1 00:00:02,349 --> 00:00:03,263 - I'm Tammy Payne in the TV9 newsroom. 2 00:00:03,307 --> 00:00:04,656 If you are anywhere downtown, 3 00:00:04,699 --> 00:00:06,571 you've probably heard it and felt it-- 4 00:00:06,614 --> 00:00:09,400 an explosion of some kind downtown. 5 00:00:09,443 --> 00:00:12,925 [tense music] 6 00:00:12,968 --> 00:00:14,579 - The Alfred P. Murrah Building 7 00:00:14,622 --> 00:00:17,669 in Downtown Oklahoma City ripped apart by, 8 00:00:17,712 --> 00:00:21,107 as far as we can tell, a single explosion. 9 00:00:21,151 --> 00:00:23,979 - I looked over my shoulder out into Downtown, 10 00:00:24,023 --> 00:00:25,981 and it was just a large black cloud of smoke. 11 00:00:27,853 --> 00:00:30,203 [sirens wailing] 12 00:00:30,247 --> 00:00:31,639 - It's total chaos. 13 00:00:31,683 --> 00:00:33,076 Sirens are blasting. 14 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:34,338 Cars are on fire. 15 00:00:34,381 --> 00:00:35,730 People are screaming. 16 00:00:35,774 --> 00:00:37,732 People are injured and hurt. 17 00:00:37,776 --> 00:00:40,170 - And they haven't found anyone from the office yet. 18 00:00:40,213 --> 00:00:41,997 - People are being carried away. 19 00:00:42,041 --> 00:00:44,565 - Damn it, move! - This is one of the critical. 20 00:00:44,609 --> 00:00:47,046 - Potentially were over a thousand people in there, 21 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:52,182 a daycare facility that housed upwards of 50 kids. 22 00:00:52,225 --> 00:00:55,837 - This is the deadliest terror attack on US soil, ever. 23 00:00:55,881 --> 00:00:58,884 ♪ 24 00:00:58,927 --> 00:01:02,148 - Early on, there was speculation in all quarters. 25 00:01:02,192 --> 00:01:04,933 - A U.S. government source has told "CBS News" 26 00:01:04,977 --> 00:01:07,893 that it has Middle East terrorism written all over it. 27 00:01:07,936 --> 00:01:10,722 - But you let the facts lead the investigation. 28 00:01:10,765 --> 00:01:14,813 - I saw everybody starting to run, which I thought was odd. 29 00:01:14,856 --> 00:01:16,162 But then I heard over a loudspeaker, 30 00:01:16,206 --> 00:01:18,164 "Second bomb. Evacuate." 31 00:01:18,207 --> 00:01:21,558 - Get 'em back! Get 'em back! 32 00:01:21,602 --> 00:01:23,909 - Go! Go! - Get 'em back! 33 00:01:23,951 --> 00:01:25,476 [dramatic music] 34 00:01:25,519 --> 00:01:28,218 - In the FBI, we make a lot of headlines. 35 00:01:28,261 --> 00:01:31,046 ♪ 36 00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:33,179 Drug busts, 37 00:01:33,223 --> 00:01:36,051 mob stings, 38 00:01:36,094 --> 00:01:37,836 terrorist takedowns. 39 00:01:37,879 --> 00:01:39,664 - Get down! Get down! 40 00:01:39,707 --> 00:01:42,319 - We understand why people want to tell stories about us. 41 00:01:42,362 --> 00:01:43,363 - Mark it. 42 00:01:43,407 --> 00:01:44,886 - Freeze! - FBI. 43 00:01:44,930 --> 00:01:46,540 - FBI! - Action! 44 00:01:46,584 --> 00:01:48,455 - But they don't know the half of it. 45 00:01:48,499 --> 00:01:50,064 [indistinct radio chatter] 46 00:01:50,109 --> 00:01:52,155 What really goes down, 47 00:01:52,198 --> 00:01:54,461 we save that for each other 48 00:01:54,505 --> 00:01:56,681 when we're talking agent to agent. 49 00:01:56,724 --> 00:01:59,074 ♪ 50 00:01:59,118 --> 00:02:02,861 This is "FBI True." 51 00:02:11,174 --> 00:02:14,133 [tense music] 52 00:02:14,177 --> 00:02:16,570 ♪ 53 00:02:16,614 --> 00:02:20,139 - Kristy Kottis is a 24-year veteran of the FBI. 54 00:02:20,183 --> 00:02:23,534 She worked gangs, crimes against children, 55 00:02:23,577 --> 00:02:25,971 as well as human and drug trafficking. 