1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,500 You hired the defendant's cleaning company. 2 00:00:08,567 --> 00:00:10,934 - The job was terrible. - Correct. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,333 And that looks like caked on dirt. 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,600 - Look at the dirt on this. - [Judge Levy] No way that was mopped. 5 00:00:15,900 --> 00:00:17,233 Cigarette butts on the floor. 6 00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:18,433 [Judge Levy] The garbage that was left. 7 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:20,100 But there are also dead bugs underneath there. 8 00:00:20,166 --> 00:00:21,500 He told me that they were doing a great job. 9 00:00:22,667 --> 00:00:24,133 That's preposterous. 10 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,233 [announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice. 11 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:30,667 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 12 00:00:48,367 --> 00:00:52,100 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Minneapolis, Minnesota. 13 00:00:52,166 --> 00:00:54,400 [Cassandra] Your Honor, this is case number 2024, 14 00:00:54,467 --> 00:00:55,967 Friends versus Hutchins. 15 00:00:56,033 --> 00:00:57,166 All parties have been sworn in. 16 00:00:57,233 --> 00:00:58,233 Thank you, Cassandra. 17 00:00:58,300 --> 00:00:59,400 You may now be seated. 18 00:01:00,233 --> 00:01:02,600 [Judge Levy] All right. Mr. Friends, I read your complaint. 19 00:01:02,667 --> 00:01:05,066 You hired the defendant's cleaning company 20 00:01:05,132 --> 00:01:07,867 to deep clean one of your rental houses, right? 21 00:01:07,934 --> 00:01:09,000 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] You claim 22 00:01:09,066 --> 00:01:10,800 that the job was terrible, 23 00:01:10,867 --> 00:01:14,333 that the defendant failed to substantially perform 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:15,734 under your contract, 25 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,800 and you're suing for a full refund of $406.13. 26 00:01:19,867 --> 00:01:22,133 - Yes, that's correct. - [Judge Levy] Okay. And Ms. Hutchins, 27 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,533 you say that your cleaners went above and beyond 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,934 what should be expected of that type of a job, 29 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,133 you owe him nothing, 30 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,834 and your efforts to make it right afterwards, 31 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:34,700 after he complained, he told you not to come, 32 00:01:34,767 --> 00:01:37,633 he didn't want you or your cleaners back in his home, correct? 33 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:38,834 Basically, yes. 34 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:40,265 [Judge Levy] All right. So Mr. Friends, 35 00:01:40,333 --> 00:01:42,233 tell us how you two know each other. How'd you meet? 36 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:44,133 Um, I believe we both worked 37 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,467 at a, uh, bar in downtown Minneapolis 38 00:01:47,533 --> 00:01:50,333 as a server and I was a, uh, security guard at the time. 39 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,900 Been friends on Facebook for, you know, five-plus years. 40 00:01:53,967 --> 00:01:56,500 [Judge Levy] So you say that you guys met working at a restaurant? 41 00:01:56,567 --> 00:01:58,100 Yeah, well, he was a regular at the time 42 00:01:58,166 --> 00:02:02,066 when I--when we first met, he was coming in as like, uh, a customer. 43 00:02:02,133 --> 00:02:04,333 - Then he did eventually work there, yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 44 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,133 There came a time though that you asked the defendant 45 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,333 to clean an apartment that you were getting ready to rent? 46 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,633 Yes, I have, uh-- I have two real estate companies 47 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:16,567 and I also have personal real estate as well. 48 00:02:16,633 --> 00:02:17,900 And how long you've been doing that? 49 00:02:17,966 --> 00:02:19,800 I started in about 2018. 50 00:02:19,867 --> 00:02:23,667 And Ms. Hutchins, uh, so you went from server in the restaurant 51 00:02:23,734 --> 00:02:25,767 - to owning a cleaning business? - [Cheyenne] Yup. 52 00:02:25,834 --> 00:02:27,667 So I'm also a leasing consultant. 53 00:02:27,734 --> 00:02:31,433 Um, my boyfriend and I actually started Great Lake Maids together, uh, a couple... 54 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:32,567 - Great Lake Maids? - [Cheyenne] Yup. 55 00:02:32,633 --> 00:02:33,834 - Great Lake Maids. - Okay. 56 00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:36,767 Um, so we subcontract cleaning crews for residential cleaning. 57 00:02:36,834 --> 00:02:40,333 About late June, early July is when we first started 58 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,633 free marketing on Facebook, which is where he found me. 59 00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:46,266 So what was it then, Mr. Friends, that you said to the defendant 60 00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:49,567 to get this ball rolling with respect to hiring her company? 61 00:02:49,633 --> 00:02:52,266 Um, I believe I put out some feelers 62 00:02:52,333 --> 00:02:54,900 on, uh, social media to find some cleaning services. 