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YTS.MX
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[Sombre, resonant music]
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[Tish] "High levels of unemployment"
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"have always been
a hard and constant feature"
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"of life in the west end of Newcastle"
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[Tish's voice overlaps]
" our society has no solutions".
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"My work depends
on an investment of time"
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"intensified as it is"
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"by the government's
extreme free market philosophy"
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- " the Demon Snapper"
- " events and experience
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"that shape our lives"
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- " the confused fantasies"
- " diverse community
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"I've been documenting
the human effects of unemployment"
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"the consequences
of which will be enormous."
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"Young people, already experiencing
the problems of adolescence."
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"The future is nevertheless
clearly discernible."
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"Dear Ella, I give you my heart"
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[Shutter clicks, Ruminative music]
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[Gordon] The joy in her photographs
is incredible.
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- The history of working-class people.
- [Shutter clicks]
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[Ethel] She recognised, you know, beauty,
but it was usually as a means to an end.
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- [Shutter clicks]
- [Chris] She was a fighter.
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She wasn't going to sit still.
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She fought the good fight.
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[Shutter clicks]
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[Mik] If you want to photograph the tribe,
you've got to be part of the tribe.
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You've got to dance the same dance.
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[Shutter clicks, music continues]
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[Music concludes]
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[Ruminative music]
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[Ella] When I think of my mam,
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it's always people.
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[Music continues]
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[Ella] She just took pictures
of what was in front of her
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because she saw
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that what was in front of her,
her world and the people in it,
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they needed to be seen, do you know?
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And she knew that
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with this camera
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she could capture it, show people, and
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give people a value.
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Do you know, these people existed.
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They mattered
They lived They were there.
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And my mam was going to make sure
that they were seen.
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[Music continues]
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[Music subsides]
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[Gordon] I'd seen her work
in a show in Aberystwyth,
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and I walked around that show
and saw lots of work that I'd seen before.
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- And then I saw some that I hadn't.
- [Ella chuckles]
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and that I was really captivated by, and
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and I just thought that, "This is different"
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"I need to meet this person
and find out why."
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My mam had died
and I was clearing out her stuff,
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and I found this letter
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and it was from you - Yeah.
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And you had been to meet my mam at Side,
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but it was just saying
how much you'd enjoyed meeting her
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and you found her honesty,
like, so refreshing
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I mean, you don't
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you don't meet many people like Tish
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I've always sort of thought
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that history is so posh.
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You know, it's so much about rich wealth.
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Someone from that place,
genuinely recording
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and making part of history,
the lives of people,
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was really important.
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And there she was, doing it.
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So, all of that made it
feel more imperative that her work
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was actually embedded as part of a
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a history of Britain - [Ella] Yeah.
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[Gordon] A history
of working-class people.
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I have no idea
why Tish's work wasn't better known.
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Those photographs just felt really honest,
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and I just couldn't work out
how someone had managed it.
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Yeah - Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah, you just needed to know who and why.
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Yeah, how's this person
where've they come from to do this?
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How have they got the insight
to be able to do this?
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You know, grief's a horrible thing.
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And at that point,
when you got in touch with me,
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you were obviously, like.
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It was so raw, yeah - Very raw
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I have to say,
I've never seen a reaction like this
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I've never seen somebody - Really?
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No, it's so driven, Ella [Ella chuckles]
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It's so driven, and, you know, so, like, uh.
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"Let's get this done Let's make this right"
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[Record crackles, "Vissi d'arte" plays]
? Vissi d'arte
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? Vissi d'amore
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? Non feci mai male
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? Ad anima viva
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? Con man furtiva
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? Quante miserie
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# Conobbi, aiutai #
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[Music continues]
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[Music concludes]
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[Ella] What was it like
being Tish Murtha's little sister?
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Well, for a start, she demanded that,
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when the new baby came along,
it was going to be called Eileen.
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No-one had any say at all?
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[Eileen] Nobody had any say
That was what was happening.
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So, she would have been
two and a half? Three?
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[Ella] Two and a half,
and she was already so determined.
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Yeah Yeah, she was [Ella chuckles]
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Yeah.
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Yeah, very, very determined.
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[Ella] So, this is.
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[Eileen] Tish - [Ella] Tish.
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[Eileen] me and Mark
My brother Mark, yeah.
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[Ella] I love it - [Eileen] School photo!
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[Ella] She was the third oldest,
wasn't she? Was she quite protective?
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- [Eileen] Of the younger ones?
- [Ella] Yeah.
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[Eileen] Yeah, I mean, that was her role
That was her job, really
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I mean, there's nine months
between some of us.
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[Ella] Yeah.
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[Eileen] And my mother
was sort of very gentle.
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[Ella] Yeah - [Eileen] She was a great,
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wonderful mother.
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Encouraged us to be interested
in all sorts of things.
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You know, interested to cultivate
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creative and artistic things
that she'd seen in all of us,
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- in all of her ten her brood.
- [Ella chuckles]
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And I can remember her buying us
things like crayons and pencils and paper,
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even when she couldn't afford it.
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I'd been quite close to Tish,
because we used to go on our travels.
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She used to take me around with her,
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and I was probably
a pain in the back-side to her,
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but, when we moved to Elswick,
it was a very different.
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Completely different to South Shields.
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I call it
"the darkness on the edge of town"
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[Eileen chuckles] because it was.
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It was a It was a strange world.
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It had a floating population of people.
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There was always arterial blood
spilled along Elswick Road,
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and, you know,
sometimes it's funny, isn't it?
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Your memories are black and white,
but the blood's always red.
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All around us was these derelict houses.
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Some of them got knocked down
and levelled,
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so, there was always a wasteland
where the kids could have fires.
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But it was it was things like this
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and the name of the street there,
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in all its finery [Eileen chuckles]
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So, do you know the picture of you
where you're with three of the boys
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and you're on the pillars
of the old church
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and you look like statues?
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[Ella] You just look like
like you just own the place.
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[Ella chuckles]
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[Ella] What did he make you do?
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[Ella] What, even as kids?
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[Ella] Yeah.
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[Ruminative music]
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[Music subsides]
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[Eileen] We used to look in the bins.
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[Ella] Have a scavenge, look for treasure.
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- [Eileen] Yeah, we were proper skip-rats.
- [Ella] So, she found a camera?
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Yeah, yeah
We used to go in the old houses,
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and people had just left
and there was always stuff in them.
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There was encyclopedias,
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some of the most amazing books
and encyclopedias.
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And I think she probably got it
in one of those houses.
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It was considered to be
the worst square-mile in England.
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[Ella] Bloody hell - at that time.
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Often, you'd get cars driving up
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and driving along beside you
and asking you, you know, to get in.
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And there was lots of curious people
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who were probably fine,
but you just didn't know.
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And you had to learn quite quickly
and be streetwise.
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So, I think she took
to carrying that camera
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because you had to keep yourself safe.
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You had to keep your brothers
and sisters safe.
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[Ella] She always felt safer when she
had it Even though it had no film in it.
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- Yeah, that's right.
- So, when do you, like.
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When do you remember her first starting
to be interested in photography
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and actually having
some film in a camera
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and taking photographs?
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Probably about when she was about
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15, 16
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I remember me and her
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taking photographs one weekend
of each other
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I mean, I didn't know
how it worked, particularly,
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and I think Tish
was just learning, anyway,
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so, we took
these photographs of each other.
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That was one of the very first
I mean, it's so damaged, but.
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[Ella] It's beautiful, though.
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And she must have had
access to a darkroom,
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and I think Jos and Bob
had set one up in their house.
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[Jos] I met Eileen first
at a kind of youth club.
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She must have taken me back
for a cup of tea
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Tish must have been there.
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And then they started coming up
to my house where I was a student
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at Ravensworth
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I introduced her to the darkroom,
and she was raved over it.
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You know, going into a darkroom
and seeing actual photographs
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appear in front of your eyes in the dark.
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Well, she
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I have this, and it says in the front of it,
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"To Jos and Bob."
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"Do you see what you two started
when you gave me"
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"the use of a camera and darkroom
and made me go to college?"
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[Bob] I thought it'd be a good idea
for Tish to get formal instruction,
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but she was petrified.
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She was convinced
that they wouldn't take her.
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- She didn't have confidence in herself.
- [Bob] No confidence, yeah
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I think we literally
turned up at the front door
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and I walked in
and I said, "You're going in".
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Then I left her to it.
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[Dennis] Well, I'm teaching on a course
in Newcastle, at Bath Lane.
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- So, what was she like?
- She was tough.
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And she wasn't
going to take anything lying down.
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She was tough, she was strong - Yeah.
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Fortunately, we had cameras
that we could lend students.
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She brought some stuff to me
"That's my mam, that's my nan.
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- "That's my uncle, that's my"
- [Ella] Yeah.
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[Dennis] I said, "These are fantastic,
Tish Go do some more"
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[Tender music]
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[Music subsides]
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[Ethel] Yeah, you know,
she recognised beauty.
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But in fact, to me, the photographs
that are the ones that.
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It's the ones of childhood - [Ella] Yeah.
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And it's to do with childhood It's not
to do with poverty, it's not to do with.
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You know, it's
That's where the joy comes from.
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Your mother wanted to learn
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how to take photographs
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with a specific
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idea in mind.
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You know, she wanted to document.
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She wanted a photograph to use
as evidence and proof
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to make people's lives better,
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or to stop injustices
and that type of thing.
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She wasn't interested
in the rest of the bollocks, and.
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- [Ethel chuckles]
- Dennis was subversive, shall we say
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I mean, for instance,
when we did the studio portraiture,
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it was a lot more free
than it was probably meant to be.
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The problem was
that the course she was on wasn't
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a course that she should have been on,
to be honest.
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- [Ella] Oh Why not?
- Because it was too
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it was too specifically commercial,
which did not include documentary.
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So, I did bend the course a little bit.
240
00:14:40,721 --> 00:14:43,121
- [Ella] This is from Well, it's.
- School report? Oh, no!
241
00:14:43,321 --> 00:14:44,921
Oh my God,
242
00:14:45,121 --> 00:14:48,121
"I intended to take pictures
of the cemetery railings"
243
00:14:48,321 --> 00:14:50,921
[Tish] " but the caretaker
locked the gates."
244
00:14:51,041 --> 00:14:52,961
"This meant I could only take pictures"
245
00:14:53,081 --> 00:14:55,641
"of the cemetery railings from one angle"
246
00:14:55,761 --> 00:14:57,921
[Sombre music]
"So, I decided to take the pictures"
247
00:14:58,041 --> 00:15:00,641
"of the railings around the tomb"
248
00:15:00,721 --> 00:15:03,281
"I thought that
the wrought iron patterns on the rail"
249
00:15:03,401 --> 00:15:04,961
"were very like funeral urns"
250
00:15:05,081 --> 00:15:07,881
"that went very well with the object
they were enclosing."
251
00:15:09,601 --> 00:15:12,441
"On 12A and 13A,"
252
00:15:12,561 --> 00:15:14,561
"this is what I was trying to show."
253
00:15:14,681 --> 00:15:18,801
"The other shots were taken
to show the different angles"
254
00:15:18,921 --> 00:15:21,801
"but the pictures did not come out
as I expected."
255
00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:24,161
"They seemed blurred,
and not sharp enough to show"
256
00:15:24,281 --> 00:15:26,241
"the harshness of the subject"
257
00:15:26,361 --> 00:15:28,841
[Music subsides]
258
00:15:28,961 --> 00:15:30,841
[Dennis] She was true to herself
259
00:15:31,041 --> 00:15:34,401
and she was true to the medium, and
260
00:15:34,521 --> 00:15:38,801
she was brilliant,
she was very, very good.
261
00:15:38,921 --> 00:15:42,521
It was like she was born
with a silver camera in her hand.
262
00:15:42,641 --> 00:15:44,521
[Wistful music]
263
00:15:57,561 --> 00:15:59,481
[Music subsides]
264
00:15:59,601 --> 00:16:01,161
[Chris] Well, I liked her work.
265
00:16:01,361 --> 00:16:03,177
A lot of it centered around
members of her family.
266
00:16:03,201 --> 00:16:05,921
And they were
the tough end of working-class life.
267
00:16:06,121 --> 00:16:08,921
And so, she just photographed them,
and the penny dropped later
268
00:16:09,041 --> 00:16:12,241
that what they had in common
was "unemployed", you know?
269
00:16:12,361 --> 00:16:14,881
And they were in her neighbourhood.
270
00:16:15,081 --> 00:16:19,161
They were good, they were intimate,
they were strong, and they were powerful.
271
00:16:19,361 --> 00:16:21,481
They were like her.
272
00:16:23,361 --> 00:16:26,161
She was very brave 'round here,
I'll tell you
273
00:16:26,281 --> 00:16:30,081
I mean, people with cameras 'round
here are normally people from the DSS.
274
00:16:30,201 --> 00:16:32,961
- [Ella chuckles]
- Or the local police force or whatever.
275
00:16:33,161 --> 00:16:35,601
People become very suspicious
276
00:16:35,721 --> 00:16:38,601
I mean, she took a few chances.
277
00:16:39,881 --> 00:16:44,561
The fact is that people knew
she was Tish Murtha,
278
00:16:44,681 --> 00:16:47,481
probably allowed her
a little bit more credence.
279
00:16:47,601 --> 00:16:49,561
- A bit more leeway, yeah.
- [She chuckles]
280
00:16:50,761 --> 00:16:53,321
[Eileen] She was one of us,
you know, one of the kids.
281
00:16:53,441 --> 00:16:55,841
Because of where we lived,
282
00:16:56,041 --> 00:16:59,041
you couldn't just be a passive bystander.
283
00:16:59,161 --> 00:17:01,041
You had to be involved.
284
00:17:01,161 --> 00:17:05,361
She kind of honed her eye, if you like.
285
00:17:05,481 --> 00:17:08,281
And because she was
a very determined person,
286
00:17:08,481 --> 00:17:11,641
she wasn't going to be told that,
287
00:17:11,761 --> 00:17:15,761
"Well, you need to take pretty pictures"
or, "That's what a camera's for."
288
00:17:15,881 --> 00:17:17,681
She knew, you know,
289
00:17:17,801 --> 00:17:21,121
that what was in front of her was
290
00:17:21,241 --> 00:17:23,361
you know, as important - [Ella] Yeah
291
00:17:23,481 --> 00:17:26,001
as anything
292
00:17:26,121 --> 00:17:29,161
I think she knew that this was as valid
293
00:17:29,281 --> 00:17:31,881
as any book you picked up and looked at,
294
00:17:32,001 --> 00:17:34,481
that what she was seeing in front of her
was our life,
295
00:17:34,601 --> 00:17:37,641
and it needed to give it a value, you know.
296
00:17:37,761 --> 00:17:40,401
- [Ella] Yeah.
- [Eileen] to put it there and say,
297
00:17:40,601 --> 00:17:43,681
you know,
"We are here," you know, "We are.