56 00:02:26,014 --> 00:02:27,581 Kottis was the supervisor 57 00:02:27,625 --> 00:02:29,844 of the FBI's threat response squad, 58 00:02:29,888 --> 00:02:32,324 overseeing the bureau's response to terrorism threats 59 00:02:32,369 --> 00:02:33,413 in New York City. 60 00:02:37,896 --> 00:02:42,553 - So on that day in 1995, April 19th, 61 00:02:42,596 --> 00:02:44,119 where were you, Barry, 62 00:02:44,163 --> 00:02:46,252 when you first heard about what's happened? 63 00:02:46,296 --> 00:02:47,862 - I'm Tammy Payne in the TV9 newsroom. 64 00:02:47,906 --> 00:02:49,646 If you are anywhere downtown, 65 00:02:49,690 --> 00:02:51,475 you've probably heard it and felt it-- 66 00:02:51,518 --> 00:02:54,259 an explosion of some kind downtown. 67 00:02:54,304 --> 00:02:55,566 - The Alfred P. Murrah Building 68 00:02:55,609 --> 00:02:58,482 in Downtown Oklahoma City ripped apart by, 69 00:02:58,525 --> 00:03:01,702 as far as we could tell, a single explosion. 70 00:03:01,746 --> 00:03:03,487 - We had an arrest warrant for a fugitive. 71 00:03:03,530 --> 00:03:06,185 We thought he might be at Tinker Air Force Base, 72 00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:09,144 which was about seven linear miles from downtown. 73 00:03:09,188 --> 00:03:11,059 It was a tremendous explosion. 74 00:03:11,103 --> 00:03:12,670 - Wow. - Look at that shot. 75 00:03:12,713 --> 00:03:14,672 - Holy cow. - It is absolutely incredible. 76 00:03:14,715 --> 00:03:17,283 The side of the federal building has been blown off. 77 00:03:17,327 --> 00:03:19,111 - It registered 3.2 on the Richter scale, 78 00:03:19,154 --> 00:03:21,287 like an earthquake. - Oh, my gosh. 79 00:03:21,331 --> 00:03:23,420 - Barry Black earned a degree in accounting 80 00:03:23,463 --> 00:03:26,249 before joining the FBI in 1988. 81 00:03:26,292 --> 00:03:29,426 He worked white collar crime before training as a sniper, 82 00:03:29,469 --> 00:03:31,776 and then as a master bomb technician. 83 00:03:31,819 --> 00:03:34,300 - After the explosion, I looked over my shoulder 84 00:03:34,344 --> 00:03:36,476 out to the west to downtown, 85 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,478 and it was just a large black cloud of smoke 86 00:03:38,521 --> 00:03:40,175 starting to blow to the north. 87 00:03:44,441 --> 00:03:46,617 It was clearly a large explosion 88 00:03:46,660 --> 00:03:49,663 just based on the report and the ground shock. 89 00:03:49,707 --> 00:03:52,318 - Bob, where were you that fateful day 90 00:03:52,362 --> 00:03:54,320 on April 19th, 1995? 91 00:03:54,364 --> 00:03:57,497 - On that particular day, I was at a fundraiser-- 92 00:03:57,541 --> 00:03:59,759 a golf tournament in Shawnee, Oklahoma, 93 00:03:59,804 --> 00:04:02,720 which is about 30 miles east of Oklahoma City. 94 00:04:02,763 --> 00:04:05,810 I was with the agent in charge for secret service, 95 00:04:05,853 --> 00:04:08,900 the U.S. marshal, and the FBI supervisor. 96 00:04:08,943 --> 00:04:12,251 Then all of a sudden, all of our pagers went off. 97 00:04:12,295 --> 00:04:15,472 - Bob Ricks joined the FBI in 1969 98 00:04:15,515 --> 00:04:18,300 and became the special agent in charge 99 00:04:18,344 --> 00:04:19,997 of the bureau's Oklahoma office. 100 00:04:20,041 --> 00:04:21,521 He served as commissioner 101 00:04:21,565 --> 00:04:24,437 of the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety, 102 00:04:24,481 --> 00:04:29,050 then chief of police in Edmond, Oklahoma, until 2017. 103 00:04:29,094 --> 00:04:32,619 - So I called my secretary at the FBI office, 104 00:04:32,663 --> 00:04:33,925 and I said, you know, "What's going on?" 105 00:04:33,968 --> 00:04:36,406 She said, "We've had some kind of a bombing 106 00:04:36,449 --> 00:04:38,146 down at the federal building." 