Whether I had a quarter, dime or nickel,
I was going to Vegas.
[announcer] Today on Tribunal Justice.
So this woman was basically gonna cover your trip.
-She offered all of this. -This is you, ma'am.
"Your so-called loan was a blessing."
Usually we deal with, is it a gift or a loan?
Now we've got to say, is it a gift,
a loan, or a blessing?
[announcer] This case was filed
in Toledo, Ohio.
Your Honor, this is case # 1111,
in the matter of Roy v. Harris.
Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
-[Patricia] Thank you, Byrd. -[Byrd] You're welcome, Judge.
Miss Roy and Miss Harris,
you used to be high school classmates.
You reunited a couple of years ago.
And you decided with five other girls--
There were seven in total.
--to take a trip to Vegas this past October.
As the time neared, however,
you started to discuss with Miss Roy
the fact that you were having some financial difficulties.
You didn't think you'd be able to make the trip.
She said she'd give you $200.
Left it in your mailbox with a note that said,
"Be blessed."
Which you say she agreed to repay
on the Friday that she got her paycheck.
You, however, also decided to start the trip early.
It was really a Thursday-through-Sunday trip.
But, Miss Roy, you booked a hotel before the air B&B
and went down Tuesday/Wednesday.
Some of the girls--
Three of them, including you.
--joined you at the hotel on that Wednesday evening.
They were gonna divide the bill, pay you $75 a person.
You start the trip, you go to a cannabis dispensary.
You are asked by the defendant to loan you $25
so that she could buy some cannabis.
She again promises she's gonna pay you on Friday.
Friday comes and goes.
You don't get any money from her,
and you don't even get an acknowledgement
that there's a debt.
At some point, you confront her about this.
She says, "Well, you know what? I don't even owe you money,
because the $200 was a blessing from you."
Okay? So let's start with that.
Because usually we deal with, is it a gift or a loan?
Now we've got to say, is it a gift,
-a loan, or a blessing? -[Harris] Mm-hmm.
[spectators laugh]
Mm-hmm.
[Patricia] So let's start.
You have to prove to us that this was money
that you gave her with an intent to have her repay,
and that she was in a position to repay you,
so your expectation was reasonable.
-So you're on. Let's go. -[Roy] Your Honor,
prior to the week going into Vegas,
Miss Harris, or Antonette,
we were talking on the phone,
and she was telling me about the things
that were coming up that was shortening the money
that she had available to go to Vegas with.
I offered to loan her $200,
because actually, the air B&B was supposed to be booked
on the Wednesday, but it wasn't booked accordingly
to what our original plans were.
So I ended up getting a room.
Now, you admit that you had a conversation with her
where you were saying all these other things popped up,
and you had obligations.
And so you really didn't think you could make the trip.
-Would that be correct? -Well, no.
It's not that I wouldn't be able to make the trip,
because the trip was already pair for.
It was about spending cash.
-[Patricia] To do other things? -Yes.
[Patricia] The dinners, and gifts, and whatever.
Okay, so you give her the $200.
And does she promise to pay you back?
Yes, she does.
Do you have that in the messages here?
[Roy] Yes, I do.
Did you have them before
you gave her the money, or after?
It was a conversation prior to her
actually receiving the money. -[Patricia] Phone conversations?
-[Roy] Yes. -[Patricia] No text messages?
Uh, could have been a mixture of both.
-Because we do both. -[Patricia] Okay.
So let me tell you what I have here.
This is you, ma'am.
"Your so-called loan was a blessing
"in your words, hon.
"But throw slugs if you must. I called you back.
Enjoy your day."
This is a fight over whether this is a blessing or not.
There are several text messages, Your Honor
that I have that Rachelle offered this $200.
There was no way I was going to be able to pay anything back,
due to what was going on in my personal life.
[Patricia] What about the $25 for the cannabis?
There was no $25 for the cannabis.
There was no money given to me once I got to Vegas,
because she already gave me--
-What about the $75? -[Harris] There was no agreement
to pay $75 on a hotel room,
because she went down there two days--
So this woman was basically going to cover your trip,
-and extras? -[Harris] No, Your Honor.
Like you said, she went down there Tuesday
before we were supposed to be down there Thursday.
She offered all of this.
