1 00:00:07,300 --> 00:00:10,095 People do come to this country 'cause they think it's freer. 2 00:00:10,178 --> 00:00:11,596 -[Stewart] It is freer. -Right? 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,266 And so my family, you know, fine, we were leaving India, 4 00:00:14,349 --> 00:00:16,308 which is a democracy, but still, when we came here, 5 00:00:16,393 --> 00:00:18,019 you were looking for a better life. 6 00:00:18,103 --> 00:00:21,690 No joke, last time I was in Iran, I was in a café with my cousins 7 00:00:21,773 --> 00:00:27,487 and I was being the loud fuck I am here, and everyone was looking at me, 8 00:00:27,571 --> 00:00:31,032 and my cousin's like, "Keep it down, because those army guys walking over, 9 00:00:31,116 --> 00:00:33,034 that's for you being loud." 10 00:00:33,118 --> 00:00:36,788 Like they'll just-- You can't even talk loudly there without… 11 00:00:36,871 --> 00:00:37,914 [Brinda] Oh, fuck. 12 00:00:37,998 --> 00:00:39,874 -Terrible house parties. -[laughing] 13 00:00:39,958 --> 00:00:42,836 Can I tell you something? Great house parties. 14 00:00:42,919 --> 00:00:46,339 Just that's the only thing. All in the basement. 15 00:00:46,423 --> 00:00:48,216 -[Reza] Absolutely. -It's all like this. 16 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:49,467 Piety on the street… 17 00:00:49,551 --> 00:00:52,846 Party in the freaking basement. And that's so true. 18 00:00:52,929 --> 00:00:54,931 Yeah, that was my Tinder bio too. 19 00:00:55,015 --> 00:00:57,726 [all laughing] 20 00:01:30,759 --> 00:01:33,261 [audience cheering] 21 00:01:34,930 --> 00:01:36,806 Hello, everybody! Welcome. 22 00:01:36,890 --> 00:01:39,100 Good evening. I am what remains of Jon Stewart. 23 00:01:39,184 --> 00:01:40,185 Welcome… 24 00:01:40,268 --> 00:01:41,478 [audience chuckles, cheers] 25 00:01:41,561 --> 00:01:43,063 …to my humble home. 26 00:01:45,232 --> 00:01:49,986 [singsongy] They're excited to see live television. 27 00:01:50,070 --> 00:01:52,864 Tonight we're gonna talk about America. 28 00:01:52,948 --> 00:01:56,952 'Merica, land of boundless opportunity, 29 00:01:57,577 --> 00:01:59,287 where the rights are inalienable, 30 00:02:00,455 --> 00:02:01,790 buffets are all-you-can-eat. 31 00:02:01,873 --> 00:02:05,835 A land so great people escape their own countries 32 00:02:05,919 --> 00:02:10,006 to come to a place where people pay to escape a room. 33 00:02:10,090 --> 00:02:11,841 [audience laughs] 34 00:02:14,928 --> 00:02:18,181 Why don't you just fucking leave? Why don't you just leave the room? 35 00:02:20,559 --> 00:02:23,478 But one American treasure towers above all others, 36 00:02:23,562 --> 00:02:27,941 our most precious resource of them all, 37 00:02:28,024 --> 00:02:29,025 freedom. 38 00:02:29,109 --> 00:02:32,946 Freedom flows in American veins. 39 00:02:33,029 --> 00:02:34,072 -Freedom. -Freedom. 40 00:02:34,155 --> 00:02:35,782 -Freedom! -Freedom! 41 00:02:35,865 --> 00:02:37,701 -Freedom! -Freedom! 42 00:02:37,784 --> 00:02:39,452 Freedom! 43 00:02:39,536 --> 00:02:41,204 [audience laughs] 44 00:02:45,166 --> 00:02:47,627 That last gentlemen seems very likable. 45 00:02:49,296 --> 00:02:50,338 [chuckles] 46 00:02:52,173 --> 00:02:56,219 But, you know, freedom isn't just our greatest gift. 47 00:02:56,303 --> 00:02:58,221 [woman] Freedom is delicious. 48 00:02:58,305 --> 00:03:01,057 [man 1] Cars and freedom. 49 00:03:01,141 --> 00:03:04,519 [man 2] Join your friends for our Freedom Polka Cruise 2022. 50 00:03:08,982 --> 00:03:13,320 By the way, "Freedom Polka Cruise" was actually Ted Cruz's birth name. 51 00:03:20,368 --> 00:03:21,661 He changed it. 52 00:03:22,370 --> 00:03:23,997 Freedom is America's best trait. 53 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,168 It is smoked meat in a muscle car on a cruise ship. 54 00:03:28,251 --> 00:03:30,837 So, is there a catch? 55 00:03:30,921 --> 00:03:32,589 Freedom is not free. 56 00:03:33,423 --> 00:03:35,675 Oh, right. 57 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:37,761 It's not free. 58 00:03:37,844 --> 00:03:42,057 Preserving freedom often takes courage and sacrifice. 59 00:03:42,140 --> 00:03:45,435 Or have you not spoken to your grandparents lately? 60 00:03:45,518 --> 00:03:48,480 They are known today as America's greatest generation. 61 00:03:48,563 --> 00:03:51,191 We had one purpose, and that was to win the war. 62 00:03:51,274 --> 00:03:55,278 Whether it was the rationing of meat or gasoline, 63 00:03:55,362 --> 00:03:58,198 or, uh, cigarettes or alcohol, or whatever. 64 00:03:58,281 --> 00:04:00,367 Women were asked to give up their silk stockings 65 00:04:00,450 --> 00:04:03,203 so they could be recycled for war purposes. 66 00:04:03,286 --> 00:04:08,416 Sure, it's a sacrifice. Give away your best pots, you know. 67 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:10,418 But it's war. You just did it. 68 00:04:10,502 --> 00:04:12,087 No pots… 69 00:04:12,170 --> 00:04:13,255 [audience laughs] 70 00:04:13,338 --> 00:04:18,175 …no pans. When I was your age, I had to grill the cheese on the sidewalk… 71 00:04:20,303 --> 00:04:21,930 all to defeat Hitler. 72 00:04:23,515 --> 00:04:26,851 And now there's a new threat to our freedom, COVID-19. 73 00:04:26,935 --> 00:04:30,480 It has stolen our freedom to send our kids to school, 74 00:04:30,564 --> 00:04:32,816 to exhale in a Starbucks, 75 00:04:32,899 --> 00:04:36,194 to kiss the chef on the lips after a delicious meal. 76 00:04:36,987 --> 00:04:38,446 Oh, Carmine… 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,161 your eggplant rollatini moves me. 78 00:04:48,164 --> 00:04:53,628 And so once again, to protect freedom, Americans must rise up together, 79 00:04:54,212 --> 00:04:58,633 making the individual sacrifices like wearing a mask 80 00:04:58,717 --> 00:05:04,764 to preserve the greater good of this land that God has granted… 81 00:05:04,848 --> 00:05:06,099 I won't be wearing my mask. 82 00:05:06,975 --> 00:05:08,894 [audience laughs] 83 00:05:08,977 --> 00:05:11,187 I'm-- I'm s-- I'm sorry. Patriot says what? 84 00:05:11,271 --> 00:05:12,480 I won't wear a mask. 85 00:05:15,358 --> 00:05:16,359 Why? 86 00:05:16,443 --> 00:05:19,905 I need you to tell me, how do I play a saxophone and sing with a mask on? 87 00:05:19,988 --> 00:05:21,156 I'll let you think about that. 88 00:05:21,239 --> 00:05:23,033 [audience laughs] 89 00:05:36,755 --> 00:05:39,633 [audience cheers, applauds] 90 00:05:44,012 --> 00:05:47,557 Oh, yeah, I can see how that's, uh-- It's not gonna-- 91 00:05:47,641 --> 00:05:49,184 It's not gonna work. Oh, wait. 92 00:05:51,603 --> 00:05:53,605 [saxophone playing] 93 00:05:56,107 --> 00:05:58,944 [high-pitched notes playing] 94 00:06:01,947 --> 00:06:03,782 [saxophone continues playing] 95 00:06:04,574 --> 00:06:09,496 [audience cheers, applauds] 96 00:06:13,041 --> 00:06:17,546 Yeah, I'm one of the few saxophonists who does it without the keys. 97 00:06:19,673 --> 00:06:22,008 It's all with the tongue and the airflow. 98 00:06:22,092 --> 00:06:23,802 I don't even need to… [imitates pressing keys] 99 00:06:23,885 --> 00:06:25,387 …I just-- [grunts] 100 00:06:27,639 --> 00:06:30,350 So freedom isn't free. 101 00:06:30,433 --> 00:06:33,436 But apparently, wearing a mask is too steep a price. 102 00:06:34,062 --> 00:06:36,565 They want to haggle a little bit. Well, that's all right. 103 00:06:36,648 --> 00:06:39,067 We have a vaccine whose efficacy 104 00:06:39,150 --> 00:06:41,903 will also preserve the foundation of this great nation. 105 00:06:42,445 --> 00:06:47,492 So as George Washington did with smallpox, so shall we… 106 00:06:47,576 --> 00:06:49,244 I will not be taking the vaccine. 107 00:06:49,327 --> 00:06:50,954 I won't get myself vaccinated. 108 00:06:51,037 --> 00:06:53,206 Yeah, I don't-- I'm not gonna get the COVID vaccine. 