1 00:00:06,756 --> 00:00:07,882 -* Go * 2 00:00:07,924 --> 00:00:11,845 ** 3 00:00:11,886 --> 00:00:13,013 -What up, champ? -Nothing. 4 00:00:13,054 --> 00:00:14,389 I just wanted to come say hi. 5 00:00:14,431 --> 00:00:15,473 -I appreciate that, 'cause I was like, 6 00:00:15,515 --> 00:00:17,058 "Where the fuck is Kevin? 7 00:00:17,100 --> 00:00:18,518 He hasn't come said hi to me and shit." 8 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,478 -Listen. It's 11:30. I get here at 11:29. 9 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,355 It takes me two minutes to put these clothes on. 10 00:00:22,397 --> 00:00:24,357 -Dude, I'm very happy. I love the show, man. 11 00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:26,693 I'm happy to do it. I'm excited. -It's the easiest shit ever. 12 00:00:26,735 --> 00:00:29,070 Ladies and gentlemen, my guest today has done it. 13 00:00:29,112 --> 00:00:30,739 And when I say done it, I really do mean it. 14 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:33,450 Guys, he's an actor, producer, director, writer, 15 00:00:33,491 --> 00:00:35,452 and he's won a ton of hardware for all those jobs. 16 00:00:35,493 --> 00:00:37,871 I'm talking about multiple Oscars, Golden Globes, 17 00:00:37,912 --> 00:00:40,040 too many more to mention, so I'm not going to do it. 18 00:00:40,081 --> 00:00:41,458 We'll talk about it here. 19 00:00:41,499 --> 00:00:42,792 If you do not know who I'm talking about, 20 00:00:42,834 --> 00:00:44,210 well, you should. 21 00:00:44,252 --> 00:00:45,420 Ladies and gentlemen, it's Ben Affleck. 22 00:00:45,462 --> 00:00:46,838 Come on out here, Ben. -My man. 23 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,631 -How are you, sir? -I'm good. I'm good. 24 00:00:48,673 --> 00:00:50,925 Thanks for having me. -Thank you. 25 00:00:50,967 --> 00:00:53,678 You know, Ben, that's probably one of the first live applauses 26 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,388 that we've had on this set. -Is that right? 27 00:00:55,430 --> 00:00:57,057 -Yeah. We've been doing the show for a long time. 28 00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:59,517 -There's no "applause" sign. -Well, they never show up. 29 00:00:59,559 --> 00:01:01,770 They never show up, but there's certain guests 30 00:01:01,811 --> 00:01:03,438 that they feel like they should show up for. 31 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,106 -Is that right? -You are one of those guests. 32 00:01:05,148 --> 00:01:06,566 -Wow. Alright. I appreciate it. 33 00:01:06,608 --> 00:01:07,901 -I appreciate you coming. -Thank you. 34 00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:09,402 -I appreciate you coming. 35 00:01:09,444 --> 00:01:11,071 DLynn, this is my somm who takes care of me. 36 00:01:11,112 --> 00:01:13,531 Come on out, D, and just tell me what I'm drinking today, please. 37 00:01:13,573 --> 00:01:15,241 -Yes, indeed, Mr. Hart. -Yes. How you doing, man? 38 00:01:15,283 --> 00:01:16,743 -Mr. Affleck. -Yes. 39 00:01:16,785 --> 00:01:18,328 -Do have a Diet Coke for you. -Thank you. 40 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:19,746 It's a good vintage. -I'mma top you off 41 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:21,247 with some water, as well. -Thank you. 42 00:01:21,289 --> 00:01:22,749 South of France, Côtes de Provence, 43 00:01:22,791 --> 00:01:25,085 about 30 kilometers west of Saint-Tropez. 44 00:01:25,126 --> 00:01:26,753 -Mm-hmm. -A captivating blend 45 00:01:26,795 --> 00:01:29,839 of Syrah, Grenache, and Mourvèdre. 46 00:01:29,881 --> 00:01:31,549 -Mm-hmm. -2021. 47 00:01:31,591 --> 00:01:34,344 [ Speaks French ] -Ah. [ Speaks French ] 48 00:01:34,386 --> 00:01:36,262 He said [speaks French] 49 00:01:36,304 --> 00:01:38,431 A lot of people don't know I speak French. 50 00:01:38,473 --> 00:01:40,350 -Funny. Yeah. They don't get that impression. 51 00:01:40,392 --> 00:01:43,353 -Yeah. [ Speaking French ] 52 00:01:43,395 --> 00:01:45,146 Ah. Yes. Yes. 53 00:01:45,188 --> 00:01:47,565 Give him some water. -Thank you for the pour. 54 00:01:47,607 --> 00:01:49,442 DLynn, want to tell you I appreciate you, sir. 55 00:01:49,484 --> 00:01:50,777 -I appreciate you. -Thank you, man. 56 00:01:50,819 --> 00:01:51,986 -Mr. Affleck, Mr. Hart. -Thank you, sir. 57 00:01:52,028 --> 00:01:53,655 -Enjoy. -Thank you. 58 00:01:53,697 --> 00:01:56,574 Ben, for you, what was the decision 59 00:01:56,616 --> 00:01:58,284 in the early days of starting? 60 00:01:58,326 --> 00:02:00,286 Like, was it -- was it family assisted? 61 00:02:00,328 --> 00:02:01,663 Was it -- Was it you? 62 00:02:01,705 --> 00:02:03,456 How did you come to that decision early on? 63 00:02:03,498 --> 00:02:05,667 -I was -- I grew up in Boston, 64 00:02:05,709 --> 00:02:09,879 and my mother's friend was, like, an assistant, 65 00:02:09,921 --> 00:02:12,841 like, sort of local casting director on, like, 66 00:02:12,882 --> 00:02:15,301 if a movie would come into town or a show 67 00:02:15,343 --> 00:02:17,137 and they needed extras or whatever, 68 00:02:17,178 --> 00:02:19,723 you know, she would help pull them in. 69 00:02:19,764 --> 00:02:23,476 And so when I was a little kid, like 5 or 6, 70 00:02:23,518 --> 00:02:25,645 I randomly ended up not just as an extra, 71 00:02:25,687 --> 00:02:28,314 but, like, having a little -- I think I had a line or two. 72 00:02:28,356 --> 00:02:30,316 I was 7 years old on this, 73 00:02:30,358 --> 00:02:32,068 like, kind of independent movie that shot there. 74 00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:35,405 I think it was called "Billy in the Lowlands," 1979. 75 00:02:35,447 --> 00:02:37,157 And I was like, you know, 76 00:02:37,198 --> 00:02:38,783 I didn't even know really what it was. 77 00:02:38,825 --> 00:02:40,577 But evidently, and I don't remember this, 78 00:02:40,618 --> 00:02:42,620 the casting director was like, "Oh, he's comfortable," 79 00:02:42,662 --> 00:02:43,997 whatever it is when you're a little kid. 80 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:45,540 It's not really act-- 81 00:02:45,582 --> 00:02:47,334 It's a different thing, which is why sometimes you have, 82 00:02:47,375 --> 00:02:49,544 like, young actors and kind of that, like, Oscar Mayer Wiener 83 00:02:49,586 --> 00:02:51,796 kind of, like, just smile. 84 00:02:51,838 --> 00:02:56,509 When I was 8, I got cast in this really small-time little -- 85 00:02:56,551 --> 00:02:59,137 Like, the local PBS affiliate was called WGBH. 86 00:02:59,179 --> 00:03:02,515 They did "ZOOM," which was like, "0-2-1-3. Welcome to 'ZOOM.'" 87 00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:05,727 That was their one before the, you know, Zoom, like COVID Zoom. 88 00:03:05,769 --> 00:03:08,188 It was this show. And that was their big thing. 89 00:03:08,229 --> 00:03:10,023 They aired "Sesame Street." 90 00:03:10,065 --> 00:03:12,067 And so they wanted to make this show that was, like, 91 00:03:12,108 --> 00:03:14,527 an educational series that would be used in sixth grade 92 00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:15,862 to teach science and math. 93 00:03:15,904 --> 00:03:17,447 It was called "Voyage of the Mimi," 94 00:03:17,489 --> 00:03:19,741 non-union, like, real small thing. 95 00:03:19,783 --> 00:03:21,910 And I went -- I don't even remember the addition. 96 00:03:21,951 --> 00:03:23,119 I ended up getting it. 97 00:03:23,161 --> 00:03:24,704 And then so periodically -- 98 00:03:24,746 --> 00:03:28,208 and it went, like, for a couple of weeks when I was 8, 99 00:03:28,249 --> 00:03:29,959 then a couple of months when I was 10, 100 00:03:30,001 --> 00:03:32,045 and almost a year when I was 13. 101 00:03:32,087 --> 00:03:33,713 I went down to Mexico 102 00:03:33,755 --> 00:03:36,383 and lived down there and shot a season down there. 103 00:03:36,424 --> 00:03:38,718 So I had a chance to be kind of a child actor 104 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,056 but without the fame or the craziness or the parents. 105 00:03:43,098 --> 00:03:44,391 -It's a little under the radar. 106 00:03:44,432 --> 00:03:45,433 -Yeah. It was very under the radar. 107 00:03:45,475 --> 00:03:46,601 My parents didn't want to. 108 00:03:46,643 --> 00:03:49,729 My father was a guy who had -- 109 00:03:49,771 --> 00:03:52,190 you know, wanted to write and direct stuff, 110 00:03:52,232 --> 00:03:54,150 wasn't able to be successful. 111 00:03:54,192 --> 00:03:55,735 Auto mechanic, bartender, 112 00:03:55,777 --> 00:03:58,571 custodian-type work to make money, 113 00:03:58,613 --> 00:04:00,365 and my mother was a teacher, 114 00:04:00,407 --> 00:04:02,951 taught sixth grade and second grade. 115 00:04:02,992 --> 00:04:04,869 And so they were like -- they didn't want me to be an actor. 116 00:04:04,911 --> 00:04:06,621 It was kind of like they were scared of it 117 00:04:06,663 --> 00:04:08,415 'cause the actors they knew were miserable, 118 00:04:08,456 --> 00:04:09,749 couldn't get work. 119 00:04:09,791 --> 00:04:11,251 It was hard, you know, all that stuff. 120 00:04:11,292 --> 00:04:12,794 So I was kind of discouraged from it, 121 00:04:12,836 --> 00:04:14,546 but it was like, "You can go do this sort of for fun 122 00:04:14,587 --> 00:04:16,464 in this limited way." 123 00:04:16,506 --> 00:04:18,425 I felt like I just liked it. 124 00:04:18,466 --> 00:04:19,801 I liked the responsibility of it. 125 00:04:19,843 --> 00:04:21,928 I liked -- I don't know that I understood 126 00:04:21,970 --> 00:04:24,305 or was drawn to, like, what the sort of art of it was, 127 00:04:24,347 --> 00:04:25,807 but I know I liked doing it. 128 00:04:25,849 --> 00:04:27,517 Maybe I liked performing. I could do voices. 129 00:04:27,559 --> 00:04:29,477 My father listened to Richard Pryor records 130 00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:31,062 all the time, and so that's -- 131 00:04:31,104 --> 00:04:32,647 When I was in the second grade, 132 00:04:32,689 --> 00:04:36,317 I could do Pryor, like, verbatim off of a bunch of albums 133 00:04:36,359 --> 00:04:39,696 that, like, you can't even say the name of now, you know, 134 00:04:39,738 --> 00:04:41,823 and he used to laugh and drunk with his friends 135 00:04:41,865 --> 00:04:43,616 and get stoned and have me do Pryor. 136 00:04:43,658 --> 00:04:45,243 -"Ben, come out here and do the thing. 137 00:04:45,285 --> 00:04:46,369 Ben do the Pryor thing." 138 00:04:46,411 --> 00:04:47,787 -He came into my second grade, 139 00:04:47,829 --> 00:04:49,456 like, show-and-tell brought his wrenches in. 140 00:04:49,497 --> 00:04:50,999 "What does your dad do?" And my dad came in. 141 00:04:51,041 --> 00:04:53,126 So I thought, "Oh, I'll go into the Pryor thing." 142 00:04:53,168 --> 00:04:54,627 I started doing it. 143 00:04:54,669 --> 00:04:56,046 And he was just like, "Hey!" like, yelled. 144 00:04:56,087 --> 00:04:58,173 -"Shut it down, Ben. Shut it down, Ben." 145 00:04:58,214 --> 00:05:00,925 -But I remember that I liked that performance vibe. 146 00:05:00,967 --> 00:05:03,720 I liked being funny. I could imitate Pryor. 147 00:05:03,762 --> 00:05:07,307 I mean, as well, you know, as some second-grade white kid. 148 00:05:07,349 --> 00:05:09,309 -There was a performance attached to it. 149 00:05:09,351 --> 00:05:10,518 -Performance that I really liked. 150 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,270 And so then I kind of -- 151 00:05:12,312 --> 00:05:14,439 I was like, "I like acting. I want to do this." 152 00:05:14,481 --> 00:05:15,982 And I kept -- And I had a great -- 153 00:05:16,024 --> 00:05:18,610 The truth is, the difference that was made for me 154 00:05:18,651 --> 00:05:20,278 and my brother and Matt 155 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,655 and a lot of people that have gone on to have careers, 156 00:05:22,697 --> 00:05:24,449 we had a great teacher. 157 00:05:24,491 --> 00:05:26,284 We had a high school drama teacher 158 00:05:26,326 --> 00:05:28,078 who was a fucking genius. 159 00:05:28,119 --> 00:05:32,165 And what he was a genius at was, like, inspiring young people. 160 00:05:32,207 --> 00:05:34,334 -Wow. -And he really -- 161 00:05:34,376 --> 00:05:38,713 Probably the most important moment in my professional life 162 00:05:38,755 --> 00:05:40,340 was definitely, like, 163 00:05:40,382 --> 00:05:42,592 this was somebody that I looked up to in a way that -- 164 00:05:42,634 --> 00:05:44,761 You know, that's why I believe, like, in mentorship, 165 00:05:44,803 --> 00:05:47,013 especially for young men like, the way they -- 166 00:05:47,055 --> 00:05:49,891 We need that, like, "Show me how to be a man." 167 00:05:49,933 --> 00:05:53,186 -Yeah, you don't realize you need it until you start to see 168 00:05:53,228 --> 00:05:56,272 that you either don't have it or didn't have it. 169 00:05:56,314 --> 00:05:58,149 -Exactly. -Is this somebody 170 00:05:58,191 --> 00:05:59,526 that you stayed in touch with? 171 00:05:59,567 --> 00:06:01,528 -Yeah, I have. His name's Gerry Speca. 172 00:06:01,569 --> 00:06:03,321 He was just a great teacher. 173 00:06:03,363 --> 00:06:04,739 And I went to New York. 174 00:06:04,781 --> 00:06:06,700 I started going to New York to audition. 175 00:06:06,741 --> 00:06:08,451 This, of course, back in the days when, like, 176 00:06:08,493 --> 00:06:10,370 my mom was like, "Okay. 177 00:06:10,412 --> 00:06:11,788 You're 15. Go to New York City." 178 00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:13,456 -I was gonna say, like, what age was this? 179 00:06:13,498 --> 00:06:15,333 -Like, we'd just leave. -Wow. 180 00:06:15,375 --> 00:06:17,002 -I know. It's crazy. 