I didn't think a regular girl could get in "Playboy."
I said, "You know, I am a cop." And she goes, "What?"
I said, "I'm a cop." She goes, "Where?"
I said, "NYPD."
Wearing my Air Force uniform was very empowering,
like a coat of armor.
When I put on the uniform, it gave me the strength
to be able to run down the street,
tackle a guy, arrest him, and lock him up.
I love this photo 'cause this is the, like, "I'm a badass.
I'm gonna, like, have amazing sex with you,
and then I'm going to whup your ass."
I didn't think posing for "Playboy" was a big deal,
but it blew up.
I never would have thought
it would get the attention it did.
They said, "We're opening an investigation on you."
I was like, "Ooh, an investigation. On what?"
It makes no sense. I didn't break the law.
I didn't commit a crime.
I was stripped of what was mine--
something that I earned,
something that I worked really hard to get.
And when something is wrongfully taken away from you,
it cuts deep.
[motor revving]
My name is Hugh Hefner.
I'm editor-publisher of "Playboy" magazine.
REPORTER: Playboy is one
of the most famous brand names in the world.
It was simply to include sex as
one natural part of a package for a male audience.
KARI ANN: When I made the choice to do "Playboy,"
I didn't realize all the choices that I was making
that came with that choice.
PITZULO: We don't judge the men for buying the "Playboy"s,
but we judge the women for posing for "Playboy."
JILL: I was never Jill anymore.
I was Jill that posed for "Playboy."
ASHLEY: I just gave in and knew that I was
probably gonna go to hell.
ZOE: It got to a certain point
where it wasn't fun anymore.
SONDRA: This process was very painful,
but I should be able to tell my story as I lived it.
♪
GUERRERO: In 1979,
"Playboy" featured its very first woman in uniform,
Army Specialist Colleen Donovan.
The spread was a hit, and the following year,
the magazine featured an entire pictorial
dedicated to women of the Armed Forces.
This time, the photos caused controversy.
Throughout the years,
"Playboy" continued to feature women in uniform
within its pages,
a decision that would alter the lives
of many of the women who posed forever.
♪♪
♪
Carol Shaya joined the NYPD
right out of college.
As a rookie, she had one of the toughest beats--
the Bronx's 42nd Precinct.
At home, Carol had just gotten married,
and the newlyweds decided, almost as a joke,
to send some recent photos of Carol to "Playboy" Magazine.
To her surprise, something that started out as a laugh
ended up changing her entire life.
-Hi. -Hello, Carol.
-Nice to meet you. -So nice to meet you.
-Pleasure. -Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
-Have a seat. -Thank you.
You're wearing your shield.
I am. I'm wearing--this one,
I think, is my dad, and this one is mine.
So, I'm 6140, and my dad was 614.
-Amazing. -Yeah.
Your father was a Port Authority officer.
Correct.
He was doing this job that was helping people,
protecting people. -Correct.
-Did you admire that? -I loved it.
I held my dad, like, to a very high standard.
He was, to me, special, and, you know,
I was kind of, like, Daddy's girl.
So, how did you become an NYPD officer?
I didn't know that I would become a cop in the future.
I thought I was going to be a criminal attorney.
And I was in St. John's University,
and they were like,
"Well, why don't you go to the police academy?
You're gonna get 68 credits," I think was the amount,
"and they're going to go towards your criminal justice degree."
And I said, that's a great idea.
So I went into the academy in 1990.
♪
Once I went into the police academy
and had that, like, experience, I was like, oh, I want to see
what it's really like on the street.
And then you become, yourself, a cop.
Right. In 1991, I became a police officer.
You were, at one point, patrolling
a very tough neighborhood.
Yeah, the South Bronx,
where I can honestly say it was culture shock.
Drugs on every corner, everywhere you looked.
It was crazy over there. Very dangerous.
How were you treated there by the guys that you worked with?
They were not against me,
but I felt the need to be stronger
and tougher than the way I looked.
Yeah, I would get looks, but it didn't bother me.
I was like, all right, that's cute. Whatever.
-You didn't feel uncomfortable? -No.
So, you were in the Bronx. Then what happened next?
I get married to another cop.
He was a sergeant, and we were going on our honeymoon.