109 00:06:53,999 --> 00:06:55,667 [shouts] What the fuck? 110 00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:02,007 I thought we all agreed just a second ago that freedom isn't free, 111 00:07:02,090 --> 00:07:06,511 and patriots sacrifice to preserve that freedom. 112 00:07:06,595 --> 00:07:08,430 So, why not? 113 00:07:08,513 --> 00:07:09,514 Uh, I'm an American. 114 00:07:09,598 --> 00:07:12,100 I have the freedom to decide if I'm gonna take a vaccine or not. 115 00:07:12,183 --> 00:07:13,560 Freedom to choose. 116 00:07:13,643 --> 00:07:15,312 'Cause I believe in freedom. 117 00:07:15,395 --> 00:07:20,150 And forcing people to wear ma-- Uh, take vaccines is against freedom. 118 00:07:23,528 --> 00:07:25,822 I think you were evicted from your apartment as well. 119 00:07:25,906 --> 00:07:28,199 I don't know if you saw the… 120 00:07:29,701 --> 00:07:33,872 [sighs] All right. So you won't do it for freedom 121 00:07:33,955 --> 00:07:37,751 because your freedom… [sighs] 122 00:07:39,169 --> 00:07:42,964 This country is great because we have freedom. 123 00:07:43,048 --> 00:07:46,843 But I warn you, freedom isn't free. It requires sacrifice, 124 00:07:46,927 --> 00:07:50,847 which I don't have to make because of the freedom you sacrif-- 125 00:07:50,931 --> 00:07:51,973 Fuck! 126 00:07:52,057 --> 00:07:53,725 [audience laughs] 127 00:07:54,226 --> 00:07:58,772 These people's flag should be a Gadsden snake sucking its own dick. 128 00:08:03,235 --> 00:08:04,361 Well… 129 00:08:07,197 --> 00:08:10,116 By the way, I do not know if that is biologically accurate. 130 00:08:12,577 --> 00:08:15,038 That's the kind of thing that really wets my reed. 131 00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:19,501 More saxophone humor. 132 00:08:19,584 --> 00:08:21,586 And thus the problem with freedom. 133 00:08:22,087 --> 00:08:25,715 Individual freedom requires collective action. 134 00:08:25,799 --> 00:08:27,634 And a collective is a group. 135 00:08:27,717 --> 00:08:32,389 But if every sacrifice for the group is viewed as oppression, 136 00:08:32,472 --> 00:08:37,143 then we lose the ability to preserve your individual freedom. 137 00:08:38,270 --> 00:08:39,688 So I ask you again. 138 00:08:40,563 --> 00:08:43,275 Masks? Vaccines? 139 00:08:44,025 --> 00:08:45,026 Please? 140 00:08:45,110 --> 00:08:49,739 The Hitler of the Golden State, Gavin Newsom, gives the orders. 141 00:08:49,823 --> 00:08:53,868 Wear a mask, stay inside, don't travel… 142 00:08:53,952 --> 00:08:58,748 Socialist Democrat gestapo going door-to-door, house by house, 143 00:08:58,832 --> 00:09:02,335 uh, trying to stick syringes in people's arms. 144 00:09:02,419 --> 00:09:06,339 You're forcing people to wear masks? They were forced to wear a star. 145 00:09:06,423 --> 00:09:10,886 Using a Sharpie to brand students with a number 146 00:09:10,969 --> 00:09:15,181 to distinguish the unvaccinated from the vaccinated. 147 00:09:15,265 --> 00:09:20,061 A prom should never inspire images in my mind of Auschwitz. 148 00:09:21,688 --> 00:09:24,024 [audience laughs] 149 00:09:25,275 --> 00:09:26,443 Agreed. 150 00:09:28,236 --> 00:09:31,323 Auschwitz is a terrible prom theme. 151 00:09:37,203 --> 00:09:40,540 Ah, a Kristallnacht to remember. 152 00:09:44,377 --> 00:09:46,296 But I see the problem. 153 00:09:46,379 --> 00:09:52,761 You think the government taking public safety measures to combat COVID 154 00:09:52,844 --> 00:09:54,804 is like Hitler. 155 00:09:54,888 --> 00:09:59,142 And we think COVID is like Hitler. 156 00:09:59,976 --> 00:10:06,566 And so, it looks like we got ourselves a good old-fashioned Hitler-off! 157 00:10:07,651 --> 00:10:09,569 So once and for all, let's find out… 158 00:10:10,153 --> 00:10:14,616 what's more Hitler? 159 00:10:15,242 --> 00:10:17,369 I-- No, wait. 160 00:10:18,536 --> 00:10:20,789 I believe you were supposed to chant that with me, 161 00:10:20,872 --> 00:10:22,499 so we're gonna try that again. 162 00:10:23,875 --> 00:10:28,672 [all] What's more Hitler? 163 00:10:29,548 --> 00:10:32,759 Do you-- By the way, do you think that's how Hitler started? 164 00:10:32,842 --> 00:10:34,344 [audience laughs] 165 00:10:34,427 --> 00:10:38,265 [in German accent] Oh, they really like chanting the name "Hitler." 166 00:10:40,016 --> 00:10:41,768 [normal voice, chuckling] All right. Here's how-- 167 00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:44,604 Shit's getting dark fast, isn't it? 168 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,065 Here's how it's gonna go. 169 00:10:48,149 --> 00:10:50,527 You got your Hitler on the left there, 170 00:10:50,610 --> 00:10:55,365 and then you got your COVID and your COVID prevention methods. 171 00:10:55,448 --> 00:10:58,994 Which one will resemble Hitler more? 172 00:10:59,995 --> 00:11:02,038 First up, let's deal with body count. 173 00:11:02,122 --> 00:11:05,625 COVID's killed nearly five million people. 174 00:11:06,376 --> 00:11:07,627 Masks? 175 00:11:07,711 --> 00:11:09,045 Nobody. 176 00:11:09,921 --> 00:11:11,256 Vaccines? 177 00:11:11,339 --> 00:11:12,966 I don't know. Three? 178 00:11:13,967 --> 00:11:17,679 Let's say a hundred. You know what? I'll spot you a thousand. 179 00:11:18,305 --> 00:11:21,641 Clearly, on the issue of body count, 180 00:11:23,059 --> 00:11:25,812 COVID is the Hitler on this one. Point for COVID! 181 00:11:26,980 --> 00:11:30,901 All right. Let's go to territorial ambition. 182 00:11:30,984 --> 00:11:33,862 Hitler had tremendous territorial ambition. 183 00:11:34,654 --> 00:11:38,533 COVID is fucking everywhere. 184 00:11:39,951 --> 00:11:43,705 Masks and vaccines have barely made it to Florida. 185 00:11:45,373 --> 00:11:47,792 Point, COVID. 186 00:11:53,548 --> 00:11:55,634 COVID'S making it a runaway. 187 00:11:55,717 --> 00:11:58,345 All right, here's one. This is a little bit more fanciful. 188 00:11:58,428 --> 00:12:00,180 Time machine. 189 00:12:00,263 --> 00:12:02,057 They always ask, "If you had a time machine, 190 00:12:02,140 --> 00:12:04,893 would you go back in time, and would you kill baby Hitler?" 191 00:12:04,976 --> 00:12:08,021 And everybody's like, "I don't know if I could kill a baby." 192 00:12:08,104 --> 00:12:09,105 And I'm always like, 193 00:12:09,189 --> 00:12:12,317 "Oh, I think I'm probably strong enough to do that. I think…" 194 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,736 I'm not super strong, but I could probably do that. 195 00:12:16,655 --> 00:12:17,989 So… [chuckles] 196 00:12:18,073 --> 00:12:20,158 [audience laughs] 197 00:12:22,994 --> 00:12:24,329 I wouldn't… 198 00:12:25,664 --> 00:12:26,873 but I could. 199 00:12:29,084 --> 00:12:30,335 [chuckling] So… 200 00:12:31,586 --> 00:12:33,672 That wasn't-- That wasn't right. 201 00:12:34,881 --> 00:12:37,759 So if you could go back in time, would you kill COVID? 202 00:12:38,343 --> 00:12:41,054 -[woman in audience] Yes. -[all] Yes! 203 00:12:41,137 --> 00:12:43,723 Where would you go to kill it, the wet market or the laboratory? 204 00:12:43,807 --> 00:12:47,519 Oops, I stepped in it again. What have I done? Hmm? 205 00:12:47,602 --> 00:12:51,439 Hmm? Hmm? Hmm? Hmm? Hmm? 206 00:12:51,523 --> 00:12:54,734 And I'll tell you this. I would definitely fucking kill COVID as a baby. 207 00:12:54,818 --> 00:12:59,614 Now, would you, however, kill the immunosuppressed deli owner, 208 00:12:59,698 --> 00:13:03,243 who has made you put on a mask for 30 seconds to get a bagel, 209 00:13:03,326 --> 00:13:04,911 when he was a baby? 210 00:13:04,995 --> 00:13:06,705 I don't think you would. 211 00:13:06,788 --> 00:13:08,540 Point, COVID, for the time machine. 212 00:13:10,083 --> 00:13:12,252 Finally, propaganda. Now, I'll admit… 213 00:13:13,211 --> 00:13:18,300 COVID does not have a Riefenstahl-esque team burnishing its image. 214 00:13:19,092 --> 00:13:24,431 But COVID prevention doesn't really have any chilling propaganda videos either. 