181 00:06:17,043 --> 00:06:19,671 Now I think, like, wanted to go to New York by myself? 182 00:06:19,713 --> 00:06:21,172 I walked home a couple miles from school 183 00:06:21,214 --> 00:06:22,549 when I was a little kid. 184 00:06:22,590 --> 00:06:23,800 It was a different time. 185 00:06:23,842 --> 00:06:25,427 -Your biggest success early on, 186 00:06:25,468 --> 00:06:27,721 matched with the child-acting experience, 187 00:06:27,762 --> 00:06:31,558 where it came from, you know, the ability to write, 188 00:06:31,599 --> 00:06:33,268 the ability to go and put the pen to the pad. 189 00:06:33,309 --> 00:06:36,813 Before you get to that screenwriting, like, time 190 00:06:36,855 --> 00:06:38,481 where you and Matt did an amazing job 191 00:06:38,523 --> 00:06:40,900 on "Good Will Hunting" the story -- 192 00:06:40,942 --> 00:06:42,861 before you get there, were you writing? 193 00:06:42,902 --> 00:06:44,571 -I didn't really think of it as, like, "Well, I'm a writer. 194 00:06:44,612 --> 00:06:45,905 I'm a this." 195 00:06:45,947 --> 00:06:47,866 Because it was, like, improvisation, 196 00:06:47,907 --> 00:06:50,201 improv a scene, write it down, or he would send us exercises 197 00:06:50,243 --> 00:06:52,370 where we'd go listen to people talking at Starbucks, 198 00:06:52,412 --> 00:06:54,039 overhear, write down what they say 199 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,915 or tape record it, then look at it. 200 00:06:55,957 --> 00:06:58,918 What does real speech look like? Like, exercises like that. 201 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,046 And so we thought of it, like, 202 00:07:01,087 --> 00:07:02,922 not as, well, you know, a separate thing. 203 00:07:02,964 --> 00:07:04,591 I never thought of myself, "Well, I'm going to write 204 00:07:04,632 --> 00:07:06,885 for its own sake. and then say goodbye." 205 00:07:06,926 --> 00:07:08,636 -Okay. -But I understood it 206 00:07:08,678 --> 00:07:10,096 as a necessary component 207 00:07:10,138 --> 00:07:12,932 so that by the time we were out in L.A. -- 208 00:07:12,974 --> 00:07:15,894 I went out to L.A. when I was -- 1990. 209 00:07:15,935 --> 00:07:18,104 -God damn, man. -And I was a kid. 210 00:07:18,146 --> 00:07:20,774 You know, I lived in Echo Park, you know? 211 00:07:20,815 --> 00:07:22,942 And it was just like, "Okay, how do I do this?" 212 00:07:22,984 --> 00:07:25,612 -Was it random, like, impromptu, 213 00:07:25,653 --> 00:07:27,030 like, "This is where I want to be"? 214 00:07:27,072 --> 00:07:28,782 -I was like -- I knew I wanted to do it. 215 00:07:28,823 --> 00:07:30,700 And they wanted me to go college and that kind of thing. 216 00:07:30,742 --> 00:07:32,994 And I had been so inspired by the experience 217 00:07:33,036 --> 00:07:34,371 that I had mostly in high school, 218 00:07:34,412 --> 00:07:35,663 even though I went to New York. 219 00:07:35,705 --> 00:07:37,165 I got, like, an after-school special 220 00:07:37,207 --> 00:07:39,209 and a TV movie of the week. 221 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:41,878 I thought it was real big-time. -You're doing base hits. 222 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,421 -You know, I was the kid or whatever, 223 00:07:43,463 --> 00:07:45,215 but it was experience being on a set. 224 00:07:45,256 --> 00:07:46,758 And I was like, "Okay, I want to do this," 225 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,176 and I had a little agent, 226 00:07:48,218 --> 00:07:50,220 and then I hooked up Matt with my agent. 227 00:07:50,261 --> 00:07:51,971 You know, went up to New York, 228 00:07:52,013 --> 00:07:54,641 and then we were like -- you know, he was like -- 229 00:07:54,683 --> 00:07:55,767 We were doing it together, which made it 230 00:07:55,809 --> 00:07:57,769 a lot more comfortable and safe. 231 00:07:57,811 --> 00:07:59,396 -When you start out at the bottom 232 00:07:59,437 --> 00:08:02,899 and you are trying your best to get to the top, 233 00:08:02,941 --> 00:08:04,859 you've already been at the bottom. 234 00:08:04,901 --> 00:08:07,153 So the things that look like failure -- 235 00:08:07,195 --> 00:08:09,239 -Everything's better. -Yeah. It's all a win. 236 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,116 So when you're talking, "Oh, yeah, I got to go to New York, 237 00:08:11,157 --> 00:08:13,284 and I got this part and I got this," you're winning. 238 00:08:13,326 --> 00:08:14,869 -That was huge. -You're winning. 239 00:08:14,911 --> 00:08:17,664 -I was winning, like, and I thought, I've done some-- 240 00:08:17,706 --> 00:08:19,624 Other kids, and they were like, "Damn. 241 00:08:19,666 --> 00:08:21,334 Like, that's crazy." -Yeah. 242 00:08:21,376 --> 00:08:25,422 -You know, I never saw anybody in my life who had been -- 243 00:08:25,463 --> 00:08:27,924 I remember one time I saw, in downtown Boston, 244 00:08:27,966 --> 00:08:29,843 Christopher Lloyd walking down the street. 245 00:08:29,884 --> 00:08:31,594 And I followed him. 246 00:08:31,636 --> 00:08:33,847 You know, I was that dude who followed for like two blocks, 247 00:08:33,888 --> 00:08:36,349 walking after him, just 'cause I was like, 248 00:08:36,391 --> 00:08:37,684 "That's the 'Back to the Future" motherfucker." 249 00:08:37,726 --> 00:08:39,227 -Enamored by it, yeah. 250 00:08:39,269 --> 00:08:42,105 -And I just was, like, so starstruck, 251 00:08:42,147 --> 00:08:45,191 and I couldn't believe it that a guy from -- 252 00:08:45,233 --> 00:08:47,402 You know, I had just seen "Back to the Future." 253 00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:50,363 And there he was. I was 14 or something, 15. 254 00:08:50,405 --> 00:08:52,282 And that was how rare. 255 00:08:52,323 --> 00:08:54,451 That wasn't for, like -- Nobody could do this. 256 00:08:54,492 --> 00:08:56,953 So the idea of just -- or even going to California. 257 00:08:56,995 --> 00:08:58,830 Like, what do you mean? You're gonna go to California. 258 00:08:58,872 --> 00:09:00,623 Then what? Like, work and live somewhere. 259 00:09:00,665 --> 00:09:02,042 And a lot of people did that 260 00:09:02,083 --> 00:09:03,877 and, you know, didn't end well, obviously. 261 00:09:03,918 --> 00:09:05,462 So it was like, I'm gonna go out and do that. 262 00:09:05,503 --> 00:09:07,213 So I come out. I'm in L.A. 263 00:09:07,255 --> 00:09:09,507 I got rejected for every fucking thing you possibly think. 264 00:09:09,549 --> 00:09:12,218 "Beverly Hills 90210," the worst shit in the world, 265 00:09:12,260 --> 00:09:13,762 "Mickey Mouse Club," no. 266 00:09:13,803 --> 00:09:15,722 And the few parts I did get out in L.A., 267 00:09:15,764 --> 00:09:17,098 you know, you're trying to get your sides 268 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:18,808 out of the fax machine and come in. 269 00:09:18,850 --> 00:09:20,894 It's just humiliating. But you're used to it. 270 00:09:20,935 --> 00:09:22,604 You're like, "All I ever get is no. 271 00:09:22,645 --> 00:09:24,105 Anything's better than that." 272 00:09:24,147 --> 00:09:27,025 My father, though, as a model, was like -- 273 00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:29,903 My thing was -- My whole goal was, 274 00:09:29,944 --> 00:09:32,655 I want to be able to say I make a living as an actor. 275 00:09:32,697 --> 00:09:35,408 I'm not an actor unless that's my job, you know. 276 00:09:35,450 --> 00:09:38,328 And I think it was that thing of the father. 277 00:09:38,370 --> 00:09:41,414 It was like I didn't view him as having failed 278 00:09:41,456 --> 00:09:43,416 because I didn't know what success was, 279 00:09:43,458 --> 00:09:46,086 but I knew he didn't want to make his living pushing a broom. 280 00:09:46,127 --> 00:09:47,921 -Yeah. -You know what I mean? 281 00:09:47,962 --> 00:09:49,547 -That's not his first choice. -And mopping the floors 282 00:09:49,589 --> 00:09:53,093 and serving, you know, beer in this bar or whatever. 283 00:09:53,134 --> 00:09:56,221 He wanted to be, you know, writing plays and doing stuff. 284 00:09:56,262 --> 00:10:00,767 And so I was like, I want to be able to say I'm an actor. 285 00:10:00,809 --> 00:10:03,436 That means I make my living that way. 286 00:10:03,478 --> 00:10:04,854 That was my goal. 287 00:10:04,896 --> 00:10:05,939 I know people that wanted to be famous. 288 00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:07,273 And I don't begrudge them. 289 00:10:07,315 --> 00:10:08,983 Like, great. You want to be famous. 290 00:10:09,025 --> 00:10:10,318 You want to be a performer. That's part of it. 291 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:11,945 For me, it really wasn't the ambition. 292 00:10:11,986 --> 00:10:14,030 It was just the dignity to be able to say, 293 00:10:14,072 --> 00:10:16,533 I do this for a living, and it makes it legitimate. 294 00:10:16,574 --> 00:10:18,243 -Okay, now, wait. 295 00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:20,495 Before I, like, ask my next question, 'cause I have to, 296 00:10:20,537 --> 00:10:22,956 I want to take a break, because the conversation's so good. 297 00:10:22,997 --> 00:10:25,291 Let's pay the bills now. Guys, we're gonna take a break. 298 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:28,253 We'll be back with more "Hart to Heart" after this. 299 00:10:28,294 --> 00:10:31,506 -I'm Ben Affleck, and I'm in the Arctic test chamber 300 00:10:31,548 --> 00:10:35,135 for the United States Army Research Institute 301 00:10:35,176 --> 00:10:38,596 of Environmental Medicine in Natick, Massachusetts. 302 00:10:38,638 --> 00:10:43,309 ** 303 00:10:47,731 --> 00:10:52,360 ** 304 00:10:52,402 --> 00:10:53,903 -Okay, we're back. 305 00:10:53,945 --> 00:10:55,989 This is "Hart to Heart," and I'm sitting with Ben Affleck. 306 00:10:56,031 --> 00:10:57,991 And, guys, I want to pick up where we left off. 307 00:10:58,033 --> 00:11:00,827 Uh, Ben, how was your dad's response, 308 00:11:00,869 --> 00:11:03,580 though, to your decision and your jumps? 309 00:11:03,621 --> 00:11:06,666 -In those years that are really so pivotal, right, 310 00:11:06,708 --> 00:11:08,335 like, my parents broke up 311 00:11:08,376 --> 00:11:11,880 and my mother threw my father out when I was 11 312 00:11:11,921 --> 00:11:13,673 because he was drinking too much 313 00:11:13,715 --> 00:11:17,177 and he was, you know, old-fashioned alcoholic, drunk. 314 00:11:17,218 --> 00:11:18,636 -I was 8. -Ended up on the streets. 315 00:11:18,678 --> 00:11:21,348 -I was 8 when my mom threw my dad out. 8. 316 00:11:21,389 --> 00:11:23,391 -So you know how it is. You know what I mean? 317 00:11:23,433 --> 00:11:25,226 And at the time, I was like, "Good." 318 00:11:25,268 --> 00:11:26,561 Because the motherfucker's scary 319 00:11:26,603 --> 00:11:28,313 and, you know, irrational and shit, 320 00:11:28,355 --> 00:11:29,939 and, like, I don't know what -- you know, 321 00:11:29,981 --> 00:11:31,649 and fighting and smashing -- 322 00:11:31,691 --> 00:11:33,693 You know, it was not a pleasant environment. 323 00:11:33,735 --> 00:11:35,111 -Not a good environment. 324 00:11:35,153 --> 00:11:36,780 -And so then I -- 325 00:11:36,821 --> 00:11:39,866 And as that tends to happen, you know, he had -- 326 00:11:39,908 --> 00:11:42,535 There's a low bottom. He had to go a long, long way. 327 00:11:42,577 --> 00:11:45,747 So I was seeing him less and less. 328 00:11:45,789 --> 00:11:48,667 Like, I had the classic stories where, like, you know, 329 00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:51,544 my seventh grade went to their little field trip 330 00:11:51,586 --> 00:11:53,088 to the courthouse, 331 00:11:53,129 --> 00:11:54,714 and my father was getting arraigned on that day. 332 00:11:54,756 --> 00:11:57,384 You know what I mean? I'm like -- I was that kid. 333 00:11:57,425 --> 00:11:59,010 You know, they're like, "What's your father's name?" 334 00:11:59,052 --> 00:12:00,387 The older kids came back. 335 00:12:00,428 --> 00:12:01,846 I had seventh graders talking to me. 336 00:12:01,888 --> 00:12:03,139 I was sixth grade. I was all happy. 337 00:12:03,181 --> 00:12:04,557 I was like, "My father's name Tim." 338 00:12:04,599 --> 00:12:06,226 They were like, "We just saw him in jail." 339 00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:08,895 -Yeah. -You know, it was -- 340 00:12:08,937 --> 00:12:10,980 I was like, "Oh." -"Oh, okay." 341 00:12:11,022 --> 00:12:12,440 -So I had this relationship that was, like, 342 00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:14,693 I associated those disappointments. 343 00:12:14,734 --> 00:12:16,236 It really didn't have to do with that 344 00:12:16,277 --> 00:12:17,987 or that pain of not know-- 345 00:12:18,029 --> 00:12:21,282 You know, parent becomes not able to take care of themself, 346 00:12:21,324 --> 00:12:22,867 it's very difficult, and you don't know 347 00:12:22,909 --> 00:12:25,620 what's your responsibility or how to manage that. 348 00:12:25,662 --> 00:12:28,248 So I didn't -- I needed somebody else to say, 349 00:12:28,289 --> 00:12:29,874 "Hey, I believe in you." 350 00:12:29,916 --> 00:12:31,668 And I think that was very meaningful. 351 00:12:31,710 --> 00:12:34,212 My father actually, you know, got sober, 352 00:12:34,254 --> 00:12:36,172 got his life together, and he's still sober now. 353 00:12:36,214 --> 00:12:38,174 He's doing great, and that's great. 354 00:12:38,216 --> 00:12:41,011 But those years, that's just what happened. 