1 00:00:05,333 --> 00:00:08,000 I didn't think a regular girl could get in "Playboy." 2 00:00:08,083 --> 00:00:11,875 I said, "You know, I am a cop." And she goes, "What?" 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,417 I said, "I'm a cop." She goes, "Where?" 4 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:17,125 I said, "NYPD." 5 00:00:17,208 --> 00:00:22,000 Wearing my Air Force uniform was very empowering, 6 00:00:22,042 --> 00:00:24,000 like a coat of armor. 7 00:00:24,083 --> 00:00:26,958 When I put on the uniform, it gave me the strength 8 00:00:27,042 --> 00:00:28,625 to be able to run down the street, 9 00:00:28,708 --> 00:00:32,625 tackle a guy, arrest him, and lock him up. 10 00:00:32,625 --> 00:00:35,625 I love this photo 'cause this is the, like, "I'm a badass. 11 00:00:35,708 --> 00:00:38,000 I'm gonna, like, have amazing sex with you, 12 00:00:38,083 --> 00:00:39,667 and then I'm going to whup your ass." 13 00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:43,583 I didn't think posing for "Playboy" was a big deal, 14 00:00:43,667 --> 00:00:45,167 but it blew up. 15 00:00:45,250 --> 00:00:46,833 I never would have thought 16 00:00:46,917 --> 00:00:49,500 it would get the attention it did. 17 00:00:49,542 --> 00:00:52,083 They said, "We're opening an investigation on you." 18 00:00:52,167 --> 00:00:54,375 I was like, "Ooh, an investigation. On what?" 19 00:00:54,500 --> 00:00:56,875 It makes no sense. I didn't break the law. 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,708 I didn't commit a crime. 21 00:00:58,792 --> 00:01:01,875 I was stripped of what was mine-- 22 00:01:01,958 --> 00:01:03,333 something that I earned, 23 00:01:03,375 --> 00:01:06,125 something that I worked really hard to get. 24 00:01:06,208 --> 00:01:09,917 And when something is wrongfully taken away from you, 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,708 it cuts deep. 26 00:01:12,708 --> 00:01:15,167 [motor revving] 27 00:01:15,292 --> 00:01:16,667 My name is Hugh Hefner. 28 00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:18,292 I'm editor-publisher of "Playboy" magazine. 29 00:01:18,375 --> 00:01:20,000 REPORTER: Playboy is one 30 00:01:20,042 --> 00:01:22,333 of the most famous brand names in the world. 31 00:01:22,417 --> 00:01:24,583 It was simply to include sex as 32 00:01:24,667 --> 00:01:27,667 one natural part of a package for a male audience. 33 00:01:27,708 --> 00:01:29,458 KARI ANN: When I made the choice to do "Playboy," 34 00:01:29,542 --> 00:01:32,000 I didn't realize all the choices that I was making 35 00:01:32,083 --> 00:01:34,000 that came with that choice. 36 00:01:34,042 --> 00:01:37,167 PITZULO: We don't judge the men for buying the "Playboy"s, 37 00:01:37,250 --> 00:01:39,833 but we judge the women for posing for "Playboy." 38 00:01:39,875 --> 00:01:41,833 JILL: I was never Jill anymore. 39 00:01:41,917 --> 00:01:44,333 I was Jill that posed for "Playboy." 40 00:01:44,417 --> 00:01:46,667 ASHLEY: I just gave in and knew that I was 41 00:01:46,708 --> 00:01:48,167 probably gonna go to hell. 42 00:01:48,333 --> 00:01:49,917 ZOE: It got to a certain point 43 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,542 where it wasn't fun anymore. 44 00:01:52,667 --> 00:01:54,667 SONDRA: This process was very painful, 45 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:59,458 but I should be able to tell my story as I lived it. 46 00:02:07,542 --> 00:02:08,667 ♪ 47 00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:10,417 GUERRERO: In 1979, 48 00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:13,417 "Playboy" featured its very first woman in uniform, 49 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:15,333 Army Specialist Colleen Donovan. 50 00:02:15,458 --> 00:02:18,167 The spread was a hit, and the following year, 51 00:02:18,208 --> 00:02:20,667 the magazine featured an entire pictorial 52 00:02:20,708 --> 00:02:24,167 dedicated to women of the Armed Forces. 53 00:02:24,208 --> 00:02:26,375 This time, the photos caused controversy. 54 00:02:26,458 --> 00:02:28,500 Throughout the years, 55 00:02:28,583 --> 00:02:30,792 "Playboy" continued to feature women in uniform 56 00:02:30,875 --> 00:02:32,625 within its pages, 57 00:02:32,708 --> 00:02:34,667 a decision that would alter the lives 58 00:02:34,708 --> 00:02:38,000 of many of the women who posed forever. 59 00:02:38,083 --> 00:02:40,500 ♪♪ 60 00:02:40,542 --> 00:02:42,375 ♪ 61 00:02:42,458 --> 00:02:45,000 Carol Shaya joined the NYPD 62 00:02:45,042 --> 00:02:46,667 right out of college. 63 00:02:46,750 --> 00:02:49,292 As a rookie, she had one of the toughest beats-- 64 00:02:49,375 --> 00:02:52,250 the Bronx's 42nd Precinct. 65 00:02:52,375 --> 00:02:54,708 At home, Carol had just gotten married, 66 00:02:54,833 --> 00:02:57,333 and the newlyweds decided, almost as a joke, 67 00:02:57,417 --> 00:03:02,458 to send some recent photos of Carol to "Playboy" Magazine. 68 00:03:02,542 --> 00:03:05,708 To her surprise, something that started out as a laugh 69 00:03:05,792 --> 00:03:08,958 ended up changing her entire life. 70 00:03:08,958 --> 00:03:11,000 -Hi. -Hello, Carol. 71 00:03:11,083 --> 00:03:12,542 -Nice to meet you. -So nice to meet you. 72 00:03:12,625 --> 00:03:14,667 -Pleasure. -Thank you for being here. 73 00:03:14,708 --> 00:03:15,875 Thank you for having me. 74 00:03:15,958 --> 00:03:18,042 -Have a seat. -Thank you. 75 00:03:18,167 --> 00:03:19,542 You're wearing your shield. 76 00:03:19,542 --> 00:03:21,333 I am. I'm wearing--this one, 77 00:03:21,375 --> 00:03:24,333 I think, is my dad, and this one is mine. 78 00:03:24,458 --> 00:03:28,333 So, I'm 6140, and my dad was 614. 79 00:03:28,417 --> 00:03:30,042 -Amazing. -Yeah. 80 00:03:30,125 --> 00:03:31,833 Your father was a Port Authority officer. 81 00:03:31,917 --> 00:03:33,375 Correct. 82 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:35,458 He was doing this job that was helping people, 83 00:03:35,542 --> 00:03:37,000 protecting people. -Correct. 84 00:03:37,083 --> 00:03:39,292 -Did you admire that? -I loved it. 85 00:03:39,375 --> 00:03:42,458 I held my dad, like, to a very high standard. 86 00:03:42,542 --> 00:03:46,375 He was, to me, special, and, you know, 87 00:03:46,542 --> 00:03:49,667 I was kind of, like, Daddy's girl. 88 00:03:49,708 --> 00:03:53,667 So, how did you become an NYPD officer? 89 00:03:53,750 --> 00:03:56,625 I didn't know that I would become a cop in the future. 90 00:03:56,708 --> 00:03:59,500 I thought I was going to be a criminal attorney. 91 00:03:59,583 --> 00:04:02,792 And I was in St. John's University, 92 00:04:02,875 --> 00:04:04,333 and they were like, 93 00:04:04,417 --> 00:04:07,333 "Well, why don't you go to the police academy? 94 00:04:07,458 --> 00:04:10,667 You're gonna get 68 credits," I think was the amount, 95 00:04:10,708 --> 00:04:14,292 "and they're going to go towards your criminal justice degree." 96 00:04:14,292 --> 00:04:16,208 And I said, that's a great idea. 97 00:04:16,292 --> 00:04:19,542 So I went into the academy in 1990. 98 00:04:19,625 --> 00:04:21,625 ♪ 99 00:04:21,708 --> 00:04:23,667 Once I went into the police academy 100 00:04:23,750 --> 00:04:27,625 and had that, like, experience, I was like, oh, I want to see 101 00:04:27,708 --> 00:04:29,500 what it's really like on the street. 102 00:04:29,625 --> 00:04:31,583 And then you become, yourself, a cop. 103 00:04:31,708 --> 00:04:35,917 Right. In 1991, I became a police officer. 104 00:04:36,042 --> 00:04:38,500 You were, at one point, patrolling 105 00:04:38,625 --> 00:04:40,417 a very tough neighborhood. 106 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:42,542 Yeah, the South Bronx, 107 00:04:42,625 --> 00:04:48,417 where I can honestly say it was culture shock. 108 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:53,167 Drugs on every corner, everywhere you looked. 109 00:04:53,292 --> 00:04:56,500 It was crazy over there. Very dangerous. 110 00:04:57,958 --> 00:05:01,208 How were you treated there by the guys that you worked with? 111 00:05:01,208 --> 00:05:03,000 They were not against me, 112 00:05:03,042 --> 00:05:05,625 but I felt the need to be stronger 113 00:05:05,708 --> 00:05:08,167 and tougher than the way I looked. 114 00:05:08,250 --> 00:05:12,792 Yeah, I would get looks, but it didn't bother me. 115 00:05:12,875 --> 00:05:15,042 I was like, all right, that's cute. Whatever. 116 00:05:15,167 --> 00:05:18,292 -You didn't feel uncomfortable? -No. 117 00:05:18,375 --> 00:05:21,500 So, you were in the Bronx. Then what happened next? 118 00:05:21,583 --> 00:05:24,500 I get married to another cop. 119 00:05:24,542 --> 00:05:27,667 He was a sergeant, and we were going on our honeymoon. 120 00:05:27,750 --> 00:05:31,833 So we went on this nice cruise, and we took these photos. 121 00:05:31,958 --> 00:05:35,375 It was like me in a bikini and stuff like that. 122 00:05:35,458 --> 00:05:36,875 So, when we got home, 123 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,333 and we looked at the pictures and everything, 124 00:05:39,375 --> 00:05:40,833 he goes, "You should, like, model." 