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Mr. Black: It was
July 18th, 1969.

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It was early in the
morning, about 5:30 a.m.

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It was a beautiful
day to fly.

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{\an8}No wind to speak of.

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{\an8}So how could
it be better?

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We start up the engines.

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We were full of fuel.

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Everything was fine.

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And we started taxiing.

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And then sure enough,

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the aircraft
started to climb.

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Chuck brought the landing
gear up.

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We were accelerating
and climbing

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above the runway,

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and I think we were about

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100 feet above the ground
when I started noticing

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that something was wrong.

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You have one engine
at higher rpm,

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another low rpm.

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Now that can happen
with an engine failure.

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And I mean,
I grabbed the chairs

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and held on
and looked out

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and I saw a bunch
of green grass

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and it looked
like a city park

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And I thought, well,
worst case scenario,

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we've always been trained
to just land in a park.

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But the next thing
I noticed was

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towering trees
were filling our windshield

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Chuck grabbed
the flight controls,

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and he yanks them all
the way left.

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As far as they'll go.

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And then he pulls them
all the way back,

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against his chest.

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I suddenly found myself

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above the crash site,

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but unaware

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of what I was
looking at or why.

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I was not in any pain.

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I was not in any fear
or discomfort.

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I was just above this
crash site.

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I could see an airplane
and I could see a pilot.

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First of all, my eyes
went right to one pilot.

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This was Gene.

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And then I went over
and I saw another pilot

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right next to him
five feet away.

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And I recognized this
as Chuck.

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And while I'm processing
what I'm looking at,

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I see a third pilot also
about five feet away.

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And this is me.

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00:04:05,998 --> 00:04:09,334
Mr. Burke: Imagine if what
we're living here on this

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earth is really being
lived on a flat, black

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and white
painting on a wall,

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and death is separation.

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So when we die, our

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spirit separates
from our physical body.

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You die and
you're ripped off

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that flat,
black and white

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two-dimensional painting

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your brought out into a
three-dimensional room

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of color all around you.

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You're experiencing things

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you've never
experienced before,

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even though you can
see your world

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is contained
within this world,

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then imagine
you're put back into

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that flat,
black and white painting,

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and you have to describe

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three dimensions of color

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00:04:49,499 --> 00:04:52,502
in two-dimensional
black and white terms.

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How would you do it?

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Dr. Sabom: Medically,

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Scientifically,

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the point of death

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cannot be defined.

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{\an8}What we do know is there
is a process of dying

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{\an8}during which I feel the

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{\an8}near-death
experience occurs.

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00:05:53,522 --> 00:05:56,149
75% of the people in that
first study

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have had a documented
cardiac arrest.

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00:06:03,073 --> 00:06:04,407
Part of the
experience is they

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said they floated up
out of their body

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and they can see
what was going on

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during the resuscitation.

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I felt that myself,
as a cardiologist

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could pick that apart.

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Mr. Burke: This is clinical
death as we know it,

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sometimes
for a few minutes,

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sometimes 30 minutes,
sometimes hours.

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{\an8}And yet modern medicine
or the miraculous,

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{\an8}I don't know,

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{\an8}resuscitated them

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{\an8}and they were able
to come back

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{\an8}and talk about it.

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You may think
you've died.

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00:07:46,885 --> 00:07:48,595
{\an8}Dr. Sabom: All definitions,
medically,

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00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,555
{\an8}scientifically,
and legally

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{\an8}state that once you go
across that red line,

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{\an8}i.e. you die,

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you don't come back.

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And I like to say doctors
resuscitate,

101
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not resurrect
their patients.

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00:08:04,569 --> 00:08:06,196
Mr. Burke: I was actually
an agnostic.

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00:08:06,321 --> 00:08:08,281
I didn't know if I
believed there was a God.

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00:08:08,406 --> 00:08:10,116
I thought, I don't
know if I believe

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00:08:10,242 --> 00:08:11,243
there's a heaven or not,

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00:08:11,368 --> 00:08:13,453
but my dad was
dying of cancer

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00:08:13,578 --> 00:08:16,915
and someone gave him
the very first research

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on what's now called
near-death experiences.

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And I saw it
on his nightstand,

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picked it up
and read it in one night.

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And that just
got me curious.

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So I kind of opened my
my eyes, my mind,

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and I started
to explore from there.

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I found it fascinating,

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kind of, the train
of how this

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whole near-death
experience phenomenon

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started to get
traction in America.

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Dr. George Ritchie
was the first one

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to really talk
publicly about this.

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He was actually
at Camp Barkeley

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getting ready to go
fight in World War II.

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Joan Rivers: What happened
during those 9 minutes?

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What did you see?
What happened?

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Dr. Ritchie: I met
the Christ

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because I was told
to stand up, you are

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00:09:03,295 --> 00:09:04,921
in the presence
of the Son of God.

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He came into my room

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and he conducted me
through four different

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realms of life
after death.

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Life really is
forever. We don't die.

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Death is nothing
more than just a gateway

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through which we go.

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Mr. Burke: Dr. Moody
actually heard him lecture

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at the University
of Virginia,

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where he was
a visiting professor

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and heard him talk about

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this near-death
experience.

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Dr. Moody: In 1969,

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I became a professor
of philosophy

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00:09:30,572 --> 00:09:32,365
at East
Carolina University

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{\an8}and in teaching
courses on Plato.

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{\an8}I began to hear these

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{\an8}experiences
from my students

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{\an8}and also from other
faculty members.

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Dr. Sabom: I was
brought into this

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field kicking
and screaming.

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{\an8}I was at the University
of Florida in Gainesville

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{\an8}with Sarah Kreissinger

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{\an8}who was a psychiatric,
social worker

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{\an8}at the hospital
I was working at.

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And she had picked up

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Raymond Moody's book
Life After Life,

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about two months

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after it was
initially published.

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She read it.
She gave it to me.

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She asked me
what I thought.

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This is Dr. Raymond
Moody,

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noted psychiatrist,
lecturer, and researcher.

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He is perhaps best
known as the author

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of the groundbreaking
examination

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of the near-death
experience.

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The bestselling book,
Life After Life.

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It has sold upwards
of 15 million copies,

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and has been printed in
14 different languages.

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Dr. Moody: They tell us,
first of all,

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that they seem,
from their point of view,

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to leave
their physical bodies

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to float up above the
scene of the resuscitation

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and to watch the events
going on down below.

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They tell us that they go

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through a narrow
passageway or a tunnel

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into an
incredibly brilliant

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and warm and loving light

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Dr. Sabom: Hogwash.

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I never heard
these experiences before.

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I went into the hospital

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asking some of the
older physicians,

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"Hey, you ever heard
a patient say this?"

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"No."

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So I was very skeptical

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that these things
were even occurring.

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And if they were
occurring,

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they were either
hallucinations

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or delusions or whatever.

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In cardiology, we're about
scientific studies.

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So I asked a few people

187
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who had been resuscitated,

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and the third patient

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I talked to had
an experience

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00:11:21,766 --> 00:11:23,101
similar to what
Moody talked

191
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about in his book,
Life After Life.

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So, Sarah and I said,

193
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Well, maybe we ought
to look into this further.

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We devised a
scientific protocol

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to interview
these people.

196
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We tape recorded
the interviews.

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We took down
their background data,

198
00:11:40,952 --> 00:11:43,538
the demographics,
etc.. And...

199
00:11:44,789 --> 00:11:47,041
this went
on for five years.

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First of all,
I'd get permission

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00:11:48,835 --> 00:11:52,464
to tape record it
and then say,

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okay, go...

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Dr. Sabom: These
people say,

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"I've never told anybody
about this, doc.

205
00:13:01,658 --> 00:13:02,909
And by the way, I'm
the only one

206
00:13:03,034 --> 00:13:04,410
that's ever had this."

207
00:13:04,536 --> 00:13:07,163
So the near-death
experience at that time,

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00:13:07,288 --> 00:13:11,417
and that's about 45 years
ago was not well known.

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00:13:11,626 --> 00:13:14,462
And so these people
were sort of

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00:13:14,587 --> 00:13:16,381
coming up
with it on their own,

211
00:13:16,506 --> 00:13:19,634
and they were suspicious
of me asking the questions,

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00:13:19,968 --> 00:13:20,802
which to me

213
00:13:20,927 --> 00:13:23,763
lent credibility to what
they were telling me.

214
00:13:23,888 --> 00:13:25,557
Dr. Moody: Many of them
said, for example,

215
00:13:25,682 --> 00:13:28,434
that they had tried to tell
their doctor about it

216
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,437
or a minister about it and
that they were dismissed.

217
00:13:31,563 --> 00:13:33,648
And in those initial years,

218
00:13:33,773 --> 00:13:37,068
the people that I talked
with were just very happy

219
00:13:37,193 --> 00:13:39,320
that at last somebody
would listen to them.

220
00:13:42,282 --> 00:13:44,576
Mr. Storm: I started at
Northern Kentucky University

221
00:13:44,701 --> 00:13:46,369
in 1972.

222
00:13:46,828 --> 00:13:49,205
{\an8}I was hired as an assistant
professor and I was

223
00:13:50,164 --> 00:13:52,542
{\an8}offered a promotion
to full professor

224
00:13:52,667 --> 00:13:55,795
at the age of 25, and
I was also given tenure

225
00:13:56,921 --> 00:13:59,340
my third year.

226
00:14:01,593 --> 00:14:03,177
Seven students, myself

227
00:14:03,303 --> 00:14:03,970
and my wife

228
00:14:04,095 --> 00:14:05,722
toured Amsterdam

229
00:14:05,847 --> 00:14:08,016
and then went up
to Denmark.

230
00:14:08,141 --> 00:14:11,102
Spent a few days there,
went to Sweden for a day.

231
00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:14,230
And last week, it was
a three week trip,

232
00:14:14,355 --> 00:14:17,275
and our last week,
was a week in Paris.

233
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:23,656
It was an art tour, it was,
pretty much all museums.

234
00:14:26,367 --> 00:14:28,286
On that Saturday morning,

235
00:14:28,411 --> 00:14:29,954
June 1, 1985,

236
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:31,164
and I had the most acute

237
00:14:31,289 --> 00:14:32,915
pain I'd ever
experienced in my life

238
00:14:33,041 --> 00:14:36,044
in the center of
my abdomen. Right there.

239
00:14:41,090 --> 00:14:42,467
It was terrifying
because it

240
00:14:42,592 --> 00:14:43,843
it just came from
nowhere.

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00:14:43,968 --> 00:14:46,179
And I never experienced
such acute pain.

242
00:14:46,304 --> 00:14:47,764
I mean, this was like

243
00:14:47,889 --> 00:14:49,390
the kind of pain
that blows

244
00:14:49,515 --> 00:14:50,725
the top of your head off.

245
00:14:55,355 --> 00:14:56,731
A doctor
came very quickly,

246
00:14:56,856 --> 00:14:57,982
got me up
off the floor,

247
00:14:58,107 --> 00:14:59,901
with a great deal of
difficulty because

248
00:15:00,026 --> 00:15:01,235
I couldn't move.

249
00:15:01,361 --> 00:15:02,612
He knew exactly
what was wrong.

250
00:15:02,737 --> 00:15:04,781
and told me that I
had a perforation

251
00:15:04,906 --> 00:15:05,990
of the duodenum.

252
00:15:06,115 --> 00:15:07,450
Which means I had a hole

253
00:15:07,575 --> 00:15:09,452
go through my
small stomach.

254
00:15:10,119 --> 00:15:12,080
What was happening
was the hydrochloric acid

255
00:15:12,205 --> 00:15:12,872
and the enzymes

256
00:15:12,997 --> 00:15:13,748
and the bacteria
in everything

257
00:15:13,873 --> 00:15:15,166
are now migrating, leaking

258
00:15:15,291 --> 00:15:16,709
into my abdominal cavity.

259
00:15:16,834 --> 00:15:17,877
To put it in crude terms.

260
00:15:18,002 --> 00:15:21,422
I was digesting myself,
on the inside.

261
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:24,092
Without exaggeration,

262
00:15:24,217 --> 00:15:25,718
what it felt like
was fire.

263
00:15:26,719 --> 00:15:28,137
my wife riding alongside me

264
00:15:28,262 --> 00:15:29,055
in the back of
the ambulance

265
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:31,724
as we traveled
70, 80 miles an hour

266
00:15:31,849 --> 00:15:34,977
through the streets
of Paris to the big

267
00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:36,813
city hospital

268
00:15:39,273 --> 00:15:40,692
they confirmed basically,

269
00:15:40,817 --> 00:15:42,527
if I didn't have the
surgery in an hour,

270
00:15:42,652 --> 00:15:43,653
I would die.

271
00:15:45,113 --> 00:15:47,740
So they sent me
to the surgical hospital.

272
00:15:47,865 --> 00:15:49,242
And because it was
the weekend,

273
00:15:49,367 --> 00:15:51,869
there was no doctor
available.

274
00:15:51,994 --> 00:15:54,622
No surgeon
available at the hospital

275
00:15:54,747 --> 00:15:57,667
they sent me to.
So I was put in a room.

276
00:15:59,711 --> 00:16:00,753
I begged, I screamed,

277
00:16:00,878 --> 00:16:03,840
I yelled,

278
00:16:05,133 --> 00:16:05,967
and my wife begged

279
00:16:06,092 --> 00:16:07,385
and yelled and screamed,

280
00:16:07,510 --> 00:16:09,512
Nurse, can someone
please come in here?

281
00:16:11,681 --> 00:16:12,306
Mr. Storm: Sorry.

282
00:16:12,432 --> 00:16:14,809
We need a doctor
to prescribe something

283
00:16:14,934 --> 00:16:16,978
Can you please talk
to someone who can help us?

284
00:16:17,103 --> 00:16:18,104
There has to be somebody,

285
00:16:18,229 --> 00:16:20,273
how can there not be
someone here?

286
00:16:24,902 --> 00:16:27,780
Mr. Storm: There I
was for 10 hours.

287
00:16:27,905 --> 00:16:29,532
About once an hour,
the nurse would come in

288
00:16:29,657 --> 00:16:32,160
and ask how I was doing,
and I would tell her in

289
00:16:32,285 --> 00:16:35,246
French and English
that I was dying and

290
00:16:36,456 --> 00:16:39,459
shrug their shoulders
and walk away.

291
00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:41,502
I wasn't in fear.

292
00:16:41,627 --> 00:16:42,879
I was in terror

293
00:16:43,004 --> 00:16:45,882
Because I was 38 years old,
very successful

294
00:16:46,007 --> 00:16:47,633
in my career
at the university,

295
00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:52,013
you know, wife and two
kids, nice house, two cars.

296
00:16:52,472 --> 00:16:53,723
The thing
that kept going through

297
00:16:53,848 --> 00:16:55,725
my mind is this
can't be happening.

298
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:57,977
This can't be happening.
This can't be happening.

299
00:17:00,521 --> 00:17:01,355
People ask me,

300
00:17:01,481 --> 00:17:02,690
How do you know
you were dying?

301
00:17:02,815 --> 00:17:05,735
It's like the stupidest
question in the world

302
00:17:06,819 --> 00:17:08,571
when you're dying,
you know it

303
00:17:09,697 --> 00:17:11,407
with every breath.

304
00:17:11,532 --> 00:17:14,452
I felt like I had one more
breath to go.

305
00:17:17,955 --> 00:17:21,751
Nurse came into the room
at 8:30 that night

306
00:17:21,876 --> 00:17:23,169
and said they were sorry,

307
00:17:23,294 --> 00:17:23,961
but they were

308
00:17:24,086 --> 00:17:26,714
unable to locate a doctor
and they would try

309
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,801
to find one the next day,
which was Sunday.

310
00:17:30,551 --> 00:17:32,428
Well, when she said that,
I was like,

311
00:17:32,553 --> 00:17:34,347
okay, it's over. Done.

312
00:17:34,472 --> 00:17:36,098
You know,
I can't do this anymore.

313
00:17:36,224 --> 00:17:38,267
You know, I'm exhausted.

314
00:17:38,392 --> 00:17:39,352
And I looked
at her [Beverly],

315
00:17:39,477 --> 00:17:42,396
and it was horrible to
see her crying like that.

316
00:17:43,397 --> 00:17:47,068
And I closed my eyes and
stopped trying to breathe.

317
00:17:47,193 --> 00:17:50,196
And I went unconscious.

318
00:17:52,532 --> 00:17:54,242
I was an atheist,
and I knew that

319
00:17:54,367 --> 00:17:56,410
when you die,
it's just over.

320
00:17:56,536 --> 00:18:00,414
It's like the big nothing,
you know, void the end.

321
00:18:03,292 --> 00:18:03,918
Mr. Black: The official

322
00:18:04,043 --> 00:18:07,004
impact speed recorded
by the National

323
00:18:07,129 --> 00:18:10,967
Transportation Safety Board
was 135 miles an hour.

324
00:18:12,426 --> 00:18:15,429
We impacted
right below the cockpit

325
00:18:15,847 --> 00:18:16,931
with that impact speed.

326
00:18:17,056 --> 00:18:20,268
It just exploded
the cockpit into...

327
00:18:20,393 --> 00:18:23,020
{\an8}We just,
everything was opened up.

328
00:18:23,145 --> 00:18:25,064
{\an8}We hit that dome and fell,

329
00:18:25,189 --> 00:18:28,109
boom,
right down to the ground.

330
00:18:29,694 --> 00:18:31,779
{\an8}I'm told by the curator

331
00:18:31,904 --> 00:18:33,739
{\an8}of the mausoleum,
that the mausoleum

332
00:18:33,865 --> 00:18:35,700
{\an8}was six stories,
seven stories tall.

333
00:18:35,825 --> 00:18:37,285
{\an8}And we slammed

334
00:18:37,410 --> 00:18:39,537
{\an8}right into the top of it.

335
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,373
I can remember today

336
00:18:42,498 --> 00:18:45,418
as well as I could five
years ago, ten years ago.

337
00:18:46,127 --> 00:18:50,172
You realize
that you are not

338
00:18:51,424 --> 00:18:53,175
a body.

339
00:18:53,301 --> 00:18:55,344
I believe it's

340
00:18:55,469 --> 00:18:58,431
what happens to everyone
when they die.

341
00:19:00,057 --> 00:19:01,809
Mr. Storm: I awoke
from unconsciousness

342
00:19:01,934 --> 00:19:03,227
standing there

343
00:19:03,352 --> 00:19:04,604
next to the bed,

344
00:19:04,729 --> 00:19:06,606
feeling better than I ever
felt before in my life.

345
00:19:08,941 --> 00:19:12,069
My vision
was greatly increased.