107 00:04:38,190 --> 00:04:41,106 - About a third of the building has been blown away. 108 00:04:41,149 --> 00:04:43,195 Uh, this is just devastating. 109 00:04:43,238 --> 00:04:45,197 - And so, we need to get to Oklahoma City 110 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:46,546 and see what the heck is going on. 111 00:04:46,590 --> 00:04:48,243 - It's very chaotic. 112 00:04:48,287 --> 00:04:50,681 We don't know exactly what caused the explosion. 113 00:04:50,724 --> 00:04:52,335 Police reports have said that it is 114 00:04:52,378 --> 00:04:54,424 in the federal courthouse building. 115 00:04:54,467 --> 00:04:57,077 It was the target, and the entire front of it, 116 00:04:57,122 --> 00:04:59,037 from top to bottom, is gone. 117 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,821 - Barry, I know you're a bomb tech. 118 00:05:00,865 --> 00:05:02,388 What are some of the thoughts and options 119 00:05:02,432 --> 00:05:03,737 that are going through your mind? 120 00:05:03,781 --> 00:05:06,827 - In 1995, terrorism was not in the forefront. 121 00:05:06,871 --> 00:05:08,394 We started hearing chatter 122 00:05:08,438 --> 00:05:10,918 about maybe a gas main explosion or a plane crash. 123 00:05:10,962 --> 00:05:13,573 - So you guys jump into your work cars, and-- 124 00:05:13,617 --> 00:05:16,489 - Yeah, we're going, and I'm trying 125 00:05:16,533 --> 00:05:18,578 to get any information that I can. 126 00:05:18,622 --> 00:05:22,060 And I'm now talking to my assistant agent in charge. 127 00:05:22,103 --> 00:05:24,845 Then he says something that resonates forever. 128 00:05:24,889 --> 00:05:28,283 He says, "Bob, you know what today is?" 129 00:05:28,327 --> 00:05:31,722 And I took a pause, and I said, "what do you mean?" 130 00:05:31,765 --> 00:05:34,333 He said, "Today is April the 19th." 131 00:05:34,377 --> 00:05:36,422 And my heart sank. 132 00:05:36,466 --> 00:05:39,556 April 19 was the last day of Waco, 133 00:05:39,599 --> 00:05:41,471 when the conflagration occurred 134 00:05:41,514 --> 00:05:44,125 and the compound was burned to the ground. 135 00:05:44,169 --> 00:05:46,040 - The Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, 136 00:05:46,084 --> 00:05:47,694 went up in flames 137 00:05:47,738 --> 00:05:50,044 after a seven-week standoff with federal agents. 138 00:05:50,088 --> 00:05:53,047 David Koresh and 84 of his followers were killed. 139 00:05:53,091 --> 00:05:55,441 Survivors and the FBI still disagree 140 00:05:55,485 --> 00:05:57,095 about how the fire started. 141 00:05:57,138 --> 00:05:59,967 - The previous year, we were on high alert. 142 00:06:00,011 --> 00:06:02,056 The chatter was high. 143 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:03,623 We expected something-- 144 00:06:03,667 --> 00:06:06,496 some retaliation for the events in Waco. 145 00:06:06,539 --> 00:06:08,585 But nothing happened. 146 00:06:08,628 --> 00:06:11,196 So this is now the two-year anniversary of Waco. 147 00:06:13,285 --> 00:06:14,504 - Are you in the car when you hear 148 00:06:14,547 --> 00:06:16,462 it's the federal building? - Yes. 149 00:06:16,506 --> 00:06:18,116 - And what are your thoughts at that point? 150 00:06:18,159 --> 00:06:19,987 - My wife was a federal probation officer. 151 00:06:20,031 --> 00:06:22,860 She parked in that building. 152 00:06:22,903 --> 00:06:24,252 - Wow. - Her office was 153 00:06:24,296 --> 00:06:27,473 across the street at the old federal courthouse. 