1 00:00:06,881 --> 00:00:12,137 ** 2 00:00:12,178 --> 00:00:13,930 -When you talk about the world of comedy, 3 00:00:13,972 --> 00:00:15,515 my guest today is at the top -- 4 00:00:15,557 --> 00:00:17,183 and I do mean top -- of conversation. 5 00:00:17,225 --> 00:00:18,977 He has created, written, directed, and produced 6 00:00:19,019 --> 00:00:21,813 some of the most iconic comedy shows and films ever. 7 00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:23,773 Guys, I'm talking about "Anchorman," "Knocked Up," 8 00:00:23,815 --> 00:00:25,483 "Trainwreck," "The 40-Year-Old Virgin," 9 00:00:25,525 --> 00:00:27,360 "Freaks and Geeks," "Bridesmaids" -- 10 00:00:27,402 --> 00:00:29,195 I don't have time to name them all. 11 00:00:29,237 --> 00:00:31,156 He's a friend and honestly an inspiration. 12 00:00:31,197 --> 00:00:33,700 Please welcome Judd Apatow. 13 00:00:33,742 --> 00:00:35,201 Oh, man. -Oh, yeah. 14 00:00:35,243 --> 00:00:36,870 -Come here, come here. -Give me one of those. 15 00:00:36,911 --> 00:00:39,080 -No, get in there, get in there. -Oh, you work out, you work out. 16 00:00:39,122 --> 00:00:40,540 -I dowork out, Judd. -Yep. 17 00:00:40,582 --> 00:00:42,667 -How are you, man? -I'm well. 18 00:00:42,709 --> 00:00:45,128 -Do you think I should have went with more titles in the intro? 19 00:00:45,170 --> 00:00:46,254 -You know, it gets weird, it gets weird. 20 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,589 -Like if I'd have kept going. 21 00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:49,382 -It's enough of the memoriam video. 22 00:00:49,424 --> 00:00:50,925 -Okay. -That's how you know 23 00:00:50,967 --> 00:00:52,385 you've done enough. You're like, "That would be 24 00:00:52,427 --> 00:00:56,264 a good, chunky memoriam video." 25 00:00:56,306 --> 00:00:58,391 -I want to say thank you, of course, 26 00:00:58,433 --> 00:01:01,144 for coming on, talking to me. 27 00:01:01,186 --> 00:01:02,812 And this is a special episode for me 28 00:01:02,854 --> 00:01:05,440 because I'm talking to an individual 29 00:01:05,482 --> 00:01:08,985 that I feel from birthed the real side of creativity for me. 30 00:01:09,027 --> 00:01:10,570 This is a dope moment for me 31 00:01:10,612 --> 00:01:12,447 because it's a full-circle moment 32 00:01:12,489 --> 00:01:13,907 where not only get to say thank you, but I truly get to 33 00:01:13,948 --> 00:01:15,909 embrace you and give you flowers in real time, 34 00:01:15,950 --> 00:01:18,870 so this is gonna be dope, and we're gonna drink some wine. 35 00:01:18,912 --> 00:01:20,997 That's what we do here, Judd. -And we'll be drunk? 36 00:01:21,039 --> 00:01:23,833 We'll be drunk during it? -Well, I may be, right? 37 00:01:23,875 --> 00:01:25,418 I get a little, you know -- 38 00:01:25,460 --> 00:01:27,379 -You have a tequila. -I do have a tequila, 39 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:28,797 but I drink wine on here. If I drink tequila, 40 00:01:28,838 --> 00:01:30,215 I wouldn't be able to finish it. 41 00:01:30,256 --> 00:01:31,925 -I'm trying to help you plug the tequila. 42 00:01:31,966 --> 00:01:33,927 -Well, yeah, I can do it but I can't finish the interviews. 43 00:01:33,968 --> 00:01:35,929 D, come on in, D. 44 00:01:35,970 --> 00:01:37,681 I wouldn't be able to finish the interviews if I did the tequila. 45 00:01:37,722 --> 00:01:39,599 -I nurse drinks. -What does that mean? 46 00:01:39,641 --> 00:01:41,726 -I'm one of those people, like, you'll give me, 47 00:01:41,768 --> 00:01:44,354 you know, a drink, and then like six hours later, 48 00:01:44,396 --> 00:01:46,439 it's down to there. -You don't drink because 49 00:01:46,481 --> 00:01:48,108 you just -- you're a lightweight? 50 00:01:48,149 --> 00:01:49,776 -Well, I don't need much to enjoy myself. 51 00:01:49,818 --> 00:01:52,320 -I got ya, I do. What am I drinking, D? 52 00:01:52,362 --> 00:01:55,448 -Mr. Hart, Mr. Apatow, lots of history here, 53 00:01:55,490 --> 00:01:57,283 history dating back to the 17th century. 54 00:01:57,325 --> 00:01:59,369 South African Pinot Noir from Overberg. 55 00:01:59,411 --> 00:02:00,912 -Ooh! -Yes, you're gonna love this. 56 00:02:00,954 --> 00:02:04,416 2022, just released. -Overberg, South African. 57 00:02:04,457 --> 00:02:08,294 Come on now, come on now. [ Laughs ] 58 00:02:08,336 --> 00:02:09,963 Yeah! -Bright, fresh, clean. 59 00:02:10,005 --> 00:02:12,048 Lots of great acid that will carry you through. 60 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:13,466 -It will carry me through. -Enjoy. 61 00:02:13,508 --> 00:02:15,218 -See that? -Enjoy your wonderful coffee. 62 00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:17,554 -There you go. Judd, cheers, coffee or not. 63 00:02:17,595 --> 00:02:19,347 Whether you drink wine or not, cheers. 64 00:02:19,389 --> 00:02:21,474 Judd, where do I start? -I mean, I would have taken 65 00:02:21,516 --> 00:02:23,143 the wine. I mean... -You would have taken it? 66 00:02:23,184 --> 00:02:25,061 -I mean, I would do both. I'd do caffeine and wine. 67 00:02:25,103 --> 00:02:27,313 -Well, are you gonna nurse it or are you gonna drink it? 68 00:02:27,355 --> 00:02:29,232 You're more than welcome to have wine, Judd. 69 00:02:29,274 --> 00:02:30,734 This is a very comfortable environment. 70 00:02:30,775 --> 00:02:32,485 D, can we get a glass? Judd wants some wine. 71 00:02:32,527 --> 00:02:34,237 -Yeah, we'll get both. -Let's get him a glass. 72 00:02:34,279 --> 00:02:35,989 He's gonna do both. -Yes. 73 00:02:36,031 --> 00:02:37,741 -See what I'm saying? This is a comfortable environment, Judd. 74 00:02:37,782 --> 00:02:39,492 You want the wine, I'll get you the fucking wine. 75 00:02:39,534 --> 00:02:40,660 -You always come through. 76 00:02:40,702 --> 00:02:42,704 -That's what I do here. -Yeah. 77 00:02:42,746 --> 00:02:45,081 -Now, here's where I'm gonna start. 78 00:02:45,123 --> 00:02:51,379 I wanna go back to the real discovery of Judd Apatow for me. 79 00:02:51,421 --> 00:02:53,340 My manager, Dave Becky -- 80 00:02:53,381 --> 00:02:57,469 this is, like, the first big audition that I felt 81 00:02:57,510 --> 00:02:59,512 like I had an opportunity to have. 82 00:02:59,554 --> 00:03:01,723 And Dave Becky calls me, and he's like, 83 00:03:01,765 --> 00:03:03,975 "You got an opportunity to get in front of a guy 84 00:03:04,017 --> 00:03:06,686 in this town that everybody wants to work with, 85 00:03:06,728 --> 00:03:12,984 and right now, he has his pulse and hand on the people 86 00:03:13,026 --> 00:03:16,488 and the ideas that all the studios feel they want and need. 87 00:03:16,529 --> 00:03:18,907 He wants to meet you in real time." 88 00:03:18,948 --> 00:03:19,991 Nice score, D. 89 00:03:20,033 --> 00:03:22,786 Give him a little taste. 90 00:03:22,827 --> 00:03:24,746 You don't have to pour much 'cause he's a lightweight. 91 00:03:24,788 --> 00:03:26,539 -But not today. 92 00:03:26,581 --> 00:03:28,166 I feel like it's all gonna change today. 93 00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:29,834 -It's all gonna change. Nothing would make me happier. 94 00:03:29,876 --> 00:03:31,461 -Thank you. -Nothing would make me happier 95 00:03:31,503 --> 00:03:34,381 if Judd got drunk and shit. [ Laughs ] 96 00:03:34,422 --> 00:03:35,924 -Let see where it goes. -Let's see. 97 00:03:35,965 --> 00:03:37,717 -Let's see where it goes. Let's light the fuse. 98 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:39,678 -Dave tells me I got a chance to get in front of you. 99 00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:41,513 I come out to Los Angeles, I meet you, 100 00:03:41,554 --> 00:03:45,975 I audition, and you end up giving me my first pilot 101 00:03:46,017 --> 00:03:52,232 and my first real experience of a booked gig in Hollywood. 102 00:03:52,273 --> 00:03:53,566 And doing it, you're not aware 103 00:03:53,608 --> 00:03:55,568 of how fast life happened for me. 104 00:03:55,610 --> 00:03:58,530 I booked the series, or the pilot. 105 00:03:58,571 --> 00:04:00,949 I came out. You guys got me, like, a rental car. 106 00:04:00,990 --> 00:04:04,744 I had, like, a hotel. I'm, like, in Hollywood, 107 00:04:04,786 --> 00:04:07,580 and, you know, there's per diem, so I'm spending, like, the money 108 00:04:07,622 --> 00:04:10,959 that I'm getting a day, and I'm like, oh, shit. 109 00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:13,545 Like, this is real, I'm going to the lot. 110 00:04:13,586 --> 00:04:15,588 We're doing rehearsals, and it's me, 111 00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:18,925 Amy Poehler, Jason Segel, 112 00:04:18,967 --> 00:04:22,595 and you put together this amazing group of, like, talent 113 00:04:22,637 --> 00:04:26,266 that nobody knew would be and was, of course, then, 114 00:04:26,307 --> 00:04:27,934 but you had us in rooms rehearsing 115 00:04:27,976 --> 00:04:30,729 and I remember you watching and analyzing everything. 116 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:32,856 But you embraced the world of, like, improv. 117 00:04:32,897 --> 00:04:36,359 You embraced the world of the talent being creative. 118 00:04:36,401 --> 00:04:39,446 My question for you is as a producer, 119 00:04:39,487 --> 00:04:42,699 where most that write wanna control the words 120 00:04:42,741 --> 00:04:45,702 and wanna really, like, have a true hold on what you're saying 121 00:04:45,744 --> 00:04:47,787 and how you're saying it, 122 00:04:47,829 --> 00:04:50,957 why have you always found so much comfort in the discovery 123 00:04:50,999 --> 00:04:53,626 of what the talent is willing to bring to the table? 124 00:04:53,668 --> 00:04:55,712 -Well, I'm trying to dig deep, you know, 125 00:04:55,754 --> 00:04:59,507 in myself for the comedy, for the story, 126 00:04:59,549 --> 00:05:01,676 for the essence of what we're talking about, 127 00:05:01,718 --> 00:05:03,636 and there's a lot of collaborators. 128 00:05:03,678 --> 00:05:06,431 So I always feel like if I said no to everyone else, 129 00:05:06,473 --> 00:05:07,766 then it's only me. 130 00:05:07,807 --> 00:05:09,642 Then you're just playing some version 131 00:05:09,684 --> 00:05:11,978 of something I thought of, and I want to get to your truth. 132 00:05:12,020 --> 00:05:13,813 I'm trying to figure out, you know, 133 00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:17,317 what you can contribute to a character, to a story, 134 00:05:17,359 --> 00:05:20,820 and, you know, I find that people have so much to give. 135 00:05:20,862 --> 00:05:23,114 Why would you ever want to shut it down? 136 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:27,160 Even on that project, so much of it was about things 137 00:05:27,202 --> 00:05:30,246 that yousaid. So the idea for that pilot, 138 00:05:30,288 --> 00:05:31,790 which was called "North Hollywood," 139 00:05:31,831 --> 00:05:33,375 was young people trying to break into Hollywood. 140 00:05:33,416 --> 00:05:35,001 -Yes. -And they live in 141 00:05:35,043 --> 00:05:37,962 North Hollywood, not Hollywood. It's not going great. 142 00:05:38,004 --> 00:05:41,424 And your character dreamed of being Chris Tucker. 143 00:05:41,466 --> 00:05:43,468 -Yes. -But that was all from you. 144 00:05:43,510 --> 00:05:45,428 -Mm-hmm. -You said, "I wanna be 145 00:05:45,470 --> 00:05:49,015 in 'Beverly Hills Cop' 4 or 5." 146 00:05:49,057 --> 00:05:50,684 -I wanted the movies. I wanted the life. 147 00:05:50,725 --> 00:05:53,144 I wanted the big side of the comedy. 148 00:05:53,186 --> 00:05:55,772 But you took those real anecdotes, of course, 149 00:05:55,814 --> 00:05:57,565 embedded them into the story. 150 00:05:57,607 --> 00:05:59,442 I think what you've always done well 151 00:05:59,484 --> 00:06:03,196 was ground reality in whatever it was that you were creating. 