[Levy] You're suing your ex-boyfriend here.
You loaned him money.
-It was never a gift. -I didn't ask for the money, Your Honor.
That is a lie.
She got physical with you.
Once I said I don't want to deal with you anymore,
that's when the court came.
The breakup made you second guess what you were doing all along.
-Possibly. -You're lucky he didn't press charges.
I just lost my mom.
But that doesn't justify physical assault.
[narrator] Now, on Tribunal Justice...
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Today's case was filed in Newark, NJ.
Your Honor, this is Case #3065, Williams vs. McDonald.
Both parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
-[Levy] Thank you, Cassandra. -[Britt] You're welcome.
[Levy] All right, Miss Williams.
-Yes. -You're suing your ex-boyfriend here,
-Mr. McDonald. -Yes, that's correct.
According to your complaint, you loaned him money to get his car
out of impound after it was repossessed for his failure to repay a loan.
-Yes. -[Levy] You're here seeking $1,525
that you loaned him and that he didn't pay back.
-That's correct. -And, Mr. McDonald,
according to your answer, sir, you claim that the money
that the plaintiff gave you was a gift.
And that she only filed suit after you broke up with her.
-Yes, your honor. -Got it.
[Levy] Okay, Miss Williams, how long had you and the defendant been dating
before you loaned him this $1,500?
We was dating for a good six months.
When I first met Roger, he was really sweet.
Um... massaging my feet when I got off of work. Um...
A lot of love bombing. And, um...
at the time, he was an Uber driver.
So when he did call me and we talked...
it was never a gift. I don't know what he's talking about.
Um... As you can see in my text messages, he definitely told me
that he was going to pay me back.
So Miss Williams, according to your complaint, you say in July of 2024
-your mom died. -Yes, that's correct.
And in August, you had to pay for her funeral.
-Yes. -And around that time in August
is when the defendant told you his car was repossessed.
-Yes. -You told him, "Hey.
Don't ask me to borrow money. Ask one of your friends."
No, I did not say that. What I said was,
"Can you get money from your friends?
-'Cause $2,000 is a lot." -And what did he say?
Because you're an Uber driver.
Me dating someone, if they tell you, you know, my car got repossessed
and that's the way they get their money, of course, you're gonna try to help them,
'cause I'm dating you.
All right, well, the point is that he originally asked for $2,000.
-Yeah. -Then you told him it was a lot of money.
-Ask your friends. -Can you. Yeah.
Can you reach out to your friends and get something?
Fine. And then did he come back after you asked him to speak to his friends
-with a different amount? -Yes. Yes.
[Levy] And that amount was the $1,525--
$1,525, that's correct.
And did he tell you what he needed that $1,525 for?
-[Trina] Yes -How many missed payments did he have?
Well... he didn't, he really didn't want to tell me that.
I was asking him, and it seemed like it was an issue.
I said, "How much is your car note?"
Like, "How much did you miss?" And he was like, "Why do that matter?
I just need my car."
Mr. McDonald, do you remember asking first for $2,000?
I didn't ask for the money, Your Honor.
I noticed that the car wasn't outside after I just left from Miss Williams
earlier that day.
So I already knew what it was, 'cause I knew I missed the two payments.
It was two payments plus the accrued interest.
So when I let her know that the car wasn't outside, her first initial reaction was--
[Levy] Well, hold on, you just said it wasn't outside.
Is that all you said or did you say, listen, it's not outside.
I'm pretty sure that it got repossessed, because I didn't pay two payments?
-Mm-hmm. -[Levy] Is that what you said?
Yup. Pretty much basically summing up in a nutshell.
[Levy] All right, fine.
So she knew what happened to the vehicle, and that right there in that instance,
she said, "Okay, well we need to get that car out," because this is the month
-of August, right before my birthday. -That is a lie.
And then she said we need to get your car out,
because we were taking a trip down to Baltimore,
which she had planned for my birthday, but...
she didn't want to drive her car. So, of course...
we need my car out of the impound if we're going to use
my car to drive down to Maryland.