154 00:06:27,517 --> 00:06:32,130 So where she was was forefront in my mind. 155 00:06:32,173 --> 00:06:34,393 - Bob, you're the special agent in charge 156 00:06:34,437 --> 00:06:36,264 of the Oklahoma Division, 157 00:06:36,308 --> 00:06:38,484 so you're the decision maker for the FBI. 158 00:06:38,528 --> 00:06:40,921 When do you first roll up on what you're seeing? 159 00:06:40,965 --> 00:06:42,314 - It's total chaos. 160 00:06:42,357 --> 00:06:44,142 - Many people are running around, 161 00:06:44,185 --> 00:06:46,449 trying to find friends and coworkers. 162 00:06:46,492 --> 00:06:48,189 - Sirens are blasting. 163 00:06:48,233 --> 00:06:50,496 Cars are on fire. People are screaming. 164 00:06:50,540 --> 00:06:52,585 People are injured and hurt. 165 00:06:52,629 --> 00:06:54,239 People are being carried away. 166 00:06:54,282 --> 00:06:56,502 - Move! Damn it, move! 167 00:06:56,546 --> 00:06:57,764 - When I arrived that morning, 168 00:06:57,808 --> 00:07:00,506 I was maybe 200 feet from the crater. 169 00:07:00,550 --> 00:07:02,160 There's a 32-foot crater in the street. 170 00:07:02,203 --> 00:07:04,075 - Take me there. What's that? 171 00:07:04,118 --> 00:07:05,380 - I've never seen anything like it. 172 00:07:05,424 --> 00:07:07,557 Most of the federal building was gone. 173 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:08,775 - It is amazing sight. 174 00:07:08,819 --> 00:07:10,342 It's as if somebody came 175 00:07:10,385 --> 00:07:12,866 and sheared off an entire half of the building. 176 00:07:12,910 --> 00:07:14,520 - Cars were burning. 177 00:07:14,564 --> 00:07:17,349 The roof of the adjacent building had been torn off. 178 00:07:17,392 --> 00:07:18,916 Other buildings had collapsed. 179 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:20,874 There were about 300 buildings damaged. 180 00:07:20,918 --> 00:07:24,312 It was a-- it was a tremendous scene. 181 00:07:28,012 --> 00:07:31,450 - At any time of the day in that federal building, 182 00:07:31,494 --> 00:07:33,539 you'll have upwards of a thousand people. 183 00:07:33,583 --> 00:07:35,019 - And who was in that building? 184 00:07:35,062 --> 00:07:38,370 - You have all of the major federal agencies 185 00:07:38,413 --> 00:07:41,199 that are involved-- secret service, ATF, 186 00:07:41,242 --> 00:07:45,595 military department, DEA, social security. 187 00:07:45,638 --> 00:07:47,684 People coming to get their social security benefits 188 00:07:47,726 --> 00:07:49,773 or check on information. 189 00:07:49,816 --> 00:07:52,776 - Didn't that have a fed kid program, or a fed care? 190 00:07:52,819 --> 00:07:54,691 - Kids. - They had a daycare. 191 00:07:54,734 --> 00:08:00,044 A daycare facility that housed upwards of 50 kids. 192 00:08:00,087 --> 00:08:04,570 [children sobbing] 193 00:08:04,614 --> 00:08:07,442 - Your wife's in the building. So what are you thinking? 194 00:08:07,486 --> 00:08:11,359 - I walked the entire block to survey the scene. 195 00:08:11,403 --> 00:08:12,839 They have court security officers-- 196 00:08:12,883 --> 00:08:14,493 we call them blue coats-- 197 00:08:14,537 --> 00:08:19,367 and one that knew both myself and my wife, I saw him. 198 00:08:19,411 --> 00:08:21,108 And I asked if he had seen her. 199 00:08:21,152 --> 00:08:24,285 And he said, yes, she was OK. 200 00:08:24,329 --> 00:08:27,811 Having somebody say that he had seen her, 201 00:08:27,854 --> 00:08:30,117 that freed me up to go ahead and do the rest of the job. 202 00:08:35,688 --> 00:08:39,256 - I'm standing there by myself in front of this crater, 203 00:08:39,299 --> 00:08:42,347 and this building that's been blown away. 204 00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:44,958 And all I can do is just say a prayer 205 00:08:45,002 --> 00:08:47,352 that, you know, "Lord, help me through this, 206 00:08:47,395 --> 00:08:49,354 "'cause I don't think I can do it by myself. 