1 00:00:40,245 --> 00:00:43,040 [audience cheering, applauding] 2 00:00:47,182 --> 00:00:47,979 Boom! 3 00:00:48,790 --> 00:00:50,619 Oh. Should I sit up? 4 00:00:51,418 --> 00:00:52,324 Sit up tall. 5 00:00:53,287 --> 00:00:54,227 Hello! 6 00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:56,827 I'm gonna sit on my jacket. 7 00:00:56,962 --> 00:00:57,995 Thank you. 8 00:00:58,130 --> 00:01:00,468 Please! Sit, sit, sit! 9 00:01:00,603 --> 00:01:01,968 Welcome back! 10 00:01:02,103 --> 00:01:04,729 It is season two of The Problem. 11 00:01:04,865 --> 00:01:07,197 This is the new variant of the show. 12 00:01:07,332 --> 00:01:10,776 The King Charles edition. I'm wearing a blazer. 13 00:01:10,911 --> 00:01:12,542 [high-pitched] Hello. 14 00:01:14,444 --> 00:01:15,944 [normal] Since we've been gone, 15 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:18,516 and obviously not to suggest that correlation equals causation, 16 00:01:18,651 --> 00:01:22,585 but the world has gone into a bit of a tailspin. 17 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,123 War on reality, war on science, war on children. 18 00:01:27,259 --> 00:01:29,592 Reality no longer has meaning. 19 00:01:29,728 --> 00:01:32,791 The goal here is insidious. It's about destruction. 20 00:01:32,927 --> 00:01:34,625 The nuclear family is under attack. 21 00:01:34,761 --> 00:01:36,066 You're destroying the culture. 22 00:01:36,202 --> 00:01:37,897 [hushed voice] I'm scared. 23 00:01:39,704 --> 00:01:41,336 [normal] What the fuck are they talking about? 24 00:01:41,472 --> 00:01:43,401 What are-- Polio? Nuclear war? 25 00:01:43,536 --> 00:01:45,811 Black mermaids? 26 00:01:45,946 --> 00:01:51,548 A recent software update for Apple iPhones includes a pregnant man emoji, 27 00:01:51,684 --> 00:01:54,382 as well as a number of other gender-neutral cartoons. 28 00:01:54,517 --> 00:01:57,114 My God, what has Satan wrought? 29 00:01:58,587 --> 00:02:01,124 Ah, yes, the gender wars. 30 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:02,592 We lost a lot of good men... 31 00:02:03,992 --> 00:02:06,964 but, apparently, gained a lot of good men, 32 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:08,130 so I think it's a wash. 33 00:02:08,265 --> 00:02:10,936 [audience laughs] 34 00:02:11,071 --> 00:02:15,940 We are a country living under the tyranny of the new pronoun police. 35 00:02:16,076 --> 00:02:18,073 You got your "she/hers," 36 00:02:18,208 --> 00:02:19,977 your "he/hims," 37 00:02:20,112 --> 00:02:22,639 your "they/thems." 38 00:02:22,774 --> 00:02:24,416 Am I missing anybody? 39 00:02:24,552 --> 00:02:27,485 Well, I'm Ted Cruz, and my pronoun is "kiss my ass." 40 00:02:29,487 --> 00:02:32,919 Oh, so you got your "anal/inguses." 41 00:02:34,687 --> 00:02:37,060 Your "he/rim." 42 00:02:37,196 --> 00:02:39,530 [audience laughing] 43 00:02:41,834 --> 00:02:47,206 We are in a new dawn of gender and sex complexity, 44 00:02:47,341 --> 00:02:51,872 where those who don't fit into a simple binary are meant to be seen with humanity. 45 00:02:53,007 --> 00:02:54,414 It wasn't always like this, people. 46 00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:58,342 As recently as, let's say, the 1990s, early 2000s, 47 00:02:58,478 --> 00:03:01,946 people were making shitty, reductive jokes about the subject. 48 00:03:02,081 --> 00:03:04,984 [chuckles] [audience laughing] 49 00:03:07,821 --> 00:03:09,527 What can I say? The joke rhymed. 50 00:03:11,324 --> 00:03:14,092 Shitty and reductive jokes are kind of my brand. 51 00:03:15,367 --> 00:03:17,432 But as we know from history, 52 00:03:17,567 --> 00:03:22,633 any moment of progressive visibility will be met with a vicious backlash. 53 00:03:22,768 --> 00:03:23,937 There are two genders. 54 00:03:24,073 --> 00:03:25,406 There are two genders, and everyone knows it. 55 00:03:25,541 --> 00:03:27,440 Ain't but two genders! 56 00:03:27,576 --> 00:03:29,547 [audience laughing] 57 00:03:32,246 --> 00:03:34,120 That last guy sounded like it's an emergency 58 00:03:34,255 --> 00:03:36,686 and we're running out of genders. 59 00:03:36,821 --> 00:03:40,460 [shouting] Everyone! There ain't but two genders! 60 00:03:40,595 --> 00:03:42,362 I don't wanna have to start rationing genders. 61 00:03:43,361 --> 00:03:44,959 The point is clear. 62 00:03:45,094 --> 00:03:47,968 The human race is defined by a simple binary, 63 00:03:48,103 --> 00:03:50,367 a black-and-white understanding. 64 00:03:50,502 --> 00:03:54,008 There are men and there are women. 65 00:03:54,143 --> 00:03:56,403 And never the twain shall meet. 66 00:03:56,539 --> 00:03:57,744 Trump is an alpha male. 67 00:03:57,879 --> 00:03:59,237 Well, okay. Yes. 68 00:03:59,372 --> 00:04:04,313 There are obviously men who are more man than other men. 69 00:04:04,449 --> 00:04:05,785 But that's an aberration. 70 00:04:05,921 --> 00:04:06,949 Beta, gamma... 71 00:04:07,085 --> 00:04:08,954 Okay. 72 00:04:09,089 --> 00:04:11,418 There's an entire Greek alphabet, a continuum of masculinity, 73 00:04:11,554 --> 00:04:13,420 but that doesn't mean-- 74 00:04:13,555 --> 00:04:14,653 -Cuck. -Pajama boy. 75 00:04:14,788 --> 00:04:16,324 -Soy boy. -Girlie man. 76 00:04:16,460 --> 00:04:18,893 [audience laughing] 77 00:04:24,164 --> 00:04:26,263 I hope the children are out of the room. 78 00:04:28,242 --> 00:04:32,979 Clearly, masculinity appears to be on a dimmer, not an on-off switch. 79 00:04:33,115 --> 00:04:34,375 But ladies are different. 80 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:35,643 I was a big tomboy. 81 00:04:35,778 --> 00:04:37,478 These purple-haired, angry freaks. 82 00:04:37,614 --> 00:04:39,142 -Rabid feminist. -Cat lady. 83 00:04:39,278 --> 00:04:41,619 -High-rolling bimbos. -Pretty girlie girl. 84 00:04:45,156 --> 00:04:47,192 My God. 85 00:04:47,327 --> 00:04:53,031 What a cruise line buffet of the gradients in American gender expression. 86 00:04:53,166 --> 00:04:58,404 Turns out there's a lot of nonbinary shit happening between the binaries. 87 00:04:58,539 --> 00:05:00,841 But that hasn't stopped the traditionalists 88 00:05:00,976 --> 00:05:05,011 from deploying their newest weapon in the culture war arsenal, 89 00:05:05,147 --> 00:05:07,213 the obvious gotcha question. 90 00:05:07,349 --> 00:05:10,780 Real basic question. What is a woman? 91 00:05:10,915 --> 00:05:14,314 Can you provide a definition for the word "woman"? 92 00:05:14,449 --> 00:05:17,684 For all of recorded history, people have known what a woman is. 93 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:20,988 Yes! All of recorded history! 94 00:05:21,755 --> 00:05:23,227 It was simple! 95 00:05:23,362 --> 00:05:24,861 Until like a year ago, 96 00:05:24,997 --> 00:05:27,096 the answer to "what is a woman" has always been the same. 97 00:05:27,231 --> 00:05:28,264 It's, uh, 98 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,833 "A woman is a deformity 99 00:05:29,968 --> 00:05:32,565 that occurred in the ordinary course of nature." 100 00:05:32,701 --> 00:05:36,106 [audience laughing] 101 00:05:36,242 --> 00:05:40,213 I'm sorry. That's-- That's Aristotle. I apologize. That's-- 102 00:05:40,348 --> 00:05:42,312 I'm sorry. That's not what I meant. 103 00:05:42,448 --> 00:05:47,248 I meant, "A woman is a person who has no legal existence once married." 104 00:05:47,384 --> 00:05:51,657 That's-- I'm sorry. That's-- That's early American coverture law. 105 00:05:51,792 --> 00:05:54,924 That's-- That's not right. No. The-- [stammers] 106 00:05:55,059 --> 00:05:57,854 Throughout history. It's not a gotcha question. 107 00:05:57,990 --> 00:06:00,131 "A woman is 30 shekels." 108 00:06:00,266 --> 00:06:01,627 That's-- I'm sorry. 109 00:06:01,763 --> 00:06:03,729 [audience laughing] 110 00:06:03,865 --> 00:06:05,638 I'm sorry, that's Leviticus. 111 00:06:05,774 --> 00:06:09,734 Uh, unless she's whorish, then a woman is a loaf of bread. 112 00:06:09,869 --> 00:06:11,511 That's Proverbs. Yes. 113 00:06:13,407 --> 00:06:16,379 It turns out, for most of recorded history, 114 00:06:16,515 --> 00:06:22,380 women were just defined by whatever men had in their wallet that day. 115 00:06:22,515 --> 00:06:26,251 Perhaps it takes a woman to answer this obvious question 116 00:06:26,386 --> 00:06:29,286 that progressives continue to dance around. 117 00:06:29,421 --> 00:06:32,097 I'm gonna tell you right now what is a woman. 118 00:06:32,233 --> 00:06:34,161 This is an easy answer. 119 00:06:34,297 --> 00:06:38,395 We are a creation of God. We came from Adam's rib. 120 00:06:40,269 --> 00:06:42,806 All right. Well, I-- I think I still have some questions. 121 00:06:42,942 --> 00:06:45,644 Uh, perhaps we're getting caught in a bit of a trap, 122 00:06:45,780 --> 00:06:49,314 in the confusion of gender identity and sex, 123 00:06:49,449 --> 00:06:50,879 when it comes to defining women. 124 00:06:51,014 --> 00:06:53,652 Perhaps if we focus on the science, 125 00:06:53,787 --> 00:06:57,088 the black-and-white nature becomes clearer. 126 00:06:57,223 --> 00:06:58,492 That's simple. 127 00:06:58,627 --> 00:07:00,928 A woman is a human being with two X chromosomes. 128 00:07:01,063 --> 00:07:02,018 Ask any geneticist. 129 00:07:02,154 --> 00:07:04,826 Damn it, he got me again! 130 00:07:04,962 --> 00:07:06,761 [laughing] I don't know any geneticists. 131 00:07:06,897 --> 00:07:08,166 Where am I gonna find a geneticist? 132 00:07:08,302 --> 00:07:09,768 I can't find it. It's-- 133 00:07:09,903 --> 00:07:11,769 There's no such thing. It's-- Geneticist here. 134 00:07:13,669 --> 00:07:14,635 Are you a geneticist? 