They drove over the front yard, and they broke a water line.
-[Judge Levy] Did you see them drive over? -I would be guessing.
[Judge Levy] And they damaged this pool?
[Shawn] It looks like somebody had put a metal chair.
-I wasn't there. -So you're guessing again.
And you know what does not win a suit for you in a courtroom?
Guessing.
[announcer] Today on Tribunal Justice...
This case was filed in San Diego, California.
Your Honor, this is case number 1114 on the calendar
in the matter of S. and E. Votel versus Harris.
Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
[Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd.
All right, ladies, you're sisters.
And, sir, you are the landlord in this matter.
You rented his place.
And in July, he asked you to move out by August 1st.
And he offered you a buy-out agreement
because, apparently, sir, for a time you were living in Mexico,
and then, when you came back,
you wanted to move back into your own home.
That's correct, Your Honor. I had a, um, house I was gonna purchase
and it fell through. The seller cancelled.
And so, I had to find alternate living arrangements.
[Judge DiMango] Okay. So now, you're breaching the lease, basically.
So we'll move, but you gotta pay us six months' rent
so that we can move and find a place.
And we want our security deposit back.
-Correct, yes. -He says no, no.
I'm not gonna give you that kind of money.
How about we do four months and the security deposit?
And you both reject that offer at the time.
And so here you are suing for $6,978,
which you say are the moneys that it cost you to move yourselves.
And you want back the $2,939
that he withheld from your security deposit.
So, the total money you're seeking from the defendant is $9,917.
-Correct. -Yes.
What you say, sir,
is that they were going to move out in July.
When you returned from Mexico,
you say that you gave them a check for $11,200.
In August, you discovered that there were damages,
that there were much more damages than you thought.
You say you don't really owe them anything.
In fact, you're counterclaiming them
for repairs to the air conditioning unit in the amount of $8,300,
for the broken irrigation system, for the trash cleanup, etcetera,
in the amount of $10,000, which is the court maximum.
-Yes, Your Honor. -Now...
Why did you need all of this money to move?
So, originally, um, we had paid him rent for the month of July,
a total of $2,800.
On July 1st, he asked us to move.
We never disagreed with his terms of the four months.
We were negotiating back and forth.
Which he went back on his agreement several times over that week.
On short notice we were able to find a house
and accommodate him and his family.
The four months that he was originally offering us,
the four months and the full security deposit,
was intended to be from October 1st.
And we were able to find accommodations sooner,
so we had requested additional funds.
He had claimed that he was only obligated
to pay half of the remaining amount's rent.
Which would've been four months...
When he said he was gonna pay you originally,
he said he was gonna give you something like $11,700.
$11,200.
And you found a place, you moved.
And you had $11,000 to do it. I don't understand what your problem is.
You just wanted him to just keep paying you?
No, it was a great inconvenience to us.
[Judge DiMango] It's always an inconvenience to move.
The housing market was not in our favor at that time.
We found a house that cost $1,200 more a month.
On a moment's notice,
we were able to move in within that next week.
He refused to prorate us any rent for that month.
As well as the additional cost of,
we had to pay the rent and deposit at our new place,
had already paid him money.
All those things you have to do if you had to move.
Correct, but we did not get any of the money
until after we had already done...
As per the agreement.
Bottom line is, you had a two-year lease.
At the end of two years, he didn't have to let you stay.
You would've had to move.
You would've had to incur similar expenses here.
They have six months left on the lease.
You offered to give them four months' rent
and let them keep their security deposit, but for major issues.
Major issues.
But that you can't keep for wear and tear anyway.
-Correct. -So now,
he's saying to you, look, I recognize that this is a hardship for you.
And so because of that, I'm willing to give you 11,000-plus.
And you say, We want more.
The $11,200 barely covered
the entire expenses for the month of July.
Having to pay rent on two different locations in that month,
as well as a security deposit,
and that set us back financially.
You moved out, what date?