355 00:12:41,052 --> 00:12:43,221 -You just said something that was so dope where you're like, 356 00:12:43,263 --> 00:12:45,306 "Look, I had Matt with me. 357 00:12:45,348 --> 00:12:47,934 You know, we came out, and we were able to use 358 00:12:47,976 --> 00:12:49,519 one another, the energy of one another." 359 00:12:49,561 --> 00:12:52,313 -Having a friend who was with me from where I was from, 360 00:12:52,355 --> 00:12:54,816 and my brother was with me and some other friends 361 00:12:54,858 --> 00:12:57,277 that kind of came out, were like, "Oh, you went out there. 362 00:12:57,318 --> 00:12:59,446 What's it like? You know, maybe we'll try." 363 00:12:59,487 --> 00:13:01,364 'Cause there's a lot of, like, that tension between, 364 00:13:01,406 --> 00:13:03,241 do I stay here and kind of stay in Boston 365 00:13:03,283 --> 00:13:04,826 and do this thing, or do I kind of get out of here? 366 00:13:04,868 --> 00:13:06,578 -You make the jump. -Whatever that means. Yeah. 367 00:13:06,619 --> 00:13:09,789 -Am I going to be a story of one that got out? 368 00:13:09,831 --> 00:13:11,416 -Right. -That tried? 369 00:13:11,458 --> 00:13:13,710 Or am I going to be the story of the conversation 370 00:13:13,752 --> 00:13:16,212 of what I want to do but I never actually did it? 371 00:13:16,254 --> 00:13:18,006 And then I'll get to an age where I regret the fact 372 00:13:18,048 --> 00:13:19,424 that I never made the jump. 373 00:13:19,466 --> 00:13:21,176 I'm gonna make the fucking jump. 374 00:13:21,217 --> 00:13:24,012 I moved out to L.A. I think, you know, I was -- 375 00:13:24,054 --> 00:13:26,723 I want to say 21. 376 00:13:26,765 --> 00:13:28,767 Came out. I just -- 377 00:13:28,808 --> 00:13:33,355 I just got, like, a pilot check that I did. 378 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:35,148 Check may have been 25 grand. 379 00:13:35,190 --> 00:13:37,525 -I remember a check for $25,000. 380 00:13:37,567 --> 00:13:39,235 -25. You couldn't tell me shit. -I was like, "Shit." 381 00:13:39,277 --> 00:13:41,946 -This is it. -"I'm done. I made it." 382 00:13:41,988 --> 00:13:43,990 -I'm making a lot of money now. 383 00:13:44,032 --> 00:13:46,034 -For real. -I think I'm a millionaire. 384 00:13:46,076 --> 00:13:49,954 -I'm like, $5,000 a week I made for five weeks. 385 00:13:49,996 --> 00:13:51,539 -I think I'm a millionaire. 386 00:13:51,581 --> 00:13:53,458 So let me call my family and say, "Y'all set." 387 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:55,460 -"It's gonna be alright, Mama." 388 00:13:55,502 --> 00:13:57,504 -You and Matt then cracked the code of saying, 389 00:13:57,545 --> 00:13:59,381 "Let's develop this thing together." 390 00:13:59,422 --> 00:14:01,508 -That was a time where there were these movies 391 00:14:01,549 --> 00:14:04,594 that came along where it was the first kind of, 392 00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:07,180 like, hey, you might not need to go 393 00:14:07,222 --> 00:14:09,391 through the gatekeeper kind of system. 394 00:14:09,432 --> 00:14:11,935 Like, if you get, you know, Harvey Keitel 395 00:14:11,976 --> 00:14:14,104 to be in your movie or whatever -- this was the myth. 396 00:14:14,145 --> 00:14:15,855 I don't know if it's true or not, 397 00:14:15,897 --> 00:14:17,607 but you can get $1 million, you can make "Reservoir Dogs." 398 00:14:17,649 --> 00:14:20,151 Start seeing that stuff, and I started to have ambitions. 399 00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:21,569 I like photography. I like cameras. 400 00:14:21,611 --> 00:14:23,196 And I was like, "I want to direct." 401 00:14:23,238 --> 00:14:25,198 I directed. Like, I worked my way on -- 402 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,533 -So this was early on. Wow. -Yeah, early. 403 00:14:26,574 --> 00:14:27,992 Like, short films, like, students. 404 00:14:28,034 --> 00:14:29,411 People come out, I'd direct. 405 00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:30,995 I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. 406 00:14:31,037 --> 00:14:33,206 But I just got in there and started filming things, 407 00:14:33,248 --> 00:14:35,792 just a couple of times, but I liked it. 408 00:14:35,834 --> 00:14:37,877 And when me and Matt were talking about, like, you know, 409 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:40,505 we kept on getting these things to audition. 410 00:14:40,547 --> 00:14:42,549 Our thing was like, "Everybody else has a reel." 411 00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:45,385 At that time, it was like a VHS tape with your shit on it 412 00:14:45,427 --> 00:14:47,762 that you can show somebody that's good so they'll hire you, 413 00:14:47,804 --> 00:14:49,556 'cause a lot of times it's like they don't know who you are, 414 00:14:49,597 --> 00:14:51,433 you can't audition, you can't come in, whatever. 415 00:14:51,474 --> 00:14:54,728 So our obsession was like, "Let's write something for us 416 00:14:54,769 --> 00:14:57,105 that we can make as a real low-budget movie." 417 00:14:57,147 --> 00:14:58,565 The goal was like, "But we'll have 418 00:14:58,606 --> 00:14:59,733 some good acting scenes on it." -Your reel. 419 00:14:59,774 --> 00:15:01,234 -It's gonna be our reel. 420 00:15:01,276 --> 00:15:02,318 So we're gonna have this scene for the reel, 421 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,445 that scene for the reel. 422 00:15:03,486 --> 00:15:05,113 That's how we started writing, 423 00:15:05,155 --> 00:15:07,323 from a self-serving, like, "What can I do as an actor? 424 00:15:07,365 --> 00:15:08,742 What can I do performance-wise?" 425 00:15:08,783 --> 00:15:10,368 Okay, the accents where we grew up. 426 00:15:10,410 --> 00:15:11,619 This is different. 427 00:15:11,661 --> 00:15:13,705 We had a different view on things. 428 00:15:13,747 --> 00:15:16,082 You know, and a lot of it was just sitting around drinking, 429 00:15:16,124 --> 00:15:17,751 coming up with shit, telling stories. 430 00:15:17,792 --> 00:15:20,378 What we learned was, like, have a tape recorder going, 431 00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:21,588 play it back, listen to it. 432 00:15:21,629 --> 00:15:23,214 And then we would do it as like, 433 00:15:23,256 --> 00:15:24,758 "What if it was Morgan Freeman playing the part? 434 00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:26,593 What if it was Ben Kingsley playing the part?" 435 00:15:26,634 --> 00:15:28,428 And do the scene that way, doing our Morgan Freeman. 436 00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:31,723 I mean, I hope those tapes are long gone, because -- 437 00:15:31,765 --> 00:15:34,184 -I hope they're not. I hope they're not. 438 00:15:34,225 --> 00:15:37,812 Not to see them and laugh at them, by the way, which I would. 439 00:15:37,854 --> 00:15:40,648 I hope they're not because from what I'm hearing, 440 00:15:40,690 --> 00:15:43,443 you were extremely, like, proactive. 441 00:15:43,485 --> 00:15:45,779 -I just was a fan. I love movies. 442 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:48,073 This was like, we thought about it all day long. 443 00:15:48,114 --> 00:15:49,949 And so it was like, "Let's do something like that." 444 00:15:49,991 --> 00:15:52,410 And I don't know that we -- Again, it's that, like, 445 00:15:52,452 --> 00:15:55,497 kind of reckless hubris of youth. 446 00:15:55,538 --> 00:15:57,207 You know, we started thinking, 447 00:15:57,248 --> 00:15:58,750 "Okay, what if we get it to one person? 448 00:15:58,792 --> 00:16:00,460 So we got to write a part for a movie star. 449 00:16:00,502 --> 00:16:01,920 Now, we got to make it short weeks 450 00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:03,254 so that they come in quick. 451 00:16:03,296 --> 00:16:04,923 They got to have the cool monologues." 452 00:16:04,964 --> 00:16:06,633 Like, literally planned it out that way. 453 00:16:06,675 --> 00:16:09,552 "Like, we got to write the movie all just in houses 454 00:16:09,594 --> 00:16:11,888 so it doesn't cost money and parks, no effects 455 00:16:11,930 --> 00:16:13,515 or anything like that." 456 00:16:13,556 --> 00:16:15,141 And there's, okay, got to be a love interest. 457 00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:16,476 Okay, great." 458 00:16:16,518 --> 00:16:17,769 -But your intelligence is so high. 459 00:16:17,811 --> 00:16:19,479 Like, at this point, 460 00:16:19,521 --> 00:16:22,315 your understanding of simply what a production could be, 461 00:16:22,357 --> 00:16:23,733 the common sense of saying, 462 00:16:23,775 --> 00:16:25,235 "Make it this way so we can afford it, 463 00:16:25,276 --> 00:16:26,861 so these people can come in quick." 464 00:16:26,903 --> 00:16:28,863 This is coming, of course, from the history of acting 465 00:16:28,905 --> 00:16:30,657 that you were able to embed yourself in. 466 00:16:30,699 --> 00:16:32,409 -And also just reading about it, studying about it, 467 00:16:32,450 --> 00:16:34,577 paying attention to it, and, yeah, being on sets. 468 00:16:34,619 --> 00:16:36,663 That's the value, as I tell, like, a lot of actors 469 00:16:36,705 --> 00:16:38,331 who ask me a question, like, yeah. 470 00:16:38,373 --> 00:16:41,584 Like, I did 50 jobs as an extra, at least, right? 471 00:16:41,626 --> 00:16:43,628 I did so much extra work. You know, you're there. 472 00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:45,505 And you have to go eat the wrapped-up shit, 473 00:16:45,547 --> 00:16:47,465 and, like, you know, they treat you like cattle or whatever. 474 00:16:47,507 --> 00:16:49,134 But I was happy to be there. 475 00:16:49,175 --> 00:16:51,136 Before I was in the union, $50. 476 00:16:51,177 --> 00:16:53,471 Come down, $50, and you're gonna be there all day, 477 00:16:53,513 --> 00:16:55,849 and I was like, "Okay, for $50, 478 00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:58,143 I'm going to get to watch and see how they're doing this 479 00:16:58,184 --> 00:16:59,936 and pay attention." -"I'm going to study the craft." 480 00:16:59,978 --> 00:17:02,313 -And that's the way I approached my acting career 481 00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:03,982 throughout to learn how to direct, was like, 482 00:17:04,024 --> 00:17:07,152 the closer I can be to the director, the more I can learn, 483 00:17:07,193 --> 00:17:11,156 the more I'll have the position to ask questions. 484 00:17:11,197 --> 00:17:12,490 And so that was what we did. 485 00:17:12,532 --> 00:17:14,200 By the time we wrote that script, 486 00:17:14,242 --> 00:17:17,078 and it took years to write it and then, you know, rewrite it. 487 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:18,788 -How many years in total? 488 00:17:18,830 --> 00:17:21,541 -Three or four years of writing overall before it got made, 489 00:17:21,583 --> 00:17:24,210 but there was 2 1/2 years of just writing, 490 00:17:24,252 --> 00:17:25,837 you know, passing it back and forth. 491 00:17:25,879 --> 00:17:27,630 The fact that we finished it, it would sit there, 492 00:17:27,672 --> 00:17:29,424 then we'd have an idea, Matt would write me something, 493 00:17:29,466 --> 00:17:32,177 I would write something, we'd get together, we'd do it. 494 00:17:32,218 --> 00:17:34,763 And then we also at the same time, 495 00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:37,932 I started -- Matt started getting work in studio movies, 496 00:17:37,974 --> 00:17:39,893 and I started getting work in, like, independent, 497 00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:40,977 Sundance type movies. 498 00:17:41,019 --> 00:17:42,395 Like, I did "Chasing Amy," 499 00:17:42,437 --> 00:17:43,772 this movie called "Going All the Way." 500 00:17:43,813 --> 00:17:45,273 I did a million-dollar movie called -- 501 00:17:45,315 --> 00:17:46,775 So I started working as an actor. 502 00:17:46,816 --> 00:17:48,693 -What was the level of support at that point? 503 00:17:48,735 --> 00:17:50,487 -The level of support was -- The thing about me and Matt 504 00:17:50,528 --> 00:17:53,239 was, like, if we were to get along and be friends, 505 00:17:53,281 --> 00:17:56,117 we had to find that out right away, 'cause when we were 16, 506 00:17:56,159 --> 00:17:58,453 we were going down to New York to read for -- 507 00:17:58,495 --> 00:18:00,372 you know, we read for "Prince of Tides" 508 00:18:00,413 --> 00:18:02,415 or we read for, like, Barbra Streisand's son. 509 00:18:02,457 --> 00:18:03,833 Those are good movies. 510 00:18:03,875 --> 00:18:05,585 We auditioned for "Dead Poets Society." 511 00:18:05,627 --> 00:18:07,545 We auditioned all these movies as kids. 512 00:18:07,587 --> 00:18:10,465 So I had to feel like, you know, "I want to get the part 513 00:18:10,507 --> 00:18:12,092 more than I want you to get the part. 514 00:18:12,133 --> 00:18:14,552 But if I don't get it, I want you to get it." 515 00:18:14,594 --> 00:18:17,555 So by the time actually, you know, we did movies. 516 00:18:17,597 --> 00:18:20,725 Matt got a part -- He got the lead in "School Ties," 517 00:18:20,767 --> 00:18:22,894 which I had a small part in, and then he got -- 518 00:18:22,936 --> 00:18:26,106 Really the thing, he got a couple of TNT movies. 519 00:18:26,147 --> 00:18:28,441 And then, in fact, I remember 520 00:18:28,483 --> 00:18:29,943 when we had written "Good Will Hunting," 521 00:18:29,984 --> 00:18:31,695 Matt got hired as a lead or the second lead 522 00:18:31,736 --> 00:18:33,863 in a Tommy Lee Jones TNT Western. 523 00:18:33,905 --> 00:18:35,949 And he was like -- It was called "The Good Old Boys." 524 00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:37,784 And he was like, "Listen, man, you know, 525 00:18:37,826 --> 00:18:39,536 I think we give the script to Tommy and we get Tommy. 