[Patricia] You say he's a con artist.
[narrator] Today on Tribunal Justice...
You stayed there 10 months without paying rent.
No, that's incorrect. He received the COVID rent-relief money.
We talked about that.
Somebody's got the law on their side and somebody doesn't.
It might not be you guys.
[narrator] This case was filed in Richmond, California.
Your Honor, this is case #1119 on the calendar
in the matter of Johnson vs. Johnson.
Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
[Patricia] Well, I'd like to say this is gonna be a nice, simple case.
But there's a lot of mathematics and calculations and computations
and government agencies and all involved in this.
So, once we hear the word "government agency,"
we know there's a problem somewhere in here.
So, Mr. Johnson, who is not related to Mr. Johnson...
So, I'm gonna call you Tharlo and I'm gonna call you Jonathan,
if you don't mind. This way we're not Johnson and Johnson here.
Okay, so, Mr. Tharlo, you rented property from Jonathan.
-Yes, ma'am. -[Patricia] And you did some work on it
before you moved in, you said to make it liveable.
You said while you were doing this work, you noticed there was some mold around.
You accepted the place because in the Bay Area, you say it's very expensive
and the rental here was only $1,250. You signed a month-to-month lease,
you moved in in 2018. Fast forward to January 2021.
You say you defaulted on the rent until April 21st.
In May, you applied for COVID relief and you say that that was approved.
That COVID relief then covered that rent that you didn't pay
from January to April. You then paid rent from May through August
without any problem. And it was in September 2021,
that you claim the Defendant unexpectedly and illegally,
served you with 60 days notice to move out.
And you say that this was an illegal eviction
because the Defendant was not in compliance
with an act called the Ellis Act. The general gist of that Ellis Act
is that you can't just ask someone to leave, in this particular area as well.
That you need to be taking the apartment over for yourself
or a family member, etc., and that the tenant was entitled to a relocation fee.
That being said, sir, you contacted an attorney
and you were told about this relocation fee.
And you stayed there for the next 10 months without paying rent.
You actually moved out on June 1st, 2022
and had not paid the rent from the date of your notice in September of '21
until you moved out. So, you then petitioned
the City of Richmond Rent Board on two issues.
One, you wanted your full relocation fee, which was $13,510
and two, you wanted to be compensated for what you're calling
an uninhabitable apartment, as you mentioned right at the outset
that you needed to do work on and continued to remain in disrepair.
And it was determined that you indeed were entitled to
a relocation fee of the amount discussed. You were told, however,
that you could only get half of that with the notice,
$6,755, the balance to be paid
when you turned in your key and you moved out
after you gave 30 days notice.
What you're suing for here is that balance of the relocation fee
that you say the Defendant unlawfully withheld from you.
Now, at the same time that all this is going on,
you say, no, that's not true, that he's taking advantage of the COVID rules,
the rent relief rules and every rule you can think of.
He hired a lawyer, and then wanted $30,000 from you to get out.
You say he stayed another nine months. He didn't pay rent, according to you.
And you finally received the $8,750 after the Plaintiff left.
You're keeping that money. You say that it's money that he owes you
because he's a con artist. Why does he owe you this money?
He did pay me half of my relocation payment when I moved out.
But I put in for the rent relief form and he ended up getting paid for that.
So, all my rent should be paid up. So, I should receive my whole payment.
I have to tell you it kind of bothered me, like, you asked for $30,000 to move.
Don't you think that you could've been a little more reasonable
with your request, knowing that there is an Ellis Act
and what the monies that they would've allowed you?
That was something the Defense Center wrote for me.
I didn't write that. And then, with the relocation payment,
that was straight from the City of Richmond.
I didn't make that number up either.
So, there are a couple of things here. One of the things we can look at,
because it's simpler to deal with is this $3,000 and change
that you got for the premises being uninhabitable.
You actually had a hearing on that issue, correct? What was wrong with the property?
There was mold...
[Patricia] They gave you $1,500 for the mold
because they said you lived with the mold for almost a year, right?
On and off, yes.
Okay, so, just to make your position a little more clear,
maybe from your perspective...
Why is it you think you can withhold this money?
So, during the settlement agreement, no COVID funds had been approved.
There was no guarantee that I was gonna get the money.
So, the Rent Board, which he agreed to, they said,
since you haven't paid up to this time, it's pretty much equal
to the first half of the payment that I was supposed to give him.
So, they covered your non-payment of rent from October, November, December,
January and February, and then, they gave you $505 towards March.
And that totaled $6,755. So, you didn't get that money.
You got covered for rent. You did apply for COVID relief.
