He leased you a truck that was a piece of garbage.
-Yes, sir. -No.
He doesn't know anything about trucking.
You said, the truck was broken down more than it was being driven.
-Correct. -That's not true, your honor.
That's our job, to figure out whether or not that's true.
[Narrator] Today on Tribunal Justice...
[opening theme music]
[opening theme fades]
...This case was filed in Lawrenceville, Georgia.
[Byrd] Your honor, this is case #1075A
And #1075B,
in the matter of Brown versus Thomas, and Thomas versus Brown.
Parties have been sworn in,
-you may be seated -[Levy] Thank you, Byrd.
All right, let's put this case into perspective right off the bat.
Procedurally,
-Mr. Brown, you filed the first claim. -Yes.
[Levy] And then after you filed, Mr. Thomas, you filed a separate case
-against Mr. Brown. -Yes.
So what we're gonna do and the way we're going to handle this,
is we're gonna stay right where we are.
We're gonna take one filed case at a time.
And then we're gonna reach a verdict at the end regarding both your cases.
-How's that sound? -Okay.
[Levy] All right. Mr. Brown, you own a trucking company
-where you lease trucks for a living. -Yes, sir.
[Levy] According to your complaint, the defendant is a truck driver
-who leased one of your tractor-trailers. -Yes.
[Levy] The lease terms were $900 a week. -Yes.
-There was no written lease. -No.
[Levy] And you know that that was a mistake.
-And you knew then also. -Uh...
-Yes. -[Levy] The defendant paid
weeks one and two on that lease.
But week three, he called and said, that your truck that you gave him
was acting up.
It needed eight tires and a new muffler.
[Levy] That's your complaint, right?
No, sir. It need four tires...
-[Levy] Four tires? -...and a muffler.
[Levy] You told the defendant to buy the tires
-and to buy and install a new muffler. -Correct.
And you provided him with the cost of the tires
and gave him the money immediately.
He provided me with the cost of the tires
and what it was the fix the muffler.
And I Cashapp'd him the money
-for the repairs on it. -[Levy] Okay.
Now, week five comes along
and he returns the truck. He said it was a lemon.
And he said it was your problem to deal with.
You on the other hand,
when he said that to you, thought it was totally bizarre.
According to your complaint, you said, because there was nothing wrong
-with the truck when you gave it to him. -Correct.
[Levy] And furthermore, you said, that there was no telling what he did
when he had the truck for week one, week two, week three, and week four.
-Correct. -[Levy] Now...
on week five you examine the truck after the defendant returned it
and you noticed that the tires that he put on were not new.
-Correct. They were used. -[Levy] Used tires.
And the muffler that you paid for
and that was installed by the defendant or someone working on his behalf
was a used muffler, not a new one.
They didn't even change the muffler.
What he did was, he just chained the muffler back up
so he can keep driving the truck.
I don't know what he did with the money that I sent for the truck.
But he just chained it back up and when I picked the truck up
it was still waving as if nothing was done to it.
Okay. And further, you say, that the defendant never paid
for the last two weeks of the truck lease.
He drove the truck again
for the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, that following week,
which was a $900, and then he was supposed to um...
Um, give me the key back at the end of the month
because in July I was gonna raise the price
of leasing the vehicle, which I text him
and told him I was gonna raise the price to $1000 a week
versus $900 a week.
And so, he was gonna return me the keys back in July, the 1st,
and he did not return the keys
Well, on week five, you said,
-that he returned the truck, right? -Right. Week five.
[Levy] And the two weeks of non-payment
-were weeks four and week five. -Were the last two weeks of the month.
-And that you're suing him for the $1800 -Yes.
for those two weeks of non-payment, at $900 a week.
-Yes -[Levy] And $3,200
for misuse of your funds
for buying four used tires instead of new ones.
And doing something with the muffler, but most certainly,
not putting a new one on, like you paid for.
Correct.
-That's your case against the defendant. -Yes.
[Levy] I haven't forgotten about you. Okay there, Mr. Thomas?
-Yes, sir. -[Levy] You have an answer.
According to your answer, you've been driving trucks for 15 years,
and you're a mechanic.
And that you don't owe the plaintiff anything.
According to your answer, he leased you a truck
that was a piece of garbage and was constantly breaking down.
And that you needed this tractor-trailer to transport gasoline
all over the country. Something that the plaintiff knew.