215 00:13:24,514 --> 00:13:28,643 ♪ Imagine there's no heaven ♪ 216 00:13:29,811 --> 00:13:31,605 [audience laughs] 217 00:13:34,149 --> 00:13:36,401 Point, COVID prevention. Um… 218 00:13:37,819 --> 00:13:39,654 But I don't have to imagine, I'm living it. 219 00:13:39,738 --> 00:13:42,282 Better propaganda videos? All right, that goes there. 220 00:13:42,365 --> 00:13:47,746 But clearly, on the important measure, deaths, 221 00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:49,998 COVID's more Hitler. 222 00:13:50,749 --> 00:13:54,211 And so we find ourselves in an absurd place, 223 00:13:54,294 --> 00:13:59,674 where minor sacrifices to preserve freedom now lead to violent backlash, 224 00:13:59,758 --> 00:14:01,676 'cause they think it's leading to Hitler. 225 00:14:02,302 --> 00:14:07,599 You got militias, in the name of freedom, storming representative governments, 226 00:14:07,682 --> 00:14:10,852 because those individuals were asked to wear a mask. 227 00:14:10,936 --> 00:14:13,688 And the absurdity doesn't stop at masks and vaccines. 228 00:14:13,772 --> 00:14:20,070 We're in a world where proud patriots beat a cop with an American flag 229 00:14:20,153 --> 00:14:24,532 to overturn a democratic election in the name of freedom. 230 00:14:24,616 --> 00:14:31,206 Is our democracy robust enough to withstand a freedom without definition, 231 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:38,213 or a fear of a future Hitler that won't allow us to take even minor steps 232 00:14:38,296 --> 00:14:40,465 to stop a current slaughter? 233 00:14:42,175 --> 00:14:46,221 I guess we'll find out on next week's episode of… 234 00:14:47,264 --> 00:14:51,601 [all] What's More Hitler? 235 00:14:51,685 --> 00:14:53,228 We'll be right back. 236 00:14:53,311 --> 00:14:55,730 [audience cheers, applauds] 237 00:15:04,281 --> 00:15:06,616 Oh! [chuckles] Hello. 238 00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:11,371 I hear wearing a mask has made you oppressed. 239 00:15:11,454 --> 00:15:13,290 [lively piano music plays] 240 00:15:14,457 --> 00:15:16,918 You might be new to being oppressed. 241 00:15:17,002 --> 00:15:20,755 Well, I have some advice to help you out. 242 00:15:21,506 --> 00:15:22,716 Tip one. 243 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:25,969 [shouting] Have y'all lost your goddamn minds? 244 00:15:26,052 --> 00:15:28,430 Shut the fuck up. 245 00:15:29,306 --> 00:15:30,849 Shut the fuck up. 246 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,563 Black people have been dealing with oppression for 400 years. 247 00:15:36,646 --> 00:15:39,441 And y'all couldn't last ten months. 248 00:15:39,524 --> 00:15:41,860 They picked cotton. 249 00:15:42,611 --> 00:15:44,195 You just have to wear it. 250 00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:49,618 We're trying to sell you a mask, not sell you. 251 00:15:49,701 --> 00:15:51,453 You stupid motherfuckers, 252 00:15:51,536 --> 00:15:53,955 you're not enslaved, 253 00:15:54,539 --> 00:15:56,249 you're uncomfortable. 254 00:15:57,125 --> 00:15:59,920 And I'm so sorry, assholes. 255 00:16:03,256 --> 00:16:06,343 -[plays piano] -♪ You are not oppressed ♪ 256 00:16:07,802 --> 00:16:10,680 You better put that shit to rest, yeah? 257 00:16:10,764 --> 00:16:13,725 -[piano music fades, stops] -[audience cheers, applauds] 258 00:16:13,808 --> 00:16:19,022 Freedom and democracy have been declining around the world for 15 years in a row. 259 00:16:19,105 --> 00:16:23,818 75% of people on Earth live in countries where freedom is declining. 260 00:16:23,902 --> 00:16:27,239 The United States has seen a dramatic decline 261 00:16:27,322 --> 00:16:29,115 in political rights and civil liberties 262 00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:30,784 over the past ten years. 263 00:16:30,867 --> 00:16:33,536 That's something that's accelerated 264 00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:35,330 during the past four years. 265 00:16:35,413 --> 00:16:37,666 Specifically, we saw declines 266 00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:41,461 due to mass arrests and violence against journalists at protests, 267 00:16:41,545 --> 00:16:44,256 the dismissal of inspectors general, 268 00:16:44,339 --> 00:16:47,968 as well as a general lack of transparency around COVID-19 prevention 269 00:16:48,051 --> 00:16:50,804 and the treatment of immigrants and asylum seekers. 270 00:16:50,887 --> 00:16:54,975 More countries are now trending authoritarian than democratic, 271 00:16:55,058 --> 00:16:58,562 and by the largest margin that we've ever recorded. 272 00:16:58,645 --> 00:17:02,691 Leaders like Orbán, Trump, Duda, and even Putin, 273 00:17:02,774 --> 00:17:05,110 were democratically elected at first, 274 00:17:05,193 --> 00:17:08,405 and then don't wanna risk losing power in the next election. 275 00:17:08,487 --> 00:17:12,367 So they use division and fear tactics to convince their people into giving up 276 00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:15,620 more and more of their political rights and civil liberties. 277 00:17:15,704 --> 00:17:20,792 I left the country almost 11 years ago when Viktor Orbán came to power 278 00:17:20,875 --> 00:17:25,380 and decided to get rid of the election committee, 279 00:17:25,463 --> 00:17:27,340 including myself. 280 00:17:27,424 --> 00:17:32,596 They dismantled many guarantees of fundamental rights, 281 00:17:32,679 --> 00:17:34,347 independent judiciary, 282 00:17:34,431 --> 00:17:37,601 independent constitutional courts. 283 00:17:37,684 --> 00:17:43,315 So this is not just changing a constitutional system. 284 00:17:43,398 --> 00:17:47,569 It's changing the entire society. 285 00:17:47,652 --> 00:17:52,157 There's a slow erosion of the principles of democracy. 286 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,411 The essence of democracy is someone has to be willing to lose. 287 00:17:56,494 --> 00:17:58,872 And if you look around the world today, 288 00:17:58,955 --> 00:18:01,917 most democracies fall 289 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,087 not because of violent coups, but at the ballot box. 290 00:18:09,216 --> 00:18:11,551 [audience cheers] 291 00:18:11,635 --> 00:18:12,886 Hey. Welcome back. 292 00:18:13,887 --> 00:18:16,890 So, uh, so far, we're talking about sacrifices, masks, Hitler, 293 00:18:16,973 --> 00:18:18,600 freedom, the breakdown of democracy. 294 00:18:18,683 --> 00:18:22,020 Uh, we have with us some folks who have suffered the consequences 295 00:18:22,103 --> 00:18:24,189 of when it all erodes. 296 00:18:24,272 --> 00:18:27,567 Bassem Youssef was a incredibly popular political comedian 297 00:18:27,651 --> 00:18:29,819 and TV host in Egypt forced to flee the country 298 00:18:29,903 --> 00:18:32,113 after facing multiple threats from the government. 299 00:18:32,197 --> 00:18:35,200 Francisco Marquez is a Venezuelan lawyer and activist 300 00:18:35,283 --> 00:18:37,744 who spent time as a political prisoner in Venezuela, 301 00:18:37,827 --> 00:18:39,663 and has now been exiled to the United States. 302 00:18:39,746 --> 00:18:42,707 And Maria Ressa is a journalist in the Philippines 303 00:18:42,791 --> 00:18:45,126 currently facing multiple charges, 304 00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:48,004 uh, that could put her in jail for a very, very long time. 305 00:18:48,088 --> 00:18:50,257 She's found guilty of one charge already, 306 00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:51,550 and that verdict has been called 307 00:18:51,633 --> 00:18:54,928 "one of the largest setbacks to democracy ever in the Philippines." 308 00:18:55,011 --> 00:18:56,680 She joins us from Manila, 309 00:18:56,763 --> 00:19:00,392 uh, because she is not allowed presently to leave that country. 