You hired the defendant's cleaning company.
- The job was terrible. - Correct.
And that looks like caked on dirt.
- Look at the dirt on this. - [Judge Levy] No way that was mopped.
Cigarette butts on the floor.
[Judge Levy] The garbage that was left.
But there are also dead bugs underneath there.
He told me that they were doing a great job.
That's preposterous.
[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
[Cassandra] Your Honor, this is case number 2024,
Friends versus Hutchins.
All parties have been sworn in.
Thank you, Cassandra.
You may now be seated.
[Judge Levy] All right. Mr. Friends, I read your complaint.
You hired the defendant's cleaning company
to deep clean one of your rental houses, right?
- Correct. - [Judge Levy] You claim
that the job was terrible,
that the defendant failed to substantially perform
under your contract,
and you're suing for a full refund of $406.13.
- Yes, that's correct. - [Judge Levy] Okay. And Ms. Hutchins,
you say that your cleaners went above and beyond
what should be expected of that type of a job,
you owe him nothing,
and your efforts to make it right afterwards,
after he complained, he told you not to come,
he didn't want you or your cleaners back in his home, correct?
Basically, yes.
[Judge Levy] All right. So Mr. Friends,
tell us how you two know each other. How'd you meet?
Um, I believe we both worked
at a, uh, bar in downtown Minneapolis
as a server and I was a, uh, security guard at the time.
Been friends on Facebook for, you know, five-plus years.
[Judge Levy] So you say that you guys met working at a restaurant?
Yeah, well, he was a regular at the time
when I--when we first met, he was coming in as like, uh, a customer.
- Then he did eventually work there, yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay.
There came a time though that you asked the defendant
to clean an apartment that you were getting ready to rent?
Yes, I have, uh-- I have two real estate companies
and I also have personal real estate as well.
And how long you've been doing that?
I started in about 2018.
And Ms. Hutchins, uh, so you went from server in the restaurant
- to owning a cleaning business? - [Cheyenne] Yup.
So I'm also a leasing consultant.
Um, my boyfriend and I actually started Great Lake Maids together, uh, a couple...
- Great Lake Maids? - [Cheyenne] Yup.
- Great Lake Maids. - Okay.
Um, so we subcontract cleaning crews for residential cleaning.
About late June, early July is when we first started
free marketing on Facebook, which is where he found me.
So what was it then, Mr. Friends, that you said to the defendant
to get this ball rolling with respect to hiring her company?
Um, I believe I put out some feelers
on, uh, social media to find some cleaning services.
My business partner said, "Well, try out Cheyenne's service.
She's always posting about her business."
So I followed up with a message to her,
um, and we started service there for the first time.
Um, that service wasn't up to the level that I had wanted
and we did our best to come to a solution.
[Judge Levy] Hold on one second.
I know that there was a prior instance where you had hired her crew.
And I'm gonna ask you the following about the first home.
- [Cheyenne] Yeah. - Was it a disaster?
- Yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay.
They--my cleaning crew had to get rid of all of their cleaning supplies.
- It was very bad, yeah. - [Judge Levy] The first one?
- A disaster? - [Cheyenne] Yeah.
I mean, more work than you thought
when you first initially quoted him a price?
Yeah. Both times, my cleaning crews messaged me,
like, "This is really bad."
- Okay. So we can agree... - Like, there was a huge presence
- of cat urine... - ... no question that that first one
that you stuck her with, horrible, right?
For the record, yeah. It was disgusting.
[Judge Levy] So in the text now regarding the second one,
he contacted you, told you what he was looking for,
and you gave him a price.
Yeah.
[Judge Levy] How did you quote him that price?
Did you actually go and inspect the home
or did you take his representations?
So, um, I use, um, a scheduling system called Modern Maid IO,
which basically, it takes the square footage of the home,
the amount of bedrooms, the amount of bathrooms,
and I ask a couple of questions just to kind of figure out,
like, are you gonna need a deeper clean in specific areas of the home?
Um, that's where the lack of communication, I think, came in.
There was cat urine in the--
he did let me know that the people had smoked in the house,
but the level of residue left on the walls,
that alone my cleaners had to spent two hours on,
so I could've charged him more, honestly, so...
Okay. Why don't tell us then, Mr. Friends, what it is that you told her?