So she insisted on giving me the money to get it out.
Did you at any time offer to repay the money that you borrowed from her?
I did. I said I would pay you over time.
And this is while we were still dating.
Uh... I told her, like she said I was doing Uber at the time.
So I told her, you know, that payments are going to come after I catch back up
on the car payments, of course.
And then she was okay with that.
What does she do for a living?
When we were dating, when we first started dating back then, I don't know.
I think she was doing something in HR or something like that, but I don't know
where she was at specifically, but I think she was doing something in HR.
What do you mean? You're dating her, right?
-You guys were exclusive? -Yeah, she was doing something.
No, we weren't exclusive.
-[Levy] You were not? -Yeah.
-Did you know that, Miss Williams? -Yes.
[Levy] All right. What were you doing for a living?
How are you supporting yourself?
I was a business office manager.
-[Levy] In HR? -Yes.
Okay, how much were you making at the time per year?
-Maybe like 80, 80,000 -[Levy] All right.
-[Levy] And you had savings? -Yes.
[Levy] Okay, let's take a look at this car.
That's the one that you missed the two payments on?
-Yup. -[Levy] Okay.
So what was it that he told you as far as the repayment?
He told me give him about two weeks and he'll be able to pay me back.
Once he get his car back, he gonna start doing Uber again.
[Levy] And just so we're clear, do you remember asking her for $2,000 originally?
Uh. No, I told her the original amount which it was for the car.
It was about like 22, 23,
but I told her I had borrowed money from a friend of mine
so I really only needed 15 from her.
Fifteen, but I remember you borrowing fifteen twenty-five.
-Fifteen twenty-five. -[Levy] Alright.
-And that was for the two car payments? -Yup.
How much were your car payments?
Uh, at the time they were $570 a month.
[Levy] $570 so $570 and $570 is $1,140.
What'd you need the extra money for?
[dramatic music playing]
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
I read the text messages where you talked about... being hit.
Twice, around my birthday time,
and then she hit me a couple months prior to that.
What happened? Why did you do that?
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Trina Williams is suing ex-boyfriend, Roger McDonald II,
for over $1500 she lent him to get his car out of impound.
Roger says not only did he pay for everything when they were dating,
but Trina was demeaning and abusive, so they're even.
-Remember borrowing $1,525? -[Roger] $1,525.
All right. And that was for the two car payments?
-Yep. -[Levy] How much were your car payments?
Uh, at the time? They were $570 a month.
$570, so $570 and $570 is $1,140.
What'd you need the extra money for?
Uh... the accrued interest.
[Levy] So you're saying the accrued interest was almost a third...
of the entire amount of money that you needed,
-that's how much it was? -Yep.
[Levy] All right. You had text messages on your phone
that you reviewed prior to coming in today, right?
-Yes, your honor. -[Levy] So first of all,
I'm going to direct your attention to September 21st.
You remember telling the plaintiff, "Ask anyone who loans me money
and they will say I pay my [bleep] back."
-Mm-hmm. -[Levy] Do you remember telling her that?
-I do -[Levy] You use the word "loan," right?
In that text, did you not?
-I did. -On October 15th, at 9:48 AM.
You remember telling her, "You really went and filed a claim against me?"
-This is after you filed, correct? -Yes. That's correct.
"You really think I'm not paying you back?
I am cutting off all communication with you after I pay you off."
-That's what you said. -Yup.
And finally, October 15th, later that day, "I'm still paying you back,
because I'm a man of my word.
But if I wanted to be petty, I can literally say I never signed no contract.
I said I would pay you back of my own accord."
-Do you remember that? -Yep.
Do you have any text suggesting that this was a gift,
-not a loan? -No.
No, thank you. I'm done. Judge Acker.
Thank you, Judge, could we put up Exhibit 3, please?
I just want to compare some things that you testified to in court.
