1 00:00:01,962 --> 00:00:07,217 Not a person that I work with on this issue in DC who served-- 2 00:00:07,717 --> 00:00:09,886 You'll be working with them for months. 3 00:00:10,053 --> 00:00:13,431 Then one day, they'll casually mention, "Yeah, the nodules in my lungs"-- 4 00:00:13,515 --> 00:00:14,516 And I'm like, "What?" 5 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:17,435 People think veterans have health care for life. 6 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:18,937 -Right. -They're just like, 7 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:21,898 "I don't understand why that's a problem. They have health care." And they don't. 8 00:00:21,982 --> 00:00:26,027 With veterans in particular, there's an assumption they're taken care of. 9 00:00:26,111 --> 00:00:28,947 Are you seeing parallels with the 9/11 first responder-- 10 00:00:29,030 --> 00:00:31,283 Sure. Absolutely. 11 00:00:31,366 --> 00:00:34,160 This idea, you said, came from a Daily Show episode you did, right? 12 00:00:34,244 --> 00:00:35,745 -Yes. -Was it the 9/11 one? 13 00:00:35,829 --> 00:00:40,584 The 9/11 one. It was for first responders who were sick. 14 00:00:41,334 --> 00:00:42,335 We'd never done it. 15 00:00:42,419 --> 00:00:45,463 You know, the show was always, like, either an author of a book 16 00:00:46,298 --> 00:00:47,591 no one gave a shit-- 17 00:00:49,050 --> 00:00:51,845 Or an actress from a movie who you didn't know. 18 00:00:51,928 --> 00:00:53,179 Let's be honest. 19 00:00:53,263 --> 00:00:57,684 So, we-- we had them on, and they just… told their story. 20 00:00:58,351 --> 00:01:01,062 Which, right, is the idea here? 21 00:01:02,230 --> 00:01:04,940 Let's have the first act be sort of a road map, like a mall map. 22 00:01:05,025 --> 00:01:06,109 You know, "You are here." 23 00:01:06,192 --> 00:01:08,778 For whatever-- whatever issue we're dealing with. 24 00:01:08,862 --> 00:01:12,032 And then that second act or whatever, 25 00:01:12,115 --> 00:01:14,576 let's find the-- the stakeholders, 26 00:01:14,659 --> 00:01:17,829 the voices that can give that witness testimony. 27 00:01:18,330 --> 00:01:20,665 No, I like this. Let's see. This is the show. 28 00:01:20,749 --> 00:01:23,376 -Yeah. That's the show. -That's it. 29 00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:24,461 This is what's coming. 30 00:01:24,544 --> 00:01:26,796 I think that's act one up there. 31 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,256 How can that not be the show? 32 00:02:07,003 --> 00:02:08,004 Hello. 33 00:02:08,921 --> 00:02:10,173 My name's Jon Stewart. 34 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,676 You may remember me from such hits as… 35 00:02:13,468 --> 00:02:16,137 MTV's You Wrote It, You Watch It and Elmopalooza! 36 00:02:21,142 --> 00:02:24,062 I guess that answers whether this show will be funny or not. 37 00:02:32,821 --> 00:02:34,656 I've been away from television for some time, 38 00:02:34,739 --> 00:02:37,033 and before we get started, 39 00:02:37,117 --> 00:02:39,244 I really wanted to address the elephant in the room. 40 00:02:41,413 --> 00:02:42,914 This is what I look like now. 41 00:02:45,584 --> 00:02:47,294 I'm not happy about it either. 42 00:02:49,629 --> 00:02:53,133 Very few people would be happy looking like an anti-smoking poster. 43 00:02:57,387 --> 00:02:58,889 Thought you people liked me. 44 00:03:01,474 --> 00:03:05,061 Why don't we begin tonight, slowly? 45 00:03:05,145 --> 00:03:07,230 First show, let's kinda ease our way into it. 46 00:03:07,314 --> 00:03:11,401 Let's try something bipartisan and noncontroversial: 47 00:03:12,068 --> 00:03:13,028 veterans. 48 00:03:13,111 --> 00:03:15,030 Military Appreciation Night, 49 00:03:15,113 --> 00:03:16,698 presented by Pacific Premier Bank… 50 00:03:16,781 --> 00:03:18,074 Thank you for your service. 51 00:03:18,158 --> 00:03:19,576 We thank you for your service. 52 00:03:19,659 --> 00:03:22,829 -Thank you for your service. -One, two, three, four… 53 00:03:22,913 --> 00:03:25,248 The Price Is Right salutes our troops! 54 00:03:25,332 --> 00:03:28,001 -I love you all! Kissy, kissy! -Yeah. 55 00:03:28,084 --> 00:03:31,046 -…five, six, seven, eight… -Thank you for your service. 56 00:03:31,129 --> 00:03:32,380 If you serve, you save! 57 00:03:32,464 --> 00:03:34,299 Free all-you-can-eat hotcakes. 58 00:03:34,382 --> 00:03:36,801 …eighteen, nineteen, twenty… 59 00:03:36,885 --> 00:03:39,179 Thank you. I love you all so much. 60 00:03:39,971 --> 00:03:41,973 And may God protect our troops. 61 00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:45,227 Come on! We're America! 62 00:03:53,818 --> 00:03:56,154 Angry Biden! We're American! 63 00:03:57,530 --> 00:03:59,824 Yes, in this divided country, 64 00:03:59,908 --> 00:04:02,619 the one thing that we seem to be able to agree on 65 00:04:02,702 --> 00:04:06,289 is that we love the troops. 66 00:04:07,290 --> 00:04:08,875 But unfortunately… 67 00:04:08,959 --> 00:04:12,754 One in five US military personnel serving in combat 68 00:04:12,837 --> 00:04:15,257 will suffer some form of PTSD. 69 00:04:15,340 --> 00:04:16,591 One in three vets, 70 00:04:16,675 --> 00:04:19,219 they say they experience underemployment. 71 00:04:19,302 --> 00:04:22,681 One in six vets who served in Iraq or Afghanistan, 72 00:04:22,764 --> 00:04:24,724 addicted to drugs or alcohol. 73 00:04:24,808 --> 00:04:29,312 Nearly 50,000 veterans will experience homelessness each year. 74 00:04:29,396 --> 00:04:31,940 According to the Department of Veterans Affairs, 75 00:04:32,023 --> 00:04:35,902 17 US veterans take their own lives each day. 76 00:04:36,486 --> 00:04:38,196 Yes, we love our vets. 77 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:40,031 But you know the old saying, 78 00:04:40,115 --> 00:04:43,577 "If you love someone, let them go fuck themselves." 79 00:04:44,869 --> 00:04:49,791 Turns out, we support our troops unless they actually need support, 80 00:04:49,874 --> 00:04:52,836 a kind of performative patriotism that barely seems to register 81 00:04:52,919 --> 00:04:56,756 the suffering that their sacrifice sometimes brings. 82 00:04:57,924 --> 00:05:00,719 For instance, just last summer, Jake Tapper broke this story. 83 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,306 A serious story now that you may not have heard about: 84 00:05:04,389 --> 00:05:08,476 The US military has long used burn pits to destroy all sorts of waste, 85 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,770 from chemicals to metals to human waste, 86 00:05:10,854 --> 00:05:15,108 setting fires that churned out black smoke near military bases. 87 00:05:15,191 --> 00:05:18,445 Service members have reported symptoms as serious as cancer, 88 00:05:18,528 --> 00:05:20,655 which they blame on their exposure to the burn pits. 89 00:05:20,739 --> 00:05:22,157 Holy shit. 90 00:05:22,741 --> 00:05:24,618 Well, as-- as troop-loving Americans, 91 00:05:24,701 --> 00:05:26,912 the time to rise up and defend our veterans 92 00:05:26,995 --> 00:05:29,581 was probably 2008, 93 00:05:29,664 --> 00:05:32,417 when this story was first breaking news. 94 00:05:32,792 --> 00:05:35,420 A stunning statement from the United States military. 95 00:05:35,503 --> 00:05:40,133 It says open burn pits in Iraq exposed thousands of troops to toxic chemicals. 96 00:05:40,217 --> 00:05:42,636 You're probably wondering, "What exactly is a burn pit?" 97 00:05:42,719 --> 00:05:43,845 Well, it turns out, 98 00:05:43,929 --> 00:05:47,557 when you invade a country, they don't tell you when trash day is. 99 00:05:48,225 --> 00:05:51,186 So everything that the military wants to get rid of, 100 00:05:51,269 --> 00:05:53,480 from rotting food to old uniforms, 101 00:05:53,563 --> 00:05:55,899 to hazardous materials, medical waste, batteries, 102 00:05:55,982 --> 00:05:59,110 to ammunition, armaments, entire trucks, 103 00:05:59,194 --> 00:06:02,906 nuclear waste, amputated body parts, 104 00:06:02,989 --> 00:06:04,449 and the maraschino cherry: 105 00:06:04,532 --> 00:06:07,202 metric tons of human feces-- 106 00:06:07,786 --> 00:06:10,705 Which, obviously, you don't want to pile that shit up on your base. 107 00:06:10,789 --> 00:06:13,541 You just want to put it right next to your base 108 00:06:13,625 --> 00:06:17,462 and then pour jet fuel on it and light it on fire. 109 00:06:18,463 --> 00:06:20,340 Perhaps a visual would be helpful. 