1 00:00:05,672 --> 00:00:06,924 Coming up on The Problem... 2 00:00:06,924 --> 00:00:11,094 America hired itself as the guardian of world peace, 3 00:00:11,094 --> 00:00:16,391 and our foreign policy has been everything, everywhere, all at once. 4 00:00:18,185 --> 00:00:19,019 We're competing for talent. 5 00:00:19,019 --> 00:00:22,064 Almost 40% of our budget is pay for the people that we hire. 6 00:00:22,064 --> 00:00:24,775 You don't want China coming in, going, "What are they offering you?" 7 00:00:24,775 --> 00:00:28,820 {\an8}We are the agents of this instability, 8 00:00:28,820 --> 00:00:32,491 in search of cheaper oil, cheaper goods, cheaper labor. 9 00:00:32,491 --> 00:00:33,909 It's certainly arguable. 10 00:00:33,909 --> 00:00:37,412 - Doesn't mean that I embrace it. - You will embrace it, sir. 11 00:01:17,870 --> 00:01:18,871 Hey! 12 00:01:19,371 --> 00:01:20,497 Hello! 13 00:01:20,497 --> 00:01:21,582 Welcome! 14 00:01:23,667 --> 00:01:24,501 I'm Jon Stewart. 15 00:01:24,501 --> 00:01:26,170 You know, in the old Daily Show days, 16 00:01:26,170 --> 00:01:29,256 I used to doodle and, like, pretend that I was doing something. 17 00:01:29,256 --> 00:01:31,049 Now I look at this and pretend I'm reading it 18 00:01:31,049 --> 00:01:34,178 because without my glasses, I can't even read this script. 19 00:01:34,178 --> 00:01:36,722 I just wanted you to know that. I'm an old man. 20 00:01:36,722 --> 00:01:38,015 My name is Jon Stewart, 21 00:01:38,015 --> 00:01:39,516 and I wanted to ask you, 22 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:42,019 the audience here and the audience at home, 23 00:01:42,019 --> 00:01:46,315 are you enjoying your peace dividend? 24 00:01:47,482 --> 00:01:48,734 You know what a peace dividend is? 25 00:01:48,734 --> 00:01:54,615 Your peace dividend is the bonus that citizens of a country enjoy 26 00:01:55,115 --> 00:01:59,953 when their country finally emerges from years of conflict, of war. 27 00:01:59,953 --> 00:02:05,584 We have had 20 years of war. Yes. 28 00:02:06,210 --> 00:02:07,503 Twenty years. 29 00:02:08,002 --> 00:02:10,547 And from what I understand, it's now-- It's over. 30 00:02:10,547 --> 00:02:14,259 Trillions of dollars spent, thousands of lives lost-- 31 00:02:14,259 --> 00:02:18,597 hundreds of thousands of lives lost if you count the lives in other countries, 32 00:02:18,597 --> 00:02:20,974 which as you know, we do not. 33 00:02:27,022 --> 00:02:30,609 The reasonable expectation for Americans might be 34 00:02:31,109 --> 00:02:34,863 that the war-fighting arm of the American system, 35 00:02:34,863 --> 00:02:38,116 the Defense Department, would thus be receiving 36 00:02:38,116 --> 00:02:43,872 a postwar bit of what we'll call a haircut, budgetarily. 37 00:02:43,872 --> 00:02:50,003 {\an8}The Senate passing a record $858 billion defense authorization bill. 38 00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:52,256 I believe $45 billion more 39 00:02:52,256 --> 00:02:55,092 than the White House was asking for in this budget. 40 00:02:55,676 --> 00:02:57,094 {\an8}Was that necessary? 41 00:02:58,470 --> 00:02:59,304 {\an8}No, it wasn't. 42 00:03:01,807 --> 00:03:04,643 Take-- No. Take your time with the answer. 43 00:03:06,311 --> 00:03:07,563 Yes. It almost never is. 44 00:03:07,563 --> 00:03:13,819 You got it correct. $858 billion. 45 00:03:13,819 --> 00:03:17,990 The war's ended, and the Pentagon got a raise. 46 00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:22,703 Forty-five billion dollars could hire 400,000 nurses, 47 00:03:23,203 --> 00:03:26,957 subsidize health care for over 15 million children, 48 00:03:26,957 --> 00:03:32,087 fix every one of America's failing bridges. 49 00:03:32,087 --> 00:03:37,885 Why in God's name does the Pentagon, in a postwar environment, need more money? 50 00:03:37,885 --> 00:03:40,846 {\an8}The world continues to flirt with World War III. 51 00:03:40,846 --> 00:03:44,558 {\an8}- Tensions rising with China. - Another object flying over Alaska. 52 00:03:44,558 --> 00:03:47,352 {\an8}...unprecedented number of missile tests by North Korea. 53 00:03:47,352 --> 00:03:50,022 {\an8}A major incident is only a matter of time. 54 00:03:50,022 --> 00:03:53,066 {\an8}Putin and his military leaders have threatened nuclear war. 55 00:04:00,073 --> 00:04:01,241 Nuclear war? 56 00:04:01,742 --> 00:04:04,453 No problem. They told me in grade school that this would work. 57 00:04:04,453 --> 00:04:05,913 Hold on, I'll be right back-- 58 00:04:07,748 --> 00:04:09,708 So this never ends! 59 00:04:09,708 --> 00:04:12,252 Because the world needs us on that wall. 60 00:04:12,252 --> 00:04:15,797 And that wall has to be built by professional contractors like Raytheon. 61 00:04:15,797 --> 00:04:19,009 And those contractors have to dip their balls in gold. 62 00:04:20,010 --> 00:04:22,137 Gold and balls. Perfect together. 63 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:25,599 Two great tastes that go great together. 64 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:28,977 Heavy is the head that wears the crown. 65 00:04:28,977 --> 00:04:31,188 For nearly seven decades, 66 00:04:31,813 --> 00:04:34,650 the United States has been the anchor of global security. 67 00:04:36,193 --> 00:04:39,446 This has meant doing more than forging international agreements. 68 00:04:40,322 --> 00:04:41,907 It has meant enforcing them. 69 00:04:43,617 --> 00:04:45,869 The burdens of leadership are often heavy, 70 00:04:46,745 --> 00:04:49,456 but the world's a better place because we have borne them. 71 00:04:50,958 --> 00:04:52,876 I forgot how fucking slow he used to talk. 72 00:04:56,296 --> 00:04:58,882 I literally-- I almost fell out of my chair like-- 73 00:05:01,176 --> 00:05:04,638 'Cause, you know, anytime he speaks from the "I killed bin Laden" hallway, 74 00:05:04,638 --> 00:05:06,348 you know shit's about to go down. 75 00:05:08,016 --> 00:05:09,309 But the point is very simple. 76 00:05:09,309 --> 00:05:13,313 The United States doesn't wanna do this, but we have to, 77 00:05:13,313 --> 00:05:16,358 for you, the free world. 78 00:05:16,859 --> 00:05:17,860 And thus... 79 00:05:19,987 --> 00:05:22,489 "The Problem with Defense." 80 00:05:23,198 --> 00:05:27,369 Since World War II, America has hired itself 81 00:05:27,369 --> 00:05:30,497 as the guardian of global security and international order. 