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She’s essentially accusing you

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of embezzling
from your joint business.

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It’s untrue. I don’t know
anything about that.

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His previous wife

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was handling all of our accounts.

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We started struggling
with the business.

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Sir, any of this sound familiar?

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Um, it vaguely
sounds familiar, but...

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Nobody up here is dumb.

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[announcer]
Today on Tribunal Justice.

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[theme music playing]

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[announcer] This case was filed
in Bakersfield, California.

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Your Honor, this is case #1126
on the calendar

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in the matter
of Copeland v. Harris.

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Both parties have been sworn in.

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-You may be seated.
-[Levy] Thank you, Byrd.

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00:00:54,567 --> 00:00:57,500
All right, Mr. Copeland
and Miss Harris.

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You two were business partners
for a period of time.

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You ran a skateboard park
as well as a retail center

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that catered to teenagers
and kids and young adults

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in your area.

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You started the business
around 2015.

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And when you started the business
you had a discussion.

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And Mr. Copeland,
you had indicated

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that according to what you saw,

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it was gonna take
approximately $87,000

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from the defendant to contribute
as her capital contribution,

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of which,
according to the defendant,

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she had paid $45,000
of her own money,

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and then the $42,811
you loaned her.

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-Is that correct?
-Yes.

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[Levy] Payments were made
for a period of time on that loan,

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00:01:36,734 --> 00:01:39,100
which were $907 a month,

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00:01:39,166 --> 00:01:41,265
pursuant to the terms
of a promissory note.

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She paid for a period of time,
stopped paying,

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and now you’re suing her
for $10,000,

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which is the maximum allowed
in your jurisdiction,

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although the more accurate
amount is $30,000

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that you claim she owes.

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-Give or take, yes.
-[Levy] Fine.

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00:01:54,767 --> 00:01:56,700
Miss Harris, your position, however,

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is that your understanding
of your agreement

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with the plaintiff
is that the collateral

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00:02:02,066 --> 00:02:05,333
for that loan
was the business itself.

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-Yes.
-And when the business closed

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in or around 2018,

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that that was the extent
of your liabilities,

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that you did not owe
anything more

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00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,567
because the plaintiff,

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pursuant to the terms
of the pledge agreement,

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was able to take possession
of the business,

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which he chose not to do.

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That was his choice.

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And he doesn’t get
to take the business,

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what was left of it,
as well as the money.

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-That’s your position.
-Correct.

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[Levy] So now, Mr. Copeland,
would you mind, please,

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going through
the different promissory notes

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that created
the financial obligation

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on the part of Miss Harris

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that you claim
she’s in breach of?

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The original promissory note, um,
was supposed to be secured

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utilizing her retirement
for her employment.

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May of 2015,
pursuant to your papers.

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-[Copeland] Correct.
-Yes.

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00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:56,966
And with that
came a payment schedule.

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That payment schedule,
she had a difficult time

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making her monthly payments.

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00:03:01,834 --> 00:03:05,333
So when we got to about
a year and a half

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after the park had opened,

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we amended
that first promissory note,

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creating an easier
payment schedule--

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the 907 per month.

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And with that,

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it was supposed
to be a secured loan.

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She was supposed to provide
documentation

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in terms of what that entailed.

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And either I don’t have
that document,

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or that document
was never provided.

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00:03:27,966 --> 00:03:32,033
So as of that date,
it was an unsecured loan,

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00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:34,667
because I can’t find anything
that indicates

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how she was gonna
pay that in the event

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00:03:38,133 --> 00:03:39,500
that she defaulted.

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00:03:39,567 --> 00:03:40,633
[Levy]
Who prepared the notes?

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00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:43,433
The second note was prepared
by an attorney.

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[Levy]
And who hired that attorney?

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00:03:45,066 --> 00:03:46,867
-[Copeland] We both did.
-[Levy] So let me understand correctly.

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00:03:46,934 --> 00:03:48,567
So what you’re saying is,

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despite the burden of proof
being yours,

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00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,734
-and you recognize what that means...
-Mm-hmm.

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...that you do not have
the documents

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from the 2016 amended
promissory note

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that established
the security interest

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that secured the loan.

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I don’t have a document stating
what she is gonna use for money

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00:04:06,266 --> 00:04:08,533
if she defaults
on the loan, yes.

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00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,834
Right. The problem
with your case

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is that she did have that.

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And that was a pledge agreement.

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The pledge agreement indicated

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that the skateboard park

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was the collateral for the loan.

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In your original
November of 2016

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amended restatement
loan agreement, sir...

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-Mm-hmm?
-...it actually refers

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to the pledge agreement.

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"This note and the maker’s obligation

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"are secured
by a pledge agreement

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"executed between the parties,

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attached as Exhibit B."

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That’s what you provided
was the loan agreement,

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but you did not provide
the pledge agreement,

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which is what she had.

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And in that pledge agreement,
it makes clear

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that the security interest
for that loan

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was, in fact, as she indicated
in her answer,

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the skateboard park, correct?

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-Correct.
-[Levy] And that your remedy,

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Mr. Copeland, for her default,
which she defaulted,

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was to execute on that security,
which was to take the business.

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The problem is, you didn’t want

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-the business, did you?
-No.

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You had sold your interest
in the business.

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-Sure. Correct.
-[Levy] Right.

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You, as part of your evidence,
provided us with a timeline.

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-Yes.
-[Levy] So we have 2015.