125 00:05:40,917 --> 00:05:42,958 And I was like, "No, I can't model," 126 00:05:43,042 --> 00:05:44,667 and he's like, "Why not?" 127 00:05:44,792 --> 00:05:48,000 I said, "To be a model, you need to be like, 5'11"." 128 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,917 He goes, "What about 'Playboy'?" I go, "'Playboy'?" 129 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,167 I mean, the women that were in "Playboy," 130 00:05:54,292 --> 00:05:56,500 come on, iconic women. 131 00:05:56,542 --> 00:05:59,458 I looked at "Playboy" as 132 00:05:59,542 --> 00:06:02,417 being the most amazing magazine to get in. 133 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:05,958 I didn't think a regular girl could get in "Playboy." 134 00:06:06,042 --> 00:06:08,333 He goes, "Yeah, let me send them, 135 00:06:08,375 --> 00:06:09,875 and let's see what happens." 136 00:06:09,958 --> 00:06:12,000 When he sent those photos, 137 00:06:12,083 --> 00:06:15,958 did he let "Playboy" know that you were an NYPD officer? 138 00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:17,792 No. They didn't know. 139 00:06:17,875 --> 00:06:21,208 It was less than a week. 140 00:06:21,333 --> 00:06:22,542 The phone rings. 141 00:06:22,667 --> 00:06:24,917 "Hi. This is Playboy Enterprises. 142 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,583 This is Marilyn Grabowski." 143 00:06:26,667 --> 00:06:29,333 I'm like, "Is this for real?" 144 00:06:29,417 --> 00:06:32,167 She goes, "Yes, we love your photos, 145 00:06:32,208 --> 00:06:35,333 and I wanna know, would you be open to doing a test shoot? 146 00:06:35,375 --> 00:06:37,000 We'll fly you to Chicago." 147 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,500 And I'm like, okay. 148 00:06:39,542 --> 00:06:41,500 What goes through your mind 149 00:06:41,583 --> 00:06:44,583 when you actually have to get naked for the camera? 150 00:06:44,667 --> 00:06:46,375 I felt a little shy, 151 00:06:46,458 --> 00:06:48,375 but "Playboy" had a funny way 152 00:06:48,458 --> 00:06:51,500 of making you feel very comfortable. 153 00:06:51,583 --> 00:06:58,333 I had a robe, and I was undressed so infrequently, 154 00:06:58,375 --> 00:07:00,625 'cause most of the time they're doing things, 155 00:07:00,708 --> 00:07:03,750 lighting, they have somebody else doing whatever. 156 00:07:03,875 --> 00:07:06,208 And the makeup people, the camera people, 157 00:07:06,292 --> 00:07:09,000 everybody is just so professional 158 00:07:09,125 --> 00:07:12,542 that they're not even looking at you here. 159 00:07:12,625 --> 00:07:15,625 They're talking to you. 160 00:07:15,708 --> 00:07:17,000 After the test shoot, 161 00:07:17,042 --> 00:07:19,083 I go back to Marilyn Grabowski's office, 162 00:07:19,167 --> 00:07:20,833 and I sit in the chair, 163 00:07:20,917 --> 00:07:25,250 and we start talking about the negotiation now. 164 00:07:25,375 --> 00:07:27,250 I says, "Well, what do you guys pay?" 165 00:07:27,333 --> 00:07:28,792 She goes, "Oh, we--" 166 00:07:28,875 --> 00:07:32,625 at that time, it was, like, $20,000 or $30,000. 167 00:07:32,708 --> 00:07:36,250 I said, "$20,000 or 30,000? That's it?" 168 00:07:36,375 --> 00:07:39,958 I go, "No." I said, "That's not enough." 169 00:07:40,042 --> 00:07:42,875 And she goes, "Why?" I said, "Well, I don't know." 170 00:07:42,958 --> 00:07:46,167 I said, "You know, I am a cop." And she goes, "What?" 171 00:07:46,250 --> 00:07:48,208 I said, "I'm a cop." 172 00:07:48,333 --> 00:07:51,333 She goes, "Where?" I said, "NYPD." 173 00:07:51,375 --> 00:07:53,167 She goes, "Do you have your badge on you?" 174 00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:55,250 I go, "Yeah," and I go into my bag, 175 00:07:55,333 --> 00:07:58,333 and I show her my badge, and she's like, 176 00:07:58,417 --> 00:08:02,500 "Oh, okay. I'm gonna get back to you." 177 00:08:02,542 --> 00:08:05,333 How much did you end up making in "Playboy"? 178 00:08:05,417 --> 00:08:06,833 $100,000. 179 00:08:06,833 --> 00:08:08,667 Wow. 180 00:08:08,750 --> 00:08:12,083 So you went from $20,000 to $30,000 to $100,000? 181 00:08:12,208 --> 00:08:13,792 -Correct. -Amazing. 182 00:08:13,875 --> 00:08:17,000 So, they knew this was gonna be a very big story. 183 00:08:17,042 --> 00:08:20,917 Yes, I guess they did, and I had no clue. 184 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,333 Did you ever tell anybody that you worked for, 185 00:08:24,417 --> 00:08:26,583 a commanding officer or anybody, 186 00:08:26,667 --> 00:08:28,250 that you were testing for "Playboy"? 187 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:32,542 No. A cop works outside of their job, 188 00:08:32,625 --> 00:08:35,250 you have to file for off-duty employment. 189 00:08:35,333 --> 00:08:36,500 I never said the word "Playboy." 190 00:08:36,542 --> 00:08:38,583 -No. -Never. 191 00:08:38,708 --> 00:08:42,583 But in my off-duty application, it did say, "Nude modeling." 192 00:08:42,708 --> 00:08:44,000 And nobody said anything to you? 193 00:08:44,042 --> 00:08:45,917 -No. Not at all. -No. 194 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,083 So, after the test shoot, I go back to work, 195 00:08:49,167 --> 00:08:52,708 my normal life and everything, and then I get the call. 196 00:08:52,833 --> 00:08:57,000 They said, "Do you want to pose in uniform or do you not?" 197 00:08:57,125 --> 00:09:00,125 I go, "Oh, I'd love to." Like, I didn't even think of it. 198 00:09:00,208 --> 00:09:03,792 And they said, "Okay, but we can't use your actual uniform. 199 00:09:03,875 --> 00:09:05,667 We have to use, like, a replica." 200 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:07,667 I said, "Okay. I'm okay with that." 201 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:13,333 And I posed in "Playboy," August of 1994 on the cover. 202 00:09:13,417 --> 00:09:17,125 "NYPD Nude--New York's Finest." 203 00:09:17,208 --> 00:09:23,500 ♪ 204 00:09:23,583 --> 00:09:27,000 I had a lot of fun during the photo shoot. 205 00:09:27,042 --> 00:09:30,667 This one with the handcuffs-- I was proud of myself. 206 00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:32,833 It didn't scare me. 207 00:09:32,917 --> 00:09:38,250 I chose to come off this way. 208 00:09:38,333 --> 00:09:39,708 I liked being a cop. 209 00:09:39,792 --> 00:09:41,417 I was proud of it. 210 00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:44,667 I wanted to announce it to the world. 211 00:09:44,750 --> 00:09:47,583 So, you're not at all, at this point, worried about 212 00:09:47,667 --> 00:09:50,167 what your commanding officer is gonna think? 213 00:09:50,208 --> 00:09:51,750 -No, not at all. -No. 214 00:09:51,833 --> 00:09:53,417 For me, I was like, all right, so what? 215 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:56,875 I posed nude for a magazine. Who cares? It's "Playboy." 216 00:09:56,958 --> 00:10:00,750 Okay, so when the issue came out, what happened to you? 217 00:10:00,875 --> 00:10:04,250 Oh, my God, it blew up. It blew up. 218 00:10:04,375 --> 00:10:08,417 I never would have thought it would get the attention it did. 219 00:10:08,542 --> 00:10:12,208 It was crazy. 220 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,958 ♪ 221 00:10:21,042 --> 00:10:23,500 When the issue came out, what happened to you? 222 00:10:23,583 --> 00:10:25,667 The media was relentless. 223 00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:28,667 A lovely young officer named Carol Shaya 224 00:10:28,750 --> 00:10:30,542 has posed nude in "Playboy," 225 00:10:30,625 --> 00:10:33,917 and that has the NYPD Blue seeing red. 226 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,708 I certainly don't think posing nude is right. 227 00:10:35,875 --> 00:10:37,375 You're supposed to be a role model as a policewoman. 228 00:10:37,458 --> 00:10:40,333 ♪ 229 00:10:40,375 --> 00:10:42,500 She was one of New York's Finest, 230 00:10:42,542 --> 00:10:45,125 but now the lady in blue is being blackballed 231 00:10:45,208 --> 00:10:48,583 for flashing more than her badge in "Playboy" Magazine. 232 00:10:48,667 --> 00:10:50,833 I'd go to work. There were news trucks 233 00:10:50,917 --> 00:10:52,958 sitting in front of the precinct. 234 00:10:53,042 --> 00:10:56,917 I'd be on patrol, and there was 235 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,417 news trucks following my police car. 236 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:01,583 Sorry, no comment. 237 00:11:01,667 --> 00:11:03,000 [horns honking in distance] 238 00:11:03,083 --> 00:11:06,167 So, now that is affecting my job, 239 00:11:06,250 --> 00:11:08,458 and I'm like, "What are you guys doing, man? 240 00:11:08,542 --> 00:11:10,708 I got to go to work." 241 00:11:13,708 --> 00:11:14,958 I'm just gonna stop you for one minute... 242 00:11:15,042 --> 00:11:17,542 -Yes. -...and say, if I had been 243 00:11:17,625 --> 00:11:20,000 working in the New York media at that time, 244 00:11:20,042 --> 00:11:22,042 I absolutely would have been following you... 245 00:11:22,042 --> 00:11:23,833 -[laughs] -...down the sidewalk... 