82 00:05:31,081 --> 00:05:34,251 But for some reason, this massive job of world peace 83 00:05:34,251 --> 00:05:38,463 is funneled almost entirely through the Department of Blowing Shit Up. 84 00:05:39,298 --> 00:05:42,259 Of course, there are other avenues to maintain world peace. 85 00:05:42,259 --> 00:05:45,220 But when the entire budget of your State Department, 86 00:05:45,220 --> 00:05:47,306 the carrot part of our government, 87 00:05:47,306 --> 00:05:50,017 {\an8}is $52 billion, 88 00:05:50,601 --> 00:05:56,148 {\an8}and $75 billion is going to just one stick-maker, 89 00:05:56,732 --> 00:05:59,568 what do you think we're gonna reach for first? 90 00:05:59,568 --> 00:06:00,903 Carrot or stick? 91 00:06:01,612 --> 00:06:02,613 How does it happen? 92 00:06:03,113 --> 00:06:05,949 Well, there's 535 members of Congress. 93 00:06:05,949 --> 00:06:11,538 And last year, there were 816 defense contractor lobbyists. 94 00:06:12,039 --> 00:06:16,293 So war has more representatives in Congress than Americans do. 95 00:06:16,877 --> 00:06:21,215 Even our lead peace activist has pivoted 96 00:06:21,215 --> 00:06:24,426 to selling bespoke dildos on Netflix. 97 00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:34,520 I'm told each one of those costs a million dollars at the Pentagon. 98 00:06:36,772 --> 00:06:42,236 So the question becomes, are we getting our world peace money's worth? 99 00:06:42,236 --> 00:06:43,820 Because over the years, we've employed 100 00:06:43,820 --> 00:06:47,574 many different costly international agreement-enforcing measures. 101 00:06:47,574 --> 00:06:51,453 We've tried the bomb-and-leave methodology. 102 00:06:51,453 --> 00:06:55,832 It's a bit of an ordnance sampler that says we care, 103 00:06:55,832 --> 00:06:58,377 but not enough for boots on the ground... 104 00:06:59,211 --> 00:07:00,712 that I know about. 105 00:07:03,382 --> 00:07:04,466 Does it work? 106 00:07:04,466 --> 00:07:08,178 Well, it's more cost effective, but it's-- pardon the phrase-- hit-or-miss. 107 00:07:08,178 --> 00:07:12,057 And then, of course, we offer countries the platinum package: the bomb-and-stay. 108 00:07:12,057 --> 00:07:16,395 Your Koreas, your Vietnams, 109 00:07:16,395 --> 00:07:19,523 your Afghanistans, your Iraqs. 110 00:07:19,523 --> 00:07:21,066 You may ask yourself, 111 00:07:21,066 --> 00:07:24,069 "Why do we have to stay so long in those places?" 112 00:07:24,069 --> 00:07:26,405 Well, it turns out that when you bomb the shit out of a place, 113 00:07:26,405 --> 00:07:29,074 the instability you create needs to be managed. 114 00:07:29,074 --> 00:07:31,994 For instance, when we took out Saddam Hussein... 115 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,329 the craziest thing happened. 116 00:07:34,329 --> 00:07:39,001 {\an8}ISIS originated with Al-Qaeda in Iraq, going back to 2005, 2006, 2007-- 117 00:07:39,001 --> 00:07:43,046 We had to stay there to deal with the ISIS threat, 118 00:07:43,046 --> 00:07:45,340 which we caused by taking out Saddam. 119 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:47,050 It totally worked. 120 00:07:47,050 --> 00:07:51,597 {\an8}ISIS has spread far beyond its strongholds in Syria and Iraq. 121 00:07:51,597 --> 00:07:54,641 {\an8}In fact, US military officials tell NBC news 122 00:07:54,641 --> 00:07:57,686 {\an8}they worry about the growing signs of ISIS presence 123 00:07:57,686 --> 00:07:59,646 {\an8}in a half dozen other places. 124 00:07:59,646 --> 00:08:02,107 You see, sometimes a side effect of spreading democracy 125 00:08:02,107 --> 00:08:05,819 is accidentally spreading ISIS and a refugee crisis. 126 00:08:05,819 --> 00:08:06,904 Moving on. 127 00:08:06,904 --> 00:08:10,782 Maybe you're looking for more of a refresher package 128 00:08:10,782 --> 00:08:12,409 without all that collateral damage, 129 00:08:12,409 --> 00:08:16,079 in which case, America will teach you how to bomb. 130 00:08:16,788 --> 00:08:20,918 We offer military training to nascent democratic republics 131 00:08:20,918 --> 00:08:23,378 looking to shore up those aspirations. 132 00:08:24,379 --> 00:08:25,589 We do that a lot. 133 00:08:26,965 --> 00:08:30,594 And while that occasionally does lead to newly trained militaries 134 00:08:30,594 --> 00:08:33,388 overthrowing those nascent democracies... 135 00:08:36,183 --> 00:08:38,184 you gotta risk it to get the biscuit. 136 00:08:41,355 --> 00:08:45,442 And then there's just the straight fucking coups. 137 00:08:45,442 --> 00:08:48,195 {\an8}Have we ever tried to meddle in other countries' elections? 138 00:08:48,695 --> 00:08:49,696 {\an8}Probably. 139 00:08:49,696 --> 00:08:52,616 {\an8}But it was for the good of the system 140 00:08:52,616 --> 00:08:55,077 {\an8}in order to avoid the communists from taking over. 141 00:08:55,077 --> 00:08:58,413 {\an8}We don't do that now? We don't mess around in other people's elections, Jim? 142 00:08:58,413 --> 00:08:59,373 {\an8}Well... 143 00:09:11,969 --> 00:09:13,637 She asked you if we do coups, 144 00:09:13,637 --> 00:09:17,850 and your response was the same as you get when you're lapping up soft ice cream. 145 00:09:22,646 --> 00:09:24,189 Are we overthrowing leaders? 146 00:09:30,195 --> 00:09:34,408 The point is, being the world's policeman is a big job 147 00:09:34,408 --> 00:09:36,869 because the world is a very dangerous place 148 00:09:36,869 --> 00:09:39,371 filled with many dangerous weapons. 149 00:09:39,371 --> 00:09:41,081 And here's where it gets tricky. 150 00:09:41,081 --> 00:09:44,209 We are also the world's largest weapons dealer. 151 00:09:44,710 --> 00:09:48,630 While we are personally enforcing global security agreements, 152 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:54,136 we are also seeding the world with global chaos starter kits. 153 00:09:54,845 --> 00:09:55,929 And while, occasionally, 154 00:09:55,929 --> 00:09:59,433 two of the countries we sell weapons to end up fighting each other 155 00:09:59,433 --> 00:10:02,728 or use those weapons to commit war crimes, 156 00:10:03,437 --> 00:10:08,442 we are very careful with what happens to these precious weapons. 157 00:10:08,442 --> 00:10:10,110 {\an8}Courtesy of Uncle Sam, 158 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:14,198 {\an8}American-supplied armor now riding under Taliban colors. 