So we went on this nice cruise, and we took these photos.
It was like me in a bikini and stuff like that.
So, when we got home,
and we looked at the pictures and everything,
he goes, "You should, like, model."
And I was like, "No, I can't model,"
and he's like, "Why not?"
I said, "To be a model, you need to be like, 5'11"."
He goes, "What about 'Playboy'?" I go, "'Playboy'?"
I mean, the women that were in "Playboy,"
come on, iconic women.
I looked at "Playboy" as
being the most amazing magazine to get in.
I didn't think a regular girl could get in "Playboy."
He goes, "Yeah, let me send them,
and let's see what happens."
When he sent those photos,
did he let "Playboy" know that you were an NYPD officer?
No. They didn't know.
It was less than a week.
The phone rings.
"Hi. This is Playboy Enterprises.
This is Marilyn Grabowski."
I'm like, "Is this for real?"
She goes, "Yes, we love your photos,
and I wanna know, would you be open to doing a test shoot?
We'll fly you to Chicago."
And I'm like, okay.
What goes through your mind
when you actually have to get naked for the camera?
I felt a little shy,
but "Playboy" had a funny way
of making you feel very comfortable.
I had a robe, and I was undressed so infrequently,
'cause most of the time they're doing things,
lighting, they have somebody else doing whatever.
And the makeup people, the camera people,
everybody is just so professional
that they're not even looking at you here.
They're talking to you.
After the test shoot,
I go back to Marilyn Grabowski's office,
and I sit in the chair,
and we start talking about the negotiation now.
I says, "Well, what do you guys pay?"
She goes, "Oh, we--"
at that time, it was, like, $20,000 or $30,000.
I said, "$20,000 or 30,000? That's it?"
I go, "No." I said, "That's not enough."
And she goes, "Why?" I said, "Well, I don't know."
I said, "You know, I am a cop." And she goes, "What?"
I said, "I'm a cop."
She goes, "Where?" I said, "NYPD."
She goes, "Do you have your badge on you?"
I go, "Yeah," and I go into my bag,
and I show her my badge, and she's like,
"Oh, okay. I'm gonna get back to you."
How much did you end up making in "Playboy"?
$100,000.
Wow.
So you went from $20,000 to $30,000 to $100,000?
-Correct. -Amazing.
So, they knew this was gonna be a very big story.
Yes, I guess they did, and I had no clue.
Did you ever tell anybody that you worked for,
a commanding officer or anybody,
that you were testing for "Playboy"?
No. A cop works outside of their job,
you have to file for off-duty employment.
I never said the word "Playboy."
-No. -Never.
But in my off-duty application, it did say, "Nude modeling."
And nobody said anything to you?
-No. Not at all. -No.
So, after the test shoot, I go back to work,
my normal life and everything, and then I get the call.
They said, "Do you want to pose in uniform or do you not?"
I go, "Oh, I'd love to." Like, I didn't even think of it.
And they said, "Okay, but we can't use your actual uniform.
We have to use, like, a replica."
I said, "Okay. I'm okay with that."
And I posed in "Playboy," August of 1994 on the cover.
"NYPD Nude--New York's Finest."
♪
I had a lot of fun during the photo shoot.
This one with the handcuffs-- I was proud of myself.
It didn't scare me.
I chose to come off this way.
I liked being a cop.
I was proud of it.
I wanted to announce it to the world.
So, you're not at all, at this point, worried about
what your commanding officer is gonna think?
-No, not at all. -No.
For me, I was like, all right, so what?
I posed nude for a magazine. Who cares? It's "Playboy."
Okay, so when the issue came out, what happened to you?
Oh, my God, it blew up. It blew up.
I never would have thought it would get the attention it did.
It was crazy.
♪
When the issue came out, what happened to you?
The media was relentless.
A lovely young officer named Carol Shaya
has posed nude in "Playboy,"
and that has the NYPD Blue seeing red.
I certainly don't think posing nude is right.
You're supposed to be a role model as a policewoman.
♪
She was one of New York's Finest,
but now the lady in blue is being blackballed
for flashing more than her badge in "Playboy" Magazine.
I'd go to work. There were news trucks
sitting in front of the precinct.