We stayed on property until July 31st
because of a refusal of pro-rating the rent.
So, what date did you find the property?
[Sarah] July 6th was when we got the initial, um, breakdown
of what our-- our expenses were gonna be.
But we wanted to secure our future
and make sure that we got this property that we were looking into.
-That we were forced into. -How much notice did you give them?
I gave them the option to move out.
On Friday is when all the conversation happened,
this was Fourth of July weekend,
and I gave them the option which they never agreed to.
And the next Tuesday, I went back to them
and said, hey, I have already found new living arrangements.
They didn't get back to me. I said don't worry about it.
Stay in the house, keep your two-year lease.
Four times I said stay in the house, keep your lease,
I have other arrangements.
They told me that they had already written a new security deposit check
on July 5th,
which they just contradicted.
-So it's... -I'm not sure...
They wanted their cake and eat it too.
They found a better place that they liked.
They got a check for $11,000, which they wouldn't have
if they would have stayed until the end of their lease.
The problem is that if you had the option to remain
and you chose to leave earlier,
then there's no reason
why he should continue to reimburse you moneys
when it was a choice that you made.
And you were still getting $11,200 for it.
[dramatic music plays]
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
There was an inch of dog hair on the air filter when I removed it.
-Wow! -Yeah.
-An inch of dog hair. -Yes, sir.
Show me a photo.
Don't have one, I'm sorry.
Ho! Whoa, real--
I have repair bills.
I pay very close attention when people talk,
especially people who are talking sideways.
You used the phrase "inch of dog hair,"
yet you don't bring a single photograph?
[dramatic music plays]
[announcer] Sarah and Emily Votel
are suing their former landlord, Shawn Harris,
for a security deposit and money for a new place.
Shawn claims he paid them money to move out
and is countersuing for the cost of an air conditioning unit.
I have an agreement here that I believe was signed by all of you.
Is this correct? You signed this?
And it's the agreement to terminate.
The lease will terminate on August 1st.
-You agreed to that. -Right. I would like to say
that on July 1st was when he originally asked us
if we would like to leave and buy out our lease on August 1st.
I let him know that we would have to discuss it.
[Judge DiMango] Well, then, you took the time.
I told him that I would have to discuss it with Emily,
who was working at the time, and I let him know...
What you really were doing, you were saying,
Hold on, let me see if I can find a place.
If I can find a place, then I'll tell you I wanna leave.
If I can't find a place, then I'll tell you we're gonna stay.
That's what you did.
So, let me just go through with the agreement you signed.
You're gonna leave August 1st.
Then the landlord is gonna pay you four months of rent,
totaling $11,200.
And that fee will be paid when you vacate on August 1st.
And now, you're suing them in a counterclaim
because you say that they did cut off the irrigation system in your yard.
Do we have pictures of the dead plants and all in the yard, which I had seen?
You didn't water them. They were dead.
And your responsibility, according to the lease,
was for you to take care of the yard
-and the lawn and the plants. -They were on a self-timer.
We never shut off any timer.
-That has a self-timer? -Yes.
-The plants? -They had a self-timer that was shut off.
I actually paid the water
because I have a lot of trees and everything,
so during the time they were my tenants,
they never paid the water bill. That was on me
'cause I knew I wanted to keep my plants.
It does say in the lease that he would come to the property
once a month to maintain the landscaping and...
Let me stop you 'cause I'm not a California person,
but I do know that California was in a drought.
And so, therefore, to run the water
on an irrigation system for plants like that,
I don't know if I wanna hold somebody responsible...
These plants were watered once a week for five minutes on a drip system.
Well, that's not for me to decide. I got it. They're dead.
The last thing is, on here, that you're asking for, sir,
was the air conditioner.
[Shawn] So they had a large dog and a cat,
and not once in 18 months
did they clean the air filter on my air conditioning.
As per our lease,
it's their responsibility to maintain the appliances.
