1 00:00:00,176 --> 00:00:02,843 (waves lashing) 2 00:00:05,950 --> 00:00:09,617 (dramatic orchestral music) 3 00:00:14,150 --> 00:00:17,400 (mellow strings music) 4 00:00:19,979 --> 00:00:24,348 Narrator: What happens in the mind of con artists? 5 00:00:24,348 --> 00:00:27,253 What makes their brain so well-equipped 6 00:00:27,253 --> 00:00:29,503 for psychological trickery? 7 00:00:31,301 --> 00:00:32,301 Is it greed? 8 00:00:33,585 --> 00:00:35,085 A lack of empathy? 9 00:00:35,956 --> 00:00:37,039 Loose morals? 10 00:00:39,420 --> 00:00:42,253 Whatever it is, we are fascinated, like con artists. 11 00:00:44,462 --> 00:00:48,129 (dramatic orchestral music) 12 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:06,188 Anchor: In 2004, Jan Lewan, 13 00:01:06,188 --> 00:01:08,009 also known as the "Polka King", 14 00:01:08,009 --> 00:01:10,863 was arrested and charged with securities fraud. 15 00:01:10,863 --> 00:01:13,635 Lewan was sentenced to five years in prison. 16 00:01:13,635 --> 00:01:15,432 Anchor: Jan Lewan is a Polish-American 17 00:01:15,432 --> 00:01:17,146 Grammy-nominated polka musician 18 00:01:17,146 --> 00:01:19,764 who performed for Donald Trump, Ronald Reagan, 19 00:01:19,764 --> 00:01:22,931 and even befriended Pope John Paul II. 20 00:01:23,790 --> 00:01:25,341 Reporter: His investors were elderly members 21 00:01:25,341 --> 00:01:28,702 of the Polish-American community, mostly polka fans. 22 00:01:28,702 --> 00:01:32,416 Lewan's financial crimes were described as Ponzi schemes. 23 00:01:32,416 --> 00:01:34,416 Reporter: He defrauded over 400 people 24 00:01:34,416 --> 00:01:37,354 in 22 states, of millions of dollars. 25 00:01:37,354 --> 00:01:39,916 Lewan's American dream was built on the backs 26 00:01:39,916 --> 00:01:42,657 and bank accounts of his biggest fans. 27 00:01:42,657 --> 00:01:45,605 (dramatic orchestral music) 28 00:01:45,605 --> 00:01:49,105 ♪ The judge said harshly, You going to jail ♪ 29 00:01:50,111 --> 00:01:53,778 (dramatic orchestral music) 30 00:02:09,636 --> 00:02:12,122 Narrator: We've all been lied to. 31 00:02:12,122 --> 00:02:14,081 We've all been offered something 32 00:02:14,081 --> 00:02:16,967 that is just too good to be true, 33 00:02:16,967 --> 00:02:19,134 and still, we fell for it. 34 00:02:20,026 --> 00:02:22,055 Although we love a good con, 35 00:02:22,055 --> 00:02:25,351 we hate it when it happens to us. 36 00:02:25,351 --> 00:02:28,053 To find out how to resist the manipulation, 37 00:02:28,053 --> 00:02:30,589 we invited some of the greatest con artists 38 00:02:30,589 --> 00:02:32,322 to our Institute. 39 00:02:32,322 --> 00:02:34,371 Together with a team of experts, 40 00:02:34,371 --> 00:02:36,709 we are going to analyze their stories, 41 00:02:36,709 --> 00:02:38,642 pick their brains, and reveal 42 00:02:38,642 --> 00:02:41,874 what their body language tells us. 43 00:02:41,874 --> 00:02:43,957 Welcome to the Institute. 44 00:02:45,372 --> 00:02:49,022 (soft pensive music) 45 00:02:49,022 --> 00:02:51,536 -: Hello, Mr. Lewan. -: Hi, hi. 46 00:02:51,536 --> 00:02:53,244 -: Hi, how was your flight? 47 00:02:53,244 --> 00:02:57,439 -: Great, great, I slept whole night and ready to go. 48 00:02:57,439 --> 00:02:58,487 -: Wonderful. 49 00:02:58,487 --> 00:03:00,956 They are waiting you in the meeting room, shall we? 50 00:03:00,956 --> 00:03:02,289 -: Yes, let's go. 51 00:03:05,130 --> 00:03:06,195 Well, good morning. 52 00:03:06,195 --> 00:03:08,427 Kerry: Hello, Mr. Lewan, hello. 53 00:03:08,427 --> 00:03:09,278 Jan: Hello, hello. 54 00:03:09,278 --> 00:03:11,177 -: Have a seat. -: Thank you. 55 00:03:11,177 --> 00:03:13,473 -: And welcome to the Institute. 56 00:03:13,473 --> 00:03:15,285 I know you've had a long journey, 57 00:03:15,285 --> 00:03:18,349 so we're really very grateful that you can be with us. 58 00:03:18,349 --> 00:03:20,880 Let me do the introductions. 59 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,604 I'm Kerry Daynes and I'm a consultant forensic psychologist. 60 00:03:25,604 --> 00:03:29,253 I would love to talk to you about your social history, 61 00:03:29,253 --> 00:03:32,916 all the events in your life that have shaped you. 62 00:03:32,916 --> 00:03:34,503 And this is Mark Frank. 63 00:03:34,503 --> 00:03:38,589 Mark is a professor of behavioral science. 64 00:03:38,589 --> 00:03:39,953 -: I would like to observe you 65 00:03:39,953 --> 00:03:41,947 as far as your behavioral stuff 66 00:03:41,947 --> 00:03:44,739 and how that correlates to how you think, 67 00:03:44,739 --> 00:03:46,805 how you process, what you feel. 68 00:03:46,805 --> 00:03:48,801 In other ways, just to try to understand 69 00:03:48,801 --> 00:03:50,942 a little bit better about who you are. 70 00:03:50,942 --> 00:03:54,808 -: Yeah, I'll be more than happy to cooperate with ya. 71 00:03:54,808 --> 00:03:58,179 -: And this is Moran Cerf and he is a professor 72 00:03:58,179 --> 00:04:00,618 of neuroscience and business. 73 00:04:00,618 --> 00:04:04,098 -: I'll try to learn from you how you think. 74 00:04:04,098 --> 00:04:06,221 I'm gonna do it by having you play games. 75 00:04:06,221 --> 00:04:08,639 And I'm gonna look at your brain while you do that, 76 00:04:08,639 --> 00:04:10,206 so I can understand how you think 77 00:04:10,206 --> 00:04:13,249 and how we can think when we interact with you. 78 00:04:13,249 --> 00:04:14,457 -: I understand. 79 00:04:14,457 --> 00:04:16,747 Yeah, go for it (chuckles). 80 00:04:16,747 --> 00:04:18,370 -: It's important for me to say 81 00:04:18,370 --> 00:04:21,617 that we're not here to be your doctors. 82 00:04:21,617 --> 00:04:23,381 We're not here to give you therapy, 83 00:04:23,381 --> 00:04:26,008 and we're certainly not here to diagnose you, 84 00:04:26,008 --> 00:04:28,422 but we just want to understand as much 85 00:04:28,422 --> 00:04:31,505 as we possibly can about con artists. 86 00:04:32,744 --> 00:04:36,295 For now, I think you can take a look around the Institute, 87 00:04:36,295 --> 00:04:40,394 and then in a few hours, I will have an interview with you 88 00:04:40,394 --> 00:04:41,773 and you will have the opportunity 89 00:04:41,773 --> 00:04:43,679 to tell your story as you see it. 90 00:04:43,679 --> 00:04:45,536 -: Thank you, it was nice meeting you 91 00:04:45,536 --> 00:04:46,576 and looking forward. 92 00:04:46,576 --> 00:04:48,100 Yes, see you later. -: Bye-bye. 93 00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:50,719 -: Bye-bye. -: See you later. 94 00:04:50,719 --> 00:04:53,802 (soft pensive music) 95 00:05:00,169 --> 00:05:03,752 (pensive music crescendos) 96 00:05:12,315 --> 00:05:15,813 -: When I met Jan Lewan, I met a person 97 00:05:15,813 --> 00:05:18,126 who was delightful to speak to, 98 00:05:18,126 --> 00:05:19,757 who was very entertaining. 99 00:05:19,757 --> 00:05:21,365 He had a twinkle in his eye. 100 00:05:21,365 --> 00:05:23,841 He was so upbeat, so positive, 101 00:05:23,841 --> 00:05:26,906 but after we did further investigation, 102 00:05:26,906 --> 00:05:29,530 after we found out that he knew 103 00:05:29,530 --> 00:05:32,063 that he was selling an investment 104 00:05:32,063 --> 00:05:34,253 that he had no business selling, 105 00:05:34,253 --> 00:05:38,300 that his businesses were simply not making money, 106 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:40,514 we thought this innocent lamb 107 00:05:40,514 --> 00:05:43,799 is actually a wolf in sheep's clothing. 108 00:05:43,799 --> 00:05:46,382 (somber music) 109 00:05:48,589 --> 00:05:49,980 Kerry: Hello. 110 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:51,085 Good to see you. 111 00:05:51,085 --> 00:05:53,200 -: Nice to see you, too. 112 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,851 -: I can't wait to hear the story of your life. 113 00:05:55,851 --> 00:05:57,329 -: Oh, thank you. 114 00:05:57,329 --> 00:05:58,799 -: What made you want to come in 115 00:05:58,799 --> 00:06:00,673 and share this experience with us? 116 00:06:00,673 --> 00:06:03,742 -: Well, I'm not here to defend myself, 117 00:06:03,742 --> 00:06:06,267 but every medal have a two sides. 118 00:06:06,267 --> 00:06:09,639 I said, I will be happy to come here 119 00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:13,421 as long as, if we have this opportunity 120 00:06:13,421 --> 00:06:17,499 to say exactly like everything was wrong or right, 121 00:06:17,499 --> 00:06:18,832 but like it was. 122 00:06:20,250 --> 00:06:23,156 -: What were you eventually convicted of? 123 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:25,989 -: Oh, for the illegal investments. 124 00:06:28,435 --> 00:06:30,018 That was the crime, 125 00:06:31,409 --> 00:06:33,992 which I admit that I did wrong. 