152 00:06:03,238 --> 00:06:06,574 And even the things that had, like, an extensive 153 00:06:06,616 --> 00:06:08,827 or broad approach to the laugh, 154 00:06:08,868 --> 00:06:12,372 it was still grounded within character, but -- 155 00:06:12,414 --> 00:06:14,541 -But you pitched your vision 156 00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:18,211 for your entire career in that pilot. 157 00:06:18,253 --> 00:06:19,963 -Yes. -So we would do improvs 158 00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:21,881 and you would tell the other characters, "Here's my dream." 159 00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:23,633 -Yes. -And it wasyour dream. 160 00:06:23,675 --> 00:06:25,218 Even though you were joking, you were like, 161 00:06:25,260 --> 00:06:28,555 "I wanna do 'Beverly Hills Cop' where I'm his nephew, 162 00:06:28,596 --> 00:06:29,973 and he's Scooby-Doo, I'm Scrappy-Doo." 163 00:06:30,015 --> 00:06:31,516 -Yeah. -Right? And you pitched 164 00:06:31,558 --> 00:06:33,727 the movie of how it would look. 165 00:06:33,768 --> 00:06:35,895 Like, you talked about like, "I'm like Chris Tucker 166 00:06:35,937 --> 00:06:37,981 but you can understand me, you can't understand him." 167 00:06:38,023 --> 00:06:41,401 And so that's, for me, amazing to watch 168 00:06:41,443 --> 00:06:43,069 'cause you manifested it... -Early on. 169 00:06:43,111 --> 00:06:45,447 -...early on. You had the dream and you made it come true, 170 00:06:45,488 --> 00:06:50,785 but it's also funny to see a young guy filled with energy 171 00:06:50,827 --> 00:06:53,580 dreaming big, 'cause it seems crazy 172 00:06:53,621 --> 00:06:55,081 to go, "I'm gonna be Eddie Murphy." 173 00:06:55,123 --> 00:06:57,584 -It's -- Not only does it seem crazy, 174 00:06:57,625 --> 00:07:00,795 it is crazy when you're saying it around people 175 00:07:00,837 --> 00:07:02,672 that may or may not believe the vision. 176 00:07:02,714 --> 00:07:04,591 -Yeah. -Right? Like, when you're 177 00:07:04,632 --> 00:07:06,593 saying it, it can sound ridiculous 178 00:07:06,634 --> 00:07:07,969 when you're with a group of people 179 00:07:08,011 --> 00:07:09,596 that are just like, "What -- huh? 180 00:07:09,637 --> 00:07:12,140 You? Gonna be what? Or want to do what?" 181 00:07:12,182 --> 00:07:15,268 When you're amongst a group of dreamers that are like, 182 00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:18,229 "Oh, that would be cool, or you possibly can," 183 00:07:18,271 --> 00:07:19,898 it hits different. Right? 184 00:07:19,939 --> 00:07:23,234 What you did was, you incentivized the dream. 185 00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:26,363 And when I look at you and I look at the surrounding, 186 00:07:26,404 --> 00:07:31,659 you know, you are like a portal 187 00:07:31,701 --> 00:07:36,664 for discovered talent that would come, 188 00:07:36,706 --> 00:07:39,459 find a voice, find confidence, 189 00:07:39,501 --> 00:07:42,087 and then somehow go on to become. 190 00:07:42,128 --> 00:07:43,672 When you go back, Judd, and you start to, like, 191 00:07:43,713 --> 00:07:45,632 really table and look at the stars 192 00:07:45,674 --> 00:07:47,634 that have come from underneath your belt, 193 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:50,053 I mean, the list is significantly long, right? 194 00:07:50,095 --> 00:07:53,014 When you go -- I'll start just for me because I'm here -- 195 00:07:53,056 --> 00:07:56,601 you had Kevin Hart, you got Jason Segel, 196 00:07:56,643 --> 00:08:00,063 you got Seth Rogen, you got James Franco, 197 00:08:00,105 --> 00:08:04,984 you got Jonah Hill, you have Charlie Hunnam, 198 00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:08,530 you have -- let me go down the women now -- 199 00:08:08,571 --> 00:08:11,741 from the "Freaks and Geeks"... 200 00:08:11,783 --> 00:08:13,034 -Well, the great Linda Cardellini. 201 00:08:13,076 --> 00:08:15,787 -Linda Cardellini, January Jones. 202 00:08:15,829 --> 00:08:17,706 -January Jones was in "North Hollywood," the pilot. 203 00:08:17,747 --> 00:08:19,040 -She was in "North Hollywood," the pilot. 204 00:08:19,082 --> 00:08:20,709 -Yeah. Busy Phillips was in the -- 205 00:08:20,750 --> 00:08:23,169 -Busy Phillips. I mean, you literally have -- 206 00:08:23,211 --> 00:08:26,965 you've touched, like, a real strong portion 207 00:08:27,007 --> 00:08:30,719 of what made Hollywood, like, a lot of money. 208 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,847 Like, that group, 209 00:08:33,888 --> 00:08:36,516 those people, that talent went on to do amazing things, 210 00:08:36,558 --> 00:08:38,935 but they also went on to create, to produce, to write, 211 00:08:38,977 --> 00:08:41,521 and that happened underneath your umbrella. 212 00:08:41,563 --> 00:08:45,859 Like, that's the part that always made me go, "Holy shit." 213 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:49,362 I remember we were working on "Undeclared," 214 00:08:49,404 --> 00:08:52,115 and Seth was a writer. 215 00:08:52,157 --> 00:08:53,950 -Yeah, he was 18. -He was 18 216 00:08:53,992 --> 00:08:55,744 and he was writing scripts. Like, what -- 217 00:08:55,785 --> 00:08:57,078 how does that happen for you, 218 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,789 where the business is so, like -- 219 00:08:59,831 --> 00:09:03,043 it's so strong on, "I need those with the résumés, 220 00:09:03,084 --> 00:09:05,628 the experience, I need the people that are gonna come, 221 00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:07,047 that have had success, to come here 222 00:09:07,088 --> 00:09:08,715 so I can ultimately have this success"? 223 00:09:08,757 --> 00:09:12,344 You were confident in those that didn't have it yet 224 00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:13,845 and their ability. Like, why? 225 00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:16,681 Why were you so trusting at that point in them 226 00:09:16,723 --> 00:09:18,725 and just you and your process? 227 00:09:18,767 --> 00:09:20,477 -I think it kinda snuck up on me. 228 00:09:20,518 --> 00:09:22,645 You know, Paul Feig and I -- 229 00:09:22,687 --> 00:09:23,938 Paul who created "Freaks and Geeks" 230 00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:25,565 and Jake Kasdan, who directed the pilot, 231 00:09:25,607 --> 00:09:27,400 we would do all these auditions for "Freaks and Geeks" 232 00:09:27,442 --> 00:09:30,570 and we thought it should be real people, 233 00:09:30,612 --> 00:09:32,072 and so some of them might be actors, 234 00:09:32,113 --> 00:09:33,740 but maybe some of them are people 235 00:09:33,782 --> 00:09:35,575 who don't even think they could be actors, 236 00:09:35,617 --> 00:09:38,953 that the world of Hollywood wouldn't accept them. 237 00:09:38,995 --> 00:09:40,997 And we thought that's what would make it real 238 00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:42,874 is if some of the actors are the type of people 239 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:45,210 you don't even see on TV. 240 00:09:45,251 --> 00:09:50,006 And I think we were surprised at how amazing mot of them were, 241 00:09:50,048 --> 00:09:52,592 and that made us realize, oh, you don't have to be 242 00:09:52,634 --> 00:09:55,512 an Oscar winner to be incredible 243 00:09:55,553 --> 00:09:57,931 if you can just catch the real spirit of somebody 244 00:09:57,972 --> 00:10:00,684 and you can find an interesting person or someone 245 00:10:00,725 --> 00:10:03,103 who's funny or has something to say. 246 00:10:03,144 --> 00:10:05,939 And then I think later in my career, 247 00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:07,482 the truth is a lot of people who were very successful 248 00:10:07,524 --> 00:10:09,234 weren't available. 249 00:10:09,275 --> 00:10:11,111 You know, you'd write something for someone, 250 00:10:11,152 --> 00:10:13,947 and then they would either say no a lot of the time, 251 00:10:13,988 --> 00:10:17,117 or, "I'm not available," and so you'd go, oh, 252 00:10:17,158 --> 00:10:19,744 I guess I'll find somebody who is available. 253 00:10:19,786 --> 00:10:21,996 And who is available? 21-year-old Kevin Hart. 254 00:10:22,038 --> 00:10:23,331 -Yeah. -He's totally available. 255 00:10:23,373 --> 00:10:25,959 He'll kill to do a good job. -Yeah. 256 00:10:26,001 --> 00:10:29,295 -And there's a certain passion when you're really young 257 00:10:29,337 --> 00:10:31,131 that we all don't have. 258 00:10:31,172 --> 00:10:34,843 You know, that like 20-30 era, you're a crazy person. 259 00:10:34,884 --> 00:10:36,636 -Yeah, yeah. -You're up all night, 260 00:10:36,678 --> 00:10:38,722 punching every joke, losing your mind 261 00:10:38,763 --> 00:10:40,223 trying to make it special. 262 00:10:40,265 --> 00:10:43,184 And we all learn craft and we care, 263 00:10:43,226 --> 00:10:46,312 but there's a moment where you're kind of insane, 264 00:10:46,354 --> 00:10:49,065 and that's why you break through because the part of your brain 265 00:10:49,107 --> 00:10:50,817 that's like, "It's impossible to break through" 266 00:10:50,859 --> 00:10:52,652 does not exist. -Wow. 267 00:10:52,694 --> 00:10:55,613 Judd, let me stop you for a second so we can take a break. 268 00:10:55,655 --> 00:10:57,991 Guys, we're gonna come back with more "Hart to Heart" 269 00:10:58,033 --> 00:11:00,493 after this with Judd Apatow. 270 00:11:00,535 --> 00:11:03,496 -You can connect directly with people in the crowd, too. 271 00:11:03,538 --> 00:11:08,168 ** 272 00:11:08,209 --> 00:11:11,129 -* It doesn't take me long, baby * 273 00:11:11,171 --> 00:11:13,715 * Come in and just talk, no prep, make it happen * 274 00:11:13,757 --> 00:11:16,843 * And I get wet like a toilet paper... * 275 00:11:16,885 --> 00:11:24,184 ** 276 00:11:28,730 --> 00:11:32,650 ** 277 00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:34,069 -Judd for camera. 278 00:11:34,110 --> 00:11:36,196 -God damn it, Judd, will you come on?! 279 00:11:36,237 --> 00:11:39,032 I said 10 minutes. Look, it's 3:10. Let's go! 280 00:11:40,450 --> 00:11:42,744 I said 10 minutes. Exactly 10 minutes. 281 00:11:43,328 --> 00:11:46,623 That's how long it took. 10 minutes it took you. 282 00:11:46,664 --> 00:11:48,041 Welcome back to "Hart to Heart." 283 00:11:48,083 --> 00:11:49,501 We're still talking to Judd Apatow. 284 00:11:49,542 --> 00:11:53,129 So, which version of you do you feel 285 00:11:53,171 --> 00:11:55,298 got, like, the biggest, like, 286 00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:57,425 "Oh, he's gonna be the guy"? 287 00:11:57,467 --> 00:12:00,345 Like, who gave you the, 288 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:02,764 "Judd, you know what you can do? 289 00:12:02,806 --> 00:12:06,643 I want you to do this with me." Like, who acted as your, like -- 290 00:12:06,685 --> 00:12:11,147 your bridge to the next stage and to the progression 291 00:12:11,189 --> 00:12:13,358 of where you now are in your career? 292 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,276 Like, in that early side, where did it come from? 293 00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:17,529 -Well, one thing I was thinking while you were saying that 294 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:19,656 is I think, like, when you're young, 295 00:12:19,698 --> 00:12:24,494 you don't feel like you're the successful person, right? 296 00:12:24,536 --> 00:12:26,371 So all your friends are a version of you. 297 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:28,540 -Okay. -You're just trying to break in, 298 00:12:28,581 --> 00:12:30,208 and you believe in your friends Like, "Oh, my God. 299 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:31,543 My friend's the funniest person ever." 300 00:12:31,584 --> 00:12:32,961 -Yeah. -And then as you start doing 301 00:12:33,003 --> 00:12:35,338 better, I still feel like 302 00:12:35,380 --> 00:12:37,882 one of those people who's trying to break in. 303 00:12:37,924 --> 00:12:39,592 -Okay. -So I always feel like 304 00:12:39,634 --> 00:12:42,053 that's the space that I'm in. -Okay. 305 00:12:42,095 --> 00:12:43,722 -I want to stay in that space 306 00:12:43,763 --> 00:12:46,224 where everyone I believe in hasn't made it yet. 307 00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:50,145 So when I started, I lived with Sandler for awhile. 