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We have April. The two of you
decide to go into business.

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May of 2015, the original
loan agreement was signed.

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That’s the one that indicated

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that you were going to use
as collateral,

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your retirement account.

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The park opens in July of 2015.

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November of 2016,

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the amended loan agreement
was signed.

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That’s the one
we just discussed.

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November 16,
the new agreement provided

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for a $907-a-month obligation
on her part.

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And November of ’16,
all the same time, Mr. Copeland,

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you sell your 50% share
in the skate park

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-to the defendant.
-Correct.

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Why do you do that?

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We weren’t really
generating a profit.

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00:05:57,467 --> 00:06:00,800
We were putting a lot of money
back into the business.

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00:06:00,867 --> 00:06:03,066
So after about
a year and a half,

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00:06:03,133 --> 00:06:05,767
-my family decided to...
-[Levy] To move on.

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00:06:05,834 --> 00:06:07,400
-...step away, yes.
-[Levy] I get it.

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00:06:07,467 --> 00:06:09,700
And the problem is that what
you did not know at the time

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was that the pledge agreement
that you had signed earlier

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provided for the security
interest of that loan

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to be the business itself,

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00:06:17,266 --> 00:06:19,734
which you now just sold
your interest to, to her.

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-Right?
-I didn’t understand it

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00:06:21,834 --> 00:06:23,300
-to be that way, yes.
-[Levy] Okay.

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00:06:23,367 --> 00:06:25,934
So number one, you have
an issue with respect to--

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Just the way I see it. I don’t know
what my colleagues are gonna say.

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But that the remedy
that you had

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00:06:30,533 --> 00:06:32,667
was clearly memorialized
in the documents

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00:06:32,734 --> 00:06:34,867
prepared by a lawyer
that both of you had hired,

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and that you chose
not to execute on that

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00:06:37,667 --> 00:06:38,834
when the default occurred.

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00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:41,233
The second problem I have
is the time of the default.

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It says here "October 2017,
payment of 907 received.

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00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,367
No more payments received
until December 18."

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00:06:49,433 --> 00:06:53,233
That’s a typo. It should be
October of ’18, roughly.

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And that’s one of the things
I wanted to speak to you about,

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00:06:55,332 --> 00:06:56,667
because you were very clear

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00:06:56,834 --> 00:06:58,200
the park closed in ’18, correct?

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00:06:58,266 --> 00:07:00,233
-Yes. October ’18.
-[Levy] October of ’18.

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00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:03,700
And it was closed before
the 31st of October of 2018.

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00:07:03,767 --> 00:07:04,900
-That’s correct.
-[Levy] Right.

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00:07:04,967 --> 00:07:07,500
So you had defaulted, you failed
to make further payments.

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00:07:07,567 --> 00:07:08,867
-Correct.
-[Levy] And then you didn’t

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bring this lawsuit
until four years later.

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I didn’t bring the lawsuit
until four years later because--

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And that's important because
that’s a statute of limitations

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00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:18,100
on a written contract.

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00:07:18,166 --> 00:07:20,133
My understanding in the way
that I was doing it

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00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,233
was I was giving her
an opportunity to pay the loan

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00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:24,900
until the end of the loan term,

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which she stated
she was gonna do.

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Even October of 2020,

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when I sent her an invoice
she replied to that invoice

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00:07:32,367 --> 00:07:34,967
and stated,
"I’ll pay you when I can."

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I get all that. I know you were
trying to be a nice guy.

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00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,100
But there’s something
about trying to be a nice guy

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00:07:39,166 --> 00:07:40,800
and then being
a business person.

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[announcer]
Coming up on Tribunal Justice...

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You, sir, conveniently forget
to attach the pledge agreement.

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00:07:49,233 --> 00:07:50,834
It’s not a personal loan,

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00:07:50,900 --> 00:07:53,500
as you try to get us to believe
in your complaint.

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00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,533
You underscore this.
"It’s a personal loan."

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00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,767
"It's a personal loan."

193
00:07:56,834 --> 00:07:58,233
Nobody up here is dumb.

194
00:08:05,100 --> 00:08:06,500
[announcer]
Gunter Copeland claims

195
00:08:06,567 --> 00:08:09,200
his former business partner,
Suzanne Harris,

196
00:08:09,266 --> 00:08:12,300
owes for an unpaid
skate park loan.

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00:08:12,367 --> 00:08:14,967
Suzanne claims Gunter
had the park as collateral

198
00:08:15,033 --> 00:08:16,433
for the loan,

199
00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:18,867
and this agreement
ended years ago.

200
00:08:18,934 --> 00:08:20,533
[Levy] The other thing
that I want to bring up

201
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,900
is just a piece of evidence
that we just got.

202
00:08:22,967 --> 00:08:24,767
And this was by you
from the other day.

203
00:08:24,834 --> 00:08:27,233
You had provided us with
invoices and certified letters...

204
00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:28,967
-Mm-hmm.
-...a stack of them,

205
00:08:29,033 --> 00:08:31,867
regarding letters that
you had sent to the defendant

206
00:08:31,934 --> 00:08:33,066
consistent with your testimony,

207
00:08:33,133 --> 00:08:35,533
trying to resolve
the outstanding monies.

208
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,900
And I know that you were trying
to be thorough and helpful

209
00:08:37,967 --> 00:08:39,299
when you provided those to us,

210
00:08:39,366 --> 00:08:40,667
but I’m afraid that perhaps

211
00:08:40,734 --> 00:08:42,433
they kind of did
just the opposite for you.