310 00:19:00,475 --> 00:19:04,062 Uh, thank you, guys, so much for joining us. 311 00:19:04,145 --> 00:19:06,273 Uh, Maria, I want to get to you first 312 00:19:06,356 --> 00:19:09,276 because who knows when they cut the feed off. 313 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,779 Uh, Maria, you are currently in the Philippines, 314 00:19:12,862 --> 00:19:15,532 and you are up against terrible charges. 315 00:19:15,615 --> 00:19:17,617 Tell us your situation right now. 316 00:19:17,701 --> 00:19:19,536 Well, first of all, thank you for having me. 317 00:19:19,619 --> 00:19:20,829 And you are absolutely hilarious. 318 00:19:20,912 --> 00:19:23,832 Uh, first-- I guess in the last two years-- 319 00:19:23,915 --> 00:19:25,709 in less than two years, 320 00:19:25,792 --> 00:19:29,421 the Philippine government has filed ten arrest warrants against me. 321 00:19:29,504 --> 00:19:33,091 The company I cofounded in 2012, Rappler, 322 00:19:33,174 --> 00:19:36,094 has nine charges, so I have one more. 323 00:19:36,177 --> 00:19:41,391 Um, I was convicted, as you said, last year, uh, for cyber-libel 324 00:19:41,474 --> 00:19:45,520 for a crime that didn't exist when I allegedly committed it. 325 00:19:45,604 --> 00:19:48,315 But you look in the context of the Philippines, 326 00:19:48,398 --> 00:19:54,362 uh, in 2016, Rappler stood up against a brutal drug war 327 00:19:54,446 --> 00:19:57,949 that human rights activists say has killed tens of thousands of people 328 00:19:58,033 --> 00:19:59,743 now in the last five years. 329 00:19:59,826 --> 00:20:03,622 And, uh, we also exposed social media. 330 00:20:03,705 --> 00:20:07,542 And the Philippines, for the sixth year in a row-- 331 00:20:07,626 --> 00:20:11,880 We spend the most time online and on social media globally. 332 00:20:11,963 --> 00:20:17,427 In 2016, we tried to stop the impunity of Duterte and Mark Zuckerberg, 333 00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:19,304 and we have, so far, failed in both. 334 00:20:19,387 --> 00:20:21,097 But we keep going! 335 00:20:21,181 --> 00:20:25,352 Duterte is the one who has brought the charges against you. 336 00:20:25,435 --> 00:20:28,396 And what do you fa-- If you are convicted, what do you face? 337 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,233 The rest of my life in jail, you know. 338 00:20:31,316 --> 00:20:34,236 And-- And again, we come to an existential moment, 339 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:37,572 just like you did in your November elections. 340 00:20:37,656 --> 00:20:40,533 President Duterte has one six-year term. 341 00:20:40,617 --> 00:20:43,745 We have presidential elections May next year. 342 00:20:43,828 --> 00:20:48,959 If no guard rails are put in place on those American social media companies, 343 00:20:49,042 --> 00:20:51,878 then there's no way we will have integrity of elections. 344 00:20:51,962 --> 00:20:53,672 And there's no way I can see 345 00:20:53,755 --> 00:20:57,425 as much attention being put on elections outside the United States 346 00:20:57,509 --> 00:20:59,970 as you guys put on the US elections. 347 00:21:00,053 --> 00:21:01,721 And you barely squeak through. 348 00:21:01,805 --> 00:21:03,598 And look at January 6th, right? 349 00:21:03,682 --> 00:21:04,849 That wasn't a surprise. 350 00:21:04,933 --> 00:21:08,979 The new propaganda is a behavior modification system. 351 00:21:09,062 --> 00:21:11,856 A lie told a million times becomes a fact. 352 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:15,610 And I think we all, sort of, view social media as perhaps an annoyance 353 00:21:15,694 --> 00:21:17,070 but still somewhat innocuous. 354 00:21:17,153 --> 00:21:19,823 But I think you're saying, "Man, the real world consequences of it." 355 00:21:19,906 --> 00:21:23,326 Now, uh, Francisco, you're coming from Venezuela. 356 00:21:23,410 --> 00:21:26,329 Venezuela is, for the American right, 357 00:21:26,413 --> 00:21:29,374 you're the model of where we're going 358 00:21:29,457 --> 00:21:33,253 if we end up with, like, a national health care. 359 00:21:33,336 --> 00:21:37,591 So, you're the-- You're the government that we point to 360 00:21:37,674 --> 00:21:40,927 to say, "Hey, man, you don't wanna be Venezuela." 361 00:21:41,011 --> 00:21:42,220 It's not socialism. 362 00:21:42,304 --> 00:21:44,097 It's a dictatorship of Maduro. 363 00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:47,183 It's not about the form of government they have, 364 00:21:47,267 --> 00:21:49,102 it's the way they're exercising it. Yes? 365 00:21:49,686 --> 00:21:52,147 I mean, they're self-professed socialists, 366 00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:53,773 -but there's more to it than that. -Mm-hmm. 367 00:21:53,857 --> 00:21:55,650 You know, there's Maduro who is-- 368 00:21:55,734 --> 00:21:57,402 Just today, came out a report on the UN 369 00:21:57,485 --> 00:21:59,863 saying that he committed crimes against humanity. 370 00:21:59,946 --> 00:22:02,032 He's one of the few dictators 371 00:22:02,115 --> 00:22:05,243 who is currently under investigation in the International Criminal Court. 372 00:22:05,327 --> 00:22:07,579 And just to explain, crimes against humanity only occurs 373 00:22:07,662 --> 00:22:10,540 when there's wide and systematic persecution 374 00:22:10,624 --> 00:22:11,750 and human rights violations. 375 00:22:11,833 --> 00:22:15,212 So it's not just one person. We're talking about thousands of people. 376 00:22:15,295 --> 00:22:17,756 Uh, my case, I was in prison for four months, 377 00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:20,592 -but I'm only one out of thousands. -And you were imprisoned for? 378 00:22:20,675 --> 00:22:23,136 I helped organize a petition drive-- 379 00:22:23,220 --> 00:22:26,932 Just to get signatures, basically, to do a recall election on Maduro. 380 00:22:27,015 --> 00:22:30,101 In the process of doing that, uh, I was put in prison. 381 00:22:30,185 --> 00:22:34,022 Uh, you know, there were weeks at a time that I couldn't see sunlight, 382 00:22:34,105 --> 00:22:37,442 uh, had limited access to food or-- or even visitation. 383 00:22:37,525 --> 00:22:41,279 Uh, you know, another person was tortured in front of me for 30 minutes 384 00:22:41,363 --> 00:22:42,864 just to send me a message. 385 00:22:42,948 --> 00:22:45,659 And I still remember till this day, the director of the prison, 386 00:22:45,742 --> 00:22:48,119 he said, "Make sure that when you get out, 387 00:22:48,203 --> 00:22:51,206 you say all the horrible things that you lived through and that you saw 388 00:22:51,289 --> 00:22:53,917 because that will give me good creds with the people up top." 389 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,168 It's about intimidation. 390 00:22:55,252 --> 00:22:58,588 And Maria's case, in the same way, they're making an example of somebody 391 00:22:58,672 --> 00:23:02,842 in the hopes that they can tamp down the entire population. 392 00:23:02,926 --> 00:23:06,805 Although, to be fair, you did try and get people to sign a petition. 393 00:23:06,888 --> 00:23:08,848 -[audience chuckles] -Big crime. 394 00:23:08,932 --> 00:23:10,850 -Big crime. -[chuckles] How did you get out? 395 00:23:10,934 --> 00:23:14,688 Uh-- I was lucky enough that I was a dual citizen of the US… 396 00:23:14,771 --> 00:23:16,189 -Okay. -…and the government got involved. 397 00:23:16,273 --> 00:23:19,609 There was also a big international campaign to free-- 398 00:23:19,693 --> 00:23:22,487 done by my family and other political people. 399 00:23:22,571 --> 00:23:23,613 But I was fortunate. 400 00:23:23,697 --> 00:23:25,865 I'm fortunate enough here to be able to tell this story 401 00:23:25,949 --> 00:23:28,660 so people understand what's going on in Venezuela. 402 00:23:28,743 --> 00:23:30,495 [Stewart] Bassem, your case is a little bit different. 