110 00:06:20,423 --> 00:06:23,885 This black plume of smoke is coming from a burn pit. 111 00:06:23,969 --> 00:06:26,721 And these suckers are big, sometimes as big as 10 acres. 112 00:06:26,805 --> 00:06:31,101 And all of the soldiers on the base breathed in that smoke 24-7. 113 00:06:31,184 --> 00:06:34,396 It got in their food, their clothes, their eyes. 114 00:06:34,479 --> 00:06:37,107 They could not escape it. 115 00:06:37,190 --> 00:06:40,235 And again, I cannot stress this enough. 116 00:06:40,819 --> 00:06:43,863 The most powerful and lavishly funded, 117 00:06:43,947 --> 00:06:47,993 technologically sophisticated military apparatus in the world 118 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:53,582 got rid of their trash the same way Jake Paul does. 119 00:06:53,665 --> 00:06:56,167 Oh, God, it's already in flames. 120 00:06:56,251 --> 00:06:58,336 Oh, my God! 121 00:06:58,420 --> 00:06:59,421 There's gonna be a kaboom! 122 00:07:04,926 --> 00:07:07,470 By the way, I'm boxing him on a pay-per-view next Saturday. 123 00:07:13,393 --> 00:07:15,395 I'm urging you not to bet on me. 124 00:07:16,730 --> 00:07:18,815 My-- My bones are made of dust. 125 00:07:20,275 --> 00:07:22,027 Burn pits! 126 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:23,987 Burn pits. 127 00:07:24,070 --> 00:07:27,282 We did that to ourselves. 128 00:07:27,365 --> 00:07:31,286 And as these smoldering ashtrays of freedom burned, 129 00:07:31,369 --> 00:07:34,247 they released a bouquet of poisonous carcinogens, 130 00:07:34,331 --> 00:07:36,499 like benzene and dioxins, 131 00:07:36,583 --> 00:07:40,337 and it has had devastating consequences for the people who served. 132 00:07:40,420 --> 00:07:43,089 The diagnosis was constrictive bronchiolitis. 133 00:07:43,173 --> 00:07:46,635 They diagnosed me with hypersensitivity pneumonitis 134 00:07:46,718 --> 00:07:48,220 and pulmonary fibrosis. 135 00:07:48,303 --> 00:07:51,348 There's a mass in his brain, and we think that it's cancerous. 136 00:07:51,431 --> 00:07:53,516 And I had a form of pancreatic cancer. 137 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:54,559 I have lung cancer. 138 00:07:54,643 --> 00:07:55,602 Lymphoma cancer. 139 00:07:55,685 --> 00:07:57,562 It was squa-- squamous cell carcinoma. 140 00:07:57,646 --> 00:08:03,401 It's not a type of cancer for a young 27-year-old guy to have. 141 00:08:05,153 --> 00:08:06,821 Now, here's the fun part. 142 00:08:06,905 --> 00:08:09,491 Veterans who suffered these terrible health effects 143 00:08:09,574 --> 00:08:12,160 from toxic exposures to burn pits 144 00:08:12,244 --> 00:08:15,872 are being denied health care and benefits from the VA. 145 00:08:15,956 --> 00:08:19,042 Right now we're a quarter million dollars in debt from cancer costs. 146 00:08:19,501 --> 00:08:23,838 We're bankrupt, and the VA still denies my claim, 147 00:08:23,922 --> 00:08:25,966 that it's not the-- that it's not from exposures. 148 00:08:26,049 --> 00:08:30,971 Over 70% of claims filed by veterans suffering from burn pit exposure 149 00:08:31,054 --> 00:08:32,639 have been denied by the VA. 150 00:08:32,722 --> 00:08:36,226 Which is kinda bad news for the more than 3 million service members 151 00:08:36,308 --> 00:08:38,144 who have been exposed to burn pits. 152 00:08:38,645 --> 00:08:41,773 And why are these toxic wounds being denied? 153 00:08:41,856 --> 00:08:44,150 It's, my understanding that 154 00:08:44,234 --> 00:08:48,613 we do not have, specific evidence that ties, 155 00:08:49,447 --> 00:08:54,369 these kinds of, disposal facilities to, health issues. 156 00:08:54,452 --> 00:08:58,665 First of all, fuck you for calling burn pits "disposal facilities." 157 00:08:59,165 --> 00:09:01,251 And I'm not a body language expert, but I'm pretty sure 158 00:09:01,334 --> 00:09:05,338 that guy was doing every tell possible on lying. 159 00:09:05,422 --> 00:09:07,257 "Well, I, look down. 160 00:09:07,757 --> 00:09:10,093 I… I shift paper. 161 00:09:11,011 --> 00:09:15,140 And now I'm going to make up a ridiculous euphemism for burn pits." 162 00:09:16,141 --> 00:09:18,560 What the DOD and the VA are saying is that 163 00:09:18,643 --> 00:09:22,272 they just don't have the proof, the scientific evidence, 164 00:09:22,355 --> 00:09:27,736 that exposure to benzene and dioxins in burning pits made soldiers sick. 165 00:09:28,820 --> 00:09:32,824 And the VA and the DOD keep paying for studies to find the proof 166 00:09:32,908 --> 00:09:36,328 using data provided to them by the Pentagon. 167 00:09:37,329 --> 00:09:40,957 But lo and behold, those studies are inconclusive. 168 00:09:42,918 --> 00:09:44,920 So, may I be of service? 169 00:09:47,756 --> 00:09:50,759 Here's a classic from Pert Plus model Dan Rather. 170 00:09:51,343 --> 00:09:54,054 Exposure to benzene fumes is toxic. 171 00:09:54,137 --> 00:09:57,224 A widely suspected cause of blood disorders, including leukemia. 172 00:09:57,307 --> 00:09:59,059 How about science from Chris Wallace 173 00:09:59,142 --> 00:10:01,895 looking like Chris Pratt playing Chris Wallace? 174 00:10:01,978 --> 00:10:04,648 A preliminary government study strongly suggests 175 00:10:04,731 --> 00:10:07,525 that the chemical dioxin causes cancer in humans. 176 00:10:07,609 --> 00:10:10,195 Or maybe you'd like some science from the EPA. 177 00:10:10,278 --> 00:10:12,822 They're right down the hall from you. 178 00:10:12,906 --> 00:10:14,908 They work in your building. 179 00:10:14,991 --> 00:10:18,411 The health risks associated with dioxin… 180 00:10:18,662 --> 00:10:22,082 …are greater than previously suspected. 181 00:10:22,749 --> 00:10:25,919 Or just maybe the DOD want their science 182 00:10:26,002 --> 00:10:30,924 from a memo that they wrote to their fucking selves. 183 00:10:31,007 --> 00:10:32,050 Because in 2009, 184 00:10:32,133 --> 00:10:35,762 the DOD issued an official internal environmental regulation 185 00:10:35,845 --> 00:10:37,597 that acknowledged, quote, 186 00:10:37,681 --> 00:10:40,767 "Burn pits inherently create health issues 187 00:10:40,850 --> 00:10:44,312 and should be terminated as soon as practical, in order to protect 188 00:10:44,396 --> 00:10:48,567 the life, health and safety of USCENTCOM and coalition personnel." 189 00:10:48,650 --> 00:10:53,738 And in 2010, the VA circulated an official internal memo 190 00:10:53,822 --> 00:10:56,783 telling VA medical examiners to be on the lookout 191 00:10:56,866 --> 00:10:59,786 for conditions related to the exposure of these chemicals: 192 00:10:59,869 --> 00:11:03,123 particulate matter, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, 193 00:11:03,206 --> 00:11:06,459 volatile organic compounds, dioxins and furans. 194 00:11:07,127 --> 00:11:11,756 We know the chemicals from burn pits are the same chemicals in Agent Orange 195 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,925 and the same chemicals at Ground Zero. 196 00:11:14,009 --> 00:11:17,012 And we know exposure to those chemicals makes you sick. 197 00:11:17,095 --> 00:11:18,221 We know. 198 00:11:18,972 --> 00:11:20,265 They know. 199 00:11:20,765 --> 00:11:22,517 We know they know. 200 00:11:25,437 --> 00:11:28,148 And now I think they know that we know that they know. 201 00:11:29,858 --> 00:11:32,444 So why is the VA denying these claims? 202 00:11:32,944 --> 00:11:35,614 Well, no surprise. 203 00:11:36,197 --> 00:11:37,782 The reason is money. 204 00:11:37,866 --> 00:11:40,118 He was a healthy guy when he got back. 205 00:11:40,201 --> 00:11:42,621 He was a healthy guy while he was out there. 206 00:11:42,704 --> 00:11:44,497 But then you wanna say, "Oh, no." 207 00:11:44,581 --> 00:11:47,042 If it doesn't get-- 208 00:11:47,125 --> 00:11:49,127 If they don't see symptoms 209 00:11:49,211 --> 00:11:53,131 within the first 12 months of them coming back, 210 00:11:53,215 --> 00:11:55,884 and he doesn't get a diagnosis, forget it. 211 00:11:55,967 --> 00:11:56,968 They're screwed. 