126 00:06:36,487 --> 00:06:39,987 -: So, what did you promise your investors? 127 00:06:41,301 --> 00:06:45,630 What was it that made that so attractive to them? 128 00:06:45,630 --> 00:06:49,380 -: I was 3% more than on the Wall Street. 129 00:06:50,671 --> 00:06:54,826 And the Wall Street was 9%, I was giving 12%. 130 00:06:54,826 --> 00:06:58,414 -: How did this become what I understand 131 00:06:58,414 --> 00:07:00,863 was a Ponzi scheme? -: Yeah. 132 00:07:00,863 --> 00:07:03,989 -: Were are you using other people's money 133 00:07:03,989 --> 00:07:08,173 to pay off interest of the other investors, 134 00:07:08,173 --> 00:07:12,277 so that they believed that their investments were growing? 135 00:07:12,277 --> 00:07:16,333 -: The investment was growing, was growing. 136 00:07:16,333 --> 00:07:18,500 I didn't have luxury life. 137 00:07:20,380 --> 00:07:25,047 I did not pay from one end, building up like a snowball. 138 00:07:27,819 --> 00:07:31,736 I was building bigger and bigger security with, 139 00:07:33,167 --> 00:07:35,958 I always say, with my merchandise, 140 00:07:35,958 --> 00:07:38,092 amber, jewelry, gold, diamonds. 141 00:07:38,092 --> 00:07:39,210 -: You must have been making 142 00:07:39,210 --> 00:07:42,108 a good living in America at that point, 143 00:07:42,108 --> 00:07:43,960 because you were successful, 144 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,726 you were popular. 145 00:07:45,726 --> 00:07:46,559 -: Mm-hm. Announcer: Ladies 146 00:07:46,559 --> 00:07:49,388 and gentlemen, here he is, Mr. Jan Lewan. 147 00:07:49,388 --> 00:07:54,388 (upbeat music) (audience clapping) 148 00:08:00,889 --> 00:08:03,760 Woman: He was known worldwide as the Polka King. 149 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,255 Some even say Jan Lewan was to polka 150 00:08:06,255 --> 00:08:08,618 what Elvis Presley was to rock and roll. 151 00:08:08,618 --> 00:08:11,201 (upbeat music) 152 00:08:15,448 --> 00:08:18,667 -: I mean, to be nominated for a Grammy in 1995.. 153 00:08:18,667 --> 00:08:20,679 -: Yeah, that was beautiful. -: Yeah, I mean that's.. 154 00:08:20,679 --> 00:08:21,799 -: I met everybody. 155 00:08:21,799 --> 00:08:24,299 -: It's an amazing achievement. 156 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,595 -: They didn't really like polkas. 157 00:08:28,595 --> 00:08:31,700 Kerry: You didn't like it? 158 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,073 -: I was into classic music 159 00:08:34,073 --> 00:08:38,656 and to play polkas didn't work too good, you know 160 00:08:38,656 --> 00:08:42,000 but I turned this polka to the big band, 161 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,587 to more professional thing. 162 00:08:44,587 --> 00:08:45,987 -: Did you fall in love with it? 163 00:08:45,987 --> 00:08:47,446 -: Yes. 164 00:08:47,446 --> 00:08:49,509 So once when Trump hire me, 165 00:08:49,509 --> 00:08:52,236 I play polkas for 17 years, 166 00:08:52,236 --> 00:08:55,153 for all of his big, in his casinos. 167 00:08:57,965 --> 00:09:00,770 They didn't really like polkas. 168 00:09:00,770 --> 00:09:01,937 -: Mm-hm. 169 00:09:01,937 --> 00:09:03,896 So, what's his sense about polka? 170 00:09:03,896 --> 00:09:05,565 -: Yeah, doesn't like it (laughs). 171 00:09:05,565 --> 00:09:07,201 -: Why? -: He's the Polka King, 172 00:09:07,201 --> 00:09:10,020 but I'm sensing that he doesn't like it to start with. 173 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:11,073 -: Right, and then, you know, 174 00:09:11,073 --> 00:09:12,917 you had got some information from him 175 00:09:12,917 --> 00:09:14,305 that he was a classically-trained, 176 00:09:14,305 --> 00:09:17,472 and so this was maybe slumming to him, if you will. 177 00:09:17,472 --> 00:09:18,323 -: Yeah. 178 00:09:18,323 --> 00:09:20,196 -: Not a good use of his talents. 179 00:09:20,196 --> 00:09:21,771 And he's showing you this. 180 00:09:21,771 --> 00:09:23,226 We call that a "Referent gesture." 181 00:09:23,226 --> 00:09:25,122 So that's there for your consumption. 182 00:09:25,122 --> 00:09:27,489 He's making sure you know this, but it also, 183 00:09:27,489 --> 00:09:30,167 I think, captures what he really feels as well. 184 00:09:30,167 --> 00:09:31,657 -: So he's an expressive character. 185 00:09:31,657 --> 00:09:34,075 I mean, he has a larger than life character. 186 00:09:34,075 --> 00:09:36,041 -: And the thing is, on the first pass, 187 00:09:36,041 --> 00:09:37,265 you saw a lot of the smiles, 188 00:09:37,265 --> 00:09:39,206 so it was a lot of positivity, 189 00:09:39,206 --> 00:09:41,030 you know, little bits of the movement, 190 00:09:41,030 --> 00:09:42,210 it all looks sort of natural. 191 00:09:42,210 --> 00:09:45,231 It's all sort of persuasive, he's engaging. 192 00:09:45,231 --> 00:09:46,696 Those sorts of folks are often 193 00:09:46,696 --> 00:09:49,396 a little bit harder to read in general, right? 194 00:09:49,396 --> 00:09:50,517 Particularly with the smile, 195 00:09:50,517 --> 00:09:52,260 a smile can cover a lot of things. 196 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:53,285 -: Oh, yes. 197 00:09:53,285 --> 00:09:56,368 (soft pensive music) 198 00:09:58,204 --> 00:10:00,472 (taut music) 199 00:10:00,472 --> 00:10:05,077 (camera clicks) (taut music) 200 00:10:05,077 --> 00:10:07,812 So, how did your career develop? 201 00:10:07,812 --> 00:10:10,044 -: Well, when I was 16 years old, 202 00:10:10,044 --> 00:10:12,986 they were forming the music theaters, 203 00:10:12,986 --> 00:10:17,888 and they were looking for the voices to the choir. 204 00:10:17,888 --> 00:10:21,014 To this, I went for the audition, 205 00:10:21,014 --> 00:10:24,051 although you have to be 18 years old, 206 00:10:24,051 --> 00:10:28,468 but I changed my identification for 18 instead of 16. 207 00:10:30,862 --> 00:10:31,940 -: Oh, okay. 208 00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:35,713 -: They were short of tenors, and I get in. 209 00:10:35,713 --> 00:10:39,054 -: That little bit of deception actually created 210 00:10:39,054 --> 00:10:40,683 an opportunity for you, didn't it? 211 00:10:40,683 --> 00:10:42,365 -: Definitely, yes, yeah, yeah. 212 00:10:42,365 --> 00:10:44,894 -: Would you say that you were a little bit of a rebel 213 00:10:44,894 --> 00:10:48,363 and you were not, you know, you were not shy, were you, 214 00:10:48,363 --> 00:10:51,144 in faking your age on that form? 215 00:10:51,144 --> 00:10:54,727 -: No, I wanted to put any price to achieve. 216 00:10:55,788 --> 00:10:57,287 -: You say any price? 217 00:10:57,287 --> 00:10:58,120 -: Yes. 218 00:11:00,327 --> 00:11:03,599 (upbeat music) 219 00:11:03,599 --> 00:11:07,432 (singing in foreign language) 220 00:11:17,401 --> 00:11:20,327 Kerry: You had a good career in Poland. 221 00:11:20,327 --> 00:11:21,827 -: Yes, I did. 222 00:11:23,115 --> 00:11:27,374 The way to get in, it was sometimes very difficult. 223 00:11:27,374 --> 00:11:31,347 You have to sing the songs what they give it to you, 224 00:11:31,347 --> 00:11:35,051 and in many cases was the propaganda songs 225 00:11:35,051 --> 00:11:38,375 to support the communist party. 226 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:40,751 During the communist, they have this entertainment 227 00:11:40,751 --> 00:11:44,298 for the 1st of May, for October Revolution, 228 00:11:44,298 --> 00:11:46,526 for that in the factories. 229 00:11:46,526 --> 00:11:50,010 (singing in foreign language) 230 00:11:50,010 --> 00:11:50,940 Kerry: But it was the opposite 231 00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,326 of what you believed, wasn't it? 232 00:11:52,326 --> 00:11:53,744 Jan: That's correct, yes. 233 00:11:53,744 --> 00:11:55,639 -: How uncomfortable did you feel about it? 234 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:56,910 -: Uncomfortable. 235 00:11:56,910 --> 00:12:00,342 I sang once and took off and do my stuff, 236 00:12:00,342 --> 00:12:02,175 but you cannot say no. 237 00:12:05,422 --> 00:12:08,301 The communist, it's the bad thing 238 00:12:08,301 --> 00:12:11,616 to make a living, difficult to make a living. 239 00:12:11,616 --> 00:12:14,380 Nothing is practically available. 240 00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:17,307 In the meat stores, you can put the cards. 241 00:12:17,307 --> 00:12:19,141 There wasn't any meat. 242 00:12:19,141 --> 00:12:21,558 (taut music) 243 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:25,306 You don't trust too many people. 244 00:12:26,769 --> 00:12:29,159 Everybody was fighting for their own existence, 245 00:12:29,159 --> 00:12:31,659 so family was very much tight. 