-There is not one person

377
00:13:48,953 --> 00:13:51,748
that will not take your call
when you're looking for --

378
00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:53,500
-That's not true.
-No, it's not.

379
00:13:53,541 --> 00:13:55,835
You think that,
and that's what the problem is.

380
00:13:55,877 --> 00:13:58,838
Like, people are in their
own way because they're --

381
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,841
You have the assumption
that you're gonna think,

382
00:14:01,883 --> 00:14:03,593
and I don't want you to think.

383
00:14:03,635 --> 00:14:04,719
It's all based off of a thought.

384
00:14:04,761 --> 00:14:06,554
Like, you're creating a reaction

385
00:14:06,596 --> 00:14:08,098
that hasn't even been had.

386
00:14:08,139 --> 00:14:11,226
So 9 times out of 10,
if you really do reach out,

387
00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:14,062
you'll be surprised
how many people will go, "Hey!

388
00:14:14,104 --> 00:14:15,730
Oh, my God. Yo, it's crazy
that you called me.

389
00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:17,565
I'm a big fan,
and I just want to say

390
00:14:17,607 --> 00:14:18,775
I love the work
that you're doing.

391
00:14:18,817 --> 00:14:20,068
What's up?
What's going on?"

392
00:14:20,110 --> 00:14:23,113
Like, there's a synergy
that's lost

393
00:14:23,154 --> 00:14:25,699
because so many people
stopped networking.

394
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:27,242
So many people stopped --

395
00:14:27,283 --> 00:14:28,952
-Because you don't know
if people are genuine, either.

396
00:14:28,993 --> 00:14:31,079
I mean, you've extended that,
like, credit to you.

397
00:14:31,121 --> 00:14:32,747
Like, even in talking to you,
you've just been like,

398
00:14:32,789 --> 00:14:35,750
"Hit me, hit me," and I'm like,
"This nigga busy. He lying."

399
00:14:35,792 --> 00:14:37,419
-You told me one time,
"No, Kev."

400
00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:38,753
You told me one time, you said,

401
00:14:38,795 --> 00:14:40,088
"I hit you,
and you ain't hit me back."

402
00:14:40,130 --> 00:14:41,589
I was like, "Alright,
that's one time."

403
00:14:41,631 --> 00:14:42,966
I was like, "Damn!"

404
00:14:43,008 --> 00:14:44,634
I was like, "So it's over?
What do you mean?"

405
00:14:44,676 --> 00:14:45,969
I said, "It was one time.

406
00:14:46,011 --> 00:14:47,637
I was shooting.
I was out the country."

407
00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:50,223
You were like "Alright, nah,
Kev, you be saying that shit,

408
00:14:50,265 --> 00:14:51,266
but I hit you one time."

409
00:14:51,307 --> 00:14:52,767
I was like,
"It was one time, Issa."

410
00:14:52,809 --> 00:14:54,436
-That sounds like me.

411
00:14:54,477 --> 00:14:56,896
I was saying, I respect these
people so much, and that's why.

412
00:14:56,938 --> 00:14:59,941
-But there's also in return
a high level of respect.

413
00:14:59,983 --> 00:15:02,861
I mean, I'm sitting here
talking to you now.

414
00:15:02,902 --> 00:15:04,446
I'm more of a fan.

415
00:15:04,487 --> 00:15:09,034
I'm more of a guy that's like,
"Yo, I want to talk to her

416
00:15:09,075 --> 00:15:11,202
because I want to fucking know
what's going on.

417
00:15:11,244 --> 00:15:14,622
I want to hear her talk
about her journey," et cetera.

418
00:15:14,664 --> 00:15:16,166
But it's more of a fan.

419
00:15:16,207 --> 00:15:19,169
You'd be surprised,
like, how much --

420
00:15:19,210 --> 00:15:21,963
how much people forget
that that exists.

421
00:15:22,005 --> 00:15:24,758
Right now, you're talking
about "Awkward Black Girl."

422
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:27,177
I love the story.
I like that it started here.

423
00:15:27,218 --> 00:15:28,970
And that's how you got
to "Insecure."

424
00:15:29,012 --> 00:15:30,305
But I don't know
what happened in between.

425
00:15:30,347 --> 00:15:32,474
So I'm here as a fan,
how the fuck --

426
00:15:32,515 --> 00:15:36,144
How did you jump from "Awkward
Black Girl" to "Insecure"?

427
00:15:36,186 --> 00:15:37,145
I want to know.

428
00:15:37,187 --> 00:15:38,688
This is me looking
for information.

429
00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:40,440
-It was a hobble.
It wasn't a jump.

430
00:15:40,482 --> 00:15:41,816
You know, it was like --

431
00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:44,027
You know, even the Shonda stuff,

432
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:45,737
that was like
a big embarrassment

433
00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:46,988
when that didn't go through.

434
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:48,615
-Why was that an embarrassment?

435
00:15:48,656 --> 00:15:50,700
-Because...

436
00:15:50,742 --> 00:15:52,994
You know what it is.
You --

437
00:15:53,036 --> 00:15:54,829
First of all,
the announcement is everything.

438
00:15:54,871 --> 00:15:56,414
When people are like, "Oh!

439
00:15:56,456 --> 00:15:58,583
'Awkward Black Girl'
working with Shonda Rhimes!

440
00:15:58,625 --> 00:15:59,959
Oh, shit!"

441
00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:02,170
And that's on "Deadline."
You're posting it.

442
00:16:02,212 --> 00:16:04,214
And then -- then you
have to do the work.

443
00:16:04,255 --> 00:16:05,882
Then it has to be good.
-Mm-hmm.

444
00:16:05,924 --> 00:16:09,427
-And for that, I just --
I was so scared.

445
00:16:09,469 --> 00:16:12,681
And there was so much pressure,
and I wanted to get it right.

446
00:16:12,722 --> 00:16:14,224
And I loved them so much,
and it just --

447
00:16:14,265 --> 00:16:16,309
You know, the show that I
ended up making wasn't right.

448
00:16:16,351 --> 00:16:19,104
And so then -- Thank God
there's no announcement

449
00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:20,980
that's like, "Ah,
this bitch didn't do it."

450
00:16:21,022 --> 00:16:23,149
You know, but you
still know that.

451
00:16:23,191 --> 00:16:26,861
And so...then even
with the opportunity with HBO,

452
00:16:26,903 --> 00:16:28,488
like, that was like another,
"Oh, my God,

453
00:16:28,530 --> 00:16:30,365
I get another shot?"

454
00:16:30,407 --> 00:16:32,200
And then stuff comes out
about that like,

455
00:16:32,242 --> 00:16:33,910
"Oh, she's about to do
a show with HBO."

456
00:16:33,952 --> 00:16:36,746
And that was my, like,
dream network.

457
00:16:36,788 --> 00:16:39,708
And that took a long time to do.

458
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:43,503
And it was just like draft
after draft, and it just --

459
00:16:43,545 --> 00:16:46,214
it wasn't right for them,
and so I was --

460
00:16:46,256 --> 00:16:47,966
-What I'm hearing
is something different, right?

461
00:16:48,008 --> 00:16:50,176
-What are you hearing?
-I'm hearing, like,

462
00:16:50,218 --> 00:16:53,555
it didn't work because
you needed the experience

463
00:16:53,596 --> 00:16:54,848
of understanding what not to do.

464
00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:56,266
-But you don't know that
at the time.

465
00:16:56,307 --> 00:16:59,352
-But that's the beauty
of that moment.

466
00:16:59,394 --> 00:17:01,813
That's the beauty of that stage
in the business.

467
00:17:01,855 --> 00:17:03,314
Like, we don't get
a cheat sheet.

468
00:17:03,356 --> 00:17:05,442
We don't get a handbook.
We're thrown in it.

469
00:17:05,483 --> 00:17:08,903
So, what I'm hearing is like,
"Okay, at that moment, damn,

470
00:17:08,945 --> 00:17:12,032
I now have to --
I got to fucking make it happen.

471
00:17:12,073 --> 00:17:13,324
I've got to create the show

472
00:17:13,366 --> 00:17:14,951
that they're looking
for me to create."

473
00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:17,287
But in doing that,
the road to --

474
00:17:17,328 --> 00:17:19,622
the road to victory there
isn't an easy one,

475
00:17:19,664 --> 00:17:21,124
and there's a lot of opinions.

476
00:17:21,166 --> 00:17:22,625
Everybody's got a note
and this and that.

477
00:17:22,667 --> 00:17:24,919
"I got to get my draft,
and it was right, wasn't.

478
00:17:24,961 --> 00:17:26,546
And I ended up
turning in something,

479
00:17:26,588 --> 00:17:29,424
but we didn't make the show,
and I look at it as I failed."

480
00:17:29,466 --> 00:17:31,176
I look at it as like,
"Damn. Fuck."

481
00:17:31,217 --> 00:17:34,095
But that's not the fail
because then you figure out,

482
00:17:34,137 --> 00:17:35,597
"Well, I'mma do something else."

483
00:17:35,638 --> 00:17:38,933
-Yeah, but, you know,
that still fucks me up now.

484
00:17:38,975 --> 00:17:40,435
But what fucked me up back then

485
00:17:40,477 --> 00:17:44,356
was feeling like I had to do it
in a certain time.

486
00:17:44,397 --> 00:17:45,899
I don't know why --

487
00:17:45,940 --> 00:17:47,192
-What do you mean when you say
"a certain time"?

488
00:17:47,233 --> 00:17:48,943
You're saying like
a certain timeline?

489
00:17:48,985 --> 00:17:50,320
-Yeah, a certain timeframe.

490
00:17:50,362 --> 00:17:53,156
Like, for me,
I've always been inhibited

491
00:17:53,198 --> 00:17:55,283
or propelled by the fact
that I feel like

492
00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:58,161
I don't have many times
or many chances.

493
00:17:58,203 --> 00:18:00,038
Like, I don't have enough time
and enough chances.

494
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,623
-I can relate to that.
-So it feels like -- yeah --

495
00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:03,166
I didn't get this done.

496
00:18:03,208 --> 00:18:05,543
When you're inundated
by images of,

497
00:18:05,585 --> 00:18:06,961
"So-and-so did this by 19.

498
00:18:07,003 --> 00:18:08,797
They got an Oscar by 23."

499
00:18:08,838 --> 00:18:10,215
And you're like, "Damn, I'm 27,

500
00:18:10,256 --> 00:18:11,966
and I have not done
any of those things."

501
00:18:12,008 --> 00:18:13,093
And that's intimidating.

502
00:18:13,134 --> 00:18:14,177
-It's the window, right?
-Yes.

503
00:18:14,219 --> 00:18:15,804
-When does my window close?

504
00:18:15,845 --> 00:18:17,764
-Yes, that is
my frequent question.

505
00:18:17,806 --> 00:18:22,811
-When does my window close,
and is my window open,

506
00:18:22,852 --> 00:18:24,854
and are the same opportunities

507
00:18:24,896 --> 00:18:27,065
the ones that I'm
watching others get?

508
00:18:27,107 --> 00:18:30,402
And if so, you know,
I don't feel like mine are here,

509
00:18:30,443 --> 00:18:32,946
and that means
that it could be over soon.

510
00:18:32,987 --> 00:18:37,325
But, like, it's a learned trait
to understand, like, that --

511
00:18:37,367 --> 00:18:39,327
that isn't necessarily true.

512
00:18:39,369 --> 00:18:41,329
-Mm.
-It's what we think is true.