246 00:11:23,875 --> 00:11:25,083 -Well, that's-- -...and trying to interview you. 247 00:11:25,208 --> 00:11:26,667 That's what happened. 248 00:11:26,750 --> 00:11:28,875 Meanwhile, your dad, a Port Authority cop... 249 00:11:28,958 --> 00:11:30,500 Mm-hmm. 250 00:11:30,583 --> 00:11:33,667 What did he think when you posed for "Playboy" as a cop? 251 00:11:33,708 --> 00:11:35,500 Oh, he was not happy. 252 00:11:35,583 --> 00:11:43,500 My father did not speak to me for six months after I posed. 253 00:11:43,542 --> 00:11:47,292 He was proud when I became a cop. 254 00:11:48,792 --> 00:11:51,417 At Madison Square Garden, when I had my ceremony, 255 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:55,042 he stood there so proud, like, his daughter's a cop like him. 256 00:11:55,125 --> 00:11:58,333 So with me posing for "Playboy," 257 00:11:58,417 --> 00:12:01,708 he just couldn't wrap his head around it at the time. 258 00:12:01,792 --> 00:12:03,708 You felt like you had disappointed your dad? 259 00:12:03,792 --> 00:12:08,667 Yeah, I did. When my dad kinda turned his back on me, 260 00:12:08,708 --> 00:12:10,125 it broke me. 261 00:12:10,208 --> 00:12:12,375 He didn't want everybody and their mother 262 00:12:12,458 --> 00:12:14,042 seeing his daughter naked. 263 00:12:14,125 --> 00:12:15,833 ♪ 264 00:12:15,958 --> 00:12:19,333 So, yeah, I understood. 265 00:12:19,375 --> 00:12:23,500 In terms of your job, was there ever any clause anywhere 266 00:12:23,583 --> 00:12:25,417 that says you cannot pose nude in "Playboy" Magazine? 267 00:12:25,542 --> 00:12:27,292 No. Nothing like that. 268 00:12:27,375 --> 00:12:30,500 You just have to abide by the rules and regulations 269 00:12:30,542 --> 00:12:33,208 that everyone else has to abide in. 270 00:12:33,292 --> 00:12:35,250 What about other cops? What did they say to you? 271 00:12:35,375 --> 00:12:38,958 I can honestly say, to my face, not one bad comment. 272 00:12:39,042 --> 00:12:41,917 Everyone I knew was fine, 273 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,125 but there were women that didn't stand beside me. 274 00:12:51,167 --> 00:12:55,542 And the Policewomen Endowment is basically an organization 275 00:12:55,625 --> 00:12:57,500 that helped support 276 00:12:57,542 --> 00:12:59,833 the women's movement in the NYPD. 277 00:12:59,958 --> 00:13:01,875 And they came after me, saying, 278 00:13:01,875 --> 00:13:04,792 "We don't stand behind you, and we don't support you." 279 00:13:04,875 --> 00:13:06,500 REPORTER: Lieutenant Karen Krizan, 280 00:13:06,625 --> 00:13:08,583 who heads the Patrolwomen's Endowment Association, 281 00:13:08,667 --> 00:13:10,208 says other female officers 282 00:13:10,333 --> 00:13:13,042 are paying the price for Shaya's notoriety. 283 00:13:13,125 --> 00:13:15,000 We have women that are out on foot posts, 284 00:13:15,083 --> 00:13:19,333 that, um, civilians drive by in the cars and start either 285 00:13:19,333 --> 00:13:24,000 screaming obscenities at them or ask them if they have, um, 286 00:13:24,042 --> 00:13:27,292 in nice terms, I can say breasts that look like Carol's. 287 00:13:27,375 --> 00:13:29,292 So, when they came after me, saying, 288 00:13:29,375 --> 00:13:31,667 "Oh, you know, you posed for 'Playboy,' 289 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:35,500 and you got paid, and I go, hold on. 290 00:13:35,583 --> 00:13:39,000 First of all, cops make nothing. 291 00:13:39,042 --> 00:13:46,500 When I came out of the academy, my salary was $24,977. 292 00:13:46,542 --> 00:13:50,208 It was nothing. 293 00:13:50,292 --> 00:13:54,375 It was hard to get by, to be quite honest. 294 00:13:54,458 --> 00:13:58,167 My intention was never to hurt females. 295 00:13:58,250 --> 00:14:02,917 It was nice to show that female cops 296 00:14:03,042 --> 00:14:06,958 could still be feminine and do a male job. 297 00:14:08,875 --> 00:14:10,250 So, what happens next? 298 00:14:10,333 --> 00:14:14,250 The NYPD put me on a departmental trial 299 00:14:14,333 --> 00:14:17,208 because I posed nude for a magazine in uniform... 300 00:14:17,292 --> 00:14:20,375 ♪ 301 00:14:20,458 --> 00:14:24,292 ...even though the uniform was a "replica." 302 00:14:24,375 --> 00:14:27,958 I used the uniform for financial gain, 303 00:14:28,042 --> 00:14:30,083 is what they claimed. 304 00:14:30,208 --> 00:14:32,375 But the trial commissioner said, 305 00:14:32,458 --> 00:14:35,875 "Police Officer Shaya followed the rules, 306 00:14:35,958 --> 00:14:40,042 and we have no legal grounds to terminate her." 307 00:14:40,125 --> 00:14:42,792 So, I got through the trial. 308 00:14:42,917 --> 00:14:44,542 It was like, oh, it felt good to win, 309 00:14:44,625 --> 00:14:51,167 but then one day the news is on, and all of a sudden, I hear, 310 00:14:51,208 --> 00:14:53,750 you know, "Police Officer Carol Shaya 311 00:14:53,833 --> 00:14:57,667 has been terminated from the NYPD." 312 00:14:57,792 --> 00:14:59,708 I was like, what? 313 00:14:59,792 --> 00:15:03,250 And that is how I found out I got fired. 314 00:15:03,333 --> 00:15:04,958 ♪ 315 00:15:05,042 --> 00:15:06,792 I was pissed. 316 00:15:06,792 --> 00:15:08,333 I went through a pissed stage. 317 00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:11,042 Then I went through a really sad stage, 318 00:15:11,125 --> 00:15:12,708 like a grieving process. 319 00:15:12,833 --> 00:15:17,542 I just lost a big part of me. 320 00:15:17,667 --> 00:15:22,875 I overshadowed somebody who did not want to be overshadowed. 321 00:15:22,958 --> 00:15:25,417 Bill Bratton, former Police Commissioner. 322 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:27,792 ♪ 323 00:15:27,875 --> 00:15:30,000 He loved the media, 324 00:15:30,125 --> 00:15:36,667 and here is some female cop getting more media than he did. 325 00:15:36,750 --> 00:15:39,083 Being in the paper every week 326 00:15:39,167 --> 00:15:42,042 and being on "Page Six" all the time, 327 00:15:42,125 --> 00:15:44,583 it was bringing a lot of attention to me. 328 00:15:44,667 --> 00:15:46,625 He was the one who was bothered. 329 00:15:46,708 --> 00:15:49,375 So you thought that Bill Bratton was jealous of you? 330 00:15:49,458 --> 00:15:51,417 100%. 331 00:15:55,375 --> 00:15:59,792 He said that you monetized the NYPD uniform. 332 00:15:59,875 --> 00:16:03,000 Meanwhile, he was under investigation 333 00:16:03,042 --> 00:16:05,042 for ethics violations. 334 00:16:05,167 --> 00:16:06,667 That's true. I remember that. 335 00:16:06,792 --> 00:16:09,500 GUERRERO: Because he had just signed a book deal, 336 00:16:09,625 --> 00:16:11,417 so he had profited 337 00:16:11,542 --> 00:16:14,417 because of his relationship with the NYPD. 338 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:16,500 ♪ 339 00:16:16,542 --> 00:16:20,250 Around the same time, there was a male NYPD officer 340 00:16:20,375 --> 00:16:22,208 who posed for "Playgirl"... -Correct. 341 00:16:22,292 --> 00:16:24,000 -...and he was not fired. -Correct. 342 00:16:24,083 --> 00:16:27,875 It's as sexist as it can be. 343 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,250 I still feel like there's sexism in the NYPD. 344 00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:34,583 I don't think that'll ever go away. 345 00:16:34,667 --> 00:16:38,167 But it was a lot worse back when I was on the job. 346 00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:40,667 And you know what? There's that double standard. 347 00:16:40,708 --> 00:16:43,000 If a man can do whatever he wants outside of work, 348 00:16:43,042 --> 00:16:44,875 why can't we? 349 00:16:44,958 --> 00:16:47,917 So, you see how people are gonna think this is hypocritical. 350 00:16:48,042 --> 00:16:49,750 Absolutely. 351 00:16:52,208 --> 00:16:53,958 Men have done a lot worse. 352 00:16:54,042 --> 00:16:57,542 They have committed crimes and not been terminated. 353 00:16:57,625 --> 00:16:59,500 After I lost my job, 354 00:16:59,542 --> 00:17:03,250 I was heartbroken because I loved my job. 355 00:17:03,333 --> 00:17:06,458 I loved what I did. I could have stayed there my whole life. 356 00:17:06,542 --> 00:17:12,083 I was so proud to be a police officer in the NYPD. 357 00:17:14,208 --> 00:17:17,083 My oath was to protect and serve. 358 00:17:17,167 --> 00:17:21,083 I had no idea that posing for "Playboy" 359 00:17:21,167 --> 00:17:22,583 would take that away from me. 360 00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:24,500 ♪♪ 361 00:17:24,625 --> 00:17:29,375 And when something is wrongfully taken away from you, 362 00:17:29,375 --> 00:17:31,250 it cuts deep. 363 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,583 Coming from a family with a strong military background, 364 00:17:38,667 --> 00:17:40,917 Michelle Manhart enlisted in the Air Force 365 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,417 when she was just 16. 