246 00:12:32,851 --> 00:12:33,796 -: What did you dream of? 247 00:12:33,796 --> 00:12:35,747 What was your dream at that time? 248 00:12:35,747 --> 00:12:40,200 -: We were always listening to Radio Free Europe. 249 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,057 My father always listened that. 250 00:12:43,057 --> 00:12:47,592 (radio host speaks in foreign language) 251 00:12:47,592 --> 00:12:48,681 Narrator: Never in history 252 00:12:48,681 --> 00:12:51,323 has the American family known such well-being. 253 00:12:51,323 --> 00:12:54,308 The standard of living beyond the wildest dreams 254 00:12:54,308 --> 00:12:57,652 of anyone who lived a half-century ago. 255 00:12:57,652 --> 00:13:01,456 -: And then we heard how it's beautiful on the West. 256 00:13:01,456 --> 00:13:04,389 Everybody driving Cadillac, 257 00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:06,322 their money hanging on the trees, 258 00:13:06,322 --> 00:13:08,991 but they say they're practically hanging on the trees 259 00:13:08,991 --> 00:13:10,199 that you just pick them up, 260 00:13:10,199 --> 00:13:11,775 how beautiful life is in the west. 261 00:13:11,775 --> 00:13:14,354 -: So was that something that you always aspired to? 262 00:13:14,354 --> 00:13:15,357 -: Exactly. -: To come to America. 263 00:13:15,357 --> 00:13:19,077 -: Yeah, that's what I leading to, yeah, yes. 264 00:13:19,077 --> 00:13:22,244 (pensive piano music) 265 00:13:23,455 --> 00:13:27,288 -: I wonder how much of his childhood in Poland 266 00:13:28,404 --> 00:13:32,654 really impacted upon his desire for American dream, 267 00:13:34,911 --> 00:13:37,685 the American dream success. 268 00:13:37,685 --> 00:13:41,234 And I wonder whether the success itself 269 00:13:41,234 --> 00:13:43,948 could ever live up to the fantasy 270 00:13:43,948 --> 00:13:46,176 that had been developed during that childhood, 271 00:13:46,176 --> 00:13:49,375 or maybe that's why he continued to go after it, 272 00:13:49,375 --> 00:13:52,031 even when actually he'd achieved, you know, 273 00:13:52,031 --> 00:13:54,988 more than most people would ever achieve. 274 00:13:54,988 --> 00:13:58,701 -: The image of America, if you're sitting in Europe 275 00:13:58,701 --> 00:14:02,032 and watching it is money grows on a tree, 276 00:14:02,032 --> 00:14:03,209 that's the image he had in mind. 277 00:14:03,209 --> 00:14:04,909 He came and he learned it's not the case, 278 00:14:04,909 --> 00:14:07,948 but you can still make it if you just work, 279 00:14:07,948 --> 00:14:10,763 a different magic, and he made his own narrative. 280 00:14:10,763 --> 00:14:15,037 -: And he has succeeded against the odds in the past. 281 00:14:15,037 --> 00:14:19,497 And I think that he's just learned from that 282 00:14:19,497 --> 00:14:22,414 that he can succeed no matter what. 283 00:14:24,227 --> 00:14:27,310 (mellow piano music) 284 00:14:31,033 --> 00:14:35,885 -: I heard that one of the big singing group, "Mazowsze" 285 00:14:35,885 --> 00:14:39,335 I called, went to New York for the tour, 286 00:14:39,335 --> 00:14:42,644 and half of the group came back. 287 00:14:42,644 --> 00:14:46,257 And now they have asked for political asylum, 288 00:14:46,257 --> 00:14:48,168 and they stay. 289 00:14:48,168 --> 00:14:52,001 Well, maybe one day I will go with the theater 290 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,481 or something, you know? 291 00:14:55,481 --> 00:14:56,601 And actually what's happened 292 00:14:56,601 --> 00:14:59,367 because in theater that I was working, 293 00:14:59,367 --> 00:15:02,798 there was an impresario from New York. 294 00:15:02,798 --> 00:15:06,545 He came to me and he said, well, Jan, 295 00:15:06,545 --> 00:15:10,388 two years from now, I will get you with the group as well. 296 00:15:10,388 --> 00:15:11,652 I said, I didn't believe it. 297 00:15:11,652 --> 00:15:14,115 But I said, that's beautiful, you know? 298 00:15:14,115 --> 00:15:17,332 But yeah, two years later I was with the theater, 299 00:15:17,332 --> 00:15:20,415 the group to the North America, yeah. 300 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,994 Next day, I took the train 301 00:15:26,994 --> 00:15:29,887 and I went and celebrate with my parents. 302 00:15:29,887 --> 00:15:32,805 I going to America, but I didn't tell them I going 303 00:15:32,805 --> 00:15:34,472 and I won't be back. 304 00:15:35,665 --> 00:15:39,594 ♪ With tears in my eyes I left my Polish home ♪ 305 00:15:39,594 --> 00:15:43,755 ♪ Two suitcases packed with everything I own ♪ 306 00:15:43,755 --> 00:15:47,761 ♪ America, the money trees this was my only goal. ♪ 307 00:15:47,761 --> 00:15:50,762 -: So off you went to America and what happened there? 308 00:15:50,762 --> 00:15:53,207 Was there money growing on trees? 309 00:15:53,207 --> 00:15:57,302 -: No, that was a little disappointment, yeah. 310 00:15:57,302 --> 00:16:00,737 When the group went back and I stay, then you realize, 311 00:16:00,737 --> 00:16:04,987 well, it's not like I expect, maybe I make mistake. 312 00:16:07,252 --> 00:16:10,715 But I leave that just for myself. 313 00:16:10,715 --> 00:16:14,712 I was showing my family I did the right thing. 314 00:16:14,712 --> 00:16:19,545 So I was working in the gas station and all kinds of jobs. 315 00:16:26,794 --> 00:16:28,954 -: The time that Jan spent 316 00:16:28,954 --> 00:16:32,543 under communist rule in Poland is significant. 317 00:16:32,543 --> 00:16:37,543 I think that must have made the fantasy of going to America 318 00:16:37,592 --> 00:16:40,675 and succeeding all the more enticing, 319 00:16:42,648 --> 00:16:45,014 all the more thrilling. 320 00:16:45,014 --> 00:16:48,347 And so, yeah, I think that's a real part 321 00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:52,667 of what motivates him and has driven him. 322 00:16:54,152 --> 00:16:58,718 But I think maybe he accepted the American culture 323 00:16:58,718 --> 00:17:02,718 a little bit too well, because he became greedy. 324 00:17:05,081 --> 00:17:06,975 ♪ Body heart mind and soul ♪ 325 00:17:06,975 --> 00:17:10,838 ♪ I dreamed that everyone in Vegas by now with know my name ♪ 326 00:17:10,838 --> 00:17:14,909 ♪ In Chicago and Cleveland, I will have great pain ♪ 327 00:17:14,909 --> 00:17:18,285 ♪ Evely Humble you will see my smiling face ♪ 328 00:17:18,285 --> 00:17:21,884 ♪ From Central Park Soho even in ♪ 329 00:17:21,884 --> 00:17:25,051 (pensive piano music) 330 00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:41,817 -: In Jan Lewan, I look for a lot of things 331 00:17:41,817 --> 00:17:43,776 that have to do with emotions, 332 00:17:43,776 --> 00:17:44,850 and a lot of things have to do 333 00:17:44,850 --> 00:17:46,254 with interacting with other people. 334 00:17:46,254 --> 00:17:47,087 How are you feeling, okay? 335 00:17:47,087 --> 00:17:48,065 -: Yeah, fine. 336 00:17:48,065 --> 00:17:51,413 -: I think that there's something in the brain 337 00:17:51,413 --> 00:17:53,483 that drives our behavior. 338 00:17:53,483 --> 00:17:56,214 So if you take a person who was a con artist, 339 00:17:56,214 --> 00:17:58,943 and we look at their brain, we have a chance 340 00:17:58,943 --> 00:18:02,613 of finding a difference between them and the average person. 341 00:18:02,613 --> 00:18:04,387 And if there is this difference 342 00:18:04,387 --> 00:18:06,422 that we can point out to, 343 00:18:06,422 --> 00:18:09,415 then maybe we can understand ourself and change it, fix it, 344 00:18:09,415 --> 00:18:12,493 or at least learn how to avoid it if we have it. 345 00:18:12,493 --> 00:18:15,830 In this one, you see pair of eyes 346 00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:18,492 and those eyes carry some emotion in them. 347 00:18:18,492 --> 00:18:20,925 Take the cursor to the word that you think it reflect 348 00:18:20,925 --> 00:18:23,056 and then press it. 349 00:18:23,056 --> 00:18:24,806 -: Ha ha ha, annoying. 350 00:18:25,853 --> 00:18:26,686 Oh, upset. 351 00:18:28,225 --> 00:18:31,392 (pensive piano music) 352 00:18:46,690 --> 00:18:48,886 -: Here are the things that I looked at with him. 353 00:18:48,886 --> 00:18:51,302 First of all, what he is very good in empathy. 354 00:18:51,302 --> 00:18:54,988 So I had him look at emotions and kind of read them 355 00:18:54,988 --> 00:18:56,251 and try to figure them out. 356 00:18:56,251 --> 00:18:57,820 He was nearly perfect. 357 00:18:57,820 --> 00:18:59,337 And when he made mistakes, 358 00:18:59,337 --> 00:19:01,019 it was usually a mistake of English. 359 00:19:01,019 --> 00:19:01,859 He just didn't know the word. 360 00:19:01,859 --> 00:19:03,070 Like, what is the word? 361 00:19:03,070 --> 00:19:04,902 I, mean, you know disrespectful. 362 00:19:04,902 --> 00:19:07,616 You kind of, so I think he was good in reading emotions. 