[Acker] You went to the Defendant's salon.
The technician that day burned your face.
When she placed the wax on my face,
it was super, super hot.
Just went willy-nilly crazy with it.
You are a board-certified esthetician.
I make my money by how I look.
So, this is one face I can't order off Amazon.
You didn't get up and say, hey, what are you doing?
If she had done her prep, I wouldn't be lookin' like that.
You had no issues with letting her continue
and do this service on you.
It was voluntary.
[narrator] Now, on Tribunal Justice...
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Today's case was filed in Los Angeles, California.
Your Honor, this is Case #3097 on the calendar
in the matter of Valor vs. Ghale,
doing business as Roopa's Brow Lounge.
-Thank you, Byrd. -Mm-hmm.
Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
Ms. Valor, you went to the Defendant's salon
to get a facial hair removal service.
You were originally going to have your lips threaded.
That's a hair removal process, for people who aren't familiar,
but instead, the technician that day waxed your lip.
Correct.
And you allege that she burned your face.
-[Rumi] Correct. -Very, very badly.
Correct.
[Acker] You're now suing the Defendant who owns the salon
for $10,000; $5,000 for lost wages,
$5,000 in pain and suffering.
Ms. Ghale, you are the owner of Roopa's Brow Lounge.
The Plaintiff has been a long-time customer.
The technician who did service her did burn her.
You're actually not disputing that. But what you do suggest
is that the Plaintiff has not suffered permanent injuries,
and she's being excessive in her demand,
-uh, for relief. -Yes, Your Honor.
All righty. January eighth
was the day that you went for the service, ma'am, yes?
-[Rumi] Yes. -Tell me what you do for a living.
I'm an esthetician, board-certified state of California.
My specialty is anti-aging.
I'm 53 years old, and I make my money by how I look.
-Fifty-three, well done. -Yeah.
[Acker] So, you went to the salon.
Your normal esthetician, I think her name was Jasmine?
-Jasmine. -[Acker] Jasmine wasn't there.
-She was not. -Someone else serviced you that day.
I asked where Jasmine was. She said they only work one per day.
So, if she's there, Jasmine's not there. Jasmine's there, she's not there.
So, I told her I would like to get my lip threaded.
She said, I'll tell you what, let's wax,
'cause it will get more off, and it'll stay off a little bit longer.
She decided to take me to the back to do the waxing process.
Um, she didn't wash her hands.
She didn't prep me with aloe vera or baby powder.
She did not get me to sign a consent, asking me questions,
like, am I on any kind of antibiotics--
Did you raise any of these things with her? Did you say,
why don't you wash your hands, or did you wash your hands?
Absolutely not because when she laid me down,
and my face is up to the air, and she's beside me,
she could've pumped with sanitizer.
I didn't hear it, but you know, she could have.
One thing I know she did not do was test on her wrist, per state board,
the temperature of the wax. I know that for a fact.
And I don't know whether she used hard or soft wax.
So, I think she used the hard wax.
So, when she placed the wax on my face,
it was super, super hot.
And I told her, like, oh, that's pretty hot.
And she was like, yeah, you know, the warmer has been on,
and it's been on for a while. I'm like okay, it's still pretty hot.
[Acker] She puts the wax on your face.
-[Rumi] Mm-hmm, all over. -It is hot.
Even on both sides, almost on the lower jaw.
Just went all... Just went willy-nilly crazy with it.
[Acker] Over-applied the wax, according to you.
so you were burned.
But you still paid her, and you paid her $12.
-Seven dollars for the wax. -For the wax.
[Acker] Five dollars for a tip.
That's a remarkably low price, $7 for a lip wax?
I mean, my goodness. But didn't you dismiss the woman?
-I did. Yes. -[Acker] You fired her.
So, in any event, you pay the $7 fee, the $5 tip.
-Notice you're burning. -On fire.
Can we put up Exhibits One, and then Exhibit Two?
These are pictures of the Plaintiff's face
with the waxing burns.