With what you said in your answer. Because in your answer...
you said that the plaintiff never asked you
for the money back until you broke up.
But then you just testified to Judge Levy that you told the plaintiff
that you would pay her back over time.
And you told her that while you were still dating.
That was in September. We were no longer dealing with each other.
-Are you now telling me that you misspoke? -Yeah.
I didn't understand what you were saying. It was not while we were dating.
That was after we were dating, in September.
We stopped dating at my birthday which is August 15th,
when she decided to put her hands on me.
Which if you want to go to the exhibit--
I did. I read the text messages where you talked about being hit.
Twice. She hit me around my birthday time when we were in Maryland at the hotel.
Then she hit me a couple months prior to that while we were driving on the highway.
And, uh, Miss Williams, I saw the text messages.
-Yeah. -You don't deny being physical with him,
-do you? -No, I do not.
What happened? Why did you do that?
Well, basically Roger knew I just lost my mom...
and basically he was like...
[sighs] Sorry.
He was basically, like, antagonizing me, telling me,
"Oh... this is the reason why you like this, because of your mom."
And I was telling him, "Can you please stop, like stop talking about...
talking about my mom."
-He was bringing up your mother. -Yeah.
[Acker] And you didn't feel like hearing about it, and you got explosive.
-Yeah. -I'm sorry for the loss of your mother,
but that doesn't justify a physical assault.
-Right. -[Acker] And you're lucky
that he didn't press charges.
And I did see your text message, sir, even after that assault.
You told her you were going to pay her back and I want you to read
what you said on Saturday, September 21st.
This is after the breakup.
Right, "Girl, you reaching, and you even don't believe that.
Why wouldn't-- Why would I not pay you back?
I'm not petty like you. My word is my word."
Stop there. "Your word is your word."
What was the word that you gave her?
I would pay her back.
And so why are we here?
Because after she decided to take me to court after I told her pay her back,
I felt as though now she's being petty, because I did not press charges
after her put her hands on me.
And I feel as though all the money that I spent on her in the timeframe
that we've been together, she hasn't done anything for me.
-I feel like I don't have to pay her back. [Acker] It's your position
that you really kind of want to rethink the deal, because some things--
-Some things have occurred-- -You had a change of heart.
-[Roger] Yeah. -You changed your mind.
But it sounds like it's less the physical assault.
You're upset that she took you to court.
But why do people take people to court?
She didn't take me to court when we were still dealing with each other.
It happened once I told her we're no longer dealing with each other.
Once I said I don't want to deal with you anymore, that's when the court came.
[Acker] Doesn't that make sense, though?
She got physical with you, so you might not want to be getting phone calls
from her and text messages from her.
Maybe court was the safest option.
But I do want to ask you, Miss Williams, he's an Uber driver...
[Trina] Mm-hmm.
-...and there is a good amount of-- -Previously.
-What do you do now, by the way? -I'm a manager.
[Acker] Oh, good for you. Good for you.
I'm glad you brought that up, because there seemed to be...
some tension over whether or not she thought she was better than you
-or she looked down on you. -Yeah. She did.
She's made several statements about it. She did.
Well, people who work for a living and who have jobs,
whether you are driving Uber or sitting on this bench,
the people who actually go to work every day and actually perform
valuable services for people, that's nothing to be looked down on.
My dad was a mail carrier, and I used to love going to work with him
and driving around in that Jeep.
So your job was honorable, and congratulations on being a manager.
Now, so that's really beside the point, but he had a chip on his shoulder
about that, because he say that he thought you looked down on him,
and I think there was a lot of tension around that.
But when he was an Uber driver, who drove you back and forth to work
for a couple of weeks when you couldn't drive?
[dramatic music playing]
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
You're not going to like this, Miss Williams.
The bottom line here is, he's a giver, and you're a taker.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Trina Williams says ex-boyfriend, Roger McDonald II,
borrowed over $1,500 to get his car out of impound
and then never paid her back.
But Roger says he spent way more on Trina out of love and since she abused him,
he owes her nothing.