346
00:19:12,194 --> 00:19:13,696
{\an8}Instead of seeing 106

347
00:19:13,821 --> 00:19:17,241
{\an8}degrees, I could see
almost 360 degrees.

348
00:19:18,117 --> 00:19:20,828
My depth of field
was total.

349
00:19:20,953 --> 00:19:23,915
When I looked at something
close, I, everything

350
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,458
far was in focus.

351
00:19:25,583 --> 00:19:27,835
Being an artist and being
a visual person, not much.

352
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,922
The first thing I was like,
Wow, I've never been able

353
00:19:31,047 --> 00:19:31,756
to see like this.

354
00:19:31,881 --> 00:19:33,174
Then I realized I
could hear,

355
00:19:33,299 --> 00:19:35,092
smell, taste, touch, everything.

356
00:19:35,217 --> 00:19:36,260
I could feel

357
00:19:36,385 --> 00:19:39,305
all the little nuances
in the cold linoleum floor.

358
00:19:40,431 --> 00:19:43,351
I could hear the buzzing
of the fluorescent lights

359
00:19:43,476 --> 00:19:46,437
in the ceiling
really loudly.

360
00:19:47,313 --> 00:19:50,483
All of my senses were
greatly, greatly enhanced.

361
00:19:51,233 --> 00:19:53,444
Mr. Black: I'm looking
down and I'm realizing

362
00:19:53,569 --> 00:19:56,489
there's my body,
but I'm up here.

363
00:19:56,864 --> 00:20:00,660
I can't be dead because
I've never felt more alive.

364
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:05,539
I was not only alive,
I was free.

365
00:20:05,665 --> 00:20:07,500
And I didn't understand
this.

366
00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:09,251
But I realized then, okay,

367
00:20:10,836 --> 00:20:13,839
I am a spirit.

368
00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:17,093
I have a soul.

369
00:20:18,177 --> 00:20:18,970
And I used to live

370
00:20:19,095 --> 00:20:22,056
in that body.

371
00:20:23,516 --> 00:20:26,519
I was pressed up against
the instrument panel

372
00:20:27,186 --> 00:20:30,189
and was motionless.

373
00:20:30,356 --> 00:20:32,858
It was 16 minutes
before the fire department

374
00:20:32,984 --> 00:20:33,818
got there.

375
00:20:33,943 --> 00:20:36,946
The paramedics
got there right after

376
00:20:39,573 --> 00:20:42,576
they put me and Chuck
in the same ambulance.

377
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:48,541
And I have tremendous
strong memories

378
00:20:48,874 --> 00:20:53,754
that I'm watching my body
and Chuck and I'm chasing

379
00:20:53,879 --> 00:20:56,882
that ambulance as it goes
through the streets.

380
00:20:57,049 --> 00:21:00,302
I have no idea
how to explain

381
00:21:00,428 --> 00:21:02,596
a lot of the things
we're talking about.

382
00:21:02,722 --> 00:21:06,892
But chasing that ambulance
without really any effort.

383
00:21:07,143 --> 00:21:08,019
How did I do that?

384
00:21:08,144 --> 00:21:11,063
I don't know.

385
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:15,651
I wasn't worried.

386
00:21:15,776 --> 00:21:16,986
I wasn't in pain.

387
00:21:17,111 --> 00:21:19,447
I wasn't concerned really.

388
00:21:19,572 --> 00:21:24,410
I was questioning,
what is this all about

389
00:21:26,495 --> 00:21:28,539
{\an8}Dr. Long: Now, while no two
near-death experiences

390
00:21:28,664 --> 00:21:29,457
{\an8}are the same,

391
00:21:29,582 --> 00:21:31,083
{\an8}they have a very consistent

392
00:21:31,208 --> 00:21:33,419
{\an8}pattern of elements
or what occurs

393
00:21:33,544 --> 00:21:34,879
{\an8}during the near-death
experience.

394
00:21:35,004 --> 00:21:37,840
That typically occur in
a very consistent process.

395
00:21:40,134 --> 00:21:41,010
The very first thing that

396
00:21:41,135 --> 00:21:44,055
happens is that close
brush with death.

397
00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:45,181
They're unconscious.

398
00:21:45,306 --> 00:21:47,516
They may be clinically dead
with absent heartbeat,

399
00:21:47,641 --> 00:21:48,726
absent breathing.

400
00:21:48,851 --> 00:21:50,311
At that time when
they shouldn't

401
00:21:50,436 --> 00:21:52,813
have any experience at
all, they do.

402
00:21:52,938 --> 00:21:54,815
Often the first thing
that happens is

403
00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:57,860
what's called
an out-of-body experience.

404
00:21:58,069 --> 00:21:59,528
{\an8}Mr. Burke: People leave
their bodies.

405
00:21:59,653 --> 00:22:01,238
{\an8}They're, they're watching

406
00:22:01,363 --> 00:22:03,074
{\an8}the resuscitation
many times, but they say

407
00:22:03,199 --> 00:22:05,284
{\an8}they still have
a spiritual body.

408
00:22:05,409 --> 00:22:06,494
Dr. Long: From that
vantage point,

409
00:22:06,619 --> 00:22:08,454
they can see ongoing
earthly events

410
00:22:08,579 --> 00:22:09,955
and often later describe

411
00:22:10,081 --> 00:22:13,042
frantic efforts
at their own resuscitation.

412
00:22:16,378 --> 00:22:18,172
Mr. Burke: They move out
of that place

413
00:22:18,297 --> 00:22:19,590
of their resuscitation,

414
00:22:19,715 --> 00:22:22,635
and they come to a place
of exquisite beauty.

415
00:22:22,802 --> 00:22:25,471
- Dr. Sabom:
- They very commonly
see a light at times.

416
00:22:25,596 --> 00:22:28,557
They interpret
that as a religious figure.

417
00:22:28,766 --> 00:22:32,853
Mr. Burke: And this light was
light that is love and life.

418
00:22:33,145 --> 00:22:34,522
It was palpable

419
00:22:34,647 --> 00:22:35,481
and not hard to look at,

420
00:22:35,606 --> 00:22:37,066
but it came out
of everything,

421
00:22:37,191 --> 00:22:39,443
and yet it made everything
vibrant.

422
00:22:39,568 --> 00:22:41,570
The colors,
they say, are far

423
00:22:41,695 --> 00:22:42,988
beyond our color spectrum.

424
00:22:44,365 --> 00:22:45,157
Dr. Long: Music has been

425
00:22:45,282 --> 00:22:47,159
described so beautiful

426
00:22:47,284 --> 00:22:49,286
that they say they've never
heard anything like it.

427
00:22:49,411 --> 00:22:51,831
Nothing like that
is possible on earth.

428
00:22:51,956 --> 00:22:54,208
Dr. Sabom: Deceased
relatives or friends often

429
00:22:54,333 --> 00:22:56,418
come to meet them there.

430
00:22:56,544 --> 00:22:58,921
Mr. Burke: You know, they say
we still have all our memories

431
00:22:59,046 --> 00:23:01,006
our humor,
we're the same people.

432
00:23:01,132 --> 00:23:03,509
But we meet again
on the other side.

433
00:23:03,634 --> 00:23:06,720
{\an8}Dr. Sabom: And some of them say,
well, I reached a place where

434
00:23:06,887 --> 00:23:07,596
{\an8}I felt like

435
00:23:07,721 --> 00:23:10,683
{\an8}if I went any further,
I wouldn't come back

436
00:23:11,433 --> 00:23:12,101
Dr. Long: At that time,

437
00:23:12,226 --> 00:23:13,769
they may then have
a life review.

438
00:23:13,894 --> 00:23:16,814
They may see part
or all of their prior life.

439
00:23:17,982 --> 00:23:19,441
Dr. Sabom: The whole
experience is

440
00:23:19,567 --> 00:23:22,528
very calm,
it's very peaceful.

441
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,323
Some people don't
want to come back.

442
00:23:28,576 --> 00:23:29,577
Mr. Burke: And then many talk

443
00:23:29,702 --> 00:23:32,913
about a God of light
and love

444
00:23:33,414 --> 00:23:35,916
that they experience
in this presence.

445
00:23:36,041 --> 00:23:38,335
This light is brighter
than the sun,

446
00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:41,255
but again, not just light
like we would see

447
00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:42,173
here on earth.

448
00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:46,635
And they feel an
unconditional love

449
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,596
and peace and acceptance

450
00:23:48,721 --> 00:23:51,682
from this God like they've
never experienced before.

451
00:23:53,142 --> 00:23:55,644
- Dr. Long:
- Ultimately, they either
make the choice to return

452
00:23:55,769 --> 00:23:58,731
to the earthly body or
sent back involuntarily.

453
00:23:59,648 --> 00:24:02,484
Mr. Burke: This God almost
always says to them,

454
00:24:02,610 --> 00:24:04,612
Your time is not up yet.

455
00:24:04,737 --> 00:24:07,364
You still have a purpose
on Earth.

456
00:24:07,489 --> 00:24:08,532
Sometimes he asks them,

457
00:24:08,657 --> 00:24:09,950
Do you want to stay
or do you want to go?

458
00:24:10,075 --> 00:24:12,453
Many times he says,
You got to go back.

459
00:24:12,578 --> 00:24:15,581
None of them want to go
back.

460
00:24:20,544 --> 00:24:22,046
Mr. Burke: Not every
single one of

461
00:24:22,171 --> 00:24:24,423
them experiences
all the commonalities.

462
00:24:24,548 --> 00:24:27,843
Some do, some experience
three, four or five,

463
00:24:27,968 --> 00:24:30,930
some ten, 20,
some, all of them.

464
00:24:31,513 --> 00:24:33,807
But those
commonalities overlap.

465
00:24:33,933 --> 00:24:36,393
But there are uniqueness
to each experience.

466
00:24:36,518 --> 00:24:39,563
Like when they encounter
this god of light and love,

467
00:24:39,813 --> 00:24:42,024
each one of them feels like

468
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:44,068
they are the only
one God loves.

469
00:24:46,987 --> 00:24:47,738
And yet,

470
00:24:47,863 --> 00:24:50,866
they all feel that way.

471
00:25:08,217 --> 00:25:09,260
Mr. Burke: You know actually,
these near-death

472
00:25:09,385 --> 00:25:12,346
experiences are not new.

473
00:25:13,472 --> 00:25:15,182
Plato wrote in the Republic
about

474
00:25:15,307 --> 00:25:18,227
a soldier who comes to
on his funeral pyre

475
00:25:18,644 --> 00:25:21,647
and had an experience
like this.

476
00:25:22,231 --> 00:25:24,358
Paul in the New Testament,
who wrote much of

477
00:25:24,483 --> 00:25:25,526
the New Testament,

478
00:25:25,651 --> 00:25:27,069
I believe in
Acts chapter 14,

479
00:25:27,194 --> 00:25:29,780
He's stoned to
death in Lystra

480
00:25:30,072 --> 00:25:31,156
and left for dead.

481
00:25:31,282 --> 00:25:34,118
And then he gets back up
and he talks about

482
00:25:34,243 --> 00:25:37,246
how he had an experience
of going to heaven

483
00:25:40,874 --> 00:25:41,959
Dr. Moody: In the ancient world.

484
00:25:42,084 --> 00:25:45,129
Presumably these
experiences were very rare.

485
00:25:45,796 --> 00:25:48,132
By the time
I started investigating it

486
00:25:48,257 --> 00:25:50,509
in the 60s
and 70s,

487
00:25:50,634 --> 00:25:52,845
the advent
of cardiopulmonary

488
00:25:52,970 --> 00:25:55,097
resuscitation
had greatly increased

489
00:25:55,222 --> 00:25:57,808
the number of people
who had been to the brink

490
00:25:57,933 --> 00:25:59,101
of death and recovered.

491
00:25:59,226 --> 00:26:01,020
So there were
a lot of cases.

492
00:26:01,145 --> 00:26:04,148
Dr. Sabom: Some of them say,
well, I reached a place where

493
00:26:04,273 --> 00:26:05,024
I felt like

494
00:26:05,149 --> 00:26:08,068
if I went any further,
I wouldn't come back.

495
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:11,280
And I get questioned
about this a lot.

496
00:26:11,405 --> 00:26:12,197
And the question

497
00:26:12,323 --> 00:26:15,200
is, well, is that really
a barrier or not?

498
00:26:15,326 --> 00:26:16,660
And my answer is,

499
00:26:16,785 --> 00:26:18,537
well, I've not been able
to interview

500
00:26:18,662 --> 00:26:20,331
any of them
that didn't come back.

501
00:26:20,456 --> 00:26:21,623
So I assume

502
00:26:21,749 --> 00:26:25,210
that if they do go over
that, it very well may be

503
00:26:25,419 --> 00:26:26,670
a point of no return.

504
00:26:26,795 --> 00:26:28,714
I have no evidence
to suggest that,

505
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:32,426
except I have no evidence
to refute it either.

506
00:26:35,846 --> 00:26:37,473
Raymond Moody heard
about our work,

507
00:26:37,598 --> 00:26:40,476
so he called us up
to his house,

508
00:26:40,601 --> 00:26:43,520
along with two
other researchers.

509
00:26:44,063 --> 00:26:46,690
Dr. Moody: And that's when I met
all of these wonderful people

510
00:26:46,815 --> 00:26:50,069
Bruce Grayson and Mike
Sabom and Kenneth Ring.

511
00:26:51,111 --> 00:26:53,447
Dr. Sabom: We got together,
we compared notes

512
00:26:53,572 --> 00:26:55,032
and we said, you know,
we ought to form

513
00:26:55,157 --> 00:26:58,702
a group and share with one
another what we're doing.

514
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,788
And it eventually
turned out to be

515
00:27:00,913 --> 00:27:03,207
what's now known as IANDS

516
00:27:03,332 --> 00:27:06,293
International Association
and Near-Death Studies.

517
00:27:10,047 --> 00:27:12,716
Mr. Burke: After five years of
doing research, Dr. Sabom

518
00:27:12,966 --> 00:27:15,928
ends up writing
a book convinced that

519
00:27:16,220 --> 00:27:19,848
this really does show that
there is life after death.

520
00:27:19,973 --> 00:27:22,643
But then even more
fascinating, he publishes

521
00:27:22,768 --> 00:27:23,727
in the Journal of the

522
00:27:23,852 --> 00:27:25,396
American Medical
Association

523
00:27:25,521 --> 00:27:27,815
his findings and what
changed his mind.

524
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,275
Dr. Long: I was in my
residency training

525
00:27:30,401 --> 00:27:32,152
and I was going through
a bound journal

526
00:27:32,277 --> 00:27:34,029
looking for a cancer
related article.

527
00:27:34,154 --> 00:27:37,032
And completely by accident,
I found in the title

528
00:27:37,157 --> 00:27:39,952
of an article the
term Near-Death experience.

529
00:27:42,371 --> 00:27:44,123
Dr. Long: Everything I knew as
a doctor said,

530
00:27:44,248 --> 00:27:46,792
This is medically
inexplicable.

531
00:27:46,917 --> 00:27:47,918
In this article

532
00:27:48,043 --> 00:27:49,545
all around
the world, were people

533
00:27:49,670 --> 00:27:51,880
having these experiences
while they were unconscious

534
00:27:52,005 --> 00:27:53,799
or even clinically dead

535
00:27:53,924 --> 00:27:55,843
who can't be mystified
by that question

536
00:27:55,968 --> 00:27:58,929
of what happens
after you die?

537
00:28:00,806 --> 00:28:03,267
Dr. Moody: As I've traveled
around the world to China

538
00:28:03,392 --> 00:28:05,102
and Japan and India

539
00:28:05,227 --> 00:28:08,147
and North and South America
and all over Europe,

540
00:28:08,564 --> 00:28:11,150
people all over the world
use the word light,

541
00:28:11,275 --> 00:28:12,693
but they say that it's not

542
00:28:12,818 --> 00:28:13,777
the light that comes

543
00:28:13,902 --> 00:28:16,196
from a light bulb
or from the sun.

544
00:28:16,321 --> 00:28:18,949
But universally
the description is that the

545
00:28:19,074 --> 00:28:21,618
light of complete
compassion and love.

546
00:28:21,743 --> 00:28:24,621
And people also say
that they learned

547
00:28:24,746 --> 00:28:27,124
from their experience
that what we call

548
00:28:27,249 --> 00:28:30,836
death is a transition
into some other reality.

549
00:28:31,170 --> 00:28:33,088
So they
lose their fear of death.

550
00:28:38,469 --> 00:28:41,972
Don Piper: The day was
January 18th, 1989,

551
00:28:42,097 --> 00:28:45,100
very chilly by
South Texas standards.

552
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:48,103
{\an8}I almost stopped
in a little town

553
00:28:48,228 --> 00:28:50,898
{\an8}before you cross
all the bridges to get some

554
00:28:51,023 --> 00:28:52,816
{\an8}some coffee. I didn't.

555
00:28:52,941 --> 00:28:55,277
The people who were
on the highway ahead of me,

556
00:28:55,402 --> 00:28:57,529
she wanted some coffee.
They pulled over.

557
00:28:57,654 --> 00:29:00,616
I drove past them
and they came in behind me,

558
00:29:00,782 --> 00:29:03,785
Dick and Anita,
Onarecker.

559
00:29:04,453 --> 00:29:09,500
{\an8}It was foggy
and a slight rain.

560
00:29:09,625 --> 00:29:11,835
{\an8}It was wet

561
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,880
and I knew I would have to
cross some bridges.

562
00:29:16,381 --> 00:29:19,009
It was an old bridge

563
00:29:19,134 --> 00:29:22,095
and it is very narrow.

564
00:29:22,638 --> 00:29:25,474
I'm just really focused
on getting back

565
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:28,560
to Alvin, Texas,
where I lived.

566
00:29:28,852 --> 00:29:30,646
I was headed back that way

567
00:29:30,771 --> 00:29:32,272
and looking forward
to seeing my family,

568
00:29:32,397 --> 00:29:35,734
which I missed for three
days, especially my wife.

569
00:29:37,152 --> 00:29:38,320
What I didn't know

570
00:29:38,445 --> 00:29:41,406
was that steep
embankment was there.

571
00:29:42,866 --> 00:29:44,826
It's like going on a tunnel

572
00:29:44,952 --> 00:29:46,870
because you had this
big metal superstructure

573
00:29:46,995 --> 00:29:49,915
above you,
on both sides of you.

574
00:29:50,415 --> 00:29:52,167
You can see only really

575
00:29:52,292 --> 00:29:55,212
to the end of the bridge
and then

576
00:29:55,504 --> 00:29:57,506
the highway goes up.

