1 00:00:02,043 --> 00:00:06,643 This programme contains very strong language, scenes of a sexual nature and graphic accounts of sexual abuse 2 00:00:06,643 --> 00:00:09,043 So we are going to film the consent talk. All right? Yeah. 3 00:00:09,043 --> 00:00:10,563 Do you feel OK with spanking? Mm-hm. 4 00:00:10,563 --> 00:00:13,483 OK, so we'll try to stick with some, like, medium spanking, if that's OK? 5 00:00:13,483 --> 00:00:15,443 Head to toe, do you mind your hair being touched? 6 00:00:15,443 --> 00:00:18,003 That's totally fine. Totally OK? I'm cool with that, yeah. 7 00:00:18,003 --> 00:00:20,803 Totally OK, great. Chest, back, arms, do you mind being touched? 8 00:00:20,803 --> 00:00:22,923 That's totally cool. Cool with me. OK, great. 9 00:00:22,923 --> 00:00:25,003 I'm going to keep the same safe words, 10 00:00:25,003 --> 00:00:28,323 I'm going to use "mercy" or "yellow" and "red" or "stop" and "cut," 11 00:00:28,323 --> 00:00:30,203 look into the camera if I need to. 12 00:00:30,203 --> 00:00:31,523 OK, we got it. 13 00:00:31,523 --> 00:00:34,243 THEY LAUGH 14 00:00:34,243 --> 00:00:38,723 In Los Angeles, I was traversing a battleground over consent. 15 00:00:38,723 --> 00:00:39,763 WOMEN GIGGLING 16 00:00:39,763 --> 00:00:42,563 One of the criticisms that's been made of you 17 00:00:42,563 --> 00:00:44,763 is that you can be pushy. 18 00:00:44,763 --> 00:00:47,683 Who...say...that? 19 00:00:47,683 --> 00:00:51,363 The vast and lucrative industry of adult film has been 20 00:00:51,363 --> 00:00:53,443 transformed by social media, 21 00:00:53,443 --> 00:00:58,243 with a new generation of performers making fortunes on their own online, 22 00:00:58,243 --> 00:01:03,363 and using their new power to call out alleged predatory behaviour... 23 00:01:03,363 --> 00:01:05,963 I called him, he said everything was fine, you know? 24 00:01:05,963 --> 00:01:08,283 "I'm Ron Jeremy. You're safe with me." 25 00:01:08,283 --> 00:01:11,163 ..while an old guard is pushing back at what they see 26 00:01:11,163 --> 00:01:12,723 as trial by Twitter. 27 00:01:12,723 --> 00:01:16,883 The women have come up with a narrative and script 28 00:01:16,883 --> 00:01:19,963 that is unbelievably similar. 29 00:01:19,963 --> 00:01:23,843 I was attempting to figure out what good practice looks like... 30 00:01:23,843 --> 00:01:26,683 Are you...flirting with me? 31 00:01:26,683 --> 00:01:30,123 I'm your stepsister, that's wrong. 32 00:01:30,123 --> 00:01:35,243 ..in a world dedicated to pushing boundaries of taste and taboo. 33 00:01:35,243 --> 00:01:37,723 He allegedly raped her, then, like, 34 00:01:37,723 --> 00:01:39,883 signed a napkin or a piece of paper, 35 00:01:39,883 --> 00:01:41,603 and gave it to her as an autograph. 36 00:01:43,003 --> 00:01:50,203 This programme contains very strong language, scenes of sexual violence, and scenes of a sexual nature 37 00:01:59,723 --> 00:02:03,123 In a $4 million castle outside Portland, 38 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:06,643 one of the biggest names in porn was about to do a shoot. 39 00:02:06,643 --> 00:02:07,683 What should I wear? 40 00:02:07,683 --> 00:02:10,523 I think Agent Provocateur is going to be best. 41 00:02:10,523 --> 00:02:13,803 Maybe something red or white would be good. 42 00:02:13,803 --> 00:02:16,523 What about this one? This one's new. 43 00:02:16,523 --> 00:02:18,003 That one works. OK. 44 00:02:18,003 --> 00:02:20,523 A performer with ten years in the business, 45 00:02:20,523 --> 00:02:24,723 these days, Mia Malkova works almost exclusively from home, 46 00:02:24,723 --> 00:02:26,963 shooting with her boyfriend, Justin, 47 00:02:26,963 --> 00:02:29,483 and uploading daily to social media sites. 48 00:02:30,763 --> 00:02:31,963 OK, perfect, right there. 49 00:02:31,963 --> 00:02:35,003 Will you turn your booty towards the light a little bit more? 50 00:02:35,003 --> 00:02:37,763 Right there, freeze, eyes to me. 51 00:02:37,763 --> 00:02:39,403 Right there, perfect. 52 00:02:39,403 --> 00:02:42,483 So, how many subscribers do you have on Instagram? 53 00:02:42,483 --> 00:02:44,763 Erm, 9.4 million. 54 00:02:44,763 --> 00:02:47,483 And what about OnlyFans? 55 00:02:47,483 --> 00:02:51,283 Erm, I think I might have 40... 56 00:02:51,283 --> 00:02:52,883 ..40,000 right now? 57 00:02:52,883 --> 00:02:54,803 Which sounds like much less, 58 00:02:54,803 --> 00:02:57,003 but they're all paying is the big difference, right? 59 00:02:57,003 --> 00:02:59,483 That is the big difference. Yes. 60 00:02:59,483 --> 00:03:00,923 Three, two, one. 61 00:03:03,643 --> 00:03:05,043 OK, sweet. 62 00:03:08,323 --> 00:03:09,843 That's good. Mm-hm. 63 00:03:09,843 --> 00:03:13,563 Would you be comfortable giving me a rough idea of how much you're 64 00:03:13,563 --> 00:03:15,483 making through OnlyFans? 65 00:03:15,483 --> 00:03:17,443 Mm-hm, yeah. Erm... 66 00:03:18,723 --> 00:03:23,123 SHE EXHALES 150 to 250, depending on the month. 67 00:03:23,123 --> 00:03:26,323 150,000 to 250,000? Yeah. 68 00:03:26,323 --> 00:03:27,803 Wow. I love OnlyFans. 69 00:03:27,803 --> 00:03:30,483 I didn't make that while I was shooting for companies. 70 00:03:30,483 --> 00:03:33,163 And I'm in complete control of everything. 71 00:03:33,163 --> 00:03:37,483 I do it from home, I do what I like, how I like. 72 00:03:37,483 --> 00:03:39,923 It's just a better quality of living. 73 00:03:43,643 --> 00:03:45,523 All right, action. 74 00:03:45,523 --> 00:03:48,723 Mia is at the top of a new economy of adult film. 75 00:03:48,723 --> 00:03:50,963 Walk forward, towards the chair. 76 00:03:50,963 --> 00:03:54,123 One of the most successful of thousands of young performers 77 00:03:54,123 --> 00:03:57,123 using social media, who have transformed the industry 78 00:03:57,123 --> 00:03:59,083 almost beyond recognition. 79 00:04:00,763 --> 00:04:03,323 That's exactly what I want, right there, perfect. 80 00:04:04,723 --> 00:04:07,003 Able to make money on their own terms, 81 00:04:07,003 --> 00:04:10,683 many have used their new power to police the industry and establish 82 00:04:10,683 --> 00:04:13,443 better standards for how sex takes place. 83 00:04:15,523 --> 00:04:17,203 In Pasadena, north of Los Angeles, 84 00:04:17,203 --> 00:04:20,283 I had an appointment with a couple who work in porn. 85 00:04:20,283 --> 00:04:22,123 Can we come in? 86 00:04:22,123 --> 00:04:24,723 Named Michael Vegas and Siouxsie Q, 87 00:04:24,723 --> 00:04:27,403 they are two of the new generation of porn activists. 88 00:04:27,403 --> 00:04:29,363 Who's that? 89 00:04:29,363 --> 00:04:32,443 They were shooting content for their social media accounts 90 00:04:32,443 --> 00:04:35,323 with their friends Honey Milk and Lola Fae. 91 00:04:37,963 --> 00:04:43,043 Do you want to do some... pulling some things to the side? 92 00:04:43,043 --> 00:04:44,843 Sure, wait, like, my holes? 93 00:04:44,843 --> 00:04:46,563 Yeah, they can't see it, but I can. 94 00:04:48,803 --> 00:04:52,043 "Holes" doesn't sound very romantic, Michael. 95 00:04:52,043 --> 00:04:56,123 Well...it's the romance hole, Louis. 96 00:04:56,123 --> 00:04:59,483 If you put "romance" in front of it, that sounds much better. 97 00:05:00,763 --> 00:05:03,723 Today, for our scene, erm, 98 00:05:03,723 --> 00:05:05,443 we are doing a foursome, 99 00:05:05,443 --> 00:05:08,763 and we are making it fit with all of our social media platforms. 100 00:05:08,763 --> 00:05:11,483 And so there's going to be some pegging, 101 00:05:11,483 --> 00:05:13,963 and there's going to be some... Pegging is? 102 00:05:13,963 --> 00:05:19,683 Pegging is, like, a strapped-on dildo in a harness for penetration. 103 00:05:19,683 --> 00:05:21,763 Someone will be pegging me, hopefully... 104 00:05:21,763 --> 00:05:24,403 At least, probably all of us. ..if all is going according to plan. 105 00:05:24,403 --> 00:05:26,843 Yeah. And you like being pegged, don't you? 106 00:05:26,843 --> 00:05:30,603 Oh, I love it so much. Gosh, you can ask any... 107 00:05:30,603 --> 00:05:33,843 You can ask anybody in the business. He likes it the most. 108 00:05:33,843 --> 00:05:37,683 I love it so much, it just really... 109 00:05:37,683 --> 00:05:40,883 Just hits the right spot, is the best way I can put it. 110 00:05:40,883 --> 00:05:43,243 One, two, three. One, two, three. 111 00:05:43,243 --> 00:05:45,803 What's it like? Is it weirdly empowering, or just, 112 00:05:45,803 --> 00:05:46,843 it is what it is? 113 00:05:46,843 --> 00:05:50,963 It's great to walk into an encounter that, like, 114 00:05:50,963 --> 00:05:54,363 where you know you're not the one being penetrated. 115 00:05:54,363 --> 00:05:56,723 Yeah! Is it? But why would that be great? 116 00:05:56,723 --> 00:05:59,523 I mean, what do you usually do during sex? 117 00:05:59,523 --> 00:06:02,083 Do you penetrate, or are you penetrated? 118 00:06:02,083 --> 00:06:03,923 Most of the time... 119 00:06:03,923 --> 00:06:05,323 HE LAUGHS 120 00:06:05,323 --> 00:06:07,603 Yeah, if I get lucky, I'm the one penetrating. 121 00:06:07,603 --> 00:06:10,163 OK, great, so you can imagine that flipping that and doing 122 00:06:10,163 --> 00:06:12,683 something different would feel different, right? 123 00:06:12,683 --> 00:06:15,083 Would feel very different, for sure. Yeah, that's all. 124 00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:16,443 Is one of these Michael's? 125 00:06:16,443 --> 00:06:17,803 This one. This one. 126 00:06:17,803 --> 00:06:19,643 That's not real size, though. 127 00:06:19,643 --> 00:06:21,603 It's scaled up. Scaled up, yeah. 128 00:06:25,843 --> 00:06:29,683 Loves it. That's my happy place. 129 00:06:29,683 --> 00:06:32,643 SENSUAL MOANING Yes. 130 00:06:32,643 --> 00:06:35,483 I was curious to speak to Michael and Siouxsie about 131 00:06:35,483 --> 00:06:38,123 the changes going on in the industry. 132 00:06:38,123 --> 00:06:40,563 Oh, mercy! Mercy! 133 00:06:41,963 --> 00:06:44,363 With the pegging successfully concluded... 134 00:06:44,363 --> 00:06:45,403 And we're back. 135 00:06:45,403 --> 00:06:48,443 ..and everyone more relaxed, there was a moment to talk. 136 00:06:49,563 --> 00:06:51,843 Wow. How was it? 137 00:06:51,843 --> 00:06:55,083 Outstanding. Great. The scene went very fluid and smooth. 138 00:06:55,083 --> 00:06:59,123 No surprises? Yeah. I feel like it went surprisingly good. 139 00:06:59,123 --> 00:07:02,683 Now, with social media platforms, performers have the ability to 140 00:07:02,683 --> 00:07:04,803 call out bad experiences, right? 141 00:07:04,803 --> 00:07:06,363 Yeah. And go public. 142 00:07:06,363 --> 00:07:09,243 And I just wondered if you had any observations about that? 143 00:07:09,243 --> 00:07:11,403 Historically, as sex workers, 144 00:07:11,403 --> 00:07:16,403 we haven't had any way to report violence or problems against us. 145 00:07:16,403 --> 00:07:18,883 Mm-hm. There's no way to stay safe as a sex worker. 