1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:01,600 He asked you to leave the apartment. 2 00:00:01,667 --> 00:00:03,867 And he spent his money on drinking. 3 00:00:03,934 --> 00:00:06,467 He ate your food, he wasn't clean in the house. 4 00:00:06,533 --> 00:00:08,767 I don't think I was such a bad tenant. 5 00:00:08,834 --> 00:00:11,433 -What are you talking about? -You violated all of their rules. 6 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:13,033 -You're right. -You owe them rent. 7 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:15,166 -You're right. -I'm not sure why they would support you. 8 00:00:15,233 --> 00:00:16,800 You're right. You're absolutely right. 9 00:00:16,867 --> 00:00:17,867 Yeah, I know I'm right. 10 00:00:17,934 --> 00:00:20,300 [announcer] Today on Tribunal Justice... 11 00:00:41,834 --> 00:00:44,667 This case was filed in Morristown, New Jersey. 12 00:00:44,734 --> 00:00:47,133 [Byrd] Your Honor, this is case number 1121 on the calendar 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,066 in the matter of Witt versus Martinelli. 14 00:00:50,133 --> 00:00:52,567 Parties have been sworn in, you may be seated. 15 00:00:52,633 --> 00:00:54,033 [Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd. 16 00:00:54,100 --> 00:00:58,900 Ms. Witt, you and Mr. Martinelli have been friends for at least 15 years. 17 00:00:58,967 --> 00:01:02,300 You say that in this particular occasion he was down on his luck. 18 00:01:02,367 --> 00:01:05,367 And you said he can move in. You basically had an oral agreement 19 00:01:05,432 --> 00:01:08,700 that he would stay for a year, pay you $500 a month. 20 00:01:08,767 --> 00:01:11,934 You said that he spent his money on smoking cigarettes 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,834 and on drinking. 22 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:16,367 He ate your food, he wasn't clean in the house. 23 00:01:16,433 --> 00:01:19,265 You lent him $82 to buy a cigarette making machine 24 00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:20,934 because you thought it would be cheaper 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,100 than going to the store and buying cigarettes, 26 00:01:23,166 --> 00:01:27,033 which now you need a loan, practically, they're so expensive to go out and buy. 27 00:01:27,100 --> 00:01:28,567 You say he paid very little. 28 00:01:28,633 --> 00:01:30,567 He owes the court maximum to you, 29 00:01:30,633 --> 00:01:33,467 which is at least $5,000 in back rent and loans. 30 00:01:33,533 --> 00:01:35,734 But Mr. Martinelli, you have a different story. 31 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,400 You say you paid until you couldn't. 32 00:01:37,467 --> 00:01:39,433 You admit you may owe some back rent, 33 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:42,366 but you say she's really on a power trip, that's what this is about. 34 00:01:42,433 --> 00:01:43,834 You say you owe nothing. 35 00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:45,133 Just out of curiosity, 36 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,533 why would somebody who's a friend of yours for 15 years 37 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,433 suddenly go on a power trip with you for $5,000? 38 00:01:50,500 --> 00:01:53,033 Just, it's just made up. It's a made-up amount. 39 00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:55,633 Tell me about your agreement with him and what would make you think 40 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:58,265 that he was gonna be able to pay rent to you. 41 00:01:58,333 --> 00:02:00,934 Mr. Martinelli, when he moved in, 42 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,200 originally agreed to work with my boyfriend doing mason jobs. 43 00:02:04,266 --> 00:02:05,734 And he was very good about paying. 44 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,133 -Was he paying you cash in the rent? -Yes. 45 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:10,366 -And he was giving you $500? -Yes. 46 00:02:10,433 --> 00:02:13,266 However, he also did pay for cigarettes 47 00:02:13,333 --> 00:02:15,467 and he did buy his alcohol, 48 00:02:15,533 --> 00:02:17,966 even though the house rule was 49 00:02:18,033 --> 00:02:20,233 -no drinking in the house. -Yeah, I noticed that. 50 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:23,300 Is there a reason why you had a house rule no drinking in the house? 51 00:02:23,367 --> 00:02:26,867 -Yes, my boyfriend is a recovering... -Four years. Four and a half years. 52 00:02:26,934 --> 00:02:29,166 [Judge DiMango] You can step up, sir. Well, that's terrific. 53 00:02:29,233 --> 00:02:32,700 And I can understand you not wanting to have things around 54 00:02:32,767 --> 00:02:33,767 that are tempting. 55 00:02:33,834 --> 00:02:35,433 It's hard to be in recovery. 56 00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:37,033 And it's a long haul. 57 00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:38,233 -You knew that? -Yes. 58 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:41,767 And yet I saw text messages that you're drunk, you were drinking. 59 00:02:41,834 --> 00:02:43,533 That would've been enough to throw you right out 60 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,834 -on your A-S-S. -[Joseph] You're right. 61 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:47,066 -You're absolutely correct. -Yeah, I know I'm right. 