577
00:29:57,631 --> 00:30:00,634
So I couldn't see beyond
the end of the bridge.

578
00:30:01,051 --> 00:30:02,970
Out of nowhere, a tractor

579
00:30:03,095 --> 00:30:06,014
trailer truck
hit the car in his lane,

580
00:30:06,265 --> 00:30:09,393
then came over to my lane
and hit me head on.

581
00:30:22,990 --> 00:30:25,450
When we approached
the bridge,

582
00:30:25,576 --> 00:30:27,953
the first thing on
the right

583
00:30:28,078 --> 00:30:31,123
was this large 18 wheeler,
and then the next

584
00:30:31,248 --> 00:30:33,667
thing on the left,
I believe, was a gray car.

585
00:30:33,792 --> 00:30:36,712
It had a single older
man in it.

586
00:30:37,796 --> 00:30:40,966
Then the next thing
was Don's red car

587
00:30:41,091 --> 00:30:43,385
that was all crushed
and smashed.

588
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:46,054
So we were only
four vehicles on the bridge

589
00:30:46,179 --> 00:30:47,472
at that point.

590
00:30:47,598 --> 00:30:48,473
Swen Spujt: I was stationed

591
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:50,100
{\an8}in Walker
County at the time.

592
00:30:50,225 --> 00:30:51,768
{\an8}I said,
How does it look for him?

593
00:30:51,893 --> 00:30:53,687
And they said,
"not good at all."

594
00:30:53,812 --> 00:30:56,064
That was, you know, just
something I never forgot.

595
00:30:56,189 --> 00:30:57,608
I mean, was seeing that

596
00:30:57,733 --> 00:30:59,901
it was a miserable,
miserable day.

597
00:31:00,027 --> 00:31:01,528
Traffic is backed
up from miles

598
00:31:01,653 --> 00:31:03,655
in both directions
because at that time

599
00:31:03,780 --> 00:31:06,116
there was the only bridge
across that lake,

600
00:31:06,241 --> 00:31:07,284
in fact, Dick Onarecker.

601
00:31:07,451 --> 00:31:08,201
And Anita

602
00:31:08,327 --> 00:31:11,830
had to leave their car
and walk up on the bridge

603
00:31:11,955 --> 00:31:14,791
to get to where
the accident was.

604
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:16,918
Police approached
Dick first and said,

605
00:31:17,044 --> 00:31:18,962
Don't even bother
with that man.

606
00:31:19,087 --> 00:31:21,590
I've already checked him
and he has no pulse.

607
00:31:21,715 --> 00:31:23,592
And then Dick did check,

608
00:31:23,717 --> 00:31:26,136
and he could not
identify any pulse.

609
00:31:27,721 --> 00:31:30,641
You could see from this
wrecking yard picture that

610
00:31:30,766 --> 00:31:33,727
the trajectory of the truck
as it went over.

611
00:31:34,978 --> 00:31:37,773
When the truck hit me,
it literally took

612
00:31:37,898 --> 00:31:40,859
this arm over my shoulder
into the back seat.

613
00:31:41,902 --> 00:31:42,903
The steering wheel

614
00:31:43,028 --> 00:31:46,198
actually went horizontal
and into my chest

615
00:31:47,282 --> 00:31:50,202
My head had banged up
against the metal side

616
00:31:50,327 --> 00:31:53,288
of the interior of the car.

617
00:31:53,538 --> 00:31:56,541
My right leg
was broken at the knee,

618
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,504
but I must have slid on
the seat a little sideways

619
00:32:01,171 --> 00:32:02,881
because it hit
from that angle.

620
00:32:03,006 --> 00:32:06,051
And when it did, it
literally severed my left

621
00:32:06,176 --> 00:32:09,179
leg just above the knee,

622
00:32:10,097 --> 00:32:13,225
and four and a half
inches of the femur

623
00:32:13,558 --> 00:32:17,062
was ejected from the car
and actually never found.

624
00:32:17,938 --> 00:32:19,314
I had been
killed instantly.

625
00:32:19,439 --> 00:32:21,566
My heart was not beating,

626
00:32:21,692 --> 00:32:23,318
so it was not
pumping blood.

627
00:32:24,611 --> 00:32:27,614
I died on the bridge.

628
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,082
Dr. Neal: I'm a board certified
orthopedic spine surgeon

629
00:32:37,833 --> 00:32:42,754
{\an8}and physicians
spend their entire career

630
00:32:44,172 --> 00:32:45,549
{\an8}evading death.

631
00:32:45,674 --> 00:32:49,052
{\an8}We believe that
if we are smart enough,

632
00:32:49,428 --> 00:32:51,346
if we are
well-trained enough,

633
00:32:51,471 --> 00:32:54,808
and if we do a good enough
job that we can control

634
00:32:54,933 --> 00:32:57,936
the outcomes, that we can
control the variables

635
00:32:58,061 --> 00:33:01,064
and we can cheat death.

636
00:33:03,775 --> 00:33:06,862
My husband and I
were avid kayakers.

637
00:33:07,946 --> 00:33:10,031
Kayaking is

638
00:33:10,157 --> 00:33:13,160
both challenging
and exhilarating.

639
00:33:13,618 --> 00:33:16,371
We began to go down
the river.

640
00:33:16,496 --> 00:33:19,124
We went over
the first couple of drops.

641
00:33:19,249 --> 00:33:22,294
It was very high flow,
very high

642
00:33:22,419 --> 00:33:24,421
current, strong current.

643
00:33:24,546 --> 00:33:27,257
There is another client
that sort of bobbled

644
00:33:27,382 --> 00:33:29,301
her way past me and

645
00:33:29,426 --> 00:33:32,429
ended up sideways at the
entrance to the chute.

646
00:33:33,263 --> 00:33:36,183
So my only option
was to veer over

647
00:33:36,308 --> 00:33:38,435
and go over the
main part of the waterfall

648
00:33:43,064 --> 00:33:45,192
and the
front end of my boat

649
00:33:45,317 --> 00:33:48,278
became pinned

650
00:33:51,531 --> 00:33:53,325
and the boat and I
were then

651
00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:56,953
completely submerged under
8 to 10 feet of water.

652
00:34:04,711 --> 00:34:08,006
I recognized that I was
probably going to drown.

653
00:34:12,469 --> 00:34:15,388
I would think about
the fact that

654
00:34:15,514 --> 00:34:18,558
I must be dead,
but I didn't feel dead.

655
00:34:19,351 --> 00:34:22,312
I felt more alive
than I've ever felt.

656
00:34:24,689 --> 00:34:27,150
I felt this
incredible experience

657
00:34:27,275 --> 00:34:30,195
like I was just
part of the water.

658
00:34:30,737 --> 00:34:33,740
I felt magnificent, actually.

659
00:34:34,783 --> 00:34:37,869
I knew that
I was being held by Christ

660
00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:42,082
as purely as I know,

661
00:34:42,457 --> 00:34:43,708
anything.

662
00:34:45,418 --> 00:34:48,004
I know it sounds crazy,

663
00:34:48,129 --> 00:34:52,217
but it's just
something that

664
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:56,263
is outside of our language.

665
00:34:57,472 --> 00:34:59,975
Peter Panagore: We went up a
world famous climb,

666
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:02,602
maybe 500 feet,
three pitches up

667
00:35:02,727 --> 00:35:04,479
David Ditchfield: As the train
started pulling out,

668
00:35:04,604 --> 00:35:06,481
I just thought, This is it.
I'm going to die.

669
00:35:06,606 --> 00:35:08,650
I took a corner
to a 90 miles

670
00:35:08,775 --> 00:35:11,236
an hour, flipped over,
and it landed on the top.

671
00:35:11,361 --> 00:35:13,655
All I remember seeing was a
big white, white light.

672
00:35:13,780 --> 00:35:15,907
The knife had gone all
the way through my liver.

673
00:35:16,032 --> 00:35:19,077
I had a punctured lung and
I started feeling myself

674
00:35:19,744 --> 00:35:20,745
leave my body.

675
00:35:20,871 --> 00:35:22,747
You were in the hospital
bed, right?

676
00:35:22,873 --> 00:35:24,457
But you had left your body
and you

677
00:35:24,583 --> 00:35:26,501
Betty Eadie: My body was on
the bed and my spirit ...

678
00:35:26,626 --> 00:35:28,169
and I could see
in every direction.

679
00:35:28,295 --> 00:35:30,005
{\an8}Up on the ceiling
looking down.

680
00:35:30,130 --> 00:35:32,883
{\an8}There was this feeling of a
presence. It felt like God

681
00:35:33,008 --> 00:35:34,801
Not like this guy
up in the sky.

682
00:35:34,968 --> 00:35:36,011
And that was God.

683
00:35:36,136 --> 00:35:37,137
I just know it was God

684
00:35:37,262 --> 00:35:39,097
The meaning of life,
of everything,

685
00:35:39,222 --> 00:35:41,182
It was unlike anything
I've ever experienced.

686
00:35:41,308 --> 00:35:42,893
I have no fear of death.

687
00:35:43,018 --> 00:35:45,604
...it's with total knowledge
and unconditional love...

688
00:35:45,729 --> 00:35:48,607
It was all the love that
is in the universe.

689
00:35:48,773 --> 00:35:50,901
Death is not the end.
It's probably the beginning.

690
00:35:51,026 --> 00:35:52,319
I looked into his eyes,
It was like

691
00:35:52,444 --> 00:35:54,404
I was looking
at forever inside of him,

692
00:35:54,529 --> 00:35:55,822
and I could see the love
he had for me.

693
00:35:55,947 --> 00:35:57,657
You know,
people don't believe you

694
00:35:57,782 --> 00:36:00,285
when you say the story,
but it's just so real.

695
00:36:03,955 --> 00:36:07,125
Dr. Neal: Almost 30 minutes
had gone by.

696
00:36:07,292 --> 00:36:11,296
Enough time had passed
that they had shifted from

697
00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:15,216
a rescue mode to purely
a body recovery mode.

698
00:36:16,176 --> 00:36:20,221
I could see this
bloated purple body

699
00:36:20,347 --> 00:36:24,434
and I never felt alive
and then dead.

700
00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:27,646
I never felt conscious
and unconscious.

701
00:36:28,063 --> 00:36:30,774
I felt conscious
and then more conscious

702
00:36:30,899 --> 00:36:35,153
I felt alive
and then more alive.

703
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,909
Dr. Sabom: I came into this
thing skeptical, mean

704
00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,995
{\an8}I could have very easily
blown this whole thing off.

705
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,580
{\an8}If you go
to the resuscitation

706
00:36:45,705 --> 00:36:46,790
{\an8}for 20 minutes

707
00:36:46,915 --> 00:36:47,582
{\an8}and you've been

708
00:36:47,707 --> 00:36:50,627
{\an8}without oxygen
for 20 minutes or whatever,

709
00:36:51,544 --> 00:36:53,838
you're going to lose
some neurons,

710
00:36:53,964 --> 00:36:55,173
You're going to
have brain damage.

711
00:36:55,298 --> 00:36:56,967
You may not
live either.

712
00:36:57,092 --> 00:36:59,761
You'll die a
neurologic death

713
00:36:59,886 --> 00:37:02,847
general rule is, the longer
without the oxygen.

714
00:37:03,181 --> 00:37:06,851
Normally, the more brain
damage you're going to have,

715
00:37:07,227 --> 00:37:10,897
and it's progressive
until it's restored.

716
00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:14,317
CBS News: A new study may
provide answers

717
00:37:14,442 --> 00:37:15,527
{\an8}to the age old question

718
00:37:15,652 --> 00:37:18,613
{\an8}What happens to our brains
when we die?

719
00:37:20,615 --> 00:37:24,661
{\an8}Dr. Zemmar: The brain has always
been the most fascinating

720
00:37:24,869 --> 00:37:26,079
{\an8}and the most interesting

721
00:37:26,204 --> 00:37:27,956
{\an8}organ to me
because to the world

722
00:37:28,081 --> 00:37:30,208
{\an8}it is completely
unexplored.

723
00:37:30,333 --> 00:37:32,252
I was working in Vancouver
at the Vancouver

724
00:37:32,377 --> 00:37:33,378
General Hospital.

725
00:37:33,503 --> 00:37:35,797
This was the 87 year
old gentleman.

726
00:37:35,922 --> 00:37:38,842
He came during
the emergency shift

727
00:37:39,426 --> 00:37:43,304
with a bleed between
the brain and the skull.

728
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:46,391
We call it
a subdural hematoma.

729
00:37:46,725 --> 00:37:49,019
And we decided to operate.

730
00:37:49,144 --> 00:37:50,687
We removed the skull.

731
00:37:50,812 --> 00:37:52,022
We removed the bleeding.

732
00:37:52,147 --> 00:37:53,815
He did fairly well
after the surgery

733
00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:55,859
for about three days.

734
00:37:56,109 --> 00:37:58,737
And then he started
having seizures.

735
00:37:58,862 --> 00:38:02,574
So we went and applied
an EEG to see

736
00:38:02,699 --> 00:38:04,701
where the seizures
are coming from

737
00:38:04,826 --> 00:38:06,327
and how to treat them.

738
00:38:06,453 --> 00:38:08,329
Once we had this applied,

739
00:38:08,621 --> 00:38:10,457
he had a heart
attack and died.

740
00:38:12,625 --> 00:38:14,669
So that left us with

741
00:38:14,794 --> 00:38:18,214
the rare recording
of the human brain

742
00:38:18,339 --> 00:38:20,050
that went from a life
to death.

743
00:38:21,051 --> 00:38:24,763
It's the first ever
recording of a dying human

744
00:38:24,888 --> 00:38:27,891
brain, one that happened
entirely by chance.

745
00:38:28,016 --> 00:38:29,851
We've heard about people

746
00:38:29,976 --> 00:38:32,395
{\an8}before who have faced
near death experiences.

747
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,522
{\an8}Describe this moment

748
00:38:34,647 --> 00:38:36,232
where they were
the important moments

749
00:38:36,357 --> 00:38:38,234
in their life
flashed before their head.

750
00:38:38,359 --> 00:38:39,778
Is that
what we're talking about?

751
00:38:39,903 --> 00:38:41,488
Is that what this is?

752
00:38:41,613 --> 00:38:42,781
- Dr.
From what
this case of

753
00:38:42,906 --> 00:38:43,740
One tells us

754
00:38:43,865 --> 00:38:45,784
all the things
they are consistently

755
00:38:45,909 --> 00:38:48,495
being described
by people who undergo

756
00:38:48,620 --> 00:38:50,080
near-death experience.

757
00:38:50,205 --> 00:38:52,916
These guys have exhibited
these brain waves

758
00:38:53,041 --> 00:38:55,960
that exactly the same ones
we're measuring

759
00:38:56,086 --> 00:38:59,464
when we record the activity
of this patient

760
00:38:59,839 --> 00:39:00,507
30 seconds

761
00:39:00,632 --> 00:39:02,217
before the heart stops
beating

762
00:39:02,342 --> 00:39:05,303
and 30 seconds after
the heart stops beating,

763
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:07,889
that we found
was quite astonishing.

764
00:39:08,932 --> 00:39:11,101
After searching
and searching,

765
00:39:11,226 --> 00:39:14,437
we had not found anybody
at the time when we wrote

766
00:39:14,562 --> 00:39:16,481
the manuscript
and submitted it

767
00:39:16,606 --> 00:39:19,901
that had full brain
recordings

768
00:39:20,026 --> 00:39:21,820
from the dying human brain.

769
00:39:21,945 --> 00:39:24,948
Under acute
clinical environments.

770
00:39:25,615 --> 00:39:28,743
brain waves
are always present

771
00:39:29,035 --> 00:39:31,746
{\an8}in our brain.

772
00:39:31,871 --> 00:39:34,999
{\an8}They differ in frequency,

773
00:39:35,125 --> 00:39:39,629
{\an8}meaning how many times
per second they oscillate.

774
00:39:40,004 --> 00:39:44,884
The high frequency waves
are called gamma waves.

775
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:48,138
Then the lower ones
we call them

776
00:39:48,263 --> 00:39:51,266
beta, theta,
alpha and delta waves.

777
00:39:51,641 --> 00:39:54,811
Those are slower
frequent oscillations.

778
00:39:54,936 --> 00:39:58,940
We found
an increased interplay

779
00:39:59,065 --> 00:40:02,026
of these oscillatory bands
with each other.

780
00:40:03,361 --> 00:40:06,573
We looked at how this,
for example,

781
00:40:07,323 --> 00:40:10,743
theta waves that are
known for memory recall,

782
00:40:10,869 --> 00:40:14,539
how do they couple
with gamma waves?

783
00:40:14,956 --> 00:40:17,542
And we found an increased
coupling of the

784
00:40:17,667 --> 00:40:20,545
two after a heart
stopped beating.

785
00:40:20,670 --> 00:40:23,464
The brain is a prediction
machine that is designed

786
00:40:23,590 --> 00:40:24,424
for survival.

787
00:40:25,592 --> 00:40:26,634
So we see something,

788
00:40:26,759 --> 00:40:27,886
we interpret the signal,

789
00:40:28,011 --> 00:40:29,637
we generate a response

790
00:40:30,388 --> 00:40:33,850
in all kinds of responses
that the brain generates.

791
00:40:34,809 --> 00:40:38,605
The only one we can measure
right now is movement.

792
00:40:39,898 --> 00:40:42,775
We can't measure
what we call thinking.

793
00:40:42,901 --> 00:40:44,360
Can you measure emotions?

794
00:40:44,485 --> 00:40:45,153
Feelings?

795
00:40:45,278 --> 00:40:46,321
I don't know what
to answer you.

796
00:40:46,446 --> 00:40:48,239
We can't measure
all these things.

797
00:40:48,364 --> 00:40:51,367
We know that the brain
somehow does these things.

798
00:40:51,993 --> 00:40:53,077
We may never understand

799
00:40:53,203 --> 00:40:54,621
what exactly happens.

800
00:40:54,746 --> 00:40:56,080
And maybe that's not the most

801
00:40:56,206 --> 00:40:57,916
important thing either.

802
00:40:58,499 --> 00:40:59,626
If the science

803
00:40:59,751 --> 00:41:02,587
can contribute even
a minute percentage

804
00:41:02,712 --> 00:41:04,797
and can shed light

805
00:41:04,923 --> 00:41:08,218
on the nature
of the human brain dying.

806
00:41:08,593 --> 00:41:10,011
If I could go to
my patients

807
00:41:10,136 --> 00:41:11,554
and I could tell them,

808
00:41:11,679 --> 00:41:15,308
it may be that your loved
one is replaying

809
00:41:15,433 --> 00:41:17,268
some of the memories
of their life.

