1 00:00:00,533 --> 00:00:02,000 [Tanya] He was supposed to fix things. 2 00:00:02,066 --> 00:00:03,400 He didn't fix them. 3 00:00:03,467 --> 00:00:05,200 The two of you were forced to move. 4 00:00:05,266 --> 00:00:07,000 It was gettin' unsafer for our kids. 5 00:00:07,066 --> 00:00:07,967 Absolutely not. 6 00:00:08,032 --> 00:00:09,233 The basement looked like this. 7 00:00:10,767 --> 00:00:13,033 What's that? Are there prisoners down there? 8 00:00:13,100 --> 00:00:16,332 [announcer] Today on Tribunal Justice. 9 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,934 [theme music playing] 10 00:00:37,467 --> 00:00:40,700 [announcer] This case was filed in Elbow Lake, Minnesota. 11 00:00:40,767 --> 00:00:43,133 [Byrd] Your Honor, this is case number 1077 on the calendar 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,500 in the matter of Hansen versus Kincaid and Ferguson. 13 00:00:46,567 --> 00:00:49,033 Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated. 14 00:00:49,100 --> 00:00:50,433 -Thank you, Byrd. -[Byrd] You're welcome, Judge. 15 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:51,767 Mr. Hansen, 16 00:00:51,834 --> 00:00:55,266 the defendants were your tenants for about a year and a half. 17 00:00:55,333 --> 00:00:58,100 They moved in in August, 18 00:00:58,166 --> 00:00:59,600 a couple of years ago. 19 00:00:59,667 --> 00:01:02,066 A year later, their lease was up. 20 00:01:02,133 --> 00:01:03,834 You went to inspect the premises, 21 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,433 you saw some damages that concerned you. 22 00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:07,700 But you said, "You know what, 23 00:01:07,767 --> 00:01:09,033 even though there are damages, 24 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:11,433 you two have been good paying tenants. 25 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:13,166 I'm going to renew the lease." 26 00:01:13,233 --> 00:01:15,100 And they had agreed, according to you, 27 00:01:15,166 --> 00:01:16,934 to pay for some of those damages. 28 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,400 They did not, however, return the new lease. 29 00:01:20,467 --> 00:01:22,600 They didn't sign it, but they stayed there. 30 00:01:22,667 --> 00:01:24,100 This was in August. 31 00:01:24,166 --> 00:01:26,400 September, you notice 32 00:01:26,467 --> 00:01:28,600 that they stopped paying utilities. 33 00:01:28,667 --> 00:01:32,200 December, they give you 30-day notice. 34 00:01:32,265 --> 00:01:34,734 January, they leave, 35 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,100 and you say, when they move out, 36 00:01:36,166 --> 00:01:37,233 your place is destroyed. 37 00:01:37,300 --> 00:01:40,333 Dog feces, dog urine. 38 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,900 The floors are ruined. 39 00:01:41,967 --> 00:01:44,300 You say they really just made a mess of the place. 40 00:01:44,366 --> 00:01:46,100 On top of that, 41 00:01:46,166 --> 00:01:47,934 they didn't pay the last month's rent. 42 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,265 So in your complaint, 43 00:01:49,333 --> 00:01:51,567 you are suing them for our jurisdictional maximum 44 00:01:51,633 --> 00:01:53,967 of $10,000. 45 00:01:54,033 --> 00:01:56,900 Mr. Kincaid and Miss Ferguson, 46 00:01:56,967 --> 00:02:01,033 you maintain that you owe the plaintiff not one dollar, 47 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:03,367 because he failed to make repairs 48 00:02:03,433 --> 00:02:05,700 that he was supposed to make on this property. 49 00:02:05,767 --> 00:02:07,667 And because he didn't make those repairs, 50 00:02:07,734 --> 00:02:10,000 the two of you were forced to move. 51 00:02:10,066 --> 00:02:13,500 And you do, in fact, have a counterclaim against the plaintiff 52 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:16,667 for $9,985. 53 00:02:16,734 --> 00:02:20,600 And that represents the return of four months of rent 54 00:02:20,667 --> 00:02:22,900 and two months of propane, 55 00:02:22,966 --> 00:02:25,333 for which you say he should reimburse you. 56 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,633 Let's start at the beginning, August 2020, 57 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:29,867 when they moved in. 58 00:02:29,934 --> 00:02:31,567 What was the condition of the home, sir? 59 00:02:31,633 --> 00:02:33,166 Just before they moved in, 60 00:02:33,233 --> 00:02:36,133 we completely got done remodeling the house. 61 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,133 We put new flooring throughout the entire house, 62 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,900 in every room, we had refinished all the walls, 63 00:02:41,966 --> 00:02:43,367 textured and painted them, 64 00:02:43,433 --> 00:02:45,767 put new appliances and stuff like that in. 65 00:02:45,834 --> 00:02:48,233 Does anybody have pictures of the home before they moved in? 66 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:49,367 I do not. 67 00:02:49,433 --> 00:02:51,100 That would be an important thing for you to have 68 00:02:51,166 --> 00:02:53,433 if you want me to hold them liable for damages. 69 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:56,000 So August of the next year, 70 00:02:56,066 --> 00:02:57,900 you go in and you see damages in the home. 71 00:02:57,966 --> 00:02:58,966 What do you see? 72 00:02:59,033 --> 00:03:02,000 There was some flooring that looked like it's been wet, 73 00:03:02,066 --> 00:03:04,800 some laminate flooring, separating and heaving a little bit. 74 00:03:04,867 --> 00:03:07,200 There was three interior maple doors 75 00:03:07,266 --> 00:03:09,967 that had dog scratches and dog chew marks on them. 76 00:03:10,033 --> 00:03:11,433 [Tanya] So they've been there for a year. 77 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:15,200 You're going to let them renew if they pay for the damages 78 00:03:15,266 --> 00:03:17,934 -that you've seen up to that point. -Correct. 79 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,266 [Tanya] All right, so let me talk to you, 80 00:03:19,333 --> 00:03:20,767 Mr. Kincaid and Miss Ferguson. 81 00:03:20,834 --> 00:03:22,834 Because, according to you, 82 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:25,600 the plaintiff hired you to get the home ready. 83 00:03:25,667 --> 00:03:26,867 That's what you said in your answer. 84 00:03:26,934 --> 00:03:29,133 Yes, I was paid to finish the home. 85 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,200 So if you were paid to finish the home, 86 00:03:31,266 --> 00:03:34,400 then how is that consistent with your defense in this lawsuit, 87 00:03:34,466 --> 00:03:36,734 which is that he was supposed to fix things, 88 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,734 and because he didn't fix things, you had to move out? 89 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,200 I was paid to fix only what I was able to fix 90 00:03:42,266 --> 00:03:43,300 during that amount of time. 91 00:03:43,367 --> 00:03:45,867 And then after that, once I moved in, it was all-- 92 00:03:45,934 --> 00:03:48,300 Where in the world in the evidence of this case 93 00:03:48,367 --> 00:03:51,667 is there anything that would show that this plaintiff 94 00:03:51,734 --> 00:03:54,000 was paying you to fix things in the home? 95 00:03:54,066 --> 00:03:55,533 I see nothing. I saw nothing 96 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,166 -about it except in the answer. -[stammers] It was just-- It was cash. 97 00:03:58,233 --> 00:03:59,500 So did you fix anything? 