403 00:23:30,579 --> 00:23:32,914 Bassem is a very old friend of mine. 404 00:23:32,998 --> 00:23:36,793 Uh, Bassem was the biggest thing in Egypt. 405 00:23:36,877 --> 00:23:38,086 Come on. 406 00:23:38,169 --> 00:23:40,922 -[audience cheers, applauds] -Don't-- Bassem! 407 00:23:41,006 --> 00:23:42,883 -Ah, yeah. -It was the-- 408 00:23:42,966 --> 00:23:46,011 -Pyramids and Bassem. Pyramids and Bassem. -[audience member shouts] 409 00:23:46,094 --> 00:23:47,262 [audience member shouts] 410 00:23:47,345 --> 00:23:50,724 And I was fortunate enough to come to Cairo and do your show 411 00:23:50,807 --> 00:23:54,269 right before the overthrow of Morsi. 412 00:23:54,352 --> 00:23:55,562 And it really-- 413 00:23:55,645 --> 00:23:57,981 Just a wonderful, safe environment. 414 00:23:58,064 --> 00:23:59,983 -[audience laughs] -The, um… 415 00:24:00,066 --> 00:24:01,860 But tell a little bit about your story, 416 00:24:01,943 --> 00:24:06,364 because you were a hero when Mubarak and Morsi were in charge. 417 00:24:06,448 --> 00:24:08,700 [stammers] When the Muslim Brotherhood-- 418 00:24:08,783 --> 00:24:10,911 And then I was kind of like the national hero. 419 00:24:10,994 --> 00:24:13,371 I was the one who stood against the Islamists 420 00:24:13,455 --> 00:24:15,749 and then the military came in, and kind of like-- 421 00:24:15,832 --> 00:24:20,003 I turned from a national hero into a-- the number-one enemy of state. 422 00:24:20,086 --> 00:24:24,799 Uh, and people who were pro-military, which is very popular, 423 00:24:24,883 --> 00:24:26,885 they kind of didn't like my jokes. 424 00:24:26,968 --> 00:24:29,763 And it's kind of like-- It was a very hard lesson for me to understand 425 00:24:29,846 --> 00:24:31,640 -that when it comes to satire… -Mm-hmm. 426 00:24:31,723 --> 00:24:34,517 …authoritarian figures are pretty much thin-skinned. 427 00:24:34,601 --> 00:24:37,395 You know, I wanna borrow your, uh, 428 00:24:37,479 --> 00:24:40,815 the title of your show, which is The Problem with… 429 00:24:40,899 --> 00:24:44,486 The problem with freedom is that, more often than not, 430 00:24:44,569 --> 00:24:45,987 people who call for freedom, 431 00:24:46,071 --> 00:24:48,240 they actually call for a tailor-made version 432 00:24:48,323 --> 00:24:49,658 that actually works for them 433 00:24:49,741 --> 00:24:51,993 with a total disregard of other people's freedom. 434 00:24:52,077 --> 00:24:54,454 They use freedom as a cudgel to get what they want. 435 00:24:54,537 --> 00:24:55,580 -Yeah. -Right. 436 00:24:55,664 --> 00:24:59,000 Uh, you know, whether it's just like a right-wing here that's saying, like, 437 00:24:59,084 --> 00:25:00,794 "Oh, we-- we like freedom, 438 00:25:00,877 --> 00:25:04,172 but not women's freedom to have her own choice over her body." 439 00:25:04,256 --> 00:25:05,757 -[Stewart] Right. -Or back in Egypt. 440 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,552 No, so in the Middle East in general, in Muslim countries, it's like, 441 00:25:08,635 --> 00:25:10,637 "Oh, my God. You're banning burkas and hijabs." 442 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,472 But they have absolutely no regard 443 00:25:12,556 --> 00:25:15,350 for women who want to take off their hijab in the Muslim countries, right? 444 00:25:15,433 --> 00:25:16,768 So this is kind of the hypocrisy. 445 00:25:16,851 --> 00:25:18,645 It's like, "The freedom that works for me." You know? 446 00:25:18,728 --> 00:25:20,772 Right. And it was interesting too, because… 447 00:25:20,855 --> 00:25:22,732 And I'm looking at, for Americans, 448 00:25:22,816 --> 00:25:25,110 if this were the Three Bears and Goldilocks, 449 00:25:25,193 --> 00:25:26,820 you know, "That's too military." 450 00:25:26,903 --> 00:25:28,822 "That's too socialist." 451 00:25:28,905 --> 00:25:31,032 -Philippines is just right. -[Youssef] Yeah. 452 00:25:31,116 --> 00:25:32,951 -[audience chuckles] -Duterte really is-- 453 00:25:33,034 --> 00:25:37,455 He's a model, I think, of an authoritarian figure in the West. 454 00:25:37,539 --> 00:25:39,583 He was democratically elected. 455 00:25:40,584 --> 00:25:43,753 He's probably still very popular in the Philippines. 456 00:25:43,837 --> 00:25:44,880 And what he's done is, 457 00:25:44,963 --> 00:25:51,136 he's consolidated what you would think are the democratic guard rails, 458 00:25:51,219 --> 00:25:53,054 and he's taken them over. 459 00:25:53,805 --> 00:25:59,352 And does that make removing him democratically an impossibility? 460 00:25:59,436 --> 00:26:01,855 How can you actually have integrity of elections 461 00:26:01,938 --> 00:26:06,985 if your information ecosystem pushes lies, laced with anger and hate, 462 00:26:07,068 --> 00:26:09,779 faster and further than facts, one. 463 00:26:09,863 --> 00:26:13,283 When your truth tellers, your journalists, your human rights activists 464 00:26:13,366 --> 00:26:18,788 are being jailed, killed, or, well, like you, intimidated to silence. 465 00:26:18,872 --> 00:26:20,916 Although I guess I'm not silent yet. 466 00:26:20,999 --> 00:26:22,834 Um, and then the third one is, 467 00:26:22,918 --> 00:26:26,421 you know, you have to lift that environment of violence and fear 468 00:26:26,504 --> 00:26:29,049 both in the real world and in the virtual world 469 00:26:29,132 --> 00:26:32,344 so that people will even stick their necks out to actually vote. 470 00:26:32,427 --> 00:26:35,388 There are always consequences to standing up. 471 00:26:36,014 --> 00:26:39,517 That's an incredible point about information. 472 00:26:39,601 --> 00:26:41,728 And it, in some ways, goes back to what you were saying. 473 00:26:41,811 --> 00:26:45,357 Freedom, right? We all look at it as, "Well, I get to say what I want." 474 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,567 But if you were on the other side saying, 475 00:26:47,651 --> 00:26:52,239 "This is misinformation, and it's polluting our democracy," 476 00:26:52,322 --> 00:26:56,743 how do you censor that or how do you manage that 477 00:26:57,244 --> 00:27:00,455 or use any kind of editorial authority on that 478 00:27:00,538 --> 00:27:04,251 without being seen as somewhat autocratic in your own right? 479 00:27:04,334 --> 00:27:06,419 -Who makes the decision? -Yeah. 480 00:27:06,503 --> 00:27:08,672 Yeah. Uh, it's like, "Who draws the lines?" 481 00:27:08,755 --> 00:27:11,341 And, "How far is the line?" And, "Who decides about the line?" 482 00:27:11,424 --> 00:27:12,634 -Right. -You had an election, 483 00:27:12,717 --> 00:27:14,678 and people kind of like didn't accept it, 484 00:27:14,761 --> 00:27:16,888 and went and wanted to take things in their own hand. 485 00:27:16,972 --> 00:27:19,516 But what happened in January 6th-- 486 00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:22,561 I mean, the worst thing that happened on there is the comparisons. 487 00:27:22,644 --> 00:27:24,854 Like people, like the pundit on the news, were saying, 488 00:27:24,938 --> 00:27:28,066 "Oh, my God. This looks like a coup from the Middle East." 489 00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:29,776 And this kind of hurt my feeling, because-- 490 00:27:29,859 --> 00:27:30,944 -[laughing] -No, seriously. 491 00:27:32,237 --> 00:27:34,698 You know-- [stammers] Like, first of all, first of all, 492 00:27:34,781 --> 00:27:37,242 when we have a coup in the Middle East, it works. 493 00:27:37,325 --> 00:27:40,036 -[Stewart laughing] -[audience laughing] 494 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:42,330 -You guys suck. -[applause] 495 00:27:42,414 --> 00:27:44,666 -You guys-- -We're new. This is new. 496 00:27:44,749 --> 00:27:46,042 -You are-- -We're trying. 497 00:27:46,126 --> 00:27:50,422 Keep-- Keep to what you do best, toppling democracy in the other countries. 