135 00:07:14,771 --> 00:07:16,576 -I am. -And you're prelit? 136 00:07:17,409 --> 00:07:20,509 [audience laughs] 137 00:07:20,645 --> 00:07:22,747 What-- What are the chances? 138 00:07:24,613 --> 00:07:28,680 So, most women have two X chromosomes. Most men have an X and a Y. 139 00:07:28,816 --> 00:07:33,890 But you can have one X, three Xs, XXY, XYY and other combinations too. 140 00:07:34,025 --> 00:07:36,058 And all of what we're talking about... Yeah. 141 00:07:36,193 --> 00:07:39,324 ...is related to but distinct from the idea of gender, 142 00:07:39,459 --> 00:07:41,699 which reflects, you know, one's lived experiences, 143 00:07:41,834 --> 00:07:44,137 their identity, even sociocultural factors. 144 00:07:44,273 --> 00:07:45,629 I don't wanna interrupt you, 145 00:07:45,765 --> 00:07:48,107 but I am so close to taking your lunch money right now. 146 00:07:48,243 --> 00:07:50,434 [audience laughing] 147 00:07:52,009 --> 00:07:53,614 [Bigdeli] I have a fun fact for you, Jon. 148 00:07:53,749 --> 00:07:56,341 Uh, among men of a certain age, about a third of them, 149 00:07:56,477 --> 00:07:58,876 uh, we can actually detect that some of their cells, 150 00:07:59,011 --> 00:08:01,918 some circulating white blood cells have actually lost their Y chromosome. 151 00:08:07,387 --> 00:08:08,886 You're directing that at me, aren't you? 152 00:08:09,022 --> 00:08:10,261 You're directing that-- 153 00:08:10,396 --> 00:08:12,491 All right, so, fine, 154 00:08:12,627 --> 00:08:17,065 the geneticist thinks that sex is not a straight binary. 155 00:08:18,764 --> 00:08:22,035 But is there anybody else really qualified to speak on this? 156 00:08:22,171 --> 00:08:23,671 My wife's a doctor. My wife is a doctor. 157 00:08:23,807 --> 00:08:25,072 My wife, who is a doctor-- 158 00:08:25,208 --> 00:08:26,976 Fortunately, I know a doctor, who is my wife. 159 00:08:29,678 --> 00:08:30,843 Yes, you there. 160 00:08:30,978 --> 00:08:32,785 Boy in the high chair. 161 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,852 Okay, this is undisputed. There are two sexes. 162 00:08:35,988 --> 00:08:37,557 There are not nine. There are not 11. 163 00:08:37,692 --> 00:08:39,616 And hopefully the next thing he says 164 00:08:39,751 --> 00:08:42,960 doesn't completely undercut his entire point. 165 00:08:43,095 --> 00:08:45,194 If you have a Y chromosome, then you are typically male. 166 00:08:45,329 --> 00:08:46,759 People without a Y chromosome are typically female. 167 00:08:46,894 --> 00:08:50,600 Right! Typically! 168 00:08:50,735 --> 00:08:53,134 That's the whole fucking point! 169 00:08:54,534 --> 00:08:56,870 When things are undisputed and binary, 170 00:08:57,005 --> 00:08:59,445 there are no "typicallies." 171 00:08:59,580 --> 00:09:04,014 One plus one equals two, typically. 172 00:09:04,149 --> 00:09:07,544 The Earth revolves around the sun in most cases. 173 00:09:08,887 --> 00:09:11,920 There exists an area in sex and gender 174 00:09:12,056 --> 00:09:15,286 that, by your own admission, isn't binary. 175 00:09:15,421 --> 00:09:19,299 Even you, Dr. Quinn, Medicine Husband, 176 00:09:19,434 --> 00:09:23,730 have trouble explaining it. 177 00:09:23,865 --> 00:09:25,233 In nearly all cases, 178 00:09:25,368 --> 00:09:27,438 I can tell the difference between a male and a female... 179 00:09:27,574 --> 00:09:31,369 99.8%, 99.9% of cases, you absolutely can gender somebody based on... 180 00:09:31,505 --> 00:09:33,374 By the way, in most cases of intersex, 181 00:09:33,509 --> 00:09:35,506 those people still manifest as either a male or a female... 182 00:09:35,641 --> 00:09:37,113 Here's the deal. For all of human history, 183 00:09:37,249 --> 00:09:39,346 there was an objective standard between male and female... 184 00:09:39,482 --> 00:09:41,687 For nearly all of human history, out of partial ignorance, 185 00:09:41,822 --> 00:09:43,851 and partially because this is usually true, 186 00:09:43,987 --> 00:09:46,352 it was out of genetic-- it was out of simply looking at people's genitals. 187 00:09:47,987 --> 00:09:49,154 Yes, so simple. 188 00:09:49,290 --> 00:09:51,330 Nearly all, in most cases, usually, 189 00:09:51,466 --> 00:09:53,027 I before E except after C, 190 00:09:53,163 --> 00:09:55,126 show me your dick so I know where you pee. 191 00:09:55,261 --> 00:09:59,600 [audience laughing, applauding] 192 00:09:59,735 --> 00:10:00,971 And thus... 193 00:10:02,808 --> 00:10:05,835 "The Problem with Gender and Sex." 194 00:10:05,971 --> 00:10:07,470 Or both. 195 00:10:07,606 --> 00:10:10,240 It turns out none of this shit is simple. 196 00:10:10,375 --> 00:10:12,043 We didn't just ask a geneticist. 197 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:15,653 We asked endocrinologists and a few psychiatrists and gynecologists. 198 00:10:15,788 --> 00:10:17,758 And they all said the same thing. 199 00:10:17,893 --> 00:10:20,453 Intersex, trans, nonbinary and all the other gradations 200 00:10:20,588 --> 00:10:24,595 on the gender-future-sex- love-sounds continuum 201 00:10:24,730 --> 00:10:27,962 are normal human variation. 202 00:10:28,098 --> 00:10:30,866 And whatever discomfort we may feel 203 00:10:31,001 --> 00:10:33,370 in the changing norms of reality, 204 00:10:33,505 --> 00:10:35,505 myself included, 205 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:41,181 it is no match for the discomfort and fear felt by those seeking acceptance. 206 00:10:41,316 --> 00:10:43,740 Yet, for some reason, 207 00:10:43,875 --> 00:10:50,517 anti-trans legislation increased over 800% since 2018. 208 00:10:50,653 --> 00:10:53,023 800%. 209 00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:57,090 What could justify this unprecedented urgency? 210 00:10:57,225 --> 00:10:58,930 Did trans people storm the Capitol? 211 00:11:00,894 --> 00:11:04,394 Did they steal classified nuclear intel from the White House 212 00:11:04,530 --> 00:11:06,938 and keep it in a humidor in Florida? 213 00:11:09,641 --> 00:11:11,239 What is the threat? 214 00:11:11,375 --> 00:11:15,415 We need to end the assault on women's sports 215 00:11:15,550 --> 00:11:18,015 by the radical gender-left. 216 00:11:20,386 --> 00:11:22,350 Come on. 217 00:11:22,485 --> 00:11:26,358 Not every one of those words could be equally important. 218 00:11:26,493 --> 00:11:29,261 [audience laughs] 219 00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:32,260 And the same note. 220 00:11:32,395 --> 00:11:34,832 It's the end of women's sports. It's just the end. 221 00:11:34,967 --> 00:11:37,996 Women's sports as we know it will die. 222 00:11:38,131 --> 00:11:42,204 [audience laughs] 223 00:11:42,339 --> 00:11:45,073 And I assume that when they die, for tax reasons, 224 00:11:45,208 --> 00:11:47,612 you will bury them on your golf course. 225 00:11:47,747 --> 00:11:49,046 [audience laughing, applauding] 226 00:11:49,181 --> 00:11:55,422 Now, there have been 77 anti-trans sports bills 227 00:11:55,557 --> 00:11:58,047 introduced this year alone. 228 00:11:58,183 --> 00:12:01,486 There have been more anti-trans sports bills introduced this year 229 00:12:01,621 --> 00:12:04,125 than trans people dominating sports 230 00:12:04,261 --> 00:12:06,563 in the history of women's sports. 231 00:12:06,699 --> 00:12:09,292 And by the by, I don't know if you're familiar with the Olympics, 232 00:12:09,427 --> 00:12:12,066 but they've been trying to answer this incredibly simple question 233 00:12:12,201 --> 00:12:14,806 of "what is a woman" for 80 years. 234 00:12:14,942 --> 00:12:16,766 And here's how some of that went. 235 00:12:16,902 --> 00:12:19,745 In 1966, a Polish sprinter was deemed a woman 236 00:12:19,881 --> 00:12:23,077 via a controversial anatomy test. 237 00:12:23,212 --> 00:12:25,076 I think you know what that means. 238 00:12:25,212 --> 00:12:31,449 In 1967, a chromosome test done on this athlete deemed her not to be a woman. 239 00:12:31,585 --> 00:12:34,894 And, of course, in 1968, she had a baby. 240 00:12:36,858 --> 00:12:37,996 A baby! 241 00:12:39,695 --> 00:12:42,863 And then obviously in 1969, she had the summer of her life. 242 00:12:42,998 --> 00:12:44,437 [audience laughs] 243 00:12:44,573 --> 00:12:45,603 [lip-synching "Summer of '69"] 244 00:12:45,739 --> 00:12:47,938 It all boils down to this. 245 00:12:48,074 --> 00:12:51,876 Clearly, just because you strongly believe 246 00:12:52,011 --> 00:12:54,607 that something is simple and undeniable 247 00:12:54,742 --> 00:12:57,717 doesn't mean that that belief will be backed up 248 00:12:57,853 --> 00:13:00,344 by the correlating and corresponding data. 249 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,549 God, that's not pithy enough-- 250 00:13:02,684 --> 00:13:06,824 What-- If only there was a way to monetize that thought 251 00:13:06,959 --> 00:13:09,156 in the most cynical way possible. 252 00:13:09,292 --> 00:13:10,394 Facts don't care about your feelings. 253 00:13:10,529 --> 00:13:11,898 Nailed it! 254 00:13:13,094 --> 00:13:14,358 Take a look at this. 255 00:13:14,493 --> 00:13:15,968 [audience applauding, cheering] 256 00:13:20,507 --> 00:13:21,768 Let's all pray. 257 00:13:21,904 --> 00:13:22,973 Dear God... 258 00:13:23,109 --> 00:13:24,436 -...I know you... -...make no mistakes... 259 00:13:24,572 --> 00:13:26,472 -...but these... -...transgender people-- 260 00:13:26,608 --> 00:13:28,207 What is that about? Sincere question. 261 00:13:28,342 --> 00:13:30,280 And no disrespect to anybody... 