146 00:07:18,883 --> 00:07:23,843 So, yelling out loud in a crowd, which is social media, 147 00:07:23,843 --> 00:07:26,643 is the only means of, like, trying to keep your friends 148 00:07:26,643 --> 00:07:28,763 safe from predators. Yeah. 149 00:07:28,763 --> 00:07:32,723 And a performer who felt violated in some way would be going to 150 00:07:32,723 --> 00:07:34,643 the police and maybe saying, 151 00:07:34,643 --> 00:07:39,003 "I expected to do vaginal, but anal happened." 152 00:07:39,003 --> 00:07:40,083 Right. 153 00:07:40,083 --> 00:07:43,123 Or, "A male hand came from behind the camera and pinched my bum." 154 00:07:43,123 --> 00:07:44,403 And the police might say, 155 00:07:44,403 --> 00:07:47,603 "Well, these are academic distinctions." Exactly. Right? 156 00:07:47,603 --> 00:07:49,043 "What is the big deal?" 157 00:07:49,043 --> 00:07:52,123 I consented to something, and then something else happened 158 00:07:52,123 --> 00:07:53,603 that was without my consent. 159 00:07:53,603 --> 00:07:55,803 I don't know why that's hard to understand. 160 00:07:55,803 --> 00:07:58,243 You know, like, no matter what the situation. 161 00:07:58,243 --> 00:08:01,963 Michael and I met on a hardcore gang bang set. 162 00:08:01,963 --> 00:08:05,443 But, you know, you'll go for a time and then you'll pause. 163 00:08:05,443 --> 00:08:08,003 It's not a faux pas to be, like, "Hey, is your knee OK? 164 00:08:08,003 --> 00:08:10,043 "You want to change positions?" 165 00:08:10,043 --> 00:08:13,603 And so there really is a true conversation that's happening with 166 00:08:13,603 --> 00:08:16,723 your scene partner and, like, that is consent all the way through. 167 00:08:16,723 --> 00:08:19,963 So how would you characterise what's going on right now? 168 00:08:19,963 --> 00:08:21,643 Is this a live issue? 169 00:08:21,643 --> 00:08:25,483 Some of the top, erm, like, names in the industry, 170 00:08:25,483 --> 00:08:28,723 some of the top earners in the industry are in a position 171 00:08:28,723 --> 00:08:33,003 where they will only shoot for the right partner 172 00:08:33,003 --> 00:08:34,403 and the right amount of money, 173 00:08:34,403 --> 00:08:36,843 and the right, sort of, convenience to their day. 174 00:08:36,843 --> 00:08:38,123 You know, it's really... 175 00:08:38,123 --> 00:08:41,203 Why, because they have the leverage now, through their own platforms, 176 00:08:41,203 --> 00:08:44,523 to say no? Exactly. They have the leverage to say no. 177 00:08:44,523 --> 00:08:46,483 Is there a battle within the industry? 178 00:08:46,483 --> 00:08:48,963 Like, how is it taking place? 179 00:08:48,963 --> 00:08:52,483 Some of these old dudes that were here to be creeps 180 00:08:52,483 --> 00:08:54,043 are frustrated and leave. 181 00:08:54,043 --> 00:08:56,083 They can't... "I can't work like this, 182 00:08:56,083 --> 00:08:59,163 "I might hurt somebody's feelings, or I might assault them," like, 183 00:08:59,163 --> 00:09:01,483 yeah, you probably will. You shouldn't be here, go away. 184 00:09:01,483 --> 00:09:03,283 Thanks, bye. It's a reckoning. 185 00:09:03,283 --> 00:09:05,163 Out with the old, in with the new. 186 00:09:05,163 --> 00:09:08,283 There will always be predators in any industry. 187 00:09:08,283 --> 00:09:11,163 But the more that we talk about things, 188 00:09:11,163 --> 00:09:13,203 and the more that we weed them out, 189 00:09:13,203 --> 00:09:15,763 the more scared that they are, honestly. 190 00:09:21,523 --> 00:09:24,963 The shift taking place within porn reflects changes 191 00:09:24,963 --> 00:09:28,443 in the wider culture - with a younger generation pushing 192 00:09:28,443 --> 00:09:31,683 for clearer conversations about consent, 193 00:09:31,683 --> 00:09:35,563 and an old guard standing accused of harbouring predators. 194 00:09:35,563 --> 00:09:37,883 ON COMPUTER: Have you done already some blow job, or...? 195 00:09:37,883 --> 00:09:40,163 Yes, yes, I do, erm, blow jobs all the time. 196 00:09:40,163 --> 00:09:44,163 One of those under suspicion is a 58-year-old director and performer 197 00:09:44,163 --> 00:09:47,403 who goes by the porn name Pierre Woodman. 198 00:09:47,403 --> 00:09:51,523 Have you been tied up? Erm, no, but I've been wanting to. 199 00:09:51,523 --> 00:09:53,883 You would like? Yeah, I would love to be tied up. 200 00:09:53,883 --> 00:09:58,043 Pierre's scenes are known for being on the more extreme end. 201 00:09:58,043 --> 00:10:00,243 On several occasions, he's been accused 202 00:10:00,243 --> 00:10:02,443 of violating performers' boundaries - 203 00:10:02,443 --> 00:10:04,363 accusations he denies. 204 00:10:06,083 --> 00:10:08,763 Though he often works with American talent, 205 00:10:08,763 --> 00:10:13,043 Pierre is based 6,000 miles from LA, in Budapest. 206 00:10:13,043 --> 00:10:15,643 He was shooting at a hotel. 207 00:10:15,643 --> 00:10:17,243 Hello. Hello. 208 00:10:17,243 --> 00:10:20,203 You must be Pierre. Hello. How do you do? Good. 209 00:10:20,203 --> 00:10:22,323 Nice to meet you. What's your name? Alberto. 210 00:10:22,323 --> 00:10:24,963 Alberto, nice to meet you. Louis. 211 00:10:24,963 --> 00:10:27,803 Scheherazade. Nice to meet you. Scheherazade. 212 00:10:27,803 --> 00:10:29,523 Do you speak English? 213 00:10:29,523 --> 00:10:32,243 A little bit. A little bit? A little bit, yeah. 214 00:10:32,243 --> 00:10:35,763 When girls like Scheherazade come from Spain, doesn't speak English, 215 00:10:35,763 --> 00:10:37,083 I come to translate. 216 00:10:37,083 --> 00:10:38,683 So you're the director? Mm-hm. 217 00:10:38,683 --> 00:10:40,643 And you'll be doing the shooting, as well? Yes. 218 00:10:40,643 --> 00:10:42,683 And performing? 219 00:10:42,683 --> 00:10:44,683 Unfortunately, yes. Yeah. HE CHUCKLES 220 00:10:54,683 --> 00:10:56,563 Scheherazade? 221 00:10:56,563 --> 00:10:58,603 Scheherazade? How old are you? 222 00:10:58,603 --> 00:11:01,163 SHE SPEAKS IN PORTUGUESE 25. 223 00:11:02,283 --> 00:11:04,963 And, erm, how many scenes have you done so far? 224 00:11:04,963 --> 00:11:07,123 ALBERTO TRANSLATES Three. 225 00:11:07,123 --> 00:11:08,323 Just three. 226 00:11:16,443 --> 00:11:18,603 Am I right in thinking you videotape everything? 227 00:11:18,603 --> 00:11:22,243 Everything. Even you now. So have you got cameras going? 228 00:11:22,243 --> 00:11:24,523 Yes. Where? Ah... Hidden? 229 00:11:24,523 --> 00:11:27,203 Yeah, of course, since you arrived here, everything is recorded. 230 00:11:27,203 --> 00:11:29,123 Really? That's making you smile. 231 00:11:32,523 --> 00:11:34,643 Sorry. It is the truth. 232 00:11:34,643 --> 00:11:37,363 This thing saved me many, many, many times. 233 00:11:37,363 --> 00:11:40,043 Some girl accused me of some things that I never did, like, 234 00:11:40,043 --> 00:11:43,083 "Oh, I didn't want to do this, I didn't want to do..." 235 00:11:43,083 --> 00:11:47,003 Last time, there was a British girl who said she was, er, 236 00:11:47,003 --> 00:11:49,843 slapped against her will. 237 00:11:49,843 --> 00:11:52,443 Or one girl who said, "Oh, he didn't pay me," 238 00:11:52,443 --> 00:11:54,563 or, "He did something I didn't want to do," 239 00:11:54,563 --> 00:11:56,763 or blah, blah, blah. Come on. 240 00:11:56,763 --> 00:11:58,923 The big problem now is MeToo. 241 00:11:58,923 --> 00:12:01,723 Since there is a scandal with Harvey Weinstein, 242 00:12:01,723 --> 00:12:04,603 the MeToo and all this wave, many girls think, 243 00:12:04,603 --> 00:12:07,403 "Wow, time for me to get money." 244 00:12:07,403 --> 00:12:14,883 What would be the motive for a woman to accuse you of, erm, 245 00:12:14,883 --> 00:12:18,403 deceiving her or doing something against her will? 246 00:12:19,723 --> 00:12:21,083 You ask me this question? 247 00:12:21,083 --> 00:12:23,683 Mm, because they want to be successful performers, right? 248 00:12:23,683 --> 00:12:27,443 And they want to go on and work again, so in a way it's... 249 00:12:27,443 --> 00:12:30,603 There's a risk for them, which is if you make a false claim then... 250 00:12:30,603 --> 00:12:34,283 OK. ..you are going to probably be blacklisted, right? 251 00:12:34,283 --> 00:12:36,643 Most of the time when the girl makes the complaint, 252 00:12:36,643 --> 00:12:39,803 it's already when they have finished with this job. 253 00:12:39,803 --> 00:12:42,963 Some girls who today are 30 years old or 40 years old, 254 00:12:42,963 --> 00:12:44,963 and they work 20 years ago, 255 00:12:44,963 --> 00:12:47,243 those girls, because they have a simple life, 256 00:12:47,243 --> 00:12:49,523 a problem with the boyfriend or whatever, 257 00:12:49,523 --> 00:12:51,443 and they are in need of money, 258 00:12:51,443 --> 00:12:55,683 and they try to use the MeToo as a way to get money from people. 259 00:12:55,683 --> 00:12:57,363 This is one situation. 260 00:12:57,363 --> 00:13:01,843 So, petite lady, my God... has she already tried anal sex? 261 00:13:04,843 --> 00:13:05,963 She's OK to try today? 262 00:13:08,203 --> 00:13:09,923 OK. 263 00:13:09,923 --> 00:13:13,243 It's quite a big step, to do anal for the first time. 264 00:13:18,283 --> 00:13:22,163 This is why, for me, I prefer a girl like her who never tried, 265 00:13:22,163 --> 00:13:25,323 because in her brain she don't have any... No trauma. 266 00:13:25,323 --> 00:13:28,163 ..trauma - she has anxiety, of course, but she don't have 267 00:13:28,163 --> 00:13:30,523 any personal trauma about it, so it's perfect. 268 00:13:30,523 --> 00:13:32,083 For me, this is the best. 269 00:13:32,083 --> 00:13:37,083 Could we say you specialise in performing with young women who are 270 00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:38,603 doing anal for the first time? 271 00:13:38,603 --> 00:13:42,923 Yeah, my specificity - is correct? Sure. 272 00:13:42,923 --> 00:13:46,083 It's to do the anal sex, because I have a secret. 273 00:13:46,083 --> 00:13:51,843 My grandfather teach me one secret for that when I was very young. 274 00:13:51,843 --> 00:13:54,323 Your grandfather taught you? Yes, yes, yes. 275 00:13:54,323 --> 00:13:57,483 And also, because I don't have a penis like this, it helps a lot, 276 00:13:57,483 --> 00:13:59,483 because also the size is important. 277 00:13:59,483 --> 00:14:01,483 You have a relatively small penis? 278 00:14:01,483 --> 00:14:04,003 17 centimetres, I don't know if it's small. 279 00:14:04,003 --> 00:14:06,323 Basically, when I was a young guy, I was thinking, 280 00:14:06,323 --> 00:14:10,843 "Oh, I don't have a huge penis." But today, for me it's an advantage. 