212 00:11:57,052 --> 00:11:59,596 Because they don't see it as it's service related. 213 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:04,434 The VA's new model is, "Delay, deny, hope you die." 214 00:12:05,602 --> 00:12:09,189 "Delay, deny, hope you die." There's a slogan for our flag pins. 215 00:12:09,773 --> 00:12:12,442 So now veterans are dying and going bankrupt 216 00:12:12,525 --> 00:12:17,405 because the DOD and VA are forcing them to indisputably prove a connection 217 00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:22,994 that they already internally admit exists. 218 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,207 And what makes it so incredibly demoralizing 219 00:12:27,290 --> 00:12:32,587 is that they are holding the veterans to a standard of proof 220 00:12:32,671 --> 00:12:38,843 far beyond the one our own government used to send them to war in the first place. 221 00:12:39,344 --> 00:12:41,555 We cannot wait for the final proof, 222 00:12:42,305 --> 00:12:43,640 the smoking gun 223 00:12:44,349 --> 00:12:47,102 that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud. 224 00:12:47,936 --> 00:12:51,356 They couldn't wait for the final proof 225 00:12:51,439 --> 00:12:54,359 in their effort to protect us all from being exposed 226 00:12:54,442 --> 00:12:57,988 to the terrible health effects of a toxic cloud. 227 00:12:59,197 --> 00:13:01,783 We went there to find weapons of mass destruction. 228 00:13:01,866 --> 00:13:05,787 And when they weren't there, we made our own. 229 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:07,122 We'll be right back. 230 00:13:13,628 --> 00:13:16,256 Imagine this baking dish is a gigantic hole in the ground, 231 00:13:16,339 --> 00:13:17,424 like ten acres. 232 00:13:17,507 --> 00:13:20,176 First, we're gonna add our dry ingredients: old uniforms, 233 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:22,512 truck tires, plastic bags, batteries. 234 00:13:22,596 --> 00:13:25,181 Then the wet ingredients: medical waste, 235 00:13:25,265 --> 00:13:29,603 random trash, a bunch of piss, an absolute shit ton of human shit. 236 00:13:29,686 --> 00:13:32,564 Sprinkle in some amputated body parts. Don't ask me where I got these. 237 00:13:32,647 --> 00:13:34,274 And then we're gonna just add in some jet fuel. 238 00:13:34,357 --> 00:13:36,943 Mix it all together, and… 239 00:13:38,612 --> 00:13:39,654 Fuck! 240 00:13:39,738 --> 00:13:41,489 Oh, fuck! 241 00:13:41,573 --> 00:13:42,908 That's a burn pit. 242 00:13:42,991 --> 00:13:44,951 Uh, if you're gonna try it at home, don't. 243 00:13:45,035 --> 00:13:48,914 It is literally illegal to do this in the United States. 244 00:13:48,997 --> 00:13:52,167 Thanks to the DOD for the recipe. 245 00:13:52,250 --> 00:13:53,877 Like and comment for Part 2. 246 00:13:58,048 --> 00:14:00,550 Welcome back to the program. Thanks for joining us. 247 00:14:00,634 --> 00:14:02,677 Right now we're gonna talk to some of the people 248 00:14:02,761 --> 00:14:06,348 who are actually living through what we were just talking about. 249 00:14:06,431 --> 00:14:10,060 First, Captain Le Roy Torres. Served in the army for 23 years. 250 00:14:10,143 --> 00:14:13,980 Cofounder of Burn Pits 360 with his wife, Rosie Torres, who also joins us. 251 00:14:14,064 --> 00:14:16,316 Le Roy, Rosie, I'm gonna start with you guys. 252 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:18,318 I met you guys about three years ago. 253 00:14:18,401 --> 00:14:21,821 Le Roy, can you describe your experience having been in Iraq, 254 00:14:21,905 --> 00:14:24,449 what you were exposed to and what happened since? 255 00:14:24,532 --> 00:14:27,077 When I first arrived there, I just noticed this stench. 256 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,038 A horrific stench of just, like, burning rubber. 257 00:14:30,121 --> 00:14:32,249 It was this massive, 258 00:14:32,332 --> 00:14:36,711 just huge hole where they were just burning all this trash. 259 00:14:37,671 --> 00:14:39,089 Within about a month, 260 00:14:39,172 --> 00:14:43,593 I was having respiratory issues, unexplained headaches, GI issues, 261 00:14:43,677 --> 00:14:46,137 and I was actually quarantined for 72 hours. 262 00:14:46,221 --> 00:14:48,473 They said it was the Iraqi crud that I was dealing with, 263 00:14:48,557 --> 00:14:50,392 that eventually my system would overcome that. 264 00:14:50,475 --> 00:14:53,144 "Iraqi crud." That's a medical term, I believe. Iraqi crud. 265 00:14:53,228 --> 00:14:54,479 That's what the doctors call it. 266 00:14:54,563 --> 00:14:56,690 And you get back then from your deployment, 267 00:14:56,773 --> 00:14:59,442 and you were in the Texas, state-- 268 00:14:59,526 --> 00:15:01,528 -You were a Texas state trooper? -Yes. 269 00:15:01,611 --> 00:15:02,612 And what happens then? 270 00:15:02,696 --> 00:15:05,949 Well, I come back, and I start missing a lot of work. 271 00:15:06,032 --> 00:15:08,118 Eventually, August of 2010, 272 00:15:08,201 --> 00:15:10,870 I was told one morning, "You can't come back to work. 273 00:15:10,954 --> 00:15:13,206 You may be contagious. You need to get yourself checked out. 274 00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:15,584 There is definitely something wrong with you." 275 00:15:15,667 --> 00:15:17,794 And that's when our personal journey started 276 00:15:17,878 --> 00:15:21,840 with, seeking-- trying to seek specialized medical health care… 277 00:15:21,923 --> 00:15:23,049 -Right. -…for my issues. 278 00:15:23,133 --> 00:15:27,220 So you end up actually having to leave the state troopers. 279 00:15:27,804 --> 00:15:29,973 -I was forced to, yes. -You were forced to. 280 00:15:30,056 --> 00:15:32,058 Now, Rosie, Le Roy comes home. 281 00:15:32,142 --> 00:15:36,563 He's clearly suffering from all these conditions. 282 00:15:36,646 --> 00:15:38,398 -And you're on your own. -Right. 283 00:15:38,481 --> 00:15:42,152 So you've got to become your own doctor, lawyer, advocate, everything. 284 00:15:42,235 --> 00:15:44,446 Right. You know, we're juggling, 285 00:15:44,529 --> 00:15:48,199 trying to figure out, like, how we move forward in our lives 286 00:15:48,283 --> 00:15:51,828 because we knew that we were up against two systems: 287 00:15:51,912 --> 00:15:54,581 his employer, his civilian employer, 288 00:15:54,664 --> 00:15:59,127 Three. DOD, trying to, you know, force that medical retirement as well, 289 00:15:59,211 --> 00:16:00,378 and then the VA. 290 00:16:00,462 --> 00:16:03,006 Trying to figure out how do we file a claim 291 00:16:03,089 --> 00:16:04,966 because we're gonna end up homeless on the street 292 00:16:05,050 --> 00:16:06,968 if we don't figure this out quickly. 293 00:16:07,052 --> 00:16:08,762 And you and I have talked about this. 294 00:16:08,845 --> 00:16:11,848 All this has left you, you know, at times, in a pretty dark place. 295 00:16:11,932 --> 00:16:13,725 Yes. Very dark place. 296 00:16:13,808 --> 00:16:17,938 And I'll be honest. In 2016, I attempted to take my life. 297 00:16:18,021 --> 00:16:22,150 But thankfully for my service dog, Hope, and my wife that I'm still here today. 298 00:16:22,692 --> 00:16:23,693 And, 299 00:16:23,777 --> 00:16:25,987 And I can't tell you how inspired I am by you guys. 300 00:16:26,071 --> 00:16:29,074 I mean, you know, I've been banging around with this for a couple years, 301 00:16:29,157 --> 00:16:30,992 but you guys have been at it for so long. 302 00:16:31,076 --> 00:16:33,828 Julie, you, you know-- 303 00:16:33,912 --> 00:16:37,415 You worked as a-- a clinical researcher in the VA… 304 00:16:37,791 --> 00:16:39,960 …but you had also suffered from the burn pits. 305 00:16:40,043 --> 00:16:41,044 Yes. 306 00:16:41,545 --> 00:16:44,923 So if you can't navigate that system, and you are in it, 307 00:16:45,507 --> 00:16:47,801 what chances does anybody have? 308 00:16:47,884 --> 00:16:50,554 It's just a really hard system to navigate, 309 00:16:50,637 --> 00:16:53,557 and there's a lot of different layers and bureaucracy and red tape. 310 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,475 When you apply for benefits, 311 00:16:55,559 --> 00:16:58,061 you have to go through rigorous testing 312 00:16:58,144 --> 00:17:01,356 to sort of prove what you have and if it's service connected. 