308 00:12:50,186 --> 00:12:51,896 Rob Schneider lived across the street. 309 00:12:51,938 --> 00:12:53,481 David Spade lived down the street. 310 00:12:53,523 --> 00:12:56,526 I would drive over the hill to Jim Carrey's house 311 00:12:56,568 --> 00:13:00,905 to help him with stuff -- jokes, sketches for "In Living Color." 312 00:13:00,947 --> 00:13:02,323 And I was the one person that was like, 313 00:13:02,365 --> 00:13:03,908 "I'll help you write your jokes." 314 00:13:03,950 --> 00:13:05,452 See, everyone wanted to be a star, 315 00:13:05,493 --> 00:13:07,746 so no one wanted to write jokes for anybody else. 316 00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:09,414 -Yeah. -I thought, I need to 317 00:13:09,456 --> 00:13:12,500 pay my rent, so if I can get a comedian 318 00:13:12,542 --> 00:13:15,920 to give me 50 bucks a joke to help, 319 00:13:15,962 --> 00:13:17,464 that's the best job in the world, 320 00:13:17,505 --> 00:13:20,425 and not many comedians wanted to do that. 321 00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:22,093 -Well, why were you okay with that? 322 00:13:22,135 --> 00:13:24,763 Like, what did that -- you know, early on, 323 00:13:24,804 --> 00:13:26,598 I mean, the ego is supposed to be present 324 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:28,433 in the beginning of the career. -Yeah. See, that's where 325 00:13:28,475 --> 00:13:31,019 my lack of ego worked, 'cause I think I always thought, 326 00:13:31,061 --> 00:13:32,771 well, I'm not gonna be Jim Carrey. 327 00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:36,524 But I can't believe I get to sit with Jim Carrey and help him. 328 00:13:36,566 --> 00:13:38,360 -Wow. -I didn't have -- I wasn't 329 00:13:38,401 --> 00:13:40,445 competitive with everyone because I think in my gut, 330 00:13:40,487 --> 00:13:42,781 I'm like, we all loved Bill Murray. 331 00:13:42,822 --> 00:13:44,366 We loved Eddie Murphy. 332 00:13:44,407 --> 00:13:46,242 I think the idea in my own head -- 333 00:13:46,284 --> 00:13:49,871 "oh, I'm gonna be like them" -- disappeared very quickly, 334 00:13:49,913 --> 00:13:51,873 but I loved to hang. 335 00:13:51,915 --> 00:13:54,125 I loved that it made people happy to get jokes. 336 00:13:54,167 --> 00:13:55,710 I loved that I could get paid. 337 00:13:55,752 --> 00:13:58,505 And I felt like, I love what they're doing so much, 338 00:13:58,546 --> 00:14:02,133 it's so fun to see them succeed. -I was gonna say, 339 00:14:02,175 --> 00:14:03,885 when you talk about Jim Carrey, you know, 340 00:14:03,927 --> 00:14:07,389 in the "In Living Color" days, like, Jim Carrey's success on 341 00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:09,974 "On Living Color" was astronomical. 342 00:14:10,016 --> 00:14:11,393 -And to sit with Jim, and Jim's like, 343 00:14:11,434 --> 00:14:13,311 "I have this idea for this character, 344 00:14:13,353 --> 00:14:17,565 Vera de Milo, and it's kind of like a Conan the Barbarian 345 00:14:17,607 --> 00:14:20,777 and I'm in this little bikini and I fight 346 00:14:20,819 --> 00:14:25,657 in these, you know, Medieval type of things" -- 347 00:14:25,699 --> 00:14:27,075 -The voice. 348 00:14:27,117 --> 00:14:28,660 I know exactly who you're talking about. 349 00:14:28,702 --> 00:14:30,954 I know exactly -- he had the hair, like, in the two 350 00:14:30,995 --> 00:14:33,081 pigtail things with -- yes. 351 00:14:33,123 --> 00:14:34,791 -And so he goes, "You want to sit down and try 352 00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:37,919 and write a draft with me?" So when they would shoot it, 353 00:14:37,961 --> 00:14:39,504 it was literally the most exciting thing 354 00:14:39,546 --> 00:14:41,297 that had ever happened in my life, and I sat in his -- 355 00:14:41,339 --> 00:14:43,216 -You got to see it come to life. 356 00:14:43,258 --> 00:14:45,385 -And Jim is the best ever, right? 357 00:14:45,427 --> 00:14:47,512 So you go, it's not just that, 358 00:14:47,554 --> 00:14:49,180 it's like, there's Jim and you're helping him out. 359 00:14:49,222 --> 00:14:51,016 He writes most of it 'cause he's a genius, 360 00:14:51,057 --> 00:14:52,976 but you're kinda getting him going 361 00:14:53,018 --> 00:14:55,145 'cause you're so enthusiastic and you make a contribution, 362 00:14:55,186 --> 00:14:57,897 but then he does it and it is a 10. 363 00:14:57,939 --> 00:15:01,693 And that, to me, was always even more exciting 364 00:15:01,735 --> 00:15:03,486 than me having a good set. 365 00:15:03,528 --> 00:15:04,988 -Look at the names you just said. 366 00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:06,740 You're talking about David Spade. 367 00:15:06,781 --> 00:15:08,575 You're talking about Jim Carrey. 368 00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:10,410 -Well, I didn't write for Spade. 369 00:15:10,452 --> 00:15:11,870 -You didn't write for Spade, but they -- 370 00:15:11,911 --> 00:15:15,582 just the names, I'm just saying, the environment. 371 00:15:15,623 --> 00:15:19,085 -Yeah, that was the group, and also there was a feeling, 372 00:15:19,127 --> 00:15:22,213 like, I think everyone's gonna bust through. 373 00:15:22,255 --> 00:15:23,923 Like, I know we all just had a confidence. 374 00:15:23,965 --> 00:15:27,385 It was more like we don't know when it's gonna happen, 375 00:15:27,427 --> 00:15:28,803 we don't know how it's gonna happen, 376 00:15:28,845 --> 00:15:30,889 but it seems like everyone's gonna work. 377 00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:34,392 -Who else at that time were you writing with or for? 378 00:15:34,434 --> 00:15:36,644 -One of the first people I wrote for was George Wallace. 379 00:15:36,686 --> 00:15:38,438 -Wow. -And George Wallace said, 380 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,900 "Judd, I have two types of jokes -- stupid shit, 381 00:15:41,941 --> 00:15:43,401 things I don't understand." 382 00:15:43,443 --> 00:15:45,070 And then he goes, "Wait. There's a third category. 383 00:15:45,111 --> 00:15:46,654 What if I was president?" 384 00:15:46,696 --> 00:15:49,824 And so I sat down and wrote jokes like that, 385 00:15:49,866 --> 00:15:52,660 and he's the nicest man in the world and the funniest, 386 00:15:52,702 --> 00:15:55,497 the one person at The Improv that was always nice to us 387 00:15:55,538 --> 00:15:57,582 when we were nobody. -George Wallace. 388 00:15:57,624 --> 00:16:00,794 -Then I wrote some jokes for Taylor Negron. 389 00:16:00,835 --> 00:16:03,254 I got a job writing for Dennis Miller, 390 00:16:03,296 --> 00:16:06,758 who was doing a HBO pre-game show 391 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,719 to "Paul Simon Live in Central Park," 392 00:16:09,761 --> 00:16:13,348 and so there was a half hour Dennis Miller hosting 393 00:16:13,390 --> 00:16:15,600 and talking about the history of Paul Simon. 394 00:16:15,642 --> 00:16:20,772 And, you know, Dennis was unbelievable at that moment. 395 00:16:20,814 --> 00:16:23,233 -Is this all word of mouth, like, "Oh, Judd's a good" -- 396 00:16:23,274 --> 00:16:25,276 like, how were you finding yourself -- 397 00:16:25,318 --> 00:16:27,987 -Well, I'm in the clubs and I know people. 398 00:16:28,029 --> 00:16:31,074 My manager, Jimmy Miller -- Dennis Miller's brother -- 399 00:16:31,116 --> 00:16:33,284 he was helping find me work 400 00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:34,744 and he would, like, tell people, like, 401 00:16:34,786 --> 00:16:36,454 "You should let Judd write jokes for you." 402 00:16:36,496 --> 00:16:38,164 But everyone needed jokes, 403 00:16:38,206 --> 00:16:41,876 so it wasn't, like, the hardest gigs to get 404 00:16:41,918 --> 00:16:43,503 because there actually weren't many people 405 00:16:43,545 --> 00:16:45,797 out there attempting that. 406 00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:48,717 I was reading an article where you were talking about Lucien, 407 00:16:48,758 --> 00:16:51,344 who booked The Comic Strip, who told you... 408 00:16:51,386 --> 00:16:52,846 -Told me -- -...quit. 409 00:16:52,887 --> 00:16:55,890 -He told me -- Lucien, rest in peace, Lucien. 410 00:16:55,932 --> 00:16:58,727 I don't want to say anything bad about him, 411 00:16:58,768 --> 00:17:02,313 but Lucien told me that I gotta make another choice, 412 00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:04,441 He said, "You got the wrong thing, man. 413 00:17:04,482 --> 00:17:06,943 You need to go find you a job." His exact words to me -- 414 00:17:06,985 --> 00:17:09,654 "You have to go find you a regular job 415 00:17:09,696 --> 00:17:11,489 because comedy is not for you." 416 00:17:11,531 --> 00:17:13,533 -Which, the lesson of that, which is so important 417 00:17:13,575 --> 00:17:17,412 for people, is here's a guy -- he's just a guy, right? 418 00:17:17,454 --> 00:17:18,997 You know, we all have different tastes. 419 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:21,332 Like, if we had a club, we would let in different people 420 00:17:21,374 --> 00:17:23,293 to be the performers, right? -Yes. 421 00:17:23,335 --> 00:17:26,880 -And Lucien's somebody helped discover Rock, 422 00:17:26,921 --> 00:17:28,465 helped discover Sandler, 423 00:17:28,506 --> 00:17:31,676 and he's just completelywrong about you, 424 00:17:31,718 --> 00:17:34,804 and I'm always, like, explaining this to people 425 00:17:34,846 --> 00:17:38,767 that the best people are completely wrong all the time. 426 00:17:38,808 --> 00:17:41,394 So the fact that that doesn't throw you, 427 00:17:41,436 --> 00:17:43,521 or didn't throw you at the time, 428 00:17:43,563 --> 00:17:45,565 I mean, that's a secret to everything, that you can go, 429 00:17:45,607 --> 00:17:47,984 you know what? I'm gonna keep powering forward. He's wrong. 430 00:17:48,026 --> 00:17:49,694 -You know what it was, Judd? 431 00:17:49,736 --> 00:17:52,489 It didn't bother me to where I got angry. 432 00:17:52,530 --> 00:17:54,699 It was actually funny to me. 433 00:17:54,741 --> 00:17:59,954 It was funny that somebody felt that they were that, like -- 434 00:17:59,996 --> 00:18:04,501 that good at recognizing what was deemed to be talent 435 00:18:04,542 --> 00:18:06,711 that they could look at you 436 00:18:06,753 --> 00:18:12,050 and say if you had it or not, and that their sign-off 437 00:18:12,092 --> 00:18:17,555 or stamp is the only thing that ties you to the next level. 438 00:18:17,597 --> 00:18:20,767 If I don't give you that, you'll never make it. 439 00:18:20,809 --> 00:18:23,687 That, like -- I literally broke it down in that context, 440 00:18:23,728 --> 00:18:25,188 like, early on, 441 00:18:25,230 --> 00:18:29,317 like, he really feels like because he said that, 442 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,862 like, I'm supposed to leave here and go get a real job, 443 00:18:32,904 --> 00:18:35,448 where I made the choice of this is what I was gonna do. 444 00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:36,533 I was like, well, I guess I just don't go back 445 00:18:36,574 --> 00:18:37,909 to that comedy club. 446 00:18:37,951 --> 00:18:39,661 -But how far in were you? How many months? 447 00:18:39,703 --> 00:18:43,415 -I wasn't far. I had this weird, like -- 448 00:18:43,456 --> 00:18:45,125 -You may have been terrible then. 449 00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:47,085 -I'm gonna tell you I was. 450 00:18:47,127 --> 00:18:51,006 I was terrible but I was good. I was a terrible good. 451 00:18:51,047 --> 00:18:53,925 -Well, knowing you a few years after that, 452 00:18:53,967 --> 00:18:57,095 you always had an enormous amount of charisma, 453 00:18:57,137 --> 00:18:59,431 and so I can't imagine how anyone would look at you 454 00:18:59,472 --> 00:19:02,142 and just go, "Don't try to develop. 