363 00:19:07,616 --> 00:19:10,893 And the last thing I learned about him that was irrelevant 364 00:19:10,893 --> 00:19:14,529 is that he doesn't really take chances. 365 00:19:14,529 --> 00:19:17,607 In each round, you can press this button. 366 00:19:17,607 --> 00:19:19,244 It says, pump up the balloon. 367 00:19:19,244 --> 00:19:20,271 -: Okay. -: And then it's gonna get 368 00:19:20,271 --> 00:19:21,529 bigger and bigger and bigger. 369 00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:24,202 The bigger the balloon, the more money you make. 370 00:19:24,202 --> 00:19:25,035 -: I like that. 371 00:19:25,035 --> 00:19:28,979 -: Okay, but if you get it too big, it's going to explode. 372 00:19:28,979 --> 00:19:31,642 And if it explode, you get nothing. 373 00:19:31,642 --> 00:19:32,648 All right, let's start one. 374 00:19:32,648 --> 00:19:33,981 So inflating it. 375 00:19:37,937 --> 00:19:40,020 -: Oh, I got it now, yeah. 376 00:19:42,075 --> 00:19:43,890 -: So this time you get nothing because it exploded. 377 00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:44,723 -: That's fine. 378 00:19:44,723 --> 00:19:45,556 -: Perfect. 379 00:20:03,316 --> 00:20:05,983 Perfect, what was your strategy? 380 00:20:07,501 --> 00:20:08,978 What did you. 381 00:20:08,978 --> 00:20:11,495 -: Well, I learned on the first one who blow up. 382 00:20:11,495 --> 00:20:12,890 -: Yes. 383 00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:15,625 -: And that's why I don't go too far, 384 00:20:15,625 --> 00:20:18,187 but I try to what I will do. 385 00:20:18,187 --> 00:20:23,187 If I will blow the balloon, how much I can double the size. 386 00:20:23,256 --> 00:20:26,339 It was telling me, Hey, don't overdo. 387 00:20:28,797 --> 00:20:31,931 -: So you kind of took one trial to learn. 388 00:20:31,931 --> 00:20:33,176 And from then on, you never changed. 389 00:20:33,176 --> 00:20:34,387 -: You got that. 390 00:20:34,387 --> 00:20:35,718 -: All right. 391 00:20:35,718 --> 00:20:37,314 -: He took a chance in the beginning. 392 00:20:37,314 --> 00:20:39,135 Once he got burnt, this became the limit. 393 00:20:39,135 --> 00:20:41,956 And from then on, he stayed within the limits of that. 394 00:20:41,956 --> 00:20:43,543 So he never took a chance a second time, 395 00:20:43,543 --> 00:20:46,114 compared to other con artists constantly pushed. 396 00:20:46,114 --> 00:20:49,468 Wherever the boundary is, he stayed always just below that, 397 00:20:49,468 --> 00:20:53,367 but he never tried once again to push it. 398 00:20:53,367 --> 00:20:57,920 -: He got burnt when he was prosecuted for his scheme 399 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,262 and went to prison. 400 00:20:59,262 --> 00:21:03,358 So that's actually a good sign isn't it for the future? 401 00:21:03,358 --> 00:21:04,191 -: Yeah, it's activism. 402 00:21:04,191 --> 00:21:06,833 Like we think that at least he learned, 403 00:21:06,833 --> 00:21:08,640 and now at least on this crime, 404 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,177 in this stage and he wouldn't do it again. 405 00:21:10,177 --> 00:21:11,010 -: Yeah. 406 00:21:11,010 --> 00:21:13,110 -: But if he is really a sophisticated con artist, 407 00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:15,725 there's just gonna be a different way to, you know, 408 00:21:15,725 --> 00:21:16,983 invent a new way to make money. 409 00:21:16,983 --> 00:21:20,813 It's gonna be now the tango dancer or the. 410 00:21:20,813 --> 00:21:23,396 (upbeat music) 411 00:21:27,483 --> 00:21:29,090 (group chanting) 412 00:21:29,090 --> 00:21:33,173 (speaking in a foreign language) 413 00:21:35,067 --> 00:21:39,507 -: Why did you want to start running tours to Poland? 414 00:21:39,507 --> 00:21:44,507 -: That was the one of the opportunity for the good income. 415 00:21:44,785 --> 00:21:47,785 If you have 200 people and you know, 416 00:21:48,871 --> 00:21:52,954 that time I was getting 30, $40,000 for my profit 417 00:21:54,627 --> 00:21:56,488 to be the leader of the group. 418 00:21:56,488 --> 00:21:59,739 -: I suppose that also led to you picking, 419 00:21:59,739 --> 00:22:02,575 got more fans for your music. 420 00:22:02,575 --> 00:22:06,352 -: Not only, I don't know if we're leading to that or not, 421 00:22:06,352 --> 00:22:10,758 but you probably have questions coming that way, 422 00:22:10,758 --> 00:22:15,758 that groups taking them to Poland during the communist time 423 00:22:16,337 --> 00:22:18,957 in Poland, everything was cheap. 424 00:22:18,957 --> 00:22:23,957 You buy for 10 cents, you sell in America for $20, okay? 425 00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,234 So I went with this group for shopping for this, 426 00:22:27,234 --> 00:22:29,378 and everybody was coming to me saying, 427 00:22:29,378 --> 00:22:32,045 "Jan, why don't you open store?" 428 00:22:34,511 --> 00:22:38,928 "We're gonna invest the money to you buy the Poland." 429 00:22:40,194 --> 00:22:44,630 So I've came back and I said, that's a pretty good idea. 430 00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:48,380 -: Two, three (clapping hands) 431 00:22:53,481 --> 00:22:56,648 (audience applauding) 432 00:23:02,256 --> 00:23:04,950 -: You're telling me that people said to you 433 00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:08,541 open up a store full of Polish souvenirs, 434 00:23:08,541 --> 00:23:10,669 that you can buy very cheaply in Poland. 435 00:23:10,669 --> 00:23:11,820 Both: Yeah. 436 00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:12,653 -: But that.. 437 00:23:12,653 --> 00:23:14,137 -: But we want to give you the money to do it. 438 00:23:14,137 --> 00:23:17,671 -: Yes, but that time I need that 10 cents. 439 00:23:17,671 --> 00:23:20,421 You know, for speaking generally. 440 00:23:22,243 --> 00:23:23,993 So when we come back, 441 00:23:24,885 --> 00:23:29,468 we create this promissory note and these people was flying. 442 00:23:29,468 --> 00:23:32,502 I didn't ask nobody, they asked me. 443 00:23:32,502 --> 00:23:35,402 -: People came to you and suggested 444 00:23:35,402 --> 00:23:38,212 that they invest in your souvenir business. 445 00:23:38,212 --> 00:23:39,045 -: Mm-mh. 446 00:23:39,045 --> 00:23:42,304 -: Why did you need other people's money? 447 00:23:42,304 --> 00:23:44,450 Surely you had money of your own 448 00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:45,986 that you could have invested. 449 00:23:45,986 --> 00:23:48,130 -: Not enough to invest it. 450 00:23:48,130 --> 00:23:49,963 When I came to Kraków, and buy the factory of Visbianski, 451 00:23:52,982 --> 00:23:57,829 there was hundreds, 20,000 little dolls available. 452 00:23:57,829 --> 00:23:59,086 And I bought them all, 453 00:23:59,086 --> 00:24:01,892 but I didn't have money to buy them all. 454 00:24:01,892 --> 00:24:06,892 So when they invest the money, I was able in that time, 455 00:24:07,073 --> 00:24:10,553 even like Vanessa was telling me Yanik, 456 00:24:10,553 --> 00:24:12,707 by now, that's gonna change. 457 00:24:12,707 --> 00:24:17,707 But I needed huge amount of money to make that happen. 458 00:24:17,791 --> 00:24:21,403 So I didn't want to just put my effort for them. 459 00:24:21,403 --> 00:24:25,279 I was bringing containers of the merchandise. 460 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,862 (upbeat music) 461 00:24:29,583 --> 00:24:31,257 Hi, my name is Jan Lewan, 462 00:24:31,257 --> 00:24:34,212 and I would like to invite you to our gift shop. 463 00:24:34,212 --> 00:24:35,490 Announcer: Authentic handcrafted costumes 464 00:24:35,490 --> 00:24:37,373 and dolls directly from Poland. 465 00:24:37,373 --> 00:24:41,410 Hand woven rugs, religious items for check the hold on. 466 00:24:41,410 --> 00:24:44,160 (suspense music) 467 00:24:50,901 --> 00:24:55,151 -: So explain to me how this souvenir scheme worked. 468 00:24:57,046 --> 00:25:00,879 People said, I want to invest money into this, 469 00:25:01,756 --> 00:25:03,759 your souvenir shop. 470 00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:06,611 And then what would you give them in return? 471 00:25:06,611 --> 00:25:10,663 -: I prepare with my accountant promissory note, 472 00:25:10,663 --> 00:25:13,330 which I promise 12% return. 473 00:25:14,296 --> 00:25:18,296 And the promissory note was perfectly structured 474 00:25:19,856 --> 00:25:23,773 to commit myself to be faithful to my promises. 475 00:25:26,712 --> 00:25:30,462 And they were receiving every month interest. 476 00:25:39,783 --> 00:25:42,366 My attorney with my accountant, 477 00:25:43,746 --> 00:25:47,613 who review that promissory note with my accountant 478 00:25:47,613 --> 00:25:52,613 may she, he forgot to tell me I have to register that 479 00:25:52,795 --> 00:25:54,893 in the government. 