498 00:27:50,505 --> 00:27:53,675 -But, like, when you come to your country… -Son of a bitch. 499 00:27:53,758 --> 00:27:55,552 -…you suck. -[applause continues] 500 00:27:55,635 --> 00:27:58,638 And the thing is, every time it's like, "Oh, coup in the Middle East." 501 00:27:58,722 --> 00:27:59,973 "Oh, white Isis." 502 00:28:00,056 --> 00:28:01,266 "Uh, Texas Taliban." 503 00:28:01,349 --> 00:28:02,767 Get your own references. 504 00:28:02,851 --> 00:28:06,021 I mean, it's-- Why are we being dragged into this every time? 505 00:28:06,104 --> 00:28:08,315 You know we're hyperbolic. That's who we are. 506 00:28:08,398 --> 00:28:10,734 You think I have you guys on here 507 00:28:10,817 --> 00:28:12,777 because I wanna know what your lives are like? 508 00:28:12,861 --> 00:28:15,280 -I wanna know what's gonna happen to us. -[giggles] 509 00:28:15,363 --> 00:28:17,032 You're the canaries in the coal mine. 510 00:28:17,115 --> 00:28:19,701 I just wanna find out what the fuck's gonna happen to us. 511 00:28:19,784 --> 00:28:21,786 We're gonna take a break. We're gonna come back. 512 00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:25,248 We're gonna talk about the democratic guard rails 513 00:28:25,332 --> 00:28:26,791 that keep a democracy 514 00:28:26,875 --> 00:28:29,628 from dissolving into dictatorship and chaos. 515 00:28:29,711 --> 00:28:31,087 We'll be right back. 516 00:28:31,171 --> 00:28:33,798 [audience applauds, cheers] 517 00:28:35,717 --> 00:28:36,718 Maria! 518 00:28:41,431 --> 00:28:43,225 [Brinda] There are people who are saying 519 00:28:43,308 --> 00:28:46,603 they've never been so worried about American democracy than in this moment. 520 00:28:46,686 --> 00:28:53,526 The ultimate problem may be, like, it's fucking messier than an autocrat. 521 00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:55,862 And it's kind of-- 522 00:28:55,946 --> 00:28:59,115 Look, if there was someone who agreed with me on everything, 523 00:28:59,199 --> 00:29:01,910 and, like, used executive action to do it. 524 00:29:01,993 --> 00:29:05,247 -[Reza] Yeah. -I'm sure I'd be like, "You go, boy." 525 00:29:05,330 --> 00:29:08,250 [all laughing] 526 00:29:08,333 --> 00:29:10,418 Everybody wants to ban shit that they don't agree with. 527 00:29:10,502 --> 00:29:12,462 -Yep. -And how do you square that? 528 00:29:13,713 --> 00:29:15,840 -Good night. -[all laughing] 529 00:29:17,592 --> 00:29:18,593 [applause] 530 00:29:18,677 --> 00:29:20,178 Uh, welcome back. 531 00:29:20,262 --> 00:29:24,140 We're speaking with Bassem Youssef, Francisco Marquez and Maria Ressa. 532 00:29:24,224 --> 00:29:26,560 Guys, I wanna-- Let's connect some dots. 533 00:29:26,643 --> 00:29:29,729 We start out-- We're just talking about sort of something simple, 534 00:29:29,813 --> 00:29:34,484 which is a population being asked to take some simple measures 535 00:29:34,568 --> 00:29:36,361 like wearing a mask or getting a vaccine 536 00:29:36,444 --> 00:29:39,489 to stem a virus that's killing so many people 537 00:29:39,573 --> 00:29:44,160 so that we can all get back to, uh, a more free life. 538 00:29:44,244 --> 00:29:49,082 But we really are on-- Which slippery slope are we on? 539 00:29:49,165 --> 00:29:53,461 And how close are we to this kind of autocracy 540 00:29:53,545 --> 00:29:56,047 that you all speak about? 541 00:29:56,131 --> 00:29:59,509 And are Americans hyperventilating needlessly? 542 00:30:00,135 --> 00:30:02,554 I understand that people are scared and worried about 543 00:30:02,637 --> 00:30:04,931 where this is going to go, is it gonna get worse? 544 00:30:05,015 --> 00:30:06,308 I mean, so far-- 545 00:30:06,391 --> 00:30:09,311 I mean, America has proven it's still a good democracy. 546 00:30:09,394 --> 00:30:11,313 It still works. You still have elections. 547 00:30:11,396 --> 00:30:14,316 You can have the power to change people you don't like. 548 00:30:14,399 --> 00:30:15,609 But the problem is, I think-- 549 00:30:15,692 --> 00:30:18,320 If there's ever-- I hope not because I live here now. 550 00:30:18,403 --> 00:30:19,946 -Uh, if there's ever-- -[chuckles] 551 00:30:20,030 --> 00:30:21,573 Like, the death of democracy and everything. 552 00:30:21,656 --> 00:30:24,951 The death of democracy in America could only be summarized in one word: money. 553 00:30:25,619 --> 00:30:29,039 Look, it is about power and money all across the board. 554 00:30:29,122 --> 00:30:30,290 Power and money. 555 00:30:30,373 --> 00:30:32,334 So think of-- The phases are this, right? 556 00:30:32,417 --> 00:30:36,588 Someone seeds a metanarrative that is kind of half-true, 557 00:30:36,671 --> 00:30:41,051 it infects, it becomes a virus of lies and infects real people, 558 00:30:41,134 --> 00:30:43,678 then those real people spread it. 559 00:30:43,762 --> 00:30:48,141 That is a diseased system, and that is what we're living in. 560 00:30:48,225 --> 00:30:50,143 Our dystopia is your dystopia. 561 00:30:50,227 --> 00:30:52,395 Frankly, partly your creation. 562 00:30:52,479 --> 00:30:55,857 -It's like we're fighting two pandemics. -[audience applauds] 563 00:30:55,941 --> 00:30:58,068 And two viral things. 564 00:30:58,151 --> 00:30:59,444 It's interesting, I originally said, 565 00:30:59,527 --> 00:31:02,155 "Oh, this is like the fable of the Three Bears." 566 00:31:02,239 --> 00:31:03,281 It's really Scarface. 567 00:31:03,365 --> 00:31:06,493 It's about-- It's first you get the money, then you get the power. 568 00:31:06,576 --> 00:31:11,414 And January 6, the people who went to Capitol Hill, 569 00:31:11,498 --> 00:31:15,210 they're not gonna change what they think overnight. 570 00:31:15,293 --> 00:31:16,419 They're not going-- 571 00:31:16,503 --> 00:31:20,090 It's gonna take years because it plays to their cognitive bias. 572 00:31:20,173 --> 00:31:21,800 We keep bringing up January 6 573 00:31:21,883 --> 00:31:26,304 as though that's the seminal moment, and in my mind, it's really not. 574 00:31:26,388 --> 00:31:28,807 -It was the TV show moment. -Mm-hmm. 575 00:31:28,890 --> 00:31:33,853 But I think what's more dangerous is what's happening afterwards. 576 00:31:34,604 --> 00:31:39,109 You know, Trump is targeting states that have Republican legislatures. 577 00:31:39,192 --> 00:31:42,487 And in some ways, he's like a white hat hacker. 578 00:31:42,571 --> 00:31:46,324 He exposed where the democracies are vulnerable. 579 00:31:46,408 --> 00:31:49,828 "Oh, there's certain areas of elections that are generally-- 580 00:31:49,911 --> 00:31:53,832 They're held by partisans, but they're generally administrative. 581 00:31:53,915 --> 00:31:57,294 And if I replace them with idealogues 582 00:31:58,086 --> 00:32:02,966 and the country is so closely divided that it all comes down to these states, 583 00:32:03,049 --> 00:32:07,429 I've just removed any margin of error from having to win an election." 584 00:32:07,512 --> 00:32:08,805 I don't think this country's-- 585 00:32:08,889 --> 00:32:14,436 The danger isn't necessarily dictatorship, it's permanent minority rule. 586 00:32:15,604 --> 00:32:17,355 This is the challenge that we have. 587 00:32:17,439 --> 00:32:21,192 And look, I mean, Duterte was Trump before Trump was Trump. 588 00:32:21,276 --> 00:32:22,277 Right? [chuckles] And-- 589 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,613 When Trump was elected in the United States, 590 00:32:24,696 --> 00:32:27,908 the diplomatic community here was going, "Why are they so similar?" 591 00:32:27,991 --> 00:32:30,785 And part of the reason they're so similar is 592 00:32:30,869 --> 00:32:34,331 because of the way they communicate, the "us" against "them." 593 00:32:34,414 --> 00:32:36,875 The way they use the digital landscape. 594 00:32:36,958 --> 00:32:39,669 So this is what we're battling. 