313 00:17:01,439 --> 00:17:03,441 So you can be diagnosed with a cancer, 314 00:17:03,525 --> 00:17:06,151 and you can still be denied and say there's no link. 315 00:17:06,987 --> 00:17:08,487 The interesting thing here-- We're there. 316 00:17:08,572 --> 00:17:11,783 And you can tell where the audience is-- I think people are stunned. 317 00:17:11,866 --> 00:17:16,580 Because I think the thought process is, "We love our troops." 318 00:17:16,662 --> 00:17:19,791 The rhetoric is, "We love the troops. We support the troops." 319 00:17:19,873 --> 00:17:24,588 And troops get health care, don't they? But it's not like that. 320 00:17:25,921 --> 00:17:28,675 And, Isiah, you know, you actually were on the pits. 321 00:17:28,758 --> 00:17:30,552 -You were stirring these things. -Yes. 322 00:17:30,635 --> 00:17:32,429 What's your experience been with this? 323 00:17:32,512 --> 00:17:34,222 Absolute horror and nightmare. 324 00:17:34,306 --> 00:17:37,267 Everything we had-- trash, food-- 325 00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:38,727 The worst was human waste. 326 00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:39,728 Can I curse on here? 327 00:17:39,811 --> 00:17:41,313 -No! -Oh. Well, everywhere-- 328 00:17:41,396 --> 00:17:42,731 -I don't know-- -Isiah! 329 00:17:42,814 --> 00:17:45,025 What kind of fucking program do you think I'm running here? 330 00:17:46,109 --> 00:17:48,403 So every week, each platoon got shit duty. 331 00:17:48,486 --> 00:17:54,326 So all of the human waste from an entire company of grunts has to be stirred, 332 00:17:54,409 --> 00:17:55,660 and it bubbles, and it's-- 333 00:17:55,744 --> 00:17:56,995 It's a horrible, horrible thing. 334 00:17:57,078 --> 00:18:00,957 And that's one of the reasons I was retired from the army at 27 years old, 335 00:18:01,041 --> 00:18:03,877 because I'm 90% disabled because I have lung scarring. 336 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,755 And I was a healthy kid when I went into the army. 337 00:18:06,838 --> 00:18:08,673 I could run five miles like it was nothing. 338 00:18:08,757 --> 00:18:11,259 Now I can barely breathe at night and have to use a breathing machine 339 00:18:11,343 --> 00:18:13,220 and go through breathing treatments and all these things. 340 00:18:13,303 --> 00:18:15,680 Burn pits is our generation's Agent Orange. 341 00:18:15,764 --> 00:18:18,099 A lot of my friends who were young like me, 342 00:18:18,183 --> 00:18:20,435 with all the burn pits we had, started getting cancer. 343 00:18:20,518 --> 00:18:22,854 And the United States military and the government 344 00:18:22,938 --> 00:18:24,940 doesn't give a damn about us once we're out. 345 00:18:25,023 --> 00:18:26,608 Once you're out, they do not care. 346 00:18:26,691 --> 00:18:30,487 And it's also, you know, to some extent, part of it is a function of-- 347 00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:32,906 It's such a small percentage of the country that serves. 348 00:18:32,989 --> 00:18:33,823 Yes. 349 00:18:33,907 --> 00:18:37,160 So those problems don't get communicated out to the general population. 350 00:18:37,244 --> 00:18:39,663 And I can tell you, just from the audience's response-- 351 00:18:39,746 --> 00:18:45,085 And this is a very broad-based selection of Upper West Side Jews. 352 00:18:45,168 --> 00:18:46,002 This is… 353 00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:50,048 But it's a surprise to people. 354 00:18:50,131 --> 00:18:51,424 Gina, I want to talk to you… 355 00:18:51,591 --> 00:18:55,303 …because I couldn't believe how much you had to do, 356 00:18:55,387 --> 00:18:58,306 as your husband was-- was sick and dying-- 357 00:18:58,390 --> 00:19:04,646 What-- The burden of proof is somehow on the sick veteran and his family. 358 00:19:04,729 --> 00:19:10,527 Well, I didn't know that his cancer was related to burn pits or anything… 359 00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:14,406 …until probably about six to eight months before he passed away. 360 00:19:14,489 --> 00:19:19,327 And with the help of Rosie and Le Roy, I filled out the paperwork, 361 00:19:19,411 --> 00:19:21,246 and, I mean, they didn't even-- 362 00:19:21,329 --> 00:19:24,416 I sent stacks of information from Memorial Sloan Kettering 363 00:19:24,499 --> 00:19:26,334 because he wasn't treated at a VA facility, 364 00:19:26,418 --> 00:19:28,587 because, again, I did not know it was VA-related, 365 00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:30,505 and we live close enough to Memorial 366 00:19:30,589 --> 00:19:33,800 that we went to the top facility for his cancer, 367 00:19:33,884 --> 00:19:36,303 and they don't even know to look for this. 368 00:19:36,386 --> 00:19:39,472 From March of 2003 to August of 2003, he was in Iraq. 369 00:19:39,556 --> 00:19:41,933 He slept, probably from where I am 370 00:19:42,017 --> 00:19:44,269 -to where the end of your rows are… -Right. 371 00:19:44,352 --> 00:19:46,605 …for six months, away from a burning pit. 372 00:19:46,688 --> 00:19:49,608 And they'd wake up choking in the middle of the night. 373 00:19:49,691 --> 00:19:51,985 He was diagnosed at one point with hypertension. 374 00:19:52,068 --> 00:19:55,780 Well, now I come to find out that that's a bit of a red flag 375 00:19:55,864 --> 00:19:58,158 and should push you to go get some other tests 376 00:19:58,241 --> 00:20:00,660 and to investigate a little bit further. 377 00:20:00,744 --> 00:20:02,579 We had no idea. 378 00:20:02,662 --> 00:20:05,332 That's the VA and the Marine Corps's responsibility. 379 00:20:05,415 --> 00:20:08,293 It's their responsibility, and they're failing. 380 00:20:08,376 --> 00:20:10,795 When somebody comes in and tells you that they were in the military, 381 00:20:10,879 --> 00:20:12,380 and they were in a war, 382 00:20:12,464 --> 00:20:14,633 there should be a toxic panel done on them. 383 00:20:14,716 --> 00:20:18,011 You brought up something really, I think, crucial to this entire conversation. 384 00:20:18,094 --> 00:20:22,766 Because the VA is an advocate for the veteran. 385 00:20:22,849 --> 00:20:23,892 That's their charter. 386 00:20:23,975 --> 00:20:28,188 But for some reason, they don't recognize toxic exposure 387 00:20:28,271 --> 00:20:31,608 as an IED that goes off in your body seven years later. 388 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,905 And by having that denial from, service-related-- 389 00:20:36,988 --> 00:20:38,490 They don't have to pay out. 390 00:20:38,573 --> 00:20:42,786 Rosie, you know, you've all worked to create legislation on presumption. 391 00:20:42,869 --> 00:20:45,956 We presume that any veteran who has served in the Global War on Terror 392 00:20:46,039 --> 00:20:48,208 has been exposed to these toxic exposures. 393 00:20:48,291 --> 00:20:53,046 And these list of illnesses that we know are caused by these types of exposures 394 00:20:53,129 --> 00:20:54,297 will be covered. 395 00:20:54,381 --> 00:20:59,970 And I do feel that, because of the conditions that are surfacing 396 00:21:00,053 --> 00:21:03,640 from inhaling such toxic chemicals, you know, 397 00:21:03,723 --> 00:21:06,101 the only way to go is-- is presumption. 398 00:21:06,184 --> 00:21:08,436 And if they know that you're being exposed to these things 399 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,272 and they don't put you through a panel-- 400 00:21:10,355 --> 00:21:12,857 And, Wes, I want to thank you for being patient there, 401 00:21:12,941 --> 00:21:14,859 but that gets to your story. 402 00:21:14,943 --> 00:21:16,069 You come back, 403 00:21:16,152 --> 00:21:20,073 and you're going to doctors because you're having stomach issues. 404 00:21:21,366 --> 00:21:25,328 So when I first came home from Afghanistan in 2011-- 405 00:21:26,121 --> 00:21:28,164 About two years after I came home, 406 00:21:28,248 --> 00:21:30,250 I was experiencing frequent bowel movements, 407 00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:31,626 multiple times a day. 408 00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:33,795 And I was noticing blood. 