159 00:10:14,698 --> 00:10:18,577 {\an8}The spoils of victory being paraded by the new masters of Kandahar. 160 00:10:18,577 --> 00:10:21,705 Did we do that? 161 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,252 By the way, Masters of Kandahar is the worst reality show I've ever seen. 162 00:10:29,046 --> 00:10:30,547 I am starting to wonder 163 00:10:30,547 --> 00:10:34,676 if the anchor of global security might be attached to a sinking ship. 164 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:36,386 Since 1945, 165 00:10:36,386 --> 00:10:39,556 our mostly chasing-our-tail military strategy has been 166 00:10:39,556 --> 00:10:42,976 everything, everywhere, all at once. 167 00:10:46,104 --> 00:10:49,233 That's super fucking creepy, that graphic. 168 00:10:53,654 --> 00:10:55,531 Such a good movie though. 169 00:10:56,782 --> 00:11:00,452 And while it's incredibly expensive and not that successful, 170 00:11:00,452 --> 00:11:02,704 at least it's unsustainable. 171 00:11:03,664 --> 00:11:09,294 Twenty percent of America's total budget goes to defense. 172 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:16,093 Fifty percent of America's discretionary budget goes to defense. 173 00:11:16,093 --> 00:11:20,764 We spend more money on defense than the next nine countries combined, 174 00:11:20,764 --> 00:11:22,766 including China and Russia. 175 00:11:23,392 --> 00:11:25,894 We spend $55 billion a year 176 00:11:26,895 --> 00:11:33,569 maintaining about 750 military bases in 80 different countries and territories 177 00:11:34,403 --> 00:11:36,655 and then added a space force 178 00:11:36,655 --> 00:11:39,283 'cause I don't think we appreciate Venus's attitude. 179 00:11:39,283 --> 00:11:40,492 Are you looking at us? 180 00:11:44,079 --> 00:11:46,415 But we can keep this going 'cause we're America. 181 00:11:46,415 --> 00:11:48,500 King Kong got nothing on us! 182 00:11:49,126 --> 00:11:52,337 What goes up can stay up indefinitely. 183 00:11:52,921 --> 00:11:55,424 Unless it's of unknown or Chinese origin. 184 00:11:55,424 --> 00:12:00,637 And yes, our reach extends to the bases, 185 00:12:00,637 --> 00:12:02,472 to our interventions, 186 00:12:02,472 --> 00:12:05,350 the arms sales and to the coups. 187 00:12:06,059 --> 00:12:07,895 We look a lot like an empire. 188 00:12:07,895 --> 00:12:10,105 And as the Roman Empire learned, 189 00:12:10,105 --> 00:12:13,025 and then the Ottoman Empire, and then the British Empire, 190 00:12:13,525 --> 00:12:15,611 we appear to be out over our skis a bit. 191 00:12:16,195 --> 00:12:18,822 It's like we're playing a game of Risk with ourselves. 192 00:12:19,323 --> 00:12:23,785 Meanwhile, at home, our infrastructure plan seems to rest solely on the stamina 193 00:12:23,785 --> 00:12:27,122 of one 400-year-old man. 194 00:12:33,921 --> 00:12:36,423 After decades of destruction both at home and abroad, 195 00:12:36,423 --> 00:12:42,429 maybe it's time for the United States military and media industrial complex 196 00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:47,226 to lay down our weapons and rethink this suicide pact of a strategy, 197 00:12:47,726 --> 00:12:52,773 believing that we can not just influence but control the world. 198 00:12:53,398 --> 00:12:57,819 Maybe we need a moment to take a breather and think. 199 00:12:57,819 --> 00:13:01,615 {\an8}War with China could be coming as soon as 2025. 200 00:13:01,615 --> 00:13:03,116 Go fuck yourself. 201 00:13:04,868 --> 00:13:05,953 Take a look at this. 202 00:13:08,789 --> 00:13:10,624 {\an8}- America has... - ...no money... 203 00:13:10,624 --> 00:13:12,543 {\an8}- ...so please... - ...stop asking us... 204 00:13:12,543 --> 00:13:14,920 {\an8}- ...to provide for... - ...our own citizens. 205 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,630 {\an8}We must be fiscally responsible. 206 00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:17,631 {\an8}We're broke. 207 00:13:17,631 --> 00:13:18,799 {\an8}- We can't... - ...feed everybody. 208 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:20,384 {\an8}- We're broke. - We can't help... 209 00:13:20,384 --> 00:13:22,719 {\an8}...every American. 210 00:13:22,719 --> 00:13:24,638 {\an8}We just don't have the money to do it. 211 00:13:25,138 --> 00:13:27,182 {\an8}- But if you want to... - ...start a war... 212 00:13:27,182 --> 00:13:28,851 {\an8}...surely we can... 213 00:13:28,851 --> 00:13:30,143 {\an8}...find the money for that. 214 00:13:30,143 --> 00:13:33,063 {\an8}- How much money do you need? - A couple billion dollars. 215 00:13:33,063 --> 00:13:34,356 {\an8}- 5.7. - Twelve. 216 00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:35,941 {\an8}- 700. - 1.7. 217 00:13:35,941 --> 00:13:37,192 {\an8}- Six trillion. - Thirty trillion. 218 00:13:37,192 --> 00:13:40,237 {\an8}- How about 35 or 40 trillion... - ...for defense contractors... 219 00:13:40,237 --> 00:13:42,322 {\an8}...all around the world. 220 00:13:42,823 --> 00:13:44,741 {\an8}We are always going to have... 221 00:13:44,741 --> 00:13:46,743 {\an8}- ...money for... - ...defense contractors... 222 00:13:46,743 --> 00:13:48,203 {\an8}...because they're our friends. 223 00:13:48,203 --> 00:13:50,163 {\an8}- They pay for... - ...our campaigns. 224 00:13:50,163 --> 00:13:51,623 {\an8}So everyday Americans are... 225 00:13:51,623 --> 00:13:52,791 {\an8}...not important to us. 226 00:13:52,791 --> 00:13:54,251 {\an8}- But if you... - ...profit from war... 227 00:13:54,251 --> 00:13:56,253 {\an8}- ...we'll give you... - ...anything that you want... 228 00:13:56,253 --> 00:13:57,171 {\an8}...for democracy. 229 00:14:01,216 --> 00:14:02,843 All right. So... 230 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:04,761 ...to help-- 231 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:07,973 Nicely done. 232 00:14:07,973 --> 00:14:10,392 To help make sense of our ever-growing defense spending 233 00:14:10,392 --> 00:14:12,269 and its ramifications, both abroad and at home, 234 00:14:12,269 --> 00:14:14,021 {\an8}we have with us today Michael McCord, 235 00:14:14,021 --> 00:14:17,858 {\an8}who is the chief financial officer and comptroller at the Defense Department. 236 00:14:17,858 --> 00:14:20,068 {\an8}We have Farhad Yousafzai, 237 00:14:20,068 --> 00:14:22,905 {\an8}the former head of procurement in Afghanistan 238 00:14:22,905 --> 00:14:25,657 {\an8}for USAID and military projects. 