98 00:03:59,567 --> 00:04:01,567 Uh, we put the plumbing in and we fixed the kitchen. 99 00:04:01,633 --> 00:04:04,033 The whole kitchen got new countertops and everything. 100 00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:06,533 And there was a point where you were considering 101 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,033 -buying this property? -There was a point, yes. 102 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:11,333 And you decided that you weren't going to buy it 103 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,066 because there were so many problems with it. 104 00:04:13,133 --> 00:04:14,200 We found out that it's going to be 105 00:04:14,266 --> 00:04:16,266 more than a hundred thousand dollars in damage. 106 00:04:16,332 --> 00:04:19,200 Your whole defense in this case is that he was supposed to fix things, 107 00:04:19,266 --> 00:04:20,834 he didn't fix them, 108 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:24,200 and as a consequence of his failure to fix these things, 109 00:04:24,266 --> 00:04:26,066 the two of you were forced to move. 110 00:04:26,133 --> 00:04:28,000 Now, the evidence so far is 111 00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:30,767 that when you moved in, you were supposed to fix things. 112 00:04:30,834 --> 00:04:32,500 There were some things you couldn't fix. 113 00:04:32,567 --> 00:04:35,133 You, in fact, told him you were going to fix some things 114 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,533 and give him money for repairs. 115 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:37,633 -Didn't you? -Um, no. 116 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:39,767 -We weren't allowed to touch anything. -[Tanya] Yes, you did. 117 00:04:39,834 --> 00:04:41,033 -You never told him-- -[Timothy] He told us-- 118 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:42,332 -He told us that we're not allowed... -You never told him-- 119 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,400 ...to fix anything in the house. 120 00:04:43,467 --> 00:04:45,100 You never told him, 121 00:04:45,166 --> 00:04:47,533 "We'll have rent and a little further repairs, 122 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,433 but we'll get you a little further repairs 123 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:51,967 each month when we give you rent, if that is fine"? 124 00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:53,066 And I started doing that. 125 00:04:53,133 --> 00:04:55,367 Okay, so you did tell him you were going to fix...? 126 00:04:55,433 --> 00:04:56,767 Yes. Until he stated 127 00:04:56,834 --> 00:04:58,500 -that he was not gonna fix the basement. -[Tanya] You did tell him-- 128 00:04:58,567 --> 00:05:01,467 You need to let me finish my sentence before you try to answer. 129 00:05:01,533 --> 00:05:03,734 We're not giving speeches. You're responding to my questions. 130 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,000 So you did, at some point in time, 131 00:05:06,066 --> 00:05:07,967 make a representation to the plaintiff 132 00:05:08,033 --> 00:05:09,867 that you were going to give him some money for repairs? 133 00:05:09,934 --> 00:05:11,600 -Yes. -What was the damage 134 00:05:11,667 --> 00:05:14,967 for which the defendant said he was going to compensate you, 135 00:05:15,033 --> 00:05:17,266 when you agreed to let them continue to live there? 136 00:05:17,332 --> 00:05:20,166 It was the three maple doors and parts of the flooring 137 00:05:20,233 --> 00:05:22,233 that had been heaving and separating 138 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:23,633 from water damage. 139 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:24,800 And you acknowledge those damages? 140 00:05:24,867 --> 00:05:25,900 [Timothy] Yeah, I acknowledge them. 141 00:05:25,967 --> 00:05:28,133 And you acknowledge that you were going to pay him for those damages? 142 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,767 I told him we were going to give him as much as we can when we can. 143 00:05:30,834 --> 00:05:35,166 So what are these repairs that he said he was going to make 144 00:05:35,233 --> 00:05:36,467 that forced you to move? 145 00:05:36,533 --> 00:05:37,400 The basement. 146 00:05:37,467 --> 00:05:39,166 What did he tell you he was going to do to the basement? 147 00:05:39,233 --> 00:05:40,867 [Timothy] He was supposed to get it all fixed up 148 00:05:40,933 --> 00:05:42,033 and the walls put back together. 149 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:43,834 [Tanya] This is the basement. 150 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:46,533 [laughs] What kind of dragons do you have in that dungeon? 151 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,233 What the heck is... What's-- What's that? 152 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:50,700 Are there prisoners down there? 153 00:05:50,767 --> 00:05:52,467 What's-- What lives there? 154 00:05:52,533 --> 00:05:54,332 [Jason] It's just a dry storage basement. 155 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,667 When I bought the property, it was like that. 156 00:05:56,734 --> 00:05:59,033 [Tanya laughs] What are you storing down there? 157 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:00,967 -Corpses? What-- -[Jason] It's just dry... 158 00:06:01,033 --> 00:06:02,567 [audience laughing] 159 00:06:02,633 --> 00:06:04,567 It's just dry storage. Nothing. [chuckles] 160 00:06:04,633 --> 00:06:08,433 Was that basement like that when they moved in? 161 00:06:08,500 --> 00:06:10,066 Yes, it was, and they were aware of that. 162 00:06:10,133 --> 00:06:13,567 [Tanya] That's kind of my suspicion, Mr. Kincaid and Miss Ferguson, 163 00:06:13,633 --> 00:06:15,800 'cause there's no way that just happened. 164 00:06:15,867 --> 00:06:17,300 The problem was slowly getting worse. 165 00:06:17,367 --> 00:06:18,300 -Yes. -Right. 166 00:06:18,367 --> 00:06:19,233 The problem was getting worse. 167 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,266 Now, did you ever tell them you were going to fix it? 168 00:06:21,332 --> 00:06:24,700 I did tell them I was going attempt to get it fixed by a contractor. 169 00:06:24,767 --> 00:06:25,834 And due to COVID, 170 00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:27,332 I did reach out to many contractors, 171 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,000 and being short-staffed, none would take it on. 172 00:06:30,066 --> 00:06:33,433 Why do you think that gives you the right not to pay rent? 173 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,332 [Timothy] Because it was getting unsafer for our kids. 174 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,266 The walls were just going more down and down. 175 00:06:37,332 --> 00:06:38,700 The bricks were falling more out of the ground. 176 00:06:38,767 --> 00:06:40,467 The walls in the living room were actually cracking. 