366 00:17:43,542 --> 00:17:46,292 In her 14-year military career, Michelle served 367 00:17:46,375 --> 00:17:52,250 in Germany and Kuwait before becoming a drill sergeant. 368 00:17:52,375 --> 00:17:55,208 But when "Playboy" came to San Antonio looking for models 369 00:17:55,333 --> 00:17:59,333 for an upcoming issue, Michelle answered their call. 370 00:17:59,417 --> 00:18:01,542 -Hi, Michelle. -Hello. How are you? 371 00:18:01,542 --> 00:18:03,458 -Good to meet you. -So good to meet you. 372 00:18:03,458 --> 00:18:05,167 -Have a seat. -Thank you. 373 00:18:07,208 --> 00:18:10,625 First of all, thank you for your service. 374 00:18:10,708 --> 00:18:11,875 [laughs] Thanks. 375 00:18:11,958 --> 00:18:13,333 You are a badass. 376 00:18:13,458 --> 00:18:14,750 [laughs] 377 00:18:14,833 --> 00:18:17,042 Only on Tuesdays. I just say only on Tuesdays. 378 00:18:17,125 --> 00:18:18,750 I'm so excited to meet you. 379 00:18:18,833 --> 00:18:20,208 -Thank you. -Um... 380 00:18:20,292 --> 00:18:22,458 There's so many questions I have for you, 381 00:18:22,542 --> 00:18:24,375 but the first thing I wanna ask you is 382 00:18:24,458 --> 00:18:27,208 when was the first time you ever saw a "Playboy," 383 00:18:27,292 --> 00:18:29,000 and what did you think? 384 00:18:29,083 --> 00:18:30,833 I do remember when I was 8, 385 00:18:30,917 --> 00:18:33,125 I saw my first "Playboy," 386 00:18:33,208 --> 00:18:35,208 and I remember the women were so glamorous. 387 00:18:35,333 --> 00:18:38,083 There was just this mystique about them 388 00:18:38,167 --> 00:18:40,500 that was very beautiful. 389 00:18:40,625 --> 00:18:42,750 It was like this odd dream of mine. 390 00:18:42,875 --> 00:18:46,667 Like, it was this thought that I wanted to be in "Playboy," 391 00:18:46,708 --> 00:18:48,333 and I had said that day, 392 00:18:48,417 --> 00:18:50,417 "I'm--I'm gonna do that someday." [chuckles] 393 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,292 You have had a really interesting life, 394 00:18:52,375 --> 00:18:57,708 and your childhood was pretty difficult, I would say. 395 00:18:57,875 --> 00:19:01,042 You ended up leaving home early. 396 00:19:01,167 --> 00:19:03,500 Can you tell me what happened and--and why? 397 00:19:03,583 --> 00:19:05,708 There were times that my mom and I 398 00:19:05,833 --> 00:19:07,667 didn't get along very well, 399 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:10,708 and we had gotten into a very large fight at one point, 400 00:19:10,792 --> 00:19:14,000 and so she "kicked me out," 401 00:19:14,083 --> 00:19:17,250 and I was forced to leave home. 402 00:19:17,333 --> 00:19:19,667 And I was still a kid. 403 00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:23,875 I look at it, and I'm like, oh, I was 14. 404 00:19:23,958 --> 00:19:25,833 I didn't know that it was abnormal, 405 00:19:25,917 --> 00:19:28,500 but I had a lot of support. 406 00:19:28,542 --> 00:19:31,417 I had a really good friend at the time. 407 00:19:31,417 --> 00:19:33,875 Her mom let me live there for a while. 408 00:19:33,958 --> 00:19:35,542 ♪ 409 00:19:35,625 --> 00:19:41,125 How did you end up this...girl, this teenager, 410 00:19:41,208 --> 00:19:42,500 joining the military? 411 00:19:42,625 --> 00:19:44,208 I was getting close to graduation, 412 00:19:44,208 --> 00:19:46,500 and I had talked to a friend of mine, 413 00:19:46,625 --> 00:19:49,500 and she was talking about joining the military. 414 00:19:49,583 --> 00:19:51,333 I had a lot of family members that had already served, 415 00:19:51,417 --> 00:19:53,500 and so I was like, ah, I'll go check this out. 416 00:19:53,583 --> 00:19:56,167 A lot of the offices will show videos 417 00:19:56,208 --> 00:19:58,042 or have photos on the wall, 418 00:19:58,125 --> 00:20:00,667 and one of them was the basic training video 419 00:20:00,708 --> 00:20:02,542 in the Air Force office. 420 00:20:02,625 --> 00:20:06,250 I just remember seeing these people yelling at trainees, 421 00:20:06,333 --> 00:20:09,167 and I just thought that, oh, my God, that's so fun. 422 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:11,500 You get to yell all day. I was like, I wanna do that. 423 00:20:11,542 --> 00:20:13,333 What do I have to do to do that right there? 424 00:20:13,417 --> 00:20:15,125 And the recruiter laughed at me and was like, 425 00:20:15,208 --> 00:20:18,708 "Oh, you--you can't just do that, but you could do that." 426 00:20:18,875 --> 00:20:22,333 And so it was like, mm, let me-- let me open this door for you. 427 00:20:22,417 --> 00:20:24,417 But, like, I knew I needed something 428 00:20:24,542 --> 00:20:27,042 to get my life on track, or I was going to, 429 00:20:27,167 --> 00:20:29,500 who knows, end up where. 430 00:20:29,625 --> 00:20:32,083 My mother signed her parental rights away, 431 00:20:32,167 --> 00:20:34,917 releasing me to the military. 432 00:20:34,917 --> 00:20:37,708 So, I went to graduation, 433 00:20:37,792 --> 00:20:41,667 walked across the stage, got my diploma, 434 00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:44,208 and literally left for the Air Force that day. 435 00:20:44,292 --> 00:20:46,375 I would think that coming from a place 436 00:20:46,458 --> 00:20:48,167 where you left home as a young girl 437 00:20:48,292 --> 00:20:51,792 to having this opportunity to have a career, 438 00:20:51,875 --> 00:20:54,833 to have a roof over your head, to have three meals a day, 439 00:20:54,917 --> 00:20:56,583 must have been very appealing. 440 00:20:56,667 --> 00:20:59,167 Oh, very much. But I just think the idea of the military 441 00:20:59,250 --> 00:21:00,500 was very appealing to me. 442 00:21:00,542 --> 00:21:02,375 -Yeah. The discipline of it. -Yes. 443 00:21:02,458 --> 00:21:04,083 -Serving your country. -Yes. 444 00:21:04,208 --> 00:21:06,708 So, eventually in your career, 445 00:21:06,792 --> 00:21:08,375 you became a D.I., a drill instructor. 446 00:21:08,458 --> 00:21:11,208 Mm-hmm. That was 2003. 447 00:21:11,292 --> 00:21:13,167 What about being a drill instructor 448 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:14,792 appealed to you? 449 00:21:14,875 --> 00:21:17,500 Just the idea of, like, shaping people, 450 00:21:17,583 --> 00:21:22,667 being able to be a part of building something. 451 00:21:22,708 --> 00:21:24,250 The Air Force is gonna continue, right? 452 00:21:24,375 --> 00:21:25,667 We--We leave, it's gonna keep going, 453 00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:27,542 but if you could become a part of it 454 00:21:27,625 --> 00:21:29,708 and put your footstep in there and know that you made 455 00:21:29,792 --> 00:21:34,667 a difference for somebody, you helped to change one life, 456 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:36,833 it makes you feel complete, or at least it does me. 457 00:21:36,875 --> 00:21:41,708 And so I just loved it. 458 00:21:41,792 --> 00:21:44,875 Best job I ever had. 459 00:21:44,958 --> 00:21:46,708 At this point in your life, you'd been there for 460 00:21:46,792 --> 00:21:48,417 over a decade in the Air Force. -Yeah. 461 00:21:48,542 --> 00:21:49,833 You wanted to be there for 20 years. 462 00:21:49,917 --> 00:21:51,500 -Yes. -At least. 463 00:21:51,583 --> 00:21:54,542 100%. I felt so perfectly where I was supposed to be. 464 00:21:54,625 --> 00:21:56,542 Then what happened with "Playboy"? 465 00:21:56,625 --> 00:22:00,792 My husband was taking a, um, art class, 466 00:22:00,875 --> 00:22:05,708 and he was talking about how they perceived nudity in "art." 467 00:22:05,708 --> 00:22:07,708 And then we got on the topic of "Playboy," 468 00:22:07,708 --> 00:22:12,625 and later I got on my computer, and I typed in Playboy.com. 469 00:22:12,708 --> 00:22:14,750 ♪ 470 00:22:14,875 --> 00:22:17,792 Which I had never been to before. 471 00:22:17,875 --> 00:22:20,458 And I was scrolling and looking at different things. 472 00:22:20,542 --> 00:22:22,208 I had seen this area at the bottom 473 00:22:22,208 --> 00:22:24,333 that was, like, 474 00:22:24,375 --> 00:22:26,250 "Recruiting near you" or "Coming near you" 475 00:22:26,375 --> 00:22:29,167 or something like that, and I clicked it. 476 00:22:29,250 --> 00:22:31,333 It said that they were going to be in San Antonio, Texas, 477 00:22:31,417 --> 00:22:33,000 the very next day. 478 00:22:33,042 --> 00:22:34,875 -The next day? -Yes. 479 00:22:34,958 --> 00:22:36,333 I knew this was meant to be. 480 00:22:36,417 --> 00:22:40,083 So, I talked to my husband about it, 481 00:22:40,167 --> 00:22:42,500 and he was like, "You should go." 482 00:22:42,542 --> 00:22:44,583 ♪ 483 00:22:44,667 --> 00:22:46,792 And so, what happened? You just show up? 484 00:22:46,875 --> 00:22:48,417 I did. I just showed up. 485 00:22:48,542 --> 00:22:49,708 First, they brought us into a room 486 00:22:49,792 --> 00:22:52,208 and did, like, a typical interview. 487 00:22:52,292 --> 00:22:56,708 Did they know at this point that you're in the Air Force? 