So when I showed up to do the walk-through...
But they said you didn't walk through with them, sir.
Because the problem I have is if you decline the walk-through with them,
even if they were wrong,
I don't know if you would be entitled to any money for that.
They... I offered them a walk-through ten days before moving out,
which they in writing declined.
-[Judge DiMango] Where is that? -I have a...
Ladies, am I gonna find that you declined it?
I had actually requested the walk-through
ten days prior, with pro-rated rent, which he refused,
and he said we won't do the walk-through that day.
"There's no need to do a walk-through on Wednesday.
We remain tenants until August 1st.
Therefore you can get into the garage as usual,
but the interior of the house is still ours.
We will be out regardless,
but the walk-through can wait until the 1st.
Utilities will still be shut off on our end,
and we'd like some of the money early
-for our inconvenience." -Yes.
So, ladies,
you know, the expression you cut off your nose to spite your face?
Sure.
You declined everything.
You were staying, you weren't doing this, you were gonna keep it,
you want more money for that...
-Judge Levy? -Thank you.
-You said that the air conditioning... -[Shawn] Yes, sir.
...that the filter wasn't changed in 18 months,
and that it's the tenants' responsibility for that upkeep.
Yes, sir.
Show me in the lease where it says that.
Can you give me just a moment, sir?
I'll give you as much time as you want. It's not there.
'Cause according to your analysis
they would be responsible for charging it, if it's low on Freon.
They'd be responsible for doing other types of maintenance
that HVAC people are responsible for.
I don't have a copy. Is there a copy of the lease in here?
[Judge Levy] It's your case.
I don't present evidence to you, you present evidence to me.
The fact is that the lease, which I do have in its entirety
doesn't say what you claim it says.
When did you purchase the home?
Uh, I believe that was 2014, sir.
Between 2014 and 2022,
did you ever replace the condenser unit and the air handler?
No, sir.
Did you bring service records with you from an HVAC company
suggesting that you, prior to the plaintiffs taking over the lease,
maintained the unit?
-No, sir, I did not. -Did you do that?
I replaced the air conditioner filter every year.
And about every two years, I'd have them come out
to tune up the, uh, the AC.
-Tune up the AC? -Yes, sir.
So are you suggesting that it's the plaintiffs' responsibility
to tune up the AC also, along with changing out the filters?
-No, sir. -No.
What type of a unit was it that was in the home since 2014
that you're looking for the plaintiffs to now replace
to the tune of $8,000?
[Shawn] It was a Carrier air conditioning unit, three and a half tons.
And you have to upgrade to a new unit, which is what you really wanted,
but you just want them to pay for it. That's not gonna happen.
They didn't change the filter.
There was an inch of dog hair on the air filter when I removed it.
Wow. An inch of dog hair?
-Yes, sir. -Show me a photo.
I don't have one, I'm sorry.
Ho! Whoa, real--
I have repair bills.
Just so you and I are clear,
I-I pay very close attention when people talk,
especially people who are talking sideways.
You used the phrase "inch of dog hair,"
yet you don't bring a single photograph
so that we could see this inch of dog hair?
-No. -You want them to pay $8,300.
And since you don't have an HVAC person,
that means that you would have to look at it yourself
and make a determination yourself, which you can't do
'cause you don't know anything about them.
I had a professional come out and give me a quote
and tell me what was wrong with it.
So when you should bring something to court
that you don't bring to court,
there's an adverse inference that I am going to take now
at your failure to present that evidence to me.
That, had you presented it,
you showed me a photograph,
it would've been inconsistent with what you're telling me right now.
How much money do you want them to pay for your dead lawn and your dead plants?
Five hundred.
-$500? -Yes, sir.
Okay. Those plants, the landscaping, that was important to you?
It was important enough to set up the irrigation
and pay for the water while I was gone, so, yes, they were important.
No sentimental value, but they're my backyard.
-It's my home. -Great.