When he was an Uber driver, who drove you back and forth
to work for a couple of weeks when you couldn't drive?
-It was him. -Did he charge you?
-[Trina] No. -How many miles is it for you to go
from home to work?
From home to work? I would say about eight.
-Eight miles? -Yeah.
-[Acker] Is that true? -At the time, she was going to Long Branch
which is about 45 miles away from where she lived at the time.
That was by the beach, that's for sure.
[Acker] Any truth to that?
For a week.
[Acker] Listen, you are trying to give short shrift to what he did for you,
and I think that he simply wants that to be aired here.
He was a professional, that was his job
and instead of picking up other people where he could make money.
-Mm-hmm. -[Acker] He drove you for two weeks.
Uber's not cheap, and so I think that you want that acknowledged, correct?
[Acker] Thank you. I have nothing further. Judge DiMango.
You're not going to like this, Miss Williams.
The bottom line here is, he's a giver and you're a taker.
I mean, that's pretty obvious in these papers.
-[DiMango] He paid for dinners, correct? -Yeah, but--
He drove you back and forth and took off from work.
-Uh, he drove you-- -[Trina] I did stuff for him, as well.
You just said I took you for a trip for your birthday.
You'll have to stop. The both of you have to stop doing that,
-because this shows us-- -I took you out for dinner, too.
He's saying you hit him. You're the one that keeps antagonizing. Talk to us.
He paid for most of the dinners. You never refuted that,
when he said, "I paid for all your dinners."
In fact, we have a text message in here where you say you can't believe
how kind and generous he is.
-[DiMango] Correct? -Yes.
[DiMango] You started off by saying he massaged your feet
-when you came home from work, right? -Yeah.
He was giving. He was giving. He was giving.
Who gave more in this relationship, you or him?
-Honestly. -Honestly...
-I would say he did, for sure. -[DiMango] Yeah.
Yeah. Okay, back to you.
You did also say that it was going to take about two weeks,
and that makes a lot of sense, because you can't just get back in a car
where that's your living and be able to pay that day.
You would be lying if you said that to her, correct?
-Correct. -So that's another thing
that supports her position,
perhaps, that you were carefully thinking this out.
And you did say, "Hey, listen, my word is golden."
And the breakup made you second guess what you were doing all along,
because you did give us a list of money
that you did spend, and it was substantial.
The gas, the liquor store every three days.
They must have known you by your first name at the liquor store.
Because every one of these, the 21st, the 24th, the 28th, a lot of things.
-That's what I tried to explain to her. -[DiMango] But why do you do that?
Why do you keep track? That's what I was wondering.
I didn't keep track. Well, I mean, it's in my... it's in my records.
So I know exactly because during that timeframe,
I know that I was only going to and from that area for one person
and one person only. And that was her.
Before that, if you go through my records, I was saving, my bills were done,
I was paying on time, everything.
But then once around February, March came,
you can see the influx in spending. You can see it.
I think he picked up on your feeling that he was beneath you,
and that's why you never told her that you were behind on your payments?
-Would that be correct? -Correct.
Because it does say in here you say to him, "Why didn't you just tell me?"
-You know, "Why didn't you tell me?" -Yeah, be honest.
"We maybe could have taken care of this sooner."
And what is your answer?
Are you going to throw it in my face later like everything else?
-[DiMango] And I didn't want you to know. -Mm-hmm.
Because I'm trying to show you that I'm somebody that I may not be.
And I'm afraid you're not going to like that person.
-[DiMango] Is that true? -Possibly.
-I don't have any other questions for you. -[Trina] But, Your Honor--
[Levy] Uh, hold on one second. Miss Williams,
I want to just get this out quickly.
-Yeah. -We're still in a courtroom right?
-Burden of proof is yours. -Yeah.
But just so we're clear, you actually provided us before you came in today
-with proof of that payment, right? -Yes.
-Yeah. -Can we take a look at 01, please?