513
00:18:41,371 --> 00:18:43,248
-Yeah, you don't believe --
You still operate that way.

514
00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:44,708
I feel like I still
operate that way.

515
00:18:44,749 --> 00:18:46,126
-But you don't have to.

516
00:18:46,167 --> 00:18:47,377
Like, it's a thing that
we got to get out --

517
00:18:47,419 --> 00:18:49,170
Okay, I'm gonna
be honest with you.

518
00:18:49,212 --> 00:18:51,840
We're talking and we're being
transparent and authentic.

519
00:18:51,881 --> 00:18:53,425
-Mm-hmm.

520
00:18:53,466 --> 00:18:56,720
-It took probably over the
course of the last two years

521
00:18:56,761 --> 00:18:59,305
I got out of the stage of,

522
00:18:59,347 --> 00:19:04,019
"Man, this shit
could all go away today."

523
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:05,395
-Okay.
-Right?

524
00:19:05,437 --> 00:19:07,856
And the reason
why I was rushing so much to,

525
00:19:07,897 --> 00:19:10,358
like, build these companies,
build all this other stuff,

526
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,694
because, like,
"If y'all try to take this shit,

527
00:19:12,736 --> 00:19:13,695
it's gonna go away.

528
00:19:13,737 --> 00:19:14,863
Man, you motherfuckers.

529
00:19:14,904 --> 00:19:17,240
I'm gonna have this other shit."

530
00:19:17,282 --> 00:19:19,242
But my want for the other shit
was out of panic.

531
00:19:19,284 --> 00:19:20,744
Because y'all gonna come --
What?

532
00:19:20,785 --> 00:19:22,662
I ain't gonna go -- Hey!

533
00:19:22,704 --> 00:19:25,957
They're trying to say that if
this movie don't goddamn hit,

534
00:19:25,999 --> 00:19:30,045
these motherfu-- Hey, you ain't
gonna goddamn do it to me!

535
00:19:30,086 --> 00:19:32,047
It was a --
It was a panic, right?

536
00:19:32,088 --> 00:19:33,298
It was a pure panic.

537
00:19:33,340 --> 00:19:35,592
It was like the last two
to three years,

538
00:19:35,633 --> 00:19:39,262
I got to a place
where I'm like, "Yo, man.

539
00:19:39,304 --> 00:19:41,556
You're doing what you love."

540
00:19:41,598 --> 00:19:45,060
The panic has to --
It has to settle down,

541
00:19:45,101 --> 00:19:49,397
because if I'm panicking
while doing what I love,

542
00:19:49,439 --> 00:19:51,399
well, am I giving
the best version

543
00:19:51,441 --> 00:19:53,193
of the thing that I love, like,

544
00:19:53,234 --> 00:19:55,070
if it's done
with a shared, like,

545
00:19:55,111 --> 00:19:56,654
reason and attachment to panic?

546
00:19:56,696 --> 00:20:01,368
So to your point that you're
making, you don't have a window,

547
00:20:01,409 --> 00:20:02,994
because you're creating
your window.

548
00:20:03,036 --> 00:20:06,081
Like, you're the anomaly.

549
00:20:06,122 --> 00:20:08,208
You're on this side, Issa.

550
00:20:08,249 --> 00:20:10,377
You're writing, developing,
creating,

551
00:20:10,418 --> 00:20:12,170
and going,
"This is what I want to do."

552
00:20:12,212 --> 00:20:14,923
Whereas the other side
is waiting

553
00:20:14,964 --> 00:20:19,135
to be told what opportunities
they have so they can do.

554
00:20:19,177 --> 00:20:22,389
-But I'm still --
-You're the engine.

555
00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:24,766
-Okay, I'm the engine,
but I still need a car,

556
00:20:24,808 --> 00:20:26,184
if I'm going with that.

557
00:20:26,226 --> 00:20:27,644
I don't even know if that's
the right analogy.

558
00:20:27,686 --> 00:20:30,063
Because people still have to,
like, buy my shit.

559
00:20:30,105 --> 00:20:32,524
I still don't -- and that's kind
of what I'm building towards.

560
00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:33,942
I realize that.
I'm like, "Okay.

561
00:20:33,983 --> 00:20:35,902
Yeah, I make stuff
all the time."

562
00:20:35,944 --> 00:20:38,613
And sometimes I wish I could
revert back to those online days

563
00:20:38,655 --> 00:20:40,532
where it was like, "I'm just
putting that shit out there.

564
00:20:40,573 --> 00:20:41,991
I'm putting this out

565
00:20:42,033 --> 00:20:43,952
for the audience that I want
and that I want to claim."

566
00:20:43,993 --> 00:20:48,289
And now, you know, I'm obviously
within a system, in a way,

567
00:20:48,331 --> 00:20:50,000
an entertainment system.

568
00:20:50,041 --> 00:20:53,044
And I realize, to your point,
like, part of me is just, like,

569
00:20:53,086 --> 00:20:54,754
with seeing
all these changes, like,

570
00:20:54,796 --> 00:20:57,382
"Okay, I can make all I want,
but what if they're not buying?

571
00:20:57,424 --> 00:20:59,592
What if they're not buying
what I'm selling?"

572
00:20:59,634 --> 00:21:01,803
So then what?
What am I left with?

573
00:21:01,845 --> 00:21:06,683
-I think that this is a great
moment to take a beat, right?

574
00:21:06,725 --> 00:21:08,309
I mean, look the conversations
on "Hart to Heart,"

575
00:21:08,351 --> 00:21:10,895
they not only get deep,
but they get real.

576
00:21:10,937 --> 00:21:12,564
-Mm.
-That's why we do this show.

577
00:21:12,605 --> 00:21:14,899
Not only will we continue
when we get back,

578
00:21:14,941 --> 00:21:16,818
we're gonna get some more wine,
'cause I want some,

579
00:21:16,860 --> 00:21:17,944
'cause I got more
deep shit to say.

580
00:21:17,986 --> 00:21:19,529
Don't go nowhere.

581
00:21:19,571 --> 00:21:21,114
We got more "Hart to Heart"
when we get back after this.

582
00:21:21,156 --> 00:21:22,699
How do I do it?

583
00:21:22,741 --> 00:21:25,785
-[ Laughs ]

584
00:21:25,827 --> 00:21:32,584
**

585
00:21:36,546 --> 00:21:41,217
**

586
00:21:41,259 --> 00:21:42,594
-Welcome back
to "Hart to Heart."

587
00:21:42,635 --> 00:21:46,556
We are still here
with the amazing Issa Rae.

588
00:21:46,598 --> 00:21:48,183
You know, we're talking about

589
00:21:48,224 --> 00:21:49,601
where's your big happy
come from.

590
00:21:49,642 --> 00:21:53,104
Does it come after
you have created,

591
00:21:53,146 --> 00:21:57,942
written what you deem to be
an amazing story, front to back?

592
00:21:57,984 --> 00:21:59,819
Is that your happy,
or does your happy come

593
00:21:59,861 --> 00:22:03,031
from people watching
the amazing story and going,

594
00:22:03,073 --> 00:22:04,407
"That was an amazing story"?

595
00:22:04,449 --> 00:22:05,658
Which one makes you happier?

596
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,494
-It's periods of happy.
It's both.

597
00:22:07,535 --> 00:22:12,415
Both is the high of just,
"Wow, we finished that.

598
00:22:12,457 --> 00:22:14,292
Like, it was hard to make,

599
00:22:14,334 --> 00:22:16,336
and, like,
I don't care what people say.

600
00:22:16,378 --> 00:22:18,338
We did it how
we wanted to do it."

601
00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:20,548
That's amazing in and of itself.
-Okay.

602
00:22:20,590 --> 00:22:23,009
-And then the second high is,
like, "People saw what we saw.

603
00:22:23,051 --> 00:22:24,594
They thought it was as good
as we thought it."

604
00:22:24,636 --> 00:22:26,471
-That's the bonus to me.
-It is a bonus, for sure.

605
00:22:26,513 --> 00:22:28,890
-That's the bonus. Like,
I think the big happy comes --

606
00:22:28,932 --> 00:22:32,686
I'm happy with putting my mind
to something and finishing it.

607
00:22:32,727 --> 00:22:35,480
-That's for sure.
-That's the happy for me, right?

608
00:22:35,522 --> 00:22:38,024
-It is, but I feel like
I have that balance

609
00:22:38,066 --> 00:22:39,526
because I'm very clear.

610
00:22:39,567 --> 00:22:42,821
Like, I create for an audience
since I have been young.

611
00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:45,073
Like, do my parents like it?
Do my siblings like it?

612
00:22:45,115 --> 00:22:47,617
Does it make them laugh?
Does it make my friends laugh?

613
00:22:47,659 --> 00:22:50,161
Do they -- Like, I create
with people in mind.

614
00:22:50,203 --> 00:22:52,997
So, if they like it,
I'm over the moon.

615
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:56,334
If they don't, then I'm like,
"Okay, I got to come harder."

616
00:22:56,376 --> 00:22:57,669
Like, it's devastating
initially.

617
00:22:57,711 --> 00:22:59,713
Like, "Oh, my God.
Y'all didn't like that?

618
00:22:59,754 --> 00:23:01,506
And I put so much energy
and time into it,

619
00:23:01,548 --> 00:23:02,841
and I actually thought
it was good.

620
00:23:02,882 --> 00:23:03,883
Is there something wrong?

621
00:23:03,925 --> 00:23:05,343
Okay, you know what?"

622
00:23:05,385 --> 00:23:07,429
And then it's just, like,
living in that devastation

623
00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:09,514
and allowing myself
to live in that for a minute

624
00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:10,974
and then the resolution that,

625
00:23:11,016 --> 00:23:13,518
"Oh, I'm about to come
so much harder next time."

626
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,395
But it's still for me,
at the end of the day,

627
00:23:15,437 --> 00:23:17,522
but I know that I'm still
creating for an audience.

628
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:20,025
-Have you had that?
-Oh, what are you talking about?

629
00:23:20,066 --> 00:23:21,526
Yes, how I live.

630
00:23:21,568 --> 00:23:24,571
-What gave you that?
What gave you the "Oh, fuck"?

631
00:23:24,612 --> 00:23:27,032
-Um...
-What gave you that?

632
00:23:27,073 --> 00:23:28,783
"You've got to be kidding me.

633
00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:31,202
Did you read this shit?
Did you see what they saying?"

634
00:23:31,244 --> 00:23:32,662
What gave you that?
-Man.

635
00:23:32,704 --> 00:23:35,165
I mean, there was for sure
some episodes --

636
00:23:35,206 --> 00:23:36,291
I mean, it went back --

637
00:23:36,332 --> 00:23:38,209
I remember the first time
I cried.

638
00:23:38,251 --> 00:23:40,712
[ Laughs ]
I cried over some shit.

639
00:23:40,754 --> 00:23:42,297
But that was like
"Awkward Black Girl" days,

640
00:23:42,339 --> 00:23:44,424
and I was like, "Oh, I know --"

641
00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:48,386
We did this one episode that was
like a Halloween special,

642
00:23:48,428 --> 00:23:49,721
making fun of Greeks.

643
00:23:49,763 --> 00:23:51,723
-Gamma, gamma ray, gamma ray.

644
00:23:51,765 --> 00:23:55,518
Gamma, gamma ray, gamma ray.
Gamma, gamma ray, gamma ray.

645
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,729
Gamma, gamma ray, gamma ray.
Gamma...