595 00:32:39,753 --> 00:32:44,049 Um, Venezuela, though, is still a bit different 596 00:32:44,132 --> 00:32:47,052 because Egypt and the Philippines are still working on 597 00:32:47,135 --> 00:32:52,474 sort of a strange alt-world democracy as its foundation. 598 00:32:52,557 --> 00:32:57,979 Venezuela looks much more like when we mythologize a dictatorship. 599 00:32:58,063 --> 00:33:00,982 If Duterte and Sisi were up for election, 600 00:33:01,066 --> 00:33:03,276 I think they would probably win the popular vote. 601 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,527 I don't think Maduro would. 602 00:33:04,611 --> 00:33:07,280 No, Maduro is completely rejected by the majority of the people. 603 00:33:07,364 --> 00:33:10,992 And I would like to signal-- We were talking about slow erosion of democracy. 604 00:33:11,076 --> 00:33:13,620 You know, Venezuela wasn't always a dictatorship. 605 00:33:13,703 --> 00:33:17,749 We were the beacon of democracy for 40-50 years in South America. 606 00:33:17,832 --> 00:33:20,168 And look at Venezuela because of that dictatorship, 607 00:33:20,252 --> 00:33:23,380 six million Venezuelans have fled in the last five years. 608 00:33:23,463 --> 00:33:27,300 We are the largest refugee crisis in the history of the western hemisphere. 609 00:33:27,384 --> 00:33:31,429 We're only after Syria worldwide, and we don't have a decade-long war. 610 00:33:31,513 --> 00:33:32,973 All we have is a dictatorship 611 00:33:33,056 --> 00:33:36,351 that through his policy has created hunger, inequality. 612 00:33:36,434 --> 00:33:40,939 This supposedly "socialist" dictatorship who really just targets the people. 613 00:33:41,022 --> 00:33:44,651 So that's one of the things I think is very dangerous about losing democracy, 614 00:33:44,734 --> 00:33:46,444 that there are real-life consequences 615 00:33:46,528 --> 00:33:50,865 and sometimes people sort of lose that insight in the day-to-day. 616 00:33:50,949 --> 00:33:55,370 There's a large swath that views the default setting on America, 617 00:33:55,453 --> 00:33:59,416 the factory setting as white, male and Christian. 618 00:33:59,499 --> 00:34:00,625 They're not oppressed, 619 00:34:00,709 --> 00:34:05,964 but any erosion of their absolute power feels like persecution. 620 00:34:06,047 --> 00:34:08,550 And you guys are experiencing real persecution. 621 00:34:08,633 --> 00:34:09,925 And how do you tell somebody, 622 00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:14,306 a persecution or a victimhood that they feel 623 00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:18,434 that's not based on anything foundational? 624 00:34:18,518 --> 00:34:20,394 That's the whole thing about irrational fear 625 00:34:20,478 --> 00:34:22,564 and that's why people, for example, in the Middle East 626 00:34:22,646 --> 00:34:26,693 would kind of choose the strong man because they feel threatened. 627 00:34:26,776 --> 00:34:28,570 We don't like to be like what's happening in Syria. 628 00:34:28,653 --> 00:34:31,155 We don't like to have this thing that's happening in Iraq. 629 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,699 So the alternative is so bloody. 630 00:34:32,782 --> 00:34:37,537 So here they will come to you about, like, issues that are very vague. 631 00:34:37,621 --> 00:34:41,583 Identity, your religion, patriotism, America, freedom. 632 00:34:41,666 --> 00:34:44,001 Things, like, big ideas that-- 633 00:34:44,085 --> 00:34:46,296 It's just like, these are all abstracts. 634 00:34:46,378 --> 00:34:48,298 The thing is you rile those people, 635 00:34:48,381 --> 00:34:50,675 making them think all the time that they are threatened, 636 00:34:50,759 --> 00:34:53,553 that their identity, whatever that means, is gonna be taken away from them. 637 00:34:53,637 --> 00:34:57,307 Their freedom, whatever the definition of that, is gonna be taken away from them. 638 00:34:57,390 --> 00:34:58,391 Right. 639 00:34:58,475 --> 00:35:00,685 When you put people under that kind of constant fear, 640 00:35:00,769 --> 00:35:03,021 people will always choose security over everything else. 641 00:35:03,104 --> 00:35:06,107 What's the cudgel that somebody like Maduro would use in Venezuela? 642 00:35:06,191 --> 00:35:10,820 The typical, you know, oligarchs, traitors. That's a type of, like, epithet. 643 00:35:10,904 --> 00:35:13,198 One thing about dictators, they do two things. 644 00:35:13,281 --> 00:35:16,201 They always have these colorful epithets about their opponents. 645 00:35:16,284 --> 00:35:18,662 Uh, you know, you see it here in the US as well. 646 00:35:18,745 --> 00:35:19,788 Sleepy Joe. 647 00:35:19,871 --> 00:35:22,165 -However you wanna characterize it. -[Stewart] Right. 648 00:35:22,249 --> 00:35:24,960 And another thing that is just very worrisome is that 649 00:35:25,043 --> 00:35:28,630 they have this really great way of telling people that, "I'm your avenger." 650 00:35:28,713 --> 00:35:32,509 Whether it's drain the swamp or it's going against corrupt individuals. 651 00:35:32,592 --> 00:35:33,885 And that's how Chávez got in power. 652 00:35:33,969 --> 00:35:36,263 And Maduro, right now his greatest thing is 653 00:35:36,346 --> 00:35:39,558 it's against the US, anti-imperialist, or whatever, 654 00:35:39,641 --> 00:35:41,393 but it's all BS at the end of the day. 655 00:35:41,476 --> 00:35:43,478 Right. And do you think at some point, 656 00:35:43,562 --> 00:35:49,859 their ability to wield that is being watched by all these other countries? 657 00:35:49,943 --> 00:35:56,866 Philippines is a test kitchen for so many other wannabe autocrats. 658 00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:58,535 Would you say that's true, Maria? 659 00:35:58,618 --> 00:36:03,957 So it is death by a thousand cuts of our identity, I think, more than anything. 660 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,127 And if-- What this has shown globally, 661 00:36:07,210 --> 00:36:12,257 is that the technology that has been allowed to manipulate us 662 00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:17,137 is actually showing how much more we have in common as human beings, 663 00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:20,682 because the very same technology in use in the United States 664 00:36:20,765 --> 00:36:24,102 is what is being used to manipulate us in the Philippines. 665 00:36:24,185 --> 00:36:25,729 And it's very simple, huh? 666 00:36:25,812 --> 00:36:30,901 You know, like, just one algorithmic choice of recommending friends of friends 667 00:36:30,984 --> 00:36:33,028 to grow your social media platform. 668 00:36:33,111 --> 00:36:37,616 In the Philippines, we watch Duterte, if you're pro-Duterte in 2016, 669 00:36:37,699 --> 00:36:39,367 you would move further right. 670 00:36:39,451 --> 00:36:42,579 So you can substitute Trump here. 671 00:36:42,662 --> 00:36:45,749 If you're anti-Duterte, you would move further left. 672 00:36:45,832 --> 00:36:50,587 That's 2016, 2017, 2018. You know, and the chasm grows. 673 00:36:50,670 --> 00:36:52,589 That's on societal level, 674 00:36:52,672 --> 00:36:57,677 but individual level, your beliefs, it's like, um, Inception. 675 00:36:57,761 --> 00:37:00,180 Leonardo DiCaprio's Inception, that movie, right? 676 00:37:00,263 --> 00:37:02,766 If you remember that? They go into the dreamworld-- 677 00:37:02,849 --> 00:37:05,143 I still don't understand it, Maria, 678 00:37:05,227 --> 00:37:07,604 so you're gonna have to go back and explain Inception to me 679 00:37:07,687 --> 00:37:10,232 'cause I've seen it, like, five times and as far as I'm concerned, 680 00:37:10,315 --> 00:37:12,859 it's just a movie about buildings that fold. 681 00:37:12,943 --> 00:37:14,819 -I don't know. -[audience laughs] 682 00:37:14,903 --> 00:37:19,157 -[chuckles] But you know how they-- -Here's the glimmer of hope. 683 00:37:19,241 --> 00:37:20,325 Go. 684 00:37:20,408 --> 00:37:25,789 If they're able to engineer something to a negative effect, 685 00:37:25,872 --> 00:37:28,750 then it has to be able to be reverse engineered. 