[Rumi] So, everything under the nose is what the technician did.
[Acker] Okay. Now, I saw in your complaint
that you said that you went to the ER.
You were diagnosed with second-degree burns.
I did see that ER report.
I didn't see second-degree burns on the report. Did I miss that?
[Rumi] I don't know whether he put it on there or not.
[Acker] Those don't look like second-degree burns.
-But this one... -[Acker] Just a quick heads up,
I've had exactly the same thing happen to me.
-[Rumi] Okay. -Exactly.
When it happened to me, the person who I no longer see
was like, well, it must be your skin care regiment.
What do you use on your skin?
So, tell me what you use on your skin.
So, I use, every night Jamaican Black Castor Oil.
'Cause I've never had skin issues.
And every once in a while, I'll pop a vitamin C
or a vitamin E oil open and put it on my face.
-No retinoids... -No, none of that.
-no exfoliation? -No topicals.
No topicals. But I am a woman of a particular age.
So, this is what you call a mature skin.
But if she had done her prep, this wouldn't have happened to me at all.
If I'm 25 years old with great skin,
and melanin ain't poppin', I wouldn't be lookin' like that.
It's what you call melanin poppin' and doin' it's thing.
Let's... I want to see your face without the makeup.
-[Rumi] Don't make me take it off. -Byrd?
[Acker] You're suing. You say you've got these terrible injuries.
-I think we have to see it. -Absolutely.
[Acker] While she's doing that, Ms. Ghale,
you heard from the Plaintiff shortly after this incident?
What was your response?
At first, I do feel sorry for Ms. Rumi.
But I don't think the claim that she's... um, it's a lot
-for my small business... -[Acker] Originally it was $230,000.
$230,000, yes. That's a lot for my small business.
[Acker] That's a lot on a $12 service.
-Um, ma'am, can you come forward? -[Rumi] Sure.
Because I think I'd like to see your face.
[Rumi] Um, she has two businesses that I know of.
So, this is what we call hyperpigmentation.
-[Acker] I know. -Okay, just in case.
I know hyperpigmentation.
Hyperpigmentation is when... I think Judge DiMango
-might like to see. -Judges, I'm sorry.
So, hyperpigmentation, as the Plaintiff is explaining,
is what happens when the skin gets darker.
So, even the scars that are on the photo
are not visible to me.
Well, for one thing that helped that is how quick I was with post-care.
I literally did everything I was supposed to do--
Exactly. So, I also have some questions about your damage claim.
-[Rumi] Okay. -Because you claim that you lost work,
you lost a $30,000 mobile esthetician gig,
because your skin's required to be perfect.
-Correct. -I'm looking at your face right now,
I do not see any sign of those abrasions, not one.
Your skin looks fine now. Tell me why you lost $30,000.
So, I was going to New York to do an actual taping
for Chanel Lord, which is also someone who's associated with Zeus Network
and Debra Antney, Waka Flocka's mom,
showing this new cleanser that I was gonna show,
I could not have any makeup on.
And a very good toner they were gonna unveil for the summer.
And I worked very hard to get this gig.
[Acker] But part of any esthetician's great selling point is
they're able to say to a client, you know,
I had this thing happen to me, here's a product that will help.
So, I'm just not certain that the damages that you're seeking
are really proportionate to what happened to you.
Now, we have an expert in this case.
Could we please have our expert witness take the stand?
[dramatic music playing]
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
[DiMango] You, as a board-certified esthetician,
you certainly should've known what was going on
when you went in to have your lip waxed.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Rumi Valor is suing salon owner Roopa Ghale
for $10,000, claiming she suffered second-degree burns
from a lip-waxing treatment.
But Roopa says the injury was not serious,
and Rumi's claims of permanent damage are clearly exaggerated.
Do you swear to tell the truth in these matters?
-I do. -[Byrd] State your name and profession.
I'm Dr. Zoe Indigo, MD. I'm a board-certified dermatologist
and a diplomat of the American Academy of Dermatology.