810
00:41:18,895 --> 00:41:21,898
It somehow
makes things easier.

811
00:41:22,106 --> 00:41:24,776
It tells them
they're not suffering.

812
00:41:24,901 --> 00:41:27,862
That, I think, would help
patients in that

813
00:41:27,987 --> 00:41:30,949
tremendously
difficult time.

814
00:41:41,459 --> 00:41:43,378
{\an8}Growing up in South Korea.

815
00:41:43,503 --> 00:41:45,004
{\an8}I grew up in a
Buddhist home.

816
00:41:45,129 --> 00:41:46,506
{\an8}Ever since the age
of six, seven,

817
00:41:46,631 --> 00:41:50,551
{\an8}I was asking questions
like, Why are humans made?

818
00:41:50,677 --> 00:41:52,679
Why are we born?

819
00:41:52,804 --> 00:41:55,223
What is the purpose
of mankind?

820
00:41:55,348 --> 00:41:57,392
Why am I here?

821
00:41:57,517 --> 00:41:58,935
The Buddhist
monks at the temple

822
00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:00,561
would say things like,
Oh yeah, Steve,

823
00:42:00,687 --> 00:42:02,397
you can go to heaven,
you can go to hell,

824
00:42:02,522 --> 00:42:03,314
come back,

825
00:42:03,439 --> 00:42:04,482
you can get reincarnated

826
00:42:04,607 --> 00:42:06,567
into an animal
or a different species.

827
00:42:06,693 --> 00:42:08,528
They taught you how to do
right and do wrong,

828
00:42:08,653 --> 00:42:10,697
and try to earn
your salvation.

829
00:42:10,822 --> 00:42:13,658
My mother, who was trained
as a registered nurse,

830
00:42:13,783 --> 00:42:14,450
she got recruited

831
00:42:14,575 --> 00:42:17,537
by a VA veterans
hospital in Boston.

832
00:42:18,371 --> 00:42:20,081
You know, she prepared
the way for us to come.

833
00:42:20,206 --> 00:42:22,458
So I came with my younger
brother in elementary school.

834
00:42:26,671 --> 00:42:27,463
The older I got,

835
00:42:27,588 --> 00:42:30,091
middle school and
even up to freshman year,

836
00:42:30,216 --> 00:42:31,968
and I remember
feeling a lot of confusion.

837
00:42:32,093 --> 00:42:33,803
I remember looking
in the mirror and saying,

838
00:42:33,928 --> 00:42:35,513
How come I'm the only one?

839
00:42:35,638 --> 00:42:37,849
How come I have
to be Korean?

840
00:42:37,974 --> 00:42:40,393
And it was a big struggle
and led me to become

841
00:42:40,518 --> 00:42:41,352
a little rebellious.

842
00:42:41,477 --> 00:42:44,188
Like I joined the garage
band. I tried to...

843
00:42:44,314 --> 00:42:45,356
I think I tried
a little harder

844
00:42:45,481 --> 00:42:48,443
than others
to try to fit in.

845
00:42:49,235 --> 00:42:51,779
And I just remember,
you know, always feeling

846
00:42:51,904 --> 00:42:54,782
a little empty, feeling
confusion and emptiness.

847
00:42:54,907 --> 00:42:56,242
You know, from high school.

848
00:42:59,037 --> 00:43:00,997
I remember
in the summer of 1998,

849
00:43:01,122 --> 00:43:03,041
we will get high
in the morning,

850
00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:05,752
in the afternoon, in the
evening, the whole summer.

851
00:43:05,877 --> 00:43:08,254
I don't remember
being sober for an hour.

852
00:43:08,379 --> 00:43:11,215
And my mom and brother
were getting super worried.

853
00:43:11,341 --> 00:43:12,842
I called the Buddhist
temple for help.

854
00:43:12,967 --> 00:43:14,052
They didn't help either.

855
00:43:14,177 --> 00:43:14,969
So I realized, like,

856
00:43:15,094 --> 00:43:18,556
this is something that is
beyond my power ability to

857
00:43:19,015 --> 00:43:20,683
to to save myself from.

858
00:43:23,019 --> 00:43:24,687
You know, people
say when they see demons

859
00:43:24,812 --> 00:43:26,230
or evil spirits,
they might think

860
00:43:26,356 --> 00:43:28,941
somebody comes
with a pitchfork and horns.

861
00:43:29,067 --> 00:43:30,485
But I had an open eye

862
00:43:30,610 --> 00:43:32,653
vision of all Asian
grandpa coming.

863
00:43:32,779 --> 00:43:34,572
He's talking to me
like I'm talking to you.

864
00:43:34,697 --> 00:43:35,490
He said, Hey, Steve,
I know you're

865
00:43:35,615 --> 00:43:36,366
having a hard time.

866
00:43:36,532 --> 00:43:39,660
If you commit suicide
and take your own life,

867
00:43:40,036 --> 00:43:42,997
then I can give you 50,000
less years of hell.

868
00:43:43,122 --> 00:43:44,707
And I'm like,
That's a great deal.

869
00:43:46,501 --> 00:43:47,960
I went to the kitchen.

870
00:43:48,086 --> 00:43:50,171
I grabbed the biggest
knife I could find.

871
00:43:50,296 --> 00:43:52,131
Got on my knees.

872
00:43:52,256 --> 00:43:53,091
So I grabbed a knife

873
00:43:53,216 --> 00:43:54,842
and I cut my
neck open here,

874
00:43:55,426 --> 00:43:58,096
which, you know,
was very painful.

875
00:43:58,429 --> 00:44:00,098
My mom sees the
event happening,

876
00:44:00,223 --> 00:44:01,933
so she calls 911.

877
00:44:02,058 --> 00:44:04,102
The cops came,
and then there's

878
00:44:04,227 --> 00:44:06,229
the Grandpa spirit is
still there speaking to me,

879
00:44:06,354 --> 00:44:07,105
says, Steve,
you got to hurry up.

880
00:44:07,230 --> 00:44:08,523
You're going
to miss your chance.

881
00:44:08,648 --> 00:44:09,440
Go for the stomach.

882
00:44:09,565 --> 00:44:14,153
So I cut my stomach open,
which actually is,

883
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,406
you know, the scars
go down all the way here.

884
00:44:16,531 --> 00:44:18,741
I lost a big part
of my blood.

885
00:44:19,909 --> 00:44:22,912
The cops came
and whacked me with a bat.

886
00:44:23,204 --> 00:44:24,997
I dropped the knife.

887
00:44:25,123 --> 00:44:27,583
I remember
losing consciousness.

888
00:44:27,708 --> 00:44:29,001
The whole living was
bloody red.

889
00:44:29,127 --> 00:44:31,796
My mom was crying.
I remember hearing her.

890
00:44:31,921 --> 00:44:33,005
They put me
in the stretcher

891
00:44:33,131 --> 00:44:34,882
because already I'm
very damaged.

892
00:44:35,007 --> 00:44:37,260
I'm losing blood,
like at a very fast rate

893
00:44:37,385 --> 00:44:39,387
and I'm going in of conscious.

894
00:44:39,512 --> 00:44:41,222
The grandpa spirits gone

895
00:44:41,347 --> 00:44:43,641
and then it was just into
the unknown after that.

896
00:44:44,225 --> 00:44:45,435
I remember coming out,

897
00:44:45,852 --> 00:44:49,480
seeing my body and then
seeing the E.R. room.

898
00:44:49,605 --> 00:44:53,943
I remember going through
just darkness, like even

899
00:44:54,068 --> 00:44:57,071
seeing rocks and stones
around me just falling.

900
00:44:57,738 --> 00:45:00,241
It just felt like I was
falling in an elevator.

901
00:45:00,366 --> 00:45:03,327
And I don't know how to
put it into words exactly,

902
00:45:03,661 --> 00:45:05,455
but I knew I was going
to a different place.

903
00:45:05,580 --> 00:45:07,123
There was still real,

904
00:45:07,248 --> 00:45:09,292
more real than anything
here on Earth.

905
00:45:09,417 --> 00:45:10,585
I was still fully
conscious.

906
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:11,627
Everything's happening,

907
00:45:11,752 --> 00:45:13,129
but now it's like

908
00:45:13,254 --> 00:45:14,380
there's different
set of rules,

909
00:45:14,505 --> 00:45:17,300
there's a different set
of awarenesses.

910
00:45:17,425 --> 00:45:19,093
And you're saying
goodbye to Earth.

911
00:45:19,218 --> 00:45:21,179
I knew I was saying
goodbye to Earth.

912
00:45:21,304 --> 00:45:24,265
And going to
another place of eternity.

913
00:45:24,515 --> 00:45:26,893
And then God came to me
and like a ball of light,

914
00:45:27,018 --> 00:45:28,603
that became
like a triangle.

915
00:45:29,437 --> 00:45:31,689
Behind it I saw the city,

916
00:45:31,814 --> 00:45:34,025
I looked up and it was
glittering like gold.

917
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:35,359
The walls were gold.

918
00:45:36,736 --> 00:45:37,612
I don't know how it works,

919
00:45:37,737 --> 00:45:40,656
but it's definitely
a place we go.

920
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,118
I heard a voice
before I woke up.

921
00:45:44,243 --> 00:45:45,661
I love you.

922
00:45:45,786 --> 00:45:48,748
And I open my eyes and I'm
in the emergency room.

923
00:45:48,873 --> 00:45:51,667
I was like,
Oh my God, I'm alive.

924
00:45:51,792 --> 00:45:53,294
So first of all, I was
so thankful I was alive.

925
00:45:53,419 --> 00:45:55,671
I look around,
my mom's there,

926
00:45:55,796 --> 00:45:58,508
she's crying, grabbing
my hand, son, you know,

927
00:45:58,633 --> 00:46:00,635
you, you regained
consciousness.

928
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,054
And I was still trying
to process what happened,

929
00:46:03,179 --> 00:46:04,597
but I just knew
I was back on Earth.

930
00:46:06,724 --> 00:46:09,352
They said it took two
surgeries to cover

931
00:46:09,477 --> 00:46:10,645
the blood vessels
that were cut.

932
00:46:10,770 --> 00:46:13,397
A specialist had to fly in
at the last minute,

933
00:46:13,523 --> 00:46:15,024
and if he was late,
they told me I would

934
00:46:15,149 --> 00:46:16,359
have been bye, bye forever.

935
00:46:16,484 --> 00:46:18,402
My heart and blood wouldn't
go back up.

936
00:46:18,528 --> 00:46:20,112
We just kept
sinking, sinking, sinking,

937
00:46:20,238 --> 00:46:21,572
during the whole surgery.

938
00:46:21,697 --> 00:46:23,199
And they said
it was a miracle.

939
00:46:23,324 --> 00:46:24,242
Good timing.

940
00:46:28,913 --> 00:46:32,291
I know one thing, we all
live once and die once.

941
00:46:32,416 --> 00:46:34,794
And there is
judgment after.

942
00:46:42,552 --> 00:46:43,386
Dr. Sabom: I think
that there are

943
00:46:43,511 --> 00:46:47,306
a lot of people that do
take advantage of this.

944
00:46:47,598 --> 00:46:49,850
The novelty
and the fascination

945
00:46:49,976 --> 00:46:52,853
of this experience.

946
00:46:52,979 --> 00:46:55,064
We're all to die
and we all want to know

947
00:46:55,189 --> 00:46:56,732
what's going to happen
once that happens.

948
00:46:56,857 --> 00:46:57,900
So, I mean,

949
00:46:58,025 --> 00:47:01,612
this is speaking to us all.
And of great importance.

950
00:47:02,738 --> 00:47:05,741
That can be abused.

951
00:47:06,951 --> 00:47:09,412
Some of these these cases

952
00:47:09,537 --> 00:47:11,872
are transmitted through

953
00:47:11,998 --> 00:47:14,709
several different people
before they get in print.

954
00:47:14,834 --> 00:47:16,252
And they get
a lot of attention

955
00:47:16,377 --> 00:47:17,461
because they're fantastic.

956
00:47:17,587 --> 00:47:19,046
But what I've tried to

957
00:47:19,171 --> 00:47:22,466
do is remove
some of the subjectivity

958
00:47:23,134 --> 00:47:26,053
to these experiences.

959
00:47:26,178 --> 00:47:28,347
And put data out there

960
00:47:28,472 --> 00:47:31,892
that's been scientifically,
rigorously collected.

961
00:47:32,977 --> 00:47:34,812
There's no way
you can verify

962
00:47:34,937 --> 00:47:37,315
the transcendental part
of the experience.

963
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,899
The person feels like they go

964
00:47:39,025 --> 00:47:41,360
to an otherworldly
environment

965
00:47:41,485 --> 00:47:42,987
as opposed
to their environment

966
00:47:43,112 --> 00:47:44,822
right there in the room
with them.

967
00:47:44,947 --> 00:47:46,949
{\an8}Mr. Burke: What really convinced
me and what convinced

968
00:47:47,074 --> 00:47:51,162
{\an8}many skeptical doctors,
oncologist, cardiologist,

969
00:47:51,412 --> 00:47:54,999
{\an8}is that when people
initially leave their body,

970
00:47:55,291 --> 00:47:56,626
they say that many times

971
00:47:56,751 --> 00:47:57,835
they were in the room

972
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,880
still where they were being
resuscitated or worked on

973
00:48:01,047 --> 00:48:01,714
many times up

974
00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:04,759
near the ceiling,
looking down, watching.

975
00:48:04,925 --> 00:48:07,053
They felt incredible peace,
even though

976
00:48:07,178 --> 00:48:08,137
it was chaotic.

977
00:48:09,513 --> 00:48:11,098
oftentimes in the room

978
00:48:11,223 --> 00:48:13,225
where they were
working on their body,

979
00:48:14,226 --> 00:48:16,437
When they would come back,

980
00:48:16,562 --> 00:48:19,523
they were able to give
corroborative evidence

981
00:48:19,982 --> 00:48:21,609
that they actually saw

982
00:48:21,734 --> 00:48:22,860
what was going on
in the room,

983
00:48:22,985 --> 00:48:24,654
even though
they were unconscious

984
00:48:24,779 --> 00:48:26,947
at the time they
were worked on.

985
00:48:27,073 --> 00:48:30,034
They shouldn't have
been able to see this.

986
00:48:30,493 --> 00:48:33,829
Dr. Sabom: Autoscopic means
self-visualization.

987
00:48:33,954 --> 00:48:37,375
They were visualizing
themself from the ceiling,

988
00:48:37,541 --> 00:48:41,128
lying in bed, lifeless,
or being resuscitated.

989
00:48:42,546 --> 00:48:45,174
That is the verifiable part

990
00:48:45,299 --> 00:48:47,426
of a near-death experience,
where you can go back

991
00:48:47,551 --> 00:48:49,345
and either verify what
they said they saw

992
00:48:49,470 --> 00:48:51,222
or what
actually occurred.

993
00:48:51,347 --> 00:48:53,349
And that's what I wanted.

994
00:48:53,474 --> 00:48:54,517
That was the main thing

995
00:48:54,642 --> 00:48:56,769
that got me hooked
on this thing.

996
00:48:56,894 --> 00:48:58,771
And I paid
very little attention

997
00:48:58,896 --> 00:49:01,399
to the tunnel, the light,
the deceased relatives

998
00:49:01,524 --> 00:49:03,818
and friends,
the religious figures.

999
00:49:03,943 --> 00:49:07,196
For me as a
cardiologist, scientist,

1000
00:49:07,321 --> 00:49:08,489
and a physician,

1001
00:49:08,614 --> 00:49:10,199
I wanted some verification,

1002
00:49:10,324 --> 00:49:12,034
I wanted
some medical records.

1003
00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:14,870
I wanted to talk to people
who had been there

1004
00:49:14,995 --> 00:49:17,998
and seen what had
happened in the room.

1005
00:49:26,382 --> 00:49:27,842
Dr. Greene: Back in
the early 1990s,

1006
00:49:27,967 --> 00:49:30,553
when I was a resident
training and neurosurgery

1007
00:49:30,678 --> 00:49:33,681
at Phoenix and at the Barrow
Neurological Institute,

1008
00:49:33,806 --> 00:49:36,392
one of the best places
to go in the world.

1009
00:49:36,517 --> 00:49:39,437
It was a destination center
for neurosurgery.

1010
00:49:40,146 --> 00:49:41,522
{\an8}I was on the Chairman
Service,

1011
00:49:41,647 --> 00:49:44,066
{\an8}Dr. Robert Spetzler

1012
00:49:44,191 --> 00:49:47,403
and Dr. Spetzler is
world renowned.

1013
00:49:47,528 --> 00:49:49,196
There was a patient
who came to him

1014
00:49:49,321 --> 00:49:51,240
named Pamela Reynolds,

1015
00:49:52,575 --> 00:49:55,119
Dr. Spetzler: What we're looking
at is the aneurysm that she had.

1016
00:49:55,244 --> 00:49:57,246
Which is at the very
base of the brain.

1017
00:49:57,371 --> 00:49:59,331
{\an8}This is the balloon
that can burst

1018
00:49:59,457 --> 00:50:02,209
{\an8}and cause this
incredible catastrophe.

1019
00:50:02,334 --> 00:50:05,045
It's all the way at the
very base of the brain.

1020
00:50:05,171 --> 00:50:06,839
And that is why it's so

1021
00:50:06,964 --> 00:50:08,466
incredibly difficult
to get there.

1022
00:50:08,591 --> 00:50:10,593
Dr. Greene: The anatomical
location of the basal

1023
00:50:10,718 --> 00:50:13,721
artery is a neurosurgeons
no man's land.

1024
00:50:14,472 --> 00:50:16,432
She underwent an operation.

1025
00:50:16,557 --> 00:50:17,308
Again,

1026
00:50:17,433 --> 00:50:20,060
pretty unusual operation
called cardiac standstill.

1027
00:50:20,186 --> 00:50:22,021
I came in several times
into the operating room

1028
00:50:22,146 --> 00:50:23,355
because it's a cardiac

1029
00:50:23,481 --> 00:50:25,483
standstill case
and they're fascinating.

1030
00:50:25,608 --> 00:50:28,402
Dr. Sabom: If you were going to
do a laboratory experiment,

1031
00:50:28,527 --> 00:50:30,196
this is the perfect
experiment.

1032
00:50:30,321 --> 00:50:32,198
She was put on the
operating room table

1033
00:50:32,323 --> 00:50:35,284
and immediately put under
general anesthesia.

1034
00:50:35,743 --> 00:50:38,120
Dr. Greene: The cardiac
standstill operation requires

1035
00:50:38,245 --> 00:50:41,248
teams of medical providers,
surgical providers,

1036
00:50:41,457 --> 00:50:42,750
all of which is designed to:

1037
00:50:42,875 --> 00:50:46,045
1. drop the temperature of
a person's body.