409 00:21:33,879 --> 00:21:35,505 And I went into the VA. 410 00:21:35,589 --> 00:21:37,883 And it wasn't until 2017 411 00:21:37,966 --> 00:21:40,510 when I was diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer. 412 00:21:41,553 --> 00:21:43,763 And when you first went to the VA, 413 00:21:43,847 --> 00:21:45,348 was there any sense of, say, 414 00:21:45,432 --> 00:21:49,436 "Hey man, stomach issues, and you were exposed to burn pits. 415 00:21:49,519 --> 00:21:52,522 Let's get you some diagnostic tests." 416 00:21:52,606 --> 00:21:55,442 Or did they not even consider these kinds of things? 417 00:21:55,525 --> 00:21:58,194 So, I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome, 418 00:21:58,278 --> 00:21:59,487 and one of the things is, 419 00:21:59,571 --> 00:22:01,573 to be diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome, 420 00:22:01,656 --> 00:22:05,035 you have to have a colonoscopy to rule out everything else. 421 00:22:05,118 --> 00:22:08,079 And I was never given the option of a colonoscopy. 422 00:22:08,163 --> 00:22:09,664 Is there a sense that, 423 00:22:09,748 --> 00:22:12,918 if they had given you that colonoscopy during that time, 424 00:22:13,001 --> 00:22:15,003 we might be having a different outcome here? 425 00:22:16,713 --> 00:22:20,508 I absolutely believe that had they given me a colonoscopy at that time, 426 00:22:20,592 --> 00:22:22,886 that would have had a different outcome in my life. 427 00:22:24,221 --> 00:22:26,223 These stories, I mean-- 428 00:22:27,515 --> 00:22:29,017 These are outrageous. 429 00:22:29,643 --> 00:22:33,605 And it feels like it's been buried. 430 00:22:33,688 --> 00:22:35,982 If another country was doing to our veterans 431 00:22:36,066 --> 00:22:39,152 what we allow to be done to our veterans, we'd be at war already. 432 00:22:40,028 --> 00:22:42,113 They tell you, "No man left behind." 433 00:22:42,197 --> 00:22:44,199 But obviously we see it every single day, 434 00:22:44,282 --> 00:22:46,201 in every war, in every generation, 435 00:22:46,284 --> 00:22:49,287 from the Civil War all the way up until right now. 436 00:22:49,788 --> 00:22:51,915 Veterans always pay the price. 437 00:22:51,998 --> 00:22:53,792 We are always put out in the forefront, 438 00:22:53,875 --> 00:22:55,752 told that our backs are going to be had 439 00:22:55,835 --> 00:22:58,880 by the country and the people that we're supposedly fighting for. 440 00:22:58,964 --> 00:23:01,466 And yet we have these conversations every single time. 441 00:23:01,550 --> 00:23:04,636 I want this to be the last time we have this conversation. 442 00:23:04,719 --> 00:23:05,929 I'm 34 years old. 443 00:23:06,012 --> 00:23:08,848 I want to be the last generation to have to sit around a table 444 00:23:08,932 --> 00:23:10,642 and talk about this goddamn subject. 445 00:23:10,725 --> 00:23:14,229 We need a government that's going to actually put some skin in the game, 446 00:23:14,312 --> 00:23:17,607 because it's really easy to beat your chest, "Rah, rah, rah," 447 00:23:17,691 --> 00:23:18,692 the drums of war. 448 00:23:18,775 --> 00:23:21,278 But all too often they're followed by the bugles of taps, 449 00:23:21,361 --> 00:23:23,363 because only a certain amount serve. 450 00:23:23,446 --> 00:23:27,617 The people who send us don't have to go, so they don't really care about it. 451 00:23:27,701 --> 00:23:31,746 And I'm very animated about this because I know over 50 people who have died. 452 00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:34,499 Fifty. That is unbelievable. 453 00:23:34,583 --> 00:23:37,919 From my time in service and time after. It shouldn't be like that. 454 00:23:38,003 --> 00:23:40,171 And we shouldn't have this pain and burden. 455 00:23:40,255 --> 00:23:42,257 We were told we were gonna be taken care of. 456 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:44,259 Why are we having this conversation? 457 00:23:44,342 --> 00:23:47,262 I gotta tell you, Isiah, I would follow you most places. 458 00:23:47,345 --> 00:23:48,638 I find you… 459 00:23:48,722 --> 00:23:50,974 You're very compelling. If you were to say, "We're going now," 460 00:23:51,057 --> 00:23:54,019 I'll be like, "All right, let me get my bag. I'm gonna just go." 461 00:23:54,102 --> 00:23:56,104 I mean, I-- I believe in you. 462 00:23:56,187 --> 00:23:57,314 And it's-- 463 00:23:57,397 --> 00:24:00,650 What animates all of these discussions, I think, is the shock of it. 464 00:24:01,568 --> 00:24:05,238 Wes, I want to give you one of the last words because, you know, 465 00:24:05,322 --> 00:24:09,242 I'm always moved by individuals who are suffering in their own right 466 00:24:09,326 --> 00:24:14,247 who decide to spend their energy advocating for other people. 467 00:24:14,331 --> 00:24:19,377 And I want to know what drives you to continue bringing this story out. 468 00:24:19,461 --> 00:24:21,880 At this point, I feel like the canary in the coal mine, 469 00:24:21,963 --> 00:24:24,174 and I'm just screaming my head off about this topic 470 00:24:24,257 --> 00:24:26,092 and trying to get people to listen. 471 00:24:27,260 --> 00:24:28,678 But it's too late for me. 472 00:24:30,138 --> 00:24:35,060 But it's not too late for the next veteran that walks down the hall of the VA 473 00:24:35,143 --> 00:24:36,770 and goes into a medical appointment 474 00:24:36,853 --> 00:24:41,566 and says to their doctor, "I am experiencing X, Y and Z." 475 00:24:42,234 --> 00:24:45,237 That doctor then says, "Let's get you treated. 476 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,949 Let's get you diagnosed with the proper diagnosis 477 00:24:49,032 --> 00:24:50,700 and then work on prevention." 478 00:24:51,284 --> 00:24:53,578 An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. 479 00:24:54,746 --> 00:24:58,708 At this point, it's too late for me, and I have accepted that. 480 00:24:59,501 --> 00:25:03,421 But if I can prevent just one other vet and their family 481 00:25:03,505 --> 00:25:05,423 from going through what I have been through, 482 00:25:05,507 --> 00:25:07,717 what my family has been through… 483 00:25:07,801 --> 00:25:09,886 My son is going to grow up without his dad. 484 00:25:10,595 --> 00:25:12,639 My wife is going to live the rest of her life 485 00:25:12,722 --> 00:25:18,228 knowing that the last five years of her spouse's life were in pain and misery. 486 00:25:19,145 --> 00:25:21,064 If I can prevent just one family 487 00:25:21,147 --> 00:25:23,275 from going through what I'm going through right now, 488 00:25:23,358 --> 00:25:27,362 I can kneel before my maker and say, "I did a lot of bad shit in my life, 489 00:25:27,904 --> 00:25:29,281 but I did one good thing, 490 00:25:30,282 --> 00:25:33,201 and I advocated for those that-- that didn't know." 491 00:25:33,827 --> 00:25:35,704 That couldn't do it themselves because they had-- 492 00:25:35,787 --> 00:25:37,539 their time had already passed. 493 00:25:37,622 --> 00:25:40,458 They didn't have a voice. Now I'm their voice. 494 00:25:42,919 --> 00:25:43,920 Thanks so much, Wes. 495 00:25:44,754 --> 00:25:46,172 We'll be right back. Thanks, guys. 496 00:25:47,632 --> 00:25:48,592 Really. 497 00:26:08,486 --> 00:26:11,990 My name's Dan Brewer, lieutenant colonel, United States Army. 498 00:26:12,073 --> 00:26:14,993 And I was chief of environmental in Iraq. 499 00:26:16,077 --> 00:26:20,832 Things I saw that we were burning in burn pits were poisons and carcinogens 500 00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:23,835 and things you ought not to be, openly burning. 501 00:26:23,919 --> 00:26:25,879 Then I could see that we were burning it. 502 00:26:25,962 --> 00:26:31,259 You know, I came back and talked about some of the issues and some of my concerns 503 00:26:31,343 --> 00:26:34,721 and basically told to, you know, keep my opinions to myself. 