- And you could just-- you could style your bonnet, did you know that?
If they're big enough, you can style it. You can, like, put it to the side.
- Yeah, exactly. - You can make it big.
You can put in a ponytail 'cause it's super, it's super big.
So, you can like.
- You can ponytail your bonnet.
- Revelation! - You can ponytail your bonnet.
TRACEE ELLIS ROSS: Every kink, curl, and coil
in a Black woman's crown has a hair tale.
Who did your hair?
OPRAH WINFREY: So, that hair journey started on the porch
with my grandmother braiding my hair.
TRACEE: We created a place for us to gather our stories.
- I never know what my hair will do.
TRACEE: Honoring our identity, culture, beauty, and humanity.
- Braided. - Locks.
PERSON 1: Cornrows. - Twist-out.
PERSON 2: Hot comb. PERSON 3: Relaxed.
PERSON 4: Any style you want.
Big. PERSON 5: Versatile.
PERSON 6: Lush. - Beautiful.
PERSON 7: Resilient. - Hair.
- What version of myself do I wanna be?
- You do not need hair to wear a crown.
- Whoop!
- My hair is already laced, so.
[both laughing]
TRACEE: I'm Tracee Ellis Ross.
Join me as we celebrate the truth of who we are
through the wondrous world of our hair.
♪ upbeat music playing ♪
You have always been--
[Tracee laughs] - Have always been what?
[laughs] What?
- You've always been such, um, a bright light, a deep soul.
And, and I've watched you become
the young woman that you were.
Yeah. - Yeah.
No, thank you so much.
I mean, I never really had a chance to really sit down
and have this type of conversation
about... just hair and, like, your journey
and... it's, it's really cool.
♪
TRACEE: Marsai Martin is one of the brightest young stars in Hollywood.
- Hey, y'all. Marsai Martin here.
TRACEE: The definition of big boss energy.
Wise beyond her years, Marsai knows what she wants.
- You are the executive producer
of this movie. - Yeah!
- You have a new production company, Genius.
And like a boss!
TRACEE: She runs wild with imagination and agency.
Her future is now free for her to decide.
Marsai is Freedom's Heir.
Michaela Angela Davis joins this conversation.
Hi. - Hello. [giggles]
- We're gonna get the name thing outta the way.
MARSAI MARTIN: Yes. - What is your full name?
- My full name is Caila Marsai Martin.
Of course, you guys know me as Marsai Martin,
but my real name is Caila.
- That's what my family calls me, Caila.
- Okay, yeah, 'cause your name's Michaela. - Michaela--
MARSAI: Yeah! - But only my family.
- Right, same here. MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS: Caila. Okay.
- I call you Caila... MARSAI: Yes.
- ...which is the way you were introduced to me... MARSAI: Yes.
- ...when we first met when you were--
- Like... nine? TRACEE: Nine?
MARSAI: Yeah, eight or nine. At nine for sure.
- Nine years old and you are now 17.
- It's been a minute. Yeah. - It's been a minute.
- Who did your hair?
- My mom always, always did my hair
when I was younger, back in my Dallas, Texas days.
She would do different twist-outs,
and the deep conditioning Sundays and, like, all, all the above.
But my mom is my, my main caregiver when it comes to my hair.
I lived in a small town called Little Elm, Texas.
It was, literally-- It was so small that it was, like,
my gas station, my school, and then my house.
It was really, really small.
TRACEE: There were no other houses? - There were other--
[all laughing]
- My house. MARSAI: There were, like, other houses,
but probably each person in that house went to my school.
Like, we all kinda knew each other.
And my great-grandmother lived with me.
And then my mom's mom lived with us as well.
So, I've always grew up around just women in my life
and my dad.
- And I had the honor of knowing her...
- Yes. - ...her grandma as well.
MARSAI: My, my grandma, before she passed,
she was such a joy.
Like, she was, like, the definition of, like, switchin'.
She would wear... [chuckles] wigs
and you would just see wigs everywhere. TRACEE: She was done.
- She was done to the T.
My, my mom usually had the same type of hairstyle with her, with her, uh, curl.
She has a lighter hair tone than me,
but it was, like, different, different curl styles.
Yeah, they were for sure, like, inspo in my life, all the way.
♪
- My mom would come to school on Picture Day to redo my hair
'cause she knew, recess, that we were gon' mess it up,
so my mom would come with a curlin' iron...
- Wow. - ...and redo our hair.