281 00:14:10,843 --> 00:14:12,283 All right, Scheherazade, 282 00:14:12,283 --> 00:14:14,843 can you please show me your body, if you don't mind? 283 00:14:14,843 --> 00:14:16,243 ALBERTO TRANSLATES 284 00:14:17,403 --> 00:14:19,523 Go. 285 00:14:19,523 --> 00:14:22,963 Oh, my God, she has nice lingerie. 286 00:14:22,963 --> 00:14:24,003 Look at this. 287 00:14:27,163 --> 00:14:29,843 And, please, if you don't mind, turn around. 288 00:14:29,843 --> 00:14:31,363 She feel good, or she feel bad? 289 00:14:34,843 --> 00:14:36,963 No problem. OK, sit down, please. 290 00:14:40,363 --> 00:14:41,403 Up the legs. 291 00:14:41,403 --> 00:14:43,123 Beautiful, petite pussy. 292 00:14:43,123 --> 00:14:45,763 I love her face so much, she's so beautiful. 293 00:14:47,403 --> 00:14:49,083 OK, vamos. 294 00:14:50,403 --> 00:14:52,203 It's very easy... 295 00:14:53,363 --> 00:14:57,363 It being her first anal scene, Scheherazade was receiving 296 00:14:57,363 --> 00:15:00,683 a higher-than-usual rate of 1,500 euros. 297 00:15:02,683 --> 00:15:06,043 The shoot was happening in a suite three floors down. 298 00:15:06,043 --> 00:15:09,003 Before the action, there would be a quick orientation. 299 00:15:10,963 --> 00:15:13,123 Please, Scheherazade, come with me. 300 00:15:13,123 --> 00:15:14,843 Scene explanation. 301 00:15:39,403 --> 00:15:41,003 She wants to be shocked, or not? 302 00:15:47,643 --> 00:15:49,483 How are you with kissing? 303 00:15:55,563 --> 00:15:58,323 If one girl don't want to kiss you, generally she turns her face. 304 00:15:58,323 --> 00:16:00,763 So it's very easy to know if she wants or she don't want. 305 00:16:00,763 --> 00:16:03,163 Imagine you go somewhere, and you don't want something. 306 00:16:03,163 --> 00:16:04,803 Like, when you go to the restaurant. 307 00:16:04,803 --> 00:16:07,523 Me, I don't want onion in my plate. 308 00:16:07,523 --> 00:16:10,443 The first thing I say to the guy - or when I go to McDonald's - 309 00:16:10,443 --> 00:16:13,043 "I want a hamburger, but no onion." 310 00:16:13,043 --> 00:16:14,443 LOUIS SPEAKS IN PORTUGUESE 311 00:16:14,443 --> 00:16:15,683 SHE LAUGHS 312 00:16:15,683 --> 00:16:17,883 All right, talk to you in a little bit, then. 313 00:16:17,883 --> 00:16:21,243 Thank you so much, guys, see you later. Thank you. Bye. 314 00:16:21,243 --> 00:16:23,883 THEY SPEAK IN FRENCH 315 00:16:30,163 --> 00:16:33,483 Having retired upstairs as the scene took place, 316 00:16:33,483 --> 00:16:37,163 I was mainly conscious of what Scheherazade might be feeling, 317 00:16:37,163 --> 00:16:41,603 having her first-ever anal sex on camera, 318 00:16:41,603 --> 00:16:45,363 with someone whose language she didn't speak... 319 00:16:45,363 --> 00:16:47,363 ..and no-one else around. 320 00:16:48,843 --> 00:16:50,483 KNOCK ON DOOR 321 00:16:50,483 --> 00:16:52,643 Two hours later, they emerged. 322 00:16:54,003 --> 00:16:57,443 Welcome back. Oh, see who opens the door for us! 323 00:16:57,443 --> 00:16:59,163 Hello. Hello. 324 00:16:59,163 --> 00:17:02,443 I didn't expect to see you here again. How are you? 325 00:17:02,443 --> 00:17:04,083 How was it? 326 00:17:04,083 --> 00:17:07,203 Ah, for me, good, but I don't know, you must ask her. 327 00:17:15,723 --> 00:17:17,043 A good experience? 328 00:17:18,483 --> 00:17:20,123 I think she enjoyed it a lot, 329 00:17:20,123 --> 00:17:24,123 but the beginning of the situation was tough for five minutes, 330 00:17:24,123 --> 00:17:26,523 and after, bam, everything goes well. 331 00:17:26,523 --> 00:17:28,203 She had hard times, too. 332 00:17:28,203 --> 00:17:29,923 At the very beginning, hard times? 333 00:17:31,203 --> 00:17:33,283 She thought, "I'm not going to do it. 334 00:17:33,283 --> 00:17:35,243 "I'm not going to be able to do it." Why? 335 00:17:37,443 --> 00:17:39,683 "Because I never did this before." 336 00:17:39,683 --> 00:17:42,163 What was your reason for doing this today? 337 00:17:54,923 --> 00:17:57,563 "I'm in porn. I knew that Pierre would be the right person to 338 00:17:57,563 --> 00:17:59,883 "start with this anal thing in the porn business." 339 00:17:59,883 --> 00:18:05,243 Mm-hm. And your plan is to continue in porn for a number of years? 340 00:18:05,243 --> 00:18:07,803 Yes. For the moment, yes. 341 00:18:07,803 --> 00:18:08,843 Mm-hm. 342 00:18:16,163 --> 00:18:17,643 SHE LAUGHS 343 00:18:19,283 --> 00:18:22,603 You know, you've said that you specialise in having anal sex 344 00:18:22,603 --> 00:18:25,083 with female performers for the first time. 345 00:18:25,083 --> 00:18:27,283 Right, that's something... That's true. 346 00:18:27,283 --> 00:18:31,083 Can you see that, in a way, that's a high-risk project for you? 347 00:18:31,083 --> 00:18:36,083 Because, actually, by definition, they don't necessarily know 348 00:18:36,083 --> 00:18:38,283 what they're getting into, right? 349 00:18:38,283 --> 00:18:41,123 And then also you're very... Sorry, Louis. 350 00:18:41,123 --> 00:18:43,203 If I propose right now to fuck your ass, 351 00:18:43,203 --> 00:18:46,563 you will not know what we speak about? 352 00:18:46,563 --> 00:18:48,523 Come on, are you taking me like a stupid one? 353 00:18:48,523 --> 00:18:51,003 If I say, "Louis, would you like me to fuck your ass now?" 354 00:18:51,003 --> 00:18:54,163 you will say, "I'm sorry, I don't know what you are speaking about." 355 00:18:54,163 --> 00:18:57,083 If you said to me, "I'm going to fuck you in the arse," 356 00:18:57,083 --> 00:18:58,683 and I wouldn't know what that... 357 00:18:58,683 --> 00:19:01,403 But I wouldn't really know what that was like. OK. 358 00:19:01,403 --> 00:19:02,803 I know what the physical act is. 359 00:19:02,803 --> 00:19:06,243 Because you're not gay, you don't know what it is, OK, fine, and then? 360 00:19:06,243 --> 00:19:09,443 And then what? Will you say yes or not? 361 00:19:09,443 --> 00:19:12,203 You know, it's just strange. I'm a 51-year-old man. 362 00:19:12,203 --> 00:19:15,003 You have to decide yourself if you want to say yes or no. 363 00:19:15,003 --> 00:19:17,643 I'm not an 18-year-old, erm, girl. 364 00:19:17,643 --> 00:19:20,643 If I was committed to trying to make it in porn, 365 00:19:20,643 --> 00:19:24,043 but I also hadn't really thought through all the aspects of 366 00:19:24,043 --> 00:19:27,523 what that meant, and I thought I might dip a toe in it, 367 00:19:27,523 --> 00:19:30,483 but I also had come from an upbringing that was maybe 368 00:19:30,483 --> 00:19:33,523 conservative or... I mean, there's so many dimensions to it. 369 00:19:33,523 --> 00:19:36,683 Please. You are 18 years old, you are supposed to be able to know 370 00:19:36,683 --> 00:19:38,963 what you do or what you don't do. 371 00:19:38,963 --> 00:19:42,043 In America, at 16 years old you can drive a car, 372 00:19:42,043 --> 00:19:45,243 you can have a gun at 18. 373 00:19:45,243 --> 00:19:47,923 But you need to be 21 to drink one beer. 374 00:19:47,923 --> 00:19:50,083 It's not me who do the law. 375 00:19:50,083 --> 00:19:51,723 What is wrong if I ask one girl, 376 00:19:51,723 --> 00:19:54,763 "Are you OK to get fucked in the ass by me?" and she said yes? 377 00:19:54,763 --> 00:19:57,163 I am a bad guy because she said yes? 378 00:19:57,163 --> 00:20:00,963 I'm supposed to speak to her in a way that she said yes, 379 00:20:00,963 --> 00:20:05,083 but finally she didn't want really to do it, blah, blah, blah. 380 00:20:05,083 --> 00:20:06,403 It's not my concern. 381 00:20:06,403 --> 00:20:07,923 I'm here to do a job. 382 00:20:15,323 --> 00:20:19,003 With Pierre, I had the sense of someone on the defensive, 383 00:20:19,003 --> 00:20:21,043 who felt himself under siege 384 00:20:21,043 --> 00:20:23,123 in a world where the rules were changing. 385 00:20:27,763 --> 00:20:31,003 I was curious to learn more about how the practices of 386 00:20:31,003 --> 00:20:33,843 the new generation of social media performers 387 00:20:33,843 --> 00:20:37,523 were intersecting with the old ways of the industry. 388 00:20:40,843 --> 00:20:45,443 I had an appointment with a webcam model who goes by Ginger Banks. 389 00:20:45,443 --> 00:20:48,083 Ginger's been camming nearly 12 years. 390 00:20:48,083 --> 00:20:52,003 In her entire career, she's made only a handful of studio films. 391 00:20:52,003 --> 00:20:56,203 She makes her living almost exclusively from OnlyFans. 392 00:20:56,203 --> 00:20:59,323 Hi, Ginger? Hi! Hello. Louis. How do you do? 393 00:20:59,323 --> 00:21:01,483 Good. How are you? Nice to meet you, can we come in? 394 00:21:01,483 --> 00:21:02,603 Yeah, please come in. 395 00:21:04,043 --> 00:21:08,163 The meeting began with some quick content creation. 396 00:21:08,163 --> 00:21:11,323 Oh, this looks cool... the light through it. 397 00:21:19,403 --> 00:21:21,083 SHE SMOOCHES 398 00:21:21,083 --> 00:21:22,963 Tell me about what you do. 399 00:21:22,963 --> 00:21:25,123 OnlyFans is mostly what I do right now. 400 00:21:25,123 --> 00:21:28,323 I use it to show the behind-the-scenes of my life, 401 00:21:28,323 --> 00:21:30,683 naked pictures and videos of myself, 402 00:21:30,683 --> 00:21:35,003 and there's also videos of me having sex that I have, you know, created. 403 00:21:35,003 --> 00:21:37,723 I'll get naked and dance around and play with myself. 404 00:21:40,323 --> 00:21:43,403 That's my daily work. 405 00:21:43,403 --> 00:21:44,763 And it goes up on OnlyFans 406 00:21:44,763 --> 00:21:48,363 and people can take out a subscription to see your content? 407 00:21:48,363 --> 00:21:53,003 Yeah, it's basically whatever you want to put behind this paywall. 408 00:21:53,003 --> 00:21:54,923 You know, you lock it behind this paywall, 409 00:21:54,923 --> 00:21:57,643 and they pay however much you want per month. 410 00:21:57,643 --> 00:21:59,923 It's, like, I think $3 a month, 411 00:21:59,923 --> 00:22:02,603 $3 a month up to $50 a month. 412 00:22:02,603 --> 00:22:05,083 A lot of them just want to see an extra look into your life. 413 00:22:07,363 --> 00:22:09,483 This video is with Chanel Santini. OK. 414 00:22:09,483 --> 00:22:12,523 She's a really popular trans performer. 415 00:22:12,523 --> 00:22:16,083 Oh, my gosh, I was so excited when she asked to come over. 416 00:22:16,083 --> 00:22:17,403 I missed you. 417 00:22:17,403 --> 00:22:19,923 I wanted to have sex with her outside of work, 418 00:22:19,923 --> 00:22:23,363 so why not do it on camera and get paid to do it? 419 00:22:23,363 --> 00:22:27,043 It looks like she might be, um, choking you on her dick. 420 00:22:27,043 --> 00:22:29,083 Erm... 421 00:22:29,083 --> 00:22:31,443 I don't know, maybe for a second or two. 422 00:22:34,763 --> 00:22:36,763 Of her thousands of videos, 423 00:22:36,763 --> 00:22:41,763 probably Ginger's best known is one she posted on Twitter in 2017, 424 00:22:41,763 --> 00:22:45,963 calling out porn's most famous male performer, Ron Jeremy. 425 00:22:45,963 --> 00:22:49,243 So, do you want to talk about how this first came onto your radar? 