262 00:13:30,415 --> 00:13:33,610 ...but I've got a message for you that I must preach. 263 00:13:33,745 --> 00:13:35,447 This country was founded on the idea... 264 00:13:35,583 --> 00:13:38,055 ...a boy has a penis, a girl has a vagina. 265 00:13:38,190 --> 00:13:41,217 In the name of Jesus. Oh, thank you, Jesus. 266 00:13:41,352 --> 00:13:43,253 -I mean, I don't have a problem with... -...gay people. 267 00:13:43,388 --> 00:13:46,089 -I have gay friends. -I don't know anybody that doesn't have a gay friend. 268 00:13:46,225 --> 00:13:49,361 -But these... -...transgender, intersex, nonbinary... 269 00:13:49,496 --> 00:13:51,037 -...perverts-- -No offense. 270 00:13:51,173 --> 00:13:53,537 -They're killing... -...girls' and women's sports. 271 00:13:53,672 --> 00:13:55,006 [crowd boos] 272 00:13:55,141 --> 00:13:57,901 -We need to save... -...women's swim team... 273 00:13:58,037 --> 00:14:00,373 -...archery... -...women's volleyball, women's tennis. 274 00:14:00,508 --> 00:14:03,949 -Even though... -...women's sports... 275 00:14:04,084 --> 00:14:05,611 -...not as cool as... -...the men's sports. 276 00:14:05,747 --> 00:14:08,344 Angelic reinforcement, angelic reinforcement. 277 00:14:08,479 --> 00:14:10,286 [speaking in tongues] 278 00:14:10,421 --> 00:14:12,585 We don't have a problem with transgender people. 279 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,057 -But, Lord, we ask you... -...please... 280 00:14:14,193 --> 00:14:15,820 -...give us the power... -...to check... 281 00:14:15,955 --> 00:14:17,826 ...the exact size and shape of their genitals. 282 00:14:17,961 --> 00:14:19,063 Just a little peek. 283 00:14:19,199 --> 00:14:22,226 -In Jesus's name, we pray. -Hallelujah! 284 00:14:22,361 --> 00:14:25,066 -Amen. -[all] Amen. 285 00:14:25,201 --> 00:14:27,501 [audience laughing, applauding] 286 00:14:29,234 --> 00:14:33,541 I've known I was trans from, um, my earliest memories. 287 00:14:33,676 --> 00:14:36,874 Gender dysphoria is a disconnect from your mind and body. 288 00:14:37,009 --> 00:14:40,553 So, what I could be feeling up here isn't the same thing 289 00:14:40,689 --> 00:14:43,182 I see myself in the mirror as. 290 00:14:43,318 --> 00:14:45,823 But gender-affirming care, 291 00:14:45,959 --> 00:14:49,489 it helps us see what we feel. 292 00:14:49,624 --> 00:14:52,159 It took me, I wanna say, almost eight months 293 00:14:52,295 --> 00:14:54,294 of sending in authorizations, 294 00:14:54,430 --> 00:14:55,992 getting medical necessity documents, 295 00:14:56,127 --> 00:14:58,070 for example, going to counseling, going to therapy, 296 00:14:58,205 --> 00:15:00,003 having all of the documentation lined up, 297 00:15:00,139 --> 00:15:01,841 um, before they actually approved it. 298 00:15:01,977 --> 00:15:03,800 So, at that point, I was just so relieved. 299 00:15:03,936 --> 00:15:08,081 It finally made me feel, like, home in my body. 300 00:15:08,216 --> 00:15:11,147 We're talking about allowing people the ability 301 00:15:11,283 --> 00:15:13,686 to live in their own authenticity. 302 00:15:13,822 --> 00:15:18,288 Legislators are trying to ban doctors from providing gender-affirming care. 303 00:15:18,423 --> 00:15:21,489 Our state representatives claim to be pro-life, 304 00:15:21,625 --> 00:15:23,591 but they want to play with children's lives. 305 00:15:23,726 --> 00:15:28,732 This is health care, and it shouldn't be a game. 306 00:15:28,867 --> 00:15:31,828 [audience applauding] 307 00:15:31,963 --> 00:15:36,771 All right. So, gender-affirming care. 308 00:15:36,907 --> 00:15:39,008 There's... [stammers] ...obviously very strong feelings about it. 309 00:15:39,143 --> 00:15:40,743 But what is the deal of it? 310 00:15:40,878 --> 00:15:43,345 We've assembled a panel that can tell us what it is, what it's not, 311 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,017 why people are trying to block access to it 312 00:15:45,152 --> 00:15:46,278 and why they're trying to get access. 313 00:15:46,414 --> 00:15:47,915 Keisha Michaels is with us. 314 00:15:48,051 --> 00:15:50,721 She is the mother of a transgender teenager from Maryland. 315 00:15:50,856 --> 00:15:53,817 Debi Jackson, mother of a transgender teenager from Missouri. 316 00:15:53,953 --> 00:15:56,159 Chase Strangio, a lawyer with the ACLU 317 00:15:56,295 --> 00:15:57,989 who's argued in front of the Supreme Court. 318 00:15:58,124 --> 00:16:01,167 And Dr. Joshua Safer, endocrinologist at Mount Sinai 319 00:16:01,303 --> 00:16:03,559 and an author of the Endocrine Society's guidelines 320 00:16:03,695 --> 00:16:05,565 for gender-affirming care. 321 00:16:05,701 --> 00:16:08,038 Welcome, everybody. Thank you for joining us. 322 00:16:08,174 --> 00:16:10,301 All right. [audience applauding] 323 00:16:10,437 --> 00:16:14,403 [stammers] I want to go right at it and-- and give you a sense of, you know, 324 00:16:14,539 --> 00:16:19,145 it's a real, uh, hot-button issue in this country right now, 325 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:20,780 a culture war issue. 326 00:16:20,915 --> 00:16:22,985 The critics are saying that gender-affirming care 327 00:16:23,121 --> 00:16:25,323 is nothing more than, uh, 328 00:16:25,458 --> 00:16:29,292 woke doctors and woke parents and activists, uh, 329 00:16:29,428 --> 00:16:33,132 manipulating confused children into mutilations 330 00:16:33,267 --> 00:16:36,867 and life-altering, uh, experimental drug therapies. 331 00:16:37,003 --> 00:16:40,137 Now, you both have children. 332 00:16:40,272 --> 00:16:44,704 What's your experience been with this? 333 00:16:44,839 --> 00:16:46,537 Well, it's interesting that folks might say 334 00:16:46,672 --> 00:16:48,005 that these are woke parents 335 00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:50,514 'cause my husband and I weren't really woke about this. 336 00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:53,417 [laughs] We had a child who was telling us that they-- 337 00:16:53,552 --> 00:16:55,746 that, you know, she's been a girl her whole life, 338 00:16:55,882 --> 00:16:57,750 and we were not really listening. 339 00:16:57,885 --> 00:16:59,717 -I'm not sure how woke we were. -Mm-hmm. Right. 340 00:16:59,853 --> 00:17:01,093 I kind of wish we were more woke. 341 00:17:01,228 --> 00:17:03,556 I wish we had been able to hear her sooner. 342 00:17:03,692 --> 00:17:05,793 Um, took us a few years to really listen 343 00:17:05,928 --> 00:17:09,030 and appreciate that she was telling us who she was. 344 00:17:09,165 --> 00:17:14,105 Um, and when we did, she-- it was-- she was like a new child. 345 00:17:14,241 --> 00:17:17,603 She just literally lit up, woke up. 346 00:17:17,739 --> 00:17:20,236 She woke up when we supported her. 347 00:17:20,372 --> 00:17:21,444 We said, 348 00:17:21,579 --> 00:17:23,413 "We recognize that this is who you are, 349 00:17:23,548 --> 00:17:25,778 and we're gonna support you in our house. 350 00:17:25,913 --> 00:17:27,845 And we're gonna support you in your life." 351 00:17:27,981 --> 00:17:31,547 -Wow. -And when that happened, she's like, 352 00:17:31,682 --> 00:17:33,688 "This is amazing." 353 00:17:33,823 --> 00:17:36,028 She really didn't have words for it as a ten-year-old. 354 00:17:36,164 --> 00:17:38,224 She'd been telling us since she was three. 355 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,060 And since that time, 356 00:17:40,195 --> 00:17:44,368 what we deal with now is a child who is now almost going to college. 357 00:17:44,503 --> 00:17:45,798 -[Stewart] Right. -She's in high school. 358 00:17:45,933 --> 00:17:48,037 And I told someone the other day, I said, 359 00:17:48,173 --> 00:17:50,735 "You know, her being trans is the least interesting thing about her." 360 00:17:50,871 --> 00:17:52,573 Right. Was this your experience as well? 361 00:17:52,708 --> 00:17:54,577 Was it-- Was it something that shocked you? 362 00:17:54,712 --> 00:17:57,748 Was it something that was difficult for you to accept? 363 00:17:57,884 --> 00:18:02,247 Uh, yes. It was completely out of my realm of understanding. 364 00:18:02,382 --> 00:18:08,125 I was very conservative, evangelical, you know, Southern Baptist, GOP. 365 00:18:08,261 --> 00:18:11,494 But at the age of four, Avery said, 366 00:18:11,629 --> 00:18:14,162 "Mom, you think that I'm a boy, but I'm a girl. 367 00:18:14,297 --> 00:18:15,461 I'm a girl on the inside," 368 00:18:15,596 --> 00:18:18,931 and very directly told us. Um-- 369 00:18:19,066 --> 00:18:21,274 [clicks tongue] We had no idea what that meant. 370 00:18:21,409 --> 00:18:23,771 Uh, again, this-- it was out of our thinking. 371 00:18:23,907 --> 00:18:26,405 We thought maybe we have a gay boy who's confused. 372 00:18:26,540 --> 00:18:27,641 We thought the same thing. 373 00:18:27,777 --> 00:18:29,441 -We went to ask questions. -[chuckles] 374 00:18:29,577 --> 00:18:30,911 We talked to doctors. We-- 375 00:18:31,047 --> 00:18:34,345 We went to endocrinologists just to check the XX, XYs, 376 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:35,913 all the things. 377 00:18:36,048 --> 00:18:38,849 Um, and we had to come to understand 378 00:18:38,985 --> 00:18:40,789 that our child knew who they were. 379 00:18:40,925 --> 00:18:44,759 And, mind you, they're 15 now. This was more than a decade ago. 380 00:18:44,894 --> 00:18:46,529 [Stewart] Right. They weren't influenced by TikTok. 381 00:18:46,665 --> 00:18:48,861 -They weren't on Facebook. -[Michaels laughs] 382 00:18:48,996 --> 00:18:50,961 Um, at four-- So you're saying this is YouTube. 