480 00:25:54,893 --> 00:25:57,127 He said, everything is looks good. 481 00:25:57,127 --> 00:26:00,633 Only you offer such a big percentage. 482 00:26:00,633 --> 00:26:02,598 I said, well, that's fine. 483 00:26:02,598 --> 00:26:04,516 I wanted people to be happy. 484 00:26:04,516 --> 00:26:08,814 I want, they want me to do that, I do for them. 485 00:26:08,814 --> 00:26:12,814 I gonna come up with that 10 cents sell for $20. 486 00:26:14,556 --> 00:26:16,282 I'd be fine. 487 00:26:16,282 --> 00:26:19,271 -: So had you done all of your maths beforehand 488 00:26:19,271 --> 00:26:23,159 so you were very confident that you could deliver 12% 489 00:26:23,159 --> 00:26:24,818 back to your investors? -: Yes, the store 490 00:26:24,818 --> 00:26:27,151 was doing very good actually. 491 00:26:27,151 --> 00:26:31,491 That time I was buying amber for 50 cents a gram 492 00:26:31,491 --> 00:26:32,658 today it's $6. 493 00:26:33,829 --> 00:26:37,707 So I was doing right think that time. 494 00:26:37,707 --> 00:26:40,178 -: So you were buying and buying with 495 00:26:40,178 --> 00:26:43,581 all this money? -: And buying, in every floor 496 00:26:43,581 --> 00:26:48,164 in everywhere in my store was the cases of merchandise. 497 00:26:49,550 --> 00:26:51,253 -: And you absolutely believed that you 498 00:26:51,253 --> 00:26:54,420 had a market for all of this merchant? 499 00:26:55,326 --> 00:26:56,681 -: When you watch that tape, 500 00:26:56,681 --> 00:26:57,984 did you have a feeling for a moment 501 00:26:57,984 --> 00:27:00,067 that it's somehow paused? 502 00:27:01,347 --> 00:27:03,257 He finishes up his comment 503 00:27:03,257 --> 00:27:06,339 and he just sorta ends it and then.. 504 00:27:06,339 --> 00:27:08,922 -: Was the cases of merchandise. 505 00:27:10,304 --> 00:27:11,616 -: And you absolutely believed.. 506 00:27:11,616 --> 00:27:14,184 -: This, and I thought when I was watching this, 507 00:27:14,184 --> 00:27:16,519 that I accidentally hit a pause button 508 00:27:16,519 --> 00:27:20,013 because he's always moving while he was talking. 509 00:27:20,013 --> 00:27:24,612 And then there was this freeze and he's no blinks, 510 00:27:24,612 --> 00:27:26,714 no movements staring at you. 511 00:27:26,714 --> 00:27:28,659 So whatever he said, 512 00:27:28,659 --> 00:27:31,665 he's very carefully monitoring your reaction to it. 513 00:27:31,665 --> 00:27:32,762 Is what that basically means. 514 00:27:32,762 --> 00:27:35,518 -: So is that a convincing behavior? 515 00:27:35,518 --> 00:27:39,988 Then he wants to see that he has convinced me 516 00:27:39,988 --> 00:27:42,405 and he wants to maintain eye contact with me 517 00:27:42,405 --> 00:27:43,894 -: Yeah, that's it. -: Because there's 518 00:27:43,894 --> 00:27:44,965 that belief, isn't that? 519 00:27:44,965 --> 00:27:46,188 That if somebody is looking you in the eye, 520 00:27:46,188 --> 00:27:49,690 then they can't possibly be fooling you in any way. 521 00:27:49,690 --> 00:27:52,061 -: Right, that's the perfect term for that. 522 00:27:52,061 --> 00:27:56,064 I think the convincer, am I convincing? 523 00:27:56,064 --> 00:27:57,857 Now watch it again, so he.. 524 00:27:57,857 --> 00:27:59,820 -: Merchandise. 525 00:27:59,820 --> 00:28:01,394 -: And you absolutely believed that 526 00:28:01,394 --> 00:28:03,787 you had a market for all of this merchandise? 527 00:28:03,787 --> 00:28:05,008 -: Yeah, and then he stopped. 528 00:28:05,008 --> 00:28:07,063 He didn't say, and therefore I was hoping to sell it. 529 00:28:07,063 --> 00:28:11,074 So sort of, I want the story to end here. 530 00:28:11,074 --> 00:28:14,109 Please don't ask me anymore, Kerry Daynes. 531 00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:15,648 -: Let me understand exactly what you.. 532 00:28:15,648 --> 00:28:16,534 Jan: Sure. -: Yeah. 533 00:28:16,534 --> 00:28:20,366 What exactly did you do that was illegal? 534 00:28:20,366 --> 00:28:23,631 Was it unregistered promissory note? 535 00:28:23,631 --> 00:28:24,843 -: That's the one. 536 00:28:24,843 --> 00:28:25,676 Kerry: Yes. 537 00:28:25,676 --> 00:28:29,694 -: Another one that should never offer 20% 538 00:28:29,694 --> 00:28:34,535 and tell them that everything is fine, that was wrong. 539 00:28:34,535 --> 00:28:38,035 Then I was told to stop and I didn't stop. 540 00:28:39,246 --> 00:28:42,163 That was another wrong thing to do. 541 00:28:44,462 --> 00:28:48,750 -: He was told these promissory notes are illegal. 542 00:28:48,750 --> 00:28:52,718 So stop it, stop your business, pay back your investors. 543 00:28:52,718 --> 00:28:57,538 And like he made a conscious decision to continue. 544 00:28:57,538 --> 00:29:01,579 The way that he's telling his story, it's very passive. 545 00:29:01,579 --> 00:29:05,361 Well, investors came to me, they flocked to me. 546 00:29:05,361 --> 00:29:06,909 And I didn't realize that 547 00:29:06,909 --> 00:29:10,261 my promissory notes weren't registered. 548 00:29:10,261 --> 00:29:13,623 But I feel that there's more to this story 549 00:29:13,623 --> 00:29:18,373 than we were being told, because this was a Ponzi scheme. 550 00:29:20,430 --> 00:29:24,597 So if it was a Ponzi scheme, he has by definition, 551 00:29:27,461 --> 00:29:29,870 taken money from somebody 552 00:29:29,870 --> 00:29:33,522 and not invested it into his souvenir company, 553 00:29:33,522 --> 00:29:35,939 but paid back other investors 554 00:29:37,439 --> 00:29:41,892 in order to keep their trust, keep their confidence 555 00:29:41,892 --> 00:29:45,702 and therefore encourage more people to join the scheme. 556 00:29:45,702 --> 00:29:48,227 So that's con artistry, isn't it? 557 00:29:48,227 --> 00:29:49,956 -: 'Cause it's intentional, right? 558 00:29:49,956 --> 00:29:52,931 Because what you said in the beginning was 559 00:29:52,931 --> 00:29:55,726 it's portrayed as sort of a crime of negligence, 560 00:29:55,726 --> 00:29:56,718 if you will. Kerry: Yes. 561 00:29:56,718 --> 00:29:58,676 -: I just forgot, I should have, 562 00:29:58,676 --> 00:30:00,223 but what you're pointing out now. 563 00:30:00,223 --> 00:30:01,206 This is clear intentionality. 564 00:30:01,206 --> 00:30:02,937 And there's a difference between the two. 565 00:30:02,937 --> 00:30:03,770 Kerry: Yeah. 566 00:30:03,770 --> 00:30:07,073 -: We need to get him out of the performance zone 567 00:30:07,073 --> 00:30:09,547 and get the truth out of him. 568 00:30:09,547 --> 00:30:11,413 -: Does he ever come out the performance though? 569 00:30:11,413 --> 00:30:12,246 And I don't know. 570 00:30:12,246 --> 00:30:13,936 -: He has prepared statements for everything, 571 00:30:13,936 --> 00:30:17,934 but I think that either, if we tire him talk, talk, talk, 572 00:30:17,934 --> 00:30:20,129 talk until he's not able to. 573 00:30:20,129 --> 00:30:23,664 Or if there are some issues that he's less comfortable 574 00:30:23,664 --> 00:30:25,905 talking about to show emotions 575 00:30:25,905 --> 00:30:28,799 that he doesn't show otherwise, I bet they exist. 576 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:32,049 (mellow strings music) 577 00:30:36,326 --> 00:30:38,724 -: This is the today. 578 00:30:38,724 --> 00:30:42,141 The funny thing is they learn everything, 579 00:30:43,436 --> 00:30:46,455 what they want to learn from my side. 580 00:30:46,455 --> 00:30:48,788 Now, they put their mind how 581 00:30:51,444 --> 00:30:54,903 they can put the words in my mouth. 582 00:30:54,903 --> 00:30:58,004 They thinks what they need to hear, 583 00:30:58,004 --> 00:31:00,671 to make this spicy, all of this. 584 00:31:01,845 --> 00:31:04,164 But I not gonna allow it to them 585 00:31:04,164 --> 00:31:07,644 because I already said like it was, 586 00:31:07,644 --> 00:31:09,964 and I gonna stick to that. 587 00:31:09,964 --> 00:31:12,184 So it's very interesting. 588 00:31:12,184 --> 00:31:15,155 I enjoy this challenge right now. 589 00:31:15,155 --> 00:31:17,484 No, they tried to me up. 590 00:31:17,484 --> 00:31:19,045 There's not, gonna be happened. 591 00:31:19,045 --> 00:31:21,628 (Jan laughing) 592 00:31:27,524 --> 00:31:28,357 Jan: Hello. 593 00:31:28,357 --> 00:31:30,114 -: Hello, Jan, have a seat. 594 00:31:30,114 --> 00:31:33,352 -: Thank you, nice to see you again. 595 00:31:33,352 --> 00:31:34,192 -: I hope so. 596 00:31:34,192 --> 00:31:36,830 Do you know I really wanted to chat to you again, 597 00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:38,541 because there are just some things 598 00:31:38,541 --> 00:31:40,180 that I don't fully understand 599 00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:44,150 from the first interview that I wanted to clarify. 