[announcer] Previously on Tribunal Justice.
You and your husband run horse shows.
I put on these shows because we wanna help the community.
- You didn't show up, right? - I was very, very sick.
She has continually lied to me.
And she went off on you,
- she went ballistic. - Yes.
- Ridiculous. - She was pissed.
[dramatic, percussive music]
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in Santa Ynez, California.
[Judge Levy] All three of you, nice, smart, business people.
You're fighting over 293 bucks and $290.
There's a lot more to it
because you felt put off, you didn't feel as though your time was being appreciated.
You're working at the store one day, you contact the defendant and say,
"Hey, I can't find certain things, can you let me know?"
And she doesn't respond.
So you've been messaging, calling her for four hours.
You're working at her store, you're trying to make her money.
And then, finally, at 5:41 that afternoon,
she says, "Sorry, I fell asleep."
And then, gives you a list of answers
about what you were looking for from her.
Do you remember that?
I have two kids, I'm a single parent, and I work another job as well.
- [Judge Levy] I'm not saying--listen. - I was really tired that day.
- Listen, I get all--I get all that. - [Christina] I was asleep.
- Uh, I--listen. - [Christina] It's a lot.
I get all that.
The text messages, however, made it crystal clear
that there were expectations put on the plaintiff
and that you were not following through.
Even in September, even after all of this goes on,
she still says, "If your daughter wants to continue riding, you can."
You said, "I'm working on it."
And then, she says to you, "I've got to have your entry please,"
capital PLEASE.
"Per your commitment, I'm holding you a spot."
And then, at 9:00 a.m., two hours later, you said, "I might have to work."
There's a history about you scheduling things with her
- and then canceling, is that right? - Yes, sir.
I never committed to the horse show, Your Honor.
I just said I was trying to possibly deal with it...
[Judge Levy] I'm asking here, September. Do you remember...
- Yeah, I didn't commit. - ... asking that your daughter
hold a spot, and then you said you can't make it 'cause you're working?
- Yeah, I had to get called into my store. - [Judge Levy] Okay.
I didn't have someone to cover. I had to work.
- [Judge Levy] I got it. - And I didn't commit to the show.
And then, she knew moving in, and I've been pooling out my store,
and it's a flexible schedule, I told her that.
It's not a permanent every Wednesday schedule.
I told her that from the beginning.
I said, "Typically, Wednesdays are the days that I do need help
but sometimes, I have to come in Wednesday because Friday afternoon,
my daughter needs me and I have to change my schedule..."
- [Judge Levy] Okay. So... - "... and then I need you Friday."
Did you forget your acknowledgment and admission a few moments ago
where you said the reason on June 1st that you pretty much told her,
"Hey, don't bother coming in today,"
was because of the conversation that you had with your mother...
- No, I remember that. Yeah. - ... about May--about May 31st.
I didn't know how to react 'cause I have had issues with Carole in the past
and to be honest, how she treated my mother who did let her know
that her guy was stuck in a ditch and had no reception,
which is why he did not make it on time,
she let Carole know that.
And what happened,
and Carole has also done this to me as well in the past for other issues,
that I was afraid to have her in my store
and I needed to figure out how to handle it,
because I have a lot on my plate
and I can't have an explosive personality
in my store and around me.
And it was my fault--I shouldn't have tried to sign up for the last show.
I knew I was gonna-- something was gonna happen,
which is why I did not scratch ahead of time.
- And I... - [Judge Levy] So you acknowledge
- that you owe her that money? - [Christina] Hundred percent.
I never said I wouldn't pay her. I was just saying, from my past shows,
the ones I just did recently, we had to scratch classes.
You're not gonna get an--listen, you're not gonna get an apology.
You're not gonna get an acknowledgment at all,
because what you said was, I believe it was your mom
who told you that you should not be going to the show on December 3rd, right?
- [Julia] I... - [Christina] I'm an avid...
- Right? - ... equestrian and I hate canceling
because of sickness, and I was trying so hard to make it.
And she took one look at me and she's like...
[Judge Levy] Well, let me ask you this, again...
- [Christina] ... "What are you doing?" - [Judge Levy] Again--and before--
and before I stop, you say you were so sick, right?