177 00:06:40,533 --> 00:06:43,800 Right. But your remedy for that is not to withhold rent. 178 00:06:43,867 --> 00:06:46,500 Your remedy for that is to put the rent in escrow, 179 00:06:46,567 --> 00:06:48,332 and, further, you want him 180 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,567 to reimburse you four months of rent. 181 00:06:50,633 --> 00:06:52,867 So according to you, because of this basement-- 182 00:06:52,933 --> 00:06:54,633 -Did you guys live in the basement? -[Timothy and Lisa] No. 183 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:56,200 -Nobody stayed in the basement? -[Timothy and Lisa] No. 184 00:06:56,266 --> 00:06:57,367 So because of this basement 185 00:06:57,433 --> 00:07:00,066 that was not a part of your living facility, 186 00:07:00,133 --> 00:07:02,600 you think you should have four months of free rent? 187 00:07:02,667 --> 00:07:05,133 The four months from when he said he was going to have it fixed. 188 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,100 A cruddy basement doesn't mean that you don't have to pay rent. 189 00:07:08,166 --> 00:07:09,567 -And why are you suing for propane? -[Timothy] We had to find a safer place 190 00:07:09,633 --> 00:07:11,734 -for us to live. -Why are you suing for propane? 191 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,300 We had to put more than once in two months, 192 00:07:14,367 --> 00:07:16,266 four, four times, propane's in. 193 00:07:16,332 --> 00:07:18,066 Why is that his fault? Maybe you just use 194 00:07:18,133 --> 00:07:19,767 -a lot of energy. -Because the holes in the basement 195 00:07:19,834 --> 00:07:21,166 are taking the heat out. 196 00:07:21,233 --> 00:07:22,900 [Tanya] But you moved into this place 197 00:07:22,967 --> 00:07:25,200 knowing that you had an uninsulated basement, 198 00:07:25,266 --> 00:07:27,000 and now you want to redo the deal 199 00:07:27,066 --> 00:07:28,734 and have him pay you back for things. 200 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,934 That was never his responsibility to pay for propane. 201 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,033 In fact, it was your responsibility when you moved out 202 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:37,000 to leave the tank, what, 15 percent full? 203 00:07:37,066 --> 00:07:38,767 -Yes, Your Honor. -[Tanya] So I don't know how 204 00:07:38,834 --> 00:07:40,567 he has anything to do with propane. 205 00:07:40,633 --> 00:07:43,166 I do know that this didn't just happen 206 00:07:43,233 --> 00:07:45,800 in six months or four months, 207 00:07:45,867 --> 00:07:47,166 and I don't see a basis 208 00:07:47,233 --> 00:07:49,800 for why the two of you should be allowed to live for free. 209 00:07:49,867 --> 00:07:50,867 Judge DiMango? 210 00:07:50,933 --> 00:07:53,533 This is kind of what I... I'm trying to put this all together, 211 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,200 having seen some of the evidence. 212 00:07:55,266 --> 00:07:57,200 Looks like you bought a bad house. 213 00:07:57,266 --> 00:07:59,867 How long did you own this house before you started renting it? 214 00:07:59,933 --> 00:08:01,100 About three years. 215 00:08:01,166 --> 00:08:03,033 -Were they your first tenants? -Yes, they were. 216 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,033 So when you bought that house, 217 00:08:05,100 --> 00:08:06,400 it was falling apart in the basement. 218 00:08:06,467 --> 00:08:08,867 You bought a bad foundation, a bad house. 219 00:08:08,934 --> 00:08:10,066 You bought the ruins 220 00:08:10,133 --> 00:08:12,433 -of Pompeii, it looks like. -[audience laughing] 221 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:13,900 [Patricia] Seriously. But you bought it. 222 00:08:13,967 --> 00:08:15,700 Now, I would imagine that when you guys 223 00:08:15,767 --> 00:08:17,667 went to that house to look at it, 224 00:08:17,734 --> 00:08:19,300 you saw that in the basement. 225 00:08:19,367 --> 00:08:21,266 Yes, I've seen it. And I told him right after I'd seen it. 226 00:08:21,332 --> 00:08:22,800 -Well, I didn't see it. -[Patricia] You said... 227 00:08:22,867 --> 00:08:25,233 "I see it, but we're going to take the place anyway." 228 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:27,066 -Well, I talked to him about that first. -[Patricia] Because-- 229 00:08:27,133 --> 00:08:28,200 Yeah, but you took it. 230 00:08:28,266 --> 00:08:30,900 I mean, there's no way he was going to fix that. 231 00:08:30,967 --> 00:08:32,467 I mean, you said you were going to fix it. 232 00:08:32,533 --> 00:08:35,000 What were you going to do, start pulling in one brick at a time? 233 00:08:35,066 --> 00:08:37,000 -You had to hire a company. -Yes. 234 00:08:37,066 --> 00:08:39,467 To lift your house, basically. It was collapsing. 235 00:08:39,533 --> 00:08:42,600 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 236 00:08:42,667 --> 00:08:45,066 [Lisa] He said, "I will work on putting stabilizers up." 237 00:08:45,133 --> 00:08:46,233 That was never done. 238 00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:47,967 I couldn't see the basement at the time. 239 00:08:48,033 --> 00:08:50,000 I moved to Minnesota with a broken foot. 240 00:08:50,066 --> 00:08:52,066 Well, you didn't do any Zumba classes in that house, 241 00:08:52,133 --> 00:08:53,165 because, let me tell you something, 242 00:08:53,233 --> 00:08:54,767 you would have been right through the ground. 243 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:01,667 [theme music playing] 244 00:09:01,734 --> 00:09:04,867 [announcer] Jason Hansen is suing his former tenants, 245 00:09:04,934 --> 00:09:07,300 Timothy Kincaid and Lisa Ferguson, 246 00:09:07,367 --> 00:09:11,600 for unpaid rent, utility bills, and property damage. 247 00:09:11,667 --> 00:09:15,033 Timothy and Lisa are countersuing for the return of rent, 248 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:18,934 propane cost, and their security deposit. 249 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,333 They're paying 1300. 250 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:21,600 -You have kids too, right? -[Timothy] Yes. 251 00:09:21,667 --> 00:09:22,734 Four children? Three or four? 252 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,066 We had four living there. Right now, we have two. 253 00:09:24,133 --> 00:09:25,934 When we moved out, we only had two living with us. 254 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,367 -And you had pets, right? A few pets? -Yes. Three dogs. 255 00:09:29,433 --> 00:09:31,567 But the real problem here is that's dangerous. 256 00:09:31,734 --> 00:09:34,900 I'm sure that when you bought that place, 257 00:09:34,967 --> 00:09:36,467 there weren't people living in it. 258 00:09:36,533 --> 00:09:37,767 There actually was, yes. 259 00:09:37,834 --> 00:09:38,834 Who was living in it? 260 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:40,700 Uh, the sheriff of the town, actually, and his wife. 261 00:09:40,767 --> 00:09:41,767 -[audience laughing] -[Patricia] The town sheriff? 262 00:09:41,834 --> 00:09:42,867 Yes, ma'am. 263 00:09:42,934 --> 00:09:44,266 You're right about small towns. 264 00:09:44,333 --> 00:09:46,533 [audience laughing] 265 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:47,533 They were using-- 266 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,500 I'm being told now. It makes sense. 