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00:00:00,266 --> 00:00:02,767
[Acker]
You went to the Defendant's salon.

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00:00:02,834 --> 00:00:05,233
The technician that day
burned your face.

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00:00:05,300 --> 00:00:07,367
When she placed the wax on my face,

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00:00:07,433 --> 00:00:09,100
it was super, super hot.

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00:00:09,166 --> 00:00:10,867
Just went willy-nilly crazy with it.

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You are a board-certified esthetician.

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00:00:13,333 --> 00:00:15,066
I make my money by how I look.

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So, this is one face I can't order
off Amazon.

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You didn't get up and say,
hey, what are you doing?

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00:00:21,367 --> 00:00:24,233
If she had done her prep,
I wouldn't be lookin' like that.

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You had no issues
with letting her continue

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and do this service on you.

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It was voluntary.

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[narrator]
Now, on Tribunal Justice...

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[theme music playing]

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[narrator] Today's case
was filed in Los Angeles, California.

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Your Honor, this is Case #3097
on the calendar

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in the matter
of Valor vs. Ghale,

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doing business
as Roopa's Brow Lounge.

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-Thank you, Byrd.
-Mm-hmm.

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Parties have been sworn in.
You may be seated.

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Ms. Valor, you went
to the Defendant's salon

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to get a facial hair removal service.

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You were originally going
to have your lips threaded.

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That's a hair removal process,
for people who aren't familiar,

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but instead, the technician that day
waxed your lip.

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Correct.

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And you allege
that she burned your face.

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-[Rumi] Correct.
-Very, very badly.

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Correct.

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[Acker] You're now suing the Defendant
who owns the salon

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for $10,000;
$5,000 for lost wages,

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00:01:42,667 --> 00:01:45,433
$5,000 in pain and suffering.

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00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:50,734
Ms. Ghale, you are the owner
of Roopa's Brow Lounge.

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The Plaintiff has been
a long-time customer.

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The technician who did service her
did burn her.

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You're actually not disputing that.
But what you do suggest

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is that the Plaintiff
has not suffered permanent injuries,

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and she's being excessive
in her demand,

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-uh, for relief.
-Yes, Your Honor.

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00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:08,967
All righty. January eighth

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was the day that you went
for the service, ma'am, yes?

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-[Rumi] Yes.
-Tell me what you do for a living.

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00:02:13,667 --> 00:02:16,033
I'm an esthetician,
board-certified state of California.

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00:02:16,100 --> 00:02:17,466
My specialty is anti-aging.

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I'm 53 years old,
and I make my money by how I look.

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00:02:20,367 --> 00:02:21,834
-Fifty-three, well done.
-Yeah.

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00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:23,767
[Acker]
So, you went to the salon.

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00:02:23,834 --> 00:02:26,900
Your normal esthetician,
I think her name was Jasmine?

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00:02:26,966 --> 00:02:28,834
-Jasmine.
-[Acker] Jasmine wasn't there.

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00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:30,934
-She was not.
-Someone else serviced you that day.

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00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,567
I asked where Jasmine was.
She said they only work one per day.

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00:02:34,633 --> 00:02:37,600
So, if she's there, Jasmine's not there.
Jasmine's there, she's not there.

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00:02:37,667 --> 00:02:40,567
So, I told her I would like
to get my lip threaded.

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00:02:40,633 --> 00:02:43,567
She said, I'll tell you what,
let's wax,

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'cause it will get more off,
and it'll stay off a little bit longer.

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00:02:47,233 --> 00:02:50,867
She decided to take me to the back
to do the waxing process.

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00:02:50,934 --> 00:02:52,800
Um, she didn't wash her hands.

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00:02:52,867 --> 00:02:55,133
She didn't prep me
with aloe vera or baby powder.

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00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,400
She did not get me to sign a consent,
asking me questions,

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00:02:58,466 --> 00:03:01,600
like, am I on any kind of antibiotics--

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00:03:01,667 --> 00:03:04,467
Did you raise any of these things
with her? Did you say,

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00:03:04,533 --> 00:03:07,233
why don't you wash your hands,
or did you wash your hands?

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00:03:07,300 --> 00:03:09,967
Absolutely not
because when she laid me down,

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and my face is up to the air,
and she's beside me,

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she could've pumped with sanitizer.

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00:03:15,133 --> 00:03:17,934
I didn't hear it, but you know,
she could have.

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00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:23,000
One thing I know she did not do was
test on her wrist, per state board,

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00:03:23,066 --> 00:03:25,633
the temperature of the wax.
I know that for a fact.

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00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:28,533
And I don't know
whether she used hard or soft wax.

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So, I think she used the hard wax.

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So, when she placed the wax on my face,

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it was super, super hot.

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And I told her, like,
oh, that's pretty hot.

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00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,600
And she was like, yeah, you know,
the warmer has been on,

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00:03:41,667 --> 00:03:44,800
and it's been on for a while.
I'm like okay, it's still pretty hot.

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00:03:44,867 --> 00:03:46,767
[Acker]
She puts the wax on your face.

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00:03:46,834 --> 00:03:48,600
-[Rumi] Mm-hmm, all over.
-It is hot.

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Even on both sides,
almost on the lower jaw.

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Just went all...
Just went willy-nilly crazy with it.

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[Acker] Over-applied the wax,
according to you.

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so you were burned.

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00:03:57,567 --> 00:04:00,133
But you still paid her,
and you paid her $12.

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-Seven dollars for the wax.
-For the wax.

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[Acker]
Five dollars for a tip.