455 00:19:02,183 --> 00:19:03,601 -I want to say thank you, of course, for that. 456 00:19:03,643 --> 00:19:05,645 But wait. Let's stop here, man, 457 00:19:05,687 --> 00:19:07,939 because this is too good and I don't wanna interrupt you. 458 00:19:07,981 --> 00:19:09,774 We're gonna take a quick break. Let's play some bills. 459 00:19:09,816 --> 00:19:11,443 We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" 460 00:19:11,484 --> 00:19:13,319 after this -- Judd Apatow. 461 00:19:13,361 --> 00:19:16,614 ** 462 00:19:16,656 --> 00:19:18,783 -What makes me smile or laugh every day? 463 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:20,869 You know, there's a lot of videos 464 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:26,207 I'm watching of people who treat cows like dogs. 465 00:19:26,249 --> 00:19:29,127 It also helps me not eat meat 466 00:19:29,169 --> 00:19:32,839 because if the cow acts like a dog, I don't want to eat him. 467 00:19:32,881 --> 00:19:39,471 ** 468 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,438 ** 469 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,190 -Welcome back. 470 00:19:50,231 --> 00:19:51,900 This is "Hart to Heart" and we're talking to Judd Apatow. 471 00:19:51,941 --> 00:19:55,278 You're now the guy that's with the talent 472 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,030 and you're helping the talent, 473 00:19:57,072 --> 00:19:58,782 and you're like, well, I'm not gonna be that 474 00:19:58,823 --> 00:20:00,241 but it's dope that I get to help. 475 00:20:00,283 --> 00:20:01,951 It's dope that I get to be a part of it. 476 00:20:01,993 --> 00:20:03,828 And you're seeing so much success 477 00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:07,332 for so many around you, right? 478 00:20:07,374 --> 00:20:09,167 When did the light bulb click 479 00:20:09,209 --> 00:20:12,003 that you're gonna be able to get to the golden ticket 480 00:20:12,045 --> 00:20:15,173 in the sun, and yours isn't gonna come this way? 481 00:20:15,215 --> 00:20:18,259 I don't need it to come this way because I now realize 482 00:20:18,301 --> 00:20:19,886 that there's a big -- 483 00:20:19,928 --> 00:20:22,055 there's a big, big piece of success 484 00:20:22,097 --> 00:20:25,308 to my pen going to the pad, to my ideas, 485 00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:28,019 to the creative, and me going to wrangle up 486 00:20:28,061 --> 00:20:31,022 all that I know to be a part of the things I create. 487 00:20:31,064 --> 00:20:33,608 Like, what was the defining moment for you 488 00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:36,695 where you said, "No, I'm gonna be, like, 489 00:20:36,736 --> 00:20:39,948 a producer and a writer and a director"? 490 00:20:39,989 --> 00:20:43,201 -Well, in a way it's a -- 491 00:20:43,243 --> 00:20:46,162 you know, you're giving up something, right, 492 00:20:46,204 --> 00:20:49,749 so you go, I wanna be a comedian, I wanna be a star. 493 00:20:49,791 --> 00:20:51,543 -Okay. -Right? And then you -- 494 00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:55,046 I was working. I was on the HBO "Young Comedians" special 495 00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:57,007 and did all the talk shows and all that, 496 00:20:57,048 --> 00:21:00,010 but if you're smart, you know where you stand, right? 497 00:21:00,051 --> 00:21:03,054 You just go, I'm not Jim Carrey. 498 00:21:03,096 --> 00:21:04,848 I'm not doing what Sandler's doing. 499 00:21:04,889 --> 00:21:06,433 I'm in the clubs every night with, like, 500 00:21:06,474 --> 00:21:08,059 Ellen and Paula Poundstone, 501 00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:11,438 and you could feel your potential. 502 00:21:11,479 --> 00:21:13,148 And so, and also I'm very young, 503 00:21:13,189 --> 00:21:15,233 and then I'm writing for other people, 504 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:17,318 and I met Stiller and we created "The Ben Stiller Show," 505 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,824 and suddenly I'm running the show with very little experience 506 00:21:22,866 --> 00:21:25,827 with Ben and getting a real paycheck, 507 00:21:25,869 --> 00:21:29,330 more than the $50 I was getting a month 508 00:21:29,372 --> 00:21:32,417 before hosting at The Improv, and you feel like, 509 00:21:32,459 --> 00:21:34,919 oh, the universe is steering me 510 00:21:34,961 --> 00:21:39,591 and so I'm just, like, following this way 511 00:21:39,632 --> 00:21:42,052 that seems to be drawing me in. 512 00:21:42,093 --> 00:21:44,262 And then when that show ended, it's like, okay, 513 00:21:44,304 --> 00:21:47,057 do you go back to stand-up or do you keep writing and producing? 514 00:21:47,098 --> 00:21:49,142 -How long did "The Ben Stiller Show" go? 515 00:21:49,184 --> 00:21:55,106 -We shot 17 episodes and that was it, 516 00:21:55,148 --> 00:21:58,193 but we won the Emmy later in the year 517 00:21:58,234 --> 00:21:59,944 and I got a job at "The Larry Sanders Show" 518 00:21:59,986 --> 00:22:03,281 after that and worked on this cartoon, "The Critic," 519 00:22:03,323 --> 00:22:05,492 and I said, "Okay, I'll work on each show two days a week." 520 00:22:05,533 --> 00:22:07,494 One's very realistic. 521 00:22:07,535 --> 00:22:10,455 The other one's a cartoon. Two different styles. 522 00:22:10,497 --> 00:22:13,625 James Brooks and Mike Reiss and Al Jean were 523 00:22:13,667 --> 00:22:15,377 doing "The Critic," so I thought, 524 00:22:15,418 --> 00:22:16,961 well, here's my mentorship, 525 00:22:17,003 --> 00:22:19,881 these two shows where I'm gonna learn how do everything, 526 00:22:19,923 --> 00:22:21,591 and I can't do these two shows 527 00:22:21,633 --> 00:22:23,301 if every night I'm trying to get on stage at The Improv. 528 00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:25,637 -So you said, "I'm gonna make the decision." 529 00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:27,972 -Yeah. -"I'm gonna walk away." 530 00:22:28,014 --> 00:22:33,937 You cracked the code on character-driven IP. 531 00:22:33,978 --> 00:22:35,980 I wanna focus on characters. 532 00:22:36,022 --> 00:22:37,440 Like, when I think about "Freaks and Geeks" -- 533 00:22:37,482 --> 00:22:39,234 characters. When I think about "Superbad" -- 534 00:22:39,275 --> 00:22:41,945 the characters, "Undeclared" -- the characters. 535 00:22:41,986 --> 00:22:45,448 Yes, the concepts were all based in these locations 536 00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:47,492 or these things, but it was about the people. 537 00:22:47,534 --> 00:22:51,162 And when you started to, like, build on that, 538 00:22:51,204 --> 00:22:53,289 it just seemed to be never-ending. 539 00:22:53,331 --> 00:22:55,291 I was like, Judd is gonna do this forever 540 00:22:55,333 --> 00:22:58,878 because he's just focusing on real people with real stories. 541 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,048 He's not coming to the table with these crazy, 542 00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:04,342 crazy, crazy ideas. It starts with, 543 00:23:04,384 --> 00:23:06,761 "Well, it's a couple that's going through said thing 544 00:23:06,803 --> 00:23:08,096 and they both are at this age, 545 00:23:08,138 --> 00:23:10,306 and life at this age gets difficult. 546 00:23:10,348 --> 00:23:15,395 It's a movie about being 40. I want to display what 40 is." 547 00:23:15,437 --> 00:23:17,188 And damn it, you do it, and you do it in such 548 00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:21,401 a clever way where act 1, act 2, act 3 are so relatable 549 00:23:21,443 --> 00:23:22,944 to those that are there, 550 00:23:22,986 --> 00:23:24,654 and those who aren't there are the children of 551 00:23:24,696 --> 00:23:27,782 and they get to see the kids. You cracked that code. 552 00:23:27,824 --> 00:23:29,242 What was that moment? 553 00:23:29,284 --> 00:23:30,994 Like, right now I got two moments out of you. 554 00:23:31,036 --> 00:23:32,412 You're like, "Well, I had to give up stand-up. 555 00:23:32,454 --> 00:23:34,539 I had to focus on this. When I focused on this, 556 00:23:34,581 --> 00:23:35,999 I thought that it was steering me this way, 557 00:23:36,041 --> 00:23:38,209 so this is what" I was gonna do. 558 00:23:38,251 --> 00:23:41,546 What was the first opportunity where you said, "Oh, I got it. 559 00:23:41,588 --> 00:23:44,090 This is my -- This is my lane"? 560 00:23:44,132 --> 00:23:45,925 -Well, I didn't understand any of it for so long. 561 00:23:45,967 --> 00:23:48,345 I was just into, like, jokes. -Okay. 562 00:23:48,386 --> 00:23:50,055 -I was into comedy. 563 00:23:50,096 --> 00:23:53,224 I didn't understand any of it till Shandling, 564 00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:54,851 because at "The Larry Sanders Show," 565 00:23:54,893 --> 00:23:56,728 Garry was playing a talk-show host. 566 00:23:56,770 --> 00:23:59,022 It was behind the scenes of a talk show. 567 00:23:59,064 --> 00:24:00,899 It was on HBO, if anybody wants to see it, 568 00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:02,984 and it's from the '90s. 569 00:24:03,026 --> 00:24:07,364 And Garry's whole thing was exploring himself in his art 570 00:24:07,405 --> 00:24:10,784 and in his work, so he knew there's a part of me 571 00:24:10,825 --> 00:24:13,078 obsessed with being super famous. 572 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,207 He had hosted "The Tonight Show" a bunch and he noticed 573 00:24:17,248 --> 00:24:21,252 how funny it was that everyone wanted this success so bad, 574 00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:23,838 and he thought that the dream of success 575 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,423 prevented people from loving each other, 576 00:24:25,465 --> 00:24:28,259 from connecting -- you know, their egos. 577 00:24:28,301 --> 00:24:30,679 And that's what he wanted to explore, so it's basically, 578 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,392 you know, a workplace show, but it's about show business 579 00:24:35,433 --> 00:24:37,435 and how it gets in the way of love. 580 00:24:37,477 --> 00:24:38,853 That was his idea. 581 00:24:38,895 --> 00:24:40,939 I never heard anyone talk like that. 582 00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:43,149 We were writing dick jokes and, you know, 583 00:24:43,191 --> 00:24:46,069 Garry's trying to reach into his soul, 584 00:24:46,111 --> 00:24:47,904 and basically he's taking a part of himself 585 00:24:47,946 --> 00:24:51,282 that I think he doesn't like, which is the egomaniac part. 586 00:24:51,324 --> 00:24:53,118 It wasn't all of him, but it was a part of him 587 00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:55,620 who wanted to be successful. 588 00:24:55,662 --> 00:24:58,832 And he said, "I'm gonna satirize the part of myself 589 00:24:58,873 --> 00:25:01,084 that I want to get rid of." 590 00:25:01,126 --> 00:25:05,380 And it was fascinating to see him go though it, 591 00:25:05,422 --> 00:25:08,717 and so by sitting in a room and watching him make choices, 592 00:25:08,758 --> 00:25:10,385 that's how I learned. 593 00:25:10,427 --> 00:25:12,178 It was just osmosis of, "I like this joke. 594 00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:13,763 I don't like that joke. I like this story. 595 00:25:13,805 --> 00:25:15,598 I don't like that story." 596 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,225 And then when things would happen in his life, 597 00:25:17,267 --> 00:25:20,061 real things, he would put it in the show. 598 00:25:20,103 --> 00:25:23,148 Dana Carvey did a sketch on "Saturday Night Live," 599 00:25:23,189 --> 00:25:24,482 where he did an impression of Garry, 600 00:25:24,524 --> 00:25:26,151 and it was really, like, whiny and mean, 601 00:25:26,192 --> 00:25:28,820 like, "Eh, my ass looks fat!" 602 00:25:28,862 --> 00:25:31,156 it was really, like, not nice. 603 00:25:31,197 --> 00:25:33,491 And he called Garry and he's like, "Don't be mad at me." 604 00:25:33,533 --> 00:25:35,994 I think Smigel wrote it -- Robert Smigel. 