63 00:02:54,966 --> 00:02:57,900 My business partner said, "Well, try out Cheyenne's service. 64 00:02:57,966 --> 00:02:59,633 She's always posting about her business." 65 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:02,266 So I followed up with a message to her, 66 00:03:02,333 --> 00:03:05,233 um, and we started service there for the first time. 67 00:03:05,300 --> 00:03:09,133 Um, that service wasn't up to the level that I had wanted 68 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,667 and we did our best to come to a solution. 69 00:03:10,734 --> 00:03:11,734 [Judge Levy] Hold on one second. 70 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,767 I know that there was a prior instance where you had hired her crew. 71 00:03:14,834 --> 00:03:16,867 And I'm gonna ask you the following about the first home. 72 00:03:16,934 --> 00:03:18,333 - [Cheyenne] Yeah. - Was it a disaster? 73 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:19,400 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 74 00:03:19,466 --> 00:03:22,433 They--my cleaning crew had to get rid of all of their cleaning supplies. 75 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:23,966 - It was very bad, yeah. - [Judge Levy] The first one? 76 00:03:24,033 --> 00:03:25,066 - A disaster? - [Cheyenne] Yeah. 77 00:03:25,133 --> 00:03:26,834 I mean, more work than you thought 78 00:03:26,900 --> 00:03:29,600 when you first initially quoted him a price? 79 00:03:29,667 --> 00:03:31,800 Yeah. Both times, my cleaning crews messaged me, 80 00:03:31,867 --> 00:03:33,333 like, "This is really bad." 81 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,066 - Okay. So we can agree... - Like, there was a huge presence 82 00:03:35,133 --> 00:03:37,633 - of cat urine... - ... no question that that first one 83 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:40,900 that you stuck her with, horrible, right? 84 00:03:40,966 --> 00:03:42,800 For the record, yeah. It was disgusting. 85 00:03:42,867 --> 00:03:45,200 [Judge Levy] So in the text now regarding the second one, 86 00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:47,966 he contacted you, told you what he was looking for, 87 00:03:48,033 --> 00:03:49,667 and you gave him a price. 88 00:03:49,734 --> 00:03:50,734 Yeah. 89 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,500 [Judge Levy] How did you quote him that price? 90 00:03:52,567 --> 00:03:55,066 Did you actually go and inspect the home 91 00:03:55,133 --> 00:03:57,233 or did you take his representations? 92 00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:00,734 So, um, I use, um, a scheduling system called Modern Maid IO, 93 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,367 which basically, it takes the square footage of the home, 94 00:04:03,433 --> 00:04:05,066 the amount of bedrooms, the amount of bathrooms, 95 00:04:05,133 --> 00:04:08,066 and I ask a couple of questions just to kind of figure out, 96 00:04:08,133 --> 00:04:11,900 like, are you gonna need a deeper clean in specific areas of the home? 97 00:04:11,967 --> 00:04:15,100 Um, that's where the lack of communication, I think, came in. 98 00:04:15,166 --> 00:04:16,966 There was cat urine in the-- 99 00:04:17,033 --> 00:04:18,966 he did let me know that the people had smoked in the house, 100 00:04:19,033 --> 00:04:20,867 but the level of residue left on the walls, 101 00:04:20,934 --> 00:04:23,200 that alone my cleaners had to spent two hours on, 102 00:04:23,266 --> 00:04:26,100 so I could've charged him more, honestly, so... 103 00:04:26,166 --> 00:04:29,500 Okay. Why don't tell us then, Mr. Friends, what it is that you told her? 104 00:04:29,567 --> 00:04:30,700 I know you guys sent us texts. 105 00:04:30,767 --> 00:04:33,467 You indicated that your tenants had just moved out, 106 00:04:33,533 --> 00:04:36,933 that there were pets previously in the apartment, 107 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,834 they were smokers, and it needs to be cleaned top to bottom. 108 00:04:40,900 --> 00:04:42,933 - Yes, that's correct. - [Judge Levy] And you received that text? 109 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,767 Yes. And I will say, too, because I know Jeff 110 00:04:45,834 --> 00:04:49,200 and I appreciated him supporting my business as it is very new. 111 00:04:49,266 --> 00:04:51,800 - I gave him a discount off the bat, so... - [Judge Levy] Okay. 112 00:04:51,867 --> 00:04:54,567 Going forward, after giving a description of the house, 113 00:04:54,633 --> 00:04:57,633 you then sent photos in those text messages, correct? 114 00:04:57,700 --> 00:05:00,400 - Yes, I sent about nine, I think. - For the second home. 115 00:05:00,467 --> 00:05:01,533 - [Judge Levy] For the second? - Yeah. Yup. 116 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,100 We have you saying to the defendant, "Tenants moved out." 117 00:05:04,166 --> 00:05:06,133 You sent photos and then you said, 118 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,967 - "It's just like the last one." - Yes. 119 00:05:10,033 --> 00:05:13,300 So you knew that when you were bidding out this job, 120 00:05:13,367 --> 00:05:15,767 that this now, the one we're talking about, the second one, 121 00:05:15,834 --> 00:05:19,233 was just like that nasty first one. 122 00:05:19,300 --> 00:05:20,700 - Fair? - Yeah. Fair. 123 00:05:20,767 --> 00:05:23,800 Okay. And then there was another text in which you said, 124 00:05:23,867 --> 00:05:26,867 "Make sure they clean the windows and the window trim." 125 00:05:26,934 --> 00:05:28,633 And when you sent that text, 126 00:05:28,700 --> 00:05:31,633 can you tell us what the reasons were that you sent that? 127 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:34,066 [Jeffrey] I believe that was when I had come in at midday, 128 00:05:34,133 --> 00:05:37,300 being that this was the second time working with the defendant. 