504 00:26:34,804 --> 00:26:39,017 There was resistance to publishing. I was told by some people… 505 00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:41,603 …we're better off not to publish the regulations… 506 00:26:41,686 --> 00:26:45,857 …because if we don't know what to do we can't be held accountable. 507 00:26:47,234 --> 00:26:50,528 I served as chairman of the federal Research Advisory Committee 508 00:26:50,612 --> 00:26:52,239 on Gulf War Veterans' Illnesses… 509 00:26:53,156 --> 00:26:56,076 …from 2002 to 2014. 510 00:26:56,159 --> 00:26:58,411 In each major military conflict, 511 00:26:58,495 --> 00:27:02,123 the number of veterans injured by toxic exposures 512 00:27:02,207 --> 00:27:07,087 vastly exceeds the number injured by bombs and bullets. 513 00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:11,925 Moreover, the government has consistently refused to take responsibility 514 00:27:12,008 --> 00:27:13,426 for these ill veterans. 515 00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:18,890 This is a serious national health issue facing our military, 516 00:27:18,974 --> 00:27:25,564 and it has been dodged by the Department of Veterans Affairs for the last 50 years. 517 00:27:28,608 --> 00:27:32,028 So, when you go talk to the secretary of the VA, 518 00:27:32,112 --> 00:27:35,824 ideally, what could come out of this conversation when you talk to him, 519 00:27:35,907 --> 00:27:37,075 like, at its best? 520 00:27:37,158 --> 00:27:38,618 The short-term is obviously 521 00:27:39,494 --> 00:27:43,123 presumption for the illnesses that we know are caused by exposure to these toxins. 522 00:27:43,206 --> 00:27:46,293 Just immediately doing that and opening that up to-- 523 00:27:46,376 --> 00:27:48,795 -Walter Reed, you get world-class care… -Right. 524 00:27:48,879 --> 00:27:53,049 …for wound and limb injury, and all those kinds of things. 525 00:27:53,133 --> 00:27:55,218 Do the same for toxic exposure. 526 00:27:55,302 --> 00:27:57,470 We asked Rosie on Zoom, 527 00:27:57,554 --> 00:27:59,764 "What's the difference between presumption and not?" 528 00:27:59,848 --> 00:28:01,057 And she's just flat-out said 529 00:28:01,141 --> 00:28:03,727 the difference is veterans putting shotguns in their mouths. 530 00:28:03,810 --> 00:28:04,811 No question. 531 00:28:04,895 --> 00:28:07,188 Same question. Like, at its worst, what happens? 532 00:28:08,273 --> 00:28:10,859 Boy, it's-- It's one of our number one priorities. 533 00:28:10,942 --> 00:28:13,278 And we really have to address it. 534 00:28:13,361 --> 00:28:16,072 And we're really hoping that the science-- 535 00:28:16,156 --> 00:28:18,533 You know, we're looking into it in a lot of different ways. 536 00:28:18,617 --> 00:28:20,285 And we've already put asthma, 537 00:28:20,368 --> 00:28:23,580 which is, as you know, an enormous issue for people. 538 00:28:23,663 --> 00:28:24,873 And rhinitis. 539 00:28:24,956 --> 00:28:26,458 They'll just give bullshit. 540 00:28:26,541 --> 00:28:29,085 This is the problem with-- with the comedy hybrid shows. 541 00:28:29,169 --> 00:28:30,587 The whole time we're talking about this, 542 00:28:30,670 --> 00:28:34,341 I'm just looking at number one with an asterisk, "snake penis." 543 00:28:41,806 --> 00:28:44,184 All the years of The Daily Show, I never did this. 544 00:28:44,267 --> 00:28:47,479 Like went somewhere and interviewed somebody. 545 00:28:47,562 --> 00:28:48,563 Thanks for having me. 546 00:28:48,688 --> 00:28:53,610 I'll just start simply, which is, in your mind, 547 00:28:53,693 --> 00:28:59,115 what are the biggest hurdles to counteract toxic exposures for veterans 548 00:28:59,199 --> 00:29:02,285 and, more specifically, burn pit exposure? 549 00:29:02,869 --> 00:29:08,750 I would like to see us stop using some of the technologies and the processes 550 00:29:08,833 --> 00:29:12,379 that we've used to, you know, get rid of stuff when we're deployed. 551 00:29:12,462 --> 00:29:15,924 You're saying digging a hole and burning everything in it with jet fuel 552 00:29:16,007 --> 00:29:17,384 -might not be the answer… -I'm just saying-- 553 00:29:17,467 --> 00:29:18,552 …in a modern society? 554 00:29:18,635 --> 00:29:20,762 I'm saying that that's one thing that, going forward, 555 00:29:20,845 --> 00:29:22,347 I think we should get our hands around. 556 00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:26,268 -Right. -This-- The second thing is, 557 00:29:26,351 --> 00:29:31,815 I want to make sure that-- And I am determined to, as secretary, 558 00:29:31,898 --> 00:29:37,320 ensure that we are not passively waiting for information 559 00:29:37,404 --> 00:29:39,114 to help us address this problem 560 00:29:39,197 --> 00:29:45,245 so that we can be in a position to get the care and the benefits 561 00:29:45,328 --> 00:29:47,372 that our vets have earned. 562 00:29:47,455 --> 00:29:50,667 -So-- -Why do you think that hasn't occurred? 563 00:29:50,750 --> 00:29:53,962 Certainly burn pit exposure is not a surprise. 564 00:29:54,045 --> 00:29:55,380 It's been 11 years. 565 00:29:55,463 --> 00:29:57,549 -What more-- -Longer-- Actually longer, Jon. 566 00:29:57,632 --> 00:29:58,633 -Probably longer. -Right. 567 00:29:58,717 --> 00:30:00,844 Because it goes back, really, to the first Gulf War. 568 00:30:00,927 --> 00:30:05,181 What information are they waiting for? 569 00:30:05,765 --> 00:30:11,021 The researchers are trying to establish, 570 00:30:11,688 --> 00:30:13,356 to a level of-- 571 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,152 that's demanded by the statutes, by laws… 572 00:30:18,153 --> 00:30:22,240 the certainty of the causation of these illnesses. 573 00:30:22,324 --> 00:30:26,494 Soldiers are dying of these illnesses, 574 00:30:26,578 --> 00:30:30,582 and they can't get their health coverage and their benefits. 575 00:30:31,166 --> 00:30:36,171 So can you see that it would be difficult for them to hear, 576 00:30:36,796 --> 00:30:38,715 "We're still chasing down information?" 577 00:30:38,798 --> 00:30:39,799 Yeah, absolutely. 578 00:30:39,883 --> 00:30:41,676 When the information seems to already exist. 579 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,511 These were outlawed in America in the '70s. 580 00:30:43,595 --> 00:30:48,975 I don't pretend that my frustration reaches anywhere near… 581 00:30:49,059 --> 00:30:51,353 -Sure. -…the veterans' frustration. 582 00:30:51,436 --> 00:30:53,730 -But I am frustrated. -Sure. 583 00:30:53,813 --> 00:30:57,817 Which is why I made this the first thing we did out of the box. 584 00:30:57,901 --> 00:31:00,487 We have now established a presumption that 585 00:31:00,570 --> 00:31:04,824 that if you have rhinitis, if you have sinusitis, if you have asthma… 586 00:31:05,825 --> 00:31:09,120 …we presume those came from your time in the military, 587 00:31:10,121 --> 00:31:13,875 and therefore you qualify for care and benefits. 588 00:31:13,959 --> 00:31:17,546 I think veterans would all say sinusitis, rhinitis and asthma is fine… 589 00:31:17,629 --> 00:31:19,798 -Not enough. -…but that's not what's killing them. 590 00:31:20,590 --> 00:31:23,176 Do I think that's done? No, I don't. 591 00:31:24,135 --> 00:31:30,058 And I won't stop until the presumptive lists include 592 00:31:30,141 --> 00:31:35,772 well beyond that very meager list that we've established. 593 00:31:35,855 --> 00:31:39,609 What gave you the-- I guess, the confidence 594 00:31:39,693 --> 00:31:42,988 that the science or the information had reached the level 595 00:31:43,071 --> 00:31:45,782 where you felt comfortable giving presumption, 596 00:31:45,865 --> 00:31:48,785 whereas with these other-- constrictive bronchiolitis… 597 00:31:48,868 --> 00:31:52,372 -Right. -…lymphomas, colon cancers… 598 00:31:52,455 --> 00:31:56,126 Why do you feel like the information hasn't reached that level? 599 00:31:56,209 --> 00:32:00,171 We are able to look and make the decision on these first three conditions 600 00:32:00,255 --> 00:32:02,632 -based on-- -Great. What were the metrics? 601 00:32:02,716 --> 00:32:04,885 -We-- I wish-- -How did-- Okay, okay. 602 00:32:04,968 --> 00:32:08,013 I want to be able to answer your question. I just don't-- I haven't-- 603 00:32:08,096 --> 00:32:10,932 But you were satisfied that that met the statute. 