1 00:00:00,818 --> 00:00:03,589 [soft dramatic music] 2 00:00:03,688 --> 00:00:07,053 ♪ ♪ 3 00:00:07,158 --> 00:00:08,460 - Throughout history, 4 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:09,761 there have been universal characters 5 00:00:09,856 --> 00:00:12,598 that we told stories about 6 00:00:12,696 --> 00:00:15,801 as a way of demonstrating morals 7 00:00:15,895 --> 00:00:18,437 or challenges that you face. 8 00:00:18,535 --> 00:00:20,572 There were religious characters, 9 00:00:20,671 --> 00:00:25,011 mythic characters, kings and queens. 10 00:00:25,110 --> 00:00:27,679 Superheroes are what they are now, 11 00:00:27,778 --> 00:00:29,982 and it's why I believe in them as much as I do. 12 00:00:30,081 --> 00:00:32,418 [dramatic music] 13 00:00:32,516 --> 00:00:34,286 - Heroism is just very simple. 14 00:00:34,385 --> 00:00:36,488 ♪ ♪ 15 00:00:36,587 --> 00:00:38,190 Anytime somebody uses courage 16 00:00:38,289 --> 00:00:40,526 when they're afraid 17 00:00:40,625 --> 00:00:43,195 in the name of something good. 18 00:00:43,294 --> 00:00:44,596 - In the movies, 19 00:00:44,695 --> 00:00:46,966 superheroes are icons of virtue, 20 00:00:47,064 --> 00:00:49,301 symbols of our highest ideals. 21 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:50,836 - I got really obsessed with the comics, 22 00:00:50,934 --> 00:00:53,639 obviously, once I started doing the research. 23 00:00:53,738 --> 00:00:55,241 And I love them. 24 00:00:55,340 --> 00:00:56,708 - Oh, I still play with action figures, man, 25 00:00:56,808 --> 00:00:57,977 all the time. 26 00:00:58,070 --> 00:00:59,511 - There isn't a day that goes by 27 00:00:59,610 --> 00:01:01,880 when you don't walk past someone in a Batman T-shirt. 28 00:01:01,979 --> 00:01:04,216 - But the leap from page to screen 29 00:01:04,314 --> 00:01:08,387 took decades and a lot of persuasion. 30 00:01:08,486 --> 00:01:09,989 - A huge part of why 31 00:01:10,087 --> 00:01:12,224 there were so few comic book adaptations 32 00:01:12,323 --> 00:01:14,160 in the '80s and '90s is you had a lot 33 00:01:14,253 --> 00:01:15,727 of people in Hollywood that didn't believe 34 00:01:15,822 --> 00:01:17,329 in the source material. 35 00:01:17,428 --> 00:01:19,431 - Studio execs, they looked down their nose 36 00:01:19,530 --> 00:01:23,130 at the creators and said comic book characters 37 00:01:23,233 --> 00:01:24,736 didn't have much value. 38 00:01:24,835 --> 00:01:27,806 - As Hollywood learned to make superheroes fly, 39 00:01:27,905 --> 00:01:29,608 passionate creators 40 00:01:29,706 --> 00:01:32,378 transformed comics from child's play 41 00:01:32,477 --> 00:01:36,143 to sophisticated entertainment for grown-ups. 42 00:01:36,246 --> 00:01:38,617 - People who are too precious about the characters 43 00:01:38,716 --> 00:01:41,520 are never going to stretch the boundaries. 44 00:01:41,619 --> 00:01:45,691 - There was something about the writing and the art. 45 00:01:45,789 --> 00:01:48,627 It was just so smart and daring. 46 00:01:50,361 --> 00:01:52,398 - That rebellious spirit 47 00:01:52,496 --> 00:01:54,933 plus the devotion of lifelong fans, 48 00:01:55,032 --> 00:01:57,164 pushed superheroes to the center 49 00:01:57,268 --> 00:01:58,637 of popular culture 50 00:01:58,735 --> 00:02:02,041 and our collective imagination. 51 00:02:02,138 --> 00:02:05,077 - What would it be like if I could be a hero, 52 00:02:05,176 --> 00:02:07,079 if I could change the world? 53 00:02:07,177 --> 00:02:10,016 That's at the core of the superhero stories. 54 00:02:10,114 --> 00:02:12,985 There's something in our moral compass 55 00:02:13,083 --> 00:02:17,689 that tells us it's OK to want to fight for what's right. 56 00:02:17,788 --> 00:02:21,093 That's really the power. That's really being super. 57 00:02:21,192 --> 00:02:28,400 ♪ ♪ 58 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,510 - The first superhero to get a screen adaptation 59 00:02:38,609 --> 00:02:41,047 was not the one you might think. 60 00:02:41,144 --> 00:02:44,116 Captain Marvel had all of Superman's powers 61 00:02:44,215 --> 00:02:46,785 and outsold him in the 1940s. 62 00:02:46,884 --> 00:02:48,654 The comic told the story of a boy 63 00:02:48,753 --> 00:02:51,090 who could turn into a superhero 64 00:02:51,189 --> 00:02:52,258 with a single word. 65 00:02:52,356 --> 00:02:54,793 - Shazam! 66 00:02:54,891 --> 00:02:58,430 - And in 1941, Captain Marvel starred in his own 67 00:02:58,529 --> 00:03:00,332 12-part movie serial 68 00:03:00,431 --> 00:03:02,401 that transfixed young audiences 69 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:04,231 at Saturday matinees. 70 00:03:04,334 --> 00:03:07,839 But it would take 78 years, a name change, and a short run 71 00:03:07,938 --> 00:03:11,610 at TV before Captain Marvel made it to the multiplex 72 00:03:11,710 --> 00:03:16,983 in 2019 as "Shazam." 73 00:03:17,081 --> 00:03:19,585 The film revived the timeless tale 74 00:03:19,684 --> 00:03:21,287 of a powerless child who becomes 75 00:03:21,385 --> 00:03:23,122 a superpowered adult. 76 00:03:23,221 --> 00:03:25,724 - Shazam! 77 00:03:25,824 --> 00:03:27,426 ♪ ♪ 78 00:03:27,525 --> 00:03:29,095 - In everyone's life at some point, 79 00:03:29,192 --> 00:03:32,731 we had dreams of becoming something like a superhero. 80 00:03:32,830 --> 00:03:36,035 Stronger or faster or more heroic in the world. 81 00:03:36,134 --> 00:03:37,536 - All hands on deck. 82 00:03:37,635 --> 00:03:39,266 [together] Shazam! 83 00:03:40,838 --> 00:03:43,842 - This movie's touching base with that inner child 84 00:03:43,942 --> 00:03:45,811 in all of us. 85 00:03:45,910 --> 00:03:47,313 ♪ ♪ 86 00:03:47,411 --> 00:03:49,415 - Roll, please! Rolling! 87 00:03:49,513 --> 00:03:52,584 [indistinct chatter] 88 00:03:52,683 --> 00:03:55,487 - All right, fam-jam, you know what time it is. 89 00:03:55,586 --> 00:03:57,489 Let's jump in. Let's jump in. 90 00:03:57,588 --> 00:03:59,591 So going into the second movie, 91 00:03:59,690 --> 00:04:01,560 this was one of my favorite sets I've ever been on, 92 00:04:01,659 --> 00:04:03,562 of any project I've ever worked on. 93 00:04:03,661 --> 00:04:05,631 - Mary, why do you even have a job? 94 00:04:05,729 --> 00:04:07,166 You think Wonder Woman has a job? 95 00:04:07,265 --> 00:04:08,467 - Stop. - No, no, seriously. 96 00:04:08,565 --> 00:04:09,868 Do you think she wears a ponytail 97 00:04:09,967 --> 00:04:11,503 and glasses and, like, nobody recognizes her 98 00:04:11,602 --> 00:04:12,871 and she's, like, an accountant or something? 99 00:04:12,971 --> 00:04:14,073 - Just stop. 100 00:04:14,172 --> 00:04:15,507 - It's a really fun role to play because 101 00:04:15,606 --> 00:04:16,976 I just get to keep being a kid. 102 00:04:17,074 --> 00:04:19,678 [all screaming] - Who are you people? 103 00:04:19,777 --> 00:04:21,780 - I said don't freak out! Look at me. 104 00:04:21,878 --> 00:04:23,582 And video games kind of keeps me 105 00:04:23,681 --> 00:04:25,851 in that childish play mode, and I think 106 00:04:25,950 --> 00:04:29,288 that when your job is to play as a child, 107 00:04:29,387 --> 00:04:32,924 then you want to kind of stay in that playful place. 108 00:04:34,159 --> 00:04:35,694 [laughter] 109 00:04:35,792 --> 00:04:37,563 This shouldn't feel like work. 110 00:04:37,661 --> 00:04:38,830 We're playing dress up and make believe, 111 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:40,866 and we're getting paid for it. 112 00:04:40,964 --> 00:04:42,468 That was one of the greatest things 113 00:04:42,567 --> 00:04:44,403 about the first movie was hearing people 114 00:04:44,502 --> 00:04:45,704 walk out of the theater 115 00:04:45,803 --> 00:04:47,173 and they just felt better about life. 116 00:04:47,272 --> 00:04:48,407 They just felt lighter. 117 00:04:48,506 --> 00:04:50,642 There's so much that is wrong 118 00:04:50,741 --> 00:04:53,012 with this world right now, and we have opportunities 119 00:04:53,110 --> 00:04:55,214 as artists and as creators and as entertainers 120 00:04:55,313 --> 00:04:56,682 to help lift that burden 121 00:04:56,780 --> 00:04:58,917 just a little bit, man, just a little bit. 122 00:04:59,016 --> 00:05:01,320 We need to 'cause it's dark out right now. 123 00:05:01,419 --> 00:05:03,722 ♪ ♪ 124 00:05:03,821 --> 00:05:06,725 - 50 years before Shazam made it to the big screen, 125 00:05:06,824 --> 00:05:10,357 the world stood at a different precipice. 126 00:05:10,461 --> 00:05:12,398 ♪ ♪ 127 00:05:12,496 --> 00:05:16,135 [crowd chanting] 128 00:05:16,234 --> 00:05:19,338 - As a young person, it just felt like 129 00:05:19,436 --> 00:05:21,773 there was no answer anywhere. 130 00:05:21,873 --> 00:05:23,675 What do you do in the world 131 00:05:23,774 --> 00:05:26,545 when there is a prevailing culture 132 00:05:26,643 --> 00:05:28,614 where the enemy is sometimes faceless? 133 00:05:28,712 --> 00:05:31,917 How do you fight that fight? 134 00:05:32,016 --> 00:05:35,955 - And that's when I was beginning to feel like 135 00:05:36,054 --> 00:05:38,557 I was outgrowing my comic books. 136 00:05:38,656 --> 00:05:41,027 And just at that time, 137 00:05:41,125 --> 00:05:44,896 the Marvel age really truly erupted. 138 00:05:44,995 --> 00:05:47,499 - As Marvel launched its first Black superhero 139 00:05:47,593 --> 00:05:50,002 and took on pressing social problems, 140 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:53,572 the campy shenanigans of Adam West's "Batman" 141 00:05:53,671 --> 00:05:56,742 felt out of step and painfully square. 142 00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:59,711 - At that moment in time in the mid '60s, 143 00:05:59,805 --> 00:06:03,015 except to the few of us who were real comic book readers, 144 00:06:03,113 --> 00:06:07,186 the world perception of what Batman was was this show. 145 00:06:07,285 --> 00:06:09,888 And that was what was so disturbing 146 00:06:09,982 --> 00:06:11,418 to me about it, 147 00:06:11,522 --> 00:06:15,327 and I made a vow, somehow, someday, 148 00:06:15,426 --> 00:06:19,231 some way I am going to show 149 00:06:19,330 --> 00:06:21,100 the world the true Batman. 150 00:06:21,198 --> 00:06:24,136 - Young fans like Uslan, driven by their deep love 151 00:06:24,234 --> 00:06:27,006 of the characters and devotion to the medium, 152 00:06:27,103 --> 00:06:30,342 would start a new age in American comics. 153 00:06:30,441 --> 00:06:33,145 - Every generation deserves to have characters 154 00:06:33,244 --> 00:06:35,714 that fit within their generation. 155 00:06:35,812 --> 00:06:39,351 So being kids of the '60s, we had wanted very much 156 00:06:39,450 --> 00:06:42,654 to do some important stories. 157 00:06:42,753 --> 00:06:44,790 - It wasn't like we were the future 158 00:06:44,888 --> 00:06:47,093 Young Turks plotting a revolution, 159 00:06:47,192 --> 00:06:49,195 but on the other hand, we were the Young Turks 160 00:06:49,293 --> 00:06:50,362 plotting the revolution. 161 00:06:50,461 --> 00:06:51,630 We were looking to what 162 00:06:51,728 --> 00:06:53,232 the future of the field could be. 163 00:06:53,331 --> 00:06:55,901 - Writer Denny O'Neil and artist Neal Adams 164 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,837 set out to change the comics landscape 165 00:06:58,936 --> 00:07:01,707 by putting the real world in their panels. 166 00:07:01,805 --> 00:07:05,677 - They took two superheroes who were really failing. 