605 00:25:36,036 --> 00:25:37,996 And Garry said, "Don't worry about it. 606 00:25:38,038 --> 00:25:39,956 We'll just do it on the show." 607 00:25:39,998 --> 00:25:42,250 And then everyone wrote an episode 608 00:25:42,292 --> 00:25:44,419 where Dana Carvey is a guest host, 609 00:25:44,461 --> 00:25:47,297 does an impression of Larry Sanders, 610 00:25:47,339 --> 00:25:51,217 and its about how mad Larry is at the impression. 611 00:25:51,259 --> 00:25:55,180 And I thought, oh, so you dig deep into yourself. 612 00:25:55,221 --> 00:25:58,558 So "This Is 40," in a way, is like Larry said. 613 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,686 -Insane. And, you know, it's actually kinda what makes 614 00:26:01,728 --> 00:26:05,523 the "Seinfeld" of it all, or the "Curb Your Enthusiasm." 615 00:26:05,565 --> 00:26:07,192 Like, when you start to look at that, 616 00:26:07,233 --> 00:26:10,070 it's aligned with what you're saying there. 617 00:26:10,111 --> 00:26:12,113 It's the things that you're aware of, 618 00:26:12,155 --> 00:26:14,199 that self-awareness that you're able to 619 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,825 basically shine a light on 620 00:26:15,867 --> 00:26:18,745 and bring to the table because you can get a laugh. 621 00:26:18,787 --> 00:26:20,955 It's not hard to get a laugh because you know the things 622 00:26:20,997 --> 00:26:23,500 that you laugh at about yourself that are pretty ridiculous. 623 00:26:23,541 --> 00:26:30,048 Like, I do. And I can go to the space of self-deprecation 624 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:32,050 as often as I want because there's so much 625 00:26:32,092 --> 00:26:34,886 that I know that I have that I can table 626 00:26:34,928 --> 00:26:36,471 that's really ridiculous. 627 00:26:36,513 --> 00:26:38,223 -Well, that's what always made me laugh about you 628 00:26:38,264 --> 00:26:39,974 when you were really young, 'cause a lot of your act 629 00:26:40,016 --> 00:26:41,351 was about, like, being a coward. 630 00:26:41,393 --> 00:26:43,061 -Yeah. -You know, and feeling, like, 631 00:26:43,103 --> 00:26:45,647 smaller than everybody and acting tough 632 00:26:45,689 --> 00:26:47,649 but really not wanting to get into a fight. 633 00:26:47,691 --> 00:26:51,069 -Stone-cold bitch, yeah. Stone-cold bitch, off the back. 634 00:26:51,111 --> 00:26:53,863 And to date, still, but I just hide it well. 635 00:26:53,905 --> 00:26:55,824 I got a little bigger inside so I'm trying to act 636 00:26:55,865 --> 00:26:58,952 like it's different, but it's still the same, very much. 637 00:26:58,993 --> 00:27:01,746 When you go and now you're, like -- 638 00:27:01,788 --> 00:27:05,125 you're making more steps, there's more forward progress, 639 00:27:05,166 --> 00:27:08,253 directing comes into play, right? 640 00:27:08,294 --> 00:27:10,255 What was it that clicked where you said, "Okay, well, 641 00:27:10,296 --> 00:27:12,632 now I can actually start directing as well"? 642 00:27:12,674 --> 00:27:14,592 Like, "I want to get behind the lens. 643 00:27:14,634 --> 00:27:16,761 I'm not just gonna be a part of the story and the idea. 644 00:27:16,803 --> 00:27:19,139 I wanna be -- I want to shoot it. I can see it. 645 00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:21,057 I have this vision in my head, 646 00:27:21,099 --> 00:27:22,851 and I'm confident I can make it work." 647 00:27:22,892 --> 00:27:24,978 What was it that made you start going in that direction? 648 00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:27,313 -Well, I was really afraid to direct. 649 00:27:27,355 --> 00:27:30,650 I went to USC film school, and I was the worst. 650 00:27:30,692 --> 00:27:34,654 I mean, my short films could not have been more embarrassing. 651 00:27:34,696 --> 00:27:36,322 -Really? -I just never 652 00:27:36,364 --> 00:27:37,657 thought about visuals. 653 00:27:37,699 --> 00:27:40,326 As a kid, I'm like, oh, Leno's funny. 654 00:27:40,368 --> 00:27:41,953 You know, Richard Pryor's funny. 655 00:27:41,995 --> 00:27:43,288 -That's shocking. -I never thought, like, 656 00:27:43,329 --> 00:27:45,540 oh, look at the zoom in and the push in. 657 00:27:45,582 --> 00:27:48,084 What lens was that? Like, not for a second. 658 00:27:48,126 --> 00:27:50,295 So I was very insecure about that, 659 00:27:50,337 --> 00:27:53,131 and so at moments when I could have asked, 660 00:27:53,173 --> 00:27:54,799 like at 'The Ben Stiller Show," I never did, 661 00:27:54,841 --> 00:27:57,010 because I thought, what if it's terrible? 662 00:27:57,052 --> 00:27:58,803 What if it cut it together 663 00:27:58,845 --> 00:28:01,097 and everyone's looking in the wrong direction? 664 00:28:01,139 --> 00:28:02,640 And then one day at "The Larry Sanders Show" 665 00:28:02,682 --> 00:28:04,434 during the last season, Garry walked into my office 666 00:28:04,476 --> 00:28:07,020 and went, "You're doing the next one." 667 00:28:07,062 --> 00:28:10,774 Never talked about it before. I never asked him to do it. 668 00:28:10,815 --> 00:28:12,442 It was just his instinct, 669 00:28:12,484 --> 00:28:15,153 like, "I think Judd could do a good one." 670 00:28:15,195 --> 00:28:17,947 And he helped me through the first one. 671 00:28:17,989 --> 00:28:20,867 -When you say helped, like, was Garry very strong 672 00:28:20,909 --> 00:28:22,619 with understanding, like, 673 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:25,497 you know, the camera and the world of placement... 674 00:28:25,538 --> 00:28:28,416 -He knew all of it and just was on the set more 675 00:28:28,458 --> 00:28:31,002 than he would be for another director 676 00:28:31,044 --> 00:28:34,589 and just helped guide me through that first experience. 677 00:28:34,631 --> 00:28:36,216 -How old were you? 678 00:28:36,257 --> 00:28:39,302 -So that would have been -- I would have been 30. 679 00:28:39,344 --> 00:28:41,179 -Wow. -And -- 680 00:28:41,221 --> 00:28:42,430 -Shitting bricks. 681 00:28:42,472 --> 00:28:44,683 -Shitting a brick to give Rip Torn 682 00:28:44,724 --> 00:28:49,229 and Jeffrey Tambor notes, and then it was an episode 683 00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:51,690 where people were saying goodbye to Larry 684 00:28:51,731 --> 00:28:54,067 'cause Larry was leaving the show, 685 00:28:54,109 --> 00:28:57,153 and so all these different stars in the show 686 00:28:57,195 --> 00:29:00,198 were making videos to say goodbye to Larry 687 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,785 that Hank Kingsley was shooting. 688 00:29:03,827 --> 00:29:08,707 So I also had to direct Drew Barrymore and Ed Begley 689 00:29:08,748 --> 00:29:11,001 and Michael Richards and -- -Amateur director, 690 00:29:11,042 --> 00:29:13,420 and you're talking to big stars 691 00:29:13,461 --> 00:29:16,089 and trying to figure out the best way to give notes. 692 00:29:16,131 --> 00:29:18,758 You're timid, you're not that confident in... 693 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,510 -Terrified. -...how you're saying it. 694 00:29:20,552 --> 00:29:23,763 It's, like, a very low voice and just trying -- 695 00:29:23,805 --> 00:29:25,682 you're saying things like, "Thank you. Please." 696 00:29:25,724 --> 00:29:27,475 -And I'd read a book the night before. 697 00:29:27,517 --> 00:29:29,811 David Mamet, the playwright, wrote this book about, 698 00:29:29,853 --> 00:29:31,730 you know, on directing, 699 00:29:31,771 --> 00:29:34,274 and his main note was, "Don't say much to the actors." 700 00:29:34,315 --> 00:29:35,859 I mean, his whole theory is, like, 701 00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:38,862 "Just say the words," you know? He's very simple. 702 00:29:38,903 --> 00:29:41,948 But he said, "If you say one thing to an actor, 703 00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:44,075 the tiniest thing, like, 704 00:29:44,117 --> 00:29:46,369 'I think you'd be a little madder,"" 705 00:29:46,411 --> 00:29:48,580 he said, "everything they do in the entire scene 706 00:29:48,621 --> 00:29:51,583 will change, so you don't have to tell them 10 things." 707 00:29:51,624 --> 00:29:55,170 Right? And that helped so much because I was so scared 708 00:29:55,211 --> 00:29:57,380 to know what those 10 things would be. 709 00:29:57,422 --> 00:29:59,090 What's the worst note you've gotten from a director 710 00:29:59,132 --> 00:30:01,092 that just, you went, 711 00:30:01,134 --> 00:30:02,761 "Oh, this person doesn't know what they're talking about"? 712 00:30:02,802 --> 00:30:05,263 -"Do something else." 713 00:30:05,305 --> 00:30:07,390 Like what? "Anything but that." 714 00:30:07,432 --> 00:30:10,393 -Yeah. -What do you mean? 715 00:30:10,435 --> 00:30:15,398 "Anything but what you just did. Do something else." 716 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,651 All right, uh, I'll give it a go. 717 00:30:18,693 --> 00:30:21,446 "No, not that. 718 00:30:21,488 --> 00:30:24,115 Whatever you just chose, don't do that either. 719 00:30:24,157 --> 00:30:25,617 Something else." 720 00:30:25,658 --> 00:30:27,369 -So it is about, do you trust the director? 721 00:30:27,410 --> 00:30:29,412 So when I direct, 722 00:30:29,454 --> 00:30:30,830 and I'm trying to get a lot of options, 723 00:30:30,872 --> 00:30:32,415 I'm thinking about editing. 724 00:30:32,457 --> 00:30:35,126 I'm like, okay, six months from now I'm in editing. 725 00:30:35,168 --> 00:30:36,461 What do I wish I had done? 726 00:30:36,503 --> 00:30:38,254 What do I wish I would have gotten? 727 00:30:38,296 --> 00:30:40,382 Like, this scene is so goofy. 728 00:30:40,423 --> 00:30:42,550 Should I get one a little less goofy? 729 00:30:42,592 --> 00:30:44,636 Or this scene is kinda serious. 730 00:30:44,678 --> 00:30:47,389 Maybe I need like two hard jokes. 731 00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:50,141 And that's what I'm doing. I'm, like, giving bullets 732 00:30:50,183 --> 00:30:55,522 to my editor's gun so he's not, or she's not, furious at me. 733 00:30:55,563 --> 00:30:56,940 -I don't want to go any further. I'm gonna stop. 734 00:30:56,981 --> 00:30:58,233 I'm gonna take a quick break. 735 00:30:58,274 --> 00:30:59,818 Guys, we're gonna go pay some bills. 736 00:30:59,859 --> 00:31:01,695 We'll be right back with more Judd Apatow after this. 737 00:31:01,736 --> 00:31:06,116 ** 738 00:31:06,157 --> 00:31:07,784 -Two minutes, each of you. 739 00:31:07,826 --> 00:31:11,538 -Let's see how we work together. The blue, the red. 740 00:31:11,579 --> 00:31:16,167 Well, no, because you did "Undeclared" in 2001. 741 00:31:16,209 --> 00:31:18,169 -Yes. We're on 23 years. 742 00:31:18,211 --> 00:31:20,380 -Yeah. We made it. -That's insane. 743 00:31:20,422 --> 00:31:24,926 -We made it. -That's insane. 744 00:31:24,968 --> 00:31:27,721 You think about that, it gets scary, actually. 745 00:31:27,762 --> 00:31:29,305 It really does. What up, guys? 746 00:31:29,347 --> 00:31:31,391 Let's do it. Let's knock this out. 747 00:31:31,433 --> 00:31:33,184 it's gonna be great. -Have fun. 748 00:31:33,226 --> 00:31:39,524 ** 749 00:31:43,945 --> 00:31:48,533 ** 750 00:31:48,575 --> 00:31:50,160 -Welcome back to "Hart to Heart." 751 00:31:50,201 --> 00:31:53,663 We're still taking to Judd Apatow, the legend. 752 00:31:53,705 --> 00:31:56,374 What movie presented the biggest, like, 753 00:31:56,416 --> 00:31:58,043 piece of pressure for you? -For me? 754 00:31:58,084 --> 00:32:01,671 -Yes, when you got, like, the budget, the money, etc., 755 00:32:01,713 --> 00:32:03,340 which one was like, "Oh, shit"? 756 00:32:03,381 --> 00:32:08,178 -Well, "The Cable Guy" because I rewrote someone else's 757 00:32:08,219 --> 00:32:13,600 script for that and was the producer, and at the time, 758 00:32:13,641 --> 00:32:16,019 it was a big deal 'cause Jim Carrey was paid $20 million. 