526 00:18:39,577 --> 00:18:40,954 We could get our mil--" You know, and I was like, 527 00:18:40,995 --> 00:18:43,373 "Alright, how are we gonna approach Tommy?" 528 00:18:43,415 --> 00:18:45,083 We talked about it, planned it out. 529 00:18:45,125 --> 00:18:46,501 We're going to Tommy. 530 00:18:46,543 --> 00:18:48,003 And, like, he went down to wherever he was, 531 00:18:48,044 --> 00:18:50,422 Oklahoma or Texas, whatever, that first day. 532 00:18:50,463 --> 00:18:51,798 I called him at the hotel, 533 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,591 you know, the Motel 6 where he was at. 534 00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:55,051 I was like, "How'd it go? Did you talk to Tommy?" 535 00:18:55,093 --> 00:18:57,095 He goes, "I don't think Tommy's gonna do it." 536 00:18:57,137 --> 00:18:59,973 -[ Laughs ] 537 00:19:00,015 --> 00:19:01,933 -I was like, "Say no more. 538 00:19:01,975 --> 00:19:04,144 So it's not gonna happen with Tommy?" 539 00:19:04,185 --> 00:19:06,563 He was like, "No, it's not gonna happen with Tommy." 540 00:19:06,604 --> 00:19:08,064 -I love your take on it, man, 541 00:19:08,106 --> 00:19:10,025 but I don't want to stop you, but I have to. 542 00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:11,985 Guys, we're gonna take a quick commercial break. 543 00:19:12,027 --> 00:19:14,362 We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this. 544 00:19:14,404 --> 00:19:23,079 ** 545 00:19:23,121 --> 00:19:27,083 Season 4, we're kicking it off with, hey, man, a good friend. 546 00:19:27,125 --> 00:19:29,836 Actually, a fellow hyphenate, 547 00:19:29,878 --> 00:19:31,671 which means that you're dealing with a multi-- 548 00:19:31,713 --> 00:19:33,715 a multi-layered individual in the business. 549 00:19:33,757 --> 00:19:35,592 I get to kick it off -- Huh? 550 00:19:35,633 --> 00:19:37,260 -I always thought that was an insult. 551 00:19:37,302 --> 00:19:38,845 Now I know they were trying to say a nice thing. 552 00:19:38,887 --> 00:19:40,597 -I thought they were saying that -- 553 00:19:40,638 --> 00:19:41,973 -They're fucking with me with the hyphenate thing. 554 00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:43,558 -No, no. Okay. Oh, that's good, Kev. 555 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,268 -Oh, that's good? Oh, yeah, no, hyphenate. 556 00:19:45,310 --> 00:19:46,770 Yeah. 557 00:19:46,811 --> 00:19:53,526 ** 558 00:19:57,405 --> 00:20:01,868 ** 559 00:20:01,910 --> 00:20:03,995 -Hey, everybody, welcome back. This is "Hart to Heart." 560 00:20:04,037 --> 00:20:05,747 We're talking to Ben Affleck. 561 00:20:05,789 --> 00:20:07,165 What an amazing conversation it is. 562 00:20:07,207 --> 00:20:09,292 So, Ben, I interrupt you. I apologize. 563 00:20:09,334 --> 00:20:10,835 But finish, please. 564 00:20:10,877 --> 00:20:12,754 -So, we had a great agent, Patrick Whitesell -- 565 00:20:12,796 --> 00:20:15,507 young, didn't have cli-- you know, just starting out, 566 00:20:15,548 --> 00:20:16,925 was like, "Fuck it. Like the script." 567 00:20:16,966 --> 00:20:18,551 And we said, "But we got to be in it." 568 00:20:18,593 --> 00:20:20,095 And everybody else was like, "That's not --" 569 00:20:20,136 --> 00:20:22,597 You know, he was like, "Alright, okay." 570 00:20:22,639 --> 00:20:24,307 And he wasn't like, "You're crazy," 571 00:20:24,349 --> 00:20:26,017 or, "That's not gonna happen." 572 00:20:26,059 --> 00:20:28,228 -His energy matched the same level of ignorance 573 00:20:28,269 --> 00:20:29,521 that yours did in the beginning 574 00:20:29,562 --> 00:20:31,314 of not realizing the consequence. 575 00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:33,191 -It was, like, ridiculous, so we went out 576 00:20:33,233 --> 00:20:35,360 and auctioned this fucking thing off to where one bidder -- 577 00:20:35,402 --> 00:20:38,071 And we were living -- I actually had moved in with this woman 578 00:20:38,113 --> 00:20:41,533 to -- We moved out of the house in Eagle Rock, 579 00:20:41,574 --> 00:20:43,493 and I was gonna move in with this girl. 580 00:20:43,535 --> 00:20:45,787 And I moved in with her, 581 00:20:45,829 --> 00:20:48,790 and Matt and my other buddy got another apartment, 582 00:20:48,832 --> 00:20:51,918 and I think I was there for three days, and we broke up. 583 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,628 And I was like, "Yo, Matt, I got to come back." 584 00:20:53,670 --> 00:20:55,296 -"I'm coming over there." -He was like, he had a couch. 585 00:20:55,338 --> 00:20:58,883 I was sleeping on a Naugahyde couch in -- 586 00:20:58,925 --> 00:21:01,970 on, like -- it was Curson in West Hollywood. 587 00:21:02,012 --> 00:21:05,390 And there was three of us in a two-bedroom little thing. 588 00:21:05,432 --> 00:21:07,017 And I'll never forget it. 589 00:21:07,058 --> 00:21:08,977 Our agent was like, "Yo, someone wants to buy the script, 590 00:21:09,019 --> 00:21:11,896 somebody else," and then it turned into this crazy, 591 00:21:11,938 --> 00:21:15,233 surreal thing where somebody's offering $100,000, 592 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:17,110 and then they're like, "Hey, they want to meet you, 593 00:21:17,152 --> 00:21:18,903 'cause you guys want to be it," so we started going around 594 00:21:18,945 --> 00:21:20,405 and having, like, meetings where all of a sudden 595 00:21:20,447 --> 00:21:22,323 you got onto the studio and let you in the gates. 596 00:21:22,365 --> 00:21:25,702 You go in the fancy offices. And I was like, "Oh, shit. 597 00:21:25,744 --> 00:21:27,245 This is the real thing." 598 00:21:27,287 --> 00:21:30,081 Paramount, Warner Bros., all these places that were like, 599 00:21:30,123 --> 00:21:33,668 at most, you park in the lot, walk over, read your scene. 600 00:21:33,710 --> 00:21:36,254 And we started meeting all these people, 601 00:21:36,296 --> 00:21:37,964 and all one after another. 602 00:21:38,006 --> 00:21:40,759 And we benefited from the fact that Hollywood is very -- 603 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,093 it's like, "Oh, this is the hot thing. 604 00:21:42,135 --> 00:21:44,012 Well, then let's go after that." 605 00:21:44,054 --> 00:21:47,307 And there was some original stuff in the script, I think, 606 00:21:47,349 --> 00:21:48,975 and it was just a time when people 607 00:21:49,017 --> 00:21:51,186 were taking risks on those back-sale things. 608 00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:53,021 I don't think any of them wanted us to be in the movie. 609 00:21:53,063 --> 00:21:55,190 They all were gonna buy it to get rid of us somehow. 610 00:21:55,231 --> 00:21:58,651 But when it got to be more and more and more interest 611 00:21:58,693 --> 00:22:00,362 and money, we started telling -- 612 00:22:00,403 --> 00:22:02,864 Our agent said, "No, you got to actually -- 613 00:22:02,906 --> 00:22:04,532 there's going to be a penalty if you get rid of them." 614 00:22:04,574 --> 00:22:06,451 And then it was, "No, they got to shoot for a week." 615 00:22:06,493 --> 00:22:08,995 And it was like trying to make just the whole thing 616 00:22:09,037 --> 00:22:10,622 so they can't fire us, 617 00:22:10,663 --> 00:22:12,207 'cause we knew they'd want to fire us. 618 00:22:12,248 --> 00:22:13,792 -Yeah. -There was no question. 619 00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:16,086 And then when we finally sold it, 620 00:22:16,127 --> 00:22:20,799 we sold the script for $650,000. 621 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,177 -At a time where selling specs was so cool 622 00:22:24,219 --> 00:22:26,971 but the number attached to a spec was significantly smaller. 623 00:22:27,013 --> 00:22:28,973 -$650,000 -Insane. 624 00:22:29,015 --> 00:22:32,352 -And we split it, $325,000 each. -Yeah. 625 00:22:32,394 --> 00:22:36,189 -Me and him both bought new Jeep Grand Cherokee Limiteds. 626 00:22:36,231 --> 00:22:38,900 -Yeah. By the way, first thing. -Right away. 627 00:22:38,942 --> 00:22:40,985 First check, "When can I get my Jeep?" 628 00:22:41,027 --> 00:22:42,821 -Hey, you gonna go get the Cherokee? 629 00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:43,905 God damn right I'm gonna get the Cherokee. 630 00:22:43,947 --> 00:22:45,031 -Then we had to flip for colors 631 00:22:45,073 --> 00:22:46,408 because we both wanted black. 632 00:22:46,449 --> 00:22:48,159 -Yeah. We can't both get black. 633 00:22:48,201 --> 00:22:50,245 -No, one had to get green 'cause that was too much his and his. 634 00:22:50,286 --> 00:22:52,372 I'm like, is it his and his if we get black and green? 635 00:22:52,414 --> 00:22:54,124 -Getting off the couch -- not the priority. 636 00:22:54,165 --> 00:22:56,334 -No. I had the car before I got off the couch. 637 00:22:56,376 --> 00:22:57,919 I had the car before the apartment. 638 00:22:57,961 --> 00:22:59,212 Then we wanted to rent, like, 639 00:22:59,254 --> 00:23:01,256 a dope house in the Hollywood Hills. 640 00:23:01,297 --> 00:23:02,674 We had no credit. 641 00:23:02,716 --> 00:23:04,509 But they had run this story in "Variety." 642 00:23:04,551 --> 00:23:06,886 We had been on the cover, I think, of "Variety." 643 00:23:06,928 --> 00:23:08,596 It was like, "Hey, these two knuckleheads, 644 00:23:08,638 --> 00:23:10,306 like, sell this script, and they're gonna be in it." 645 00:23:10,348 --> 00:23:12,392 -This is so good. -So to get the lease, 646 00:23:12,434 --> 00:23:14,185 we had to go in to the landlord and bring it. 647 00:23:14,227 --> 00:23:15,729 We were like, "We don't have credit, but we have this." 648 00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:17,272 We show him the cover of "Variety." 649 00:23:17,313 --> 00:23:19,858 "We got $650,000. We can pay for this lease." 650 00:23:19,899 --> 00:23:21,359 Lived right up by the Hollywood Bowl 651 00:23:21,401 --> 00:23:23,445 in this, like, kind of, like, you know, 652 00:23:23,486 --> 00:23:25,864 now I'm like, little janky kind of party house, 653 00:23:25,905 --> 00:23:27,699 but I really thought it was the shit. 654 00:23:27,741 --> 00:23:29,284 All our friends from home moved out. 655 00:23:29,325 --> 00:23:32,037 We had like seven, eight people living in there. 656 00:23:32,078 --> 00:23:34,164 Between the Cherokee and the rent... 657 00:23:34,205 --> 00:23:35,790 -Bye-bye. -...I was broke in eight months. 658 00:23:35,832 --> 00:23:37,125 -Yeah. Bye-bye. -And taxes. 659 00:23:37,167 --> 00:23:39,002 -Yeah. -I was like, "We made $650,000. 660 00:23:39,044 --> 00:23:41,379 $325,000, $160,000." 661 00:23:41,421 --> 00:23:42,922 -Who the fuck is taxes? 662 00:23:42,964 --> 00:23:44,466 That's what I said the first time I had to pay it. 663 00:23:44,507 --> 00:23:46,926 I said, "Why do I owe tax? I don't even know them. 664 00:23:46,968 --> 00:23:49,387 They didn't do shit for me." -I was like, tax, what? 665 00:23:49,429 --> 00:23:50,930 -Yeah. -That much? 666 00:23:50,972 --> 00:23:52,390 And it was like, yeah. 667 00:23:52,432 --> 00:23:53,892 It's like, so after you get your money, 668 00:23:53,933 --> 00:23:56,061 you got to get 40% tax and commission. 669 00:23:56,102 --> 00:23:58,188 I was like, 40%? Half to him, half -- 670 00:23:58,229 --> 00:24:01,816 So [Mumbling] 40%, we're at like, you know, $100,000. 671 00:24:01,858 --> 00:24:03,693 Well, I spent $50,000 on the truck. 672 00:24:03,735 --> 00:24:06,029 And then, like, the rent and being rich. 673 00:24:06,071 --> 00:24:09,240 Once you're rich -- I was rich. I was like, "I am rich." 674 00:24:09,282 --> 00:24:11,242 Then I'm really done. I was like, "We're rich." 675 00:24:11,284 --> 00:24:14,746 -Can I ask you a question? Would you change any of that? 676 00:24:14,788 --> 00:24:15,914 Would you do it the same way again? 677 00:24:15,955 --> 00:24:16,915 -No, I would -- -I would do it 678 00:24:16,956 --> 00:24:18,375 the same fucking way. 679 00:24:18,416 --> 00:24:21,294 I fucked off my first check for $250,000. 680 00:24:21,336 --> 00:24:25,090 Mine's was on throwback jerseys and Air Force 1s. 681 00:24:25,131 --> 00:24:26,758 -Oh, really? -That's a true story. 682 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,386 I think I spent $250,000... -Really? 683 00:24:29,427 --> 00:24:32,931 -...on throwback jerseys, Air Force 1s, and rental cars. 684 00:24:32,972 --> 00:24:34,391 -At least you have shit. 685 00:24:34,432 --> 00:24:35,767 I don't know where any of the money went. 686 00:24:35,809 --> 00:24:37,227 The rental house went back. 687 00:24:37,268 --> 00:24:38,853 -I don't know where them fucking jerseys at. 688 00:24:38,895 --> 00:24:40,105 Ben, I got no idea where them jerseys at. 689 00:24:40,146 --> 00:24:41,439 But you wouldn't change it 690 00:24:41,481 --> 00:24:43,149 because the stories are worth it. 691 00:24:43,191 --> 00:24:45,110 And the education that comes from it is worth it. 692 00:24:45,151 --> 00:24:46,945 -And what you learn is, like, "Oh." 693 00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:48,780 Like, that was the first I got a credit card, 694 00:24:48,822 --> 00:24:50,740 'cause I could get a credit card, and a business manager. 695 00:24:50,782 --> 00:24:53,284 "You need a business manager." I was like, "I do? Okay. 696 00:24:53,326 --> 00:24:54,577 Sign me up for the business manager." 697 00:24:54,619 --> 00:24:55,912 -Threw the kitchen sink at you. 698 00:24:55,954 --> 00:24:58,039 Although the education attached to that 699 00:24:58,081 --> 00:24:59,582 is sometimes what's skipped over. 700 00:24:59,624 --> 00:25:01,292 Making a client understand what they should do, 701 00:25:01,334 --> 00:25:03,169 why they should do it is skipped over. 702 00:25:03,211 --> 00:25:05,088 -And you have to get lucky and have really ethical people. 