I know you guys sent us texts.
You indicated that your tenants had just moved out,
that there were pets previously in the apartment,
they were smokers, and it needs to be cleaned top to bottom.
- Yes, that's correct. - [Judge Levy] And you received that text?
Yes. And I will say, too, because I know Jeff
and I appreciated him supporting my business as it is very new.
- I gave him a discount off the bat, so... - [Judge Levy] Okay.
Going forward, after giving a description of the house,
you then sent photos in those text messages, correct?
- Yes, I sent about nine, I think. - For the second home.
- [Judge Levy] For the second? - Yeah. Yup.
We have you saying to the defendant, "Tenants moved out."
You sent photos and then you said,
- "It's just like the last one." - Yes.
So you knew that when you were bidding out this job,
that this now, the one we're talking about, the second one,
was just like that nasty first one.
- Fair? - Yeah. Fair.
Okay. And then there was another text in which you said,
"Make sure they clean the windows and the window trim."
And when you sent that text,
can you tell us what the reasons were that you sent that?
[Jeffrey] I believe that was when I had come in at midday,
being that this was the second time working with the defendant.
Um, I walked through quickly,
said hi, smiled.
Um, and there were some areas that I had already been concerned about.
And that's why I wanted to specify that these areas needed to be cleaned.
I was just trying to present it in the nicest manner as possible to say,
"Make sure."
[Judge Levy] Got it. And that's the way you took it?
Yeah. He told me that they were doing a great job.
He was--he was pleased with everything and also my cleaners,
I re-sent her the deep cleaning checklist, which she already had,
and I said, "Can you make sure you've everything on this list?"
She said, "Yes, we did a deep cleaning, everything was done."
He came in to check and said everything was good.
But you're not suggesting that he was there
when they had completely finished and told you they did a great job?
He said they were doing a great job.
- Yeah. The... - [Judge Levy] Don't forget...
He said everything looked good. Yup, make sure you do this.
[Judge Levy] Right. And then he said,
"As long as all the nooks and crannies are taken care of,
I will be happy."
You know why he references nooks and crannies, right?
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
Does the deep clean involve moving heavy objects?
Based on the definition of "every crook and nanny" that would then include...
- No, every crook... - Every nanny and...
- [Judge Acker] Every... - Oh, no.
- Not on TV. - Every nook and cranny.
- [laughter] - [dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Property manager Jeffrey Friends
is suing cleaning service owner Cheyenne Hutchins,
claiming her deep clean services were actually pretty shallow.
But Cheyenne claims her cleaners scoured every nook and cranny.
He said, "As long as all the nooks and crannies are taken of,
I will be happy."
You know why he references nooks and crannies, right?
From our deep cleaning list? Yeah.
[Judge Levy] Yes. Go ahead.
[Jeffrey] So the evidence from her, um, list
of what the deep clean entails,
that the last one pointed out in capitals.
Read it, please?
[Jeffrey] "Every nook and cranny of the house."
[Judge Levy] So you have a standard clean,
and then above the standard clean is the deep clean.
- [Cheyenne] Yes. - And the deep clean
is every nook and cranny in the house, right?
- Correct. - [Judge Levy] Okay.
And we have a video describing the services
of your business that you provided.
I think it's useful and helpful.
- [Cheyenne] Sure. - Thank you.
With the standard cleaning, we're gonna be looking
at the outside of appliances.
We'll clean and sanitize the outside of appliances and cabinets.
We'll clean your sink.
We're gonna sweep and mop and vacuum and tidy up.
Basically with the deep cleaning, we're gonna be doing
the inside of your refrigerator.
We're gonna do the inside of the stove.
We're gonna do the inside of the microwave.
We're gonna clean the toilet.
Uh, we're gonna pay more attention to the baseboards, to doorknobs.
We'll do dusting and wiping down of walls and ceiling fans, if applicable.
As far as wall cleaning goes, if there is more elbow grease
that has to be put into it,
a deep cleaning is gonna be giving a little bit of extra love.
[Judge Levy] So extra love. That's a deep cleaning?
- Yes. - Thank you. Judge Acker.
- Do you do any of the cleaning yourself? - [Cheyenne] No, I don't.