600 00:31:44,150 --> 00:31:47,311 Why is this being described as a Ponzi scheme? 601 00:31:47,311 --> 00:31:50,311 -: Well, that's the easiest way to describe. 602 00:31:50,311 --> 00:31:53,061 And in our system of prosecution, 603 00:31:54,081 --> 00:31:58,248 it's sometimes people expresses lots to be desire. 604 00:32:00,945 --> 00:32:03,784 They have no time for explanations 605 00:32:03,784 --> 00:32:07,070 and I don't want it explain, I, it was. 606 00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:09,035 -: I don't understand the explanation though. 607 00:32:09,035 --> 00:32:10,924 So there must have been a point then 608 00:32:10,924 --> 00:32:13,274 when your business stopped making money. 609 00:32:13,274 --> 00:32:16,857 -: Yes, I didn't realize that the things in, 610 00:32:18,104 --> 00:32:22,204 the changes in the world gonna change everything, 611 00:32:22,204 --> 00:32:25,871 till the point that, people after they come, 612 00:32:29,094 --> 00:32:30,634 when is the break down, 613 00:32:30,634 --> 00:32:33,394 people can go to Poland on their own. 614 00:32:33,394 --> 00:32:37,274 They don't need at my store to buy that doll for $20. 615 00:32:37,274 --> 00:32:42,164 They satisfied them with the souvenirs when they go there 616 00:32:42,164 --> 00:32:46,254 and they were going to Poland in a mass of, 617 00:32:46,254 --> 00:32:49,174 on their own and satisfied them with the things, 618 00:32:49,174 --> 00:32:54,124 what I offered them for much more money in my store. 619 00:32:54,124 --> 00:32:56,924 -: What was it do you think that stopped you 620 00:32:56,924 --> 00:33:00,484 being honest with these investments? 621 00:33:00,484 --> 00:33:02,151 -: I was buying time. 622 00:33:03,583 --> 00:33:07,314 I was, I believe I gonna make it and I was buying time 623 00:33:07,314 --> 00:33:11,464 to come to the better by the time, you know, 624 00:33:11,464 --> 00:33:12,624 when the problem begin, 625 00:33:12,624 --> 00:33:16,893 I still have that millions of dollars in merchandise, 626 00:33:16,893 --> 00:33:20,226 which I cannot sell because we have 911, 627 00:33:21,453 --> 00:33:23,453 when the market went down 628 00:33:23,453 --> 00:33:26,693 and one after other after the other, 629 00:33:26,693 --> 00:33:29,653 and then I was doing wrong. 630 00:33:29,653 --> 00:33:32,764 -: But the 20% that you admit was absolutely. 631 00:33:32,764 --> 00:33:34,990 You knew that that was fraudulent. 632 00:33:34,990 --> 00:33:35,890 -: That's correct, yeah. 633 00:33:35,890 --> 00:33:37,493 -: Yeah, what year did you start 634 00:33:37,493 --> 00:33:39,093 writing those promissory notes? 635 00:33:39,093 --> 00:33:42,010 -: On 2001, when the problems begin. 636 00:33:43,353 --> 00:33:46,436 I, that's what I start offering more. 637 00:33:55,213 --> 00:33:57,796 (upbeat music) 638 00:34:04,371 --> 00:34:08,041 -: Started to use, then investors money to pay. 639 00:34:08,041 --> 00:34:12,601 -: And I changed for 20% in that time to keep going, 640 00:34:12,601 --> 00:34:16,331 because I still believe if I will pass by that time, 641 00:34:16,331 --> 00:34:20,660 everything, what is laying down in my storage, 642 00:34:20,660 --> 00:34:24,940 it much more than I needed to pay off everybody at the time. 643 00:34:24,940 --> 00:34:25,790 -: I see what you're saying. 644 00:34:25,790 --> 00:34:28,551 So you turned to that in order to, 645 00:34:28,551 --> 00:34:30,750 as you felt buy yourself sometime? 646 00:34:30,750 --> 00:34:31,583 -: Mm-hm 647 00:34:31,583 --> 00:34:33,330 -: But nevertheless, that's.. 648 00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:35,070 -: That was my crime. -: That's a Ponzi scheme. 649 00:34:35,070 --> 00:34:37,549 Yeah, that's is. -: That's why I went to prison. 650 00:34:37,549 --> 00:34:39,989 -: That is a Ponzi scheme. 651 00:34:39,989 --> 00:34:42,656 Did you have a typical investor. 652 00:34:43,979 --> 00:34:46,812 -: Investors was more mostly in my, 653 00:34:49,099 --> 00:34:52,240 my traveling people was mostly older people. 654 00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:53,073 Kerry: Older people? 655 00:34:53,073 --> 00:34:57,219 -: Yeah, and that they become the investors. 656 00:34:57,219 --> 00:35:01,529 -: You offered people 20% return on their investment. 657 00:35:01,529 --> 00:35:03,399 -: Knowing that I was doing illegal. 658 00:35:03,399 --> 00:35:04,607 Both: Yeah. 659 00:35:04,607 --> 00:35:07,729 -: So you knowingly offered people 20% return 660 00:35:07,729 --> 00:35:12,579 on their investment during what was a financial crisis. 661 00:35:12,579 --> 00:35:13,412 -: Mm-hm. 662 00:35:13,412 --> 00:35:16,379 -: Why do you think that they didn't feel 663 00:35:16,379 --> 00:35:18,462 that this was very fishy? 664 00:35:19,474 --> 00:35:23,649 -: Because through this 20 years, they trust me, 665 00:35:23,649 --> 00:35:26,982 and I believe that I will still make it. 666 00:35:27,859 --> 00:35:32,599 -: Why do you think that they had so much trust in you? 667 00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:35,779 -: Well, all of those things where I was doing 668 00:35:35,779 --> 00:35:40,446 lead them to trust me, I gave them service all the time. 669 00:35:42,318 --> 00:35:46,329 They got everything what make them comfortable 670 00:35:46,329 --> 00:35:49,538 when they go with me someplace or do. 671 00:35:49,538 --> 00:35:52,228 So that builds the trust. 672 00:35:52,228 --> 00:35:54,131 -: With these repeat customers as well. 673 00:35:54,131 --> 00:35:57,191 So people that maybe you've seen numerous times 674 00:35:57,191 --> 00:35:58,051 over the years. 675 00:35:58,051 --> 00:35:59,091 -: Good thing you just said, 676 00:35:59,091 --> 00:36:03,679 I have a people who were with me over 10 times overseas. 677 00:36:03,679 --> 00:36:06,180 When I was doing the concert, 678 00:36:06,180 --> 00:36:08,761 that one person who was involved 679 00:36:08,761 --> 00:36:10,701 with the promissory note with me, 680 00:36:10,701 --> 00:36:12,341 he brought 10 other people 681 00:36:12,341 --> 00:36:15,255 because they know it's his business. 682 00:36:15,255 --> 00:36:18,422 (soft suspense music) 683 00:36:27,872 --> 00:36:30,147 -: When I looked at the case of Jan Lewan, 684 00:36:30,147 --> 00:36:32,473 I saw that this was affinity fraud. 685 00:36:32,473 --> 00:36:36,066 That's when the person who is perpetrating the fraud 686 00:36:36,066 --> 00:36:39,283 will go to members of his own community 687 00:36:39,283 --> 00:36:41,524 or pretend to be part of a community. 688 00:36:41,524 --> 00:36:43,479 And the purpose is that 689 00:36:43,479 --> 00:36:45,611 the investment will just be discussed 690 00:36:45,611 --> 00:36:48,039 within this particular group. 691 00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:50,538 And hopefully because of the trust, 692 00:36:50,538 --> 00:36:53,822 there will not be any questions as to whether 693 00:36:53,822 --> 00:36:55,629 the person can really deliver 694 00:36:55,629 --> 00:36:58,546 on what it is he or she is selling. 695 00:36:59,470 --> 00:37:02,637 (soft suspense music) 696 00:37:05,669 --> 00:37:07,769 He knew all these famous people 697 00:37:07,769 --> 00:37:09,989 who would identify with Jan Lewan. 698 00:37:09,989 --> 00:37:13,798 He knew Lech Wałęsa and he knew the Pope. 699 00:37:13,798 --> 00:37:18,148 So who better to trust if you are going to invest your money 700 00:37:18,148 --> 00:37:21,481 than a man who is friends with the Pope. 701 00:37:22,498 --> 00:37:27,498 (crowd applauding) (cameras clicking) 702 00:37:39,557 --> 00:37:43,877 -: How do you feel about these people who, as you say, 703 00:37:43,877 --> 00:37:47,228 built up a trust in you over 20 years, 704 00:37:47,228 --> 00:37:48,747 but then lost their money? 705 00:37:48,747 --> 00:37:51,747 -: Yeah, I'm sad, I'm sorry for them. 706 00:37:54,028 --> 00:37:58,278 Added to that is after prison, I organized the tour 707 00:37:59,217 --> 00:38:04,217 and most of the people who lose the money, travel with me. 708 00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:07,417 -: And what did you glean from that? 709 00:38:07,417 --> 00:38:08,456 What did you believe about? 710 00:38:08,456 --> 00:38:11,289 -: I just try to give you a picture 711 00:38:12,307 --> 00:38:16,643 that some of the people knew what I went through 712 00:38:16,643 --> 00:38:19,816 with all of these things that even though 713 00:38:19,816 --> 00:38:24,066 I shouldn't say cheat, even though I did the wrong, 714 00:38:26,927 --> 00:38:31,760 they're my friends now, lots of them, they travel with me. 715 00:38:33,546 --> 00:38:34,946 -: They have forgiven you? 716 00:38:34,946 --> 00:38:37,246 -: I guess we can say, forgive me. 717 00:38:37,246 --> 00:38:39,116 They don't talk about that. 718 00:38:39,116 --> 00:38:43,116 (singing in a foreign language) 719 00:38:57,467 --> 00:39:02,348 -: How he speaks about his victims and calls them as friends. 