759 00:32:16,061 --> 00:32:18,188 It was most anyone had ever been paid. 760 00:32:18,229 --> 00:32:21,691 And they gave us $40 million to make the movie, 761 00:32:21,733 --> 00:32:24,819 and they reallydid not want us to go a penny over. 762 00:32:24,861 --> 00:32:26,988 So anything that we did that went over 763 00:32:27,030 --> 00:32:29,532 was treated like we were millions over, 764 00:32:29,574 --> 00:32:32,994 and so it was very combative during the shoot. 765 00:32:33,036 --> 00:32:35,872 -And this is at what stage in your career? 766 00:32:35,914 --> 00:32:39,209 -This is the first movie I've ever fully produced, 767 00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:40,710 or the second movie. 768 00:32:40,752 --> 00:32:42,253 I did a movie, "Heavyweights," before that, 769 00:32:42,295 --> 00:32:44,881 so I did a kids' movie and then "The Cable Guy." 770 00:32:44,923 --> 00:32:46,716 And I don't really know what I'm doing, 771 00:32:46,758 --> 00:32:48,968 and then Ben Stiller's directing and he's fantastic 772 00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:50,637 but very ambitious to make it great. 773 00:32:50,679 --> 00:32:52,889 It's like "Severance." 774 00:32:52,931 --> 00:32:55,392 I mean, he is gonna push it to be as strong as it can be, 775 00:32:55,433 --> 00:32:57,811 and he's giving me marching orders to go get him stuff. 776 00:32:57,852 --> 00:32:59,646 "I need a helicopter for this. 777 00:32:59,688 --> 00:33:02,023 I need 100 more extras for this." 778 00:33:02,065 --> 00:33:05,151 And I have to go to the head of production at Sony 779 00:33:05,193 --> 00:33:06,903 and ask for it, and he's like, 780 00:33:06,945 --> 00:33:08,780 "You don't have the money for that." 781 00:33:08,822 --> 00:33:10,865 And I would push, and then I remember 782 00:33:10,907 --> 00:33:15,578 once he said, "We are not the Columbia Bank of Judd," 783 00:33:15,620 --> 00:33:18,581 or something like that, like, screaming at me. 784 00:33:18,623 --> 00:33:20,166 -Did you guys end up going over? 785 00:33:20,208 --> 00:33:22,419 -Not much. I think maybe the movie cost $42 million. 786 00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:23,795 -Okay. -Which, you know, 787 00:33:23,837 --> 00:33:25,964 for a movie is not a terrible thing. 788 00:33:26,006 --> 00:33:28,049 And although thought of as a movie that didn't do well, 789 00:33:28,091 --> 00:33:29,884 it grossed $100 million around the world. 790 00:33:29,926 --> 00:33:33,513 -And ultimately one of the best comedies ever done. 791 00:33:33,555 --> 00:33:34,931 -And held up, we hope. -1,000%. 792 00:33:34,973 --> 00:33:37,767 -But for me as a young person, 793 00:33:37,809 --> 00:33:40,729 how do I have these conversations 794 00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:44,024 and have them not be ugly and combative?" 795 00:33:44,065 --> 00:33:46,735 And after that, I really worked hard on budgets 796 00:33:46,776 --> 00:33:48,153 the rest of my career 797 00:33:48,194 --> 00:33:51,698 because of the amount of pain and stress 798 00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:56,745 knowing we didn't have enough -- enough time for post. 799 00:33:56,786 --> 00:33:59,039 Like, oh, I can't ever be in that situation 800 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,749 where we don't have what we need. 801 00:34:00,790 --> 00:34:02,500 -Well, this is the part that nobody knows. 802 00:34:02,542 --> 00:34:03,960 Like, this is the part of the business 803 00:34:04,002 --> 00:34:05,920 that is overlooked by fans, right? 804 00:34:05,962 --> 00:34:08,965 And by the way, it should be. Fans, you don't need to know. 805 00:34:09,007 --> 00:34:11,176 -They don't want to know the cost of the lighting package. 806 00:34:11,217 --> 00:34:12,635 -You don't need to know 807 00:34:12,677 --> 00:34:15,597 how crazy the behind-the-scenes work is 808 00:34:15,638 --> 00:34:17,015 when it actually comes to making a movie. 809 00:34:17,057 --> 00:34:19,392 -Oh, my God. We were at Medieval Times 810 00:34:19,434 --> 00:34:21,728 shooting a scene with Jim Carrey and Matthew Broderick 811 00:34:21,770 --> 00:34:24,564 on horses, right, trying to knock each other 812 00:34:24,606 --> 00:34:27,150 off of horses with the long poles, 813 00:34:27,192 --> 00:34:29,778 and we're just not done and it's 2:00 in the morning 814 00:34:29,819 --> 00:34:31,863 and we're not done. Like, we need -- 815 00:34:31,905 --> 00:34:34,949 we're gonna shoot until sunrise. We're in triple overtime. 816 00:34:34,991 --> 00:34:37,160 And the guy says, "Shut it down right now. 817 00:34:37,202 --> 00:34:39,371 Shut it down." And in my head I thought, 818 00:34:39,412 --> 00:34:41,664 we don't even have a sequence. 819 00:34:41,706 --> 00:34:43,917 And I'm like, "What do you want me to do? 820 00:34:43,958 --> 00:34:47,253 I can't stop." And I took the battery out of my phone 821 00:34:47,295 --> 00:34:51,216 and threw it 100 feet away and didn't tell anyone. 822 00:34:51,257 --> 00:34:52,801 They're like, let's just keep going. 823 00:34:52,842 --> 00:34:54,969 -By the way, by the way, 824 00:34:55,011 --> 00:34:58,098 those are the stances that you have to take as a producer. 825 00:34:58,139 --> 00:35:02,268 It's like when you do feel like you have to take a stance, 826 00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:04,312 those are defining moments for you and your career 827 00:35:04,354 --> 00:35:06,690 because it's like, I ultimately want to give you the best movie 828 00:35:06,731 --> 00:35:08,858 that you can have, and you're not allowing me 829 00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:12,779 to do that by standing in my way so if you don't let me do this, 830 00:35:12,821 --> 00:35:14,364 I'm gonna hand in this and it's gonna be shit 831 00:35:14,406 --> 00:35:16,282 and then, ultimately, I'm gonna have a double problem 832 00:35:16,324 --> 00:35:19,160 for going over budget here and handing in shit. 833 00:35:19,202 --> 00:35:21,121 I would much rather go over budget, 834 00:35:21,162 --> 00:35:23,873 get the stuff I need, and then give you something that's good 835 00:35:23,915 --> 00:35:25,208 so that I feel like I set you up 836 00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:26,876 for the biggest piece of success. 837 00:35:26,918 --> 00:35:28,211 And sometimes those fights are necessary, 838 00:35:28,253 --> 00:35:29,838 but that's what I feel producing is. 839 00:35:29,879 --> 00:35:31,548 Producing, to me, is managing people. 840 00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:33,883 -Well, 11 years later, 841 00:35:33,925 --> 00:35:35,385 I have to go to the same guy. 842 00:35:35,427 --> 00:35:37,929 I haven't worked with him for 11 years, 843 00:35:37,971 --> 00:35:39,597 and we're gonna go make "Superbad." 844 00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:41,725 -Oh, my God. -And "Superbad" is a $18 million 845 00:35:41,766 --> 00:35:45,729 movie, all in, and I have to go kiss the ring 846 00:35:45,770 --> 00:35:49,065 and apologize for that 11 years before, 847 00:35:49,107 --> 00:35:51,151 for throwing the phone and being a pain in the ass, 848 00:35:51,192 --> 00:35:54,112 I just say, "I think I know how to do it better 849 00:35:54,154 --> 00:35:55,780 so we won't be in that position." 850 00:35:55,822 --> 00:35:57,365 But it really -- like, people said, like, 851 00:35:57,407 --> 00:36:00,785 "You better go talk to him," 'cause he was still mad. 852 00:36:00,827 --> 00:36:03,788 -It's a great story. Strong, really strong. 853 00:36:03,830 --> 00:36:05,749 All right, let's stop here. Let's go pay some bills. 854 00:36:05,790 --> 00:36:07,625 We'll be right back with more "Hart to Heart" after this. 855 00:36:07,667 --> 00:36:12,005 ** 856 00:36:12,047 --> 00:36:13,882 -Wait, remember that story 857 00:36:13,923 --> 00:36:16,009 where you were at the Comedy Store? 858 00:36:16,051 --> 00:36:17,552 You'd just moved to town. -Yes. 859 00:36:17,594 --> 00:36:19,721 -You were walking out front. -Yes. 860 00:36:19,763 --> 00:36:21,056 -Then a car pulled up and said, 861 00:36:21,097 --> 00:36:22,766 "Who are you representing?" -Yeah. 862 00:36:22,807 --> 00:36:26,061 -And what did you say? -Well... [indistinct] 863 00:36:26,102 --> 00:36:29,647 If you're smart, you tell them, "My mom and my dad." 864 00:36:29,689 --> 00:36:32,817 If you're smart. -And they bought that. 865 00:36:32,859 --> 00:36:35,028 -My mom and my dad, that's who. 866 00:36:35,070 --> 00:36:37,447 Uh, hopefully I'm representing them well. 867 00:36:37,489 --> 00:36:44,120 ** 868 00:36:48,458 --> 00:36:52,462 ** 869 00:36:52,504 --> 00:36:53,797 -Welcome back. 870 00:36:53,838 --> 00:36:55,298 I'm still talking to Judd Apatow, 871 00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:57,717 and we're talking about the business in depth. 872 00:36:57,759 --> 00:36:59,552 Was there a moment 873 00:36:59,594 --> 00:37:02,472 where Judd Apatow got a little, like -- 874 00:37:02,514 --> 00:37:05,475 did you ever get a little, you know -- 875 00:37:05,517 --> 00:37:08,436 -Cocky? -Yeah, like, "I'm the shit"? 876 00:37:08,478 --> 00:37:10,939 -Well, there were certainly moments that I enjoyed, 877 00:37:10,980 --> 00:37:13,066 and they're very simple moments, 878 00:37:13,108 --> 00:37:15,527 Not cocky moments, just, you know, going to The Grove 879 00:37:15,568 --> 00:37:18,154 and there's a line around the block for "Knocked Up," 880 00:37:18,196 --> 00:37:19,823 and you're like, that is so crazy. 881 00:37:19,864 --> 00:37:21,741 -Wow. -How many people are here? 882 00:37:21,783 --> 00:37:24,869 I mean, there's moments of joy and pulling it off, 883 00:37:24,911 --> 00:37:30,417 but I think it's so hard to make any of them work 884 00:37:30,458 --> 00:37:33,169 and then it's so hard to get anyone to go 885 00:37:33,211 --> 00:37:35,005 that it always keeps you off balance. 886 00:37:35,046 --> 00:37:37,257 It keeps you from being cocky 887 00:37:37,298 --> 00:37:40,593 because one succeeding does not help the next one succeed. 888 00:37:40,635 --> 00:37:42,512 So you're always terrified of the next one. 889 00:37:42,554 --> 00:37:46,766 -The cockiness, I think, has to come for you to you. 890 00:37:46,808 --> 00:37:51,021 Like, I don't believe in the cocky to the world. 891 00:37:51,062 --> 00:37:52,564 I don't believe in that, right? 892 00:37:52,605 --> 00:37:56,192 Like, I think the idea of cockiness -- 893 00:37:56,234 --> 00:37:58,028 it's a self thing, like, for a moment 894 00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:59,904 when you get to close the door, 895 00:37:59,946 --> 00:38:01,781 you walk in home and you close the door, 896 00:38:01,823 --> 00:38:04,409 and you just accomplished the craziest thing ever, 897 00:38:04,451 --> 00:38:06,494 in that moment when you're by yourself, 898 00:38:06,536 --> 00:38:08,788 "I'm the motherfuckin' shit! I just did it that! 899 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:10,206 I can't believe I" -- 900 00:38:10,248 --> 00:38:11,875 like, that moment, you're by yourself. 901 00:38:11,916 --> 00:38:13,710 Let me get this out, 'cause I gotta keep it contained 902 00:38:13,752 --> 00:38:16,463 and I gotta keep it in 'cause I don't ever want to 903 00:38:16,504 --> 00:38:18,423 come off ungrateful. I don't ever want to seem 904 00:38:18,465 --> 00:38:21,092 like I'm not aware, 'cause it can stop at any point in time. 905 00:38:21,134 --> 00:38:24,220 -Yeah, I'm trying to think, because, you know, 906 00:38:24,262 --> 00:38:26,806 life tends to balance you out. 907 00:38:26,848 --> 00:38:28,767 So when you -- -Oh, I know. 908 00:38:28,808 --> 00:38:30,310 -Yeah, right? 