62 00:02:47,133 --> 00:02:49,600 How could you do that to two people who care about you? 63 00:02:49,667 --> 00:02:51,367 Who gave you a home, gave you a home before, 64 00:02:51,433 --> 00:02:52,333 know you for years, 65 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,066 and you wanna jeopardize the work that he's put in for four and a half years? 66 00:02:56,133 --> 00:02:58,966 So what? So you could drown your sorrows? 67 00:02:59,033 --> 00:03:00,967 [Joseph] They make it sound like I drank all the time. 68 00:03:01,033 --> 00:03:02,300 [Judge DiMango] It doesn't matter. Once. 69 00:03:02,367 --> 00:03:04,000 -Once. -You're right. You're absolutely right. 70 00:03:04,066 --> 00:03:05,100 I mean, that's disgraceful. 71 00:03:05,166 --> 00:03:07,166 I'm going through recovery now, so I understand 72 00:03:07,233 --> 00:03:10,633 the problems that he would have to deal with. So, I do understand. 73 00:03:10,700 --> 00:03:13,834 I think that was very kind of you to let him continue to stay 74 00:03:13,900 --> 00:03:15,300 -despite that. -Joe is a friend. 75 00:03:15,367 --> 00:03:18,066 And I felt bad for this situation. We both did. 76 00:03:18,133 --> 00:03:21,133 We had known him a while and he had lived with us prior. 77 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,166 [Judge DiMango] So when does he move in? 78 00:03:23,233 --> 00:03:25,600 -He moves in... -He moved in in January of 2021. 79 00:03:25,667 --> 00:03:27,266 When did he stop paying? 80 00:03:27,333 --> 00:03:29,900 When he got a part-time job with Home Depot. 81 00:03:29,966 --> 00:03:31,800 -That's when he stopped paying? -Yes. 82 00:03:31,867 --> 00:03:34,567 That makes no sense. You're making money and then you don't pay? 83 00:03:34,633 --> 00:03:35,834 [Joseph] I'm making less money 84 00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:38,333 and pay periods were every two weeks instead of every single week. 85 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,667 So, when you moved in, what job did you have? 86 00:03:40,734 --> 00:03:43,000 Basically construction, I was working with Brian. 87 00:03:43,066 --> 00:03:45,066 Okay, so you're working construction with Brian. 88 00:03:45,133 --> 00:03:47,400 You have that money coming in. You're paying your rent. 89 00:03:47,466 --> 00:03:49,300 Then you get a job with Home Depot. 90 00:03:49,367 --> 00:03:50,767 -Less money? -Yes. 91 00:03:50,834 --> 00:03:53,033 -But you're still working for Brian? -Here and there. 92 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:54,667 I didn't have much time at that point. 93 00:03:54,734 --> 00:03:56,166 That's why you were turning down the jobs, 94 00:03:56,233 --> 00:03:57,233 -according to you. -Yeah. 95 00:03:57,300 --> 00:03:59,567 -And sometimes they didn't have them. -There were some days... 96 00:03:59,633 --> 00:04:02,266 Nevertheless, they don't look like your mother and father to me. 97 00:04:02,333 --> 00:04:03,967 I'm not sure why they would support you. 98 00:04:04,033 --> 00:04:05,133 -You're right. -So, 99 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,934 now you're making less money. And what do you do? 100 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,567 Do you give them anything? What do you give them? 101 00:04:09,633 --> 00:04:13,333 I was giving them the money every $250, every two weeks that I could. 102 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,633 And then there were some times that did lapse. 103 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:17,367 [Judge DiMango] So you say here that you know. 104 00:04:17,433 --> 00:04:19,266 You recognize that you owe them some money? 105 00:04:19,332 --> 00:04:20,667 -I recognize... -What do you think you owe them? 106 00:04:20,733 --> 00:04:23,133 About $2,500 to $2,800. 107 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,867 I'm gonna go with $2,800, 108 00:04:24,934 --> 00:04:25,834 that's what you're saying. 109 00:04:25,900 --> 00:04:28,367 I think it's more, but I'm gonna with that's what you admit to. 110 00:04:28,433 --> 00:04:31,332 That's for some rent. The loans, I did pay back. 111 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,900 I see a couple papers in here about sneakers and stuff like that, 112 00:04:33,967 --> 00:04:34,967 which I paid that back. 113 00:04:35,033 --> 00:04:37,200 The cigarette machine was paid back. The only thing that I... 114 00:04:37,266 --> 00:04:39,467 Did he pay you back for those things? 115 00:04:39,533 --> 00:04:43,000 He paid for the sneakers and, truly, I took the money back 116 00:04:43,066 --> 00:04:45,367 because he owed the rent at the end of the month... 117 00:04:45,433 --> 00:04:48,233 [Judge DiMango] I don't get that. You owe a total amount of money. 118 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:50,567 You don't just say here's $100, this goes to this. 119 00:04:50,633 --> 00:04:54,400 She's got $100, you owe her $600, you owe her $500 more. 120 00:04:54,467 --> 00:04:55,400 You're not disputing 121 00:04:55,467 --> 00:04:58,467 that you would owe her $82 for your cigarette machine, would you? 122 00:04:58,533 --> 00:04:59,800 Yes, but I gave her the money back. 123 00:04:59,867 --> 00:05:01,767 Like you said, whatever it went to, it went. 124 00:05:01,834 --> 00:05:03,467 Right. So when you say I'm right 125 00:05:03,533 --> 00:05:06,233 and then you continue to refute what I'm saying, 126 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:08,033 you can't possibly believe I'm right. 127 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:11,100 Because I said you owe her $82 for the cigarette machine. 