383 00:18:51,096 --> 00:18:52,964 -Yeah, clearly. Clearly. -[audience laughing] 384 00:18:53,099 --> 00:18:55,039 -Maybe-- Maybe a Myspace page... -[all laughing] 385 00:18:55,175 --> 00:18:56,669 Sure. ...they stumbled across. 386 00:18:56,805 --> 00:18:59,074 You're saying that Friendster... Yeah. 387 00:18:59,210 --> 00:19:02,215 Yes, exactly. Yeah. 388 00:19:02,350 --> 00:19:04,578 Now, okay, so you live in a conservative community. 389 00:19:04,713 --> 00:19:08,751 Now, generally that is where the energy 390 00:19:08,887 --> 00:19:12,886 for the push against gender-affirming care is coming from. 391 00:19:13,021 --> 00:19:15,886 The people in your life, knowing what you went through, 392 00:19:16,021 --> 00:19:18,197 knowing what your child went through, 393 00:19:18,333 --> 00:19:21,399 did that dent their belief system in any way? 394 00:19:22,498 --> 00:19:24,767 I wish I could say it did. 395 00:19:24,903 --> 00:19:28,068 Um, we were the most conservative out of all the families 396 00:19:28,203 --> 00:19:31,410 in our, uh, friend group with kids at preschool and everything. 397 00:19:31,545 --> 00:19:34,872 But when we said, "This is who our child is," 398 00:19:35,007 --> 00:19:37,380 um, we lost our-- all of our friends. 399 00:19:37,516 --> 00:19:41,078 We really had to rebuild from the ground up 400 00:19:41,213 --> 00:19:44,017 because we lost our entire support system. 401 00:19:44,153 --> 00:19:46,854 So, Chase, you know, you're fighting in the legal arena here, 402 00:19:46,990 --> 00:19:49,719 and-- and you're working for the ACLU, and you're seeing-- 403 00:19:49,854 --> 00:19:53,162 These families, they're all trying to come to terms with how to deal with this, 404 00:19:53,297 --> 00:19:54,862 and it's a huge struggle. 405 00:19:54,998 --> 00:19:57,269 Well, I wanna say-- Yeah, so first of all... [stammers] 406 00:19:57,404 --> 00:19:59,869 ...these parents, their experiences, 407 00:20:00,005 --> 00:20:02,098 that's what we hear across the country... [Stewart] Mm-hmm. 408 00:20:02,233 --> 00:20:04,041 ...across communities and around the world, 409 00:20:04,177 --> 00:20:06,242 that kids know who they are, 410 00:20:06,377 --> 00:20:08,774 that what improves their health, 411 00:20:08,910 --> 00:20:12,250 what makes them thrive is love and support. 412 00:20:12,386 --> 00:20:14,582 When we hear about experimental surgery, 413 00:20:14,718 --> 00:20:18,222 that is not happening on children, period. 414 00:20:18,358 --> 00:20:20,918 Children means pre-pubertal children. 415 00:20:21,054 --> 00:20:23,321 There are no medical interventions, period. 416 00:20:23,457 --> 00:20:26,932 That is a distortion designed to make people support legislation 417 00:20:27,068 --> 00:20:28,297 targeting our communities. 418 00:20:28,432 --> 00:20:30,227 What we do know harms children, 419 00:20:30,362 --> 00:20:32,770 for example, is removing them from loving homes. 420 00:20:32,906 --> 00:20:35,638 That is what Governor Abbott is suggesting be done in Texas. 421 00:20:35,774 --> 00:20:38,370 And this is all-- This has been really a rapid rise. 422 00:20:38,506 --> 00:20:39,969 This has gone to, 423 00:20:40,104 --> 00:20:41,873 "These are mutilations of children, 424 00:20:42,009 --> 00:20:44,916 and we're going to step in as the state..." 425 00:20:45,051 --> 00:20:46,118 [Michaels] Mm-hmm. 426 00:20:46,253 --> 00:20:47,552 "...and take children out of homes 427 00:20:47,687 --> 00:20:50,319 if they are going to abide by gender-affirming care." 428 00:20:50,454 --> 00:20:51,984 Now, why are people doing this? 429 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,323 I think that there's two fundamental reasons why. 430 00:20:54,458 --> 00:20:55,758 One, we're approaching midterms. 431 00:20:55,893 --> 00:20:57,459 We're approaching a 2024 presidential election. 432 00:20:57,594 --> 00:20:59,261 That cynical. It's that cynical. 433 00:20:59,397 --> 00:21:00,800 It is that cynical. Wow. 434 00:21:00,935 --> 00:21:01,999 Go to the early 2000s. 435 00:21:02,135 --> 00:21:03,359 When did we start seeing 436 00:21:03,495 --> 00:21:05,668 attacks on same-sex couples and marriage escalate? 437 00:21:05,803 --> 00:21:08,271 Election years, mobilizing a voting base. 438 00:21:08,406 --> 00:21:09,940 And then there's another reason, 439 00:21:10,076 --> 00:21:13,440 which is an investment in a far-right, Christian ideology. 440 00:21:13,576 --> 00:21:15,042 That is also fueling people. 441 00:21:15,178 --> 00:21:18,011 But again, in theory we have a separation of church and state. 442 00:21:18,146 --> 00:21:20,211 In theory we should be-- [Stewart] In this country? 443 00:21:20,347 --> 00:21:22,011 -Well, we used to. Yeah, yeah. -[audience laughing] 444 00:21:22,147 --> 00:21:23,683 I wasn't sure now. You may have had-- 445 00:21:23,819 --> 00:21:25,322 "Are you from, uh..." Okay. Yeah. 446 00:21:25,457 --> 00:21:26,853 It was back in the Friendster days. 447 00:21:26,988 --> 00:21:28,692 Oh, I understand. Okay. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] 448 00:21:28,827 --> 00:21:30,663 But let me ask you, as-- as the doctor, then, 449 00:21:30,798 --> 00:21:35,460 what is the harm of waiting until they're "the age of majority"? 450 00:21:35,595 --> 00:21:40,039 What are the downsides of not giving gender-affirming care because-- 451 00:21:40,174 --> 00:21:42,504 or any of those drug therapies? 452 00:21:42,639 --> 00:21:44,169 What would be the harm in waiting? 453 00:21:44,304 --> 00:21:49,205 The statistic is something like 40% of kids who are-- 454 00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:51,516 who do not come into an affirming situation-- 455 00:21:51,651 --> 00:21:53,375 Which just means being respectful to them. 456 00:21:53,511 --> 00:21:55,516 It doesn't mean any treatment in particular. 457 00:21:55,652 --> 00:21:58,883 40% are contemplating suicide. 458 00:21:59,019 --> 00:22:01,293 And, um, and-- and self-harm rates-- 459 00:22:01,429 --> 00:22:03,356 So these-- the guidelines that you wrote, 460 00:22:03,492 --> 00:22:06,597 because you were-- you were responsible, with, uh, the endocrine board, 461 00:22:06,733 --> 00:22:09,497 for writing guidelines of care for endocrinologists. 462 00:22:09,632 --> 00:22:10,664 The Endocrine Society, yes. Yes. 463 00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:12,098 [Stewart] The Endocrine Society. 464 00:22:12,233 --> 00:22:16,370 And-- And that was based on, uh, research papers, data, 465 00:22:16,505 --> 00:22:19,377 the things that you saw intervening with gender-affirming care, 466 00:22:19,513 --> 00:22:21,173 which may be just being respectful, 467 00:22:21,309 --> 00:22:23,341 or, as they get older, some of these other things. 468 00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:28,085 You've seen that have, uh, a reduction in depression, 469 00:22:28,221 --> 00:22:29,517 a reduction in suicide. 470 00:22:29,652 --> 00:22:31,419 That's what you've studied. 471 00:22:31,555 --> 00:22:35,319 Absolutely. And-- And to be really clear, you used the word "woke." 472 00:22:35,454 --> 00:22:39,230 Um, the medical establishment is-- is not woke. 473 00:22:39,366 --> 00:22:40,862 [all laughing] At all. 474 00:22:42,398 --> 00:22:44,197 At all. [laughs] 475 00:22:44,333 --> 00:22:46,930 I'm sorry, my doctor in Greenwich Village would beg to differ. 476 00:22:47,066 --> 00:22:49,167 [audience, panelists laughing] 477 00:22:50,671 --> 00:22:51,904 Uh, that's understood. 478 00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:54,245 And so then what the-- it shifts to is, 479 00:22:54,380 --> 00:22:56,108 this is a profit center for you. 480 00:22:56,243 --> 00:23:00,110 That this is a cynical exploitation by Big Pharma 481 00:23:00,246 --> 00:23:02,351 to make money off of confused children. 482 00:23:02,487 --> 00:23:03,848 [Safer] That too is crazy 483 00:23:03,984 --> 00:23:05,822 because the areas of medicine 484 00:23:05,957 --> 00:23:08,621 that are brought in for gender-affirming care 485 00:23:08,756 --> 00:23:13,329 are heavily mental health, pediatrics, primary care, endocrinology. 486 00:23:13,464 --> 00:23:16,727 If you look up where the-- where the money centers are in medicine, 487 00:23:16,862 --> 00:23:18,229 those are not they. 488 00:23:19,439 --> 00:23:21,833 I had five colonoscopies last week. 489 00:23:21,969 --> 00:23:24,910 [audience, panelists laughing] 490 00:23:25,045 --> 00:23:27,236 -Not part of gender-affirming care. -[Jackson chuckles] 491 00:23:27,372 --> 00:23:28,843 First, I'd like to just make sure 492 00:23:28,978 --> 00:23:31,178 we clarify the different types of transitions 493 00:23:31,313 --> 00:23:33,915 because we've talked about-- there's no medical intervention. 494 00:23:34,051 --> 00:23:37,113 So, Avery socially transitioned at the age of four. 495 00:23:37,249 --> 00:23:39,488 So it was just name, pronouns, hair, 496 00:23:39,623 --> 00:23:41,450 saying daughter instead of son. 497 00:23:41,586 --> 00:23:45,487 Um, before we did that kind of affirmation, 498 00:23:45,623 --> 00:23:48,565 Avery was depressed, talked about death all the time, 499 00:23:48,701 --> 00:23:50,296 and actually tried to jump out of our car-- 500 00:23:50,432 --> 00:23:54,137 -At four? -At four. Just could not handle it. 501 00:23:54,273 --> 00:23:59,237 Doing that kind of social affirmation gave us a kid who smiled again, 502 00:23:59,373 --> 00:24:01,140 who said, "Mommy, I love you," all the time. 503 00:24:01,275 --> 00:24:03,242 We have a whole year between three and four 504 00:24:03,377 --> 00:24:06,244 where we don't have a photo of Avery smiling. 