That the terms of your agreement were $900 a week
and that it wasn't your responsibility to fix the truck.
That would be the plaintiff's responsibility.
But he just expected you to do it.
-That's what your answer said? -Somewhat.
Where did I get anything wrong?
[Alvin] He doesn't have a trucking company, for one.
Two, my lease payments were $750 a week.
Three, I have texts showing that I text him and told him that
the truck was in my yard with the key over top of the visor
and to come and pick it up.
The company that I'm contracted to called him and told him,
Alvin has his own truck now, you can come and get your truck.
He kept calling me, asking me, can I find a place so he can park it.
'Cause he couldn't leave it in our yard anymore.
He would constantly... every time the truck would breakdown
...he would ask me, well, can you go half with me?
And I would tell him, like, that's your truck. It's not my truck,
Our agreement is, for me to pay my weekly rental fee
and that's it.
The two guys that was renting the truck
-prior to me, -No.
that said that the truck was constantly in the shop.
I gave them...
[Levy] Okay. First of all, don't tell me what other people think
or might've told 'ya, 'cause they're not here.
-But let me stop you for a second... -Okay.
...what you say in your answer to the complaint
is very simple and straight forward.
You said, "the truck was broken down on the side of the road
more than it was being driven."
-That's what you said. -Correct.
-[Levy] Okay. -That's not true, your honor.
[Levy] I don't care whether you say it's true or not.
We're gonna figure out... that's our job to figure out whether or not that's true.
Well, I got proof that he was paying me for the last few months.
That's all right. We're gonna get to all that payment.
We're gonna get to your payments to him, his payment to you.
But right now, I want to get through the point that he just made.
Whether or not you own a trucking company or not.
-How many trucks do you own? -I own two.
So the two trucks that you lease, are the one to the defendant
and one other.
Right. I have another truck.
[Levy] And when you say, truck, is it the same type of truck?
-Is it a Freightliner? -[Eric] No, I have a 16ft box truck.
Now, as far as owning a trucking company, I never said I own a--
I have my LLC company that my business name is up under.
But he leased the truck from me. I never said I own a trucking company.
Well, that's what I asked you when I started with you just a few moments ago,
that you own a trucking company where you lease trucks for a living,
and you said, "yes." So now you want to change it. That's okay.
I rather you be accurate and right, that's all.
-Okay. -[Levy] Okay?
So you have two trucks, but only one that the defendant was able to lease,
based upon the type of loads that you knew he was going to be carrying.
Now Mr. Thomas, your case against the plaintiff is as follows...
-You're suing Eric Brown for $3,000. -Correct.
[Levy] And you're suing him for $3,000 for lost wages.
Yes.
[Levy] And those lost wages are calculated by you
because you earn $1,500 a day
and it took you two days to respond
to the initial lawsuit that he filed against you
for the $5,000.
That's the $1,800 for the non-payment of your lease
and $3,200 for misuse of funds.
So, when he filed that against you, you then had to file against him
because for two days you had to deal with that.
[Narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
He let you use some property,
-you used the property. -Right.
And there is a very good legal justification
for saying, if you've got someone else's property in your possession
and something goes wrong with it,
-then it's on you. -No.
You wanna debate me about what the law is?
I'm not debating you.
[Narrator] Eric Brown is suing truck driver,
Alvin Thomas, for misuse of funds and leasing fees
for Eric's tractor-trailer truck.
Alvin claims,
Eric is responsible for the maintenance on his own truck.
So, let's start here... Mr. Brown...
When did you buy this tractor-trailer that you leased to the defendant?
[Eric] So, I bought it back in November of '21.
[Levy] And what year is that vehicle?
-It's a 2005 Freightliner. -Freightliner.
The truck had about 800,000 miles on it when I bought it.
Okay, let's talk about the term of the lease.
'Cause a moment ago, you said,
that there was no written lease, and I thought that was interesting.
You're talking about leasing an expensive vehicle
that's going to be transporting hazardous materials
and explosive materials. And I'm curious,
in your mind's eye, what were the terms of the lease?
When is it gonna start? When is it gonna end?
Who's responsible for regular maintenance? Repairs? Replacement parts?
Roadside assistance, was it included? What about insurance?
Was insurance required by you to take your lease?