212
00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:43,866
And I’m gonna ask you
the following.

213
00:08:43,933 --> 00:08:46,233
-Okay.
-You say the total loan balance,

214
00:08:46,333 --> 00:08:48,000
past due plus penalties
and interest,

215
00:08:48,066 --> 00:08:51,867
was $117,962.

216
00:08:51,934 --> 00:08:53,834
That was based upon
an original promissory note

217
00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:55,467
of 42,000,

218
00:08:55,533 --> 00:08:57,233
for which you paid down

219
00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:59,567
-approximately down to 30.
-Mm-hmm.

220
00:08:59,633 --> 00:09:01,467
So according to this letter
that you’re giving to her,

221
00:09:01,533 --> 00:09:06,066
you’re saying that that 30
is now $118,000.

222
00:09:06,133 --> 00:09:07,433
I’m just saying that
that was a pretty big figure

223
00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:09,300
-that you sent to her, and say...
-Sure.

224
00:09:09,367 --> 00:09:11,967
...that this is penalties
and interest and all that stuff.

225
00:09:12,033 --> 00:09:15,467
But then in August of 2022,
you sent her a settlement letter

226
00:09:15,533 --> 00:09:18,867
and you say that if you pay me
$20,000 now, cash,

227
00:09:18,934 --> 00:09:20,200
certified check...

228
00:09:20,266 --> 00:09:22,300
-I’ll agree to take $20,000.
-Mm-hmm.

229
00:09:22,367 --> 00:09:24,367
And then the next month,
September,

230
00:09:24,433 --> 00:09:27,867
this $117,000 original invoice
you gave her

231
00:09:27,934 --> 00:09:31,600
that now went down to 20,000,
you sent her another one saying,

232
00:09:31,667 --> 00:09:33,567
okay, to settle these matters,

233
00:09:33,633 --> 00:09:35,165
-I’ll take $10,000.
-Mm-hmm.

234
00:09:35,233 --> 00:09:37,300
Is the reason that you agreed
to accept $10,000

235
00:09:37,367 --> 00:09:39,233
in September of ’22

236
00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:41,367
was because you knew,
number one,

237
00:09:41,433 --> 00:09:43,900
that the pledge agreement
allowed and provided for

238
00:09:43,967 --> 00:09:46,400
the security interest
of the skateboard park

239
00:09:46,467 --> 00:09:48,800
to be used to make you whole

240
00:09:48,867 --> 00:09:50,300
as to the loan, number one?

241
00:09:50,367 --> 00:09:51,967
And number two,
you recognized

242
00:09:52,033 --> 00:09:53,300
that the statute of limitations
had run?

243
00:09:53,367 --> 00:09:55,233
Is that why you were willing
to take 10,000?

244
00:09:55,300 --> 00:09:57,000
-No, that’s incorrect.
-I’m gonna let Judge Acker

245
00:09:57,066 --> 00:09:58,333
finish up with that point,
thank you.

246
00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,767
-I’ve run out of time.
-Okay. No problem.

247
00:09:59,834 --> 00:10:01,900
[Acker] 'Cause I don’t think
you were being a nice guy at all.

248
00:10:01,967 --> 00:10:06,066
I find it very suspicious
that you conveniently omit

249
00:10:06,133 --> 00:10:08,533
the pledge agreement,
which makes very clear

250
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:09,967
that you don’t have a lawsuit here.

251
00:10:10,033 --> 00:10:12,633
You were already repaid
when you reclaimed the collateral.

252
00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:14,200
I find that very curious.

253
00:10:14,266 --> 00:10:15,800
I don’t think
that that was a mistake,

254
00:10:15,867 --> 00:10:18,800
that you happened to not include

255
00:10:18,867 --> 00:10:21,300
a pertinent part
of the agreement.

256
00:10:21,367 --> 00:10:22,867
You were in business
before the two of you

257
00:10:22,934 --> 00:10:24,100
started this business, weren't you?

258
00:10:24,166 --> 00:10:25,467
-The two of us, yes.
-[Acker] You were the one--

259
00:10:25,533 --> 00:10:26,900
You had the scooter shop.

260
00:10:26,967 --> 00:10:28,800
-[Acker] You were the scooter mom.
-[Suzanne] Mm-hmm.

261
00:10:28,867 --> 00:10:30,467
This was your passion project,

262
00:10:30,533 --> 00:10:32,433
and you wanted
to make it a business.

263
00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:34,934
And so when you started
this skate park,

264
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,165
you didn’t have
all the cash up front, right?

265
00:10:37,233 --> 00:10:40,000
You borrowed 45 grand from him,

266
00:10:40,066 --> 00:10:43,033
which was secured
against the skate park.

267
00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:46,133
And then you, sir,
conveniently forget

268
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,266
to attach the pledge agreement
to your contract.

269
00:10:49,333 --> 00:10:50,967
Am I supposed to think
that’s a coincidence?

270
00:10:51,033 --> 00:10:52,500
You just forgot?
You forgot about it?

271
00:10:52,567 --> 00:10:53,800
I didn’t have it.

272
00:10:53,867 --> 00:10:55,066
It’s not a personal loan,

273
00:10:55,133 --> 00:10:58,100
as you tried to get us
to believe, in your complaint.