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00:04:03,633 --> 00:04:07,467
That's a remarkably low price,
$7 for a lip wax?

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00:04:07,533 --> 00:04:11,700
I mean, my goodness.
But didn't you dismiss the woman?

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00:04:11,767 --> 00:04:13,767
-I did. Yes.
-[Acker] You fired her.

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00:04:13,834 --> 00:04:17,867
So, in any event, you pay the $7 fee,
the $5 tip.

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00:04:17,934 --> 00:04:20,767
-Notice you're burning.
-On fire.

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00:04:20,834 --> 00:04:23,800
Can we put up Exhibits One,
and then Exhibit Two?

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00:04:23,867 --> 00:04:26,000
These are pictures
of the Plaintiff's face

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with the waxing burns.

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[Rumi] So, everything under the nose is
what the technician did.

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00:04:31,133 --> 00:04:33,734
[Acker]
Okay. Now, I saw in your complaint

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00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,600
that you said that you went to the ER.

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00:04:35,667 --> 00:04:37,467
You were diagnosed
with second-degree burns.

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00:04:37,533 --> 00:04:39,467
I did see that ER report.

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00:04:39,533 --> 00:04:42,367
I didn't see second-degree burns
on the report. Did I miss that?

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[Rumi] I don't know whether he put it
on there or not.

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00:04:45,066 --> 00:04:47,200
[Acker]
Those don't look like second-degree burns.

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00:04:47,266 --> 00:04:49,367
-But this one...
-[Acker] Just a quick heads up,

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I've had exactly the same thing
happen to me.

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00:04:51,967 --> 00:04:53,767
-[Rumi] Okay.
-Exactly.

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00:04:53,834 --> 00:04:57,533
When it happened to me,
the person who I no longer see

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00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,066
was like, well, it must be
your skin care regiment.

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00:05:00,133 --> 00:05:01,800
What do you use on your skin?

108
00:05:01,867 --> 00:05:03,867
So, tell me what you use on your skin.

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00:05:03,934 --> 00:05:07,533
So, I use, every night
Jamaican Black Castor Oil.

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00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,533
'Cause I've never had skin issues.

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00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,600
And every once in a while,
I'll pop a vitamin C

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00:05:12,667 --> 00:05:15,900
or a vitamin E oil open
and put it on my face.

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00:05:15,967 --> 00:05:17,667
-No retinoids...
-No, none of that.

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00:05:17,734 --> 00:05:19,433
-no exfoliation?
-No topicals.

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00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:22,800
No topicals. But I am a woman
of a particular age.

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00:05:22,867 --> 00:05:24,934
So, this is what you call
a mature skin.

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00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,066
But if she had done her prep,
this wouldn't have happened to me at all.

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If I'm 25 years old with great skin,

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00:05:30,066 --> 00:05:32,900
and melanin ain't poppin',
I wouldn't be lookin' like that.

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It's what you call melanin poppin'
and doin' it's thing.

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Let's... I want to see your face
without the makeup.

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-[Rumi] Don't make me take it off.
-Byrd?

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00:05:40,266 --> 00:05:44,100
[Acker] You're suing. You say
you've got these terrible injuries.

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-I think we have to see it.
-Absolutely.

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00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:47,900
[Acker]
While she's doing that, Ms. Ghale,

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00:05:47,967 --> 00:05:51,767
you heard from the Plaintiff
shortly after this incident?

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00:05:51,834 --> 00:05:53,734
What was your response?

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00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,700
At first, I do feel sorry for Ms. Rumi.

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00:05:56,767 --> 00:06:02,800
But I don't think the claim that she's...
um, it's a lot

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00:06:02,867 --> 00:06:07,100
-for my small business...
-[Acker] Originally it was $230,000.

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00:06:07,166 --> 00:06:10,767
$230,000, yes.
That's a lot for my small business.

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00:06:10,834 --> 00:06:12,734
[Acker]
That's a lot on a $12 service.

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00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,066
-Um, ma'am, can you come forward?
-[Rumi] Sure.

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00:06:15,133 --> 00:06:17,467
Because I think I'd like to see your face.

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00:06:17,533 --> 00:06:19,967
[Rumi] Um,
she has two businesses that I know of.

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So, this is what we call
hyperpigmentation.

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00:06:22,567 --> 00:06:24,834
-[Acker] I know.
-Okay, just in case.

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00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:26,500
I know hyperpigmentation.

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00:06:26,567 --> 00:06:29,900
Hyperpigmentation is when...
I think Judge DiMango

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00:06:29,967 --> 00:06:31,967
-might like to see.
-Judges, I'm sorry.

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00:06:32,033 --> 00:06:35,600
So, hyperpigmentation,
as the Plaintiff is explaining,

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00:06:35,667 --> 00:06:38,066
is what happens
when the skin gets darker.

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00:06:38,133 --> 00:06:42,133
So, even the scars
that are on the photo

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00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,834
are not visible to me.

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00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:48,767
Well, for one thing that helped that
is how quick I was with post-care.

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00:06:48,834 --> 00:06:51,200
I literally did everything
I was supposed to do--

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00:06:51,266 --> 00:06:56,233
Exactly. So, I also have some questions
about your damage claim.

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00:06:56,300 --> 00:06:59,767
-[Rumi] Okay.
-Because you claim that you lost work,

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00:06:59,834 --> 00:07:02,667
you lost a $30,000
mobile esthetician gig,

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00:07:02,734 --> 00:07:05,033
because your skin's required
to be perfect.

151
00:07:05,100 --> 00:07:07,567
-Correct.
-I'm looking at your face right now,

152
00:07:07,633 --> 00:07:10,900
I do not see any sign of those abrasions,
not one.