- Yeah. - [Judge Levy] And you've said no less
- than 20 times how sick you were... - [Christina] Yeah.
... you know that that was the gravamen of this case,
and the easiest thing for you to have done, as was indicated by my colleagues,
was to simply come in with some type of proof, anything.
You say that you can't breathe,
that you have fluid in your lungs,
it was almost as though you needed to be in the emergency room.
And your daughter as well.
That is inconsistent, Mom.
Inconsistent with the doctor's note
- that was provided from your... - [Christina] That's all she would write.
- That's all she would write. - [Judge Levy] It's not that all
- that she would write down. - She didn't wanna get involved.
She's like, "I have--that's all I can do."
[Judge Levy] Understand something. It's not that she wouldn't write you more.
She wrote us plenty.
What she said was there were no restrictions for your daughter,
notwithstanding her not being able to breathe,
notwithstanding the respiratory problems,
notwithstanding anything that could have ended her up in a bubble
with oxygen in a hospital like you want us to believe
which would support your claim
that was a good reason that you canceled at the last minute.
Your doctor, her pediatrician says no restrictions.
What about physical education? What about actually running around?
- What about a 1,600-pound horse... - Hold on. Hold on.
Her doctor, pediatrician, says nothing, no restrictions on physical activity.
Does that seem like it's less likely that she was as sick
as you say she is or more likely?
She was out of school the whole week and like I said, I should've said...
All I'm looking at is what the proof...
- [Christina] I know. And that was... - Listen.
[Christina] ... after the show the doctor wrote that.
All I'm looking at is what the proof is.
Medication required. I got three kids.
They were like little germ factories.
They get it at school, they come home, they give it to you.
I know exactly how it works. You know what we had all over the place?
- Medication. - But she's not like that.
- [Judge Levy] Medication. - She's homeopathic.
They don't do all of that. Unfortunately.
[Judge Levy] Let me explain something to you. Let me explain something to you.
I don't care.
I don't care, because the only evidence that your daughter brought in
that supported her claim that she was justified
in not paying the money was a doctor's note for her daughter.
It has nothing to do with what type of doctor she sees.
This is the proof, ma'am, that your daughter brought in.
And in this proof, it says, "Did your daughter have to take any medication?"
And the pediatrician said no.
Nothing.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
[Judge DiMango] You've made a point several times
about how you can't afford insurance.
How do you afford horses?
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[theme music plays]
[announcer] Horse event organizer Carole Bennett is suing Christina Ciaccio
for an unpaid $290 horse competition entry fee.
Carole claims Christina canceled at the last minute,
but Christina says she was sick
and is now countersuing for a $293 balance owed on a saddle.
This is the proof, ma'am, that your daughter brought in.
And in this proof, it says, "Did your daughter have to take any medication?"
And the pediatrician said no.
Nothing.
That most certainly doesn't sound like, to me,
that the child was nearly as sick as the two of you want us to believe.
- I was the one that was... - And here's what happens,
when you lie about one thing,
then it makes me wonder what else you're lying about.
- No, I'm not a liar. This is... - Can I be called upon?
Because I feel like I was brought here and...
- [Judge Levy] Yeah, absolutely. - And I have not been able to say
- one word and, you know, I... - I sure--I sure do.
I believe all this is all out of context
because I offered to pay for the horse show, okay?
She said she wanted to go to this horse show and I said,
"You should not be going with Carole." They don't get along.
I've already had my run-ins with her and I'm a very responsible woman.
I was on a plane to San Francisco,
she knew that, my contractor was supposed to go there,
he couldn't make it, I told her, she blew up, okay?
And I was shaking, that's over with.
But when I found out-- I went to another horse show
with my other two granddaughters and she was very rude
to my 11-year-old granddaughter and I saw that right away,
and I'm like, "This isn't well."
I'm an equestrian, I show all over the country.
I've been to all the horse shows.
I've scratched classes 20 minutes prior.
I came down with hay fever, throwing up, diarrhea, whatever.
And you know what? They let you go.
I was just at a horse show last week and they let you go because...
