1 00:00:04,087 --> 00:00:07,167 GUERRERO: Playboy is often associated with buxom blondes 2 00:00:07,216 --> 00:00:09,926 like Marilyn Monroe, Pamela Anderson, 3 00:00:09,968 --> 00:00:11,888 and Jenny McCarthy. 4 00:00:11,929 --> 00:00:14,559 So, what happens when women break through 5 00:00:14,598 --> 00:00:16,678 who are not the typical standard of beauty 6 00:00:16,725 --> 00:00:19,095 the readership is used to? 7 00:00:19,144 --> 00:00:22,314 He’s shooting me for days, so he thought he had the right 8 00:00:22,356 --> 00:00:24,016 to try to assault me. 9 00:00:24,066 --> 00:00:25,316 -Were you scared? -Yes, I was scared. 10 00:00:25,359 --> 00:00:27,149 I was very scared. 11 00:00:27,194 --> 00:00:31,074 And that is the moment that I felt like my life was over. 12 00:00:31,114 --> 00:00:34,084 People would kill me if they could. 13 00:00:34,117 --> 00:00:36,487 There are some people who would literally kill me. 14 00:00:36,537 --> 00:00:37,907 ♪ 15 00:00:37,955 --> 00:00:40,545 GUERRERO: A whole lot of controversy. 16 00:00:40,582 --> 00:00:43,212 [motor revving] 17 00:00:43,252 --> 00:00:44,712 My name is Hugh Hefner. 18 00:00:44,753 --> 00:00:46,253 I’m editor-publisher of "Playboy" magazine. 19 00:00:46,296 --> 00:00:47,796 REPORTER: Playboy is one 20 00:00:47,839 --> 00:00:50,339 of the most famous brand names in the world. 21 00:00:50,384 --> 00:00:52,594 It was simply to include sex as 22 00:00:52,636 --> 00:00:55,636 one natural part of a package for a male audience. 23 00:00:55,722 --> 00:00:57,432 KARI ANN: When I made the choice to do "Playboy," 24 00:00:57,474 --> 00:00:59,934 I didn’t realize all the choices that I was making 25 00:00:59,977 --> 00:01:02,017 that came with that choice. 26 00:01:02,062 --> 00:01:05,072 PITZULO: We don’t judge the men for buying the "Playboy"s, 27 00:01:05,107 --> 00:01:07,687 but we judge the women for posing for "Playboy." 28 00:01:07,734 --> 00:01:09,744 JILL: I was never Jill anymore. 29 00:01:09,778 --> 00:01:12,358 I was Jill that posed for "Playboy." 30 00:01:12,406 --> 00:01:14,526 WOMAN #3: I just gave in and knew that I was 31 00:01:14,575 --> 00:01:16,245 probably gonna go to hell. 32 00:01:16,285 --> 00:01:17,875 ZOE: It got to a certain point 33 00:01:17,911 --> 00:01:20,291 where it wasn’t fun anymore. 34 00:01:20,330 --> 00:01:22,710 SONDRA: This process was very painful, 35 00:01:22,749 --> 00:01:27,459 but I should be able to tell my story as I lived it. 36 00:01:35,470 --> 00:01:37,260 ♪ 37 00:01:37,306 --> 00:01:39,306 GUERRERO: In 1965, "Playboy" featured 38 00:01:39,349 --> 00:01:43,059 the very first Black Playmate, Jennifer Jackson. 39 00:01:43,061 --> 00:01:46,361 The choice sparked mixed reaction from readers. 40 00:01:46,398 --> 00:01:51,898 Some praised the decision, while others were angered by it 41 00:01:51,945 --> 00:01:55,695 By the time Elan Carter posed for "Playboy" in 1994, 42 00:01:55,741 --> 00:01:59,661 there had already been over 450 Playmates, 43 00:01:59,661 --> 00:02:02,621 but she was only the 13th Black Playmate 44 00:02:02,664 --> 00:02:04,624 in the magazine’s history. 45 00:02:04,666 --> 00:02:07,586 Elan Carter was already in the public eye 46 00:02:07,628 --> 00:02:09,878 when she was a dancer on "Soul Train" 47 00:02:09,963 --> 00:02:12,263 at just 14 years old. 48 00:02:12,299 --> 00:02:15,839 The stepdaughter of Temptations member Otis Williams, 49 00:02:15,886 --> 00:02:17,346 Elan was used to the spotlight 50 00:02:17,387 --> 00:02:20,427 and was modeling by the time she was 17. 51 00:02:20,474 --> 00:02:22,144 So, it wasn’t a big surprise 52 00:02:22,184 --> 00:02:24,984 when "Playboy" asked her to pose for the magazine. 53 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:27,060 Thank you. I’m so excited to talk to you. 54 00:02:27,105 --> 00:02:30,685 Your mother was actually a Playboy Bunny, right? 55 00:02:30,734 --> 00:02:33,824 Yes, she was a Playboy Bunny, and she worked 56 00:02:33,862 --> 00:02:36,452 at a Playboy Club in upstate New Jersey. 57 00:02:36,490 --> 00:02:39,870 So, when I was approached to do "Playboy" in the ’90s, 58 00:02:39,910 --> 00:02:41,870 she was all for it, and she was dating 59 00:02:41,912 --> 00:02:44,162 my stepfather at the time, 60 00:02:44,206 --> 00:02:46,326 who’s one of the original Temptations. [laughs] 61 00:02:46,375 --> 00:02:48,505 -Otis Williams. [laughs] -Yes. 62 00:02:48,543 --> 00:02:51,423 So, um, my mother talked me into doing it 63 00:02:51,463 --> 00:02:53,673 because I would go visit her at the Playboy office, 64 00:02:53,715 --> 00:02:56,335 and they approached me several times, 65 00:02:56,385 --> 00:03:00,222 and I was like, no, because I was modeling, I was overseas, 66 00:03:00,222 --> 00:03:02,352 and my agencies at that time, 67 00:03:02,391 --> 00:03:04,521 the models weren’t really doing "Playboy." 68 00:03:04,559 --> 00:03:06,439 -It was like a no-no. -They tell you don’t. 69 00:03:06,478 --> 00:03:08,348 Because it was looked down on, 70 00:03:08,397 --> 00:03:10,187 like, you know, you’re posing nude. 71 00:03:10,232 --> 00:03:12,902 It’s pornographic. "Playboy" to me is not pornographic. 72 00:03:12,943 --> 00:03:16,073 But a lot of clients won’t take you serious as a model. 73 00:03:16,113 --> 00:03:18,243 That’s the number one thing, right? 74 00:03:18,323 --> 00:03:20,163 Especially being an ethnic model 75 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,790 ’cause I was one of the few girls that worked a lot. 76 00:03:23,829 --> 00:03:28,249 You know, you work a lot. You’re the Black girl that we have. 77 00:03:28,291 --> 00:03:31,291 And it was like, "We’ll have to replace you." 78 00:03:31,336 --> 00:03:35,006 So, because of that platform that you already had... 79 00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:36,468 Mm-hmm. 80 00:03:36,508 --> 00:03:38,718 ...why did you decide to pose for "Playboy"? 81 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,300 ’Cause my mother talked me into it. [laughs] 82 00:03:41,346 --> 00:03:42,756 Because I was not gonna do it. 83 00:03:42,806 --> 00:03:44,556 And she’s like, "Just try it, just test." 84 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:46,349 I didn’t think I would get it, right? 85 00:03:46,393 --> 00:03:50,273 Because I knew several ethnic women who had auditioned 86 00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:52,153 to get in "Playboy," and they didn’t get in. 87 00:03:52,190 --> 00:03:53,940 -And why is that? -Because they weren’t 88 00:03:53,984 --> 00:03:56,494 picking Black girls, and these were beautiful women. 89 00:03:56,528 --> 00:03:57,988 So, I didn’t think anything of it. 90 00:03:58,029 --> 00:04:00,029 I was like, okay, I’ll just do it. 91 00:04:00,073 --> 00:04:01,663 There have been very few 92 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:03,330 African American Playmates of the Month. 93 00:04:03,368 --> 00:04:05,248 And in fact, before you, it had been several years... 94 00:04:05,287 --> 00:04:06,617 Mm-hmm. 95 00:04:06,663 --> 00:04:09,253 ...before they had had a Black Playmate. 96 00:04:11,293 --> 00:04:14,503 So, what was posing for "Playboy" like? 97 00:04:16,256 --> 00:04:17,876 It was quite interesting because 98 00:04:17,924 --> 00:04:20,804 I did have an incident when I was doing my test shoot 99 00:04:20,844 --> 00:04:24,974 with a photographer who tried to, uh, attack me. 100 00:04:25,015 --> 00:04:26,775 A "Playboy" photographer? 101 00:04:26,808 --> 00:04:28,268 Mm-hmm. 102 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:30,270 But he was, like, new, I guess, on the staff 103 00:04:30,312 --> 00:04:33,022 or testing for them. -Wait a minute. 104 00:04:33,064 --> 00:04:34,734 A photographer tried to sexually assault you? 105 00:04:34,775 --> 00:04:35,985 Mm-hmm. 106 00:04:36,026 --> 00:04:38,186 I was in a room with him by myself, 107 00:04:38,236 --> 00:04:40,526 I think the makeup artist, everyone left, 108 00:04:40,572 --> 00:04:43,122 and he just pulled his thing out 109 00:04:43,158 --> 00:04:44,698 and was trying to chase me around. 110 00:04:44,743 --> 00:04:47,503 So, he actually unzipped his pants? 111 00:04:47,537 --> 00:04:48,827 Mm-hmm. 112 00:04:48,872 --> 00:04:50,162 Did you think he was going to rape you? 113 00:04:50,207 --> 00:04:52,127 Yes. 114 00:04:52,167 --> 00:04:56,047 But I quickly was like, 115 00:04:56,087 --> 00:04:58,547 "Oh, yeah, let’s go out on another time. 116 00:04:58,590 --> 00:05:01,010 It’s not a good time." I don’t know what I said, 117 00:05:01,051 --> 00:05:03,641 but I did not react in an angry way 118 00:05:03,678 --> 00:05:05,348 because I knew I needed to get out 119 00:05:05,388 --> 00:05:07,888 of that environment and get in my car to go home. 120 00:05:07,933 --> 00:05:09,853 -Were you scared? -Yes, I was scared. 121 00:05:09,893 --> 00:05:11,733 I was very scared. 122 00:05:11,770 --> 00:05:14,230 First of all, I’m so sorry that happened to you. 123 00:05:14,272 --> 00:05:16,152 I don’t think I told my parents. 124 00:05:16,191 --> 00:05:18,691 I don’t even think I mentioned it to any--to them. 125 00:05:18,735 --> 00:05:20,065 Is this gonna be the first time 126 00:05:20,111 --> 00:05:21,651 your parents are gonna hear about this? 127 00:05:21,696 --> 00:05:23,946 Yes. Yes. When you’re sexually assaulted, 128 00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:26,490 I understand how women have a hard time 129 00:05:26,535 --> 00:05:30,755 when you’re young, expressing it and talking about it 130 00:05:30,789 --> 00:05:32,749 because it’s something that you think 131 00:05:32,791 --> 00:05:34,501 you could have done something different, 132 00:05:34,543 --> 00:05:36,753 or it’s some shame to it. 133 00:05:36,795 --> 00:05:40,215 Do you think he had ever done this to other women? 