Now, we could agree
that the issue of who was going to be responsible
for the maintenance of the landscaping
was, in fact, memorialized in the lease.
-It was. -And this one, I am gonna show to you.
"Landlord shall water the garden, landscaping, trees and shrubs."
[Emily] I actually did hire a landscaping company
-to do what he failed to do. -[Judge Levy laughs]
But he never gave us direction on what specifically was sentimental
-to him... -I got that.
There goes your landscaping issue. I wanna talk about this pool.
You moved in in 2014. Was the pool there?
It's an old pool. I don't know when it was installed.
I know it was replastered about 15 years ago.
And you submit an estimate here
that you expect them to pay
$13,594.85
to give you a brand-new pool.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
You're not here suing over the security deposit alone.
As for coming to this court and seeking to undo this agreement
and renegotiate by litigation,
I find it offensive.
[dramatic music plays]
You submit an estimate here that you expect them to pay
$13,594.85 to give you a brand-new pool.
[Shawn] Just the repair of the steps there.
I had them do me two quotes
just to repair the steps that they had damaged...
So, in other words you were gonna pay 99% of this,
but you only wanted them to contribute a little something.
I wanted to fix what they broke, yes, sir.
-What they broke? -Yes, sir.
You are claiming that this area right there
is what they damaged.
[Shawn] There, and there's two or three other spots there,
smaller, but, yes, sir.
[Judge Levy] Over here, you got another one.
Here's another one over here.
You tell me, to a reasonable degree of certainty,
what caused that damage?
I didn't live in the property. I have no idea.
It looks like somebody had put a metal chair.
-I wasn't there, so I can't speak to that. -That's exactly right.
You have no idea. You would just be guessing.
I would be guessing, yes, sir.
Right. And you know what does not win a suit for you in a courtroom?
Guessing.
He has absolutely no intention of giving you back your security.
He's gonna give you that check,
and he's gonna force you to file a claim against him,
standing where you are to try to get back the rest,
and present us with the ridiculousness of this nonsense.
What is this?
Somebody had driven over it while they occupied the property.
They drove over the front yard, and they broke a water line.
-Is this the water line right here? -Yes, sir.
And it's your position that that was caused by someone driving over it?
[Shawn] If you look at the first picture, there's tire tracks.
I don't care whether there are tire tracks or not.
Yes, it's my position that tire tracks indicate that somebody drove over it.
Yeah, that is absolutely correct. I will give you that.
Tire tracks suggest and prove that someone drove over that.
-Did you see them drive over? -No, sir.
So you're guessing again. I don't like what you did to them.
I got nothing further.
[Judge Acker] Can we put the lease break back up on the screen?
'Cause I don't like what you did to him.
Let's look at the third paragraph.
Because what I note, and what I find a little bit offensive,
is that you were trying to renegotiate a deal
that you had every opportunity to negotiate
and for which you got the benefit.
I would like you to read the third paragraph,
which starts, "Landlord shall pay to tenants a break lease fee..."
[Sarah] "Landlord shall provide a reimbursement of security deposit..."
[Judge Acker] No, no. "Landlord shall pay to tenants a break..." That sentence.
[Sarah] "...break lease fee equal to four months of rent, totaling $11,200.
Fee will be paid when the tenants vacate on August 1st."
[Judge Acker] So, I would like you to explain to me
what part of that agreement
entitles you to an additional
$6,978 in rent. What part of it?
-No part of the... -No part of the agreement.
But you've decided that after you signed this agreement,
you didn't like it. You wanted more money.
That's not how it works.
And, frankly, sir, if I were up here by myself,
I would sanction them for doing that.
The whole reason he paid you $11,000
is because he knew he wanted to go home.
He paid for that.
We had no issue with the $11,000.
No, you just want more, which is why you're here.
It was the issue of withholding the security deposit.
Not exactly. Because you're not just here
suing him for withholding the security deposit.