And therefore, you did get reimbursed. He was approved. So now,
you can't have double the rent. He's entitled to get back the $6,755. Correct?
Well, he brought this issue up to the Rent Board, and they said, no,
you were compensated with the rent credit because by the time he moved out,
I still had not received any of the COVID money.
And so, when he left, I paid him the remaining balance of...
Which was how much?
Sixty-seven fifty-five, and at that point, everything was final.
So, that you never had any unpaid rent. Would that be correct, sir?
At the time, when the agreement was finalized, I had unpaid rent.
As you stand here today, did you have any unpaid rent?
-No. -[Patricia] So, you were made whole
with regard to your tenancy. Did you get any other monies
from any other government agency, or the Plaintiff,
other than the rent money?
No.
-[Patricia] Why do you keep looking at her? Do you know more than...
She's my property manager.
You want to step up? Do you want to tell us your name
and why seem to be more in the know than him?
'Cause he keeps looking at you.
Well, that's my son, so...
[Patricia] It's good you look at your mom, then.
Actually, you look too young to be his mother, but go on.
What's your name?
-Karen. -[Patricia] Karen, okay.
So, Karen, why is your son wrong?
-He's not wrong... -[Patricia] Ah, I knew you were...
He's never wrong.
I hear what you're saying that he was paid his rent money.
and you know, why does he have to be, you know, get more?
I feel the same for Tharlo...
I know, but somebody's got the law on their side and somebody doesn't.
And the way I'm seeing this, it might not be you guys.
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
Amount, $30,000. Did you say to your lawyer,
hey, I don't want to take $30,000 from him?
No.
We've come across a bunch of shyster lawyers here from time to time.
Did this lawyer, were they getting a portion of that $30,000?
[narrator] Tharlo Johnson is suing his former landlord,
Jonathan Johnson for relocation fees and an illegal eviction.
Jonathan claims Tharlo was made whole by the Rent Board
and is owed nothing.
[Patricia] I just need to clear things up for me to understand this.
You were completely covered for the rent?
-Correct. -[Patricia] Did you get any other money?
Other than the COVID money, no.
Okay. You, sir, got $13,509.99, correct?
That's incorrect. I got half of that. I was awarded $13,000.
He paid me half of it from my relocation payment
due to the fact I still owed him rent. So, he got to keep half.
But he got paid the other half from the COVID-19 rent relief on my behalf.
Okay. So, your position is, he's double-dipped.
Yeah.
So, the Rent Board said the first half was final
when they gave him rent credits. They said,
whether you receive the COVID money or not, because like I said,
it wasn't approved at the time when we finalized our agreement.
You still have to pay a remaining balance of $6,755...
So, did you go in your pocket and take out money and say, here's $6,755?
Yes.
So, you did that, never having received that money from the government?
-Correct. -Yes.
Sir, when you got that $6,755, he gave you that money, correct?
He had never gotten that money from the government.
So, the bottom line here is, somebody got a check for $8,750.
-Who was that? -Me.
[Karen] When he applied for the COVID relief,
however many months he put on there, it was $1,250 times that amount of months,
was equal to $8,750.
I don't think anybody here is a con artist, to be honest with you,
because I think, at least for myself, it took me quite awhile
to figure out who owed what to whom.
And I think that these rules and laws can be very, very confusing.
And the thing is, sometimes people, Mr. Tharlo Johnson,
intentionally remain in properties knowing that they're not gonna pay rent,
they're gonna get government assistance. And there are other people out there
that are actually struggling to pay their rent and to meet their bills.
Bottom line is, I'm passing this to Judge Levy.
So, if I understand you correct, sir, you received
$13,750 in total for COVID rent relief.
Yes.
And then, you were ordered to pay $13,509.99
-for this Ellis relocation issue. -Yes.
Which leaves you with a grand total of about $240.
-Yes. Yes. -For the entire time.
You have a mortgage on this home?
Yes, I do.
How much is the monthly mortgage?
About $2,500.
So, that's $30,000 a year that it costs you to run the place.
You got from the government $13,750 for the COVID rent.
You paid, out of your own pocket,
you paid half of that but he's asking for the other half.
-Mm-hmm. -[Adam] Right.
So, that pretty much cancels out the rent
versus what you're paying for the relocation. Right?
So, the $30,000... What did the government give to you
so that you can pay your mortgage, pay your interest and do that?
-[Karen] Nothing. -Nothing.