134 00:05:40,257 --> 00:05:43,047 I don’t know. I don’t know why he felt comfortable enough 135 00:05:43,093 --> 00:05:45,143 to try to assault me. 136 00:05:45,178 --> 00:05:47,848 Could it be ’cause as ethnic women we’re looked at, 137 00:05:47,889 --> 00:05:52,599 upon as being overly sexual or sexualized? 138 00:05:52,644 --> 00:05:55,154 Did you immediately call somebody from Playboy? 139 00:05:55,188 --> 00:05:57,018 I do remember reporting it. 140 00:05:57,065 --> 00:05:58,725 -Yeah, to Playboy? -Mm-hmm. 141 00:05:58,775 --> 00:06:01,025 -But not to law enforcement? -No. 142 00:06:01,069 --> 00:06:02,699 So, you reported it? 143 00:06:02,737 --> 00:06:05,157 Yes, and they didn’t believe me at first. 144 00:06:05,198 --> 00:06:07,698 Somebody from Playboy didn’t believe you? 145 00:06:07,742 --> 00:06:10,202 I remember they questioned it, and I said, 146 00:06:10,245 --> 00:06:13,585 "Listen, I’m telling you, this guy, like, had me in a room 147 00:06:13,623 --> 00:06:15,963 and really tried to sexually assault me." 148 00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:18,292 You report it to whom? 149 00:06:18,336 --> 00:06:20,456 I don’t remember ’cause it was so long ago. 150 00:06:20,505 --> 00:06:22,375 I know that he was really pissed off. 151 00:06:22,382 --> 00:06:24,932 He called me and cussed me out, and it’s like, 152 00:06:24,968 --> 00:06:26,968 "I got fired, and I’m not gonna work." 153 00:06:27,012 --> 00:06:30,892 I’m like, you tried to attack me, literally. 154 00:06:30,932 --> 00:06:33,392 Within one of your first encounters with Playboy, 155 00:06:33,435 --> 00:06:35,485 somebody tries to sexually assault you. 156 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,310 That is going to color the way 157 00:06:37,355 --> 00:06:40,355 the rest of your relationship is potentially with that brand. 158 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,070 My experience working 159 00:06:42,110 --> 00:06:46,410 with the Playboy enterprise had obstacles. 160 00:06:46,448 --> 00:06:48,528 It wasn’t Hef, ’cause I know, 161 00:06:48,575 --> 00:06:50,285 you know, people have had their issues with him. 162 00:06:50,327 --> 00:06:52,697 It was the enterprise of Playboy. 163 00:06:52,746 --> 00:06:56,666 Explain that, because I think part of your journey goes back 164 00:06:56,708 --> 00:06:59,288 to when you were actually shooting your pictorial. 165 00:06:59,336 --> 00:07:01,376 What did you think about it? 166 00:07:01,421 --> 00:07:03,461 I was extremely disappointed 167 00:07:03,506 --> 00:07:07,636 because I got one of the best photographers, Steve Wayda, 168 00:07:07,677 --> 00:07:10,137 who has been shooting for "Playboy" for a long time. 169 00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:13,060 He does lovely stuff, and he was happy to shoot me. 170 00:07:13,099 --> 00:07:17,729 Now in my test shoot, I had beautiful stuff, very sexy. 171 00:07:17,771 --> 00:07:21,231 And then they decided, let’s have her eating pizza, 172 00:07:21,274 --> 00:07:22,864 let’s have her jumping up and down. 173 00:07:22,901 --> 00:07:24,991 It was just comical. It was almost character-ish. 174 00:07:25,028 --> 00:07:26,778 But that’s what "Playboy," 175 00:07:26,821 --> 00:07:29,161 you know, they wanted to portray. 176 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:31,449 They want it to be the way they wanted it. 177 00:07:31,493 --> 00:07:35,663 They had me on electrical cords on one of the shots. 178 00:07:35,705 --> 00:07:37,365 -I don’t know if you saw that. -Yeah. I saw that one. 179 00:07:37,415 --> 00:07:39,495 It was not typical "Playboy." 180 00:07:39,501 --> 00:07:42,211 I didn’t think that it was soft-looking. 181 00:07:42,253 --> 00:07:44,173 I didn’t think it was pretty. 182 00:07:44,214 --> 00:07:48,014 Like, it almost looked like kind of S&M. 183 00:07:48,051 --> 00:07:49,591 That’s not someone you look at 184 00:07:49,636 --> 00:07:52,216 and you put on a pedestal and you admire. 185 00:07:52,263 --> 00:07:54,393 You just have sex with that person. 186 00:07:54,432 --> 00:07:56,142 Would they have done that to a white woman? 187 00:07:56,184 --> 00:07:57,064 No. 188 00:07:57,102 --> 00:07:58,732 -No? -Mnh-mnh. 189 00:07:58,770 --> 00:08:01,060 Because some of the girls I see, they weren’t models. 190 00:08:01,106 --> 00:08:04,856 They were just very plain, and they made ’em look like, 191 00:08:04,901 --> 00:08:07,321 I mean, just outstanding, beautiful. 192 00:08:07,404 --> 00:08:10,454 So, if you have to have that standard of beauty, 193 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:12,700 then how come you don’t show that standard of beauty 194 00:08:12,701 --> 00:08:14,541 with an ethnic woman? 195 00:08:14,577 --> 00:08:16,827 After you pose for "Playboy," especially if you are 196 00:08:16,871 --> 00:08:19,621 a Playmate of the Month or a Playmate of the Year, 197 00:08:19,666 --> 00:08:23,456 you’re asked to come back and kind of host events... 198 00:08:23,461 --> 00:08:24,751 -Yes. -...or be seen. 199 00:08:24,796 --> 00:08:26,546 What was your experience like 200 00:08:26,589 --> 00:08:30,009 as opposed to the other women that you saw? 201 00:08:30,051 --> 00:08:32,221 After you do your pictorial, 202 00:08:32,262 --> 00:08:34,472 then they have almost like a Playboy agency. 203 00:08:34,514 --> 00:08:37,314 So, the girls get work as a model, 204 00:08:37,350 --> 00:08:39,730 but the opportunities weren’t the same. 205 00:08:39,769 --> 00:08:41,979 There were certain jobs that didn’t happen. 206 00:08:42,022 --> 00:08:45,322 We got accused of little things that happened on the set. 207 00:08:45,358 --> 00:08:46,938 I remember one particular incident. 208 00:08:46,985 --> 00:08:49,075 I got accused of taking something. 209 00:08:49,112 --> 00:08:51,412 I really don’t need to steal shoes like that, you know? 210 00:08:51,448 --> 00:08:53,868 You were accused of stealing shoes... 211 00:08:53,908 --> 00:08:55,078 -Yes, on a set. -...at a photo shoot? 212 00:08:55,118 --> 00:08:56,698 Yes. And they would go, 213 00:08:56,745 --> 00:08:59,965 "Don’t hire Elan because Elan stole shoes," 214 00:08:59,998 --> 00:09:01,958 and when they finally told me, I go, 215 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,420 "What are you talking about?" ’Cause I didn’t even know. 216 00:09:04,461 --> 00:09:07,131 There are some of the younger Playmates that are Black 217 00:09:07,172 --> 00:09:08,972 that I’ve met recently. 218 00:09:09,007 --> 00:09:10,877 And I’ve asked them, I said, "Well, how was your experience? 219 00:09:10,925 --> 00:09:13,505 Because you guys were in the early 2000s. I was in the ’90s." 220 00:09:13,553 --> 00:09:16,563 And they didn’t have anything great to say. 221 00:09:16,598 --> 00:09:18,768 They just said, "You know, I was just there." 222 00:09:18,808 --> 00:09:21,058 But they still didn’t get the opportunities 223 00:09:21,102 --> 00:09:23,022 to take their career to the next level. 224 00:09:23,063 --> 00:09:25,982 What was your experience like at the Mansion? 225 00:09:25,982 --> 00:09:27,692 I had a good experience. 226 00:09:27,734 --> 00:09:29,904 That’s because I wasn’t 227 00:09:29,944 --> 00:09:33,364 the standard...type that Hef liked, 228 00:09:33,406 --> 00:09:35,366 ’cause he liked the, you know, 229 00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:37,658 young, all-American blonde girls. 230 00:09:37,702 --> 00:09:39,412 I mean, if you think about it, 231 00:09:39,454 --> 00:09:42,374 a lot of the Playmates lived at the Playboy Mansion. 232 00:09:42,415 --> 00:09:45,455 Can you name one Black Playmate who’s ever stayed there? 233 00:09:45,502 --> 00:09:49,962 And I remember a friend of his that I became very close to 234 00:09:50,006 --> 00:09:51,546 had made a comment like 235 00:09:51,591 --> 00:09:53,971 he wasn’t interested in dating the Black Playmates. 236 00:09:54,010 --> 00:09:55,800 I was like, well, I don’t care because I’m not 237 00:09:55,845 --> 00:09:57,555 interested in dating him either. [laughing] 238 00:09:57,597 --> 00:10:01,927 Did Black women fit Playboy’s standard of beauty? 239 00:10:01,976 --> 00:10:04,436 No. 240 00:10:04,479 --> 00:10:07,359 I think politically they tried to do the right thing, 241 00:10:07,398 --> 00:10:10,608 but once you got in there, they just was like, 242 00:10:10,652 --> 00:10:13,492 "Okay, we did what we were supposed to do." 243 00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:15,490 I think they should have had more Hispanic girls, 244 00:10:15,532 --> 00:10:17,702 more Asian girls. 245 00:10:17,742 --> 00:10:20,292 I think they should have had more ethnic girls, period, 246 00:10:20,328 --> 00:10:21,998 even on the cover. 247 00:10:22,038 --> 00:10:24,248 I think they had, like, La Toya Jackson on the cover, 248 00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:26,630 but she’s a Jackson, so a Black woman 249 00:10:26,668 --> 00:10:30,298 had to be really famous to get on the cover of "Playboy." 250 00:10:30,338 --> 00:10:32,128 Let me put it like this. 251 00:10:32,173 --> 00:10:35,301 Most of the Black women that you see in "Playboy" 252 00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:37,431 are usually a certain type-- 253 00:10:37,470 --> 00:10:41,180 someone who’s lighter-skinned, someone who has long hair, 254 00:10:41,224 --> 00:10:43,934 someone with more European features. 