488 00:22:56,792 --> 00:22:59,125 I'm sure they did, because I remember we had to fill out, 489 00:22:59,208 --> 00:23:00,667 you know, like, when you go to the doctor, you fill out this-- 490 00:23:00,792 --> 00:23:02,125 A form. "What do you do for a living?" kind-- 491 00:23:02,208 --> 00:23:03,958 Yes. Right. And then from there, 492 00:23:04,042 --> 00:23:05,833 you went into a next room, and they're-- 493 00:23:05,917 --> 00:23:09,292 this room's filming, um, and they want you to be sensual, 494 00:23:09,375 --> 00:23:11,500 and I'm not very good at that. [laughs] 495 00:23:11,583 --> 00:23:13,167 Did they ask you to take your clothes off? 496 00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:15,833 They did, and it was uncomfortable 497 00:23:15,875 --> 00:23:18,708 because I'm very self-conscious naked. 498 00:23:18,833 --> 00:23:21,542 -So, who was in the room? -The cameraperson. 499 00:23:21,667 --> 00:23:23,333 There was a female asking questions, 500 00:23:23,417 --> 00:23:25,125 and then there was one more, 501 00:23:25,208 --> 00:23:29,292 and it was kind of, like, overwhelming 'cause, you know, 502 00:23:29,375 --> 00:23:31,833 here I am, and I know it's real, 503 00:23:31,958 --> 00:23:33,958 but at the same time, I'm like, is it? 504 00:23:34,042 --> 00:23:36,667 Like, this is weird. I've never been asked to do this. 505 00:23:36,750 --> 00:23:39,292 I was trying to be sensual and cute 506 00:23:39,375 --> 00:23:42,125 and take off my clothes slowly on the couch, 507 00:23:42,208 --> 00:23:45,000 and--and then I left. [laughs] 508 00:23:45,083 --> 00:23:48,708 So, how long was it before you hear back from "Playboy"? 509 00:23:48,833 --> 00:23:50,250 The same day. 510 00:23:50,333 --> 00:23:52,000 -You heard back from "Playboy"... -I did. 511 00:23:52,042 --> 00:23:53,750 ...the day that you auditioned for them? 512 00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:56,500 I did. I got a phone call, and they said, you know, 513 00:23:56,583 --> 00:24:00,083 "We really like the way that you are on camera, 514 00:24:00,083 --> 00:24:01,833 and, um, we want to talk to you 515 00:24:01,875 --> 00:24:03,542 about doing an actual photo shoot." 516 00:24:03,625 --> 00:24:05,208 And I was just like, "Yes. I don't care. Yes. 517 00:24:05,292 --> 00:24:06,667 My answer's yes." 518 00:24:06,708 --> 00:24:09,458 -So, "Playboy" sends a team... -They did. 519 00:24:09,542 --> 00:24:10,667 -...to shoot you... -Right. 520 00:24:10,667 --> 00:24:11,667 -...in San Antonio. -Correct. 521 00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:14,000 They said they were shooting 522 00:24:14,042 --> 00:24:15,500 for Employee of the Month. 523 00:24:15,542 --> 00:24:17,458 Employee of the Month is just one photo, 524 00:24:17,542 --> 00:24:21,083 and then it had some stats below it. 525 00:24:21,208 --> 00:24:24,458 So, we shot for that, and then everything went back. 526 00:24:24,542 --> 00:24:26,417 And as you know, Hef reviews everything. 527 00:24:26,542 --> 00:24:27,958 And I got a phone call. 528 00:24:28,042 --> 00:24:31,000 They said, "So, Hef reviewed your photos, 529 00:24:31,042 --> 00:24:32,875 and he said there's too many great photos, 530 00:24:32,958 --> 00:24:34,833 so he wants to give you an entire spread." [chuckles] 531 00:24:34,875 --> 00:24:36,333 Wow. 532 00:24:36,417 --> 00:24:38,625 I thought it was a joke. I literally told them, 533 00:24:38,708 --> 00:24:40,667 "Ha ha, this is funny" on the phone. 534 00:24:40,750 --> 00:24:42,792 And it wasn't a joke. It was very, very real. 535 00:24:42,875 --> 00:24:45,875 At some point, did the alarm bells go off 536 00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:49,750 for you in any of the documents you signed, 537 00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:52,375 any of the rules you had to live by 538 00:24:52,458 --> 00:24:54,375 by being in the Air Force? 539 00:24:54,458 --> 00:24:59,167 Did you ever hear or have anyone say to you, 540 00:24:59,250 --> 00:25:04,208 "You are not ever allowed to pose nude for a magazine? 541 00:25:04,333 --> 00:25:07,083 Never. Never. Was there ever anything 542 00:25:07,167 --> 00:25:09,167 that was ever said to me about that side. 543 00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:11,583 My career was so important to me. 544 00:25:11,667 --> 00:25:13,167 I would never even have taken the photos 545 00:25:13,208 --> 00:25:15,708 if I thought it was taboo, 546 00:25:15,833 --> 00:25:17,667 but when the magazine came out, 547 00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:20,625 my whole life was flipped upside down. 548 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,125 Playboy said, "We wanna photograph you. 549 00:25:28,208 --> 00:25:30,458 We're interested in putting you in the magazine." 550 00:25:30,542 --> 00:25:32,708 Correct. They wanted to make a bigger feature. 551 00:25:32,792 --> 00:25:34,583 What it was is they wanted to perceive 552 00:25:34,708 --> 00:25:39,667 that women in the military can yell at people, fight wars, 553 00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:41,333 serve their country honorably, 554 00:25:41,375 --> 00:25:43,792 but when they come home at night, 555 00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:46,000 they're women who wanna be treated like women. 556 00:25:46,042 --> 00:25:47,667 So, they wanted to show that we do have 557 00:25:47,708 --> 00:25:49,583 these two sides to us. 558 00:25:49,708 --> 00:25:51,292 I get why Playboy would want that. 559 00:25:51,375 --> 00:25:54,167 -Yeah. -So, you shoot? 560 00:25:54,250 --> 00:25:55,917 -We spent a week shooting. -Good experience? 561 00:25:56,042 --> 00:25:57,625 And it was awesome. 562 00:25:57,708 --> 00:25:59,750 You know, a lot of different scenes and poses, 563 00:25:59,833 --> 00:26:01,958 and everything was wonderful. 564 00:26:02,042 --> 00:26:05,250 I love this photo 'cause it reminds me of, like, 565 00:26:05,375 --> 00:26:09,625 this is the female human version of a praying mantis right here. 566 00:26:09,708 --> 00:26:12,500 I'm gonna, like, have amazing sex with you, 567 00:26:12,583 --> 00:26:14,375 and then I'm gonna whup your ass, 568 00:26:14,458 --> 00:26:15,917 or maybe I'm gonna whup your ass and then have sex with you. 569 00:26:16,042 --> 00:26:17,917 Either way, you're getting your ass whupped. 570 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,500 GUERRERO: The photos themselves, were you completely nude? 571 00:26:21,542 --> 00:26:23,000 MICHELLE: In some, yes. 572 00:26:23,125 --> 00:26:25,083 And then were there ever parts of your uniform 573 00:26:25,167 --> 00:26:29,167 that were shown or anything in the nude photos? 574 00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:32,167 No. When I was even partially dressed at all, 575 00:26:32,208 --> 00:26:33,458 I was not wearing a uniform. 576 00:26:33,542 --> 00:26:35,333 I didn't wear my hat and disrespect it. 577 00:26:35,458 --> 00:26:36,833 But they featured you as an Air Force... 578 00:26:36,875 --> 00:26:38,292 -Correct. -...drill sergeant. 579 00:26:38,375 --> 00:26:40,750 -Right. -And, in fact, 580 00:26:40,875 --> 00:26:43,375 didn't the Air Force provide some pictures of you 581 00:26:43,458 --> 00:26:44,708 -Correct. -..to "Playboy"? 582 00:26:44,833 --> 00:26:46,292 Yes. 583 00:26:46,375 --> 00:26:49,958 "Playboy" wanted approval to use photos when I was serving. 584 00:26:50,042 --> 00:26:51,750 And so those photos were checked off that, 585 00:26:51,833 --> 00:26:53,833 yes, these are real. They're not fake, you know? 586 00:26:53,917 --> 00:26:55,542 GUERRERO: The military approved these photos? 587 00:26:55,625 --> 00:26:57,167 Mm-hmm. Yeah, these are real photos. 588 00:26:57,208 --> 00:26:58,583 -These are not, like-- -For "Playboy"? 589 00:26:58,667 --> 00:27:00,375 -Yeah. -So you actually told 590 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,292 your supervisor that you were going to pose for "Playboy"? 591 00:27:03,375 --> 00:27:05,792 -Yes. -And they approved this? 592 00:27:05,875 --> 00:27:07,125 Yes. 593 00:27:07,208 --> 00:27:08,542 Wow. 594 00:27:08,667 --> 00:27:10,375 I was never given 595 00:27:10,375 --> 00:27:14,333 any idea that anything was going to be wrong with this. 596 00:27:14,375 --> 00:27:17,500 There was no red flags. 597 00:27:17,542 --> 00:27:18,833 So, but you're proud of the pictures? 598 00:27:18,875 --> 00:27:20,625 -Yes. -You're excited about it. 599 00:27:20,708 --> 00:27:22,958 My spread was called "Tough Love." 600 00:27:23,042 --> 00:27:23,833 "Tough Love." 601 00:27:23,917 --> 00:27:25,833 -"Tough Love." -Yeah. 602 00:27:25,958 --> 00:27:29,875 And my issue of "Playboy" came out in February of 2007. 603 00:27:29,958 --> 00:27:31,750 So, they sent me an early copy, 604 00:27:31,833 --> 00:27:33,708 which I think is what they do most of the time. 605 00:27:33,792 --> 00:27:36,833 I took that copy into my supervisor 606 00:27:36,917 --> 00:27:41,375 to let him see it, and it went from there to his boss. 607 00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:44,125 And I wasn't really given any thought 608 00:27:44,208 --> 00:27:45,458 that anything was wrong, 609 00:27:45,542 --> 00:27:47,583 but I just felt the air was weird. 