I subcontract crews,
um, I look at basically their resume,
um, to see, you know, if they've done professional cleaning before.
[Judge Acker] It's never the same.
If you're the owner, if you're the proprietor,
- you have to have your hands in it. - Yeah.
[Judge Acker] Let's put up exhibit number five.
Mr. Friends, you submitted this photograph.
Tell us what we're looking at.
[Jeffrey] Um, this was after I moved the refrigerator to the side,
and just ran a broom across.
[Judge Acker] But you had to move the refrigerator?
- [Jeffrey] Yes, I did. - Does the deep clean
involve moving heavy objects?
Based on the definition of "every crook and nanny"
- that would then include... - No, every crook--no, every nanny...
- Every nanny and... - [Judge Acker] Every...
Oh, no.
- Not on TV. - Every nook and cranny.
Just a bad cleaning job, no crooks.
- Yeah. - [Judge Acker] No crooks.
When you go into these properties,
or rather when your crews go into these properties,
do they move furniture?
[Cheyenne] Not unless asked.
I have had a couple of people who have asked,
"Hey, can you please make sure to move the refrigerator
or move the couch or you can move that desk."
Because the refrigerator is a pretty big thing.
- When I look at that... - [Cheyenne] Yes, exactly.
Especially when it's smaller women doing the cleaning job,
that's why we do ask, you know,
like, "Are there specific things that need to be done?"
Because typically, like, if you have like a maid service,
they're not going in there moving your oven and your stove
- when they go to clean your home. - Right, I have a lovely housekeeper,
she hasn't moved the refrigerator every day.
- But, but... - Right and--but if he asked to do that,
absolutely, we would've made sure it was done.
But you move a refrigerator when you're doing a deep cleaning.
Maybe, maybe.
But let's look at some of the other exhibits.
Can we look at exhibit seven, please?
Now where did you find these cigarette butts, sir?
Um, I found those in the back bedroom.
I believe it was pulled out just inches from--
that's a heat baseboard that sits an inch or two off the ground.
But if anybody had run a broom alongside of that, or vacuum cleaner,
those two cigarettes would've been vacuumed up
or put into a dustpan.
That's pretty preposterous.
You have to admit, right?
Absolutely. And I would be upset as well.
Um, I believe when he told me where he found it, it was underneath a heater.
- and it was--but it's something that... - They have to sweep though.
... like I would--I've learned now that I need to go and do my own walkthroughs
in which case when--in homes where the people specifically tell me
it's a disgusting house
and I don't wanna like make excuses,
but the two and a half hours they spent scrubbing cigarette residue off the walls,
you know, I think could have played a part
and maybe them lacking where they should have done a better job.
When you hire these subcontractors,
do you pay them by the hour or do you simply give them a flat fee?
- I give them a flat fee, a percentage. - [Judge Acker] Huge mistake.
If you were sending out other hands to clean somebody's property,
and you say to them, "You know, what? Clean for two hours."
They'll clean for two hours.
Yup. And that's a huge thing that we have talked about as well,
um, and again because I know Jeff.
I didn't want to charge him more.
And that's why I did ask him but he was on...
And let's look at this, ma'am.
Looking at what seems to be a window
and that looks like caked on dirt.
That's filthy. I wouldn't wanna touch that window.
I wouldn't touch it. I'd put on gloves.
Yeah. Again, a huge point of me having to do the walkthrough
because the pictures I was sent by my cleaners,
it didn't look like that, so...
Of course not, because your cleaners wanna show that,
"Hey, we did the whole thing." But they didn't.
And since you are the proprietor,
your business, your name, your reputation on the line,
just be a little reasonable.
Well, the one thing is we--I offered for them to go back
and, you know, fix the mistakes.
It wasn't within his timeframe which is why when he was on--
when he asked me to do the cleaning, I specifically said
I wanna do it sooner than later
because knowing next time I'll trust my gut
and not work with someone again
who is, you know, a particular type of way.
[Judge Acker] Oh, wait a minute. I got to interrupt you.
Because where I hear you going is from a place of, "Yeah. You know what?
I made a mistake. I should have done it better."
To, "Oh, my God. He's so particular.
How dare he not want cigarette butts on the floor?
How dare he not want an absolutely filthy window
that any sane sanitary person
would not wanna touch without gloves?"