These all seem to be important questions
that someone who's leasing a tractor-trailer that's going to be
transporting gasoline, which you knew about
on the roads. So tell me... Answer those questions for me.
So, the insurance was covered by the company where he works for
because I was working up under them.
They're the one who provided the insurance for everything for the vehicle.
When he took the lease, that's the company that he works for,
he could either be a company driver or you could be an owner-operator driver.
So, he didn't want to work for the company.
So, he wanted to be an owner-operator driver,
but he didn't have a truck. So he leased a truck from me
by paying me at $900 a month
and he would do all the stuff that that company need him to do
as far as pulling the loads. The tankers.
[Levy] What about regular maintenance?
Regular maintenance, the way him and I discuss it on the phone
was I wasn't responsible for anything major.
And that was the transmission or the motor.
That's where I was responsible for, because he was making all of the money
because the contract ended up being in his name.
And he paid me the nine--
What do you mean the contract ended up being in his name?
There is no contract. There is no lease.
The contract for the company, to work for that company,
they normally put it in the owner driver's name.
But because he was talking to the...
[inaudible dialogue]
...they put the contract in his name for him to get paid
-for the delivery of their product. -You know something, Mr. Brown?
Maybe it would be easier if you do this...
I need you to provide me proof
of the payments that he made to you and that you made to him.
At least give me those. I'd like to see those now.
And then, I'm going to turn this over to Judge Acker
and Judge DiMango, who I'm sure want to ask additional questions.
[Levy] You're looking on your phone. -Yes, sir.
So, does that mean that you did not
provide the evidence before coming in today?
I did not get a chance to pull that part of it up
-and send it over to-- -[Levy] Which part did you not?
The payments that you made to him, proof of payment?
Or the payments that he made to you?
The payments that he made to me for leasing my truck
-for $900 a week. -[Levy] You didn't bring those?
I pulled it up out of my bank account because he was sending it
directly to my bank account.
That's fine. Show me the proof of payments that you made to him,
totally $3,200 that you claim were misuse of funds
for buying four new tires.
[Eric] That was for that... and this is the one for the tires.
-So, is this one of them here? -Yes, sir.
So, this is four new tires... Thank you.
...four new tires, at $505 each, plus truck tire disposal
as well as some other items,
-and the total bill there was $2,460. -Correct.
-[Levy] That's the bill that he gave you? -That's the bill that he gave me.
Great. Show me the proof that you paid him.
[Levy] Again, you didn't bring proof that you paid him,
it's on your phone?
I sent the money to him through Cashapp for everything
-because he was-- -[Levy] I get it. I get it.
You sent it through Cashapp but you didn't bring it with you today.
This is your big day. This is the day for you to make your case,
and you chose not to bring that evidence today for whatever reason.
-Judge Acker. -[Acker] Thank you, Judge.
So, Mr. Brown, there are two components to your claim.
-[Eric] Yes. -The first component is that
you maintain that you gave the defendant money to buy new parts
to repair the truck.
He used the funds to buy used parts
and you claim that that was an improper use of your funds.
Mr. Thomas, you maintain that
since you were the renter of the truck,
you weren't responsible for anything He's responsible for all of the repairs.
That makes no sense.
Have you ever rented a car and then, had Hertz say,
You know what, whatever you do to this car is own us?
That never happens.
So, as a preliminary matter, even in the absence of a contract,
I can imbue some common sense
to figure out what a deal means.
Explain to me how you're going to sell this idea
that you could drive the truck
and he had to pay for whatever went wrong with it.
[Alvin] Mm-hm. Okay. Well, prior to him,
the company that I'm leased onto, it's not company drivers.
It's all owner-operators. I was renting a truck
from my company, through Penske.
I don't pay for any repairs--
Don't care. He's not Penske.
Penske is a huge, huge multi-million dollar company.
-This is an informal arrangement -[Alvin] Okay.
-And in the absence of a contract, -Okay.
I can treat it as a bailment.
-He let you use some property. -[Alvin] Mm-hm.
-You used the property. -[Alvin] Right.
And there is a very good legal justification for saying,
if you've got someone else's property in your possession
and something goes wrong with it, then it's on you.
There's a very good legal justification for that.
-No. -What are you saying no?
-[Acker chuckling] -No, it's not my responsibility
-to fix his truck. -And you tell me why that is
even though I just explained to you the legal justification?