255 00:10:43,977 --> 00:10:45,937 You don’t see Afrocentric. 256 00:10:45,979 --> 00:10:47,609 And because of that, 257 00:10:47,647 --> 00:10:50,357 I think that it didn’t define us as Black women. 258 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,320 And I don’t think that Hef was against it. 259 00:10:54,404 --> 00:10:56,914 I think it was the people that were running the company. 260 00:10:56,948 --> 00:11:00,448 I think that there were so many chiefs 261 00:11:00,493 --> 00:11:03,583 that were deciding what the standard of beauty 262 00:11:03,621 --> 00:11:05,251 was for "Playboy." 263 00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:11,338 Ellen Stohl was in a serious car accident 264 00:11:11,379 --> 00:11:13,419 when she was just 18. 265 00:11:13,464 --> 00:11:16,054 The crash left her paralyzed from the neck down. 266 00:11:16,092 --> 00:11:18,052 With the help of therapy, 267 00:11:18,094 --> 00:11:20,354 Ellen recovered the use of her upper body, 268 00:11:20,388 --> 00:11:24,928 but she was now labeled as a person with a disability. 269 00:11:24,976 --> 00:11:27,306 So for Ellen, showing off her body 270 00:11:27,353 --> 00:11:30,823 was the ultimate way to reclaim her sexuality. 271 00:11:30,857 --> 00:11:32,187 ♪ 272 00:11:35,612 --> 00:11:38,742 Do you remember the first time you ever saw "Playboy" Magazine? 273 00:11:38,781 --> 00:11:40,031 Uh, yes. 274 00:11:40,074 --> 00:11:41,704 How old were you? What did you think? 275 00:11:41,743 --> 00:11:44,333 Let me see. I was probably, uh, 276 00:11:44,370 --> 00:11:46,750 in second, third grade, 277 00:11:46,789 --> 00:11:49,329 and I just thought, you know, the women were beautiful. 278 00:11:49,375 --> 00:11:51,625 You know, makeup is beautiful. Their bodies are beautiful. 279 00:11:51,669 --> 00:11:53,459 And I really saw "Playboy" 280 00:11:53,504 --> 00:11:55,804 as more artistic than sexualized. 281 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,140 Um, I’m sure, you know, at 8, 282 00:11:59,177 --> 00:12:00,887 we don’t know much about sexuality, 283 00:12:00,929 --> 00:12:03,679 but we do know about what looks beautiful, 284 00:12:03,765 --> 00:12:06,025 and--and to me, it just was beautiful. 285 00:12:06,059 --> 00:12:07,689 So... 286 00:12:07,727 --> 00:12:11,437 fast forward to the time in 1985. 287 00:12:11,481 --> 00:12:13,321 -What caused the accident? -It was a car accident. 288 00:12:13,358 --> 00:12:15,358 Uh, first rain of the season, and I was taking, 289 00:12:15,401 --> 00:12:19,361 uh, the 57 southbound to the 91 westbound, 290 00:12:19,405 --> 00:12:20,905 and it’s a nice curve. 291 00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:22,739 -Mm-hmm. -Um, at 18, 292 00:12:22,742 --> 00:12:25,662 you don’t pay attention to the little yellow signs 293 00:12:25,662 --> 00:12:28,962 that say 45 miles an hour. I was probably taking it 50, 60. 294 00:12:28,998 --> 00:12:30,828 But when I came around the curve, 295 00:12:30,875 --> 00:12:33,455 I hit the oil that had come up on the road on the first rain, 296 00:12:33,503 --> 00:12:35,303 and my car hydroplaned. 297 00:12:35,338 --> 00:12:37,588 ♪ 298 00:12:37,632 --> 00:12:39,722 And then it slid off to the shoulder, 299 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:41,259 and it flipped on its side, 300 00:12:41,302 --> 00:12:43,142 and it rolled three or four times, 301 00:12:43,179 --> 00:12:45,179 and then it was airborne ’cause there’s a big gully there. 302 00:12:45,223 --> 00:12:46,773 And when it was airborne, 303 00:12:46,808 --> 00:12:48,138 I came out through where the windshield had been. 304 00:12:48,142 --> 00:12:50,942 I landed on the left side of my head, 305 00:12:50,979 --> 00:12:52,649 and I broke my neck in five places 306 00:12:52,689 --> 00:12:55,229 and both my collarbones. 307 00:12:55,275 --> 00:12:57,575 They thought that I was probably gonna be DOA. 308 00:12:57,610 --> 00:12:59,450 They didn’t think I was gonna survive. 309 00:12:59,487 --> 00:13:02,157 It was devastating. You don’t know the damage at the time. 310 00:13:02,198 --> 00:13:05,278 You just know the pain and that something’s not right, 311 00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:06,906 until I woke up in that emergency room. 312 00:13:06,953 --> 00:13:09,753 ♪ 313 00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:11,329 There’s a doctor running 314 00:13:11,374 --> 00:13:12,884 what looks like a pizza cutter up my leg to say, 315 00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:14,707 "Can you feel this? Can you feel this?" 316 00:13:14,752 --> 00:13:16,502 And I’m like, "I don’t know what you’re talking about." 317 00:13:16,546 --> 00:13:17,956 And the woman standing next to me-- 318 00:13:18,006 --> 00:13:19,336 I didn’t even recognize her-- is like, 319 00:13:19,382 --> 00:13:21,092 "She doesn’t know. She doesn’t know." 320 00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:23,394 And the doctor’s like, "You have to tell her, or I will." 321 00:13:23,428 --> 00:13:25,808 [voice breaking] And that’s when my mom reached down... 322 00:13:25,847 --> 00:13:27,517 touched my face, said, "You’re paralyzed. 323 00:13:27,557 --> 00:13:29,177 Honey, you’ve broken your neck." 324 00:13:29,225 --> 00:13:32,185 ♪ 325 00:13:32,228 --> 00:13:34,098 And that is the moment 326 00:13:34,147 --> 00:13:37,107 that I felt like my life was over... 327 00:13:37,984 --> 00:13:40,694 ...and that I would never have the things that I wanted. 328 00:13:40,737 --> 00:13:44,237 So, it was--it was devastating in that moment, 329 00:13:44,324 --> 00:13:48,704 because of that bias about what life could be. 330 00:13:48,745 --> 00:13:51,415 This idea of who I could be and what I was 331 00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:53,246 came into my head, and I thought, 332 00:13:53,291 --> 00:13:55,081 "I’m never gonna get married. I’m never gonna have kids. 333 00:13:55,126 --> 00:13:56,626 I’m never gonna have sex." 334 00:13:56,669 --> 00:13:59,709 And it was devastating. I mean, I wanted to die. 335 00:13:59,756 --> 00:14:02,336 ♪ 336 00:14:02,342 --> 00:14:05,142 I refused a blood transfusion, and my mom said, 337 00:14:05,178 --> 00:14:08,178 "You’re gonna die," and I said, "I want to." 338 00:14:08,222 --> 00:14:10,642 And my mom was like, "Please, you can’t." 339 00:14:10,725 --> 00:14:15,865 And I actually hated my mom for the next six months. 340 00:14:15,897 --> 00:14:20,277 Every time it was hard to move, to function, I blamed her. 341 00:14:20,318 --> 00:14:21,938 Like, I had wanted to die, 342 00:14:21,986 --> 00:14:25,776 and she was like, "Not gonna happen. Not on my watch." 343 00:14:25,823 --> 00:14:27,783 And so I was angry at her. 344 00:14:27,825 --> 00:14:31,745 And yet she said, "This isn’t the end." 345 00:14:31,788 --> 00:14:35,538 No. She said, "You will go on, and you will do it well." 346 00:14:35,583 --> 00:14:37,593 -And you have. -Yeah. [laughs] 347 00:14:37,627 --> 00:14:40,877 -And you have. [laughs] -Yep. It’s been amazing. 348 00:14:40,963 --> 00:14:44,433 Ellen, in 1985, you wrote to Hugh Hefner 349 00:14:44,467 --> 00:14:47,507 that you wanted to be in "Playboy." 350 00:14:47,553 --> 00:14:49,643 Why? What was the goal? 351 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,470 I came back out into the world, 352 00:14:51,516 --> 00:14:55,846 and what I realized is the world never saw me as a woman anymore. 353 00:14:55,895 --> 00:14:57,345 They saw me as a disabled person. 354 00:14:57,397 --> 00:14:59,397 And so I thought, wow, you know, 355 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,190 what would be the best way to-- to sort of 356 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:07,776 meet those social, stereotypical ideas of what a woman is 357 00:15:07,782 --> 00:15:09,872 without being a triumph over tragedy story? 358 00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:11,539 I did not want to be, 359 00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:13,497 "Oh, look, yay for her." 360 00:15:13,538 --> 00:15:15,998 I thought, well, "Playboy." "Playboy" seemed like 361 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,380 the best venue to sort of break that barrier, 362 00:15:19,419 --> 00:15:22,249 and at the same moment of breaking that barrier, 363 00:15:22,296 --> 00:15:25,716 this idea of the perfect woman, that "Playboy" can be charged 364 00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:29,218 with creating this unrealistic idea of perfection. 365 00:15:29,262 --> 00:15:32,472 Well, I fit the criteria of the "Playboy" model-- 366 00:15:32,515 --> 00:15:34,895 blonde, blue-eyed, big boobs, 367 00:15:34,934 --> 00:15:37,354 but I happen to be in a wheelchair. 368 00:15:37,395 --> 00:15:39,985 So, I wrote Hef a letter. 369 00:15:40,022 --> 00:15:43,112 "Dear Mr. Hefner, my name is Ellen Stohl. 370 00:15:43,151 --> 00:15:45,901 I’m a model-actress who, three years ago, 371 00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:48,655 was injured in an auto accident. 372 00:15:48,698 --> 00:15:50,618 The reason I chose "Playboy" for this endeavor 373 00:15:50,658 --> 00:15:52,828 is that sexuality is the hardest thing 374 00:15:52,869 --> 00:15:55,409 for disabled persons to hold onto. 375 00:15:55,455 --> 00:15:57,005 This is not to say they’re not capable, 376 00:15:57,039 --> 00:16:00,079 but rather that society’s emphasis on perfection 377 00:16:00,126 --> 00:16:03,046 puts a definite damper on self-esteem. 