You needed a car, and she's not paid you a dime?
Yup.
Something to do with my check was messed up or something like that.
Something happened where I wasn't able to send her money.
I can't quite recall.
I tried to go back to our old messages but I didn't have them.
Red flag, red flag, red flag.
You're full of it from all angles.
[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in St. Francis, Minnesota.
[Byrd] Your Honor, this is case number 2012
on the calendar in the matter Olson versus Grampre.
- Thank you, Byrd. - You're welcome, Judge.
Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
[Judge Acker] Ms. Olson and Ms. Grampre.
You've known each other since you were nine years old.
And, Ms. Olson, when your husband passed away,
you decided to sell his car.
It was a second car, you didn't need it.
- Yup. - You needed a car?
Correct.
[Judge Acker] Ms. Olson, you decided to sell the car for $2,500,
no money down, and she was supposed to make payments.
She's now had the car for over seven months
- and she's not paid you a dime? - Yes.
[Judge Acker] So you are suing her for $2,500.
Ms. Grampre, your defense is that
the plaintiff hasn't cooperated with you
in order to do what's necessary to make the car drivable
- and put it in your name? - Correct.
[Judge Acker] As a consequence, if you drive the car,
you could get pulled over for driving a stolen vehicle,
and you believe that you really can't pay her any money
until she does what's necessary to perfect title in your name?
Correct.
Ms. Olson, when did your husband pass away?
Uh, June of 2022.
- [Judge Acker] We're sorry for your loss. - Thank you.
When did you decide to sell his car?
- On April of 2023. - [Judge Acker] April of--
and I note that you put your ad up on Facebook
because you wanted to get as many potential buyers as possible.
May we see the ad, please?
This is the ad that you placed
for your late husband's 2002 Chevy Avalanche.
[Jamie] Yes.
[Judge Acker] Not a bad looking-truck,
- very good condition. - [Jamie] Yes.
So you responded almost immediately, didn't you, ma'am?
I don't remember. I'm sure I did.
[Judge Acker] And as I recall from the evidence,
it was very important that you'd be able to make payments
because you weren't in a position to make a down payment.
- [Kelsey] Correct. - Why was that?
'Cause I recently moved out to a town,
um, that is like--doesn't have any jobs nearby.
So I was taking care of my sick mother, she's dying,
and she needed more around-the-clock care.
Well, I have two kids, so I also had to move my kids with--
we had to get a new place big enough for all of us anyway.
And so with the recent job loss
and then having to move out to a town
where anywhere I'd go would need a vehicle,
so I wasn't able to get a second job at the time.
So you needed a car and you didn't have funds for a down payment.
- [Kelsey] Correct. - So it's a very, very big deal.
I just want to establish that at the outset
that your friend was allowing you to just make payments on the car.
Correct.
[Judge Acker] On the 25th, the day after the ad,
you actually executed an agreement for these payments.
May we see the agreement, please?
There we go.
"I, Jamie Olson, the plaintiff,
am agreeing to let Kelsey Grampre, the defendant,
purchase my 2002 Chevy Avalanche for $2,500.
Kelsey has agreed to make payments bi-weekly
towards this purchase until paid in full."
You were so excited about it that you didn't even need to inspect the car.
You showed up, you take the car, you drive away.
When, Ms. Grampre, were you going to make your first payment?
So my first payment would've been, I believe, it was the following--
like, two weeks after the time I had gotten the vehicle,
- so I don't remember... - May 8th, correct?
[Kelsey] Yeah, so it would've been May 8th.
[Judge Acker] What happened on May 8th?
Um, I don't really remember exactly.
I know that she had reached out for the payment
and I--something to do with my check was messed up or something like that.
I can't quite recall.
I tried to go back to our old messages but I didn't have them.
Can we please put up plaintiff's exhibit one, the text exchange?
So on May 3rd, there is a text message from the plaintiff.
"Hey, were you gonna pay some today or tomorrow?"
And what do you say? I'd like you to read that.
[Kelsey] Um, "Tomorrow, well, as soon as it hits my account.
Could usually be at midnight,
um, but could be between now and whatever tomorrow."
[Judge Acker] You do not do that. Why not?
Like I said, I don't really remember exactly what happened.
I know that I was trying to send it to her.
Um, something was happening with it not being able to be sent.
But then right after the first payment was right when I got pulled over
and I got told that I needed to get the...
[Judge Acker] Right after what payment?
- 'Cause she hasn't received anything. - No, I know.
Not--I'm saying like right after that time had--I--she had asked--
I don't remember what happened with my first check.