720 00:39:02,348 --> 00:39:05,257 What do you think is his view of his victims? 721 00:39:05,257 --> 00:39:08,517 Do you think he realized that they actually are victims? 722 00:39:08,517 --> 00:39:11,746 -: I don't think he wants to realize 723 00:39:11,746 --> 00:39:13,456 what he's done to people. 724 00:39:13,456 --> 00:39:15,837 A lot of his victims are dead, 725 00:39:15,837 --> 00:39:18,236 so he doesn't really have to think about them. 726 00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:20,437 And of course, they didn't live out 727 00:39:20,437 --> 00:39:23,937 the retirement plan that they'd envisaged. 728 00:39:24,797 --> 00:39:27,636 So the end of their life probably was very hard 729 00:39:27,636 --> 00:39:29,366 because of his actions. 730 00:39:29,366 --> 00:39:33,366 And so he's got 400 victims and yet he picks out 731 00:39:34,926 --> 00:39:38,027 the few that still remain friends with him. 732 00:39:38,027 --> 00:39:41,706 I'm sure that 400 people have not remained friends with him, 733 00:39:41,706 --> 00:39:46,296 maybe 10 or 20 half, maybe even more than that, 734 00:39:46,296 --> 00:39:50,987 because a lot of them really were hardcore fans of his. 735 00:39:50,987 --> 00:39:54,826 So it's easy to point to them and say, 736 00:39:54,826 --> 00:39:58,007 well, they are typical of my victim group. 737 00:39:58,007 --> 00:40:01,146 When in actual fact they are not. 738 00:40:01,146 --> 00:40:05,146 (singing in a foreign language) 739 00:40:20,287 --> 00:40:23,537 (mellow strings music) 740 00:40:26,393 --> 00:40:28,674 (speaking in a foreign language) 741 00:40:28,674 --> 00:40:30,323 -: You can only imagine standing on stage 742 00:40:30,323 --> 00:40:33,464 and being able to affect people. 743 00:40:33,464 --> 00:40:35,343 You know, they're moving, they're dancing. 744 00:40:35,343 --> 00:40:36,853 They're doing that because of you. 745 00:40:36,853 --> 00:40:38,233 And what do you think is going through their 746 00:40:38,233 --> 00:40:39,533 mind when you're performing? 747 00:40:39,533 --> 00:40:41,483 -: Well, first of all, 748 00:40:41,483 --> 00:40:46,123 make me feel good that it's work and they enjoy it. 749 00:40:46,123 --> 00:40:48,206 They forget the problems. 750 00:40:50,633 --> 00:40:54,800 When I see dancing polka professor of a university 751 00:40:57,492 --> 00:41:01,825 or a doctor and this, and they just lose themselves. 752 00:41:02,732 --> 00:41:06,052 They dancing for clapping hands. 753 00:41:06,052 --> 00:41:08,332 That make me feel good, you know? 754 00:41:08,332 --> 00:41:09,436 Yeah. -: All right. 755 00:41:09,436 --> 00:41:11,581 And so then when you move to other ventures, 756 00:41:11,581 --> 00:41:12,701 like what the, you know, 757 00:41:12,701 --> 00:41:15,081 selling the objects and things like that 758 00:41:15,081 --> 00:41:17,261 and interacting with those fans, 759 00:41:17,261 --> 00:41:19,548 how does that make you feel? 760 00:41:19,548 --> 00:41:24,215 Well, this is motion, different moments of absorbed that 761 00:41:30,201 --> 00:41:32,690 sometimes make me feel good 762 00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:37,480 that they were with the trust they go forward 763 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,509 they buy the things from my store. 764 00:41:39,509 --> 00:41:41,268 They invest the money. 765 00:41:41,268 --> 00:41:44,209 They do this, make me feel good. 766 00:41:44,209 --> 00:41:48,542 I am dedicated to them, to make that worth for them. 767 00:41:52,568 --> 00:41:55,698 Not only for me, you know, some. 768 00:41:55,698 --> 00:41:57,519 So when you got one of those investors 769 00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:00,198 who was impatient or whatever, and saying, 770 00:42:00,198 --> 00:42:02,698 Hey Jan, like, you know my money, 771 00:42:02,698 --> 00:42:04,698 what would you say to them at that point? 772 00:42:04,698 --> 00:42:08,365 -: Most of them I give them money immediately 773 00:42:09,448 --> 00:42:13,959 in the same moment till the catastrophic moment came 774 00:42:13,959 --> 00:42:18,792 that I was unable, then some of them turn to be unpatient, 775 00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:26,496 I shouldn't say ugly, but they didn't hold this love. 776 00:42:29,747 --> 00:42:34,330 You know, there was moment of hurt to handle, you know. 777 00:42:37,765 --> 00:42:41,432 (dramatic orchestral music) 778 00:42:48,796 --> 00:42:53,796 -: And you ask him why the business ultimately went barely up 779 00:42:53,851 --> 00:42:55,663 and he had to file for bankruptcy. 780 00:42:55,663 --> 00:42:58,729 He pointed to the unfortunate accident 781 00:42:58,729 --> 00:43:00,896 that he had while touring. 782 00:43:01,863 --> 00:43:04,630 It didn't make sense that the accident with the tour bus 783 00:43:04,630 --> 00:43:09,219 would have anything to do with paying investors back. 784 00:43:09,219 --> 00:43:12,734 -: Many of the clients we met had clear events 785 00:43:12,734 --> 00:43:14,166 that they alluded to as the moment 786 00:43:14,166 --> 00:43:15,603 that things happened to them. 787 00:43:15,603 --> 00:43:18,271 Like, I think that Lewan said that the accident, 788 00:43:18,271 --> 00:43:20,282 the car accident, this is like, he picked that moment. 789 00:43:20,282 --> 00:43:23,039 And that's the moment where things kind of from, you know, 790 00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:25,612 from white to black, that's when it all happened. 791 00:43:25,612 --> 00:43:27,299 If it's only weren't for the crash, 792 00:43:27,299 --> 00:43:29,045 I would have actually got the money back. 793 00:43:29,045 --> 00:43:30,093 Everything would be okay. 794 00:43:30,093 --> 00:43:32,422 -: Desperate times call for well, 795 00:43:32,422 --> 00:43:33,876 not necessarily desperate measures, 796 00:43:33,876 --> 00:43:37,385 but desperate times seem to call for optimism. 797 00:43:37,385 --> 00:43:41,239 It's so counter, there's a real thrill, 798 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,385 not just in pulling it off and getting that reward, 799 00:43:44,385 --> 00:43:47,647 whatever it may be, financial pot, the journey. 800 00:43:47,647 --> 00:43:49,401 -: Right, is it a rollercoaster 801 00:43:49,401 --> 00:43:51,318 or is it a car going over the cliff? 802 00:43:51,318 --> 00:43:53,901 (somber music) 803 00:43:55,453 --> 00:44:00,173 -: We were to Florida for six sold out concerts. 804 00:44:00,173 --> 00:44:04,501 I took the jewelry with me and everybody knew my investors. 805 00:44:04,501 --> 00:44:08,294 Everybody knew I come in, they're gonna buy 50% discount 806 00:44:08,294 --> 00:44:13,276 and everything was just perfect, but we never get there. 807 00:44:13,276 --> 00:44:16,026 My, I call him my husband in law. 808 00:44:19,793 --> 00:44:21,323 (Jan chuckles) 809 00:44:21,323 --> 00:44:23,008 Well, he married my wife. 810 00:44:23,008 --> 00:44:23,841 -: He married? 811 00:44:23,841 --> 00:44:26,426 -: Yeah, my husband in law was the driver. 812 00:44:26,426 --> 00:44:29,509 (soft pensive music) 813 00:44:35,197 --> 00:44:37,199 And he fall asleep. 814 00:44:37,199 --> 00:44:40,018 (horn honking) (tires screeching) 815 00:44:40,018 --> 00:44:42,503 (breaking glass) (siren wailing) 816 00:44:42,503 --> 00:44:45,039 Two of my musicians get killed, 817 00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:48,956 and my son was critical in the trauma hospital. 818 00:44:50,744 --> 00:44:55,327 And that was the download in my whole activities, yeah. 819 00:44:58,666 --> 00:45:02,583 So that jewelry, expensive jewelry for $400,000 820 00:45:04,468 --> 00:45:08,051 was all over the highway in South Carolina. 821 00:45:08,967 --> 00:45:11,991 And then I, bus was upside down. 822 00:45:11,991 --> 00:45:14,349 I managed to come after on the bus and I say, 823 00:45:14,349 --> 00:45:15,979 I'm gonna pick it up that jewelry. 824 00:45:15,979 --> 00:45:18,585 And so they said, no, no, no, you go to the ambulance. 825 00:45:18,585 --> 00:45:20,621 I still wanted pick it up this jewelry. 826 00:45:20,621 --> 00:45:22,412 -: Stop, stop just a second. 827 00:45:22,412 --> 00:45:23,753 I've got to stop you there. 828 00:45:23,753 --> 00:45:24,794 -: Yeah. -: Because I have 829 00:45:24,794 --> 00:45:29,294 to ask you this, two people were killed in this crash. 830 00:45:31,473 --> 00:45:33,723 Your son, terribly injured. 