378 00:16:03,087 --> 00:16:07,087 Well, I believe it’s time to show society the real story. 379 00:16:07,133 --> 00:16:08,973 Anyone can be sexy. 380 00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:12,510 It’s a matter of how a person feels about himself or herself, 381 00:16:12,555 --> 00:16:15,275 and personally, I feel great." 382 00:16:15,308 --> 00:16:16,978 [laughter] 383 00:16:17,018 --> 00:16:21,018 When you actually posed for the magazine, 384 00:16:21,022 --> 00:16:22,652 were you terrified? 385 00:16:22,690 --> 00:16:24,780 That’s very funny. When they called me and asked me 386 00:16:24,817 --> 00:16:26,897 to come in for test shots, I’m like, "What do I wear?" 387 00:16:26,944 --> 00:16:28,994 [laughter] 388 00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:31,370 They’re like, "Nothing." 389 00:16:31,407 --> 00:16:33,947 And I will say my photographer, my makeup artist, 390 00:16:33,993 --> 00:16:36,503 everybody I worked with was so amazing, and, you know, 391 00:16:36,537 --> 00:16:39,367 I have a huge scar across my butt from the injury. 392 00:16:39,415 --> 00:16:42,325 And they helped me be comfortable with my body, 393 00:16:42,376 --> 00:16:46,006 positioning my body, and that came through. 394 00:16:46,047 --> 00:16:49,587 So, there was a year’s worth of discussion within Playboy... 395 00:16:49,634 --> 00:16:51,304 -Yes. -...about whether or not 396 00:16:51,344 --> 00:16:53,184 they should publish the pictures you already shot. 397 00:16:53,221 --> 00:16:56,221 -Yes. -Because they don’t wanna seem 398 00:16:56,265 --> 00:17:00,845 as if they’re taking advantage of you for publicity. 399 00:17:00,895 --> 00:17:02,695 Did you hear about this? 400 00:17:02,730 --> 00:17:04,690 And how--how did they tell you about that? 401 00:17:04,732 --> 00:17:06,192 Oh, they told me. [laughs] 402 00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:09,034 Because I posed and did all my shots in ’86. 403 00:17:09,070 --> 00:17:10,700 We didn’t publish till ’87. 404 00:17:10,738 --> 00:17:12,528 -It took a year. -What were they worried about? 405 00:17:12,573 --> 00:17:14,283 They were worried about exploitation. 406 00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:16,085 They didn’t go to you. You went to them. 407 00:17:16,118 --> 00:17:19,788 Yes, but they think society will look at it as exploitation. 408 00:17:19,830 --> 00:17:20,750 "We’re exploiting this." 409 00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:22,540 ♪ 410 00:17:22,542 --> 00:17:25,422 Publishers were absolutely against it. 411 00:17:25,461 --> 00:17:29,551 They did not want it to be seen as exploitation. 412 00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:32,510 And Hef just said, "No, this is important. 413 00:17:32,552 --> 00:17:35,432 She came to us, and I believe in her story," 414 00:17:35,471 --> 00:17:37,261 and I think he felt so strongly about it, 415 00:17:37,306 --> 00:17:38,966 he went against the publishers. 416 00:17:39,016 --> 00:17:41,936 He said, "This is important. We’re doing it." 417 00:17:41,978 --> 00:17:44,098 But it did take a year of controversy for them 418 00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:46,936 to feel comfortable enough to publish. 419 00:17:46,983 --> 00:17:49,113 Playboy was focusing on me as a woman. 420 00:17:49,151 --> 00:17:52,861 They were not exploiting me. They were including me. 421 00:17:52,905 --> 00:17:57,785 So, you waited a year. That issue hits the stands. 422 00:17:59,036 --> 00:18:01,706 You don’t know what pictures they’re gonna choose. 423 00:18:01,747 --> 00:18:04,117 You don’t know how you’re gonna look, 424 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:06,916 and you don’t know how people are gonna react. 425 00:18:06,961 --> 00:18:08,711 Were you scared? 426 00:18:08,754 --> 00:18:11,594 I was... 427 00:18:11,632 --> 00:18:13,592 I was scared to death. 428 00:18:18,973 --> 00:18:21,063 This was the "Playboy" Magazine that came out. It was amazing. 429 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:24,140 I was on page 69, which I always find ironic. 430 00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:28,480 Um, my butt was my least favorite 431 00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:31,148 because I have a huge scar that’s like a half moon shape 432 00:18:31,235 --> 00:18:33,105 across one half of one butt cheek 433 00:18:33,154 --> 00:18:34,989 and the whole other butt cheek. 434 00:18:34,989 --> 00:18:38,989 So this picture sort of ups my hip and rounds my butt, 435 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:41,286 and I love it. I love this photo. 436 00:18:41,329 --> 00:18:43,999 It’s one of my favorites. 437 00:18:44,081 --> 00:18:46,791 So, the issue finally comes out, 438 00:18:46,834 --> 00:18:50,094 and what did you see 439 00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:53,629 was the immediate reaction to those photos? 440 00:18:53,674 --> 00:18:56,344 It was chaos. Into the--out of the fire, into the frying pan. 441 00:18:56,344 --> 00:18:57,764 People are camping out at my door 442 00:18:57,803 --> 00:18:59,263 to get pictures of me. [laughs] 443 00:18:59,305 --> 00:19:02,775 I had to share my body in front of people, 444 00:19:02,808 --> 00:19:05,348 and I wasn’t even confident in my body. 445 00:19:05,436 --> 00:19:07,855 Ellen Stohl, who’s the first person with a disability 446 00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:10,015 to pose in "Playboy," 447 00:19:10,024 --> 00:19:13,444 Talk about breaking the barriers of what is sexy. 448 00:19:13,527 --> 00:19:14,947 We are not seen as men and women. 449 00:19:14,987 --> 00:19:16,607 We are seen as disabled people, 450 00:19:16,656 --> 00:19:18,616 and that’s a very small definition 451 00:19:18,658 --> 00:19:20,828 of who a human being is. 452 00:19:20,868 --> 00:19:23,328 Ellen Stohl is in this, the July issue of "Playboy." 453 00:19:23,371 --> 00:19:25,661 You want to see some of the pictures? 454 00:19:25,665 --> 00:19:27,625 -Yeah, sure. Yeah. -[laughter] 455 00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:30,544 -What has the reaction been? -Groups all over, 456 00:19:30,544 --> 00:19:32,844 a lot of disabled groups have said 457 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,715 "You’ve finally broken a barrier, 458 00:19:34,715 --> 00:19:37,545 that people need to see us as people, not as a disability." 459 00:19:37,635 --> 00:19:39,805 REPORTER: Her actions have forced many to view handicapped 460 00:19:39,887 --> 00:19:41,217 in a whole different light 461 00:19:41,305 --> 00:19:43,965 and make society sit up and take notice. 462 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,519 GUERRERO: Everybody that is a boundary breaker 463 00:19:48,562 --> 00:19:50,732 faces some kind of backlash. 464 00:19:50,815 --> 00:19:55,035 Did you feel like because you broke this boundary, 465 00:19:55,069 --> 00:20:01,489 you were the focus of criticism from some corners? 466 00:20:01,534 --> 00:20:03,411 Oh, absolutely. I mean, there are some people that were like, 467 00:20:03,411 --> 00:20:05,251 "Well, she’s just Barbie doll in a wheelchair, 468 00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:07,915 so it doesn’t really--it’s not really breaking the barriers 469 00:20:07,915 --> 00:20:09,575 because she looks like a Playmate." 470 00:20:09,667 --> 00:20:12,337 I’m like, well, okay. Wouldn’t it be wrong for "Playboy" 471 00:20:12,378 --> 00:20:14,548 to put somebody with an impairment 472 00:20:14,588 --> 00:20:16,257 in their magazine that didn’t look like 473 00:20:16,257 --> 00:20:18,257 the standard "Playboy" model? 474 00:20:18,342 --> 00:20:19,592 You know, I met the standards, 475 00:20:19,677 --> 00:20:21,387 and I happened to have an impairment. 476 00:20:21,429 --> 00:20:23,389 So, there was a faction of people with impairments 477 00:20:23,431 --> 00:20:27,271 that felt like it wasn’t enough to change attitudes, 478 00:20:27,351 --> 00:20:29,731 but, you know, it takes one step at a time. 479 00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:31,610 You can’t just bowl over and-- 480 00:20:31,689 --> 00:20:33,689 and, you know, shift the narrative. 481 00:20:33,733 --> 00:20:38,863 Playboy was great about not letting the negative reach me. 482 00:20:38,904 --> 00:20:40,864 I know that there were people that wrote nasty letters 483 00:20:40,865 --> 00:20:43,285 to "Playboy," but they never made it my way. 484 00:20:43,367 --> 00:20:45,237 -They shielded you. -They shielded me. 485 00:20:45,286 --> 00:20:49,286 They wanted to support my voice and my mission. 486 00:20:49,373 --> 00:20:53,127 So, I-I feel like it had 487 00:20:53,127 --> 00:20:54,957 the impact that I wanted it to have. 488 00:20:55,087 --> 00:20:57,047 There was a little bit of controversy 489 00:20:57,089 --> 00:21:00,719 about that photo shoot because the chair 490 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,300 wasn’t really in the pictures. 491 00:21:03,304 --> 00:21:04,764 I think at one point, 492 00:21:04,805 --> 00:21:06,595 you could kind of see the chair in a corner, 493 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,730 but the wheelchair wasn’t a part of that pictorial. 494 00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:12,150 It was part of my candids. 495 00:21:12,229 --> 00:21:14,649 They had shots of me in my chair, 496 00:21:14,732 --> 00:21:16,317 in my life, in my candids. 