298
00:17:43,801 --> 00:17:46,441
- "We have a value, you know?"
- [Ella] Definitely.
299
00:17:48,361 --> 00:17:50,401
[Dennis] You couldn't go
anywhere in this country
300
00:17:50,521 --> 00:17:52,881
and do documentary photography.
301
00:17:53,081 --> 00:17:55,041
There was a magazine in those days,
302
00:17:55,161 --> 00:17:57,337
a photograph magazine called
The British Journal of Photography,
303
00:17:57,361 --> 00:18:00,441
and loads of courses
were advertised in there.
304
00:18:00,561 --> 00:18:02,521
And I must have, somehow or other,
305
00:18:02,721 --> 00:18:05,201
seen this thing
about Newport College of Art.
306
00:18:05,321 --> 00:18:08,161
- Here we go Are you ready for this?
- [Dennis] Oh, my.
307
00:18:08,281 --> 00:18:11,441
So, this Have a look at this Just.
308
00:18:13,321 --> 00:18:14,881
"Be at Newport College of Art"
309
00:18:15,081 --> 00:18:17,801
"and ask for David Hurn or John Charity"
310
00:18:17,921 --> 00:18:20,041
"on Tuesday the 25th of May."
311
00:18:20,241 --> 00:18:22,001
"Good luck, Dennis."
312
00:18:22,121 --> 00:18:24,081
Oh, wow Good grief [Ella chuckles]
313
00:18:27,001 --> 00:18:28,921
[David Hurn] I remember Tish very clearly.
314
00:18:29,121 --> 00:18:31,881
She was the shortest interview
there'd ever been.
315
00:18:32,001 --> 00:18:33,761
Because she came in,
the first question was,
316
00:18:33,881 --> 00:18:36,761
"Why do you want to be
What do you want to photograph?"
317
00:18:36,881 --> 00:18:38,801
And she literally did say,
318
00:18:38,921 --> 00:18:42,121
"I want to photograph
policemen kicking kids," you know?
319
00:18:42,241 --> 00:18:43,561
And I said, "You're in"
320
00:18:43,761 --> 00:18:45,721
[Birdsong, Wind rushes softly]
321
00:18:45,841 --> 00:18:47,761
[David Swidenbank]
It was a bit strange, really.
322
00:18:47,881 --> 00:18:49,801
We all turned up at college
that first morning,
323
00:18:49,921 --> 00:18:53,721
and she was a bit sort of concerned
as to where she was
324
00:18:53,841 --> 00:18:56,561
going to sort of plonk everything,
I think, more than anything else.
325
00:18:56,761 --> 00:19:00,201
And I seem to remember saying to her then,
"Where are you staying?"
326
00:19:00,321 --> 00:19:02,961
'Cause everybody I was relatively local.
327
00:19:03,081 --> 00:19:06,601
And your mother sort of said, "Well, I
don't know yet I'm still working on it".
328
00:19:06,801 --> 00:19:10,201
And I got the impression,
I think, that what her ultimate plan was
329
00:19:10,321 --> 00:19:12,961
that when everybody had gone,
she would have probably found
330
00:19:13,081 --> 00:19:16,201
a corner in the darkroom somewhere
and settled down
331
00:19:16,321 --> 00:19:18,401
I suggested to her
that I had a spare room,
332
00:19:18,521 --> 00:19:21,441
that she was quite welcome
to come and stay.
333
00:19:21,641 --> 00:19:23,161
This camera here - [David Hurn] Yeah.
334
00:19:23,281 --> 00:19:25,081
- So, this is my mam's OM-1
- Yeah, yeah, yeah
335
00:19:25,121 --> 00:19:27,561
- that she bought on hire purchase.
- Yeah, yes
336
00:19:27,681 --> 00:19:29,801
from Dixons Newport - Yeah, yes
337
00:19:30,001 --> 00:19:32,081
in November, 1976.
338
00:19:32,201 --> 00:19:34,121
Yeah - And you were her guarantor.
339
00:19:34,241 --> 00:19:36,801
- Oh!
- [He laughs cheerfully]
340
00:19:36,921 --> 00:19:41,881
God, that was dangerous
"£189" How sweet.
341
00:19:42,081 --> 00:19:44,881
Well, that was
one of the most sensible things I did.
342
00:19:46,521 --> 00:19:49,761
I set up this sort of pattern of working
343
00:19:49,881 --> 00:19:54,161
by which you worked with a single person
344
00:19:54,281 --> 00:19:56,121
and then a relationship between people
345
00:19:56,241 --> 00:19:58,281
I had what was called
an establishing shot
346
00:19:58,481 --> 00:20:00,161
I've seen it on the contact sheets, yeah.
347
00:20:00,281 --> 00:20:04,201
If you look at
the John Ford movie Stagecoach,
348
00:20:04,321 --> 00:20:08,001
the film opens up with a big landscape,
349
00:20:08,121 --> 00:20:10,401
actually in Arizona,
350
00:20:10,521 --> 00:20:14,121
and it's this little, tiny stagecoach
going down That's an establishing shot.
351
00:20:14,321 --> 00:20:16,241
It tells you where the film.
352
00:20:16,361 --> 00:20:19,201
The film is taking place out there.
353
00:20:19,321 --> 00:20:22,081
And then it goes in
and it shows you the stagecoach,
354
00:20:22,281 --> 00:20:26,401
and then it goes in
and you see the close-up of John Wayne.
355
00:20:26,601 --> 00:20:29,921
All I was doing
was teaching them how to do that
356
00:20:30,041 --> 00:20:31,961
with any story you did.
357
00:20:32,161 --> 00:20:34,601
And what was good was
she didn't fight me on this.
358
00:20:34,801 --> 00:20:37,201
- Did she fight you on much stuff?
- Yeah, nearly everything.
359
00:20:37,281 --> 00:20:39,721
But just because she was her.
360
00:20:39,841 --> 00:20:43,841
She obviously felt most comfortable
if she felt she was having a say.
361
00:20:44,041 --> 00:20:46,961
[Ella] Okay - and I loved that.
362
00:20:47,161 --> 00:20:49,241
You see, this is
363
00:20:49,361 --> 00:20:52,481
so typical of her, in that
364
00:20:52,601 --> 00:20:56,241
she would seemingly be
this abrasive person,
365
00:20:56,441 --> 00:20:59,161
but she was the person
that was keeping her files.
366
00:20:59,281 --> 00:21:01,001
- [Ella chuckles]
- and captioning
367
00:21:01,121 --> 00:21:03,321
and doing all that back at home.
368
00:21:04,721 --> 00:21:06,961
She was quite a firebrand, I suppose,
369
00:21:07,081 --> 00:21:09,041
and you could tell that straight away.
370
00:21:09,161 --> 00:21:10,881
You know, there was no messing about.
371
00:21:11,081 --> 00:21:13,041
It's reflected in her work, isn't it?
372
00:21:13,161 --> 00:21:16,201
It's very gritty and very to-the-point.
373
00:21:16,321 --> 00:21:18,161
But what I think impressed me was that
374
00:21:18,361 --> 00:21:20,697
there must have been quite a few people
that she photographed
375
00:21:20,721 --> 00:21:24,121
that would have said, "No," you know,
"I don't want to be photographed".
376
00:21:24,321 --> 00:21:27,481
But there was no sort of barrier.
377
00:21:29,281 --> 00:21:31,801
[Daisy] We just got completely
378
00:21:31,921 --> 00:21:34,481
taken over by doing documentary work.
379
00:21:34,681 --> 00:21:37,001
We shot about 20 rolls of film a week,
380
00:21:37,121 --> 00:21:41,641
and we had to go out and do
a portrait of a worker or something.
381
00:21:41,681 --> 00:21:44,321
We'd all be going out doing lollipop ladies
382
00:21:44,441 --> 00:21:48,721
and street cleaners,
and going into schools and everything.
383
00:21:48,921 --> 00:21:51,561
And Tish went down and went into pubs.
384
00:21:51,681 --> 00:21:53,961
That was her home ground.
385
00:21:54,081 --> 00:21:56,761
And I suppose that's what struck me
straight away,
386
00:21:56,881 --> 00:21:59,481
that this was someone who had an agenda.
387
00:21:59,681 --> 00:22:01,721
[Ruminative music]
388
00:22:40,241 --> 00:22:42,081
[Music subsides]
389
00:22:42,281 --> 00:22:44,641
At the end of the course
was the Queen's Jubilee.
390
00:22:44,761 --> 00:22:46,241
[Ella chuckles]
391
00:22:46,361 --> 00:22:49,001
So, we all had to take pictures
to do with it.
392
00:22:50,281 --> 00:22:52,817
[David Swidenbank] At first,
your mother was not interested at all.
393
00:22:52,841 --> 00:22:54,601
- [Ella chuckles]
- So, we did spend a while
394
00:22:54,721 --> 00:22:57,641
sort of persuading her to come round.
395
00:22:57,841 --> 00:23:01,761
If you sort of work down a list
of the things that the Jubilee did,
396
00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:05,201
street parties
were obviously quite a strong.
397
00:23:05,321 --> 00:23:08,921
And you could break that down
into, then, posh street parties,
398
00:23:09,041 --> 00:23:11,801
middle-class street parties
and working-class street parties.
399
00:23:12,001 --> 00:23:15,281
And clearly that suddenly became
what, in fact, she did.
400
00:23:15,481 --> 00:23:17,881
[Stirring music]
401
00:24:14,641 --> 00:24:17,041
[Music concludes]
402
00:24:18,321 --> 00:24:21,521
- So, how did Tish make you feel?
- [He chuckles]
403
00:24:21,641 --> 00:24:24,401
I think probably jealous, to certain extent.
404
00:24:24,521 --> 00:24:26,601
- [Ella] Really?
- Yeah, because, I mean
405
00:24:26,721 --> 00:24:28,761
her work was what
406
00:24:28,881 --> 00:24:30,761
the course was about.
407
00:24:30,961 --> 00:24:32,881
One important thing that David taught us,
408
00:24:33,001 --> 00:24:34,921
you had to get empathy with your subject.
409
00:24:35,121 --> 00:24:38,321
Her background
obviously helped her do that.
410
00:24:38,441 --> 00:24:42,121
And she had an opportunity
to show the rest of the world, I think,
411
00:24:42,321 --> 00:24:45,521
what life was really like.
412
00:24:47,801 --> 00:24:51,761
She had a wonderful picture of a couple
413
00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:54,961
who were a disadvantaged couple
who were sleeping on the street.
414
00:24:55,161 --> 00:24:58,921
And it's so tender It is so tender.
415
00:24:59,041 --> 00:25:01,481
[Birdsong]
416
00:25:01,681 --> 00:25:04,801
She had a passion,
and she knew what she wanted to do.
417
00:25:06,001 --> 00:25:08,521
You can't teach somebody
how to have passion.
418
00:25:08,641 --> 00:25:10,761
[Ruminative music]
419
00:25:22,161 --> 00:25:23,881
[Music subsides]
420
00:25:24,001 --> 00:25:26,257
[Ella] Were you in Newcastle
when she came back from Wales?
421
00:25:26,281 --> 00:25:27,721
[Eileen] Yeah, yeah.
422
00:25:27,921 --> 00:25:30,257
- Did you notice a difference in her then?
- Absolutely, yes.
423
00:25:30,281 --> 00:25:31,881
And there was so much going on
424
00:25:32,001 --> 00:25:34,001
politically at that time as well,
wasn't there?
425
00:25:34,121 --> 00:25:36,401
- [Ella] Yeah.
- You know, there was a whole generation
426
00:25:36,521 --> 00:25:40,361
of disenfranchised and disaffected
427
00:25:40,481 --> 00:25:42,161
young people who had nothing.
428
00:25:42,361 --> 00:25:45,281
There were so many hurdles on the way up,
429
00:25:45,401 --> 00:25:47,361
to her getting to that point - [Ella] Mm.
430
00:25:47,481 --> 00:25:49,961
[Eileen] The address alone,
the area we lived in,
431
00:25:50,081 --> 00:25:52,121
was a no-no, it was a block.
432
00:25:53,361 --> 00:25:55,121
It seemed that
433
00:25:55,241 --> 00:25:59,241
okay, she'd made a step
and gone beyond Elswick,
434
00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:02,281
and I think she needed
to learn the technical things
435
00:26:02,401 --> 00:26:04,361
and she needed to perfect that
436
00:26:04,561 --> 00:26:08,601
and know how to create a beautiful image,
to give it a nice finish, and.
437
00:26:08,801 --> 00:26:11,121
But the actual content
438
00:26:11,241 --> 00:26:14,081
she knew already because she'd lived it.
439
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:18,641
[Woman, on radio] Last month,
vickers Management announced its intention
440
00:26:18,761 --> 00:26:21,401
to close its Scotswood factory
in Newcastle,
441
00:26:21,521 --> 00:26:24,281
putting almost 800 jobs at risk.
442
00:26:25,841 --> 00:26:28,441
The workers lodged a campaign
to oppose the closure
443
00:26:28,561 --> 00:26:30,521
and issued a list of demands,
444
00:26:30,641 --> 00:26:34,881
including clarification on how
the decision to close the factory was made
445
00:26:35,001 --> 00:26:38,961
and disclosure of what discussions
have taken place with the government
446
00:26:39,081 --> 00:26:41,761
for financial support and new investment.
447
00:26:41,961 --> 00:26:45,321
Yesterday morning,
the workers took over the factory,
448
00:26:45,441 --> 00:26:49,361
locking the doors and gates
to stage a sit-in protest.
449
00:26:49,481 --> 00:26:51,881
[Sombre, slow music]
450
00:26:59,321 --> 00:27:02,961
[Tish] "I don't like the term
'community photographer '".
451
00:27:03,081 --> 00:27:06,121
"Makes me think of middle-class trendies."
452
00:27:07,361 --> 00:27:09,801
"My use of photography
and my approach to it"
453
00:27:09,921 --> 00:27:11,881
"is based on the conviction"
454
00:27:12,001 --> 00:27:14,401
"that the fundamental value of the medium"
455
00:27:14,521 --> 00:27:18,721
"is its capacity to provide
direct, accurate and vital records"
456
00:27:18,841 --> 00:27:21,801
"of the conditions, events and experience"
457
00:27:21,921 --> 00:27:24,161
"that shape our lives."
458
00:27:26,881 --> 00:27:29,241
"I've been documenting
the human effects of unemployment"
459
00:27:29,361 --> 00:27:31,641
"and the unsuccessful campaign
against the closure"
460
00:27:31,761 --> 00:27:34,081
"of Vickers Scotswood Works."
461
00:27:35,881 --> 00:27:39,121
"I hope it shows
the effects of unemployment on men"
462
00:27:39,241 --> 00:27:41,521
"and its repercussions on society."