646
00:23:57,771 --> 00:23:59,898
-And it was funny as fuck to me

647
00:23:59,939 --> 00:24:03,568
because it was, like, very,
you know, inside baseball.

648
00:24:03,610 --> 00:24:06,404
And I remember people
were not fucking with it online.

649
00:24:06,446 --> 00:24:07,655
And they were like,
"What the fuck?

650
00:24:07,697 --> 00:24:09,824
This shit fell off.
Unh-unh.

651
00:24:09,866 --> 00:24:11,951
'Awkward Black Girl'?
'Awkward Whack Girl.'"

652
00:24:11,993 --> 00:24:16,915
Like, probably nobody said that,
but it was, like, in my head.

653
00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:18,500
And so -- [ Laughs ]

654
00:24:18,541 --> 00:24:20,377
"It was you.
You wrote it. Okay.

655
00:24:20,418 --> 00:24:23,004
Now I know who wrote it."

656
00:24:23,046 --> 00:24:24,756
But, like, that was --
I remember --

657
00:24:24,798 --> 00:24:26,424
'Cause I used to
read everything.

658
00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:28,677
Like, when you
have access to it,

659
00:24:28,718 --> 00:24:30,428
you're just like,
"Oh, I'm reading everything."

660
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:31,930
Like, they fuck with it.

661
00:24:31,971 --> 00:24:33,556
So, like, that was
the first time

662
00:24:33,598 --> 00:24:35,558
where I was, like,
closing the computer.

663
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,185
-Close it. Fuck this shit!
-Yeah.

664
00:24:37,227 --> 00:24:38,687
What the fuck?
Oh, yeah.

665
00:24:38,728 --> 00:24:40,980
Y'all was just fucking
with the last episode.

666
00:24:41,022 --> 00:24:43,066
-Last week, you liked it.

667
00:24:43,108 --> 00:24:45,068
-They don't know where
we're going, that's why.

668
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:48,321
-@Kathy212, let me see.
Where's she at?

669
00:24:48,363 --> 00:24:49,781
Let me see her page.

670
00:24:49,823 --> 00:24:51,825
You start searching them down.

671
00:24:51,866 --> 00:24:54,953
-So, I remember that, and
that shit hurt me to my core.

672
00:24:54,994 --> 00:24:56,955
And I was like,
"I'm crying over comments.

673
00:24:56,996 --> 00:24:59,082
Like, girl, get it together."
-Get it together.

674
00:24:59,124 --> 00:25:01,459
-So by the time "Insecure"
came around,

675
00:25:01,501 --> 00:25:03,670
it was on a higher scale,
but I was --

676
00:25:03,712 --> 00:25:05,296
like, I wasn't as devastated.

677
00:25:05,338 --> 00:25:08,633
But I remember there was one
episode in the second season

678
00:25:08,675 --> 00:25:11,052
where people, like,
just turned on us.

679
00:25:11,094 --> 00:25:16,975
And, like, that hurt in a way
and that made me realize, like,

680
00:25:17,017 --> 00:25:18,893
"Oh, people really care
about this."

681
00:25:18,935 --> 00:25:20,979
And now, we're --
It's not only that, but now --

682
00:25:21,021 --> 00:25:24,149
now we're under a different
scrutiny, and it --

683
00:25:24,190 --> 00:25:27,318
I just became hyper aware in
a new way of just, like, "Oh."

684
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,070
-Well, they became invested.

685
00:25:29,112 --> 00:25:31,740
-They became invested, and then
there was a tide of just, like,

686
00:25:31,781 --> 00:25:35,952
"Oh, now people are kind of
rooting for us to fail."

687
00:25:35,994 --> 00:25:37,829
You see people coming out
the woodwork where they're like,

688
00:25:37,871 --> 00:25:39,497
"I told y'all
that show wasn't shit."

689
00:25:39,539 --> 00:25:41,624
And I was like, oh, my God,
people were just --

690
00:25:41,666 --> 00:25:43,585
people were waiting to hate.
-Yeah.

691
00:25:43,626 --> 00:25:45,545
-And that was, like,
a new realization for me.

692
00:25:45,587 --> 00:25:47,422
-I mean, I think now --

693
00:25:47,464 --> 00:25:48,757
I would assume
that you're in a place now

694
00:25:48,798 --> 00:25:52,177
where you realize, like,
that doesn't matter.

695
00:25:52,218 --> 00:25:53,553
It doesn't matter.

696
00:25:53,595 --> 00:25:55,013
Like, you went through
your wave of, like,

697
00:25:55,055 --> 00:25:57,182
"Oh, my God, this matters.
This means something."

698
00:25:57,223 --> 00:26:00,977
But now I think you clearly see
that that doesn't mean anything.

699
00:26:01,019 --> 00:26:02,687
-Over it.
I know the cycles now.

700
00:26:02,729 --> 00:26:04,689
Like, and I'm
very familiar with it.

701
00:26:04,731 --> 00:26:06,483
I'm part of the cycles
in some ways.

702
00:26:06,524 --> 00:26:08,568
-You were able to develop
a relationship

703
00:26:08,610 --> 00:26:10,195
with your casts, right?

704
00:26:10,236 --> 00:26:12,530
I mean, you know, a lot of
people talk about the families

705
00:26:12,572 --> 00:26:16,534
that are developed on-screen
and how those relationships

706
00:26:16,576 --> 00:26:18,244
end up being some
of the best friendships

707
00:26:18,286 --> 00:26:19,871
to go on and on and on.

708
00:26:19,913 --> 00:26:23,875
Um, you, the cast, the show,
was it a bittersweet ending?

709
00:26:23,917 --> 00:26:26,503
Do you guys still talk?
Is there a group chat?

710
00:26:26,544 --> 00:26:29,047
Like, what does the cast
of "Insecure" now do

711
00:26:29,089 --> 00:26:30,298
that the show is over?

712
00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:31,883
-All of those things.
There's a group chat.

713
00:26:31,925 --> 00:26:34,219
It's single chat.
We just support each other.

714
00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:35,887
It's love.

715
00:26:35,929 --> 00:26:38,515
Everybody's doing
their own projects

716
00:26:38,556 --> 00:26:40,266
and, you know,

717
00:26:40,308 --> 00:26:42,560
actively on their paths
for their next moves.

718
00:26:42,602 --> 00:26:44,062
But I want to work
with them again.

719
00:26:44,104 --> 00:26:45,897
You know, I think it's
that thing where it's just like,

720
00:26:45,939 --> 00:26:47,190
"Okay, y'all do y'all thing,
but know, like,

721
00:26:47,232 --> 00:26:48,900
I'm still gonna
call y'all for stuff."

722
00:26:48,942 --> 00:26:51,945
But it's just --
it's so much love and support.

723
00:26:51,986 --> 00:26:55,490
And I'm really just
proud of all that.

724
00:26:55,532 --> 00:26:57,992
-So, just in good faith,

725
00:26:58,034 --> 00:26:59,619
giving flowers
where flowers are due,

726
00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:01,830
that's your
Shonda Rhimes moment, right?

727
00:27:01,871 --> 00:27:05,417
Like, you were operating,
managing, and running,

728
00:27:05,458 --> 00:27:07,168
you know, a project.

729
00:27:07,210 --> 00:27:09,504
That's your project.
That's your creative.

730
00:27:09,546 --> 00:27:11,423
Your creative got
to five goddamn seasons,

731
00:27:11,464 --> 00:27:12,757
which is unheard of.

732
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:14,759
It's a big fucking deal
in the business.

733
00:27:14,801 --> 00:27:16,177
It's a massive deal

734
00:27:16,219 --> 00:27:17,971
to get to five seasons
of a television show.

735
00:27:18,013 --> 00:27:20,849
And it's not just a show
that was, like, good.

736
00:27:20,890 --> 00:27:22,475
It's a show that is evergreen.

737
00:27:22,517 --> 00:27:24,769
People are still gonna watch
that show, discover that show.

738
00:27:24,811 --> 00:27:26,438
The show will last.
Right?

739
00:27:26,479 --> 00:27:27,814
So whatever you decide to do

740
00:27:27,856 --> 00:27:30,025
moving forward from that show,
you can.

741
00:27:30,066 --> 00:27:31,276
But the show's done.

742
00:27:31,317 --> 00:27:33,737
Show gets done
'cause you made the decision,

743
00:27:33,778 --> 00:27:35,864
but then you say, "Well,
let me put on my creative hat."

744
00:27:35,905 --> 00:27:39,451
And now Issa's developed
and created more shows.

745
00:27:39,492 --> 00:27:41,286
By the way,
you're not in the shows.

746
00:27:41,327 --> 00:27:43,580
These are from the mind of.

747
00:27:43,621 --> 00:27:45,915
-Mm-hmm.
-That's a bigger fucking deal.

748
00:27:45,957 --> 00:27:48,460
I look at that, as I watch
every move you make,

749
00:27:48,501 --> 00:27:50,420
and I'm like, "She's working.

750
00:27:50,462 --> 00:27:52,380
She's, like, really working."

751
00:27:52,422 --> 00:27:55,884
Now, well, now you're in this --
you're in a conversation

752
00:27:55,925 --> 00:27:57,886
of launching
the next wave of talent.

753
00:27:57,927 --> 00:28:00,513
-Man.
-That's where you are now.

754
00:28:00,555 --> 00:28:02,140
Do you understand that?

755
00:28:02,182 --> 00:28:04,934
-It makes me the happiest.
It makes me the most excited.

756
00:28:04,976 --> 00:28:09,397
Now, like, you know,
even with new show "Rap Sh!t,"

757
00:28:09,439 --> 00:28:11,316
I'm, like, following
their journeys and, like --

758
00:28:11,358 --> 00:28:15,028
-Is it really based off of,
like, City Girls --

759
00:28:15,070 --> 00:28:19,449
-It's, like, inspired
by, like, my fandom of them.

760
00:28:19,491 --> 00:28:20,992
-Okay.
-But, like, generally,

761
00:28:21,034 --> 00:28:22,660
just this time in female rap.

762
00:28:22,702 --> 00:28:25,246
Like it's all those things.

763
00:28:25,288 --> 00:28:26,998
-It's so good. It's so good.
-Thank you.

764
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,334
-It's one of those things
that you get mad at

765
00:28:29,376 --> 00:28:32,837
'cause it's simple to the idea.

766
00:28:32,879 --> 00:28:34,506
-Yeah.
-It's like, this --

767
00:28:34,547 --> 00:28:36,424
this thing has been around,
right?

768
00:28:36,466 --> 00:28:38,093
This level of talent,

769
00:28:38,134 --> 00:28:40,845
these women that have been
in this space

770
00:28:40,887 --> 00:28:42,806
and their journey and how,

771
00:28:42,847 --> 00:28:46,309
to tell it through that lens,
it's very smart.

772
00:28:46,351 --> 00:28:47,644
-I appreciate it.

773
00:28:47,686 --> 00:28:49,270
-Okay, guys, we're gonna
take a quick break.

774
00:28:49,312 --> 00:28:51,272
We'll be right back with more
"Hart to Heart" after this.

775
00:28:51,314 --> 00:28:57,946
**

776
00:29:01,241 --> 00:29:05,912
**

777
00:29:05,954 --> 00:29:07,747
-Welcome back
to "Hart to Heart."

778
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:09,749
I'm sitting here with Issa Rae.

779
00:29:09,791 --> 00:29:14,963
Television producing,
writing, directing.

780
00:29:15,005 --> 00:29:16,923
You dabbled
in the world of movies.

781
00:29:16,965 --> 00:29:18,174
-Mm-hmm.
-Is that done?