703 00:25:05,130 --> 00:25:06,631 That's what I really mostly did. 704 00:25:06,673 --> 00:25:09,467 Like I said, our agent, Patrick, was my best friend. 705 00:25:09,509 --> 00:25:12,470 And I realized how rare that is in Hollywood 706 00:25:12,512 --> 00:25:15,140 to have somebody that you trust who's giving you advice 707 00:25:15,181 --> 00:25:16,975 where you don't have to kind of go like, 708 00:25:17,017 --> 00:25:19,019 "What do they have in it, and why am I -- 709 00:25:19,060 --> 00:25:20,478 And what's the angle?" 710 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,023 A lot of that unhealthy bullshit that goes on. 711 00:25:23,064 --> 00:25:25,150 -Alright, wait, Ben, before we keep moving, 712 00:25:25,191 --> 00:25:27,318 man, we got to pay bills here on "Hart to Heart." 713 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,112 So, guys, we're gonna take a quick commercial break. 714 00:25:29,154 --> 00:25:31,865 We'll be right back with more Ben Affleck after this. 715 00:25:31,906 --> 00:25:34,868 ** 716 00:25:36,453 --> 00:25:37,704 -Sure. 717 00:25:37,746 --> 00:25:41,666 -Ben, this is so fucking good. It's so good. 718 00:25:41,708 --> 00:25:43,001 -Thank you. 719 00:25:43,043 --> 00:25:44,336 My wife will tell you, I like to talk. 720 00:25:44,377 --> 00:25:46,212 -No, no, no. This is so good, man. 721 00:25:46,254 --> 00:25:52,010 ** 722 00:25:57,015 --> 00:26:01,353 ** 723 00:26:01,394 --> 00:26:03,813 -Guys, this is "Hart to Heart," and we are back. 724 00:26:03,855 --> 00:26:05,315 I'm talking to Ben Affleck. 725 00:26:05,357 --> 00:26:07,108 And, Ben, you were saying? 726 00:26:07,150 --> 00:26:08,360 -First thing we did after "Good Will Hunting" 727 00:26:08,401 --> 00:26:09,986 was we went back and asked him -- 728 00:26:10,028 --> 00:26:11,738 me and Matt said -- We got an option 729 00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:13,531 to write another screenplay, and we went back to Gerry, 730 00:26:13,573 --> 00:26:14,949 our teacher, we were like, "Will you write it with us?" 731 00:26:14,991 --> 00:26:16,201 Went back to him, we're like, 732 00:26:16,242 --> 00:26:17,285 "We're gonna write this together." 733 00:26:17,327 --> 00:26:18,787 Yeah. It was cool. 734 00:26:18,828 --> 00:26:20,705 And I wish -- Of course, then we were like, "Oh --" 735 00:26:20,747 --> 00:26:22,457 You know, it was that thing where we started being like, 736 00:26:22,499 --> 00:26:24,334 "Hey, Gerry, let's all write this," 737 00:26:24,376 --> 00:26:26,544 like it was before when we had, like, sitting-around time. 738 00:26:26,586 --> 00:26:28,296 But then, because things that started happening, 739 00:26:28,338 --> 00:26:29,798 it was like, "What about this movie? 740 00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:31,549 What about that movie?" So we kind of got pulled. 741 00:26:31,591 --> 00:26:33,843 I regret -- I wish we had really invested in that 742 00:26:33,885 --> 00:26:35,679 and finished that script and spent more time with him 743 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,305 because part of it was like 744 00:26:37,347 --> 00:26:39,140 we wanted to give back to him and do that with him. 745 00:26:39,182 --> 00:26:41,184 But also, it was like -- You know how it is. 746 00:26:41,226 --> 00:26:42,894 When you've been working, working, working 747 00:26:42,936 --> 00:26:44,312 and nothing is happening 748 00:26:44,354 --> 00:26:45,730 and all of a sudden you have an offer, 749 00:26:45,772 --> 00:26:47,148 you're like, I don't know. 750 00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:48,233 I'm not in a position to say no to shit. 751 00:26:48,274 --> 00:26:49,776 -I don't want to go away. 752 00:26:49,818 --> 00:26:51,695 -Yeah, I got to take it 'cause it's gonna go away. 753 00:26:51,736 --> 00:26:54,197 -I remember what it felt like when I wasn't getting the calls. 754 00:26:54,239 --> 00:26:55,615 I remember what it felt like 755 00:26:55,657 --> 00:26:57,909 when nobody wanted to work or hire me. 756 00:26:57,951 --> 00:26:59,661 -And this can't be forever. You know what I mean? 757 00:26:59,703 --> 00:27:02,288 Like, okay, as long as this lasts, let's do it. 758 00:27:02,330 --> 00:27:03,957 -I only got three months. 759 00:27:03,998 --> 00:27:06,710 They say you probably got three months of being a hot guy. 760 00:27:06,751 --> 00:27:08,336 So I want to take everything for this time. 761 00:27:08,378 --> 00:27:10,839 -And so you start -- I worked nonstop, 762 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,176 you know, for probably at least like five years 763 00:27:15,218 --> 00:27:19,264 where I was doing as many movies as I could do 764 00:27:19,305 --> 00:27:21,141 so I wouldn't be my father. 765 00:27:21,182 --> 00:27:22,684 That gets in your head. 766 00:27:22,726 --> 00:27:24,769 It doesn't matter if it's like, "I got $6 million." 767 00:27:24,811 --> 00:27:27,272 And I'd be like, "Well, there's taxes, you know, and I know 768 00:27:27,313 --> 00:27:30,358 shit can go away, you know, and I'm not gonna fail. 769 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,943 I'm gonna make a living." 770 00:27:31,985 --> 00:27:34,946 Like, and so I really -- I realized how much of a driver 771 00:27:34,988 --> 00:27:38,283 that was for me, and I just start plowing through stuff. 772 00:27:38,324 --> 00:27:39,826 And that's the tricky thing 773 00:27:39,868 --> 00:27:41,786 'cause the most important question when you get -- 774 00:27:41,828 --> 00:27:44,497 You either have, in Hollywood, no options or all the options. 775 00:27:44,539 --> 00:27:47,625 And it's a very hard fucking jump to make. 776 00:27:47,667 --> 00:27:50,545 I remember when I saw, like, Michael B. Jordan at Sundance 777 00:27:50,587 --> 00:27:53,548 when he did "Fruitvale Station," I was like, "This dude's a star. 778 00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:55,884 And he's gonna blow the fuck up." 779 00:27:55,925 --> 00:27:57,552 And I loved his performance. 780 00:27:57,594 --> 00:27:59,721 And I said, "Hey, man, I just wanted to meet you." 781 00:27:59,763 --> 00:28:02,724 I said, like, "I just wish somebody had come up to me 782 00:28:02,766 --> 00:28:05,060 at this point in my life and been like, 783 00:28:05,101 --> 00:28:06,895 'Shit's about to get really crazy.' 784 00:28:06,936 --> 00:28:09,522 If you need anything or if you ever want advice, 785 00:28:09,564 --> 00:28:12,734 I'll never tell anybody anything that you and I talk about. 786 00:28:12,776 --> 00:28:14,944 And you can always call me, and I'll always tell you the truth." 787 00:28:14,986 --> 00:28:18,156 He actually -- you know, smart. He didn't need me. 788 00:28:18,198 --> 00:28:19,532 -He's a good dude. 789 00:28:19,574 --> 00:28:21,409 -But I just became friends with him. 790 00:28:21,451 --> 00:28:23,411 I got as much or more out of that friendship and still do, 791 00:28:23,453 --> 00:28:25,413 I think, than he does, but every now and again, 792 00:28:25,455 --> 00:28:28,041 I get that call, and I'll be like, Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. 793 00:28:28,083 --> 00:28:29,793 Okay. I hear you. Alright." 794 00:28:29,834 --> 00:28:32,462 And I felt very good to be able to be like, 795 00:28:32,504 --> 00:28:34,422 "This is what's really going on. 796 00:28:34,464 --> 00:28:35,674 And this is how --" You know what I mean? 797 00:28:35,715 --> 00:28:38,176 Because it's just a very unusual, 798 00:28:38,218 --> 00:28:40,178 weird, rare spot to be in. 799 00:28:40,220 --> 00:28:42,931 And somebody who, like, you know, the big lesson is, like, 800 00:28:42,972 --> 00:28:44,599 what you say no to matters. 801 00:28:44,641 --> 00:28:47,268 You know, all of a sudden, that matters more than anything 802 00:28:47,310 --> 00:28:48,770 in some ways, you know? 803 00:28:48,812 --> 00:28:50,230 And the way -- you know, 804 00:28:50,271 --> 00:28:52,774 personal interactions get very strange. 805 00:28:52,816 --> 00:28:54,567 Things change. Whole world changes. 806 00:28:54,609 --> 00:28:57,821 I'm like -- 'Cause I remember, really, I got famous 807 00:28:57,862 --> 00:29:01,700 for winning the Oscar, because that Oscars was the "Titanic." 808 00:29:01,741 --> 00:29:04,953 So I think to this day, it's the highest-rated Oscars has been -- 809 00:29:04,994 --> 00:29:07,789 There's never been, you know, a bigger number of people 810 00:29:07,831 --> 00:29:09,249 that watched the Oscars since that day. 811 00:29:09,290 --> 00:29:10,667 -That's your defining moment? 812 00:29:10,709 --> 00:29:12,293 Do you think that's your defining moment of, 813 00:29:12,335 --> 00:29:14,170 this is when the fame shit kicked in? 814 00:29:14,212 --> 00:29:15,630 -Absolutely, because I could tell. 815 00:29:15,672 --> 00:29:17,340 Because the day before, I was doing a movie. 816 00:29:17,382 --> 00:29:19,175 I flew back. I flew to L.A., went in the thing. 817 00:29:19,217 --> 00:29:21,845 When we won and I flew out to Pittsburgh 818 00:29:21,886 --> 00:29:24,514 and there was a line outside my trailer, 819 00:29:24,556 --> 00:29:27,642 I was like -- It was an actual overnight thing. 820 00:29:27,684 --> 00:29:30,478 And I was like -- My whole life had changed 821 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,313 completely in one night. 822 00:29:32,355 --> 00:29:33,898 Before that, it was like some people 823 00:29:33,940 --> 00:29:35,775 had seen "Good Will Hunting" but only at the time 824 00:29:35,817 --> 00:29:37,318 had made, whatever, $100 million, 825 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,403 $80 million at the box officer. 826 00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:39,863 That's not that many people. 827 00:29:39,904 --> 00:29:42,032 And I also was doing "Shakespeare in Love." 828 00:29:42,073 --> 00:29:44,325 And the movie hadn't come out over there, and they didn't, 829 00:29:44,367 --> 00:29:45,410 like, sort of pay as much attention 830 00:29:45,452 --> 00:29:46,995 to the Oscars and shit. 831 00:29:47,037 --> 00:29:48,788 So I could see, I would fly. I'd be in Pittsburgh. 832 00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:50,498 I'd be like -- I felt like Elvis. 833 00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:51,958 You know what I mean? 834 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,543 I have very low bar for what Elvis was. 835 00:29:53,585 --> 00:29:54,669 I'd be like, "Six people. I'm Elvis." 836 00:29:54,711 --> 00:29:56,504 But still, it feels like that. 837 00:29:56,546 --> 00:29:58,673 I go to England, nobody gives a fuck or know who I am. 838 00:29:58,715 --> 00:30:01,509 By the way, I can't imagine what it's like now 839 00:30:01,551 --> 00:30:03,511 to be in that experience with social media. 840 00:30:03,553 --> 00:30:05,305 -No, it's nowhere near the same. 841 00:30:05,347 --> 00:30:06,931 -Because at least then, you know, 842 00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:09,642 you could say something stupid or make some mistake, 843 00:30:09,684 --> 00:30:13,104 and, like, it wasn't -- you know, might not show up. 844 00:30:13,146 --> 00:30:17,192 -The idea of bad taste and bad judgment is always attached to, 845 00:30:17,233 --> 00:30:19,277 like, the bad idea, right? 846 00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:22,864 And, you know, like, nobody robs a bank 847 00:30:22,906 --> 00:30:25,116 'cause they think they're gonna get caught. 848 00:30:25,158 --> 00:30:26,701 Like, nobody robs the bank 849 00:30:26,743 --> 00:30:28,536 'cause they say, "After we get the money in our hand, 850 00:30:28,578 --> 00:30:30,205 we're gonna go outside, and they're gonna catch us." 851 00:30:30,246 --> 00:30:31,873 -Prison. -Yeah. 852 00:30:31,915 --> 00:30:35,001 Like, the bad idea isn't a bad idea until they get caught. 853 00:30:35,043 --> 00:30:36,753 Everybody's idea in the beginning is always good. 854 00:30:36,795 --> 00:30:38,338 -You think it's gonna work. You think it's good. 855 00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:39,422 Yeah, exactly. -Oh, no, 856 00:30:39,464 --> 00:30:40,715 we're gonna get away with this. 857 00:30:40,757 --> 00:30:42,676 Then you get caught and you're like, 858 00:30:42,717 --> 00:30:44,427 "This is the stupidest shit we ever did in our life, man. 859 00:30:44,469 --> 00:30:46,596 We didn't even make it to the fucking car, Earl." 860 00:30:46,638 --> 00:30:49,015 "I thought that we had 30 seconds. 861 00:30:49,057 --> 00:30:51,726 I didn't know that the cops was in the same building." 862 00:30:51,768 --> 00:30:53,520 "Bitch, you told us the plan was safe." 863 00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:54,938 "No, I did. I did tell you that." 864 00:30:54,979 --> 00:30:57,399 Like, nobody ever sees that happening. 865 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,694 So all ideas are good at the beginning. 866 00:31:00,735 --> 00:31:04,698 What I know -- I don't think -- what I know I see today 867 00:31:04,739 --> 00:31:09,911 is a lot of, like -- a lot of abuse to the "celebrity" 868 00:31:09,953 --> 00:31:13,832 or famous individual that's done from the outside 869 00:31:13,873 --> 00:31:16,209 that tends to break our celebrity 870 00:31:16,251 --> 00:31:18,211 or break our person of fame 871 00:31:18,253 --> 00:31:21,172 in a place where they just can't deal and they just can't handle. 