463
00:27:44,041 --> 00:27:48,441
"I think it's a strong exhibition,
and can raise a few issues"
464
00:27:49,801 --> 00:27:51,801
[Music builds]
465
00:28:08,881 --> 00:28:10,881
[Music builds further]
466
00:28:32,681 --> 00:28:34,681
[Music continues]
467
00:29:01,761 --> 00:29:03,761
[Music continues]
468
00:29:05,761 --> 00:29:08,281
[Music subsides, Rowdy singing]
469
00:29:08,401 --> 00:29:10,121
? to see the Blaydon Races
470
00:29:10,241 --> 00:29:14,081
? Oh, me lads,
you should've seen us gannin'
471
00:29:14,201 --> 00:29:18,241
? Passing the folks along the road
Just as they were stannin'
472
00:29:18,361 --> 00:29:20,281
? There was lots o' lads and lasses there
473
00:29:20,401 --> 00:29:22,681
? All with smiling faces
474
00:29:22,801 --> 00:29:26,681
? Gannin' along the Scotswood Road.
475
00:29:26,801 --> 00:29:30,921
# To see the Blaydon Races #
476
00:29:31,161 --> 00:29:33,241
[Lively chatter]
477
00:30:01,841 --> 00:30:04,001
[Chatter continues]
478
00:30:04,121 --> 00:30:05,961
[Chatter subsides]
479
00:30:06,081 --> 00:30:07,361
[Ethel] She was frightening.
480
00:30:07,561 --> 00:30:09,417
- Frightening?
- Your mother was a bit scary, yeah.
481
00:30:09,441 --> 00:30:11,281
Was she? She was only a tiny little thing.
482
00:30:11,481 --> 00:30:15,281
[Ethel] I remember her telling me
that the management had taken chisels
483
00:30:15,481 --> 00:30:18,801
to the last two dates on the equipment,
so the people couldn't say,
484
00:30:18,921 --> 00:30:21,641
"Well, you know, no wonder
the bloody factory isn't efficient"
485
00:30:21,761 --> 00:30:24,601
"because you haven't actually changed this
since 1932"
486
00:30:27,681 --> 00:30:31,361
[Chris] Tish was firmly of the left
Yeah, unabashedly of the left.
487
00:30:31,481 --> 00:30:35,841
And she did work
for different unions at different times.
488
00:30:35,961 --> 00:30:38,441
Not to get paid, but just to help them.
489
00:30:38,641 --> 00:30:40,561
She was committed
She was a committed individual.
490
00:30:40,601 --> 00:30:42,801
She was committed
to working-class struggle,
491
00:30:42,921 --> 00:30:45,281
which is continuous and never-ending.
492
00:30:45,401 --> 00:30:47,921
[Sombre, resonant music]
493
00:31:11,521 --> 00:31:14,441
[Music subsides]
494
00:31:14,561 --> 00:31:17,681
[Chris] She came from a family
with a fierce reputation.
495
00:31:17,801 --> 00:31:21,121
Her brothers were pretty tough, you know
You didn't argue with Tish Murtha
496
00:31:21,321 --> 00:31:24,321
'cause you didn't want her brothers
going after you, that's for sure.
497
00:31:24,441 --> 00:31:26,281
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
498
00:31:26,401 --> 00:31:28,641
And certainly, you didn't want
her dad chasing you.
499
00:31:28,761 --> 00:31:31,441
Oh, God, no Yeah [He chuckles]
500
00:31:31,641 --> 00:31:37,081
[Music - "Vissi d'arte" by Maria Callas]
? Nell'ora del dolore
501
00:31:37,281 --> 00:31:43,921
# Perché, perché, Signore #
502
00:31:44,121 --> 00:31:51,041
? Perché me ne rimuneri
503
00:31:51,241 --> 00:31:54,521
# Così? #
504
00:31:54,641 --> 00:31:57,801
[Eileen] In the background of our life,
there was always this
505
00:31:57,921 --> 00:32:00,841
opera, you know, all these romantic arias.
506
00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:03,801
[Ella] Yeah - So, that actually
507
00:32:03,921 --> 00:32:07,161
- really sort of heightened the tension.
- [Ella] The tension.
508
00:32:08,441 --> 00:32:10,281
[Eileen] There was all this
509
00:32:10,401 --> 00:32:12,441
you know, sort of aggro,
510
00:32:12,561 --> 00:32:15,761
and you're not knowing whether,
when you came in,
511
00:32:15,961 --> 00:32:17,537
what you were going to have to deal with.
512
00:32:17,561 --> 00:32:19,321
[Ella] I don't know how my Nana did it.
513
00:32:19,441 --> 00:32:21,921
[Eileen] Some of the things
she put up with,
514
00:32:22,121 --> 00:32:23,721
other people would have gone, you know.
515
00:32:23,841 --> 00:32:26,081
- [Ella] Yeah.
- [Eileen] in spite of having children.
516
00:32:26,201 --> 00:32:28,441
But she stayed for us.
517
00:32:29,921 --> 00:32:32,481
[Mark] He was harsh with all his kids.
518
00:32:32,601 --> 00:32:35,081
He was a man of his time,
that's all I'm going to say.
519
00:32:35,281 --> 00:32:37,761
He was a man of his time.
520
00:32:54,321 --> 00:32:56,601
How do you get over
something like that, Carl?
521
00:33:02,681 --> 00:33:04,601
[Eileen] Even though
we were scared of him,
522
00:33:04,721 --> 00:33:06,841
we would challenge him - [Ella] Yeah.
523
00:33:07,041 --> 00:33:09,441
And it's always quite a dangerous
524
00:33:10,721 --> 00:33:13,521
place to be, because you don't know
525
00:33:13,641 --> 00:33:16,001
where you know,
you don't know where the line is.
526
00:33:16,201 --> 00:33:19,921
You know, I think he'd been quite violent
with my mother as well.
527
00:33:20,041 --> 00:33:23,961
So, he would line everybody up
and say, "Right, everybody, bend over".
528
00:33:24,081 --> 00:33:26,641
He used to like
to show people his control.
529
00:33:27,841 --> 00:33:29,521
'Cause he used to use the belt.
530
00:33:29,641 --> 00:33:33,441
Well, I know my mam had
she had some scars.
531
00:33:33,641 --> 00:33:36,961
God, yeah - She refused to cry.
532
00:33:37,081 --> 00:33:39,921
[Eileen] Yes Yeah, that's absolutely true.
533
00:33:40,041 --> 00:33:43,041
[Ella] I think it says
a lot about my mam's.
534
00:33:43,161 --> 00:33:45,121
[Eileen] Strength of character
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
535
00:33:45,321 --> 00:33:47,721
She wouldn't She wouldn't let him see.
536
00:33:49,841 --> 00:33:53,641
My grand a,
he had the fight with the council.
537
00:33:53,841 --> 00:33:56,401
He was threatened with rent arrears.
538
00:33:56,601 --> 00:33:58,961
- So, you were going to be evicted?
- [Eileen] Yeah, yeah.
539
00:33:59,161 --> 00:34:03,521
He said, "Well, that'll mean
my kids'll end up in care," sort of thing.
540
00:34:03,641 --> 00:34:05,681
You know, "Okay, go ahead and do it".
541
00:34:05,801 --> 00:34:08,201
And he called their bluff, and they did it.
542
00:34:08,401 --> 00:34:09,881
How old were you?
543
00:34:10,001 --> 00:34:12,081
[Eileen] I was four - Oh, my gosh.
544
00:34:12,201 --> 00:34:15,721
[Eileen] And Tish would have been six,
six and a half.
545
00:34:15,921 --> 00:34:19,161
We were taken to this huge place
546
00:34:19,281 --> 00:34:22,081
and told we had to be very quiet, and.
547
00:34:23,481 --> 00:34:25,801
We went in and we were lined up.
548
00:34:25,921 --> 00:34:29,321
- And then the nuns all came and.
- [Ella] God
549
00:34:29,441 --> 00:34:31,481
- chose which ones they wanted.
- [Ella exhales]
550
00:34:31,601 --> 00:34:33,641
You know,
"I'll have this one, I'll have that one".
551
00:34:33,761 --> 00:34:36,281
So, we were we were separated.
552
00:34:36,481 --> 00:34:41,161
They were cruel, they were very cruel
You know, horrible
553
00:34:41,281 --> 00:34:42,841
quite violent women, they were.
554
00:34:43,041 --> 00:34:46,081
And the funny thing about it,
and probably Tish is just the same,
555
00:34:46,201 --> 00:34:51,921
I hadn't realised I was really alive
properly until that moment, you know?
556
00:34:52,041 --> 00:34:54,441
[Sombre music]
557
00:35:03,361 --> 00:35:05,281
[Music subsides]
558
00:35:05,401 --> 00:35:07,521
[Chris] She was a very determined person.
559
00:35:07,641 --> 00:35:10,681
She'd come from
the School of Hard Knocks, basically,
560
00:35:10,881 --> 00:35:13,161
and I was involved
with Side Gallery at the time,
561
00:35:13,281 --> 00:35:15,481
and helped get a commission for Tish
562
00:35:15,601 --> 00:35:18,161
to photograph juvenile jazz bands.
563
00:35:18,361 --> 00:35:20,641
[Imposing music]
564
00:35:25,521 --> 00:35:29,161
[Tish] "Although the regimentation
and discipline of the Second World War"
565
00:35:29,281 --> 00:35:31,241
"and its accompanying boom in industry"
566
00:35:31,361 --> 00:35:33,561
"encouraged a decline,"
567
00:35:33,681 --> 00:35:36,241
"jazz bands have re-entered the scene"
568
00:35:36,361 --> 00:35:39,281
"and re-establish themselves in new form,"
569
00:35:39,401 --> 00:35:41,281
"mainly in the areas"
570
00:35:41,401 --> 00:35:44,881
"where economic and social deprivation
are the norm."
571
00:35:46,001 --> 00:35:49,601
"These pictures were taken
in the west end of Newcastle,"
572
00:35:49,721 --> 00:35:54,641
"an area categorized by and noted for
its inadequate facilities,"
573
00:35:54,761 --> 00:35:59,241
"including everything from housing
to public telephones."
574
00:35:59,361 --> 00:36:02,681
"Children's leisure activities
are no exception,"
575
00:36:02,801 --> 00:36:06,561
"and the jazz band reigns supreme,"
576
00:36:06,681 --> 00:36:09,961
"as much a feature of the area
as the high-rise flats"
577
00:36:10,081 --> 00:36:13,121
"and the local dole office."
578
00:36:14,441 --> 00:36:16,841
"In addition to the official band,"
579
00:36:16,961 --> 00:36:19,641
"small groups of children who,
for various reasons,"
580
00:36:19,721 --> 00:36:21,601
"are not eligible for membership"
581
00:36:21,721 --> 00:36:26,081
"the jazz band rejects -
improvise toy bands."
582
00:36:26,281 --> 00:36:31,161
"These often start out
as an attempt to emulate the big band,"
583
00:36:31,281 --> 00:36:33,041
"but involve the child's imagination"
584
00:36:33,241 --> 00:36:35,761
"to almost the same extent"
585
00:36:35,881 --> 00:36:38,561
"as the official band denies it."
586
00:36:40,401 --> 00:36:45,001
"To be accepted into
and remain in the juvenile jazz band,"
587
00:36:45,121 --> 00:36:48,761
"a child must put aside
all normal behaviour"
588
00:36:48,881 --> 00:36:52,561
"and become the plaything
of the failed soldier,"
589
00:36:52,681 --> 00:36:55,801
"the ex-Armed Forces member and their ilk."
590
00:36:56,001 --> 00:36:58,361
"Any spark of individuality"
591
00:36:58,481 --> 00:37:01,521
"is crushed
by the military training imposed,"
592
00:37:01,641 --> 00:37:03,761
"until the child's actions resemble"
593
00:37:03,881 --> 00:37:06,281
"those of a mechanical tin soldier,"
594
00:37:06,401 --> 00:37:09,361
"acting out the confused fantasies"
595
00:37:09,481 --> 00:37:11,441
"of an older generation"
596
00:37:11,561 --> 00:37:13,521
[Music continues]
597
00:37:13,721 --> 00:37:17,801
[Tish] "A recent move
by local authorities in Newcastle"
598
00:37:17,921 --> 00:37:21,041
"gives jazz bands
the official seal of approval"
599
00:37:21,161 --> 00:37:24,081
"by the allocation of grants
from local funds,"
600
00:37:24,201 --> 00:37:27,401
"ensuring that, whatever the demand,"
601
00:37:27,521 --> 00:37:31,241
"these poor substitutes
for creative recreational activity"
602
00:37:31,361 --> 00:37:33,921
"are here to stay"
603
00:37:34,041 --> 00:37:36,561
"with a little help from the taxpayer"
604
00:37:36,681 --> 00:37:38,681
[Music continues]
605
00:37:49,681 --> 00:37:51,681
[Music concludes]
606
00:37:51,801 --> 00:37:53,841
She didn't like juvenile jazz bands.
607
00:37:53,961 --> 00:37:56,521
She thought it was
a complete waste of time and energy
608
00:37:56,641 --> 00:37:59,961
to blow in a kazoo when you could have
learned a musical instrument.
609
00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:02,921
It used to drive her mad, you know?
She hated it.
610
00:38:03,041 --> 00:38:08,121
But she knew it was part of the culture
of where she grew up.
611
00:38:08,321 --> 00:38:12,521
[Ethel] It was kind of like the view
that this was somehow creative.
612
00:38:12,641 --> 00:38:14,977
And Tish would go on and say,
"They're marching up and down there,"
613
00:38:15,001 --> 00:38:16,481
"it's like some bloody neo-fascist."
614
00:38:16,681 --> 00:38:19,881
And also, she kind of wasn't
very comfortable with the relationship
615
00:38:20,001 --> 00:38:22,841
between the people
who were training the young girls
616
00:38:22,961 --> 00:38:24,921
wearing extremely short skirts, you know?
617
00:38:25,041 --> 00:38:27,961
And looking back on it,
it is a bit kind of bizarre, isn't it?
618
00:38:28,081 --> 00:38:30,561
But I remember
writing a letter to the Evening Chronicle.
619
00:38:30,681 --> 00:38:33,961
Yeah, 'cause people all started writing in
calling her the Demon Snapper.
620
00:38:34,161 --> 00:38:37,321
- And I think you wrote in to defend her.
- Yeah, I did.
621
00:38:37,441 --> 00:38:40,001
[Contemplative music]
622
00:38:40,121 --> 00:38:43,401
[Tish] "In reply to letters
in Family Extra on April the 4th",
623
00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:47,761
"I would like to make it quite clear
I am not attacking individuals"
624
00:38:47,881 --> 00:38:50,841
"or specific juvenile 'jazz' bands."
625
00:38:52,401 --> 00:38:55,841
"Having observed the growth of these bands
throughout my childhood,"
626
00:38:55,961 --> 00:38:58,521
"I feel I'm as entitled as the next person"
627
00:38:58,641 --> 00:39:02,801
"to draw my own conclusion
based on these experiences,"
628
00:39:02,921 --> 00:39:05,121
"and I find the photographic medium"
629
00:39:05,241 --> 00:39:07,841
"a suitable vehicle for their expression."