274
00:10:58,165 --> 00:10:59,567
You underscore this.
"It’s a personal loan."

275
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:00,967
"It's a personal loan."

276
00:11:01,033 --> 00:11:02,600
Nobody up here is dumb.

277
00:11:02,667 --> 00:11:04,967
There’s a pledge agreement
that you happened to forget about

278
00:11:05,033 --> 00:11:06,800
that makes clear
you have no case.

279
00:11:06,934 --> 00:11:08,800
So, no, I don’t think
you’re a nice guy.

280
00:11:08,867 --> 00:11:11,533
Now, Miss Harris,
there were some transactions

281
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,033
that took place while you were
in business with the plaintiff

282
00:11:14,100 --> 00:11:15,133
that you didn’t know about.

283
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,033
A secret credit card, in fact,

284
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:18,600
that he and his wife opened up

285
00:11:18,667 --> 00:11:20,266
that you would have been liable for.

286
00:11:20,333 --> 00:11:22,166
How did you find out
about this credit card?

287
00:11:22,233 --> 00:11:23,600
And tell us about
this transaction.

288
00:11:23,667 --> 00:11:27,100
His previous wife was handling
all of our accounts,

289
00:11:27,166 --> 00:11:30,967
and I had asked
for documentation

290
00:11:31,033 --> 00:11:32,100
prior to tax season

291
00:11:32,165 --> 00:11:34,066
just so that I could review things.

292
00:11:34,133 --> 00:11:36,433
And one of the statements
had come up

293
00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:37,567
for the credit card.

294
00:11:37,633 --> 00:11:39,000
And this credit card was taken out

295
00:11:39,066 --> 00:11:40,500
in the name
of your joint business?

296
00:11:40,567 --> 00:11:42,233
It was taken out in her name,

297
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:46,300
but used and paid for
through our business.

298
00:11:46,367 --> 00:11:48,300
[Acker]
Oh, personal credit card

299
00:11:48,367 --> 00:11:50,000
that they were using...

300
00:11:50,066 --> 00:11:51,834
-...your business funds to pay.
-[Suzanne] Right.

301
00:11:51,900 --> 00:11:54,433
Maybe-- Sir, any of this
sound familiar?

302
00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:56,100
Um, it vaguely sounds familiar,

303
00:11:56,165 --> 00:11:59,533
but, um, that was an issue
with the bank that,

304
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,367
which we corrected.

305
00:12:01,433 --> 00:12:04,100
[Acker] So did you put the money
back into the business

306
00:12:04,166 --> 00:12:05,300
-that you took to pay...
-Yes.

307
00:12:05,367 --> 00:12:06,400
your personal expenses?

308
00:12:06,467 --> 00:12:08,433
-Yes.
-[Acker] Do you have evidence of that?

309
00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,367
-No.
-Interesting. Nice guy.

310
00:12:11,433 --> 00:12:13,200
You hang around with people
who are this nice,

311
00:12:13,266 --> 00:12:14,967
you’re gonna go broke real fast.

312
00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:18,166
What are all of these things
on your table?

313
00:12:18,233 --> 00:12:20,166
-[Acker] What’s all that?
-So these are receipts

314
00:12:20,233 --> 00:12:23,166
from the skate park,
our daily totals.

315
00:12:23,233 --> 00:12:25,934
I was seeing a little lapse
in difference

316
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,567
in, um, monies coming in
on a daily basis.

317
00:12:29,633 --> 00:12:33,567
So I, um, sat down one day,
took the three months

318
00:12:33,633 --> 00:12:35,633
from March, April, May, June,

319
00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:37,533
and the days that he worked

320
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,133
with either
his previous wife or son

321
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,967
and the days
that my son and I worked.

322
00:12:42,033 --> 00:12:44,100
There was a difference
between those four months

323
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,266
of $39,000.

324
00:12:46,333 --> 00:12:48,467
[Acker]
So what you’re saying is that

325
00:12:48,533 --> 00:12:49,633
when you were working,

326
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:52,266
somehow you guys were making
lots of money.

327
00:12:52,333 --> 00:12:54,200
But when he was in charge
of the till,

328
00:12:54,266 --> 00:12:56,967
for some reason
you were coming up short?

329
00:12:57,033 --> 00:12:58,165
-Yes.
-[Acker] You know what?

330
00:12:58,233 --> 00:12:59,734
My advice to you
is you should stay away

331
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,367
from people who are this nice:

332
00:13:02,433 --> 00:13:04,934
stay away from this kind
of kindness.

333
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,233
You’re under no obligation, sir,

334
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:09,600
but, um, I’ll give you a chance
to respond to that,

335
00:13:09,667 --> 00:13:10,834
because she’s essentially
accusing you

336
00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:12,767
of embezzling
from your joint business.

337
00:13:12,834 --> 00:13:15,200
It’s untrue. I don’t know
anything about that.

338
00:13:15,266 --> 00:13:17,233
Right. Is that something
you forgot about,

339
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:19,266
the same way you forgot
about the pledge agreement?

340
00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:21,567
Yeah.

341
00:13:21,633 --> 00:13:22,867
Judge DiMango.

342
00:13:22,934 --> 00:13:25,433
Had the business
been making money,

343
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:28,433
would you have had issues
with your payments?

344
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:31,133
No. We started struggling
with the business

345
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,100
around June of 2017. Um...