1038
00:50:46,170 --> 00:50:49,507
2. Drain out all the blood
out of their body.

1039
00:50:49,632 --> 00:50:53,552
3. Keep them in a state
of suspended animation,

1040
00:50:54,011 --> 00:50:55,888
shut down brain function.

1041
00:50:56,013 --> 00:50:57,640
And you've actually
stopped the heart.

1042
00:51:00,100 --> 00:51:02,520
Dr. Sabom: They had these things
in her ears

1043
00:51:02,645 --> 00:51:06,524
that emitted 95 to 100
decibel clicks.

1044
00:51:06,649 --> 00:51:08,192
If the click went off

1045
00:51:08,317 --> 00:51:11,403
and you saw spike
on the EEG

1046
00:51:11,529 --> 00:51:13,781
that was measuring
the brain stem,

1047
00:51:13,906 --> 00:51:16,534
then you knew
the brainstem was active.

1048
00:51:16,659 --> 00:51:18,077
Dr. Greene: No heart
that's beating,

1049
00:51:18,202 --> 00:51:21,831
a brain that's no
longer functioning.

1050
00:51:21,956 --> 00:51:23,415
Dr. Sabom: And what they had to
do is get it

1051
00:51:23,541 --> 00:51:26,377
so that those clicks
were eliciting no

1052
00:51:26,502 --> 00:51:29,421
brainstem reactivity, i.e.

1053
00:51:29,547 --> 00:51:31,006
it was flatlined.

1054
00:51:32,508 --> 00:51:35,261
So was pretty
much totally isolated

1055
00:51:35,386 --> 00:51:37,638
from the environment
physically.

1056
00:51:37,763 --> 00:51:41,183
And medically,
she was in a--

1057
00:51:41,308 --> 00:51:43,686
that's why they call
procedure standstill.

1058
00:51:43,811 --> 00:51:45,563
Everything
was at a standstill.

1059
00:51:46,814 --> 00:51:47,982
Tom Wilkinson: She would be
clinically dead

1060
00:51:48,107 --> 00:51:50,317
for a whole hour
of the operation.

1061
00:51:52,444 --> 00:51:55,281
Dr. Sabom: She had a three part
near-death experience.

1062
00:51:55,406 --> 00:51:57,741
The first part
was out-of-body,

1063
00:51:57,867 --> 00:51:59,285
autoscopic part,

1064
00:51:59,410 --> 00:52:02,663
When Spetzler first started
up the brain saw

1065
00:52:03,414 --> 00:52:06,208
she heard the conversation
between Spetzler and

1066
00:52:06,333 --> 00:52:07,501
the surgeon

1067
00:52:07,626 --> 00:52:09,753
about the artery
being too small

1068
00:52:09,879 --> 00:52:11,005
in her right
femoral artery,

1069
00:52:11,130 --> 00:52:13,549
and they had to switch
over to the left.

1070
00:52:13,674 --> 00:52:14,717
The visual part.

1071
00:52:14,842 --> 00:52:18,721
She saw the bone saw,
which I didn't even know

1072
00:52:18,846 --> 00:52:21,765
what it looked like myself
as a cardiologist.

1073
00:52:21,891 --> 00:52:23,475
{\an8}And I was then
looking down at the body.

1074
00:52:23,601 --> 00:52:26,937
{\an8}I knew it was my body,
but I didn't care.

1075
00:52:27,688 --> 00:52:29,815
My vantage
point was sort of

1076
00:52:29,940 --> 00:52:32,067
sitting on the doctor's
shoulder.

1077
00:52:32,192 --> 00:52:35,279
I remember the instrument
in his hand.

1078
00:52:36,113 --> 00:52:39,909
It looked like the handle
of my electric toothbrush.

1079
00:52:40,034 --> 00:52:42,995
Dr. Sabom: And then she said
that there was this tray

1080
00:52:43,495 --> 00:52:47,291
of instruments
to the right of Spetzler,

1081
00:52:47,541 --> 00:52:50,252
that it looked like
the socket wrench set that

1082
00:52:50,377 --> 00:52:51,587
her father used to have.

1083
00:52:53,130 --> 00:52:56,091
And then the other stuff
was the same autoscopic.

1084
00:52:56,216 --> 00:52:58,427
And in between
those two experiences,

1085
00:52:58,552 --> 00:52:59,637
which she relates

1086
00:52:59,762 --> 00:53:02,765
the experience
as a continuous experience,

1087
00:53:03,390 --> 00:53:05,225
she had the transcendental
experience.

1088
00:53:05,351 --> 00:53:06,560
I felt a presence.

1089
00:53:06,685 --> 00:53:08,062
I sort of turned around

1090
00:53:08,187 --> 00:53:10,564
to look at a
pin-point of light.

1091
00:53:10,689 --> 00:53:12,858
Dr. Sabom: Well, how do you know
the transcendental

1092
00:53:12,983 --> 00:53:14,610
experience happened

1093
00:53:14,735 --> 00:53:16,779
when the blood was drained
out of her head?

1094
00:53:16,904 --> 00:53:18,906
Well, you don't.

1095
00:53:19,031 --> 00:53:21,283
All you can do is infer it.

1096
00:53:21,408 --> 00:53:22,576
You can't prove it.

1097
00:53:22,701 --> 00:53:24,745
The other two are
time anchored.

1098
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:27,081
The middle is not.

1099
00:53:30,084 --> 00:53:31,377
Dr. Greene: Pam came back,

1100
00:53:32,169 --> 00:53:34,296
I believe,
the following day.

1101
00:53:35,214 --> 00:53:36,882
As with every patient,
I'm rounding on her

1102
00:53:37,007 --> 00:53:39,635
in the intensive care unit
before the chairman rounds

1103
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,763
and she's awake
talking with me.

1104
00:53:43,263 --> 00:53:44,515
You know, usually ask the

1105
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:45,975
typical questions
How are you feeling?

1106
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:48,644
{\an8}after that tube was removed
from her by extubation

1107
00:53:48,769 --> 00:53:50,396
{\an8}and she was able
to control her airway

1108
00:53:50,521 --> 00:53:52,564
{\an8}and she was becoming
more lucid?

1109
00:53:52,690 --> 00:53:54,692
Well, she
had a lot to talk about.

1110
00:53:55,693 --> 00:53:56,652
She began to

1111
00:53:56,777 --> 00:53:59,780
describe some details
about her operation.

1112
00:54:00,322 --> 00:54:02,533
And as she spoke,

1113
00:54:02,658 --> 00:54:04,868
I became spooked.

1114
00:54:07,246 --> 00:54:09,707
She talked about her
blood vessels and her

1115
00:54:09,832 --> 00:54:12,793
groin, being canulated
and being too small.

1116
00:54:14,336 --> 00:54:17,297
She talked about her
heart being shocked twice.

1117
00:54:18,549 --> 00:54:21,552
Giving me details that
she just shouldn't know.

1118
00:54:22,052 --> 00:54:25,055
I sort of put the kibosh
on the conversation.

1119
00:54:25,723 --> 00:54:28,017
"Pam, you need
to get some rest.

1120
00:54:28,142 --> 00:54:29,643
I'll come back later."

1121
00:54:29,768 --> 00:54:30,686
I went to my chairman

1122
00:54:30,811 --> 00:54:33,480
and told Dr. Spetzler,

1123
00:54:33,605 --> 00:54:35,858
"You need to talk
with Pam Reynolds.

1124
00:54:36,692 --> 00:54:39,695
She's describing stuff that
she just shouldn't know.

1125
00:54:40,195 --> 00:54:42,698
This ain't right."

1126
00:54:44,074 --> 00:54:45,034
Functionally speaking,

1127
00:54:45,159 --> 00:54:46,952
Pam, was dead.

1128
00:54:47,995 --> 00:54:50,873
Dr. Moody: Typically, when
people are coming out of a dream

1129
00:54:50,998 --> 00:54:51,707
in the morning,

1130
00:54:51,832 --> 00:54:54,752
they feel like they're
coming back to reality.

1131
00:54:55,085 --> 00:54:58,505
But people who have
a near-death experience

1132
00:54:58,630 --> 00:55:01,383
say that is they
go into that experience,

1133
00:55:01,633 --> 00:55:04,511
it's this life
that becomes dreamlike.

1134
00:55:04,636 --> 00:55:07,598
{\an8}People feel that
when they, from the world's

1135
00:55:07,723 --> 00:55:11,435
{\an8}point of view, are dying,
they actually are waking up

1136
00:55:11,935 --> 00:55:15,230
{\an8}to a reality that
this state of existence

1137
00:55:15,355 --> 00:55:17,900
that we're in now
seemed like a dream or

1138
00:55:18,025 --> 00:55:19,318
as though you're asleep.

1139
00:55:25,115 --> 00:55:25,991
Dr. Sabom: I think
the near-death

1140
00:55:26,116 --> 00:55:29,286
experience is where
science meets religion.

1141
00:55:29,411 --> 00:55:32,372
There is a big difference
between proof and evidence.

1142
00:55:32,581 --> 00:55:34,124
This is all evidence,

1143
00:55:34,249 --> 00:55:36,794
but enough evidence
at some point

1144
00:55:36,919 --> 00:55:42,508
makes it so close to proof
that most people would say

1145
00:55:43,884 --> 00:55:44,593
it's right,

1146
00:55:44,718 --> 00:55:46,136
it's real.

1147
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,683
I got to watch what I say
because I don't want to

1148
00:55:51,934 --> 00:55:54,937
unnecessarily
alienate people.

1149
00:55:55,145 --> 00:55:57,981
I think skepticism is good

1150
00:55:58,107 --> 00:56:00,025
skepticism, true
skepticism.

1151
00:56:00,150 --> 00:56:02,236
But rigidity is not.

1152
00:56:02,361 --> 00:56:04,113
In other words,
if you have an

1153
00:56:04,238 --> 00:56:07,282
ideological opposition
to something

1154
00:56:07,825 --> 00:56:11,370
and you fight tooth
and nail to support it,

1155
00:56:11,578 --> 00:56:14,581
or at least advocate it

1156
00:56:15,374 --> 00:56:17,543
and refuse
to look at the other side,

1157
00:56:17,668 --> 00:56:19,086
that's not being objective.

1158
00:56:19,211 --> 00:56:20,796
{\an8}Dr. Long: There's a lot
about the afterlife

1159
00:56:20,921 --> 00:56:22,381
{\an8}that we don't know
for sure.

1160
00:56:22,506 --> 00:56:25,384
{\an8}We'll all know for real
only after we die.

1161
00:56:25,509 --> 00:56:27,553
{\an8}And not completely
before then.

1162
00:56:28,137 --> 00:56:30,806
Mr. Burke: There have been lots
of alternate theories

1163
00:56:30,931 --> 00:56:32,850
fighter pilots syndrome.

1164
00:56:34,226 --> 00:56:34,893
You're pulling G's,

1165
00:56:35,018 --> 00:56:37,020
It feels like you're
going through a tunnel.

1166
00:56:37,146 --> 00:56:38,021
Some say

1167
00:56:38,147 --> 00:56:41,775
psychedelic drugs like
DMT or LSD or mescaline,

1168
00:56:42,776 --> 00:56:45,070
vibrant colors and, and,

1169
00:56:45,195 --> 00:56:48,157
maybe going to
another place,

1170
00:56:48,740 --> 00:56:51,660
Dr. Long: You name it, DMT,
Ketamine, LSD,

1171
00:56:51,785 --> 00:56:52,911
those are

1172
00:56:53,036 --> 00:56:55,622
generally illicit
substances that produce

1173
00:56:55,747 --> 00:56:56,790
hallucinatory effects.

1174
00:56:56,915 --> 00:56:58,375
And in fact, many people

1175
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:00,377
that take these
illicit substances

1176
00:57:00,502 --> 00:57:03,380
and the difference between
the experience they have

1177
00:57:03,505 --> 00:57:06,175
and the typical near-death
experience

1178
00:57:06,300 --> 00:57:07,676
is very striking.

1179
00:57:08,385 --> 00:57:11,013
Mr. Burke: The problem is that

1180
00:57:11,138 --> 00:57:14,516
all of those might describe
one aspect.

1181
00:57:16,101 --> 00:57:19,062
You have people
and we're talking thousands

1182
00:57:19,188 --> 00:57:22,900
and thousands of people
all around the globe, old,

1183
00:57:23,025 --> 00:57:26,612
young, sighted
people, blind people.

1184
00:57:27,112 --> 00:57:29,489
And they're saying
the same thing,

1185
00:57:29,615 --> 00:57:32,367
though on the other side,
blind people can see

1186
00:57:32,492 --> 00:57:35,120
they have to adjust to it,
to describing things

1187
00:57:35,245 --> 00:57:38,081
that they see, but
they see the same things.

1188
00:57:38,207 --> 00:57:41,251
And there was one study
done with 23 blind people,

1189
00:57:41,376 --> 00:57:43,962
14 of them
blind from birth,

1190
00:57:44,087 --> 00:57:45,214
two of them that I report

1191
00:57:45,339 --> 00:57:48,300
about describe the light
coming out of everything.

1192
00:57:49,092 --> 00:57:51,386
Dr. Long: There's the near-death
experience of Marta.

1193
00:57:51,511 --> 00:57:54,848
She was a five-year-old
girl and totally blind.

1194
00:57:55,307 --> 00:57:58,060
Marta went into a lake
and drowned,

1195
00:57:58,185 --> 00:58:00,896
and her consciousness rose
above her body.

1196
00:58:01,021 --> 00:58:04,274
She described vividly
details of birds' feathers,

1197
00:58:04,399 --> 00:58:07,319
birds' eyes,
details on telephone poles.

1198
00:58:07,486 --> 00:58:10,697
It's remarkable to me
how someone totally blind

1199
00:58:11,114 --> 00:58:12,199
can be fascinated

1200
00:58:12,324 --> 00:58:14,660
by mundane
things that you and I

1201
00:58:14,785 --> 00:58:16,536
would not consider
to be so exciting.

1202
00:58:16,662 --> 00:58:18,789
Seeing this
for the first time

1203
00:58:18,914 --> 00:58:20,999
while she's unconscious

1204
00:58:21,124 --> 00:58:23,001
and below the
surface of the water

1205
00:58:23,126 --> 00:58:25,629
and yet having a
near-death experience.

1206
00:58:25,754 --> 00:58:29,299
Mr. Burke: So how do you get
a lucid experience

1207
00:58:29,925 --> 00:58:32,511
that happens both
for people who have had

1208
00:58:34,054 --> 00:58:35,472
hallucinogenic

1209
00:58:35,597 --> 00:58:38,267
drugs potentially
in the hospital or,

1210
00:58:38,392 --> 00:58:40,060
you know, anesthesia,

1211
00:58:40,185 --> 00:58:41,186
But they're saying

1212
00:58:41,311 --> 00:58:44,231
the same things as those
who have had no anesthesia

1213
00:58:44,356 --> 00:58:46,984
and the same things
that little kids say,

1214
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:48,777
the same things that people
from different

1215
00:58:48,902 --> 00:58:50,487
religious
backgrounds and cultures

1216
00:58:50,612 --> 00:58:53,740
say you don't have mass
hallucinations.

1217
00:59:01,164 --> 00:59:02,958
The moment
the truck struck me,

1218
00:59:03,083 --> 00:59:06,044
I was standing
at the gates of Heaven.

1219
00:59:11,842 --> 00:59:14,636
And it was magnificent.

1220
00:59:14,761 --> 00:59:17,097
It was like the
inside of an oyster.

1221
00:59:17,222 --> 00:59:20,809
It was pearl and dazzling,

1222
00:59:21,059 --> 00:59:24,062
almost like it was living.

1223
00:59:25,564 --> 00:59:27,858
It just looked that way
because of the light

1224
00:59:27,983 --> 00:59:30,944
reflecting off the gate.

1225
00:59:32,070 --> 00:59:33,655
{\an8}Heaven is light.

1226
00:59:33,780 --> 00:59:34,698
{\an8}God is light.

1227
00:59:34,823 --> 00:59:36,867
{\an8}It's... it's astounding.

1228
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:40,537
One of the most
difficult things

1229
00:59:40,662 --> 00:59:42,247
about talking about heaven

1230
00:59:42,372 --> 00:59:44,791
is that you have to do it
with earthly words,

1231
00:59:44,916 --> 00:59:48,545
and there are no earthly
words that do it justice.

1232
00:59:55,719 --> 00:59:58,513
Mr. Black: I did think
for a moment, okay, I died.

1233
00:59:58,638 --> 01:00:00,223
Okay, I'm gone.

1234
01:00:00,349 --> 01:00:01,350
And was I sad?

1235
01:00:01,475 --> 01:00:03,310
No, not at all.

1236
01:00:06,355 --> 01:00:07,022
I wasn't worried

1237
01:00:07,147 --> 01:00:08,523
about my mom or dad

1238
01:00:08,648 --> 01:00:11,068
or what they would think
or my--, nothing.

1239
01:00:11,193 --> 01:00:14,029
{\an8}I was only looking forward
to where I was going

1240
01:00:14,154 --> 01:00:17,616
{\an8}and it was nothing but joy
and peace, love and unity.

1241
01:00:25,457 --> 01:00:28,460
I was surrounded by people
I knew and loved in life.

1242
01:00:30,087 --> 01:00:32,923
The first person
I saw was my grandfather.

1243
01:00:33,048 --> 01:00:35,217
I was very close
to my grandfather.

1244
01:00:35,342 --> 01:00:38,053
The last time I saw him,
he was in a casket.

1245
01:00:38,178 --> 01:00:41,014
At his funeral, he did
not look good.

1246
01:00:41,139 --> 01:00:44,101
Now I'm standing
at the gates of Heaven,

1247
01:00:44,226 --> 01:00:46,144
and there he is
to greet me.

1248
01:00:46,269 --> 01:00:47,562
And he looked really good.

1249
01:00:47,687 --> 01:00:49,022
He extended his hands to me

1250
01:00:49,147 --> 01:00:51,149
and spoke a language
I've never heard before,

1251
01:00:51,274 --> 01:00:55,445
but fully understood and
said, Welcome home, Donnie.

1252
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:05,831
Mr. Black: I recognized this
group of people.

1253
01:01:05,997 --> 01:01:11,586
These people are looking
at me with such love.

1254
01:01:14,589 --> 01:01:18,260
They're all seemingly
at the prime of their life.