630
00:39:09,121 --> 00:39:12,481
"The amount of controversy
generated by the exhibition"
631
00:39:12,601 --> 00:39:15,921
"has been as much a surprise to me
as to anyone else."
632
00:39:17,921 --> 00:39:20,081
"Since a discussion is now underway,
633
00:39:20,201 --> 00:39:22,961
"I would like to invite
any member of the public
634
00:39:23,081 --> 00:39:27,321
"to bring their views to a debate
scheduled for April the 25th at 7:30pm
635
00:39:27,441 --> 00:39:30,081
"at the Side Gallery.
636
00:39:30,201 --> 00:39:34,041
"Hopefully, the issue can be
thoroughly and fairly discussed.
637
00:39:35,361 --> 00:39:37,681
"Tish Murtha,
638
00:39:37,801 --> 00:39:40,081
- "the Demon Snapper"
- [Music subsides]
639
00:39:41,201 --> 00:39:43,297
She didn't come across as a person
that you would mess with.
640
00:39:43,321 --> 00:39:44,881
- Did she not?
- [She laughs]
641
00:39:45,001 --> 00:39:47,321
Not that easily, you know.
642
00:39:47,441 --> 00:39:51,161
No, she didn't mind upsetting people,
if it brought the agenda forward
643
00:39:51,361 --> 00:39:53,681
that it was militaristic,
that most of these bands were run
644
00:39:53,721 --> 00:39:57,401
by failed Sergeant Majors from the Army,
645
00:39:57,521 --> 00:40:00,241
bullying the kids
into being performing monkeys, really.
646
00:40:00,441 --> 00:40:03,601
It's very important
that people from within communities
647
00:40:03,721 --> 00:40:05,601
record their own community.
648
00:40:05,801 --> 00:40:09,721
If there's any bleakness in my work,
it was bleakness that I felt.
649
00:40:09,921 --> 00:40:12,761
You know,
the thing is with myself and your mam,
650
00:40:12,881 --> 00:40:15,137
you know, we were living
in these marginalized communities.
651
00:40:15,161 --> 00:40:17,961
We were part of the community,
which was a rare thing at the time.
652
00:40:18,081 --> 00:40:21,361
It's a different story when you're
actually from the place you're working in.
653
00:40:21,561 --> 00:40:24,801
You've got the mentality that you're
photographing your people, really.
654
00:40:24,921 --> 00:40:26,481
You're part of the tribe,
655
00:40:26,681 --> 00:40:30,361
and you're trying to do your best
to represent the tribe in the best way.
656
00:40:30,561 --> 00:40:33,401
You know, when I first saw
your mam's jazz band work,
657
00:40:33,601 --> 00:40:35,521
I was just amazed
how close she got in to people.
658
00:40:35,561 --> 00:40:38,641
She spent time with people,
which is obvious.
659
00:40:38,761 --> 00:40:41,441
You've got to invest a lot of time
actually getting to know people
660
00:40:41,561 --> 00:40:43,481
before you can get close to people
661
00:40:43,601 --> 00:40:46,041
and where the camera becomes
a secondary thing,
662
00:40:46,161 --> 00:40:49,801
you're just there as part of the crowd
and you're documenting things.
663
00:40:50,001 --> 00:40:52,161
She invested a lot of time in her work.
664
00:40:52,281 --> 00:40:54,361
She would spend months and months
665
00:40:54,481 --> 00:40:56,681
- photographing these kids in Elswick.
- [Ella chuckles]
666
00:40:56,761 --> 00:40:59,761
There's a photograph with a guy
with a cigarette hanging out his mouth,
667
00:40:59,881 --> 00:41:01,737
- he's playing cards and stuff like that.
- Yeah.
668
00:41:01,761 --> 00:41:04,721
[Mik] To take a photograph like that,
you've got to be there
669
00:41:04,841 --> 00:41:07,721
for a long, long time,
to study what's going on
670
00:41:07,921 --> 00:41:10,057
I would like to see the photographs
either side of that one.
671
00:41:10,081 --> 00:41:11,121
Mm.
672
00:41:11,321 --> 00:41:15,401
[Mik] Tish used to work on a body of work,
rather than just a single image,
673
00:41:15,521 --> 00:41:19,041
where you're building up a story,
you're building up the narrative,
674
00:41:19,161 --> 00:41:21,601
and you're bringing
all these characters in, you know,
675
00:41:21,801 --> 00:41:23,761
and it builds a wider picture,
676
00:41:23,881 --> 00:41:26,681
rather than just one single portrait.
677
00:41:26,881 --> 00:41:28,921
[Sombre, resonant music]
678
00:41:40,161 --> 00:41:43,361
[Music subsides]
679
00:41:43,481 --> 00:41:47,001
[Mark] I'd been sitting on our wall,
680
00:41:47,201 --> 00:41:49,161
the front of the house,
681
00:41:49,281 --> 00:41:51,401
just entertaining the kids as they went by.
682
00:41:51,601 --> 00:41:55,041
All the kids seemed to run over the road
and went in this direction.
683
00:41:55,161 --> 00:41:57,441
And when we got there, we saw these,
684
00:41:57,561 --> 00:42:00,681
my brothers
jumping out of the top window.
685
00:42:00,801 --> 00:42:05,161
That type of activity was all day long
Nothing else for them to do.
686
00:42:05,361 --> 00:42:08,281
- That is reality That's the way it was.
- [Ella] That was your life.
687
00:42:08,401 --> 00:42:11,321
And that's We're entitled to show it.
688
00:42:11,521 --> 00:42:13,321
[Birdsong]
689
00:42:13,441 --> 00:42:15,521
[Ella] What were you thinking about
on that wall?
690
00:42:18,441 --> 00:42:19,681
[Ella] Do you have a favourite?
691
00:42:30,361 --> 00:42:32,721
[Birdsong]
692
00:42:36,761 --> 00:42:39,921
I love this one of you
You're stunning, do you know, like.
693
00:42:40,081 --> 00:42:41,321
What was happening there, then?
694
00:42:48,241 --> 00:42:49,321
Yeah.
695
00:42:56,721 --> 00:42:59,201
[Ella] There you are "Handle With Care"
696
00:43:00,801 --> 00:43:02,561
[Both chuckle]
697
00:43:11,961 --> 00:43:14,121
[Ella] What did you want to do, then,
when you grew up?
698
00:43:15,881 --> 00:43:17,641
[Ella] You wanted to be an actor?
699
00:43:17,841 --> 00:43:21,641
"Carl was admitted to John Marley School
in September, 1977."
700
00:43:21,841 --> 00:43:25,081
"He is an honest young man,
and we have no hesitation"
701
00:43:25,201 --> 00:43:28,041
"in recommending him
for any position of trust."
702
00:43:28,241 --> 00:43:31,481
"This letter is intended to be shown
to prospective employers."
703
00:43:31,681 --> 00:43:32,881
And you were just.
704
00:43:34,201 --> 00:43:35,401
And you were sent out to just.
705
00:43:35,721 --> 00:43:37,201
It's just slave labour.
706
00:43:52,721 --> 00:43:55,241
[Mark] It was a Thatcherite scheme
707
00:43:55,441 --> 00:43:57,881
to take the numbers down
of the youth unemployed.
708
00:43:58,001 --> 00:44:00,041
It was a Youth Opportunity scheme.
709
00:44:00,241 --> 00:44:03,881
For your dole money,
you had to join a scheme
710
00:44:04,001 --> 00:44:06,481
that would do voluntary work
here and there.
711
00:44:06,601 --> 00:44:09,201
But that's all
you were ever going to be good for.
712
00:44:09,321 --> 00:44:12,161
You can see why
some of these kids turned to crime.
713
00:44:12,281 --> 00:44:15,921
They were forced onto these silly schemes
that led to nowhere.
714
00:44:16,121 --> 00:44:18,561
"We'll stop your money
if you don't go on it," you know?
715
00:44:18,681 --> 00:44:23,041
And treating them like they were
little children of serfdom.
716
00:44:24,561 --> 00:44:27,561
[Eileen] She was seeing
her brothers, particularly,
717
00:44:27,681 --> 00:44:29,521
who, literally, they were
718
00:44:29,721 --> 00:44:33,241
they were a forgotten generation
of young people.
719
00:44:33,441 --> 00:44:37,441
There was nothing for them
You were often sent for an interview,
720
00:44:37,561 --> 00:44:39,761
but soon as they knew
you were from Elswick,
721
00:44:39,881 --> 00:44:41,881
you didn't stand much chance.
722
00:44:44,561 --> 00:44:47,641
[Chris] Tish identified
with youth unemployment
723
00:44:47,761 --> 00:44:49,081
because she was unemployed.
724
00:44:49,281 --> 00:44:53,001
She knew exactly what was happening
to them, what a struggle it was.
725
00:44:53,121 --> 00:44:55,161
She was so angry about it.
726
00:44:55,281 --> 00:44:57,801
She [He stammers]
727
00:44:57,921 --> 00:45:00,281
She recorded her friends
in their struggles,
728
00:45:00,401 --> 00:45:02,961
these young kids
who couldn't get jobs, you know?
729
00:45:03,081 --> 00:45:05,441
They'd left school
without any qualifications,
730
00:45:05,561 --> 00:45:08,017
and if they had qualifications,
what job were they going to get?
731
00:45:08,041 --> 00:45:09,321
There were no jobs going.
732
00:45:10,681 --> 00:45:14,121
Where there is discord,
may we bring harmony.
733
00:45:14,241 --> 00:45:17,241
Where there is error, may we bring truth.
734
00:45:17,361 --> 00:45:20,321
Where there is doubt, may we bring faith.
735
00:45:20,441 --> 00:45:23,441
And where there is despair,
may we bring hope.
736
00:45:23,561 --> 00:45:24,881
[Switch clicks]
737
00:45:25,001 --> 00:45:27,241
[Ominous music]
738
00:45:56,481 --> 00:45:58,561
[Tish] "High levels of unemployment"
739
00:45:58,681 --> 00:46:01,081
"have always been
a hard and constant feature"
740
00:46:01,201 --> 00:46:03,721
"of life in the west end of Newcastle."
741
00:46:04,881 --> 00:46:07,801
"The area, built up in the 19th century"
742
00:46:07,921 --> 00:46:10,561
"on the basis of
heavy engineering and shipbuilding,"
743
00:46:10,681 --> 00:46:13,801
"once at the very centre of the economy,"
744
00:46:13,921 --> 00:46:15,921
"has been contending with
the accumulated effects"
745
00:46:16,041 --> 00:46:19,841
"of industrial decline and stagnation
for much of the century,"
746
00:46:19,961 --> 00:46:22,161
"and its physical symptoms are apparent"
747
00:46:22,281 --> 00:46:26,241
"in the area's general air
of dereliction and decay."
748
00:46:29,121 --> 00:46:31,481
"The official assessments
place the actual number"
749
00:46:31,601 --> 00:46:35,561
"out of work in this area at 1,700."
750
00:46:35,681 --> 00:46:38,841
"Over double the rate in comparison
with the rest of Newcastle."
751
00:46:40,561 --> 00:46:43,681
"Approximately 1,100 of these"
752
00:46:43,801 --> 00:46:46,321
"are under the age of 30."
753
00:46:46,441 --> 00:46:49,881
"Clearly a very serious situation."
754
00:46:51,201 --> 00:46:54,121
"Nevertheless, the Government's
Youth Opportunity Programme"
755
00:46:54,241 --> 00:46:56,441
"obscures the real situation,"
756
00:46:56,561 --> 00:47:00,081
"as those participating
are officially termed 'employed'"
757
00:47:00,201 --> 00:47:02,361
"and never enter the statistics"
758
00:47:02,481 --> 00:47:04,721
[Music continues]
759
00:47:06,041 --> 00:47:09,921
[Tish] "Carl Murtha
left school in summer, 1979"
760
00:47:10,041 --> 00:47:13,241
"with a number of qualifications,
an excellent reference
761
00:47:13,361 --> 00:47:15,641
"and an ambition to work in some capacity
762
00:47:15,761 --> 00:47:18,481
"with a drama workshop.
763
00:47:18,601 --> 00:47:20,521
"His experiences since then
764
00:47:20,641 --> 00:47:24,201
"have convinced him
that he and hundreds of others like him
765
00:47:24,321 --> 00:47:28,401
"will never be allowed to be anything more
than part of the growing reserves
766
00:47:28,521 --> 00:47:32,401
"of a fully-expendable
cheap labour market.
767
00:47:32,521 --> 00:47:37,321
"After six weeks of constant
searching for work to no avail,
768
00:47:37,441 --> 00:47:41,041
"Carl and his mate Cuddles,
from the same street,
769
00:47:41,161 --> 00:47:43,721
"received cards from the Career Centre,
770
00:47:43,841 --> 00:47:47,961
"which informed them that,
'An exciting opportunity has arisen.
771
00:47:48,081 --> 00:47:50,441
"" Report to this office at once '
772
00:47:51,601 --> 00:47:54,041
"They were asked to hand in these cards,"
773
00:47:54,161 --> 00:47:57,321
"and told to report
to the city's cleansing department,"
774
00:47:57,441 --> 00:47:59,361
"where they were officially introduced"
775
00:47:59,481 --> 00:48:02,081
"to the joys
of sweeping the Newcastle streets,"
776
00:48:02,201 --> 00:48:05,441
"one of the Manpower Services
Commission schemes"
777
00:48:05,561 --> 00:48:07,561
"of the YOP."
778
00:48:09,441 --> 00:48:12,201
"The main criticisms
of both lads on the scheme"
779
00:48:12,321 --> 00:48:16,041
"was not the small wage of £2055"
780
00:48:16,161 --> 00:48:19,641
"for 40 hours per week hard graft,"
781
00:48:19,761 --> 00:48:23,921
"usually in atrocious weather conditions,"
782
00:48:24,041 --> 00:48:26,641
"but the physical and mental bullying"
783
00:48:26,761 --> 00:48:29,401
"of the work's gaffers,"
784
00:48:29,521 --> 00:48:32,041
"one of whom had the strange habit"
785
00:48:32,161 --> 00:48:36,721
"of sticking brush shanks through
the dungarees of the smaller-built lads"
786
00:48:37,881 --> 00:48:40,641
"and hanging them from the nearest beam"
787
00:48:40,761 --> 00:48:45,441
"until he had the curious satisfaction
of seeing them burst into tears."
788
00:48:46,921 --> 00:48:48,761
"One lad in particular"
789
00:48:49,001 --> 00:48:51,681
"was singled out
for a stronger dose of this treatment."
790
00:48:51,801 --> 00:48:55,121
"He's now receiving psychiatric help."