129 00:05:37,367 --> 00:05:39,033 Um, I walked through quickly, 130 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:40,933 said hi, smiled. 131 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,166 Um, and there were some areas that I had already been concerned about. 132 00:05:44,233 --> 00:05:47,667 And that's why I wanted to specify that these areas needed to be cleaned. 133 00:05:47,734 --> 00:05:50,834 I was just trying to present it in the nicest manner as possible to say, 134 00:05:50,900 --> 00:05:51,900 "Make sure." 135 00:05:51,967 --> 00:05:53,633 [Judge Levy] Got it. And that's the way you took it? 136 00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:55,667 Yeah. He told me that they were doing a great job. 137 00:05:55,734 --> 00:05:59,166 He was--he was pleased with everything and also my cleaners, 138 00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:02,333 I re-sent her the deep cleaning checklist, which she already had, 139 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,734 and I said, "Can you make sure you've everything on this list?" 140 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,033 She said, "Yes, we did a deep cleaning, everything was done." 141 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:11,033 He came in to check and said everything was good. 142 00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:13,000 But you're not suggesting that he was there 143 00:06:13,066 --> 00:06:15,934 when they had completely finished and told you they did a great job? 144 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,400 He said they were doing a great job. 145 00:06:17,467 --> 00:06:18,467 - Yeah. The... - [Judge Levy] Don't forget... 146 00:06:18,533 --> 00:06:20,367 He said everything looked good. Yup, make sure you do this. 147 00:06:20,433 --> 00:06:21,467 [Judge Levy] Right. And then he said, 148 00:06:21,533 --> 00:06:24,300 "As long as all the nooks and crannies are taken care of, 149 00:06:24,367 --> 00:06:25,567 I will be happy." 150 00:06:25,633 --> 00:06:27,834 You know why he references nooks and crannies, right? 151 00:06:29,533 --> 00:06:31,934 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 152 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,367 Does the deep clean involve moving heavy objects? 153 00:06:35,433 --> 00:06:38,033 Based on the definition of "every crook and nanny" that would then include... 154 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:39,600 - No, every crook... - Every nanny and... 155 00:06:39,667 --> 00:06:41,367 - [Judge Acker] Every... - Oh, no. 156 00:06:41,433 --> 00:06:43,066 - Not on TV. - Every nook and cranny. 157 00:06:43,133 --> 00:06:44,433 - [laughter] - [dramatic musical sting] 158 00:06:46,332 --> 00:06:48,066 [theme music plays] 159 00:06:48,133 --> 00:06:50,033 [announcer] Property manager Jeffrey Friends 160 00:06:50,100 --> 00:06:53,133 is suing cleaning service owner Cheyenne Hutchins, 161 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,767 claiming her deep clean services were actually pretty shallow. 162 00:06:57,834 --> 00:07:01,533 But Cheyenne claims her cleaners scoured every nook and cranny. 163 00:07:02,166 --> 00:07:05,600 He said, "As long as all the nooks and crannies are taken of, 164 00:07:05,667 --> 00:07:06,867 I will be happy." 165 00:07:06,934 --> 00:07:09,133 You know why he references nooks and crannies, right? 166 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,900 From our deep cleaning list? Yeah. 167 00:07:10,967 --> 00:07:12,233 [Judge Levy] Yes. Go ahead. 168 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:15,000 [Jeffrey] So the evidence from her, um, list 169 00:07:15,066 --> 00:07:16,767 of what the deep clean entails, 170 00:07:16,834 --> 00:07:18,934 that the last one pointed out in capitals. 171 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,233 Read it, please? 172 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:22,667 [Jeffrey] "Every nook and cranny of the house." 173 00:07:22,734 --> 00:07:24,300 [Judge Levy] So you have a standard clean, 174 00:07:24,367 --> 00:07:27,133 and then above the standard clean is the deep clean. 175 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,567 - [Cheyenne] Yes. - And the deep clean 176 00:07:28,633 --> 00:07:31,967 is every nook and cranny in the house, right? 177 00:07:32,033 --> 00:07:33,033 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 178 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:35,233 And we have a video describing the services 179 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:36,367 of your business that you provided. 180 00:07:36,433 --> 00:07:37,433 I think it's useful and helpful. 181 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:38,867 - [Cheyenne] Sure. - Thank you. 182 00:07:39,433 --> 00:07:41,000 With the standard cleaning, we're gonna be looking 183 00:07:41,066 --> 00:07:43,200 at the outside of appliances. 184 00:07:43,266 --> 00:07:46,200 We'll clean and sanitize the outside of appliances and cabinets. 185 00:07:46,266 --> 00:07:47,367 We'll clean your sink. 186 00:07:47,433 --> 00:07:50,767 We're gonna sweep and mop and vacuum and tidy up. 187 00:07:50,834 --> 00:07:52,800 Basically with the deep cleaning, we're gonna be doing 188 00:07:52,867 --> 00:07:56,100 the inside of your refrigerator. 189 00:07:56,166 --> 00:07:58,332 We're gonna do the inside of the stove. 190 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,734 We're gonna do the inside of the microwave. 191 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:02,767 We're gonna clean the toilet. 