I'd be on patrol, and there was
news trucks following my police car.
Sorry, no comment.
[horns honking in distance]
So, now that is affecting my job,
and I'm like, "What are you guys doing, man?
I got to go to work."
I'm just gonna stop you for one minute...
-Yes. -...and say, if I had been
working in the New York media at that time,
I absolutely would have been following you...
-[laughs] -...down the sidewalk...
-Well, that's-- -...and trying to interview you.
That's what happened.
Meanwhile, your dad, a Port Authority cop...
Mm-hmm.
What did he think when you posed for "Playboy" as a cop?
Oh, he was not happy.
My father did not speak to me for six months after I posed.
He was proud when I became a cop.
At Madison Square Garden, when I had my ceremony,
he stood there so proud, like, his daughter's a cop like him.
So with me posing for "Playboy,"
he just couldn't wrap his head around it at the time.
You felt like you had disappointed your dad?
Yeah, I did. When my dad kinda turned his back on me,
it broke me.
He didn't want everybody and their mother
seeing his daughter naked.
♪
So, yeah, I understood.
In terms of your job, was there ever any clause anywhere
that says you cannot pose nude in "Playboy" Magazine?
No. Nothing like that.
You just have to abide by the rules and regulations
that everyone else has to abide in.
What about other cops? What did they say to you?
I can honestly say, to my face, not one bad comment.
Everyone I knew was fine,
but there were women that didn't stand beside me.
And the Policewomen Endowment is basically an organization
that helped support
the women's movement in the NYPD.
And they came after me, saying,
"We don't stand behind you, and we don't support you."
REPORTER: Lieutenant Karen Krizan,
who heads the Patrolwomen's Endowment Association,
says other female officers
are paying the price for Shaya's notoriety.
We have women that are out on foot posts,
that, um, civilians drive by in the cars and start either
screaming obscenities at them or ask them if they have, um,
in nice terms, I can say breasts that look like Carol's.
So, when they came after me, saying,
"Oh, you know, you posed for 'Playboy,'
and you got paid, and I go, hold on.
First of all, cops make nothing.
When I came out of the academy, my salary was $24,977.
It was nothing.
It was hard to get by, to be quite honest.
My intention was never to hurt females.
It was nice to show that female cops
could still be feminine and do a male job.
So, what happens next?
The NYPD put me on a departmental trial
because I posed nude for a magazine in uniform...
♪
...even though the uniform was a "replica."
I used the uniform for financial gain,
is what they claimed.
But the trial commissioner said,
"Police Officer Shaya followed the rules,
and we have no legal grounds to terminate her."
So, I got through the trial.
It was like, oh, it felt good to win,
but then one day the news is on, and all of a sudden, I hear,
you know, "Police Officer Carol Shaya
has been terminated from the NYPD."
I was like, what?
And that is how I found out I got fired.
♪
I was pissed.
I went through a pissed stage.
Then I went through a really sad stage,
like a grieving process.
I just lost a big part of me.
I overshadowed somebody who did not want to be overshadowed.
Bill Bratton, former Police Commissioner.
♪
He loved the media,
and here is some female cop getting more media than he did.
Being in the paper every week
and being on "Page Six" all the time,
it was bringing a lot of attention to me.
He was the one who was bothered.
So you thought that Bill Bratton was jealous of you?
100%.
He said that you monetized the NYPD uniform.
Meanwhile, he was under investigation
for ethics violations.
That's true. I remember that.
GUERRERO: Because he had just signed a book deal,
so he had profited
because of his relationship with the NYPD.
♪
Around the same time, there was a male NYPD officer
who posed for "Playgirl"... -Correct.
-...and he was not fired. -Correct.
It's as sexist as it can be.
I still feel like there's sexism in the NYPD.
I don't think that'll ever go away.
But it was a lot worse back when I was on the job.
And you know what? There's that double standard.
If a man can do whatever he wants outside of work,
why can't we?
So, you see how people are gonna think this is hypocritical.
Absolutely.
Men have done a lot worse.
They have committed crimes and not been terminated.
After I lost my job,
I was heartbroken because I loved my job.
I loved what I did. I could have stayed there my whole life.
I was so proud to be a police officer in the NYPD.