791
00:48:55,241 --> 00:48:58,561
"The charge hand
responsible for the bullying"
792
00:48:58,681 --> 00:49:01,521
"has now joined the police force"
793
00:49:01,641 --> 00:49:04,361
[Music continues]
794
00:49:04,481 --> 00:49:09,041
[Tish] "Young people, already experiencing
the problems of adolescence",
795
00:49:09,161 --> 00:49:11,601
"are left to cope alone with a situation"
796
00:49:11,721 --> 00:49:15,641
"that their educational training
has not prepared them for,"
797
00:49:15,761 --> 00:49:19,001
"forcing them into a state
of premature redundancy"
798
00:49:19,201 --> 00:49:24,041
"the minute they pass through
the school gates for the last time."
799
00:49:24,161 --> 00:49:28,681
"What is becoming clear to the generation
now approaching maturity"
800
00:49:28,801 --> 00:49:33,241
"is that our society
has no solutions for their problems,"
801
00:49:33,361 --> 00:49:36,281
"can give no direction to their lives."
802
00:49:38,401 --> 00:49:41,561
"Unemployment
and all its associated deprivations"
803
00:49:41,681 --> 00:49:44,481
"are not only getting worse,"
804
00:49:44,601 --> 00:49:49,441
"but new technologies
threaten to make the situation permanent."
805
00:49:51,361 --> 00:49:55,721
"Behind empty, pathetic talk
of increased leisure opportunities"
806
00:49:55,841 --> 00:49:58,641
"and freedom from repetitive labour,"
807
00:49:58,761 --> 00:50:04,441
"stands the spectre of enforced idleness,
wasted resources"
808
00:50:04,561 --> 00:50:09,281
"and the squandering
of a whole generation of human potential"
809
00:50:09,481 --> 00:50:11,721
[Music continues]
810
00:50:11,841 --> 00:50:17,441
[Tish] "This is vandalism
on a grand scale"
811
00:50:17,641 --> 00:50:20,161
[Music continues]
812
00:50:21,721 --> 00:50:24,601
[Tish] "Hidden in a smokescreen
of cynical doubletalk"
813
00:50:24,721 --> 00:50:27,281
"and pious moralising,"
814
00:50:27,401 --> 00:50:30,281
"the shape of the future"
815
00:50:30,401 --> 00:50:34,121
"is nevertheless clearly discernible."
816
00:50:34,241 --> 00:50:36,401
"Cuts in social spending,"
817
00:50:36,521 --> 00:50:39,801
"including unemployment benefits,"
818
00:50:39,921 --> 00:50:45,601
"mean that the conditions under which
they must endure their enforced idleness"
819
00:50:45,721 --> 00:50:50,521
"will rapidly deteriorate
to become an intolerable burden,"
820
00:50:50,641 --> 00:50:54,041
"the consequences of which
will be enormous."
821
00:50:55,441 --> 00:50:57,681
"No established channels exist"
822
00:50:57,801 --> 00:51:01,721
"to represent or even acknowledge
the interests of those involved,"
823
00:51:01,841 --> 00:51:05,561
"and the failure of the political parties
and even the trade unions"
824
00:51:05,681 --> 00:51:09,641
"to contribute anything
other than platitudes to the situation"
825
00:51:09,761 --> 00:51:13,281
"increases the alienation
of the youth still further."
826
00:51:14,721 --> 00:51:16,801
"The intractable nature of this problem,"
827
00:51:16,921 --> 00:51:19,681
"intensified as it is
by the Thatcher government's"
828
00:51:19,801 --> 00:51:23,121
"extreme free market philosophy,"
829
00:51:23,321 --> 00:51:26,561
"opens up a period of bitter conflict,"
830
00:51:26,681 --> 00:51:29,761
"as young people
grow more and more frustrated,"
831
00:51:29,881 --> 00:51:33,081
"and refuse to accept
the logic of an economic system"
832
00:51:33,281 --> 00:51:37,361
"which deprives them of a productive
and meaningful future"
833
00:51:37,481 --> 00:51:40,641
[Music continues]
834
00:51:40,761 --> 00:51:44,241
[Tish] "It must never be forgotten"
835
00:51:44,361 --> 00:51:48,201
"that there are barbaric
and reactionary forces in our society,"
836
00:51:48,321 --> 00:51:51,521
"who, while having no intrinsic appeal
to the youth themselves,"
837
00:51:51,641 --> 00:51:54,681
"will not be slow to make political capital"
838
00:51:54,801 --> 00:51:56,841
"from an embittered youth,"
839
00:51:56,961 --> 00:51:59,041
"should the labour movement fail"
840
00:51:59,161 --> 00:52:02,961
"to give their search for new social,
economic and political values"
841
00:52:03,081 --> 00:52:06,361
"a positive and sustained direction"
842
00:52:06,561 --> 00:52:10,441
Tish Murtha May, 1980.
843
00:52:10,561 --> 00:52:12,601
[Music continues]
844
00:52:18,361 --> 00:52:20,321
- [Music concludes]
- [Ella] She was really angry.
845
00:52:26,721 --> 00:52:28,401
[Ella] Really?
846
00:52:32,401 --> 00:52:35,321
Obviously, you're her youngest brother
and she loved you very much,
847
00:52:35,441 --> 00:52:37,561
and she was so angry
848
00:52:37,681 --> 00:52:40,641
at what was happening to you
and all of your friends, do you know?
849
00:52:40,761 --> 00:52:42,881
The only thing she could do
to try and help you
850
00:52:42,921 --> 00:52:45,041
was to shine a light.
851
00:52:46,401 --> 00:52:48,641
I mean,
'cause it got talked about in Parliament.
852
00:53:06,881 --> 00:53:08,321
[Ella] So, did she break you?
853
00:53:09,841 --> 00:53:10,841
Good.
854
00:53:12,561 --> 00:53:14,561
[Sombre music]
855
00:53:21,801 --> 00:53:23,841
[Music subsides]
856
00:53:23,961 --> 00:53:26,097
[Ethel] There's this whole thing
about documentary photography,
857
00:53:26,121 --> 00:53:28,281
and it's about getting stuff published,
858
00:53:28,401 --> 00:53:32,441
as in, is it kind of like art when it's
in galleries? How does it fit in?
859
00:53:32,561 --> 00:53:35,521
You know,
so much of it is whether you do fit in,
860
00:53:35,641 --> 00:53:39,281
whether you hit the
Is it new? Is it different?
861
00:53:39,481 --> 00:53:42,961
Are you authentic?
Are you gritty enough?
862
00:53:43,161 --> 00:53:47,441
And your mother wasn't into
that type of stuff at all,
863
00:53:47,641 --> 00:53:49,601
do you know what I mean?
864
00:53:49,721 --> 00:53:52,681
[Mik] I think myself and Tish were
more or less seen as novelties, really.
865
00:53:52,881 --> 00:53:55,361
Both natives of the Northeast.
866
00:53:55,481 --> 00:53:58,241
And we were doing it for ourselves, really.
867
00:53:58,361 --> 00:54:01,881
Had I came from a different background,
I probably would have had more chance
868
00:54:02,001 --> 00:54:04,721
of breaking the so-called "art world".
869
00:54:04,841 --> 00:54:08,081
If you don't keep above a certain level
with exhibitions and stuff like that,
870
00:54:08,201 --> 00:54:09,841
it's very easy to drop out of it.
871
00:54:10,041 --> 00:54:12,361
For someone like Tish,
who was uncompromising,
872
00:54:12,481 --> 00:54:14,921
she would have found it
very difficult to toe the line.
873
00:54:15,121 --> 00:54:18,281
You've just got to have the determination
to see things through.
874
00:54:18,481 --> 00:54:21,641
[Chris] A lot of her good work
was done before any involvement
875
00:54:21,761 --> 00:54:23,881
with anything like Side Gallery
876
00:54:24,001 --> 00:54:26,121
I got support from Northern Arts,
877
00:54:26,241 --> 00:54:28,841
and I'd had support from
the Arts Council of Great Britain
878
00:54:28,961 --> 00:54:32,881
I can't remember Tish getting any support
from either of those bodies.
879
00:54:33,081 --> 00:54:36,241
[Sombre, steady music]
880
00:54:36,361 --> 00:54:38,761
[Tish] "Dear Dennis",
881
00:54:38,881 --> 00:54:42,281
"I left the Side Gallery,
for a number of reasons,"
882
00:54:42,401 --> 00:54:46,001
"but mainly because of their peculiar
attitude towards me and my work."
883
00:54:47,081 --> 00:54:50,441
"They wanted to manipulate it
to fit their group philosophy of,"
884
00:54:50,561 --> 00:54:53,281
"'Working-class culture
and poverty is beautiful, man '."
885
00:54:53,401 --> 00:54:55,961
"Oh, it's sickening."
886
00:54:56,081 --> 00:54:59,601
"On top of that, they wouldn't provide
adequate darkroom facilities"
887
00:54:59,721 --> 00:55:02,321
"to do the work they employed me to do."
888
00:55:02,441 --> 00:55:06,641
"And the boss's girlfriend was getting
really spiteful and bitchy towards us,"
889
00:55:06,761 --> 00:55:09,121
"damaging expensive photographic work"
890
00:55:09,241 --> 00:55:11,321
"by bursting into the darkroom,"
891
00:55:11,441 --> 00:55:14,721
"switching lights on,
accidentally on purpose."
892
00:55:16,761 --> 00:55:20,361
"So, as they obviously thought
it was all a big joke,"
893
00:55:20,481 --> 00:55:24,881
"and thought I should just be grateful
for any situation they offered,"
894
00:55:25,001 --> 00:55:27,201
"I told them where to stick the job,"
895
00:55:27,321 --> 00:55:31,561
"and what an offensive,
incestuous little clique they were."
896
00:55:33,881 --> 00:55:37,081
[Tish] "Anyway,
I won my case against them",
897
00:55:37,201 --> 00:55:40,761
"and got six weeks'
full dole benefit backdated"
898
00:55:41,001 --> 00:55:43,841
[Music continues]
899
00:55:43,961 --> 00:55:47,921
[Tish] "Financially,
things are a bit rough at the moment",
900
00:55:48,041 --> 00:55:51,081
"but I'm a damn sight happier
out of their clutches."
901
00:55:53,801 --> 00:55:57,641
"This photography world
and those who operate it"
902
00:55:57,761 --> 00:56:00,801
"really make you sick at times"
903
00:56:00,921 --> 00:56:02,921
[Music continues]
904
00:56:20,481 --> 00:56:22,721
[Music subsides]
905
00:56:22,841 --> 00:56:26,321
- She moved to London, I think, '82
- Yeah.
906
00:56:26,521 --> 00:56:28,321
[Daisy] I think so That's Karen.
907
00:56:28,441 --> 00:56:30,681
[Ella] And she was a dancer
wasn't she, from Canada?
908
00:56:30,801 --> 00:56:31,841
[Daisy] Yeah.
909
00:56:32,041 --> 00:56:34,121
[Ella] They were living in a shared house.
910
00:56:34,241 --> 00:56:36,921
My mam had got this commission
from the Photographers' Gallery
911
00:56:37,041 --> 00:56:39,801
to do this project
on Soho and sex workers.
912
00:56:39,921 --> 00:56:43,001
And Karen was working in Soho
So, they worked together,
913
00:56:43,121 --> 00:56:45,481
they collaborated - [Daisy] Yeah.
914
00:56:45,601 --> 00:56:47,881
[Pensive music]
915
00:56:50,801 --> 00:56:52,761
[Tish] "Dear Merylin",
916
00:56:52,881 --> 00:56:56,241
"Karen and I had tea
with three male prostitutes last Sunday,"
917
00:56:56,361 --> 00:56:59,321
"in a semi-detached house in Wimbledon,"
918
00:56:59,441 --> 00:57:02,841
"where we had cucumber sandwiches
with the crust removed."
919
00:57:02,961 --> 00:57:07,561
"Earl Grey tea, and indulged
in nothing but polite conversation."
920
00:57:07,681 --> 00:57:09,641
"It was most bizarre."
921
00:57:09,761 --> 00:57:12,921
"Anyway, we managed to behave ourselves"
922
00:57:13,041 --> 00:57:15,561
"and have been invited back."
923
00:57:15,681 --> 00:57:18,761
"Best wishes, Tish Murtha."
924
00:57:18,881 --> 00:57:21,441
"PS Soho going well."
925
00:57:21,561 --> 00:57:24,161
"Was working all night last Tuesday,"
926
00:57:24,281 --> 00:57:27,561
"but was chased off
by a transvestite with an axe."
927
00:57:27,761 --> 00:57:31,001
"Will try again 'cause I need the money"
928
00:57:31,121 --> 00:57:33,361
[Music continues]
929
00:57:33,481 --> 00:57:35,681
[Music subsides]
930
00:57:35,881 --> 00:57:40,001
I think I met your mum in London,
in Camden
931
00:57:40,121 --> 00:57:41,401
through Karen,
932
00:57:41,601 --> 00:57:46,001
and she was featured
in the nightlife, sort of Soho.
933
00:57:46,201 --> 00:57:48,721
So, we were sort of just out of college
934
00:57:48,841 --> 00:57:51,041
and just starting to work as an actor.
935
00:57:51,161 --> 00:57:53,201
And then these things we sort of developed
936
00:57:53,321 --> 00:57:55,561
so that we had some sort of income.
937
00:57:55,761 --> 00:57:58,641
We just clicked Had a good eye
938
00:57:58,761 --> 00:58:01,561
I knew she could take a good picture,
if you know what I mean.
939
00:58:01,761 --> 00:58:04,241
And then your mum
used to come with us on the circuit
940
00:58:04,361 --> 00:58:06,001
and she used to meet the girls.
941
00:58:07,961 --> 00:58:12,441
The circuit was about a dozen strip clubs
where all the girls would work.
942
00:58:12,561 --> 00:58:16,281
So, it was Mayfair and Soho,
and you'd start about
943
00:58:16,481 --> 00:58:18,761
8:00, 9:00,
and finish about 2:00 in the morning.
944
00:58:18,961 --> 00:58:20,241
Wow.
945
00:58:20,361 --> 00:58:24,201
You'd do ten minutes,
ten times or 12 times a night.
946
00:58:24,401 --> 00:58:26,321
A lot of them weren't licensed,
947
00:58:26,441 --> 00:58:29,041
but they'd have the punters
drinking non-alcoholic lager,
948
00:58:29,241 --> 00:58:34,121
not knowing that they were
drinking non-alcoholic lager.
949
00:58:34,321 --> 00:58:37,481
And then sometimes you'd go in and do
the act again after you'd done the circuit
950
00:58:37,601 --> 00:58:40,601
and it'd still be the same punter there,
with the hostess.
951
00:58:40,801 --> 00:58:44,681
But the actual exhibition
went down very well,
952
00:58:44,881 --> 00:58:47,921
and a lot of the girls on the circuit came.
953
00:58:48,121 --> 00:58:50,201
It was a celebration - [Ella] Yeah
954
00:58:50,321 --> 00:58:52,961
and the pictures were astounding.
955
00:58:53,161 --> 00:58:56,921
It was like an intimate look
into the other side of Soho.