505 00:24:06,379 --> 00:24:09,318 And that changed just through social affirmation. 506 00:24:09,454 --> 00:24:13,325 So when people call us child abusers and say it's horrible to do this, it's-- 507 00:24:13,461 --> 00:24:15,555 They don't understand the realities. 508 00:24:15,691 --> 00:24:18,455 Is that the razor's edge you feel like you're living in, Keisha? 509 00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:21,997 That you feel like it's such a fragile situation that, 510 00:24:22,133 --> 00:24:26,163 "I have to do everything I can to save this child's life"? 511 00:24:26,299 --> 00:24:28,468 That's how I felt before she transitioned. 512 00:24:28,603 --> 00:24:31,975 [Stewart] Right. So, the year before she transitioned, I knew-- 513 00:24:32,111 --> 00:24:35,541 She was also verbalizing that she did not want to live. 514 00:24:35,676 --> 00:24:40,109 She, uh-- [stammers] And I-- I said, "I don't want to lose my child." 515 00:24:40,245 --> 00:24:43,015 So we may have had our head in the sands about what was really going on... 516 00:24:43,150 --> 00:24:44,724 Mm-hmm. ...uh, acknowledging this. 517 00:24:44,859 --> 00:24:49,056 So, yes, there was a razor's edge for sure at that point. 518 00:24:49,191 --> 00:24:51,289 Once we actually affirmed this child... 519 00:24:53,092 --> 00:24:54,564 she's actually been fine. 520 00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:56,327 [laughs] She's on her phone too much. 521 00:24:56,462 --> 00:24:58,032 -That's her biggest problem. -[audience laughing] 522 00:24:58,167 --> 00:25:01,297 -And so, she needed-- -My child only reads novels. 523 00:25:01,433 --> 00:25:03,067 [audience laughing] Exactly, right? 524 00:25:03,203 --> 00:25:05,477 I-- Well, I-- Not true in our house. 525 00:25:05,613 --> 00:25:08,411 But I will say that, uh, once she tran-- 526 00:25:08,546 --> 00:25:11,515 Honestly, once she had the "gender-affirming care" of her parents. 527 00:25:11,650 --> 00:25:12,781 Let's say that. [Stewart] Right. 528 00:25:12,916 --> 00:25:14,786 Gender-affirming care starts at home. 529 00:25:14,921 --> 00:25:18,019 And so once she had her parents' gender-affirming care, 530 00:25:18,155 --> 00:25:20,456 everything else just kind of fell into place for her. 531 00:25:20,592 --> 00:25:25,062 For most kids who are trans, 532 00:25:25,197 --> 00:25:27,957 having to go through a puberty that doesn't match their identity 533 00:25:28,093 --> 00:25:29,527 is quite traumatic. 534 00:25:29,662 --> 00:25:33,537 So anytime that we can prevent that from happening for them, 535 00:25:33,673 --> 00:25:35,801 I think it is particularly helpful. 536 00:25:35,937 --> 00:25:38,270 Now, not every person who is trans wants something done to their body, 537 00:25:38,405 --> 00:25:40,376 so I do wanna make sure that we make that point. 538 00:25:40,512 --> 00:25:41,613 But for a lot of folks-- 539 00:25:41,748 --> 00:25:43,181 And the gender-affirming care is supposed to 540 00:25:43,317 --> 00:25:45,013 figure out what's right 541 00:25:45,148 --> 00:25:46,852 for each individual child. For that-- Exactly. 542 00:25:46,988 --> 00:25:52,424 Chase, the legal battle now is to not give parents that choice. 543 00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:56,125 To basically say, "We understand. 544 00:25:56,261 --> 00:26:00,188 You can call your child whatever name you want, whatever pronoun, 545 00:26:00,324 --> 00:26:01,890 but we will not put them-- 546 00:26:02,026 --> 00:26:04,900 We will not allow them to go through this gender-affirming care." 547 00:26:05,035 --> 00:26:06,430 It's-- I think the words they use are 548 00:26:06,566 --> 00:26:10,436 "permanent," "irreversible," "does untold damage"... 549 00:26:10,572 --> 00:26:14,644 Yeah. The politicians-- The parental rights politicians of, 550 00:26:14,780 --> 00:26:16,009 "My kid doesn't have to wear a mask, 551 00:26:16,145 --> 00:26:17,641 I don't have to vaccinate my kid, 552 00:26:17,776 --> 00:26:20,517 my kid doesn't have to learn critical race theory in school," 553 00:26:20,653 --> 00:26:23,687 are passing laws that say we are going to take away the ability of parents 554 00:26:23,822 --> 00:26:25,625 to give their children lifesaving care. 555 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,957 And they're making arguments like, "It's a fad." 556 00:26:28,092 --> 00:26:29,921 That they're being subjected to social transition. 557 00:26:30,057 --> 00:26:33,165 Well, you know what? I grew up as a young trans person in a totally different time. 558 00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:36,593 You know the one trans-masculine person that I knew about? Brandon Teena. 559 00:26:36,728 --> 00:26:38,636 You know what happened to him? He was murdered. 560 00:26:38,772 --> 00:26:41,433 I had nothing else. That was the reality. 561 00:26:41,568 --> 00:26:45,001 And now, there are more people, thankfully, who can live 562 00:26:45,136 --> 00:26:48,438 because they have loving parents who are able to go to affirming doctors. 563 00:26:48,574 --> 00:26:50,607 -[Stewart] Right. -But the state is coming in, 564 00:26:50,743 --> 00:26:53,614 many states, passing laws trying to ban this care. 565 00:26:53,749 --> 00:26:56,784 Um, starting with Arkansas, the first state to do it in 2021. 566 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,019 Now we have additional states, 567 00:26:58,154 --> 00:26:59,784 and we're fighting across the country 568 00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:03,829 to try to make sure that parents can get the medically supported care 569 00:27:03,964 --> 00:27:06,430 and make decisions in conjunction with their doctors 570 00:27:06,566 --> 00:27:07,694 to save their kids' lives. 571 00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:08,995 Well, then, uh, I think 572 00:27:09,130 --> 00:27:10,626 the only thing to do at this point 573 00:27:10,761 --> 00:27:13,666 is to go talk to the Attorney General of Arkansas. 574 00:27:13,801 --> 00:27:14,669 [Strangio] Mmm. 575 00:27:14,805 --> 00:27:17,370 Uh, and, uh, we will do that. 576 00:27:17,505 --> 00:27:19,578 Uh, I want to thank you all very much for being here. 577 00:27:19,713 --> 00:27:22,074 Keisha, Debi, uh, Chase, and Dr. Safer. 578 00:27:22,209 --> 00:27:23,409 Thank you so much for being here. 579 00:27:23,544 --> 00:27:25,245 -[audience applauding] -Uh, take a look at this. 580 00:27:33,284 --> 00:27:34,191 [audience laughing] 581 00:27:34,327 --> 00:27:35,560 Two genders? 582 00:27:35,696 --> 00:27:37,695 What, do you think I, God Almighty, 583 00:27:37,831 --> 00:27:41,359 creator of heaven and earth and calzones, 584 00:27:41,494 --> 00:27:43,829 made only two kinds of humans, yes? 585 00:27:43,964 --> 00:27:47,971 You basic, bipedal fucks. I deserve way more credit than that. 586 00:27:48,106 --> 00:27:50,067 Have you seen the complexity of my work? 587 00:27:50,203 --> 00:27:52,806 Look, let me-- let me find something here. [stammering] Look at this. 588 00:27:52,941 --> 00:27:56,673 Platypus. Look at this guy. He's got tits, fur, a bill, lays eggs. 589 00:27:56,808 --> 00:27:59,877 And those tits, they're not ornamental. They work. 590 00:28:00,012 --> 00:28:03,020 Do you get it? I like trying shit. It's fun for me. It's what I do. 591 00:28:03,156 --> 00:28:06,989 But lo, I say unto thee, I'm not a fan of critics. 592 00:28:07,125 --> 00:28:09,419 I created humans, and I love you all, 593 00:28:09,555 --> 00:28:11,996 but like I said to the dinosaurs, 594 00:28:12,131 --> 00:28:15,091 -"Fuck around and find out." -[audience laughing] 595 00:28:15,226 --> 00:28:18,030 Before I go, l-let me show you some of my latest stuff here. Look at this. 596 00:28:18,165 --> 00:28:19,128 AnaHonda. [car alarm beeps] 597 00:28:19,264 --> 00:28:20,305 Half snake, half Honda. 598 00:28:20,441 --> 00:28:21,464 What's this right here? 599 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,910 Hotter, an otter that is incredibly hot. 600 00:28:26,045 --> 00:28:29,441 And so cute with her glaze, with her clam. 601 00:28:29,576 --> 00:28:31,750 Cheese river. River flowing with cheese. 602 00:28:31,886 --> 00:28:33,279 Eh, I'm just kidding. You wish, motherfuckers. 603 00:28:33,414 --> 00:28:36,379 All right. Aliens are real. I'm out. 604 00:28:36,514 --> 00:28:39,783 [audience cheering, applauding] 605 00:28:39,918 --> 00:28:41,057 Hey. 606 00:28:42,855 --> 00:28:44,758 So, 607 00:28:44,893 --> 00:28:48,394 as I mentioned to our distinguished panel, we went to Arkansas. 608 00:28:50,071 --> 00:28:53,433 And we didn't just talk to, like, somebody off the street. 609 00:28:53,568 --> 00:28:57,474 We talked to the Attorney General of Arkansas. 610 00:28:57,610 --> 00:28:59,041 [audience member groans] 611 00:28:59,177 --> 00:29:01,044 -[Stewart whines] -[audience laughing] 612 00:29:04,943 --> 00:29:07,444 [Stewart] Is it Attorney Generals or Attorneys General? 613 00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:09,453 -Attorneys General. -Attorneys General. 614 00:29:09,589 --> 00:29:10,818 It's a very odd plural. 615 00:29:10,953 --> 00:29:12,581 Attorney General Rutledge. 616 00:29:12,717 --> 00:29:14,288 That's right. Thank you for joining us. 617 00:29:14,423 --> 00:29:18,463 Tell us about the SAFE Act. What is the SAFE Act? 618 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:21,626 We passed law in Arkansas a couple of years ago called the SAFE Act, 619 00:29:21,762 --> 00:29:24,964 which stands for Save Adolescents From Experimentation. 