192 00:08:02,834 --> 00:08:07,033 Uh, we're gonna pay more attention to the baseboards, to doorknobs. 193 00:08:07,100 --> 00:08:11,633 We'll do dusting and wiping down of walls and ceiling fans, if applicable. 194 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:14,233 As far as wall cleaning goes, if there is more elbow grease 195 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:15,767 that has to be put into it, 196 00:08:15,834 --> 00:08:18,500 a deep cleaning is gonna be giving a little bit of extra love. 197 00:08:18,567 --> 00:08:19,834 [Judge Levy] So extra love. That's a deep cleaning? 198 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:22,300 - Yes. - Thank you. Judge Acker. 199 00:08:22,367 --> 00:08:24,367 - Do you do any of the cleaning yourself? - [Cheyenne] No, I don't. 200 00:08:24,433 --> 00:08:26,100 I subcontract crews, 201 00:08:26,166 --> 00:08:29,033 um, I look at basically their resume, 202 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:32,133 um, to see, you know, if they've done professional cleaning before. 203 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,467 [Judge Acker] It's never the same. 204 00:08:33,533 --> 00:08:36,200 If you're the owner, if you're the proprietor, 205 00:08:36,265 --> 00:08:38,400 - you have to have your hands in it. - Yeah. 206 00:08:38,467 --> 00:08:40,533 [Judge Acker] Let's put up exhibit number five. 207 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,933 Mr. Friends, you submitted this photograph. 208 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,066 Tell us what we're looking at. 209 00:08:45,133 --> 00:08:48,200 [Jeffrey] Um, this was after I moved the refrigerator to the side, 210 00:08:48,266 --> 00:08:50,266 and just ran a broom across. 211 00:08:50,333 --> 00:08:52,233 [Judge Acker] But you had to move the refrigerator? 212 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:54,165 - [Jeffrey] Yes, I did. - Does the deep clean 213 00:08:54,233 --> 00:08:56,233 involve moving heavy objects? 214 00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:58,433 Based on the definition of "every crook and nanny" 215 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,934 - that would then include... - No, every crook--no, every nanny... 216 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,300 - Every nanny and... - [Judge Acker] Every... 217 00:09:02,367 --> 00:09:03,367 Oh, no. 218 00:09:03,967 --> 00:09:05,300 - Not on TV. - Every nook and cranny. 219 00:09:05,367 --> 00:09:07,734 Just a bad cleaning job, no crooks. 220 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,000 - Yeah. - [Judge Acker] No crooks. 221 00:09:09,066 --> 00:09:11,000 When you go into these properties, 222 00:09:11,066 --> 00:09:13,934 or rather when your crews go into these properties, 223 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,500 do they move furniture? 224 00:09:15,567 --> 00:09:16,567 [Cheyenne] Not unless asked. 225 00:09:16,633 --> 00:09:18,667 I have had a couple of people who have asked, 226 00:09:18,734 --> 00:09:21,233 "Hey, can you please make sure to move the refrigerator 227 00:09:21,300 --> 00:09:22,800 or move the couch or you can move that desk." 228 00:09:22,867 --> 00:09:24,367 Because the refrigerator is a pretty big thing. 229 00:09:24,433 --> 00:09:25,667 - When I look at that... - [Cheyenne] Yes, exactly. 230 00:09:25,734 --> 00:09:28,033 Especially when it's smaller women doing the cleaning job, 231 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:29,633 that's why we do ask, you know, 232 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:31,500 like, "Are there specific things that need to be done?" 233 00:09:31,567 --> 00:09:33,500 Because typically, like, if you have like a maid service, 234 00:09:33,567 --> 00:09:35,400 they're not going in there moving your oven and your stove 235 00:09:35,467 --> 00:09:37,800 - when they go to clean your home. - Right, I have a lovely housekeeper, 236 00:09:37,867 --> 00:09:39,567 she hasn't moved the refrigerator every day. 237 00:09:39,633 --> 00:09:41,467 - But, but... - Right and--but if he asked to do that, 238 00:09:41,533 --> 00:09:43,165 absolutely, we would've made sure it was done. 239 00:09:43,233 --> 00:09:45,567 But you move a refrigerator when you're doing a deep cleaning. 240 00:09:45,633 --> 00:09:46,734 Maybe, maybe. 241 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,367 But let's look at some of the other exhibits. 242 00:09:48,433 --> 00:09:50,600 Can we look at exhibit seven, please? 243 00:09:50,667 --> 00:09:54,066 Now where did you find these cigarette butts, sir? 244 00:09:54,133 --> 00:09:56,066 Um, I found those in the back bedroom. 245 00:09:56,133 --> 00:09:58,767 I believe it was pulled out just inches from-- 246 00:09:58,834 --> 00:10:02,066 that's a heat baseboard that sits an inch or two off the ground. 247 00:10:02,133 --> 00:10:05,633 But if anybody had run a broom alongside of that, or vacuum cleaner, 248 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:08,433 those two cigarettes would've been vacuumed up 249 00:10:08,500 --> 00:10:10,000 or put into a dustpan. 250 00:10:10,066 --> 00:10:11,133 That's pretty preposterous. 251 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,834 You have to admit, right? 252 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:14,667 Absolutely. And I would be upset as well. 253 00:10:14,734 --> 00:10:17,767 Um, I believe when he told me where he found it, it was underneath a heater. 254 00:10:17,834 --> 00:10:19,500 - and it was--but it's something that... - They have to sweep though. 