- [Judge Levy] That's not her policy. - It doesn't matter.
We're happy to pay this woman.
That's what--no one's understanding.
But then, why didn't you?
The reason why--we're happy to pay for it,
but the problem they had is their communication.
I don't know what happened. I'm not in the middle.
But I am this.
I am the grandma, my granddaughter was very sick.
I didn't want her riding a 1,200-pound animal who is basically green,
is not trained in their size.
My daughter was supposed to ride this horse.
She couldn't get up at 5:00 a.m. to get the horse to the trailer.
Granted, yes, maybe their communication is completely off.
Obviously, we all see that.
But don't tell me I'm a liar.
- I'm not a part of this. All I am is... - [Judge Levy] I didn't say--first--ma'am,
let me explain something.
You came in to support your daughter's case.
You knew that your daughter was coming in with absolutely no evidence, zero.
[Julia] They don't go to the doctors.
- [Judge Levy] Okay. - Okay?
- [Judge Levy] I got it. - She doesn't have health insurance.
I can't--but all I know is, my granddaughter was very sick.
I told her she has to get her to the doctor. She was very sick.
Stop saying your granddaughter was very sick.
You could say it a thousand times, it's not...
- [Julia] I can't take her to the doctor. - It is not going to change
what the pediatrician said.
Nothing was wrong with her.
Nothing, zero.
So you could say it 10,000 times, it still doesn't make a difference.
I have nothing further.
I think Judge Levy was right to point out
that there is such an emotional undercurrent here
that this case is about way more than the 290 and the 293.
But I wanna get my head around the bases for those claims for relief.
Now, you are suing her for $290 because you say that's the amount
that she owes you for the class and that includes office fees.
In your text messages, Ms. Ciaccio,
you indicated that you were willing to pay the $90 office fee...
- I did pay it. - [Judge Acker] ... but you continued
to dispute your liability for the $200 because you didn't show up.
- [Christina] Yes. - And you paid that $90?
- [Christina] We paid the 90. - Did you receive the $90?
I just got it yesterday and I didn't cash it.
- [Christina] I sent a Certified Mail. - [Judge Acker] Okay.
So then--so we're amending your request for relief to $200...
- Fine. - ... from the 290.
With respect to the $293
that you claim she owes you for the saddle.
Now your accounting firm's, uh, spreadsheet indicated
that the sales tax was only $93
and that she paid you $1,200.
Um, the checks added up to a thousand, Your Honor.
[Judge Acker] The check-- the checks added up to a thousand,
but the issue that I have with that interpretation
because I can do the math, it says $293.
But then the text exchanges between the two of you,
you were asking her for the tax.
You weren't asking her for $293.
- [Christina] So, um... - [Judge Acker] You were saying,
- "You owe me another $93." - [Christina] Correct.
So the fact that you're missing it doesn't mean she didn't pay it.
[Carole] That's for sure.
[Christina] Right. We don't have it, though.
It wasn't cashed, um, so I--
Maybe Carole can look at her own texts.
I don't know if Carole left it [indistinct] working--
- I don't care. - [Judge Acker] No, no, no, hold on.
- Hold on, everybody. - Sorry.
I think that I'm going to be finished here
and let all of you do some meditation.
- I don't blame you. - [Judge DiMango] I have a question.
Because you've made a point several times
about how you can't afford insurance, right?
Yeah. Um, I wasn't making enough at my own store
and it's been really hard...
How do you afford horses?
You have horses.
- You have saddles, you have rides... - Good point. Good point.
... you have dressage, you have races...
- [Christina] My mom would help me. - [Judge DiMango] ... you have feeding.
[Christina] And I have health insurance now.
Um, I had a few tight months with, um, the store and not doing very well.
Do you--and during that time, Mom,
I mean, because you really are a hands-on mother and...
There's a time we have to let the kids grow up
- and let them do their thing. - [Judge DiMango] But insurance?
I've supported her her whole life.
You shouldn't have bought her a saddle.
You should've given her the insurance money.
[Julia] I didn't buy her a saddle.
But the thing is, is I have to step back as a mom.
I can't tell her what to do with her horses and her kids.