956
00:58:57,041 --> 00:59:01,961
So, there were
prostitutes, strippers, punters.
957
00:59:02,081 --> 00:59:04,441
But nothing was posed - [Ella] No.
958
00:59:04,561 --> 00:59:08,961
[Philip] I think even there was
one of Karen outside the theatre,
959
00:59:09,081 --> 00:59:11,201
sort of standing against this light,
960
00:59:11,401 --> 00:59:13,201
and it sort of summed up.
961
00:59:13,321 --> 00:59:17,521
It was a rainy night in the West End,
you know, but people still work.
962
00:59:17,641 --> 00:59:20,201
[Laid-back music]
963
00:59:49,481 --> 00:59:51,481
[Music continues]
964
01:00:23,521 --> 01:00:25,521
[Music continues]
965
01:00:53,601 --> 01:00:55,601
[Music continues]
966
01:00:57,241 --> 01:00:59,241
[Music concludes, resonates]
967
01:01:01,201 --> 01:01:04,761
She was rushing around,
and, I mean, she was.
968
01:01:04,961 --> 01:01:07,961
You can see there
how skinny she was, do you know?
969
01:01:08,081 --> 01:01:10,361
And she said she'd gone to the doctors
970
01:01:10,561 --> 01:01:12,401
and she thought she was dying,
971
01:01:12,521 --> 01:01:14,881
and the doctor had recommended
that she drink,
972
01:01:15,001 --> 01:01:16,817
I think it was
half a pint of Guinness every night.
973
01:01:16,841 --> 01:01:20,721
So, she was drinking this Guinness,
and she wasn't really feeling any better.
974
01:01:20,921 --> 01:01:24,321
But she had gone back to this doctor,
and she was saying, "I think I'm dying,"
975
01:01:24,441 --> 01:01:27,601
and it turned out
she was pregnant with me.
976
01:01:27,801 --> 01:01:29,961
[Daisy] Your mum
got bigger and bigger with you.
977
01:01:30,081 --> 01:01:32,801
- [Ella chuckles]
- and we agreed
978
01:01:33,001 --> 01:01:35,521
that I could photograph your birth,
979
01:01:35,641 --> 01:01:40,081
and set up shop in the labour room
with her and Jimmy
980
01:01:40,281 --> 01:01:44,001
I've brought some contact sheets
that you made, to have a look at.
981
01:01:45,041 --> 01:01:46,961
They're so beautiful
982
01:01:47,081 --> 01:01:50,201
I can see why she wanted you to take them
983
01:01:50,321 --> 01:01:52,401
I mean, this.
984
01:01:52,521 --> 01:01:55,401
That's like - [Daisy] You emerging.
985
01:01:55,601 --> 01:01:58,601
- [Ella] Wow.
- [Daisy] With your little dark hair.
986
01:01:58,721 --> 01:02:03,001
For birth pictures, they're significant,
but they're not very pretty.
987
01:02:03,201 --> 01:02:06,161
[Ella] She loved them
I think my absolute favourite.
988
01:02:06,281 --> 01:02:08,161
- And it's, like, where, like.
- [Daisy] Oh, yes
989
01:02:08,201 --> 01:02:09,961
she's waiting to meet me.
990
01:02:10,161 --> 01:02:12,881
- And I just think the lighting.
- [Daisy] The lighting was terrific.
991
01:02:13,001 --> 01:02:15,681
- [Ella] She was so proud.
- [Daisy] Well, it was a lovely moment.
992
01:02:15,801 --> 01:02:19,041
And it was good that your dad came along,
993
01:02:19,161 --> 01:02:21,761
- 'cause Jimmy holding Tish.
- [Daisy groans]
994
01:02:21,881 --> 01:02:26,721
[Ella] I'm glad that, you know, she had
some support I'm glad you were there.
995
01:02:26,841 --> 01:02:29,521
[Daisy] All the time
your mum was pregnant,
996
01:02:29,641 --> 01:02:31,761
she knew she was going to have a boy.
997
01:02:31,881 --> 01:02:35,441
- You were going to be called Nimrod.
- [Daisy] Oh, my Why?!
998
01:02:35,641 --> 01:02:37,681
[Daisy] Well, Nimrod Variations, Elgar,
999
01:02:37,801 --> 01:02:41,481
you know,
her favourite classical musician.
1000
01:02:41,601 --> 01:02:44,281
But then you came out
and you were a little girl.
1001
01:02:44,401 --> 01:02:46,681
[Ella, Daisy chuckle]
1002
01:02:46,801 --> 01:02:48,801
[Wistful music]
1003
01:02:54,641 --> 01:02:57,521
[Music continues]
1004
01:02:57,641 --> 01:02:59,681
[Tish] "It's 9:00."
1005
01:02:59,801 --> 01:03:03,401
"It's very late for a baby girl to be awake."
1006
01:03:04,561 --> 01:03:06,761
"She should settle down now"
1007
01:03:06,881 --> 01:03:09,881
"or she'll never wake up
for Ramona and Dennis."
1008
01:03:11,561 --> 01:03:13,601
"Goodnight, dear Ella."
1009
01:03:14,681 --> 01:03:16,241
"I give you my heart"
1010
01:03:16,361 --> 01:03:18,121
[Music subsides]
1011
01:03:18,321 --> 01:03:20,281
And then once you were born,
1012
01:03:20,401 --> 01:03:23,361
you more or less became sort of a fixture
1013
01:03:23,481 --> 01:03:25,281
in our social life.
1014
01:03:25,481 --> 01:03:28,201
And it was Tish, and then Tish and Ella.
1015
01:03:28,321 --> 01:03:30,241
And "Tish and Ella" was almost one word.
1016
01:03:30,361 --> 01:03:32,801
[Ella] Yeah,
Tish and Ella against the world.
1017
01:03:33,001 --> 01:03:36,081
[Philip] And I just then became
your fairy godfather
1018
01:03:36,201 --> 01:03:39,521
I didn't want to be your godfather
'cause I'm not particularly religious.
1019
01:03:39,641 --> 01:03:43,801
So, that's why I decided
to be your fairy godfather.
1020
01:03:43,921 --> 01:03:46,201
And you were in and out
of the darkroom with her.
1021
01:03:46,321 --> 01:03:49,241
'Cause I can remember, when you were tiny,
you used to watch the photos.
1022
01:03:49,441 --> 01:03:50,961
And I used to watch her develop stuff.
1023
01:03:51,161 --> 01:03:52,921
- It was magical, wasn't it?
- [Philip] Yeah.
1024
01:03:54,201 --> 01:03:56,081
[Ella] I saw a statistic recently
1025
01:03:56,201 --> 01:04:01,041
80% of women
are in education about photography,
1026
01:04:01,241 --> 01:04:03,921
- but then actually working in it.
- [Daisy] Mm
1027
01:04:04,041 --> 01:04:06,161
it's only something like 15%.
1028
01:04:06,281 --> 01:04:10,201
And it's just interesting
to try and understand
1029
01:04:10,321 --> 01:04:13,921
why so many women can't make a go.
1030
01:04:14,041 --> 01:04:16,001
It's a very male-dominated.
1031
01:04:16,201 --> 01:04:18,921
Yeah, well, I think
1032
01:04:19,041 --> 01:04:22,241
I know I could've,
and I was capable of doing it,
1033
01:04:22,361 --> 01:04:25,121
but I couldn't with having a child,
1034
01:04:25,241 --> 01:04:27,881
'cause I couldn't work out
how to look after
1035
01:04:28,001 --> 01:04:30,081
you know, I couldn't afford a child-minder.
1036
01:04:30,281 --> 01:04:32,361
It just seems, though,
like, it's always women.
1037
01:04:32,481 --> 01:04:34,761
It's always women
who have to sacrifice their careers
1038
01:04:34,881 --> 01:04:36,801
I feel.
1039
01:04:36,921 --> 01:04:39,761
The time in my mam's life,
do you know, that she'd moved to London,
1040
01:04:39,961 --> 01:04:42,601
she was having that exhibition
at the Photographers' Gallery.
1041
01:04:42,721 --> 01:04:44,841
She was on the cusp of huge things.
1042
01:04:44,961 --> 01:04:47,361
- And obviously I wasn't planned.
- [Daisy] Mm
1043
01:04:47,561 --> 01:04:49,281
and I arrived,
1044
01:04:49,401 --> 01:04:52,201
and I've always felt really responsible,
1045
01:04:52,321 --> 01:04:54,041
do you know, because it's difficult.
1046
01:04:54,161 --> 01:04:56,601
You can't with a kid in tow,
when you're a single mam.
1047
01:04:56,801 --> 01:04:59,401
No, but
1048
01:04:59,521 --> 01:05:04,161
the other side is that Tish was given,
offered opportunities
1049
01:05:04,281 --> 01:05:06,161
I mean, everyone recognised her talent
1050
01:05:06,361 --> 01:05:08,561
I mean, I got her a job teaching.
1051
01:05:08,681 --> 01:05:10,641
Lasted half a day.
1052
01:05:10,761 --> 01:05:12,641
[Both laugh]
1053
01:05:12,761 --> 01:05:15,241
[Daisy] She wouldn't,
she couldn't compromise.
1054
01:05:15,361 --> 01:05:17,881
She had to be a photographer.
1055
01:05:18,001 --> 01:05:21,121
You know, like, the Side
often tried to sort of pull her in,
1056
01:05:21,241 --> 01:05:24,241
but she was really against them
and feeling they were.
1057
01:05:24,441 --> 01:05:27,281
She was always suspicious
that people were,
1058
01:05:27,401 --> 01:05:30,001
you know, using her - [Ella] Yeah.
1059
01:05:30,201 --> 01:05:32,641
She had been treated badly
by certain people.
1060
01:05:32,761 --> 01:05:35,801
And I think it does make it
it makes things difficult.
1061
01:05:35,921 --> 01:05:37,681
You know, she was suspicious.
1062
01:05:37,881 --> 01:05:40,481
And I just do feel
1063
01:05:40,601 --> 01:05:42,081
very responsible
1064
01:05:42,201 --> 01:05:44,081
I mean, I didn't ask to be born,
1065
01:05:44,201 --> 01:05:46,801
but I think I must have
changed her life irreversibly.
1066
01:05:47,001 --> 01:05:48,761
You were the best thing
she could have had.
1067
01:05:48,881 --> 01:05:50,521
- [Ella] Do you think?
- Yeah.
1068
01:05:50,641 --> 01:05:53,841
- [Ella] Was she happy?
- She loved you so much.
1069
01:05:53,961 --> 01:05:55,961
You were You were the bee's knees.
1070
01:05:56,081 --> 01:05:58,081
- You could do everything.
- [Daisy chuckles]
1071
01:05:58,201 --> 01:06:00,121
You were so musical [Ella chuckles]
1072
01:06:00,241 --> 01:06:03,201
She'd drown you with jazz.
1073
01:06:03,321 --> 01:06:06,641
Well, I'm named after Ella Fitzgerald,
aren't I? Do you know, like, it's.
1074
01:06:06,841 --> 01:06:09,601
She made me feel like
the most special person.
1075
01:06:09,721 --> 01:06:13,281
[Daisy] Oh, yeah, no
Well, you were You were magic.
1076
01:06:14,761 --> 01:06:17,641
[Young Ella] To start off the play,
I'm just going to state who this is.
1077
01:06:17,841 --> 01:06:22,321
It is Ella Murtha But first,
I'm going to sing Twinkle, Twinkle.
1078
01:06:22,441 --> 01:06:24,841
That's my favourite song,
1079
01:06:24,961 --> 01:06:28,241
and I was the star in the Christmas play,
1080
01:06:28,361 --> 01:06:31,641
and I had to sing Twinkle, Twinkle.
1081
01:06:31,761 --> 01:06:33,561
So, I hope you enjoy it.
1082
01:06:33,681 --> 01:06:36,521
And I am a very good singer,
my mummy says.
1083
01:06:36,641 --> 01:06:38,001
And here it is
1084
01:06:38,201 --> 01:06:45,041
? Twinkle, twinkle, little star
1085
01:06:45,161 --> 01:06:51,001
? How I wonder what you are
1086
01:06:52,321 --> 01:06:58,401
? Up above the world so high
1087
01:06:58,521 --> 01:07:04,681
? Like a diamond in the sky
1088
01:07:04,881 --> 01:07:11,841
? Twinkle, twinkle, little star
1089
01:07:12,041 --> 01:07:16,001
? How I wonder.
1090
01:07:16,121 --> 01:07:20,521
# What you are #
1091
01:07:23,681 --> 01:07:26,801
[Daisy] She suddenly
took you back up north
1092
01:07:27,001 --> 01:07:29,521
I think she was fed up of
1093
01:07:29,641 --> 01:07:31,561
it sounds silly - of being poor.
1094
01:07:31,681 --> 01:07:34,641
She used to tell me she'd go down
to Camden Market at the end of the day
1095
01:07:34,841 --> 01:07:37,521
and pick up vegetables off the floor
and things.
1096
01:07:38,921 --> 01:07:42,521
[Ella] We went back to Elswick,
and she was taking photos again.
1097
01:07:42,721 --> 01:07:45,441
She was doing a whole series
It was Elswick Revisited.
1098
01:07:45,641 --> 01:07:48,041
The area had changed drastically
1099
01:07:48,161 --> 01:07:50,361
from the Youth Unemployment pictures
1100
01:07:50,561 --> 01:07:54,241
just, you know, a mere ten years before
Well, not even ten years before.
1101
01:07:54,361 --> 01:07:56,881
And for a time, I think we were happy.
1102
01:07:57,961 --> 01:08:00,681
I mean, I don't know I don't know
whether Tish was ever really happy.
1103
01:08:00,881 --> 01:08:05,321
Well, she was very driven as well,
and photography was her life.
1104
01:08:05,521 --> 01:08:08,561
But I think every so often,
someone would sort of
1105
01:08:08,681 --> 01:08:11,801
give her stuff or money or
1106
01:08:11,921 --> 01:08:13,921
things came her way.
1107
01:08:14,121 --> 01:08:16,121
She was a good friend,
1108
01:08:16,241 --> 01:08:19,961
and she was very good to me at times,
you know,
1109
01:08:20,081 --> 01:08:24,681
'cause you go through miserable times,
and she'd sort of
1110
01:08:24,881 --> 01:08:26,441
spark me up.
1111
01:08:26,561 --> 01:08:28,481
We had some really good times.
1112
01:08:28,601 --> 01:08:30,681
[Tender music]
1113
01:08:34,441 --> 01:08:36,241
[Tish] "Hello, David"
1114
01:08:36,361 --> 01:08:41,801
"I have a Northern Arts Award for £2,500
paid in installments,"
1115
01:08:41,921 --> 01:08:47,401
"which is basically
to explore racial tension in this area."
1116
01:08:47,521 --> 01:08:50,041
"It's a very tough one to crack, this."