239 00:14:25,657 --> 00:14:26,909 {\an8}And Elizabeth Shackelford. 240 00:14:26,909 --> 00:14:29,620 {\an8}She's a career diplomat across Africa 241 00:14:29,620 --> 00:14:34,124 {\an8}and senior fellow on US foreign policy at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. 242 00:14:34,124 --> 00:14:36,835 Thank you guys so much for joining us. It's much appreciated. 243 00:14:39,671 --> 00:14:41,673 - Michael, I'm gonna start with you. - Yeah. 244 00:14:41,673 --> 00:14:43,592 And I want to make sure that we understand. 245 00:14:43,592 --> 00:14:46,637 You're just trying to make sense of the chaos of the budget. 246 00:14:46,637 --> 00:14:47,846 Would that be correct? 247 00:14:48,347 --> 00:14:50,557 We can talk about why is our budget the size it is. 248 00:14:50,557 --> 00:14:52,726 I would say the first thing is, is who we are. 249 00:14:53,227 --> 00:14:55,145 Fifty years ago, we decided to end the draft, 250 00:14:55,145 --> 00:14:56,772 so now we're competing for talent. 251 00:14:56,772 --> 00:14:59,650 So, almost 40% of our budget is pay and allowances 252 00:14:59,650 --> 00:15:03,153 and benefits for the people that we hire: civilians, military especially. 253 00:15:03,153 --> 00:15:04,571 So we're competing for talent. 254 00:15:04,571 --> 00:15:07,366 We're paying for-- You know, be competitive. 255 00:15:07,366 --> 00:15:09,117 You don't want them going to work for other armies. 256 00:15:09,117 --> 00:15:10,244 Not luxurious, but competitive. 257 00:15:10,244 --> 00:15:12,663 You don't want China coming in, going, "What are they offering you?" 258 00:15:12,663 --> 00:15:14,122 Yep. Yep. 259 00:15:14,122 --> 00:15:15,791 Second is what we do, 260 00:15:15,791 --> 00:15:17,960 - which is, we're expected to be-- - Global security. 261 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,046 Global. In this hemisphere. Anywhere in the world. 262 00:15:21,046 --> 00:15:23,382 If you send the military, you expect them to be able to do 263 00:15:23,382 --> 00:15:25,467 what you ask them to do, near or far. 264 00:15:25,467 --> 00:15:27,302 And then the third thing is what we buy. 265 00:15:27,302 --> 00:15:30,472 I'm talking about things that are high-end, like submarines, 266 00:15:30,472 --> 00:15:32,432 - that only one or two companies can make. - Right. 267 00:15:32,432 --> 00:15:33,684 - So... - Right. 268 00:15:33,684 --> 00:15:35,143 Those things don't go on sale. 269 00:15:39,815 --> 00:15:41,233 I don't imagine they do. 270 00:15:41,984 --> 00:15:46,363 What about the diplomacy-industrial complex? 271 00:15:47,406 --> 00:15:48,240 Let's just say 272 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,411 that the diplomacy-industrial complex is not particularly robust 273 00:15:52,411 --> 00:15:54,913 and doesn't have a lot of lobbyists on the Hill. 274 00:15:54,913 --> 00:15:57,791 You don't get the same big money that you get from the military-industrial complex. 275 00:15:57,791 --> 00:15:59,084 When I was in South Sudan, 276 00:15:59,084 --> 00:16:02,921 which, at the time, was a country-- A war began while I was there. 277 00:16:02,921 --> 00:16:05,340 It was a very high focus of the White House 278 00:16:05,340 --> 00:16:07,134 in terms of Africa policy. 279 00:16:07,134 --> 00:16:10,137 And because we were so poorly funded, 280 00:16:10,137 --> 00:16:14,349 we didn't have enough vehicles to go to meetings and do our jobs. 281 00:16:14,349 --> 00:16:15,559 So, for example, 282 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:18,770 while all of my military colleagues had cars to take themselves somewhere, 283 00:16:18,770 --> 00:16:21,315 USAID colleagues and myself, and other diplomats, 284 00:16:21,315 --> 00:16:23,150 would have to play Rock, Paper, Scissors 285 00:16:23,150 --> 00:16:25,110 to decide who got to go do their work that day. 286 00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:26,028 Wow. 287 00:16:26,028 --> 00:16:28,655 My military colleagues always wanted us to be able to do our jobs. 288 00:16:28,655 --> 00:16:32,367 All of them would stand up and say, "Can't you make it to this meeting?" 289 00:16:32,367 --> 00:16:36,371 But the budget differentiation is just a representation 290 00:16:36,371 --> 00:16:37,706 of where we put our value. 291 00:16:37,706 --> 00:16:39,833 Farhad, that brings up an interesting point. 292 00:16:39,833 --> 00:16:44,671 I remember being in Afghanistan in, like, 2007, 2008. 293 00:16:44,671 --> 00:16:49,051 And it was very clear that America was Afghanistan's economy 294 00:16:49,051 --> 00:16:50,511 at that moment. 295 00:16:50,511 --> 00:16:51,887 But I also remember thinking, 296 00:16:51,887 --> 00:16:55,474 "But we are an alien force and culture here." 297 00:16:55,474 --> 00:16:57,476 The-- In the beginning, there was-- 298 00:16:57,476 --> 00:17:02,105 People were very much optimistic when the-- after 9/11, 299 00:17:02,105 --> 00:17:03,982 when the intervention start. 300 00:17:03,982 --> 00:17:09,363 But after 2007 and '08, things have been changed. 301 00:17:09,363 --> 00:17:12,616 The US, they didn't work with the people of Afghanistan. 302 00:17:12,616 --> 00:17:16,662 The democracy that they were thinking that they can implement it in Afghanistan, 303 00:17:16,662 --> 00:17:19,122 exactly what we have here in the US, 304 00:17:19,122 --> 00:17:21,959 it's not the way it work over there. 305 00:17:22,917 --> 00:17:28,298 It's exactly like when we have a leakage in the roof, 306 00:17:28,298 --> 00:17:31,176 and there is water all the way fall down, 307 00:17:31,176 --> 00:17:33,720 and you're just cleaning the water without patching the leak. 308 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,098 - We were not fixing the real problem. - Absolutely. 309 00:17:36,098 --> 00:17:38,016 The real problem and the source of the terrorism 310 00:17:38,016 --> 00:17:39,476 never been touched in Afghanistan. 311 00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:42,271 So, I guess, the question that I would ask is, 312 00:17:42,271 --> 00:17:44,857 was there any real connection 313 00:17:44,857 --> 00:17:48,610 to the money that came in and the strategic aims? 314 00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:52,281 The money that's spent in Afghanistan, the Pentagon approve it. 315 00:17:52,281 --> 00:17:55,242 They are just not spent on the target. 