My oath was to protect and serve.
I had no idea that posing for "Playboy"
would take that away from me.
♪♪
And when something is wrongfully taken away from you,
it cuts deep.
Coming from a family with a strong military background,
Michelle Manhart enlisted in the Air Force
when she was just 16.
In her 14-year military career, Michelle served
in Germany and Kuwait before becoming a drill sergeant.
But when "Playboy" came to San Antonio looking for models
for an upcoming issue, Michelle answered their call.
-Hi, Michelle. -Hello. How are you?
-Good to meet you. -So good to meet you.
-Have a seat. -Thank you.
First of all, thank you for your service.
[laughs] Thanks.
You are a badass.
[laughs]
Only on Tuesdays. I just say only on Tuesdays.
I'm so excited to meet you.
-Thank you. -Um...
There's so many questions I have for you,
but the first thing I wanna ask you is
when was the first time you ever saw a "Playboy,"
and what did you think?
I do remember when I was 8,
I saw my first "Playboy,"
and I remember the women were so glamorous.
There was just this mystique about them
that was very beautiful.
It was like this odd dream of mine.
Like, it was this thought that I wanted to be in "Playboy,"
and I had said that day,
"I'm--I'm gonna do that someday." [chuckles]
You have had a really interesting life,
and your childhood was pretty difficult, I would say.
You ended up leaving home early.
Can you tell me what happened and--and why?
There were times that my mom and I
didn't get along very well,
and we had gotten into a very large fight at one point,
and so she "kicked me out,"
and I was forced to leave home.
And I was still a kid.
I look at it, and I'm like, oh, I was 14.
I didn't know that it was abnormal,
but I had a lot of support.
I had a really good friend at the time.
Her mom let me live there for a while.
♪
How did you end up this...girl, this teenager,
joining the military?
I was getting close to graduation,
and I had talked to a friend of mine,
and she was talking about joining the military.
I had a lot of family members that had already served,
and so I was like, ah, I'll go check this out.
A lot of the offices will show videos
or have photos on the wall,
and one of them was the basic training video
in the Air Force office.
I just remember seeing these people yelling at trainees,
and I just thought that, oh, my God, that's so fun.
You get to yell all day. I was like, I wanna do that.
What do I have to do to do that right there?
And the recruiter laughed at me and was like,
"Oh, you--you can't just do that, but you could do that."
And so it was like, mm, let me-- let me open this door for you.
But, like, I knew I needed something
to get my life on track, or I was going to,
who knows, end up where.
My mother signed her parental rights away,
releasing me to the military.
So, I went to graduation,
walked across the stage, got my diploma,
and literally left for the Air Force that day.
I would think that coming from a place
where you left home as a young girl
to having this opportunity to have a career,
to have a roof over your head, to have three meals a day,
must have been very appealing.
Oh, very much. But I just think the idea of the military
was very appealing to me.
-Yeah. The discipline of it. -Yes.
-Serving your country. -Yes.
So, eventually in your career,
you became a D.I., a drill instructor.
Mm-hmm. That was 2003.
What about being a drill instructor
appealed to you?
Just the idea of, like, shaping people,
being able to be a part of building something.
The Air Force is gonna continue, right?
We--We leave, it's gonna keep going,
but if you could become a part of it
and put your footstep in there and know that you made
a difference for somebody, you helped to change one life,
it makes you feel complete, or at least it does me.
And so I just loved it.
Best job I ever had.
At this point in your life, you'd been there for
over a decade in the Air Force. -Yeah.
You wanted to be there for 20 years.
-Yes. -At least.
100%. I felt so perfectly where I was supposed to be.
Then what happened with "Playboy"?
My husband was taking a, um, art class,
and he was talking about how they perceived nudity in "art."
And then we got on the topic of "Playboy,"
and later I got on my computer, and I typed in Playboy.com.
♪
Which I had never been to before.
And I was scrolling and looking at different things.
I had seen this area at the bottom
that was, like,
"Recruiting near you" or "Coming near you"
or something like that, and I clicked it.
It said that they were going to be in San Antonio, Texas,
the very next day.
-The next day? -Yes.
I knew this was meant to be.
So, I talked to my husband about it,
and he was like, "You should go."