167 00:07:05,777 --> 00:07:08,747 [rock music] 168 00:07:08,846 --> 00:07:11,750 Green Arrow representing a liberal outlook, 169 00:07:11,849 --> 00:07:14,220 and Green Lantern with a conservative outlook 170 00:07:14,318 --> 00:07:16,956 get in a pickup truck and hit the road 171 00:07:17,055 --> 00:07:19,258 to try to discover America. 172 00:07:19,357 --> 00:07:23,329 - Over 14 installments, Green Lantern and Green Arrow 173 00:07:23,428 --> 00:07:25,731 come face to face with big national issues, 174 00:07:25,830 --> 00:07:29,835 like overpopulation, discrimination, 175 00:07:29,934 --> 00:07:33,739 pollution, and drug addiction. 176 00:07:33,832 --> 00:07:36,175 - We both grew up at the time that we grew up, 177 00:07:36,274 --> 00:07:39,745 and we were very angry at society. 178 00:07:39,843 --> 00:07:41,780 That was a time of change, remember the '60s, 179 00:07:41,878 --> 00:07:45,017 big changes in America, and that was right there 180 00:07:45,116 --> 00:07:47,419 in that comic book. Bam, right in your face. 181 00:07:47,518 --> 00:07:51,457 - That was a turning point for DC Comics 182 00:07:51,555 --> 00:07:52,959 that began to be reflected 183 00:07:53,058 --> 00:07:55,522 in other comics and other heroes 184 00:07:55,626 --> 00:07:57,329 and being daring and being bold. 185 00:07:57,428 --> 00:08:00,566 - Legendary Marvel artist Jack Kirby 186 00:08:00,665 --> 00:08:02,668 came to DC in 1970 187 00:08:02,761 --> 00:08:05,737 to write his spiritual saga "New Gods." 188 00:08:05,837 --> 00:08:07,534 [dramatic music] 189 00:08:07,638 --> 00:08:10,442 - It was basically his epic, his retelling of the Bible. 190 00:08:10,541 --> 00:08:11,743 This is how everything began. 191 00:08:11,842 --> 00:08:13,212 This is how it's all going to end. 192 00:08:13,310 --> 00:08:15,481 This is what good is. This is what evil is. 193 00:08:15,574 --> 00:08:16,983 Every page has 1,000 concepts 194 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,784 that could launch 1,000 story ships. 195 00:08:18,882 --> 00:08:21,954 It's the most inspiring piece of art ever. 196 00:08:22,052 --> 00:08:25,924 - In 1972, Len Wein and Bernie Wrightson 197 00:08:26,023 --> 00:08:30,662 grafted the soul of a hero to the body of a monster, 198 00:08:30,762 --> 00:08:33,199 with "Swamp Thing." 199 00:08:33,297 --> 00:08:36,335 - Wrightson's art was just emotional 200 00:08:36,433 --> 00:08:39,605 and weird and beautiful all at the same time. 201 00:08:39,703 --> 00:08:43,943 And Len's writing had what I call a pulp poetry to it. 202 00:08:44,042 --> 00:08:45,844 It's a classic that, for me, still stands 203 00:08:45,943 --> 00:08:47,479 as one of the very best things that's come 204 00:08:47,578 --> 00:08:49,281 out of DC in all these years. 205 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:52,318 - But in a shortsighted attempt to modernize 206 00:08:52,416 --> 00:08:55,154 a member of the DC pantheon, male editors 207 00:08:55,253 --> 00:08:57,957 stripped Wonder Woman of her superpowers 208 00:08:58,056 --> 00:09:01,027 and trained her in Kung Fu. 209 00:09:01,126 --> 00:09:03,195 - They had made her give up her costume, 210 00:09:03,294 --> 00:09:06,966 and she was gonna be Groovy Diana Prince. 211 00:09:07,065 --> 00:09:09,235 She's like a spy. She's modern. 212 00:09:09,334 --> 00:09:11,003 She's groovy. 213 00:09:11,101 --> 00:09:13,572 And I was like, "I don't want to read this comic book." 214 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:15,174 - What do you want? - ERA! 215 00:09:15,273 --> 00:09:17,276 - When do you want it? - Now! 216 00:09:17,375 --> 00:09:19,278 - DC's blunder caught the attention 217 00:09:19,377 --> 00:09:21,713 of a rising leader in the feminist movement, 218 00:09:21,813 --> 00:09:23,415 Gloria Steinem. 219 00:09:23,514 --> 00:09:26,752 - Wonder Woman was very feminist and ruled 220 00:09:26,851 --> 00:09:30,056 with strength and justice and love 221 00:09:30,153 --> 00:09:33,659 and was meant to be an antidote to the violence 222 00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:36,262 in male-dominated comics. 223 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,763 And we decided it would be interesting 224 00:09:37,862 --> 00:09:39,065 to run her for president. 225 00:09:39,164 --> 00:09:40,899 So it says "Peace and justice in '72." 226 00:09:40,997 --> 00:09:44,336 - Since you brought it up, wave it in that camera. 227 00:09:44,435 --> 00:09:46,772 - The debut issue of "Ms." Magazine 228 00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:49,041 featured an essay about Wonder Woman 229 00:09:49,139 --> 00:09:52,744 as a model of strength and self-sufficiency. 230 00:09:52,844 --> 00:09:54,780 DC got the memo. 231 00:09:54,878 --> 00:09:58,017 Wonder Woman got her mojo back, 232 00:09:58,114 --> 00:10:00,953 and a few years later, ABC started looking 233 00:10:01,051 --> 00:10:03,322 for the perfect actress to bring the mythic figure 234 00:10:03,421 --> 00:10:05,324 to life on TV. 235 00:10:05,422 --> 00:10:08,427 - I really got to create my character. 236 00:10:08,525 --> 00:10:10,562 There was nothing before me. 237 00:10:10,661 --> 00:10:14,661 And I had no idea what I was doing. 238 00:10:14,765 --> 00:10:17,269 So there was a certain naivete. 239 00:10:17,368 --> 00:10:21,773 I did a lot of exploration on the mythology 240 00:10:21,872 --> 00:10:24,043 and what I could bring to this character. 241 00:10:24,142 --> 00:10:27,013 And it wasn't really on the page. 242 00:10:27,111 --> 00:10:29,881 It was people like Betty Friedan, 243 00:10:29,980 --> 00:10:34,086 Gloria Steinem, and the suffragists. 244 00:10:34,185 --> 00:10:39,725 I am woman, hear me roar kind of feminism, 245 00:10:39,824 --> 00:10:42,728 that was Wonder Woman. 246 00:10:42,827 --> 00:10:44,596 [explosion] 247 00:10:44,696 --> 00:10:47,633 [upbeat music] 248 00:10:47,732 --> 00:10:50,136 - ♪ Wonder Woman ♪ 249 00:10:50,233 --> 00:10:54,040 - In the fall of 1975, Carter's iconic "Wonder Woman" 250 00:10:54,137 --> 00:10:57,009 blazed onto TV screens, setting young hearts 251 00:10:57,108 --> 00:10:59,278 across the nation on fire. 252 00:10:59,377 --> 00:11:01,948 - There had not been a role model 253 00:11:02,047 --> 00:11:03,882 that you could emulate. 254 00:11:03,982 --> 00:11:05,317 And I was right at the age where 255 00:11:05,416 --> 00:11:07,553 pretending to be someone on the playground yard 256 00:11:07,653 --> 00:11:09,255 was a huge deal. 257 00:11:09,353 --> 00:11:11,257 All of the kids would run out, and they would be Superman 258 00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:12,324 or they'd be He-Man 259 00:11:12,423 --> 00:11:14,293 or they'd be something like that. 260 00:11:14,392 --> 00:11:16,695 And when "Wonder Woman" came out, 261 00:11:16,794 --> 00:11:18,597 it was such a revelation. 262 00:11:18,697 --> 00:11:21,233 ♪ ♪ 263 00:11:21,332 --> 00:11:22,468 [gunshots] 264 00:11:22,566 --> 00:11:24,731 That suddenly, you were desperate to be 265 00:11:24,835 --> 00:11:27,273 the one that claimed that you were Wonder Woman. 266 00:11:29,206 --> 00:11:31,143 I got a chance to experience 267 00:11:31,242 --> 00:11:32,911 exactly what the boys were experiencing, 268 00:11:33,010 --> 00:11:35,742 not in a boy-like way. 269 00:11:37,313 --> 00:11:40,419 I was having my own absolute wish fulfillment. 270 00:11:40,517 --> 00:11:44,023 - You can all be what you truly want to be. 271 00:11:44,122 --> 00:11:46,458 You're all very special. 272 00:11:47,686 --> 00:11:50,096 And you're all different. 273 00:11:50,194 --> 00:11:52,264 - Lynda was like the every woman 274 00:11:52,363 --> 00:11:54,000 that you wished you could be. 275 00:11:54,098 --> 00:11:56,335 - I never played Wonder Woman. 276 00:11:56,434 --> 00:11:58,570 I only played Diana. 277 00:11:58,670 --> 00:12:01,707 The key to Wonder Woman 278 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,512 is that she, as Diana, was relatable. 279 00:12:06,611 --> 00:12:07,947 [phone ringing] 280 00:12:08,045 --> 00:12:09,548 - Lynda Carter is famous for inventing 281 00:12:09,647 --> 00:12:11,217 the spin where she turned from Diana Prince 282 00:12:11,315 --> 00:12:13,219 to Wonder Woman on the TV show. 283 00:12:13,317 --> 00:12:15,687 With the explosion of light and the transformation 284 00:12:15,781 --> 00:12:18,024 from one sort of neat character 285 00:12:18,122 --> 00:12:20,559 to this powerful superhero, 286 00:12:20,657 --> 00:12:23,195 I was reminded of the power 287 00:12:23,294 --> 00:12:25,864 to become something bigger than yourself. 288 00:12:25,963 --> 00:12:27,794 And I think even at a young age, 289 00:12:27,899 --> 00:12:29,235 it was something that spoke to me. 290 00:12:29,333 --> 00:12:31,103 It was something that resonated with me. 291 00:12:31,202 --> 00:12:32,871 [soft dramatic music] 292 00:12:32,969 --> 00:12:36,008 - It isn't just putting a woman 293 00:12:36,107 --> 00:12:38,945 in a superhero costume. 294 00:12:39,043 --> 00:12:42,681 It's about somehow convincing the world 295 00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:45,217 that there is a better way. 296 00:12:45,316 --> 00:12:46,813 - You really do believe that people can learn 297 00:12:46,918 --> 00:12:48,254 to change for the better? 298 00:12:48,354 --> 00:12:49,788 - Yes. 299 00:12:49,887 --> 00:12:51,357 Where I was raised, we were taught 300 00:12:51,456 --> 00:12:54,026 that good must triumph over evil 301 00:12:54,125 --> 00:12:57,596 and that women and men can learn. 302 00:12:57,696 --> 00:12:59,265 ♪ ♪ 303 00:12:59,364 --> 00:13:01,700 - "Wonder Woman's" message of equality 304 00:13:01,798 --> 00:13:04,236 reverberated around the world. 305 00:13:05,602 --> 00:13:09,942 While back at home, another popular show 306 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,178 fielded a whole squad of superheroes 307 00:13:12,276 --> 00:13:16,082 whose adventures taught the value of teamwork. 308 00:13:16,179 --> 00:13:18,217 - In the Great Hall of the Justice League, 309 00:13:18,316 --> 00:13:20,052 there are assembled 310 00:13:20,151 --> 00:13:21,653 the world's four greatest heroes. 311 00:13:21,752 --> 00:13:23,889 - "Super Friends" was TV's first team up 312 00:13:23,988 --> 00:13:25,424 of all of these characters. 313 00:13:25,523 --> 00:13:27,426 It was the first time that I'm not just 314 00:13:27,524 --> 00:13:29,061 going to get a Superman story, and I'm not just 315 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,662 going to get a Wonder Woman story, 316 00:13:30,761 --> 00:13:32,564 and I'm not just going to get a Batman story. 317 00:13:32,663 --> 00:13:34,300 I'm gonna get all of these characters together. 318 00:13:34,398 --> 00:13:36,035 It's kind of obvious that, right, 319 00:13:36,134 --> 00:13:37,536 that we would all grow up and want to do 320 00:13:37,629 --> 00:13:39,405 comic book shows and movies. 321 00:13:39,503 --> 00:13:41,473 - But to many comics readers, the fourth member 322 00:13:41,572 --> 00:13:46,612 of this superhero dream team still felt like a fifth wheel. 323 00:13:46,711 --> 00:13:48,447 - If my aquatic telepathy 324 00:13:48,546 --> 00:13:50,549 works on these strange Exxorian fish, 325 00:13:50,648 --> 00:13:54,686 I should be able to stop Darkon's men. 326 00:13:54,785 --> 00:13:58,357 - Aquaman was considered a joke of a character, 327 00:13:58,456 --> 00:14:01,427 and I remember when I started writing the "Aquaman" book, 328 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:02,661 and people told me, 329 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:04,430 "Why are you wasting your time on Aquaman?" 