346
00:13:34,165 --> 00:13:35,367
-[DiMango] I’m sorry to interrupt you.
-[Suzanne] Yes.

347
00:13:35,433 --> 00:13:37,266
Let me get a little something
in my head.

348
00:13:37,333 --> 00:13:38,834
You go into his store,

349
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:40,500
and you get into a conversation.

350
00:13:40,567 --> 00:13:44,033
You talk about your passion
for this skate park and scooters.

351
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:46,266
And you’re the crazy
scooter mom and all.

352
00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:47,333
And you want to make money.

353
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:48,834
I mean, that’s what’s
in the papers.

354
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:51,100
You need $87,000 from her.

355
00:13:51,165 --> 00:13:52,633
How do you come up
with this amount?

356
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,767
[Copeland] She provided
estimated costs to open it.

357
00:13:55,834 --> 00:13:58,633
So you went out, you looked,
you found a place,

358
00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:01,266
you got whatever it is
you use in a skate park.

359
00:14:01,333 --> 00:14:05,433
And you said it’s going
to cost us $180,000

360
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:08,734
to get this open and to do this.
Would that be correct?

361
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,600
[stammers] We had a rough estimate

362
00:14:11,667 --> 00:14:13,500
of what it would cost.

363
00:14:13,567 --> 00:14:16,200
And then when we hired
the builder that came,

364
00:14:16,266 --> 00:14:18,066
it was all built from scratch.

365
00:14:18,133 --> 00:14:19,633
It was going to cost
a little bit more.

366
00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:22,266
And how much money
do they make, generally?

367
00:14:22,333 --> 00:14:24,033
It just depends on...

368
00:14:24,100 --> 00:14:26,900
We did events every,
almost every month.

369
00:14:26,967 --> 00:14:28,567
-Do people pay as they come in?
-[Suzanne] Yes, they--

370
00:14:28,633 --> 00:14:29,800
Because I’m not familiar
with this at all.

371
00:14:29,867 --> 00:14:32,367
-[DiMango] So I'm trying to get some...
-Yes, they pay an entry fee.

372
00:14:32,433 --> 00:14:35,633
So they rent the use of the park.

373
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:38,300
They come in with
their skateboard under the arm,

374
00:14:38,367 --> 00:14:42,165
they go in and they say here’s,
what, $20 for a half hour?

375
00:14:42,233 --> 00:14:44,633
-Twelve dollars for two hours.
-[DiMango] Twelve dollars or two hours.

376
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:46,033
That-- I mean, that sounds like

377
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,600
pretty reasonable
entertainment time for children.

378
00:14:48,667 --> 00:14:49,834
The money comes to you,
I would think,

379
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:50,900
in a business like that,

380
00:14:50,967 --> 00:14:52,233
especially because
you’re probably dealing

381
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:54,467
with a large number
of young people,

382
00:14:54,533 --> 00:14:55,633
-it’s a cash business.
-Yes.

383
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:57,367
Who collected the cash
at the business?

384
00:14:57,433 --> 00:14:59,467
Whoever was working the register.

385
00:14:59,533 --> 00:15:02,033
[DiMango] Would that be a friend?
A relative? Either one of you?

386
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:03,867
They were all relatives.

387
00:15:03,934 --> 00:15:05,800
The Copelands,
and then when I was working,

388
00:15:05,867 --> 00:15:08,233
it was my husband or my son.

389
00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:09,900
And what did you do
with the money when it came in?

390
00:15:09,967 --> 00:15:12,767
-Where did it go?
-It went mainly back into the business.

391
00:15:12,834 --> 00:15:15,100
So what money did you get?
Or either one of you.

392
00:15:15,166 --> 00:15:17,133
What money did you make
in the course of this business

393
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,266
over these few years
that you were together?

394
00:15:19,333 --> 00:15:21,400
Sir, how much did you make,
if anything?

395
00:15:21,467 --> 00:15:22,967
Not very much at all.

396
00:15:23,033 --> 00:15:24,333
[theme music playing]

397
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,700
[announcer]
Coming up on Tribunal Justice...

398
00:15:26,834 --> 00:15:30,133
She had made
two payments of $160.

399
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,600
I don’t recall
making those payments.

400
00:15:32,667 --> 00:15:34,600
Oh, so you think he’s trying
to use those payments

401
00:15:34,667 --> 00:15:36,400
to extend the statute
of limitations?

402
00:15:36,467 --> 00:15:37,967
-Yes.
-That would be pretty underhanded.

403
00:15:43,165 --> 00:15:46,266
[theme music plays]

404
00:15:46,934 --> 00:15:48,433
-What kind of money were you making?
-[Copeland] I mean, I...

405
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:49,967
...I can’t even really say, because,

406
00:15:50,033 --> 00:15:52,066
like she said,
we put it back into the business.

407
00:15:52,133 --> 00:15:54,165
So that’s one of the main reasons

408
00:15:54,233 --> 00:15:57,033
why it wasn’t working for me
any longer.

409
00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:59,500
Because we weren’t making,
really, a profit.

410
00:15:59,567 --> 00:16:01,400
Yeah, and this park, I mean, was,

411
00:16:01,467 --> 00:16:02,934
it was well known
in your neighborhood, right?

412
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,066
In fact, I think we might have

413
00:16:04,133 --> 00:16:06,400
-some photographs and blogs.
-[Suzanne] Yeah, it was--

414
00:16:06,467 --> 00:16:07,867
[Suzanne]
It was known all over the world.