Something happened where I wasn't able to send her money. I don't...
[Judge Acker] Can we put up plaintiff's exhibit one, page 10?
Tell us why you got pulled over while we're waiting for that.
Um, he pulled us over because, um, the kids in the back,
they--he said that they looked like they weren't seatbelted
'cause they were dancing.
- Good eyes, officer. - [Kelsey] Right. Right.
I mean, they were, so--I mean, he apologized and stuff.
But then when he ran the, um, plates,
he said that the vehicle was in, um, a deceased person's name, of course.
And so when I had explained I had bought it from her
and on which date, he--that's when he explained to me
that he was gonna give me a warning this time
but that I should've already had it transferred.
- The car wasn't in your name... - [Kelsey] Correct.
... because the car was still in her late husband's name.
- Yes. Yup. - [Judge Acker] And this is when?
Do you recall when you were pulled over?
I don't know the exact date, nobody was...
[Judge Acker] Two weeks after the sale, three weeks, a month?
It was--I mean, it was really early.
It was, you know, three weeks maybe.
Right around the time when the plaintiff is telling you,
and can we put up plaintiff's exhibit one?
- "Hey, I really..." - I need payment.
- [Judge Acker] "... could use the money." - Uh-hmm.
[Judge Acker] What do you do for a living, ma'am?
Uh, I'm a supervisor of a group home
and then I also manage an apartment building.
I'm just gonna go out on a limb
and say that if you wanted to give the car away for free,
you would've taken it to a homeless shelter...
- Anywhere, yes. - [Judge Acker] ... or taken it somewhere
- and donated it. - Yes.
- That is right, yeah. - So let me go back to you, Ms. Grampre,
because what's confusing to me
is that when I look at these text messages,
it's several weeks now.
And what do you say, Ms. Grampre?
You don't tell her, "I can't pay you
until you sign these documents."
You're actually offering to pay her in full, aren't you?
[Kelsey] Right.
[Judge Acker] Now why at this point
are you not making more of an issue of what is your key defense?
Your key defense says the car is undrivable.
"I am subject and exposed to being pulled over by the police
because you won't sign these papers."
Instead of saying that, it seems to me that you're stringing her along.
Absolutely. So this must have not been--
so I must have got pulled over a little bit after this
'cause I have--I have not been able to reach out to her
since I got pulled over.
So if I was talking to her without saying anything,
that's because it hadn't happened yet.
Ms. Olson, you had advised us that at some point,
I believe it was first in June,
- you were contacted by law enforcement... - Yup.
[Judge Acker] ... regarding the vehicle
that was now in the defendant's possession?
Yes. Um, the police officer called
and he had said that he had video of someone in my vehicle
and wanted to know why it was in my name and not their name.
Um, I told them who I had sold the truck to,
um, and he said that he would try and figure it out,
and I never heard back from that officer.
What was going on on June 30th, Ms. Grampre?
Were the kids dancing in the back?
- [Kelsey] No. I don't... - Like, what was happening?
- I don't know. I'm not sure. - [Judge Acker] Did you get pulled over?
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
Why did you not give the car back?
I haven't talked to her since then.
[Judge DiMango] She doesn't have your information.
[Kelsey] I tried to get a hold of her. I...
How? How? How did you do that? Did you smoke...
On social media.
- [Judge DiMango] You used Facebook? - Yes.
Forgot how to type?
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Jamie Olson is suing childhood friend
Kelsey Grampre for $2,500,
the agreed price for her truck.
Jamie says she never got a dime.
But Kelsey claims Jamie never gave her the proper paperwork.
What was going on on June 30th, Ms. Grampre?
Were the kids dancing in the back?
- [Kelsey] No. I don't... - Like, what was happening?
- I don't know. I'm not sure. - [Judge Acker] Did you get pulled over?
I--not--I haven't got pulled-- except for the one time,
I've never been pulled over.
Do you have even the remotest recollection
of when you were pulled over and first advised...
- [Kelsey] I mean... - [Judge Acker] ... of the fact that these
documents needed to be signed?
No, I've--I honestly don't remember at all.
I guess it wasn't as significant of a date
to me at the time.
Um, but I know that it was after that--
like, you have so long to get the title transferred
when you buy a vehicle, and I know that it was...
By this point, you've had the car for weeks.
- Right. - Weeks.
In October, you've become aware
of another situation involving law enforcement.
- [Jamie] Yes. - What was that?
Um, I got another phone call from another police officer,
um, stating that they had video of Kelsey or someone driving the vehicle,
um, doing a gas-and-go at a gas station,
- yeah, and left. Yup. - Stealing gas?