267 00:09:49,567 --> 00:09:52,734 So they were using that, Judge Acker, for prisoners, right? 268 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,367 [audience laughing] 269 00:09:54,433 --> 00:09:57,100 Okay, now that I'm getting past the broken basement, 270 00:09:57,165 --> 00:09:59,800 which obviously was not your fault, 271 00:09:59,867 --> 00:10:00,967 was not his fault, 272 00:10:01,033 --> 00:10:03,266 but you have an obligation to fix certain things. 273 00:10:03,333 --> 00:10:05,600 You say you fixed it. What did you do? 274 00:10:05,667 --> 00:10:07,867 You would have some pictures of how great it looked. 275 00:10:07,934 --> 00:10:09,033 Where are those pictures? 276 00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:11,000 I guess I never take pictures, I guess, of my properties, 277 00:10:11,066 --> 00:10:12,133 and I probably should. 278 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,633 -That's a bad answer. -[Jason] I remodel-- 279 00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:14,800 That's kind of like, you know, 280 00:10:14,867 --> 00:10:16,867 "Let me see if I can push this one over on her. 281 00:10:16,934 --> 00:10:19,467 I guess I should have really been doing this, but, you know, I didn't." 282 00:10:19,533 --> 00:10:21,033 I remodeled about ten houses, and I don't-- 283 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:23,066 Did he fix the property when you moved in? 284 00:10:23,133 --> 00:10:24,500 -[Lisa] He was in the process... -Honestly? 285 00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:26,200 -...of fixing the property. -He was in process of fixing it. 286 00:10:26,266 --> 00:10:29,734 And there were some things that were left that he made a list, 287 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,400 and we agreed that he would work on it while we lived there. 288 00:10:32,467 --> 00:10:34,200 Some of that stuff didn't get done. 289 00:10:34,266 --> 00:10:36,900 Just like stabilizers in the basement were asked to be put up. 290 00:10:36,967 --> 00:10:38,800 He said, "If I can't get someone to come in here, 291 00:10:38,867 --> 00:10:40,633 I will work on putting stabilizers up." 292 00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:41,734 That was never done. 293 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,300 I couldn't see the basement at the time. 294 00:10:43,367 --> 00:10:45,300 I moved to Minnesota with a broken foot. 295 00:10:45,367 --> 00:10:47,567 Well, you didn't do any Zumba classes in that house, 296 00:10:47,633 --> 00:10:48,900 because, let me tell you something, 297 00:10:48,967 --> 00:10:50,433 you would have been right through the ground. 298 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:51,800 [Lisa] So-- But when I did see, 299 00:10:51,867 --> 00:10:53,600 there was a discussion about it, 300 00:10:53,667 --> 00:10:56,600 and there were, "Yes, I'll take care of this," 301 00:10:56,667 --> 00:10:59,266 and things like that and that wasn't done. 302 00:10:59,333 --> 00:11:01,400 [Patricia] Okay, so let's get to the walk-through 303 00:11:01,467 --> 00:11:03,533 and the itemized list of damages. 304 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,433 There was an issue with regard to the walk-through 305 00:11:05,500 --> 00:11:08,500 because you are entitled to do a walk-through with him, 306 00:11:08,567 --> 00:11:10,200 but you wanted to record it. 307 00:11:10,266 --> 00:11:12,333 And you didn't want 'em to. Why? 308 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,967 I simply told them I did not allow them to record me. 309 00:11:15,033 --> 00:11:17,533 They could have recorded the property at any time. 310 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,033 So you didn't take still pictures? 311 00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:20,834 I took stills, but not there in the walk-through, 312 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:22,300 because we didn't do a walk-through with him. 313 00:11:22,367 --> 00:11:24,066 Did you ever get an itemized list? 314 00:11:24,133 --> 00:11:26,867 I think so, but like a month later. 315 00:11:26,934 --> 00:11:28,900 [Patricia] So you accepted the list. 316 00:11:28,967 --> 00:11:30,834 -You took your own pictures, correct? -Yes. 317 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:33,467 Why did you not purchase more propane? 318 00:11:33,533 --> 00:11:34,900 Um, we actually did. We were doing it-- 319 00:11:34,967 --> 00:11:37,165 Normally, it was only once a month we order propane. 320 00:11:37,233 --> 00:11:39,400 And then at the end of this month, it was every-- 321 00:11:39,467 --> 00:11:41,100 Twice a month we were getting propane in there, 322 00:11:41,165 --> 00:11:42,600 and we asked them to have them come out 323 00:11:42,667 --> 00:11:43,734 to see if there was a leak. 324 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,165 Because it made no sense that we were paying $500 325 00:11:46,233 --> 00:11:47,600 every time the propane tank was being filled up. 326 00:11:47,667 --> 00:11:49,734 But the pipes froze. You said the pipes froze. 327 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,700 Yes, they let the propane run out. 328 00:11:51,767 --> 00:11:53,266 And so the furnace went out and froze up. 329 00:11:53,333 --> 00:11:55,567 So were they in the house when the pipes froze? 330 00:11:55,633 --> 00:11:58,667 The pipes froze around January 1st, if I remember correctly, 331 00:11:58,734 --> 00:11:59,834 and that was about one week 332 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:01,667 after they gave me their 30-day notice. 333 00:12:01,734 --> 00:12:03,834 When did you physically leave the premises? 334 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:05,867 It was January 1st, is when we started 335 00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:07,834 moving stuff out into the new place. 336 00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:09,333 So we didn't actually know 337 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:10,600 that we were running low on propane, 338 00:12:10,667 --> 00:12:12,066 because we had had it filled up... 339 00:12:12,133 --> 00:12:13,900 -[Timothy] Nine days before that. -...twice. 340 00:12:13,967 --> 00:12:16,133 Twice already between the end of Thanksgiving 341 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,433 -and that point. -[Patricia] Do you have those bills 342 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:20,467 to show that you had the tanks filled nine days before you left? 343 00:12:20,533 --> 00:12:22,033 Um, no, I don't have any of that stuff. 344 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:24,433 [Patricia] Because that would actually help you. 345 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:28,066 My problem is, I think that each of you are responsible for some things here. 346 00:12:28,133 --> 00:12:31,667 You're asking on your counterclaim for almost $10,000. 347 00:12:31,734 --> 00:12:35,700 The propane, the four months of rent, and the security deposit. 348 00:12:35,767 --> 00:12:38,100 And you're asking for $10,000 349 00:12:38,165 --> 00:12:40,165 because they didn't pay their utility bills. 