153
00:07:10,967 --> 00:07:14,734
Your skin looks fine now.
Tell me why you lost $30,000.

154
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,867
So, I was going to New York
to do an actual taping

155
00:07:18,934 --> 00:07:22,533
for Chanel Lord, which is also someone
who's associated with Zeus Network

156
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,433
and Debra Antney, Waka Flocka's mom,

157
00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:26,734
showing this new cleanser
that I was gonna show,

158
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,433
I could not have any makeup on.

159
00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:31,934
And a very good toner
they were gonna unveil for the summer.

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00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,467
And I worked very hard to get this gig.

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00:07:34,533 --> 00:07:39,633
[Acker] But part of any esthetician's
great selling point is

162
00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:42,033
they're able to say to a client,
you know,

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00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:45,233
I had this thing happen to me,
here's a product that will help.

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00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:49,767
So, I'm just not certain
that the damages that you're seeking

165
00:07:49,834 --> 00:07:52,500
are really proportionate
to what happened to you.

166
00:07:52,567 --> 00:07:54,567
Now, we have an expert in this case.

167
00:07:54,633 --> 00:07:57,133
Could we please have our expert witness
take the stand?

168
00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:58,767
[dramatic music playing]

169
00:07:58,834 --> 00:08:01,367
[narrator]
Coming up on Tribunal Justice...

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00:08:01,433 --> 00:08:03,967
[DiMango]
You, as a board-certified esthetician,

171
00:08:04,033 --> 00:08:06,767
you certainly should've known
what was going on

172
00:08:06,834 --> 00:08:08,800
when you went in
to have your lip waxed.

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00:08:12,066 --> 00:08:13,667
[theme music playing]

174
00:08:13,734 --> 00:08:17,066
[narrator] Rumi Valor
is suing salon owner Roopa Ghale

175
00:08:17,133 --> 00:08:20,600
for $10,000, claiming
she suffered second-degree burns

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00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:22,433
from a lip-waxing treatment.

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00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:24,734
But Roopa says the injury
was not serious,

178
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,767
and Rumi's claims of permanent damage
are clearly exaggerated.

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00:08:28,834 --> 00:08:30,967
Do you swear to tell the truth
in these matters?

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00:08:31,033 --> 00:08:33,200
-I do.
-[Byrd] State your name and profession.

181
00:08:33,265 --> 00:08:37,066
I'm Dr. Zoe Indigo, MD.
I'm a board-certified dermatologist

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00:08:37,133 --> 00:08:39,967
and a diplomat
of the American Academy of Dermatology.

183
00:08:40,033 --> 00:08:42,834
And how long have you been
a dermatologist?

184
00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:45,367
I've been practicing medicine
for over five years.

185
00:08:45,433 --> 00:08:48,600
I completed my dermatology residency
at UCLA.

186
00:08:48,667 --> 00:08:53,133
So, I'm the expert, medical expert
in all things skin, hair and nails.

187
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,200
You've got a demonstration
that you're prepared to do

188
00:08:56,266 --> 00:09:00,300
about how one should properly apply

189
00:09:00,367 --> 00:09:02,533
and remove wax to the face.

190
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,133
-Yes.
-Have at it.

191
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,667
In the documentation,
she mentioned that the same tool

192
00:09:08,734 --> 00:09:10,700
was used and dipped in several times

193
00:09:10,767 --> 00:09:14,400
which is unhygienic
and demonstrates an improper technique.

194
00:09:14,467 --> 00:09:20,066
Also, she claimed that hard wax was used,
which is especially important,

195
00:09:20,133 --> 00:09:24,066
because it is not forgiving at all
when it comes to temperature.

196
00:09:24,133 --> 00:09:26,100
-Mm-hmm.
-So, what you would want to do

197
00:09:26,166 --> 00:09:29,834
is have multiple sticks,
dip it only one time.

198
00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:31,900
You'd want to apply it to the skin.

199
00:09:31,967 --> 00:09:34,567
You would want to make sure
the temperature's not too hot.

200
00:09:34,633 --> 00:09:37,533
All of these things which sound like
were not done, unfortunately.

201
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,633
So, any inflammation,
whether that's a little sunburn,

202
00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:45,133
or a bee sting, you know,
that redness and dark skin,

203
00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,633
you're at risk for more inflammation.
And that inflammation

204
00:09:48,700 --> 00:09:50,165
turns to hyperpigmentation.

205
00:09:50,233 --> 00:09:52,000
So, it results in the skin,

206
00:09:52,066 --> 00:09:55,467
not necessarily becoming red and inflamed,
but darker

207
00:09:55,533 --> 00:09:58,500
where the inflammation
or the trauma took place.

208
00:09:58,567 --> 00:10:00,600
Exactly. And that can become permanent.

209
00:10:00,667 --> 00:10:02,934
[Acker] Thank you, Doctor.
So, Ms. Valor,

210
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,533
you gotta explain to me
how you originally came up

211
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:12,200
with a settlement demand
of $230,000 on a $12 service.

212
00:10:12,266 --> 00:10:15,066
So, as I said earlier,
I make my money by how I look.

213
00:10:15,133 --> 00:10:17,867
So, this is one face
I can't order off Amazon.

214
00:10:17,934 --> 00:10:20,066
So, the basis for that,
if I start here,

215
00:10:20,133 --> 00:10:21,900
then I got her attention.

216
00:10:21,967 --> 00:10:24,934
So, that would hopefully prompt her
to be aggressive

217
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,433
and reach out to me. Hey, Rumi,
I understand you had to go to the ER.