[Adam] Nothing. That's what I figured. And so it seems to me,
and again, you know, I'm trying to wrap my head around this,
So, instead of the government saying, we're gonna help people,
like the Plaintiff, who need help, who are in a tough financial way,
to relocate so they can find another place when something like that happens,
what the government said is, you know what, it's much easier for us
and it's better for our books if we simply don't pay anything
and we just require landlords to. Isn't that what they're doing?
Yeah, pretty much.
I get that. But it's different because there are some landlords
that you know, it's a full business, they got 500 apartment units.
This is just the cost of doing business for them.
-How many units do you rent? -[Jonathan] Just that one.
Just that one. So, you get treated the same exact way
as a company who's making $100,000,000 a year renting out apartments.
Right.
Now, to the Plaintiff, in your complaint, you said that it took a lot
for you to recover financially due to COVID
and you're still struggling to get on your feet. Explain that.
My job took a hit. We was pretty much the first ones out.
-[Adam] What'd you do? -I'm a trade show installer.
I'm a foreman. If you're familiar with conventions, we build all that.
And so, you took a hit because you couldn't go to conventions,
you weren't building out these areas. So that was the financial hit you took.
Right? And did you apply for any type of PPE money?
No.
Okay. You were just out of work for a period of time.
And that's why you couldn't pay your rent.
Yeah, pretty much.
You with millions of other people. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
And that was the purpose of the rent relief,
was to give tenants in your position that exact relief.
What I have an issue with is the letter that your lawyer sent.
Because that letter is demanding $30,000 from the Defendant.
And I know that you said that you never asked for that.
That was what your lawyer put there in the letter. It was a demand letter.
Right, you saw it. But when you saw that amount,
$30,000, did you say to your lawyer, hey, I don't want to take $30,000 from him?
I know what he's gonna go through financially.
He's just a mom-and-pop, you know, landlord.
-You didn't say that to the lawyer though. -No.
There's no way I would've accepted $30,000 from him, and I told him that.
We talked about that.
We've come across a bunch of shyster lawyers here from time to time.
I'm not gonna call this one out by name, but did this lawyer
and this organization that the lawyer worked for,
were they getting a portion of that $30,000? Like a contingency fee?
[Tharlo] See, that's not my personal lawyer.
All this was going on with a lot of people.
I didn't even personally meet her. They help people out like me,
that don't know what to do.
That's what they're there for. My last question to you, sir.
Why is it that you believe this signed waiver agreement
that you have signed with the Plaintiff on June 1st, 2022,
relieves you of your responsibility to pay the 2nd half
of the $6,755? Tell me that.
When we had the settlement agreement, the waived rent...
The settlement agreement was in March of 2022.
-And you paid that $6,000... -No. I didn't pay anything out of pocket.
They counted the waived rent as the first half.
And they said June 1st I would have to pay him the 2nd half, which I did.
So, what about this document do you claim relieves you of paying the 2nd half?
The cashier's check shows I paid him June 1st.
-And that was the second half. -And that relieved any and all claims
to the tenancy. So, by him signing off on this, the Plaintiff that is,
the tenant agrees to release all claims related to that tenancy.
Yes.
And that was signed June of 2022.
-Yes. -I have nothing further.
[Tanya] I love my colleagues so much
because they did such a good job with this case.
I feel like the three of you are like the calculus of small claims.
This was a lot to get through, but I want to pick up where Judge Levy left off.
So, Mr. Johnson, given the fact that on June 1st you said you have no more claims,
why are we here right now? Tell me what I'm missing,
'cause it could be something, there's a lot going on here.
'Cause after June 1st, he received the COVID rent relief money.
So?
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
Did you receive $6,755 from them?
Yes.
You got free rent for October, November, December, January, February...
Nothing was free.
[sighs]
So, why are we here?
So, he got paid on my behalf, so, we were square.
-Oh, he got that extra $6,755. -[Tharlo] Yes.
So, what the Rent Board told us was that the first half of the payment...
Six months rent credit was equal to $6,755.
And then, June 1st I paid him $6,755, which equals $13,510 in his pocket.
Right. You gave him six months rent credit which was $6,755,
-and then, you owed him $6,755 in cash. -[Jonathan] Yes.
-And did you pay that? -Yes.
[Tanya] So, why are we here?
I put in COVID rent relief money for him. If he gets that money,
and he gets paid...
[Tanya] This is on top of the settlement money.
-[Tharlo] Yes. -[Tanya] Tell me what it is.
So, right here in this settlement, this is where it says any rent relief granted
will go to pay the 2nd half of the relocation payment.
The $6,755.
And he got paid that on my behalf. I've got a...
Wait, stop. That's what you received.
Did you receive $6,755 from them?
Yes.