♪
And so, what happened? You just show up?
I did. I just showed up.
First, they brought us into a room
and did, like, a typical interview.
Did they know at this point that you're in the Air Force?
I'm sure they did, because I remember we had to fill out,
you know, like, when you go to the doctor, you fill out this--
A form. "What do you do for a living?" kind--
Yes. Right. And then from there,
you went into a next room, and they're--
this room's filming, um, and they want you to be sensual,
and I'm not very good at that. [laughs]
Did they ask you to take your clothes off?
They did, and it was uncomfortable
because I'm very self-conscious naked.
-So, who was in the room? -The cameraperson.
There was a female asking questions,
and then there was one more,
and it was kind of, like, overwhelming 'cause, you know,
here I am, and I know it's real,
but at the same time, I'm like, is it?
Like, this is weird. I've never been asked to do this.
I was trying to be sensual and cute
and take off my clothes slowly on the couch,
and--and then I left. [laughs]
So, how long was it before you hear back from "Playboy"?
The same day.
-You heard back from "Playboy"... -I did.
...the day that you auditioned for them?
I did. I got a phone call, and they said, you know,
"We really like the way that you are on camera,
and, um, we want to talk to you
about doing an actual photo shoot."
And I was just like, "Yes. I don't care. Yes.
My answer's yes."
-So, "Playboy" sends a team... -They did.
-...to shoot you... -Right.
-...in San Antonio. -Correct.
They said they were shooting
for Employee of the Month.
Employee of the Month is just one photo,
and then it had some stats below it.
So, we shot for that, and then everything went back.
And as you know, Hef reviews everything.
And I got a phone call.
They said, "So, Hef reviewed your photos,
and he said there's too many great photos,
so he wants to give you an entire spread." [chuckles]
Wow.
I thought it was a joke. I literally told them,
"Ha ha, this is funny" on the phone.
And it wasn't a joke. It was very, very real.
At some point, did the alarm bells go off
for you in any of the documents you signed,
any of the rules you had to live by
by being in the Air Force?
Did you ever hear or have anyone say to you,
"You are not ever allowed to pose nude for a magazine?
Never. Never. Was there ever anything
that was ever said to me about that side.
My career was so important to me.
I would never even have taken the photos
if I thought it was taboo,
but when the magazine came out,
my whole life was flipped upside down.
Playboy said, "We wanna photograph you.
We're interested in putting you in the magazine."
Correct. They wanted to make a bigger feature.
What it was is they wanted to perceive
that women in the military can yell at people, fight wars,
serve their country honorably,
but when they come home at night,
they're women who wanna be treated like women.
So, they wanted to show that we do have
these two sides to us.
I get why Playboy would want that.
-Yeah. -So, you shoot?
-We spent a week shooting. -Good experience?
And it was awesome.
You know, a lot of different scenes and poses,
and everything was wonderful.
I love this photo 'cause it reminds me of, like,
this is the female human version of a praying mantis right here.
I'm gonna, like, have amazing sex with you,
and then I'm gonna whup your ass,
or maybe I'm gonna whup your ass and then have sex with you.
Either way, you're getting your ass whupped.
GUERRERO: The photos themselves, were you completely nude?
MICHELLE: In some, yes.
And then were there ever parts of your uniform
that were shown or anything in the nude photos?
No. When I was even partially dressed at all,
I was not wearing a uniform.
I didn't wear my hat and disrespect it.
But they featured you as an Air Force...
-Correct. -...drill sergeant.
-Right. -And, in fact,
didn't the Air Force provide some pictures of you
-Correct. -..to "Playboy"?
Yes.
"Playboy" wanted approval to use photos when I was serving.
And so those photos were checked off that,
yes, these are real. They're not fake, you know?
GUERRERO: The military approved these photos?
Mm-hmm. Yeah, these are real photos.
-These are not, like-- -For "Playboy"?
-Yeah. -So you actually told
your supervisor that you were going to pose for "Playboy"?
-Yes. -And they approved this?
Yes.
Wow.
I was never given
any idea that anything was going to be wrong with this.
There was no red flags.
So, but you're proud of the pictures?
-Yes. -You're excited about it.
My spread was called "Tough Love."