1255
01:01:18,635 --> 01:01:19,636
And these people

1256
01:01:19,761 --> 01:01:23,348
were greeting me
and they were so delighted

1257
01:01:23,723 --> 01:01:26,726
that I was there,

1258
01:01:27,352 --> 01:01:30,647
{\an8}Dr. Neal: And I knew that they
were there for me,

1259
01:01:30,772 --> 01:01:34,151
{\an8}to welcome me,
to greet me, to to love me,

1260
01:01:34,276 --> 01:01:36,278
to make me feel known.

1261
01:01:36,945 --> 01:01:39,448
And I knew that
they had known loved me

1262
01:01:39,573 --> 01:01:42,492
as long as I've existed.

1263
01:01:46,246 --> 01:01:48,665
The music was phenomenal.

1264
01:01:48,790 --> 01:01:51,793
Thousands of songs at the
same time without chaos,

1265
01:01:52,461 --> 01:01:53,795
all manner of music,

1266
01:01:54,129 --> 01:01:55,464
instrumental,

1267
01:01:55,881 --> 01:01:57,632
choruses,

1268
01:01:59,843 --> 01:02:03,180
Astoundingly,
they just invade you.

1269
01:02:03,305 --> 01:02:06,266
I mean, you're permeated
by the music.

1270
01:02:11,271 --> 01:02:14,983
My senses were
incredibly vivid,

1271
01:02:15,108 --> 01:02:18,862
you know, touch and taste
and feel and hearing.

1272
01:02:18,987 --> 01:02:20,113
It was just all.

1273
01:02:20,238 --> 01:02:21,490
It's just the most
real thing

1274
01:02:21,615 --> 01:02:22,991
that's ever happened to me.

1275
01:02:25,494 --> 01:02:28,914
After I greeted
the people, they parted

1276
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:32,042
and I could see
through the gate.

1277
01:02:32,876 --> 01:02:34,836
There was
a long boulevard that

1278
01:02:34,961 --> 01:02:36,796
really bisects the city

1279
01:02:36,922 --> 01:02:39,925
and it appears
to be constructed of gold.

1280
01:02:40,467 --> 01:02:43,470
So many of the things
that we experience here

1281
01:02:43,762 --> 01:02:46,515
are there,
but much infinitely

1282
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,559
more glorious and perfect.

1283
01:02:49,726 --> 01:02:52,145
I wanted to climb that hill

1284
01:02:52,270 --> 01:02:54,397
and fall at the
feet of the great

1285
01:02:54,523 --> 01:02:56,566
God of all
creation and say,

1286
01:02:56,691 --> 01:02:59,402
"Thank you for
letting me come."

1287
01:02:59,528 --> 01:03:00,820
That was my objective.

1288
01:03:07,285 --> 01:03:09,913
Mr. Burke: Not every near-death
experience is a good one.

1289
01:03:10,038 --> 01:03:13,375
23% of those who come
forward talking about them

1290
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,003
talk about how they had
hellish experiences.

1291
01:03:26,846 --> 01:03:27,639
At that time,

1292
01:03:27,764 --> 01:03:30,684
I, I felt really empty.

1293
01:03:30,809 --> 01:03:33,061
{\an8}It just seemed like
the best thing to do

1294
01:03:33,186 --> 01:03:35,063
{\an8}was just to die
at that point.

1295
01:03:35,188 --> 01:03:37,357
{\an8}If I die,
then it's game over.

1296
01:03:37,482 --> 01:03:39,901
{\an8}And if I die, then the pain
and the suffering,

1297
01:03:40,026 --> 01:03:41,403
the depression,

1298
01:03:41,528 --> 01:03:43,947
the darkness,
all this is going to stop.

1299
01:03:44,072 --> 01:03:46,157
Well,
if I do enough cocaine,

1300
01:03:46,283 --> 01:03:47,909
then maybe my heart
will stop beating

1301
01:03:48,034 --> 01:03:50,287
because it feels like it's
racing out of my chest.

1302
01:03:57,711 --> 01:03:58,920
And I didn't see
a bright light.

1303
01:03:59,045 --> 01:03:59,963
I saw a black tunnel.

1304
01:04:00,088 --> 01:04:01,673
It felt like somebody
grabbed me and dropped me

1305
01:04:01,798 --> 01:04:04,217
in this outer darkness.

1306
01:04:04,342 --> 01:04:06,928
As I started racing down
this tunnel,

1307
01:04:07,053 --> 01:04:08,430
it seemed like infinity.

1308
01:04:08,555 --> 01:04:11,349
It was like
a bottomless pit.

1309
01:04:11,474 --> 01:04:13,977
I don't know how,
but I was no longer high.

1310
01:04:14,102 --> 01:04:17,105
All my senses
were at 1,000.

1311
01:04:18,690 --> 01:04:20,442
I knew that I had died,

1312
01:04:20,567 --> 01:04:22,068
and it was one of
the scariest moments

1313
01:04:22,193 --> 01:04:24,154
in my entire life.

1314
01:04:25,363 --> 01:04:27,324
And I'm racing
down this tunnel

1315
01:04:27,449 --> 01:04:28,992
that seems like forever,

1316
01:04:29,117 --> 01:04:31,620
like a thousand miles an hour

1317
01:04:31,745 --> 01:04:33,663
as I'm just freefalling.

1318
01:04:36,124 --> 01:04:38,335
If I'm going to hell,
there's got to be a mistake

1319
01:04:38,460 --> 01:04:40,420
because I never
killed anybody.

1320
01:04:40,545 --> 01:04:41,504
I didn't rob a bank.

1321
01:04:41,630 --> 01:04:43,548
I mean, I'm a good person.

1322
01:04:43,673 --> 01:04:44,674
I'm not a bad guy.

1323
01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:47,010
The only person I hurt
was myself.

1324
01:04:47,135 --> 01:04:50,221
When I began to justify
how good I was,

1325
01:04:50,847 --> 01:04:52,474
it went faster

1326
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:54,601
like 2,000 miles an hour.

1327
01:04:56,269 --> 01:04:58,146
It speeded up the process.

1328
01:04:58,271 --> 01:05:01,232
Like, now you're
really going to Hell.

1329
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,694
I remember at that point
I cried out

1330
01:05:04,819 --> 01:05:07,781
with all desperation.

1331
01:05:09,574 --> 01:05:13,244
I said, "God, you need to
come help me right now.

1332
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:17,082
because I need you.

1333
01:05:17,916 --> 01:05:20,919
If you really exist,
I need your help.

1334
01:05:21,461 --> 01:05:22,712
So you got to come help me.

1335
01:05:22,837 --> 01:05:25,757
Please, God,
I need your help."

1336
01:05:30,637 --> 01:05:31,388
Mr. Storm: In the bed

1337
01:05:31,513 --> 01:05:34,432
that I had been in
was this big slab of meat.

1338
01:05:34,641 --> 01:05:36,685
And when I looked
at the face,

1339
01:05:36,810 --> 01:05:39,854
it bore an amazing
resemblance to me.

1340
01:05:41,773 --> 01:05:44,526
And I could not understand

1341
01:05:44,651 --> 01:05:47,070
how that could resemble me.

1342
01:05:47,195 --> 01:05:49,280
But I was perfectly
well standing there,

1343
01:05:49,406 --> 01:05:52,325
perfectly alive,
looking at this,

1344
01:05:52,534 --> 01:05:53,451
hunk of meat.

1345
01:05:54,953 --> 01:05:56,788
The other thing
that bothered me was that

1346
01:05:56,913 --> 01:05:59,874
my wife would not
respond to me.

1347
01:06:01,710 --> 01:06:03,628
{\an8}Well, at first I started
talking in a nice voice,

1348
01:06:03,753 --> 01:06:05,296
{\an8}and then I started yelling
at her, like, you know,

1349
01:06:06,631 --> 01:06:08,967
{\an8}what the
hell is going on here?

1350
01:06:09,092 --> 01:06:11,136
Look at me. Talk to me.

1351
01:06:11,261 --> 01:06:12,178
You know,
I'm all better.

1352
01:06:12,303 --> 01:06:14,848
You know, what's that
thing in the bed?

1353
01:06:14,973 --> 01:06:16,516
How did it get there?

1354
01:06:18,143 --> 01:06:21,146
I was very upset,
very distressed.

1355
01:06:21,479 --> 01:06:24,315
And then I heard people out
in the hallway

1356
01:06:24,441 --> 01:06:27,318
outside the well-lit room

1357
01:06:28,111 --> 01:06:32,449
in the darkish-gray,
hazy hallway.

1358
01:06:40,415 --> 01:06:42,292
And there was
a group of people standing

1359
01:06:42,417 --> 01:06:46,004
outside the light
of the room in the hallway.

1360
01:06:46,671 --> 01:06:47,547
I said, "I'm sick.

1361
01:06:47,672 --> 01:06:49,215
I need a doctor."

1362
01:06:50,717 --> 01:06:53,303
And they said, "We know.

1363
01:06:53,428 --> 01:06:54,971
We know all about you.

1364
01:06:55,096 --> 01:06:56,389
It's time for you to
come with us."

1365
01:06:56,514 --> 01:06:59,058
So I thought that they were

1366
01:06:59,184 --> 01:07:02,145
hospital personnel
to take me to a doctor.

1367
01:07:05,398 --> 01:07:06,649
When I left the room

1368
01:07:06,775 --> 01:07:08,026
and went into the hall,

1369
01:07:09,444 --> 01:07:11,196
I can't explain how I knew,

1370
01:07:11,321 --> 01:07:13,198
I couldn't go back
into the room.

1371
01:07:13,323 --> 01:07:14,574
The door didn't close,

1372
01:07:14,699 --> 01:07:16,242
but I knew that
it was impossible

1373
01:07:16,367 --> 01:07:18,995
for me to go back
into the light of the room.

1374
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:21,331
So I hesitated and
the people became very...

1375
01:07:21,456 --> 01:07:23,374
Hurry up,
Let's go. Let's go.

1376
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:25,210
We can't wait anymore.
You know.

1377
01:07:25,335 --> 01:07:27,962
We've been here a long time
waiting for you.

1378
01:07:28,087 --> 01:07:28,838
Hurry up.

1379
01:07:28,963 --> 01:07:32,175
So I gave in
and went with them

1380
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:34,469
and they immediately
surrounded me

1381
01:07:34,594 --> 01:07:37,180
and moved me forward
into that greyness.

1382
01:07:48,399 --> 01:07:52,570
As we moved along,
I could not perceive walls,

1383
01:07:52,904 --> 01:07:56,324
ceiling, any
feature at all.

1384
01:07:56,950 --> 01:07:58,743
And we walked
and walked and walked.

1385
01:07:58,868 --> 01:08:00,537
And after a while
I was like, okay,

1386
01:08:00,662 --> 01:08:02,705
this hospital's
not that big, you know?

1387
01:08:02,831 --> 01:08:05,750
I mean, we walked miles
now, and it's like,

1388
01:08:05,959 --> 01:08:07,627
where's the stairs?

1389
01:08:07,752 --> 01:08:08,962
You know,
where's the up and down?

1390
01:08:09,087 --> 01:08:11,130
Where's the walls?
And there was nothing.

1391
01:08:11,256 --> 01:08:12,757
We just walked and walked.

1392
01:08:15,593 --> 01:08:16,761
So I was asking the people

1393
01:08:16,886 --> 01:08:18,763
around me like,
this isn't the hospital,

1394
01:08:18,888 --> 01:08:21,266
This isn't right, you know,
where are we?

1395
01:08:21,391 --> 01:08:22,100
Stuff like that, and,

1396
01:08:22,225 --> 01:08:25,562
their response
was, "Shut up, be quiet.

1397
01:08:25,854 --> 01:08:26,521
Keep moving.

1398
01:08:26,646 --> 01:08:28,231
Move, move, move!"

1399
01:08:30,650 --> 01:08:33,194
They'd say,
"You're going to find out.

1400
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:35,405
You'll find out.

1401
01:08:35,530 --> 01:08:38,491
You're going to get there."

1402
01:08:39,742 --> 01:08:41,494
There was a lot of
people around us,

1403
01:08:41,619 --> 01:08:42,954
possibly hundreds,

1404
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:44,622
I don't know.
They were

1405
01:08:44,747 --> 01:08:47,792
being very vulgar, very
threatening, very scary.

1406
01:08:48,918 --> 01:08:50,753
I'm in abject darkness.

1407
01:08:50,879 --> 01:08:53,256
I have absolutely no
idea which way

1408
01:08:53,381 --> 01:08:55,633
is forward, backward.
I mean,

1409
01:08:55,758 --> 01:08:57,802
all I knew was I wanted to
get away from them.

1410
01:09:00,597 --> 01:09:03,266
They said, "No,
you've got further to go."

1411
01:09:03,391 --> 01:09:06,311
And they started to push
and shove me.

1412
01:09:07,145 --> 01:09:09,981
And I fought back.

1413
01:09:10,106 --> 01:09:13,109
They began by punching,
shoving, kicking.

1414
01:09:14,193 --> 01:09:17,697
And then they started
biting, scratching

1415
01:09:18,907 --> 01:09:21,784
and tearing me apart, literally.

1416
01:09:21,910 --> 01:09:24,120
disemboweling me,
gouging my eyes.

1417
01:09:24,245 --> 01:09:25,788
And it was all accompanied

1418
01:09:25,914 --> 01:09:27,582
with a great deal
of laughter and joy.

1419
01:09:32,670 --> 01:09:35,048
I thought about

1420
01:09:35,173 --> 01:09:36,841
my whole life
and everything seemed like

1421
01:09:36,966 --> 01:09:38,843
what was the point.

1422
01:09:38,968 --> 01:09:40,803
And I realized
that my relationships

1423
01:09:40,929 --> 01:09:43,848
with my mother
and father were a disaster.

1424
01:09:44,182 --> 01:09:47,185
My relationship with
my sisters wasn't good.

1425
01:09:47,393 --> 01:09:50,647
My relationship with
my wife was very troubled.

1426
01:09:52,857 --> 01:09:55,276
I was not proud or pleased

1427
01:09:55,401 --> 01:09:57,612
with my relationship
with my two children.

1428
01:09:59,906 --> 01:10:01,824
I sank into

1429
01:10:01,950 --> 01:10:05,662
a pit of despair
and hopelessness

1430
01:10:05,787 --> 01:10:08,039
that I can't begin
to describe.

1431
01:10:12,418 --> 01:10:17,048
My mind offered up a memory
of myself as a little boy

1432
01:10:17,173 --> 01:10:20,134
going to a Sunday school
singing "Jesus Loves Me"

1433
01:10:21,010 --> 01:10:22,303
When I was a little boy

1434
01:10:22,428 --> 01:10:24,514
and I was afraid,
like having nightmares

1435
01:10:24,639 --> 01:10:27,684
at night or whatever,
I would pray to Him and

1436
01:10:28,226 --> 01:10:30,186
He would chase the
lions and tigers.

1437
01:10:30,311 --> 01:10:32,313
and bears away.

1438
01:10:32,438 --> 01:10:34,983
And as a child,
it was, like, mostly

1439
01:10:35,108 --> 01:10:37,026
in the image
of like a superhero.

1440
01:10:37,151 --> 01:10:39,195
Jesus was like a superhero.

1441
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:40,196
And so...

1442
01:10:40,530 --> 01:10:41,239
that's it.

1443
01:10:41,572 --> 01:10:43,074
That was all I knew.

1444
01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:46,744
So I called out to him
in complete desperation,

1445
01:10:47,996 --> 01:10:51,082
A tiny little star
appeared in the sky,

1446
01:10:52,542 --> 01:10:54,627
and very rapidly
it got brighter

1447
01:10:54,752 --> 01:10:57,672
and brighter and brighter.

1448
01:10:58,297 --> 01:11:00,091
Mr. Black: I started moving

1449
01:11:00,216 --> 01:11:03,428
helplessly
without direction.

1450
01:11:03,553 --> 01:11:05,388
I had nothing to do
with this.

1451
01:11:05,513 --> 01:11:07,348
I started moving
out of the room.

1452
01:11:07,473 --> 01:11:09,684
I next realized that

1453
01:11:09,809 --> 01:11:12,937
I have left the hospital
and now I'm traveling

1454
01:11:13,646 --> 01:11:16,649
almost like a rocket ship,
just moving

1455
01:11:16,899 --> 01:11:18,317
out of this atmosphere.

1456
01:11:20,611 --> 01:11:23,614
As if in deep space.

1457
01:11:24,991 --> 01:11:28,369
Mr. Storm: I realized we were
not on the ground anymore.

1458
01:11:28,494 --> 01:11:31,456
We were moving upward,
straight upwards.

1459
01:11:33,416 --> 01:11:35,501
So I've got my face
buried in His chest

1460
01:11:35,626 --> 01:11:36,461
hanging on to Him.

1461
01:11:36,586 --> 01:11:39,088
I'm like, I don't want to
let me go because I,

1462
01:11:39,213 --> 01:11:40,590
I'm afraid if I let go,

1463
01:11:40,715 --> 01:11:42,550
or if he lets go, I'm
going to fall back

1464
01:11:42,675 --> 01:11:44,427
into that horrible
place again.

1465
01:11:44,552 --> 01:11:47,346
Mr. Black: And there was a beam
of light that was lighting

1466
01:11:47,472 --> 01:11:50,391
the pathway
of where I was going.

1467
01:11:52,852 --> 01:11:54,520
My whole life
flashed in front of me

1468
01:11:54,645 --> 01:11:56,147
as big as the sky,

1469
01:11:57,023 --> 01:11:58,816
Mr. Black: Tiny spheres
of light.

1470
01:11:59,484 --> 01:12:02,445
They weren't planets,
they weren't stars.

1471
01:12:02,570 --> 01:12:05,573
These were beings
going to Earth

1472
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:08,034
Mr. Storm: Where we were going
is what I first thought

1473
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:11,579
was a galaxy.
A huge world of light.

1474
01:12:11,954 --> 01:12:13,831
Mr. Black: The light that
I'm looking at,

1475
01:12:13,956 --> 01:12:17,001
is coming from none
other than God Himself.

1476
01:12:20,379 --> 01:12:23,382
Inside the light was life,

1477
01:12:24,967 --> 01:12:27,970
And inside
that light was love.

1478
01:12:28,096 --> 01:12:31,766
And my body is
still on Earth.

1479
01:12:33,351 --> 01:12:36,813
My brain and eyeballs
are back there.

1480
01:12:37,980 --> 01:12:39,816
But, I'm sensing
and discerning

1481
01:12:39,941 --> 01:12:42,860
all of these things.

1482
01:12:43,694 --> 01:12:45,029
When you leave this earth

1483
01:12:45,154 --> 01:12:47,323
and you step into
the eternity,

1484
01:12:47,448 --> 01:12:50,451
everything is
crystal clear.