909 00:38:30,352 --> 00:38:32,645 You're like, things happen, you know -- 910 00:38:32,687 --> 00:38:34,481 -Oh, I've been balanced. Yeah. -Yeah. 911 00:38:34,522 --> 00:38:36,107 This is what Denzel was talking about 912 00:38:36,149 --> 00:38:38,568 where the devil comes for you. 913 00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:40,612 [ Laughter ] 914 00:38:40,653 --> 00:38:43,239 But I understood what he meant, which is, you know -- 915 00:38:43,281 --> 00:38:45,408 I remember I was editing "The 40-Year-Old Virgin" 916 00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:47,452 and I found out my mom had cancer. 917 00:38:47,494 --> 00:38:50,163 And it was this moment of, "Oh, my God. It works. 918 00:38:50,205 --> 00:38:52,207 This is gonna work." 919 00:38:52,248 --> 00:38:54,751 And then it just flattens the whole thing out. 920 00:38:54,793 --> 00:38:58,505 And then you just, you know, you just keep doing the work, 921 00:38:58,546 --> 00:39:00,840 you know, and in almost every moment, 922 00:39:00,882 --> 00:39:04,010 there's something, or next one. 923 00:39:04,052 --> 00:39:05,303 Like, you might be finishing a movie, 924 00:39:05,345 --> 00:39:07,931 and the next one you're so worried about 925 00:39:07,972 --> 00:39:12,394 that you actually don't enjoy the success of the one 926 00:39:12,435 --> 00:39:14,312 that just came out because 927 00:39:14,354 --> 00:39:17,482 the script's not good on the next one. 928 00:39:17,524 --> 00:39:21,444 -Was that your darkest moment in your career, 929 00:39:21,486 --> 00:39:25,365 finding out that your mom had cancer and while doing, 930 00:39:25,407 --> 00:39:27,992 or being a part of, like, a production? 931 00:39:28,034 --> 00:39:29,703 Do you feel like that was your lowest? 932 00:39:29,744 --> 00:39:34,582 -She passed, but it was four very, very difficult years. 933 00:39:34,624 --> 00:39:40,463 And so there'd be all these just strange moments on that ride. 934 00:39:40,505 --> 00:39:42,507 So, and certainly I guess, you know, 935 00:39:42,549 --> 00:39:47,303 when you look at -- that's like 2004 to 2008 936 00:39:47,345 --> 00:39:48,972 where I was doing a lot of stuff, 937 00:39:49,014 --> 00:39:53,685 but at the same time maybe completely traumatized by that, 938 00:39:53,727 --> 00:39:55,520 so I'm doing the work, 939 00:39:55,562 --> 00:39:59,190 but I'm not necessarily feeling fantastic 940 00:39:59,232 --> 00:40:01,317 because we're all struggling with that. 941 00:40:01,359 --> 00:40:03,319 -Did you ever get to a point, a breaking point, 942 00:40:03,361 --> 00:40:04,988 where you were thinking about, "You know what? 943 00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:06,740 Maybe this is it for me. 944 00:40:06,781 --> 00:40:10,368 Maybe I've kinda -- Maybe I've kinda done 945 00:40:10,410 --> 00:40:14,289 all that I'm going to do because I'm at a point where 946 00:40:14,330 --> 00:40:17,042 I don't want to do it anymore." 947 00:40:17,083 --> 00:40:18,418 -It was kinda more the opposite, 948 00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:21,296 which is when I wrote "Funny People," 949 00:40:21,338 --> 00:40:25,091 which was about Adam's character being sick, 950 00:40:25,133 --> 00:40:27,761 it was a way to express all the things 951 00:40:27,802 --> 00:40:29,929 I had gone through with my mom, 952 00:40:29,971 --> 00:40:33,683 which I hadn't talked about when the movie came out. 953 00:40:33,725 --> 00:40:37,187 And so sometimes you look back, you know, 15 years, 954 00:40:37,228 --> 00:40:39,064 and you just go, "What the hell was I thinking? 955 00:40:39,105 --> 00:40:40,648 Why did I write that?" 956 00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:43,943 I didn't even notice it so much at the time, 957 00:40:43,985 --> 00:40:46,321 but that was the only way for me to get through 958 00:40:46,363 --> 00:40:49,908 was to try to write a character 959 00:40:49,949 --> 00:40:52,369 that was learning lessons from it, 960 00:40:52,410 --> 00:40:54,454 that was making the connections from it. 961 00:40:54,496 --> 00:40:57,540 Like, what are the positives that you could take? 962 00:40:57,582 --> 00:41:00,418 How could you survive something like that? 963 00:41:00,460 --> 00:41:03,546 And you're not even doing it for work or creativity. 964 00:41:03,588 --> 00:41:05,715 It's almost like your mind's like, this is the only way 965 00:41:05,757 --> 00:41:10,553 you're gonna get through is to find a way to express this. 966 00:41:10,595 --> 00:41:16,893 -What you've also done that I'm extremely envious of -- 967 00:41:16,935 --> 00:41:21,606 you found a way to, like, take the talent of you 968 00:41:21,648 --> 00:41:24,818 and merge that talent with the talent of wife 969 00:41:24,859 --> 00:41:29,322 and co-create and make things move forward 970 00:41:29,364 --> 00:41:32,158 from a household perspective. 971 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,578 Leslie starring in your movies I think is the dopest shit ever. 972 00:41:35,620 --> 00:41:42,460 I think her star and that star shining brighter over the years 973 00:41:42,502 --> 00:41:45,005 through the produced by or written by 974 00:41:45,046 --> 00:41:47,632 or directed by her husband, 975 00:41:47,674 --> 00:41:51,052 I think there's no better sign of alignment 976 00:41:51,094 --> 00:41:54,222 in the business than that. 977 00:41:54,264 --> 00:41:55,724 Where did the decision come from 978 00:41:55,765 --> 00:41:57,726 to, like, collab and work together? 979 00:41:57,767 --> 00:42:00,645 -Well, we met on "The Cable Guy," 980 00:42:00,687 --> 00:42:02,313 and then, you know, there was discussion of like, 981 00:42:02,355 --> 00:42:03,940 "Should we do this? Would this be fun? 982 00:42:03,982 --> 00:42:06,151 Would it not be fun?" And we waited a while 983 00:42:06,192 --> 00:42:07,777 before we did it again, 984 00:42:07,819 --> 00:42:10,030 and then we did it on "The 40-Year-Old Virgin" 985 00:42:10,071 --> 00:42:13,283 with this big sequence where's she's Nicky the drunk driver. 986 00:42:13,324 --> 00:42:15,952 You know, so it's the sequence where Steve makes the mistake 987 00:42:15,994 --> 00:42:19,706 of thinking, "Oh, if you want to get with a woman, 988 00:42:19,748 --> 00:42:22,459 find a drunk woman," and then everything goes wrong. 989 00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:24,294 She crashes the car. She vomits on him. 990 00:42:24,336 --> 00:42:27,088 And Leslie was just so riotously funny. 991 00:42:27,130 --> 00:42:28,798 -She was funny. -And how she figured out 992 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,135 how to do that was she went out with Seth, 993 00:42:32,177 --> 00:42:35,680 and Seth, who was in the movie 994 00:42:35,722 --> 00:42:37,599 and also one of the producers of the movie -- 995 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,977 they went out, and Seth was gonna videotape Leslie drunk 996 00:42:41,019 --> 00:42:44,230 so Leslie could see what she's like drunk. 997 00:42:44,272 --> 00:42:46,649 And they went out -- -Such in-depth work. 998 00:42:46,691 --> 00:42:49,986 Such in-depth work. -And Leslie wanted to see it, 999 00:42:50,028 --> 00:42:52,655 and afterwards Leslie came home and she watched the video of it, 1000 00:42:52,697 --> 00:42:55,408 and she's like, "Oh, my God. 1001 00:42:55,450 --> 00:42:57,452 I always thought I was, like, adorable and cute, 1002 00:42:57,494 --> 00:43:00,372 but I think I'm really annoying when I'm drunk." 1003 00:43:00,413 --> 00:43:02,540 -Oh, my God. -And she created 1004 00:43:02,582 --> 00:43:04,709 this incredible character that was just so far beyond 1005 00:43:04,751 --> 00:43:07,462 what you would assume that would be, 1006 00:43:07,504 --> 00:43:09,464 and it became kind of an iconic thing. 1007 00:43:09,506 --> 00:43:10,757 And then it was just like steps, 1008 00:43:10,799 --> 00:43:12,926 like, what else could be collaborate on? 1009 00:43:12,967 --> 00:43:15,428 So a movie like "Knocked Up," 1010 00:43:15,470 --> 00:43:17,430 you know, most of it is fabricated. 1011 00:43:17,472 --> 00:43:19,474 Some of it is influenced by things we went through 1012 00:43:19,516 --> 00:43:21,518 or things our friends went through. 1013 00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:23,853 But, you know, it's created together. 1014 00:43:23,895 --> 00:43:25,855 We're talking about it. 1015 00:43:25,897 --> 00:43:28,525 You know, she's telling me ideas for scenes and attitudes. 1016 00:43:28,566 --> 00:43:32,612 And that's why it works, because it's a true collaboration. 1017 00:43:32,654 --> 00:43:35,865 And then "This is 40" was the largest extension of us 1018 00:43:35,907 --> 00:43:38,535 talking about our lives and where we were at 1019 00:43:38,576 --> 00:43:41,538 and then creating that world. -Yeah, yeah. 1020 00:43:41,579 --> 00:43:43,248 Wait a second. Just stop right here. 1021 00:43:43,289 --> 00:43:45,041 We gotta pay some bills, guys. We'll take a quick break. 1022 00:43:45,083 --> 00:43:47,252 We'll be right back with Judd Apatow after this. 1023 00:43:47,293 --> 00:43:54,551 ** 1024 00:43:54,592 --> 00:43:56,594 -That is good wine, by the way. -I told you. Cheers. 1025 00:43:56,636 --> 00:43:59,764 -Like, for real. -Cheers. 1026 00:43:59,806 --> 00:44:06,896 ** 1027 00:44:11,317 --> 00:44:16,364 ** 1028 00:44:16,406 --> 00:44:18,033 -Welcome back to "Hart to Heart." 1029 00:44:18,074 --> 00:44:20,118 So, Judd, when you go 1030 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,204 and you start to go touch all of the people 1031 00:44:23,246 --> 00:44:27,417 that came from the wheel -- you know, the wheel of Judd, 1032 00:44:27,459 --> 00:44:31,379 that thing -- and you see all of these people now sitting 1033 00:44:31,421 --> 00:44:34,174 at the highest levels of stardom, 1034 00:44:34,215 --> 00:44:36,509 what are the relationships like today? 1035 00:44:36,551 --> 00:44:39,346 Are you still actively in touch with the bulk? 1036 00:44:39,387 --> 00:44:43,475 Or is it, you know, sporadic conversations here and there? 1037 00:44:43,516 --> 00:44:46,770 Just, where's the friendships, or where are they not at today? 1038 00:44:46,811 --> 00:44:48,938 -Well, you know, for some of them, 1039 00:44:48,980 --> 00:44:51,107 we talk all the time. For some, it's just like 1040 00:44:51,149 --> 00:44:53,568 when you bump into people. 1041 00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:55,487 For me, I'm so proud of everyone. 1042 00:44:55,528 --> 00:44:58,490 You know, I feel I get way too much credit, 1043 00:44:58,531 --> 00:45:01,409 because I'm a scout in a lot of ways, right? 1044 00:45:01,451 --> 00:45:05,080 So I'm a giant comedy fan so I might see a young person, 1045 00:45:05,121 --> 00:45:07,582 maybe it's even, like, a 16-year-old person 1046 00:45:07,624 --> 00:45:09,250 when we're doing "Freaks and Geeks," 1047 00:45:09,292 --> 00:45:12,003 and I think, as a fan of comedy, I wanna watch that person. 1048 00:45:12,045 --> 00:45:13,296 -Okay. -Or maybe they get a little 1049 00:45:13,338 --> 00:45:15,924 older and it's as simple as 1050 00:45:15,965 --> 00:45:18,385 if a movie starred Seth, I would go. 1051 00:45:18,426 --> 00:45:19,719 -Okay. -And I'd be excited. 1052 00:45:19,761 --> 00:45:22,347 -Okay. -And so it's all as a fan, 1053 00:45:22,389 --> 00:45:24,557 and then it's, what can I do to help make that happen? 1054 00:45:24,599 --> 00:45:26,351 What contribution can I make? 1055 00:45:26,393 --> 00:45:28,019 Sometimes I make a big contribution. 1056 00:45:28,061 --> 00:45:29,979 Sometimes, like, they don't need much at all. 1057 00:45:30,021 --> 00:45:32,273 But the thing that connects it all is, like, 1058 00:45:32,315 --> 00:45:35,527 all those people I want to see. 1059 00:45:35,568 --> 00:45:38,947 And I think, like, when I was a kid, I loved Steve Martin. 1060 00:45:38,988 --> 00:45:41,700 I think they're all Steve Martin or they're all Gilda Radner. 1061 00:45:41,741 --> 00:45:45,495 So the fact that Seth and Evan direct 1062 00:45:45,537 --> 00:45:48,498 and John Daley directs and writes... 