316 00:17:55,242 --> 00:17:58,745 We spent the money in the areas where was no security. 317 00:17:58,745 --> 00:18:02,040 We have no accountability where we spend the money. 318 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,710 For example, we spend the money on the infrastructure, 319 00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:07,129 on the roads, on the buildings or clinics, 320 00:18:07,129 --> 00:18:11,175 that was damaged back after a day or a month. 321 00:18:11,175 --> 00:18:12,718 And then we don't have anything-- 322 00:18:12,718 --> 00:18:15,971 So we would build a road, and then we would bomb that road, 323 00:18:15,971 --> 00:18:17,347 and then we would build it again? 324 00:18:17,347 --> 00:18:20,142 We bombed it, or maybe al-- Taliban bombed it, 325 00:18:20,142 --> 00:18:21,685 or maybe the contractor bombed it 326 00:18:21,685 --> 00:18:24,897 because they were doing a very worse quality of work. 327 00:18:24,897 --> 00:18:29,568 That's right. We keep going into these situations with an incredible aspiration. 328 00:18:29,568 --> 00:18:33,530 And every time, reality sort of meets us in the face. 329 00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:38,410 And yet we continue to pursue what feels like an identical strategy. 330 00:18:39,203 --> 00:18:41,830 Just keep bolstering the military complex, 331 00:18:42,456 --> 00:18:47,169 keep the diplomatic core there but somewhat restrained. 332 00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:53,217 Is that a conversation in the Pentagon about shifting resources? 333 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,763 Or are they really just concerned about force projection, 334 00:18:57,763 --> 00:19:01,683 and are they isolated from these other missions? 335 00:19:02,184 --> 00:19:05,187 There was an attempt to train and equip the Afghan military 336 00:19:05,187 --> 00:19:07,439 to stand on their own without us, 337 00:19:07,439 --> 00:19:09,316 to do economic projects. 338 00:19:09,316 --> 00:19:11,985 There were definitely, I think, attempts to branch out 339 00:19:11,985 --> 00:19:14,488 and think about how to address that problem specifically 340 00:19:14,488 --> 00:19:17,157 in ways that were different than had been in other places. 341 00:19:17,157 --> 00:19:19,284 - But... - It's difficult. 342 00:19:19,284 --> 00:19:21,453 You know, in terms of a learning curve, 343 00:19:21,453 --> 00:19:25,958 we go from world power problems to global terror problems, 344 00:19:25,958 --> 00:19:28,752 and now we're pivoting back to world power problems. 345 00:19:28,752 --> 00:19:31,755 I think a lot of it has to do with the tools that we're relying on. 346 00:19:31,755 --> 00:19:36,301 {\an8}And I like to think of diplomacy as being your primary care physician, right. 347 00:19:36,301 --> 00:19:39,513 {\an8}The person that you go to to do preventative work, preventative medicine. 348 00:19:39,513 --> 00:19:43,308 And when you're looking at places that are already unstable and troubled, 349 00:19:43,308 --> 00:19:46,562 you have underlying issues that need to be addressed. 350 00:19:46,562 --> 00:19:49,690 You have grievances against a government that's not serving its people. 351 00:19:49,690 --> 00:19:50,899 You have economic issues, 352 00:19:50,899 --> 00:19:53,652 so people don't have jobs and can't support their families. 353 00:19:53,652 --> 00:19:55,153 You have food insecurity. 354 00:19:55,654 --> 00:19:59,408 And none of those can be addressed with a military solution. 355 00:20:00,033 --> 00:20:01,535 So we understand-- 356 00:20:08,125 --> 00:20:10,752 - So, the mil-- - Hold on one-- You hippie motherfuckers. 357 00:20:15,591 --> 00:20:19,219 So, we understand that we need that-- 358 00:20:19,219 --> 00:20:21,221 you know, that we need to use those other tools. 359 00:20:21,221 --> 00:20:24,057 But, you know, you look at the additional $45 billion 360 00:20:24,057 --> 00:20:26,185 that Congress gave to the Department of Defense. 361 00:20:26,185 --> 00:20:30,022 That's not a huge amount of money to them. I don't know why. 362 00:20:30,022 --> 00:20:33,108 But to the-- For the international affairs budget, 363 00:20:33,108 --> 00:20:36,111 which is the entire civilian foreign affairs budget 364 00:20:36,111 --> 00:20:37,821 that covers State Department, USAID, 365 00:20:37,821 --> 00:20:39,823 for development work and a lot of other things, 366 00:20:40,490 --> 00:20:42,284 that's, like, 70% of what we get. 367 00:20:42,284 --> 00:20:44,870 - That additional tack-on from Congress. - Really? The tip. 368 00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:47,039 - The little top-off that they gave... - That little top-off. 369 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:50,042 - ...would be almost everything for you guys. - Almost everything for us. 370 00:20:50,042 --> 00:20:52,961 And so just imagine how much more we could do 371 00:20:52,961 --> 00:20:54,546 if we had those types of resources 372 00:20:54,546 --> 00:20:57,049 and we were able to do our jobs more effectively. 373 00:20:57,591 --> 00:20:59,426 I think the experience you had, Farhad, was, 374 00:20:59,426 --> 00:21:02,804 if everything-- if you're a hammer, everything's a nail. 375 00:21:03,388 --> 00:21:05,891 And that's-- I was just trying to go with the roof thing, Farhad. 376 00:21:05,891 --> 00:21:06,892 I don't know. 377 00:21:08,977 --> 00:21:09,978 You know what? 378 00:21:11,146 --> 00:21:15,025 We spent millions of dollar on Afghan army. 379 00:21:15,943 --> 00:21:22,658 {\an8}But we also spent million of dollars to support Pakistan army as well. 380 00:21:22,658 --> 00:21:25,327 And they were the people who trained the al-- Taliban back 381 00:21:25,327 --> 00:21:27,412 and bring them all of a sudden, 382 00:21:27,412 --> 00:21:30,457 after 20 years, in one month, and collapse everything. 383 00:21:30,457 --> 00:21:32,584 And in 1980s, 384 00:21:32,584 --> 00:21:37,005 our parents were the partner with the US, and we defeated Russia. 385 00:21:37,005 --> 00:21:40,217 At that time, we also left behind. 386 00:21:41,051 --> 00:21:42,177 And what happened? 387 00:21:42,678 --> 00:21:45,347 What happened on 9/11 in your neighborhood, 388 00:21:45,347 --> 00:21:48,684 it was happening every day for 20 years in Afghanistan, 389 00:21:48,684 --> 00:21:53,063 but no one see it until the world shock on 9/11, 390 00:21:53,063 --> 00:21:55,315 and we went back to Afghanistan. 