782
00:29:18,216 --> 00:29:19,718
Is that all over?
-No, definitely not.

783
00:29:19,759 --> 00:29:22,137
-What's your love for movies?

784
00:29:22,178 --> 00:29:23,513
-[ Sighs ]

785
00:29:23,555 --> 00:29:26,391
Right now, not high.

786
00:29:26,433 --> 00:29:28,810
-Why?
Tell me why.

787
00:29:28,852 --> 00:29:30,770
-I used to go to the movies
every week.

788
00:29:30,812 --> 00:29:33,356
Like, and then every other week.

789
00:29:33,398 --> 00:29:36,067
But now movies --

790
00:29:36,109 --> 00:29:37,777
You know,
I love the small movies.

791
00:29:37,819 --> 00:29:42,115
I love that, and I love the
communal experience of movies.

792
00:29:42,157 --> 00:29:43,992
And I feel like
we're losing that.

793
00:29:44,034 --> 00:29:45,577
-Okay.
You're talking about --

794
00:29:45,618 --> 00:29:47,829
You're talking about,
pretty much, in today's time...

795
00:29:47,871 --> 00:29:49,456
-In today's time,
yeah, yeah, yeah.

796
00:29:49,497 --> 00:29:52,500
-...the theater or theatrical
experience is now lessening.

797
00:29:52,542 --> 00:29:55,211
You feel like that's gone.
You feel like we've lost that.

798
00:29:55,253 --> 00:29:57,756
-In a way, just because
of what the focus

799
00:29:57,797 --> 00:30:01,009
of theatrical movies are.

800
00:30:01,051 --> 00:30:02,510
Like, they're just very similar,

801
00:30:02,552 --> 00:30:05,013
and it feels like it caters
to a very specific type

802
00:30:05,055 --> 00:30:06,848
or it's, like, overly broad.

803
00:30:06,890 --> 00:30:13,104
And so I miss, like, the movies
that, you know, I grew up on.

804
00:30:13,146 --> 00:30:14,981
So my love for movies is,
you know,

805
00:30:15,023 --> 00:30:16,733
I still want to continue to --
I want to create.

806
00:30:16,775 --> 00:30:18,276
I haven't made a movie yet.

807
00:30:18,318 --> 00:30:21,154
I haven't written one,
and so that's a goal of mine.

808
00:30:21,196 --> 00:30:23,239
But I can't even say that,
like, you know,

809
00:30:23,281 --> 00:30:25,116
I'll be able to create
a pop-cultural staple.

810
00:30:25,158 --> 00:30:26,993
I want to.
-Why can't you say that?

811
00:30:27,035 --> 00:30:28,661
Why do you do that?
Why'd you just have to do that?

812
00:30:28,703 --> 00:30:30,830
-Because I just want to make --
-You didn't have to do that.

813
00:30:30,872 --> 00:30:32,374
-Why'd you just have to do that?

814
00:30:32,415 --> 00:30:34,376
I can't even say it 'cause
I can't say that that word.

815
00:30:34,417 --> 00:30:36,836
-I just spent time talking
about how that's not --

816
00:30:36,878 --> 00:30:38,046
that's not a thing right now.

817
00:30:38,088 --> 00:30:39,547
-What do you mean?
It's not a thing.

818
00:30:39,589 --> 00:30:41,257
Okay, so then you say,
"I want to make it a thing."

819
00:30:41,299 --> 00:30:43,093
And you make it a thing.
-That's what I'm saying.

820
00:30:43,134 --> 00:30:44,719
I want to make it a thing.
-Well, no, you didn't say that.

821
00:30:44,761 --> 00:30:46,388
You said, "I want to say it,
but then I can't say that --"

822
00:30:46,429 --> 00:30:48,223
You went high, and then
you went low immediately.

823
00:30:48,264 --> 00:30:49,557
"Listen, I would love to do it,

824
00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:50,850
but at the same time
I think that I can't.

825
00:30:50,892 --> 00:30:52,560
-Oh, my gosh!
It's hard.

826
00:30:52,602 --> 00:30:53,895
-If that's what you want to do.

827
00:30:53,937 --> 00:30:55,021
-You know what?
I'm a realist.

828
00:30:55,063 --> 00:30:56,523
That's it.
-What do you mean?

829
00:30:56,564 --> 00:30:58,566
-I have to acknowledge
what is possible and what's not.

830
00:30:58,608 --> 00:31:00,318
That doesn't mean in the back
of my head I'm not like,

831
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,195
"I'm gonna kill this.
I'm gonna make it."

832
00:31:02,237 --> 00:31:04,948
But I'm saying, like, I have to
acknowledge all the parts of it.

833
00:31:04,989 --> 00:31:06,825
-I'm really seeing --
I'm getting it.

834
00:31:06,866 --> 00:31:08,326
I'm seeing it right now.
I'm getting it.

835
00:31:08,368 --> 00:31:10,120
-You think I'm crazy.
-And I'm starting to understand.

836
00:31:10,161 --> 00:31:11,746
No, you're not crazy.
-Mm-hmm.

837
00:31:11,788 --> 00:31:13,081
-You're not crazy, but what I --
-Cheers.

838
00:31:13,123 --> 00:31:16,334
-What I am getting --
[ Laughs ]

839
00:31:16,376 --> 00:31:18,044
"I'm crazy. Cheers."

840
00:31:18,086 --> 00:31:19,629
-Cheers.
-Cheers.

841
00:31:19,671 --> 00:31:20,922
No, you're not crazy,

842
00:31:20,964 --> 00:31:23,883
but you are --
you're an overthinker.

843
00:31:23,925 --> 00:31:25,260
-Am I?
-Yeah.

844
00:31:25,301 --> 00:31:27,053
-I think I'm an underthinker,
to be honest.

845
00:31:27,095 --> 00:31:29,764
-You just gave me
seven different versions

846
00:31:29,806 --> 00:31:30,765
of you overthinking.

847
00:31:30,807 --> 00:31:31,975
-There are two versions.

848
00:31:32,017 --> 00:31:34,144
It's either gonna happen
or it's not.

849
00:31:34,185 --> 00:31:36,604
-Yeah, but there's two versions
to those two versions.

850
00:31:36,646 --> 00:31:39,649
-But I think regardless
of the overthinking,

851
00:31:39,691 --> 00:31:40,859
I'm still gonna do it.

852
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:42,777
Like, nothing has stopped me.

853
00:31:42,819 --> 00:31:44,529
Like, no matter how much
I overthink,

854
00:31:44,571 --> 00:31:45,780
I'm still gonna do it.

855
00:31:45,822 --> 00:31:47,282
I think that's the difference.

856
00:31:47,323 --> 00:31:49,284
Like, I will find the reasons
that it can't work,

857
00:31:49,325 --> 00:31:52,620
but still I think
what makes me me is, like,

858
00:31:52,662 --> 00:31:56,082
"Well, I could be the exception,
so I'm gonna still try."

859
00:31:56,124 --> 00:31:59,085
-Just looking through
another lens,

860
00:31:59,127 --> 00:32:02,297
will there be a high level
of determination

861
00:32:02,339 --> 00:32:05,759
to, if it's gonna work
it's gonna work,

862
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,135
if it's not, it's not?

863
00:32:07,177 --> 00:32:08,845
There's a level of ignorance.
-Yeah, for sure.

864
00:32:08,887 --> 00:32:09,971
-There's a level
of ignorance attached.

865
00:32:10,013 --> 00:32:11,681
-Blissful ignorance.
Yeah.

866
00:32:11,723 --> 00:32:13,058
-The downfall is the downfall,

867
00:32:13,099 --> 00:32:15,727
but it ain't a downfall
to me until it is.

868
00:32:15,769 --> 00:32:19,022
-Yeah, and that comes from,
I think, the underthinking part.

869
00:32:19,064 --> 00:32:20,857
Like, I think that that's
the strength of being --

870
00:32:20,899 --> 00:32:22,901
-You think I'm stupid.
-[ Laughs ]

871
00:32:22,942 --> 00:32:24,402
-She just called me
fucking stupid.

872
00:32:24,444 --> 00:32:26,196
Did anybody see that?
-No, I was talking about myself.

873
00:32:26,237 --> 00:32:27,655
-Did anybody just see that?

874
00:32:27,697 --> 00:32:30,825
She just hit me with a curveball
like I've never --

875
00:32:30,867 --> 00:32:33,161
Called me stupid
right to my goddamn face.

876
00:32:33,203 --> 00:32:35,580
Did anybody catch that?!
-I was talking about myself.

877
00:32:35,622 --> 00:32:37,123
-Let's play that back.

878
00:32:37,165 --> 00:32:39,125
Let's play that back
so you can see that delivery.

879
00:32:39,167 --> 00:32:40,835
-I was gonna say
that I'm impulsive,

880
00:32:40,877 --> 00:32:42,212
and that's what helps.

881
00:32:42,253 --> 00:32:44,130
-Yeah, after you called me
fucking stupid.

882
00:32:44,172 --> 00:32:45,840
You just looked me dead
in my eye, you said,

883
00:32:45,882 --> 00:32:46,925
"Yeah, that's underthinking."

884
00:32:46,966 --> 00:32:48,343
You did this to me.

885
00:32:48,385 --> 00:32:51,012
You said,
"That's classic underthinking."

886
00:32:51,054 --> 00:32:52,555
What?
What does that mean?

887
00:32:52,597 --> 00:32:54,557
-Did I do the motion?
-Yeah, you did this right here.

888
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:56,726
"That's underthinking."
It's fine.

889
00:32:56,768 --> 00:32:59,229
I'll figure that out later.
That's out of here.

890
00:32:59,270 --> 00:33:00,939
That's not gonna make the cut.

891
00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:02,941
I'm joking.
I'm joking.

892
00:33:02,982 --> 00:33:04,359
Uh, no.
I definitely --

893
00:33:04,401 --> 00:33:06,528
I definitely understand
what you're saying.

894
00:33:06,569 --> 00:33:08,988
But just staying in the world
of entrepreneur, right,

895
00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:11,324
and we're talking
about the hustle

896
00:33:11,366 --> 00:33:13,535
and the ideas
that attach to that.

897
00:33:13,576 --> 00:33:16,037
I want to get into
what I started off with.

898
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:18,081
I started off talking about you,
the community,

899
00:33:18,123 --> 00:33:20,250
you know, where you come from,

900
00:33:20,291 --> 00:33:22,585
the businesses
that you have stayed true to,

901
00:33:22,627 --> 00:33:24,462
the things that
you are now developing.

902
00:33:24,504 --> 00:33:27,007
You have a coffee shop, right?
-I sure do, Hilltop.

903
00:33:27,048 --> 00:33:28,425
-Hilltop coffee shop.
-Mm-hmm.

904
00:33:28,466 --> 00:33:33,304
-And your reason behind
the coffee shop was what?

905
00:33:33,346 --> 00:33:35,306
-I love to write
in coffee shops.

906
00:33:35,348 --> 00:33:37,392
You know, I live, like I said,
in South L.A.,

907
00:33:37,434 --> 00:33:39,644
and I would always
have to leave South L.A.

908
00:33:39,686 --> 00:33:41,604
to, like, write in coffee shops.

909
00:33:41,646 --> 00:33:43,314
And there's just something

910
00:33:43,356 --> 00:33:47,027
about being around other people
working that inspires me

911
00:33:47,068 --> 00:33:48,194
that I need to be around.