350 00:12:40,233 --> 00:12:42,233 Which, of course, you've submitted proof of? 351 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:44,333 -Yes, ma'am. -[Patricia] And the last month's rent, 352 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:45,800 which you've agreed you didn't pay, 353 00:12:45,867 --> 00:12:47,300 and the property damage, 354 00:12:47,367 --> 00:12:49,867 which you're saying, beyond the three doors, 355 00:12:49,934 --> 00:12:51,000 which was what? 356 00:12:51,066 --> 00:12:52,500 You're not charging them for the basement. 357 00:12:52,567 --> 00:12:53,834 -So what else? -[Jason chuckles] No. No. 358 00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:56,033 Just the floors that all came up from the dog urine, 359 00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:58,800 which you admit was caused by you, 360 00:12:58,867 --> 00:12:59,967 because you wouldn't have agreed 361 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,166 to make payment after the first year. 362 00:13:02,233 --> 00:13:04,834 So between that time that he inspected 363 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:06,867 and the end of the first year's lease, 364 00:13:06,934 --> 00:13:08,900 and you moved out in January, 365 00:13:08,967 --> 00:13:12,000 the only way that those flaws could have gotten worse 366 00:13:12,066 --> 00:13:14,700 or more damage from water or urine 367 00:13:14,767 --> 00:13:16,867 was based on things that you've done. 368 00:13:16,934 --> 00:13:19,033 -Judge Levy? -[Adam] Mr. Kincaid. 369 00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:20,834 You basically moved out January 1. 370 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:22,333 You gave notice December 26th. 371 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,867 -December 27th... -Right. That's correct. 372 00:13:23,934 --> 00:13:24,934 ...you gave him 30 days' notice. 373 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,467 But you actually had gone already in about a week. 374 00:13:27,533 --> 00:13:29,233 -We were coming back and forth... -[Lisa] We had started moving. 375 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:30,266 -...every day to clean house. -Yeah. 376 00:13:30,333 --> 00:13:31,200 [Adam] I get that. 377 00:13:31,266 --> 00:13:33,734 And you said that, that as of January 1, 378 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,333 when you were pretty much out, 379 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,700 although coming back and forth, 380 00:13:36,767 --> 00:13:39,300 you had put propane in like what, like a week before? 381 00:13:39,367 --> 00:13:40,934 Like every two weeks we were putting it in. 382 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,000 As of January 1, 2022, 383 00:13:44,066 --> 00:13:47,967 when do you recall placing propane in the tank 384 00:13:48,033 --> 00:13:49,433 prior to that? 385 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:51,567 It was like the middle of December. 386 00:13:51,633 --> 00:13:55,867 And your claim is that the house did not use 387 00:13:55,934 --> 00:13:59,066 that much propane historically from the year before? 388 00:13:59,133 --> 00:14:01,367 -Yes. -[Adam] Now, Minnesota, right, 389 00:14:01,433 --> 00:14:02,767 -where you're from? -[Jason] Yeah. Very cold. 390 00:14:02,834 --> 00:14:04,533 -Pretty cold in the wintertime? -[Jason] Yeah. Yeah. 391 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,533 -I'm from Wyoming. -[Jason laughs] 392 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,367 -[Timothy] You know then. -I know. 393 00:14:08,433 --> 00:14:09,700 Where were you from before... 394 00:14:09,767 --> 00:14:11,800 [Minnesota accent] you decided to move to Minnesota? 395 00:14:11,867 --> 00:14:13,233 -California. -[Adam] California. 396 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:14,433 -[Timothy and Lisa] Yep. -[Adam] All right. 397 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,533 So I'm sure that you loved the cold weather in Minnesota... 398 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:18,934 -[Timothy] Yeah, it's fine. -...in January. 399 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,567 -Yeah, it's not bad. -[Adam] Because I'm looking 400 00:14:20,633 --> 00:14:22,967 at the propane company report 401 00:14:23,033 --> 00:14:24,667 that was provided to us by the plaintiff, 402 00:14:24,734 --> 00:14:25,734 I think this morning. 403 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,800 So when you make the claim 404 00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:29,300 that we shouldn't have been 405 00:14:29,367 --> 00:14:30,767 filling it up that much more, 406 00:14:30,834 --> 00:14:32,165 as you did in your answer, 407 00:14:32,233 --> 00:14:33,400 what did you base that on? 408 00:14:33,467 --> 00:14:34,600 Based it on the year before. 409 00:14:34,667 --> 00:14:35,800 [Adam] Well, let's look at the year before. 410 00:14:35,867 --> 00:14:37,300 A year of going... 411 00:14:37,367 --> 00:14:38,767 We were paying each month for propane. 412 00:14:38,834 --> 00:14:42,633 Well, the problem, Mr. Kincaid, is that it is the same exact number 413 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:44,165 as the year before. 414 00:14:44,233 --> 00:14:46,233 You're not-- You're not a bad person. 415 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:47,867 But you've got to be careful about making representations 416 00:14:47,934 --> 00:14:49,333 that aren't accurate, 417 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,633 the same way I'm going to say now to the plaintiff. 418 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:54,266 Plaintiff over here says you did a complete gut job. 419 00:14:54,333 --> 00:14:56,367 That was the first thing that you said to Judge Acker. 420 00:14:56,433 --> 00:14:59,333 All floors, walls, new appliances. 421 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,533 And Judge DiMango rightfully pointed out 422 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,400 and asked you where are the photographs of that. 423 00:15:03,467 --> 00:15:05,200 And then we found out that your claim 424 00:15:05,266 --> 00:15:08,333 that it was a complete gut job was false. 425 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:09,700 It wasn't a complete gut job. 426 00:15:09,767 --> 00:15:12,367 Who's the witness that you have sitting to your right, my left? 427 00:15:12,433 --> 00:15:14,100 [Jason] This is my brother, Michael Hansen. 428 00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:16,333 Michael, did you do some work on the house? 429 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:17,633 [Michael] I did after they moved out. 430 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:19,200 Come on over. 431 00:15:19,266 --> 00:15:21,567 So you helped your brother out when they moved out? 432 00:15:21,633 --> 00:15:22,867 -I did. -Do you do any work 433 00:15:22,934 --> 00:15:25,033 on any other of the houses that your brother has? 434 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:26,166 Yeah, I've been helping him out 435 00:15:26,233 --> 00:15:27,900 -for the past ten years or so. -[Adam] Yeah? 436 00:15:27,967 --> 00:15:31,066 And so let me ask, despite the fact he's standing right to your left. 437 00:15:31,133 --> 00:15:32,300 This is just between us. 438 00:15:32,367 --> 00:15:34,533 On the other jobs that you did the full gut jobs on, 439 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,934 or gut jobs and refurbishing and remodeling, 440 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,700 did you take photographs of those jobs? 441 00:15:38,767 --> 00:15:40,266 -Typically not, no. -[Adam] Really? 