497 00:21:16,317 --> 00:21:19,107 And for me, the whole reason I was doing the shoot 498 00:21:19,153 --> 00:21:22,823 was to focus on the fact that I was a woman first and foremost, 499 00:21:22,907 --> 00:21:25,987 who used a wheelchair, so, consciously on my part, 500 00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:28,826 yes, it was distancing from the chair in the nudes, 501 00:21:28,913 --> 00:21:31,832 in the sexuality part, but it was very clear 502 00:21:31,832 --> 00:21:33,832 in the candid shots in the pictorial, 503 00:21:33,834 --> 00:21:35,174 that I was a wheelchair user. 504 00:21:35,252 --> 00:21:37,922 In my PR, I’m-- I’m in a wheelchair. 505 00:21:37,963 --> 00:21:40,513 I don’t sit, you know, in a different chair 506 00:21:40,591 --> 00:21:42,341 to hide the fact that I’m in a wheelchair. 507 00:21:42,343 --> 00:21:44,678 I am in a wheelchair, but I’m also a woman, 508 00:21:44,678 --> 00:21:47,508 and that was the focus of the article. 509 00:21:48,849 --> 00:21:52,309 Did you feel then that you were breaking 510 00:21:52,353 --> 00:21:54,688 that standard of beauty by posing? 511 00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:58,608 Absolutely. I met the standard of beauty on one criteria, 512 00:21:58,651 --> 00:22:02,111 but another criteria, I was not even in the ballpark, 513 00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:05,032 and yet I brought it into the ballpark, 514 00:22:05,032 --> 00:22:06,662 and I shattered the idea 515 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,040 that there is a perfect ideal of beauty. 516 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,539 People don’t have to be perfect to be beautiful and sexy. 517 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:14,370 ♪ 518 00:22:14,375 --> 00:22:17,295 Sometimes people have preconceived notions about you 519 00:22:17,336 --> 00:22:19,956 based on being in a wheelchair. 520 00:22:20,047 --> 00:22:22,877 One of them is that people in wheelchairs don’t have sex. 521 00:22:22,967 --> 00:22:28,305 You were a virgin when you had your accident at 18. 522 00:22:28,305 --> 00:22:32,175 Had you been able to have sex after your accident? 523 00:22:32,226 --> 00:22:33,976 Yes. [laughs] I have a daughter, so... 524 00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:36,397 -[laughter] -Sex, and I had a pregnancy, 525 00:22:36,397 --> 00:22:38,187 which I didn’t think I could have, um, and, yes, 526 00:22:38,232 --> 00:22:40,401 I had natural birth, so, uh, all of that, 527 00:22:40,401 --> 00:22:42,821 people just assume that you can’t have-- 528 00:22:42,862 --> 00:22:44,652 I mean, I would go to bars, and before people 529 00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:46,487 would buy me a drink, they’d be like, 530 00:22:46,532 --> 00:22:48,872 "Can you have sex?" I’m like, okay. [laughs] 531 00:22:48,909 --> 00:22:51,579 -Wait. A man would ask you that? -Yes. Oh, yes. 532 00:22:51,579 --> 00:22:53,909 When you have an impairment, and it’s visible, 533 00:22:53,914 --> 00:22:55,916 people think that they can ask you anything. 534 00:22:55,916 --> 00:22:57,536 I’ve been asked if I can have sex 535 00:22:57,585 --> 00:23:00,087 in a grocery store buying peas by other women. 536 00:23:00,087 --> 00:23:01,587 Like, "But can you have sex?" 537 00:23:01,589 --> 00:23:03,879 "Uh, yes, yes, I can. Thank you very much, 538 00:23:03,924 --> 00:23:05,844 but I’m just trying to buy groceries here." 539 00:23:05,926 --> 00:23:08,176 Do we have to communicate more to have sex? 540 00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:09,680 Because my body works differently 541 00:23:09,722 --> 00:23:11,392 than what you see in the media? 542 00:23:11,432 --> 00:23:15,192 Because sex is not rose petals and orchestra music 543 00:23:15,227 --> 00:23:16,767 and what we portray in the media being, 544 00:23:16,854 --> 00:23:19,024 "Whoa, so beautiful!" 545 00:23:19,064 --> 00:23:21,114 And if it’s good sex, it’s messy and dirty, 546 00:23:21,191 --> 00:23:22,781 and you have to communicate. 547 00:23:22,860 --> 00:23:26,906 You have to actually deal with the differences 548 00:23:26,906 --> 00:23:28,946 and then find out how you can come together 549 00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:31,869 to, you know, to give pleasure to each partner. 550 00:23:31,911 --> 00:23:36,421 When you’re in a wheelchair, people think you have no agency, 551 00:23:36,457 --> 00:23:38,626 that you certainly can’t be a parent or a professional, 552 00:23:38,626 --> 00:23:42,876 that you are weak, you need to be taken care of. 553 00:23:42,922 --> 00:23:44,592 There is the assumption that somehow, 554 00:23:44,632 --> 00:23:47,132 because my legs don’t work, my brain don’t work, 555 00:23:47,134 --> 00:23:48,474 even that my hearing doesn’t work. 556 00:23:48,552 --> 00:23:50,392 People will talk to me louder. 557 00:23:50,429 --> 00:23:53,807 They will talk to me slower. They will pat me on the head. 558 00:23:53,807 --> 00:23:56,137 They will ask my partner what I want to eat. 559 00:23:56,143 --> 00:24:00,273 They will refer to people with me instead of talking to me. 560 00:24:00,314 --> 00:24:03,234 I am a person first and foremost. 561 00:24:03,275 --> 00:24:05,985 I have sexual desire. I have values. 562 00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:09,450 I have interests. I have dreams. I have goals. 563 00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:11,490 Just because I’m in a wheelchair doesn’t mean 564 00:24:11,492 --> 00:24:13,452 I can’t be a person with a full life. 565 00:24:13,494 --> 00:24:16,294 It doesn’t mean I can’t pose for "Playboy." 566 00:24:16,330 --> 00:24:19,170 ♪ 567 00:24:22,628 --> 00:24:26,418 Inès Rau is not the typical Playmate 568 00:24:26,465 --> 00:24:28,585 "Playboy" readers are used to. 569 00:24:28,634 --> 00:24:31,974 At just 14 years old, Inès began her journey, 570 00:24:32,012 --> 00:24:34,181 transitioning from male to female, 571 00:24:34,181 --> 00:24:37,811 and completed gender reassignment surgery at 17. 572 00:24:37,851 --> 00:24:41,521 In 2017, when Inès was 26 years old, 573 00:24:41,647 --> 00:24:45,187 she was handpicked by Hugh Hefner to grace the pages 574 00:24:45,275 --> 00:24:48,525 as the magazine’s first transgender Playmate. 575 00:24:48,612 --> 00:24:50,362 It was a groundbreaking decisio 576 00:24:50,447 --> 00:24:55,037 that caused controversy for both "Playboy" and Inès. 577 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,789 -So good to meet you. -So excited. 578 00:24:58,831 --> 00:25:01,501 Really so excited to meet you. Thank you for having me. 579 00:25:01,542 --> 00:25:02,962 -You’re gorgeous. -Thank you. 580 00:25:03,002 --> 00:25:04,878 -Thank you for being here. -Merci beaucoup. 581 00:25:04,878 --> 00:25:08,168 Oh, my goodness. All right. Wow. 582 00:25:08,215 --> 00:25:10,375 I have so many questions to ask you, 583 00:25:10,467 --> 00:25:13,887 but I’m gonna jump in by asking you 584 00:25:13,971 --> 00:25:16,056 when was the very first time 585 00:25:16,056 --> 00:25:20,306 you remember ever seeing a "Playboy" Magazine? 586 00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:25,072 I think the first time I’ve seen "Playboy" covers 587 00:25:25,149 --> 00:25:29,149 were when I was, like, about 15, 14 years old, 588 00:25:29,194 --> 00:25:32,364 and I was really amazed 589 00:25:32,406 --> 00:25:37,406 by how beautiful "womens" were looking on the covers. 590 00:25:37,494 --> 00:25:40,748 And when I saw these "womens," I was, like, 591 00:25:40,748 --> 00:25:43,578 super happy and inspired and mesmerized. 592 00:25:43,667 --> 00:25:48,917 But in the same time, I felt stuck to my male form. 593 00:25:49,048 --> 00:25:51,838 I knew my soul was the soul of a woman, 594 00:25:51,884 --> 00:25:54,894 and I didn’t know it was possible to be a trans person 595 00:25:54,928 --> 00:25:57,928 and to change your gender. 596 00:25:57,931 --> 00:26:00,351 So, you started hormone therapy at 14. 597 00:26:00,392 --> 00:26:02,186 -Mm-hmm. -By 17 and a half, 598 00:26:02,186 --> 00:26:04,346 you actually had reassignment surgery. 599 00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:07,226 -Exactly. Yeah. -What was that like for you? 600 00:26:07,274 --> 00:26:09,364 I would love to even do it again, 601 00:26:09,401 --> 00:26:12,781 how the transformative journey was so powerful, 602 00:26:12,863 --> 00:26:15,783 to transform like a butterfly... 603 00:26:15,783 --> 00:26:17,618 ♪ 604 00:26:17,618 --> 00:26:20,746 ...and just, like, to witness the-- 605 00:26:20,746 --> 00:26:24,866 how the body can heal and readapt, 606 00:26:24,917 --> 00:26:28,545 like, how my brain readapted to the new shape of my sex. 607 00:26:28,545 --> 00:26:29,955 It’s like I was born like this. 608 00:26:30,047 --> 00:26:31,917 It’s--It’s crazy. It’s fascinating. 609 00:26:31,965 --> 00:26:34,215 Was it painful? 610 00:26:34,259 --> 00:26:37,599 Yes, but a very short time, like, few days, yeah. 611 00:26:37,638 --> 00:26:39,558 And this is something that you had wanted to do for many years? 612 00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:43,058 Yeah. So when you’re young, you’re 17, you’re so strong 613 00:26:43,102 --> 00:26:46,652 and so determined, and you don’t care of the pain, you know? 614 00:26:46,730 --> 00:26:48,400 What was the reaction like 615 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,570 the first time you identified as transgender in public? 