255 00:10:19,567 --> 00:10:22,467 ... like I would--I've learned now that I need to go and do my own walkthroughs 256 00:10:22,533 --> 00:10:25,400 in which case when--in homes where the people specifically tell me 257 00:10:25,467 --> 00:10:26,700 it's a disgusting house 258 00:10:26,767 --> 00:10:28,500 and I don't wanna like make excuses, 259 00:10:28,567 --> 00:10:32,033 but the two and a half hours they spent scrubbing cigarette residue off the walls, 260 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:33,734 you know, I think could have played a part 261 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,834 and maybe them lacking where they should have done a better job. 262 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:39,066 When you hire these subcontractors, 263 00:10:39,133 --> 00:10:42,667 do you pay them by the hour or do you simply give them a flat fee? 264 00:10:42,734 --> 00:10:45,133 - I give them a flat fee, a percentage. - [Judge Acker] Huge mistake. 265 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,600 If you were sending out other hands to clean somebody's property, 266 00:10:48,667 --> 00:10:51,233 and you say to them, "You know, what? Clean for two hours." 267 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:52,467 They'll clean for two hours. 268 00:10:52,533 --> 00:10:55,533 Yup. And that's a huge thing that we have talked about as well, 269 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,000 um, and again because I know Jeff. 270 00:10:57,066 --> 00:10:58,600 I didn't want to charge him more. 271 00:10:58,667 --> 00:11:00,133 And that's why I did ask him but he was on... 272 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,200 And let's look at this, ma'am. 273 00:11:01,266 --> 00:11:03,800 Looking at what seems to be a window 274 00:11:03,867 --> 00:11:06,233 and that looks like caked on dirt. 275 00:11:06,300 --> 00:11:08,400 That's filthy. I wouldn't wanna touch that window. 276 00:11:08,467 --> 00:11:10,500 I wouldn't touch it. I'd put on gloves. 277 00:11:10,567 --> 00:11:12,834 Yeah. Again, a huge point of me having to do the walkthrough 278 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:14,400 because the pictures I was sent by my cleaners, 279 00:11:14,467 --> 00:11:15,467 it didn't look like that, so... 280 00:11:15,533 --> 00:11:17,533 Of course not, because your cleaners wanna show that, 281 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,767 "Hey, we did the whole thing." But they didn't. 282 00:11:19,834 --> 00:11:21,734 And since you are the proprietor, 283 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,033 your business, your name, your reputation on the line, 284 00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:26,967 just be a little reasonable. 285 00:11:27,033 --> 00:11:29,734 Well, the one thing is we--I offered for them to go back 286 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:31,300 and, you know, fix the mistakes. 287 00:11:31,367 --> 00:11:34,800 It wasn't within his timeframe which is why when he was on-- 288 00:11:34,867 --> 00:11:37,033 when he asked me to do the cleaning, I specifically said 289 00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:38,834 I wanna do it sooner than later 290 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:41,200 because knowing next time I'll trust my gut 291 00:11:41,266 --> 00:11:42,600 and not work with someone again 292 00:11:42,667 --> 00:11:45,734 who is, you know, a particular type of way. 293 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,667 [Judge Acker] Oh, wait a minute. I got to interrupt you. 294 00:11:47,734 --> 00:11:51,000 Because where I hear you going is from a place of, "Yeah. You know what? 295 00:11:51,066 --> 00:11:52,867 I made a mistake. I should have done it better." 296 00:11:52,934 --> 00:11:54,867 To, "Oh, my God. He's so particular. 297 00:11:54,934 --> 00:11:57,533 How dare he not want cigarette butts on the floor? 298 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,767 How dare he not want an absolutely filthy window 299 00:12:00,834 --> 00:12:03,700 that any sane sanitary person 300 00:12:03,767 --> 00:12:05,467 would not wanna touch without gloves?" 301 00:12:05,533 --> 00:12:07,800 That's why you hire a house cleaning service. 302 00:12:07,867 --> 00:12:09,166 - No, absolutely. - [Judge Acker] He's not wrong 303 00:12:09,233 --> 00:12:10,934 for wanting a clean house 304 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,800 when he pays for a clean house. 305 00:12:12,867 --> 00:12:13,867 - [Judge DiMango] Yeah. - [Judge Acker] Judge DiMango? 306 00:12:13,934 --> 00:12:16,800 It's funny when I first read it, I said, "Well, maybe he's very picayune, 307 00:12:16,867 --> 00:12:19,133 maybe he has unreasonable expectations." 308 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,767 And then I looked at the photographs, 309 00:12:21,834 --> 00:12:25,300 I did see the same photograph here. 310 00:12:26,633 --> 00:12:29,800 This mess on the windowsill here. 311 00:12:30,967 --> 00:12:33,367 This additional set of dirt. 312 00:12:33,433 --> 00:12:35,834 You're right. This is crooks and nannies. 313 00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:37,600 You were being crooked. 314 00:12:38,066 --> 00:12:39,066 - Really. - [Cheyenne] Yeah. 315 00:12:39,133 --> 00:12:41,233 And I'd love--I wish I would've done the walkthrough myself 316 00:12:41,300 --> 00:12:43,967 because I find it really hard to believe with all of the great, 317 00:12:44,033 --> 00:12:45,834 - like, responses we get from people. - You have now experienced 318 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:47,400 the cost of doing business. 319 00:12:47,467 --> 00:12:49,433 I mean there's just dirt everywhere. 320 00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:52,633 So did you see these before you came to court? 321 00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:54,165 Yeah, I'd seen--I saw some of them. Definitely. 