218
00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:29,834
She never did say anything.

219
00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:31,467
-[Acker] Hold that thought.
-Okay.

220
00:10:31,533 --> 00:10:36,033
It could prompt her to pay attention,
or really want to fight.

221
00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:38,266
When you feel
like somebody's taking advantage,

222
00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:40,367
sometimes it can really push you
to respond.

223
00:10:40,433 --> 00:10:42,133
-Judge DiMango.
-All right.

224
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,233
Well, I, too, have had wax hair removals
on legs, arms, etc.

225
00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:50,100
So, I'm kinda familiar myself
with the procedure.

226
00:10:50,165 --> 00:10:54,834
And if I'm familiar with it, then you,
as a board-certified esthetician,

227
00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:56,867
-Mm-hmm.
-you certainly should've known

228
00:10:56,934 --> 00:11:00,367
what was going on
when you went in to have your lip waxed.

229
00:11:00,433 --> 00:11:04,200
So, I'm troubled by the fact
that knowing what you know,

230
00:11:04,266 --> 00:11:06,834
you didn't get up and say,
hey, what are you doing? Don't do that.

231
00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:08,834
After the hot wax is on, Judge...

232
00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:12,633
No, no. You knew right away.
You talked about her washing her hands.

233
00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:15,467
You were talking about a lot of things.
You knew right off the bat

234
00:11:15,533 --> 00:11:18,567
that this was not according
to industry standards.

235
00:11:18,633 --> 00:11:21,100
I also said, she could've pumped
with some hand sanitizer.

236
00:11:21,166 --> 00:11:24,400
[DiMango] But the point is,
you're there, accepting what's happening.

237
00:11:24,467 --> 00:11:27,567
And then, as an aftermath,
you want to say,

238
00:11:27,633 --> 00:11:31,000
well, I looked, and then it looked dirty,
and I noticed

239
00:11:31,066 --> 00:11:34,266
that she was doing this and that.
I really think you had an obligation...

240
00:11:34,333 --> 00:11:37,433
I really think you had an obligation,
in your position, especially,

241
00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:41,567
to say, hey, this is not going the way
I have been trained,

242
00:11:41,633 --> 00:11:45,300
and I'm getting up.
I have an issue with that, number one.

243
00:11:45,367 --> 00:11:48,333
Number two,
can we bring the photograph up again?

244
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,200
I'm gonna ask you, Doctor,

245
00:11:50,266 --> 00:11:52,300
would those constitute
second-degree burns?

246
00:11:52,367 --> 00:11:54,000
[Dr. Zoe]
No, there's no ulceration.

247
00:11:54,066 --> 00:11:56,300
[DiMango]
It's not in the medical record, either,

248
00:11:56,367 --> 00:11:58,934
or it would've been stated.
I'm gonna ask you

249
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,300
if you will actually look at her lip

250
00:12:01,367 --> 00:12:04,100
and describe to us what you noticed
about her face and skin?

251
00:12:04,166 --> 00:12:06,300
May I take a look?
This is a dermatoscope.

252
00:12:06,367 --> 00:12:10,567
It allows me to take a look at the skin
on a magnified layer.

253
00:12:10,633 --> 00:12:12,000
Like a Wood's lamp?

254
00:12:12,066 --> 00:12:16,066
No, not exactly like a Wood's lamp,
but I do have a Wood's lamp.

255
00:12:16,133 --> 00:12:18,000
-Okay.
-We'll take a look at that, as well.

256
00:12:18,066 --> 00:12:20,400
This allows me to see the pigmentation.

257
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,600
I do see here, under the nose,
there is a hyperpigmented patch.

258
00:12:25,667 --> 00:12:27,533
-Go ahead and relax.
-Okay.

259
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:33,033
So, I am appreciating, though subtle,
some hyperpigmentation patches here.

260
00:12:33,767 --> 00:12:35,133
-Okay, thank you.
-[Dr. Zoe] Thank you.

261
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,500
So, do you want
to describe her face and skin?

262
00:12:37,567 --> 00:12:40,467
So, when we look with the naked eye,
it's very subtle.

263
00:12:40,533 --> 00:12:44,300
The average person wouldn't even see
these sort of changes in the skin.

264
00:12:44,367 --> 00:12:46,633
But when I look with my Wood's lamp,
which allows me

265
00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:49,000
to really see the subtleties
and differences

266
00:12:49,066 --> 00:12:51,367
in the pigmentation concentration,

267
00:12:51,433 --> 00:12:55,233
I can see some corresponding areas
of hyperpigmentation.

268
00:12:55,300 --> 00:13:00,367
Now, even in a properly applied waxing,
could people get hyperpigmentation, etc.?

269
00:13:00,433 --> 00:13:03,133
Absolutely.
Skin of color is so sensitive

270
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,700
to any sort of inflammation.
Even when done in the perfect setting--

271
00:13:06,767 --> 00:13:09,133
So generally, it's an assumption of a risk
that someone would take

272
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,400
when having any sort of treatments
such as that to the skin?

273
00:13:12,467 --> 00:13:14,900
But what would you
have been willing to do, ma'am,

274
00:13:14,967 --> 00:13:16,800
for her if she did come to see you?

275
00:13:16,867 --> 00:13:19,667
[Roopa] I thought
to take her to the clinic, actually.

276
00:13:19,734 --> 00:13:22,800
I did text her on 10th of January.

277
00:13:22,867 --> 00:13:26,000
You wanted to take her to the clinic
yourself to see what the issues were.