426 00:22:49,243 --> 00:22:50,723 The whole Ron Jeremy... 427 00:22:50,723 --> 00:22:53,403 It started with a personal encounter with him, didn't it? 428 00:22:53,403 --> 00:22:57,483 I thought that he was just one of the multiple handsy people 429 00:22:57,483 --> 00:22:59,963 at the expo that I ran into. 430 00:22:59,963 --> 00:23:02,003 This was 2016? Yeah. 431 00:23:02,003 --> 00:23:03,443 And what happened? 432 00:23:03,443 --> 00:23:07,083 He grabbed my ass through my jeans as I was walking by 433 00:23:07,083 --> 00:23:08,843 and meeting him for the first time. 434 00:23:08,843 --> 00:23:11,203 And I just said, "Ew," and walked away. 435 00:23:11,203 --> 00:23:12,403 It was the cam models. 436 00:23:12,403 --> 00:23:14,323 The cam models started coming to these expos. 437 00:23:14,323 --> 00:23:16,803 We were the ones that were working from the safety of our homes, 438 00:23:16,803 --> 00:23:19,243 so we weren't on set getting groped by directors - 439 00:23:19,243 --> 00:23:20,843 that shit wasn't normal to us. 440 00:23:20,843 --> 00:23:23,923 It was, like, laughable to me that people could even think 441 00:23:23,923 --> 00:23:26,603 of it as something that you would just excuse - 442 00:23:26,603 --> 00:23:31,123 excuse and then give him access to more people to do it in the future. 443 00:23:31,123 --> 00:23:33,563 So that's when I started compiling the evidence 444 00:23:33,563 --> 00:23:35,083 and made that YouTube video. 445 00:23:35,083 --> 00:23:36,883 There have been allegations of rape 446 00:23:36,883 --> 00:23:39,243 and sexual assault against Ron Jeremy 447 00:23:39,243 --> 00:23:42,483 that go back as far as August 2003. 448 00:23:42,483 --> 00:23:44,643 Here we have Ron Jeremy 449 00:23:44,643 --> 00:23:46,843 grabbing Tonya Tate's ass. 450 00:23:46,843 --> 00:23:51,043 Here we have Ron Jeremy fondling the tit of a random female 451 00:23:51,043 --> 00:23:53,443 out in front of a strip club. 452 00:23:53,443 --> 00:23:56,923 How does Ron Jeremy just being a porn star 453 00:23:56,923 --> 00:23:59,083 give him the right to assault these females, 454 00:23:59,083 --> 00:24:01,363 because the woman happened to be sexual? 455 00:24:01,363 --> 00:24:02,843 Why is that OK? 456 00:24:02,843 --> 00:24:05,403 Are we really still slut-shaming women to the point 457 00:24:05,403 --> 00:24:08,323 where we take away their basic human rights? 458 00:24:09,843 --> 00:24:13,243 At what point did you realise, in addition to the groping, 459 00:24:13,243 --> 00:24:16,763 there were serious allegations of rape? 460 00:24:16,763 --> 00:24:19,363 There was someone who had added allegations of rape 461 00:24:19,363 --> 00:24:20,963 to the Twitter thread. 462 00:24:20,963 --> 00:24:24,563 He allegedly raped her, then, like, signed a napkin 463 00:24:24,563 --> 00:24:26,963 or a piece of paper, and gave it to her as an autograph. 464 00:24:31,763 --> 00:24:35,243 And it's not the only person who's said that about him. 465 00:24:35,243 --> 00:24:36,643 He's, like, a giant monster 466 00:24:36,643 --> 00:24:39,043 just going around, like, sexually assaulting people. 467 00:24:39,043 --> 00:24:43,243 It's classic MeToo in the sense of being initiated on social media, 468 00:24:43,243 --> 00:24:45,563 on Twitter. Yeah. 469 00:24:45,563 --> 00:24:47,523 A kind of community forms, 470 00:24:47,523 --> 00:24:49,243 experiences are shared, 471 00:24:49,243 --> 00:24:51,123 and that leads to real-world change. 472 00:24:51,123 --> 00:24:52,923 Yeah, 100%. 473 00:24:52,923 --> 00:24:55,723 So it was like a domino effect of, like, one thing happening that led 474 00:24:55,723 --> 00:24:59,243 to another thing happening, you know, which is what the detectives 475 00:24:59,243 --> 00:25:03,283 and the prosecutors said got them interested in actually 476 00:25:03,283 --> 00:25:05,243 finally bringing charges against him. 477 00:25:09,283 --> 00:25:13,363 Ron Jeremy's alleged offences span nearly 30 years. 478 00:25:13,363 --> 00:25:16,803 For many younger performers, his ability to continue working 479 00:25:16,803 --> 00:25:20,003 for so long amid widespread rumours of his offending 480 00:25:20,003 --> 00:25:21,923 illustrated a problem in the industry. 481 00:25:25,963 --> 00:25:29,283 I wanted to meet one of those affected. 482 00:25:29,283 --> 00:25:31,683 In 1997, aged 25, 483 00:25:31,683 --> 00:25:34,763 Jen Mondello had been attempting to find her way 484 00:25:34,763 --> 00:25:38,843 into an adult film career under the name Jennifer Steele. 485 00:25:38,843 --> 00:25:41,403 Ron Jeremy had offered to act as her mentor. 486 00:25:42,923 --> 00:25:45,643 20 years on, with 100 films behind her, 487 00:25:45,643 --> 00:25:49,323 she is retired from porn and lives in Florida. 488 00:25:49,323 --> 00:25:52,043 Hi, Jen? Hi, how are you? 489 00:25:52,043 --> 00:25:54,443 OK. Nice to meet you. Louis. Nice to meet you too. 490 00:25:54,443 --> 00:25:55,923 Come on in. 491 00:25:55,923 --> 00:25:58,163 Oh, nice and cool in here. Yeah. 492 00:25:58,163 --> 00:26:00,683 Can we look at some of your old memorabilia, if you have it? 493 00:26:00,683 --> 00:26:02,163 I have a whole box. 494 00:26:02,163 --> 00:26:03,843 How long were you in the industry? 495 00:26:03,843 --> 00:26:05,763 About ten years. 496 00:26:05,763 --> 00:26:08,763 Like, my movie span is about a 10-year span. 497 00:26:08,763 --> 00:26:11,923 So, shall I start pulling stuff out? Sure, yeah. 498 00:26:11,923 --> 00:26:15,323 This is an 8x10 that I would sign for somebody, you know. 499 00:26:15,323 --> 00:26:18,763 The tan lines are part of the look, right? Oh, yeah. 500 00:26:18,763 --> 00:26:21,443 I had my tanning bikini that gave the perfect lines, 501 00:26:21,443 --> 00:26:23,603 so I had the same line every time. 502 00:26:23,603 --> 00:26:26,563 Makes it feel more taboo. I guess so. Naughty. 503 00:26:26,563 --> 00:26:28,803 I was young and I cared. 504 00:26:28,803 --> 00:26:31,003 I wouldn't go that far now. 505 00:26:31,003 --> 00:26:33,843 Am I right in saying you have a lot of happy memories? 506 00:26:33,843 --> 00:26:35,123 Oh, yeah. 507 00:26:35,123 --> 00:26:38,203 I have to say that my gang bang scenes were the most fun. 508 00:26:38,203 --> 00:26:40,563 How many gang bangs did you do? 509 00:26:40,563 --> 00:26:43,043 Somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen. 510 00:26:43,043 --> 00:26:45,163 And typically how many people would it be? 511 00:26:45,163 --> 00:26:48,123 The most was 20. It was the Mexican gang bang. 512 00:26:48,123 --> 00:26:50,043 The Mexican anal gang bang. 513 00:26:51,403 --> 00:26:54,123 You did that? Yeah, I did that. 514 00:26:54,123 --> 00:26:56,643 How was that? It's not something that I would enjoy now but... 515 00:26:56,643 --> 00:26:58,123 What was Mexican about it? 516 00:26:58,123 --> 00:27:00,563 All the, erm, all the men were Mexican. 517 00:27:01,883 --> 00:27:03,643 Here's a DVD. 518 00:27:03,643 --> 00:27:06,203 "Jennifer Steele Does Amsterdam 420." 519 00:27:06,203 --> 00:27:07,923 What does that mean? 520 00:27:07,923 --> 00:27:09,323 We went to Amsterdam, 521 00:27:09,323 --> 00:27:12,363 and we just picked out a bunch of random dudes at Cannabis Cup, 522 00:27:12,363 --> 00:27:15,203 brought them back to the hotel and fucked them. 523 00:27:15,203 --> 00:27:18,243 They stuck a bong in my ass and then smoked pot out of it. 524 00:27:18,243 --> 00:27:20,723 It looks like you're with James Corden. 525 00:27:20,723 --> 00:27:23,323 No, there's no James Corden. Look at him... 526 00:27:23,323 --> 00:27:25,323 SHE LAUGHS HYSTERICALLY 527 00:27:29,403 --> 00:27:31,803 That's not James Corden! 528 00:27:36,483 --> 00:27:39,363 All right. Shall we talk about what happened? 529 00:27:39,363 --> 00:27:40,723 Sure. Yeah. 530 00:27:40,723 --> 00:27:42,563 When Jen had met Ron Jeremy, 531 00:27:42,563 --> 00:27:45,963 she was working as an exotic dancer in Oregon. 532 00:27:45,963 --> 00:27:49,523 He invited her to Los Angeles, landing her a job as a model 533 00:27:49,523 --> 00:27:53,003 in a photo shoot he was doing for Hustler Magazine. 534 00:27:53,003 --> 00:27:56,003 I went down to Los Angeles, 535 00:27:56,003 --> 00:27:57,523 he picked me up from the airport, 536 00:27:57,523 --> 00:28:00,443 he took me to the Hustler Studio. 537 00:28:00,443 --> 00:28:02,363 In the Hustler Studio, 538 00:28:02,363 --> 00:28:04,443 we got all ready for the picture and everything. 539 00:28:04,443 --> 00:28:06,323 He kept shaking his dick in front of everybody 540 00:28:06,323 --> 00:28:07,843 and he couldn't get it up. 541 00:28:07,843 --> 00:28:11,123 Pressure on him to basically deliver "solid wood." 542 00:28:11,123 --> 00:28:13,123 Mm-hm. So you felt bad for him? 543 00:28:13,123 --> 00:28:16,483 I felt bad for him. He can't get it up - what's he going to do? 544 00:28:16,483 --> 00:28:19,043 And then he asked if I would bend over in front of him 545 00:28:19,043 --> 00:28:21,683 so he could look and jack off and give him a visual fluff, 546 00:28:21,683 --> 00:28:23,243 and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, totally." 547 00:28:23,243 --> 00:28:25,483 This is something I would do... In the bathroom? 548 00:28:25,483 --> 00:28:27,243 In the bathroom. 549 00:28:27,243 --> 00:28:30,323 So I bent over for him so he could look. 550 00:28:30,323 --> 00:28:33,363 He put his hand on me, and I said, "What are you doing?" 551 00:28:33,363 --> 00:28:35,603 And then he said, "I'm not doing anything," 552 00:28:35,603 --> 00:28:37,683 and then he stuck his dick in me. 553 00:28:37,683 --> 00:28:39,923 And that's, you know... 554 00:28:39,923 --> 00:28:42,203 And I tried to push back, 555 00:28:42,203 --> 00:28:44,723 but by pushing back I was pushing forward 556 00:28:44,723 --> 00:28:46,643 because I, like, had my face in a paper towel holder. 557 00:28:46,643 --> 00:28:49,043 There was nowhere for me to go. 558 00:28:49,043 --> 00:28:51,163 And then I think once I started struggling, 559 00:28:51,163 --> 00:28:54,403 that's when, like, I mean, as I said, 560 00:28:54,403 --> 00:28:56,443 it was only just a few seconds, you know. 561 00:28:56,443 --> 00:28:59,163 He apologised. Like, "I'm so sorry - I'll never do that again." 562 00:28:59,163 --> 00:29:02,123 And I felt safe enough to get into the car. 563 00:29:02,123 --> 00:29:06,003 So, are you OK to talk about what happened when you went back to his, 564 00:29:06,003 --> 00:29:08,963 was it an apartment or a house? It was an apartment. Mm-hm. 565 00:29:08,963 --> 00:29:11,403 Yeah. I made the assumption that 566 00:29:11,403 --> 00:29:13,883 I was going to have my own room, or at least a couch. 567 00:29:13,883 --> 00:29:15,523 I was trying to be polite about it, 568 00:29:15,523 --> 00:29:19,163 telling him that sex was not part of our deal, 569 00:29:19,163 --> 00:29:22,923 and he told me that that wasn't an issue. 