Were you involved in a gas-and-go incident in...
Yes. Well, it wasn't a gas-and-go.
So I had paid in--
or I had went in and paid for a pop,
and I guess I didn't pay for my gas.
And so he called me and I immediately went right back there and paid for it.
- [Judge Acker] In her car? - [Kelsey] Yeah.
[Judge Acker] Because initially, you said it was very early on
- that you were pulled over... - [Kelsey] Uh-hmm.
... and you can't drive the car
- because she won't sign these documents. - Right.
Yet that was in April, then May.
Now we're in October and you're driving her car,
apparently not afraid of getting pulled over,
- not having paid her a cent... - [Kelsey] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Acker] ... and she's getting calls from law enforcement.
- Right. - [Judge Acker] Very, very shady.
- Judge DiMango? - [Judge DiMango] Scammer.
That's what you are.
Every word out of your mouth in here has begun with,
"I don't know, I'm confused.
I don't know, I really don't remember exactly what.
I know I went in and I paid for a pop.
And then I left and didn't pay for the gas,
and then I went back." You are so full of it.
You're full of it from all angles.
You didn't even have the decency to give it back to her.
I mean, I would've.
[Judge DiMango] I mean, you didn't give her anything for it.
It's not like you say, "Well, I'm not giving it back
until she gives me back the money I gave her."
I--you know, there's a couple of favorite things I have in the text messages.
"Oh, my God--" This is you.
"Oh, my God, Jamie,
you're literally saving my life right now
by doing this for me for real."
- Uh-hmm. Yes. - So much for life-saving.
Right after that, you say, "Can I put off the first payment?
I just made my son's first payment, I can't pay you."
So not even the first payment.
Red flag, red flag, red flag.
Yeah. Yeah. She was my friend all my life.
I thought she was good for it.
- [Judge DiMango] Is she your friend now? - [Jamie] No.
[Judge DiMango] This is another one of my favorites.
When you ask her, "How come you haven't paid me?"
This is now May 4th.
You write, "Oh, my God. No, no, don't be sorry.
I'm sorry."
Now, this is the true sign of a scammer.
"I've always been paid Wednesday around midnight,
- but I switched my bank." - [Jamie] Yup.
"This last time and technically
- I don't usually get paid till Friday." - Yeah.
[Judge DiMango] "So either the new bank isn't going to pay me early
like my last bank and I won't get it till tomorrow is what I'm assuming,
but it's weird because I got emailed my pay stub
yesterday as if it would've been deposited.
I'm so confused."
What you're really saying to her is,
"I hope you're confused."
Because that's what scammers do.
They BS their way around the truth
with the hope that their sucker--sorry.
- Buys into their ridiculous scam. - True. True statement.
What took you so long?
Uh, I thought she was gonna come around
and then I couldn't get ahold of her. Um, she blocked me...
[Judge DiMango] Do you know where she lived?
No, I don't. I just knew that she lived in Cokato.
I did not know where or if she was still there.
Um, when the cops were calling, it was all different cities.
Um, I never had her address. And that was it.
Listen, I do know that when somebody passes away
and you get their vehicle, there are certain things you need to do.
You need the letters testamentary,
you need the death certificate, you need those things.
It was in both of our names. So I was...
But the bottom line is, why did you not give the car back?
- Why? - I haven't talked to her since then.
She doesn't have your information.
[Kelsey] I tried to get a hold of her. I...
How? How? How did you do that? Did you send...
- [Kelsey] On social media. - ... smoke signals?
- You use Facebook? - Yes.
Forgot how to type?
No, I wasn't able to find her account.
I couldn't find her account.
[Judge DiMango] Oh. You're so confused, right?
'Cause you couldn't find her account.
I mean, I just love the blank expression on your face
of, "I can't believe that she's thinking this of me.
How dare she?" Right?
- It's not what I'm thinking. - [Judge DiMango] "How dare you."
Actually, someone like you I don't wanna know what you're thinking.
Why did you lose touch with her, as a friend?
Uh, I don't know. We just kind of went our own separate ways.
We were just living life and everything.
[Judge DiMango] And for how many years was that?
Uh, probably like ten maybe.
Probably, I'm gonna tell you, the luckiest ten years of your life.
- [Jamie] Oh. Yeah. [laughs] - Judge Levy?
[Judge Levy] Thank you.
Ms. Olson, Judge Acker asked you during her inquiry
about that June 30th call that you received from the police.
- Yup. - You don't remember the details
of what he said?