912
00:33:48,236 --> 00:33:49,487
And so I was just like,

913
00:33:49,529 --> 00:33:51,614
"I really want one
in my own neighborhood."

914
00:33:51,656 --> 00:33:54,409
And it's a dream
that I've had for awhile.

915
00:33:54,451 --> 00:33:57,454
And, you know, I told --
when I got a business manager,

916
00:33:57,495 --> 00:34:00,457
I was like, "Hey, this is --
this is my goal."

917
00:34:00,498 --> 00:34:03,043
And that was, like,
before I got "Insecure."

918
00:34:03,084 --> 00:34:05,253
And so he was just like,
"Okay, yeah.

919
00:34:05,295 --> 00:34:06,755
I hear you.
I hear you."

920
00:34:06,796 --> 00:34:08,631
And so then when "Insecure"
popped up, I was like,

921
00:34:08,673 --> 00:34:10,508
"So, yeah, I really want
this coffee shop."

922
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:12,218
And he was like, "Okay.
Well, I have to ask you.

923
00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:14,262
Are you gonna grind
the beans yourself?"

924
00:34:14,304 --> 00:34:15,930
And I was like, "Oh, no."

925
00:34:15,972 --> 00:34:19,267
And he was like, "Well, let me,
like, find you a partner."

926
00:34:19,309 --> 00:34:22,228
And so I partnered with
these guys Ajay and Yonnie.

927
00:34:22,270 --> 00:34:26,107
And they had started one
in my neighborhood initially.

928
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:27,525
So then we started one
in Inglewood

929
00:34:27,567 --> 00:34:29,611
and then in Eagle Rock,
and we're expanding.

930
00:34:29,652 --> 00:34:32,280
And it's just been about
fostering community

931
00:34:32,322 --> 00:34:34,449
in our neighborhoods.

932
00:34:34,491 --> 00:34:36,493
-I love that
it's having success.

933
00:34:36,534 --> 00:34:37,660
What else, though?

934
00:34:37,702 --> 00:34:39,621
You have something else
in the community.

935
00:34:39,662 --> 00:34:43,625
-Well, I have a hair-care line
called Sienna Naturals.

936
00:34:43,667 --> 00:34:47,379
And that comes from, you know,
just loving my natural hair

937
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:49,631
and wanting to be able
to protect it.

938
00:34:49,673 --> 00:34:53,468
And so I partnered with the
founder of that, Hannah Diop.

939
00:34:53,510 --> 00:34:57,263
And that is -- That's like
a start-up from the ground up.

940
00:34:57,305 --> 00:35:00,558
And, yeah, then just
the various businesses

941
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,143
that, you know,
like you were talking about,

942
00:35:02,185 --> 00:35:04,145
the ecosystem
in the HOORAE umbrella

943
00:35:04,187 --> 00:35:06,356
where radio is concerned,
like, our music label,

944
00:35:06,398 --> 00:35:08,149
our talent management company.

945
00:35:08,191 --> 00:35:09,984
-Yeah, you have a full-fledged,

946
00:35:10,026 --> 00:35:13,321
like, infrastructure
at this point.

947
00:35:13,363 --> 00:35:15,615
The business of you
and around you

948
00:35:15,657 --> 00:35:19,703
is not just in television and
producing, which is what I love.

949
00:35:19,744 --> 00:35:22,956
Like, you have tentacles.
-Tentacles, I like that.

950
00:35:22,997 --> 00:35:25,625
-You got a tree, and you got a
bunch of branches on this tree.

951
00:35:25,667 --> 00:35:29,170
Right now, sitting in the space
of success, right?

952
00:35:29,212 --> 00:35:31,172
Where's your mind-set at now

953
00:35:31,214 --> 00:35:33,174
with what you want
and where you want to go?

954
00:35:33,216 --> 00:35:35,010
-There's many.

955
00:35:35,051 --> 00:35:36,970
One is ownership.
-Mm-hmm.

956
00:35:37,012 --> 00:35:38,638
-Like, I want -- Like you,

957
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,599
I don't want to be able to be
in a position where I'm like,

958
00:35:41,641 --> 00:35:43,518
"Oh, they can
take this away from me."

959
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,312
Like, I want those --
I want that distribution.

960
00:35:46,354 --> 00:35:49,024
I want those platforms.
I want to own my shit.

961
00:35:49,065 --> 00:35:50,525
And I want to be international.

962
00:35:50,567 --> 00:35:53,528
You know, I think especially
where we're concerned,

963
00:35:53,570 --> 00:35:56,740
like, the idea
that we don't travel,

964
00:35:56,781 --> 00:35:58,074
the idea that we're not,

965
00:35:58,116 --> 00:36:00,326
you know, marketable
in these specific areas.

966
00:36:00,368 --> 00:36:01,911
Like, Black people
are so international.

967
00:36:01,953 --> 00:36:04,080
I want to be in the U.K.
I want to be in France.

968
00:36:04,122 --> 00:36:05,623
I want to create.

969
00:36:05,665 --> 00:36:08,335
I want to be an arms dealer
for multiple countries.

970
00:36:08,376 --> 00:36:10,045
-Well, now hold on.
Now, wait a second.

971
00:36:10,086 --> 00:36:11,921
-Yeah, yeah.
I'm talking about guns.

972
00:36:11,963 --> 00:36:14,716
-Well, hold on. Now that sh--
-I'm talking about violence.

973
00:36:14,758 --> 00:36:17,344
-Okay. Alright.
"I'm talking about violence."

974
00:36:17,385 --> 00:36:18,720
"I want to go."
-Yeah.

975
00:36:18,762 --> 00:36:19,846
-"I want to do --"

976
00:36:19,888 --> 00:36:21,765
-I want to do bad things
across the world.

977
00:36:21,806 --> 00:36:23,933
But I want that.
I want to be a global company.

978
00:36:23,975 --> 00:36:26,144
And then I can feel good,

979
00:36:26,186 --> 00:36:28,229
like, "Okay,
I've done my job here."

980
00:36:28,271 --> 00:36:34,194
-I think you're more than
in position to do that.

981
00:36:34,235 --> 00:36:36,780
And I don't know
if you know that or not.

982
00:36:36,821 --> 00:36:38,114
But you are, right?

983
00:36:38,156 --> 00:36:40,992
Like, it's --
it's more about the hustle

984
00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,036
of putting your feet
on the ground internationally.

985
00:36:43,078 --> 00:36:45,955
-Yeah. I mean, and I'm more
than happy to go over there.

986
00:36:45,997 --> 00:36:49,918
And I've seen, like, just even
Black people in other countries

987
00:36:49,959 --> 00:36:52,962
wanting that representation for
themselves and not getting it,

988
00:36:53,004 --> 00:36:55,256
wanting to see themselves
in a why

989
00:36:55,298 --> 00:36:57,092
that they just haven't
been shown before.

990
00:36:57,133 --> 00:36:58,843
And if I could help in a way,

991
00:36:58,885 --> 00:37:02,055
whether it's empowering,
like, other people,

992
00:37:02,097 --> 00:37:04,766
the next you, the next Ava
out their, whoever it is,

993
00:37:04,808 --> 00:37:09,437
like, then that would make me
the happiest in the world.

994
00:37:09,479 --> 00:37:12,273
But do you know
when you're gonna stop?

995
00:37:12,315 --> 00:37:14,442
-Do I know when
I'm gonna stop working?

996
00:37:14,484 --> 00:37:16,861
-Mm-hmm.
-I'm back and forth.

997
00:37:16,903 --> 00:37:18,238
I've told some people --

998
00:37:18,279 --> 00:37:20,573
-Have you ever said, like --
-I've said a lot.

999
00:37:20,615 --> 00:37:22,158
-You've said
that you're gonna stop?

1000
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,496
-I've said -- I've given at
the age 50 is my goal to --

1001
00:37:26,538 --> 00:37:29,374
-Oh, that classic age thing.
-Yeah, like that classic.

1002
00:37:29,416 --> 00:37:31,042
And then I was like,
"Ah, that's probably bullshit."

1003
00:37:31,084 --> 00:37:33,837
And then I was like, "Well,
no, when I do said things."

1004
00:37:33,878 --> 00:37:39,759
But the idea of what can
keeps changing

1005
00:37:39,801 --> 00:37:42,387
based off things
that keep on, like, unfolding.

1006
00:37:42,429 --> 00:37:45,640
So it's not about me no more.

1007
00:37:45,682 --> 00:37:49,185
If you're now on the side
of talent, talent management,

1008
00:37:49,227 --> 00:37:51,396
creative, opportunities,

1009
00:37:51,438 --> 00:37:53,857
this door is now open
for you to come in.

1010
00:37:53,898 --> 00:37:56,568
And when you come in this door,
guess what.

1011
00:37:56,609 --> 00:37:59,404
You're leaving
with the possibility

1012
00:37:59,446 --> 00:38:01,906
of becoming much more
than what you came in at.

1013
00:38:01,948 --> 00:38:04,159
That's what we do here
at my company.

1014
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,994
That's significant.
Like, that's --

1015
00:38:06,036 --> 00:38:07,412
-Yeah.

1016
00:38:07,454 --> 00:38:11,374
-And if you really want
to be even more specific,

1017
00:38:11,416 --> 00:38:14,878
you're not talking about
the problems in the business.

1018
00:38:14,919 --> 00:38:17,005
You're solving them.

1019
00:38:17,047 --> 00:38:18,548
You're solving them.

1020
00:38:18,590 --> 00:38:21,760
You're now on the other side
of the conversation, Issa.

1021
00:38:21,801 --> 00:38:22,761
You're solving them.

1022
00:38:22,802 --> 00:38:24,387
Like, you were like,
"Yeah, well,

1023
00:38:24,429 --> 00:38:26,806
I did these acting gigs
and created these things,

1024
00:38:26,848 --> 00:38:29,851
but I didn't see enough
of us behind the camera.

1025
00:38:29,893 --> 00:38:32,187
I didn't see enough of us
in front of the camera,

1026
00:38:32,228 --> 00:38:34,356
so, alright,
well, I created it."

1027
00:38:34,397 --> 00:38:36,524
Well, go look at "Insecure."

1028
00:38:36,566 --> 00:38:38,693
Go look at that cast.

1029
00:38:38,735 --> 00:38:40,320
Go look at the goddamn "Rap" --

1030
00:38:40,362 --> 00:38:41,529
What is it? "Rap"...
-"Rap Sh!t."

1031
00:38:41,571 --> 00:38:44,532
-"Rap Sh!t,"
rap, uh, show, shit.

1032
00:38:44,574 --> 00:38:46,201
-You sound like my mom.

1033
00:38:46,242 --> 00:38:48,787
"What is it, 'Rap Silly'?
'Rap Show'?"

1034
00:38:48,828 --> 00:38:50,622
-"Rap City."
Go look at it.

1035
00:38:50,663 --> 00:38:52,207
What does it look like?

1036
00:38:52,248 --> 00:38:53,833
So when you're talking
about change,

1037
00:38:53,875 --> 00:38:56,878
I'm just saying, I'm not
telling you to celebrate,

1038
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,299
but I'm telling you to realize
that you are now in a position

1039
00:39:01,341 --> 00:39:04,511
where your actions
match your words.

1040
00:39:04,552 --> 00:39:06,388
-Thank you,
-Everybody can't say that.

1041
00:39:06,429 --> 00:39:07,889
Everybody can't say that.

1042
00:39:07,931 --> 00:39:09,891
So when you sit here with
all these goddamn questions

1043
00:39:09,933 --> 00:39:12,102
of what -- "But I think,"
well, hold on.