391 00:21:56,358 --> 00:22:00,028 What happened right now in Afghanistan is worse than that. 392 00:22:00,028 --> 00:22:05,033 The Taliban is more trained, well-equipped, 393 00:22:05,033 --> 00:22:07,411 and also, we leave behind a lot of equipment, 394 00:22:07,411 --> 00:22:12,207 a lot of military equipment-- weapons, night vision, body armor-- over there. 395 00:22:12,708 --> 00:22:17,838 That is the biggest concern for our future generation as well. 396 00:22:17,838 --> 00:22:21,800 It does feel like we repeat the same mistake in 20-year cycles. 397 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,178 I thank you guys so much for being here, 398 00:22:24,178 --> 00:22:27,639 'cause it really does appear that we're chasing our tails. 399 00:22:28,974 --> 00:22:29,892 Thank you so much, 400 00:22:29,892 --> 00:22:33,061 Michael McCord, Farhad Yousafzai and Elizabeth Shackelford. 401 00:22:34,563 --> 00:22:35,731 All right, well... 402 00:22:37,441 --> 00:22:41,195 So, to get some perspective from someone on the front lines 403 00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:43,530 in our felt-like-forever wars, 404 00:22:43,530 --> 00:22:45,532 we sat down with retired four-star general 405 00:22:45,532 --> 00:22:48,410 and former commander of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, 406 00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:49,953 General David Petraeus. 407 00:22:50,537 --> 00:22:53,624 {\an8}General Petraeus, in your mind, 408 00:22:54,333 --> 00:23:00,005 what is the purpose of American military might around the world? 409 00:23:01,006 --> 00:23:04,801 Well, look, the purpose of our military, of course, fundamentally, 410 00:23:04,801 --> 00:23:08,222 is to protect our territorial integrity, 411 00:23:08,222 --> 00:23:11,683 our citizens, our sovereignty, our interests 412 00:23:11,683 --> 00:23:13,519 and Americans around the world. 413 00:23:14,811 --> 00:23:16,438 To be a bit more specific-- 414 00:23:16,438 --> 00:23:19,900 I actually did a tiny bit of research for this, and I-- 415 00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:21,193 I should have done that. 416 00:23:21,193 --> 00:23:23,237 - What was I thinking? - What were you thinking? 417 00:23:23,237 --> 00:23:26,573 - I wrote down five foreign policy goals. - Okay. 418 00:23:27,241 --> 00:23:28,534 And so to put those up front: 419 00:23:28,534 --> 00:23:30,661 - preserve our national security... - Okay. 420 00:23:30,661 --> 00:23:33,747 ...protect world peace in a secure global environment, 421 00:23:33,747 --> 00:23:36,458 maintain a balance of power among nations, 422 00:23:36,458 --> 00:23:39,503 work with allies and others to solve international problems, 423 00:23:39,503 --> 00:23:42,589 promote democratic values and human rights. 424 00:23:42,589 --> 00:23:47,511 So it's sort of a force for balance, stability, 425 00:23:47,511 --> 00:23:50,472 and the world order... 426 00:23:50,472 --> 00:23:52,558 - Yeah, I mean, from our perspective. - ...as we see it. 427 00:23:52,558 --> 00:23:54,351 - From our perspective. - And from our perspective, 428 00:23:54,351 --> 00:23:56,270 you might even say it would be a force for good. 429 00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:59,439 You know, my experience mostly in the last 20, 25 years, 430 00:23:59,439 --> 00:24:01,692 like everybody else's, is Iraq and Afghanistan. 431 00:24:02,276 --> 00:24:06,655 But it's hard for me to look at those interventions 432 00:24:06,655 --> 00:24:08,991 and see the metrics with-- 433 00:24:09,825 --> 00:24:14,705 that you describe as being on the plus side. 434 00:24:14,705 --> 00:24:16,039 Let's start with Afghanistan 435 00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:19,585 because that was the first intervention, understandably. 436 00:24:19,585 --> 00:24:21,795 That's where the 9/11 attacks were planned, 437 00:24:21,795 --> 00:24:24,631 when al-Qaeda had a sanctuary there under Taliban rule. 438 00:24:25,382 --> 00:24:27,384 We went there for a simple reason. 439 00:24:27,384 --> 00:24:30,429 When the Taliban refused to eliminate that sanctuary, 440 00:24:31,096 --> 00:24:32,639 we went in to eliminate it, 441 00:24:33,265 --> 00:24:35,100 and to ensure that it could not come back. 442 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,644 - Because we-- - And in that moment, though, 443 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:40,439 we also have the responsibility then-- 444 00:24:40,439 --> 00:24:43,734 We're training an army, and we're trying to-- 445 00:24:43,734 --> 00:24:46,111 - Well, we're helping a country... - Helping a country-- 446 00:24:46,111 --> 00:24:47,529 ...reestablish its institutions. 447 00:24:47,529 --> 00:24:50,115 Right. People would refer to it as nation-building. 448 00:24:50,115 --> 00:24:52,659 - We're nation-building in Afghanistan... - Yes, sure. Yep. Yep. 449 00:24:52,659 --> 00:24:55,996 - ...after achieving a military objective. - Yep. 450 00:24:55,996 --> 00:24:57,122 Which was inescapable. 451 00:24:57,122 --> 00:25:00,375 I know that a lot of the-- That many people conclude that, you know, 452 00:25:00,375 --> 00:25:04,671 "It all went wrong. We should have just taken out bin Laden." 453 00:25:04,671 --> 00:25:07,257 Of course to take him out, we had to take out the Taliban. 454 00:25:07,257 --> 00:25:10,344 So the country is now without any organizing principles. 455 00:25:10,344 --> 00:25:12,804 - Right. Yeah. - And the problem was that 456 00:25:12,804 --> 00:25:15,724 we didn't focus sufficiently early on. 457 00:25:15,724 --> 00:25:17,893 - We had an incredible-- - Well, we had Iraq. 458 00:25:17,893 --> 00:25:20,646 - And so then you shifted focus. - That's right. 459 00:25:20,646 --> 00:25:27,486 Ungoverned spaces in the Muslim world will be filled with Islamist extremists. 460 00:25:27,486 --> 00:25:30,572 It drives violence, more extremism, 461 00:25:30,572 --> 00:25:32,741 sometimes a tsunami of refugees, 462 00:25:32,741 --> 00:25:37,496 as we saw with the reconstitution of the Islamic State after we left Iraq. 463 00:25:37,496 --> 00:25:42,042 But thinking about our interventions in not just Afghanistan and Iraq, 464 00:25:42,042 --> 00:25:44,127 but you think about what we did in Libya, 465 00:25:44,837 --> 00:25:50,884 they estimate that 37 million refugees were created by the interventions. 