That's all I can say, Your Honor.
I have the text messages.
[Patricia] Show me where you asked her for $75.
[Roy] I don't have the $75
in the text message.
I just have my itinerary that I had a room.
When do you get paid?
[Harris] Every two weeks. Fridays.
[Patricia] Yeah, well, how would she know that
unless you promised to pay her back on Friday?
Because every one of your messages says,
"I'll pay you back on Friday."
Your Honor, she offered me $200.
Like I said, I have text messages to say it.
When we came back from Vegas,
she turned the offer, the blessing, the gift,
whatever you want to call it, into a loan
because she was upset--
Well, how about I want to call it a loan?
Okay, that's fine, Your Honor. I'm not arguing with you.
Whatever you want to call it. If you want to call it a loan.
[Patricia] So I have something here
that's dated October 3rd, and this is the plaintiff.
"After walking and thinking,
"I'mma just stick with loaning the 200 to you."
And then it says, "I thought that's what you were doing."
-I'm not disputing that. -[Patricia] Well, therefore,
if you're not disputing it's a loan,
what's the argument here? Why didn't you just pay her?
Because it started out as a blessing, an offer,
and now it's a loan when we come back from Vegas
because of the stuff that went on.
-[Patricia] Miss Harris! -Yes, ma'am.
Enough.
-[Harris] Okay. -Judge Levy.
[Adam] Miss Roy, can you think of any reason
Miss Harris would have thought that the $200
was a gift from you and not a loan?
Because of a relationship I had with another gentleman.
And I had loaned him some money,
and he didn't give me all my money back.
So I guess she figured that she's in the same position,
that she can have the authority to have my money as well.
So you're saying that she was aware,
based upon a relationship with you,
and her knowledge of your relationship
with this other man,
that there was money that you gave to him
that was loaned to him,
and that's the reason that she thought it was a gift.
-Not a loan, a gift. -[Roy] I guess so, sir.
Could you think of any other reason?
I have no idea,
because as she states in the text messages,
she's offering to pay me back.
[Adam] Did you know before you came in today
that it was your friend's position, Miss Harris,
that this was a gift and it wasn't a loan,
and it was consistent with other gifts that you made
to other people?
Did you know that before you came in,
that that was her position?
I'm not saying that it was true.
But you knew that that was her position, right?
Somewhat. I haven't-- Actually,
this is the first time I've seen her since Vegas.
I have not seen her since we left Vegas, so, no.
Miss Roy, I ask questions for a reason.
-[Roy] Okay. -Right?
And so my question was simple.
Did you know, when you were coming in today to testify,
that it was the defendant's position
that the $200 that you gave her
was not a loan, but was rather a gift?
-Yes. -You did know that?
-Yes. -[Adam] Okay.
Notwithstanding your prior testimony
that you can think of no other reason why she would think
that the $200 was a gift and not a loan,
you do recall a group text message
that you participated in with the defendant
and others in your group regarding Vegas.
Yes, we had several.
[Adam] And one of those other women
was a Dionne.
Why don't you tell me about any offer that you made to her
regarding a loan or a gift because or your knowledge
that, like the defendant,
was having financial difficulties
and was not gonna be able to make the girls' trip,
which was very important to you.
Tell me what your recollection is of those text messages.
[Roy] Okay. Dionne had informed us,
or at least informed Antonette
that she wasn't gonna be able to go on the trip.
And this was like a couple of days prior to us leaving.
She said her vehicle wasn't working,
and she wouldn't be able to have the money to go.
And I felt bad, because she doesn't get out
to go often to places.
So I did offer to give her $300.
And she was like, "No, I don't want to take it."
And I told her, I actually told her she could have it.
So let me see if I can unpackage some of that.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
But I just want to make clear
that the defendant specifically mentioned
to you in a text
that the blessing comment was in an envelope
in the mailbox that you left her,
and you never responded contradicting that claim.
That's an admission by you that what she said was accurate.
-You understand that? -No.
[announcer] Rachelle Roy is suing
her high school friend, Antonette Harris,
for travelling expenses to Vegas.
Antonette claims Rachelle
generously gifted her the money as a blessing,
which is not a loan.
You said to Dionne that you would loan her $300 to go.