And how long have you been a dermatologist?
I've been practicing medicine for over five years.
I completed my dermatology residency at UCLA.
So, I'm the expert, medical expert in all things skin, hair and nails.
You've got a demonstration that you're prepared to do
about how one should properly apply
and remove wax to the face.
-Yes. -Have at it.
In the documentation, she mentioned that the same tool
was used and dipped in several times
which is unhygienic and demonstrates an improper technique.
Also, she claimed that hard wax was used, which is especially important,
because it is not forgiving at all when it comes to temperature.
-Mm-hmm. -So, what you would want to do
is have multiple sticks, dip it only one time.
You'd want to apply it to the skin.
You would want to make sure the temperature's not too hot.
All of these things which sound like were not done, unfortunately.
So, any inflammation, whether that's a little sunburn,
or a bee sting, you know, that redness and dark skin,
you're at risk for more inflammation. And that inflammation
turns to hyperpigmentation.
So, it results in the skin,
not necessarily becoming red and inflamed, but darker
where the inflammation or the trauma took place.
Exactly. And that can become permanent.
[Acker] Thank you, Doctor. So, Ms. Valor,
you gotta explain to me how you originally came up
with a settlement demand of $230,000 on a $12 service.
So, as I said earlier, I make my money by how I look.
So, this is one face I can't order off Amazon.
So, the basis for that, if I start here,
then I got her attention.
So, that would hopefully prompt her to be aggressive
and reach out to me. Hey, Rumi, I understand you had to go to the ER.
She never did say anything.
-[Acker] Hold that thought. -Okay.
It could prompt her to pay attention, or really want to fight.
When you feel like somebody's taking advantage,
sometimes it can really push you to respond.
-Judge DiMango. -All right.
Well, I, too, have had wax hair removals on legs, arms, etc.
So, I'm kinda familiar myself with the procedure.
And if I'm familiar with it, then you, as a board-certified esthetician,
-Mm-hmm. -you certainly should've known
what was going on when you went in to have your lip waxed.
So, I'm troubled by the fact that knowing what you know,
you didn't get up and say, hey, what are you doing? Don't do that.
After the hot wax is on, Judge...
No, no. You knew right away. You talked about her washing her hands.
You were talking about a lot of things. You knew right off the bat
that this was not according to industry standards.
I also said, she could've pumped with some hand sanitizer.
[DiMango] But the point is, you're there, accepting what's happening.
And then, as an aftermath, you want to say,
well, I looked, and then it looked dirty, and I noticed
that she was doing this and that. I really think you had an obligation...
I really think you had an obligation, in your position, especially,
to say, hey, this is not going the way I have been trained,
and I'm getting up. I have an issue with that, number one.
Number two, can we bring the photograph up again?
I'm gonna ask you, Doctor,
would those constitute second-degree burns?
[Dr. Zoe] No, there's no ulceration.
[DiMango] It's not in the medical record, either,
or it would've been stated. I'm gonna ask you
if you will actually look at her lip
and describe to us what you noticed about her face and skin?
May I take a look? This is a dermatoscope.
It allows me to take a look at the skin on a magnified layer.
Like a Wood's lamp?
No, not exactly like a Wood's lamp, but I do have a Wood's lamp.
-Okay. -We'll take a look at that, as well.
This allows me to see the pigmentation.
I do see here, under the nose, there is a hyperpigmented patch.
-Go ahead and relax. -Okay.
So, I am appreciating, though subtle, some hyperpigmentation patches here.
-Okay, thank you. -[Dr. Zoe] Thank you.
So, do you want to describe her face and skin?
So, when we look with the naked eye, it's very subtle.
The average person wouldn't even see these sort of changes in the skin.
But when I look with my Wood's lamp, which allows me
to really see the subtleties and differences
in the pigmentation concentration,
I can see some corresponding areas of hyperpigmentation.
Now, even in a properly applied waxing, could people get hyperpigmentation, etc.?