610 00:27:47,583 --> 00:27:50,542 Went in the next day, went to my supervisor, 611 00:27:50,542 --> 00:27:51,833 and I, you know, asked, um, 612 00:27:51,917 --> 00:27:53,583 "Hey, I left that magazine with you. 613 00:27:53,667 --> 00:27:55,292 I just need to make sure I get it back." 614 00:27:55,375 --> 00:27:56,750 And he said, "Okay, well, 615 00:27:56,875 --> 00:27:58,708 we're having a discussion about it." 616 00:27:58,792 --> 00:28:01,417 And by the end of the day, 617 00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,125 my whole life was flipped upside down. 618 00:28:04,208 --> 00:28:06,792 Later, they walked in, 619 00:28:06,875 --> 00:28:09,833 told me that I needed to remove my campaign hat, 620 00:28:09,875 --> 00:28:13,000 that I needed to, um, not report back to work. 621 00:28:13,083 --> 00:28:15,125 I was gonna report to somewhere different. 622 00:28:15,208 --> 00:28:18,500 Your bosses then make it very clear 623 00:28:18,583 --> 00:28:20,167 that you're in big trouble. 624 00:28:20,292 --> 00:28:21,833 They said, "We're opening an investigation on you." 625 00:28:21,875 --> 00:28:23,875 -Ooh. -And I-I was like, 626 00:28:23,958 --> 00:28:27,125 "Ooh, an investigation. On what? I've given you a previous copy. 627 00:28:27,208 --> 00:28:29,833 I've told you everything. You were well aware of it. 628 00:28:29,917 --> 00:28:32,333 What could you possibly investigate?" 629 00:28:32,375 --> 00:28:35,208 I didn't know what was going on. They wouldn't tell me anything. 630 00:28:35,292 --> 00:28:40,000 For the next, probably week, uh, no one would talk to me. 631 00:28:40,042 --> 00:28:44,167 And that is when the magazine came out. 632 00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:47,167 GUERRERO: Tell me about the reaction from the public. 633 00:28:47,208 --> 00:28:51,333 MICHELLE: So, the public was actually very supportive. 634 00:28:51,375 --> 00:28:52,833 Very supportive. 635 00:28:52,917 --> 00:28:55,583 They were like, "this is awesome." 636 00:28:55,667 --> 00:28:57,875 But to the bosses, this wasn't great. 637 00:28:57,875 --> 00:29:00,458 It was like, "This is unacceptable. 638 00:29:00,542 --> 00:29:02,833 This is unbecoming of-- of an NCO." 639 00:29:06,958 --> 00:29:09,125 I-I guess something that I didn't think about 640 00:29:09,208 --> 00:29:11,750 is how this would make other women 641 00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:14,208 in the Air Force feel. 642 00:29:14,333 --> 00:29:17,333 And one of them even said that, "She"--myself-- 643 00:29:17,375 --> 00:29:20,167 "has set women in the military back 200 years." 644 00:29:20,292 --> 00:29:22,917 How did that make you feel, to hear that? 645 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,042 It hurt, because I thought I was doing something right. 646 00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:30,417 My commander at the time was a female. 647 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:32,875 She said, "I was so proud of you, 648 00:29:32,958 --> 00:29:35,667 and now I have lost all respect for you," 649 00:29:35,708 --> 00:29:37,542 and that probably hit me more than anything, 650 00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:41,042 because she knows how passionate that I was for the military. 651 00:29:41,125 --> 00:29:43,750 For her to say those things based off of a photograph, 652 00:29:43,833 --> 00:29:45,875 that hit. That hit hard. 653 00:29:45,875 --> 00:29:47,917 And then on the base that I was at, there were people, 654 00:29:48,042 --> 00:29:49,833 you know, pointing, staring, talking, whispering. 655 00:29:49,875 --> 00:29:51,792 And finally I found out from a friend 656 00:29:51,875 --> 00:29:54,167 that everyone I worked with 657 00:29:54,250 --> 00:29:56,083 was given a direct order not to speak to me. 658 00:29:56,167 --> 00:29:57,958 ♪ 659 00:29:58,042 --> 00:30:00,333 -So, you were shunned. -Oh, it was a horrible feeling. 660 00:30:00,417 --> 00:30:02,292 And then after that, 661 00:30:02,375 --> 00:30:05,000 they told me that their investigation was over, 662 00:30:05,125 --> 00:30:08,000 and they were going to punish me under the UCMJ-- 663 00:30:08,083 --> 00:30:09,625 Uniform Code of Military Justice, 664 00:30:09,708 --> 00:30:11,167 which is the laws that we must abide by 665 00:30:11,250 --> 00:30:12,917 under the weight management section, and-- 666 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,167 Wait, like you were overweight or underweight? 667 00:30:15,250 --> 00:30:16,833 So the weight management program is all about, like, 668 00:30:16,875 --> 00:30:19,000 "having a good appearance" for the military. 669 00:30:19,042 --> 00:30:22,792 Nothing in there did I fall under. Nothing. 670 00:30:22,875 --> 00:30:26,458 But because it was "not becoming of an NCO" 671 00:30:26,542 --> 00:30:30,417 to look that way is how they were able to, like, use that. 672 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:33,708 So, I ended up not completing and finishing out 673 00:30:33,708 --> 00:30:35,833 with the time, but I was enlisted. 674 00:30:35,917 --> 00:30:39,375 They were just like, "We don't need you anymore." 675 00:30:39,458 --> 00:30:41,042 -So, you were discharged? -Yes, honorably-- 676 00:30:41,125 --> 00:30:43,042 -Honorably discharged. -Yes. 677 00:30:43,167 --> 00:30:46,458 But you were never allowed to wear your uniform again. 678 00:30:46,542 --> 00:30:47,667 No. 679 00:30:47,792 --> 00:30:49,875 Being discharged is something 680 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,625 I will never forget. 681 00:30:51,708 --> 00:30:53,958 That was the hardest moment for me. 682 00:30:58,833 --> 00:31:00,958 When you posed for "Playboy," you were honorably discharged... 683 00:31:01,042 --> 00:31:02,625 -Yes. -...by the Air Force. 684 00:31:02,708 --> 00:31:04,542 Correct. But I didn't break any rules. 685 00:31:04,625 --> 00:31:06,000 I didn't do anything wrong. 686 00:31:06,042 --> 00:31:08,208 Did I maybe upset some people? Yes. 687 00:31:08,292 --> 00:31:11,708 From the time you are 16 years old, 17 years old, 688 00:31:11,708 --> 00:31:13,750 the Air Force is your family. 689 00:31:13,833 --> 00:31:16,042 -Right. -How painful was it 690 00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:20,375 to lose your military family in this way? 691 00:31:20,458 --> 00:31:22,792 Um, I went through a lot of emotions. 692 00:31:22,875 --> 00:31:25,667 There's a special camaraderie that comes 693 00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:27,167 with being in the military 694 00:31:27,208 --> 00:31:29,000 because, you know at the end of the day, 695 00:31:29,042 --> 00:31:30,667 when you're standing on that line, 696 00:31:30,792 --> 00:31:32,083 they've got your back. 697 00:31:32,167 --> 00:31:34,833 So, yeah, I miss the camaraderie. 698 00:31:34,917 --> 00:31:36,583 I miss the family, but at the same time, 699 00:31:36,708 --> 00:31:40,167 I was very angry because I fought 700 00:31:40,208 --> 00:31:44,958 for our country and for the First Amendment right. 701 00:31:45,042 --> 00:31:48,333 But I myself can't have that? That's unacceptable. 702 00:31:48,417 --> 00:31:53,417 So I thought, the Air Force is no longer for me. 703 00:31:56,542 --> 00:31:58,167 I felt betrayed. 704 00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:01,000 I felt like I was being thrown away again, you know? 705 00:32:01,042 --> 00:32:03,583 It was kind of like my childhood was coming back around. 706 00:32:03,667 --> 00:32:06,625 Oh, I did something wrong, so just kick me out, you know? 707 00:32:06,708 --> 00:32:08,750 My mom kicked me out. Now the Air Force kicks me out. 708 00:32:08,875 --> 00:32:11,833 But I've given you 14 years of my life. 709 00:32:11,917 --> 00:32:13,333 I've given you a lot of time that I missed out 710 00:32:13,375 --> 00:32:14,833 with my children. 711 00:32:14,875 --> 00:32:16,875 I've given you so much of my heart and soul, 712 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,833 and my body aches all the time 713 00:32:18,917 --> 00:32:20,167 from all the stuff I've been through. 714 00:32:20,208 --> 00:32:22,667 I felt unwanted, unneeded. 715 00:32:22,750 --> 00:32:24,417 I felt again, I had no purpose. 716 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:27,333 I had nothing else. 717 00:32:27,417 --> 00:32:29,042 That's all I knew. 718 00:32:30,333 --> 00:32:32,000 I think at first 719 00:32:32,083 --> 00:32:33,917 there was a grieving process, 720 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,542 you know, 'cause I've lost my identity. 721 00:32:35,667 --> 00:32:38,333 I've lost who I was, and I had to become a new person. 722 00:32:38,417 --> 00:32:43,000 But there were times, um, like on Veterans Day 723 00:32:43,167 --> 00:32:46,333 when, um, my husband got to go speak to our child's school. 724 00:32:46,458 --> 00:32:48,250 That was very tough 725 00:32:48,333 --> 00:32:50,208 'cause I didn't get asked to come speak. 