You got that in cash. You got free rent for October, November, December,
-January, February... -Nothing was free.
[sighs] You got rental assistance for those months
and a $505 credit for March.
I got rental assistance, yes. It all went to him.
You did not pay any rent for six months, correct?
Altogether... No, that's incorrect.
I was not kidding. My colleagues took pains to go through some of this.
It's very clear. There's no reason for it to be more confusing now.
So, let's just be really clear. Paragraph three;
Landlord agrees to pay Tenant the remainder of the fee
in the amount of $6,755. Was that done, sir?
-I'm asking you, Mr. Johnson Plaintiff. -Yes.
[Tanya] That was done. Landlord may use
any granted COVID rent relief funds
to satisfy the remaining one half relocation payment owed.
That's them. Landlord may use that.
Failure to receive any COVID rent relief funds
does not excuse the payment of the 2nd half of the permanent relocation payment
-which you already did, correct? -Correct.
So, you got the $6,755. According to the settlement
you are also entitled to a $505 rent credit in March.
You were entitled to a rental relief obligation for February, January,
December, November, and October. Correct?
[Tharlo] Correct.
So, what more are you entitled to?
My other half of the payment, 'cause he got paid on my behalf.
That's what it says, Landlord may use any granted COVID-19 rent relief...
If he had got this money in June, he coulda used that to pay him.
He didn't get the money, so he paid out of his pocket.
Even if he got it...
I understand.
[Karen] He woulda used it to pay him.
But because he didn't get it, he pulled it out his own pocket to pay him.
[Tanya] Right, you paid the money from your pocket.
Then, when the government gave you the money...
-He just kept it. -You kept it
because you'd already satisfied the $6,755.
-Please, I have no more questions. -Exactly.
No more questions.
Thank you very much. We are now going to deliberate this matter.
Thank you very much, ma'am, you can take your seat.
Court now stands in recess. Parties are excused.
There were three moving parts here. One; there was an application
for COVID relief by the Plaintiff. Two; there was an application
for a relocation fee by the Plaintiff, which the Defendant
should have allegedly been aware of based on, I guess, what's common knowledge
in the San Francisco Bay Area pursuant to the Ellis Act.
And three, the Plaintiff recovered monies in the amount totaling $3,024 and change
for what he called uninhabitable living conditions
which they enumerated and basically, credited him with.
So, he remained in this property, for other than I think four months
out of a year and a half or two, he paid rent for four months.
Other than that, all of his rent monies were covered by those awards.
So, he is more than made whole. The Defendant owes him nothing.
The Defendant paid out of pocket. Until he was reimbursed,
he was out of pocket. So, the bottom line here is,
the Plaintiff has been more than compensated by the government
and all the agencies he could possibly think of
to live in this San Francisco Bay Area off of this guy's property.
I agree.
Me, too.
Excellent!
Court is back in session. Parties are reminded you're still under oath.
Thank you, Byrd. Okay, I told you when we started
that you have all these government agencies, it's gonna be complicated.
I don't think that anybody here, and I think we all agree on this,
acted in bad faith or maliciously, I think it's confusing.
I mean, it was confusing to us, so, it has to be confusing to the layperson.
So, the bottom line here is, you lived in the Defendant's home
from April of 2020 until June 1st of 2022.
And in all of that time, you paid rent, out of your own pocket,
for four months. At that point, there was a point during COVID
that you began to get COVID relief. So you applied to three agencies.
COVID funds, you requested that you be reimbursed relocation fee money,
in violation of the Ellis Act and you also applied for
breach of warranty of habitability and you were reimbursed funds.
Through all of that, those three agencies, you recovered monies
which enabled you to basically live in his home without reaching into your pocket
during that specific period of time. You were fully compensated.
You got the $13,000 and change for the relocation.
You got $3,024 for uninhabitability and you received COVID monies for rent.
You actually had to reach into your pocket at some point.
You do not, we all agree, owe the Plaintiff, Mr. Tharlo Johnson,
any money. Sir, you have been more than compensated.
So, the verdict of the court is to dismiss your complaint in its entirety.
Thank you both.
This case is now concluded. Parties are excused, you may step out.
It is what it is.
I'm more than happy. Justice prevailed today.
He owes me some money.
He's money-hungry, man. Like they said,
he got about $16,000 and he want another $6,000, so.
That was our agreement. It is what it is. He won, I'm happy for him.
It set me back, I almost lost everything. I was able to keep my head above water.
I was never trying to throw his name through the dirt.
I was just trying to go for what I thought I was owed, that's all.
Watch out who you rent to. Really, really vet people.
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