128 00:05:11,166 --> 00:05:12,834 Because when the cigarette machine came in, 129 00:05:12,900 --> 00:05:14,533 and I gave her the $82, cash... 130 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,433 Then she must've said, "Okay, you owe me $9,000 in rent, 131 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:20,100 so let me put it towards rent." Who are you to say what it's for? 132 00:05:20,166 --> 00:05:21,166 That's why I'm saying... 133 00:05:21,233 --> 00:05:22,500 -Do you get this? -Yes. 134 00:05:22,567 --> 00:05:24,200 But the breakdowns are wrong. 135 00:05:24,266 --> 00:05:27,467 At one point she asked you to leave the apartment because it was so filthy. 136 00:05:27,533 --> 00:05:28,667 You weren't even cleaning up. 137 00:05:28,734 --> 00:05:30,533 He wasn't supposed to smoke in the house. 138 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,933 -He did. He lied to me about that. -Are you both trying to quit smoking too? 139 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,233 -[Donna] No, we don't smoke. -[laughter] 140 00:05:35,300 --> 00:05:37,233 I agree with you. I wouldn't want smoking in my house. 141 00:05:37,933 --> 00:05:39,867 You violated all of their rules. 142 00:05:39,933 --> 00:05:42,800 You owe them rent. You were turning down jobs. 143 00:05:42,867 --> 00:05:45,166 Do you consider yourself a good friend of theirs? 144 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:48,200 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice... 145 00:05:48,266 --> 00:05:50,066 So the fact that you don't have evidence 146 00:05:50,133 --> 00:05:52,867 so that you can show yourself and show us what it is, 147 00:05:52,933 --> 00:05:54,332 -is only on you. -You're right. 148 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,933 So explain to me what right you have to tell the only person 149 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,867 who was willing to help you out when you were down on your luck, 150 00:06:00,934 --> 00:06:02,367 with no place else to go, 151 00:06:02,433 --> 00:06:05,967 that she lied and fabricated because that $5,000 is so important. 152 00:06:06,033 --> 00:06:08,400 How do you do that with a straight face? 153 00:06:15,333 --> 00:06:19,934 [announcer] Donna Witt is suing her former friend, Joseph Martinelli Jr., 154 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,734 for living expenses and unpaid loans. 155 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,500 Joseph says Donna was disrespectful 156 00:06:25,567 --> 00:06:28,567 and is asking for an outrageous amount of money. 157 00:06:29,467 --> 00:06:31,867 Do you consider yourself a good friend of theirs? 158 00:06:31,934 --> 00:06:33,700 -I did. -If you had a good friend, 159 00:06:33,767 --> 00:06:36,033 is that how you'd want them to be treating you? 160 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:37,400 The way you treated them? 161 00:06:37,467 --> 00:06:40,266 No, but also, there was text messages after the fact, 162 00:06:40,332 --> 00:06:44,166 when I was about to start making payments, that was total disrespectfully. 163 00:06:44,233 --> 00:06:46,100 How would they have any respect for you by then? 164 00:06:46,166 --> 00:06:47,834 -How would they? -I guess not. 165 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:50,834 How would these two people, who put themselves out, 166 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:53,600 jeopardized their own health and safety, 167 00:06:53,667 --> 00:06:56,367 stinking up a house with smoke, 168 00:06:56,433 --> 00:06:57,700 not paying, 169 00:06:57,767 --> 00:06:59,767 not cleaning up after yourself, 170 00:06:59,834 --> 00:07:01,333 leaving things around... 171 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,300 How would you expect them to have respect for you? 172 00:07:04,367 --> 00:07:06,266 Let me ask you, when you hear something like that, 173 00:07:06,333 --> 00:07:08,567 -could you have respect for you? -No. 174 00:07:08,633 --> 00:07:10,734 -I'm assuming that you're in a program? -Yes. 175 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,233 -Are you in a 12-step program? -I'm an IOP. 176 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:15,100 -What is that? -Intense outpatient. 177 00:07:15,166 --> 00:07:16,967 They asked you to get your things out. 178 00:07:17,033 --> 00:07:19,000 Two months later, there's a text here in June. 179 00:07:19,066 --> 00:07:22,500 Please take your things out. You've got a bunch of junk in the garage. 180 00:07:22,567 --> 00:07:24,667 Bunch of things, golf clubs, whatever. 181 00:07:24,734 --> 00:07:27,767 And two months later, she says, "I told you two months ago 182 00:07:27,834 --> 00:07:31,033 I needed the space." And you could've gotten your things out. 183 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:34,700 This is when I was still living there. I had to find a place to put it all. 184 00:07:34,767 --> 00:07:37,100 But they are not your keepers, you know. 185 00:07:37,166 --> 00:07:38,967 This is the problem I have with people. 186 00:07:39,033 --> 00:07:41,066 It's like, "What was I supposed to do?" 187 00:07:41,133 --> 00:07:42,834 You're supposed to be... How old are you? 188 00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:43,900 [Joseph] Forty-five. 189 00:07:43,967 --> 00:07:46,332 You're responsible for yourself at that age, sir. 190 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,233 It's very sad what happened here 191 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:49,867 and how you let your life deteriorate, 192 00:07:49,933 --> 00:07:53,166 but I hope that in one of the steps you get to where you apologize, 193 00:07:53,233 --> 00:07:54,667 you apologize to them. 194 00:07:54,734 --> 00:07:56,933 -Judge Levy. -Thank you. Mr. Martinelli, 195 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,433 how many times was it that you stayed... 