330 00:14:04,528 --> 00:14:06,732 But as a writer, it's just much more fun to me 331 00:14:06,830 --> 00:14:10,036 to take an obscure character and crack them open 332 00:14:10,134 --> 00:14:13,572 and look at them and really get inside them 333 00:14:13,665 --> 00:14:16,308 because it hadn't been done. 334 00:14:16,401 --> 00:14:19,811 If I look at Aquaman and say if his world and his stories 335 00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:22,314 are as rich and deep as Batman and Superman 336 00:14:22,413 --> 00:14:26,084 and everyone else, what are they? 337 00:14:27,418 --> 00:14:30,556 - Geoff Johns' 2011 retelling of the Aquaman story 338 00:14:30,655 --> 00:14:33,359 filled in the under-loved hero's world 339 00:14:33,457 --> 00:14:37,263 on land and beneath the sea. 340 00:14:37,361 --> 00:14:39,698 John's book would become the blueprint 341 00:14:39,798 --> 00:14:41,567 for a 2018 screen adaptation 342 00:14:41,666 --> 00:14:43,802 with a star who bore little resemblance 343 00:14:43,901 --> 00:14:47,306 to the title character, at least on the surface. 344 00:14:47,405 --> 00:14:51,077 - And I'm like, "Who? You want me to play what?" 345 00:14:51,175 --> 00:14:52,911 All I can just think is "White, white 346 00:14:53,011 --> 00:14:55,847 blonde hair, shaved. Not me." 347 00:14:55,947 --> 00:14:57,216 And they tell me the whole pitch. 348 00:14:57,315 --> 00:15:01,153 And I was like, "Wow, hell yeah." 349 00:15:01,252 --> 00:15:02,721 - His father is a lighthouse keeper, 350 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:05,857 and his mother is the queen of Atlantis. 351 00:15:05,956 --> 00:15:09,195 And there's a lot of tension between these two worlds. 352 00:15:09,293 --> 00:15:11,063 - I mean, that resonated with me instantly, 353 00:15:11,162 --> 00:15:13,165 being born in Hawaii and raised in Iowa, 354 00:15:13,264 --> 00:15:15,301 being split between my parents. 355 00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:17,469 - On the land, he feels like an outsider, 356 00:15:17,568 --> 00:15:20,539 but in Atlantis, he's the heir to the throne. 357 00:15:20,637 --> 00:15:22,474 - And the only one that can walk between those two 358 00:15:22,573 --> 00:15:25,144 is myself, and it's the guy that doesn't want to do it. 359 00:15:25,243 --> 00:15:26,712 - How many times do I have to tell you? 360 00:15:26,811 --> 00:15:28,114 I don't want to be king. 361 00:15:28,213 --> 00:15:29,481 - And he's gotta learn to become 362 00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:31,517 the bridge between these two worlds 363 00:15:31,615 --> 00:15:34,486 to save the world from going to war with Atlantis. 364 00:15:34,586 --> 00:15:36,422 ♪ ♪ 365 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,426 - Aquaman needed to get a little bit of a boost, 366 00:15:40,524 --> 00:15:43,295 and so I played it completely different. 367 00:15:43,394 --> 00:15:45,864 - Here we go. And action. 368 00:15:45,963 --> 00:15:48,434 [dramatic music] 369 00:15:48,532 --> 00:15:51,503 - Bang. I hope we can get it all. 370 00:15:51,603 --> 00:15:52,938 - [grunts] 371 00:15:53,037 --> 00:15:54,240 He's a brawler. 372 00:15:54,338 --> 00:15:55,975 He's someone that just headbutts 373 00:15:56,074 --> 00:15:58,677 and gets in bar fights. 374 00:15:58,776 --> 00:16:01,313 He's blue collar. They're drinkers, you know? 375 00:16:01,412 --> 00:16:02,949 Not one to talk about their emotions. 376 00:16:03,048 --> 00:16:05,917 And I resonated with that. 377 00:16:06,012 --> 00:16:07,653 - Your mother always knew you'd be the one 378 00:16:07,751 --> 00:16:10,556 to unite our two worlds. - Just stop. 379 00:16:10,655 --> 00:16:12,591 - But also that weakness, his humanity 380 00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:14,260 is what's going to make him a king. 381 00:16:14,359 --> 00:16:16,628 - A king fights only for his nation. 382 00:16:16,723 --> 00:16:20,332 You fight for everyone. 383 00:16:22,033 --> 00:16:24,736 [cheers and applause] 384 00:16:24,835 --> 00:16:27,473 - "Aquaman," directed by James Wan, 385 00:16:27,572 --> 00:16:30,842 became the highest-grossing film in DC's history, 386 00:16:30,941 --> 00:16:35,314 netting over a billion dollars at the box office worldwide. 387 00:16:35,413 --> 00:16:40,047 The victory of this once-belittled superhero 388 00:16:40,151 --> 00:16:42,121 showed hit comic book movies 389 00:16:42,219 --> 00:16:44,690 start with the source material. 390 00:16:45,956 --> 00:16:49,395 And strong stories were the priority for a new leader 391 00:16:49,494 --> 00:16:52,531 who came to DC in 1976. 392 00:16:55,032 --> 00:16:58,637 28-year-old Jenette Kahn had no comic book experience 393 00:16:58,736 --> 00:17:01,673 when Warner hired her to replace Carmine Infantino 394 00:17:01,773 --> 00:17:03,442 as publisher. 395 00:17:03,541 --> 00:17:06,073 - There was a lot of fear and loathing 396 00:17:06,177 --> 00:17:07,646 that I had been hired. 397 00:17:07,740 --> 00:17:08,981 How did she come here? 398 00:17:09,075 --> 00:17:11,350 And she's not a comic book person, 399 00:17:11,449 --> 00:17:13,252 and she's young, and she's a woman. 400 00:17:13,349 --> 00:17:16,989 - This was a company that was completely inbred and insular. 401 00:17:17,087 --> 00:17:20,559 It had never had an outsider in a management position. 402 00:17:20,658 --> 00:17:23,029 It had never had a woman in a management position. 403 00:17:23,127 --> 00:17:26,532 Except for the fact that she was smart and Jewish, 404 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,167 she had pretty much nothing 405 00:17:28,266 --> 00:17:29,535 in common with all of the people 406 00:17:29,633 --> 00:17:31,403 she was inheriting as her team. 407 00:17:31,502 --> 00:17:34,506 - In fact, DC corporate hired Kahn because 408 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,543 of her successful track record with children's magazines, 409 00:17:37,642 --> 00:17:39,778 a clear indicator of who they thought 410 00:17:39,878 --> 00:17:41,180 their product was for. 411 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:43,649 - Comics were considered a disposable, 412 00:17:43,747 --> 00:17:46,152 ephemeral medium, simply for kids. 413 00:17:46,249 --> 00:17:49,855 And there was a real sense of shame about working 414 00:17:49,949 --> 00:17:52,324 in the comic book industry. 415 00:17:52,423 --> 00:17:57,063 But I came to DC with a very important feeling 416 00:17:57,162 --> 00:17:58,630 that comics were an art form. 417 00:17:58,729 --> 00:18:00,199 We're in the business of telling stories 418 00:18:00,297 --> 00:18:02,368 in pictures and words, 419 00:18:02,466 --> 00:18:04,270 and if we think of comics that way, 420 00:18:04,369 --> 00:18:07,539 we can tell any kind of story. 421 00:18:07,638 --> 00:18:11,410 - One untold story was long overdue. 422 00:18:11,509 --> 00:18:13,279 To script its first ever series 423 00:18:13,376 --> 00:18:16,415 featuring an African-American superhero in the title role, 424 00:18:16,513 --> 00:18:20,052 DC hired writer Tony Isabella. 425 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:24,190 - I wanted to do, basically, my ultimate Black superhero. 426 00:18:24,288 --> 00:18:26,292 I wanted someone who would be a role model, 427 00:18:26,391 --> 00:18:28,927 someone kids could relate to. 428 00:18:29,027 --> 00:18:30,329 He was an Olympic athlete 429 00:18:30,428 --> 00:18:32,231 who gave the Black Power salute 430 00:18:32,329 --> 00:18:34,433 at the Olympics. 431 00:18:34,532 --> 00:18:38,137 Those guys had their athletic careers ruined. 432 00:18:38,235 --> 00:18:40,272 So he became a schoolteacher, 433 00:18:40,371 --> 00:18:42,808 fighting crime in the inner city. 434 00:18:42,907 --> 00:18:46,173 That was Jefferson Pierce, Black Lightning. 435 00:18:48,545 --> 00:18:53,485 - "Black Lightning" struck the stands in 1977. 436 00:18:53,584 --> 00:18:55,821 - I remember opening that bag, 437 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,186 and inside was the first issue of "Black Lightning." 438 00:18:59,289 --> 00:19:04,863 And I felt something that I had never felt before. 439 00:19:04,962 --> 00:19:08,000 I think, for the first time, I felt invested. 440 00:19:08,099 --> 00:19:10,869 I could relate to almost everything 441 00:19:10,969 --> 00:19:13,605 that was on the page. 442 00:19:13,704 --> 00:19:15,574 This was a very human story, 443 00:19:15,672 --> 00:19:17,509 and it was a very immediate story. 444 00:19:17,608 --> 00:19:19,178 It was very sociopolitical. 445 00:19:19,277 --> 00:19:21,880 It was all of those things. 446 00:19:21,978 --> 00:19:25,751 - DC had caught up, but not even a new superhero 447 00:19:25,850 --> 00:19:27,987 could turn the failing comics market around. 448 00:19:28,086 --> 00:19:29,855 ♪ ♪ 449 00:19:29,953 --> 00:19:32,024 - The newsstands of America were drying up 450 00:19:32,123 --> 00:19:33,425 as a place to sell magazines. 451 00:19:33,524 --> 00:19:36,028 Comic book sales were plummeting. 452 00:19:36,127 --> 00:19:37,863 - Americans were moving to the suburbs 453 00:19:37,961 --> 00:19:40,132 where chain stores refused to give floor space 454 00:19:40,231 --> 00:19:41,367 to spinner racks. 455 00:19:41,465 --> 00:19:43,102 Comics were returned unsold 456 00:19:43,201 --> 00:19:46,233 and DC's investments wasted. 457 00:19:46,332 --> 00:19:48,540 Fighting to regain market share, 458 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,076 Khan doubled down. 459 00:19:50,174 --> 00:19:52,744 The company churned out new comics in a campaign 460 00:19:52,844 --> 00:19:56,148 they dubbed The DC Explosion. 461 00:19:56,246 --> 00:19:58,584 - Let's really try to co-opt as much newsstand space 462 00:19:58,682 --> 00:20:02,421 as we can by putting out as many comics as we can. 463 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:07,254 We trumpeted quantity over quality. 464 00:20:07,353 --> 00:20:09,895 - In the winter of 1978, a blizzard 465 00:20:09,993 --> 00:20:12,698 of historic proportions knocked out deliveries, 466 00:20:12,797 --> 00:20:16,902 while skyrocketing inflation drove DC's staggering sales 467 00:20:17,001 --> 00:20:18,570 into the ground. 468 00:20:18,669 --> 00:20:22,774 Overnight, the DC Explosion became the DC implosion. 469 00:20:22,873 --> 00:20:24,776 The company laid off much of its staff 470 00:20:24,875 --> 00:20:28,080 and abruptly canceled 17 comic book series, 471 00:20:28,179 --> 00:20:31,017 including "Black Lightning." 472 00:20:31,115 --> 00:20:33,819 - Nobody who was working at DC in the mid '70s 473 00:20:33,917 --> 00:20:36,888 thought the industry was going to be around very long. 474 00:20:36,987 --> 00:20:41,027 Something had to be done. Answers had to be found. 475 00:20:41,125 --> 00:20:44,964 - With DC's future hanging in the balance, 476 00:20:45,061 --> 00:20:49,135 Warner gambled big on a movie about the superhero 477 00:20:49,234 --> 00:20:51,470 who started it all. 478 00:20:51,568 --> 00:20:53,300 - Nobody thought that this would make 479 00:20:53,404 --> 00:20:54,906 a very good picture. 