And she would bring our clothes, too. - My mom, before Picture Day,
always burnin' my forehead.
- Oh no. DANEHSIA: Really? My mom--
- I just had that, that swoop over the eye.
- Yes, to hide it. - Block that burn mark from the flat iron.
- My mom would give me two ringlet curls,
and then she would put the rest of my hair up on a-- um, in a bun.
She would-- It-- My mom was ready to go.
- I always joke that hair is, is like a map of the, the Atlantic ocean, right?
We have Africa on one side, there's Europe in there.
There's the indigenous parts.
Hair has many different textures, just even in one space.
And so, it just is reminiscent of the good history, the bad history.
It all sort of unites in hair.
♪
- Of course, when I started in Texas,
I started out, like, literally just my natural hair only.
Throughout the weekends, my mom would just twist it out
and have it be ready for, like, the next couple days of, uh, school.
- You know what I think of?
- What? - I think of the video of you
singing the Beyoncé song. MARSAI: Oh yes!
- Ohh! Yes. MARSAI: Literally that. That's, like--
That whole meme of a video.
♪ Come on, baby, it's you ♪
♪ You're the one that gives your all ♪
♪ You're the one I can always call ♪
That's how my hair was 24/7.
♪ Love on top, ooh ♪
- Is there a pivotal moment in your life around hair
that you could share with us?
MARSAI: When my sister was born,
I was wondering if she would have the same type of hair issues
or the hair journeys that I've been through.
There's been levels, or even chapters, when it comes to my hair.
I went to school with a lot of, a lot of white girls
that just had, just simple blonde, straight hair.
And every day, before recess,
they would put water in their hair, like a cup of water,
and then they would, like, do this to their hair.
They would be all sleeky and glossy or whatever.
And, and I would see that almost every single day.
So, I thought my hair would look better like that, too,
'cause I just saw other people doing that.
TRACEE: Yeah. - So, one day, I was like, "Mom,
I think I wa-- I want my hair straight."
I didn't tell her the reason why I-- She, she was like, "Yeah, okay, sure."
So, I get my hair straightened.
- You got it pressed? - Yeah, I just got it pressed.
Just, like, a little hot comb, and then--
- Did your mom do it or did you go somewhere?
- My mom did it, in the kitchen. TRACEE: Okay.
♪
- When I went to school, all my little white friends
had their little, long hair.
So, I really started thinkin' I was one of them.
Like, you know-- - Can we talk?
- I had a real identity crisis.
I was not aware of myself bein' Black.
- At what age? 'Cause I, I, I had the same.
- So, I was-- that was-- I was five. - For me, it was the same.
- I had, pfft... I'll say up until... at least sixth grade.
- You and me both! ELIZA: Yeah.
- And I think it's that mean middle school that we're talkin' about.
- Right? You know, it was just, like, certain things that kept me out the loop
where I didn't feel Black.
'Cause I used to love Barbie dolls when I was little.
I came from the Barbie doll era, okay?
So, I used to always look to the Barbie dolls
as to how my hair should be.
NARRATOR 1: You can get Beauty Secrets Barbie doll ready by pressing her back.
NARRATOR 2: You can change Magic Curl's hair as often as you like.
- If you watched The Brady Bunch, and I'm dating myself,
but if you watched The Brady Bunch growing up,
you knew that Marcia brushed her hair a hundred times a night,
and that was supposed to be what you did
for beautiful hair because Marcia was supposed to have this beautiful hair.
We thought, "Well, we don't know a Black girl
who's brushing her hair a hundred times a night."
Our hair was supposed to be something bad.
Our hair was supposed to be something that we wanted to change.
We were like, "No, our hair is actually something
"that we've really come together to have a strong community around,
and that there's strength in the culture."
- You know, I had a plan in my mind 'cause I'm like,
"I'm-- My hair gon' be just as sleek as theirs."
My mom specifically told me,
"Do not do nothing to your hair
'cause you-- If-- Shoot." - Shoot.
- You know, like, you will-- - She, she said, "Girl."
- "You will not look the same when you get back in this car."
So, let me tell you, I went to school,
I was laughin' with my friends, got a cup of water.
Like, couple minutes go by, I'm talkin' to my friend on the swings
and they like, "What's wrong with your hair?!"
I'm like, "What?!" It's like.
[laughing]
"What's wrong with your hair?!" I'm like, "What are you talking about?"
- You're like, "I did what you did!" - I did what you did.
- Did you go look in the mirror and see your hair?