616 00:26:53,612 --> 00:26:56,490 It was--Well, first of all, back in the days, 617 00:26:56,490 --> 00:26:57,990 I was not telling anyone. 618 00:26:58,075 --> 00:26:59,835 ♪ 619 00:26:59,910 --> 00:27:03,660 I was petrified by people being mean to me or because-- 620 00:27:03,664 --> 00:27:06,166 -Transphobic or even violent. -Transphobic and everything. 621 00:27:06,166 --> 00:27:07,826 Exactly. So, I was like, you know what? 622 00:27:07,835 --> 00:27:09,595 I wanna protect myself. I’m not gonna tell anyone. 623 00:27:09,628 --> 00:27:13,338 You are really risking your own physical safety... 624 00:27:13,423 --> 00:27:15,593 -Yeah. -...to come out as transgender. 625 00:27:15,634 --> 00:27:16,764 Exactly. 626 00:27:16,802 --> 00:27:19,602 ♪ 627 00:27:24,017 --> 00:27:27,437 So, this is actually, I think, one of my favorite pictures. 628 00:27:27,479 --> 00:27:30,519 When I see this picture, you know what I see? 629 00:27:30,607 --> 00:27:33,987 It’s not even about the beauty or whatever. I see respect. 630 00:27:34,027 --> 00:27:36,357 I see how "Playboy" respected me, 631 00:27:36,363 --> 00:27:38,783 how they wanted the pictures to be so chic, 632 00:27:38,824 --> 00:27:44,164 so fashion, so Parisian, French, sophisticated, elegant. 633 00:27:44,204 --> 00:27:46,294 I never saw pictures like-- 634 00:27:46,331 --> 00:27:47,961 a picture like this in "Playboy." 635 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,377 ♪ 636 00:27:50,377 --> 00:27:51,997 Back in the days, I was scared of saying 637 00:27:52,045 --> 00:27:53,335 that I was a trans woman, 638 00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:55,720 but I realized that this is who you are 639 00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:57,549 and there is nothing to be ashamed of, 640 00:27:57,551 --> 00:27:59,391 and it’s so sexy, actually, 641 00:27:59,469 --> 00:28:00,889 Now--now I think it’s very sexy and powerful, 642 00:28:00,971 --> 00:28:02,389 but back in the days, 643 00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:04,057 I was scared of being rejected, you know. 644 00:28:04,057 --> 00:28:07,387 And then I hear trans stories and everything, 645 00:28:07,477 --> 00:28:11,147 and I was like, well, actually, this is a bit sad for me to be 646 00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:14,400 that beautiful and feminine and powerful and happy 647 00:28:14,401 --> 00:28:16,361 and not be able to share that story 648 00:28:16,403 --> 00:28:18,238 and to hide it for the rest of my life. 649 00:28:18,238 --> 00:28:21,318 And one day, a little tipsy, I had to say 650 00:28:21,408 --> 00:28:24,738 that I was trans to someone gay, like-- 651 00:28:24,745 --> 00:28:26,505 -Oh, I’m sure -The sisterhood thing. 652 00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:28,328 Like, "Well, by the way, I’m trans, 653 00:28:28,373 --> 00:28:30,713 but don’t tell anyone," and that person-- 654 00:28:30,751 --> 00:28:32,921 [scoffs] Of course everybody’s gonna tell everyone. 655 00:28:33,003 --> 00:28:34,753 -Everybody in New York knew it. -Of course. 656 00:28:34,755 --> 00:28:38,225 And then Bruce Weber and Barneys 657 00:28:38,258 --> 00:28:40,388 heard of my story, and they’re like, 658 00:28:40,427 --> 00:28:43,557 "We know about your story. I think you should come out, 659 00:28:43,597 --> 00:28:46,097 and we would like you to do a Barneys campaign with us 660 00:28:46,183 --> 00:28:47,893 shot by Bruce Weber." 661 00:28:47,935 --> 00:28:50,445 GUERRERO: Did you want to be a model right away? 662 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,770 I didn’t "wanted" to be a model at all. 663 00:28:52,773 --> 00:28:54,273 I didn’t think that I could be a model. 664 00:28:54,274 --> 00:28:57,944 It all happened so... "surprise-ly," you know? 665 00:28:57,945 --> 00:29:00,205 What was the feedback? 666 00:29:00,239 --> 00:29:06,787 The feedback was really amazing because then Playboy in 2014 667 00:29:06,787 --> 00:29:08,705 heard about that story on models.com 668 00:29:08,705 --> 00:29:11,875 and the Barneys campaign with Bruce Weber, 669 00:29:11,917 --> 00:29:13,287 and they’re like, "Actually, 670 00:29:13,377 --> 00:29:16,087 we’re doing an ’A’ to ’Z’ special edition." 671 00:29:16,129 --> 00:29:17,549 -You heard about it? -Yes. 672 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:19,759 "And we would like to photograph you, uh, 673 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,387 as our very first trans in the magazine." 674 00:29:23,387 --> 00:29:25,305 But it was just two page with an interview. 675 00:29:25,305 --> 00:29:27,055 GUERRERO: You were "E"--"Evolution." 676 00:29:27,099 --> 00:29:28,599 INÈS: Exactly, "Evolution." 677 00:29:28,642 --> 00:29:31,982 But I-I would never think that one day 678 00:29:32,062 --> 00:29:35,442 Playboy will contact me again to be a Playmate. 679 00:29:35,482 --> 00:29:39,987 So, in 2017, when Hugh Hefner 680 00:29:39,987 --> 00:29:42,657 and Cooper Hefner talked about it, 681 00:29:42,739 --> 00:29:46,789 and they remember I did that 2014 spread, 682 00:29:46,827 --> 00:29:48,237 and they was like, "Maybe we should have 683 00:29:48,328 --> 00:29:50,748 a trans woman in ’Playboy.’" 684 00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:56,669 ♪ 685 00:29:56,753 --> 00:29:58,593 One thing that really surprises me, 686 00:29:58,630 --> 00:30:01,008 and I really loved about Playboy and that I realized 687 00:30:01,008 --> 00:30:03,128 that they really wanted to break boundaries, 688 00:30:03,176 --> 00:30:06,636 and they want to be part of a society 689 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,310 that evolves mentally 690 00:30:08,348 --> 00:30:10,848 and to raise the state of consciousness 691 00:30:10,851 --> 00:30:14,191 because they were really more excited of the outcome 692 00:30:14,271 --> 00:30:18,321 and, um, groundbreaking situation 693 00:30:18,358 --> 00:30:21,528 about being a trans woman in "Playboy" 694 00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:24,321 than the picture of being sexy or whatever. 695 00:30:24,364 --> 00:30:27,834 They were really genuinely involved 696 00:30:27,868 --> 00:30:31,038 in the empowerment of that decision. 697 00:30:31,038 --> 00:30:33,288 All of it was a positive experience. 698 00:30:33,332 --> 00:30:36,842 -Extremely positive, yeah. -Until what happened? 699 00:30:36,877 --> 00:30:41,047 When the pictures got out on Playboy’s Instagram, 700 00:30:41,048 --> 00:30:45,385 which was a month or two months after Hugh Hefner died, 701 00:30:45,385 --> 00:30:47,465 people, they were not taking it. 702 00:30:47,512 --> 00:30:49,642 They were like, "This is disgusting. 703 00:30:49,681 --> 00:30:52,225 She is horrible. That’s a man. 704 00:30:52,225 --> 00:30:53,845 This is the devil," and everything. 705 00:30:53,894 --> 00:30:57,064 And I was not ready for this. I was shocked. 706 00:30:57,064 --> 00:31:00,024 What hurts me the most when I received 707 00:31:00,067 --> 00:31:02,357 transphobic comments is that a lot of people think 708 00:31:02,402 --> 00:31:05,152 that I’m something that is gonna make their kids 709 00:31:05,197 --> 00:31:07,737 perverts or whatever, what I represent, 710 00:31:07,824 --> 00:31:10,077 when I love kids so much and I... 711 00:31:10,077 --> 00:31:12,537 there is nothing--because, you know, I’m not a mother, 712 00:31:12,579 --> 00:31:14,039 I would love to be a mother. 713 00:31:14,081 --> 00:31:16,921 I cannot carry kids, but I will adopt. 714 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,586 But I have a big maternal instinct. 715 00:31:19,586 --> 00:31:22,086 I love kids so much. I want to protect them. 716 00:31:22,089 --> 00:31:27,089 So, you know what? They will never make me feel... 717 00:31:27,094 --> 00:31:28,554 bad about what I am, 718 00:31:28,595 --> 00:31:30,425 ’cause I think what I am is beautiful, 719 00:31:30,430 --> 00:31:31,510 is powerful, 720 00:31:31,556 --> 00:31:34,556 it’s sexy, it’s strong. 721 00:31:34,601 --> 00:31:36,101 And it hurts me to know 722 00:31:36,103 --> 00:31:38,271 that so much people hate us. 723 00:31:38,271 --> 00:31:39,861 [horn blaring, crowd cheering] 724 00:31:39,898 --> 00:31:42,028 It shows that it’s very dangerous 725 00:31:42,067 --> 00:31:45,946 to be a trans person in America. -It is. 726 00:31:45,946 --> 00:31:47,776 -That’s the thing. -In certain states, it... 727 00:31:47,864 --> 00:31:49,244 -In certain states. -It really is. 728 00:31:49,282 --> 00:31:51,952 So, this is not a joke. This is crazy. 729 00:31:52,035 --> 00:31:54,865 GUERRERO: Have you ever felt threatened? 730 00:31:54,913 --> 00:31:59,083 I received a lot of threats for the--when "Playboys" got out. 731 00:31:59,126 --> 00:32:00,786 -You received physical threats? -Death threats. Oh, yes. 732 00:32:00,877 --> 00:32:03,547 -Death threats? -Oh, yes, a lot. 733 00:32:03,547 --> 00:32:07,717 ♪ 734 00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:12,929 A trans journey-- it’s a very lonely journey. 735 00:32:12,973 --> 00:32:14,603 ♪ 736 00:32:14,641 --> 00:32:16,811 And I feel like transphobia is rising up. 737 00:32:16,893 --> 00:32:19,233 I don’t want to think about that, but I do think 738 00:32:19,271 --> 00:32:22,816 that at some point there’s gonna be, like, these extremists. 739 00:32:22,816 --> 00:32:24,726 [indistinct shouting] 740 00:32:24,776 --> 00:32:26,646 These transphobic people. 