570 00:29:22,923 --> 00:29:27,003 In fact, he made me feel kind of silly even saying it, you know. 571 00:29:27,003 --> 00:29:29,763 His couch was all full of, like, movies and stuff, 572 00:29:29,763 --> 00:29:32,283 like movies and magazines and stuff like that. 573 00:29:32,283 --> 00:29:33,923 He said, "Just give me 20 minutes 574 00:29:33,923 --> 00:29:36,003 "and I'll get this all cleaned off for you." 575 00:29:36,003 --> 00:29:39,163 And I'm like, "I'm not waiting." I was exhausted. 576 00:29:39,163 --> 00:29:42,123 So I literally went over to the corner of his mattress 577 00:29:42,123 --> 00:29:44,123 and I just crashed up against the wall. 578 00:29:44,123 --> 00:29:46,483 I'm wearing my jeans, I'm wearing my tank top, 579 00:29:46,483 --> 00:29:48,323 like, I'm wearing my clothes, 580 00:29:48,323 --> 00:29:50,123 so there was no, you know... 581 00:29:50,123 --> 00:29:52,603 And then he turned on the light and he woke me up. 582 00:29:52,603 --> 00:29:54,963 And he said, "You're going to get interviewed a lot 583 00:29:54,963 --> 00:29:59,123 "and one of the things that I'm well known for 584 00:29:59,123 --> 00:30:01,083 "is that I eat the best pussy in the business, 585 00:30:01,083 --> 00:30:04,043 "and I want women to say that when they're getting interviewed." 586 00:30:04,043 --> 00:30:07,163 And I told him, I said, "Oh, you know, I'll... 587 00:30:07,163 --> 00:30:09,843 "I'll say you killed it," you know? 588 00:30:09,843 --> 00:30:12,723 And he was like, "No, no, no, I want to really do it." 589 00:30:12,723 --> 00:30:15,643 And he said, "If you let me do this, please, 590 00:30:15,643 --> 00:30:17,763 "I'm doing all this stuff for you and everything, 591 00:30:17,763 --> 00:30:19,523 "I'm introducing you to all these people. 592 00:30:19,523 --> 00:30:21,843 "If you let me do this, I promise I will leave you alone. 593 00:30:21,843 --> 00:30:24,683 And I'm thinking, "Well, he should leave me alone, anyway, 594 00:30:24,683 --> 00:30:26,763 "but I have a deal here, so..." 595 00:30:28,363 --> 00:30:31,003 I ended up going for it and I took my pants off, 596 00:30:31,003 --> 00:30:32,203 he went down on me. 597 00:30:33,563 --> 00:30:35,723 I came, 598 00:30:35,723 --> 00:30:37,083 and then after that... 599 00:30:38,883 --> 00:30:40,523 His pants were off. 600 00:30:42,403 --> 00:30:47,403 He took his pants off during that somehow, without me knowing, erm... 601 00:30:47,403 --> 00:30:49,083 ..and then he raped me. 602 00:30:54,243 --> 00:30:57,043 He was raping me anally and he stopped when I was crying 603 00:30:57,043 --> 00:30:59,203 and bleeding, erm... 604 00:30:59,203 --> 00:31:02,043 In your account, you actually say he says... I'm sorry. 605 00:31:02,043 --> 00:31:06,123 All the, it's all... Are you OK? Yeah, like, it's just all... 606 00:31:10,643 --> 00:31:12,803 I don't think Ron Jeremy's a bad person, 607 00:31:12,803 --> 00:31:15,803 but at that moment there was a monster that was there 608 00:31:15,803 --> 00:31:17,843 and that was... 609 00:31:17,843 --> 00:31:20,523 I knew that my options were done. 610 00:31:20,523 --> 00:31:24,123 It was like, there's only so many noes you can give 611 00:31:24,123 --> 00:31:26,363 before you just run out of noes. 612 00:31:26,363 --> 00:31:29,643 And, like, when he gave me that look, that was when I froze, 613 00:31:29,643 --> 00:31:33,483 that was when I had that, that was when the switch flipped of 614 00:31:33,483 --> 00:31:35,643 humanity's just not what I think it is. 615 00:31:38,083 --> 00:31:39,523 I mean, it just...it... 616 00:31:49,843 --> 00:31:51,243 He knew what he was doing. 617 00:31:53,363 --> 00:31:56,083 And it didn't put you off, erm, 618 00:31:56,083 --> 00:31:58,963 getting into adult film, did it, cos, basically, 619 00:31:58,963 --> 00:32:01,803 the following year you went into it? 620 00:32:01,803 --> 00:32:03,283 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 621 00:32:03,283 --> 00:32:05,883 Sort of with both feet, kind of thing. Oh, yeah, balls in. 622 00:32:05,883 --> 00:32:07,043 SHE LAUGHS 623 00:32:07,043 --> 00:32:11,203 It made me feel like I was taking control 624 00:32:11,203 --> 00:32:14,643 of my own sexuality after it had been taken from me. 625 00:32:14,643 --> 00:32:16,043 But it's about choice. 626 00:32:16,043 --> 00:32:18,083 Yeah, yeah, it's about choice. 627 00:32:18,083 --> 00:32:21,843 Like, I don't leave a gang bang feeling like I've been traumatised 628 00:32:21,843 --> 00:32:24,243 as long as everything was consensual. 629 00:32:24,243 --> 00:32:25,843 But if somebody's raping me 630 00:32:25,843 --> 00:32:28,203 and they're doing something without their consent, 631 00:32:28,203 --> 00:32:30,363 then that's traumatising. 632 00:32:30,363 --> 00:32:34,203 How important is it to you that Ron Jeremy should get convicted? 633 00:32:34,203 --> 00:32:35,963 I hope he does get convicted 634 00:32:35,963 --> 00:32:40,203 because I think, honestly, that for him to be in a medical facility 635 00:32:40,203 --> 00:32:42,443 would be the best thing for him. 636 00:32:42,443 --> 00:32:45,603 I think separating him from society is necessary. 637 00:32:47,203 --> 00:32:49,243 But as far as my healing goes, 638 00:32:49,243 --> 00:32:53,963 what has happened already with the system is what I needed. 639 00:32:55,163 --> 00:32:57,083 Erm, and that was for... 640 00:33:00,123 --> 00:33:03,923 That was for the DA to tell me that he believed my story. 641 00:33:03,923 --> 00:33:07,203 And that it was rape and that I was raped 642 00:33:07,203 --> 00:33:11,043 and that it mattered, despite what I did for a living. 643 00:33:15,803 --> 00:33:19,683 Jen's need to be believed spoke to a common feeling among sex workers 644 00:33:19,683 --> 00:33:23,403 that their accounts of abuse are less likely to be taken seriously 645 00:33:23,403 --> 00:33:25,163 than other people's, 646 00:33:25,163 --> 00:33:27,003 simply because of what they do. 647 00:33:29,803 --> 00:33:33,643 With Ron Jeremy now awaiting trial for multiple counts of rape, 648 00:33:33,643 --> 00:33:35,883 it seemed that might be changing. 649 00:33:43,163 --> 00:33:44,563 Back in LA, 650 00:33:44,563 --> 00:33:47,843 and I'd been thinking more about power imbalances in the industry 651 00:33:47,843 --> 00:33:51,243 and how young performers might be influenced by older men 652 00:33:51,243 --> 00:33:54,323 to take part in sex they might not be OK with, 653 00:33:54,323 --> 00:33:57,203 in private and on set. 654 00:33:57,203 --> 00:34:01,123 I had an appointment at a shoot by a female-run studio called Bellesa, 655 00:34:01,123 --> 00:34:04,523 that was said to be giving its stars more control. 656 00:34:04,523 --> 00:34:06,203 Hi, Jacky? Yeah. 657 00:34:06,203 --> 00:34:08,123 Louis. Hi, Louis, it's nice to meet you. 658 00:34:08,123 --> 00:34:10,963 May I come in? Yeah, come on in. Thank you. 659 00:34:10,963 --> 00:34:15,363 The director went by the porn name Jacky St James. 660 00:34:15,363 --> 00:34:16,683 Where do you need me? 661 00:34:16,683 --> 00:34:18,523 In the middle of the bed, please. 662 00:34:18,523 --> 00:34:21,883 The set-up for the scene drew on something that had really happened 663 00:34:21,883 --> 00:34:25,763 to the two performers, who'd been friends but had fallen out. 664 00:34:25,763 --> 00:34:27,683 You're going to talk directly to me. 665 00:34:27,683 --> 00:34:30,803 Directly to you? Yes. OK. 666 00:34:30,803 --> 00:34:32,403 They were Michael Vegas, 667 00:34:32,403 --> 00:34:34,643 whom I'd met poolside in Pasadena... 668 00:34:34,643 --> 00:34:36,563 Slide over slightly. 669 00:34:36,563 --> 00:34:38,803 ..and Bunny Colby. 670 00:34:38,803 --> 00:34:41,563 What is your history with Bunny Colby? 671 00:34:41,563 --> 00:34:44,723 Well, we had done a scene together. 672 00:34:44,723 --> 00:34:46,243 Everything went great. 673 00:34:46,243 --> 00:34:49,883 And then we had a tumultuous interaction 674 00:34:49,883 --> 00:34:52,483 on the old social media. 675 00:34:52,483 --> 00:34:54,683 You guys have never worked one on one? We have not. 676 00:34:54,683 --> 00:34:58,483 We've only done a boy-boy girl-girl-girl together. 677 00:34:58,483 --> 00:35:01,843 Any expectations for how it will go when he walks through these doors? 678 00:35:03,363 --> 00:35:06,043 Erm, I think it will be a little awkward at first, 679 00:35:06,043 --> 00:35:07,363 but I think it will be fine. 680 00:35:09,563 --> 00:35:13,763 Ta-da! Oh, my God. Nice 'tache! 681 00:35:13,763 --> 00:35:15,763 Oh, thanks. 682 00:35:15,763 --> 00:35:17,803 It's so I can smell you better. 683 00:35:17,803 --> 00:35:19,403 I wish I had curly hair, it's amazing. 684 00:35:19,403 --> 00:35:21,843 Anything specific you want to do? 685 00:35:21,843 --> 00:35:24,803 I love giving and receiving oral sex. 686 00:35:24,803 --> 00:35:26,603 But I really love giving it. 687 00:35:26,603 --> 00:35:30,083 Yeah. Excellent, I love communication like that. 688 00:35:30,083 --> 00:35:32,763 So, what's going on in the culture somewhat 689 00:35:32,763 --> 00:35:36,163 is that there are new conversations about consent. 690 00:35:36,163 --> 00:35:37,483 In the college campus setting 691 00:35:37,483 --> 00:35:40,643 they developed a concept of "enthusiastic consent." 692 00:35:40,643 --> 00:35:43,563 Like, consent on its own isn't enough. 693 00:35:43,563 --> 00:35:45,763 It has to be, like, an enthusiastic yes. 694 00:35:45,763 --> 00:35:47,963 You're not kind of tolerating the sex. 695 00:35:47,963 --> 00:35:52,203 Now, clearly, in the porn world that's not always going to apply 696 00:35:52,203 --> 00:35:54,323 because it's a job, right? Yep. 697 00:35:54,323 --> 00:35:58,003 You're not going to love every time you go out and have sex for work. 698 00:35:58,003 --> 00:36:01,763 And so, within that space, it feels as though 699 00:36:01,763 --> 00:36:05,363 there's the potential for bad sex to take place, 700 00:36:05,363 --> 00:36:09,683 or sex which you don't even know if you're completely OK with. 701 00:36:09,683 --> 00:36:12,683 The onus of responsibility lies on pretty much everyone that's 702 00:36:12,683 --> 00:36:15,683 involved, including the girl, the guy, the producers, 703 00:36:15,683 --> 00:36:17,723 when the girl is hired - their agent. 704 00:36:17,723 --> 00:36:18,963 So, everyone's communicating. 