196 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:00,367 -I did stay with them once prior. -Okay. 197 00:08:00,433 --> 00:08:03,500 When I was actually, I was living at my father's helping them out 198 00:08:03,567 --> 00:08:04,900 and I had to get out, so. 199 00:08:04,967 --> 00:08:07,633 I was working with Brian at the time, so the offer was on the table to move in. 200 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:10,066 [Judge Levy] Do you have other family besides your father 201 00:08:10,133 --> 00:08:11,633 -in the New Jersey area? -Yeah. 202 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,233 So you have a lot of family? 203 00:08:13,300 --> 00:08:15,367 Would it be fair to say that, notwithstanding the fact 204 00:08:15,433 --> 00:08:17,200 that you have all this other family, 205 00:08:17,266 --> 00:08:18,800 that when things were getting rough, 206 00:08:18,867 --> 00:08:20,967 the one person that you can go to to help you out 207 00:08:21,033 --> 00:08:22,300 and put a roof over your head, 208 00:08:22,367 --> 00:08:25,133 and put food in the fridge, 209 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:26,767 and to provide you with gas money, 210 00:08:26,834 --> 00:08:28,367 -was the plaintiff? -Yes. 211 00:08:28,433 --> 00:08:31,200 And she didn't do it just once, she did it a couple of times for you. 212 00:08:31,266 --> 00:08:33,500 That's why I don't think that I was such a bad tenant. 213 00:08:33,567 --> 00:08:35,933 -She's just saying that. -The point I'm trying to make 214 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,366 is that you have blood relatives 215 00:08:38,433 --> 00:08:42,165 that you chose not to stay with when things were rough. 216 00:08:42,232 --> 00:08:44,734 And instead, you stayed in a, otherwise, 217 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,967 a complete stranger's home. A friend. 218 00:08:47,033 --> 00:08:49,033 But no one who has an obligation to you. 219 00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:52,000 No one who's related to you by blood or marriage. 220 00:08:52,066 --> 00:08:55,133 And you lived in her home, and she was making certain requests. 221 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,934 And either you agreed with them or you disagreed with them. 222 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,934 But that you knew there was a rent payment to be made. 223 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,367 And you did not make, consistently, those rent payments. 224 00:09:04,433 --> 00:09:05,433 -Right? -Yes. 225 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:07,333 You claim in your papers, 226 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,500 as well as you have here today, 227 00:09:09,567 --> 00:09:12,133 that you believe her figures, 228 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,367 the plaintiff's figures, were made up. 229 00:09:14,433 --> 00:09:17,333 "They just don't add up," is what you say. 230 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,967 Show me your ledger 231 00:09:20,033 --> 00:09:25,166 that you claim accurately represents the moneys that you paid 232 00:09:25,233 --> 00:09:28,400 and what you think you owe here. 233 00:09:28,467 --> 00:09:29,767 You're absolutely right, I don't have that. 234 00:09:29,834 --> 00:09:32,200 There was never a receipt given for any cash I exchanged. 235 00:09:32,266 --> 00:09:33,734 I'm not asking about a receipt. 236 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,066 -Don't put words in my mouth. -I didn't keep a ledger. 237 00:09:36,133 --> 00:09:40,066 So, the ledger that was provided by the plaintiff today, 238 00:09:40,133 --> 00:09:42,266 -and you've seen that, right? -I just saw it, yes. 239 00:09:42,333 --> 00:09:45,867 This is what you said, you do not agree with the tally of what's owed. 240 00:09:45,934 --> 00:09:48,066 And you think that her numbers are fabricated. 241 00:09:48,133 --> 00:09:49,133 Yes. 242 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,533 But yet the text messages that the plaintiff provided, 243 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,000 which meant that you had them too, 244 00:09:54,066 --> 00:09:56,767 whether you chose to look at them or not, I'm not interested in. 245 00:09:56,834 --> 00:10:00,867 These are the text messages that you sent to her 246 00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:03,500 when she sent to you this ledger. 247 00:10:03,567 --> 00:10:05,467 "I don't have a leg to stand on. 248 00:10:05,533 --> 00:10:07,200 I'm not arguing with you. 249 00:10:07,266 --> 00:10:10,133 I understand that was on the spreadsheet. 250 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,300 Like I said, it's fine. 251 00:10:12,367 --> 00:10:15,800 Give me a total. It is what it is." 252 00:10:15,867 --> 00:10:19,233 -And I never received a total. -What are you talking about? You got... 253 00:10:19,300 --> 00:10:20,734 Listen, Mr. Martinelli, 254 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,734 you got the very same spreadsheet with the very same totals 255 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:24,800 in those text messages. 