480 00:20:55,006 --> 00:20:56,408 Everybody, I guess, had the memory 481 00:20:56,507 --> 00:20:57,776 of the "Batman" television series, 482 00:20:57,874 --> 00:20:59,645 and they thought "It's just gonna be campy, 483 00:20:59,743 --> 00:21:02,348 and we can't have two and a half hours of camp." 484 00:21:02,445 --> 00:21:06,085 - Even with famed "Godfather" writer Mario Puzo attached, 485 00:21:06,182 --> 00:21:09,221 the movie had trouble getting off the ground. 486 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,357 Untested flying technology 487 00:21:11,456 --> 00:21:13,320 and a director change midstream 488 00:21:13,424 --> 00:21:17,964 pushed the schedule behind and the budget into the red. 489 00:21:18,061 --> 00:21:20,566 When the new director Richard Donner came on, 490 00:21:20,664 --> 00:21:23,669 he began to course correct, starting with 491 00:21:23,769 --> 00:21:25,471 the tone of the script. 492 00:21:25,569 --> 00:21:27,573 - They had a different approach 493 00:21:27,673 --> 00:21:29,741 to Superman than I did. 494 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,880 Their approach was kind of a parody on a parody. 495 00:21:34,979 --> 00:21:37,649 I said, "This is Superman. This is apple pie. 496 00:21:37,749 --> 00:21:39,385 This is Americana." 497 00:21:39,478 --> 00:21:41,153 It was a part of American history, 498 00:21:41,252 --> 00:21:43,755 and to me, it had its own sense of reality. 499 00:21:43,854 --> 00:21:47,859 The mission was to keep it straight. 500 00:21:47,958 --> 00:21:50,162 - With the screenplay in surgery, 501 00:21:50,261 --> 00:21:52,798 an intensive search began for the actor 502 00:21:52,896 --> 00:21:55,362 who would embody the Man of Steel. 503 00:21:55,465 --> 00:22:00,739 - Robert Redford, Paul Newman, and every major American star. 504 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:02,774 My problem was, I would have 505 00:22:02,873 --> 00:22:04,876 a very difficult time seeing them fly. 506 00:22:04,975 --> 00:22:07,579 If you didn't believe Superman could fly, 507 00:22:07,678 --> 00:22:09,748 then you didn't believe Superman was real, 508 00:22:09,847 --> 00:22:12,952 and I felt we should go for an unknown. 509 00:22:13,050 --> 00:22:14,486 - Thank you very much for finding the time 510 00:22:14,586 --> 00:22:15,854 for this interview. 511 00:22:15,952 --> 00:22:17,689 I realize there must be many questions 512 00:22:17,788 --> 00:22:19,525 about me the world would like to know the answers to. 513 00:22:19,623 --> 00:22:22,728 - Christopher Reeve was known mainly for his work on stage 514 00:22:22,826 --> 00:22:25,464 and in soap operas, but his earnest take 515 00:22:25,562 --> 00:22:29,801 on Superman aligned perfectly with Donner's grounded vision. 516 00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:31,937 - What sets Superman apart is that he's 517 00:22:32,031 --> 00:22:33,572 got the kind of maturity 518 00:22:33,671 --> 00:22:34,941 or he's got the innocence, really, 519 00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:37,143 to look at the world very, very simply. 520 00:22:37,241 --> 00:22:40,112 When he says, "I'm here to fight for truth..." 521 00:22:40,211 --> 00:22:42,714 "For justice, and the American way." 522 00:22:42,813 --> 00:22:45,451 - Everybody goes... [chuckles] 523 00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:48,354 You know? But he's not kidding. 524 00:22:48,447 --> 00:22:49,989 - The way to make this movie 525 00:22:50,087 --> 00:22:54,421 was to treat it like it was important, 526 00:22:54,525 --> 00:22:59,198 like it was an important piece of American mythology. 527 00:22:59,296 --> 00:23:01,633 - By the way, real doesn't mean grim and gritty. 528 00:23:01,732 --> 00:23:03,735 Real just means emotionally real. 529 00:23:03,834 --> 00:23:07,239 And with "Superman," it's normal people reacting 530 00:23:07,338 --> 00:23:08,975 to something extraordinary. 531 00:23:09,073 --> 00:23:12,111 - [screaming] 532 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:13,980 - Look up there! 533 00:23:15,479 --> 00:23:17,216 - What the hell is that? 534 00:23:18,682 --> 00:23:20,686 - Easy, miss. I've got you. 535 00:23:20,784 --> 00:23:23,422 - You've got me? Who's got you? 536 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,425 [triumphant music] 537 00:23:26,525 --> 00:23:28,160 ♪ ♪ 538 00:23:28,258 --> 00:23:32,698 - "Superman" swept up $300 million in ticket sales, 539 00:23:32,796 --> 00:23:35,034 won an Academy Award for special effects, 540 00:23:35,132 --> 00:23:39,238 and launched a chain of blockbuster sequels. 541 00:23:41,439 --> 00:23:43,875 - On January 26, 1979, 542 00:23:43,975 --> 00:23:45,472 I went to see "Superman," the movie. 543 00:23:45,576 --> 00:23:48,147 And I went in aimless and not knowing 544 00:23:48,245 --> 00:23:51,817 what the future is and being afraid of the future. 545 00:23:51,916 --> 00:23:54,453 When I was a kid, I didn't have any friends 546 00:23:54,552 --> 00:23:56,755 because I was changing schools all the time. 547 00:23:56,855 --> 00:23:58,857 I went into that movie theater 548 00:23:58,955 --> 00:24:02,261 just feeling like no one cared about me, no one saw me, 549 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,731 no one heard me. Superman cares about everybody. 550 00:24:05,831 --> 00:24:07,833 [tender music] 551 00:24:07,931 --> 00:24:10,869 He doesn't care whether you're rich or poor 552 00:24:10,969 --> 00:24:13,372 or where you come from. 553 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:15,307 And I came out of that movie convinced that 554 00:24:15,406 --> 00:24:17,343 whatever I was going to do with the rest of my life, 555 00:24:17,442 --> 00:24:19,811 it was going to have to have something to do with Superman. 556 00:24:23,447 --> 00:24:25,917 - If the Chris Reeve, Dick Donner movie 557 00:24:26,017 --> 00:24:27,586 hadn't succeeded that year, 558 00:24:27,685 --> 00:24:29,021 DC might have ended up 559 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:31,290 with a very, very minimal publishing schedule, 560 00:24:31,389 --> 00:24:35,522 and the company that you think of might not have survived. 561 00:24:36,727 --> 00:24:39,098 - Riding high on "Superman's" success, 562 00:24:39,197 --> 00:24:42,334 DC embraced a new way to reach readers. 563 00:24:42,433 --> 00:24:45,337 [rock music] 564 00:24:45,436 --> 00:24:47,974 ♪ ♪ 565 00:24:48,071 --> 00:24:50,977 The comic shop started in the 1970s 566 00:24:51,074 --> 00:24:55,381 as a spot for teenage fans to buy, trade, and argue 567 00:24:55,479 --> 00:24:57,383 about old back issues. 568 00:24:57,482 --> 00:24:59,718 By the early 1980s, 569 00:24:59,817 --> 00:25:01,420 driven by demand from older readers, 570 00:25:01,518 --> 00:25:04,823 new shops were opening across the country. 571 00:25:04,921 --> 00:25:07,726 - That really became the whole new face 572 00:25:07,825 --> 00:25:09,328 of comic book distribution. 573 00:25:09,426 --> 00:25:12,431 It's really what saved comics from oblivion. 574 00:25:12,529 --> 00:25:14,333 - Comics were hot. 575 00:25:14,432 --> 00:25:16,768 But for many, DC's tangled continuity 576 00:25:16,868 --> 00:25:19,105 was a barrier to entry. 577 00:25:19,204 --> 00:25:22,942 - The problem was a lot of the Marvel fans 578 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,743 did not understand what DC was about 579 00:25:24,836 --> 00:25:26,812 because they didn't understand why they had so many 580 00:25:26,910 --> 00:25:29,548 multiple characters that were all the same. 581 00:25:29,646 --> 00:25:32,018 We were dealing with things like the multiverse. 582 00:25:32,117 --> 00:25:33,919 Words that are very common today, 583 00:25:34,019 --> 00:25:36,655 but back then were not. 584 00:25:36,748 --> 00:25:41,027 And it suddenly hits me, we need to change this. 585 00:25:41,126 --> 00:25:46,065 Let's begin the universe fresh today. 586 00:25:47,431 --> 00:25:48,934 It had to be revolutionary. 587 00:25:49,032 --> 00:25:51,637 It had to be something that everyone would go, 588 00:25:51,736 --> 00:25:53,973 "Oh, my God, they're serious? 589 00:25:54,071 --> 00:25:57,576 They're going to do that? That's impossible." 590 00:25:57,675 --> 00:26:01,647 - In the most cataclysmic crossover of DC's history, 591 00:26:01,746 --> 00:26:04,250 Marv Wolfman and artist George Perez 592 00:26:04,349 --> 00:26:06,052 ended the DC multiverse 593 00:26:06,150 --> 00:26:08,787 with a 12-issue standalone event 594 00:26:08,885 --> 00:26:10,957 that killed off characters and worlds 595 00:26:11,055 --> 00:26:13,759 until a single Earth was left. 596 00:26:13,858 --> 00:26:15,761 - They took the unprecedented step 597 00:26:15,854 --> 00:26:20,032 of deciding we're gonna wipe all of the baggage away. 598 00:26:20,131 --> 00:26:23,269 We're gonna restart and unify them 599 00:26:23,368 --> 00:26:27,106 into a DC Universe for the first time. 600 00:26:27,205 --> 00:26:29,075 - "Crisis on Infinite Earths" happened, 601 00:26:29,173 --> 00:26:31,343 and the Flash died at the end of it. 602 00:26:31,442 --> 00:26:34,213 [dramatic music] 603 00:26:34,311 --> 00:26:38,150 And that was the first time I ever cried in a comic book. 604 00:26:38,249 --> 00:26:41,087 And I remember realizing at that time, 605 00:26:41,186 --> 00:26:43,022 like, I'm so connected to this character. 606 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,224 And now I have to go back and learn everything about them. 607 00:26:45,323 --> 00:26:48,927 And in a way, his end was my beginning 608 00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:51,463 - Wolfman's decision to burn down the multiverse 609 00:26:51,562 --> 00:26:53,765 gave other creators a clean slate 610 00:26:53,864 --> 00:26:55,901 to breathe new life and new depth 611 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,071 into classic DC characters. 612 00:26:59,169 --> 00:27:01,540 - So coming out of "Crisis on Infinite Earths," 613 00:27:01,639 --> 00:27:03,109 we have a brand new Earth. 614 00:27:03,207 --> 00:27:04,944 Well, let's reintroduce the characters 615 00:27:05,043 --> 00:27:07,013 as if they had not existed before. 616 00:27:07,111 --> 00:27:10,149 So DC brought John Byrne over from Marvel. 617 00:27:10,246 --> 00:27:12,018 He was the biggest talent in comics at the time. 618 00:27:12,115 --> 00:27:15,654 Let's give him "Superman." Do it completely from scratch. 619 00:27:15,747 --> 00:27:17,823 And think about what is your life 620 00:27:17,922 --> 00:27:20,159 really like if those are your abilities, 621 00:27:20,258 --> 00:27:21,860 if those have your powers, 622 00:27:21,958 --> 00:27:23,329 if that's how you perceive the world 623 00:27:23,422 --> 00:27:26,598 with your superpowers. 624 00:27:26,698 --> 00:27:28,067 Same with "Wonder Woman," 625 00:27:28,166 --> 00:27:29,835 let's give her to George Perez. 626 00:27:29,934 --> 00:27:31,037 - George Perez's "Wonder Woman" 627 00:27:31,135 --> 00:27:32,604 was my everything. 628 00:27:32,703 --> 00:27:34,806 His run on "Wonder Woman" is ultimately what drove me 629 00:27:34,906 --> 00:27:36,675 to apply to art school. 630 00:27:36,774 --> 00:27:39,911 To this day, I can't get over the amount of information 631 00:27:40,011 --> 00:27:41,613 he put on a page. 632 00:27:41,712 --> 00:27:43,115 I'd never seen comic pages 633 00:27:43,214 --> 00:27:46,152 that were so dense with panels. 634 00:27:46,249 --> 00:27:48,654 But what really struck me about the George Perez stuff 635 00:27:48,754 --> 00:27:50,756 is he was a really good actor. 