MARSAI: Yes, I did. - And what did you think?
- I remember going through just so many emotions.
I felt embarrassed. MICHAELA/TRACEE: Mm.
- I felt confused 'cause I was like,
"Why isn't my hair doin' what theirs is doing?"
I cried of embarrassment in the bathroom of, uh, my public school.
- You know, it's funny 'cause we, uh-- I was laughing out of identification,
'cause obviously, I have my story like that.
You have your story like that.
But it's those moments when you had the realization...
- Yeah. - ...and that the embarrassment,
um, is us seeing ourselves in the mirror
of... somebody else's idea of us...
- That's right. - Right.
- ...and how that matches up.
Those are tough moments in our lives. - Right, for sure.
- So, you spent the whole day poofed out?
- Right, and my mom told me not to touch it.
And... yeah, I'm, I'm gonna get in trouble.
So, I get in the car. She didn't get mad. She definitely didn't get mad.
She just explained what my hair does.
I think for my mom,
that was finally a thing to really explain what my hair is
and what it is, uh, to me
and how it's different from other hair types in the world.
And just the people that I go to school with...
MICHAELA: Mm. - ...versus my own
identification of myself and the idea of what my hair is.
For so long I've had this... this one look that I was so comfortable with
and I knew that looked, that looked beautiful.
It was, like, like, literally, a crown of mine that I was so proud of.
And then finally switching my crown,
it just was, like--
It was a weird check.
- That's a lot in one day.
- It is, it is. It is a lot in one day,
but it was, like, very, very, very confusing.
More, more confusing than embarrassment
'cause I was like... "How, how did this happen?"
All I did was put water in my hair like every other... girl in my school.
- Do you wanna talk a little bit about your relationship with your parents,
both of them and how they've allowed you, um, to find your way?
MARSAI: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you, if you know my parents,
they are so--
They're so connected to me.
Like... growing up, they were always super hands-on.
Then time went by,
became an actress... we moved to LA.
My dad moved first while my mom and I stayed here,
and my dad was... sleepin' on couches,
and trying to just make it by figuring out,
like, the job situation to where,
uh, we would, we would all be good when we moved over there.
Yeah, and then, finally, both-- we all moved into an apartment.
My dad would go to work.
Me and my mom would drive two, like-- almost two hours
to go to the Black-ish set.
And this was, like, season one, season two.
I don't know, it felt like a cool family unit.
Like, best friends... now coworkers.
And... I don't-- It just felt-- It felt very unique
to be honest. TRACEE: It's very unique.
They have really given you the space to be who you are.
- Exactly.
- Oh, test tubes! Like mother, like daughter.
- Those aren't test tubes. - Oh.
- I wanna work in advertising... like Dad.
TRACEE: And so, it sounds like from a young age,
you were already very specific about how you liked your hair.
- Yes, but it was also, like, the only way I knew my hair could look.
TRACEE: Okay. MARSAI: So, it was like,
"Oh, this is, this is kinda like my uniform."
But I loved it that way.
Now that I'm in, like, an industry where, uh, when you're on any set,
my hair was, like--
kind of, like, damaged going with, like, heat
on my hair all the time.
I'm very protective over my hair and so are my parents,
so I love-- I-I like to feel safe
that I know my hair's not gonna get damaged or messed up.
So, uh, I do protective styles often.
That's usually the reason why I'm in braids.
KIM: In LA, hair is a different thing here.
[all agreeing] I think LA was--
Feel like the last people to get into natural.
We are very Hollywood, glamour, long... uh, television.
I'm a model, I'm an actress, now I'm a reality star, I'm an influencer.
[indistinct chatter] Ah, ah, ah, we all of that.
Back on the East Coast, like in New York, they were doin' that natural hair
big back, you know, like, I wanna say 10 years ago,
they were doin' a lot of amazing-- They had little natural hair salons
and certain things like that.
So then, I started seeing more natural hair
when I would go outside of LA. [all agreeing]
But LA was just a little different, you know?
♪
- Damn, dawg. I got it, trust me.
- I was on a set where they did not have hair and makeup on deck.
And I-- And I'd been on that set for so long,
and it was super hot,
and my edges were just liftin', liftin', and liftin'.
And I've had the braids in for, like, a couple weeks,
and they just kinda puffed out.
So, my dad's like, "I got you, I got you.
Stay still, stay still." They just looked a mess.
[Marsai squeals] DAD: Stop movin'.
- It was really a crucial time for me to really understand my hair,
and my dad definitely guided me through it.