604 00:32:11,016 --> 00:32:12,392 I was satisfied. 605 00:32:12,893 --> 00:32:17,647 Our team of clinicians, researchers told me 606 00:32:17,731 --> 00:32:21,484 we can-- we can establish that these three conditions 607 00:32:21,568 --> 00:32:24,404 are presumed to be caused by being, 608 00:32:24,487 --> 00:32:28,575 for their military service, in these geographies during this time. 609 00:32:29,159 --> 00:32:32,078 So if your science team gives you a recommendation 610 00:32:32,162 --> 00:32:35,582 for these other conditions… 611 00:32:35,665 --> 00:32:40,670 …then you will sign them, you will pass those through? 612 00:32:40,754 --> 00:32:41,755 Not only that. 613 00:32:41,838 --> 00:32:47,469 I'm asking them to go get as much science as there is on this. 614 00:32:47,552 --> 00:32:50,889 Is the holdup, in your mind, money… 615 00:32:50,972 --> 00:32:51,973 -No. -…or information? 616 00:32:52,057 --> 00:32:53,308 So it's not money? 617 00:32:53,391 --> 00:33:00,148 Jon, we are-- We've just submitted a budget for about $270 billion. 618 00:33:00,232 --> 00:33:02,525 It's the second biggest budget in the federal government. 619 00:33:02,609 --> 00:33:06,112 A little less than half of that is for the provision of health care. 620 00:33:06,196 --> 00:33:08,657 We're not asking what the cost is. 621 00:33:08,740 --> 00:33:11,785 So I'm not sure then. 622 00:33:11,868 --> 00:33:17,415 If it's not money, and it's not science… 623 00:33:17,499 --> 00:33:23,630 The biggest hurdle is establishing that link, that scientific link. 624 00:33:23,713 --> 00:33:25,799 -And I will be damned… -Right. 625 00:33:25,882 --> 00:33:27,342 …if I don't establish it. 626 00:33:27,425 --> 00:33:30,470 I don't think you could say that we haven't established a link 627 00:33:30,554 --> 00:33:32,847 between exposure to jet fuel 628 00:33:32,931 --> 00:33:35,600 and certain cancers and autoimmune disorders. We have. 629 00:33:37,602 --> 00:33:40,647 I want to make sure that… 630 00:33:42,065 --> 00:33:44,818 …I also recognize that we do operate 631 00:33:44,901 --> 00:33:47,195 within the context of a series of requirements. 632 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:51,408 We have not been yet able to meet the requirements. 633 00:33:51,491 --> 00:33:53,785 Let's at least help people understand 634 00:33:54,411 --> 00:33:58,957 what this bar that we have to reach entails. 635 00:33:59,541 --> 00:34:03,628 The process and the statute requires to meet a certain degree of threshold. 636 00:34:03,712 --> 00:34:05,839 -What is that threshold? -Getting to one pa-- 637 00:34:05,922 --> 00:34:08,717 Taking one path to that threshold is too slow. 638 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,095 Congress, you know, going back to the Vietnam vets and Agent Orange, 639 00:34:12,178 --> 00:34:14,722 required us to work with the National Academies of Science. 640 00:34:14,806 --> 00:34:18,977 From what I've seen is they've done a ton of National Academy of Science studies. 641 00:34:19,059 --> 00:34:22,105 And people wave those all the time and say no link's been established. 642 00:34:23,273 --> 00:34:27,193 But unfortunately, those studies all say insufficient data. 643 00:34:27,277 --> 00:34:30,947 And that data is not going to be getting any better 'cause it's provided by DOD. 644 00:34:31,030 --> 00:34:37,579 And if it's insufficient in 2008, it's going to be insufficient in 2020. 645 00:34:37,662 --> 00:34:41,916 I believe that we-- There are rules of this process-- 646 00:34:41,999 --> 00:34:43,919 But why can't you define those rules? 647 00:34:44,001 --> 00:34:45,461 I'm sorry. I wish I could. 648 00:34:45,545 --> 00:34:47,672 -And maybe that's my weakness. -But then how do you know 649 00:34:47,756 --> 00:34:48,882 when you've achieved them? 650 00:34:48,965 --> 00:34:50,383 By-- Because-- 651 00:34:50,467 --> 00:34:56,347 Because we have a series of requirements that we have to meet 652 00:34:56,431 --> 00:34:58,808 that we've been running against for years. 653 00:34:58,892 --> 00:35:01,436 -What we've been doing is-- -But what are the requirements? 654 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:05,649 We've been running against them with one stream of information 655 00:35:05,732 --> 00:35:07,484 that comes from the National Academies of Science. 656 00:35:07,567 --> 00:35:09,110 -Right, which is paid for by the VA. -And by-- 657 00:35:09,194 --> 00:35:10,946 -And the information comes from DOD. -And what I'm-- 658 00:35:11,029 --> 00:35:13,698 And what I'm saying is, that's a mistake. 659 00:35:13,782 --> 00:35:16,743 We should get the information, and we now are getting information, 660 00:35:16,826 --> 00:35:20,080 from a much wider range of science. 661 00:35:20,163 --> 00:35:22,874 -Doesn't that information already exist? -It does exist. 662 00:35:22,958 --> 00:35:23,959 -Yeah, it does exist. -And-- 663 00:35:24,042 --> 00:35:26,670 I'm saying go get it and let's put it into our decision-making process. 664 00:35:26,753 --> 00:35:30,840 And so I'm really trying to understand. What's the bar you're looking for? 665 00:35:30,924 --> 00:35:36,429 Because to not be able to articulate that clearly really troubles me. 666 00:35:36,513 --> 00:35:37,931 -I don't-- And by the way… -And-- 667 00:35:38,014 --> 00:35:40,058 …I don't doubt your empathy and your care. 668 00:35:40,141 --> 00:35:40,976 I really don't. 669 00:35:41,059 --> 00:35:42,310 That's why I'm here talking to you. 670 00:35:42,394 --> 00:35:45,146 -The beauty is I don't really give a shit. -Not that it matters to you. 671 00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:46,356 As you shouldn't. 672 00:35:46,439 --> 00:35:49,484 So, I don't really care what you think if I'm doing a good job or not. 673 00:35:49,568 --> 00:35:50,652 I care what the vets think. 674 00:35:51,236 --> 00:35:52,821 We've got-- I should show you this. 675 00:35:52,904 --> 00:35:55,657 Give me Isiah's fourth thing. 676 00:35:55,740 --> 00:35:57,909 This is from the panel we did with some veterans. 677 00:35:57,993 --> 00:36:00,370 I just want you to listen to Isiah James, 678 00:36:00,453 --> 00:36:03,790 who is an infantryman who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. 679 00:36:03,873 --> 00:36:06,376 I was a healthy kid when I went into the army. 680 00:36:06,459 --> 00:36:08,253 I could run five miles like it was nothing. 681 00:36:08,336 --> 00:36:10,755 Now I can barely breathe at night and have to use a breathing machine 682 00:36:10,839 --> 00:36:12,632 and go through breathing treatments and all these things. 683 00:36:12,716 --> 00:36:14,926 And the United States military and the government 684 00:36:15,010 --> 00:36:16,803 doesn't give a damn about us once we're out. 685 00:36:16,887 --> 00:36:18,555 Once you're out, they do not care. 686 00:36:18,638 --> 00:36:20,932 If another country was doing to our veterans 687 00:36:21,016 --> 00:36:23,977 what we allow to be done to our veterans, we'd be at war already. 688 00:36:26,104 --> 00:36:28,106 You know, that's-- that's hard to hear. 689 00:36:28,189 --> 00:36:30,692 Clearly you'd agree with his sentiments, I think, to some extent. 690 00:36:31,276 --> 00:36:33,153 I agree with all of his sentiment. 691 00:36:33,653 --> 00:36:35,280 -Each and every bit of it. -Right. 692 00:36:35,363 --> 00:36:37,449 And so you're asking a very logical question, 693 00:36:37,532 --> 00:36:44,372 which is, "Okay, so, do you need, like, three papers from five researchers, 694 00:36:44,456 --> 00:36:45,457 or what is it?" 695 00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:48,376 -Right. -And I-- I don't know the answer to that. 696 00:36:48,460 --> 00:36:51,421 But if you don't know the answer, how do you know when you've found it? 697 00:36:51,504 --> 00:36:53,548 -I guess I'm trying to figure out-- -Well, because-- 698 00:36:53,632 --> 00:36:56,885 As the executive, you could do this in the stroke of a pen. 699 00:36:56,968 --> 00:36:59,346 -And… -I-- I wish I could, but I can't. 700 00:36:59,429 --> 00:37:01,056 You know, I've asked for that. I've asked. 