636 00:27:50,855 --> 00:27:54,526 By that I mean, his characters who are different sizes 637 00:27:54,625 --> 00:27:57,829 and shapes, look differently, and they stood 638 00:27:57,928 --> 00:27:59,798 and they dressed and they acted 639 00:27:59,897 --> 00:28:01,933 and they behaved and they fought in ways 640 00:28:02,033 --> 00:28:04,136 that were unique to them. 641 00:28:04,235 --> 00:28:06,072 And to me, that was the magic of George Perez. 642 00:28:06,171 --> 00:28:07,806 It was a way of thinking. 643 00:28:07,905 --> 00:28:10,737 It was a sensibility where each character was unique. 644 00:28:10,841 --> 00:28:14,780 And he was gonna bring out that uniqueness with the art. 645 00:28:16,714 --> 00:28:18,217 - One of the most important decisions 646 00:28:18,316 --> 00:28:21,748 I think I made at DC was to commission 647 00:28:21,852 --> 00:28:26,058 the people who turned comics into a sophisticated art form, 648 00:28:26,156 --> 00:28:30,096 and that began with bringing Frank Miller over to DC. 649 00:28:30,194 --> 00:28:31,930 [soft dramatic music] 650 00:28:32,029 --> 00:28:33,665 - Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns" 651 00:28:33,764 --> 00:28:36,535 is a sharply modern take on the Batman legend, 652 00:28:36,634 --> 00:28:39,538 set against the harsh reality of the Reagan regime 653 00:28:39,637 --> 00:28:42,474 and filled with the fury of the times. 654 00:28:42,573 --> 00:28:45,477 - Most of the basic assumptions of comics, 655 00:28:45,576 --> 00:28:47,579 up until the past two years, were all 656 00:28:47,678 --> 00:28:49,348 pretty much set in the '40s. 657 00:28:49,447 --> 00:28:51,717 And everything had to happen in a very benevolent world 658 00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:53,219 where you can always trust the cops, 659 00:28:53,317 --> 00:28:54,954 you can always trust your elected officials, 660 00:28:55,053 --> 00:28:56,555 you can always trust your parents. 661 00:28:56,654 --> 00:28:58,757 It's unfortunate that for so many years, 662 00:28:58,856 --> 00:29:00,960 the basic idea of superheroes 663 00:29:01,058 --> 00:29:04,997 was made impossible by putting it in a world 664 00:29:05,096 --> 00:29:08,067 where it didn't need any. 665 00:29:08,165 --> 00:29:11,170 - Miller reinvents Batman as a middle-aged loner, 666 00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:14,340 angry at corrupt officials and willing to use 667 00:29:14,439 --> 00:29:17,076 any means necessary to expose them. 668 00:29:17,174 --> 00:29:18,910 - I felt that there was no way to really do Batman 669 00:29:19,009 --> 00:29:20,879 without addressing the fact that, at least at the start 670 00:29:20,978 --> 00:29:22,448 of the story, he's an anachronism. 671 00:29:22,546 --> 00:29:24,050 There's something very antiquated 672 00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:25,484 about the whole notion, 673 00:29:25,583 --> 00:29:27,219 and the effort of "Dark Knight" 674 00:29:27,318 --> 00:29:30,722 was to revive it, to make the idea work 675 00:29:30,822 --> 00:29:32,658 in a modern context. 676 00:29:32,756 --> 00:29:35,761 - When Batman's war on gangs becomes an embarrassment 677 00:29:35,860 --> 00:29:37,929 to Washington, he finds himself 678 00:29:38,023 --> 00:29:41,567 up against an unlikely foe, Superman, 679 00:29:41,667 --> 00:29:43,102 drawn as an enforcer 680 00:29:43,201 --> 00:29:45,371 for the Reagan government police state. 681 00:29:45,469 --> 00:29:48,307 - It's a book that defied all the conventions 682 00:29:48,405 --> 00:29:50,209 of what we had done previously. 683 00:29:50,308 --> 00:29:54,813 It was political, social commentary driven. 684 00:29:54,906 --> 00:29:56,648 It was further off any model sheet 685 00:29:56,747 --> 00:30:00,352 for what Batman had been, the look of the character. 686 00:30:00,451 --> 00:30:03,589 Each individual decision there was pretty courageous. 687 00:30:03,687 --> 00:30:05,591 And there's no question, Jenette and I 688 00:30:05,689 --> 00:30:08,060 spent lots of years debating back and forth 689 00:30:08,159 --> 00:30:09,795 on individual choices, 690 00:30:09,894 --> 00:30:14,700 I would have been more careful, and she was more daring. 691 00:30:14,798 --> 00:30:17,203 - It was the generation of creators coming in 692 00:30:17,302 --> 00:30:18,937 who had grown up reading comic books, 693 00:30:19,036 --> 00:30:22,208 and now they were able to do their expressions of it. 694 00:30:22,306 --> 00:30:24,043 These are kind of political works 695 00:30:24,142 --> 00:30:26,778 that had a point of view that were not in step 696 00:30:26,872 --> 00:30:29,115 with what was going on at the time. 697 00:30:29,213 --> 00:30:31,984 - "Watchmen" was a disruptive look 698 00:30:32,083 --> 00:30:33,685 at superheroes themselves 699 00:30:33,784 --> 00:30:37,289 by a young English writer named Alan Moore. 700 00:30:37,388 --> 00:30:40,292 - What we want to do is to actually examine 701 00:30:40,391 --> 00:30:43,062 the implications of the superhero, 702 00:30:43,161 --> 00:30:45,931 if these absurd characters were real, 703 00:30:46,031 --> 00:30:47,933 just what they'd do to the world. 704 00:30:48,032 --> 00:30:51,770 If you've got a character of Superman's level and power 705 00:30:51,870 --> 00:30:53,739 working for the Americans, 706 00:30:53,837 --> 00:30:57,176 what would American foreign policy be like? 707 00:30:57,275 --> 00:30:58,844 Perhaps be a little bit more adventurous, 708 00:30:58,942 --> 00:31:00,907 and I should imagine that Russian foreign policy 709 00:31:01,012 --> 00:31:02,909 would be a little less adventurous. 710 00:31:05,315 --> 00:31:07,653 - Moore sets the story in an alternate 1985, 711 00:31:07,752 --> 00:31:10,456 under the looming threat of nuclear war. 712 00:31:10,554 --> 00:31:13,225 The only super being and America's protector, 713 00:31:13,324 --> 00:31:15,561 Dr. Manhattan, has abandoned Earth 714 00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:18,030 to a handful of costumed vigilantes, 715 00:31:18,129 --> 00:31:20,366 one of whom annihilates the city 716 00:31:20,464 --> 00:31:24,070 of New York in the name of uniting the world. 717 00:31:24,169 --> 00:31:26,205 - "Watchmen" is not written by someone 718 00:31:26,303 --> 00:31:28,440 who loves superhero comics. [chuckles] 719 00:31:28,539 --> 00:31:30,042 Watchmen is written by someone who knows superhero comics 720 00:31:30,141 --> 00:31:32,911 deeply and respects them, 721 00:31:33,010 --> 00:31:35,114 but it's from someone who can look at them at a distance 722 00:31:35,213 --> 00:31:37,183 and say here are the great noble themes 723 00:31:37,282 --> 00:31:39,285 that you've actually been looking at. 724 00:31:39,384 --> 00:31:42,021 - To me, Alan Moore's "Watchmen" is up there 725 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,323 with any other work of literature. 726 00:31:44,422 --> 00:31:48,294 Like, I love it. I've read it 100 times. 727 00:31:48,392 --> 00:31:50,729 The deconstruction of the superhero 728 00:31:50,828 --> 00:31:52,664 is something that was very influenced 729 00:31:52,764 --> 00:31:54,300 by what he did. 730 00:31:55,699 --> 00:31:59,438 - In 2005, Time Magazine ranked "Watchmen" 731 00:31:59,537 --> 00:32:02,574 one of the best 100 novels of the 20th century. 732 00:32:02,673 --> 00:32:05,711 It has never been out of print. 733 00:32:05,809 --> 00:32:09,648 Moore's book would ignite a literary explosion at DC 734 00:32:09,747 --> 00:32:12,851 under the leadership of Karen Berger. 735 00:32:12,950 --> 00:32:17,423 - I was sort of carving a path a little bit under the radar. 736 00:32:17,522 --> 00:32:20,326 I had started scouting out writers 737 00:32:20,425 --> 00:32:22,261 in England, particularly. 738 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,862 - The British comic industry was a step ahead 739 00:32:23,962 --> 00:32:24,992 of us in mature comics. 740 00:32:25,096 --> 00:32:26,698 Karen saw that and was like, 741 00:32:26,797 --> 00:32:28,600 "Why don't we just turn that into an entire brand?" 742 00:32:28,699 --> 00:32:30,602 And so it was a British invasion. 743 00:32:30,701 --> 00:32:33,705 She brought in that generation of British writers, 744 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,003 and they created adult comics. 745 00:32:36,107 --> 00:32:38,044 - By the time DC started looking, 746 00:32:38,137 --> 00:32:39,445 there was a whole generation of us 747 00:32:39,544 --> 00:32:41,213 who were just ready to go 748 00:32:41,312 --> 00:32:43,449 and had been reading comics all our lives. 749 00:32:43,547 --> 00:32:45,784 To have the hand of Superman reach down from the clouds 750 00:32:45,883 --> 00:32:48,454 and to know that DC Comics was on the phone, 751 00:32:48,553 --> 00:32:50,622 it just felt like winning a billion dollars. 752 00:32:50,721 --> 00:32:52,791 - One of the writers Berger met 753 00:32:52,891 --> 00:32:54,560 in her search for new talent 754 00:32:54,658 --> 00:32:58,530 was a persistent young man by the name of Neil Gaiman. 755 00:32:58,629 --> 00:33:01,700 Gaiman pitched a story based on an obscure character 756 00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:05,237 from the company's archives, the Sandman, 757 00:33:05,336 --> 00:33:08,640 ruler of the realm of dreams. 758 00:33:08,739 --> 00:33:10,609 - OK, you've got this character 759 00:33:10,707 --> 00:33:12,711 who was gonna be Lord of Dreams. 760 00:33:12,810 --> 00:33:14,480 Then why haven't we ever seen him 761 00:33:14,578 --> 00:33:16,248 all through the DC Universe? 762 00:33:16,347 --> 00:33:17,883 Because at that point, everything you were doing 763 00:33:17,983 --> 00:33:19,351 was in the DC universe. 764 00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:20,987 So I thought, "Well, we'd never seen him." 765 00:33:21,084 --> 00:33:24,490 I thought, "Well, maybe he's been locked up somewhere." 766 00:33:24,589 --> 00:33:28,227 And suddenly I had the shape of a beginning of something. 767 00:33:28,326 --> 00:33:30,129 I had the idea of this sort of naked man 768 00:33:30,228 --> 00:33:32,698 in a glass box just prepared to wait 769 00:33:32,796 --> 00:33:35,267 until all the people who kept him prisoner 770 00:33:35,366 --> 00:33:37,869 were long dead and forgotten. 771 00:33:37,969 --> 00:33:40,739 ♪ ♪ 772 00:33:40,837 --> 00:33:43,809 And of course, I started "Sandman" in a state 773 00:33:43,908 --> 00:33:46,545 of absolute delirious terror 774 00:33:46,644 --> 00:33:51,650 because I'd never had to do was write one story a month. 775 00:33:51,749 --> 00:33:54,053 The reason why the first storyline, 776 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:56,956 "Preludes and Nocturnes," was eight issues long 777 00:33:57,054 --> 00:34:00,960 was I was convinced I would get the phone call from Karen 778 00:34:01,058 --> 00:34:02,528 saying, you know, "It's really not selling, 779 00:34:02,626 --> 00:34:04,496 we're gonna stop it at number 12." 780 00:34:04,595 --> 00:34:06,598 Only when we got to number eight, 781 00:34:06,697 --> 00:34:09,335 we were selling more than anything comparable 782 00:34:09,434 --> 00:34:12,471 had ever sold, and suddenly, I thought, 783 00:34:12,570 --> 00:34:16,142 "OK, I can actually let myself now believe, 784 00:34:16,241 --> 00:34:19,211 "Let myself dream that I'm gonna 785 00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:21,613 get to the end of the story." 