415
00:16:07,934 --> 00:16:10,333
We had, um, world
scooter competitions.

416
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,033
Um, we had people
from Japan, Australia,

417
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:15,433
to come to our park
to train and to compete.

418
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:16,934
And what made
your park so unique

419
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,467
that people
from outside the country

420
00:16:18,533 --> 00:16:21,467
would want to come here and use it?
I mean, that's...

421
00:16:21,533 --> 00:16:24,133
It was 19,000 square feet
of ramp space.

422
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,967
Obstacles were built in a way
that professional riders

423
00:16:28,033 --> 00:16:30,400
-could practice or train...
-[DiMango] Mm-hmm.

424
00:16:30,467 --> 00:16:33,967
...for a larger venue
for world-class competitions.

425
00:16:34,033 --> 00:16:36,533
Could you have sold any
of those things that were in there

426
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,433
to recoup some of your losses?

427
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:40,633
Were you able to sell
and make any money

428
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:44,333
from any of the things
that were inside the Ronka Bowl?

429
00:16:44,467 --> 00:16:47,400
No. I had, originally, um,
had been approached

430
00:16:47,467 --> 00:16:50,433
by a private school
in Tijuana, Mexico.

431
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:52,333
Um, they were wanting
to build a skate park,

432
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,567
and that fell through,
that never happened.

433
00:16:54,633 --> 00:16:58,433
When did you come across
these either things that occurred?

434
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:59,734
The credit card?

435
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,100
How were you not aware
of these things?

436
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,934
-[Suzanne] I had sent--
-And did you confront...

437
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,233
the plaintiff about them?

438
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:08,800
[Suzanne] I had sent emails
asking his previous wife

439
00:17:08,867 --> 00:17:11,300
to provide
those statements for me.

440
00:17:11,367 --> 00:17:13,400
And she kept telling me,
in emails,

441
00:17:13,467 --> 00:17:15,367
which I do have as evidence,

442
00:17:15,433 --> 00:17:17,165
that they were in the drawer.

443
00:17:17,233 --> 00:17:18,567
They’re under the folder.

444
00:17:18,633 --> 00:17:21,099
And I continued to look for those.

445
00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:23,467
I only found a few months’
statements.

446
00:17:23,532 --> 00:17:26,867
And so that-- I just went
with the few months that I had

447
00:17:26,934 --> 00:17:30,166
and saw that there was
what I’m thinking as negligence

448
00:17:30,233 --> 00:17:33,700
and false, um, use of those funds.

449
00:17:33,767 --> 00:17:35,767
So according
to your statement in court,

450
00:17:35,834 --> 00:17:38,867
she owed you
approximately $30,000.

451
00:17:38,934 --> 00:17:41,500
Why did you bring it
in small claims court?

452
00:17:41,567 --> 00:17:44,233
Why were you so willing
to accept this loss?

453
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:45,834
I mean, to be honest,
I couldn’t afford

454
00:17:45,934 --> 00:17:47,066
to go to civil court.

455
00:17:47,133 --> 00:17:49,667
Wouldn’t you have had to pay
based on your recovery?

456
00:17:49,734 --> 00:17:51,800
A lawyer wouldn’t
have taken this...?

457
00:17:51,867 --> 00:17:53,734
No, I had consulted
with an attorney,

458
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,533
and based on the retainers that
they had let me know about, I...

459
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,767
[DiMango] You would have taken
a $20,000 hit?

460
00:17:59,834 --> 00:18:01,433
Because you’re taking,
according to you,

461
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:03,100
a $20,000 hit here.

462
00:18:03,166 --> 00:18:06,433
And I am thinking about this issue
of statute of limitations,

463
00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:09,333
because when I first looked
at the case, I thought, wow, this is--

464
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,100
You know, breach of contract
is four years from the breach,

465
00:18:12,166 --> 00:18:15,567
and I was wondering why
you delayed so long

466
00:18:15,633 --> 00:18:17,433
in bringing the action.

467
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:19,533
Like I said, when the park closed

468
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,233
and the 907 payment stopped,

469
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:23,867
she had made two payments

470
00:18:23,934 --> 00:18:27,100
-of $160 after that...
-[DiMango] Right. And then--

471
00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,867
and then the cash payment
of $50 after that.

472
00:18:28,934 --> 00:18:30,000
[DiMango]
I saw that.

473
00:18:30,066 --> 00:18:32,100
But the breach occurred
before that,

474
00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:34,100
-according to your papers.
-[Copeland] Correct. Correct.

475
00:18:34,166 --> 00:18:35,500
I mean, she was like,
"I’m gonna pay you

476
00:18:35,567 --> 00:18:37,500
when I can, what I can."

477
00:18:37,567 --> 00:18:39,500
And it just never transpired.

478
00:18:39,567 --> 00:18:40,767
So at a certain point,

479
00:18:40,834 --> 00:18:43,200
-I was just like, I’m tired of waiting.
-[DiMango] Okay, thank you.

480
00:18:43,266 --> 00:18:46,333
Your Honor, I have a question
regarding those, um, payments.

481
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,300
I don’t recall
making those payments, so...

482
00:18:49,367 --> 00:18:50,867
[DiMango]
Oh, that he’s giving you credit?

483
00:18:50,934 --> 00:18:52,667
So you think he’s trying
to use those payments

484
00:18:52,734 --> 00:18:54,800
-to extend the statute of limitations?
-Yes.