278
00:13:26,066 --> 00:13:28,100
-Yes, yes.
-[DiMango] All right, one other thing.

279
00:13:28,166 --> 00:13:31,533
Did you ever have any waxing done before?
Just your eyebrows you said?

280
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,233
I have wax, both hard and soft,
used before on my entire body.

281
00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:37,800
This time, I'm assuming it was hard.
I don't know what it was in there.

282
00:13:37,867 --> 00:13:39,867
Well, was it a pot that she dipped in
with a honeybee?

283
00:13:39,934 --> 00:13:42,333
[Rumi] It was a honeypot like that.
I don't know what...

284
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,233
I'm fascinated at the fact
that with all your expertise,

285
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:47,333
you had no idea
what was going on around you.

286
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,100
When you go into a professional lounge bar
or professional brow lounge,

287
00:13:51,165 --> 00:13:53,033
you're supposed
to trust the people that's there.

288
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,700
Let me just say something.

289
00:13:54,767 --> 00:13:58,300
If you had something happen to you today
and you went into a doctor's office,

290
00:13:58,367 --> 00:14:00,767
the ER, and you're sitting there
getting a service done,

291
00:14:00,834 --> 00:14:03,633
would you stop and ask the doctor
to please show you his credentials?

292
00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,700
Wait, let me tell you.
You're asking the wrong person.

293
00:14:06,767 --> 00:14:09,400
You have to stop.
Because when I go to the doctor,

294
00:14:09,467 --> 00:14:13,467
I look up on the wall. I want to see
where he, she went to school.

295
00:14:13,533 --> 00:14:15,834
-And Roopa's name was there.
-[DiMango] When I get my nails done,

296
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:19,166
I look to see whether or not...
You don't want to hear the answer, do you?

297
00:14:19,233 --> 00:14:20,934
-Yes, I do.
-'Cause you asked me a question,

298
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,166
-I do check. Thank you. Judge Levy.
-I did see...

299
00:14:23,233 --> 00:14:25,467
-But I didn't see the other lady.
-[Levy] Ms. Valor.

300
00:14:25,533 --> 00:14:29,133
-You are a board-certified esthetician.
-I am.

301
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,266
[Levy]
How long was that board certification?

302
00:14:31,333 --> 00:14:32,533
[Rumi]
Sixteen months.

303
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,900
[Levy] And during your training,
those 16 months,

304
00:14:35,967 --> 00:14:39,734
you learned that failure
to follow certain safety protocols

305
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,500
puts you and your business at risk
for civil suits.

306
00:14:43,567 --> 00:14:45,000
-Could be.
-[Levy] So, you knew

307
00:14:45,066 --> 00:14:47,367
when you went to the Defendant's shop,

308
00:14:47,433 --> 00:14:50,867
-proper protocols were not followed.
-Mm-hmm.

309
00:14:50,934 --> 00:14:54,300
You knew, based upon your training,
as you just testified,

310
00:14:54,367 --> 00:14:57,433
that it opened her up to civil liability.

311
00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,200
[dramatic music playing]

312
00:14:59,266 --> 00:15:01,867
[narrator]
Coming up on Tribunal Justice...

313
00:15:01,934 --> 00:15:04,033
The state board called me
a week and a half later

314
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:06,633
and told me over the phone
that Roopa told them

315
00:15:06,700 --> 00:15:09,300
she didn't know the employee
was even practicing over there.

316
00:15:09,367 --> 00:15:10,367
She had no idea.

317
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:14,900
[theme music playing]

318
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,033
[narrator] Rumi Valor
says salon owner Roopa Ghale

319
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,333
owes her $10,000
after a lip-waxing treatment

320
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,166
left her permanently scarred.
But Roopa says the injury was minor,

321
00:15:25,233 --> 00:15:28,300
and Rumi's just taking advantage
of the situation.

322
00:15:28,367 --> 00:15:31,133
So, with respect
to these second-degree burns.

323
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,867
You go to the service on January eighth.

324
00:15:33,934 --> 00:15:35,800
-Right?
-January the eighth.

325
00:15:35,867 --> 00:15:38,533
You wanted to look your best
for this gig that you were doing

326
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,467
between January 10th
and January 17th, correct?

327
00:15:41,533 --> 00:15:44,233
-Correct.
-[Levy] Let's put up, uh, #06.

328
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,734
This is the esthetician's
service agreement you provided us with.

329
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:48,967
-[Rumi] Correct.
-[Levy] Right?

330
00:15:49,033 --> 00:15:53,667
So, what this says is that two days after
you were gonna get this service,

331
00:15:53,734 --> 00:15:56,000
where you needed to look your best,

332
00:15:56,066 --> 00:16:01,033
you allowed yourself to be seen by someone
who you've never seen before.

333
00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:02,467
-Correct.
-[Levy] True?

334
00:16:02,533 --> 00:16:04,800
And someone who you know,
when you first walked in,

335
00:16:04,867 --> 00:16:07,967
-did not follow proper protocol.
-The wax was too hot.

336
00:16:08,033 --> 00:16:09,233
Once it got on my face.

337
00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:11,400
I didn't put my finger in the pot
and test it.

338
00:16:11,467 --> 00:16:14,367
Okay. So, since this is
so important to you,

339
00:16:14,433 --> 00:16:16,166
-let me just break it down.
-Okay.

340
00:16:16,233 --> 00:16:19,166
[Levy] You had no issues
with letting her continue

341
00:16:19,233 --> 00:16:20,333
and do this service on you.

342
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,767
[Rumi] The wax has to come off.
It was too hot.