786 00:34:21,712 --> 00:34:25,584 - Finally free, the Sandman takes revenge on his captors 787 00:34:25,683 --> 00:34:30,022 and discovers he must answer for his own sins too. 788 00:34:30,116 --> 00:34:31,723 - There was nothing like "Sandman" 789 00:34:31,823 --> 00:34:33,120 when "Sandman" came out. 790 00:34:33,224 --> 00:34:37,329 It was emotional, but fantastic. 791 00:34:37,428 --> 00:34:39,398 Cerebral, but dark. 792 00:34:39,497 --> 00:34:41,400 It drew female readers 793 00:34:41,499 --> 00:34:43,869 who didn't realize that there were comics 794 00:34:43,968 --> 00:34:45,704 that they would enjoy. 795 00:34:45,802 --> 00:34:47,506 - Neal was playing against type 796 00:34:47,604 --> 00:34:49,041 for a character named Death 797 00:34:49,139 --> 00:34:51,377 and making her a young, attractive woman, 798 00:34:51,475 --> 00:34:55,181 a Goth, which was also very much in sync 799 00:34:55,279 --> 00:34:57,283 with the times. 800 00:34:57,381 --> 00:34:58,584 - When you were in high school, 801 00:34:58,683 --> 00:35:00,119 you could give a copy of "Sandman" 802 00:35:00,218 --> 00:35:01,353 and look cool still, you know? 803 00:35:01,452 --> 00:35:02,854 You could still wear your jacket 804 00:35:02,953 --> 00:35:04,623 and smoke your cigarettes and read "Sandman." 805 00:35:04,721 --> 00:35:06,993 Like, that was legitimate. Comics were cool again. 806 00:35:07,090 --> 00:35:09,228 They were rebellious. They were dangerous. 807 00:35:09,327 --> 00:35:10,929 They weren't childlike. 808 00:35:11,028 --> 00:35:13,565 They were a sign that you were on the edge of art, 809 00:35:13,664 --> 00:35:17,336 rather than in the middle of it. 810 00:35:17,435 --> 00:35:19,538 - The series ran for 75 issues 811 00:35:19,637 --> 00:35:22,308 and sold over 7 million copies, 812 00:35:22,406 --> 00:35:24,410 but it was only one of a growing list 813 00:35:24,509 --> 00:35:26,545 of titles edited by Karen Berger 814 00:35:26,644 --> 00:35:30,549 that veered further off page of traditional comics. 815 00:35:30,648 --> 00:35:34,653 - My goal was to really do stories 816 00:35:34,751 --> 00:35:39,225 that just kind of shook things up, 817 00:35:39,323 --> 00:35:41,927 that broke with the status quo, 818 00:35:42,026 --> 00:35:45,131 that challenged people's perceptions 819 00:35:45,229 --> 00:35:48,500 of what a comic story could be. 820 00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:50,702 - One of the things that Karen brought to comics 821 00:35:50,801 --> 00:35:53,739 was the fact that she wasn't a hardcore comic book fan. 822 00:35:53,837 --> 00:35:57,409 She had her unique perspective on story 823 00:35:57,508 --> 00:36:00,412 that wasn't bound by anybody's tradition. 824 00:36:00,511 --> 00:36:02,949 - And Jenette was a real role model for me. 825 00:36:03,047 --> 00:36:05,651 She set the tone and set the stage 826 00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:09,688 and was fearless and brave, in terms of the risk taking. 827 00:36:09,787 --> 00:36:13,492 - And it was at that moment I said, "You should really 828 00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:15,827 be editor of your own line." 829 00:36:15,926 --> 00:36:18,430 - And I'm like, in a heartbeat, I said yes. 830 00:36:18,529 --> 00:36:20,967 - And that's when Vertigo was born. 831 00:36:21,065 --> 00:36:22,834 [dramatic music] 832 00:36:22,933 --> 00:36:27,939 - I liked the feeling that you get from that word. 833 00:36:28,039 --> 00:36:29,942 You're uncomfortable. 834 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,511 It's associated with fear of heights. 835 00:36:32,610 --> 00:36:34,981 And the whole thing about Vertigo 836 00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:39,151 is overcoming those fears, going into those dark places, 837 00:36:39,250 --> 00:36:42,754 and taking chances and taking creative risks. 838 00:36:42,853 --> 00:36:46,125 - There was a feeling in the air 839 00:36:46,224 --> 00:36:48,127 that it was a special place 840 00:36:48,226 --> 00:36:50,529 where you got to stretch yourself creatively 841 00:36:50,628 --> 00:36:52,999 and push boundaries. 842 00:36:53,098 --> 00:36:55,434 - It was a great way of working. 843 00:36:55,533 --> 00:36:57,569 I think just giving people the opportunity 844 00:36:57,669 --> 00:36:59,405 to tell that one story. 845 00:36:59,504 --> 00:37:01,007 What is the thing you've always--what's the thing 846 00:37:01,106 --> 00:37:02,708 that's most expressive of you? 847 00:37:02,807 --> 00:37:05,945 - "The Invisibles" changed history in comics. 848 00:37:06,043 --> 00:37:08,847 I mean, it created the first drag queen superhero. 849 00:37:08,947 --> 00:37:10,549 To have this sort of character, 850 00:37:10,648 --> 00:37:14,320 this kind of visibility in the mid '90s, 851 00:37:14,418 --> 00:37:17,756 that's really extraordinary. 852 00:37:17,855 --> 00:37:19,725 - I think if there's any thread 853 00:37:19,824 --> 00:37:22,428 that fits through what a Vertigo title is, 854 00:37:22,526 --> 00:37:24,930 what a Vertigo comic is, 855 00:37:25,029 --> 00:37:28,700 they all deal with... 856 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,037 humanity 857 00:37:31,135 --> 00:37:33,439 in all its facets. 858 00:37:33,537 --> 00:37:36,242 And genre is really used as a backdrop 859 00:37:36,341 --> 00:37:39,811 to tell stories about the uncomfortable side 860 00:37:39,910 --> 00:37:43,682 of life, disturbing parts of life, 861 00:37:43,782 --> 00:37:47,419 about people on the fringes. 862 00:37:47,518 --> 00:37:51,590 You know, stories about all of us. 863 00:37:51,689 --> 00:37:53,692 - You really have to hand it to Karen. 864 00:37:53,790 --> 00:37:56,662 It's her editorial vision for comics 865 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,100 to be taken as seriously as a storytelling medium 866 00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:03,235 as any other. 867 00:38:03,334 --> 00:38:07,139 That comics can do anything and have to be allowed 868 00:38:07,238 --> 00:38:09,908 to do anything, to go into whatever territory 869 00:38:10,007 --> 00:38:13,112 any writer or artist deems appropriate. 870 00:38:13,211 --> 00:38:15,647 - Vertigo's boundary-breaking stories 871 00:38:15,746 --> 00:38:18,850 claim new cultural cachet and market potential 872 00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:21,853 and needed a format to match. 873 00:38:21,953 --> 00:38:23,722 - We said to each other, "Why should we 874 00:38:23,821 --> 00:38:26,792 "just let a comic book come out and then disappear? 875 00:38:26,890 --> 00:38:28,894 "How can comic books stay on a shelf? 876 00:38:28,992 --> 00:38:31,330 How can comic books actually even go on a shelf?" 877 00:38:31,428 --> 00:38:33,865 - To get comics into bookstores, 878 00:38:33,964 --> 00:38:36,535 the company seized on a brand new genre-- 879 00:38:36,634 --> 00:38:38,070 the graphic novel. 880 00:38:38,168 --> 00:38:41,107 With longer stories published in one volume, 881 00:38:41,205 --> 00:38:45,244 it was a move that would pay dividends for years to come. 882 00:38:45,343 --> 00:38:48,214 - Between the trade paperbacks and the graphic novels, 883 00:38:48,312 --> 00:38:51,517 we turned publishing around to be a profit center. 884 00:38:51,616 --> 00:38:53,953 We made comics permanent. 885 00:38:57,788 --> 00:39:01,060 - By the mid '90s, comic books had grown up, 886 00:39:01,157 --> 00:39:04,964 but comic book movies were stalled in the past. 887 00:39:05,061 --> 00:39:08,000 One young fan made it his personal mission 888 00:39:08,099 --> 00:39:10,136 to change that. 889 00:39:10,235 --> 00:39:14,440 - Now, if I tell you today that as a kid in my 20s, 890 00:39:14,538 --> 00:39:16,742 I waltzed in, and I bought the rights 891 00:39:16,841 --> 00:39:19,178 to Batman from DC Comics, you're gonna go, 892 00:39:19,277 --> 00:39:20,980 "Well, that's impossible." 893 00:39:21,077 --> 00:39:24,883 And they're right. Today, could never happen. 894 00:39:24,982 --> 00:39:29,255 But at that moment in time, nobody else understood 895 00:39:29,353 --> 00:39:31,590 the value of these characters. 896 00:39:31,689 --> 00:39:35,927 - In 1979, Uslan had teamed up with experienced producer 897 00:39:36,026 --> 00:39:38,530 Ben Melniker and bought the film rights 898 00:39:38,629 --> 00:39:41,033 to the caped crusader from DC. 899 00:39:41,131 --> 00:39:44,803 It would take nearly a decade for cameras to roll. 900 00:39:44,901 --> 00:39:48,674 - I was turned down by every single studio in Hollywood. 901 00:39:48,772 --> 00:39:50,109 They said, "You're out of your mind. 902 00:39:50,208 --> 00:39:52,439 "You can't do serious comic book movies. 903 00:39:52,543 --> 00:39:54,713 You can't do dark superheroes." 904 00:39:54,812 --> 00:39:56,548 - But then Frank Miller comes along and does 905 00:39:56,647 --> 00:39:58,217 "The Dark Knight Returns." 906 00:39:58,316 --> 00:40:02,554 And that reset Batman in people's imaginations 907 00:40:02,653 --> 00:40:06,725 from Adam West to the modern, dark, complex 908 00:40:06,824 --> 00:40:09,328 avenger that we know this day. 909 00:40:09,421 --> 00:40:12,531 - The whole key was Tim Burton. 910 00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:15,767 - Director Tim Burton was known for off-kilter hits 911 00:40:15,866 --> 00:40:17,503 like "Pee-wee's Big Adventure," 912 00:40:17,601 --> 00:40:19,238 not action movies, 913 00:40:19,336 --> 00:40:23,042 but his empathetic take on Batman sold Uslan. 914 00:40:23,141 --> 00:40:26,445 - It was Tim who said, "If we're gonna make 915 00:40:26,544 --> 00:40:27,980 "a serious Batman movie, 916 00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:29,648 this movie cannot be about Batman." 917 00:40:29,746 --> 00:40:32,985 This movie must be about Bruce Wayne. 918 00:40:33,084 --> 00:40:35,854 - We were interested in not exploring, 919 00:40:35,953 --> 00:40:39,591 you know, the cliched aspects of a comic book, 920 00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:41,593 but trying to get a little bit more out of it. 921 00:40:41,692 --> 00:40:43,929 What we were interested in doing 922 00:40:44,027 --> 00:40:46,332 was showing a hero who has problems. 923 00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:48,167 It does make it more human. 924 00:40:48,266 --> 00:40:50,002 - But when Burton cast Michael Keaton 925 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:54,740 in the title role, Uslan's confidence wobbled. 926 00:40:54,839 --> 00:40:57,876 - I said "That's great." That's a great joke. 927 00:40:57,975 --> 00:41:00,980 I said I could see the poster now, "Mr. Mom" is "Batman." 928 00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:04,383 There's a dark and serious Batman. 929 00:41:04,481 --> 00:41:07,219 And Tim had the explanation. 930 00:41:07,318 --> 00:41:10,256 I've worked with Michael Keaton on Beetlejuice. 931 00:41:10,354 --> 00:41:13,325 We can create a portrayal of Bruce Wayne 932 00:41:13,424 --> 00:41:16,996 so driven, so obsessed to the point of being psychotic... 933 00:41:17,095 --> 00:41:20,232 - Now what do you think? You think I'm qualified? 934 00:41:20,331 --> 00:41:24,303 - That audiences will go, "Yes, that guy would work. 935 00:41:24,402 --> 00:41:25,571 That guy would do that." 936 00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:28,740 - 67, take one. - Action. 