322 00:12:54,233 --> 00:12:56,233 [Judge DiMango] So when he said give me money back, 323 00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:57,967 you didn't wanna give him anything it seemed, correct? 324 00:12:58,033 --> 00:13:00,333 I just felt that it was a pattern. He did the same thing. 325 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:01,433 - He said that they did a... - [Judge DiMango] Well, it was twice. 326 00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:04,367 But you had a pattern as well, and that's not doing your job. 327 00:13:04,433 --> 00:13:06,667 Well, he said they did a great job the first two times. 328 00:13:06,734 --> 00:13:08,100 Like both times, they did a great job 329 00:13:08,166 --> 00:13:11,767 and they're--and obviously I told him even before he had seen it, 330 00:13:11,834 --> 00:13:13,200 I said, "If there's anything else you need, 331 00:13:13,266 --> 00:13:15,300 please let me know right away so we can fix this situation." 332 00:13:15,367 --> 00:13:18,567 I know that you are now saying it should have been better. 333 00:13:18,633 --> 00:13:19,633 - I got it. - [Cheyenne] Yeah, absolutely. 334 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:21,266 [Judge DiMango] And I think there were three options. 335 00:13:21,333 --> 00:13:22,333 I think you might have said it. 336 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,633 You can give me my money back, you can come in and fix it, 337 00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:26,200 - or I can never use you again. - [Cheyenne] Yeah. 338 00:13:26,266 --> 00:13:27,800 - So I think you want to go... - [Cheyenne] He told me 195 339 00:13:27,867 --> 00:13:30,934 would be something fair, and now he's asking for 406. 340 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,233 - I'm like... - [Judge DiMango] Well, now he is. 341 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:34,667 But he was asking for 50% before. 342 00:13:34,734 --> 00:13:38,066 But what he's actually saying to you is you didn't do your job. 343 00:13:38,133 --> 00:13:40,433 I recognize that you guys did something, 344 00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:42,767 but I don't think what you can say here 345 00:13:42,834 --> 00:13:45,000 is that this was a job worth paying for in full. 346 00:13:46,333 --> 00:13:48,967 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 347 00:13:49,033 --> 00:13:50,567 I feel like I'm like a young woman 348 00:13:50,633 --> 00:13:52,567 who just started her business and I don't wanna get like... 349 00:13:52,633 --> 00:13:54,200 Oh, please. Don't give me that kind of thing. 350 00:13:54,266 --> 00:13:55,900 It seems like he's been around the block a couple times 351 00:13:55,967 --> 00:13:57,133 when it comes to trying to sue people. 352 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,734 [Judge DiMango] Oh, my god. 353 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,166 [dramatic musical sting] 354 00:14:02,066 --> 00:14:03,333 [theme music plays] 355 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,967 [announcer] Jeffrey Friends hired cleaning company owner Cheyenne Hutchins 356 00:14:07,033 --> 00:14:08,800 to clean his rental property. 357 00:14:08,867 --> 00:14:11,266 He's suing Cheyenne for leaving dirt, dust, 358 00:14:11,333 --> 00:14:13,467 and cigarette butts everywhere. 359 00:14:13,533 --> 00:14:17,500 Cheyenne says Jeffrey lied about the level of cleaning required. 360 00:14:17,567 --> 00:14:18,567 He gave you a deadline. 361 00:14:18,633 --> 00:14:20,900 I think time was of the essence when you contracted with him. 362 00:14:20,967 --> 00:14:22,967 Which is the point I was trying to prove earlier, too, 363 00:14:23,266 --> 00:14:24,834 was that--that's why I wanted to schedule. 364 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:26,900 I was, "Okay, when do you--we're ready to get that cleaning job done, 365 00:14:26,967 --> 00:14:28,934 we're ready to go," because I wanted to have time 366 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,266 because I knew what he was gonna do again 367 00:14:30,333 --> 00:14:31,900 was go back and make sure everything was perfect. 368 00:14:31,967 --> 00:14:33,533 Which is what I wanted as well, of course. 369 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,600 [Judge DiMango] But do you hear what you're saying? 370 00:14:34,667 --> 00:14:36,467 You're saying I wanted a couple of days 371 00:14:36,533 --> 00:14:38,400 because I knew he was gonna go back and check 372 00:14:38,467 --> 00:14:40,700 and we were probably gonna have to go back and fix it. 373 00:14:40,767 --> 00:14:43,633 But the bottom line is do you think that he deserves something back? 374 00:14:43,934 --> 00:14:46,000 I mean, I--whatever you guys think of is fair. 375 00:14:46,066 --> 00:14:47,834 - I mean, I thought like I tried to... - [Judge DiMango] We appreciate that. 376 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:49,867 I don't think we need to say anything further. 377 00:14:49,934 --> 00:14:50,934 I mean, I'm not gonna argue, honestly. 378 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,433 Like, if, I think, things could have been communicated a lot better 379 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:54,967 between the both of us, 380 00:14:55,033 --> 00:14:58,100 I feel like I'm, like, a young woman who just started her business 381 00:14:58,165 --> 00:14:59,165 - and I don't wanna get, like... - [Judge DiMango] Oh, please. 382 00:14:59,233 --> 00:15:00,667 - Don't give me that kind of thing. - ... taken advantage of. 383 00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:02,500 That's--you know darn well how to do a cleaning business. 