-Yes. -"We have come way too far."
And then Dionne said to you, "I'm not borrowing from anyone."
-[Roy] Yes. -And then you said,
"You only have one life to live. I'll give it to you."
Yes. Enjoy life.
Now, the defendant was a participant
in that group text, right?
-Yes. -So notwithstanding
your prior sworn testimony that the only reason
you can think of that the defendant thought
that the money you gave to her was a gift and not a loan
was because of this man that you mentioned, right?
That's the only reason I can think.
[Adam] But now, when I bring to your attention
the group text message that she was actually a participant of,
that refreshes your recollection
to give you another reason why she would think it was a gift
and not a loan.
Well, no, because I was actually giving Dionne the money.
There was never a time that I said
I was giving Antonette the money.
Great, show me any text or any communication
that you have prior to September 27th, 2022,
in which you said to the defendant,
"I am loaning you $200."
It didn't happen before September 27.
It happened after September. It was in October.
[Adam] So let me put this in perspective.
Before September 27th,
you were speaking with the defendant,
and the defendant told you
that she was having financial problems
and she may not be able to go.
-Right? -No, she was always gonna go.
She just wasn't gonna have any money to spend
while she was there.
Okay, so you're saying, though,
that you acknowledge that she said
that she was having financial problems.
-Correct. -The same type of problems
that Dionne was having.
Um, I guess they were similar.
Okay, so why didn't you then provide us
with the group text message from October 8th
for the money, the $200 that you gave to her,
was a gift like the one you gave to Dionne,
and not a loan?
You had that text, right?
You were part of that group chain.
Yeah, but that group chain didn't have anything to do
with the loan that was between Antonette and myself.
That was between Dionne wanting to go on the trip.
And Dionne never even took the money.
I understand. I understand your position.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it.
She also provided the defendant a text message from you
that you'll have "At least a thousand dollars for Vegas
"I probably won't need,
so don't sweat the little stuff."
I didn't hear you mention that at all to Judge DiMango.
And, quite frankly, I'm surprised.
If you wanted to make sure that your testimony here
and the evidence that you provided was complete,
thorough and accurate,
I was surprised that you didn't provide that text.
You send her a text that you're taking a thousand dollars,
you probably won't need it, so don't sweat the small stuff.
Tell me, in that statement that you made to her,
where there's anything that you mention about a loan.
I originally mentioned in the text message
that thousand dollars was my own spending money
that I saved for myself.
I told her, "Don't sweat the little things"
because I had money to go to Vegas and help her too.
[Adam] So that $25 that you say you lent her
to go to the dispensary,
that's that little stuff you were talking about?
-Yes. -[Adam] That's inconsistent
with the statement that you made to Judge DiMango.
Your Honor, that's also a statement that was made
before we got to Vegas,
so I knew nothing about what I would loan her
once we got to Vegas.
All right. Well, I get it.
Finally, now, the defendant's position,
if I understand you correctly, ma'am,
is that the only reason why that you were agreeing
to give her back the money on Friday or whatever it was,
because she was all over you and she wouldn't let things go.
-Yes, Your Honor. -It was your clear understanding
that the money that she gave, the $200,
was as a result of you saying,
"I don't have the money. I won't be able to go."
The plaintiff wanted to go very badly,
and so she gave that up to you
without any expectation of repayment.
-Yes, Your Honor. -[Adam] Right? November 13th.
Defendant to you, ma'am.
"I don't owe you or anybody else."
That's what she says.
"You're coming back to collect on a blessing.
"I had the envelope you put in my mailbox
"without my knowledge,
"and then called me to say 'check your mailbox.'"
But I just want to make clear,
you never responded contradicting that claim.
That's an admission by you that what she said was accurate.
-You understand that? -No, I don't.
That's okay. I do. That's what's important.
-[Roy] Thank you, Your Honor. -In response to that, though,
on November 14th, what you say to her:
"You can't keep my money.
"No, you are not.
You knew about the $200 because you needed it."
You remember sending that message?
-I did. -[Adam] What's this dichotomy?
The difference between what you want people to think you are:
a caring, generous woman who blesses people with money,
and what you actually are,
which is what that text message says.
You follow what I'm saying?