Absolutely. Skin of color is so sensitive
to any sort of inflammation. Even when done in the perfect setting--
So generally, it's an assumption of a risk that someone would take
when having any sort of treatments such as that to the skin?
But what would you have been willing to do, ma'am,
for her if she did come to see you?
[Roopa] I thought to take her to the clinic, actually.
I did text her on 10th of January.
You wanted to take her to the clinic yourself to see what the issues were.
-Yes, yes. -[DiMango] All right, one other thing.
Did you ever have any waxing done before? Just your eyebrows you said?
I have wax, both hard and soft, used before on my entire body.
This time, I'm assuming it was hard. I don't know what it was in there.
Well, was it a pot that she dipped in with a honeybee?
[Rumi] It was a honeypot like that. I don't know what...
I'm fascinated at the fact that with all your expertise,
you had no idea what was going on around you.
When you go into a professional lounge bar or professional brow lounge,
you're supposed to trust the people that's there.
Let me just say something.
If you had something happen to you today and you went into a doctor's office,
the ER, and you're sitting there getting a service done,
would you stop and ask the doctor to please show you his credentials?
Wait, let me tell you. You're asking the wrong person.
You have to stop. Because when I go to the doctor,
I look up on the wall. I want to see where he, she went to school.
-And Roopa's name was there. -[DiMango] When I get my nails done,
I look to see whether or not... You don't want to hear the answer, do you?
-Yes, I do. -'Cause you asked me a question,
-I do check. Thank you. Judge Levy. -I did see...
-But I didn't see the other lady. -[Levy] Ms. Valor.
-You are a board-certified esthetician. -I am.
[Levy] How long was that board certification?
[Rumi] Sixteen months.
[Levy] And during your training, those 16 months,
you learned that failure to follow certain safety protocols
puts you and your business at risk for civil suits.
-Could be. -[Levy] So, you knew
when you went to the Defendant's shop,
-proper protocols were not followed. -Mm-hmm.
You knew, based upon your training, as you just testified,
that it opened her up to civil liability.
[dramatic music playing]
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice...
The state board called me a week and a half later
and told me over the phone that Roopa told them
she didn't know the employee was even practicing over there.
She had no idea.
[theme music playing]
[narrator] Rumi Valor says salon owner Roopa Ghale
owes her $10,000 after a lip-waxing treatment
left her permanently scarred. But Roopa says the injury was minor,
and Rumi's just taking advantage of the situation.
So, with respect to these second-degree burns.
You go to the service on January eighth.
-Right? -January the eighth.
You wanted to look your best for this gig that you were doing
between January 10th and January 17th, correct?
-Correct. -[Levy] Let's put up, uh, #06.
This is the esthetician's service agreement you provided us with.
-[Rumi] Correct. -[Levy] Right?
So, what this says is that two days after you were gonna get this service,
where you needed to look your best,
you allowed yourself to be seen by someone who you've never seen before.
-Correct. -[Levy] True?
And someone who you know, when you first walked in,
-did not follow proper protocol. -The wax was too hot.
Once it got on my face.
I didn't put my finger in the pot and test it.
Okay. So, since this is so important to you,
-let me just break it down. -Okay.
[Levy] You had no issues with letting her continue
and do this service on you.
[Rumi] The wax has to come off. It was too hot.
[Levy] You had no issue at that time letting her do it to you.
I had no issue with her taking the wax off.
It was voluntary.
To walk into a certified shop, it was voluntary.
Everybody working there should be certified and follow protocol.
I should feel comfortable walking in.
I shouldn't be afraid and worried about the process.
[Levy] That is true. Everyone who works
should follow proper safety protocol, because that keeps clients safe.
Except, you allowed the person to do this to your face
who violated those protocols by never having you sign a consent form,
and never asking you for your medical history.
-Right? -Correct.
[Levy] So, when you go to the ER the next day
for these second-degree burns that you claim to have had...
#03, put it up.