442 00:15:40,333 --> 00:15:41,600 Well, you know, the problem is, 443 00:15:41,667 --> 00:15:43,100 and, as you know, you're the landlord, 444 00:15:43,165 --> 00:15:44,467 that falls on you. 445 00:15:44,533 --> 00:15:45,700 You know, no bueno. 446 00:15:45,767 --> 00:15:47,633 That's not good, because you have to show 447 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:48,967 that the work that you had. 448 00:15:49,033 --> 00:15:52,600 So you're, you basically lay out this picture of a pristine home, 449 00:15:52,667 --> 00:15:54,800 that they come in with their kids and their dogs 450 00:15:54,867 --> 00:15:55,867 and they scratch it up 451 00:15:55,934 --> 00:15:57,934 and they mess up the floors and they do all that. 452 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,200 And you know, though, as a landlord, 453 00:15:59,266 --> 00:16:00,800 that you have to prove what the before was. 454 00:16:00,867 --> 00:16:01,900 But you don't prove that. 455 00:16:01,967 --> 00:16:03,100 How come? 456 00:16:03,166 --> 00:16:05,066 [stammering] I guess I should and I don't 457 00:16:05,133 --> 00:16:06,767 -and I will from now on. -[Adam] Yeah. And that's part-- 458 00:16:06,834 --> 00:16:08,033 And that's part of the problem. 459 00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:09,700 And I'm telling you that that's going to affect 460 00:16:09,767 --> 00:16:11,633 part of your request for damages 461 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:13,400 because we don't know what the before was. 462 00:16:13,467 --> 00:16:16,000 My problem is, you were putting lipstick on a pig. 463 00:16:16,066 --> 00:16:19,166 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice... 464 00:16:19,233 --> 00:16:21,467 The basement looked like Pompeii. 465 00:16:21,533 --> 00:16:23,533 Now, the fact that you were willing to move in 466 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,367 when it was like that, even though he said 467 00:16:25,433 --> 00:16:27,633 he was going to try to fix it, and I get that, 468 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:29,467 doesn't mean that you're able to withhold 469 00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:30,800 four months' worth of rent. 470 00:16:35,734 --> 00:16:38,767 [theme music playing] 471 00:16:38,834 --> 00:16:40,400 You were puttin' in new floors, 472 00:16:40,467 --> 00:16:42,533 new walls, new appliances, 473 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,066 but you had a foundation that was crumbling around you. 474 00:16:45,133 --> 00:16:46,333 What'd you think was going to happen 475 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,567 to those brand-new floors when the foundation fell through? 476 00:16:49,633 --> 00:16:51,734 And the walls that you had just redone? 477 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,533 And now what you're doing is, you're coming in, 478 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,367 and you're saying that you want them to make good 479 00:16:56,433 --> 00:16:59,500 on what you have listed, is almost $13,000 worth of stuff. 480 00:16:59,567 --> 00:17:01,400 There's no doubt that you guys did a lot of work. 481 00:17:01,467 --> 00:17:03,033 The question that I'm going to have 482 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,433 is whether or not they're responsible for it or not. 483 00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:06,532 That's it. Thank you. 484 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:08,000 I do appreciate it. You can have a seat. 485 00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:10,000 I think I understand what happened. 486 00:17:10,066 --> 00:17:11,834 And we're going to do it this way. 487 00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,000 You rented the house from August 2020 to August of 2021. 488 00:17:15,066 --> 00:17:16,165 That was the first lease. 489 00:17:16,233 --> 00:17:18,500 And then you said that you wanted to renew the lease 490 00:17:18,567 --> 00:17:21,133 and you agreed to renew the lease from August '21 491 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,467 to August '22. 492 00:17:22,532 --> 00:17:24,666 But when Mr. Hansen went to go to the walk-through, 493 00:17:24,733 --> 00:17:26,467 he noticed some of the damage in the home, 494 00:17:26,532 --> 00:17:30,166 and that he agreed to allow you to stay for the extra year. 495 00:17:30,233 --> 00:17:31,500 Although you didn't sign the lease, 496 00:17:31,567 --> 00:17:34,100 there was an understanding that he would let you stay 497 00:17:34,166 --> 00:17:36,700 if you agreed not only to continue paying the same rent, 498 00:17:36,767 --> 00:17:38,667 1350, and the other conditions, 499 00:17:38,734 --> 00:17:42,467 but also pay for those damages, pay for them along the way. 500 00:17:42,533 --> 00:17:44,066 Pay for the doors, pay for the floors, 501 00:17:44,133 --> 00:17:45,200 whatever else it was. 502 00:17:45,266 --> 00:17:47,900 -Yes, that was in the lease. -[Adam] When did you start, 503 00:17:47,967 --> 00:17:50,934 sir, Mr. Kincaid, making that additional payment? 504 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,500 -That first month. -[Adam] How much more 505 00:17:52,567 --> 00:17:54,333 did you pay toward the 1350 rent? 506 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,900 I think it was-- I paid the 1350, 507 00:17:55,967 --> 00:17:57,834 and then I paid 150, I believe, 508 00:17:57,900 --> 00:17:59,467 extra for the damages. 509 00:17:59,533 --> 00:18:01,066 -Did he pay 150? -[Jason] He did pay 510 00:18:01,133 --> 00:18:03,400 one payment of $150, and that was it. 511 00:18:03,467 --> 00:18:05,300 [Adam] Now, so you made one payment. 512 00:18:05,367 --> 00:18:07,000 You never made the second payment. 513 00:18:07,066 --> 00:18:10,033 And instead, come September, October of 2021, 514 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:11,433 you started looking for another place. 515 00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:12,834 -Yes. -[Adam] Isn't that what happened? 516 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:14,767 And the reason that you did that, 517 00:18:14,834 --> 00:18:17,266 in part, was because you didn't want to continue paying 518 00:18:17,333 --> 00:18:20,467 the additional money each month for the repairs 519 00:18:20,533 --> 00:18:22,000 that you weren't going to get the benefit of... 520 00:18:22,066 --> 00:18:23,133 -It had nothing to do with the repairs. -Uh-uh. 521 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,500 -It had to do with the basement. -No? So it has to do with the basement. 522 00:18:25,567 --> 00:18:26,600 Here's the problem, though. 523 00:18:26,667 --> 00:18:28,266 You say it has to do with the basement, 524 00:18:28,333 --> 00:18:33,467 but what you say in a text message on December 26th, 2021, 525 00:18:33,533 --> 00:18:35,300 you write, "Hello. Good morning, Jason. 