256 00:10:24,867 --> 00:10:27,800 Whether or not you were drinking at the time and you don't remember, 257 00:10:27,867 --> 00:10:31,567 or whatever the reasons are, you can't sit there and under oath say 258 00:10:31,633 --> 00:10:34,033 that you have an independent recollection of never getting them. 259 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:36,333 I've never gotten that spreadsheet on text message. 260 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:37,633 Okay. On this one. Fine. 261 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:39,667 -That's why I asked for a total. -Okay. 262 00:10:39,734 --> 00:10:43,767 So, looking at this right now, the ones that were provided, 263 00:10:43,834 --> 00:10:47,433 are you able to testify to a reasonable degree of certainty 264 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:49,667 which figures are fabricated? 265 00:10:50,333 --> 00:10:51,533 Most of the rent. 266 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:52,500 That's what adds up. 267 00:10:52,567 --> 00:10:54,400 Everything on the bottom I know I owe her. 268 00:10:54,467 --> 00:10:56,567 Everything on the bottom. The sneakers? 269 00:10:56,633 --> 00:10:58,700 She put down that you paid her for that. 270 00:10:58,767 --> 00:11:00,133 That's not even included. 271 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,767 If she was looking to really screw you over, 272 00:11:02,834 --> 00:11:05,200 she'd have indicated that you didn't pay for the sneakers. 273 00:11:05,266 --> 00:11:08,500 You didn't pay for the sneakers. You didn't pay for portions of gas. 274 00:11:08,567 --> 00:11:10,367 You didn't pay for the cigarette paraphernalia. 275 00:11:10,433 --> 00:11:12,900 She would've indicated that you didn't pay her 276 00:11:12,967 --> 00:11:15,333 for the rent payments that she identifies you having paid 277 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,533 in the right-hand column. 278 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,333 She didn't. She puts all that down. 279 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,934 -You have no way to tell us now... -I don't have proof. 280 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,300 Exactly. So, if you have no proof, you know you have no proof, 281 00:11:24,367 --> 00:11:26,867 you know, by the way, that nothing that she did 282 00:11:26,934 --> 00:11:29,200 prevented you from making a ledger. 283 00:11:29,266 --> 00:11:30,233 -Right? -No. 284 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:32,100 So the fact that you don't have evidence 285 00:11:32,165 --> 00:11:34,900 so that you can show yourself and show us what it is, 286 00:11:34,967 --> 00:11:36,533 -is only on you. -You're right. 287 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,433 Right. So explain to me what right you have to tell the only person 288 00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:44,300 who was willing to help you out when you were down on your luck, 289 00:11:44,367 --> 00:11:46,033 with no place else to go, 290 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:49,700 that she lied and fabricated because that $5,000 is so important. 291 00:11:49,767 --> 00:11:51,767 How do you do that with a straight face? 292 00:11:51,834 --> 00:11:53,600 Because I can sit there and tell her I owe her money 293 00:11:53,667 --> 00:11:56,834 and I accept that I owe her money. I just don't agree that it's $5,800. 294 00:11:56,900 --> 00:12:00,266 [Judge Levy] Okay, you not agreeing that it's $5,800 295 00:12:00,333 --> 00:12:04,066 is different than saying she lied about it and she fabricated it. 296 00:12:04,133 --> 00:12:07,200 What I wanna know from you is what is your basis of knowledge 297 00:12:07,266 --> 00:12:10,300 in saying that she, this good woman who helped you out 298 00:12:10,367 --> 00:12:12,033 when no one in your family would, 299 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,967 lied and fabricated in order to extract from you 300 00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:17,066 money that you claim she's not entitled to. 301 00:12:17,133 --> 00:12:19,800 For me to say it's fabricated is if I believe it's $2,800 302 00:12:19,867 --> 00:12:21,834 and it's $5,800, that's fabricated. 303 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:25,767 What are you basing your statement that it's 28 and not 58? 304 00:12:25,834 --> 00:12:27,400 There's no paper trail of that, so. 305 00:12:27,467 --> 00:12:28,967 [Judge Levy] Thank you. I have nothing further. 306 00:12:29,033 --> 00:12:30,734 [Judge Acker] What are you basing it on? 307 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,600 I'm basing it on what I know I paid 308 00:12:32,667 --> 00:12:35,000 and what I didn't pay in the months that I didn't. 309 00:12:35,066 --> 00:12:36,967 I just didn't write it down on paper. 310 00:12:37,033 --> 00:12:38,600 Okay. So what months didn't you pay? 311 00:12:38,667 --> 00:12:40,734 [Joseph] I didn't pay the last three months. 312 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,934 -I don't know the... -You don't know the exact... 313 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,066 You're just pulling this stuff out of your you-know-what. 314 00:12:45,133 --> 00:12:46,834 -We're in court. -It's, it's five, 315 00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:48,767 five months, I believe it is. 316 00:12:48,834 --> 00:12:52,066 -It's five months' rent and then... -I feel like I'm at an auction. 317 00:12:52,133 --> 00:12:54,600 It's five months. It's 12. Can I get 12 months? 318 00:12:54,667 --> 00:12:56,967 I got two months. I got four, I got four months. 319 00:12:57,033 --> 00:12:58,767 That's what you're doing. This is court. 