1044
00:39:12,143 --> 00:39:14,562
-[ Laughs ]
It's my process.

1045
00:39:14,604 --> 00:39:17,774
-Your process.
I want you to have a second.

1046
00:39:17,816 --> 00:39:20,151
I want you to have a second
where you just acknowledge,

1047
00:39:20,193 --> 00:39:21,986
and while she takes a second
to acknowledge, guys,

1048
00:39:22,028 --> 00:39:23,405
I'm gonna give you guys
a second to get up

1049
00:39:23,446 --> 00:39:24,989
and go to the bathroom.

1050
00:39:25,031 --> 00:39:27,117
We got more "Hart to Heart"
when we get back after this.

1051
00:39:27,158 --> 00:39:30,537
How do I do it?
-Shut up!

1052
00:39:30,578 --> 00:39:32,747
-How do I do it?
Did anybody see that toss?

1053
00:39:32,789 --> 00:39:38,837
**

1054
00:39:42,799 --> 00:39:47,762
**

1055
00:39:47,804 --> 00:39:49,597
-Welcome back
to "Hart to Heart."

1056
00:39:49,639 --> 00:39:51,641
The conversation
is only getting bigger.

1057
00:39:51,683 --> 00:39:52,892
It's only getting better.
Why?

1058
00:39:52,934 --> 00:39:54,519
Well, because
we're still drinking.

1059
00:39:54,561 --> 00:39:57,105
Guys, I'm here
with the legend Issa Rae,

1060
00:39:57,147 --> 00:39:58,440
and I'm having a blast.

1061
00:39:58,481 --> 00:40:00,233
Issa, we've talked
about the business.

1062
00:40:00,275 --> 00:40:01,609
We've talked about your success.

1063
00:40:01,651 --> 00:40:03,236
We've talked about
your evolvement.

1064
00:40:03,278 --> 00:40:06,197
More importantly, we've talked
about the change that you wanted

1065
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,576
and the change that you're now
seeing in real time.

1066
00:40:09,617 --> 00:40:12,203
Let's get personal.
You got married, right?

1067
00:40:12,245 --> 00:40:13,455
I'm gonna be honest with you.

1068
00:40:13,496 --> 00:40:15,915
I thought that it was,
like, a joke.

1069
00:40:15,957 --> 00:40:19,044
Like, when you posted
a picture that was like --

1070
00:40:19,085 --> 00:40:20,754
-You thought it was a joke?
Oh, okay.

1071
00:40:20,795 --> 00:40:23,798
-In the picture,
like, your caption,

1072
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,718
it was like, "Yeah, I met a guy,
and we did like a photo shoot."

1073
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,512
And I was like,
"Oh, she's such a genius."

1074
00:40:29,554 --> 00:40:32,432
I didn't know it was real.
I fell for it.

1075
00:40:32,474 --> 00:40:35,518
By the way,
I want to say I'm guilty.

1076
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,479
I fell for it.
I was like, "Oh."

1077
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:38,646
People always
in people's business.

1078
00:40:38,688 --> 00:40:41,483
Damn.
It's just a photo shoot.

1079
00:40:41,524 --> 00:40:43,276
It was real.
You really got married?

1080
00:40:43,318 --> 00:40:44,861
-I did.

1081
00:40:44,903 --> 00:40:47,947
-I love the idea of keeping
your business to yourself.

1082
00:40:47,989 --> 00:40:50,575
I love the idea of you going
and having a moment to yourself,

1083
00:40:50,617 --> 00:40:54,245
and doing that, was there like
a decision between you and him,

1084
00:40:54,287 --> 00:40:56,039
like, "Alright, fuck it.
Let's just tell people."

1085
00:40:56,081 --> 00:40:58,875
Like, if you kept it that much
of a secret,

1086
00:40:58,917 --> 00:41:01,294
why did you just decide
to tell people at that point?

1087
00:41:01,336 --> 00:41:04,798
-Oh, 'cause I was told that --
that it was gonna get out.

1088
00:41:04,839 --> 00:41:06,841
-Okay.
-Yeah, I was told that it was --

1089
00:41:06,883 --> 00:41:08,301
that there was a possibility

1090
00:41:08,343 --> 00:41:10,804
that this outlet
had discovered it.

1091
00:41:10,845 --> 00:41:12,097
And, you know,
I was weighing like,

1092
00:41:12,138 --> 00:41:14,599
"Oh, this is a happy time
in my life.

1093
00:41:14,641 --> 00:41:17,769
Like, do I want to post it?

1094
00:41:17,811 --> 00:41:19,604
Do I want to put it
on the Gram?"

1095
00:41:19,646 --> 00:41:22,315
And, you know, when I found out
that information,

1096
00:41:22,357 --> 00:41:23,900
I was just like, "Oh, okay.

1097
00:41:23,942 --> 00:41:25,360
Well, then I definitely
want to get ahead of it first

1098
00:41:25,402 --> 00:41:28,488
in my own terms
and just the way that I would."

1099
00:41:28,530 --> 00:41:30,740
So, you know,
that's why I ended up

1100
00:41:30,782 --> 00:41:32,450
putting it out there like that.

1101
00:41:32,492 --> 00:41:36,788
-You know, is there the thought
of, like, kids soon, not soon?

1102
00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:38,456
What?
What are we thinking about?

1103
00:41:38,498 --> 00:41:42,002
-Man, that's, like,
the struggle.

1104
00:41:42,043 --> 00:41:43,753
-You're a workaholic.
That's why I asked you.

1105
00:41:43,795 --> 00:41:45,171
-Huh?
-'Cause you're a workaholic.

1106
00:41:45,213 --> 00:41:46,798
-Yeah, but, I mean, like,

1107
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,383
even what you were talking about
earlier, like, the legacy of it,

1108
00:41:48,425 --> 00:41:50,927
like, to me, sometimes
the legacy is through kids.

1109
00:41:50,969 --> 00:41:52,303
I'm like, "What are you
talking about legacy?

1110
00:41:52,345 --> 00:41:53,388
You got kids."

1111
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:54,973
Like, they're gonna live on

1112
00:41:55,015 --> 00:41:59,310
and they're gonna, you know,
tout your accomplishments.

1113
00:41:59,352 --> 00:42:02,564
Like, you are gonna live forever
just by them alone.

1114
00:42:02,605 --> 00:42:04,024
-They can also take you down.

1115
00:42:04,065 --> 00:42:07,068
-[ Laughs ]
-Let's just be honest.

1116
00:42:07,110 --> 00:42:09,946
-Yes, but they still will take
you down with your last name.

1117
00:42:09,988 --> 00:42:12,699
-My last name will be attached
to them, but I got four of them,

1118
00:42:12,741 --> 00:42:17,203
and I'll be honest with you,
one of them is a gamble.

1119
00:42:17,245 --> 00:42:18,580
One of them could --

1120
00:42:18,621 --> 00:42:20,165
-You don't ever wonder, like,

1121
00:42:20,206 --> 00:42:21,833
"Oh, are they gonna see this
and they gonna be offended"?

1122
00:42:21,875 --> 00:42:23,335
-I'm talking about
the youngest one, Ori.

1123
00:42:23,376 --> 00:42:25,045
The other ones, I'm safe.

1124
00:42:25,086 --> 00:42:26,504
The youngest?

1125
00:42:26,546 --> 00:42:27,839
-Might surprise you.

1126
00:42:27,881 --> 00:42:29,341
I remember you talking about,
you know --

1127
00:42:29,382 --> 00:42:31,134
-But they overcame that.

1128
00:42:31,176 --> 00:42:32,510
They had my trust.

1129
00:42:32,552 --> 00:42:34,012
The younger one --
-I was worried.

1130
00:42:34,054 --> 00:42:36,681
-I don't know.
I don't know.

1131
00:42:36,723 --> 00:42:38,224
-The youngest one
is gonna surprise you

1132
00:42:38,266 --> 00:42:40,852
on some "Succession" shit.
-Well, let's just hope.

1133
00:42:40,894 --> 00:42:42,812
-But for me, yeah, like,
I'm thinking about it.

1134
00:42:42,854 --> 00:42:45,857
But I'm also thinking about not.

1135
00:42:45,899 --> 00:42:48,943
And, you know,
it's a constant conversation.

1136
00:42:48,985 --> 00:42:52,364
For me, like, it does come from,
like, the workaholic-ness

1137
00:42:52,405 --> 00:42:54,866
and feeling like
those window opportunities --

1138
00:42:54,908 --> 00:42:57,619
-Stop talk-- Stop.
-You telling me, "Be honest."

1139
00:42:57,660 --> 00:42:58,953
-I know.
Let's be honest, but stop.

1140
00:42:58,995 --> 00:43:00,372
But I don't want you
to keep talking

1141
00:43:00,413 --> 00:43:01,706
about the window of opportunity.

1142
00:43:01,748 --> 00:43:04,834
-But you're also not a woman.

1143
00:43:04,876 --> 00:43:07,128
And, like, it takes me
out the game.

1144
00:43:07,170 --> 00:43:08,630
Like, if I'm pregnant right now,
and I know that there are --

1145
00:43:08,672 --> 00:43:09,881
-What do you mean,
takes you out?

1146
00:43:09,923 --> 00:43:11,424
-It takes me out the game
for a minute.

1147
00:43:11,466 --> 00:43:13,885
It takes me out the game for,
like, certain things.

1148
00:43:13,927 --> 00:43:18,098
Like, if I'm six months pregnant
and I get to be the next --

1149
00:43:18,139 --> 00:43:21,601
not that I want this -- the next
superhero, I can't do that.

1150
00:43:21,643 --> 00:43:23,645
It takes me out
until it's available.

1151
00:43:23,687 --> 00:43:26,398
Like, there's just those things
that I have to think about

1152
00:43:26,439 --> 00:43:28,358
that I actively care about.

1153
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,819
Don't play me.
-Wait. I'm not gonna play.

1154
00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:32,404
I'm not gonna play you,

1155
00:43:32,445 --> 00:43:35,407
but I'm gonna say something
to you very, like, direct.

1156
00:43:35,448 --> 00:43:37,117
-What?

1157
00:43:37,158 --> 00:43:41,663
-You have made decisions
that show that you can operate

1158
00:43:41,705 --> 00:43:44,749
and navigate
how you choose in your career.

1159
00:43:44,791 --> 00:43:46,292
Have you not?
-Yeah,

1160
00:43:46,334 --> 00:43:48,336
but there's still, like --

1161
00:43:48,378 --> 00:43:51,840
there's still
the acknowledgment that --

1162
00:43:53,133 --> 00:43:58,096
There is --
To be 100%, like, clear,

1163
00:43:58,138 --> 00:44:00,181
there is a window
for certain women for,

1164
00:44:00,223 --> 00:44:03,101
like, to have kids,
to have this moment,

1165
00:44:03,143 --> 00:44:05,061
and also to be successful
in the industry

1166
00:44:05,103 --> 00:44:08,273
without being looked at as,
like, old or over the window.

1167
00:44:08,314 --> 00:44:10,066
Like, that's just something
that's clear to me.

1168
00:44:10,108 --> 00:44:11,693
That's something that I've
watched growing up of just,

1169
00:44:11,735 --> 00:44:15,655
like, "Oh, damn, I watched her
career transition from this,

1170
00:44:15,697 --> 00:44:19,284
like, the hot girl, to now,
like, oh, she's only the mom."