705 00:36:18,963 --> 00:36:21,443 "It's going to be this long, this is what you're going to dealing with. 706 00:36:21,443 --> 00:36:23,963 "Are you comfortable with the performer you're working with?" 707 00:36:23,963 --> 00:36:26,643 These are all things that should be taken care of prior 708 00:36:26,643 --> 00:36:28,203 to the arrival on set. 709 00:36:28,203 --> 00:36:31,163 Let's say the performer signed off a scene, 710 00:36:31,163 --> 00:36:34,843 and then it's just uncomfortable 711 00:36:34,843 --> 00:36:39,403 and they're not enjoying it at all. 712 00:36:39,403 --> 00:36:41,883 But they don't feel 713 00:36:41,883 --> 00:36:44,403 they can speak out. 714 00:36:44,403 --> 00:36:46,363 I mean, what do you then do with that? 715 00:36:46,363 --> 00:36:48,923 How we address that is, I guess, 716 00:36:48,923 --> 00:36:51,883 creating an environment where people feel safe to do so, but... 717 00:36:54,123 --> 00:36:58,163 ..I think a lot of times you'll see performers just saying yes 718 00:36:58,163 --> 00:36:59,683 to something they consented to, 719 00:36:59,683 --> 00:37:02,003 but maybe they're uncomfortable, maybe they're in pain 720 00:37:02,003 --> 00:37:04,123 and just are gutting it out until the scene's done. 721 00:37:04,123 --> 00:37:05,923 I think that one of the reasons, 722 00:37:05,923 --> 00:37:08,243 and it's one thing we always say at Bellesa, is, 723 00:37:08,243 --> 00:37:10,683 "No matter what, if you don't do this scene, 724 00:37:10,683 --> 00:37:12,083 "we are still paying you," 725 00:37:12,083 --> 00:37:14,963 whereas a lot of studios hold it over the head of the person - 726 00:37:14,963 --> 00:37:17,683 "Well, if you don't finish this scene, you're not getting paid." 727 00:37:19,283 --> 00:37:21,243 SOFT MOANING 728 00:37:23,403 --> 00:37:25,043 You guys have fun? 729 00:37:25,043 --> 00:37:26,843 Oh, yes. Yes. 730 00:37:26,843 --> 00:37:28,683 I really appreciated it. I like you. Yes. 731 00:37:28,683 --> 00:37:31,643 Nice job, guys, I wasn't allowed to talk to you before so, apologies... 732 00:37:31,643 --> 00:37:34,523 I told them! ..if it seemed like I was being rude. 733 00:37:34,523 --> 00:37:36,803 Thank you. Nice to see you. Much appreciated. 734 00:37:36,803 --> 00:37:40,003 Got to stay in the zone. Yeah. 735 00:37:40,003 --> 00:37:41,843 Personally, it felt great for me. 736 00:37:41,843 --> 00:37:44,083 I got to very much enjoy your body. Thank you. 737 00:37:44,083 --> 00:37:47,403 Your body language seemed like you enjoyed it. I did enjoy it. 738 00:37:47,403 --> 00:37:49,883 So, it's a win in my book. 739 00:37:49,883 --> 00:37:53,203 Sometimes it is more work and sometimes it is more enjoyable, 740 00:37:53,203 --> 00:37:56,403 but I would never do something that I didn't at least have 741 00:37:56,403 --> 00:37:58,683 a good proportion of enjoyment at. 742 00:37:58,683 --> 00:38:01,323 Can you reflect on changes you've seen? 743 00:38:01,323 --> 00:38:04,483 It's nice to see that there is a bit more acceptance 744 00:38:04,483 --> 00:38:06,363 of people speaking out 745 00:38:06,363 --> 00:38:08,443 and that there are more options that we have 746 00:38:08,443 --> 00:38:10,403 even though they're not perfect. 747 00:38:10,403 --> 00:38:15,683 But there is still a lot of places 748 00:38:15,683 --> 00:38:18,083 where you need to be your own advocate. Mm-hm. 749 00:38:18,083 --> 00:38:21,043 And remembering that, I think, is very important. 750 00:38:21,043 --> 00:38:22,283 I think, Bunny, 751 00:38:22,283 --> 00:38:24,403 you had an experience with someone in the industry. 752 00:38:24,403 --> 00:38:27,043 There was just one situation at, 753 00:38:27,043 --> 00:38:30,483 not even a shoot, it was like a party thing, 754 00:38:30,483 --> 00:38:32,403 that I got paid to go to. 755 00:38:32,403 --> 00:38:35,523 And, you know, my big problem wasn't even what happened there. 756 00:38:35,523 --> 00:38:37,443 I got assaulted, but it was fairly minor, 757 00:38:37,443 --> 00:38:39,443 somebody groped me, which is still inappropriate - 758 00:38:39,443 --> 00:38:41,123 don't do that. Mm-hm. 759 00:38:41,123 --> 00:38:43,803 My problem was...how the people I reached out to 760 00:38:43,803 --> 00:38:47,043 afterwards reacted, and that's really... 761 00:38:47,043 --> 00:38:48,643 Can we say that it was your agent? 762 00:38:48,643 --> 00:38:52,083 Yes. And that's somebody that you need to protect you. 763 00:38:52,083 --> 00:38:54,083 That's somebody you are reaching out to, 764 00:38:54,083 --> 00:38:55,603 to make sure that your work is safe. 765 00:38:55,603 --> 00:38:58,643 The real, I think, trauma of the situation 766 00:38:58,643 --> 00:39:03,483 was being told that what happened to me didn't happen. Mm-hm. 767 00:39:03,483 --> 00:39:06,723 Like, being gaslighted and told, "Oh, that didn't happen to you, 768 00:39:06,723 --> 00:39:09,443 "and even if it did happen to you, who cares?" 769 00:39:09,443 --> 00:39:11,323 Like, that's essentially what I was told. 770 00:39:11,323 --> 00:39:14,403 And that's not allowing people to be in a position in this industry 771 00:39:14,403 --> 00:39:16,443 where they're able to advocate for themselves 772 00:39:16,443 --> 00:39:18,923 and able to make good choices about what they want to do, 773 00:39:18,923 --> 00:39:21,563 and feel fine at the end of the day, coming away from it. 774 00:39:21,563 --> 00:39:23,683 And what was his name? Derek Hay. 775 00:39:29,803 --> 00:39:31,483 For the best part of a decade, 776 00:39:31,483 --> 00:39:34,243 Derek Hay was the most powerful agent in porn. 777 00:39:36,203 --> 00:39:38,003 But along with his power 778 00:39:38,003 --> 00:39:40,603 came rumours that he was controlling and vindictive. 779 00:39:40,603 --> 00:39:43,043 Hey, you've got a busy day here, today, haven't you? Mm-hm. 780 00:39:43,043 --> 00:39:44,283 What have you got going on? 781 00:39:44,283 --> 00:39:46,483 I'm not sure how many shoots we're doing today 782 00:39:46,483 --> 00:39:48,563 but there's today's schedule. 783 00:39:48,563 --> 00:39:51,643 I'd met him on a visit to the industry in 2011. 784 00:39:51,643 --> 00:39:55,643 Two scenes was boy-girl scenes, and one was anal. 785 00:39:55,643 --> 00:39:56,963 Yeah. 786 00:39:56,963 --> 00:39:59,283 Had you ever done anal before? 787 00:39:59,283 --> 00:40:02,603 I, actually, like, in my real life 788 00:40:02,603 --> 00:40:04,483 I really don't do much anal. 789 00:40:04,483 --> 00:40:07,043 That would suggest maybe you don't enjoy it that much? 790 00:40:07,043 --> 00:40:09,883 I'm not sure that I agree with your question. 791 00:40:09,883 --> 00:40:13,803 I can think of a lot of things that we don't do in our personal life 792 00:40:13,803 --> 00:40:16,363 that we do at work. Yeah. 793 00:40:16,363 --> 00:40:19,243 Seven years later, five performers he represented 794 00:40:19,243 --> 00:40:22,163 brought a legal case, suing to get out of their contracts, 795 00:40:22,163 --> 00:40:24,683 alleging sexual misconduct by Derek. 796 00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:28,603 They also said he'd steered them into doing illegal escorting work 797 00:40:28,603 --> 00:40:31,283 for a company called The Luxury Companion. 798 00:40:33,283 --> 00:40:36,163 In many ways, Derek represented that old guard 799 00:40:36,163 --> 00:40:38,683 of industry power brokers I'd been hearing about. 800 00:40:42,603 --> 00:40:44,563 Derek lives in Las Vegas. 801 00:40:44,563 --> 00:40:47,403 He'd agreed to speak, asking that we meet 802 00:40:47,403 --> 00:40:49,763 at a tattoo parlour he owns in the city. 803 00:40:52,443 --> 00:40:55,243 Hello, hello. Can I come in? 804 00:40:55,243 --> 00:40:58,163 You can. How are you doing? Good. You must be Jamie? 805 00:40:58,163 --> 00:41:01,043 I am Jamie, nice to meet you. Louis. Nice to meet you. 806 00:41:01,043 --> 00:41:02,643 Hi. Derek. 807 00:41:02,643 --> 00:41:05,123 You've kindly arranged for Jamie to be here. 808 00:41:05,123 --> 00:41:09,083 Jamie, you're relatively new to the business, would you say? 809 00:41:09,083 --> 00:41:11,083 Yeah, about eight months. About eight months. 810 00:41:11,083 --> 00:41:12,683 Eight months of shooting, yeah. 811 00:41:12,683 --> 00:41:16,163 So, tell me how you relate to Derek - he's your agent? 812 00:41:16,163 --> 00:41:17,523 He's my agent, yes. 813 00:41:17,523 --> 00:41:19,323 I'm really grateful to Derek 814 00:41:19,323 --> 00:41:23,843 for immediately making me feel like a respected worker, 815 00:41:23,843 --> 00:41:27,763 which is what every performer can ask for, yeah. 816 00:41:27,763 --> 00:41:29,843 You probably would have noticed 817 00:41:29,843 --> 00:41:32,883 that Derek had some legal situations he was dealing with? 818 00:41:32,883 --> 00:41:37,363 I was familiar with the, you know, 819 00:41:37,363 --> 00:41:40,803 legal trouble around this agency, 820 00:41:40,803 --> 00:41:44,043 but so much of what you read about porn is stigmatised 821 00:41:44,043 --> 00:41:45,523 or sensationalised. 822 00:41:45,523 --> 00:41:47,963 And I just thought I could be a better judge myself. 823 00:41:47,963 --> 00:41:52,923 So, one of the things you've been dealing with is a labour commission. 824 00:41:52,923 --> 00:41:55,443 And it found against you, correct? 825 00:41:55,443 --> 00:41:57,043 That was last year. 826 00:41:57,043 --> 00:41:59,963 Ah, not completely true, no. 827 00:41:59,963 --> 00:42:02,723 In part they found against me, yeah. 828 00:42:02,723 --> 00:42:05,043 But that's appealed to superior court. 829 00:42:05,043 --> 00:42:07,003 You've made an appeal. 830 00:42:07,003 --> 00:42:11,403 And they have not renewed you license in LA, 831 00:42:11,403 --> 00:42:13,163 is that right? 832 00:42:13,163 --> 00:42:16,483 Er, that's another, er, subject 833 00:42:16,483 --> 00:42:18,883 that's being contested. 834 00:42:18,883 --> 00:42:22,043 As it stands, could we say that, right now, 835 00:42:22,043 --> 00:42:25,643 right now do you have a licence to be an agent in LA? 836 00:42:25,643 --> 00:42:28,483 I have a licence in Nevada and in Florida. 837 00:42:28,483 --> 00:42:30,443 So does that put a crimp in your ability 838 00:42:30,443 --> 00:42:33,843 to represent young talent like Jamie? 839 00:42:33,843 --> 00:42:37,003 Er, no, cos I'm still a licensed agent. 840 00:42:37,003 --> 00:42:40,283 Actually, I don't think there's any agent who's ever held licenses 841 00:42:40,283 --> 00:42:41,363 in three states. 842 00:42:41,363 --> 00:42:44,483 So, this is a little bit private, maybe intrusive, 843 00:42:44,483 --> 00:42:47,163 but I'll just try it out, put it out there. 844 00:42:47,163 --> 00:42:49,683 Say it ain't so! DEREK LAUGHS 845 00:42:49,683 --> 00:42:53,483 OK. So, are you and Derek in any way involved? 846 00:42:53,483 --> 00:42:57,283 No. No, we have a wonderful professional relationship. 847 00:42:57,283 --> 00:43:03,243 Because Derek has form in dating clients, 848 00:43:03,243 --> 00:43:06,883 models, he represents. Correct, Derek? 849 00:43:06,883 --> 00:43:09,003 I've dated a number of models in the past, 850 00:43:09,003 --> 00:43:11,003 but you won't find any recently. 