This is the ER summary care report that you provided us there.
Show me on that document where it says you had second-degree burns.
-It's not on there. -[Levy] Good.
You also indicated that there was permanent skin damage, correct?
Correct.
[Levy] Where is the medical evidence
where you went to a doctor after the ER
who indicated that there was permanent damage caused by this treatment?
-I'm a board-certified esthetician. -[Levy] Stop.
Where is that evidence?
I'm a board-certified esthetician, so I know if it's permanent.
-I have melanistic skin... -Where is the evidence?
-I'm not gonna pay for laser treatments. -Where is...?
-You're lookin' at it right now. -[Levy] You get donut.
Thank you, I have nothing further.
-[Rumi] Okay, so... -Nothing, no, no.
-No questions. -[Acker] Doctor,
can you take the stand again, please?
When you examined the Plaintiff's skin, you said that you saw
some evidence of hyperpigmentation.
Did those patches of hyperpigmentation correlate with the abrasions,
or was it around the sort of lip and chin area, more generally?
The ones right under the nose do correlate with the erosion there.
I would say, I do not see any evidence of any melasma,
which is one of the things that the Plaintiff complained about,
uh, as permanent damage.
And the patches of hyperpigmentation that you did witness,
and that you do believe correspond to the burns or abrasions,
how might those be treated in order to correct them?
Certainly. So, hyperpigmentation can be treated topically,
like hydroquinone, kojic acid, ascorbic acid, vitamin C, retinols.
It can also be treated with chemical peels.
It can be treated with laser therapy, as well.
Can you tell us how much you charge in your practice
for, say, a series of treatments to repair a scar or a hyperpigmentation,
or the Plaintiff's skin, to be more precise?
In this case, they're localized lesions, it's not a whole face treatment,
would typically range from $500 to $1,000 per treatment.
[Acker] And how many treatments?
We always recommend a series of three,
knowing that we can't guarantee the response of the skin.
So to be prepared to do additional treatments.
-[Acker] All right, thank you. Ms. Valor. -Yes.
[Acker] I think, had you said to her, for instance,
you know what, I looked at a series of laser treatments,
-Right. -[Acker] this is what it's gonna cost
to do it, I'd like you to pay me for that laser.
Why didn't you do that?
After I reached out to her the first time,
and she didn't act like she even cared,
I just went for... I was not gonna deal with it.
I didn't see anything in this record, any of her communications,
that suggested that she just told you to go pound sand.
What was your initial text, ma'am?
-That was on the next day... -The next day.
-'Cause she came in on the 8th. -Yes.
[Acker] According to you, this text was on the 9th.
-And this is before the $230,000 demand. -Yes, ma'am.
[Acker] Here, I'm gonna read it. "Oh, my God!
I'm really sorry you had with us..." I think you mean that experience,
"and apologize that you were not treated with the care and had a bad experience.
I'm going to talk about this issue with her,
as it shows how unprofessional we are.
Please accept credit for the next time.
And I hope that you forgive us this time,
and much, much apologies, and thank you for letting me know."
-The next day is the 10th. -Tenth.
And the Plaintiff's response is, "Hey, my face looks so bad.
I would've thought you would've checked on me.
This is not going to end well."
The Defendant: "I know, and I really feel you.
Let me know how I can help you, or if you would like
to come tomorrow after 2:00 so that we can see what we can do.
Please, I really feel bad, and my heartfelt apologies
how she handled you. I'm so, so sorry."
How on Earth do you glean from that that she didn't care about you?
Can I please speak?
State board, I called them immediately.
As soon as state board saw those pictures, they was there in four days.
State board called me a week and a half later
and told me over the phone, and you guys have the actual report,
that Roopa told them she didn't know the employee
was even practicing over there. She had no idea.
So, my thing is this. Either her practice,
for not following state board
and having people certified in her actual establishment,
was not followed. Or she did not tell the truth to state board.
[Acker] I'm good. Thank you, Judge.