343
00:16:22,834 --> 00:16:26,233
[Levy] You had no issue at that time
letting her do it to you.

344
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:30,133
I had no issue
with her taking the wax off.

345
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,266
It was voluntary.

346
00:16:32,333 --> 00:16:36,333
To walk into a certified shop,
it was voluntary.

347
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,400
Everybody working there
should be certified and follow protocol.

348
00:16:39,467 --> 00:16:40,900
I should feel comfortable walking in.

349
00:16:40,967 --> 00:16:43,100
I shouldn't be afraid and worried
about the process.

350
00:16:43,165 --> 00:16:44,800
[Levy] That is true.
Everyone who works

351
00:16:44,867 --> 00:16:49,767
should follow proper safety protocol,
because that keeps clients safe.

352
00:16:49,834 --> 00:16:52,834
Except, you allowed the person
to do this to your face

353
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:57,033
who violated those protocols
by never having you sign a consent form,

354
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,767
and never asking you
for your medical history.

355
00:16:59,834 --> 00:17:01,633
-Right?
-Correct.

356
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,733
[Levy] So,
when you go to the ER the next day

357
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,000
for these second-degree burns
that you claim to have had...

358
00:17:08,066 --> 00:17:09,733
#03, put it up.

359
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,967
This is the ER summary care report
that you provided us there.

360
00:17:14,032 --> 00:17:18,266
Show me on that document
where it says you had second-degree burns.

361
00:17:18,333 --> 00:17:20,000
-It's not on there.
-[Levy] Good.

362
00:17:20,066 --> 00:17:22,800
You also indicated that there was
permanent skin damage, correct?

363
00:17:22,867 --> 00:17:24,000
Correct.

364
00:17:24,066 --> 00:17:26,032
[Levy]
Where is the medical evidence

365
00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:29,333
where you went to a doctor
after the ER

366
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,133
who indicated that there was
permanent damage caused by this treatment?

367
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,400
-I'm a board-certified esthetician.
-[Levy] Stop.

368
00:17:36,467 --> 00:17:38,100
Where is that evidence?

369
00:17:38,166 --> 00:17:41,333
I'm a board-certified esthetician,
so I know if it's permanent.

370
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,633
-I have melanistic skin...
-Where is the evidence?

371
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:45,767
-I'm not gonna pay for laser treatments.
-Where is...?

372
00:17:45,834 --> 00:17:48,433
-You're lookin' at it right now.
-[Levy] You get donut.

373
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:49,900
Thank you, I have nothing further.

374
00:17:49,967 --> 00:17:51,700
-[Rumi] Okay, so...
-Nothing, no, no.

375
00:17:51,767 --> 00:17:53,567
-No questions.
-[Acker] Doctor,

376
00:17:53,633 --> 00:17:55,800
can you take the stand again, please?

377
00:17:55,867 --> 00:17:59,934
When you examined the Plaintiff's skin,
you said that you saw

378
00:18:00,066 --> 00:18:02,600
some evidence of hyperpigmentation.

379
00:18:02,667 --> 00:18:07,033
Did those patches of hyperpigmentation
correlate with the abrasions,

380
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:11,400
or was it around the sort of lip
and chin area, more generally?

381
00:18:11,467 --> 00:18:17,166
The ones right under the nose
do correlate with the erosion there.

382
00:18:17,233 --> 00:18:22,133
I would say, I do not see
any evidence of any melasma,

383
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,400
which is one of the things
that the Plaintiff complained about,

384
00:18:26,467 --> 00:18:28,533
uh, as permanent damage.

385
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,333
And the patches of hyperpigmentation
that you did witness,

386
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,633
and that you do believe
correspond to the burns or abrasions,

387
00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:42,200
how might those be treated
in order to correct them?

388
00:18:42,266 --> 00:18:46,367
Certainly. So, hyperpigmentation
can be treated topically,

389
00:18:46,433 --> 00:18:52,333
like hydroquinone, kojic acid,
ascorbic acid, vitamin C, retinols.

390
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,200
It can also be treated
with chemical peels.

391
00:18:55,266 --> 00:18:57,834
It can be treated with laser therapy,
as well.

392
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:01,066
Can you tell us how much you charge
in your practice

393
00:19:01,133 --> 00:19:06,233
for, say, a series of treatments
to repair a scar or a hyperpigmentation,

394
00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:08,734
or the Plaintiff's skin,
to be more precise?

395
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,100
In this case, they're localized lesions,
it's not a whole face treatment,

396
00:19:13,166 --> 00:19:17,667
would typically range
from $500 to $1,000 per treatment.

397
00:19:17,734 --> 00:19:19,266
[Acker]
And how many treatments?

398
00:19:19,333 --> 00:19:21,734
We always recommend a series of three,

399
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,867
knowing that we can't guarantee
the response of the skin.

400
00:19:24,934 --> 00:19:27,100
So to be prepared
to do additional treatments.

401
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:30,033
-[Acker] All right, thank you. Ms. Valor.
-Yes.

402
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,867
[Acker] I think, had you said to her,
for instance,

403
00:19:32,934 --> 00:19:35,734
you know what, I looked
at a series of laser treatments,

404
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,934
-Right.
-[Acker] this is what it's gonna cost

405
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,467
to do it, I'd like you
to pay me for that laser.

406
00:19:40,533 --> 00:19:41,667
Why didn't you do that?

407
00:19:41,734 --> 00:19:43,800
After I reached out to her
the first time,

408
00:19:43,867 --> 00:19:46,400
and she didn't act like she even cared,

409
00:19:46,467 --> 00:19:48,967
I just went for...
I was not gonna deal with it.