620 00:29:25,099 --> 00:29:28,866 And essentially what it does, Jon, is to prevent, uh, young people 621 00:29:29,001 --> 00:29:32,142 from being, uh-- go through these experimental procedures 622 00:29:32,277 --> 00:29:34,346 to transition their gender from male to female 623 00:29:34,482 --> 00:29:35,504 and from female to male. 624 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,114 What do you mean by experimentation? 625 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:39,010 Well, all of these, uh, drugs we're talking about 626 00:29:39,146 --> 00:29:40,884 have not been approved, 627 00:29:41,019 --> 00:29:43,180 and these are experimental procedures 628 00:29:43,316 --> 00:29:46,525 to transition, uh, these young people, these adolescents essentially, 629 00:29:46,661 --> 00:29:47,987 from male to female... Mm-hmm. 630 00:29:48,123 --> 00:29:49,352 ...or from female to male. 631 00:29:49,488 --> 00:29:52,522 And what we passed in Arkansas 632 00:29:52,658 --> 00:29:54,625 was to simply say that you can't do that, 633 00:29:54,761 --> 00:29:56,463 that we are going to protect these children. 634 00:29:56,598 --> 00:29:58,694 So this is-- Doesn't prevent them as an 18-year-old-- 635 00:29:58,829 --> 00:30:00,201 I think that's what's important... Right. 636 00:30:00,336 --> 00:30:02,265 ...for Arkansans and Americans to understand. 637 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,543 This does not prevent someone at age 18 from making that decision. 638 00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:11,950 How many Arkansans in the last five years before the law was passed 639 00:30:13,146 --> 00:30:14,846 had that surgery, uh, 640 00:30:14,982 --> 00:30:17,450 to transition from male to female or female to male as a minor? 641 00:30:18,750 --> 00:30:20,618 Well, that answer I don't know, uh, Jon. 642 00:30:21,729 --> 00:30:24,829 Uh, in our research, it was zero. 643 00:30:24,965 --> 00:30:29,435 So it's-- it definitely hasn't happened. 644 00:30:29,570 --> 00:30:30,735 So you're saying this is-- 645 00:30:30,871 --> 00:30:33,005 It's purely a preventative measure. 646 00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:36,164 It's not stopping something that's currently happening. 647 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:39,572 This is predominantly to also protect them from those drugs, 648 00:30:39,708 --> 00:30:42,173 uh, that are being used to change their hormones. 649 00:30:42,309 --> 00:30:43,674 That it's not only-- Right. 650 00:30:43,809 --> 00:30:45,048 You know, when people think of transitioning 651 00:30:45,183 --> 00:30:46,718 they think of having actual surgery. 652 00:30:46,853 --> 00:30:47,850 -Right. -Whether that's-- 653 00:30:47,985 --> 00:30:49,780 But it's not simply the surgery. 654 00:30:49,915 --> 00:30:53,019 It's hormone suppressants and puberty blockers 655 00:30:53,155 --> 00:30:54,255 that we're talking about. 656 00:30:54,391 --> 00:30:57,096 So, let me give you the-- the flip side of it. 657 00:30:57,231 --> 00:31:01,560 I think a lot of people might say, including myself, uh, 658 00:31:01,695 --> 00:31:05,036 it's surprising that the state would say, 659 00:31:07,134 --> 00:31:12,702 "We wanna make a decision for your family and your child to protect them," 660 00:31:12,837 --> 00:31:16,012 even though the American Medical Association, 661 00:31:16,147 --> 00:31:18,714 the American Association of Pediatrics, 662 00:31:18,849 --> 00:31:21,116 the Endocrine Society, 663 00:31:21,252 --> 00:31:25,252 the American Association of Psychiatrists, 664 00:31:25,388 --> 00:31:28,125 all recommend a certain set of guidelines 665 00:31:28,260 --> 00:31:32,157 for children that are expressing gender dysphoria. 666 00:31:32,292 --> 00:31:35,099 So I guess my surprise is, 667 00:31:35,235 --> 00:31:41,897 why would the state of Arkansas step in to override 668 00:31:42,033 --> 00:31:48,074 parents, physicians, psychiatrists, endocrinologists, 669 00:31:48,210 --> 00:31:50,950 who have developed guidelines? 670 00:31:51,085 --> 00:31:53,250 Why would you override those guidelines? 671 00:31:53,386 --> 00:31:56,279 Well, I think it's important that all of those physicians, 672 00:31:56,414 --> 00:31:57,782 all of those experts-- 673 00:31:57,918 --> 00:32:00,989 For every single one of them, there's an expert that says, 674 00:32:01,124 --> 00:32:06,229 "We don't need to allow children to be able to take those medications." 675 00:32:06,364 --> 00:32:09,095 That there are many instances where-- Right. 676 00:32:09,231 --> 00:32:10,563 But you know that's not true. 677 00:32:10,698 --> 00:32:12,828 You know it's not, "For every one, there's one." 678 00:32:12,964 --> 00:32:15,331 There's, "These are the established medical"-- 679 00:32:15,466 --> 00:32:18,504 Well, I don't know that that's not true. I don't know that you know that. 680 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,504 Why would you pass a law, then, if you don't-- 681 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,514 if you don't know that that's true? 682 00:32:22,649 --> 00:32:25,547 Well, I know that there are doctors and that we had plenty of people come 683 00:32:25,683 --> 00:32:27,477 -and testify before our legislature... -Mm-hmm. 684 00:32:27,612 --> 00:32:29,485 ...who said that, uh, you know, 685 00:32:29,621 --> 00:32:34,018 we have 98% of the young people who have gender dysphoria are-- 686 00:32:34,153 --> 00:32:35,619 Right. 687 00:32:35,755 --> 00:32:38,789 ...that they are able to move past that. 688 00:32:38,924 --> 00:32:41,032 And once they have the-- the help that they need, 689 00:32:41,167 --> 00:32:44,069 no longer suffer from gender dysphoria. 98%. 690 00:32:44,204 --> 00:32:46,566 -Wow. -Without, uh, that medical treatment-- 691 00:32:46,701 --> 00:32:49,632 That's an-- That's an incredibly made-up figure. 692 00:32:49,767 --> 00:32:50,866 [audience laughing] That's-- 693 00:32:51,001 --> 00:32:53,909 That doesn't comport with any of the studies 694 00:32:54,045 --> 00:32:55,639 or documentation that exists 695 00:32:55,775 --> 00:32:57,483 from these medical organizations. 696 00:32:57,618 --> 00:33:00,815 What-- What medical association are you talking about of these doctors? 697 00:33:00,951 --> 00:33:05,121 Well, we have all of that in our, uh, legislative history, 698 00:33:05,257 --> 00:33:06,889 and we'll be glad to provide that to you. 699 00:33:07,024 --> 00:33:09,557 Uh, I don't have the name of that off the top of my head. I know-- 700 00:33:09,693 --> 00:33:12,564 You don't have the name of the organization? That-- 701 00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:13,796 Off the top of my head. 702 00:33:13,932 --> 00:33:15,629 -Oh, okay. -But, yes. 703 00:33:15,764 --> 00:33:17,867 We have all of that cited in all of our briefs. 704 00:33:18,002 --> 00:33:23,974 You're suggesting that protecting children means overriding the recommendations 705 00:33:24,109 --> 00:33:29,043 of the American Medical Association, the American Association of Pediatrics, 706 00:33:29,178 --> 00:33:30,341 the Endocrine Society? 707 00:33:30,477 --> 00:33:32,008 We don't have enough data. 708 00:33:32,144 --> 00:33:34,882 We don't have enough to show that these drugs are effective 709 00:33:35,017 --> 00:33:37,947 and that these children are better off and that we should encourage-- 710 00:33:38,082 --> 00:33:40,256 You don't have enough, or it's not enough for you? 711 00:33:40,391 --> 00:33:42,257 Let-- Let me try and flip it a different way 712 00:33:42,392 --> 00:33:44,292 and see if maybe this-- this can help. 713 00:33:44,428 --> 00:33:48,133 In Arkansas, if you have pediatric cancer-- 714 00:33:50,236 --> 00:33:51,729 And obviously we all wanna protect children. 715 00:33:51,864 --> 00:33:53,864 I think we established that earlier. 716 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,967 Whose guidelines do you follow for pediatric cancer? 717 00:33:58,102 --> 00:34:00,904 Well, I think, if my child, who is four-- 718 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:05,181 If I was faced with that terrible, uh, decision, 719 00:34:05,316 --> 00:34:07,077 then I would be speaking to my doctor. 720 00:34:07,212 --> 00:34:10,251 And if my doctor recommended something that I disagreed with, 721 00:34:10,386 --> 00:34:11,884 then I would get a second opinion. 722 00:34:12,020 --> 00:34:14,225 And that's why I believe that these parents need to make sure 723 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,294 that they're encouraged to get numerous opinions 724 00:34:16,429 --> 00:34:19,730 when they're talking about an irreversible step. 725 00:34:19,866 --> 00:34:21,198 You're not letting them. 726 00:34:21,334 --> 00:34:23,858 The state's not saying, "Get another opinion." 727 00:34:23,994 --> 00:34:25,565 What they're saying is, "You can't." 728 00:34:25,700 --> 00:34:27,437 What you're actually saying is the opposite. 729 00:34:27,572 --> 00:34:29,432 That's actually not at all what the state said. 730 00:34:29,568 --> 00:34:32,739 The state simply said that you cannot perform these procedures. 731 00:34:32,874 --> 00:34:35,510 And so, parents should get another opinion. That they-- 732 00:34:35,645 --> 00:34:37,778 And children should want to have another opinion. 