- You had a father that... that couch-surfed for you,
that laid down your edges, and he didn't even know how.
MARSAI: Yes. - That's love.
- That is, that is love... for sure, um.
He did terrible,
but... it, it was love. [laughing]
And I love the fact that he tried.
- That's it. - 'Cause a lotta people, a lotta people don't.
- So, you never relaxed your hair?
- Never.
- Okay. - Never.
It felt like it was easier for me
to just stick with what I know I'm comfortable with...
TRACEE: Mm-hm. - ...which was just my natural hair.
- Do you think your mama would've let you get a relaxer?
And would you know to ask for that? - Mm.
I think if I wanted it, we would talk about it.
- Mm. Mm-hm. - But no. [laughs] I don't, I don't--
- She's like, "Mm-hm." MARSAI: Just start by sayin',
no, I'm not hatin' on anybody who do got a relaxer, do you.
But n-no.
- Hair is often the dividing line in what is considered beautiful
and it's still measured in many instances,
even with a wonderful natural hair movement,
in relation to whiteness.
NARRATOR: I remember sitting in the kitchen
for what seemed like all day while my mother did my hair.
Today, it's a lot easier
thanks to PCJ Original Formula Relaxer with Nutrient Sheen.
DR. JOAN MORGAN: It becomes hard to tell what is our stuff,
what is being put upon us,
and certainly, it's still a way and a means
to keep Black women out of certain circles
and lower the glass ceiling for us.
♪
- My mom, she's always wanted me to embrace my natural hair
and see what I can run wild with that,
and-- - I feel like that's, like, the tagline for your book,
that's your book. MARSAI: Right.
Exactly. - Run Wild With That.
- Run Wild With That.
- Marsai Martin-- ALL: Run Wild With That.
[Tracee laughing] - Yes.
♪
TRACEE: You would come to rehearsals in your bonnet.
- Yeah, I would, I would I would come to rehearsal just...
- And, and Caila-- MARSAI: ...out there.
- Caila loves an extra, extra, extra large bonnet.
MARSAI: Abs-- Absolutely. [Tracee/Marsai laughing]
They, they would be huge.
- Like, way bigger than her head.
MARSAI: Yeah, for sure. And they're amazing, they are top tier.
- Top-tier bonnet. Top-tier bonnet. MARSAI: Yes! And you could just--
you could style your bonnet, did you know that?
If they're big enough, you can style it. You can, like, put it to the side.
- Yeah, exactly. - You can make it big.
You can, you can put in a ponytail
'cause it's super, it's super big, so you can, like--
- Okay, that's-- TRACEE: You can ponytail your bonnet.
- You can ponytail your bonnet. MICHAELA: Revelation!
♪
WOMAN: Mm-hm.
- Sometime, I put two bonnets on, honey.
- See, I saw a meme, and it said, um,
"A part of the Black experience is, like, wakin' up and wonderin'
"if you have a headache,
but then realizing your bonnet or your scarf was too tight."
And that's really why I don't like to do it.
Like, I say I'm lazy, but I just got a big head.
And they're all too tight. It hurts.
- I actually have about, like, five headscarves
because I just-- I can't imagine a night without it.
Yeah, I got a collection. Yes.
I just hope, like, no fire in the buildin' that happens,
I have to run out with my whole, you know, combination happenin',
but it sounds like you're ready. - That's why you gotta have cute ones.
- You gotta sleep cute! DANEHSIA: You stay ready.
[laughter] [indistinct chatter]
- That's right. In case I gotta run out in the middle of the night, I'm cute.
I got the cute pajamas on and I got the cute bonnet. I'm ready.
'Cause, you know, firemen are cute.
♪
- I think the internal... struggle around texture is,
"How do I keep it up? How do I protect it?"
You know, because the texture is so rich and fine
that if you don't invest in the upkeep, and... the maintenance, you know,
you could certainly lose your glory.
And so, I think that is, for me, the place of... what,
you know, the question becomes is, "Okay, who am I without my hair
and who am I with my hair?"
And that, I think, is the place of freedom... for not just me,
but I think for all Black women.
♪
- What was so fun about watching you
is your hair flipping,
and changing and becoming, like, girly then teeny-teen.
And then, I loved watching your hair change with your moods
and your attitudes and your outfits and--
- And I gotta give that to Araxi. Araxi, Araxi Lindsey, the queen.
She, from, from the beginning, always, like, was the best collaborator
when it came to my hair-- - Mine too.