That's not my place, and I have four grandkids.
There's a time where I have to step back...
- I fully support myself... - [Judge DiMango] I get your point
that there's a time when you've got to step back.
[Julia] I don't have a choice.
[Judge DiMango] But my question to you also is
you didn't want your granddaughter riding a green horse as you said it.
No, I did not want her riding at that show, she wasn't ready.
She could've done dressage if she rode it.
But she couldn't, she was too sick.
And you don't even get on a pony if you're sick.
Because you can't mentally ride this horse
and do what you're supposed to be doing and articulate and be safe.
You have to be safe when you're on these horses.
- I've had plenty of accidents, okay? - [Judge DiMango] Okay.
So knowing that to be true, because the whole issue...
[Julia] But she should've obviously given her more notice, okay?
I wasn't involved in all that, okay?
She should've given her more notice and we're happy to pay for it.
We're fine.
We don't need this aggravation. But I don't like her attacking or...
[Judge DiMango] When we will walk out of here, we could say,
okay, the two of you, in tandem,
agreed to pay $290.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
I never said I wouldn't pay her.
I mean, you said throughout everything you weren't gonna pay.
Why do you keep doing that?
You didn't wanna pay it.
- Why don't you just say it? - [Christina] Because she--okay.
Just stop.
And I'm just here for support.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Horse event organizer Carole Bennett is suing Christina Ciaccio
for an unpaid entry fee
after Christina canceled the last minute.
But Christina claims she was too sick to ride
and is countersuing for a balance owed on a saddle
Carole bought from Christina's store.
When we walk out of here, we could say,
okay, the two of you, in tandem, agree to pay 290.
Absolutely. And I never-- sorry, 200 is what I would owe her.
200, because you paid the 90 that you have.
[Christina] I paid her the 90.
- I never said I would not... - I haven't cashed it. I just got it.
I mean, you said throughout everything you weren't gonna pay.
Why do you keep doing that?
You--the same thing you did with the insurance, you keep saying,
"I never said that." I could read you 10 pages here.
- Here. Right here. - I'm sorry, I misspoke.
- I misspoke. I'm sorry. - I'm gonna take you to court.
- Plus... - [Julia] Stop.
I can't pay, every show ends like that, we'll call it even at $90.
You didn't wanna pay it!
- Why don't you just say it? - [Julia] Just stop.
- Just stop. - All right.
And I'm just here for support.
[Judge DiMango] You did very well.
When did you make that last payment?
There's a text message where you suggest to her
you owe her another hundred dollars.
- [Carole] Yeah, and I went [indistinct]. - And then she said,
"That would only be $1,200."
So clearly I know $1,100 was paid.
When did you make that, uh, hundred dollar payment?
[Carole] She told me--I don't-- I'd have to go back and look.
It was a while ago.
Because I said to her actually,
"I'll pay you the rest of the saddle when the house sells."
The house sold, and the next day I went over to her store.
I said, "Here's the hundred dollars."
And she said, "Great." I said, again, specifically,
"Are we clear? Are we done? Are we good?"
And she said yes.
So she's saying she paid the whole 1,200, you're saying she didn't.
Um, I think I'm good for now.
We're ready. We're gonna retire to deliberate.
Mom, you can take your seat again, if you'd like.
[Byrd] Court now stands in recess.
Parties are excused.
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The plaintiff's request for relief
amended now to $200 is super easy for me.
She says she was sick.
She hasn't really provided any evidence of being sick.
And frankly, even if she had,
I think in this circumstance, it's immaterial.
I mean, unless she had leprosy or some wildly contagious thing,
you cannot run a business if people can say,
"Oh, I'm gonna hold a spot but then not pay for the spot
and then not show up because I don't feel well."
So I think the plaintiff is easily entitled to that $200.
As to the defendant's request for $293.
Now she showed us her accountant spreadsheet.
That spreadsheet suggests that only a thousand dollars was paid.
But in the earlier contemporaneous text messages,
the defendant acknowledges receiving $1,100.
The plaintiff says that she paid her the full $1,200.
I'm just gonna throw this out there as between the two of them,
the plaintiff may be kind of excitable but I also found her credible.