Yeah. After several times of asking her for my money
and she don't give it to me, I would get a little angry.
[Adam] I got it. Thank you very much.
Judge Acker.
Let's start with your first position.
You were gonna go on the trip, but you had no money.
How was that gonna work in Vegas?
The money was already paid for the trip,
so the trip was paid for.
So in my text messages, I told Rachelle
whether I had a quarter, dime or nickel,
I was going to Vegas.
And so how was that going to work?
So when you say the trip was paid for,
what components of the trip were paid for?
It was the house, and our T-shirt,
and the food and alcohol that would be in the house.
So it was your plan to just go to Vegas,
stay in the house and never leave the house?
No, well, we were gonna do some--
But you didn't have any money.
Well, because the girl that took over with the trip with me
had been to Vegas several times before,
and she said you don't need the kind of money
that Rachelle was talking about bringing to Vegas
to enjoy Vegas.
Because I had never been to Vegas, Your Honor.
Well, Rachelle wanted to do Vegas
in the way that Rachelle wanted to do Vegas.
-[Harris] Yes, Your Honor. -You had a way
of doing Vegas on a budget.
But instead of doing Vegas on a budget,
you took Rachelle's way
because she wanted to go the money way.
And so I find it a little curious that now,
Rachelle is the bad person for having given you some money.
I mean, if you wanted to do Vegas free,
then why not just say to Rachelle,
"I don't want your money. I don't want the drama.
I'm just gonna hang with free."
[Harris] But, Your Honor, like I said,
there are text messages where I told Rachelle
it didn't matter if I had a quarter, nickel, or dime,
I was going to Vegas.
Rachelle knew I lost my mama Christmas of 2018.
I lost an aunt December 5th, 2021.
I just lost an uncle this Monday.
My sister has cancer.
I was going to Vegas just to relax.
I didn't care if I did any excursions.
Did she know all of these things?
-[Harris] Yes, she was very-- -Hold on.
So did you know all these things had gone on?
Some of those things.
[Tanya] And you knew she didn't have any money.
-Yes. -[Tanya] Yes?
So then how reasonable
is it to now come to court and say, "I'm gonna sue you"?
Look, I can imagine having a hope and a prayer
that, you know, I'm gonna give my girl some money.
Maybe she's gonna have a good time in Vegas,
do better than she plans,
and roll some of it back to me.
I can see that.
But what I'm not sure of
is whether or not you have a legally binding
expectation that she was gonna pay you back money
you already knew she didn't have in the first place.
And I do believe her when she says that she had a way
to do Vegas on a budget
You can do Vegas on a budget.
I just want that to sit with you,
because right now I'm kind of like,
you can't get blood from a stone.
And she told you she didn't have the money at the outset.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
I'm gonna tell you this right now,
but you're making her case for her, frankly.
Like, if you had not said a word,
you would have no case as far as I see it.
But you have continued to suggest to her
you were gonna make these payments.
I'm interested in what she said to you about repayment
before you gave her the cash
and before everything went down in Vegas.
She's still waiting on taxes that she didn't get back
for several years.
So that's why I was confident
that she was gonna have some money after the fact.
[Tanya] Did you suggest to the plaintiff
that you were gonna reimburse her some of this money
-when you got a tax refund? -[Harris] I never said that.
Like I said again in my messages,
I told Rachelle, if you're feeling convicted,
if you're feeling some type of way,
don't go out of the way.
Because she was always talking about
how she pours into people,
and no one pours back into her.
So I did see those text messages about pouring in,
-and you said to her... -[Harris] I did.
...you said to her, "You are pouring into people,
and you are not getting it back."
And you did keep making these representations
that you were going to pay her.
And I'm gonna tell you this right now,
but you're making her case for her, frankly.
Like, if you had not said a word,
you would have no case as far as I see it.
But you have continued to suggest to her
you were gonna make these payments.
-Right, because-- -Did you give her back anything?
No, because I didn't feel that I owed her anything
based off the conversation,
and she knew about the situation that was going on.
The trip was stressful.
A lot of stuff happened behind the trip,
because of what was going on in my personal life.
Like I said, I was dealing with deaths.
My sister got cancer the third time around.
[Tanya] I understand your position.
-I understand your position. -It was just a lot.