384 00:15:02,567 --> 00:15:05,200 [Cheyenne] I mean, I don't know. It seems like he's been around-- 385 00:15:05,266 --> 00:15:06,700 he's been around the block a couple of times 386 00:15:06,767 --> 00:15:08,166 when it comes to trying to sue people, so. 387 00:15:08,233 --> 00:15:09,233 [Judge DiMango] Oh, my gosh. 388 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:10,567 [Judge Acker] He's not in the grave! 389 00:15:10,633 --> 00:15:12,200 [Judge DiMango] You're saying he's been around the block, 390 00:15:12,266 --> 00:15:14,033 so he knows he can keep coming back for money 391 00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:16,166 and I'm a naive innocent woman--young woman. 392 00:15:16,233 --> 00:15:17,734 I didn't say I was naive nor innocent, but... 393 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,900 But you are saying that. 394 00:15:18,967 --> 00:15:20,734 That's why you're saying that you really don't know how to handle his... 395 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,033 [Cheyenne] If he can--if he thinks he can take advantage of... 396 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:23,967 Why do you keep talking over people? 397 00:15:24,033 --> 00:15:25,767 They're telling you stuff that's important to them 398 00:15:25,834 --> 00:15:27,867 and you're too busy trying to make your point, 399 00:15:27,934 --> 00:15:32,033 and you can't because obviously he made his point more successfully. 400 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:33,165 I don't have any other questions for you. 401 00:15:33,233 --> 00:15:34,300 Okay. Great. 402 00:15:34,367 --> 00:15:36,834 [Judge Levy] And then, Ms. Hutchins, the last thing I have for you is, 403 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:38,467 you guys met in this restaurant setting. 404 00:15:38,533 --> 00:15:39,533 You were a server. 405 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,133 You wanted to better yourself in some way 406 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,300 and the way you did that was by starting a business. 407 00:15:44,367 --> 00:15:45,367 Correct. 408 00:15:45,433 --> 00:15:48,600 Everything kind of rises and falls on you, the owner, now. 409 00:15:48,667 --> 00:15:52,165 You're in charge of new business, keeping old business happy, 410 00:15:52,233 --> 00:15:54,300 finding workers to work with you, 411 00:15:54,367 --> 00:15:56,800 complying with state, local, and federal laws. 412 00:15:56,867 --> 00:15:59,500 It's a heck of a lot more work than just, you know, 413 00:15:59,567 --> 00:16:01,867 being a server and I know being a server could be very difficult. 414 00:16:01,934 --> 00:16:03,133 I did it for years. 415 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,967 But you got an education on what it was like to be an owner. 416 00:16:06,033 --> 00:16:07,166 - Right. - I got it. 417 00:16:07,233 --> 00:16:09,200 - All right. I got nothing further. - [Judge Acker] Very quickly. 418 00:16:09,266 --> 00:16:11,367 This is for Mr. Been-around-the-block. 419 00:16:11,433 --> 00:16:12,667 The old guy over here. 420 00:16:12,734 --> 00:16:15,934 [Judge Acker] If you acknowledge that there are some things 421 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,100 that her crew did well, why are you suing to get all of your money back? 422 00:16:20,166 --> 00:16:21,867 Because that might be unfair. 423 00:16:21,934 --> 00:16:25,033 Um, there is a consideration of time and damages 424 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,133 that come with the process of suing somebody. 425 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,867 Um, I'm experienced in suing people in consolation... 426 00:16:30,934 --> 00:16:33,066 Because you are--have been--we know. 427 00:16:33,133 --> 00:16:34,400 - You've been around the block. - Since I've been around the block. 428 00:16:34,467 --> 00:16:35,867 Well, he made--he made your point for you. 429 00:16:35,934 --> 00:16:38,734 [Judge DiMango] You've also been around the courthouse apparently. 430 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,767 Oh, I'm in, uh, rental management business, 431 00:16:41,834 --> 00:16:44,533 so I do have to make appearances from time to time. 432 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,333 And I do understand that you are allowed to sue for damages. 433 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,834 I am suing for a project not completed 434 00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:53,600 that I very much tried to set a settlement with 435 00:16:53,667 --> 00:16:56,967 in advance with options that I found to be very fair. 436 00:16:57,033 --> 00:16:58,834 I didn't receive responses, 437 00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:00,667 and I needed the property cleaned 438 00:17:00,734 --> 00:17:02,734 - so I could start repairs. - [Judge Acker] I got it. 439 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:03,800 Thank you. 440 00:17:03,867 --> 00:17:05,700 We're gonna retire to deliberate. Thank you very much. 441 00:17:05,767 --> 00:17:06,767 [Cheyenne] Thank you. 442 00:17:06,834 --> 00:17:08,032 [Cassandra] Court is now in recess. 443 00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:09,800 Parties may step out. 444 00:17:09,867 --> 00:17:13,000 [dramatic musical sting] 445 00:17:13,066 --> 00:17:14,900 All right. So the question that we have to answer 446 00:17:14,967 --> 00:17:17,700 is whether or not the defendant substantially performed 447 00:17:17,767 --> 00:17:18,967 under the contract. 