1063 00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:50,709 -Insane. -...and, you know, how many 1064 00:45:50,750 --> 00:45:54,546 people, like, whatever, Jason Segel 1065 00:45:54,587 --> 00:45:57,966 creates TV shows and directs things. 1066 00:45:58,008 --> 00:46:00,135 That's what's exciting, is that 1067 00:46:00,176 --> 00:46:02,846 a simple encouragement that I got -- 1068 00:46:02,887 --> 00:46:04,431 and I'm not doing anything that interesting, 1069 00:46:04,472 --> 00:46:07,767 other than saying, "If you want to do really good stuff, 1070 00:46:07,809 --> 00:46:08,977 you're probably gonna have to write it for yourself." 1071 00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:10,854 -Yeah. -No one's gonna hand you 1072 00:46:10,895 --> 00:46:13,189 a script and it's perfect. They know you. 1073 00:46:13,231 --> 00:46:15,275 They know all your gifts. Like, you're gonna have to 1074 00:46:15,316 --> 00:46:16,818 kinda do it yourself. 1075 00:46:16,860 --> 00:46:20,321 How many people took that advice and pulled it off -- 1076 00:46:20,363 --> 00:46:23,324 that's what's most exciting, what they did. 1077 00:46:23,366 --> 00:46:29,122 -The fact that Seth was directing before he was 28, 1078 00:46:29,164 --> 00:46:32,834 the fact that Seth was writing -- 1079 00:46:32,876 --> 00:46:36,212 like a real writer on television series -- 1080 00:46:36,254 --> 00:46:38,840 and the fact that Jason Segel was writing 1081 00:46:38,882 --> 00:46:41,509 and developing his own series and movies, 1082 00:46:41,551 --> 00:46:43,511 like, I watched them, Judd. 1083 00:46:43,553 --> 00:46:45,680 I was right there with them. 1084 00:46:45,722 --> 00:46:47,682 So I remember going over to Jason's house 1085 00:46:47,724 --> 00:46:50,894 and Jason was like, "Kev, read some of these scenes with me. 1086 00:46:50,935 --> 00:46:52,520 It's from this thing I was writing." 1087 00:46:52,562 --> 00:46:53,855 And I was like, "What do you mean, you're writing?" 1088 00:46:53,897 --> 00:46:55,231 "I'm working on this TV show." 1089 00:46:55,273 --> 00:46:58,026 Jason had bought Final Draft. -Yeah. 1090 00:46:58,068 --> 00:46:59,527 -I remember I left Jason's house -- 1091 00:46:59,569 --> 00:47:02,447 this is a true story -- Jason Segel. 1092 00:47:02,489 --> 00:47:04,532 So for our viewers here, 1093 00:47:04,574 --> 00:47:06,951 Judd made Jason and myself live together 1094 00:47:06,993 --> 00:47:08,870 when we were doing "North Hollywood." 1095 00:47:08,912 --> 00:47:09,871 -Yes. -You're gonna love this story. 1096 00:47:09,913 --> 00:47:12,665 And living with Jason, 1097 00:47:12,707 --> 00:47:15,543 two things I gravitated towards instantly. 1098 00:47:15,585 --> 00:47:17,796 Jason had a huge Mac, 1099 00:47:17,837 --> 00:47:21,633 and on that computer, every day Jason was writing, 1100 00:47:21,675 --> 00:47:24,469 and I would, like, be in the living room 1101 00:47:24,511 --> 00:47:27,430 and he would ask me did I think things were funny, etc. 1102 00:47:27,472 --> 00:47:31,142 And I remember Final Draft, and I was like, "What is that?" 1103 00:47:31,184 --> 00:47:33,353 He was like, "Final Draft. it basically helps you 1104 00:47:33,395 --> 00:47:36,398 with the structure of what a script is supposed to be. 1105 00:47:36,439 --> 00:47:38,233 So all of this stuff, I just have to make sure 1106 00:47:38,274 --> 00:47:40,151 that I'm telling my story correctly 1107 00:47:40,193 --> 00:47:43,905 but my cut-to's and interior, exterior -- 1108 00:47:43,947 --> 00:47:45,907 this gives it all to you. 1109 00:47:45,949 --> 00:47:48,118 It's the program you're just supposed to have." 1110 00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:50,620 I said, "So Final Draft is what you need?" 1111 00:47:50,662 --> 00:47:53,748 "If you're trying to write, Kev, you gotta get Final Draft." 1112 00:47:53,790 --> 00:47:55,709 I went out and bought Final Draft. 1113 00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:58,044 I didn't even have a fucking computer. 1114 00:47:58,086 --> 00:48:01,214 I didn't have a computer, Judd. I had no place to put it. 1115 00:48:01,256 --> 00:48:04,259 I spent $300-and-something on Final Draft, 1116 00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:06,428 and I came home and I was like, "Jason, so I got it. 1117 00:48:06,469 --> 00:48:08,805 Like, what do I do now? 1118 00:48:08,847 --> 00:48:10,390 Do I set it up on your computer?" 1119 00:48:10,432 --> 00:48:13,935 He's like, "You gotta get your own computer." 1120 00:48:13,977 --> 00:48:16,563 I had to go buy a Dell, and without knowing, 1121 00:48:16,604 --> 00:48:18,314 I just used to start writing shit. 1122 00:48:18,356 --> 00:48:20,525 I didn't know what the fuck I was writing, 1123 00:48:20,567 --> 00:48:22,444 but I was writing it because Jason was doing it 1124 00:48:22,485 --> 00:48:24,821 and Seth were doing it, and they were doing it 1125 00:48:24,863 --> 00:48:26,448 because you were doing it, 1126 00:48:26,489 --> 00:48:30,368 so naturally I got into the habit early on of creating 1127 00:48:30,410 --> 00:48:33,371 because I was in an environment where that's all they did. 1128 00:48:33,413 --> 00:48:35,373 Amy would come over and we would all hang out, 1129 00:48:35,415 --> 00:48:38,960 we were all laughing and punching up people's scripts -- 1130 00:48:39,002 --> 00:48:41,838 not sold, but the idea that we would sell, 1131 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,466 or they would sell, is what we were all focused on. 1132 00:48:44,507 --> 00:48:48,928 That circle, that bond -- I'll never forget it, 1133 00:48:48,970 --> 00:48:51,473 I'll never forget when I got the privy -- 1134 00:48:51,514 --> 00:48:54,017 like, it was a privilege of being a part of that 1135 00:48:54,059 --> 00:48:55,977 because now I look back and look at all of us. 1136 00:48:56,019 --> 00:48:59,272 -Yeah. -Like, it worked. 1137 00:48:59,314 --> 00:49:03,276 Your suggestions and your information -- 1138 00:49:03,318 --> 00:49:08,782 it was used at the highest level from every single source. 1139 00:49:08,823 --> 00:49:11,368 There's not a bigger compliment to who you are 1140 00:49:11,409 --> 00:49:15,330 and to what you have done, man. And this moment, Judd, 1141 00:49:15,372 --> 00:49:17,874 I'm telling you for me, it's about -- 1142 00:49:17,916 --> 00:49:22,671 it's about flowers in real time. 1143 00:49:22,712 --> 00:49:24,422 And I thank you. 1144 00:49:24,464 --> 00:49:28,134 I thank you for my first opportunity. 1145 00:49:28,176 --> 00:49:31,680 I thank you for my first real audition. 1146 00:49:31,721 --> 00:49:34,182 I thank you for my first pilot. 1147 00:49:34,224 --> 00:49:38,937 I thank you for my first introduction into Hollywood. 1148 00:49:38,978 --> 00:49:43,692 I don't have any of it without Judd Apatow's simple, 1149 00:49:43,733 --> 00:49:46,361 "I saw this guy's tape. Can I meet him?" 1150 00:49:46,403 --> 00:49:49,489 That's all you fucking said. "Can I meet him?" 1151 00:49:49,531 --> 00:49:51,408 And after meeting me, you followed through, 1152 00:49:51,449 --> 00:49:54,160 and although all those things didn't go and become, 1153 00:49:54,202 --> 00:49:58,081 you put me in this pilot, "40-Year-Old Virgin," the cameo 1154 00:49:58,123 --> 00:50:00,500 becomes one of the biggest cameos, 1155 00:50:00,542 --> 00:50:03,336 something that the notoriety I got from it expanded. 1156 00:50:03,378 --> 00:50:07,549 -It's everywhere now. Isn't it, like, a TikTok? 1157 00:50:07,590 --> 00:50:09,926 -If people understood how you did it... 1158 00:50:09,968 --> 00:50:11,678 "Judd, so what do you want me to do?" 1159 00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:14,305 "Just, we'll figure it out. Go Kev, and you and Romany..." 1160 00:50:14,347 --> 00:50:16,307 -Well, I certainly didn't pitch any of those ideas. 1161 00:50:16,349 --> 00:50:18,643 -You said go. 1162 00:50:18,685 --> 00:50:22,230 -If anyone thought I wrote that, I would be cancelled instantly. 1163 00:50:22,272 --> 00:50:25,191 -That was all me and Romany. It was all me and Romany. 1164 00:50:25,233 --> 00:50:27,444 But it came from you just going, "We'll figure it out, Kev. 1165 00:50:27,485 --> 00:50:29,070 Just go. I think it will be a great thing." 1166 00:50:29,112 --> 00:50:33,241 -Yeah. -But just your energy, man, 1167 00:50:33,283 --> 00:50:38,496 your energy and understanding and support to the young talent, 1168 00:50:38,538 --> 00:50:41,332 to the opportunity for the young talent -- 1169 00:50:41,374 --> 00:50:42,876 it's unmatched. 1170 00:50:42,917 --> 00:50:46,796 And your flowers are ones that, 1171 00:50:46,838 --> 00:50:48,298 dude, they'll forever be given. 1172 00:50:48,340 --> 00:50:50,091 And this is just my version of it. 1173 00:50:50,133 --> 00:50:52,093 So I thank you for coming on "Hart to Heart," 1174 00:50:52,135 --> 00:50:53,762 I thank you for talking to me, 1175 00:50:53,803 --> 00:50:55,847 and I thank you for talking about shit 1176 00:50:55,889 --> 00:50:58,433 that people ultimately just need to hear -- 1177 00:50:58,475 --> 00:50:59,726 your story, your journey. 1178 00:50:59,768 --> 00:51:01,269 Ain't none of this shit easy. 1179 00:51:01,311 --> 00:51:04,606 -Well, I'm completely blown away by everything 1180 00:51:04,647 --> 00:51:09,361 that you've done, and even from when you were very young, 1181 00:51:09,402 --> 00:51:12,405 we were always like, "Kevin is the funniest." 1182 00:51:12,447 --> 00:51:15,784 And to see what you turned it into is remarkable. 1183 00:51:15,825 --> 00:51:17,285 You have way more energy than me, 1184 00:51:17,327 --> 00:51:21,456 and I don't have vegan restaurants. 1185 00:51:21,498 --> 00:51:24,626 But there's still time for me. -Yes. 1186 00:51:24,668 --> 00:51:29,255 -But I'm so glad to see what you manifested it into 1187 00:51:29,297 --> 00:51:31,257 and how you're giving it back 1188 00:51:31,299 --> 00:51:33,259 and how much you care about giving it back, 1189 00:51:33,301 --> 00:51:35,261 because we all know and we watch everyone -- 1190 00:51:35,303 --> 00:51:36,805 there's very few people even talking 1191 00:51:36,846 --> 00:51:39,516 about helping other people. -Yes. 1192 00:51:39,557 --> 00:51:42,143 -That's why what you do really sticks out, you know? 1193 00:51:42,185 --> 00:51:44,896 It's so fantastic that you do it but it's also so fascinating 1194 00:51:44,938 --> 00:51:47,982 that so few people say, "Now that I'm here, 1195 00:51:48,024 --> 00:51:50,985 let me just pull everybody up with me." 1196 00:51:51,027 --> 00:51:53,405 -Well, I am a product of my environment, 1197 00:51:53,446 --> 00:51:56,157 and you were the first real example 1198 00:51:56,199 --> 00:51:58,034 of a dope creative environment, 1199 00:51:58,076 --> 00:52:00,495 so I'm glad I got to tell you that in real time, 1200 00:52:00,537 --> 00:52:03,123 and I'm glad I got to do it on a platform like this. 1201 00:52:03,164 --> 00:52:04,332 -And I'm glad I wasn't wrong about you. 1202 00:52:04,374 --> 00:52:06,251 -There you go. -What if -- 1203 00:52:06,292 --> 00:52:08,128 -This would have been fucked up. -What if you were a disaster? 1204 00:52:08,169 --> 00:52:09,838 -Yeah, whole interview would have been shit. 1205 00:52:09,879 --> 00:52:12,716 Yeah, whole interview would have been shit if I was a mess. 1206 00:52:12,757 --> 00:52:15,301 -You were just back in Philly. It just did not work. 1207 00:52:15,343 --> 00:52:17,512 -He fucked it up. [ Laughter ] 1208 00:52:17,554 --> 00:52:20,181 He went back to the block. -Yeah. 1209 00:52:20,223 --> 00:52:22,017 -Guys, this is "Hart to Heart." This is Judd Apatow. 1210 00:52:22,058 --> 00:52:24,686 Judd, you're fucking amazing. Thank you, man. 1211 00:52:24,728 --> 00:52:26,980 -Love you, buddy. 1212 00:52:27,022 --> 00:52:28,440 -This was so good. 1213 00:52:28,481 --> 00:52:30,233 So good and honest. 1214 00:52:30,275 --> 00:52:32,152 -Yeah, that was fun. -So honest. 1215 00:52:32,193 --> 00:52:36,322 No bullshit. Like, you're talking about Jim 1216 00:52:36,364 --> 00:52:40,410 and, dude, Ben Stiller, Garry, like... 1217 00:52:40,452 --> 00:52:49,210 **