526 00:18:35,367 --> 00:18:37,367 I just want to let you know we're going to be moving out. 527 00:18:37,433 --> 00:18:38,967 So we're giving you 30 days' notice. 528 00:18:39,033 --> 00:18:41,900 We want to thank you for letting us rent out your place. 529 00:18:41,967 --> 00:18:43,600 It is a really nice house. 530 00:18:43,667 --> 00:18:45,834 Thank you. Have a great day." 531 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:47,367 -Yeah, I remember that one. -[Adam] Okay. 532 00:18:47,433 --> 00:18:48,900 So what you don't say there is, 533 00:18:48,967 --> 00:18:50,867 "Hey, you never fixed the basement. 534 00:18:50,934 --> 00:18:51,934 It wasn't safe." 535 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,834 Are there any text messages in which you complained to him 536 00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:56,934 about the safety issues that you claim 537 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,300 were caused by the basement that you knew about 538 00:18:59,367 --> 00:19:01,734 when you moved in in August of 2020? 539 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,433 I don't know about that. There should be a couple. 540 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:05,000 -[Adam] I don't-- -Mainly, all of it was-- 541 00:19:05,066 --> 00:19:07,467 I know, but the problem is, I don't have any of them. 542 00:19:07,533 --> 00:19:09,633 So your claim that the reason you moved out 543 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:11,967 was because of a safety concern for your children, 544 00:19:12,033 --> 00:19:14,734 based upon the basement and the photographs that we saw, 545 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,033 is belied by the fact that it was in the same condition 546 00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:18,667 the basement was in when you moved in, 547 00:19:18,734 --> 00:19:20,100 and you had no problem with it, 548 00:19:20,166 --> 00:19:23,567 belied by this text message I just read from December 2021, 549 00:19:23,633 --> 00:19:25,967 where you say, "You have a really nice house. Thank you." 550 00:19:26,033 --> 00:19:27,967 And there are no other text messages, 551 00:19:28,033 --> 00:19:30,934 by you, to him, in any way, shape, or form, 552 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,633 suggesting that you were concerned about your children's safety. 553 00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:36,734 The fact is, it was clear that there were structural issues 554 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:38,467 in August of 2020. 555 00:19:38,533 --> 00:19:39,767 What you know is that 556 00:19:39,834 --> 00:19:42,066 the basement looked like Pompeii. 557 00:19:42,133 --> 00:19:44,100 Now, the fact that you were willing to move in 558 00:19:44,166 --> 00:19:45,834 when it was like that, even though he said 559 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,233 he was going to try to fix it, and I get that, 560 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:49,667 doesn't mean that you're able 561 00:19:49,734 --> 00:19:51,500 to withhold four months' worth of rent. 562 00:19:51,567 --> 00:19:52,834 It doesn't. 563 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:53,967 Thank you. I have nothing further. 564 00:19:54,033 --> 00:19:55,734 [Patricia] We're going to retire to deliberate. Thank you all. 565 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,467 Court now stands in recess. Parties are excused. 566 00:19:58,533 --> 00:20:00,500 [theme music playing] 567 00:20:00,567 --> 00:20:03,433 So let's start with Mr. Hansen's complaint. 568 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:05,667 He goes in, August 2021, 569 00:20:05,734 --> 00:20:07,033 says that there are damages. 570 00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:08,700 They acknowledge those damages, 571 00:20:08,767 --> 00:20:11,133 and say that they're going to compensate him for them. 572 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,400 So that included damages to the floors and the doors. 573 00:20:15,467 --> 00:20:18,166 I would hold them liable for that, for sure... 574 00:20:18,233 --> 00:20:19,100 [Patricia] Mm-hmm. 575 00:20:19,166 --> 00:20:20,300 ...because they acknowledge that they did it. 576 00:20:20,367 --> 00:20:23,900 He also submitted evidence of extensive cleaning he had to do, 577 00:20:23,967 --> 00:20:25,100 including disinfecting 578 00:20:25,166 --> 00:20:26,700 -because of the urine. -Yes. 579 00:20:26,767 --> 00:20:29,200 Um, I would give him that based on the testimony. 580 00:20:29,266 --> 00:20:31,567 -Correct. -[Tanya] The rent is clear. 581 00:20:31,633 --> 00:20:33,934 He submitted evidence of the unpaid utilities. 582 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,533 I would award him that. 583 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,367 I don't see anything on their countersuit. 584 00:20:37,433 --> 00:20:40,734 I mean, Pompeian as that basement may have been, 585 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,233 -it was like that-- -What about the $2600 586 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,500 for the 130 hours of work that the plaintiff said 587 00:20:44,567 --> 00:20:47,333 he and his brother were doing to do that work? 588 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,233 Even if you eliminate that, they're still over $10,000. 589 00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:51,667 I think he's still at our jurisdictional max, 590 00:20:51,734 --> 00:20:54,600 with the other damages, without even considering the work. 591 00:20:54,667 --> 00:20:57,867 [Adam] Then where do we stand on the security? 592 00:20:57,934 --> 00:21:00,967 So you still have $2700 in security. 593 00:21:01,033 --> 00:21:03,533 I mean, we only, just for purposes of calculations, 594 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,533 I eliminated the 2600 for the hours of work. 595 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,433 I don't think we need to subtract anything, 596 00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:09,900 -because this is... -Oh, because of the labor? 597 00:21:09,967 --> 00:21:11,433 -Yeah, because we don't-- -Yeah, I'm with you. 598 00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:12,934 -I'll give him his labor. -So I'd rather just give him... 599 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,266 -I'll give him the labor costs. -And therefore, there goes your 27 600 00:21:15,333 --> 00:21:17,100 -if you want to subtract it. -[Adam] I have-- Listen. 601 00:21:17,166 --> 00:21:19,500 I wasn't comfortable with the plaintiff coming in, 602 00:21:19,567 --> 00:21:21,533 and the first thing he said to you, Tanya, 603 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,633 was he did a complete gut job of that house. 604 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,600 [Patricia] You just didn't say, "Put it back together again." 