851 00:43:11,003 --> 00:43:14,003 No. Have you stopped doing that? 852 00:43:14,003 --> 00:43:16,483 For many years, yes. 853 00:43:16,483 --> 00:43:19,363 OK. Jamie, if it's all right with you, I might have a sit down 854 00:43:19,363 --> 00:43:21,643 with Derek now. Is that OK? 855 00:43:21,643 --> 00:43:23,003 Yes, sounds great. 856 00:43:23,003 --> 00:43:25,043 If I can just pause for two minutes - 857 00:43:25,043 --> 00:43:27,163 this is an artist that's going to do a tattoo. 858 00:43:27,163 --> 00:43:29,763 Let me just see if she wants to come in and get set up. OK. 859 00:43:33,163 --> 00:43:36,363 The five models suing Derek painted a picture of a company 860 00:43:36,363 --> 00:43:39,203 where Derek pressured performers into sex. 861 00:43:39,203 --> 00:43:42,123 Two also alleged he'd assaulted them. 862 00:43:42,123 --> 00:43:45,603 Among the women were three whose porn names were Hadley Viscara, 863 00:43:45,603 --> 00:43:47,843 Sofi Ryan, and Shay Evans. 864 00:43:49,043 --> 00:43:52,003 Derek has always denied any wrongdoing. 865 00:43:52,003 --> 00:43:53,523 The customer's not coming till 12. 866 00:43:53,523 --> 00:43:56,043 Great. The most serious stuff, 867 00:43:56,043 --> 00:44:00,883 a lot of it is around the idea of inappropriate sexual relationships 868 00:44:00,883 --> 00:44:03,003 between you and artists that you represented 869 00:44:03,003 --> 00:44:06,163 in which they felt they were either required or coerced, 870 00:44:06,163 --> 00:44:08,523 or, in a couple of cases, assaulted. 871 00:44:10,083 --> 00:44:13,123 Shay Evans says that you said, "If you sleep with me, 872 00:44:13,123 --> 00:44:16,923 "if you agree to a relationship, I will make you a star." 873 00:44:16,923 --> 00:44:19,643 Well, I have to correct you on that - 874 00:44:19,643 --> 00:44:21,603 I don't think Shay Evans has said that. 875 00:44:21,603 --> 00:44:24,563 I've got the Shay Evans quote on my phone, if that would be... 876 00:44:24,563 --> 00:44:27,163 Would that be helpful, if I gave you the exact quote? 877 00:44:27,163 --> 00:44:28,523 I don't mind. 878 00:44:28,523 --> 00:44:29,923 OK. 879 00:44:29,923 --> 00:44:32,763 "Derek asked me if I wanted to come back to his hotel room. 880 00:44:32,763 --> 00:44:35,923 "He asked me a few times, and then I agreed, 881 00:44:35,923 --> 00:44:38,083 "and then in the car ride over there he kept telling me 882 00:44:38,083 --> 00:44:41,283 "how I would get a lot of work and that he'd make me a star. 883 00:44:41,283 --> 00:44:44,763 "When Shay refused..." This is the trip to Hawaii. 884 00:44:44,763 --> 00:44:48,243 "..she alleged that all porn work began to dry up for her 885 00:44:48,243 --> 00:44:50,163 "on her return home. 886 00:44:50,163 --> 00:44:53,603 "Then she was given a shoot with Pierre Woodman as a punishment. 887 00:44:53,603 --> 00:44:57,083 "Even though she rang Derek, crying hysterically before the shoot, 888 00:44:57,083 --> 00:44:58,963 "he insisted she could not cancel." 889 00:45:00,323 --> 00:45:01,723 Really? 890 00:45:01,723 --> 00:45:03,963 No woman in the adult film industry 891 00:45:03,963 --> 00:45:06,283 is coerced to do any particular shoot. 892 00:45:06,283 --> 00:45:08,323 What's your position on the idea that... 893 00:45:09,803 --> 00:45:12,603 ..you sexually assaulted, erm, 894 00:45:12,603 --> 00:45:14,603 a couple of your models? 895 00:45:14,603 --> 00:45:19,003 I did have sex with one of those women on multiple occasions 896 00:45:19,003 --> 00:45:21,123 cos we were dating, so... 897 00:45:21,123 --> 00:45:23,563 Sofi Ryan? Correct. 898 00:45:23,563 --> 00:45:26,563 Out of dozens of times that we were intimate, 899 00:45:26,563 --> 00:45:30,723 the allegation is that one of those times was coercive. 900 00:45:30,723 --> 00:45:32,963 Her version sounded dreadful, right? 901 00:45:32,963 --> 00:45:36,043 I mean, it wasn't like, "Oh, it was ambiguous." 902 00:45:36,043 --> 00:45:38,323 I mean, she describes it as, you pulled over in a car 903 00:45:38,323 --> 00:45:40,243 where there was no phone coverage, 904 00:45:40,243 --> 00:45:43,003 having kind of finagled her into the car, 905 00:45:43,003 --> 00:45:46,723 and said, "If you don't give me a hand job, 906 00:45:46,723 --> 00:45:49,563 "I'm going to leave you here to die." 907 00:45:49,563 --> 00:45:51,003 Right. 908 00:45:52,883 --> 00:45:56,563 But she was happy to...come and spend the night with me 909 00:45:56,563 --> 00:45:58,523 just a couple of nights later? 910 00:46:05,803 --> 00:46:07,963 Is there anything more you wanted to say about that? 911 00:46:07,963 --> 00:46:09,963 No. I need to pause. 912 00:46:09,963 --> 00:46:12,123 I've got to let this tattoo artist in. OK, do it. 913 00:46:17,723 --> 00:46:19,523 Do you want to set up over here? 914 00:46:22,163 --> 00:46:24,883 Right. What do you...? Give me one second. 915 00:46:29,483 --> 00:46:32,163 Can you give me five minutes? Yeah. OK. Thanks. 916 00:46:36,603 --> 00:46:38,883 Because it's one of the more serious allegations, 917 00:46:38,883 --> 00:46:41,883 we should deal with Hadley Viscara's claim 918 00:46:41,883 --> 00:46:45,683 that, you know, she was sexually assaulted by you. Mm-hm. 919 00:46:45,683 --> 00:46:48,843 She says twice, on two occasions. 920 00:46:48,843 --> 00:46:52,683 And, erm... On two occasions... One was... ..two days apart. 921 00:46:52,683 --> 00:46:55,083 Four days apart. No. 922 00:46:55,083 --> 00:46:57,523 We'll agree to disagree. All right. 923 00:46:57,523 --> 00:47:01,763 One was a coerced blow job, I guess. 924 00:47:01,763 --> 00:47:06,963 And the second was, I guess, a more full-on assault 925 00:47:06,963 --> 00:47:08,803 in which she says she was very drunk. 926 00:47:08,803 --> 00:47:14,043 Yeah, she made a police report on that seven months after the fact. 927 00:47:14,043 --> 00:47:18,523 And Las Vegas police made some investigation on that 928 00:47:18,523 --> 00:47:21,003 and then declined to... 929 00:47:21,003 --> 00:47:23,723 ..to pursue the case further. 930 00:47:23,723 --> 00:47:25,843 What's your position on what happened? 931 00:47:25,843 --> 00:47:31,363 Both of those occasions was entirely consensual, er... 932 00:47:31,363 --> 00:47:33,603 ..sex between us. 933 00:47:33,603 --> 00:47:35,563 She's a lesbian. 934 00:47:35,563 --> 00:47:38,643 She became a lesbian after the fact. 935 00:47:38,643 --> 00:47:41,803 Since then - not at the time. 936 00:47:41,803 --> 00:47:44,563 So she says. 937 00:47:44,563 --> 00:47:47,723 So, I guess the crowning allegation is the idea 938 00:47:47,723 --> 00:47:50,843 that you made introductions to an escort agency 939 00:47:50,843 --> 00:47:55,083 and they began doing, I guess, illegal sex work as a result of that. 940 00:47:55,083 --> 00:47:58,723 "Hay knowingly attempted to help procure employment 941 00:47:58,723 --> 00:48:01,563 "for petitioners with The Luxury Companion, 942 00:48:01,563 --> 00:48:04,283 "an escort service, 943 00:48:04,283 --> 00:48:06,563 "and helped book employment for Viscara..." 944 00:48:06,563 --> 00:48:07,763 PHONE RINGS 945 00:48:07,763 --> 00:48:10,043 "..helped broker relationship with Sofi Ryan 946 00:48:10,043 --> 00:48:13,843 "and Shay Evans so they could work as escorts." One sec. 947 00:48:13,843 --> 00:48:16,363 Prestige Tattoo and Blade. 948 00:48:16,363 --> 00:48:19,203 Oh, yeah, she's here. 949 00:48:19,203 --> 00:48:20,723 No, no, you can come in. 950 00:48:20,723 --> 00:48:22,923 Where are you? Please come in. 951 00:48:25,163 --> 00:48:27,043 OK, please come in. 952 00:48:27,043 --> 00:48:28,603 Please come in. Thank you. 953 00:48:30,163 --> 00:48:31,763 Did you get the last bit? 954 00:48:31,763 --> 00:48:34,403 Yeah. 955 00:48:34,403 --> 00:48:38,083 I think I did, anyway. "Helped book employment for Viscara. 956 00:48:38,083 --> 00:48:42,083 "Helped broker relationship with Sofi Ryan, 957 00:48:42,083 --> 00:48:45,003 "Shay Evans, Andi Rye, 958 00:48:45,003 --> 00:48:47,083 "so they could work as escorts." 959 00:48:50,883 --> 00:48:52,483 Come in. 960 00:48:59,043 --> 00:49:02,163 It would be good to get just some sort of a response. 961 00:49:02,163 --> 00:49:03,563 OK, let me try one more time. 962 00:49:03,563 --> 00:49:07,923 OK, I actually would prefer you not read that again... OK. ..now. OK? 963 00:49:07,923 --> 00:49:11,723 OK. Did you get any sort of referral fee or finder's fee 964 00:49:11,723 --> 00:49:14,123 or introduction fee 965 00:49:14,123 --> 00:49:19,003 for steering your models to The Luxury Companion? 966 00:49:19,003 --> 00:49:22,883 I didn't steer our models to The Luxury Companion 967 00:49:22,883 --> 00:49:24,523 in the first place. 968 00:49:24,523 --> 00:49:25,843 Got no referral fee 969 00:49:25,843 --> 00:49:29,323 and no percentage of their earnings at all. 970 00:49:29,323 --> 00:49:33,163 I feel like we've taken up a lot of your time. Are you OK? 971 00:49:33,163 --> 00:49:35,723 Yes, I'm fine, thank you. Hm. 972 00:49:35,723 --> 00:49:39,243 So, the big picture, I suppose, 973 00:49:39,243 --> 00:49:42,003 is the feeling that artists 974 00:49:42,003 --> 00:49:45,203 would enter relationships with you, 975 00:49:45,203 --> 00:49:46,683 sexual relationships, 976 00:49:46,683 --> 00:49:50,563 and...if you were unhappy with how they ended 977 00:49:50,563 --> 00:49:52,883 or the way that they ended, 978 00:49:52,883 --> 00:49:56,083 you'd intentionally destroy their careers. 979 00:49:56,083 --> 00:49:58,403 That's the allegation that was made. 980 00:49:59,883 --> 00:50:02,283 I contend that none of that is true. 981 00:50:03,563 --> 00:50:04,963 Certainly, 982 00:50:04,963 --> 00:50:08,403 the women have come up with a narrative 983 00:50:08,403 --> 00:50:12,563 and script that is unbelievably similar. 984 00:50:12,563 --> 00:50:16,803 In some cases, they are alleging near criminal conduct. 985 00:50:16,803 --> 00:50:21,283 So, I look forward to our day, or days, in court in May of next year. 986 00:50:26,603 --> 00:50:28,403 With all its interruptions, 987 00:50:28,403 --> 00:50:31,723 it had ended up being a slightly frustrating interview, 988 00:50:31,723 --> 00:50:35,323 and I wondered if it said something about Derek's personality, 989 00:50:35,323 --> 00:50:39,403 a steely quality of control. 990 00:50:39,403 --> 00:50:40,763 As it stands, 991 00:50:40,763 --> 00:50:43,603 Derek is appealing the labour commission ruling that upheld 992 00:50:43,603 --> 00:50:45,763 the sexual assault allegations against him. 993 00:50:48,003 --> 00:50:51,083 He also awaits a criminal trial on charges related 994 00:50:51,083 --> 00:50:54,043 to the escorting business, that could result in prison time. 995 00:50:56,883 --> 00:50:58,283 Allez, mademoiselle, 996 00:50:58,283 --> 00:51:01,163 these breasts look to be impressive. 997 00:51:01,163 --> 00:51:03,003 We will see later. 998 00:51:03,003 --> 00:51:06,603 One of the names that came up often in Derek's labour commission hearing 999 00:51:06,603 --> 00:51:08,523 was Pierre Woodman. 