He wouldn't tell me, um, anything about it.
Um, that first call that I received,
he told me that they just had a video
of someone driving the vehicle doing something illegal.
And, Ms. Grampre, that wasn't you, right?
No. I mean, I've never heard anything about it.
Right, 'cause what you told Judge Acker, I wrote it down.
Except for that one time 'cause your kids were jumping around,
you had never been pulled over, that's what you said.
Correct. In that vehicle, yeah. No, I've never...
[Judge Levy] No, no, no. You didn't say that vehicle.
Oh. What do you mean? No, I've been pulled over in my life.
- Sure. - [Judge Levy] Yeah.
- I'm sorry, I meant been that... - Yeah. Sure, you have.
- [Kelsey] ... I never been pulled over. - Sure, you have.
When was the time before April of 2023
that you got pulled over, and for what?
[Kelsey] Um, I think it was for--
- oh, I--my old tabs tickets years prior. - [Judge Levy] No what?
No--or my expired tabs. I'm sorry.
- [Judge Levy] Expired tabs? - [Kelsey] Yeah.
- And how long prior to that? Was it... - [Kelsey] Years.
... before--it was way before like even COVID?
Oh, uh, actually, no.
It was right when COVID had ended.
So you're talking about 2021?
The only time that I had been pulled over?
[Judge Levy] Yeah.
Except for in the vehicle.
[Judge Levy] And that was it.
I just wanna make sure that I understand your testimony correct.
- [Kelsey] Yeah, I'm pretty sure. - Yeah.
You know what the great state of Minnesota allows you to do?
- What's that? - [Judge Levy] For free?
The great state of Minnesota for free allows you--anyone...
- Uh-hmm. - ... to go on their website
and to find out whether someone's been arrested
for driving with revoked suspended licenses.
- You know that, don't you? - [Jamie] Yes, I looked it up.
[Judge Levy] You looked it up. Of course you did.
- I sure did. - [Judge Levy] 'Cause you looked it up
after you found out that your friend was scamming you.
I looked it up. Yes, I did.
[Judge Levy] So, ma'am, notwithstanding, Ms. Grampre,
your prior sworn testimony
that the only time you ever got stopped was for tabs.
- Let's go through it. - Uh-hmm.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
You said something in your complaint about your friend over here
when you lost touch with her was having some problems.
What kind of problems was she having?
I'm not exactly sure, uh, everything.
[Judge Levy] Yeah, well, don't try to protect her now.
- We're here. - [Jamie] No, no.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Jamie Olson sold her truck to childhood friend Kelsey Grampre.
But Jamie claims her friend skipped town
and then used the truck to commit traffic violations
and minor crimes.
Notwithstanding, Ms. Grampre, your prior sworn testimony
that the only time you ever got stopped was for tabs.
- Let's go through it. - Uh-hmm.
[Judge Levy] Hmm. I need my glasses. Let's see.
October 28, 2022, you were arrested
and subsequently convicted.
You were driving with a revoked license
and you failed to obey a lawful order of the police
because you tried to hide from him
when he was trying to track you down.
So I've never been arrested.
- [Judge Levy] No, you were arrested. - I was not.
[Judge Levy] Those were two misdemeanors.
- Okay. - March 6th, 2023,
in convicted revoked license.
March 3rd, 2022, convicted again,
driving with expired registration.
August, 2017,
convicted driving with a suspended license,
driving without insurance.
2017, convicted of driving with a suspended license.
So let me help...
I don't know what that has to do with any of this, like...
[Judge Levy] Well, let me ask you this.
Your whole defense is that,
"I couldn't register the car
because it was in a dead guy's name."
Despite the fact that the title was in both names.
So no police officer said that it was in the name of a dead guy
because this plaintiff, and she signed over the title,
- and she's not dead. - No.
[Judge Levy] The reason you couldn't register the vehicle
- was because your license is revoked. - [Kelsey] That's untrue.
- That's the reason why you can't. - That's untrue.
- [Judge Levy] Of course it is. - That's untrue.
You said something in your complaint about your friend over here
when you lost touch with her was having some problems.
What kind of problems was she having?
Uh, I'm not exactly sure, uh, everything.
- [Judge Levy] Yeah, well... - Drugs maybe.
- [Judge Levy] Drugs. - [Jamie] Could be drugs.
- [Judge Levy] It wasn't drugs maybe. - [Jamie] Could be something.
You wrote it in your complaint.
Don't try to protect her now.
- We're here. -[Jamie] No, no.
[laughs]
No, I said in the past she had done drugs.