- Right, exactly, so she really knew what was up
when it came to different styles and moods and all of that.
And protecting my hair.
She was the very first, like, real hairstylist that
really cared about my hair and not just how, like,
it looked to everyone else. - But the condition of it.
The care... The hair care. [all agreeing]
MARSAI: Mm-hm. - On a set.
- Yeah, which, which was monumental.
- Right, which was monumental, super rare.
TRACEE: And I think she established something
on our show that was real...
MARSAI: Yes. TRACEE: ... for our characters.
In terms of how Bow did her hair, you know,
it was always a thing for me, too, that I was like,
"This woman has five kids and she's a doctor."
Like, what do you think she's going to get her hair
done every week, get outta here.
- Yeah. [laughs] - You know, her hair's in braids
and then she leaves it alone,
or whatever it was, you know? - Yeah.
SHANIQUE: Natural hair, I think, is
much harder to maintain than relaxed hair.
- Exactly. - What?
- Like, hands down. - Yes, yes.
- It is. I mean, it all depends on how you feel comfortable
wearing your hair, right? - It's a beautiful struggle, though.
- If you wanna wash and go, you know, that's fine.
But if you feel like you may need to two-strand twist,
get it dry, then let it wait, then p-pull it out,
and, you know, do the thing.
I do think it's-- you know, takes a while.
♪
PAMELA FERRELL: I got a call from Julie Dash
to design hairstyles for this movie.
And when I finished, I said, "Okay, you know, I'm done."
And the actresses were like, "What do you mean you're done?
You, you can't, you can't just fix our hair and leave."
And so, I ended up staying.
The impact of Daughters of the Dust, when it came out,
it wasn't surprising.
I was honored to do the hair, uh, for that movie.
The hairstyles were just so beautiful.
Even today, when I look at it, you know, I'm like, "Oh my god,
I did hand rolls on there. We did the [inaudible]."
I just found different regions and areas in the world
that I kind of duplicated those looks
so that I could kind of be true to, um, hairstyles
that women would've worn
given an environment where they had time and they could celebrate their hair.
It really empowered and uplift women
to know that we can look like that.
- My hairstylist, Alex, and my wardrobe stylist, Bryon,
they kinda came up with this little style right here, so.
- Mm, mm, mm, mm.
Today... MARSAI: Yeah.
- ...when you chose your hairstyle... MARSAI: Mm-hm.
- ...did you think about it in advance?
Were you like, "This is it"?
MARSAI: Well, the more I grow up,
the more whoever is doing my hair, I wanna, like, figure out what they see.
- Mm-hm. - 'Cause, of course, I know being a hairstylist,
they have a journey for them as well
and what they wanna present for whoever they're touching
and whoever their clients are.
And just having that collaboration means a lot to me in creativity.
So, it was definitely a mixed thing.
Of course, if someone puts somethin' crazy in my hair,
I'd be like... "No, not, not this. [laughing]
Do somethin' different."
But, yeah, I'm, I'm very collaborative.
- Beautiful.
♪
- I'm curious, for you, what it's like
when your own personal journey of growing up
and learning how to express yourself
intersects with your job.
- There's definitely times where I feel like I had to mute myself
because of the situations around me
or, like, even my first times in different things, uh,
I felt like I had to be quiet or stay back
to, uh, let someone else shine or take the beats.
- What helped that change for you?
- Just growing up and also, my parents as well.
They've always instilled in me that I can just be myself
and don't hide or shy away, um, my true self for... for anybody.
Okay, it smells like something's burning.
I think my hair's on fire!
- You are crazy, Diane.
[screams]
I feel like it's important to talk about the hair episode of Black-ish.
'Cause that was the first time where
my real-life hair journey kinda came into a character,
but their hair journey was different than mine.
Diane, she goes into the salon to figure out
any other, uh, styles or any other protective ways
to figure out--
Just figure, just figure out what her next hair journey is.
She goes through all these different experiences
and then figures out like,
"Hm, like, maybe I just stick with the perm
and stick with... whatever, whatever--"
- As if your-- As if Diane's hair
has always been relaxed. - Like, as if, yeah, as if
throughout the past seven years, at the time, being on the set,
my hair has always been relaxed.
- And as we stated earlier--
- I've never relaxed my hair.
TRACEE: Caila has never relaxed her hair.
- Oh, that's complicated. MARSAI: Yes.