So I'm entitled to credit her for that $1,200 payment,
that she owes the defendant $93 in sales tax,
the defendant owes the plaintiff $200.
We do the math and that's how I would do the judgment.
Hundred percent my judgment of this as well.
First of all, I think she put off paying because there's a lot going on here.
And there was this back and forth.
I almost think that the not showing up, maybe if they didn't have this bad blood,
she might've made a better effort to show up
or at least put her daughter in the show,
but they decided with the mother's help not to do that.
And I bet you if she would've paid in advance, she would've shown.
That's what I really believe.
So the only thing left is the $93
which really was the plaintiff's complaint all along.
- I shouldn't've had to pay tax. - [Judge Acker] Right.
But the reality is, she does have to pay the tax, so it's $93...
- Everybody's gotta pay the rabbi. - Total...
- [laughter] - Everybody's gotta pay the rabbi.
- Total here $107 to the plaintiff. - To the plaintiff.
[Judge Levy] I agree.
The aggravation, the agita,
that all three of them felt
for the last nine months was not worth $107.
And I think that if they just would've taken a step back
and said, "Okay, let's try to resolve it amicably"
and someone else could've helped them along.
But if they couldn't, you come here, we'll do it for you.
At this point, you should be our group guru.
- Yeah. - I was gonna say,
my advice would be don't settle it, fight it out to the last minute.
- File in small claims court. - And come here.
And we'll be picking it up.
That's my advice to them.
[laughs] We're unanimous.
- Way to go. - Trust me.
- Always thinking of the best. - [laughter]
[dramatic musical sting]
[Byrd] Court is back in session.
I'll remind parties, you're still under oath.
[Judge Acker] Thank you, Byrd.
So Ms. Bennett, you indicated
that you wanted to say something before I render the verdict.
And you said it was going to be nice.
[Carole] It is nice.
I want you to know that even after the altercation
with working for the mom,
Christina and her daughter were always invited to do the next show.
I would never penalize a junior
that wants to show or her mother.
Because that's separate.
This is a community
and we support each other in the equine world.
And there was no way I was gonna punish them
because she and I had an altercation.
And I think that's a very noble thing to do
because it does bear noting that after all of this drama
around the store and the hours,
- you still signed up for the show. - [Christina] Yes.
[Judge Acker] And I've never ridden dressage.
I've ridden a little bit, and it's so relaxing.
I feel like you all just need to, like.
get on a horse and then go have a glass of wine,
and then just let it all, like, wash off.
So do that afterwards, but first with respect to your case in chief, ma'am,
you amended your complaint
because you acknowledged receiving the $90 from the defendant.
And so you're therefore suing her for $200 for the balance of the class.
We think she owes you all of that.
Whether or not you were sick,
somebody else couldn't get that space because she held it for you.
It just isn't right. So we're gonna make you pay the balance of that $200.
With respect to what she owes you for the saddle,
now it seems there is some discrepancy
because your accounting statement indicates
that she only paid a thousand dollars.
However, when we look at the contemporaneous text messages,
it's clear she paid you more than that.
And the dispute was really only over that $93 in tax, which you owe.
- You gotta pay the sales tax. - No problem.
[Judge Acker] So when we do the math, judgment is in your favor for $200.
Judgment is in your favor for $93.
- There's an offset there. - Uh-hmm.
So the ultimate judgment in this court,
and it is a unanimous verdict,
is for $107 in favor of the plaintiff.
- That's our verdict. - [gavel bangs]
[Carole] Thank you.
[Byrd] This case is now concluded. Parties are excused.
You may step out.
[theme music plays]
I don't know why she was so angry and abusive about this whole thing.
Would you be down here in LA for $290
if it weren't about principle?
That's all it is.
My granddaughter was very sick, she was very sick,
and I'm the one that told them, "Don't go to the horse show."
But don't let her fool you
that her daughter is some shrinking violet on a pony.
I've seen her ride.
We will [indistinct] in more of the rated shows
where the management are actually can be held accountable
- for how they treat people. - Yeah.
We're almost done. We're moving to South Carolina anyway.
[announcer] Are you being sued?
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["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]