410
00:19:49,033 --> 00:19:52,600
I didn't see anything in this record,
any of her communications,

411
00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:56,166
that suggested
that she just told you to go pound sand.

412
00:19:56,233 --> 00:19:58,233
What was your initial text, ma'am?

413
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,533
-That was on the next day...
-The next day.

414
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,333
-'Cause she came in on the 8th.
-Yes.

415
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,467
[Acker] According to you,
this text was on the 9th.

416
00:20:04,533 --> 00:20:08,867
-And this is before the $230,000 demand.
-Yes, ma'am.

417
00:20:08,934 --> 00:20:11,800
[Acker] Here, I'm gonna read it.
"Oh, my God!

418
00:20:11,867 --> 00:20:15,600
I'm really sorry you had with us..."
I think you mean that experience,

419
00:20:15,667 --> 00:20:19,900
"and apologize that you were not treated
with the care and had a bad experience.

420
00:20:19,967 --> 00:20:22,300
I'm going to talk
about this issue with her,

421
00:20:22,367 --> 00:20:24,834
as it shows how unprofessional we are.

422
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:26,834
Please accept credit for the next time.

423
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:29,500
And I hope that you forgive us
this time,

424
00:20:29,567 --> 00:20:32,800
and much, much apologies,
and thank you for letting me know."

425
00:20:32,867 --> 00:20:35,133
-The next day is the 10th.
-Tenth.

426
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,166
And the Plaintiff's response is,
"Hey, my face looks so bad.

427
00:20:39,233 --> 00:20:41,500
I would've thought
you would've checked on me.

428
00:20:41,567 --> 00:20:43,500
This is not going to end well."

429
00:20:43,567 --> 00:20:46,433
The Defendant:
"I know, and I really feel you.

430
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,467
Let me know how I can help you,
or if you would like

431
00:20:49,533 --> 00:20:52,900
to come tomorrow after 2:00
so that we can see what we can do.

432
00:20:52,967 --> 00:20:55,667
Please, I really feel bad,
and my heartfelt apologies

433
00:20:55,734 --> 00:20:57,934
how she handled you.
I'm so, so sorry."

434
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,300
How on Earth do you glean from that
that she didn't care about you?

435
00:21:01,367 --> 00:21:03,000
Can I please speak?

436
00:21:03,066 --> 00:21:05,767
State board,
I called them immediately.

437
00:21:05,834 --> 00:21:08,934
As soon as state board saw those pictures,
they was there in four days.

438
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,200
State board called me
a week and a half later

439
00:21:11,266 --> 00:21:14,300
and told me over the phone,
and you guys have the actual report,

440
00:21:14,367 --> 00:21:17,533
that Roopa told them
she didn't know the employee

441
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,000
was even practicing over there.
She had no idea.

442
00:21:20,066 --> 00:21:23,600
So, my thing is this.
Either her practice,

443
00:21:23,667 --> 00:21:24,834
for not following state board

444
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:27,300
and having people certified
in her actual establishment,

445
00:21:27,367 --> 00:21:30,300
was not followed. Or she
did not tell the truth to state board.

446
00:21:30,367 --> 00:21:31,767
[Acker]
I'm good. Thank you, Judge.

447
00:21:31,834 --> 00:21:34,400
I don't have anything further.
We're going to retire to deliberate.

448
00:21:34,467 --> 00:21:35,467
Thank you for your time.

449
00:21:35,533 --> 00:21:37,066
[Byrd]
Court now stands in recess.

450
00:21:37,133 --> 00:21:40,600
This case will be recalled.
Parties are excused for the time being.

451
00:21:40,667 --> 00:21:42,367
[dramatic music playing]

452
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:48,000
[dramatic music playing]

453
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,834
It's probably fair to say
that we all had some issues

454
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:53,767
with at least parts of her testimony.

455
00:21:53,834 --> 00:21:57,300
But I think she's entitled to something.

456
00:21:57,367 --> 00:22:01,233
And again, remember
the dermatologist testified

457
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,934
that any sort of waxing,
any kind of threading,

458
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,166
especially with darker skin,
can give rise to that hyperpigmentation.

459
00:22:09,233 --> 00:22:12,400
But she did say
that there were some areas,

460
00:22:12,467 --> 00:22:16,734
there were some hyperpigmented patches
that correlated with the abrasions.

461
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,767
You know, you still gotta treat it.
And I would throw this out there,

462
00:22:20,834 --> 00:22:24,000
I would propose an award of $500.

463
00:22:24,066 --> 00:22:26,233
Her skin is scarred.
Like, that is a fact.

464
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:28,166
We have expert testimony
as to that.

465
00:22:28,233 --> 00:22:31,133
We do, but we don't have expert testimony
that this procedure did it.

466
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,367
So for me, I'm not convinced
that this procedure

467
00:22:34,433 --> 00:22:38,000
caused this kind of scarring.
One, I don't even see that on her.

468
00:22:38,066 --> 00:22:41,667
And in fact, she said it,
she's 53 years old, so I can say it,

469
00:22:41,734 --> 00:22:45,800
she's had these procedures,
hair removal, goin' on a long time.

470
00:22:45,867 --> 00:22:49,133
So, I'm not in a position
based on her testimony

471
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,233
to want to award her anything.

472
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:52,867
I think Adam really does, though.

473
00:22:52,934 --> 00:22:54,934
Zero, donut, nothin'.