1000 00:51:08,523 --> 00:51:10,043 Two of Derek's performers said 1001 00:51:10,043 --> 00:51:12,763 they'd expressed concerns about working with Pierre, 1002 00:51:12,763 --> 00:51:16,483 and a third, named Andi Rye, said afterwards that aspects of 1003 00:51:16,483 --> 00:51:18,443 the scene had not been consensual. 1004 00:51:19,803 --> 00:51:21,923 Wow, Serenity Haze. 1005 00:51:21,923 --> 00:51:24,363 How old are you, Serenity? 22. 1006 00:51:25,563 --> 00:51:28,723 Another performer who worked with Pierre in 2016, 1007 00:51:28,723 --> 00:51:30,763 in a deal brokered by Derek, 1008 00:51:30,763 --> 00:51:33,283 went by the porn name Serenity Haze, 1009 00:51:33,283 --> 00:51:35,003 which she has since changed. 1010 00:51:36,643 --> 00:51:38,243 Why you decide to come to porn? 1011 00:51:38,243 --> 00:51:43,003 I want to be in magazines and movies and stuff like that. 1012 00:51:43,003 --> 00:51:45,323 More like exhibitionism stuff? 1013 00:51:45,323 --> 00:51:46,563 Yeah. 1014 00:51:46,563 --> 00:51:49,803 In a way, a worst-case scenario for you is, well... 1015 00:51:49,803 --> 00:51:52,563 One of the cases where a woman accused you of rape 1016 00:51:52,563 --> 00:51:55,083 was Serenity Haze, right? 1017 00:51:55,083 --> 00:51:57,083 When was your first blow job? 1018 00:51:57,083 --> 00:51:58,803 Oh, in porn? Back in... 1019 00:51:58,803 --> 00:52:00,763 No, no, no, no, no, in your life, in your life. 1020 00:52:00,763 --> 00:52:02,763 In January, in porn. 1021 00:52:02,763 --> 00:52:05,083 No. I don't suck dick in real life. 1022 00:52:05,083 --> 00:52:08,323 Never? No. If I'm not getting paid for it, I'm not doing it. 1023 00:52:09,323 --> 00:52:12,123 You never have sucked anyone? No. 1024 00:52:12,123 --> 00:52:15,523 It comes across that, sex in general, 1025 00:52:15,523 --> 00:52:17,843 she gives the impression of not enjoying. 1026 00:52:17,843 --> 00:52:19,603 You let him cum in your mouth? No. 1027 00:52:19,603 --> 00:52:22,243 You like to try? No. 1028 00:52:22,243 --> 00:52:25,043 Why not? Because I said "no." 1029 00:52:25,043 --> 00:52:26,323 No, no. 1030 00:53:10,243 --> 00:53:14,523 During the scene, she just is visibly uncomfortable 1031 00:53:14,523 --> 00:53:16,843 and she's becoming increasingly annoyed. 1032 00:53:16,843 --> 00:53:18,203 It's burning. 1033 00:53:18,203 --> 00:53:21,283 No, no, don't do this, because it will not go in - this is lubricant. 1034 00:53:21,283 --> 00:53:24,483 It's burning. No, I'm not doing that. 1035 00:53:36,163 --> 00:53:38,923 Afterwards, Serenity Haze took to Twitter, 1036 00:53:38,923 --> 00:53:41,483 complaining that she hadn't been paid for her scene... 1037 00:53:43,283 --> 00:53:46,003 ..and accusing Pierre of serious sexual assault. 1038 00:53:49,003 --> 00:53:51,123 In return, Pierre released this 1039 00:53:51,123 --> 00:53:53,883 behind-the-scenes footage of the incident. 1040 00:53:53,883 --> 00:53:58,723 What I saw was you attempting to negotiate with her. 1041 00:53:58,723 --> 00:54:00,043 Yes, because I... 1042 00:54:00,043 --> 00:54:02,803 And she experiences that as a kind of abuse, right? 1043 00:54:02,803 --> 00:54:07,203 I could see a case how that is a result of your working practices 1044 00:54:07,203 --> 00:54:10,443 colliding with her needs. 1045 00:54:10,443 --> 00:54:11,963 Does that make sense? 1046 00:54:11,963 --> 00:54:13,643 Does it make sense 1047 00:54:13,643 --> 00:54:17,323 if, in five minutes, I go to the internet and I write, 1048 00:54:17,323 --> 00:54:20,323 "Oh, my God, today Louis was here and I feel so bad now 1049 00:54:20,323 --> 00:54:22,563 "because he harassed me with his questions, coming back, 1050 00:54:22,563 --> 00:54:24,923 "coming back all the time that I'm a bad guy, 1051 00:54:24,923 --> 00:54:26,523 "I'm a rapist and everything. 1052 00:54:26,523 --> 00:54:28,043 "My God, now I have trouble 1053 00:54:28,043 --> 00:54:30,283 "and I need to go maybe for one week out of my world 1054 00:54:30,283 --> 00:54:32,843 "because my head is broken and I feel so bad now, 1055 00:54:32,843 --> 00:54:34,683 "all this crazy discussion, 1056 00:54:34,683 --> 00:54:37,403 "and this pressure he put on me, I don't know if I can..."? 1057 00:54:37,403 --> 00:54:39,323 Come on. 1058 00:54:39,323 --> 00:54:41,603 What will you think? You will smile. 1059 00:54:41,603 --> 00:54:43,803 If I speak just about money part, 1060 00:54:43,803 --> 00:54:47,763 I lost money, because I lost my morning or my afternoon of job. 1061 00:54:47,763 --> 00:54:51,083 Number two, if I said, "Oh, I send her back home," 1062 00:54:51,083 --> 00:54:53,963 then she will write on the internet 1063 00:54:53,963 --> 00:54:57,403 that I am a motherfucker because I didn't give her the job. 1064 00:54:57,403 --> 00:55:00,243 I just tried to make this girl feel good. 1065 00:55:00,243 --> 00:55:02,203 She was a stupid idiot. 1066 00:55:02,203 --> 00:55:04,163 Things didn't go well. 1067 00:55:04,163 --> 00:55:06,363 I didn't push, I let her go home, and that's it. 1068 00:55:06,363 --> 00:55:09,563 Do you accept the characterisation of you 1069 00:55:09,563 --> 00:55:12,323 that you use high-pressure tactics? 1070 00:55:12,323 --> 00:55:14,843 Yes. He start again... HE LAUGHS 1071 00:55:14,843 --> 00:55:18,163 OK, what is a high-pressure tactic? 1072 00:55:18,163 --> 00:55:19,763 Tell me something concrete. 1073 00:55:19,763 --> 00:55:23,243 Well, you use the example of having sex 1074 00:55:23,243 --> 00:55:25,843 with a woman on camera, 1075 00:55:25,843 --> 00:55:29,843 and then during the sex act saying, "Why don't we do a DP?" 1076 00:55:29,843 --> 00:55:31,883 One in the front, one in the back. 1077 00:55:31,883 --> 00:55:35,643 The more accepted practice would be to decide all of that beforehand. 1078 00:55:35,643 --> 00:55:38,523 Why? Well, so that... Who says that? 1079 00:55:38,523 --> 00:55:41,243 ..you're not moving the goalposts. Louis, who says that? 1080 00:55:41,243 --> 00:55:44,003 Well, all the performers that I've spoken to. 1081 00:55:44,003 --> 00:55:45,963 They say that before you start... No. Stop. 1082 00:55:45,963 --> 00:55:48,043 It's not in the middle of the sex, you don't say, 1083 00:55:48,043 --> 00:55:51,043 "Oh, you know what..." No. "..I'm going to cum inside you, 1084 00:55:51,043 --> 00:55:53,083 "even though that's not what you've agreed. 1085 00:55:53,083 --> 00:55:55,123 Stop. It's not true. 1086 00:55:55,123 --> 00:55:57,243 I am a guy who will discuss with the girl, 1087 00:55:57,243 --> 00:55:59,643 and decide with the girls. 1088 00:55:59,643 --> 00:56:01,843 I understand that you want absolutely to show me 1089 00:56:01,843 --> 00:56:03,163 like a bad person. 1090 00:56:03,163 --> 00:56:06,843 I don't know why, but it's probably a necessity for you. 1091 00:56:06,843 --> 00:56:10,363 It's easy to say bad things about everybody, you know. 1092 00:56:10,363 --> 00:56:11,923 So easy. I don't know you... 1093 00:56:11,923 --> 00:56:14,803 I can just, tomorrow or tonight when I will go home, 1094 00:56:14,803 --> 00:56:18,323 "Oh, today this British presenter came and, 1095 00:56:18,323 --> 00:56:21,203 "oh, I'm sure he's this or he's that." 1096 00:56:21,203 --> 00:56:23,843 Given everything that's going on, right... What do you mean? 1097 00:56:23,843 --> 00:56:25,363 MeToo, specifically. 1098 00:56:25,363 --> 00:56:27,203 There's more questions asked, 1099 00:56:27,203 --> 00:56:31,243 people demand more clarity about what is being agreed to. 1100 00:56:31,243 --> 00:56:33,563 Have you changed your practices? 1101 00:56:33,563 --> 00:56:35,483 Will you change your practices? 1102 00:56:35,483 --> 00:56:40,083 Do you want me to change something that I do since 30 years, works? 1103 00:56:40,083 --> 00:56:43,363 I consider that if a girl is 18 years old, 1104 00:56:43,363 --> 00:56:45,483 adult, and I speak to her, 1105 00:56:45,483 --> 00:56:47,563 she answer what she want to answer 1106 00:56:47,563 --> 00:56:50,123 and she do what she want to do. 1107 00:56:50,123 --> 00:56:52,963 I don't put a gun on her head to take my dick in the mouth, 1108 00:56:52,963 --> 00:56:56,043 in the ass or the pussy, she do whatever she want. 1109 00:57:01,283 --> 00:57:03,323 The encounter with Serenity Haze 1110 00:57:03,323 --> 00:57:05,403 and everything that went wrong with it, 1111 00:57:05,403 --> 00:57:09,523 encapsulated the issue with Pierre's working practices, 1112 00:57:09,523 --> 00:57:11,243 but it was also symptomatic of 1113 00:57:11,243 --> 00:57:14,643 a more pervasive tension in the adult industry - 1114 00:57:14,643 --> 00:57:16,723 a world where the questionable behaviours 1115 00:57:16,723 --> 00:57:19,043 that exist in all walks of life 1116 00:57:19,043 --> 00:57:22,403 coincide with a workplace involving extreme sex, 1117 00:57:22,403 --> 00:57:25,243 and where an unjustified stigma has meant that 1118 00:57:25,243 --> 00:57:28,563 the voices of its workers haven't always been heard. 1119 00:57:30,403 --> 00:57:33,683 Booty to me a little bit more. 1120 00:57:33,683 --> 00:57:38,003 I was back with Mia Malkova in her castle. 1121 00:57:38,003 --> 00:57:40,003 Right there, perfect, freeze. 1122 00:57:40,003 --> 00:57:43,123 Can you open the knees a little bit? Yeah. 1123 00:57:43,123 --> 00:57:44,963 Right there, right there, perfect. 1124 00:57:44,963 --> 00:57:46,243 SHUTTER CLICKS 1125 00:57:47,723 --> 00:57:49,883 It feels as though the industry is changing. 1126 00:57:49,883 --> 00:57:53,203 Yes, cos I just think back to when I came into the industry 1127 00:57:53,203 --> 00:57:56,403 and I was 19 and I didn't know a lot. 1128 00:57:56,403 --> 00:57:59,963 And I was just very eager to please and not make a fuss. 1129 00:57:59,963 --> 00:58:02,603 I've honestly been in situations 1130 00:58:02,603 --> 00:58:05,603 where the scenes have gotten more aggressive than I would like 1131 00:58:05,603 --> 00:58:08,523 but I'm still revved up, telling them, "Yes, more," 1132 00:58:08,523 --> 00:58:11,563 and I think a big part of it is you're just eager to please 1133 00:58:11,563 --> 00:58:13,003 everybody on set, 1134 00:58:13,003 --> 00:58:15,603 and once the camera starts it's really, really hard. 1135 00:58:15,603 --> 00:58:17,843 You have to be brave to muster up that courage 1136 00:58:17,843 --> 00:58:21,203 to, like, say, "Stop, no - I don't think like that." 1137 00:58:21,203 --> 00:58:23,763 But now we have these large followings 1138 00:58:23,763 --> 00:58:26,563 so with that comes a lot of power. 1139 00:58:26,563 --> 00:58:28,163 It's hard to ignore us any more, 1140 00:58:28,163 --> 00:58:30,163 especially when everyone's saying the same thing. 1141 00:58:30,163 --> 00:58:31,483 It's just, er... 1142 00:58:33,403 --> 00:58:35,003 It's empowering.