1485
01:12:58,042 --> 01:13:00,128
Mr. Black: I knew I was coming
to this holy area

1486
01:13:00,253 --> 01:13:01,712
and obviously

1487
01:13:01,838 --> 01:13:04,757
it took another second
to connect the dots.

1488
01:13:04,882 --> 01:13:06,300
This is Heaven.

1489
01:13:11,722 --> 01:13:12,640
Mr. Storm: And he spoke to me

1490
01:13:12,765 --> 01:13:15,685
for the first time
in his voice,

1491
01:13:15,810 --> 01:13:17,937
but it was telepathic
but it wasn't

1492
01:13:18,062 --> 01:13:19,105
a thought of mine.

1493
01:13:19,230 --> 01:13:21,357
It was his voice
in my head.

1494
01:13:21,482 --> 01:13:23,025
And then he said,
I've got some people

1495
01:13:23,151 --> 01:13:24,402
that I want you to meet.

1496
01:13:24,527 --> 01:13:26,195
They've recorded your life

1497
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:29,282
and they want
show you your life.

1498
01:13:29,824 --> 01:13:31,701
So they proceeded to

1499
01:13:31,826 --> 01:13:33,995
show me my life
in chronological order.

1500
01:13:38,791 --> 01:13:41,794
What I saw, to
summarize it, was

1501
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:44,755
happy youth

1502
01:13:44,881 --> 01:13:45,798
pretty much

1503
01:13:45,923 --> 01:13:49,260
going to adolescence,
everything going sour,

1504
01:13:50,428 --> 01:13:51,679
particularly
with my relationship

1505
01:13:51,804 --> 01:13:52,513
with my father.

1506
01:13:52,638 --> 01:13:56,851
Because of my father's
cruelty to me,

1507
01:13:58,060 --> 01:13:59,729
I was cruel back.

1508
01:14:01,606 --> 01:14:04,525
My father was physically
and emotionally abusive

1509
01:14:04,650 --> 01:14:07,904
every day to my mother,
my sisters and to me.

1510
01:14:09,947 --> 01:14:11,157
I mean, it never stopped.

1511
01:14:13,451 --> 01:14:14,994
The only way
that I could deal with it

1512
01:14:15,119 --> 01:14:17,997
was to try
and not feel anything.

1513
01:14:18,372 --> 01:14:20,208
And all he wanted for me

1514
01:14:20,333 --> 01:14:23,461
was to be
a little duplicate of him,

1515
01:14:23,794 --> 01:14:26,672
you know,
just be subservient to him.

1516
01:14:26,797 --> 01:14:29,425
You know,
being being disobedient

1517
01:14:29,550 --> 01:14:31,886
had immediate
physical consequences

1518
01:14:32,011 --> 01:14:34,972
of being kicked
or punched or hit.

1519
01:14:36,224 --> 01:14:38,976
And I saw myself striving

1520
01:14:39,101 --> 01:14:42,396
to become emotionless
and feeling-less,

1521
01:14:43,272 --> 01:14:45,316
which was a way for
me to protect myself

1522
01:14:45,441 --> 01:14:46,400
from being hurt.

1523
01:14:48,402 --> 01:14:51,239
As I became
more manipulative

1524
01:14:51,364 --> 01:14:53,241
and successful,

1525
01:14:53,366 --> 01:14:56,494
the more the angels
and Jesus expressed

1526
01:14:56,619 --> 01:14:57,828
their disappointment

1527
01:14:57,954 --> 01:15:00,957
and sadness
with me and my life.

1528
01:15:02,625 --> 01:15:04,961
And it really hurt
to disappoint them

1529
01:15:05,086 --> 01:15:05,920
because I here

1530
01:15:06,045 --> 01:15:09,006
I have these newfound
friends, my big rescuer,

1531
01:15:10,007 --> 01:15:13,010
you know, best friend
I ever had.

1532
01:15:14,845 --> 01:15:16,597
And I'm-- and I'm
looking at my life

1533
01:15:16,722 --> 01:15:19,642
and I'm a big, huge
disappointment.

1534
01:15:22,645 --> 01:15:25,815
and you should put me back.

1535
01:15:26,941 --> 01:15:29,443
I don't belong here.

1536
01:15:33,823 --> 01:15:34,949
You know,
you've made a mistake.

1537
01:15:35,074 --> 01:15:36,033
I don't belong here.

1538
01:15:36,158 --> 01:15:38,119
And he said,
"We don't make mistakes.

1539
01:15:38,244 --> 01:15:41,122
You do belong here."

1540
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:46,961
Dr. Neal: At this point.

1541
01:15:47,086 --> 01:15:48,838
I had had

1542
01:15:48,963 --> 01:15:50,923
a number of operations and

1543
01:15:51,048 --> 01:15:55,428
I was finally able
to be upright instead of

1544
01:15:56,012 --> 01:15:56,971
wheelchair bound.

1545
01:15:58,514 --> 01:16:00,182
But I,

1546
01:16:00,308 --> 01:16:03,311
wasn't
able to walk very well.

1547
01:16:05,604 --> 01:16:08,607
When I was
sent back to my body,

1548
01:16:09,608 --> 01:16:12,778
I knew that
sharing my experiences

1549
01:16:12,903 --> 01:16:15,823
with other people
was part of the deal.

1550
01:16:16,699 --> 01:16:20,661
I knew that part of that
was writing about them.

1551
01:16:21,579 --> 01:16:23,956
And so I woke up

1552
01:16:24,081 --> 01:16:27,793
and I spent the
next week or so

1553
01:16:28,419 --> 01:16:31,839
getting up at three
or four in the morning and

1554
01:16:32,465 --> 01:16:35,468
writing for a few hours
before the morning routine.

1555
01:16:36,677 --> 01:16:40,598
And so I, you know,
made my final revisions.

1556
01:16:40,723 --> 01:16:43,934
And when I hit
the save button,

1557
01:16:44,185 --> 01:16:47,855
I took my youngest son, who
was still living at home

1558
01:16:48,522 --> 01:16:51,525
into town to get ice cream
so we could celebrate.

1559
01:16:52,193 --> 01:16:55,196
And so as we were
driving into town

1560
01:16:56,530 --> 01:17:00,201
to celebrate,
I called my older boys

1561
01:17:01,035 --> 01:17:04,038
because my oldest son
and his brother

1562
01:17:04,413 --> 01:17:06,999
were at the time
living in Maine.

1563
01:17:07,124 --> 01:17:08,250
They were ski training.

1564
01:17:10,378 --> 01:17:11,796
And I called them

1565
01:17:11,921 --> 01:17:14,882
to share this great news.

1566
01:17:16,008 --> 01:17:18,636
And the coach
answered the phone

1567
01:17:18,761 --> 01:17:22,556
and told me that Willie
had just been hit

1568
01:17:22,681 --> 01:17:24,642
by a car and killed.

1569
01:17:32,691 --> 01:17:33,901
and um,

1570
01:17:40,699 --> 01:17:42,034
I mean,

1571
01:17:43,411 --> 01:17:45,621
I reacted

1572
01:17:45,746 --> 01:17:48,707
like any mother would.

1573
01:17:57,049 --> 01:18:00,761
The depth of my spiritual
knowledge,

1574
01:18:02,096 --> 01:18:05,266
does not protect me
from grief.

1575
01:18:06,517 --> 01:18:09,520
It doesn't protect me from

1576
01:18:09,645 --> 01:18:12,606
sorrow or any of
those things.

1577
01:18:14,316 --> 01:18:15,443
The depth of pain,

1578
01:18:15,568 --> 01:18:18,529
of losing a child is,

1579
01:18:19,238 --> 01:18:22,032
I don't think, a

1580
01:18:22,158 --> 01:18:24,243
pain that can be
replicated by

1581
01:18:24,368 --> 01:18:27,288
any other human
experience.

1582
01:18:28,831 --> 01:18:31,834
I mean, I was devastated

1583
01:18:48,684 --> 01:18:51,687
And it all stopped

1584
01:18:52,813 --> 01:18:55,816
just as quickly I arrived.

1585
01:19:02,114 --> 01:19:04,867
That accident happened
at 11:45 in the morning.

1586
01:19:04,992 --> 01:19:07,995
I arrived at Hermann
Memorial Hospital

1587
01:19:08,245 --> 01:19:11,248
at like 6:15 that night.

1588
01:19:11,665 --> 01:19:14,543
{\an8}So they went and got my
wife out of her classroom,

1589
01:19:14,668 --> 01:19:15,503
{\an8}brought it down
to the office

1590
01:19:15,628 --> 01:19:17,129
{\an8}and told her the news.

1591
01:19:17,796 --> 01:19:20,257
And I walked down the
hall and into the office,

1592
01:19:20,382 --> 01:19:21,926
{\an8}and our assistant principal

1593
01:19:22,051 --> 01:19:23,469
{\an8}came out
from around her desk

1594
01:19:23,594 --> 01:19:25,179
{\an8}and just wrapped me
in this hug.

1595
01:19:25,304 --> 01:19:28,182
And she says, "Don's
been in an accident."

1596
01:19:28,307 --> 01:19:30,309
And that's all that
we knew.

1597
01:19:30,434 --> 01:19:33,437
I was taken into surgery
that evening

1598
01:19:33,687 --> 01:19:36,690
and was in surgery
for 12 hours.

1599
01:19:38,484 --> 01:19:39,985
The next day

1600
01:19:40,110 --> 01:19:43,030
was when I realized
I was in the recovery room.

1601
01:19:43,739 --> 01:19:46,742
The emergency room
had called

1602
01:19:46,867 --> 01:19:49,119
and the nurse said,
he can't hold the phone,

1603
01:19:49,245 --> 01:19:51,038
but I'm going to put it
next to his ear

1604
01:19:51,163 --> 01:19:52,790
so he can hear you.

1605
01:19:54,041 --> 01:19:55,084
And I started with
the questions,

1606
01:19:55,209 --> 01:19:57,044
"Are you okay?
What happened?

1607
01:19:57,169 --> 01:19:58,212
Do I need to
come out there?"

1608
01:19:58,337 --> 01:20:01,215
just, you know, rambling
sort of things.

1609
01:20:01,340 --> 01:20:02,925
And all I could hear
him say was,

1610
01:20:03,050 --> 01:20:04,802
"I just want to go home.

1611
01:20:04,927 --> 01:20:06,053
I just want to go home."

1612
01:20:08,472 --> 01:20:09,682
Later, I understood

1613
01:20:09,807 --> 01:20:12,726
that he meant his
Heavenly home.

1614
01:20:13,727 --> 01:20:14,520
Had I had a choice,

1615
01:20:14,645 --> 01:20:16,230
I would not have
come back here.

1616
01:20:16,355 --> 01:20:19,400
I mean, I've had 30
wonderful years here,

1617
01:20:20,025 --> 01:20:21,819
but I would still rather
be there.

1618
01:20:21,944 --> 01:20:23,070
I know what happens next,

1619
01:20:23,195 --> 01:20:25,447
and it's it's always
better there

1620
01:20:25,573 --> 01:20:26,824
than it will ever be here.

1621
01:20:26,949 --> 01:20:29,910
So I didn't really want to
come back, but

1622
01:20:30,327 --> 01:20:32,329
I didn't get a choice.

1623
01:20:34,290 --> 01:20:36,542
He went into a deep
depression.

1624
01:20:36,667 --> 01:20:40,588
And I would go in, and
he would just lay there.

1625
01:20:40,879 --> 01:20:44,133
He wouldn't talk to me.
He wouldn't acknowledge me.

1626
01:20:44,925 --> 01:20:46,176
I would bring papers
to grade.

1627
01:20:46,302 --> 01:20:47,970
I would sit over in the
corner and grade

1628
01:20:48,095 --> 01:20:50,180
and stay there
till about 11:00

1629
01:20:50,306 --> 01:20:52,099
almost every night.

1630
01:20:52,850 --> 01:20:54,184
And then I'd tell him
goodnight,

1631
01:20:54,310 --> 01:20:55,561
and I'd leave.

1632
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:02,443
And it was hurtful, because
I thought, you're alive.

1633
01:21:02,860 --> 01:21:04,445
You know, you're alive.
You're back with us.

1634
01:21:04,570 --> 01:21:05,529
Don't you love us enough to

1635
01:21:05,654 --> 01:21:06,947
be glad to be back with us?

1636
01:21:09,158 --> 01:21:12,244
And to me, that
was harder to deal with.

1637
01:21:12,369 --> 01:21:14,246
The depression was harder
to deal with

1638
01:21:14,371 --> 01:21:17,374
than the physical injuries,
which were massive.

1639
01:21:17,916 --> 01:21:20,085
And I remember one night,

1640
01:21:20,210 --> 01:21:21,670
I thought, you know what?

1641
01:21:21,795 --> 01:21:23,255
I'm going to go home
early tonight,

1642
01:21:23,380 --> 01:21:25,257
and I'm going to take
a warm shower,

1643
01:21:25,382 --> 01:21:26,800
and I'm going to
crawl in the bed,

1644
01:21:26,925 --> 01:21:28,552
and get a good
night's sleep.

1645
01:21:28,677 --> 01:21:31,639
So I gathered up
all my stuff,

1646
01:21:31,764 --> 01:21:33,140
and I just said,

1647
01:21:33,265 --> 01:21:35,351
well, I guess I'll
see you tomorrow.

1648
01:21:40,648 --> 01:21:43,442
No response.

1649
01:21:43,567 --> 01:21:44,735
That night, something

1650
01:21:44,860 --> 01:21:47,738
clicked inside of me,
and I had had it.

1651
01:21:47,946 --> 01:21:50,908
And I dropped
that book bag,

1652
01:21:51,033 --> 01:21:53,619
and I stomped my way over
to the side of the bed,

1653
01:21:53,744 --> 01:21:54,995
and I let him have it.

1654
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:56,830
What is wrong with you?

1655
01:21:56,955 --> 01:21:58,457
Why aren't
you glad to see us?

1656
01:21:58,582 --> 01:22:00,376
Why aren't you glad
that you're back with us?

1657
01:22:00,501 --> 01:22:02,294
It was just--
it just tumbled out.

1658
01:22:04,755 --> 01:22:05,964
And so I grabbed
my stuff up,

1659
01:22:06,090 --> 01:22:08,175
and I'm walking
out the door.

1660
01:22:08,300 --> 01:22:11,220
And there was a big mirror
next to his bed.

1661
01:22:12,888 --> 01:22:15,891
And I looked over there,
and he was crying.

1662
01:22:17,601 --> 01:22:19,186
Just tears.

1663
01:22:20,062 --> 01:22:23,732
So I walked myself back
over, and I kind of had to-

1664
01:22:23,941 --> 01:22:26,944
he had so many metal
things that we had kind of

1665
01:22:27,236 --> 01:22:30,239
got my way in and I just
wrapped him in my arms.

1666
01:22:30,781 --> 01:22:33,575
And I said, It's
going to be okay.

1667
01:22:33,701 --> 01:22:37,913
And I realized then that

1668
01:22:39,206 --> 01:22:42,167
I had to accept that
sometimes

1669
01:22:42,459 --> 01:22:45,421
he was going through things
I didn't understand.

1670
01:22:54,513 --> 01:22:56,640
Mr. Storm: Finally,

1671
01:22:56,765 --> 01:22:59,476
I got through it.

1672
01:22:59,601 --> 01:23:01,437
Jesus said,
"Do you have any questions?"

1673
01:23:01,562 --> 01:23:03,063
I said, "I've got a million
questions."

1674
01:23:03,188 --> 01:23:05,190
He said,
"What do you want to know?"

1675
01:23:05,315 --> 01:23:06,275
So I asked him
everything that

1676
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:08,235
I could think of to know,

1677
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:09,903
And if we went
through that,

1678
01:23:10,028 --> 01:23:11,321
it would
take us several years.

1679
01:23:12,781 --> 01:23:14,366
And He gave me a whole

1680
01:23:14,491 --> 01:23:16,994
new understanding
of everything.

1681
01:23:17,119 --> 01:23:18,495
I said, "Great,

1682
01:23:18,620 --> 01:23:20,330
Now that I understand,
I want to go to heaven."

1683
01:23:20,456 --> 01:23:21,874
He said, "um um,

1684
01:23:22,958 --> 01:23:24,752
You're not ready
for Heaven yet."

1685
01:23:26,462 --> 01:23:28,464
Finally, I said, "What do
you want me to do?"

1686
01:23:28,589 --> 01:23:29,715
"I want you to love
the person

1687
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:30,591
that you're with."

1688
01:23:30,758 --> 01:23:32,301
I said, "Okay, yeah,
but then what

1689
01:23:32,426 --> 01:23:33,552
do you want me to do
after I do that?"

1690
01:23:33,677 --> 01:23:35,429
And He said, "No, that's
what I want you to do."

1691
01:23:35,554 --> 01:23:38,557
I said, you know, "What
good is that going to do?"

1692
01:23:38,682 --> 01:23:40,851
He said, "It's going to
change the world."

1693
01:23:41,685 --> 01:23:44,688
And I said, "That's
going to change the world?

1694
01:23:45,272 --> 01:23:47,357
I don't think so, no."

1695
01:23:47,483 --> 01:23:48,442
I said,
"You don't understand.

1696
01:23:48,567 --> 01:23:51,028
The world is like
a terrible, cruel place.

1697
01:23:51,153 --> 01:23:52,696
Even if I love someone,
they're just going to go

1698
01:23:52,821 --> 01:23:55,574
get beat up somewhere else
and not going to--"

1699
01:23:55,699 --> 01:23:57,242
He said, "No, if you
love someone,

1700
01:23:57,367 --> 01:23:59,203
they'll take that love
out into the world

1701
01:23:59,328 --> 01:24:01,872
and maybe they'll love
somebody and it'll

1702
01:24:01,997 --> 01:24:02,956
grow and grow and grow."

1703
01:24:03,081 --> 01:24:04,583
I said, "It's not going to
work."

1704
01:24:04,708 --> 01:24:05,626
And He said,
"It's God's plan.

1705
01:24:05,751 --> 01:24:07,211
It's going to work."

1706
01:24:07,336 --> 01:24:09,755
Well, when he pulls out
the God's plan work,

1707
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:10,547
you know,

1708
01:24:10,672 --> 01:24:12,007
I mean, like,
what can you say?

1709
01:24:15,719 --> 01:24:18,722
And so finally I conceded.

1710
01:24:18,847 --> 01:24:20,224
and I said, "Okay,
I'll go back."

1711
01:24:20,349 --> 01:24:21,600
And with that, bang,

1712
01:24:21,725 --> 01:24:23,644
I'm in the body,
I'm in the bed.