741 00:32:26,653 --> 00:32:28,655 Who would one day think that trans people 742 00:32:28,655 --> 00:32:32,275 is one of the most evil thing that’s happening in this planet 743 00:32:32,325 --> 00:32:34,825 and would be a good thing to kill them? 744 00:32:36,496 --> 00:32:41,826 I wouldn’t be surprised. People would kill me if they could. 745 00:32:41,835 --> 00:32:44,671 There are some people who would literally kill me. 746 00:32:44,671 --> 00:32:47,511 ♪ 747 00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:54,510 ♪ 748 00:32:54,514 --> 00:32:58,852 Ellen, Elan and Inès, you are all beautiful women, 749 00:32:58,852 --> 00:33:04,942 but you are not the prototypical type of woman 750 00:33:04,983 --> 00:33:06,693 that "Playboy" is famous 751 00:33:06,776 --> 00:33:10,356 or infamous for showing on its pages. 752 00:33:10,489 --> 00:33:14,949 "Playboy" isn’t just a message to men about idealized beauty. 753 00:33:14,993 --> 00:33:17,037 -It’s a message to young girls. -ELAN: Mm-hmm. 754 00:33:17,037 --> 00:33:19,327 The first time I saw "Playboy," I was little. 755 00:33:19,372 --> 00:33:21,172 My dad was at a barbershop. 756 00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:22,998 It’s the first time I ever saw a naked lady, 757 00:33:23,043 --> 00:33:24,793 and I thought, wow, this is what 758 00:33:24,836 --> 00:33:27,126 ladies are supposed to look like. 759 00:33:27,172 --> 00:33:29,882 And it was a white, blonde woman. 760 00:33:29,883 --> 00:33:35,303 And what has this said over time to women of our generation, 761 00:33:35,347 --> 00:33:38,217 but also to young women today? 762 00:33:38,225 --> 00:33:42,195 It absolutely distorts their ideas of what is beauty, 763 00:33:42,229 --> 00:33:44,359 what is acceptable, what is desirable, 764 00:33:44,397 --> 00:33:46,977 and it results in depression and anxiety. 765 00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:49,395 And that’s why it is so important 766 00:33:49,402 --> 00:33:52,492 that diversity is-- is in the industry. 767 00:33:52,531 --> 00:33:55,241 ♪ 768 00:33:55,325 --> 00:33:57,875 INÈS: Playboy, for a long time, kind of, like, 769 00:33:57,911 --> 00:34:00,871 decided and shaped what was sexy or not. 770 00:34:00,914 --> 00:34:03,544 So, to have a disabled person in "Playboy," 771 00:34:03,583 --> 00:34:04,923 to have a trans woman in "Playboy," 772 00:34:05,001 --> 00:34:07,381 to have a woman in color in "Playboy" 773 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:12,550 really helped to open people to different kinds of beauty, 774 00:34:12,592 --> 00:34:14,261 which is diversity. 775 00:34:14,261 --> 00:34:18,098 However, nowadays, in 2023, we don’t give a [bleep] 776 00:34:18,098 --> 00:34:21,268 of what "Playboy" would decide of who’s sexy or who’s not. 777 00:34:21,268 --> 00:34:24,228 I think the era of "Playboy" is a bit over. 778 00:34:24,271 --> 00:34:25,861 As iconic as it is, 779 00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:31,187 I think it’s a bit part of the past, you know? 780 00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:34,696 First of all, the growth of our culture, 781 00:34:34,739 --> 00:34:36,949 that we are feeling like there’s different 782 00:34:37,033 --> 00:34:38,583 standards of beauty, 783 00:34:38,618 --> 00:34:42,618 we’re seeing now curvier women being celebrated, 784 00:34:42,706 --> 00:34:45,036 curvier women walking down the runways 785 00:34:45,083 --> 00:34:48,461 and being featured in magazines as well. 786 00:34:48,461 --> 00:34:50,131 We saw a Down Syndrome model 787 00:34:50,213 --> 00:34:53,473 for the first time walk in Victoria’s Secret recently. 788 00:34:53,550 --> 00:34:56,260 So, there are different standards of beauty now, 789 00:34:56,303 --> 00:34:58,473 and--and part of it is because of what you’ve done. 790 00:34:58,555 --> 00:35:00,645 And you’ve got to take a little credit for that... 791 00:35:00,724 --> 00:35:02,142 -Yeah. -...I would think, 792 00:35:02,142 --> 00:35:03,482 or a lot of credit for it. -Mm-hmm. 793 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,270 You know, it’s always been Hef’s magazine. 794 00:35:06,313 --> 00:35:10,073 It’s always been Hef’s idealized version of women. 795 00:35:10,108 --> 00:35:13,568 And what all three of you have done is push back against that, 796 00:35:13,612 --> 00:35:15,488 saying, "I’m allowed to be sexy, too." 797 00:35:15,488 --> 00:35:17,988 -Yes. -That’s not his ideal, you know? 798 00:35:17,991 --> 00:35:20,911 Well, and he, like, idolized Marilyn Monroe. 799 00:35:20,952 --> 00:35:23,582 He loved who she was, her image. 800 00:35:23,622 --> 00:35:26,499 So, I think that that’s what he had in his mind. 801 00:35:26,499 --> 00:35:28,749 So, he wanted all the girls to represent 802 00:35:28,793 --> 00:35:30,587 and be like a Marilyn Monroe type. 803 00:35:30,587 --> 00:35:32,127 Yeah, but that-- 804 00:35:32,172 --> 00:35:34,507 he’s very much a creature of his generation. 805 00:35:34,507 --> 00:35:36,297 -Mm-hmm. -Right? 806 00:35:36,343 --> 00:35:39,012 ’Cause he is a white male from a certain generation... 807 00:35:39,012 --> 00:35:41,142 -Yes. -...that saw that 808 00:35:41,181 --> 00:35:44,851 as the ideal beauty, Marilyn Monroe. 809 00:35:44,934 --> 00:35:49,314 And I think he was probably pulled along as time went on 810 00:35:49,356 --> 00:35:51,516 through the civil rights era, 811 00:35:51,524 --> 00:35:54,194 through, you know, women’s liberation. 812 00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:55,987 -And, you know, certainly... -The ’70s, the ’60s. 813 00:35:56,029 --> 00:35:58,319 ...you were the last person that he approved to be... 814 00:35:58,365 --> 00:35:59,866 Yeah, I’m the last real Playmate. 815 00:35:59,866 --> 00:36:01,446 -...a Playmate. -Yes. 816 00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:03,123 -Yeah. -Started with Marilyn... 817 00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:05,001 -Wow. -...and you were the last one. 818 00:36:05,038 --> 00:36:06,498 Oh, my God, stop. I’m gonna cry. That’s amazing. 819 00:36:06,539 --> 00:36:08,329 I didn’t-- never thought about that. 820 00:36:08,375 --> 00:36:10,465 I mean, that’s quite an evolution. 821 00:36:10,502 --> 00:36:13,172 -Yes. -Yeah. 822 00:36:13,213 --> 00:36:15,973 He did have his image and his ideas, 823 00:36:16,049 --> 00:36:18,679 but he was at least open to expanding... 824 00:36:18,718 --> 00:36:20,218 -Yes. -...to including, and he-- 825 00:36:20,220 --> 00:36:22,560 -Oh, yes, completely. -He, you know, 826 00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:25,058 we pushed back, but he let us in. 827 00:36:25,058 --> 00:36:27,018 -Yes. -Right? If he hadn’t let us in, 828 00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:29,230 if he hadn’t approved-- I mean, he had to fight for me 829 00:36:29,312 --> 00:36:31,562 to be in the magazine. The publishers were like, 830 00:36:31,564 --> 00:36:34,067 "Do not put her in the magazine." 831 00:36:34,067 --> 00:36:36,567 And he put his foot down and said no. 832 00:36:36,569 --> 00:36:39,859 He may have evolved a little bit, but ultimately, 833 00:36:39,906 --> 00:36:42,826 when you think of "Playboy," you think of Pamela Anderson... 834 00:36:42,867 --> 00:36:44,827 -Yes. -...Jenny McCarthy, the blondes. 835 00:36:44,869 --> 00:36:46,249 -Yes. -You were not that. 836 00:36:46,329 --> 00:36:47,659 Right. 837 00:36:47,706 --> 00:36:51,416 You were "allowed" to be a Playmate. 838 00:36:51,418 --> 00:36:53,998 However, there were very few 839 00:36:54,045 --> 00:36:56,415 African American Playmates, period. 840 00:36:56,506 --> 00:36:59,086 There were very few Latina Playmates... 841 00:36:59,175 --> 00:37:00,255 -Mm-hmm. -...period. 842 00:37:00,343 --> 00:37:01,428 -Mm. -There were very few 843 00:37:01,428 --> 00:37:04,178 Asian Playmates period. 844 00:37:04,222 --> 00:37:05,598 Our country was changing, 845 00:37:05,598 --> 00:37:07,058 but that was not reflected in "Playboy." 846 00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:07,930 -Yeah, mm-hmm. -It certainly was not. 847 00:37:08,017 --> 00:37:09,436 -Yeah. -Yes. 848 00:37:09,436 --> 00:37:10,936 You know, there was a little bit of it. 849 00:37:10,937 --> 00:37:12,857 -It took time. -It was a sprinkle. 850 00:37:12,897 --> 00:37:15,107 Can you talk about, though, how that must have felt for you? 851 00:37:15,108 --> 00:37:17,738 Because you were a Playmate. You were very visible. 852 00:37:17,777 --> 00:37:20,197 You were at the Mansion, and yet, you know, 853 00:37:20,238 --> 00:37:23,118 there were just a handful of Black Playmates. 854 00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:26,199 Did you feel like you were a token in that way? 855 00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:28,624 I don’t feel like that I was a token. 856 00:37:28,705 --> 00:37:30,755 I just felt like they tried to portray 857 00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:32,920 what they thought was standard beauty, 858 00:37:32,959 --> 00:37:35,379 not capture what was beauty for me. 859 00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:37,797 So they said, "Oh, okay, well, she’s ethnic, 860 00:37:37,797 --> 00:37:39,717 and we want that ethnic audience, 861 00:37:39,758 --> 00:37:42,128 so we want to portray her this way 862 00:37:42,135 --> 00:37:45,555 because this is what Black girls are supposed to look like. 863 00:37:45,597 --> 00:37:47,467 This is what they want to look like." 864 00:37:47,557 --> 00:37:51,227 They already were setting the sub--subliminal messages 865 00:37:51,227 --> 00:37:53,937 of what--"This is what you should look like," 866 00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:59,070 not the soft, beautiful, desirable woman, right? 