726 00:32:50,292 --> 00:32:52,167 Even though I was still a veteran, 727 00:32:52,250 --> 00:32:54,333 I didn't get asked to put my uniform on and come speak. 728 00:32:54,417 --> 00:32:55,792 They asked him. 729 00:32:55,875 --> 00:32:57,958 ♪ 730 00:32:58,042 --> 00:33:00,000 Even now when I-- when I've gone to my-- 731 00:33:00,083 --> 00:33:02,625 both of my children have graduated basic training 732 00:33:02,708 --> 00:33:04,125 and their tech schools-- 733 00:33:04,208 --> 00:33:06,667 going and not being in my uniform for them, 734 00:33:06,708 --> 00:33:09,125 those are hard. Hard. 735 00:33:09,208 --> 00:33:11,417 Those hit me the worst. 736 00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:14,083 ♪ 737 00:33:14,167 --> 00:33:17,208 Serving our country was a big honor. 738 00:33:17,292 --> 00:33:20,000 I was very proud to be able to have that honor. 739 00:33:20,167 --> 00:33:22,458 But then I was stripped of that honor. 740 00:33:22,458 --> 00:33:25,042 I was stripped of what was mine, 741 00:33:25,125 --> 00:33:28,500 something that was finally mine, something that I earned, 742 00:33:28,583 --> 00:33:31,375 something that I worked really hard to get. 743 00:33:31,375 --> 00:33:35,125 And it was stripped away from me because I posed in "Playboy." 744 00:33:40,458 --> 00:33:43,375 ♪ 745 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:47,042 Carol and Michelle, before you posed for "Playboy," 746 00:33:47,125 --> 00:33:51,375 both of you were thriving in male-dominated fields. 747 00:33:51,458 --> 00:33:54,167 You were a drill sergeant. You were a cop. 748 00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:58,292 And both of you were fired or dismissed, essentially, 749 00:33:58,375 --> 00:34:00,917 after having posed for "Playboy." 750 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,333 To me, it's infuriating to hear your stories. 751 00:34:03,417 --> 00:34:05,417 Honestly, I feel furious for you. 752 00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:08,083 CAROL: I felt like that for a long time. 753 00:34:08,208 --> 00:34:11,417 I was angry for a really long time, 754 00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:13,667 and I had a resentment in me. 755 00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:18,125 I was bitter, and I think that came from a lot of hurt. 756 00:34:18,208 --> 00:34:20,667 -How about you, Michelle? -I'm upset, of course, 757 00:34:20,708 --> 00:34:23,333 at the end of the day that I didn't get to finish that goal 758 00:34:23,375 --> 00:34:25,583 I set out to do-- that large, 20-year goal, 759 00:34:25,667 --> 00:34:28,125 and in the long run, I guess I just now make smaller goals 760 00:34:28,208 --> 00:34:30,250 so they're always obtainable. 761 00:34:30,333 --> 00:34:32,708 That's sad to me. Like, why should you make smaller goals? 762 00:34:32,792 --> 00:34:35,125 Right. I mean, you're-- you're--you are correct. 763 00:34:35,208 --> 00:34:36,542 I'm sad that my career ended. 764 00:34:36,625 --> 00:34:38,042 I would like it to have been different, 765 00:34:38,167 --> 00:34:39,875 but I can't change the past. 766 00:34:39,958 --> 00:34:43,542 You know, I always say, what did we do that was so wrong? 767 00:34:43,542 --> 00:34:47,458 Maybe we got-- attracted too much attention. 768 00:34:47,542 --> 00:34:52,500 Well, that attention also created a huge spotlight. 769 00:34:52,625 --> 00:34:55,542 Do you think more women were made aware 770 00:34:55,625 --> 00:34:59,500 of the potential of being a cop or in the Air Force 771 00:34:59,583 --> 00:35:02,083 because of you posing and all the attention you got? 772 00:35:02,167 --> 00:35:04,583 I know firsthand that's the case, because I-- 773 00:35:04,667 --> 00:35:06,250 -You were told that. -I was told it. 774 00:35:06,375 --> 00:35:09,875 I got millions of phone calls back in the day. 775 00:35:09,958 --> 00:35:11,667 I still get messages 776 00:35:11,708 --> 00:35:14,042 and Facebook messages from people saying, 777 00:35:14,125 --> 00:35:16,792 "Oh, I became a cop because of you. 778 00:35:16,875 --> 00:35:20,708 I didn't think I could do it, but when I saw that you did it, 779 00:35:20,708 --> 00:35:22,583 I felt empowered to do it." And I bet you, 780 00:35:22,583 --> 00:35:24,500 you get a lot of messages like that. 781 00:35:24,583 --> 00:35:26,542 Maybe they're not looking at joining the Air Force, 782 00:35:26,667 --> 00:35:29,875 but they--I feel that my pictorial more 783 00:35:29,958 --> 00:35:31,417 brought them to say, "Oh, I can go out 784 00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:33,208 and be a tomboy and still..." -Right. 785 00:35:33,292 --> 00:35:34,667 ...you know, kind of a thing 786 00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:36,833 instead of being held to this one standard. 787 00:35:36,875 --> 00:35:39,417 I'm sure not one single woman decided not to be 788 00:35:39,542 --> 00:35:41,458 in the Air Force because you posed nude. 789 00:35:41,542 --> 00:35:42,625 -Is that fair to say? -I would say yes. 790 00:35:42,708 --> 00:35:44,333 Yeah. 791 00:35:44,375 --> 00:35:48,250 What does me or--or Carol getting naked in a magazine 792 00:35:48,333 --> 00:35:51,792 have to do with whether or not we can do our jobs? 793 00:35:51,875 --> 00:35:53,375 ♪♪ 794 00:35:53,458 --> 00:35:56,958 My oath was not to not have a life 795 00:35:57,042 --> 00:35:59,833 and not be able to be me, 796 00:35:59,917 --> 00:36:02,500 to be a woman, to shelter myself. 797 00:36:02,583 --> 00:36:07,542 My oath was to protect and serve. 798 00:36:07,542 --> 00:36:09,833 What is me taking my clothes off 799 00:36:09,958 --> 00:36:13,042 have to do with me being able 800 00:36:13,167 --> 00:36:16,583 to protect and serve the community? 801 00:36:16,667 --> 00:36:19,000 In your case, Michelle, you had spent 802 00:36:19,083 --> 00:36:23,875 14 years doing this, and you loved your job. 803 00:36:23,958 --> 00:36:24,875 The other members of the Air Force 804 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,792 felt like your family, 805 00:36:26,875 --> 00:36:28,667 when you were coming from a place 806 00:36:28,708 --> 00:36:31,875 where you didn't have a family, so I'm sure, if nothing else, 807 00:36:31,958 --> 00:36:34,000 being fired, it was shocking. 808 00:36:34,083 --> 00:36:35,875 -To say the least, yeah. -Yeah. 809 00:36:35,875 --> 00:36:40,167 ♪ 810 00:36:40,292 --> 00:36:42,333 I'll just say that I-- 811 00:36:42,375 --> 00:36:43,750 there were times I wasn't in a good place. 812 00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:45,500 You know? 813 00:36:45,542 --> 00:36:47,625 And typically when we leave the military, 814 00:36:47,708 --> 00:36:50,000 there is a whole process that goes with leaving the military. 815 00:36:50,042 --> 00:36:51,500 Even if you're kicked out, 816 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:53,083 let's say you committed a murder, 817 00:36:53,167 --> 00:36:54,458 I did not receive that. 818 00:36:54,542 --> 00:36:56,750 -Wow. -I was in the military one day, 819 00:36:56,833 --> 00:36:59,333 and literally at 7 a.m., 820 00:36:59,417 --> 00:37:01,208 I got a phone call from my lawyer that said, 821 00:37:01,292 --> 00:37:04,125 "Hey, guess what? You're no longer in the military." 822 00:37:04,208 --> 00:37:06,167 So I'm just gonna say there were times 823 00:37:06,208 --> 00:37:07,792 I was not in a good place. 824 00:37:07,875 --> 00:37:09,708 ♪ 825 00:37:15,875 --> 00:37:17,667 -We're gonna bring in a video... -CAROL: Okay. 826 00:37:17,708 --> 00:37:19,333 -...that we wanna show you guys. -Oh. 827 00:37:19,417 --> 00:37:20,333 And get your response to this... 828 00:37:20,458 --> 00:37:22,542 -Okay. -...on the back end. 829 00:37:22,625 --> 00:37:25,667 Melissa Williams still operates her OnlyFans page. 830 00:37:25,708 --> 00:37:27,542 It's a popular website where people can post photos 831 00:37:27,667 --> 00:37:30,417 and videos for their money-paying subscribers, 832 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:32,625 and the content is often sexual in nature. 833 00:37:32,708 --> 00:37:35,792 Melissa Williams spent 28 years in law enforcement, 834 00:37:35,917 --> 00:37:38,000 but away from work, she could be found 835 00:37:38,042 --> 00:37:41,500 on her OnlyFans page wearing little and sometimes nothing. 836 00:37:41,583 --> 00:37:43,750 Co-workers did find out and filed a complaint, 837 00:37:43,833 --> 00:37:46,458 stating, "Lieutenant Williams' poor judgment 838 00:37:46,542 --> 00:37:48,167 was a discredit to the Sheriff's Office." 839 00:37:48,250 --> 00:37:50,333 Did you ever think about applying 840 00:37:50,375 --> 00:37:52,125 for secondary employment from the Sheriff's Department? 841 00:37:52,208 --> 00:37:55,542 No, because it was never started to make money. 842 00:37:55,625 --> 00:37:57,167 It just happened to make money. 843 00:37:57,208 --> 00:38:00,833 But rather than face an Internal Affairs investigation, 844 00:38:00,917 --> 00:38:04,750 she agreed to a $30,000 release agreement to retire. 