872 00:31:21,214 --> 00:31:23,883 Those that have survived, those that have recovered, 873 00:31:23,925 --> 00:31:26,344 those that have figured out a way to get up 874 00:31:26,386 --> 00:31:30,515 and, you know, take the dust and break it off and go, "Okay, 875 00:31:30,557 --> 00:31:32,058 like, this is what it is, 876 00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,310 and now navigating in it is what I have to do 877 00:31:34,352 --> 00:31:36,438 until I figure it out." 878 00:31:36,479 --> 00:31:38,565 Those stories are some of the most amazing. 879 00:31:38,606 --> 00:31:39,774 As a person who's been in it -- 880 00:31:39,816 --> 00:31:41,443 I've been in the fucking shit, 881 00:31:41,484 --> 00:31:44,571 been in the fire on all different sides of it. 882 00:31:44,612 --> 00:31:48,658 Prevailing and succeeding through that is not a win. 883 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:50,785 It's a self-accomplishment. 884 00:31:50,827 --> 00:31:54,456 It's a self-accomplishment because you go, 885 00:31:54,497 --> 00:31:56,541 "I understand who I am." 886 00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:59,461 And when you start to understand who you are more, 887 00:31:59,502 --> 00:32:02,130 the world of outside doesn't affect the inside 888 00:32:02,172 --> 00:32:04,174 because you then put yourself in an environment 889 00:32:04,215 --> 00:32:06,634 where you only care about those that really know. 890 00:32:06,676 --> 00:32:09,721 And I think that's when the work gets better, 891 00:32:09,763 --> 00:32:11,848 your understanding of why. 892 00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:15,268 -Everything. -Everything fucking gets better 893 00:32:15,310 --> 00:32:18,104 when you go, "Kind of I'm good." 894 00:32:18,146 --> 00:32:20,065 -It's not -- First of all, it's learning 895 00:32:20,106 --> 00:32:21,524 that I can do difficult things. 896 00:32:21,566 --> 00:32:23,526 -Mm-hmm. -I can survive painful things. 897 00:32:23,568 --> 00:32:25,403 -Mm-hmm. -It doesn't mean you -- 898 00:32:25,445 --> 00:32:27,197 And this is gonna be part of life. 899 00:32:27,238 --> 00:32:30,075 And it's sort of like what I see in parenting children. 900 00:32:30,116 --> 00:32:32,160 It's like, you're not gonna protect your kid 901 00:32:32,202 --> 00:32:33,995 from falling down, getting hurt, having a bully, whatever. 902 00:32:34,037 --> 00:32:37,040 It's that I'm gonna be with you, stand next to you 903 00:32:37,082 --> 00:32:39,334 as you go through the process of discovering 904 00:32:39,376 --> 00:32:41,670 that this is gonna be painful and that you're gonna recover. 905 00:32:41,711 --> 00:32:43,755 'Cause that's the most important lesson to learn. 906 00:32:43,797 --> 00:32:46,758 And that you have support and I love you and you can get better 907 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,843 and it's gonna be okay and this is gonna be a memory. 908 00:32:48,885 --> 00:32:50,553 And, in fact, you're gonna have grown from it. 909 00:32:50,595 --> 00:32:52,013 You're gonna look back on it. 910 00:32:52,055 --> 00:32:54,015 You know, it takes a lot to look back on some -- 911 00:32:54,057 --> 00:32:55,517 which I have reached the point of. 912 00:32:55,558 --> 00:32:56,976 There are some things I'm grateful for 913 00:32:57,018 --> 00:32:58,728 that I never thought I'd be grateful for. 914 00:32:58,770 --> 00:33:01,606 But what you're teaching is that you can do it, 915 00:33:01,648 --> 00:33:03,900 and it makes you -- it gives a confidence 916 00:33:03,942 --> 00:33:05,485 and is really what, you know, especially for young men, 917 00:33:05,527 --> 00:33:06,903 it's like what makes us men 918 00:33:06,945 --> 00:33:08,822 is that we don't have anything to prove. 919 00:33:08,863 --> 00:33:11,074 I don't need to worry about who said what or fighting somebody, 920 00:33:11,116 --> 00:33:13,868 all this bullshit that comes from, I'm insecure, 921 00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:15,370 I'm worried, I'm afraid of something bad 922 00:33:15,412 --> 00:33:17,038 happening to me, so I'll get you first. 923 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,000 You know, you're in this fear mindset, and it's like 924 00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:21,584 at the end of the day, 925 00:33:21,626 --> 00:33:24,254 my life's ultimately going to be my responsibility. 926 00:33:24,295 --> 00:33:25,672 That's the person that's gonna -- 927 00:33:25,714 --> 00:33:27,674 principal driver of the events in my life. 928 00:33:27,716 --> 00:33:29,676 I sit around and go, "Well, this and that." 929 00:33:29,718 --> 00:33:32,429 The healthiest thing I ever did was somebody said, like, 930 00:33:32,470 --> 00:33:33,930 "All these resentments that you have, 931 00:33:33,972 --> 00:33:35,724 all these things that you feel were unfair, 932 00:33:35,765 --> 00:33:37,225 what was your part in it?" 933 00:33:37,267 --> 00:33:38,727 I'm like, "My part in it? That's the point." 934 00:33:38,768 --> 00:33:40,228 Da da da da da. -Yeah. 935 00:33:40,270 --> 00:33:42,647 -But you look at every one and you go, "Well... 936 00:33:42,689 --> 00:33:44,065 I guess if I hadn't have, you know, 937 00:33:44,107 --> 00:33:46,109 got in business with that dude, 'cause I kind -- 938 00:33:46,151 --> 00:33:47,861 Well, if I hadn't gone out." You know what I mean? 939 00:33:47,902 --> 00:33:49,654 'Cause I didn't really -- 940 00:33:49,696 --> 00:33:51,740 And it's not that it's all my fault or it's all -- 941 00:33:51,781 --> 00:33:53,742 It's that you understand 942 00:33:53,783 --> 00:33:56,119 that you participate in the events of your life. 943 00:33:56,161 --> 00:33:57,829 And you go, "Okay." 944 00:33:57,871 --> 00:33:59,372 And now, there are some things where you're just walking 945 00:33:59,414 --> 00:34:00,415 down the street, a piano falls on you. 946 00:34:00,457 --> 00:34:01,791 I understand that. 947 00:34:01,833 --> 00:34:03,418 That's just another part of life, 948 00:34:03,460 --> 00:34:05,128 which is that bad things happen, 949 00:34:05,170 --> 00:34:07,047 and some people have much more difficult lives than others, 950 00:34:07,088 --> 00:34:09,007 and I wish it weren't so, but it is. 951 00:34:09,049 --> 00:34:11,217 And if you're there, you go, "How do I deal with that?" 952 00:34:11,259 --> 00:34:12,510 That's the question. 953 00:34:12,552 --> 00:34:14,012 And it's by learning. 954 00:34:14,054 --> 00:34:17,098 And I have had -- I would say in my career, 955 00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:21,728 I mean, it's been, you know, 30 -- you know, 30 years. 956 00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:25,148 And I've had the crash, multiple wipeouts, 957 00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:26,858 never gonna work again, never gonna fucking -- 958 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:28,693 You know, I've had like three medals for -- 959 00:34:28,735 --> 00:34:31,863 -Who's your roommate? -[ Laughs ] 960 00:34:31,905 --> 00:34:34,783 "Kev, you gonna eat your -- Kev, you gonna eat your -- 961 00:34:34,824 --> 00:34:36,451 You gonna finish yours?" 962 00:34:36,493 --> 00:34:38,745 "Yeah, Ben, I'm gonna eat 'cause I'm still hungry." 963 00:34:38,787 --> 00:34:40,413 I'm right over there. 964 00:34:40,455 --> 00:34:44,042 -I mean, the best lesson I learned was, I remember 2004, 3. 965 00:34:44,084 --> 00:34:46,795 I had like three, four movies come out that just died. 966 00:34:46,836 --> 00:34:49,464 People lost money. You know, I got gang tied. 967 00:34:49,506 --> 00:34:51,216 And it was like, you know, 968 00:34:51,257 --> 00:34:54,302 I got really fucking cold to where I was like, "Oh, shit." 969 00:34:54,344 --> 00:34:56,846 And that's what -- I mean, it wasn't that -- 970 00:34:56,888 --> 00:34:59,891 It seemed like a long time, you know, 1997 to there. 971 00:34:59,933 --> 00:35:02,143 But that was six years or so. 972 00:35:02,185 --> 00:35:04,062 And all of a sudden, I'm like, "I can't -- 973 00:35:04,104 --> 00:35:05,980 This person not calling me., I can't reach this person." 974 00:35:06,022 --> 00:35:08,316 And I learned very early, relative to now -- 975 00:35:08,358 --> 00:35:09,776 This was 20 years ago. 976 00:35:09,818 --> 00:35:11,444 I have had the benefit of 20 years of knowing, 977 00:35:11,486 --> 00:35:13,822 this is not about -- these are not relationships 978 00:35:13,863 --> 00:35:15,240 which are my friends. 979 00:35:15,281 --> 00:35:16,825 This is a transaction. This is people -- 980 00:35:16,866 --> 00:35:18,410 I represent something 981 00:35:18,451 --> 00:35:19,994 that's meaningful to this person's goals or ambition. 982 00:35:20,036 --> 00:35:21,913 I don't need to have that many friends. 983 00:35:21,955 --> 00:35:23,998 I don't need to have to attribute to friends with this. 984 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,667 And I'm not going to subscribe to it. 985 00:35:25,709 --> 00:35:27,210 Someone goes, "Well, for the relationship.' 986 00:35:27,252 --> 00:35:28,503 I don't believe that we have that relationship. 987 00:35:28,545 --> 00:35:31,339 -It's not real. -Yeah. 988 00:35:31,381 --> 00:35:34,426 -I'll say it for you. It's not fucking real. 989 00:35:34,467 --> 00:35:36,761 And there's a moment that you go through in your career 990 00:35:36,803 --> 00:35:40,306 where you think it's all real, 'cause it's so hot. 991 00:35:40,348 --> 00:35:42,517 Everybody that said they loved me got to love me. 992 00:35:42,559 --> 00:35:43,935 -I'm the best. -I'm the best. 993 00:35:43,977 --> 00:35:45,937 I'm the fucking hottest thing ever. 994 00:35:45,979 --> 00:35:48,023 I don't really know these 10 guys. 995 00:35:48,064 --> 00:35:49,774 I don't know who they are, but they're gonna come 996 00:35:49,816 --> 00:35:51,484 to the house today to hang out 997 00:35:51,526 --> 00:35:53,361 because they're my friends today. 998 00:35:53,403 --> 00:35:56,823 But when shit hits the fan, that number gets slim, 999 00:35:56,865 --> 00:35:59,117 that circle -- that circle fades. 1000 00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:00,869 -It's so important, man, that I -- 1001 00:36:00,910 --> 00:36:03,997 then I don't go down the road believing these -- 1002 00:36:04,039 --> 00:36:06,416 I can make friends. It takes a long time. 1003 00:36:06,458 --> 00:36:09,878 You know, you can't have that many really good friends. 1004 00:36:09,919 --> 00:36:11,379 I have a lot of people that I love 1005 00:36:11,421 --> 00:36:13,131 and care about who I do believe are genuine, 1006 00:36:13,173 --> 00:36:14,841 and then I have, like, really close friends. 1007 00:36:14,883 --> 00:36:16,885 And it doesn't mean you have to be cynical. 1008 00:36:16,926 --> 00:36:19,721 It just means that, you know, it's authentic. 1009 00:36:19,763 --> 00:36:21,723 It's real. It's the same way it was before. 1010 00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:23,099 And I remember somebody telling me -- 1011 00:36:23,141 --> 00:36:24,934 Like, I went home, and I was -- to Boston. 1012 00:36:24,976 --> 00:36:27,645 I was all kind of talking about I was bitter and going, 1013 00:36:27,687 --> 00:36:29,147 "I can't believe this dude," ba ba ba. 1014 00:36:29,189 --> 00:36:31,024 "I want to do this. Now I can't," yada yada. 1015 00:36:31,066 --> 00:36:32,525 "And why were they telling me this?" 1016 00:36:32,567 --> 00:36:34,319 And the guy was like, "Listen. 1017 00:36:34,361 --> 00:36:38,031 Last week, they shot a guy for $500 at a liquor store. 1018 00:36:38,073 --> 00:36:40,408 You don't think a guy's gonna laugh at your bullshit 1019 00:36:40,450 --> 00:36:42,202 for more than that?" 1020 00:36:42,243 --> 00:36:45,622 I was like, "Ooh. 1021 00:36:45,663 --> 00:36:47,374 Yeah." 1022 00:36:47,415 --> 00:36:49,042 -Your breakdown is spot-on. 1023 00:36:49,084 --> 00:36:50,794 Ben, I don't want to interrupt you, but I have to, 1024 00:36:50,835 --> 00:36:52,545 only because we got to take a commercial break. 1025 00:36:52,587 --> 00:36:55,340 Guys, we'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this. 1026 00:36:55,382 --> 00:37:03,264 ** 1027 00:37:03,306 --> 00:37:07,936 I told him he's got 50 minutes to an hour max, 1028 00:37:07,977 --> 00:37:10,563 and the clock starts right now. -Thank you. 1029 00:37:10,605 --> 00:37:13,108 [ Indistinct talking ] 1030 00:37:13,149 --> 00:37:15,443 As long as you blame it on him, then I don't have to -- 1031 00:37:15,485 --> 00:37:17,779 -Oh, not on my watch. -It's always my fault. 1032 00:37:17,821 --> 00:37:19,114 -Not on my watch. 1033 00:37:19,155 --> 00:37:21,032 -Can we get someone to shoot this? 1034 00:37:21,074 --> 00:37:27,789 ** 1035 00:37:32,210 --> 00:37:36,172 ** 1036 00:37:36,214 --> 00:37:37,882 -Ben. -Harry. Nice to meet you, sir. 1037 00:37:37,924 --> 00:37:38,967 -Best friend. -Is that right? 1038 00:37:39,009 --> 00:37:40,844 -Writer for me during stand-up. 1039 00:37:40,885 --> 00:37:43,138 -Really? -But, like, this is my -- 1040 00:37:43,179 --> 00:37:45,015 If you see me, you'll see him. 1041 00:37:45,056 --> 00:37:46,683 You'll never see me without him. -Well, I'm a big fan. 1042 00:37:46,725 --> 00:37:48,435 -Oh. Much appreciated. 1043 00:37:48,476 --> 00:37:50,270 -Get your coffee, then we'll take some pictures. 1044 00:37:50,311 --> 00:37:52,564 Hey, everybody, welcome back. This is "Hart to Heart." 1045 00:37:52,605 --> 00:37:54,107 We're talking to Ben Affleck. 1046 00:37:54,149 --> 00:37:55,650 What an amazing conversation it is. 1047 00:37:55,692 --> 00:37:59,112 So, Ben, early on, your dad, screenplays, you, 1048 00:37:59,154 --> 00:38:00,780 started writing but this and that. 1049 00:38:00,822 --> 00:38:02,449 You didn't get to the point 1050 00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:04,409 where you're at the highest of the high of your career. 