733 00:34:37,913 --> 00:34:39,943 -But that's not-- -Because, again, these are nine, ten-- 734 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:42,682 So, if your child is suffering from pediatric cancer 735 00:34:43,948 --> 00:34:45,953 and the state comes in and says to you, 736 00:34:46,089 --> 00:34:49,527 "They recommend chemotherapy, but we're not going to let you do that. 737 00:34:49,662 --> 00:34:51,019 You can't. 738 00:34:51,154 --> 00:34:54,126 We think you should get a different opinion, 739 00:34:54,261 --> 00:34:57,599 and here's the organization we think you should get the opinion from. 740 00:34:57,734 --> 00:35:01,406 They're not the mainstream, but they're an organization. 741 00:35:01,542 --> 00:35:05,606 So, that's how you-- That's who you have to be treated by." 742 00:35:05,741 --> 00:35:08,178 Does that sound like something you would accept? 743 00:35:08,313 --> 00:35:09,776 I think that's a very extreme example 744 00:35:09,911 --> 00:35:11,906 that's not at all in line with what we're talking about. 745 00:35:12,042 --> 00:35:13,614 We're not saying that at some point-- 746 00:35:13,749 --> 00:35:16,119 Because when you have cancer, it literally is-- 747 00:35:16,254 --> 00:35:17,816 And particularly pediatric cancer, 748 00:35:17,952 --> 00:35:19,519 and having friends that have lost children... 749 00:35:19,655 --> 00:35:21,351 -Sure. -...to pediatric cancer-- 750 00:35:21,486 --> 00:35:23,261 -Having a four-year-old, I'm sure-- -I've got some bad news for you. 751 00:35:24,826 --> 00:35:27,759 Parents with children who have gender dysphoria 752 00:35:27,895 --> 00:35:31,697 have lost children to suicide and depression... 753 00:35:31,833 --> 00:35:33,870 -They absolutely have. -...because it's acute. 754 00:35:34,005 --> 00:35:39,737 And so, these mainstream medical organizations have developed guidelines 755 00:35:39,872 --> 00:35:43,879 through peer-reviewed data and studies. 756 00:35:44,015 --> 00:35:48,348 And through those guidelines, they've improved mental health outcomes. 757 00:35:48,483 --> 00:35:52,188 So, I'm confused why you follow 758 00:35:52,323 --> 00:35:55,555 AMA guidelines and AAAP guidelines 759 00:35:55,691 --> 00:35:59,060 for all other health issues in Arkansas, 760 00:35:59,195 --> 00:36:00,331 because we checked, 761 00:36:01,395 --> 00:36:03,163 but not for this. 762 00:36:03,298 --> 00:36:05,032 It's simply saying, 763 00:36:05,168 --> 00:36:09,969 "Let those young people who are facing gender confusion and dysphoria-- 764 00:36:10,105 --> 00:36:12,701 Allow them to become adults and to make that decision. 765 00:36:12,837 --> 00:36:14,641 Allow a child to be a child." 766 00:36:14,777 --> 00:36:17,042 So, here's where we have our-- our crossroads. 767 00:36:17,177 --> 00:36:20,715 You've made the determination that protecting these children 768 00:36:20,850 --> 00:36:25,019 means not giving them access to the guidelines in care 769 00:36:25,154 --> 00:36:28,225 that have been designed by medical and mental health professionals 770 00:36:28,361 --> 00:36:30,829 for children expressing gender dysphoria. 771 00:36:30,964 --> 00:36:33,694 And I'm asking you again, 772 00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:38,534 what are your qualifications to step in and say, 773 00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:41,863 "No. Keeping you from that care is protecting you." 774 00:36:41,998 --> 00:36:44,105 You've made that determination. 775 00:36:44,241 --> 00:36:49,311 Well, these are irreversible decisions that these children at these young ages 776 00:36:49,446 --> 00:36:51,246 are making or that their parents-- 777 00:36:51,381 --> 00:36:52,807 They're not making the decision. 778 00:36:52,943 --> 00:36:54,419 You're making it sound like 779 00:36:54,554 --> 00:36:58,153 a nine-year-old walks into a doctor's office and says, 780 00:36:58,289 --> 00:36:59,783 "Give me some testosterone." 781 00:36:59,919 --> 00:37:02,717 And the doctor goes, "Oh, thank God. 782 00:37:02,853 --> 00:37:08,066 Because we're wanting to create an army of transgenders because we're crazy." 783 00:37:08,201 --> 00:37:09,798 And, they go right in like-- No. 784 00:37:09,933 --> 00:37:12,631 We passed a law to protect the children in Arkansas, 785 00:37:12,767 --> 00:37:14,796 and I think that's what is important. 786 00:37:14,932 --> 00:37:18,941 Again, the medical community disagrees with you that that's protecting children. 787 00:37:19,076 --> 00:37:21,710 -Well, not all of the medical community. -Who doesn't? 788 00:37:21,845 --> 00:37:25,381 We have had experts testify here in Arkansas. 789 00:37:25,516 --> 00:37:28,078 Okay. From what medical organizations? 790 00:37:28,213 --> 00:37:30,547 Well, we have all of those in our briefs. 791 00:37:30,683 --> 00:37:34,484 And I apologize that I wasn't prepared to have a Supreme Court argument today 792 00:37:34,619 --> 00:37:36,318 in front of you. 793 00:37:36,453 --> 00:37:38,987 But, uh, we are going to have arguments on this case... 794 00:37:39,123 --> 00:37:42,095 -Right. -...uh, when the time comes. 795 00:37:42,231 --> 00:37:45,831 Let me ask you this. Do you think gender and sex are complicated? 796 00:37:45,966 --> 00:37:48,773 I think it's obvious that it is complicated. 797 00:37:48,909 --> 00:37:51,674 -And for these young people-- -So why make a black-and-white decision? 798 00:37:51,809 --> 00:37:54,203 And for those that are faced with this confusion, 799 00:37:54,338 --> 00:37:56,348 I think we need to give them the help they need. 800 00:37:56,483 --> 00:37:58,312 Who do you want to give the mental health care? 801 00:37:58,448 --> 00:38:00,346 Because you've already said 802 00:38:00,482 --> 00:38:04,884 that the guidelines from the American Psychiatric Association are not correct. 803 00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:08,651 To them, a successful, uh, conclusion of this 804 00:38:08,787 --> 00:38:13,158 is a child who determines, with their family and their caregivers 805 00:38:13,293 --> 00:38:16,332 and their mental health, uh, experts and their physician, 806 00:38:16,468 --> 00:38:18,028 what the best course of treatment is. 807 00:38:18,163 --> 00:38:20,933 It may be that they get into it and decide, 808 00:38:21,068 --> 00:38:24,468 "This is not for me. I'm not actually transgender." 809 00:38:24,603 --> 00:38:29,138 But you're stepping in and saying, "That's not the help they need." 810 00:38:29,273 --> 00:38:31,143 Well, I think it is important for them to... 811 00:38:31,279 --> 00:38:33,950 [stammers] ...speak to and have that mental health treatment. 812 00:38:34,086 --> 00:38:37,554 Just because, again, that we disagree with whether or not they can have 813 00:38:39,085 --> 00:38:42,091 gender-transitioning medications or surgeries 814 00:38:42,226 --> 00:38:45,428 does not mean that they can't have the opportunity to speak to 815 00:38:45,563 --> 00:38:48,193 licensed therapists and psychiatrists. 816 00:38:48,329 --> 00:38:50,664 But you understand, when you go to speak to a psychiatrist, 817 00:38:50,799 --> 00:38:52,769 they have guidelines that they follow. 818 00:38:52,904 --> 00:38:55,568 And the guidelines are developed through peer review studies. 819 00:38:55,703 --> 00:39:01,237 What I'm saying is that our reasoning behind passing this law in Arkansas 820 00:39:02,478 --> 00:39:04,511 is not to discriminate, 821 00:39:04,647 --> 00:39:07,510 but it's simply to protect and allow those children to continue to develop. 822 00:39:07,646 --> 00:39:11,748 We're not gonna allow young people, a 16-year-old, or-- to vote. 823 00:39:11,884 --> 00:39:14,259 We're not gonna let them buy cigarettes. We're not gonna let them... 824 00:39:14,395 --> 00:39:16,092 -So you're-- -...do all of these things-- 825 00:39:16,227 --> 00:39:20,229 You're suggesting that buying cigarettes is equivalent to gender dysphoria? 826 00:39:20,365 --> 00:39:21,697 No, I'm not suggesting that. 827 00:39:21,832 --> 00:39:24,903 I'm saying that we have laws that are recognized 828 00:39:25,038 --> 00:39:30,440 that we say that age of majority is the point in which someone 829 00:39:30,576 --> 00:39:32,439 -can make a decision for-- -So-- 830 00:39:32,574 --> 00:39:35,912 -If a child says, "I'm depressed"-- -Can't even rent a car until you're 25. 831 00:39:36,047 --> 00:39:41,211 Okay. So, why allow children to get access to ADHD medication, 832 00:39:41,346 --> 00:39:44,951 or depression medication, or bipolar medication? 833 00:39:45,087 --> 00:39:49,825 Well, it's because it's changing permanently. 834 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,131 -It's not. It's just not. -It's not changing-- 835 00:39:54,267 --> 00:39:57,728 Puberty blockers aren't changing people permanently. They're-- They're just not. 836 00:39:57,864 --> 00:40:00,263 And the bar to get things 837 00:40:00,398 --> 00:40:04,303 that have maybe slightly more permanence to it 838 00:40:04,438 --> 00:40:06,108 is higher. 839 00:40:06,243 --> 00:40:09,179 And it takes longer. That's how the guidelines have been developed. 840 00:40:09,315 --> 00:40:14,083 Arkansas has simply said, "We're going to allow these children to be children." 