1171
00:44:19,325 --> 00:44:21,202
-Well, I can't speak on that,
like you said,

1172
00:44:21,244 --> 00:44:23,747
because I'm not a woman,
so, you know,

1173
00:44:23,788 --> 00:44:25,457
I'm not going to have

1174
00:44:25,498 --> 00:44:27,917
a firm stake in the ground
as to what I think.

1175
00:44:27,959 --> 00:44:31,379
Like, that's something
that only a woman

1176
00:44:31,421 --> 00:44:34,716
can understand and operate in.

1177
00:44:34,758 --> 00:44:39,471
But what I do know,
and I know to be a fact,

1178
00:44:39,512 --> 00:44:42,057
the world of creative
has no time stamp.

1179
00:44:42,098 --> 00:44:43,475
-The world of creative, yes.

1180
00:44:43,516 --> 00:44:45,352
Behind the scenes,
I have the confidence that,

1181
00:44:45,393 --> 00:44:47,145
yeah, like, I'm gonna
make shit for sure.

1182
00:44:47,187 --> 00:44:49,898
-So if you do choose --
That's what I'm going --

1183
00:44:49,939 --> 00:44:52,317
-So, I'm saying, like,
right now, this is --

1184
00:44:52,359 --> 00:44:55,695
The in-front-of-the-camera time,
to me, does have a window,

1185
00:44:55,737 --> 00:44:58,907
like, as far as
where kids are concerned.

1186
00:44:58,948 --> 00:45:00,742
So to me, I want
to take advantage of that.

1187
00:45:00,784 --> 00:45:06,498
-I want you to know that you
are not only a beautiful woman.

1188
00:45:06,539 --> 00:45:10,377
-Thank you.
-You are a great representation

1189
00:45:10,418 --> 00:45:14,506
and example of what
our beautiful women

1190
00:45:14,547 --> 00:45:16,174
look like on-screen, right?

1191
00:45:16,216 --> 00:45:18,843
Like, that's real.
That's factual.

1192
00:45:18,885 --> 00:45:20,762
There's not a time stamp
on that.

1193
00:45:20,804 --> 00:45:23,098
Like, when I look
at Angela Bassett,

1194
00:45:23,139 --> 00:45:25,684
when I look at Halle Berry --
-If you ran Hollywood,

1195
00:45:25,725 --> 00:45:29,062
then I would feel completely --
I would be like, "Oh, cool.

1196
00:45:29,104 --> 00:45:30,647
Let's have a baby tomorrow.

1197
00:45:30,689 --> 00:45:32,148
We good."
-I'm just saying.

1198
00:45:32,190 --> 00:45:35,860
I'm saying, like, I get you
saying like, "If I ran."

1199
00:45:35,902 --> 00:45:38,822
You're positioning yourself
to run.

1200
00:45:38,863 --> 00:45:41,449
Like, here's
our different mental.

1201
00:45:41,491 --> 00:45:43,034
You're saying, "If I ran."

1202
00:45:43,076 --> 00:45:46,538
I don't run Hollywood,
but I run my business.

1203
00:45:46,579 --> 00:45:49,874
And my business is very valuable
to Hollywood.

1204
00:45:49,916 --> 00:45:52,961
Hollywood needs business.
They need content.

1205
00:45:53,003 --> 00:45:55,088
We create content.
-Yes.

1206
00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:58,133
-We are a part of
the small percentage of people

1207
00:45:58,174 --> 00:46:01,386
that are talent in front
and behind the camera.

1208
00:46:01,428 --> 00:46:03,263
That does not exist.

1209
00:46:03,304 --> 00:46:08,184
So the percentile of 0.4%
that you're in,

1210
00:46:08,226 --> 00:46:10,729
it allows you to move
and operate differently.

1211
00:46:10,770 --> 00:46:12,731
I don't want to change
your mind-set.

1212
00:46:12,772 --> 00:46:14,941
I'm just trying
to make you aware.

1213
00:46:14,983 --> 00:46:19,279
You are a part
of a very small piece,

1214
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:25,201
and this piece navigates
through hallways, back doors,

1215
00:46:25,243 --> 00:46:27,412
fucking hills, peaks, valleys.

1216
00:46:27,454 --> 00:46:30,206
-So, are you saying
get pregnant tomorrow?

1217
00:46:30,248 --> 00:46:33,752
-I'm saying that you --
I can't say it.

1218
00:46:33,793 --> 00:46:36,004
I got to be careful how I say
this because, once again,

1219
00:46:36,046 --> 00:46:39,424
I cannot speak for a woman
because I'm not a woman.

1220
00:46:39,466 --> 00:46:43,053
I'm saying that your happiness
is your happiness.

1221
00:46:43,094 --> 00:46:45,013
-I accept that.
-That's it.

1222
00:46:45,055 --> 00:46:46,097
Well, you have no choice
to accept it

1223
00:46:46,139 --> 00:46:47,766
because it's actually right.

1224
00:46:47,807 --> 00:46:49,309
-Okay, well, calm down.
-Okay?

1225
00:46:49,351 --> 00:46:51,728
-Now you Hollywood.
Okay.

1226
00:46:51,770 --> 00:46:52,771
Okay.

1227
00:46:52,812 --> 00:46:54,272
"I'm correct."
-Okay.

1228
00:46:54,314 --> 00:46:55,899
Okay, guys, we're gonna
take a quick break.

1229
00:46:55,940 --> 00:46:58,485
We'll be right back with more
"Hart to Heart" after this.

1230
00:46:58,526 --> 00:47:03,365
**

1231
00:47:06,826 --> 00:47:11,956
**

1232
00:47:11,998 --> 00:47:13,041
-Welcome back
to "Hart to Heart."

1233
00:47:13,083 --> 00:47:15,043
I'm sitting here with Issa Rae.

1234
00:47:15,085 --> 00:47:17,295
Family aside, do you
come from a big family?

1235
00:47:17,337 --> 00:47:19,547
-I do.
I'm the middle of five.

1236
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:20,590
-Five?!
-Yeah.

1237
00:47:20,632 --> 00:47:22,050
-God damn.

1238
00:47:22,092 --> 00:47:23,968
Same mom, same dad?

1239
00:47:24,010 --> 00:47:25,220
Wow!

1240
00:47:25,261 --> 00:47:27,722
-Yes.
-Wow!

1241
00:47:27,764 --> 00:47:30,058
-They made me want
to have a big family.

1242
00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:32,394
I wanted four kids.
-Dad -- good for him.

1243
00:47:32,435 --> 00:47:34,104
-Okay.
-That's what I'm talking about.

1244
00:47:34,145 --> 00:47:35,730
-No. Yeah.
-Yeah.

1245
00:47:35,772 --> 00:47:37,232
-Alright.
-Hell, yeah.

1246
00:47:37,273 --> 00:47:39,901
-Sure. But he came
from a big-ass family, too.

1247
00:47:39,943 --> 00:47:41,528
He had a lot of siblings.

1248
00:47:41,569 --> 00:47:44,406
I don't even know the number.
-I know what that mean.

1249
00:47:44,447 --> 00:47:46,282
-Yeah, I know, right?
-Yeah, I know what that mean.

1250
00:47:46,324 --> 00:47:49,077
-Yeah, you do.
-My dad had that.

1251
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:50,578
-Your dad had that?
-Yeah, my dad passed away,

1252
00:47:50,620 --> 00:47:52,288
and I saw three niggas
at a funeral

1253
00:47:52,330 --> 00:47:56,418
that said they was
my other brothers.

1254
00:47:56,459 --> 00:47:59,629
"I have no idea who you is."
Yeah.

1255
00:47:59,671 --> 00:48:00,964
-Did they look like you?

1256
00:48:01,006 --> 00:48:02,757
-Hey, I don't know
what they looked like.

1257
00:48:02,799 --> 00:48:04,092
"I'm Stanley."

1258
00:48:04,134 --> 00:48:05,760
"You better get the fuck
out of my face, man."

1259
00:48:05,802 --> 00:48:08,513
-[ Laughs ]

1260
00:48:08,555 --> 00:48:10,640
-"I don't know who you is.
Jack, get out of here."

1261
00:48:10,682 --> 00:48:12,267
"Yeah, I don't know if your dad
told you about me.

1262
00:48:12,308 --> 00:48:15,020
I'm Stanley."
-[ Laughs ]

1263
00:48:15,061 --> 00:48:16,646
Why are their voices so deep?

1264
00:48:16,688 --> 00:48:18,940
-I don't know who they were,
but they all talked like that.

1265
00:48:18,982 --> 00:48:22,110
They all talked like Batman.

1266
00:48:22,152 --> 00:48:24,195
"Yeah, I just wanted
to let you know --"

1267
00:48:24,237 --> 00:48:26,114
Yeah, I know exactly
what you talking about.

1268
00:48:26,156 --> 00:48:27,490
Yeah, when you said, "My dad,"

1269
00:48:27,532 --> 00:48:29,409
I know exactly
what you're talking about.

1270
00:48:29,451 --> 00:48:31,077
Okay.
But yours is different?

1271
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:34,205
-My dad's dad, but my dad, you
know, there's only five of us.

1272
00:48:34,247 --> 00:48:36,249
I'm pretty positive of that.

1273
00:48:36,291 --> 00:48:37,667
And then my mom
had a smaller family.

1274
00:48:37,709 --> 00:48:41,296
She only had a sister.
-Okay. So all close?

1275
00:48:41,338 --> 00:48:43,089
Brothers, sisters?
-Yeah, my brothers and sisters.

1276
00:48:43,131 --> 00:48:44,466
Yeah.
-Really?

1277
00:48:44,507 --> 00:48:46,968
And the reaction to your success
from your family?

1278
00:48:47,010 --> 00:48:49,888
-So positive.

1279
00:48:49,929 --> 00:48:52,349
Yeah, just pride.

1280
00:48:53,350 --> 00:48:55,352
My dad was always like,
you know,

1281
00:48:55,393 --> 00:48:58,229
in terms of me wanting
to pursue this, was just like,

1282
00:48:58,271 --> 00:48:59,814
"This should be the backup plan.

1283
00:48:59,856 --> 00:49:03,401
You should always have,
you know, education,

1284
00:49:03,443 --> 00:49:04,986
whether it's law
or business degree.

1285
00:49:05,028 --> 00:49:06,404
Like, you just
have to have that."

1286
00:49:06,446 --> 00:49:09,157
-Do you have one?
Do you have a backup plan?

1287
00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:11,409
-Not anymore. No.
-You did at one point?

1288
00:49:11,451 --> 00:49:12,827
-Yeah, for sure.
-What was the backup plan?

1289
00:49:12,869 --> 00:49:14,120
-I mean, I was listening to him

1290
00:49:14,162 --> 00:49:16,164
'cause, you know,
I felt like I had to,

1291
00:49:16,206 --> 00:49:18,041
but I was gonna go
to law school.

1292
00:49:18,083 --> 00:49:21,086
I took the LSAT,
and then I was just like,

1293
00:49:21,127 --> 00:49:22,462
"I really don't want
to do this,"

1294
00:49:22,504 --> 00:49:24,005
'cause I had a friend
who was just like --

1295
00:49:24,047 --> 00:49:25,757
she wanted to be a lawyer.

1296
00:49:25,799 --> 00:49:27,467
And I was like,
"I don't feel that."

1297
00:49:27,509 --> 00:49:29,177
So I was like,
"Well, I love business,

1298
00:49:29,219 --> 00:49:30,512
so let me
go to business school."

1299
00:49:30,553 --> 00:49:32,764
That falls within his,
like, mandates.