- So, no one had expressed that they were utilizing Diane's story,
Caila's character, to really tell
a universal story of Black girls and their hair.
- Right.
- What's wrong?
- I'm never putting that stuff in my hair again.
I am done with relaxers!
- Are you havin' a hair freakout?
- Can you articulate, specifically, what about the hair episode snagged you?
- I, I think it's the fact that she,
she had a relaxer throughout all the years.
- Like all of a sudden, they were saying something.
- Yeah, all of a sudden, they were saying something that,
of course, it wasn't true, but it wasn't true about my character.
It wasn't the way that I... based her as.
- And it wasn't the way Diane had worn her hair.
- Exactly. It definitely wasn't the way that I wore my hair at all.
It was just like, "Only for this episode, this is how it was gonna happen."
And I'm like, "No."
- So, it, it was bringing in two very opposing stories.
- And, and let me, let me say,
I have never been to-- the one to, like,
be like, "Hey, fix this
or, like, write this or figure this out." TRACEE: I don't wanna do this.
- Like, I don't wanna do this.
I have, I have never been that one. - No, that was me.
[laughing] - That was-- It was a little bit of her.
She was like, "Um, excuse-- What is this?"
- Yeah, yeah, okay. - Like, it was, mm, you know?
- That was not her role. - That wasn't, that wasn't my role.
[laughing] But like, like I said, I'm not, I'm not one--
Well, now I am, especially being in this circle of producing,
but back then, I was kinda like,
"Mm, like, do I, do I say somethin',
"or how, how do I say it to them that... that I wanna switch something
and I wanna change something?"
- For me, um... you know, makes me teary,
but I felt very protective.
But not to steal your voice...
MARSAI: Mm-hm. - ...but to support you in using your voice,
um, and exploring what it was that was making you uncomfortable.
Like, try and express it, so that you can express it
to the right people.
We had a meeting with the producers.
- Yeah, we did. - And what I said to Caila before
is I said, "I will let you do all the talking,
"but if you feel like you can't say what you're trying to say,
give me a look and I'll try and step in."
- And that was the first time I really felt, um, empowered
to really step up and really say somethin' about
something that I didn't realize was so deep in me
to really explain in the proper way, which was hair.
BOW: Wow.
So... there's no wrong choice.
Trust your instincts... and you got this.
- Um, and then when we shot that one scene,
do you remember it was my birthday?
- It was your birthday.
- It was my birthday.
I wanted to stay with you. - Yeah.
- Um, so, I just stayed on set.
I just said, "I'm here. I'm just here."
MARSAI: It was a whole thing. It was super sweet.
As soon as we wrapped the episode,
then I got hyped that Jill Scott was a, a guest star.
[Tracee laughing] I was like, "Aye, [indistinct]."
MICHAELA: Right. MARSAI: How cool is that?
Uh, so, yeah, it was, it w-- it was a lot.
TRACEE: You did a beautiful job. - Thank you.
And now that I'm in my adulthood...
- Oh, my God. - ...growing into my adulthood,
I feel like that's essential to not shy away
and just kinda find myself in these very crucial times.
JESSICA CRUEL: Because this industry's been put on blast within the last,
I would say, five years,
things are beginning to change.
But it's also... not even about just having
a support team that is of color.
It's about education.
A lot of cosmetology schools don't require a textured hair course.
A lot of makeup programs don't have a lot of Black people
that they're servicing.
So, we have to make sure that we are training everyone
to handle anyone that comes into their chair,
whether that's on an editorial shoot or on a Hollywood set.
And we still have some work to do.
MARCIA: It's crazy what you have to do to, to book work.
Show up to set and if they don't know how to do your hair,
you better know how to do your hair, and you better know how to do it quickly.
I can't tell you how many times I've been on set
and it's like, "This is not my color and I'm about to go on camera."
Whoa! I have to crouch down in a corner,
pull out the color that matches my skin, touch myself up
because the makeup artist didn't get it right.
Or the hairstylist didn't understand that,
"Hey, I have extensions in, and they don't do
what you think they're gonna do."
Or, um, "That's not my hair color, or that's not even my hair texture."
♪
- Now, for the first time--
We talk about this Golden Age of Television that we're in,
but it's also a golden age of Black hair on television.
- I had no idea that Jabari would do something like that.
AYANA BYRD: Girlfriends really ushered it in
because we suddenly had Tracee Ellis Ross with natural hair
in LA, in a beautiful house, in, like, fashionable clothes.
I think it just blew open the door for what
America could expect to see natural hair looking like.