831 00:45:34,614 --> 00:45:36,897 You get out of the bus and your first thought 832 00:45:36,897 --> 00:45:38,732 is to pick up the jewelry. 833 00:45:38,732 --> 00:45:41,299 -: Yes, yeah, I didn't know that 834 00:45:41,299 --> 00:45:43,370 two get killed at that moment. 835 00:45:43,370 --> 00:45:44,203 -: Right. 836 00:45:44,203 --> 00:45:48,453 -: I didn't know that my son is going to the trauma. 837 00:45:49,790 --> 00:45:54,790 They were taking my remaining musicians in the ambulances 838 00:45:55,301 --> 00:45:59,134 and this, and I knew that I have to save this, 839 00:46:02,004 --> 00:46:03,883 what is all over the highway. 840 00:46:03,883 --> 00:46:05,723 -: Yes, but your bus is upside down. 841 00:46:05,723 --> 00:46:07,847 So human life is at risk. 842 00:46:07,847 --> 00:46:09,480 There are ambulances there. 843 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,211 Do you think that you had become 844 00:46:12,211 --> 00:46:15,929 too focused on material goods at that time? 845 00:46:15,929 --> 00:46:18,025 -: At that time, unfortunately, 846 00:46:18,025 --> 00:46:21,659 that was for me important to save that 847 00:46:21,659 --> 00:46:24,576 because I feel that then what next? 848 00:46:28,473 --> 00:46:32,056 I mean, I didn't see the way out, you know, 849 00:46:34,726 --> 00:46:37,643 so unfortunately yes, you're right. 850 00:46:39,624 --> 00:46:41,543 -: The Ponzi scheme had to end 851 00:46:41,543 --> 00:46:44,929 because he no longer had a way to bring in new investors. 852 00:46:44,929 --> 00:46:48,152 It was critical for him to tour. 853 00:46:48,152 --> 00:46:51,300 And he knew that if he couldn't tour, 854 00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:53,561 he couldn't bring on new investors. 855 00:46:53,561 --> 00:46:55,529 And if he can't bring new investors, 856 00:46:55,529 --> 00:46:57,559 he can't pay the old ones back. 857 00:46:57,559 --> 00:47:02,226 And that's why his scheme ended after that bus accident. 858 00:47:04,773 --> 00:47:07,190 (soft music) 859 00:47:23,842 --> 00:47:27,593 -: So here's the thought that stuck with me 860 00:47:27,593 --> 00:47:30,569 throughout the entire time we had with Jan. 861 00:47:30,569 --> 00:47:33,909 To me, he's learned that it's bad 862 00:47:33,909 --> 00:47:36,807 because he was caught, prisoned. 863 00:47:36,807 --> 00:47:39,138 Someone, I don't know if he registers 864 00:47:39,138 --> 00:47:41,991 the badness at any point. 865 00:47:41,991 --> 00:47:44,157 For every question he was asked, 866 00:47:44,157 --> 00:47:47,543 you will get the official answer and the word, "but" 867 00:47:47,543 --> 00:47:49,335 and then the truth. 868 00:47:49,335 --> 00:47:51,669 Why did you do that? 869 00:47:51,669 --> 00:47:53,919 I did it because it's X, Y, 870 00:47:54,999 --> 00:47:57,527 but actually, here is the truth. 871 00:47:57,527 --> 00:48:00,499 And if you can cut in the movie, the second part, 872 00:48:00,499 --> 00:48:03,636 you get his narrative, which is, it happened to me. 873 00:48:03,636 --> 00:48:05,931 It was the fault of other people. 874 00:48:05,931 --> 00:48:08,225 There was a lot of, and that's a dissonance. 875 00:48:08,225 --> 00:48:10,036 He lives in those two worlds. 876 00:48:10,036 --> 00:48:11,360 He knows the correct answer. 877 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,260 They kind of prepare statement. 878 00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:15,583 And he has his own answer that keeps coming up. 879 00:48:15,583 --> 00:48:16,416 He can't hide. 880 00:48:16,416 --> 00:48:19,333 -: He externalizes all of the blame. 881 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:25,400 But when you pin him down, he has to acknowledge that 882 00:48:25,406 --> 00:48:28,316 at the time that he was running this Ponzi scheme, 883 00:48:28,316 --> 00:48:30,766 and it was a Ponzi scheme, 884 00:48:30,766 --> 00:48:34,217 he knew that his actions were criminal. 885 00:48:34,217 --> 00:48:36,543 But I think that he thought 886 00:48:36,543 --> 00:48:38,881 that the end justified the means, 887 00:48:38,881 --> 00:48:41,172 it was all going to work out fine. 888 00:48:41,172 --> 00:48:44,232 And I think that here is somebody 889 00:48:44,232 --> 00:48:47,090 who has got a pretty sensational life story, 890 00:48:47,090 --> 00:48:50,315 and he has succeeded against the odds. 891 00:48:50,315 --> 00:48:55,096 And I think that he's had to come down to earth with a bump. 892 00:48:55,096 --> 00:48:58,179 (soft pensive music) 893 00:49:06,274 --> 00:49:08,849 -: Oh, well, it's about time to go home. 894 00:49:08,849 --> 00:49:09,710 (Jan chuckles) 895 00:49:09,710 --> 00:49:11,894 -: Have you enjoyed your time with us? 896 00:49:11,894 --> 00:49:13,758 -: Very much, there was subjects 897 00:49:13,758 --> 00:49:17,417 like they never before come up with that. 898 00:49:17,417 --> 00:49:20,500 So I was able to just express myself. 899 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:24,296 -: Like what? -: And I thank you. 900 00:49:24,296 --> 00:49:26,213 First of all, you know, 901 00:49:27,666 --> 00:49:29,971 I never had that really opportunity to say 902 00:49:29,971 --> 00:49:34,304 how sorry I am, and, but also never have opportunity 903 00:49:35,921 --> 00:49:38,366 that I never give up 904 00:49:38,366 --> 00:49:41,449 because I wanted repay as much I can. 905 00:49:43,757 --> 00:49:45,092 I never really looking. 906 00:49:45,092 --> 00:49:48,049 I'm driving my friend's car, I living in their home. 907 00:49:48,049 --> 00:49:52,304 I, everything I putting in to my restitution. 908 00:49:52,304 --> 00:49:57,049 -: The last sentence, heard one sentence that said, 909 00:49:57,049 --> 00:50:00,840 I wanted to say that I'm sorry, then the word, but, 910 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,821 and then a very long.. 911 00:50:02,821 --> 00:50:04,485 -: I'm sorry, but yeah. 912 00:50:04,485 --> 00:50:07,191 -: But this is something that we noticed before. 913 00:50:07,191 --> 00:50:11,608 -: I really do admire your enthusiasm and your energy. 914 00:50:12,698 --> 00:50:14,940 I wish I had your energy. 915 00:50:14,940 --> 00:50:19,190 And I think that your optimism and your self belief 916 00:50:21,912 --> 00:50:25,789 generally are good things, but there's a saying, 917 00:50:25,789 --> 00:50:28,764 "You can have too much of a good thing." 918 00:50:28,764 --> 00:50:32,560 And I think that maybe you had a bit too much optimism 919 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,560 and too much self-belief 920 00:50:35,459 --> 00:50:38,876 and you gambled with other people's money 921 00:50:39,736 --> 00:50:42,070 and other people's lives. 922 00:50:42,070 --> 00:50:44,737 So maybe that's a lesson for you 923 00:50:45,649 --> 00:50:49,486 to try and be a little bit more tempered, I think, 924 00:50:49,486 --> 00:50:50,653 in these qualities 925 00:50:50,653 --> 00:50:54,532 which are fantastic in many circumstances, 926 00:50:54,532 --> 00:50:57,090 but they can get a little out of control. 927 00:50:57,090 --> 00:51:01,065 -: Yeah, well, I cannot just to relate it to word "give up," 928 00:51:01,065 --> 00:51:03,210 I have to have that optimism. 929 00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:05,700 I have to think positive way. 930 00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:08,331 I have to put a more energy 931 00:51:08,331 --> 00:51:10,966 than a regular person in my age. 932 00:51:10,966 --> 00:51:13,817 I just don't give up, I'm gonna make it. 933 00:51:13,817 --> 00:51:14,650 Moran Cerf: You're still young. 934 00:51:14,650 --> 00:51:16,583 -: Yes, off course, but I believe it. 935 00:51:16,583 --> 00:51:19,583 (soft string music) 936 00:51:21,972 --> 00:51:22,930 -: It's a pleasure. -: Thank you. 937 00:51:22,930 --> 00:51:24,921 Pleasure meeting you, yes. 938 00:51:24,921 --> 00:51:26,429 -: Take care, Jan. 939 00:51:26,429 --> 00:51:28,062 Oh, thank you, you charmer. 940 00:51:28,062 --> 00:51:29,202 -: Thank you. 941 00:51:29,202 --> 00:51:32,176 -: Thank you so much, I appreciate that. 942 00:51:32,176 --> 00:51:33,644 I'm gonna take a plane back home 943 00:51:33,644 --> 00:51:38,138 full of positive thinking being with you guys. 944 00:51:38,138 --> 00:51:40,762 -: Okay, well, we've enjoyed meeting you. 945 00:51:40,762 --> 00:51:42,522 It's been an experience. 946 00:51:42,522 --> 00:51:43,730 -: Thank you. Kerry: Thank you. 947 00:51:43,730 --> 00:51:45,055 -: Thank you very much. 948 00:51:45,055 --> 00:51:45,991 Kerry: Have a safe journey. 949 00:51:45,991 --> 00:51:47,501 -: Thank you, thanks. 950 00:51:47,501 --> 00:51:48,518 See you in Buffalo. 951 00:51:48,518 --> 00:51:52,185 (dramatic orchestral music)