That's why you hire a house cleaning service.
- No, absolutely. - [Judge Acker] He's not wrong
for wanting a clean house
when he pays for a clean house.
- [Judge DiMango] Yeah. - [Judge Acker] Judge DiMango?
It's funny when I first read it, I said, "Well, maybe he's very picayune,
maybe he has unreasonable expectations."
And then I looked at the photographs,
I did see the same photograph here.
This mess on the windowsill here.
This additional set of dirt.
You're right. This is crooks and nannies.
You were being crooked.
- Really. - [Cheyenne] Yeah.
And I'd love--I wish I would've done the walkthrough myself
because I find it really hard to believe with all of the great,
- like, responses we get from people. - You have now experienced
the cost of doing business.
I mean there's just dirt everywhere.
So did you see these before you came to court?
Yeah, I'd seen--I saw some of them. Definitely.
[Judge DiMango] So when he said give me money back,
you didn't wanna give him anything it seemed, correct?
I just felt that it was a pattern. He did the same thing.
- He said that they did a... - [Judge DiMango] Well, it was twice.
But you had a pattern as well, and that's not doing your job.
Well, he said they did a great job the first two times.
Like both times, they did a great job
and they're--and obviously I told him even before he had seen it,
I said, "If there's anything else you need,
please let me know right away so we can fix this situation."
I know that you are now saying it should have been better.
- I got it. - [Cheyenne] Yeah, absolutely.
[Judge DiMango] And I think there were three options.
I think you might have said it.
You can give me my money back, you can come in and fix it,
- or I can never use you again. - [Cheyenne] Yeah.
- So I think you want to go... - [Cheyenne] He told me 195
would be something fair, and now he's asking for 406.
- I'm like... - [Judge DiMango] Well, now he is.
But he was asking for 50% before.
But what he's actually saying to you is you didn't do your job.
I recognize that you guys did something,
but I don't think what you can say here
is that this was a job worth paying for in full.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
I feel like I'm like a young woman
who just started her business and I don't wanna get like...
Oh, please. Don't give me that kind of thing.
It seems like he's been around the block a couple times
when it comes to trying to sue people.
[Judge DiMango] Oh, my god.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Jeffrey Friends hired cleaning company owner Cheyenne Hutchins
to clean his rental property.
He's suing Cheyenne for leaving dirt, dust,
and cigarette butts everywhere.
Cheyenne says Jeffrey lied about the level of cleaning required.
He gave you a deadline.
I think time was of the essence when you contracted with him.
Which is the point I was trying to prove earlier, too,
was that--that's why I wanted to schedule.
I was, "Okay, when do you--we're ready to get that cleaning job done,
we're ready to go," because I wanted to have time
because I knew what he was gonna do again
was go back and make sure everything was perfect.
Which is what I wanted as well, of course.
[Judge DiMango] But do you hear what you're saying?
You're saying I wanted a couple of days
because I knew he was gonna go back and check
and we were probably gonna have to go back and fix it.
But the bottom line is do you think that he deserves something back?
I mean, I--whatever you guys think of is fair.
- I mean, I thought like I tried to... - [Judge DiMango] We appreciate that.
I don't think we need to say anything further.
I mean, I'm not gonna argue, honestly.
Like, if, I think, things could have been communicated a lot better
between the both of us,
I feel like I'm, like, a young woman who just started her business
- and I don't wanna get, like... - [Judge DiMango] Oh, please.
- Don't give me that kind of thing. - ... taken advantage of.
That's--you know darn well how to do a cleaning business.
[Cheyenne] I mean, I don't know. It seems like he's been around--
he's been around the block a couple of times
when it comes to trying to sue people, so.
[Judge DiMango] Oh, my gosh.
[Judge Acker] He's not in the grave!
[Judge DiMango] You're saying he's been around the block,
so he knows he can keep coming back for money
and I'm a naive innocent woman--young woman.
I didn't say I was naive nor innocent, but...
But you are saying that.
That's why you're saying that you really don't know how to handle his...
[Cheyenne] If he can--if he thinks he can take advantage of...
Why do you keep talking over people?
They're telling you stuff that's important to them
and you're too busy trying to make your point,
and you can't because obviously he made his point more successfully.
I don't have any other questions for you.