I don't have anything further. We're going to retire to deliberate.
Thank you for your time.
[Byrd] Court now stands in recess.
This case will be recalled. Parties are excused for the time being.
[dramatic music playing]
It's probably fair to say that we all had some issues
with at least parts of her testimony.
But I think she's entitled to something.
And again, remember the dermatologist testified
that any sort of waxing, any kind of threading,
especially with darker skin, can give rise to that hyperpigmentation.
But she did say that there were some areas,
there were some hyperpigmented patches that correlated with the abrasions.
You know, you still gotta treat it. And I would throw this out there,
I would propose an award of $500.
Her skin is scarred. Like, that is a fact.
We have expert testimony as to that.
We do, but we don't have expert testimony that this procedure did it.
So for me, I'm not convinced that this procedure
caused this kind of scarring. One, I don't even see that on her.
And in fact, she said it, she's 53 years old, so I can say it,
she's had these procedures, hair removal, goin' on a long time.
So, I'm not in a position based on her testimony
to want to award her anything.
I think Adam really does, though.
Zero, donut, nothin'.
Litigants gotta understand that when they file a lawsuit,
the most important thing is to be honest,
obviously, don't exaggerate,
and when it's your time to come to court,
to bring evidence that you claim supports your case.
Plaintiff consistently testified that she had second-degree burns.
And in my opinion, when you lie about the main issue of a case,
I take that testimony... boop, throw it right out the window.
I don't think the Plaintiff should get a nickel.
I was really basing my analysis less on the Plaintiff's testimony
and really on the experts.
I mean, we know it wasn't a second-degree burn.
I mean, that was a gross exaggeration.
But you know, I would still be willing, based on the expert's testimony
about the damage, and also what it would cost
to try to treat it, to give her $500. But I don't feel like
-there's any convincing either of you. -No.
I think the remedy here occurred. I think the Defendant admitted,
apologized, and fired the woman, offered to give her some other sort of...
You won't even just give her her $12 back?
-I... -Donut.
-Give her her $12 back. -Donut.
All right. I think we're not unanimous, but we have a verdict.
[dramatic music playing]
Court is back in session. I remind parties you're still under oath.
-Thank you, Byrd. -Mm-hmm.
We've deliberated, and we've reached a verdict,
and our verdict is not unanimous.
Ms. Valor, I do believe you were injured.
And I was compelled by certain portions of the doctor's testimony
about the correspondence between some of the abrasions
and the discoloration that she now witnessed.
So, I was prepared to award you $500 based on also, on the doctor's testimony
about what it would cost to start to treat those injuries.
I, however, was out-voted. Neither of my colleagues believes
that you've met your burden of proof in this case.
Uh, Judge Levy really took issue with your lack of credibility
regarding certain of the damages,
specifically your contention that these were second-degree burns.
The gross exaggerations at the outset
moved him to not even see toward giving you $12.
'Cause I was like, maybe we could give her her money back.
But that lack of credibility really spoke volumes to him.
And same with Judge DiMango, who was also persuaded
by other portions of our expert's testimony
that spoke to how, even under the best of circumstances,
certain discoloration might still have been apparent.
So, unfortunately for you, the verdict of this court
that your complaint be dismissed,
I suppose the silver lining for you
is that you are a beautiful woman with great skin,
and celebrate that great skin. You're clearly taking great care of it.
But you will leave this court today with nothing.
That's the verdict of the court. Good luck to both of you.
-[gavel bangs] -[Byrd] This case is now concluded.
Parties are excused. You may step out.
I did realize the wax was very, very hot once it was on my face.
I did see it, but I don't think it's a permanent damage.
Just make sure I go to somebody who's board-certified.
Somebody that I've already looked and did research on.
Maybe Instagram and Yelp, make sure they don't have anybody
who did not receive services that they weren't happy with.
I did get rid of the employee.
[narrator] Are you being sued?
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.
Find us on social media @TribunalJustice.
[theme music playing]