1117
01:08:52,481 --> 01:08:55,561
"But I'm taking snaps again,
which is good"
1118
01:08:57,001 --> 01:08:59,001
[Music continues]
1119
01:09:15,441 --> 01:09:18,121
[Music concludes]
1120
01:09:18,321 --> 01:09:20,321
[Papers rustle]
1121
01:09:20,441 --> 01:09:22,841
That's another good one I don't know.
1122
01:09:22,961 --> 01:09:26,841
[Ella] Oh, this is interesting This boy here
1123
01:09:27,041 --> 01:09:29,001
who's got his back to us - [Philip] Yeah.
1124
01:09:29,121 --> 01:09:32,921
[Ella] he contacted me via Instagram,
and he said, "Oh, I think I met your mam"
1125
01:09:33,041 --> 01:09:35,641
"in sort of, like, the late-'80s
in Elswick Park,"
1126
01:09:35,761 --> 01:09:39,761
"and she came over
and she started asking us about our views"
1127
01:09:39,881 --> 01:09:41,681
"and why we felt like that."
1128
01:09:41,881 --> 01:09:45,481
And he said she was the first adult
who had actually listened to him
1129
01:09:45,601 --> 01:09:48,281
and wanted to
1130
01:09:48,401 --> 01:09:50,321
know how he felt.
1131
01:09:50,441 --> 01:09:52,921
And he said that she talked to them
1132
01:09:53,041 --> 01:09:55,561
about removing the emotion from a subject
1133
01:09:55,681 --> 01:09:57,721
and looking at it from
other point of views.
1134
01:09:57,841 --> 01:09:59,761
And he said it changed his life
1135
01:09:59,881 --> 01:10:02,521
and he took that into his life.
1136
01:10:04,641 --> 01:10:06,761
Was she taking pictures right at the end?
1137
01:10:06,881 --> 01:10:09,721
The last pictures she was taking
will have been these.
1138
01:10:09,921 --> 01:10:12,481
- This is when she was in Middlesbrough.
- Yeah.
1139
01:10:12,601 --> 01:10:14,801
So, she spent a lot of time
at Linthorpe Cemetery.
1140
01:10:15,001 --> 01:10:18,641
And it's quite bizarre
looking at all these pictures
1141
01:10:18,761 --> 01:10:21,121
considering
what was just around the corner.
1142
01:10:21,241 --> 01:10:24,441
But she found it
She was at peace It was very serene.
1143
01:10:24,561 --> 01:10:27,921
[Philip] "Here is your angel
in her summer finery"
1144
01:10:28,041 --> 01:10:30,961
I always like the fact that she
wrote something on the back of pictures,
1145
01:10:31,161 --> 01:10:32,681
like a little postcard.
1146
01:10:32,801 --> 01:10:35,361
When I see her handwriting, like,
I can imagine her voice.
1147
01:10:35,481 --> 01:10:37,681
- [Philip] Yeah.
- I feel like she's here, do you know?
1148
01:10:37,801 --> 01:10:41,201
- It's unusual to see colour, isn't it?
- [Ella] Yeah, but she
1149
01:10:41,321 --> 01:10:43,161
she had to do colour
in the later days, though,
1150
01:10:43,241 --> 01:10:45,121
because after the credit crunch and stuff,
1151
01:10:45,241 --> 01:10:47,241
she couldn't get hold
of any of her chemicals.
1152
01:10:47,361 --> 01:10:49,561
She couldn't get
black and white film, either.
1153
01:10:49,681 --> 01:10:52,761
Always had trouble
getting black and white film.
1154
01:10:53,961 --> 01:10:55,921
[Contemplative music]
1155
01:10:56,041 --> 01:10:59,081
[Tish] "Central Middlesbrough
is a culturally diverse community"
1156
01:10:59,201 --> 01:11:02,081
"which has been portrayed -
unfairly to my eyes"
1157
01:11:02,201 --> 01:11:06,481
"as an area of crime,
prostitution and drugs."
1158
01:11:08,001 --> 01:11:12,481
"A community which is
at ease with itself in, so many ways"
1159
01:11:12,601 --> 01:11:15,801
"is currently threatened
by redevelopment plans,"
1160
01:11:15,921 --> 01:11:20,561
"implementation of which is already seeing
the beginnings of the demolition process."
1161
01:11:24,041 --> 01:11:26,761
"Originally built to house
the workers from the local steel industry"
1162
01:11:26,881 --> 01:11:28,441
"in the late 19th century,"
1163
01:11:28,641 --> 01:11:31,841
"as well as the descendants
of these families,"
1164
01:11:31,961 --> 01:11:36,361
"the community includes
Asian, African, Arab, Chinese."
1165
01:11:36,481 --> 01:11:39,361
"Turkish and Eastern European populations."
1166
01:11:40,561 --> 01:11:44,321
"I would like to build
a celebration of the community."
1167
01:11:45,361 --> 01:11:48,321
"Initial work has explored the local Mela"
1168
01:11:48,441 --> 01:11:50,281
"and the restored Albert Park,"
1169
01:11:50,481 --> 01:11:53,601
"the transformation
of the narrow backyards"
1170
01:11:53,721 --> 01:11:56,441
"into flowering gardens"
1171
01:11:56,561 --> 01:11:59,041
"young mothers"
1172
01:11:59,161 --> 01:12:02,921
"life on the streets
and in some of the meeting points."
1173
01:12:04,241 --> 01:12:06,121
"My approach is informal,"
1174
01:12:06,241 --> 01:12:08,441
"generating an understanding
of what I'm doing"
1175
01:12:08,561 --> 01:12:12,681
"by giving copies of my photographs
to the people with whom I'm working."
1176
01:12:14,001 --> 01:12:18,161
"I'm only seeking funding to support
the cost of materials and equipment"
1177
01:12:18,281 --> 01:12:22,961
"that will both enable this process
and produce exhibition prints,"
1178
01:12:23,081 --> 01:12:27,161
"through which a full celebration
of the community can be achieved."
1179
01:12:28,681 --> 01:12:32,121
"Childcare responsibilities have made
the pursuit of my documentary practice"
1180
01:12:32,321 --> 01:12:35,201
"difficult over recent years."
1181
01:12:35,321 --> 01:12:38,281
"My work depends on investment of time,"
1182
01:12:38,401 --> 01:12:40,521
"building of relationships of trust,"
1183
01:12:40,641 --> 01:12:43,481
"that allow access
to the different parts of the community,"
1184
01:12:43,601 --> 01:12:45,841
"and to individual lives."
1185
01:12:47,201 --> 01:12:48,881
"Through the development of this project,"
1186
01:12:49,081 --> 01:12:52,321
"I will hopefully generate
renewed interest"
1187
01:12:52,441 --> 01:12:54,801
"in my work as a documentary photographer."
1188
01:12:56,001 --> 01:12:59,361
"Whatever happens
to the community of Central Middlesbrough,"
1189
01:12:59,481 --> 01:13:02,361
"the work will stand
as a celebratory record"
1190
01:13:02,481 --> 01:13:04,441
"of a diverse community"
1191
01:13:04,561 --> 01:13:07,721
"which has found ways of living together
in relative harmony."
1192
01:13:09,401 --> 01:13:12,281
"Through the validation
of these different lives,"
1193
01:13:12,401 --> 01:13:15,881
"this community, and possibly
other marginalised communities,"
1194
01:13:16,081 --> 01:13:20,321
"may feel empowered
to challenge decision-making processes"
1195
01:13:20,441 --> 01:13:23,721
"that all too often ignore their views"
1196
01:13:23,841 --> 01:13:25,601
[Music subsides]
1197
01:13:35,601 --> 01:13:39,241
[Mark] The impact was what you see there
That was the impact.
1198
01:13:39,441 --> 01:13:41,841
That's the evidence, that's all you want.
1199
01:13:41,961 --> 01:13:43,961
It was good enough for us
to live like that,
1200
01:13:44,081 --> 01:13:45,561
and that was the price worth paying.
1201
01:13:45,761 --> 01:13:48,041
Mind you, we haven't come very far.
1202
01:13:48,161 --> 01:13:50,441
We've been unfortunate
to have the wrong people
1203
01:13:50,561 --> 01:13:52,121
to look after our interests.
1204
01:13:52,321 --> 01:13:54,881
They've failed again.
1205
01:13:55,001 --> 01:13:57,121
They always use money as a weapon.
1206
01:13:57,321 --> 01:14:00,161
But there's a lot of people
who actually control
1207
01:14:00,281 --> 01:14:03,161
that particular funding.
1208
01:14:03,281 --> 01:14:05,841
Maybe send it in the wrong directions.
1209
01:14:06,961 --> 01:14:09,281
[Birdsong, Traffic hums]
1210
01:14:28,161 --> 01:14:29,161
Yeah.
1211
01:14:36,761 --> 01:14:39,081
[Ella] My mam's absolute favourite.
1212
01:14:40,201 --> 01:14:42,561
It isl That's what it is! It's you!
1213
01:14:43,001 --> 01:14:44,121
That's you yeah,
1214
01:14:49,521 --> 01:14:51,041
[Ella] You look tight.
1215
01:15:05,201 --> 01:15:06,881
[Ella] Are you pleased that she took them?
1216
01:15:11,121 --> 01:15:12,761
Was he?
1217
01:15:18,921 --> 01:15:20,281
Aw.
1218
01:15:20,881 --> 01:15:23,921
You just never stood a chance, did you?
None of you It's.
1219
01:15:25,881 --> 01:15:27,961
I mean, no wonder my mam was angry.
1220
01:15:31,201 --> 01:15:33,841
[Wistful music]
1221
01:15:40,121 --> 01:15:42,041
[Music subsides]
1222
01:15:42,161 --> 01:15:44,281
[Ella] How had older Tish changed
1223
01:15:44,401 --> 01:15:46,681
from the young Tish
that you met in Elswick?
1224
01:15:46,881 --> 01:15:48,801
We missed each other
for quite a few years.
1225
01:15:48,921 --> 01:15:52,881
Would it be 20 or 30,
I don't know, since she came out?
1226
01:15:53,001 --> 01:15:55,161
Probably the last time
was when you were a little one
1227
01:15:55,281 --> 01:15:57,041
- and she came out to see us.
- [Bob] Yeah.
1228
01:15:57,241 --> 01:16:00,281
In terms of, like, her personality,
had she changed?
1229
01:16:01,561 --> 01:16:03,281
Not really She was.
1230
01:16:03,401 --> 01:16:06,681
Maybe she hadn't got the feistiness
that she had when she was younger.
1231
01:16:06,881 --> 01:16:09,241
She had that edge when she was young,
and it was.
1232
01:16:09,361 --> 01:16:11,481
[Ella] She had, like,
a fire in her belly, didn't she?
1233
01:16:11,641 --> 01:16:13,961
I think it had been extinguished, I think,
1234
01:16:14,161 --> 01:16:17,441
by life and just surviving - [Jos] Yes.
1235
01:16:19,481 --> 01:16:22,441
[Ella] After Middlesbrough,
she moved to Allenheads,
1236
01:16:22,641 --> 01:16:25,281
and then from there
she was close to me in Teesside.
1237
01:16:25,401 --> 01:16:29,441
But then, the camera,
there was something wrong with it
1238
01:16:29,561 --> 01:16:33,081
and it was fogging up
There was something wrong with the back.
1239
01:16:33,201 --> 01:16:35,321
Well, it had had a life [Ella chuckles]
1240
01:16:35,441 --> 01:16:38,281
- I mean, yeah.
- [Daisy] I mean, extraordinary.
1241
01:16:38,481 --> 01:16:41,441
She battered the hell out of it
for God-only-knows how long.
1242
01:16:41,561 --> 01:16:44,361
- She got her money's worth out of it.
- Oh, she certainly did.
1243
01:16:44,481 --> 01:16:47,681
They were great cameras, though I mean,
she got that because of Don McCullin
1244
01:16:47,881 --> 01:16:52,761
Don McCullin used to cart them into
battlefields, and all kinds of things.
1245
01:16:54,001 --> 01:16:56,081
[Ruminative music]
1246
01:16:58,121 --> 01:17:00,001
[Tish] "Happy Christmas, Eileen and Ali."
1247
01:17:00,121 --> 01:17:03,321
"Hope 2010 is a great year for you all."
1248
01:17:04,201 --> 01:17:06,681
"Thought you might like
a copy of Photoworks."
1249
01:17:06,801 --> 01:17:10,041
"The article by David Mellor
is nauseating claptrap,"
1250
01:17:10,681 --> 01:17:14,361
"but I like what the editor, Gordon,
did with my photographs."
1251
01:17:14,561 --> 01:17:16,841
"Thank you for the shoes."
1252
01:17:16,961 --> 01:17:18,721
"They should fit okay."
1253
01:17:18,841 --> 01:17:22,121
"My situation at the moment
is a bit rough."
1254
01:17:22,241 --> 01:17:24,921
"One week I eat, next week I don't."
1255
01:17:26,321 --> 01:17:30,641
"I am moving Only four streets away,
but it overlooks the park."
1256
01:17:30,761 --> 01:17:34,681
"Not by any means perfect,
but it'll do until the boat comes in."
1257
01:17:36,161 --> 01:17:38,001
"See you anon."
1258
01:17:38,121 --> 01:17:39,961
"Love, Tish"
1259
01:17:40,081 --> 01:17:42,601
[Music subsides]
1260
01:17:42,721 --> 01:17:44,801
[Tony Blair] This new welfare state
1261
01:17:46,001 --> 01:17:48,681
must encourage work, not dependency.
1262
01:17:50,081 --> 01:17:54,281
We are giving young people and the
long-term unemployed the opportunity.
1263
01:17:54,401 --> 01:17:58,881
A £35-billion investment programme.
1264
01:17:59,001 --> 01:18:01,201
We are adding today
the option of self-employment
1265
01:18:01,321 --> 01:18:03,641
as part of the New Deal.
1266
01:18:03,761 --> 01:18:06,401
But I think it right and fair
1267
01:18:06,521 --> 01:18:09,641
that they have to take
one of the options on offer.
1268
01:18:10,961 --> 01:18:14,681
We want single mothers
with school-aged children
1269
01:18:14,801 --> 01:18:16,921
at least to visit a Job Centre,
1270
01:18:17,041 --> 01:18:19,721
not just stay at home,
waiting for the benefit cheque every week
1271
01:18:19,841 --> 01:18:21,841
until the children are 16.
1272
01:18:24,001 --> 01:18:26,641
I remember the dole
were giving her a hard time at one point.
1273
01:18:26,761 --> 01:18:28,841
They wanted her
to work in factory or something,
1274
01:18:28,961 --> 01:18:30,561
and she just wasn't having it.
1275
01:18:30,681 --> 01:18:34,321
And I was sort of supporting her
and saying, "No, stand up for yourself".
1276
01:18:34,441 --> 01:18:36,721
It was the time
Do you remember New Deal?
1277
01:18:36,801 --> 01:18:38,401
[Ella] Oh, God, yeah - All of that.