Okay. Great.
[Judge Levy] And then, Ms. Hutchins, the last thing I have for you is,
you guys met in this restaurant setting.
You were a server.
You wanted to better yourself in some way
and the way you did that was by starting a business.
Correct.
Everything kind of rises and falls on you, the owner, now.
You're in charge of new business, keeping old business happy,
finding workers to work with you,
complying with state, local, and federal laws.
It's a heck of a lot more work than just, you know,
being a server and I know being a server could be very difficult.
I did it for years.
But you got an education on what it was like to be an owner.
- Right. - I got it.
- All right. I got nothing further. - [Judge Acker] Very quickly.
This is for Mr. Been-around-the-block.
The old guy over here.
[Judge Acker] If you acknowledge that there are some things
that her crew did well, why are you suing to get all of your money back?
Because that might be unfair.
Um, there is a consideration of time and damages
that come with the process of suing somebody.
Um, I'm experienced in suing people in consolation...
Because you are--have been--we know.
- You've been around the block. - Since I've been around the block.
Well, he made--he made your point for you.
[Judge DiMango] You've also been around the courthouse apparently.
Oh, I'm in, uh, rental management business,
so I do have to make appearances from time to time.
And I do understand that you are allowed to sue for damages.
I am suing for a project not completed
that I very much tried to set a settlement with
in advance with options that I found to be very fair.
I didn't receive responses,
and I needed the property cleaned
- so I could start repairs. - [Judge Acker] I got it.
Thank you.
We're gonna retire to deliberate. Thank you very much.
[Cheyenne] Thank you.
[Cassandra] Court is now in recess.
Parties may step out.
[dramatic musical sting]
All right. So the question that we have to answer
is whether or not the defendant substantially performed
under the contract.
The, uh, specifics of those were clearly identified,
memorialized in writing and on the video, so done.
And then we have to ask whether or not
there was a material breach of that contract,
and I say yes, there most certainly was.
The photos taken after the cleaning
is the best evidence of that breach.
So I believe he's entitled to everything that he's asking for,
$406.13.
[Judge Acker] Every dollar.
She didn't substantially comply.
Her business didn't substantially comply
even though he didn't have a problem with all of it.
He had a problem with substantially enough of it
for me to find in his favor.
I found interesting that when she described the deep cleaning,
she says, "And we clean your toilet."
I'm thinking, well, why wouldn't you clean the toilet?
That should be anybody.
Because your mind was on those photographs
and the dirt and grime that was left.
- Yeah. - Absolutely.
But it was a breach of contract.
She did not comport with the terms and conditions
that she assured everybody of.
And I think this is a lesson learned for her.
I mean, there are certain losses that come with business.
You learn what's involved in a business,
and the bottom line is he deserves to get all his money back.
- Unanimous. - [Judge DiMango] Uh-hmm.
I'll take care of it.
What are you gonna do? Check out the place?
No.
[dramatic musical sting]
[Cassandra] Court is back in session.
All parties are reminded that you're still under oath.
- [Judge Levy] Thank you, Cassandra. - You're welcome.
All right. Ms. Hutchins, the question for us is what was the contract?
The contract was to perform a standard clean
and then on top of that, deep clean.
And that deep clean included everything that you told us before,
then whether or not you materially breached that contract.
And the answer was the photographs that were provided,
the garbage that was left,
whether it be around the refrigerator or what have you.
Clearly not a deep clean
as you had contracted with the plaintiff to do.
Now, your reputation,
it could take a beating,
a beating despite your best efforts by other people
not doing what they're supposed to do.
So it's the unanimous verdict of the court
that the plaintiff has met out his burden of proof in this case
for the total amount of $406.13.
- That's the verdict. - [gavel bangs]
[Cassandra] This case has concluded. All parties are excused.
[theme music plays]
I wasn't surprised, honestly.
He's, um, very nitpicky.
I've known him for quite some time.
Uh, well, I am nitpicky.
I definitely wish I would've followed my gut
and not done business with him again.
I won't say that it is out of the question
because I like to give people opportunities.
I won't work with him in the future, no.
I'm gonna have to pay you after you do the service.
[announcer] Feel like suing someone?
Let the majority rule in your favor
on Tribunal Justice.
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["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]