TRACEE: For Black women, our hair journey
is so much connected to our self-journey.
Like, I s-- I can chronicle my journey of self-acceptance
through my journey with my hair.
- That's crazy to think about, like, legit.
- And you now get to create a hair department...
- Yes, which is so cool. - ...on a set.
You get to say like, "I want somebody who,
"uh, if we're-- if our actors are on a set for seven hours,
"and it's hot and their edges start to puff up...
MARSAI: Right. - ..."that their father or their mother
"doesn't have to step in with a toothbrush.
- Exactly.
- "But we have a hair person who's gonna see that
and get that stuff handled."
- For sure, for sure. TRACEE: Yeah.
- And that's, that's the best part.
- In your career, you're... the youngest ever executive producer.
I mean, talk about it. How you doin'?
What you doin'? How you doin'? - I, I mean, I'm, I'm doing g-- I'm busy.
REPORTER: Believe it or not, at age 14,
Martin is the face and co-founder of Genius Productions in Los Angeles.
- But that's the reason why I made this production company,
was because-- so people, like-- everyone could feel welcome
and just to create more films for everyone,
and v-- that's very diverse and inclusive.
- She's busy. - Busy as heck.
TRACEE: Busy and, and-- - But still got school to do, like.
[Tracee laughing] - But still got school to do.
- Still got school to do.
- I have had the honor of witnessing
and being a part of your growing up.
I watched you become who you always were
and you're just continuing to do that, you know?
And I, and I hope that you continue to enjoy what you're building, growing,
and all of that because, um, it's special.
And then you get to give that freedom to the next generation.
♪
- Okay, but, like, honestly, Marsai Martin.
Yes, little boss. - We stan, we stan a little mini mogul,
okay? - Yes, a little mini mogul.
- She not even mini, mogul.
- Honestly... warms my heart. - I mean, when I was a kid,
I wish I could be her.
- When I was a kid-- If I was a kid now,
I would-- LESLIE: She's killin' it!
- She's killing it!
She allows, I think, for me, um, she's telling the next generation
to come as you are. - Yeah.
- That you will be accepted and you will be loved.
And honestly-- And not only that, but it's not--
When I see her, I don't see, um, anyone forcing her to be in a box
and I see her, like, being herself.
- Right, right. - The thing, too, with her is just, like,
she's talent, but I mean, she is also in the boardroom, right?
- Yes. - She E.P.-ing, she's, like,
her own production company, so she's, like, a powerhouse,
right? - Like Black hair, she is multifaceted.
- Hello. ALL: Yes!
- And she wears her hair amazing on the show.
Like, her hair be laid. - Yes!
[laughter] - Yes.
♪
MICHAELA: You're someone's hair hero.
I bet you there are girls all over,
can't wait to see what your hair looks like.
- I, I just would say with the level of... freedom
that I found with not only my hair,
but within myself, of what I can do in my... in my work and in my craft,
it's, it's kinda, it's kinda crazy to think about
'cause I didn't realize my hair could resonate truly
with what I go through in my everyday life.
Having the opportunity to have a seat at the table
and then being like, "Okay, what would your hair be like?
What would, what would you want this character to be portrayed as?"
And it just-- it means the world, so I think pushing that message of
just all types of different hair types, all types of different hair stories,
and how it, it really is just your crown.
♪
AYANA: When it comes to Black hair,
I think we're at a really
great time in popular culture, especially with television.
We used to see natural hair really pegged into this one little category.
They were an artist, they were a poet, they were a dancer,
they were a certain lifestyle that was a creative
and they were bucking the system,
and this is why they had natural hair.
- I could play my guitar in front of the bus station.
♪ Kimberly, Kimberly, gonna set South Africa free ♪
- Now we have-- If you look at the hair on Insecure,
you see everything that we all know Black women look like in our daily life.
A number of characters have natural hair and they all have different lifestyles,
and they're all different people.
And there's that scene that every--
it's famous, the Viola Davis scene on How to Get Away with Murder
when she takes off her wig.
And she's sitting there and she's herself. She's so vulnerable and raw.
Her acting is so powerful and amazing.
It was such a moment because you can just look
at Black women on television,
and they-- we are finally starting to look like Black women in real life.
♪
- And I feel like our hair is this--
You know, it connects us to our legacy, to our history...
MARSAI: Right. - ...to all of it.
To our present, to our past, to our yesterday, to our tomorrow.
And your parents kind of bridged that space with you.