466 00:25:50,884 --> 00:25:53,512 So are we not creating, 467 00:25:54,596 --> 00:25:58,141 through our interventionist foreign policy, 468 00:25:59,184 --> 00:26:05,399 the very conditions that you say we're trying to avoid? 469 00:26:05,399 --> 00:26:06,942 The fundamental question then is, 470 00:26:06,942 --> 00:26:09,695 do you give up, or do you just try to learn from that? 471 00:26:09,695 --> 00:26:10,654 How do you get better? 472 00:26:10,654 --> 00:26:13,615 - I mean, the situation really throughout-- - Or do we humble ourselves? 473 00:26:13,615 --> 00:26:15,033 I think we've been humbled. 474 00:26:15,033 --> 00:26:17,703 Again, our ambitions have been very tempered. 475 00:26:18,370 --> 00:26:22,916 And so, what we did, for example, when we went back into Iraq, 476 00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:24,001 which we had to do 477 00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:28,338 because the Islamic State had established a caliphate. That's very worrisome. 478 00:26:28,338 --> 00:26:31,425 - But in many ways, because of us. - They were attracting tens of thousands-- 479 00:26:31,425 --> 00:26:33,218 We'd been gone by then, Jon. 480 00:26:33,218 --> 00:26:36,597 - But we created the conditions for that. - And pursued highly sectarian-- 481 00:26:36,597 --> 00:26:40,517 Well, again, the real question is, it comes back to, you know, 482 00:26:40,517 --> 00:26:43,187 when should you intervene, how should you intervene... 483 00:26:43,187 --> 00:26:45,314 - There you go. - ...and how ambitious should it be? 484 00:26:45,314 --> 00:26:49,735 And I would contend that our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan 485 00:26:49,735 --> 00:26:55,449 have very much tempered our enthusiasm, our ambitions, 486 00:26:55,449 --> 00:26:59,119 our views on what might be possible. 487 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,746 Have you seen the evidence of that? 488 00:27:00,746 --> 00:27:04,458 Because it looks to me like we lost 20 years in Afghanistan, 489 00:27:04,458 --> 00:27:06,126 20 years in Iraq, 490 00:27:06,126 --> 00:27:07,878 and the Pentagon got a raise. 491 00:27:07,878 --> 00:27:10,923 They got 50 billion more dollars than they even asked for. 492 00:27:11,507 --> 00:27:12,382 There's no oversight. 493 00:27:12,382 --> 00:27:14,092 That's not because of Iraq and Afghanistan. 494 00:27:14,092 --> 00:27:16,428 That's because of a return of great power rivalries 495 00:27:16,428 --> 00:27:18,639 and the need to transform the force. 496 00:27:18,639 --> 00:27:25,687 It feels like the military-industrial complex is the one undefeated combatant 497 00:27:26,396 --> 00:27:27,856 in all of our adventures. 498 00:27:27,856 --> 00:27:34,321 I do think that the security challenges that face us right now 499 00:27:35,197 --> 00:27:37,616 are more complex and actually greater 500 00:27:37,616 --> 00:27:41,828 than any that we have faced, actually, during the post-Cold War era. 501 00:27:41,828 --> 00:27:45,374 It's just hard to see the evidence of a learning curve manifest. 502 00:27:45,374 --> 00:27:51,088 It still feels like our foreign policy is everything, everywhere, all at once. 503 00:27:51,088 --> 00:27:54,758 Well, I think the argument there is going to be that, 504 00:27:54,758 --> 00:27:57,928 "Look, if we don't do it, someone else will." 505 00:27:57,928 --> 00:28:00,848 If you think of us as the guy in the circus 506 00:28:00,848 --> 00:28:03,350 who puts a plate on a stick and gets it spinning, 507 00:28:03,892 --> 00:28:08,730 the biggest plate, I think, bigger than all the others together, is China. 508 00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:12,150 It's the US relationship with China. The US with our allies and partners. 509 00:28:12,150 --> 00:28:14,111 They help us keep some of these plates spinning. 510 00:28:14,111 --> 00:28:16,864 But then you have still North Korea with its nuclear program. 511 00:28:16,864 --> 00:28:19,241 - But perhaps maybe the issue is... - Then there's Russia, Islamists-- 512 00:28:19,241 --> 00:28:20,576 ...we're not gonna solve-- 513 00:28:20,576 --> 00:28:24,705 - And maybe it's American understanding-- - It's okay. Just keep the plate spinning. 514 00:28:24,705 --> 00:28:27,958 - You don't want it to become a conflict. - Let me give you a different analogy. 515 00:28:28,458 --> 00:28:31,170 Rather than us being a plate spinner, 516 00:28:32,337 --> 00:28:34,715 shouldn't we be the people to go over and go, 517 00:28:34,715 --> 00:28:38,218 "How you guys doing with the plates? You good? You need anything? All right." 518 00:28:38,218 --> 00:28:39,678 No, look. I think-- 519 00:28:39,678 --> 00:28:43,599 Number one, I think that challenge should be out there, intellectually. 520 00:28:43,599 --> 00:28:45,309 - Right. - I think we should have to address 521 00:28:45,309 --> 00:28:49,688 that kind of view and warning and caution. 522 00:28:49,688 --> 00:28:53,192 We could have continued to manage Afghanistan. 523 00:28:53,192 --> 00:28:56,737 Not win it, not solve it, but you just manage it. 524 00:28:56,737 --> 00:29:01,158 I would actually contend, given the state of Afghanistan now, 525 00:29:01,158 --> 00:29:03,827 which has half the population starving, 526 00:29:03,827 --> 00:29:06,914 half can't go to school, half can't participate in the economy, 527 00:29:06,914 --> 00:29:08,081 and they're living under 528 00:29:08,081 --> 00:29:11,460 this incredibly oppressive, again, eighth-century interpretation of Islam... 529 00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:13,545 - But, again, do you see-- - ...that that might have been better. 530 00:29:13,545 --> 00:29:16,965 But is that for us to decide for people in other countries? 531 00:29:16,965 --> 00:29:18,759 No. Obviously we should ask them about that. 532 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:21,887 These aren't chess pieces to be moved around. 533 00:29:21,887 --> 00:29:24,181 And I'll give you an example with the toxic exposure bills 534 00:29:24,181 --> 00:29:26,892 that we've been doing for soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. 