845 00:38:04,875 --> 00:38:06,958 WILLIAMS: I did not leave out of shame. 846 00:38:07,042 --> 00:38:09,917 It was the right thing for myself and my family. 847 00:38:12,125 --> 00:38:14,042 This just happened recently. 848 00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:16,167 -[sighs] -2021. 849 00:38:16,208 --> 00:38:18,708 I am dying to know what the two of you 850 00:38:18,833 --> 00:38:20,833 think about this story. 851 00:38:20,875 --> 00:38:22,333 Let's start with you. 852 00:38:22,458 --> 00:38:24,000 I can see in your face you have something to say. 853 00:38:24,083 --> 00:38:26,292 [laughs] I'm, like, angry. Uh... 854 00:38:26,375 --> 00:38:31,833 I just don't understand what she did wrong. 855 00:38:31,917 --> 00:38:34,000 Something that was told to me, which I'm sure was told to you 856 00:38:34,083 --> 00:38:35,708 and was told to her, is that, 857 00:38:35,792 --> 00:38:37,167 "Oh, people aren't gonna respect you." 858 00:38:37,208 --> 00:38:38,833 CAROL: Right. 859 00:38:38,875 --> 00:38:40,583 "Oh, they've seen this other side of you." 860 00:38:40,667 --> 00:38:42,000 [stammers] This frustrates me. Can you tell? 861 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,667 -[laughs] -A person can go out 862 00:38:43,792 --> 00:38:47,292 on a Friday night and go home with five different people. 863 00:38:47,375 --> 00:38:49,000 You're not getting in trouble for that. 864 00:38:49,083 --> 00:38:52,208 I mean, we're--I don't understand where this line is 865 00:38:52,292 --> 00:38:54,042 that, "Oh, this is wrong. Oh, well, because, 866 00:38:54,125 --> 00:38:55,792 oh, people are gonna see you on that, and then they're-- 867 00:38:55,875 --> 00:38:57,625 you're gonna be in uniform, and they're gonna think, 868 00:38:57,708 --> 00:38:59,542 "Oh, I don't have to listen to you beca--" 869 00:38:59,625 --> 00:39:02,167 This shows that nothing has changed. 870 00:39:02,208 --> 00:39:03,792 Carol, what did you think? 871 00:39:03,875 --> 00:39:05,500 Now she's making money 872 00:39:05,583 --> 00:39:08,375 and did not seek off-duty employment, 873 00:39:08,458 --> 00:39:12,958 so the department used that to come after her. 874 00:39:13,042 --> 00:39:16,583 Okay, so this gets to one of the things that frustrates me. 875 00:39:16,708 --> 00:39:20,625 It seems like they are trying to find some clause... 876 00:39:20,708 --> 00:39:22,625 -That's what they do. -...some rule that they broke 877 00:39:22,708 --> 00:39:26,292 because they can't just say, "I think you're a slut." 878 00:39:26,375 --> 00:39:27,583 Right. 879 00:39:27,667 --> 00:39:29,417 They're not allowed to say that. 880 00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:30,667 They can't fire you for that. So instead they say, 881 00:39:30,792 --> 00:39:32,500 "Oh, she didn't fill out the proper form, 882 00:39:32,583 --> 00:39:35,500 and she's making money doing this." Isn't that crazy? 883 00:39:35,542 --> 00:39:36,708 -That's ridiculous. -It is crazy. 884 00:39:36,792 --> 00:39:38,583 Like you said, they're finding, 885 00:39:38,667 --> 00:39:40,292 you know, a string to pull at. -Right. 886 00:39:40,375 --> 00:39:41,750 Because what if she sat at home 887 00:39:41,833 --> 00:39:43,417 and made cups in her off-duty time, 888 00:39:43,542 --> 00:39:45,208 and she sold those? 889 00:39:45,292 --> 00:39:46,667 Would that be considered off-duty employment, 890 00:39:46,833 --> 00:39:49,375 or is it just because it's of a sexual nature? 891 00:39:49,458 --> 00:39:51,417 I think you're getting at something really interesting. 892 00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:54,583 What I feel like is the center of this is the fact that 893 00:39:54,667 --> 00:39:56,917 it's extremely upsetting for men in power 894 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,208 to see women using their sexuality to make money 895 00:40:00,292 --> 00:40:01,667 online or in magazines. 896 00:40:01,708 --> 00:40:04,292 But they don't have a problem looking at it. 897 00:40:04,375 --> 00:40:06,167 -Who's looking at it? Men. -Men. [laughs] 898 00:40:06,250 --> 00:40:07,708 Predominantly. I mean, now, everybody. 899 00:40:07,833 --> 00:40:10,125 -Yeah. [laughs] -But, yes, double standards. 900 00:40:10,208 --> 00:40:11,917 So many double standards, which we've been talking about... 901 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,667 -CAROL: Yeah. -...this entire episode. 902 00:40:13,708 --> 00:40:16,708 And when I look at you, it makes me wonder, 903 00:40:16,833 --> 00:40:19,125 the fact that you were in these male-dominated industries 904 00:40:19,208 --> 00:40:20,875 and doing so well, 905 00:40:20,958 --> 00:40:23,833 do you think that-- that kind of strikes fear 906 00:40:23,917 --> 00:40:25,625 into men especially? 907 00:40:25,708 --> 00:40:28,792 I'm not gonna say fear. I'm gonna say we intimidate them. 908 00:40:28,875 --> 00:40:30,958 But then when this happened to us, 909 00:40:31,042 --> 00:40:33,542 we had superior men that came in and said, 910 00:40:33,625 --> 00:40:36,417 "Ha ha, you thought you were the 'A' dog. 911 00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:37,833 Now I'm gonna come in and take over 912 00:40:37,875 --> 00:40:39,750 and show you what it's really like." 913 00:40:39,833 --> 00:40:42,792 Well, I wanna say that I appreciate you being here, 914 00:40:42,875 --> 00:40:46,625 and I really appreciate you guys clearing up a lot of things. 915 00:40:46,708 --> 00:40:48,958 And this is your opportunity, finally, 916 00:40:49,042 --> 00:40:54,375 to say what is important that you leave behind today. Carol? 917 00:40:54,458 --> 00:40:56,625 For me, honestly, it's just 918 00:40:56,708 --> 00:40:59,000 I kind of feel like I turned the table 919 00:40:59,083 --> 00:41:04,250 from cop to perpetrator when I posed for "Playboy." 920 00:41:04,333 --> 00:41:06,500 Meanwhile, I risked my life. 921 00:41:06,583 --> 00:41:09,458 I did so much for that job, 922 00:41:09,542 --> 00:41:12,000 and I was proud of it, 923 00:41:12,083 --> 00:41:15,667 and I never thought twice when I was risking my life. 924 00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:18,542 But yet here I am kind of feeling like I'm being treated 925 00:41:18,625 --> 00:41:20,333 like a perpetrator. 926 00:41:20,417 --> 00:41:24,000 We've talked a lot about what happened to you in the Air Force 927 00:41:24,042 --> 00:41:27,125 and what happened to that 14-year career. 928 00:41:27,208 --> 00:41:31,042 What do you want people to know about you and your journey? 929 00:41:31,125 --> 00:41:33,708 I want people to know that I'm not mad at the military 930 00:41:33,792 --> 00:41:36,417 in the sense of I'm very proud that I was able to serve. 931 00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:39,542 I am upset at the decisions 932 00:41:39,625 --> 00:41:43,500 of those that were assigned above me. 933 00:41:43,542 --> 00:41:46,375 If I was under, you know, a different area, 934 00:41:46,458 --> 00:41:48,333 maybe the results would have been different. 935 00:41:48,333 --> 00:41:49,917 ♪ 936 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,542 Wearing my uniform gave me a purpose 937 00:41:52,625 --> 00:41:54,708 and made me real, 938 00:41:54,792 --> 00:41:59,875 made me human, made me important. 939 00:41:59,958 --> 00:42:02,667 I was very proud to be able to have that honor, 940 00:42:02,750 --> 00:42:04,583 but then I was stripped of that honor 941 00:42:04,708 --> 00:42:08,042 because I posed in "Playboy." 942 00:42:08,167 --> 00:42:13,833 CAROL: This is me the day that I turned in my gun and shield. 943 00:42:13,917 --> 00:42:17,042 That was a very emotional day for me, 944 00:42:17,167 --> 00:42:22,542 so it kind of chokes me up a little bit seeing it. 945 00:42:22,625 --> 00:42:25,625 I felt like my heart was ripped out of my chest. 946 00:42:25,625 --> 00:42:29,708 So, losing my uniform after I posed for "Playboy" 947 00:42:29,792 --> 00:42:32,542 really felt like I lost a part of me. 948 00:42:32,625 --> 00:42:35,000 A lot of heartache came from that. 949 00:42:35,042 --> 00:42:37,417 I lost my suit of armor, 950 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:40,917 and I will never wrap my head around why. 951 00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:48,625 I met the standard of beauty on one criteria, 952 00:42:48,708 --> 00:42:52,625 but on other criteria, I was not even in the ballpark. 953 00:42:52,708 --> 00:42:56,417 Did Black women fit "Playboy's" standard of beauty? 954 00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:58,667 No. It looked like S&M. 955 00:42:58,708 --> 00:43:00,583 That's not someone you put on a pedestal. 956 00:43:00,667 --> 00:43:02,708 You just have sex with that person. 957 00:43:02,708 --> 00:43:05,833 When they decided to hire me, people were like, 958 00:43:05,917 --> 00:43:08,792 "This is disgusting. She's horrible." 959 00:43:08,875 --> 00:43:10,333 We shattered the idea that 960 00:43:10,375 --> 00:43:12,542 there's a perfect ideal of beauty.