And I'm trying to give you an opportunity to maybe offer some facts
that will support your position. Or instead, are you--
-do you--do you just instead-- -Because I've rented from other people--
You just instead-- do you wanna debate me about what the law is?
So your only basis for saying, I don't have to pay him,
is that when I rent trucks from big multi-million dollar operators
-I don't have to pay them? -Correct.
[chuckles] Okay. Yeah, just hold onto that.
Now if that was in our agreement that's something different.
There's no agreement between the two of you.
-Right -There is no agreement.
-Right. -You say that like it helps you
with respect to this point.
-But as far as I see it, it does not. -[Alvin] Okay.
Because as a matter of law... I'm just telling you.
...as a matter of legal common sense... -[Alvin] Mm-hm.
...in many cases. I'm even going to go out on a limb
-and say, most cases. -Mm-hm.
If I give you some property and you're renting the property from me
-and you damage the property, -Mm-hm. That's diff--
-then I can come to you -Right.
But I didn't damage the property.
[Acker] Well then, that's what we're gonna get to next.
Because your position is that it was a lemon.
You drove it for five weeks.
-You had it for five weeks. -Yes, and I did put tires on it.
So wait, which is it?
You put tires on it because you had a responsibility to?
-Or you didn't have a responsibility? -I wouldn't have been able to drive it
had I not put tires on it. That's--
So if it was his responsibility to repair, why not just give him the truck back?
-If it's his respons-- -If it was his responsibil--
He gave me the money for the four tires
-before I even drove the truck -[Acker] You're getting...
My company said I have to put the tires on before I can even drive it.
Okay. So, stop. You're getting ahead of where my questions are.
If it was his responsibility to do all of the maintenance
and upkeep on the truck, as you said.
You said, "He can't lease a vehicle to a client like me
and then expect me to repair it.
The responsibility is on the owner of that vehicle,
which in this case, your honor, is Plaintiff Eric Brown."
So my question to you,
is that if you understood it to be his responsibility to repair the vehicle,
why didn't you say, you put the tires on this truck,
I'm not taking this truck?
I did. That's why he sent the money.
[Acker] And how much money did he send you?
Uh, two thousand something.
-[Acker] How much money did you send him? -$2,460.
-For new tires-- -[Acker] No, no, no. Stop. Stop.
We're not there yet. So, he makes a good point.
In the normal course, if I rent something from somebody,
if I rent a car from Hertz.
And I'm like, Hertz...
the car broke down on the side of the road.
Hertz is probably not going to send me money to repair it.
You sent him money.
So that supports his position that I was really pushing him on
that in this particular case, you did undertake those obligations.
-I sent-- -[Acker] No, no, no.
But now, I want to go back to the big part of your claim.
I do not see anything that says that there was an obligation by him
to buy you new parts.
I mean, people repair vehicles with used parts all of the time.
All the more so, when it's an old vehicle in the first place.
What is the evidence that he ever had an obligation
to put on brand new parts on your very old vehicle?
Because you're not saying that he didn't put on any parts.
You're saying he didn't give you brand spanking new parts.
The invoice that he gave me for the tires, is for new tires.
And he just admitted that I gave him $2,460 for new tires.
He didn't say for new tires.
[Narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
It costs me for a car, a regular car,
to buy a tire, three, four hundred dollars.
And you're gonna tell me for tires for that truck it's only costing
four of five hundred dollars a tire?
-It was five hundred-- -[DiMango] No, no.
I didn't ask you what you were being billed.
He said you gave him money for tires
and he put the tires on the vehicle.
Sometimes, when you repair a vehicle, in order to save money
they use used parts. That's not fraud. Show me something that says,
Here's a new part. Here's the price for a new part,
and instead, you get a used part.
I just don't see any evidence that he ever told you he was buying anything new.
-That you ever said-- -I guess that was my assumption,
-that he was buying new tires. -[Acker] Thank you!
You just said exactly what I thought you were doing.
You said it was an assumption.
And you cannot give someone money for parts
and then get parts that are maybe not new,
and then say, well, I'm gonna sue you 'cause you didn't buy new parts.
I mean, what proof do you have that you ever told him or--
If I was gonna put used tires on that tractor-trailer,
I would've just kept the used tires that was on there.
Not if they weren't working.
Wasn't the whole reason you had to get new tires
was because the current tires weren't working?