605 00:21:25,667 --> 00:21:27,667 -He did a complete, a complete-- -[Patricia laughs] 606 00:21:27,734 --> 00:21:30,633 And it was-- And it was anything but a complete gut job. 607 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,834 And what he was trying to do was to say that the house 608 00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:34,633 was in pristine condition until they got it. 609 00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:37,333 That was a bit of bad faith on his part. 610 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,800 And the fact that they did not take any photographs, 611 00:21:39,867 --> 00:21:41,700 prior to, he acknowledged that that was a mistake. 612 00:21:41,767 --> 00:21:42,800 Yeah, it was a mistake. 613 00:21:42,867 --> 00:21:44,900 You're the landlord. You were going to do this work, 614 00:21:44,967 --> 00:21:46,433 even though you are putting lipstick on a pig. 615 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:48,667 But the plaintiffs didn't say the walls weren't done. 616 00:21:48,734 --> 00:21:49,900 They didn't say the floors weren't done, 617 00:21:49,967 --> 00:21:52,100 and they didn't take any photographs either. 618 00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:53,767 He was going to be doing the work anyway. 619 00:21:53,834 --> 00:21:57,300 Now they're just trying to lay that cost off on the defendants. 620 00:21:57,367 --> 00:21:59,567 -Not all of this work. Not all of it. -[Adam] No. No. No, no, no. 621 00:21:59,633 --> 00:22:01,633 Well, the 2600 for the 130 hours 622 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:02,767 that they spent doing the work 623 00:22:02,834 --> 00:22:04,133 is the work that they would have spent, 624 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,700 -and really, it-- -But he had to do it. 625 00:22:05,767 --> 00:22:07,266 He had to pay it as a result 626 00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:09,700 of these particular damages that they acknowledge. 627 00:22:09,767 --> 00:22:10,900 I'd give him the labor on it. 628 00:22:10,967 --> 00:22:12,934 I'd give him the $10,000 629 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,767 because that includes the labor 630 00:22:14,834 --> 00:22:16,200 minus the 2700, 631 00:22:16,266 --> 00:22:18,400 and I would dismiss the counterclaim. 632 00:22:18,467 --> 00:22:19,934 And on behalf of the pigs, I want to say 633 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,233 they might be a protected class, with you insulting them like that. 634 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:24,133 Well, listen, I would love to make it unanimous. 635 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,734 I'm just going to dissent there, just on that one issue. 636 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,700 -[Tanya] Just with respect to that. -Just on that one issue. 637 00:22:28,767 --> 00:22:30,900 -Very good. All righty. -I'm with you. 638 00:22:30,967 --> 00:22:33,667 [theme music playing] 639 00:22:33,734 --> 00:22:35,233 Court is back in session. 640 00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,200 Parties are reminded you're still under oath. 641 00:22:37,266 --> 00:22:39,066 -Thank you, Byrd. -You're welcome, Judge. 642 00:22:39,133 --> 00:22:40,900 [Tanya] We've deliberated, and we've reached 643 00:22:40,967 --> 00:22:43,800 a unanimous verdict as to your countersuit. 644 00:22:43,867 --> 00:22:46,100 And we are not unanimous, Mr. Hansen, 645 00:22:46,166 --> 00:22:47,567 as to your case-in-chief. 646 00:22:47,633 --> 00:22:49,300 With respect to your countersuit, 647 00:22:49,367 --> 00:22:52,967 we could not find that you were exonerated from paying rent 648 00:22:53,033 --> 00:22:55,133 because of the problems in the home. 649 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,300 You have to pay rent. 650 00:22:56,367 --> 00:22:57,800 And there was no evidence that the house 651 00:22:57,867 --> 00:22:59,967 was uninhabitable or so dangerous 652 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:01,633 that you couldn't live there safely. 653 00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:03,834 So we do have to dismiss your countersuit. 654 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:06,400 With respect to your complaints, sir, 655 00:23:06,467 --> 00:23:08,233 now, here we were not unanimous. 656 00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:10,567 We did agree that there were some damages 657 00:23:10,633 --> 00:23:13,133 for which the defendants are responsible. 658 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,533 Judge Levy, however, would not compensate you 659 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,233 for the money that your brother spent 660 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:20,667 getting the property back up to snuff, 661 00:23:20,734 --> 00:23:24,266 because, as we pointed out at the outset of the case, 662 00:23:24,333 --> 00:23:25,800 his position was, you were going to have 663 00:23:25,867 --> 00:23:28,266 to pay a laborer to do the labor, 664 00:23:28,333 --> 00:23:29,967 either because they damaged it 665 00:23:30,033 --> 00:23:31,700 or because of your remodel, 666 00:23:31,767 --> 00:23:33,600 so he would not have given you that money. 667 00:23:33,667 --> 00:23:35,433 Judge DiMango and I concluded that 668 00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:38,000 because there were damages, that we do believe 669 00:23:38,066 --> 00:23:39,600 were attributable to these defendants, 670 00:23:39,667 --> 00:23:42,467 that you're entitled to receive the labor payment 671 00:23:42,533 --> 00:23:45,133 for the work that was done to get the property back together. 672 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,033 So we are going to award you 673 00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:49,767 the full $10,000 that you are seeking. 674 00:23:49,834 --> 00:23:51,633 That is the judgment of this court. 675 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,367 We do wish you both the best of luck. 676 00:23:53,433 --> 00:23:55,033 Good luck to you. Good luck to you. 677 00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,333 Ten thousand dollars to the plaintiff. 678 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,800 -That's our verdict. -[Jason] Mm-hmm. Thank you. 679 00:23:57,867 --> 00:24:00,300 [Byrd] This case is now concluded. 680 00:24:00,367 --> 00:24:02,333 Parties are excused. You may step out. 681 00:24:04,533 --> 00:24:06,734 I think it was not the right decision to make. 682 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,567 I think it was a very fair and just decision. 683 00:24:08,633 --> 00:24:09,967 Landlords should be accountable for stuff 684 00:24:10,033 --> 00:24:11,200 that the tenants didn't do. 685 00:24:11,266 --> 00:24:13,500 I was really sad that the house can get destroyed 686 00:24:13,567 --> 00:24:15,533 in 18 months of a tenant like that. 687 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,867 We found a way better place. 688 00:24:16,934 --> 00:24:18,033 Yeah, much better. 689 00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:19,567 I'm going to take a lot of pictures from now on 690 00:24:19,633 --> 00:24:21,667 before people move in. [laughs] 691 00:24:21,734 --> 00:24:24,266 [announcer] Need to take someone to court? 692 00:24:24,333 --> 00:24:27,533 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 693 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,500 Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice. 694 00:24:30,567 --> 00:24:33,500 [theme music playing]