1278
01:18:38,481 --> 01:18:40,361
[Ella] She did actually get sent.
1279
01:18:40,481 --> 01:18:43,081
- She was sent to a meat-processing place.
- [Ella] Yeah.
1280
01:18:43,201 --> 01:18:45,337
But she was so tired,
'cause they were doing night shifts.
1281
01:18:45,361 --> 01:18:47,241
They used to come pick her up
in this bus thing.
1282
01:18:47,321 --> 01:18:48,841
And she was hallucinating.
1283
01:18:49,041 --> 01:18:52,481
She was just so tired And the smell
'Cause, I mean, she was a vegetarian
1284
01:18:52,601 --> 01:18:54,481
- I know.
- [Ella] do you know? Like, it was.
1285
01:18:54,681 --> 01:18:56,601
She had so much talent,
1286
01:18:56,721 --> 01:18:59,081
and she just couldn't make a living
from photography.
1287
01:18:59,281 --> 01:19:01,761
No - [Ella] She just couldn't do it.
1288
01:19:01,961 --> 01:19:03,961
[Sombre, resonant music]
1289
01:19:07,121 --> 01:19:11,201
[Tish] "Patricia Anne Murtha - CV"
1290
01:19:11,321 --> 01:19:15,481
"I am an honest,
reliable and trustworthy person"
1291
01:19:15,601 --> 01:19:18,481
"with the ability to
work on own initiatives"
1292
01:19:18,601 --> 01:19:21,441
"or as an effective team member."
1293
01:19:21,561 --> 01:19:23,681
"Having previously completed
college training"
1294
01:19:23,801 --> 01:19:26,201
"in documentary photography,"
1295
01:19:26,321 --> 01:19:30,321
"I am now seeking a position
where I am able to fully utilise"
1296
01:19:30,401 --> 01:19:32,841
"all of my skills and knowledge"
1297
01:19:34,521 --> 01:19:37,721
"thriving on new challenges
and responsibility."
1298
01:19:38,801 --> 01:19:41,601
"I am versatile and adaptable,"
1299
01:19:41,721 --> 01:19:46,041
"and can successfully transfer
my existing skills and knowledge"
1300
01:19:46,161 --> 01:19:48,601
"to new situations."
1301
01:19:50,841 --> 01:19:53,041
"Given the opportunity."
1302
01:19:54,081 --> 01:19:58,601
"I am confident that I will prove to be
an asset to any future employer."
1303
01:20:00,921 --> 01:20:03,081
"During my spare time,"
1304
01:20:03,201 --> 01:20:05,281
"I enjoy walking to keep fit."
1305
01:20:06,521 --> 01:20:10,681
"To relax, I listen to music
and read a variety of books."
1306
01:20:13,401 --> 01:20:16,801
"I like gardening,
and growing my own fruit and veg."
1307
01:20:19,521 --> 01:20:21,721
"I'm also a keen photographer"
1308
01:20:24,081 --> 01:20:26,361
"and develop my own photos"
1309
01:20:26,481 --> 01:20:28,481
[Music subsides]
1310
01:20:31,801 --> 01:20:34,481
[Tish] "January the 14th, 2013."
1311
01:20:34,601 --> 01:20:37,801
"Got an e-mail number,
as requested by the Job Centre.
1312
01:20:37,881 --> 01:20:41,681
"Made enquiries at Aldi Chichester,
for position as store assistant.
1313
01:20:41,761 --> 01:20:45,921
"Have no retail experience,
so response not very positive.
1314
01:20:46,041 --> 01:20:47,561
"January the 22nd.
1315
01:20:47,681 --> 01:20:50,361
"Sent CV and letter
to the Punjab Kitchen Ltd,
1316
01:20:50,441 --> 01:20:52,801
- "Eldon Street, South Shields"
- [Tish voice overlaps]
1317
01:20:52,921 --> 01:20:55,081
"Spoke to Mandy about waiting staff job."
1318
01:20:55,201 --> 01:20:59,001
"February the 8th Checked
the Universal Jobs site various times."
1319
01:20:59,121 --> 01:21:02,441
"February 13th
Also wrote to BB's Coffee Shop."
1320
01:21:02,561 --> 01:21:05,881
"February 14th Sent CV to Sodexo."
1321
01:21:06,001 --> 01:21:11,521
"February 16th Visited various outlets
at the Gateshead retail centre"
1322
01:21:11,641 --> 01:21:14,521
"to make enquiries about vacancies"
1323
01:21:29,441 --> 01:21:31,441
[Water laps]
1324
01:21:37,881 --> 01:21:40,641
[Ella] She was living, like, hand-to-mouth.
1325
01:21:40,761 --> 01:21:43,361
Like, I helped her where I could,
but I was on maternity leave.
1326
01:21:43,481 --> 01:21:47,001
- [Eileen] Of course you were.
- She spent her final few weeks
1327
01:21:47,121 --> 01:21:50,041
traipsing around,
trying to get jobs in a kitchen.
1328
01:21:50,241 --> 01:21:52,721
She was terrified to turn the heating on.
1329
01:21:52,841 --> 01:21:54,641
And, do you know, the worst thing of all,
1330
01:21:54,761 --> 01:21:56,441
like, it was, did she heat or did she eat?
1331
01:21:56,521 --> 01:21:58,561
[Eileen] Yes, yeah - And when she died,
1332
01:21:58,681 --> 01:22:00,641
I ended up getting a cheque for £100,
1333
01:22:00,841 --> 01:22:03,921
because she'd been
religiously putting this £20 on.
1334
01:22:04,041 --> 01:22:07,161
- Yeah, yeah.
- But terrified to have the heating on.
1335
01:22:07,281 --> 01:22:08,681
And she was in credit.
1336
01:22:08,801 --> 01:22:11,081
Do you know,
she could have had the heating on,
1337
01:22:11,201 --> 01:22:14,161
but she felt so worthless
1338
01:22:14,281 --> 01:22:17,681
and like she didn't deserve
to have a warm house.
1339
01:22:17,801 --> 01:22:19,641
And it's just, like - [Eileen] Oh, Ella.
1340
01:22:19,761 --> 01:22:23,041
But, do you know,
when she was in that coma, right?
1341
01:22:23,161 --> 01:22:26,201
[Eileen] I remember - I rang them
1342
01:22:26,321 --> 01:22:28,921
because - [Eileen] Just take a breath.
1343
01:22:29,041 --> 01:22:31,401
[Ella breathes shakily]
1344
01:22:34,561 --> 01:22:38,361
When I should have been looking after her
and worried about her.
1345
01:22:39,681 --> 01:22:42,401
I was so stressed out
that she was going to get sanctioned
1346
01:22:42,521 --> 01:22:44,977
while she was in the hospital,
and she was going to lose her house.
1347
01:22:45,001 --> 01:22:46,721
[Ella] When she was in a coma - Yeah.
1348
01:22:46,841 --> 01:22:49,841
So, I rang them, 'cause I couldn't
get any sense out of her
1349
01:22:49,961 --> 01:22:52,681
I said, "Did you sign on on Friday?"
and she just.
1350
01:22:52,881 --> 01:22:56,121
She She just wasn't making
any sense at all.
1351
01:22:56,321 --> 01:23:00,321
Which I now know is, do you know,
what was going on in her brain.
1352
01:23:00,441 --> 01:23:03,321
And so, I rang them
and I said, "Look, my mam",
1353
01:23:03,441 --> 01:23:07,121
"she's had a brain haemorrhage,
she's in a coma"
1354
01:23:07,241 --> 01:23:09,481
"I don't know whether she came
and signed on on Friday,"
1355
01:23:09,601 --> 01:23:11,801
"but obviously please don't sanction her."
1356
01:23:11,921 --> 01:23:13,921
And they just refused to talk to me.
1357
01:23:14,041 --> 01:23:16,361
- They refused to tell me if she'd been.
- [Eileen] Really?
1358
01:23:16,401 --> 01:23:19,601
They said, "It's against data protection
We cannot discuss that with you".
1359
01:23:19,801 --> 01:23:24,041
The way the DWP and this government,
1360
01:23:24,161 --> 01:23:26,121
like, the way they treat people.
1361
01:23:26,241 --> 01:23:28,921
- Oh, it's punishing and punitive.
- It's do you know.
1362
01:23:29,121 --> 01:23:31,961
She was just a number
We're all just numbers to them.
1363
01:23:32,081 --> 01:23:33,961
But, do you know, like.
1364
01:23:34,081 --> 01:23:36,721
She was so special She was so talented.
1365
01:23:36,841 --> 01:23:38,481
[Eileen] She was - and they didn't care.
1366
01:23:40,321 --> 01:23:44,081
I just like to come here
because it feels like going full circle.
1367
01:23:44,201 --> 01:23:46,881
- Do you know, she was born here.
- Yeah, she was.
1368
01:23:47,001 --> 01:23:50,521
Do you know, like,
her happy childhood memories are here.
1369
01:23:50,641 --> 01:23:54,161
- We had happy times here on this bench.
- This bench, yeah.
1370
01:23:54,361 --> 01:23:57,161
- Oh, yeah, it had to be this one.
- [Ella] It had to be this one.
1371
01:24:02,521 --> 01:24:04,521
[Sombre, resonant music]
1372
01:24:13,481 --> 01:24:16,041
[Gordon] Tish's work,
I remembered when I first looked at it,
1373
01:24:16,161 --> 01:24:18,681
remembered the kind of thrill
of what photography was
1374
01:24:18,801 --> 01:24:21,401
and what it could do [Music subsides]
1375
01:24:21,521 --> 01:24:25,481
They clearly weren't
those sort of explorer pictures.
1376
01:24:25,681 --> 01:24:28,961
You know, you feel when someone's
exploring a culture,
1377
01:24:29,081 --> 01:24:31,361
when someone's exploring
working-class culture,
1378
01:24:31,481 --> 01:24:32,961
and they've just stepped in,
1379
01:24:33,081 --> 01:24:36,041
and they're going to step out,
back to wherever, later on.
1380
01:24:36,161 --> 01:24:38,321
Just parachute in - Parachute back out.
1381
01:24:38,441 --> 01:24:40,361
And they've got their pictures of people,
1382
01:24:40,481 --> 01:24:42,337
kids looking slightly grubby,
and stuff like this.
1383
01:24:42,361 --> 01:24:43,721
This felt like my childhood.
1384
01:24:43,921 --> 01:24:47,081
And it became clear when I met your mum,
when I learned more about the work
1385
01:24:47,201 --> 01:24:50,841
and talked to her more about the work,
that it was because that was her,
1386
01:24:50,961 --> 01:24:53,641
and she had made something
which was so clear
1387
01:24:53,761 --> 01:24:56,121
and so honest and so raw.
1388
01:24:57,641 --> 01:25:00,041
She was allowed to be invisible
1389
01:25:00,241 --> 01:25:02,241
in a way that someone
from the outside wouldn't be,
1390
01:25:02,281 --> 01:25:04,241
'cause that was her life.
1391
01:25:04,361 --> 01:25:06,761
Now your mum's work is central
1392
01:25:06,881 --> 01:25:09,521
to people's thinking about
1393
01:25:09,641 --> 01:25:11,281
documentary photography from that period.
1394
01:25:11,441 --> 01:25:14,841
It's not peripheral any more,
and that's that's something, isn't it?
1395
01:25:15,961 --> 01:25:19,401
So, you know, you've been helping me
with Clarrie and the Tate.
1396
01:25:19,601 --> 01:25:22,121
- Do you know how you set up your darkroom?
- Yes
1397
01:25:22,241 --> 01:25:24,481
I was going to ask
whether you would like to print them.
1398
01:25:24,601 --> 01:25:25,961
Oh, God, I'd love to
1399
01:25:26,161 --> 01:25:28,401
I would love you to print them
for the Tate Collection.
1400
01:25:28,521 --> 01:25:29,961
[Gordon] That's a really nice thing.
1401
01:25:30,081 --> 01:25:32,761
Um, yeah God, yeah.
1402
01:25:34,281 --> 01:25:38,361
[Music - "Vissi d'arte" by Maria Callas]
1403
01:26:01,641 --> 01:26:04,601
[Music continues]
1404
01:26:04,721 --> 01:26:08,081
[Ella] To actually say that Tate Britain
have acquired my mam's work
1405
01:26:08,201 --> 01:26:09,801
for their permanent collection,
1406
01:26:09,921 --> 01:26:12,241
I mean, the whole thought of that is just
1407
01:26:13,721 --> 01:26:16,121
it's quite overwhelming really.
1408
01:26:17,761 --> 01:26:20,841
I think she'd have loved
to have seen her work on the wall
1409
01:26:20,961 --> 01:26:23,601
and, do you know, be recognised
1410
01:26:23,721 --> 01:26:26,481
for just how talented she was.
1411
01:26:27,641 --> 01:26:29,121
A lot of people say to me, like,
1412
01:26:29,241 --> 01:26:33,481
"That could have been me, that could have
been my brother, that could have been us."
1413
01:26:33,601 --> 01:26:37,281
Pictures of real people,
real stories, real lives.
1414
01:26:37,401 --> 01:26:40,321
And for it to be recognised because,
1415
01:26:40,441 --> 01:26:43,201
do you know, my mam's work was brilliant.
1416
01:26:43,321 --> 01:26:45,121
And I mean, I'm biased,
1417
01:26:45,241 --> 01:26:49,601
but for other people to recognise that,
and for Tate to recognise that
1418
01:26:50,841 --> 01:26:53,121
what more could you want?
1419
01:26:53,201 --> 01:26:55,201
[Music continues]
1420
01:26:58,001 --> 01:27:02,841
? Diedi Fiori
1421
01:27:02,961 --> 01:27:09,041
? Agli altar
1422
01:27:10,881 --> 01:27:16,321
? Nell'ora del dolore
1423
01:27:16,441 --> 01:27:22,121
# Perché, perché, Signore #
1424
01:27:22,241 --> 01:27:29,161
? Perché me ne rimuneri
1425
01:27:29,281 --> 01:27:34,441
# Così #
1426
01:27:39,801 --> 01:27:44,921
? Diedi I gioielli
1427
01:27:45,041 --> 01:27:50,161
? Della Madonna al man to
1428
01:27:50,281 --> 01:27:55,081
? E diedi il canto
1429
01:27:55,201 --> 01:27:57,721
? Agli astri, al ciel
1430
01:27:57,841 --> 01:28:03,161
? Che ne ride an più belli
1431
01:28:03,281 --> 01:28:08,201
? Nell'ora del dolor
1432
01:28:08,321 --> 01:28:12,921
? Perché
1433
01:28:13,041 --> 01:28:21,041
# Perché, Signor #
1434
01:28:32,441 --> 01:28:40,441
? Perché me ne rimuneri
1435
01:28:42,761 --> 01:28:49,681
# Così? #
1436
01:28:54,361 --> 01:28:57,361
[Sombre instrumental music]
1437
01:30:10,601 --> 01:30:12,561
[Music concludes, resonates]