-"Tough Love." -Yeah.
And my issue of "Playboy" came out in February of 2007.
So, they sent me an early copy,
which I think is what they do most of the time.
I took that copy into my supervisor
to let him see it, and it went from there to his boss.
And I wasn't really given any thought
that anything was wrong,
but I just felt the air was weird.
Went in the next day, went to my supervisor,
and I, you know, asked, um,
"Hey, I left that magazine with you.
I just need to make sure I get it back."
And he said, "Okay, well,
we're having a discussion about it."
And by the end of the day,
my whole life was flipped upside down.
Later, they walked in,
told me that I needed to remove my campaign hat,
that I needed to, um, not report back to work.
I was gonna report to somewhere different.
Your bosses then make it very clear
that you're in big trouble.
They said, "We're opening an investigation on you."
-Ooh. -And I-I was like,
"Ooh, an investigation. On what? I've given you a previous copy.
I've told you everything. You were well aware of it.
What could you possibly investigate?"
I didn't know what was going on. They wouldn't tell me anything.
For the next, probably week, uh, no one would talk to me.
And that is when the magazine came out.
GUERRERO: Tell me about the reaction from the public.
MICHELLE: So, the public was actually very supportive.
Very supportive.
They were like, "this is awesome."
But to the bosses, this wasn't great.
It was like, "This is unacceptable.
This is unbecoming of-- of an NCO."
I-I guess something that I didn't think about
is how this would make other women
in the Air Force feel.
And one of them even said that, "She"--myself--
"has set women in the military back 200 years."
How did that make you feel, to hear that?
It hurt, because I thought I was doing something right.
My commander at the time was a female.
She said, "I was so proud of you,
and now I have lost all respect for you,"
and that probably hit me more than anything,
because she knows how passionate that I was for the military.
For her to say those things based off of a photograph,
that hit. That hit hard.
And then on the base that I was at, there were people,
you know, pointing, staring, talking, whispering.
And finally I found out from a friend
that everyone I worked with
was given a direct order not to speak to me.
♪
-So, you were shunned. -Oh, it was a horrible feeling.
And then after that,
they told me that their investigation was over,
and they were going to punish me under the UCMJ--
Uniform Code of Military Justice,
which is the laws that we must abide by
under the weight management section, and--
Wait, like you were overweight or underweight?
So the weight management program is all about, like,
"having a good appearance" for the military.
Nothing in there did I fall under. Nothing.
But because it was "not becoming of an NCO"
to look that way is how they were able to, like, use that.
So, I ended up not completing and finishing out
with the time, but I was enlisted.
They were just like, "We don't need you anymore."
-So, you were discharged? -Yes, honorably--
-Honorably discharged. -Yes.
But you were never allowed to wear your uniform again.
No.
Being discharged is something
I will never forget.
That was the hardest moment for me.
When you posed for "Playboy," you were honorably discharged...
-Yes. -...by the Air Force.
Correct. But I didn't break any rules.
I didn't do anything wrong.
Did I maybe upset some people? Yes.
From the time you are 16 years old, 17 years old,
the Air Force is your family.
-Right. -How painful was it
to lose your military family in this way?
Um, I went through a lot of emotions.
There's a special camaraderie that comes
with being in the military
because, you know at the end of the day,
when you're standing on that line,
they've got your back.
So, yeah, I miss the camaraderie.
I miss the family, but at the same time,
I was very angry because I fought
for our country and for the First Amendment right.
But I myself can't have that? That's unacceptable.
So I thought, the Air Force is no longer for me.
I felt betrayed.
I felt like I was being thrown away again, you know?
It was kind of like my childhood was coming back around.
Oh, I did something wrong, so just kick me out, you know?
My mom kicked me out. Now the Air Force kicks me out.
But I've given you 14 years of my life.
I've given you a lot of time that I missed out
with my children.
I've given you so much of my heart and soul,
and my body aches all the time
from all the stuff I've been through.
I felt unwanted, unneeded.
I felt again, I had no purpose.
I had nothing else.
That's all I knew.
I think at first
there was a grieving process,
you know, 'cause I've lost my identity.
I've lost who I was, and I had to become a new person.
But there were times, um, like on Veterans Day
when, um, my husband got to go speak to our child's school.