448 00:17:19,032 --> 00:17:22,200 The, uh, specifics of those were clearly identified, 449 00:17:22,266 --> 00:17:25,400 memorialized in writing and on the video, so done. 450 00:17:25,467 --> 00:17:27,500 And then we have to ask whether or not 451 00:17:27,567 --> 00:17:29,533 there was a material breach of that contract, 452 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,133 and I say yes, there most certainly was. 453 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,967 The photos taken after the cleaning 454 00:17:34,033 --> 00:17:36,834 is the best evidence of that breach. 455 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:39,967 So I believe he's entitled to everything that he's asking for, 456 00:17:40,033 --> 00:17:41,667 $406.13. 457 00:17:41,734 --> 00:17:43,066 [Judge Acker] Every dollar. 458 00:17:43,133 --> 00:17:44,734 She didn't substantially comply. 459 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,367 Her business didn't substantially comply 460 00:17:47,433 --> 00:17:50,100 even though he didn't have a problem with all of it. 461 00:17:50,633 --> 00:17:53,066 He had a problem with substantially enough of it 462 00:17:53,133 --> 00:17:54,266 for me to find in his favor. 463 00:17:54,333 --> 00:17:56,500 I found interesting that when she described the deep cleaning, 464 00:17:56,567 --> 00:17:57,734 she says, "And we clean your toilet." 465 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,633 I'm thinking, well, why wouldn't you clean the toilet? 466 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,333 That should be anybody. 467 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,700 Because your mind was on those photographs 468 00:18:03,767 --> 00:18:05,433 and the dirt and grime that was left. 469 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:06,500 - Yeah. - Absolutely. 470 00:18:06,567 --> 00:18:07,567 But it was a breach of contract. 471 00:18:07,633 --> 00:18:09,834 She did not comport with the terms and conditions 472 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:11,600 that she assured everybody of. 473 00:18:11,667 --> 00:18:13,533 And I think this is a lesson learned for her. 474 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,967 I mean, there are certain losses that come with business. 475 00:18:16,033 --> 00:18:17,633 You learn what's involved in a business, 476 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:20,233 and the bottom line is he deserves to get all his money back. 477 00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:21,400 - Unanimous. - [Judge DiMango] Uh-hmm. 478 00:18:21,467 --> 00:18:22,500 I'll take care of it. 479 00:18:24,266 --> 00:18:25,867 What are you gonna do? Check out the place? 480 00:18:25,934 --> 00:18:27,033 No. 481 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:29,900 [dramatic musical sting] 482 00:18:29,967 --> 00:18:31,333 [Cassandra] Court is back in session. 483 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,900 All parties are reminded that you're still under oath. 484 00:18:33,967 --> 00:18:35,500 - [Judge Levy] Thank you, Cassandra. - You're welcome. 485 00:18:35,567 --> 00:18:38,500 All right. Ms. Hutchins, the question for us is what was the contract? 486 00:18:38,567 --> 00:18:41,867 The contract was to perform a standard clean 487 00:18:41,934 --> 00:18:44,266 and then on top of that, deep clean. 488 00:18:44,333 --> 00:18:47,667 And that deep clean included everything that you told us before, 489 00:18:47,734 --> 00:18:50,834 then whether or not you materially breached that contract. 490 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,800 And the answer was the photographs that were provided, 491 00:18:53,867 --> 00:18:55,166 the garbage that was left, 492 00:18:55,233 --> 00:18:58,900 whether it be around the refrigerator or what have you. 493 00:18:58,967 --> 00:19:00,600 Clearly not a deep clean 494 00:19:00,667 --> 00:19:03,266 as you had contracted with the plaintiff to do. 495 00:19:03,333 --> 00:19:05,734 Now, your reputation, 496 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,333 it could take a beating, 497 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,867 a beating despite your best efforts by other people 498 00:19:10,934 --> 00:19:12,967 not doing what they're supposed to do. 499 00:19:13,033 --> 00:19:15,400 So it's the unanimous verdict of the court 500 00:19:15,467 --> 00:19:18,433 that the plaintiff has met out his burden of proof in this case 501 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:22,100 for the total amount of $406.13. 502 00:19:22,166 --> 00:19:23,400 - That's the verdict. - [gavel bangs] 503 00:19:24,266 --> 00:19:27,533 [Cassandra] This case has concluded. All parties are excused. 504 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,300 [theme music plays] 505 00:19:31,367 --> 00:19:32,767 I wasn't surprised, honestly. 506 00:19:32,834 --> 00:19:33,967 He's, um, very nitpicky. 507 00:19:34,033 --> 00:19:35,233 I've known him for quite some time. 508 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:36,700 Uh, well, I am nitpicky. 509 00:19:36,767 --> 00:19:38,166 I definitely wish I would've followed my gut 510 00:19:38,233 --> 00:19:40,000 and not done business with him again. 511 00:19:40,066 --> 00:19:42,333 I won't say that it is out of the question 512 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,166 because I like to give people opportunities. 513 00:19:44,233 --> 00:19:45,834 I won't work with him in the future, no. 514 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,500 I'm gonna have to pay you after you do the service. 515 00:19:48,967 --> 00:19:50,867 [announcer] Feel like suing someone? 516 00:19:50,934 --> 00:19:53,266 Let the majority rule in your favor 517 00:19:53,333 --> 00:19:55,100 on Tribunal Justice. 518 00:19:55,166 --> 00:19:57,300 Find us on social media. 519 00:19:57,367 --> 00:20:00,867 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]