As for coming to this court and seeking to undo this agreement
and renegotiate by litigation,
I find it offensive.
So this attempt to try to extract more after you did the deal,
I think is absolutely and manifestly wrong.
I don't think I have anything further. Thank you.
[Judge Levy] I have one thing. Let me ask you this.
Are you willing right now, before we go in to deliberate,
to withdraw your request for $6,978 for that new place,
and just look to get back your security deposit?
-[both] Yes. -Thank you.
It's withdrawn.
We're gonna retire to deliberate. Thank you all.
[Judge Levy] I appreciate that.
[Byrd] Court now stands in recess. Parties are excused.
They actually made themselves look better by withdrawing their request
for that $6,900 for moving fees.
So the only issue we have here is
did he wrongfully withhold any or all of the security deposit.
The lease specifically says
that even though they would be responsible for watering the plants and all,
that any municipality water issues would supersede that.
So, to me, that would obviate their need to take care of the plants.
I'm not gonna hold them responsible for any of that.
Damage to the pool, you know,
it's hard to say whether or not that's not normal wear and tear
because it is the top step and you do have friction,
so I don't think that I'd be willing to give them anything for the pool.
The air conditioning unit,
there is a provision in the lease that says
that they must carefully use and maintain different things,
but I'm not gonna make these people pay for an entire air conditioning unit
that's probably been there at least five years.
-Since 2014. -Right.
It would be my inclination to dismiss this countersuit.
And it would also be my inclination to probably dismiss the complaint as well.
[Judge Levy] Dismiss the complaint?
-He improperly withheld... -[Judge Acker] The security deposit.
...withheld security deposit.
And there is absolutely no doubt in my mind,
looking at those two plaintiffs,
that the only reason they added that ridiculous moving fees
is because he refused to reimburse them for the security.
I don't think there was any bad faith on their part.
And their willingness to withdraw that now...
It changes my willingness to spend some time back here
trying to convince you to dismiss the rest of it
-for the bad faith claim. -Oh, no...
So, it actually matters.
I'm glad that they dismissed it.
-[Judge DiMango] Well, I said that. -Yeah, yeah.
[Judge DiMango] So the money that they get that he withheld,
the $2,900, you wanna return it all?
-Every penny of it. -[Judge Acker] Uh, to your point,
I am not holding anybody liable in California for a brown lawn
during this drought period.
I think that pool was old, it's normal wear and tear.
He's completely lost me on the air conditioning.
So I think that's their whole deposit.
[Judge DiMango] So then, they would be entitled to the return of the 2,939.
-I agree. -Me too.
-Excellent. -[Judge Acker laughs]
Court is back in session.
Parties are reminded you're still under oath.
Thank you, Byrd.
Well, we're unanimous on both the main complaint
and on the counterclaim.
Beginning with the counterclaim, sir,
we found that you were really overreaching with regard to your request for $8,300
for an air conditioning unit that's been there at least five years.
As does your request for the full security deposit.
So your counterclaim is dismissed.
Ladies, we are very appreciative of the fact that you withdrew your request
for your moving damages, exceeding $6,900.
Personally, for me, I felt like you knew which way we were going anyway,
so it did really look good to help yourselves.
And, in fact, it was the right thing to do.
With regard to your request for the return of the security deposit that he withheld,
we could not find anything in this record
that would have been chargeable to you.
Therefore you are entitled to recover the balance
that was withheld, $2,919.
That's the unanimous verdict of the court.
Thank you, Your Honor.
[Byrd] This is case is concluded. Parties are excused. You may step out.
It's a little disappointing, you know, based on their logic we wouldn't,
nobody would ever be able to withhold a security deposit.
It was fair when we agreed on it.
It wasn't fair of everything that we had to pay after the fact.
I needed to get back to my house,
so I was willing to write a big check to get them out.
Unfortunately, they decided to sue me.
-Happy we're out of there. -Just have it behind us.
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