The company that I'm with, I couldn't even hook up to the trailer
without certain things being done.
When you got the truck from him, you had to replace the tires
Put new tires on it. It was, um...
[Acker] Now I know the confusion.
It was-- It was a couple of different things my company told me
that had to be done in order for me to even
start driving the truck.
Do you know what I think happened? Because just now, you said,
-"I had to put new tires." -[Alvin] Mm-hm
Now when you say that "I had to put new tires on,"
do you mean that you had to put on brand new tires?
Or do you mean that you had to replace-- Shh! Shh!
Did you have to replace the tires?
-Replace the tires. -You had to replace the tires.
-Right. -And what I believe happened...
because he made an assumption.
I don't think you're a big liar.
I don't think you're coming to court to run a game.
But here is what I think because it just happened in the course
of my examination.
The tires needed to be replaced.
He said, I gotta put on new tires.
He didn't mean, I'm buying new tires.
I think he meant tires that are new to the vehicle.
When he said that, you thought you were getting brand spanking new tires
but that's just not what happened.
I actually think this is a misunderstanding.
I don't see how your funds have been misused
I'm going to let you pick that point up with Judge DiMango.
However, Mr. Thomas,
Do you admit that you did not pay for five weeks of leasing the truck?
Correct, 'cause I had to be towed.
I want you to think about this failing in your evidence.
If you wanted to demonstrate that this vehicle in your possession
was so inoperable that you didn't have to pay for it,
I would expect there would be some communication
in this evidentiary record, from you to the plaintiff
saying, I can't drive it, so I'm not paying for it.
Where is the evidence that the vehicle was inoperable
-Do you want me to show it to you? -[Acker] Did you not submit it?
[Alvin] I did. In the text.
[Acker] The text messages that you submitted
involved communications between you and the plaintiff
about paying for some parts. When does the mechanic need to be paid?
And you're talking about the muffler.
What I do not see is any evidence the vehicle was inoperable
to the point where you couldn't drive it, and let's get the value for your deal.
It's one thing to say,
I'm driving a truck that doesn't run as great as I wanted it to
It's another to say, I can't use it at all.
And I don't see evidence of the latter. Judge DiMango...
You kept to till week five. You didn't return it on week three.
-You kept it. -It was parked.
It was parked in the yard.
So you just kept it where you were. You never used it
-for weeks four and five. -[Alvin] Couldn't.
And whose yard was it in?
My company's yard.
[Alvin] And we had kept showing where he was supposed to come to pick it up.
But he never did.
He doesn't drive. He doesn't have a CDL.
He doesn't know anything about trucking.
When he purchased the truck,
he sent two other guys that drove the truck before me
-to pick it up. -[DiMango] That's a good point.
The truck is sitting in his yard there for weeks four and five.
How do you get the truck back from him and when do you take it back?
I didn't get the truck back until... until sometime in July.
Because I had called him a couple times to try to figure out--
Because once he didn't pay me for the last two weeks of that month,
then I was like, hey man, where's the key at for my truck?
[DiMango] Right. Because you knew you had to make arrangements to go get it.
And I paid another driver to pick the truck up and take--
And it was parked
-where he said in his lot. -Correct.
-So, he didn't-- -Still in their--
in their-- in the lot where he was at.
So you might not have use the truck for those last two weeks.
Now my question to you is...
'cause you know something, I'm guessing about
What does it cost to buy a new tire for a truck?
For four new tires it's gonna be around $2,600.
-That's what I was paying-- -So wait a minute...
it cost me for a car, a regular car, to buy a tire,
three, four hundred dollars. And you're gonna tell me
for tires for that truck it's only costing four, five hundred dollars a tire?
-For a new one? -For four new ones.
Now, how about-- No! I'm asking you one tire.
One tire cost how much?
You're telling me $400?
-It was five hundred-- -[DiMango] No, no.
I didn't ask you what you were being billed.
I'm asking you, do you know, independently, what it cost to go out--
In other words, if we went online and we look now for a new truck tire
would we learn that it's around $800 per tire?
Some of them can run you that amount.
Uh, but there are some that you can get somewhere around about $500 bucks
How about $856 for one tire?
How about that amount?
You can get them for eight hundred and something dollars per tire.
So the thing is...
When do you ever buy them for $500?
[Narrator] To be continued...
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