485
00:18:54,867 --> 00:18:56,133
[DiMango]
That would be pretty underhanded,

486
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:57,567
and probably not inconsistent

487
00:18:57,633 --> 00:18:59,500
with some of the positions
taken here.

488
00:18:59,567 --> 00:19:01,500
Did you pay by check all the time?
How did you pay?

489
00:19:01,567 --> 00:19:02,667
[Harris]
It was always paid by check

490
00:19:02,734 --> 00:19:04,633
-so that I had a paper trail...
-[DiMango] And there was--

491
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:06,500
-and I do have that as evidence.
-[DiMango] And there's no check.

492
00:19:06,667 --> 00:19:07,767
Do you have any checks for that?
You said there was--

493
00:19:07,834 --> 00:19:10,300
What, the $50 was cash,
and the other...?

494
00:19:10,367 --> 00:19:12,133
The $50 was cash.

495
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,266
She had called me on the phone,

496
00:19:14,333 --> 00:19:16,800
said that her and her family
were struggling.

497
00:19:16,867 --> 00:19:19,967
There was a possibility
of the house going under foreclosure.

498
00:19:20,033 --> 00:19:24,333
And she basically said that
she could make a $50 payment,

499
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,166
but not to tell anybody about it

500
00:19:26,233 --> 00:19:28,633
because she didn’t want
her husband getting mad at the time.

501
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:30,333
-For $50?
-[Copeland] So she brought--

502
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,367
[Copeland]
She brought $50 over to my house

503
00:19:32,433 --> 00:19:33,867
and hand-delivered it to me.

504
00:19:33,934 --> 00:19:35,233
[DiMango groans]

505
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:36,900
All right,
I’ll sit with that thought.

506
00:19:36,967 --> 00:19:38,867
Doesn’t sit right with me, but--

507
00:19:38,934 --> 00:19:40,300
Unless anybody
has any questions.

508
00:19:40,367 --> 00:19:41,967
Yeah, Mr. Copeland, if I could,

509
00:19:42,033 --> 00:19:44,767
based upon an answer that
you just gave to Judge DiMango...

510
00:19:44,834 --> 00:19:47,767
So, you consulted
with a lawyer or a law firm

511
00:19:47,834 --> 00:19:49,100
regarding this matter?

512
00:19:49,166 --> 00:19:50,600
-Yes. Last summer.
-[Levy] Yeah. Yeah.

513
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:52,333
And they were the ones,
also, who explained to you

514
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,066
what the statute of limitations was

515
00:19:54,133 --> 00:19:55,533
on a written agreement,
on a contract?

516
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,734
They said it was questionable.
It could go either way.

517
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,200
And so you knew that
when you brought this action?

518
00:20:00,266 --> 00:20:01,900
-Possibly, yes.
-[Levy] Yes. No, not possibly.

519
00:20:01,967 --> 00:20:03,900
That’s just from what
you just said.

520
00:20:03,967 --> 00:20:05,867
So when you came in here,
you would want to make sure

521
00:20:05,934 --> 00:20:08,467
to have buttoned up,
as best you can,

522
00:20:08,533 --> 00:20:10,533
the issue of the statute of limitations,

523
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,934
so that it wouldn’t
go the wrong way,

524
00:20:13,033 --> 00:20:14,900
and it would go the right way,
in your favor.

525
00:20:14,967 --> 00:20:16,333
Well, I think any plaintiff wants...

526
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,867
-...to win, yeah.
-[Levy] Sure. Of course.

527
00:20:18,934 --> 00:20:20,567
And so the point
that everyone is making,

528
00:20:20,633 --> 00:20:22,100
that I want to make sure
that you get,

529
00:20:22,166 --> 00:20:25,433
is that you knew that by putting
in that $50 payment,

530
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:27,600
and the $160 payment,

531
00:20:27,667 --> 00:20:30,834
and the $160 payment,
that that extended

532
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:33,000
the statute of limitations.

533
00:20:33,066 --> 00:20:35,533
That what would have been
a dead case

534
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,467
on statute of limitations ground

535
00:20:37,533 --> 00:20:38,834
could have been resurrected

536
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:41,633
if we believed
that she had, in fact,

537
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:43,033
made those small payments.

538
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,266
You understood that, right?

539
00:20:44,333 --> 00:20:45,767
-No, I did not--
-[Levy] Oh, okay.

540
00:20:45,834 --> 00:20:47,667
I did not know
that those payments

541
00:20:47,734 --> 00:20:49,533
-would extend anything.
-[Levy] Okay.

542
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,567
[Levy] Number one, they would have,

543
00:20:51,633 --> 00:20:53,633
if you could have provided
evidence of it, which you can’t.

544
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:55,900
But it could have. Thank you.

545
00:20:55,967 --> 00:20:57,867
[DiMango] At this time we’re
going to retire to deliberate.

546
00:20:57,934 --> 00:20:59,967
-Thank you both.
-[Byrd] Court now stands in recess.

547
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:01,300
Parties are excused.

548
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,333
In my opinion,

549
00:21:05,433 --> 00:21:07,667
from based upon the reading
of all the contracts,

550
00:21:07,767 --> 00:21:10,333
the ones that he had
and the ones that he did not have,

551
00:21:10,433 --> 00:21:11,700
the ones that the defendant had,

552
00:21:11,767 --> 00:21:13,700
he’s out of luck
on both those grounds.