That was very tough
'cause I didn't get asked to come speak.
Even though I was still a veteran,
I didn't get asked to put my uniform on and come speak.
They asked him.
♪
Even now when I-- when I've gone to my--
both of my children have graduated basic training
and their tech schools--
going and not being in my uniform for them,
those are hard. Hard.
Those hit me the worst.
♪
Serving our country was a big honor.
I was very proud to be able to have that honor.
But then I was stripped of that honor.
I was stripped of what was mine,
something that was finally mine, something that I earned,
something that I worked really hard to get.
And it was stripped away from me because I posed in "Playboy."
♪
Carol and Michelle, before you posed for "Playboy,"
both of you were thriving in male-dominated fields.
You were a drill sergeant. You were a cop.
And both of you were fired or dismissed, essentially,
after having posed for "Playboy."
To me, it's infuriating to hear your stories.
Honestly, I feel furious for you.
CAROL: I felt like that for a long time.
I was angry for a really long time,
and I had a resentment in me.
I was bitter, and I think that came from a lot of hurt.
-How about you, Michelle? -I'm upset, of course,
at the end of the day that I didn't get to finish that goal
I set out to do-- that large, 20-year goal,
and in the long run, I guess I just now make smaller goals
so they're always obtainable.
That's sad to me. Like, why should you make smaller goals?
Right. I mean, you're-- you're--you are correct.
I'm sad that my career ended.
I would like it to have been different,
but I can't change the past.
You know, I always say, what did we do that was so wrong?
Maybe we got-- attracted too much attention.
Well, that attention also created a huge spotlight.
Do you think more women were made aware
of the potential of being a cop or in the Air Force
because of you posing and all the attention you got?
I know firsthand that's the case, because I--
-You were told that. -I was told it.
I got millions of phone calls back in the day.
I still get messages
and Facebook messages from people saying,
"Oh, I became a cop because of you.
I didn't think I could do it, but when I saw that you did it,
I felt empowered to do it." And I bet you,
you get a lot of messages like that.
Maybe they're not looking at joining the Air Force,
but they--I feel that my pictorial more
brought them to say, "Oh, I can go out
and be a tomboy and still..." -Right.
...you know, kind of a thing
instead of being held to this one standard.
I'm sure not one single woman decided not to be
in the Air Force because you posed nude.
-Is that fair to say? -I would say yes.
Yeah.
What does me or--or Carol getting naked in a magazine
have to do with whether or not we can do our jobs?
♪♪
My oath was not to not have a life
and not be able to be me,
to be a woman, to shelter myself.
My oath was to protect and serve.
What is me taking my clothes off
have to do with me being able
to protect and serve the community?
In your case, Michelle, you had spent
14 years doing this, and you loved your job.
The other members of the Air Force
felt like your family,
when you were coming from a place
where you didn't have a family, so I'm sure, if nothing else,
being fired, it was shocking.
-To say the least, yeah. -Yeah.
♪
I'll just say that I--
there were times I wasn't in a good place.
You know?
And typically when we leave the military,
there is a whole process that goes with leaving the military.
Even if you're kicked out,
let's say you committed a murder,
I did not receive that.
-Wow. -I was in the military one day,
and literally at 7 a.m.,
I got a phone call from my lawyer that said,
"Hey, guess what? You're no longer in the military."
So I'm just gonna say there were times
I was not in a good place.
♪
-We're gonna bring in a video... -CAROL: Okay.
-...that we wanna show you guys. -Oh.
And get your response to this...
-Okay. -...on the back end.
Melissa Williams still operates her OnlyFans page.
It's a popular website where people can post photos
and videos for their money-paying subscribers,
and the content is often sexual in nature.
Melissa Williams spent 28 years in law enforcement,
but away from work, she could be found
on her OnlyFans page wearing little and sometimes nothing.
Co-workers did find out and filed a complaint,
stating, "Lieutenant Williams' poor judgment
was a discredit to the Sheriff's Office."
Did you ever think about applying
for secondary employment from the Sheriff's Department?
No, because it was never started to make money.
It just happened to make money.
But rather than face an Internal Affairs investigation,
she agreed to a $30,000 release agreement to retire.