1713
01:24:29,316 --> 01:24:30,484
The nurse who'd
been in the room

1714
01:24:30,609 --> 01:24:31,944
comes in and says,

1715
01:24:32,069 --> 01:24:33,737
a doctor has arrived
at the hospital and

1716
01:24:33,862 --> 01:24:36,573
we're going to prepare you
for surgery.

1717
01:24:36,698 --> 01:24:38,242
When I awoke,

1718
01:24:38,367 --> 01:24:40,494
I knew that
what had happened to me

1719
01:24:40,619 --> 01:24:43,622
was the most
important thing in my life.

1720
01:24:45,123 --> 01:24:48,794
Because now my life had
real meaning and purpose.

1721
01:24:50,212 --> 01:24:51,380
I was very, very weak.

1722
01:24:51,505 --> 01:24:54,424
I had been in
surgery for hours.

1723
01:24:55,968 --> 01:24:57,594
I'd spent
most of the morning

1724
01:24:57,719 --> 01:24:58,929
trying to think of how
I was going

1725
01:24:59,054 --> 01:25:02,015
to tell my wife
what had happened.

1726
01:25:02,808 --> 01:25:05,769
I said to her,
"It's all love."

1727
01:25:07,187 --> 01:25:09,064
She said, "I love you."

1728
01:25:09,189 --> 01:25:11,692
And I said, "I know you
love me, but it's all love."

1729
01:25:14,361 --> 01:25:17,364
She said, "What are you
talking about?"

1730
01:25:17,531 --> 01:25:20,534
And I said, "It's
an ocean of love.

1731
01:25:21,827 --> 01:25:24,788
And you have to just go in

1732
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:28,083
into that ocean of love
and be a part of it."

1733
01:25:30,210 --> 01:25:33,213
And she said, "Okay, honey,

1734
01:25:35,090 --> 01:25:37,426
Try to get some rest."

1735
01:25:41,889 --> 01:25:43,015
Here I am. I'm I' giv--

1736
01:25:43,140 --> 01:25:46,059
I'm giving her
the abbreviated

1737
01:25:46,602 --> 01:25:49,605
wisdom of God.

1738
01:25:50,814 --> 01:25:52,774
And she's basically
telling me,

1739
01:25:52,900 --> 01:25:54,318
you know,
you're making no sense.

1740
01:25:54,443 --> 01:25:55,903
It's crazy talk.

1741
01:25:58,697 --> 01:25:59,907
From that day forward,

1742
01:26:00,032 --> 01:26:03,577
I tried to tell people
about God, Heaven, Hell,

1743
01:26:04,953 --> 01:26:07,956
what I'd experienced,
and nobody,

1744
01:26:08,415 --> 01:26:11,418
nobody took me
seriously at all.

1745
01:26:11,752 --> 01:26:13,378
I was a zealot.

1746
01:26:13,503 --> 01:26:14,796
I was a complete zealot.

1747
01:26:14,922 --> 01:26:17,841
And it was

1748
01:26:18,425 --> 01:26:19,968
not good
for my relationship

1749
01:26:20,093 --> 01:26:23,013
with my kids
because the more that they

1750
01:26:23,972 --> 01:26:26,975
did not respect what
I was trying to tell them

1751
01:26:27,392 --> 01:26:30,187
and the more they told me
I was nuts and crazy

1752
01:26:30,312 --> 01:26:31,355
and stuff like that,
the more...

1753
01:26:32,689 --> 01:26:34,483
it totally alienated them

1754
01:26:34,608 --> 01:26:37,152
from the Bible,
from God, from me.

1755
01:26:37,277 --> 01:26:40,280
I mean, it was completely
counterproductive.

1756
01:26:41,281 --> 01:26:42,908
It was a disaster.

1757
01:26:50,415 --> 01:26:51,875
My wife left me.

1758
01:26:53,126 --> 01:26:56,505
She poisoned the
kids against me.

1759
01:26:59,007 --> 01:27:00,092
They've rejected me.

1760
01:27:00,217 --> 01:27:01,218
They don't want anything
to do with me.

1761
01:27:01,343 --> 01:27:04,304
They think I'm a crazy man.

1762
01:27:05,389 --> 01:27:08,392
It's all going to work out.

1763
01:27:12,729 --> 01:27:14,064
I know that God works
stuff out.

1764
01:27:14,189 --> 01:27:17,150
It just doesn't happen
on our time frame.

1765
01:27:17,609 --> 01:27:19,069
I mean, I'd like it now.

1766
01:27:19,194 --> 01:27:20,946
It's not happening
right now,

1767
01:27:21,071 --> 01:27:22,030
but it could happen
tomorrow.

1768
01:27:22,155 --> 01:27:24,950
It might take a long time.

1769
01:27:25,075 --> 01:27:26,493
I don't know,

1770
01:27:31,456 --> 01:27:32,541
A couple of years
down the road

1771
01:27:32,666 --> 01:27:33,291
when I found out

1772
01:27:33,417 --> 01:27:34,918
about the Heaven
experience,

1773
01:27:35,043 --> 01:27:35,919
people have asked me,

1774
01:27:36,044 --> 01:27:38,588
"Aren't you mad that
he didn't tell you?"

1775
01:27:38,714 --> 01:27:40,340
Not really.

1776
01:27:40,465 --> 01:27:44,094
I was relieved
because now I understand.

1777
01:27:45,554 --> 01:27:46,722
You know,
if you've been to Heaven,

1778
01:27:46,847 --> 01:27:49,182
why would you want to be
back in the pain

1779
01:27:49,307 --> 01:27:50,684
that he was in?

1780
01:27:54,062 --> 01:27:56,481
I found myself
on a daily basis

1781
01:27:56,606 --> 01:27:59,359
with all these devices
attached to me

1782
01:27:59,484 --> 01:28:02,195
and unable to move at all.

1783
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:04,031
I couldn't do a
single solitary thing

1784
01:28:04,156 --> 01:28:05,073
for myself at all.

1785
01:28:05,198 --> 01:28:07,659
38 and then 39 year old man

1786
01:28:07,784 --> 01:28:10,746
who was completely
helpless.

1787
01:28:16,543 --> 01:28:17,419
Why?

1788
01:28:18,170 --> 01:28:19,629
You let me see that,

1789
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:21,506
And you brought
me back to this.

1790
01:28:22,174 --> 01:28:24,009
What is going on here?

1791
01:28:24,217 --> 01:28:27,220
What was the purpose
of this?

1792
01:28:35,896 --> 01:28:37,481
Dr. Moody: In my studies
of psychiatry,

1793
01:28:37,606 --> 01:28:39,775
I quickly realized
that practically

1794
01:28:39,900 --> 01:28:42,819
everybody
is chasing something.

1795
01:28:43,612 --> 01:28:46,823
Some chase fame
or money or power.

1796
01:28:47,741 --> 01:28:50,702
But what I quickly realized
in talking with people

1797
01:28:50,827 --> 01:28:52,412
who had near-death
experiences

1798
01:28:52,537 --> 01:28:54,664
is that whatever
they were chasing

1799
01:28:54,790 --> 01:28:57,751
before this experience,
convinced them that

1800
01:28:58,043 --> 01:29:00,796
what life is all
about is learning to love.

1801
01:29:04,549 --> 01:29:07,511
Mr. Burke: And they all come
back all around the globe

1802
01:29:07,719 --> 01:29:11,181
with the same "aha".
That God is love.

1803
01:29:11,598 --> 01:29:13,517
And that how we treat and
love one another

1804
01:29:13,642 --> 01:29:16,019
is what matters
most to God.

1805
01:29:16,144 --> 01:29:16,853
You have people

1806
01:29:16,978 --> 01:29:19,439
who have these experiences
and come back

1807
01:29:19,564 --> 01:29:22,526
and their life
is radically changed.

1808
01:29:24,861 --> 01:29:25,695
Mr. Storm: When I came back

1809
01:29:25,821 --> 01:29:26,988
one of the things I knew
I wanted

1810
01:29:27,114 --> 01:29:30,033
to make friends
with my dad.

1811
01:29:31,034 --> 01:29:33,703
Not only was
I able to forgive my father

1812
01:29:33,829 --> 01:29:36,665
because I understood
that he was just messed up

1813
01:29:36,790 --> 01:29:39,209
because of his messed up
childhood.

1814
01:29:39,334 --> 01:29:40,669
All my father
really wanted to do

1815
01:29:40,794 --> 01:29:42,212
was to be loved but he

1816
01:29:42,337 --> 01:29:44,339
didn't know how to do that
in an appropriate way.

1817
01:29:44,464 --> 01:29:46,842
So he tried to be loved
in inappropriate ways.

1818
01:29:46,967 --> 01:29:49,886
He thought obedience
and discipline.

1819
01:29:50,679 --> 01:29:52,097
And my mother
and my sisters

1820
01:29:52,222 --> 01:29:53,265
were really angry with me

1821
01:29:53,390 --> 01:29:56,309
because they all told me
several times

1822
01:29:57,060 --> 01:29:58,979
"You and Dad
hated each other

1823
01:29:59,104 --> 01:30:02,023
and now you're
his best friend. Why?"

1824
01:30:03,775 --> 01:30:05,777
And I'd say, "Because
he's my dad."

1825
01:30:07,404 --> 01:30:09,197
Grace is passed along
and passed along

1826
01:30:09,322 --> 01:30:11,867
and passed along.
And it's powerful.

1827
01:30:11,992 --> 01:30:13,994
It's powerful because
people change lives

1828
01:30:14,119 --> 01:30:15,245
for the good.

1829
01:30:15,370 --> 01:30:19,332
They find hope, peace,
love, joy, contentment.

1830
01:30:19,457 --> 01:30:21,918
You know.

1831
01:30:22,043 --> 01:30:23,753
And they also find

1832
01:30:23,879 --> 01:30:25,755
God and eternal life.

1833
01:30:33,180 --> 01:30:35,599
Dr. Neal: When I was being shown

1834
01:30:35,724 --> 01:30:37,601
the ripple effect
of my own actions

1835
01:30:37,726 --> 01:30:41,188
and my own words,
I was able to see this

1836
01:30:41,688 --> 01:30:45,859
20, 25, 35 times
removed from me.

1837
01:30:47,110 --> 01:30:48,486
That's

1838
01:30:48,612 --> 01:30:51,615
a big distance.

1839
01:30:51,865 --> 01:30:54,868
I understood all the hurts
and sorrows and dreams.

1840
01:30:55,202 --> 01:30:58,830
Everything that had brought
me to that point in time

1841
01:30:59,247 --> 01:31:02,250
when I may have hurt
someone else.

1842
01:31:02,375 --> 01:31:05,295
I also had this complete
understanding

1843
01:31:05,420 --> 01:31:06,755
of the back story

1844
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:08,340
or the, you know,
the life story

1845
01:31:08,465 --> 01:31:10,508
of the other
people involved

1846
01:31:11,051 --> 01:31:13,470
and everything
that had brought them

1847
01:31:13,595 --> 01:31:16,431
to that moment in time
where they hurt me

1848
01:31:16,556 --> 01:31:17,807
or they
hurt someone I loved

1849
01:31:19,643 --> 01:31:21,353
What we
each say and what we

1850
01:31:21,478 --> 01:31:24,522
each do and the choices
we make matter.

1851
01:31:25,690 --> 01:31:26,900
They really do.

1852
01:31:33,823 --> 01:31:36,826
Dr. Neal: When I talk
about my son's death,

1853
01:31:37,077 --> 01:31:38,870
I know that he went home,

1854
01:31:38,995 --> 01:31:41,790
and I'm sure that he didn't
want to come back either.

1855
01:31:41,915 --> 01:31:44,834
I'm sure he was reassured
that we would be fine.

1856
01:31:46,670 --> 01:31:48,546
When my time
on earth is done,

1857
01:31:48,672 --> 01:31:51,258
my oldest son
will be there to greet me,

1858
01:31:51,383 --> 01:31:54,386
my father, my stepfather.

1859
01:31:54,928 --> 01:31:55,762
I now know

1860
01:31:55,887 --> 01:31:58,431
other people who have died,
people who I love, people

1861
01:31:58,556 --> 01:31:59,891
who are important
in my life.

1862
01:32:00,016 --> 01:32:01,309
I don't see

1863
01:32:01,434 --> 01:32:04,479
us here on Earth, and God's
world is over here.

1864
01:32:04,938 --> 01:32:08,233
I think we exist
in the midst of it.

1865
01:32:11,403 --> 01:32:13,363
I had the most

1866
01:32:13,488 --> 01:32:16,408
overwhelming sense
of being home,

1867
01:32:17,075 --> 01:32:18,785
of being where
I really belong,

1868
01:32:18,910 --> 01:32:21,454
where we
really belong, all of us.

1869
01:32:23,206 --> 01:32:25,875
It took about a few
months to recover fully.

1870
01:32:26,042 --> 01:32:28,211
I was still feeling
the pain,

1871
01:32:28,336 --> 01:32:31,339
feeling a little down,
depressed. Seeing Hell

1872
01:32:31,464 --> 01:32:35,593
and Heaven, changed me to
kind of prioritize others.

1873
01:32:36,386 --> 01:32:39,431
So at the age of 35,
I joined the Army Reserves.

1874
01:32:40,265 --> 01:32:42,309
I became a chaplain.

1875
01:32:42,434 --> 01:32:43,727
People just
came back from war

1876
01:32:43,852 --> 01:32:44,936
and you could tell
that they had

1877
01:32:45,061 --> 01:32:47,355
a very heartbroken
experience

1878
01:32:47,480 --> 01:32:50,191
or a psychological damage,
or the atrocities of war.

1879
01:32:50,317 --> 01:32:52,485
So we did a lot
of counseling.

1880
01:32:52,610 --> 01:32:54,154
We would pick up
phone calls at two,

1881
01:32:54,279 --> 01:32:55,280
three in the morning,

1882
01:32:55,405 --> 01:32:57,657
go with them to training,
hang out with them.

1883
01:32:57,782 --> 01:33:00,535
I would tell them that
there's hope.

1884
01:33:00,660 --> 01:33:03,621
I would tell them that
depression is not forever.

1885
01:33:05,373 --> 01:33:07,375
I believe
all over the world,

1886
01:33:07,500 --> 01:33:08,793
there are so many unique

1887
01:33:08,918 --> 01:33:10,879
NDEs, near-death
experiences,

1888
01:33:11,004 --> 01:33:12,005
and so many cultures

1889
01:33:12,130 --> 01:33:14,132
and backgrounds, American
or not,

1890
01:33:14,257 --> 01:33:16,885
all types of religions,
because

1891
01:33:17,010 --> 01:33:18,553
death is as real as life.

1892
01:33:19,637 --> 01:33:21,306
And I believe God
in his mercy,

1893
01:33:21,431 --> 01:33:22,807
no matter what
religious background

1894
01:33:22,932 --> 01:33:24,934
you are, allows you
to go through that

1895
01:33:25,060 --> 01:33:28,063
so that you can seek Him
in the process.

1896
01:33:28,813 --> 01:33:31,316
I don't know why
some people survive

1897
01:33:31,441 --> 01:33:33,234
and some people don't.

1898
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:34,611
I wish.

1899
01:33:34,736 --> 01:33:36,529
I wouldn't have survived.

1900
01:33:36,654 --> 01:33:37,655
I've had some
very real things

1901
01:33:37,781 --> 01:33:38,615
happen to me on Earth.

1902
01:33:38,740 --> 01:33:40,909
The birth
of five grandchildren,

1903
01:33:41,034 --> 01:33:42,702
seeing my children
all graduate.

1904
01:33:42,827 --> 01:33:45,747
I mean, it's
been glorious in many ways,

1905
01:33:46,081 --> 01:33:47,582
but nothing compares
to Heaven.

1906
01:33:47,707 --> 01:33:49,376
It's just, that's
the most real thing.

1907
01:33:49,501 --> 01:33:51,419
That is my reality.

1908
01:33:51,544 --> 01:33:53,254
This is not.

1909
01:33:53,380 --> 01:33:54,047
Mr. Burke: What do we have

1910
01:33:54,172 --> 01:33:57,092
more in common
as humanity than death?

1911
01:33:57,342 --> 01:34:01,012
And to know that there is
hope beyond this life,

1912
01:34:01,805 --> 01:34:04,099
that there truly is beauty,

1913
01:34:04,224 --> 01:34:07,018
and relationship and love

1914
01:34:07,143 --> 01:34:09,813
and adventure ahead.

1915
01:34:09,938 --> 01:34:11,314
You know, that

1916
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,192
all of our our history
and our memories,

1917
01:34:14,317 --> 01:34:17,028
they don't end and we don't
become something else.

1918
01:34:17,153 --> 01:34:18,071
It goes on.

1919
01:34:21,658 --> 01:34:23,284
Dr. Sabom: People ought to
keep an open mind

1920
01:34:23,410 --> 01:34:25,120
to what's going on,

1921
01:34:25,245 --> 01:34:27,997
not accept everything
they hear

1922
01:34:28,832 --> 01:34:31,876
from people, from me,
from anybody.

1923
01:34:32,710 --> 01:34:35,713
Be skeptical,
ask questions,

1924
01:34:36,798 --> 01:34:38,550
think about it.

1925
01:34:38,675 --> 01:34:41,719
There are things that we
can't explain, and I think

1926
01:34:42,011 --> 01:34:45,223
it needs to be documented
as much as we can.

1927
01:34:45,515 --> 01:34:49,060
Documentation's important.
Without that,

1928
01:34:49,727 --> 01:34:52,730
it's an interesting story,
and that's it.

1929
01:34:55,066 --> 01:34:56,568
We can only do so much.

1930
01:34:56,693 --> 01:34:58,153
You know,
we're human beings

1931
01:34:58,278 --> 01:34:59,821
and we do the best we can.

1932
01:34:59,946 --> 01:35:01,698
I think
most people really do.

1933
01:35:01,823 --> 01:35:03,783
We don't have
all the answers,

1934
01:35:03,908 --> 01:35:06,870
and I don't think we ever
will have all the answers.

1935
01:35:06,995 --> 01:35:09,247
In the scientific realm.

1936
01:35:09,372 --> 01:35:11,875
What is a human
soul? Is a human soul?

1937
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:13,877
does it live after death?

1938
01:35:14,002 --> 01:35:15,211
I don't think science
is going

1939
01:35:15,336 --> 01:35:16,713
to answer those questions.

1940
01:35:16,838 --> 01:35:19,924
I think all of these
near-death experiences

1941
01:35:21,384 --> 01:35:24,637
suggest that
that's possible.