Anyway, I think I have enough. Judge DiMango?
I don't have anything further at this point,
so I think that we're going to retire
to deliberate in this matter.
Thank you both.
Court is now in recess. Parties are excused.
For me, I think I agree with you.
She made the plaintiff's case when she said,
"I really wanted to do this on a budget."
She wanted $500 with her. She said she had 3.
So all this thing about,
"If I would have gone with a nickel and stayed in the room,"
I really have a problem with that position.
I think it was a very blessed loan,
and I think that she's entitled to the 200.
As to the $75, I saw no evidence
that anybody was dividing anything by 75.
And there was a text in here where she says,
"And you owe me the $25" right here.
"This is your second payday. You didn't pay.
"And my weed money was supposed to come back
as fast as the weed was smoked."
-[laughs] Well, there's that. -So there's that.
So I'm willing to give her the $200.
Though I think she gave her the money for the weed,
I didn't see how much it was.
So there's no evidence that it was $25.
I don't know how anybody else feels.
The only issue is whether or not the plaintiff proved
that the money was a loan
with an expectation of repayment,
or whether or not there was no expectation of payment
as the plaintiff said.
That's the issue.
And when I asked the plaintiff,
Can you think of any reason why the defendant
would have thought that this was a gift
without an expectation of payment?
And she completely omitted
the conversation that she, the plaintiff,
had with all the other ladies
in which the plaintiff very clearly said first it's a loan,
and then when I know about your financial situation,
now I'm gonna make it a gift.
She omitted that.
And that's because, in my mind, a guilty mind needs no accuser.
She knew exactly why the defendant thought
that this was a gift and not a loan,
because of that text.
I think that the defendant convinced me
-that this was a loan. -Me too.
I think that if it was really a gift,
when all of these horrible things
are happening in her life,
she's like, hey, I don't have the money.
I was never gonna give you the money.
And why are you coming at me like this?
I mean, the defendant treated it like a loan.
The defendant is the one who acted as if
she had an intention to repay.
So I would award the plaintiff,
as to your point, Patricia,
just the $200 that I think was the loan.
I don't know anything about the weed money.
There's not enough in the record for that for me.
-I'll dissent. -Okay.
Thank you.
Court is back in session.
Parties are reminded you're still under oath.
[Patricia] Thank you, Byrd.
Well, we were a convicted, conflicted bench.
Because we have a majority of two and a dissent of one.
I'll begin with the dissent, which was Judge Levy.
Miss Roy, Judge Levy didn't think
that you proved your case via preponderance of evidence.
Judge Acker and I felt that you did,
with a little help from a friend.
And that friend was the defendant.
And that therefore, you did meet your burden,
and you would be entitled to the $200.
Neither of you helped yourselves
with regard to the $25 dispensary money,
because even though there is evidence in there
that you might have gone to a dispensary
and made a purchase,
there's no evidence as to how much that was.
And there is no evidence that there was any $75 agreement
by the defendant or anyone to repay you for the room.
The $200 appeared to Judge and Acker and I
to be money that you gave the defendant,
that you expected back,
and therefore there was a valid and binding oral agreement
between the two of you.
And I just have to say, personally,
you're blessed when you have good friends,
when you have your health, when you have your family.
That's blessed. People giving you money,
that's all stuff the two of you are making up in your heads
to kind of back your positions up with God and religion.
The two of you are blessed, as we all are here.
So the bottom line is, go about your lives.
You get your $200.
And, you know, you wouldn't have gone
with a quarter in your pocket.
You've said it several times.
And that's the verdict of the court:
$200 in favor of the plaintiff.
[Byrd] This case is now concluded.
Parties are excused. You may step out.
Well, you know, people say one thing and they do another.
So like I said, the judge was gonna have to tell me
I owed her the money.
I was not paying her the money,
because I know what she said.
I didn't say nothing different.
She knew it was a loan.
A loan is a loan.
I'm not trying to pay for nobody to go to Vegas.
She had just the same time I had
to save for her money for trip.
That was just too old to be here going through stuff like this.
It's just sad that a friendship
had to be diminished again over money.
Oh, I had the best time!
I had the greatest time.
And that was the problem: I had the fun, they didn't.
Women are trouble. [laughs]
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