701 00:37:01,139 --> 00:37:02,474 My point is, 702 00:37:03,516 --> 00:37:08,021 I still can't understand what this bar is that you talk about that's a statute. 703 00:37:08,104 --> 00:37:09,856 -I wish-- I wish-- -If I look at the statute-- 704 00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:11,233 I wish it were like a puzzle. 705 00:37:11,316 --> 00:37:13,443 I keep asking the same series of questions. 706 00:37:13,526 --> 00:37:15,779 -Right. -Okay, so, like, we got all these pieces. 707 00:37:15,862 --> 00:37:17,113 Just tell me where to put 'em, 708 00:37:17,197 --> 00:37:18,865 then let's figure out which piece we're missing. 709 00:37:18,949 --> 00:37:20,492 -And then we'll build that. -Right. 710 00:37:20,575 --> 00:37:23,870 You know, I'm looking at all the options available to me, 711 00:37:23,954 --> 00:37:26,790 especially on the-- as I said to you earlier, 712 00:37:26,873 --> 00:37:28,500 the most difficult cases. 713 00:37:28,583 --> 00:37:31,670 Not even guys just like Isiah, 714 00:37:31,753 --> 00:37:34,214 who's clearly, paid a huge price. 715 00:37:35,966 --> 00:37:37,759 And I'm trying to figure out, 716 00:37:37,842 --> 00:37:41,846 how do we get him into our care in a timely way? 717 00:37:42,472 --> 00:37:44,474 And then we can figure out the benefits later. 718 00:37:45,475 --> 00:37:47,394 This delay is killing people. 719 00:37:47,477 --> 00:37:49,854 I mean, I think it's-- I don't-- That's not hyperbole. 720 00:37:49,938 --> 00:37:53,441 This is about taking care of a problem that we caused 721 00:37:54,025 --> 00:37:55,485 through our negligence 722 00:37:56,820 --> 00:37:58,655 to our own servicepeople. 723 00:37:58,738 --> 00:38:01,199 I think you're trying to get me to rebut that notion. 724 00:38:01,283 --> 00:38:02,742 -And I'm telling you… -No, I'm not. 725 00:38:02,826 --> 00:38:04,911 -…I'm not rebutting that notion. -I understand that. 726 00:38:04,995 --> 00:38:07,539 -And-- -I'm trying to get you to… 727 00:38:08,081 --> 00:38:11,626 I-I-- Honestly, I think I'm trying to get you to say, 728 00:38:11,710 --> 00:38:14,713 "The system can't tolerate it right now. 729 00:38:14,796 --> 00:38:18,508 We need to expand that system and make changes to that system, 730 00:38:18,592 --> 00:38:20,969 and that takes money, and this is what I need from Congress." 731 00:38:21,052 --> 00:38:22,721 I don't believe that to be the case. 732 00:38:22,804 --> 00:38:28,560 Would we be better served by beginning a process of implementation 733 00:38:29,477 --> 00:38:31,563 with auditing on the back end of it? 734 00:38:31,646 --> 00:38:34,608 Because, you know, I look at the 9/11 program, right? 735 00:38:34,691 --> 00:38:37,444 It puts people in a preventative screening program. 736 00:38:37,527 --> 00:38:40,989 It gives them treatment for these toxic exposures, from experts. 737 00:38:42,032 --> 00:38:44,910 It's a program that very clearly can be scaled up. 738 00:38:44,993 --> 00:38:48,872 Why not announce a five-year implementation program 739 00:38:48,955 --> 00:38:53,126 as opposed to an individual-disease-to-disease… 740 00:38:53,209 --> 00:38:56,463 I mean, why take the tack you're taking and not that one? 741 00:38:56,546 --> 00:38:58,256 What I'm doing right now, 742 00:38:58,340 --> 00:39:02,052 I believe that that helped us, in the first instance, 743 00:39:02,135 --> 00:39:04,346 -establish the presumption… -Right. 744 00:39:04,429 --> 00:39:07,224 …that these three conditions are service connected. 745 00:39:07,766 --> 00:39:08,975 And I am hopeful-- 746 00:39:09,059 --> 00:39:13,104 And I will push the system to establish that condition-- 747 00:39:13,188 --> 00:39:15,607 that presumption for other conditions. 748 00:39:15,690 --> 00:39:19,486 And I think I can only get more by this process that I've put in place 749 00:39:19,569 --> 00:39:23,198 and by putting pressure on our experts, who I think are the best in the world. 750 00:39:23,782 --> 00:39:28,495 In that process, is there anything that you need to help expedite that? 751 00:39:28,578 --> 00:39:30,956 I really want vets to file their claims. 752 00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:33,708 We can actually draw some conclusions 753 00:39:34,668 --> 00:39:40,215 about the experience of people there as a cohort. 754 00:39:40,298 --> 00:39:42,050 -Jon-- -Last question, then I'll let you go. 755 00:39:42,133 --> 00:39:43,635 -Last question. -Okay. 756 00:39:44,177 --> 00:39:49,432 If you're satisfied that the process will never provide you that cohort study, 757 00:39:49,516 --> 00:39:52,852 -that perfect double blind… -Yeah. Yeah. 758 00:39:52,936 --> 00:39:55,438 …is there an expedited process of presumption 759 00:39:56,231 --> 00:40:01,027 that you would be satisfied to move forward with? 760 00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:04,155 You know, I-- I'm-- I'm, 761 00:40:05,991 --> 00:40:11,329 I guess what I'd say is, I'm-- I'm trying this process now. 762 00:40:11,913 --> 00:40:15,041 If it's impossible and we still end up in this position 763 00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:20,422 where we can't get the vets, in a timely way, what they need in terms of care, 764 00:40:20,505 --> 00:40:23,216 then I would definitely look at anything. 765 00:40:23,842 --> 00:40:26,219 -Thank you. Much appreciated. Thanks. -Okay. Thanks, man. 766 00:40:31,057 --> 00:40:34,060 You know him for his award-winning documentaries 767 00:40:34,144 --> 00:40:35,145 on the Civil War, 768 00:40:35,228 --> 00:40:36,438 baseball 769 00:40:36,521 --> 00:40:39,190 and jazz. 770 00:40:39,274 --> 00:40:41,026 Hi, I'm Ken Burns. 771 00:40:41,693 --> 00:40:43,612 This is Ken Burns Presents 772 00:40:43,695 --> 00:40:45,530 Ken's Burn. 773 00:40:45,614 --> 00:40:48,158 These burns are so hot they'll blow your balls off. 774 00:40:49,826 --> 00:40:52,412 The government's treatment of vets is so bad, 775 00:40:52,495 --> 00:40:56,124 it makes my friend Werner Herzog's film Meeting Gorbachev 776 00:40:56,207 --> 00:40:58,960 look like his film Cave of Forgotten Dreams. 777 00:41:03,173 --> 00:41:05,508 Third-degree burn. 778 00:41:06,176 --> 00:41:08,178 That was Ken Burns's burn. 779 00:41:10,597 --> 00:41:13,600 Well, folks, that was our very first program. 780 00:41:13,683 --> 00:41:15,060 Thank you for watching. 781 00:41:15,936 --> 00:41:18,063 But my guess is you didn't. 782 00:41:18,146 --> 00:41:20,857 You're probably just going to look at aggregated clips of it 783 00:41:20,941 --> 00:41:23,068 somewhere on YouTube, 784 00:41:23,818 --> 00:41:25,487 where you pirate Ted Lasso. 785 00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:27,822 You don't even know how to get Apple TV, do you? 786 00:41:27,906 --> 00:41:29,366 You don't even know. 787 00:41:29,991 --> 00:41:32,202 It's just a subscription service. 788 00:41:32,285 --> 00:41:33,870 You hit the Apple thing. 789 00:41:33,954 --> 00:41:36,790 It says a thing. You click off "I agree." 790 00:41:36,873 --> 00:41:40,293 Don't read it. Just say you agree. 791 00:41:41,878 --> 00:41:43,755 By the way, we have a podcast. 792 00:41:43,838 --> 00:41:45,840 We're on the Internet and an array of other platforms 793 00:41:45,924 --> 00:41:47,342 I can't remember the names of. 794 00:41:48,009 --> 00:41:52,222 But you can keep up with Burn Pits 360 and all the others working in this space 795 00:41:52,305 --> 00:41:54,641 to get veterans the health care and benefits they've earned. 796 00:41:54,724 --> 00:41:57,143 Thanks very much, and we'll see you next time. 797 00:42:04,359 --> 00:42:07,028 You guys have been in news for a very long time. 798 00:42:07,112 --> 00:42:09,573 Like, we sort of come from a slightly different world. 799 00:42:10,949 --> 00:42:12,659 I'm already cringing, like, "Oh, God." 800 00:42:12,742 --> 00:42:13,660 When, like-- 801 00:42:13,743 --> 00:42:16,997 When people see this, I'm gonna go to the Comedy Cellar, you know, table. 802 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,875 And they're all gonna be like, "Ooh, look, Mother Teresa just came in." 803 00:42:22,294 --> 00:42:24,504 It's just gonna be a fucking nightmare.