[Judge Levy] In the past.
- And I said maybe that's... - In the past, what kind of drugs?
- Uh, I know she used to use meth. - [Judge Levy] Yeah.
- Yeah. - [Judge Levy] Methamphetamine.
- You're still using? - No.
What does it have to do with this? Like...
[Judge Levy] Well, listen, I'm just going by what your friend put in...
- [Jamie] Okay. I didn't put none of that. - ... what your former friend
- put in her complaint. - I've never heard of that before.
[Judge Levy] You come in here and you blatantly lie to us.
You still have your best friend's car
despite the fact that she was, "Saving my life
for giving me your car when no one else,
would let me make payments."
Here's the problem with people like you.
You go through your whole life telling a bunch of BS to people
and no one confronts you with it.
So because they don't confront you, you figure,
"Oh, I must've gotten away with it.
They must've believed me."
Gives you confidence to come into a court
and do the same thing.
Problem is, we don't fall for that.
We don't.
I have nothing further.
[Judge DiMango] We're gonna retire to deliberate this time.
- Thank you, ladies. - [Jamie] Okay.
Court now stands in recess.
Parties are excused.
[dramatic musical sting]
A clearer case I have not seen in a minute.
This is very straightforward.
The plaintiff did a nice thing
and her "friend"-- I use the term very loosely--
completely took advantage of her.
This defense is not just silly,
but it's inherently nonsensical.
If you can't drive the car, give the car back.
Don't start using the car on your various capers around town.
It's a very clear $2,500 judgment in my view.
[Judge DiMango] Totally agree with you.
And I believe personally that she never had any intention
of paying for this car in the first instance,
that's why immediately she said to her,
"You're a lifesaver, but I can't make the first payment."
And that's why she said, "No, no. You can keep the title in your name."
Because she didn't wanna be responsible for anything
that happened with it, and she knew if she left it with the plaintiff,
they'd have no way of tracing it to her.
I mean, she just never had an intention of paying for it.
I'm a hundred percent onboard with you.
I agree as far as the verdict is concerned.
Perhaps during your verdict, you may wanna tell the plaintiff
that that bill of sale that she prepared, it was good,
but it wasn't enough.
The problem is that when you turn over a vehicle to someone,
uh, with the plates still on it.
If the defendant would have parked it illegally
and racked up $10,000 worth of bills,
- police are coming after the plaintiff. - Sure.
'Cause the car is still registered to the plaintiff.
- Uh-hmm. - That's a great point.
That's why when you sell a car to someone, you must take the plates back
because of defendants like this, exactly.
But clearly the defendant owes the $2,500.
I just think the plaintiff got nothing for this car except calls from the police.
- Let's give this woman her money. - Okay.
[dramatic musical sting]
[Byrd] Court is back in session.
Parties are reminded you're still under oath.
- Thank you, Byrd. - Uh-hmm.
We've deliberated and we've reached a unanimous verdict.
Our decision will not come as a surprise to either of you.
It is unanimously in favor of the plaintiff
for the full amount requested of $2,500.
There are a couple of things that we want you and other folks in your situation,
Ms. Olson, to be aware of.
Judge Levy made a great point in chambers
that it's important to take off license plates for instance
because you never know what might happen.
So if something goes awry, it's not on you.
Those are legal things that you should be wary of
when you are involved in these sorts of transactions.
And, Ms. Grampre, I know you are upset now
and I know that this could not have been a pleasant experience for you.
But what I would urge you to do is to have a little empathy
for the friend who helped you out
and ended up having to go to court,
which frankly, it is hard, it is a pain.
You forced a woman, after having lost her husband,
you forced her to do this.
So frankly, your tears should be for what you put her through,
not for however badly me and my colleagues made you feel today
because all of this could have been avoided, including your embarrassment,
if you had just done what you were supposed to.
You did a kind thing and we're happy that we could make you whole.
Judgment in favor of the plaintiff for $2,500.
- [Jamie] Thank you. - [gavel bangs]
[Byrd] This case is now concluded.
Parties are excused.
[theme music plays]
I wanted to pay her, so...
Um, I figured that I was gonna win
considering she pretty much stole my truck from me.
I was just late making payments. I just couldn't afford it right away.
She started blocking me on everything, ignored me on everything,
so I didn't know what she was doing.
Yeah, I just hope I can get the friendship back. That's all.
Probably not anytime soon, no. [laughs]
We went ten years without each other. I'm sure we can go another ten.
[announcer] Have you been scammed?
Let the majority rule in your favor on Tribunal Justice.
Find us on social media.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]