686 00:37:28,833 --> 00:37:32,879 And that gets us, I think, to the final part of this, which is, 687 00:37:32,963 --> 00:37:37,592 what are the guardrails that you thought were the most vulnerable, 688 00:37:37,676 --> 00:37:42,472 and the ones that seemed most necessary to reinforce? 689 00:37:42,556 --> 00:37:45,475 Uh, here in America, it's a civil society. 690 00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:48,061 People who really believe in liberal values. 691 00:37:48,144 --> 00:37:52,566 The problem with people here who vote, usually Democratic or whatever, 692 00:37:52,649 --> 00:37:55,026 they are a little bit demotivated to go and vote. 693 00:37:55,110 --> 00:37:56,278 They think it's in the bag. 694 00:37:56,361 --> 00:37:58,697 They have to be sold 100% on their candidate. 695 00:37:58,780 --> 00:38:00,323 -We're complacent. -Yeah, very. 696 00:38:00,407 --> 00:38:04,202 But the thing, on the other side, they will go every single time. 697 00:38:04,286 --> 00:38:06,121 They don't care about who represents them. 698 00:38:06,204 --> 00:38:08,164 I think democracy dies with apathy. 699 00:38:08,248 --> 00:38:10,041 The active participation of citizens. 700 00:38:10,125 --> 00:38:11,918 In Venezuela, we were at our best 701 00:38:12,002 --> 00:38:15,338 when we had millions of people mobilized on the streets, demanding their rights. 702 00:38:15,422 --> 00:38:18,383 And I think the biggest challenge is to sustain that. 703 00:38:18,466 --> 00:38:20,969 You, Jon, you've had experiences with this in different causes, 704 00:38:21,052 --> 00:38:22,137 I remember your march, 705 00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:24,639 I think it was against insanity or something along those lines. 706 00:38:24,723 --> 00:38:25,724 Yeah, we won. 707 00:38:25,807 --> 00:38:27,517 -[chuckles] Well, for me-- -[Youssef laughs] 708 00:38:27,601 --> 00:38:30,020 -Everything's worked out pretty good. -It's a great example. 709 00:38:30,103 --> 00:38:33,481 In that single moment, you mobilized hundreds of thousands of people. 710 00:38:33,565 --> 00:38:34,608 -Right. -At the end of the day… 711 00:38:34,691 --> 00:38:37,277 -Yeah, to get high in a field. I mean… -Well, yeah. 712 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,279 But-- Exactly. So how do you sustain that 713 00:38:39,362 --> 00:38:43,116 so people understand that being present makes a difference, 714 00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:45,535 it actually creates an impact, when the other things-- 715 00:38:45,619 --> 00:38:48,496 It's energy at the local level. That's what I learned in the 9/11 fight. 716 00:38:48,580 --> 00:38:50,540 It's energy at the local level. 717 00:38:50,624 --> 00:38:52,751 Maria, I'm gonna give you the last word. 718 00:38:52,834 --> 00:38:56,838 Uh, you know, in your mind, how do you turn this thing around 719 00:38:56,922 --> 00:38:59,466 and what's the most important thing to protect? 720 00:39:00,050 --> 00:39:02,636 To revive democracy, right? 721 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,097 To fight this death by a thousand cuts of democracy, 722 00:39:06,181 --> 00:39:08,016 to pull the terrorists' line. 723 00:39:08,099 --> 00:39:11,019 We have three pillars, and this is active for us. 724 00:39:11,102 --> 00:39:14,272 Technology. Put guardrails around the technology. 725 00:39:14,356 --> 00:39:18,568 Please, please, please, you in the-- you have that power. 726 00:39:18,652 --> 00:39:21,154 The second is journalism. 727 00:39:21,238 --> 00:39:23,573 Support independent journalism, right? 728 00:39:23,657 --> 00:39:25,450 Fight for the facts. 729 00:39:25,533 --> 00:39:30,121 And third, community. Community is incredibly important. 730 00:39:30,205 --> 00:39:35,210 Um, the facts will help a community become civic engagement. 731 00:39:35,293 --> 00:39:38,922 This-- These are the lifeblood of democracy. 732 00:39:39,005 --> 00:39:41,216 So, that's what we're fighting for in the Philippines. 733 00:39:41,299 --> 00:39:44,302 Those are Rappler's three pillars, and we need them all. 734 00:39:44,386 --> 00:39:49,724 Community has helped us stay alive in this five-year, forever-long battle, 735 00:39:49,808 --> 00:39:52,894 and I hope to see the dawn, you know? 736 00:39:52,978 --> 00:39:54,938 I'm optimistic. 737 00:39:55,021 --> 00:39:59,109 Maria, you know, if there is anything that can be done 738 00:39:59,192 --> 00:40:02,821 for your cause and the personal cause of not having to go to jail, 739 00:40:02,904 --> 00:40:07,075 please let us know because it seems to me that sometimes 740 00:40:07,158 --> 00:40:12,372 when you shine a light on something, even a dictator doesn't want the hassle. 741 00:40:12,455 --> 00:40:15,834 And as we saw in your case and maybe yours, 742 00:40:15,917 --> 00:40:18,587 maybe you can't get everybody, but if you chip away at it, 743 00:40:18,670 --> 00:40:20,255 you can save a few more people. 744 00:40:20,881 --> 00:40:21,882 Uh, thank you-- 745 00:40:21,965 --> 00:40:24,801 That's exactly how we stay alive. Thank you. 746 00:40:24,885 --> 00:40:26,678 Thank you so much, Maria. 747 00:40:26,761 --> 00:40:29,347 Bassem, love you, baby. 748 00:40:29,431 --> 00:40:30,891 Francisco. 749 00:40:30,974 --> 00:40:33,393 We'll be right back after this. Thank you. 750 00:40:33,476 --> 00:40:35,896 -[audience cheers, applauds] -Uh, boy, that was great. 751 00:40:52,787 --> 00:40:53,997 [audience laughing] 752 00:41:03,131 --> 00:41:05,759 [imitates bass playing] 753 00:41:07,052 --> 00:41:08,678 Thank you so much for tuning in. 754 00:41:08,762 --> 00:41:13,600 Uh, coming up next, the show where, uh, no one can tell Jason Momoa's hot. 755 00:41:13,683 --> 00:41:16,102 They're blind, and he's hot, but no one knows, 756 00:41:16,186 --> 00:41:18,438 except one guy, and then they throw spears. 757 00:41:18,521 --> 00:41:20,232 [audience laughs] 758 00:41:20,315 --> 00:41:22,400 I love it. 759 00:41:22,484 --> 00:41:26,196 To support tonight's guests and their fight to preserve democracies, 760 00:41:26,279 --> 00:41:28,865 please check out these resources. 761 00:41:28,949 --> 00:41:32,619 And if you wanna continue this conversation, check out our podcast. 762 00:41:32,702 --> 00:41:36,122 It's, uh, sort of like if someone read you a blog. 763 00:41:36,206 --> 00:41:37,791 That's our kind of podcast. 764 00:41:37,874 --> 00:41:39,584 We'll see you next time. Thanks. 765 00:41:47,008 --> 00:41:49,469 Against my better judgment, I've been following the rules 766 00:41:49,553 --> 00:41:52,055 the government says, "Put on a mask," I got called a sheep in the street. 767 00:41:52,138 --> 00:41:55,892 Do you take off to show you are an independent, free American 768 00:41:55,976 --> 00:41:56,977 -or do you keep it on? -No. 769 00:41:57,060 --> 00:41:59,854 This is in March of 2020. I'm terrified of the virus. 770 00:41:59,938 --> 00:42:03,608 It's so interesting seeing people who are having, like, these major fights 771 00:42:03,692 --> 00:42:06,361 on planes, like, on flights, 772 00:42:06,444 --> 00:42:08,947 but 30 minutes before, if you just rewind, 773 00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:12,576 how many freedoms you actually had to give up just to get on a plane. 774 00:42:12,659 --> 00:42:16,204 You have to perform a voluntary robbery on yourself 775 00:42:16,288 --> 00:42:18,415 -just to get on the plane. -That! That! 776 00:42:18,498 --> 00:42:19,833 You have to rob yourself. 777 00:42:19,916 --> 00:42:23,920 They have a scan of your inner organs and you're like, "Go for it." 778 00:42:24,004 --> 00:42:26,715 "I'm not wearing a mask 'cause of freedom 779 00:42:26,798 --> 00:42:28,383 and, yes, it is three ounces." 780 00:42:28,466 --> 00:42:30,760 [all laughing]