841 00:40:14,219 --> 00:40:16,119 And as they are-- 842 00:40:16,255 --> 00:40:20,158 And we wanna, again, encourage them to have access to the mental health care. 843 00:40:20,293 --> 00:40:22,620 Because none of us can imagine, 844 00:40:22,755 --> 00:40:25,992 whether it's my daughter, your daughter, your son, anybody-- 845 00:40:26,127 --> 00:40:30,602 If my daughter or my son came to me in agony, 846 00:40:30,737 --> 00:40:34,165 and I knew there was a program that I could get them into 847 00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:37,068 that had positive effects on their mental health, 848 00:40:37,204 --> 00:40:42,073 I would swim across rivers and climb mountains 849 00:40:42,209 --> 00:40:45,776 and tunnel through whatever I needed to get to 850 00:40:45,911 --> 00:40:47,849 to save that child's life. 851 00:40:47,985 --> 00:40:50,446 -And my guess is you'd do the same. -And I think-- 852 00:40:50,581 --> 00:40:53,283 And I truly hope you're never faced with that decision. 853 00:40:53,418 --> 00:40:56,353 Because I imagine it's agonizing for the parent. 854 00:40:56,488 --> 00:40:59,323 -Yes. -And it's agonizing for the child. 855 00:40:59,458 --> 00:41:04,065 But the fact that you've removed that option for people 856 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,397 seems antithetical to the values you profess to espouse. 857 00:41:10,007 --> 00:41:13,174 Well, again, nothing is going to stop that child, 858 00:41:13,309 --> 00:41:16,439 when he or she turns 18, from being able to make this decision. 859 00:41:16,574 --> 00:41:20,148 Well, something will stop them: if they don't turn 18. 860 00:41:20,283 --> 00:41:25,648 I mean, I don't think it's fair to put-- and to say to a child, 861 00:41:25,784 --> 00:41:28,449 "You're going to kill yourself if you don't take this medicine." 862 00:41:28,585 --> 00:41:30,694 -That's essentially what you-- -[scoffs] What? 863 00:41:30,830 --> 00:41:32,656 -That's all you talk about is... -Who's saying that? 864 00:41:32,791 --> 00:41:35,631 ...that the suicide rate is through the roof for these young people. 865 00:41:35,766 --> 00:41:37,295 The suicide rate isn't through the roof 866 00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:38,864 because doctors want them to take the medicine. 867 00:41:38,999 --> 00:41:41,167 It's because they live in a state 868 00:41:41,303 --> 00:41:47,104 where who they are is actually something that is viewed as, 869 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:49,540 uh, something that needs to be legislated. 870 00:41:49,676 --> 00:41:53,783 That a lot of the pressure that they feel isn't from who they are 871 00:41:53,919 --> 00:41:57,285 but from society's reaction to who they are. 872 00:41:57,420 --> 00:42:02,421 And from people like the state of Arkansas outlawing the treatment 873 00:42:02,557 --> 00:42:05,420 that can help their mental, uh, health and their physical health. 874 00:42:05,555 --> 00:42:09,060 -All I've heard from you... -Mm-hmm. 875 00:42:09,195 --> 00:42:11,295 ...and from this very vocal minority-- 876 00:42:11,431 --> 00:42:13,400 What "vocal minority" are you talking about? 877 00:42:13,536 --> 00:42:17,901 The opponents of our law in Arkansas and those who are challenging it. 878 00:42:18,037 --> 00:42:19,669 Not just the plaintiffs-- 879 00:42:19,805 --> 00:42:23,878 "Vocal minority" meaning the AMA, the AAP, the Endocrine Society. 880 00:42:24,013 --> 00:42:26,076 You're saying that "vocal minority"? 881 00:42:26,211 --> 00:42:29,119 But it's a vocal minority of Americans, and I think that's what's important. 882 00:42:29,255 --> 00:42:31,222 And of Arkansans. 883 00:42:31,358 --> 00:42:36,727 Why don't you consider allowing children who are experiencing gender dysphoria-- 884 00:42:38,426 --> 00:42:41,596 Isn't it experimentation to not put them through treatment? 885 00:42:41,731 --> 00:42:43,758 Isn't that also experimentation? 886 00:42:43,894 --> 00:42:46,733 Why are you willing to experiment on them by doing nothing? 887 00:42:46,868 --> 00:42:49,004 I'm not saying let's do nothing. 888 00:42:49,139 --> 00:42:50,965 Well, you're not saying to follow the guidelines. 889 00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:53,445 -So... [stammers] ...what should you do? -Well, they're "guidelines." 890 00:42:53,580 --> 00:42:55,846 I'm saying get a second opinion. Talk-- 891 00:42:55,982 --> 00:42:59,812 Talk to other doctors. Talk to family. Let this child-- 892 00:42:59,947 --> 00:43:01,576 But isn't that experimentation? 893 00:43:02,950 --> 00:43:04,815 How is that not experimentation? 894 00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:08,824 Because this other stuff has been determined through data and peer review. 895 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,288 But we haven't had enough data and peer review. 896 00:43:11,423 --> 00:43:12,989 So it's all an experiment, isn't it? 897 00:43:13,125 --> 00:43:14,831 I have to be honest with you. 898 00:43:14,966 --> 00:43:18,868 The care and guidelines for transgender children 899 00:43:19,003 --> 00:43:21,398 seem a lot more considered and thought-out 900 00:43:22,808 --> 00:43:24,837 than the law preventing them from getting it, 901 00:43:24,972 --> 00:43:29,247 where you can't even cite the medical organization that agrees with you. 902 00:43:29,382 --> 00:43:31,775 So, if we're talking about 903 00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:37,822 one decision that seems rash and one decision that seems conservative, 904 00:43:37,958 --> 00:43:41,759 it's the guidelines for transition seems conservative, 905 00:43:42,659 --> 00:43:44,322 and the law seems rash. 906 00:43:45,488 --> 00:43:49,024 Well, I believe that the outcry-- 907 00:43:49,159 --> 00:43:53,697 And by those who are wanting to use these young people as political pawns-- 908 00:43:53,833 --> 00:43:57,305 And to attack those of us who put these sort of laws in place... 909 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,370 -Uh-huh. Right. -...are the ones who are, in fact, 910 00:43:59,505 --> 00:44:02,205 putting these children at risk and making them-- 911 00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:04,080 And putting them on public display 912 00:44:04,215 --> 00:44:08,018 and making it part of the mainstream media conversation. 913 00:44:08,154 --> 00:44:11,146 This was not part of the mainstream media conversation, uh, 914 00:44:11,282 --> 00:44:13,218 five years ago, ten years ago. 915 00:44:13,354 --> 00:44:15,386 But now these children are being put on display 916 00:44:15,521 --> 00:44:17,322 by those who are claiming to protect them, 917 00:44:17,457 --> 00:44:19,227 when, instead, we need to ensure, again, 918 00:44:19,363 --> 00:44:21,698 that they are working through this with their own families, 919 00:44:21,833 --> 00:44:23,226 their own doctors, their communities-- 920 00:44:23,362 --> 00:44:25,063 You're-- You're making that illegal. 921 00:44:25,198 --> 00:44:26,864 [audience laughing] All right. 922 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,972 Uh, we do appreciate you sitting down and talking to us about it. 923 00:44:30,107 --> 00:44:35,036 And, uh, I-- I hope that, uh, the law is-- 924 00:44:35,171 --> 00:44:36,881 is shot down. 925 00:44:37,016 --> 00:44:39,312 -Because I do think... -[audience laughing, applauding] 926 00:44:39,448 --> 00:44:43,920 ...that these children are in a very vulnerable situation. 927 00:44:44,056 --> 00:44:46,555 And I-- I disagree with you that this protects them. 928 00:44:46,691 --> 00:44:47,984 I actually think the opposite. 929 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,189 -Oh. -But thank you. 930 00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:53,163 Well, thank you for coming to Arkansas. Making a quick trip. 931 00:44:53,298 --> 00:44:55,356 -Thank you, though. Appreciate it. -Thank you, Jon. 932 00:44:55,491 --> 00:44:58,033 [audience laughing, applauding] 933 00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:08,609 Worst Thanksgiving ever. 934 00:45:08,745 --> 00:45:11,211 [audience laughing] 935 00:45:15,288 --> 00:45:17,888 Yeah, yep. 936 00:45:20,125 --> 00:45:22,827 I assume it felt watching it like it felt being there. 937 00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:26,556 Little bit of sphincter tightening. 938 00:45:28,001 --> 00:45:29,964 Uh, thank you, all, for watching this episode. 939 00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:31,870 That's gonna put us all on the same page. 940 00:45:32,005 --> 00:45:34,868 For more resources, check out these websites. 941 00:45:35,004 --> 00:45:38,937 We also got the podcast there which, as you know, is a window to the soul. 942 00:45:39,073 --> 00:45:40,773 Uh, and check out our website. 943 00:45:40,908 --> 00:45:45,708 It's, uh, the best zeros and ones that have been put together on the Net. 944 00:45:45,843 --> 00:45:48,717 Before we go, we always end the show on a low note. 945 00:45:48,852 --> 00:45:52,088 Here it is, your moment of Cruz. 946 00:45:52,224 --> 00:45:54,984 When Ketanji Brown Jackson was up for nomination... 947 00:45:55,119 --> 00:45:58,352 [crowd boos] 948 00:45:58,488 --> 00:46:01,366 ...there was a reporter who ran up to me, all excited, and he said... 949 00:46:01,501 --> 00:46:04,867 ...he was asking every Senate Republican on the Judiciary Committee 950 00:46:05,003 --> 00:46:06,534 the following question: "What is a woman?" 951 00:46:06,670 --> 00:46:07,531 "What is a woman?" 952 00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:09,968 And he looks at me with this "gotcha." 953 00:46:10,104 --> 00:46:12,169 And I turned to him and said, 954 00:46:12,304 --> 00:46:15,539 "Um, an adult female human?" 955 00:46:16,439 --> 00:46:18,773 [chuckles] You sly dog. 956 00:46:18,908 --> 00:46:21,820 [audience laughing, cheering, applauding]