1300
00:49:32,806 --> 00:49:35,850
And so just when I was
about to take the GMAT,

1301
00:49:35,892 --> 00:49:37,185
"Awkward Black Girl" popped off,

1302
00:49:37,227 --> 00:49:39,229
and I was like,
"Oh, never mind, Dad."

1303
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:41,064
And then even still
after, like --

1304
00:49:41,106 --> 00:49:42,399
up until, like, the Shonda deal,

1305
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,192
up until "Insecure,"
he was asking about,

1306
00:49:44,234 --> 00:49:45,860
like, "Well, what's up
with grad school?

1307
00:49:45,902 --> 00:49:47,195
What's up with grad school?"

1308
00:49:47,237 --> 00:49:48,446
-When did it click
and become a reality,

1309
00:49:48,488 --> 00:49:50,031
like, okay, "My daughter
is successful"?

1310
00:49:50,073 --> 00:49:51,408
-When I was on "NPR."

1311
00:49:51,449 --> 00:49:54,244
Then he was like,
"Oh, wow, you're doing okay.

1312
00:49:54,285 --> 00:49:56,454
NPR.
I listen to this every morning.

1313
00:49:56,496 --> 00:49:58,081
Okay, this is a thing."

1314
00:49:58,123 --> 00:50:01,459
And so that to him was like,
"Okay, she's on the right path

1315
00:50:01,501 --> 00:50:03,962
and, you know,
she doesn't need me."

1316
00:50:04,004 --> 00:50:06,631
And that's all parents care
about, like, "Are you good?

1317
00:50:06,673 --> 00:50:09,384
Because I just want you to be
good at the end of the day."

1318
00:50:09,426 --> 00:50:11,052
But everybody else
is, like, super positive.

1319
00:50:11,094 --> 00:50:15,181
And for a while, like, my
older brothers, the top two --

1320
00:50:15,223 --> 00:50:16,725
I'm right in the middle --
my older brothers

1321
00:50:16,766 --> 00:50:21,479
were just very successful
in, like, the corporate world,

1322
00:50:21,521 --> 00:50:23,606
and the three of us,
the bottom three --

1323
00:50:23,648 --> 00:50:25,817
that's what we call ourselves --
we were kind of the losers

1324
00:50:25,859 --> 00:50:28,236
'cause we were just --
-Well, that's aggressive.

1325
00:50:28,278 --> 00:50:29,904
-Because we were, like,
you know,

1326
00:50:29,946 --> 00:50:35,243
we didn't have traditional jobs
and we were pursuing the arts,

1327
00:50:35,285 --> 00:50:36,327
which is just like --
that's not --

1328
00:50:36,369 --> 00:50:38,747
-Losers.
-[ Laughs ]

1329
00:50:38,788 --> 00:50:41,624
Yeah, my younger brothers,
you already know.

1330
00:50:41,666 --> 00:50:43,918
You know if your kids came
to you and were just like,

1331
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,086
"I want to be..."

1332
00:50:45,128 --> 00:50:46,379
-That's why that
big-family shit,

1333
00:50:46,421 --> 00:50:47,630
that's not what
people think it is.

1334
00:50:47,672 --> 00:50:49,424
You get some kids early
that pop off

1335
00:50:49,466 --> 00:50:51,092
and do what they're supposed to.

1336
00:50:51,134 --> 00:50:54,262
You young, you come out as the
rebel and you're more creative.

1337
00:50:54,304 --> 00:50:56,389
"Get your stupid ass upstairs
and read a book."

1338
00:50:56,431 --> 00:50:58,641
Yeah, that's exactly
what it becomes.

1339
00:50:58,683 --> 00:51:02,228
-But we're all good now, like,
and we're all, you know...

1340
00:51:02,270 --> 00:51:03,605
-What does your mom and dad do?

1341
00:51:03,646 --> 00:51:05,857
-My mom is a teacher.
My dad is a doctor.

1342
00:51:05,899 --> 00:51:07,275
-Wow.
I love it.

1343
00:51:07,317 --> 00:51:08,818
-Yeah.
-I love the foundation.

1344
00:51:08,860 --> 00:51:12,113
It was like a solid foundation,
solid home growing up.

1345
00:51:12,155 --> 00:51:14,783
-Mm-hmm.
Yeah, he was...

1346
00:51:14,824 --> 00:51:18,661
he was from Senegal and built
a practice in Inglewood.

1347
00:51:18,703 --> 00:51:23,291
I only realized, like,
the parallels between us, like,

1348
00:51:23,333 --> 00:51:27,545
and how me watching him
from a distance,

1349
00:51:27,587 --> 00:51:30,757
like, build this practice,
this clinic in Inglewood

1350
00:51:30,799 --> 00:51:32,592
and have, you know,
the respect of the neighborhood,

1351
00:51:32,634 --> 00:51:34,344
'cause when I was growing up
and I was going to school,

1352
00:51:34,386 --> 00:51:36,012
people would be like,
"Oh, your dad is my doctor."

1353
00:51:36,054 --> 00:51:39,099
They'd see my last name and
they'd be like, "Oh, Dr. Diop."

1354
00:51:39,140 --> 00:51:40,308
Actually, it's "jope."

1355
00:51:40,350 --> 00:51:41,810
"Oh, Dr. Diop,
that's my doctor."

1356
00:51:41,851 --> 00:51:43,937
And I'd be like -- You know,
I'd feel proud of that.

1357
00:51:43,978 --> 00:51:46,147
-You knew everybody's business.

1358
00:51:46,189 --> 00:51:48,566
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

1359
00:51:48,608 --> 00:51:51,236
"I know what you got, Stan.
Mm-hmm.

1360
00:51:51,277 --> 00:51:53,321
You burning, ain't you?

1361
00:51:53,363 --> 00:51:55,115
Dad told me."

1362
00:51:55,156 --> 00:51:56,408
"Shut up, Issa!"

1363
00:51:56,449 --> 00:51:58,326
"I just wanted
to let you know I know.

1364
00:51:58,368 --> 00:52:00,328
Get your dirty dick ass
up out of here.

1365
00:52:00,370 --> 00:52:01,579
I know exactly what..."

1366
00:52:01,621 --> 00:52:03,748
-First of all,
he's a pediatrician.

1367
00:52:03,790 --> 00:52:05,583
So...

1368
00:52:05,625 --> 00:52:10,505
-Oh, I chose wrong.
[ Both laugh ]

1369
00:52:10,547 --> 00:52:13,258
-So, no, I didn't know
about the kids' pee-pees.

1370
00:52:13,299 --> 00:52:14,592
-Got it, got it, got it.

1371
00:52:14,634 --> 00:52:17,137
-And then she was
a French teacher at, like,

1372
00:52:17,178 --> 00:52:21,808
you know,
some hood high schools.

1373
00:52:21,850 --> 00:52:25,020
-You know, Issa,
talking to people is one thing.

1374
00:52:25,061 --> 00:52:27,689
Respecting them is
completely another, right?

1375
00:52:27,731 --> 00:52:30,275
Like, it's a much bigger deal

1376
00:52:30,316 --> 00:52:32,694
when you have
a high level of respect.

1377
00:52:32,736 --> 00:52:36,239
Not only do I respect you,
I love your hustle.

1378
00:52:36,281 --> 00:52:38,742
I love that you're not done.

1379
00:52:38,783 --> 00:52:40,994
Coming on this show, giving me
an opportunity to talk to you,

1380
00:52:41,036 --> 00:52:43,747
that's one thing, but giving me
more of an opportunity

1381
00:52:43,788 --> 00:52:47,375
to respect you more than I did,
that's another, and I really do.

1382
00:52:47,417 --> 00:52:51,713
I love the fact
that I now have this,

1383
00:52:51,755 --> 00:52:53,965
because now you got to talk to
me differently when I call you.

1384
00:52:54,007 --> 00:52:55,508
-[ Laughs ]

1385
00:52:55,550 --> 00:52:57,218
-You can't think
I'm full of shit,

1386
00:52:57,260 --> 00:52:58,762
and you got to get out your head

1387
00:52:58,803 --> 00:53:01,473
when it comes to what we can do
and how we can do it.

1388
00:53:01,514 --> 00:53:03,683
And if we don't
do something together,

1389
00:53:03,725 --> 00:53:06,353
then we've done
ourselves a disservice.

1390
00:53:06,394 --> 00:53:07,604
-Facts.
-Can we agree on that?

1391
00:53:07,645 --> 00:53:10,023
-Yes.
-Whatever that thing is,

1392
00:53:10,065 --> 00:53:11,608
there's no reason why my world

1393
00:53:11,649 --> 00:53:14,903
and your world can't collide
in some way, shape, or form.

1394
00:53:14,944 --> 00:53:16,905
You're doing too much,
and so am I.

1395
00:53:16,946 --> 00:53:18,698
I don't want to watch you do it
by yourself.

1396
00:53:18,740 --> 00:53:20,992
Don't fucking feel
like you're gonna bother me,

1397
00:53:21,034 --> 00:53:22,410
because you're not.

1398
00:53:22,452 --> 00:53:24,162
-You guys heard it live.

1399
00:53:24,204 --> 00:53:25,830
I want to --
-This is not live.

1400
00:53:25,872 --> 00:53:27,248
-I want everybody to hold him --
-Okay.

1401
00:53:27,290 --> 00:53:28,583
-No, it's live.
-It's not live.

1402
00:53:28,625 --> 00:53:30,835
-Right now, it's 3:52.
-Don't do that.

1403
00:53:30,877 --> 00:53:33,546
You just messed up the
opportunity to go live, okay?

1404
00:53:33,588 --> 00:53:35,965
You just messed it up.
Issa, it's not live.

1405
00:53:36,007 --> 00:53:37,384
-It's 3:52 right now.

1406
00:53:37,425 --> 00:53:38,593
And that's an accurate time

1407
00:53:38,635 --> 00:53:40,136
because this is coming
to an end.

1408
00:53:40,178 --> 00:53:42,681
-Okay.
-So hold him accountable.

1409
00:53:42,722 --> 00:53:45,225
-Okay.
You get what I'm saying.

1410
00:53:45,266 --> 00:53:48,478
Don't fucking do us
a disservice.

1411
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:49,979
Let's figure it out.
-Okay.

1412
00:53:50,021 --> 00:53:51,773
-Congrats on all your success.
Cheers to you.

1413
00:53:51,815 --> 00:53:54,234
-Thank you so much.
Hustle, man. Appreciate you.

1414
00:53:54,275 --> 00:53:55,735
-I appreciate you.

1415
00:53:55,777 --> 00:53:57,529
This is "Hart to Heart."
It doesn't get better than that.

1416
00:53:57,570 --> 00:53:59,239
The conversations
are conversations

1417
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,949
that should be had.
Why?

1418
00:54:00,990 --> 00:54:02,742
Well, because nobody else
is having them.

1419
00:54:02,784 --> 00:54:04,703
Why?
Well, because nobody else can.

1420
00:54:04,744 --> 00:54:08,456
'Cause they don't
have this host.

1421
00:54:08,498 --> 00:54:11,835
My name is Kevin Hart,
and this is Issa Rae.

1422
00:54:13,545 --> 00:54:15,922
Come on, guys.
Give it to her how we always do.

1423
00:54:15,964 --> 00:54:17,590
That's right.
-Thank you so much.

1424
00:54:17,632 --> 00:54:19,217
[ Applause ]

1425
00:54:19,259 --> 00:54:27,892
**

1426
00:54:27,934 --> 00:54:36,568
**