867 00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:01,240 This is one of my "Playboy" pictures, 868 00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,779 which I think I look pretty in the picture, 869 00:38:03,823 --> 00:38:06,623 but it’s very erotic. [laughs] 870 00:38:06,659 --> 00:38:09,789 It looks like I’m doing something else. 871 00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:11,289 You know what that looks like? 872 00:38:11,331 --> 00:38:13,171 Of course we know what that looks like. 873 00:38:13,249 --> 00:38:16,839 That just goes back to the tone of my pictures. 874 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,340 If it was me today, I would have been like, "I’m not doing that." 875 00:38:26,346 --> 00:38:31,426 ♪ 876 00:38:31,476 --> 00:38:35,056 Okay. So there is this notion that "Playboy" uses women 877 00:38:35,104 --> 00:38:37,064 to make money for the organization, 878 00:38:37,106 --> 00:38:40,316 to make money for Hugh Hefner or the Hefner family, 879 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,490 to create this image that this is the ideal woman. 880 00:38:43,530 --> 00:38:47,530 I would say that the women on this stage 881 00:38:47,575 --> 00:38:49,695 were able to use "Playboy"... -Used "Playboy," yeah. 882 00:38:49,744 --> 00:38:52,044 ...for another purpose. 883 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,420 It was a symbiotic relationship. We both got something out of it. 884 00:38:54,457 --> 00:38:57,877 I...for me, I definitely used them as a vehicle 885 00:38:57,919 --> 00:39:01,379 to tell my story through print, and it was in many countries 886 00:39:01,422 --> 00:39:04,132 I was able to give a voice like, you can still be beautiful, 887 00:39:04,175 --> 00:39:05,755 you can still be sexy, 888 00:39:05,802 --> 00:39:10,182 you can still have power and passion and live fully 889 00:39:10,223 --> 00:39:13,683 regardless of the package that you come in. 890 00:39:15,353 --> 00:39:17,863 You know, I’ll say this from my personal experience. 891 00:39:17,897 --> 00:39:19,817 I was 40 when I posed for the cover. 892 00:39:19,858 --> 00:39:22,608 I had been a sportscaster for a long time. 893 00:39:22,652 --> 00:39:26,322 People were very upset that I posed for "Playboy" 894 00:39:26,364 --> 00:39:28,534 at 40, as a Latina, 895 00:39:28,575 --> 00:39:30,995 as a former sportscaster on "Monday Night Football." 896 00:39:31,035 --> 00:39:33,155 That was really shocking at the time. 897 00:39:33,204 --> 00:39:35,044 I was very strategic, though. 898 00:39:35,081 --> 00:39:37,461 I posed for "Playboy" because I knew that it would 899 00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:39,630 provide a platform for me to get the next job 900 00:39:39,669 --> 00:39:44,169 and for me to make a statement about my age and being Latina. 901 00:39:44,215 --> 00:39:46,005 ♪ 902 00:39:46,050 --> 00:39:48,390 I know a lot of people say, "I have no regrets. 903 00:39:48,428 --> 00:39:50,298 I’m glad I posed in ’Playboy.’" 904 00:39:50,346 --> 00:39:51,886 Do you ever think about that? 905 00:39:51,931 --> 00:39:53,391 -Do you ever have regrets... -I... 906 00:39:53,433 --> 00:39:54,933 ...about aligning yourself with "Playboy"? 907 00:39:54,976 --> 00:39:57,306 I do, because my career was taking off, 908 00:39:57,353 --> 00:40:00,563 and I think that it would have gone further in the direction 909 00:40:00,648 --> 00:40:04,068 I wanted to go if I hadn’t done it at that time, 910 00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:05,780 because I was booked, like, 911 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:08,030 a year in advance from my modeling agency. 912 00:40:08,072 --> 00:40:10,452 But my work faltered because my agent found out 913 00:40:10,491 --> 00:40:13,661 I did "Playboy," and I got blackballed. 914 00:40:13,703 --> 00:40:16,043 So I should have waited to do it later. 915 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,666 And that’s the thing I think people don’t realize. 916 00:40:18,666 --> 00:40:20,836 Once you’ve posed for "Playboy," 917 00:40:20,877 --> 00:40:24,547 you are forever connected to that brand, to that magazine, 918 00:40:24,589 --> 00:40:28,679 and to whatever those readers think of when they see you 919 00:40:28,718 --> 00:40:30,138 or think of you. -Mm-hmm. True. 920 00:40:30,178 --> 00:40:32,138 So, Ellen, how do you feel about that? 921 00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:35,266 I do not regret having to pose for "Playboy." 922 00:40:35,266 --> 00:40:37,596 Um, I think when I am viewed as the first woman 923 00:40:37,644 --> 00:40:39,564 with a disability to pose for "Playboy," 924 00:40:39,604 --> 00:40:41,114 it’s still mind-shattering. 925 00:40:41,147 --> 00:40:43,687 They look at me as having used the magazine 926 00:40:43,733 --> 00:40:47,323 to advance and advocate for individuals with disabilities. 927 00:40:47,362 --> 00:40:49,952 So I’m always gonna be seen as a trailblazer. 928 00:40:49,989 --> 00:40:52,119 I do not regret posing for "Playboy." 929 00:40:52,158 --> 00:40:55,408 I regret that I had to pose for "Playboy" to be seen as a woman. 930 00:40:55,453 --> 00:40:57,083 -To deliver your message. -Right? 931 00:40:57,121 --> 00:40:59,331 Because such a significant part of our population 932 00:40:59,374 --> 00:41:03,844 is left out of the mainstream, the sense of belonging 933 00:41:03,878 --> 00:41:06,878 because of such narrow views of what beauty 934 00:41:06,923 --> 00:41:08,883 and what is acceptable in-- in society. 935 00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:11,555 And I can’t even imagine the transphobia and the-- 936 00:41:11,594 --> 00:41:14,314 the hate that you’ve got. -Goes beyond. 937 00:41:14,347 --> 00:41:15,557 I can’t even imagine. 938 00:41:15,598 --> 00:41:18,888 But still, I don’t regret it because 939 00:41:18,935 --> 00:41:20,485 it was so groundbreaking. 940 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,900 People don’t really see me as, like, the sexy girl 941 00:41:22,939 --> 00:41:28,569 posing for "Playboy," but, like, trailblazing, opening doors. 942 00:41:28,611 --> 00:41:32,531 It is more attached to what I’ve done with "Playboy." 943 00:41:32,573 --> 00:41:35,953 We all posed for "Playboy." 944 00:41:35,994 --> 00:41:38,044 You know, we have a similar experience, 945 00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:40,579 but we’re all so different in the way that we approached it. 946 00:41:40,623 --> 00:41:42,503 But one thing that is certainly in common 947 00:41:42,542 --> 00:41:45,292 with all three of you is that you have broken 948 00:41:45,336 --> 00:41:48,586 so many boundaries for other people to come later. 949 00:41:48,631 --> 00:41:50,591 And also, you’ve changed the way 950 00:41:50,633 --> 00:41:54,473 that readers of "Playboy" have viewed women 951 00:41:54,512 --> 00:41:58,812 in a sexy way, in a beautiful, feminine way. 952 00:41:58,850 --> 00:42:00,890 Obviously, "Playboy" isn’t around the same way, 953 00:42:00,935 --> 00:42:02,385 but it would have been interesting to know what 954 00:42:02,437 --> 00:42:03,847 the future would have been for "Playboy"... 955 00:42:03,896 --> 00:42:05,356 -Yes. -Mm. 956 00:42:05,398 --> 00:42:06,818 ...given the way that our society is going. 957 00:42:06,858 --> 00:42:08,188 And I think, you know, 958 00:42:08,234 --> 00:42:10,534 two steps forward, one step back. 959 00:42:10,570 --> 00:42:13,360 I mean, we’re obviously making ground in some places 960 00:42:13,448 --> 00:42:15,778 and losing ground in other places, 961 00:42:15,825 --> 00:42:18,045 but just the fact that we can have this discussion 962 00:42:18,077 --> 00:42:21,037 is a major step forward. -INÈS: It’s major. Yeah. 963 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,120 ♪ 964 00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:26,337 "Playboy" changed the way we view sexuality, 965 00:42:26,377 --> 00:42:28,457 and it did give a voice to the girl next door 966 00:42:28,504 --> 00:42:32,014 to be able to be sexual without being chained. 967 00:42:32,050 --> 00:42:35,590 And it did open the doors for a lot of diversity. 968 00:42:35,636 --> 00:42:38,636 Yes, we were sprinkled throughout the blonde-haired, 969 00:42:38,681 --> 00:42:40,351 blue-eyed majority, 970 00:42:40,391 --> 00:42:43,351 but those sprinkles had a ripple effect 971 00:42:43,394 --> 00:42:46,694 that is impacting the way people see beauty. 972 00:42:46,731 --> 00:42:51,531 ♪ 973 00:42:51,569 --> 00:42:54,109 Posing for "Playboy" allowed me to use it 974 00:42:54,155 --> 00:42:56,455 as a platform to springboard and make a difference 975 00:42:56,491 --> 00:42:58,621 in terms of equity and inclusion, 976 00:42:58,659 --> 00:43:00,659 especially for individuals with disabilities, 977 00:43:00,703 --> 00:43:04,623 but for all people of different shapes, colors, 978 00:43:04,665 --> 00:43:06,285 gender identities, et cetera. 979 00:43:06,334 --> 00:43:09,587 When one person from a marginalized group 980 00:43:09,587 --> 00:43:13,087 can make headway, it can open the floodgates 981 00:43:13,132 --> 00:43:15,472 for all individuals in marginalized groups. 982 00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:17,850 And that’s why we have to work together 983 00:43:17,929 --> 00:43:21,059 to create change for everybody.