320 00:12:58,834 --> 00:12:59,834 [dramatic music plays] 321 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:01,967 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice... 322 00:13:02,033 --> 00:13:03,133 Joe, were you drinking? 323 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,333 No, that was during the day. 324 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,033 -Well, that didn't matter. -Were you drinking? 325 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:06,967 I wasn't, no. 326 00:13:07,033 --> 00:13:08,367 -Joe drank a lot. -I mean, come on. 327 00:13:08,433 --> 00:13:11,367 That's just rude. You know what? She's mad at you. 328 00:13:11,433 --> 00:13:13,233 [dramatic music plays] 329 00:13:16,367 --> 00:13:18,667 [dramatic music plays] 330 00:13:20,133 --> 00:13:22,500 You got mad at him because, I mean, 331 00:13:22,567 --> 00:13:25,834 some of the text messages are, "How can you come here and get drunk 332 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:28,000 and take a shower and not clean the bathroom?" 333 00:13:28,066 --> 00:13:30,667 I was, like, yeah, how could you do that? 334 00:13:30,734 --> 00:13:32,300 Why don't you just clean the bathroom? 335 00:13:32,367 --> 00:13:34,133 She's mad, not just because of the money. 336 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,800 I think she feels disrespected. 337 00:13:35,867 --> 00:13:37,300 -Am I right? -Absolutely. 338 00:13:37,367 --> 00:13:40,133 Somebody comes to your house, they take your money, 339 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:41,734 because you care about them, 340 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,767 and then they don't clean up after themselves? 341 00:13:43,834 --> 00:13:45,500 She felt disrespected too. 342 00:13:45,567 --> 00:13:48,967 I understand we've got a video where you discuss this. 343 00:13:49,033 --> 00:13:50,967 Let's take a look at the video, and then you can tell us 344 00:13:51,033 --> 00:13:52,400 -what we're seeing. -Yes. 345 00:13:52,467 --> 00:13:54,233 [scraping noises on video] 346 00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:57,266 C'mon, Lenny, alright? What's wrong with you? 347 00:13:58,767 --> 00:14:00,467 Ya know, I'm not taking this ____. 348 00:14:00,533 --> 00:14:02,533 -[Judge Acker] What's happening here? -Filling ice. 349 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,867 Joe is in my kitchen getting ice, 350 00:14:04,934 --> 00:14:07,266 and my dog had gotten into the garbage. 351 00:14:07,333 --> 00:14:08,333 My dog is diabetic 352 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,934 and should not be eating garbage, especially. 353 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,667 But I come home, and I discover garbage all over the floor. 354 00:14:13,734 --> 00:14:17,000 I said to Joe, "Did you know when he had gotten into the garbage?" 355 00:14:17,066 --> 00:14:18,233 He goes, "I didn't see a thing." 356 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:21,233 The camera in the kitchen proved otherwise. 357 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:24,266 Joe not only saw when he had gotten into the garbage, 358 00:14:24,333 --> 00:14:26,767 but looked at it, stepped over it, 359 00:14:26,834 --> 00:14:28,266 got himself some ice, 360 00:14:28,333 --> 00:14:30,667 said, "Come on, Lenny, what's wrong with you?" 361 00:14:30,734 --> 00:14:34,000 And then said to himself, out loud, "I'm not picking this up." 362 00:14:34,066 --> 00:14:36,000 -Joe. -...and walked out again. 363 00:14:36,066 --> 00:14:37,667 Joe, were you drinking? 364 00:14:37,734 --> 00:14:39,600 No, that was during the day. That was early. 365 00:14:39,667 --> 00:14:41,300 -[Donna] That didn't matter. -Were you drinking? 366 00:14:41,367 --> 00:14:42,367 No, I wasn't. 367 00:14:42,433 --> 00:14:44,433 -[Donna] Joe drank a lot. -I mean, come on, that's just rude. 368 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,266 Now, as a good standup human being in the world, 369 00:14:47,333 --> 00:14:50,100 he should have been cleaning up after himself, as he didn't do. 370 00:14:50,165 --> 00:14:51,834 He should have been giving you money. 371 00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:53,800 He should have been saying to you, sir-- 372 00:14:53,867 --> 00:14:56,066 and by the way, congratulations on your recovery. 373 00:14:56,133 --> 00:14:57,700 -Thank you. -He should have been saying, 374 00:14:57,767 --> 00:14:59,934 "Where can we go work? Let's go find some work, man! 375 00:15:00,066 --> 00:15:01,066 I'm there for you." 376 00:15:01,133 --> 00:15:04,667 That's what good, standup, grownup adults do. 377 00:15:04,734 --> 00:15:07,200 That's different from having a legal obligation 378 00:15:07,266 --> 00:15:09,100 to do something or to pay some money. 379 00:15:09,166 --> 00:15:13,066 So when I see you doing things like buying him a cigarette machine 380 00:15:13,133 --> 00:15:14,734 so he can roll his own cigarettes... 381 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,700 -You get where I'm going with this. -I do get where you're going with it. 382 00:15:17,767 --> 00:15:20,600 It's not him who's got to prove it, it's you who has to prove it. 383 00:15:20,667 --> 00:15:21,667 -So... -I understand. 384 00:15:21,734 --> 00:15:23,333 There is verbal agreement as well. 385 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,734 I mean, that is what we have here. 386 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,834 I do have it in texting. 