Your bank statement that you submitted to us.
That bank statement, Zelle money that you sent to Roger McDonald,
-August 9th for $1,525, right? -[Trina] That's correct.
In '02, your banking institution confirming the payment made for $1,525?
-Yes. -[Levy] Okay.
Mr. McDonald, in August of 2024, when you guys were dating,
and prior, so for that period of time, who are you living with?
At the time, I was back at home, with my parents.
-And you weren't paying them rent, right? -No, I was. I was.
I paid my mother rent at the time.
-She does make me pay a rent. -[Levy] Is that right?
-Yes. -[Levy] Okay.
I have nothing further. Thank you.
In December, the two of you were still engaging in text communications
about repayment of this debt.
When did you file this lawsuit?
-December. -[Acker] Pretty shortly
after the debt became due.
Not a bad thing to do, frankly,
especially when there's been a physical altercation.
You are too elegant a person to ever put your hands on anybody.
-Right. -[Acker] Don't do it again.
-I won't. -I don't have anything else.
Then we are going to retire to deliberate at this time. Thank you both.
Thank you.
Court is now in recess. Parties will be recalled.
[dramatic music playing]
Clearly, she lays out on September 21st what their agreement was.
She writes to him, "As agreed,
Friday, September 20th, 2024 was going to be your first payment.
It's now September 21st, and I'll take that to mean
that you don't plan on paying me back."
And that's when he said, "My word is my word.
However, I had to pay [bleep] my first, which was more important,"
is what he wrote. This was a loan, wasn't a gift.
He was upset for whatever reason he was.
And I think that she's made out of burden for $1,525.
I do, too.
You know, I think that now he sort of wants to revisit past good deeds
done in the relationship.
Where I think that he did, I think he extended himself
very much for this young woman, but that's a separate issue
from whether or not this transaction was one
where there was an intention that he pay it back,
and I think that the evidence clearly shows that there was.
I think the whole relationship supports her position,
even in a negative way on her
for her personality type, that she was not going to let this go
without getting paid back.
She really took more in the course of the relationship than she gave.
And then I think in an aftermath, he thought about it, saying,
"Well, you know, I did all of this for her.
This is the quid pro quo.
Now, so, I'll just take this, and we'll kind of be even now."
But, you know, I think he recognized and he knows, as we do,
that this was money that she lent him and that he had to pay her back.
And he made an agreement, and we'll help him keep his word.
I think he really got upset that she sued him.
And sometimes, that's just what people have to do.
When they really kind of have to be at arm's length with each other.
Well, how long is your word good for?
I mean, that's really like another thing like my word
is good for 11 months.
So if 11 months passed, then okay, then you could not trust my word anymore.
-So we're unanimous. -Yes.
Court is back in session.
Parties are reminded that you're still under oath.
[Levy] Thank you, Cassandra.
All right, we've deliberated and we have reached a unanimous verdict.
The text messages make out the fact very clearly
that there was an expectation of repayment,
that this was a loan from the very beginning.
Mr. McDonald, doesn't diminish what, if anything,
you did during the relationship
to cover other expenses.
As far as the $1,525 was concerned, it was a loan, not a gift.
So it is the judgment of this court in favor of the plaintiff
for $1,525. Thank you both.
Thank you, Your Honor.
This case has concluded. All parties are excused.
She got what she wanted. I don't got to deal with it no more.
Who else is going to make sure you get your car out?
Like, if I didn't care, I wouldn't give him the money at all.
I know I spent about $4,000 on a girl.
Massaging, giving you flowers, you know,
doing things that you never had done before.
I spent so much on her. What she need it for?
She makes six figures.
I feel like it was love bombing, definitely at first.
For, like, the past couple weeks, her mother had passed.
I told her, you know, you can't use that as an excuse to just belittle people
and lash out of people. She didn't like that.
I mushed him. It wasn't like a hit.
I'm not abusive, I promise.
[narrator] Are you being sued?
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.
Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice.
[theme music playing]