- I always tell myself, "There's only one you."
So, when it comes to... just truly being yourself, I, I mean that.
And that is where your freedom comes from,
is from speaking and using your voice
and... telling your narrative and telling your story.
♪
- Is there a certain hairstyle that makes you feel really strong?
- Probably when my hair is out.
TRACEE: Yeah? - When my hair is out.
TRACEE: Like, when your, your hair is out? MARSAI: When my own hair is out,
which, uh, unfortunately, there's been, uh--
- You've been workin' a lot. - I've been workin' a lot,
so I need to have it in a protective style
to where it can, like, switch and it--
I don't have to really, um, maintain it and watch it all the time.
But, um, yeah, when my hair is in its lioness... tone,
I feel so, I feel so good. I feel so free, which is great.
I think now that... I'm older,
I have more of an understanding of what my hair does.
MICHAELA: Mm. TRACEE: Mm-hm.
- And, um, how it can relate to other people
just by just simply telling your story.
I'm a Leo. I've always liked how I present myself
and how I look just because for my own personal confidence,
not really for anyone else.
I just liked feeling refreshed.
♪
- We have the talks, right, with our kids and it's like the safe sex talk.
And then we also have the talk about how we're perceived
out in this world as Black women, how to carry ourselves.
And I think that it does really happen in these spaces.
I'm just happy to hear that the mamas are holdin' it down
for the next generation of girls... [all agreeing]
...to make sure that they are good. - We got-- We got y'all.
We got y'all. DANEHSIA: Appreciate that.
So, when my child shows up, we good.
But, no, I'm just sayin', you guys just reminded me
that I've had the talk with my own mom, you know what I mean?
On how I'm gonna be perceived in this world
by based off of just looks alone, you know?
And it's just somethin' that is--
It's crazy that other people don't have the experience.
But it's also, in a sense, like a beautiful struggle that,
you know, we do wear this with a, with a, uh, a sense of pride.
Like, being a Black woman has been the biggest blessin' of my life.
- Absolutely. - Amen.
- I could, honestly-- - I would not trade it.
- I couldn't imagine being nothin' else.
♪
- Black women sit at the, the center of so much
and in order to unpack so many of the stories of our culture
and of our world,
we are the ones that are utilized to tell that story.
- Yes? - I'm Julia Baker.
- In our century, we've learned not to fear words.
♪
TRACEE: Watching Black women on TV,
we represent more than just a character.
From the late '60s through today,
we have been telling stories which are also reflections
of our style, identity, and humanity.
- Well, I got a surprise for her. - You do?
- Watch, I bet the door's gonna creak real loud.
- Hello? Excuse me?
- Not without a introduction. Lynn. - What?
- I don't have time to come running down to the White House at your beck and call
like you're the only one who's important.
- Anything else?
♪
- I think of the things that my mother's generation
had to fight through that made space for me to not
even have to think about those things. MARSAI: Mm-hm.
- And I think of the things that I had to fight through
that you don't even have to think about.
And, um, and I think while I was fighting through some of those things,
my hope was that no one ever had to fight through that again.
MARSAI: Mm-hm. TRACEE: Or have to look in the mirror
and see shame when their hair puffed up
because the truth is that that revert back
is God saying, "Let the beauty out!" - Yeah.
- "Let the beauty out!" - Yes.
TRACEE: "Let freedom ring!" You know? - Yes. Let it ring.
TRACEE: Let it ring.
♪
MICHAELA: What's next?
MARSAI: What's next? I mean,
of course, I could say, like, any types of projects or whatever,
but... I like to keep it one step at a time.
I'm in the present.
And also, now that I'm a producer, I can create my own stuff.
Like, that's, that's a good thing.
I, I, I am pushing that message with any type of creative aspect
that I'm in and what I've done.
I feel like when it comes to talkin' about the future,
yeah, I can, I can have all these types of goals,
I can do whatever, but... what's happening right now
is something that I've always been, like... just going for, you know?
- I feel really privileged to be here with y'all
as a mother-daughter... combination
'cause you all have given us something really special.
And now, um, to have you at the table is really an honor.
- This is absolutely amazing.
Good job.
Bravo.
TRACEE: That was great.
♪
Next on The Hair Tales...
What about your hair is beautiful to you?
- I love how strong it is.
It's so hard to tame and control, but that's how I am.
I don't, I don't want to be controlled all the time.
I want to be wild and free and move the way that I want to.
My hair does that. [chuckles]
♪