553
00:21:13,767 --> 00:21:16,266
Number one, his sole remedy was,

554
00:21:16,333 --> 00:21:18,100
pursuant to the terms
of the pledge agreement,

555
00:21:18,166 --> 00:21:20,000
to take back her interest

556
00:21:20,066 --> 00:21:22,734
in the Ronka
Underground Skatepark.

557
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,967
That’s stated on page one
of the pledge agreement.

558
00:21:26,033 --> 00:21:27,400
-[DiMango] Mm-hmm.
-[Levy] Number two:

559
00:21:27,467 --> 00:21:28,934
statute of limitations.

560
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,533
Those little payments
that he claims she made

561
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,533
would have extended
the statute of limitations.

562
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,333
I’m not going to impute
any ill will on his part.

563
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,567
I don’t have to.
It doesn’t make any difference,

564
00:21:39,633 --> 00:21:42,233
because if it was true
and he knew about it--

565
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:43,500
his lawyers clearly told him

566
00:21:43,567 --> 00:21:44,934
about the statute
of limitation problem--

567
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,066
he would have brought us proof
of those payments.

568
00:21:47,133 --> 00:21:49,967
He didn’t, so he loses,
I believe, on both grounds.

569
00:21:50,033 --> 00:21:51,667
And I would just move
to dismiss his case.

570
00:21:51,734 --> 00:21:54,100
-I’m going to impute ill will.
-[laughter]

571
00:21:54,166 --> 00:21:56,333
-So you’re dissenting on that fact.
-[DiMango] Mm-hmm.

572
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,934
I am 100% with you.

573
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,700
I think his case goes nowhere.

574
00:21:59,767 --> 00:22:02,300
I agree. I mean, for him to say
that it wasn’t worth the money.

575
00:22:02,367 --> 00:22:04,066
He took a $20,000 hit.

576
00:22:04,133 --> 00:22:05,900
How much were his lawyers
going to take?

577
00:22:05,967 --> 00:22:08,166
Even if they charged him,
or took a third, or whatever,

578
00:22:08,233 --> 00:22:09,633
he still would have been
ahead of the game.

579
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:12,867
So I have to say that
he was kind of more on the edge

580
00:22:12,934 --> 00:22:15,567
of thinking he was going to fail
on any one of the two grounds

581
00:22:15,633 --> 00:22:17,400
that we’ve just discussed,
and I’m not willing--

582
00:22:17,467 --> 00:22:19,700
To your point, though.
It wasn’t just the 20,000.

583
00:22:19,767 --> 00:22:23,900
It was the $117,000
that he claimed he was owed

584
00:22:23,967 --> 00:22:25,800
pursuant to the terms
of the contract.

585
00:22:25,867 --> 00:22:27,467
Any lawyer
would have taken that case.

586
00:22:27,533 --> 00:22:29,000
So it’s even worse for him.

587
00:22:29,066 --> 00:22:30,633
Either way, I think that--

588
00:22:30,700 --> 00:22:32,033
Can you impute
some ill will now?

589
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:34,333
-That I will.
-[DiMango] I’m not gonna impute, but...

590
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,033
She’s imputing enough.

591
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:39,400
[theme music plays]

592
00:22:39,467 --> 00:22:40,934
[Byrd] Court is back in session.

593
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,800
Parties are reminded
you’re still under oath.

594
00:22:42,867 --> 00:22:44,734
[Levy] We’ve had an opportunity
to discuss the matter

595
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,100
amongst the three of us,
and we are unanimous.

596
00:22:47,166 --> 00:22:49,500
Mr. Copeland, pursuant to
the terms of the pledge agreement,

597
00:22:49,567 --> 00:22:52,333
this pledge agreement
and the note that you had

598
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,533
with the defendant will be secured

599
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,133
by the pledge of the defendant’s
membership interest

600
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,767
in the underground skate park.

601
00:22:58,834 --> 00:23:00,133
And you understand
what that means.

602
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,266
And because of that,

603
00:23:01,333 --> 00:23:03,467
as well as the statute
of limitations issue,

604
00:23:03,533 --> 00:23:04,867
it is the unanimous verdict
of the court

605
00:23:04,934 --> 00:23:08,734
that your request for $10,000
from the defendant is denied.

606
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,400
The case is dismissed.
Thank you.

607
00:23:10,467 --> 00:23:11,533
[Copeland] Thank you.

608
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,934
[Byrd] This case is concluded.

609
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,633
Parties are excused.
You may step out.

610
00:23:18,633 --> 00:23:20,700
Well, obviously, I’m disappointed.

611
00:23:20,767 --> 00:23:21,967
I’m happy with the outcome.

612
00:23:22,033 --> 00:23:23,100
It’s my fault for not having

613
00:23:23,166 --> 00:23:24,433
the right documentation.

614
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:26,100
This has been a long few years

615
00:23:26,166 --> 00:23:28,934
of emails, and, um,

616
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,767
just a lot of heartache, I think, for me.

617
00:23:30,834 --> 00:23:31,934
I just pretty much bit off

618
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,834
a little bit more
than I can chew.

619
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:36,633
Honestly, I would love
to still have the skate park.

620
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,166
Be careful who you go
into business partnership with,

621
00:23:39,233 --> 00:23:41,734
and, uh, don’t loan anybody money.

622
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,734
So I’m happy with the decision.

623
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,867
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