WILLIAMS: I did not leave out of shame.
It was the right thing for myself and my family.
This just happened recently.
-[sighs] -2021.
I am dying to know what the two of you
think about this story.
Let's start with you.
I can see in your face you have something to say.
[laughs] I'm, like, angry. Uh...
I just don't understand what she did wrong.
Something that was told to me, which I'm sure was told to you
and was told to her, is that,
"Oh, people aren't gonna respect you."
CAROL: Right.
"Oh, they've seen this other side of you."
[stammers] This frustrates me. Can you tell?
-[laughs] -A person can go out
on a Friday night and go home with five different people.
You're not getting in trouble for that.
I mean, we're--I don't understand where this line is
that, "Oh, this is wrong. Oh, well, because,
oh, people are gonna see you on that, and then they're--
you're gonna be in uniform, and they're gonna think,
"Oh, I don't have to listen to you beca--"
This shows that nothing has changed.
Carol, what did you think?
Now she's making money
and did not seek off-duty employment,
so the department used that to come after her.
Okay, so this gets to one of the things that frustrates me.
It seems like they are trying to find some clause...
-That's what they do. -...some rule that they broke
because they can't just say, "I think you're a slut."
Right.
They're not allowed to say that.
They can't fire you for that. So instead they say,
"Oh, she didn't fill out the proper form,
and she's making money doing this." Isn't that crazy?
-That's ridiculous. -It is crazy.
Like you said, they're finding,
you know, a string to pull at. -Right.
Because what if she sat at home
and made cups in her off-duty time,
and she sold those?
Would that be considered off-duty employment,
or is it just because it's of a sexual nature?
I think you're getting at something really interesting.
What I feel like is the center of this is the fact that
it's extremely upsetting for men in power
to see women using their sexuality to make money
online or in magazines.
But they don't have a problem looking at it.
-Who's looking at it? Men. -Men. [laughs]
Predominantly. I mean, now, everybody.
-Yeah. [laughs] -But, yes, double standards.
So many double standards, which we've been talking about...
-CAROL: Yeah. -...this entire episode.
And when I look at you, it makes me wonder,
the fact that you were in these male-dominated industries
and doing so well,
do you think that-- that kind of strikes fear
into men especially?
I'm not gonna say fear. I'm gonna say we intimidate them.
But then when this happened to us,
we had superior men that came in and said,
"Ha ha, you thought you were the 'A' dog.
Now I'm gonna come in and take over
and show you what it's really like."
Well, I wanna say that I appreciate you being here,
and I really appreciate you guys clearing up a lot of things.
And this is your opportunity, finally,
to say what is important that you leave behind today. Carol?
For me, honestly, it's just
I kind of feel like I turned the table
from cop to perpetrator when I posed for "Playboy."
Meanwhile, I risked my life.
I did so much for that job,
and I was proud of it,
and I never thought twice when I was risking my life.
But yet here I am kind of feeling like I'm being treated
like a perpetrator.
We've talked a lot about what happened to you in the Air Force
and what happened to that 14-year career.
What do you want people to know about you and your journey?
I want people to know that I'm not mad at the military
in the sense of I'm very proud that I was able to serve.
I am upset at the decisions
of those that were assigned above me.
If I was under, you know, a different area,
maybe the results would have been different.
♪
Wearing my uniform gave me a purpose
and made me real,
made me human, made me important.
I was very proud to be able to have that honor,
but then I was stripped of that honor
because I posed in "Playboy."
CAROL: This is me the day that I turned in my gun and shield.
That was a very emotional day for me,
so it kind of chokes me up a little bit seeing it.
I felt like my heart was ripped out of my chest.
So, losing my uniform after I posed for "Playboy"
really felt like I lost a part of me.
A lot of heartache came from that.
I lost my suit of armor,
and I will never wrap my head around why.
I met the standard of beauty on one criteria,
but on other criteria, I was not even in the ballpark.
Did Black women fit "Playboy's" standard of beauty?
No. It looked like S&M.
That's not someone you put on a pedestal.
You just have sex with that person.
When they decided to hire me, people were like,
"This is disgusting. She's horrible."
We shattered the idea that
there's a perfect ideal of beauty.