937 00:41:30,575 --> 00:41:33,946 - Burton and his design team conjured a brooding, 938 00:41:34,044 --> 00:41:37,316 broken Gotham, swirling with menace. 939 00:41:37,415 --> 00:41:41,220 - "Batman" '89 was really a master class 940 00:41:41,319 --> 00:41:43,755 from mood to darkness. 941 00:41:43,854 --> 00:41:45,491 The first time you see Batman in that film, 942 00:41:45,590 --> 00:41:47,226 what are you seeing? 943 00:41:47,325 --> 00:41:50,162 You're seeing the silhouette of a bat come down 944 00:41:50,261 --> 00:41:52,331 on two guys that just robbed someone. 945 00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:55,301 And those two should be very, very fearful. 946 00:41:55,399 --> 00:41:59,805 ♪ ♪ 947 00:41:59,904 --> 00:42:03,175 - What are you? - I'm Batman. 948 00:42:03,273 --> 00:42:06,712 - They took Batman to his dark comic book roots. 949 00:42:06,811 --> 00:42:08,981 The story of a very damaged man. 950 00:42:09,079 --> 00:42:10,749 If you're going to dress up as a bat at night 951 00:42:10,842 --> 00:42:13,953 and put fear into the hearts of criminals, 952 00:42:14,050 --> 00:42:18,290 what type of person is that? What makes him be that way? 953 00:42:19,723 --> 00:42:21,327 - Bruce Wayne, his tendency to be 954 00:42:21,425 --> 00:42:22,995 a rather internal guy 955 00:42:23,094 --> 00:42:25,164 who just kind of flips occasionally, 956 00:42:25,262 --> 00:42:27,166 you know, the lid kind of comes off every once in a while. 957 00:42:27,264 --> 00:42:29,535 - Now you want to get nuts? Come on! 958 00:42:29,634 --> 00:42:30,802 Let's get nuts. 959 00:42:30,901 --> 00:42:32,599 Until he's Batman, in which case, 960 00:42:32,703 --> 00:42:34,573 it weirdly becomes controlled. 961 00:42:34,673 --> 00:42:36,508 - Excuse me. 962 00:42:36,607 --> 00:42:39,845 Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight? 963 00:42:41,244 --> 00:42:44,816 - It was an incredible, incredible moment in time. 964 00:42:44,915 --> 00:42:48,420 For a comic book fan who had grown up ridiculed, 965 00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:51,790 seeing this being elevated 966 00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:55,127 to global blockbuster status. 967 00:42:55,225 --> 00:42:57,796 - The crowd started gathering over the weekend 968 00:42:57,895 --> 00:42:59,465 in anticipation of a movie premiere 969 00:42:59,563 --> 00:43:02,868 so big it had to be held in two theaters. 970 00:43:02,967 --> 00:43:04,971 - And I said, "I think what I've learned here 971 00:43:05,068 --> 00:43:10,009 "is if you don't believe them when they tell you how bad 972 00:43:10,107 --> 00:43:12,411 "you are, just believe in yourself and your work, 973 00:43:12,511 --> 00:43:14,113 you'll do great." 974 00:43:14,211 --> 00:43:16,983 - I think Michael Keaton far surpassed what you expect. 975 00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:18,384 He's gonna be the new Batman, 976 00:43:18,483 --> 00:43:20,252 the new wave Batman of the '90s. 977 00:43:20,351 --> 00:43:23,789 - "Batman" in 1989 is not only just 978 00:43:23,887 --> 00:43:25,824 the most successful movie of that year, 979 00:43:25,923 --> 00:43:28,127 but that bat symbol is everywhere. 980 00:43:28,226 --> 00:43:31,063 You can't buy blank T-shirts to print on 981 00:43:31,161 --> 00:43:33,465 because every black blank T-shirt has already 982 00:43:33,564 --> 00:43:35,167 been committed somewhere. 983 00:43:35,265 --> 00:43:38,370 - Fans of Philadelphia can line up for Batman dos. 984 00:43:38,469 --> 00:43:40,939 - A whole catalog of Batman memorabilia. 985 00:43:41,038 --> 00:43:44,143 In fact, there is even a 1-800-BATMAN number in here 986 00:43:44,241 --> 00:43:46,345 to get your merchandise to you faster. 987 00:43:46,444 --> 00:43:48,347 - The adventures of the caped crusader 988 00:43:48,445 --> 00:43:51,850 are fueling a $400 million industry that's growing 989 00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:53,819 by 25% each year. 990 00:43:53,918 --> 00:43:55,721 [electronic music] 991 00:43:55,820 --> 00:43:59,191 - Bat mania catapulted comics into the new decade, 992 00:43:59,290 --> 00:44:02,561 where it found a whole new kind of fan. 993 00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:06,198 - '90s was a very bloated time in comic book history, 994 00:44:06,297 --> 00:44:09,168 a period of interest solely from collectors. 995 00:44:09,266 --> 00:44:11,303 And how much is this comic book going to be worth? 996 00:44:11,402 --> 00:44:13,439 Do you have the issue with the special bag 997 00:44:13,538 --> 00:44:15,441 and the card inside? 998 00:44:15,540 --> 00:44:18,377 - And at the 27th annual international comic convention 999 00:44:18,476 --> 00:44:23,349 in San Diego, a comic book sold for $180,000. 1000 00:44:23,448 --> 00:44:25,817 - It doesn't really matter about the comic. 1001 00:44:25,916 --> 00:44:27,987 It matters of how much money it costs 1002 00:44:28,086 --> 00:44:30,089 and how much money it's worth. 1003 00:44:30,187 --> 00:44:33,492 - They buy them for investment. The fun is out of it. 1004 00:44:33,591 --> 00:44:35,094 - Feeding the frenzy, 1005 00:44:35,192 --> 00:44:37,163 publishers hype their top artists 1006 00:44:37,261 --> 00:44:39,198 and pumped out collectible one-offs. 1007 00:44:39,297 --> 00:44:42,201 - Oh, I have such a soft spot for '90s comics. 1008 00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:44,336 It seemed really exciting at the time 1009 00:44:44,435 --> 00:44:47,006 because the artists seemed to be the rock star. 1010 00:44:47,104 --> 00:44:48,140 A lot of them, I never even read, 1011 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,009 I just pored over the artwork. 1012 00:44:50,101 --> 00:44:53,112 - Jim Lee was one of Marvel's superstar artists. 1013 00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:56,882 His "X-Men" number one sold 8 million copies, 1014 00:44:56,982 --> 00:44:58,517 a Guinness World Record. 1015 00:44:58,616 --> 00:45:01,187 - Because the artists were so hot, some of the artists 1016 00:45:01,286 --> 00:45:02,854 felt like we don't need writers. 1017 00:45:02,953 --> 00:45:05,157 Why are we sharing our profits with writers 1018 00:45:05,255 --> 00:45:08,594 when we could come up with these same kind of stories? 1019 00:45:08,692 --> 00:45:12,664 - Early in 1992, Lee and Marvel's other top artists 1020 00:45:12,763 --> 00:45:17,203 quit and joined forces to form Image Comics. 1021 00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:20,506 - We were six, seven artists, depending on which version 1022 00:45:20,605 --> 00:45:23,976 you go with, a bunch of headstrong kids, 1023 00:45:24,075 --> 00:45:26,445 really, in our mid-twenties. 1024 00:45:26,544 --> 00:45:28,214 And we were just going around telling these corporations, 1025 00:45:28,312 --> 00:45:30,249 "Screw you guys, we're not going to work for you." 1026 00:45:30,348 --> 00:45:32,384 - In its first four months of operation, 1027 00:45:32,483 --> 00:45:35,821 the upstart company pushed DC into third place 1028 00:45:35,921 --> 00:45:37,990 for the first time. 1029 00:45:38,089 --> 00:45:40,026 With its reputation on the line, 1030 00:45:40,125 --> 00:45:42,294 America's oldest comics outfit needed 1031 00:45:42,393 --> 00:45:44,791 to grab back the spotlight. 1032 00:45:44,895 --> 00:45:47,967 - We had an emergency meeting where we got everybody in. 1033 00:45:48,066 --> 00:45:50,036 All the writers, all the artists 1034 00:45:50,134 --> 00:45:52,538 on four titles of Superman, 1035 00:45:52,636 --> 00:45:54,906 all working towards a common goal. 1036 00:45:55,006 --> 00:45:57,009 It's not about you. 1037 00:45:57,107 --> 00:45:58,910 It's about Superman and what we think 1038 00:45:59,010 --> 00:46:00,679 is best for Superman. 1039 00:46:00,777 --> 00:46:04,050 Every meeting that we ever had when we would get stuck, 1040 00:46:04,148 --> 00:46:08,554 Jerry Ordway would holler out, "Let's just kill him." 1041 00:46:08,652 --> 00:46:11,023 Well, he said it that day. 1042 00:46:11,122 --> 00:46:15,927 And I said, "OK, wise guys, if we kill him, 1043 00:46:16,027 --> 00:46:17,729 what happens then?" 1044 00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:20,732 [ominous music] 1045 00:46:20,832 --> 00:46:25,371 ♪ ♪ 1046 00:46:25,470 --> 00:46:29,175 - Teasers began to appear across all the Superman titles 1047 00:46:29,273 --> 00:46:31,177 in the summer of 1992. 1048 00:46:31,275 --> 00:46:34,913 Someone or something was coming 1049 00:46:35,013 --> 00:46:36,448 for the Man of Steel. 1050 00:46:36,547 --> 00:46:38,350 - Has the Man of Steel met his match? 1051 00:46:38,449 --> 00:46:42,321 An editor at DC Comics says Superman will die November 18. 1052 00:46:42,420 --> 00:46:44,656 Mike Carlin says the November comic book will show 1053 00:46:44,755 --> 00:46:46,993 the demise of the costumed crime fighter 1054 00:46:47,091 --> 00:46:49,228 during a fight to save Metropolis. 1055 00:46:49,327 --> 00:46:51,763 - Oh, good. I'm an anti-Superman fan. 1056 00:46:51,863 --> 00:46:53,365 I don't like him. 1057 00:46:53,464 --> 00:46:55,267 He's like a boy scout compared to other superheroes. 1058 00:46:55,366 --> 00:46:57,736 - This from a guy who wears a tattoo 1059 00:46:57,836 --> 00:46:59,471 of a bad guy, the Joker. 1060 00:46:59,565 --> 00:47:01,040 Teenagers these days 1061 00:47:01,139 --> 00:47:03,209 prefer more violent characters, 1062 00:47:03,308 --> 00:47:04,810 ones like the Punisher, 1063 00:47:04,909 --> 00:47:07,246 Wolverine, the Infinity War. 1064 00:47:07,345 --> 00:47:10,916 - With everybody out there being antiheroes, 1065 00:47:11,015 --> 00:47:13,719 and Superman being the boy scout 1066 00:47:13,818 --> 00:47:14,881 and the cornball, 1067 00:47:14,986 --> 00:47:16,355 we basically said, 1068 00:47:16,453 --> 00:47:19,091 "Let's show the world what it would be like 1069 00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:21,227 if we took him away." 1070 00:47:21,326 --> 00:47:23,195 - Leaving a trail of destruction 1071 00:47:23,294 --> 00:47:25,497 and mangled Justice League characters in its wake, 1072 00:47:25,596 --> 00:47:28,600 Superman's nemesis bore down on Metropolis 1073 00:47:28,700 --> 00:47:30,469 for the final contest. 1074 00:47:30,568 --> 00:47:33,605 - Every week a new Superman comic book hits the stores. 1075 00:47:33,704 --> 00:47:36,808 For the last five weeks, the story of Doomsday 1076 00:47:36,908 --> 00:47:38,144 has been building. 1077 00:47:38,242 --> 00:47:40,112 - By far the bestselling book right now. 1078 00:47:40,211 --> 00:47:41,981 - It sold out in just a couple hours. 1079 00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:46,352 - Newspapers wrote editorials. Fans wrote letters. 1080 00:47:46,450 --> 00:47:48,587 - They were all saying, "How can you kill Superman? 1081 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:49,916 How can you kill Superman?" 1082 00:47:50,021 --> 00:47:51,257 And I said, "When was the last time 1083 00:47:51,356 --> 00:47:52,959 you bought a Superman comic?" 1084 00:47:53,058 --> 00:47:55,327 "Oh, it's been 20, 30 years." 1085 00:47:55,426 --> 00:47:57,629 I said, "You killed Superman." 