387 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,934 As much as he's saying that it isn't there, it is here. 388 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,767 [Judge Acker] And you did send him the spreadsheet. 389 00:15:32,834 --> 00:15:33,934 Right, he has had the spreadsheet. 390 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,333 And you acknowledged it. 391 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,900 And Brian has been witness to it 392 00:15:36,967 --> 00:15:39,333 because there was an incident on the deck one night 393 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,200 where I gave him a copy of this with the total. 394 00:15:42,266 --> 00:15:43,734 And he did look at me and he said, 395 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,900 "I'm gonna be dead before I pay this off to you." 396 00:15:45,967 --> 00:15:48,900 If you give him some money hoping that he's gonna do the right thing... 397 00:15:48,967 --> 00:15:50,700 I don't know that you have a contract. 398 00:15:50,767 --> 00:15:52,333 If you give him some money 399 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,333 only conditioned on him paying you back, 400 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,133 then that becomes legally enforceable. 401 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,133 Mr. Martinelli, and I congratulate you too on your attempts to become sober. 402 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,734 I mean, I know people who've gone through it. It's tough. 403 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,266 -Part of it is accepting responsibility. -Of course. 404 00:16:08,333 --> 00:16:10,367 And there are clearly some things 405 00:16:10,433 --> 00:16:12,500 that happened between the two of you, personally, 406 00:16:12,567 --> 00:16:16,500 that have resulted in your trying to disclaim responsibility. 407 00:16:16,567 --> 00:16:19,100 I took note of when you said she was being disrespectful. 408 00:16:19,166 --> 00:16:22,166 In what way do you claim her alleged disrespect, 409 00:16:22,233 --> 00:16:26,367 however you define that, absolves you of any duty to pay her back? 410 00:16:26,433 --> 00:16:28,767 Just being compared to a certain other gentleman 411 00:16:28,834 --> 00:16:32,200 that nobody else likes in this courtroom, and I was compared to that. 412 00:16:32,266 --> 00:16:33,367 You just got mad. 413 00:16:33,433 --> 00:16:34,633 -You're right. -You got mad at her. 414 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:36,266 And because you got mad at her, 415 00:16:36,333 --> 00:16:38,266 because she was coming at you a little hard, 416 00:16:38,333 --> 00:16:40,333 you got your back up and said I'm not gonna pay. 417 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:41,500 I don't have anything further. 418 00:16:41,567 --> 00:16:43,700 [Judge DiMango] We're gonna retire to deliberate. Thank you both. 419 00:16:43,767 --> 00:16:46,500 [Byrd] Court now stands in recess. Parties are excused. 420 00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,333 I wanna distinguish between the loans that she made him 421 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,500 for personal items, like the trip and the cigarette rolling machine 422 00:16:55,567 --> 00:16:57,867 and the sneakers and all, versus the rent. 423 00:16:57,934 --> 00:16:59,734 Because I feel the same way. 424 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,667 If you have somebody living with you 425 00:17:01,734 --> 00:17:03,433 and they're not paying their rent obligation, 426 00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:05,532 why would you loan them money 427 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,066 with an expectation of repayment 428 00:17:07,133 --> 00:17:09,467 when they can't even repay you the rent? 429 00:17:09,532 --> 00:17:12,433 In fact, she's taking the money and putting it more towards the rent 430 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,633 than towards the repayment of these items. 431 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,567 So by the time she made those loans, 432 00:17:16,633 --> 00:17:19,165 she did not have a reasonable expectation for repayment. 433 00:17:19,233 --> 00:17:21,266 So if we look at her living expenses, 434 00:17:21,333 --> 00:17:24,934 and I believe her with her spreadsheet that he owes $5,520. 435 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,934 Even if we took off the $350 that she said he owes her in loans, 436 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,633 that brings us to $5,170. 437 00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:32,500 She's still at her $5,000 mark. 438 00:17:32,567 --> 00:17:35,100 We can live with ourselves legally as professionals 439 00:17:35,166 --> 00:17:38,166 the we feel confident that the loans were not gonna be repaid back. 440 00:17:38,233 --> 00:17:40,266 And she still gets what she wants in the end. 441 00:17:40,333 --> 00:17:42,367 And it kind of teaches a lesson as well. 442 00:17:42,433 --> 00:17:44,233 So, I'm good with the $5,000. 443 00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,967 And not necessarily including in that the loans. 444 00:17:47,033 --> 00:17:48,266 [Judge Acker] I will say this, 445 00:17:48,333 --> 00:17:50,567 his concessions helped convince me, you know. 446 00:17:50,633 --> 00:17:53,934 He said, "I was gonna pay her back for the trip and the cigarette machine." 