474
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,467
Litigants gotta understand
that when they file a lawsuit,

475
00:22:58,533 --> 00:23:00,800
the most important thing
is to be honest,

476
00:23:00,867 --> 00:23:02,533
obviously, don't exaggerate,

477
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,433
and when it's your time to come to court,

478
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,767
to bring evidence
that you claim supports your case.

479
00:23:06,834 --> 00:23:10,934
Plaintiff consistently testified
that she had second-degree burns.

480
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,600
And in my opinion, when you lie
about the main issue of a case,

481
00:23:16,667 --> 00:23:19,667
I take that testimony...
boop, throw it right out the window.

482
00:23:19,734 --> 00:23:21,667
I don't think the Plaintiff
should get a nickel.

483
00:23:21,734 --> 00:23:24,934
I was really basing my analysis
less on the Plaintiff's testimony

484
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,667
and really on the experts.

485
00:23:26,734 --> 00:23:28,800
I mean, we know it wasn't
a second-degree burn.

486
00:23:28,867 --> 00:23:30,734
I mean, that was a gross exaggeration.

487
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,400
But you know, I would still be willing,
based on the expert's testimony

488
00:23:35,467 --> 00:23:37,967
about the damage,
and also what it would cost

489
00:23:38,033 --> 00:23:40,934
to try to treat it, to give her $500.
But I don't feel like

490
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,567
-there's any convincing either of you.
-No.

491
00:23:42,633 --> 00:23:46,734
I think the remedy here occurred.
I think the Defendant admitted,

492
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,266
apologized, and fired the woman,
offered to give her some other sort of...

493
00:23:51,333 --> 00:23:53,200
You won't even just give her
her $12 back?

494
00:23:53,266 --> 00:23:54,834
-I...
-Donut.

495
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:56,600
-Give her her $12 back.
-Donut.

496
00:23:56,667 --> 00:23:59,633
All right. I think we're not unanimous,
but we have a verdict.

497
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:02,767
[dramatic music playing]

498
00:24:02,834 --> 00:24:05,834
Court is back in session.
I remind parties you're still under oath.

499
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:07,000
-Thank you, Byrd.
-Mm-hmm.

500
00:24:07,066 --> 00:24:09,500
We've deliberated,
and we've reached a verdict,

501
00:24:09,567 --> 00:24:11,700
and our verdict is not unanimous.

502
00:24:11,767 --> 00:24:14,533
Ms. Valor, I do believe you were injured.

503
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,867
And I was compelled by certain portions
of the doctor's testimony

504
00:24:18,934 --> 00:24:22,200
about the correspondence
between some of the abrasions

505
00:24:22,266 --> 00:24:25,233
and the discoloration
that she now witnessed.

506
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:30,900
So, I was prepared to award you $500
based on also, on the doctor's testimony

507
00:24:30,967 --> 00:24:34,000
about what it would cost
to start to treat those injuries.

508
00:24:34,066 --> 00:24:37,567
I, however, was out-voted.
Neither of my colleagues believes

509
00:24:37,633 --> 00:24:40,066
that you've met
your burden of proof in this case.

510
00:24:40,133 --> 00:24:43,367
Uh, Judge Levy really took issue
with your lack of credibility

511
00:24:43,433 --> 00:24:45,300
regarding certain of the damages,

512
00:24:45,367 --> 00:24:48,867
specifically your contention
that these were second-degree burns.

513
00:24:48,934 --> 00:24:51,066
The gross exaggerations at the outset

514
00:24:51,133 --> 00:24:54,767
moved him to not even see
toward giving you $12.

515
00:24:54,834 --> 00:24:57,700
'Cause I was like, maybe
we could give her her money back.

516
00:24:57,767 --> 00:25:01,734
But that lack of credibility
really spoke volumes to him.

517
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,467
And same with Judge DiMango,
who was also persuaded

518
00:25:04,533 --> 00:25:07,767
by other portions
of our expert's testimony

519
00:25:07,834 --> 00:25:11,100
that spoke to how,
even under the best of circumstances,

520
00:25:11,166 --> 00:25:14,233
certain discoloration
might still have been apparent.

521
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:17,033
So, unfortunately for you,
the verdict of this court

522
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:18,934
that your complaint be dismissed,

523
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,433
I suppose the silver lining for you

524
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:24,467
is that you are a beautiful woman
with great skin,

525
00:25:24,533 --> 00:25:27,867
and celebrate that great skin.
You're clearly taking great care of it.

526
00:25:27,934 --> 00:25:31,900
But you will leave this court today
with nothing.

527
00:25:31,967 --> 00:25:34,533
That's the verdict of the court.
Good luck to both of you.

528
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,900
-[gavel bangs]
-[Byrd] This case is now concluded.

529
00:25:36,967 --> 00:25:39,333
Parties are excused.
You may step out.

530
00:25:42,734 --> 00:25:47,066
I did realize the wax was very, very hot
once it was on my face.

531
00:25:47,133 --> 00:25:50,834
I did see it, but I don't think
it's a permanent damage.

532
00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:52,934
Just make sure I go to somebody
who's board-certified.

533
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,066
Somebody that I've already looked
and did research on.

534
00:25:56,133 --> 00:25:58,333
Maybe Instagram and Yelp,
make sure they don't have anybody

535
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,000
who did not receive services
that they weren't happy with.

536
00:26:01,066 --> 00:26:02,934
I did get rid of the employee.

537
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,867
[narrator]
Are you being sued?

538
00:26:04,934 --> 00:26:08,000
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.

539
00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:12,300
Find us on social media
@TribunalJustice.

540
00:26:12,367 --> 00:26:14,367
[theme music playing]