535 00:29:26,892 --> 00:29:28,435 - The burn pits legislation. Yeah. - The burn pits. 536 00:29:28,435 --> 00:29:31,396 We're having enough trouble taking care of our people at home. 537 00:29:31,396 --> 00:29:34,816 We have left those countries as Superfund sites. 538 00:29:34,816 --> 00:29:37,986 Those countries will bear the scars of those burn pits. 539 00:29:37,986 --> 00:29:42,407 The chemicals of those burn pits, it's in the soil, it's in the air, 540 00:29:42,407 --> 00:29:45,118 it's in their genes, it's in their people. 541 00:29:47,246 --> 00:29:52,167 We don't ever reckon with the true reality 542 00:29:52,167 --> 00:29:57,965 of our intellectualized exercises in stability and democracy 543 00:29:58,757 --> 00:30:00,133 with the people on the ground. 544 00:30:00,133 --> 00:30:02,553 This is the beauty of a democracy, that you can have-- 545 00:30:02,553 --> 00:30:04,638 - Yeah. - You can do what we're doing right here. 546 00:30:04,638 --> 00:30:06,932 And I think this is incredibly constructive. 547 00:30:06,932 --> 00:30:09,393 But I actually do think that-- 548 00:30:10,018 --> 00:30:12,437 You know, I agree we are the indispensable nation. 549 00:30:12,437 --> 00:30:15,941 Now, that doesn't mean you have to solve all problems 550 00:30:15,941 --> 00:30:18,110 or that you should try to solve all problems. 551 00:30:18,110 --> 00:30:19,194 But Saudi Arabia. 552 00:30:19,695 --> 00:30:21,947 Saudi Arabia buys 20% of our arms. 553 00:30:21,947 --> 00:30:24,032 This is billions and billions of dollars. 554 00:30:24,032 --> 00:30:28,662 And so, we sell them these weapons, they bomb the hell out of Yemen. 555 00:30:28,662 --> 00:30:31,123 - Let's stop on Yemen just for a second. - Please. 556 00:30:31,123 --> 00:30:34,168 Let's remember who started the civil war in Yemen. 557 00:30:34,168 --> 00:30:37,004 - It's the Houthis. - And the Houthis are supported by-- 558 00:30:37,004 --> 00:30:38,547 - Iran. - They're the proxies of Iran. 559 00:30:38,547 --> 00:30:41,592 We've chosen a side with Saudi Arabia 560 00:30:41,592 --> 00:30:45,596 because we think they're a good counterpoint to-- 561 00:30:45,596 --> 00:30:49,349 Well, compared to Iran, I would say that that's correct. 562 00:30:49,349 --> 00:30:51,476 - They're truly evil. - Truly-- Okay. 563 00:30:51,476 --> 00:30:54,563 - And killed a lot of our soldiers. - Certainly not the Iranian people. But-- 564 00:30:54,563 --> 00:30:58,275 - No, no. This is a regime. - And why is Iran that way? 565 00:30:59,318 --> 00:31:01,486 Because in 1953, 566 00:31:01,486 --> 00:31:07,242 the CIA, the United States, sponsored by British Petroleum, 567 00:31:07,242 --> 00:31:11,038 overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran 568 00:31:11,038 --> 00:31:12,998 and installed an autocrat, 569 00:31:12,998 --> 00:31:17,461 and that inevitably led to the Khomeini era. 570 00:31:17,461 --> 00:31:20,088 So my point is, 571 00:31:20,088 --> 00:31:26,803 we are the agents of a lot of this tumult and instability 572 00:31:26,803 --> 00:31:32,184 in search of cheaper oil, cheaper goods, cheaper labor. 573 00:31:32,184 --> 00:31:35,062 That's my premise, thesis, only point. 574 00:31:35,729 --> 00:31:38,565 Well, it's a wonderful one. And it's certainly arguable. 575 00:31:39,691 --> 00:31:41,235 It doesn't mean that I embrace it. 576 00:31:41,777 --> 00:31:43,570 You will embrace it, sir. 577 00:31:43,570 --> 00:31:45,822 - I believe in you. - You will hold me here until-- 578 00:31:45,822 --> 00:31:48,534 But does that resonate with you in any way? 579 00:31:48,534 --> 00:31:49,618 Sure. 580 00:31:49,618 --> 00:31:52,037 Look, we've made tons of mistakes over the years. 581 00:31:52,829 --> 00:31:54,206 Think about the Bay of Pigs. 582 00:31:54,206 --> 00:31:56,917 I mean, think about all the interventions in Central America. 583 00:31:56,917 --> 00:31:59,127 When has it gone right, as a matter of fact? 584 00:31:59,127 --> 00:32:02,798 I think there's a number of cases where our intervention's gone right. 585 00:32:02,798 --> 00:32:05,926 I'd like to think that what we did in South Korea 586 00:32:05,926 --> 00:32:07,970 was quite admirable and noble. 587 00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:10,097 And look how South Korea has turned out. 588 00:32:10,597 --> 00:32:14,017 I'd like to think that what we did in World War II did actually... 589 00:32:14,852 --> 00:32:17,646 Right. But if we've got to go back to the '40s and the '50s, 590 00:32:17,646 --> 00:32:19,731 - we're in trouble. - No. I think-- The Gulf War. 591 00:32:19,731 --> 00:32:20,816 I think, again, there have-- 592 00:32:20,816 --> 00:32:23,944 I'm not suggesting you never utilize the power. 593 00:32:23,944 --> 00:32:29,116 I'm suggesting that we have been cavalier in some of these. 594 00:32:29,116 --> 00:32:30,409 The question is, again, 595 00:32:30,409 --> 00:32:34,121 "Okay, got it. Understand. What do we do about it?" 596 00:32:34,705 --> 00:32:38,166 And then you come back to those five foreign policy objectives. 597 00:32:38,166 --> 00:32:40,335 - Yes. - And how do you achieve those-- 598 00:32:41,295 --> 00:32:43,505 And how not to create the other problems around it. 599 00:32:43,505 --> 00:32:44,798 - Exactly right. - Right. 600 00:32:45,382 --> 00:32:46,466 - Thank you, sir. - Great to be with you. 601 00:32:48,844 --> 00:32:50,012 All right! 602 00:32:52,222 --> 00:32:53,557 Can I tell you something? 603 00:32:53,557 --> 00:32:56,476 First of all, that's our show. Thank you very much. 604 00:32:56,476 --> 00:32:58,937 Almost more alarming to me 605 00:32:58,937 --> 00:33:02,566 than the cavalier nature of America's foreign policy, 606 00:33:02,566 --> 00:33:07,529 is to see a retired general in a sleeveless fleece. 607 00:33:13,660 --> 00:33:16,121 You know, you're not gonna catch Patton... 608 00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:22,503 {\an8}Anyway, for more resources, go to our website, 609 00:33:23,253 --> 00:33:24,254 {\an8}ya fuckers. 610 00:33:25,506 --> 00:33:26,924 {\an8}That'll take you to another website, 611 00:33:26,924 --> 00:33:29,009 {\an8}and then you might find your life's true purpose. 612 00:33:29,009 --> 00:33:33,347 {\an8}Also, I have a podcast where I do mostly the hits from the '80s and '90s. 613 00:33:33,347 --> 00:33:38,227 {\an8}Anyway, here it is: one final "for fuck's sake." 614 00:33:38,227 --> 00:33:41,438 It's apparently an F-35's bar mitzvah.