1086 00:47:57,728 --> 00:48:01,233 If you're not gonna water the flower, it's gonna die. 1087 00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,704 - Well, today is the day that Superman meets 1088 00:48:05,803 --> 00:48:09,641 an unsuper fate, as DC Comics releases 3 million copies 1089 00:48:09,741 --> 00:48:11,343 of the Doomsday issue. 1090 00:48:13,811 --> 00:48:15,247 - It's definitely surprising. 1091 00:48:15,346 --> 00:48:17,616 I would never guess they would kill him. 1092 00:48:17,715 --> 00:48:19,251 - I think it's long overdue, actually. 1093 00:48:19,350 --> 00:48:21,920 Because he's not in touch with the real world. 1094 00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:24,923 [soft dramatic music] 1095 00:48:25,022 --> 00:48:26,892 - I'm gonna cry. 1096 00:48:26,991 --> 00:48:30,262 I'm sad. I don't want the guy to go. 1097 00:48:30,361 --> 00:48:33,332 - The Man of Steel has proven to be as vulnerable 1098 00:48:33,431 --> 00:48:35,301 as the mere mortals who looked up to him 1099 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:36,964 for more than half a century. 1100 00:48:37,068 --> 00:48:39,805 Superman died Wednesday. 1101 00:48:39,903 --> 00:48:44,276 - DC sold over 6 million copies of issue number 75, 1102 00:48:44,375 --> 00:48:47,413 including a poly-wrapped platinum collector's edition 1103 00:48:47,511 --> 00:48:50,249 and several deluxe variants. 1104 00:48:50,348 --> 00:48:52,051 For the next four months, 1105 00:48:52,149 --> 00:48:55,854 all four Superman titles went dark. 1106 00:48:55,954 --> 00:48:57,456 - Not soon after that, they say, 1107 00:48:57,554 --> 00:48:59,125 "Hey, what can we do with Batman? 1108 00:48:59,223 --> 00:49:00,692 "Let's break his back. 1109 00:49:00,791 --> 00:49:03,295 "Let's bring Bane in, soup him up with venom." 1110 00:49:03,394 --> 00:49:06,532 Just kind of like, LeBron James, just boom. 1111 00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:09,568 - As the collector's market boiled hotter, 1112 00:49:09,667 --> 00:49:12,271 DC, Marvel, and Image ramped up the sex 1113 00:49:12,370 --> 00:49:14,406 and violence in a fevered competition 1114 00:49:14,505 --> 00:49:16,375 for eyeballs and dollars. 1115 00:49:16,474 --> 00:49:18,644 - There wasn't a whole lot of good versus evil. 1116 00:49:18,743 --> 00:49:20,846 It was more like every comic was a wrestling match, 1117 00:49:20,944 --> 00:49:23,115 and how can we make each issue more outrageous 1118 00:49:23,214 --> 00:49:25,684 than the previous one? 1119 00:49:25,783 --> 00:49:29,921 This didn't sit great with me, personally, 1120 00:49:30,021 --> 00:49:32,691 nor did it with Alex Ross. 1121 00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:35,494 - Artist Alex Ross and writer Mark Waid 1122 00:49:35,592 --> 00:49:37,863 came to DC with complementary talents 1123 00:49:37,962 --> 00:49:42,534 and a shared belief in what superheroes stood for. 1124 00:49:42,634 --> 00:49:46,638 ♪ ♪ 1125 00:49:46,737 --> 00:49:48,807 - From about the age of four or five 1126 00:49:48,905 --> 00:49:52,911 is when I first became introduced to superheroes. 1127 00:49:53,011 --> 00:49:56,182 I liked the embodiment 1128 00:49:56,281 --> 00:49:58,417 of what Superman was supposed to be-- 1129 00:49:58,516 --> 00:50:01,087 all things good and all things strong 1130 00:50:01,185 --> 00:50:03,889 in equal measure. 1131 00:50:03,988 --> 00:50:05,091 Every other character 1132 00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:06,792 was less powerful than this guy 1133 00:50:06,890 --> 00:50:10,362 who could effectively make his will action. 1134 00:50:10,461 --> 00:50:12,464 - Alex and I were not interested 1135 00:50:12,563 --> 00:50:16,202 in cynical characters and cynical, dark comics. 1136 00:50:16,300 --> 00:50:19,505 I was interested in these characters 1137 00:50:19,605 --> 00:50:20,939 as hopeful. 1138 00:50:21,038 --> 00:50:23,109 I was interested in these characters as positive. 1139 00:50:23,208 --> 00:50:24,743 I was interested in these characters 1140 00:50:24,842 --> 00:50:26,645 as something you could look up to. 1141 00:50:26,744 --> 00:50:29,748 And let's take a new look and a fresh look 1142 00:50:29,847 --> 00:50:32,618 at what these characters bring to the table. 1143 00:50:34,781 --> 00:50:37,623 [dramatic music] 1144 00:50:37,721 --> 00:50:40,592 - In the summer of 1996, Ross and Wade 1145 00:50:40,691 --> 00:50:43,662 released the first issue of "Kingdom Come," 1146 00:50:43,761 --> 00:50:45,497 a resetting of the Superman myth 1147 00:50:45,596 --> 00:50:48,034 in which the Man of Steel never died, 1148 00:50:48,132 --> 00:50:49,935 but went into voluntary exile, 1149 00:50:50,034 --> 00:50:52,571 leaving America in the care of a younger, 1150 00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:55,674 more violent breed of superhero. 1151 00:50:55,772 --> 00:50:57,876 When their infighting brings chaos, 1152 00:50:57,975 --> 00:51:01,680 Superman must return to restore order. 1153 00:51:03,414 --> 00:51:05,017 - And at that moment, 1154 00:51:05,116 --> 00:51:06,885 all the comic industry collapsed. 1155 00:51:06,984 --> 00:51:09,221 I got a note saying every single contact 1156 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:10,856 I have at Marvel is fired. 1157 00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:12,491 Marvel has declared bankruptcy. 1158 00:51:12,590 --> 00:51:15,794 - People realized they couldn't keep flipping these books 1159 00:51:15,893 --> 00:51:17,263 to nonexistent customers, 1160 00:51:17,361 --> 00:51:19,331 and the industry really collapsed, 1161 00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:22,601 and a lot of smaller companies went away. 1162 00:51:24,268 --> 00:51:27,306 - When the bottom dropped out of the collector's market, 1163 00:51:27,405 --> 00:51:28,707 Vertigo was still standing 1164 00:51:28,806 --> 00:51:30,509 because people were not collecting them. 1165 00:51:30,607 --> 00:51:32,411 They were actually reading them. 1166 00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:34,246 - With the industry reeling, 1167 00:51:34,344 --> 00:51:38,350 Ross and Wade worked to finish a tale that drew inspiration 1168 00:51:38,449 --> 00:51:39,952 from their own lives. 1169 00:51:40,050 --> 00:51:42,054 - Honestly, the first intent of "Kingdom Come" 1170 00:51:42,148 --> 00:51:45,524 is I wanted to paint a comic series 1171 00:51:45,622 --> 00:51:48,760 with the DC characters hanging out with my father. 1172 00:51:48,859 --> 00:51:52,098 - Norman McCay, who is the narrator of our story, 1173 00:51:52,195 --> 00:51:55,567 that's Alex's dad. - My father was a minister. 1174 00:51:55,666 --> 00:51:58,037 And there's kind of a humanitarian aspect 1175 00:51:58,134 --> 00:52:01,807 to that job that I wanted to incorporate. 1176 00:52:01,906 --> 00:52:03,909 - Ross's father serves as a stand-in 1177 00:52:04,007 --> 00:52:06,845 for ordinary people and a moral compass 1178 00:52:06,945 --> 00:52:08,547 to the superhumans. 1179 00:52:08,645 --> 00:52:10,349 When Superman's plan to contain 1180 00:52:10,448 --> 00:52:12,618 the rogue superheroes fails, 1181 00:52:12,717 --> 00:52:15,354 the US Army launches a nuclear strike 1182 00:52:15,452 --> 00:52:17,957 to eliminate them. 1183 00:52:18,055 --> 00:52:20,960 [explosion] 1184 00:52:21,059 --> 00:52:27,466 ♪ ♪ 1185 00:52:27,564 --> 00:52:30,102 Furious, Superman retaliates. 1186 00:52:30,201 --> 00:52:33,472 ♪ ♪ 1187 00:52:33,571 --> 00:52:36,775 But McCay stops him with a rebuke. 1188 00:52:36,873 --> 00:52:40,712 Ordinary humans need a say in their own lives 1189 00:52:40,811 --> 00:52:44,383 and will distrust superpower unless it is matched 1190 00:52:44,482 --> 00:52:47,419 with equal restraint and wisdom. 1191 00:52:47,519 --> 00:52:50,990 ♪ ♪ 1192 00:52:51,088 --> 00:52:55,561 McCay's words touch Superman, and he makes a promise. 1193 00:52:55,659 --> 00:52:58,730 "The problems we face still exist. 1194 00:52:58,829 --> 00:53:01,567 "We're not going to solve them for you. 1195 00:53:01,666 --> 00:53:04,536 We're going to solve them with you." 1196 00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:08,107 - That's what makes Superman Superman. 1197 00:53:08,205 --> 00:53:11,077 Superman's greatest superpower is not that he can fly 1198 00:53:11,175 --> 00:53:12,711 or that he can lift a car. 1199 00:53:12,810 --> 00:53:15,948 It's that with the ability to do anything, 1200 00:53:16,047 --> 00:53:19,246 take anything, have anything he wants, 1201 00:53:19,350 --> 00:53:23,455 he's selfless beyond reason. 1202 00:53:23,549 --> 00:53:26,025 He will never ever put himself and his needs 1203 00:53:26,123 --> 00:53:28,894 and his wants before anyone else's. 1204 00:53:28,993 --> 00:53:30,596 ♪ ♪ 1205 00:53:30,695 --> 00:53:33,299 That is an amazing superpower. 1206 00:53:35,866 --> 00:53:37,536 - Through all the flaws of human beings, 1207 00:53:37,635 --> 00:53:39,238 we've actually created characters 1208 00:53:39,337 --> 00:53:40,973 who are without flaws. 1209 00:53:41,072 --> 00:53:42,774 It kind of makes humans better than God. 1210 00:53:42,873 --> 00:53:45,411 God could only make a fallen humanity. 1211 00:53:45,509 --> 00:53:48,547 We made beings better than us. 1212 00:53:48,647 --> 00:53:49,881 That's kind of cool. 1213 00:53:49,981 --> 00:53:51,783 That shows an imaginative facility 1214 00:53:51,882 --> 00:53:54,253 that we should be relying on a little bit more 1215 00:53:54,352 --> 00:53:55,988 and trying to be more like that. 1216 00:53:56,087 --> 00:53:58,224 We have the capacity. We built Superman. 1217 00:53:58,322 --> 00:53:59,891 We made Superman. 1218 00:53:59,990 --> 00:54:01,860 Superman can solve any problem, however, we apply that. 1219 00:54:01,958 --> 00:54:04,630 - As the comics business struggled 1220 00:54:04,728 --> 00:54:06,898 to rise from the ashes again, 1221 00:54:06,997 --> 00:54:11,603 salvation would come from a chorus of unheard voices. 1222 00:54:11,702 --> 00:54:13,300 - When the characters have been around 1223 00:54:13,404 --> 00:54:14,974 for 80-some-odd years, 1224 00:54:15,073 --> 00:54:16,508 you can go two ways. 1225 00:54:16,607 --> 00:54:18,844 One is to be very traditional in your approach 1226 00:54:18,943 --> 00:54:21,213 or you could chart a different path, 1227 00:54:21,312 --> 00:54:23,515 which is to really try 1228 00:54:23,614 --> 00:54:26,718 to revolutionize the universe. 1229 00:54:26,817 --> 00:54:29,588 To change things, bring in different voices 1230 00:54:29,686 --> 00:54:32,091 behind the scenes to create stories, 1231 00:54:32,189 --> 00:54:34,560 you have to constantly pump new life into these characters. 1232 00:54:34,658 --> 00:54:36,862 Because like I keep saying, it ain't the characters, 1233 00:54:36,962 --> 00:54:38,630 it's the creators. 1234 00:54:38,729 --> 00:54:41,300 - So we can reflect back on those early stories 1235 00:54:41,399 --> 00:54:45,071 and breathe a different kind of life into them. 1236 00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:47,306 And because of that, it gives me hope. 1237 00:54:47,399 --> 00:54:50,209 It gives me hope that the story can change. 1238 00:54:50,308 --> 00:54:52,945 - Comic books are the dreams and aspirations 1239 00:54:53,044 --> 00:54:54,680 of human beings. 1240 00:54:54,778 --> 00:54:57,416 That's why we love comic books. 1241 00:54:57,515 --> 00:55:00,319 We think maybe if the conditions 1242 00:55:00,418 --> 00:55:02,721 present themselves, 1243 00:55:02,820 --> 00:55:05,924 we will be the hero of the moment.