1051 00:38:04,451 --> 00:38:06,202 After being at the highest of the high, Ben Affleck, 1052 00:38:06,244 --> 00:38:08,455 a leading man, you then say, "Well, I'm gonna start 1053 00:38:08,496 --> 00:38:12,584 playing around more with the concept of directing," 1054 00:38:12,625 --> 00:38:16,463 having the same level of success behind the camera 1055 00:38:16,504 --> 00:38:19,799 that matches the energy that's in front of the camera. 1056 00:38:19,841 --> 00:38:22,260 Do you now have a favorite? 1057 00:38:22,302 --> 00:38:27,724 Do you now say, "I would much rather be here than there"? 1058 00:38:27,766 --> 00:38:29,809 -Not much rather. 1059 00:38:29,851 --> 00:38:32,479 I've enjoyed acting more in my life 1060 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,815 for the last five or six years, play a kind of part -- 1061 00:38:35,857 --> 00:38:38,318 because I've just played parts that I thought were interesting. 1062 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,153 I've stopped worrying about, what's people gonna think? 1063 00:38:40,195 --> 00:38:42,030 Are they gonna think this me, or is it gonna make me 1064 00:38:42,072 --> 00:38:44,282 more famous or star or help my career? 1065 00:38:44,324 --> 00:38:46,326 I'm just like, "I like this part. 1066 00:38:46,368 --> 00:38:47,952 I'm going to do it. I think it's interesting. 1067 00:38:47,994 --> 00:38:49,662 I have something to offer," and not do ones 1068 00:38:49,704 --> 00:38:54,626 that I just don't feel anything for, than I've ever had. 1069 00:38:54,668 --> 00:38:59,214 That being said, I feel that at my heart, what am I really, 1070 00:38:59,255 --> 00:39:00,674 if I had to say one thing, it would be a filmmaker, 1071 00:39:00,715 --> 00:39:02,133 would be a director, because that's really 1072 00:39:02,175 --> 00:39:04,219 what I most deeply love, 1073 00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:06,513 because it engages not just the parts of me 1074 00:39:06,554 --> 00:39:11,393 that are expressive, which is joyful 1075 00:39:11,434 --> 00:39:14,062 and I really love. 1076 00:39:14,104 --> 00:39:16,231 First of all, I'm also a little bit shy. 1077 00:39:16,272 --> 00:39:17,982 I also don't like a lot of attention. 1078 00:39:18,024 --> 00:39:19,484 This is why people see me and they're like, 1079 00:39:19,526 --> 00:39:21,194 "This dude always mad." 1080 00:39:21,236 --> 00:39:23,988 Because somebody has their camera and stick it in my face 1081 00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:25,448 and I'm like, "Okay, here we go," 1082 00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:27,033 They think you're mad just because I don't -- 1083 00:39:27,075 --> 00:39:28,368 Like, this is not what I feel like doing. 1084 00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:30,328 I don't want to be bothered. -Yeah. 1085 00:39:30,370 --> 00:39:32,038 And also 'cause I'm with my kids and you're taking my picture. 1086 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,332 Actually what I'd like to do is do something 1087 00:39:34,374 --> 00:39:39,212 much more definitive than just, like, look at you like this. 1088 00:39:39,254 --> 00:39:40,880 And I may be angry that you're around my child. 1089 00:39:40,922 --> 00:39:42,382 I don't mind you take my picture when I'm at a club 1090 00:39:42,424 --> 00:39:43,883 or premier, whatever, my wife. 1091 00:39:43,925 --> 00:39:45,301 I don't give a fuck. Go ahead. 1092 00:39:45,343 --> 00:39:47,053 Knock yourself out. I don't notice you. 1093 00:39:47,095 --> 00:39:48,513 But with my children, that's a different thing. 1094 00:39:48,555 --> 00:39:51,349 -The perception of anger comes from a photo. 1095 00:39:51,391 --> 00:39:53,727 What I'm doing at that time and where I'm at, 1096 00:39:53,768 --> 00:39:58,231 I'm actually trying to enjoy my person or my people. 1097 00:39:58,273 --> 00:39:59,858 -Somebody's imposing on that. 1098 00:39:59,899 --> 00:40:01,735 And by the way, I also may be somebody who, like -- 1099 00:40:01,776 --> 00:40:04,112 I do find myself -- I'm like -- be sitting at home. 1100 00:40:04,154 --> 00:40:06,364 "What's wrong?" "Nothing. Nothing's wrong." 1101 00:40:06,406 --> 00:40:07,949 I'm like, "Nothing." I'm listening to this thing. 1102 00:40:07,991 --> 00:40:09,659 I start thinking, is something wrong? 1103 00:40:09,701 --> 00:40:11,244 -You have resting bitch face. 1104 00:40:11,286 --> 00:40:13,246 -Bitch fa-- -Do you know what that is? 1105 00:40:13,288 --> 00:40:15,915 Do you know what that is? -I have resting hard face. 1106 00:40:15,957 --> 00:40:17,709 -No, do you know what that is? -Yes. 1107 00:40:17,751 --> 00:40:20,587 -Resting bitch face, it's like when they say people just sit, 1108 00:40:20,628 --> 00:40:23,548 and you always assume that they attitude or that they're wrong, 1109 00:40:23,590 --> 00:40:25,300 and those people are actually just cool. 1110 00:40:25,342 --> 00:40:26,926 -Yeah, it is the thing where you see somebody -- 1111 00:40:26,968 --> 00:40:28,762 And I have also -- It's been part of my -- 1112 00:40:28,803 --> 00:40:30,305 I've, like, noticed this. 1113 00:40:30,347 --> 00:40:33,099 Like, people are projecting something onto me 1114 00:40:33,141 --> 00:40:35,268 that I don't feel about myself at all. 1115 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:36,853 And one is, I do think it gives off, 1116 00:40:36,895 --> 00:40:40,273 whether it's a certain look or, you know, I don't know, 1117 00:40:40,315 --> 00:40:42,150 role or something or look like somebody 1118 00:40:42,192 --> 00:40:43,777 or, "Shit came easy to this dude." 1119 00:40:43,818 --> 00:40:45,278 People are like -- for a long time, they'd be like, 1120 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,863 "This guy's a frat guy." 1121 00:40:46,905 --> 00:40:49,032 I've never been in a fraternity one day in my life. 1122 00:40:49,074 --> 00:40:50,450 Never once been inside a fraternity. 1123 00:40:50,492 --> 00:40:52,035 Nothing against it. How can I be against it? 1124 00:40:52,077 --> 00:40:53,453 I've never been there. 1125 00:40:53,495 --> 00:40:54,996 But I don't know why you motherfuckers 1126 00:40:55,038 --> 00:40:56,289 are all saying I'm a frat guy either. 1127 00:40:56,331 --> 00:40:58,083 I'm like, "I didn't even go to college." 1128 00:40:58,124 --> 00:40:59,834 -I'm getting bothered because you're saying I'm a frat guy. 1129 00:40:59,876 --> 00:41:01,127 And I don't even know what the fuck that means. 1130 00:41:01,169 --> 00:41:02,545 I've never been in a frat. 1131 00:41:02,587 --> 00:41:04,339 -It's taught me that this is the whole -- 1132 00:41:04,381 --> 00:41:06,633 The projection that people get is not necessarily one. 1133 00:41:06,675 --> 00:41:08,218 If you want to, and I know people that do this 1134 00:41:08,259 --> 00:41:10,178 and are very good at it, and I envy them. 1135 00:41:10,220 --> 00:41:11,721 And it's probably -- I've gone back and forth. 1136 00:41:11,763 --> 00:41:13,556 Is this a mistake? Is this a weakness? 1137 00:41:13,598 --> 00:41:14,974 Is this -- or laziness? 1138 00:41:15,016 --> 00:41:17,185 You know, I knew -- It was like, "No, I got to be real. 1139 00:41:17,227 --> 00:41:18,812 "I can't change who I am. 1140 00:41:18,853 --> 00:41:20,647 All this shit that was a little bit of bullshit, too. 1141 00:41:20,689 --> 00:41:21,981 It was like people from back home would be like, 1142 00:41:22,023 --> 00:41:23,692 "Stay who I want you to be." 1143 00:41:23,733 --> 00:41:25,652 Well, hold on. You know what I mean? 1144 00:41:25,694 --> 00:41:28,154 Like, I got to figure out who I want to be. 1145 00:41:28,196 --> 00:41:31,116 And -- But I feel like, you know, there are people 1146 00:41:31,157 --> 00:41:34,327 who are very good at, like, who are like, "Look, it's an act." 1147 00:41:34,369 --> 00:41:36,329 The whole fucking thing's an act now, right? 1148 00:41:36,371 --> 00:41:38,331 Instagram's an act. Social media is an act. 1149 00:41:38,373 --> 00:41:39,499 What image you want to put out there, 1150 00:41:39,541 --> 00:41:41,292 what do you want to show people 1151 00:41:41,334 --> 00:41:42,836 to make them interested in the act that you're doing? 1152 00:41:42,877 --> 00:41:45,839 Because nobody is posting their lowest moment. 1153 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,299 Some people are crying on there, but, you know, 1154 00:41:48,341 --> 00:41:50,343 nobody is advertising, like, "I'm an asshole. 1155 00:41:50,385 --> 00:41:52,429 Look how horrendous I am." 1156 00:41:52,470 --> 00:41:54,764 You have a outside version of your life 1157 00:41:54,806 --> 00:41:57,350 that's curated that you're advertising on social media 1158 00:41:57,392 --> 00:41:58,852 and whatever platform you're using. 1159 00:41:58,893 --> 00:42:00,270 -It's a highlight reel. 1160 00:42:00,311 --> 00:42:01,730 It's a consistent highlight reel. 1161 00:42:01,771 --> 00:42:03,189 -It's like a trailer. 1162 00:42:03,231 --> 00:42:04,524 The trailer's always better than movies, 1163 00:42:04,566 --> 00:42:05,692 'cause you leave out the bad shit. 1164 00:42:05,734 --> 00:42:07,152 They got some hits. 1165 00:42:07,193 --> 00:42:08,820 -Now, before I go into, like, 1166 00:42:08,862 --> 00:42:11,906 the next question, because I have to ask it, 1167 00:42:11,948 --> 00:42:13,533 I want to take a break. 1168 00:42:13,575 --> 00:42:15,785 Let's take a quick break and pay some bills, guys, 1169 00:42:15,827 --> 00:42:17,537 and when we come back, 1170 00:42:17,579 --> 00:42:19,539 we'll have more "Hart to Heart" with Ben Affleck. 1171 00:42:19,581 --> 00:42:23,877 ** 1172 00:42:23,918 --> 00:42:26,546 Oh, it's good, Kev. 1173 00:42:26,588 --> 00:42:34,262 ** 1174 00:42:34,304 --> 00:42:35,930 -Alright, here we go. One. 1175 00:42:35,972 --> 00:42:38,016 Good. Good. 1176 00:42:38,058 --> 00:42:40,894 Good. Perfect. Good. 1177 00:42:40,935 --> 00:42:42,604 [ Flashbulb pops ] 1178 00:42:42,645 --> 00:42:49,736 ** 1179 00:42:54,282 --> 00:42:58,703 ** 1180 00:42:58,745 --> 00:43:00,663 -Welcome back. This is "Hart to Heart." 1181 00:43:00,705 --> 00:43:02,332 And we're sitting here with Ben Affleck. 1182 00:43:02,374 --> 00:43:05,210 So, Ben, I can't sit up here and talk to you 1183 00:43:05,251 --> 00:43:07,337 and not bring up the year 1184 00:43:07,379 --> 00:43:09,506 that you got People's Sexiest Man Alive. 1185 00:43:09,547 --> 00:43:11,549 I don't even know if you noticed or not, 1186 00:43:11,591 --> 00:43:13,134 I was the runner-up. 1187 00:43:13,176 --> 00:43:15,011 -Is that right? -Well, yeah. 1188 00:43:15,053 --> 00:43:16,763 It was a tough time for me. I just want to make you aware. 1189 00:43:16,805 --> 00:43:18,973 -Actually, I knew that, and they were like, "Listen, 1190 00:43:19,015 --> 00:43:20,809 we're gonna give it to Hart if you don't take it." 1191 00:43:20,850 --> 00:43:22,394 I was like, "Fuck it. I'll take it." 1192 00:43:22,435 --> 00:43:24,104 -Yeah, well, it was a shit show for me 1193 00:43:24,145 --> 00:43:28,566 because they called me and I've really prepared for life after. 1194 00:43:28,608 --> 00:43:31,403 Life after Sexiest Man Alive. 1195 00:43:31,444 --> 00:43:33,863 In all seriousness, this is something 1196 00:43:33,905 --> 00:43:36,908 that "People" magazine has done year after year. 1197 00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:39,536 And I love that -- 1198 00:43:39,577 --> 00:43:40,995 I know the men that they've picked. 1199 00:43:41,037 --> 00:43:43,873 And I know that these are the least -- 1200 00:43:43,915 --> 00:43:46,751 You could care less about something like this. 1201 00:43:46,793 --> 00:43:50,046 But when it happens, there's another level of attention. 1202 00:43:50,088 --> 00:43:53,508 Ben Affleck after the Sexiest Man Alive, 1203 00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:55,510 was he different? 1204 00:43:55,552 --> 00:43:58,221 Was he -- Were your shoulders a little different 1205 00:43:58,263 --> 00:43:59,723 in the household? 1206 00:43:59,764 --> 00:44:01,099 Was it, "Don't fucking talk to me like that. 1207 00:44:01,141 --> 00:44:02,934 I'm the Sexiest Man Alive." 1208 00:44:02,976 --> 00:44:05,979 Where did you go mentally after the Sexiest Man Alive? 1209 00:44:06,021 --> 00:44:08,023 -I think -- I mean, I think there -- especially then, 1210 00:44:08,064 --> 00:44:09,441 I was younger. 1211 00:44:09,482 --> 00:44:11,401 I think there has to be some sense of, like, 1212 00:44:11,443 --> 00:44:12,944 "I'm the Sexiest Man Alive." 1213 00:44:12,986 --> 00:44:14,904 You go like, "Well, let me be modest about it." 1214 00:44:14,946 --> 00:44:16,781 But inside, you're like, "Am I the Sexiest --" 1215 00:44:16,823 --> 00:44:19,659 But I also knew it was like -- it was very much defining, like, 1216 00:44:19,701 --> 00:44:21,161 "Oh, it is all bullshit." 1217 00:44:21,202 --> 00:44:23,038 'Cause I know I'm not the sexiest man alive. 1218 00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:24,831 -I knew it was bullshit when they gave it to The Rock. 1219 00:44:24,873 --> 00:44:26,791 When they gave it to Dwayne, "It's fucking rigged." 1220 00:44:26,833 --> 00:44:28,960 -They gave it to Matt when he was 48. 1221 00:44:29,002 --> 00:44:30,503 I was like, "Let's call it." -It's fucking rigged. 