447 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,400 -$5,000. -[Judge DiMango] Either way? 448 00:17:55,467 --> 00:17:56,900 $5,000 either way. 449 00:17:56,967 --> 00:17:58,533 -I agree. -Either way. Yeah, I do too. 450 00:17:58,600 --> 00:17:59,934 The only thing I will say is that, 451 00:18:00,066 --> 00:18:02,700 and it's so important when you have oral agreements, 452 00:18:02,767 --> 00:18:03,767 they come into court 453 00:18:03,834 --> 00:18:06,066 and you see text messages in which the defendant will say, 454 00:18:06,133 --> 00:18:08,867 "We don't have a written contract, so good luck in court." 455 00:18:08,934 --> 00:18:12,734 Which is why emails and text messages and other writings are so important. 456 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,200 And so too, in this case, 457 00:18:14,266 --> 00:18:17,533 he was asking to borrow $20 for gas and this and that, 458 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,367 and he was promising at that time when he made those requests 459 00:18:20,433 --> 00:18:21,800 to pay it back on Monday. 460 00:18:21,867 --> 00:18:24,166 "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." 461 00:18:24,233 --> 00:18:25,867 -That's what was going on. -That's my line. 462 00:18:25,934 --> 00:18:27,834 He wasn't paying the rent that he was supposed to, 463 00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:30,900 but he was also asking to borrow money and to pay it back. 464 00:18:30,967 --> 00:18:32,934 -Right. -The $5,000 is fair, 465 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,133 and it's supported by the evidence. 466 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,300 Absolutely. We're unanimous. Very good. 467 00:18:36,367 --> 00:18:38,600 [dramatic music plays] 468 00:18:38,667 --> 00:18:39,900 Court is back in session. 469 00:18:39,967 --> 00:18:41,567 Parties are reminded you're still under oath. 470 00:18:41,633 --> 00:18:42,734 [Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd. 471 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,600 Well, sir, it is what it is, you said. Well, we're gonna tell you what it is. 472 00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:48,867 This is what it is. You owe her $5,000. 473 00:18:48,934 --> 00:18:50,834 She kept a tally of it. 474 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:52,867 She marked down each day you paid 475 00:18:52,934 --> 00:18:55,600 whether or not you thought the money should go to loans 476 00:18:55,667 --> 00:18:58,200 or what you thought she should apply it to-- 477 00:18:58,266 --> 00:19:00,867 a new hairstyle, her car, whatever. 478 00:19:00,934 --> 00:19:03,633 She used it the way she needed it. 479 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,967 You owed it. She has proof of it. 480 00:19:06,033 --> 00:19:07,533 You have zippo. 481 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,200 You just weren't a good house guest. 482 00:19:09,266 --> 00:19:10,900 I gotta be really honest with you, 483 00:19:10,967 --> 00:19:12,700 you were a terrible house guest. 484 00:19:12,767 --> 00:19:14,100 So you gotta, you know, 485 00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:17,533 pick up on some of your house cleaning and living skills. 486 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,533 And you and your boyfriend were extremely generous 487 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,767 in taking him in and being a good friend 488 00:19:22,834 --> 00:19:24,400 and wanting to see him move along. 489 00:19:24,467 --> 00:19:28,000 And all of us wanted to make sure, when we looked at this evidence, 490 00:19:28,066 --> 00:19:30,834 we were pretty clear that you were entitled to what you asked for 491 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:33,433 because we didn't want you to lose out on a penny. 492 00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:34,500 -Thank you. -And you didn't. 493 00:19:34,567 --> 00:19:37,900 You got $5,000. Go on a trip someplace warm. 494 00:19:37,967 --> 00:19:40,533 Verdict in your favor, unanimously, $5,000. 495 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,667 Thanks so much. 496 00:19:41,734 --> 00:19:44,433 [Byrd] This case is concluded. Parties are excused. You may step out. 497 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,600 I don't agree with the total, but, listen, it is what it is. 498 00:19:49,667 --> 00:19:52,600 I-I said that on record, so I guess I have to go with it. 499 00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:56,066 I'm just really happy that this is over and, and done with, 500 00:19:56,133 --> 00:19:58,300 and to, to my favor. 501 00:19:58,367 --> 00:20:00,233 I was just always put in the middle and I'd be the bad one, 502 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:01,467 so that's just the way it is. 503 00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:03,767 I have absolutely no idea what he's talking about. 504 00:20:03,834 --> 00:20:05,867 Yeah, I still talk to her boyfriend, so. 505 00:20:05,934 --> 00:20:07,734 If he needs a mason, I'll be there for him. 506 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,867 I've been friends with Joe for about 20, 25 years. 507 00:20:10,934 --> 00:20:14,200 And he's always been a lazy guy, but he's always a good friend. 508 00:20:15,066 --> 00:20:16,633 [announcer] Need to take someone to court? 509 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:20,000 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 510 00:20:20,066 --> 00:20:23,000 Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice. 511 00:20:23,066 --> 00:20:26,000 [closing theme music plays]