1222 00:44:30,545 --> 00:44:31,921 -You guys should wrap this shit up 1223 00:44:31,963 --> 00:44:33,548 if you're just gonna be giving it away. 1224 00:44:33,590 --> 00:44:34,841 -It's fucking rigged. -I mean, come on. 1225 00:44:34,883 --> 00:44:36,134 -They gave it to Dwayne with his little 1226 00:44:36,176 --> 00:44:37,469 penis-shaped fucking head. 1227 00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:38,678 I knew it was rigged then. 1228 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,722 But you're a winner of it, 1229 00:44:40,764 --> 00:44:43,808 and I love that goes into your awards of all. 1230 00:44:43,850 --> 00:44:47,270 I love that although, talking about the good, 1231 00:44:47,312 --> 00:44:48,980 the bad, the ugly in the business, 1232 00:44:49,022 --> 00:44:53,401 I love that you sit here, man, as a polished, poised individual 1233 00:44:53,443 --> 00:44:55,403 full of fucking, like, experience. 1234 00:44:55,445 --> 00:44:58,323 -Thank you. -You are the definition of real 1235 00:44:58,365 --> 00:44:59,407 in our business. 1236 00:44:59,449 --> 00:45:02,077 You are the definition of, like, 1237 00:45:02,118 --> 00:45:05,455 real success on all fucking cylinders, 1238 00:45:05,497 --> 00:45:07,415 and that success can be mirrored 1239 00:45:07,457 --> 00:45:09,501 or matched with problems at times in your life. 1240 00:45:09,542 --> 00:45:11,002 But those problems did nothing 1241 00:45:11,044 --> 00:45:13,338 but set up the next level of success, man. 1242 00:45:13,380 --> 00:45:16,091 And you already wrote your story. 1243 00:45:16,132 --> 00:45:19,469 And the crazy thing is that you don't have a fucking ending yet. 1244 00:45:19,511 --> 00:45:22,305 And that ending you are going to determine. 1245 00:45:22,347 --> 00:45:24,099 And when you decide to step down, 1246 00:45:24,140 --> 00:45:26,142 you decide to say that, "This is it, 1247 00:45:26,184 --> 00:45:29,270 and I have done all that I want in this thing," 1248 00:45:29,312 --> 00:45:31,856 you are in control of that, period, 1249 00:45:31,898 --> 00:45:33,608 because you are in the point of your life 1250 00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:36,027 where you're navigating comfortably, to your point. 1251 00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:38,321 You don't worry about this, you don't worry about that 1252 00:45:38,363 --> 00:45:39,989 because you know how you're operating. 1253 00:45:40,031 --> 00:45:42,867 That's the best place. It's the best place. 1254 00:45:42,909 --> 00:45:45,662 -That's because I know what's meaningful to me. 1255 00:45:45,704 --> 00:45:47,205 It doesn't have be meaningful to everybody else. 1256 00:45:47,247 --> 00:45:49,791 Really, for me, actually, the meaning of my life 1257 00:45:49,833 --> 00:45:52,127 is going to be these kids, whether they write a literal 1258 00:45:52,168 --> 00:45:54,045 or a metaphorical book or my children write -- 1259 00:45:54,087 --> 00:45:56,506 That's really my story. Who do they -- 1260 00:45:56,548 --> 00:45:58,258 In their hearts, that's -- 1261 00:45:58,299 --> 00:46:00,593 The meaning of my life you will see manifest 1262 00:46:00,635 --> 00:46:03,930 and imbued in them, and that's just the truth, 1263 00:46:03,972 --> 00:46:06,725 because, you know, your children see you for everything 1264 00:46:06,766 --> 00:46:10,186 that you are, and you have this deep relationship with 1265 00:46:10,228 --> 00:46:11,730 how they're going to turn out 1266 00:46:11,771 --> 00:46:13,565 and be what kind of people they are. 1267 00:46:13,606 --> 00:46:17,569 And, like, I really am mindful of that every day. 1268 00:46:17,610 --> 00:46:19,154 And I think, like, every day I'm alive, 1269 00:46:19,195 --> 00:46:21,239 I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing by them, 1270 00:46:21,281 --> 00:46:22,782 making their lives better. 1271 00:46:22,824 --> 00:46:24,200 And it doesn't mean sometimes I don't come home 1272 00:46:24,242 --> 00:46:25,702 and they're like, you know, 1273 00:46:25,744 --> 00:46:27,120 I see that you've gone through some bullshit, 1274 00:46:27,162 --> 00:46:29,247 and I just -- it breaks my heart where I'm like, 1275 00:46:29,289 --> 00:46:33,418 this shit would never happen if, you know, I wasn't in this life. 1276 00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:35,086 And it's hard. 1277 00:46:35,128 --> 00:46:37,672 I really, really fucking second-guess it a lot. 1278 00:46:37,714 --> 00:46:41,718 But I also know I like this life for them 1279 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,595 better than the one that I had. 1280 00:46:43,636 --> 00:46:45,180 And that's the balance. 1281 00:46:45,221 --> 00:46:47,140 And I talk with Jennifer about that a lot as we look at, 1282 00:46:47,182 --> 00:46:49,059 what's the difference between our kids' lives? 1283 00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:51,686 I have five kids now, right? I have two stepkids, three kids. 1284 00:46:51,728 --> 00:46:52,896 What's the difference between their lives 1285 00:46:52,937 --> 00:46:54,397 and our lives growing up? 1286 00:46:54,439 --> 00:46:56,107 Forget about the whole, like, gen-- 1287 00:46:56,149 --> 00:46:58,109 like, how our parents just let us fucking roam and shit. 1288 00:46:58,151 --> 00:47:01,112 Like, "Be back in two days," you know, 1289 00:47:01,154 --> 00:47:03,615 but the whole experience is different. 1290 00:47:03,656 --> 00:47:05,325 And then they're growing up like -- 1291 00:47:05,367 --> 00:47:06,618 I didn't know any rich people. 1292 00:47:06,659 --> 00:47:08,244 I always thought that rich people, 1293 00:47:08,286 --> 00:47:09,913 they're out there somewhere. You know what I mean? 1294 00:47:09,954 --> 00:47:11,790 Like, with their shit. -I didn't get to see it. 1295 00:47:11,831 --> 00:47:13,625 -And you feel like, okay, now my kids, 1296 00:47:13,667 --> 00:47:15,210 that's like a burden. I've also put on them, 1297 00:47:15,251 --> 00:47:17,295 'cause that don't really mean shit. 1298 00:47:17,337 --> 00:47:19,756 Money didn't change my life at all except for the point 1299 00:47:19,798 --> 00:47:21,925 at which I could pay my bills. 1300 00:47:21,966 --> 00:47:23,635 That was it. That was a big deal. 1301 00:47:23,677 --> 00:47:25,303 That's no joke. 1302 00:47:25,345 --> 00:47:26,596 Can you keep the lights on? Can you pay your bills? 1303 00:47:26,638 --> 00:47:28,139 Can you pay your rent? 1304 00:47:28,181 --> 00:47:30,225 Are you not having anxiety all the fucking time? 1305 00:47:30,266 --> 00:47:33,687 After that, to me, it's like, alright, cool. 1306 00:47:33,728 --> 00:47:35,939 You know, it's nice, and I like nice shit, 1307 00:47:35,980 --> 00:47:38,400 but it's not a thing -- not worth chasing for. 1308 00:47:38,441 --> 00:47:39,651 You know what I mean? 1309 00:47:39,693 --> 00:47:40,652 And so I give this to my children. 1310 00:47:40,694 --> 00:47:42,112 I think, like, you know, 1311 00:47:42,153 --> 00:47:44,239 I was talking about my kids, I was like -- 1312 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,157 My daughter's always 1313 00:47:46,199 --> 00:47:47,867 throwing out titles for her autobiography 1314 00:47:47,909 --> 00:47:49,452 'cause I said this to her, of course. 1315 00:47:49,494 --> 00:47:51,162 You show them your weaknesses and they're like, 1316 00:47:51,204 --> 00:47:52,956 "Oh, let me poke that motherfucker for you." 1317 00:47:52,997 --> 00:47:55,750 She was like -- We went somewhere with Jen. 1318 00:47:55,792 --> 00:47:57,877 I can't remember, 'cause, you know, she's so famous 1319 00:47:57,919 --> 00:47:59,587 and she creates this -- People love her, 1320 00:47:59,629 --> 00:48:02,674 and she really represents something important to people. 1321 00:48:02,716 --> 00:48:04,634 You know, people are like, "Hey, I like your movie. 1322 00:48:04,676 --> 00:48:06,761 Aah! JLo!" 1323 00:48:06,803 --> 00:48:09,514 It's like -- It's amazing. You know what I mean? 1324 00:48:09,556 --> 00:48:11,808 I think it was when we rolled through Times Square. 1325 00:48:11,850 --> 00:48:13,852 We had to get out of the car. We were going to a play. 1326 00:48:13,893 --> 00:48:15,645 And I was like, "Fuck it, baby. We're gonna be late." 1327 00:48:15,687 --> 00:48:17,188 We had all the kids. 1328 00:48:17,230 --> 00:48:19,065 We're like, "We got to walk a block and a half." 1329 00:48:19,107 --> 00:48:20,608 She was like, "Alright." She didn't even say shit. 1330 00:48:20,650 --> 00:48:21,943 I was like, "Come on. We got to walk. 1331 00:48:21,985 --> 00:48:23,862 We got to go. Let's get out the car." 1332 00:48:23,903 --> 00:48:25,572 You know, you get impatient. Traffic's gonna be 10 minutes. 1333 00:48:25,613 --> 00:48:27,407 The show start in three minutes. Take us two minutes to walk. 1334 00:48:27,449 --> 00:48:30,618 Get out with her, all the kids through Times Square, 1335 00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:33,913 and the shit was like fucking bananas. 1336 00:48:33,955 --> 00:48:36,041 You know, and it was like the -- not even the mayor. 1337 00:48:36,082 --> 00:48:38,710 -And in the middle of it, you're going, "I fucked up." 1338 00:48:38,752 --> 00:48:41,212 -I was like, "Oh, my God. -"I fucked up." 1339 00:48:41,254 --> 00:48:44,090 -And there's a lady in a full, like, purple -- 1340 00:48:44,132 --> 00:48:46,217 You can see it on the Internet, somebody -- 1341 00:48:46,259 --> 00:48:47,552 She's smoking weed. 1342 00:48:47,594 --> 00:48:48,887 She's wearing a purple skintight suit. 1343 00:48:48,928 --> 00:48:51,097 She's big, heavy lady. And she sees. 1344 00:48:51,139 --> 00:48:54,225 She starts running backwards, filming, going, "JLo!" 1345 00:48:54,267 --> 00:48:57,103 It's like a herald that then gets everyone else. 1346 00:48:57,145 --> 00:48:59,481 And then they're all tourists, whatever, just woof! 1347 00:48:59,522 --> 00:49:00,815 Then I'm moving. 1348 00:49:00,857 --> 00:49:02,901 We got our five kids, me and Jen, 1349 00:49:02,942 --> 00:49:05,403 and it's like -- feels like hundreds of people. 1350 00:49:05,445 --> 00:49:06,780 And they're all screaming. 1351 00:49:06,821 --> 00:49:08,907 And my daughter just turns to me and goes, 1352 00:49:08,948 --> 00:49:10,408 "JLo Was My Stepmother." 1353 00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:12,243 I was like, "Alright, that's a good title." 1354 00:49:12,285 --> 00:49:14,746 Could be a lot worse than that. -She's got another title. 1355 00:49:14,788 --> 00:49:16,790 By the way, in that moment, you got to be oblivious to it 1356 00:49:16,831 --> 00:49:18,083 and act like it's all okay. 1357 00:49:18,124 --> 00:49:19,626 "Told you, baby, we'll be on time." 1358 00:49:19,668 --> 00:49:21,044 -That's when I put my bitch face on. 1359 00:49:21,086 --> 00:49:23,922 -Yes. And saying nothing else. 1360 00:49:23,963 --> 00:49:27,258 Ben, you were everything I thought you would be plus more, 1361 00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:31,137 and I know everybody that will watch this will think the same. 1362 00:49:31,179 --> 00:49:33,973 Hey, man, I know you. I know you. 1363 00:49:34,015 --> 00:49:37,936 And I can say that I'm honored to have had you 1364 00:49:37,977 --> 00:49:39,604 as a guest on this show. -I feel the same way. 1365 00:49:39,646 --> 00:49:42,232 -And, you know, I just love 1366 00:49:42,273 --> 00:49:45,193 that people will get to see you talk the way you talked today. 1367 00:49:45,235 --> 00:49:47,278 -I appreciate you giving me a chance to do this. 1368 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,114 -It's not something that you've done or that you do, man, 1369 00:49:49,155 --> 00:49:51,783 but you're just -- there's just so much, man. 1370 00:49:51,825 --> 00:49:55,286 There's so many layers to the fucking star of 1371 00:49:55,328 --> 00:49:58,373 and the guy and man that you've become. 1372 00:49:58,415 --> 00:49:59,833 -I'm glad you're doing this. 1373 00:49:59,874 --> 00:50:02,043 It's not like -- You're not getting well on this. 1374 00:50:02,085 --> 00:50:03,545 You know what I mean? You're doing this an act 1375 00:50:03,586 --> 00:50:04,963 of grace and sharing things. 1376 00:50:05,005 --> 00:50:06,548 It's kind of beautiful. 1377 00:50:06,589 --> 00:50:09,968 I wish I was courageous and forward-leaning like that, 1378 00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:11,636 because I have a lot of respect for it, 1379 00:50:11,678 --> 00:50:13,304 'cause I just -- the only reason I'm here is 'cause of you. 1380 00:50:13,346 --> 00:50:14,973 You do make me feel safe, and I like you. 1381 00:50:15,015 --> 00:50:16,558 And I feel, "Okay." 1382 00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:19,269 But, like, last time I did a voluntary talk show 1383 00:50:19,310 --> 00:50:20,812 was 21 years ago. 1384 00:50:20,854 --> 00:50:22,564 Like, I'm very, you know, "I don't want to go on, 1385 00:50:22,605 --> 00:50:24,399 and what am I gonna say wrong, and it's a minefield. 1386 00:50:24,441 --> 00:50:26,317 Let me try to get my joke get the fuck out of there. 1387 00:50:26,359 --> 00:50:27,861 Promote the movie." 1388 00:50:27,902 --> 00:50:29,988 And I just -- I'm like, "Let me just go home," you know, 1389 00:50:30,030 --> 00:50:32,657 but this has been a joy and a pleasure and a treat. 1390 00:50:32,699 --> 00:50:34,451 -You are in a safe place, man, 1391 00:50:34,492 --> 00:50:37,287 and this is gonna be one for the record books. 1392 00:50:37,328 --> 00:50:38,997 Ladies and gentlemen, this is "Hart to Heart." 1393 00:50:39,039 --> 00:50:40,832 That's Ben Affleck. Say hello. 1394 00:50:40,874 --> 00:50:43,084 [ Cheers and applause ] -Thank you. 1395 00:50:43,126 --> 00:50:45,295 [ Indistinct conversation ] 1396 00:50:45,337 --> 00:50:55,305 ** 1397 00:50:55,347 --> 00:51:05,357 **