207 00:08:49,397 --> 00:08:51,965 "And just help me find justice 208 00:08:52,009 --> 00:08:53,619 "for those who were killed today 209 00:08:53,663 --> 00:08:54,838 "and those who have been affected 210 00:08:54,881 --> 00:08:57,188 by this horrible tragedy." 211 00:08:57,231 --> 00:08:59,233 Once I said my prayer, 212 00:08:59,277 --> 00:09:01,584 you have to go into a detached mode. 213 00:09:01,627 --> 00:09:05,283 If you continue to focus on the lives 214 00:09:05,326 --> 00:09:09,156 that are being lost and injured, 215 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,071 the emotions will overwhelm you 216 00:09:11,115 --> 00:09:12,246 to the point where it's-- - It's crippling. 217 00:09:12,290 --> 00:09:14,684 - Absolutely. It can just take over, 218 00:09:14,727 --> 00:09:16,816 and you can't respond. 219 00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:18,818 It's crippling, I think, is probably the best way 220 00:09:18,862 --> 00:09:19,950 to describe it. 221 00:09:19,993 --> 00:09:22,909 - [sobbing] 222 00:09:28,393 --> 00:09:29,786 - Paramount right now 223 00:09:29,829 --> 00:09:32,310 is that we're in a life-saving recovery mode. 224 00:09:32,353 --> 00:09:33,572 - Absolutely. 225 00:09:33,616 --> 00:09:35,922 - Barry is working on the bomb side. 226 00:09:35,966 --> 00:09:40,100 But at this point, our focus is saving lives. 227 00:09:40,144 --> 00:09:42,668 And that's always the most important thing. 228 00:09:42,712 --> 00:09:45,236 - They haven't found anyone from the office yet. 229 00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:47,760 - The rescue workers are working at their own risk, 230 00:09:47,804 --> 00:09:49,806 but there is one thing that is certain: 231 00:09:49,849 --> 00:09:53,940 this is the deadliest terror attack on U.S. soil, ever. 232 00:09:53,984 --> 00:09:56,247 - It became evident very early on. 233 00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:59,163 Gas explosions look a little bit different. 234 00:09:59,206 --> 00:10:01,295 The crater, the placement of the crater, 235 00:10:01,339 --> 00:10:03,515 this was going to be what we call an LVB, 236 00:10:03,558 --> 00:10:06,605 a large vehicle bomb, or a vehicle-borne IED. 237 00:10:06,649 --> 00:10:08,738 Not common in the United States, 238 00:10:08,781 --> 00:10:10,696 And it was clearly gonna be 239 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:12,655 several thousand pounds of explosives. 240 00:10:16,093 --> 00:10:17,311 - During this investigation 241 00:10:17,355 --> 00:10:20,053 and as this chaotic scene is unfolding, 242 00:10:20,097 --> 00:10:22,708 something else happened where you had to make a decision 243 00:10:22,752 --> 00:10:26,146 about whether we keep going, recover, or change course. 244 00:10:26,190 --> 00:10:28,932 - After I was there approximately an hour, 245 00:10:28,975 --> 00:10:31,586 we had set up a temporary command post. 246 00:10:31,630 --> 00:10:33,806 So we were about two blocks away. 247 00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:36,113 And communications are awful. 248 00:10:36,156 --> 00:10:38,115 Our cell phones will not work. 249 00:10:38,158 --> 00:10:40,378 All of a sudden, I get a runner that comes in and said, 250 00:10:40,421 --> 00:10:42,162 "There's another bomb in the building!" 251 00:10:42,206 --> 00:10:43,163 - This building was right in it, 252 00:10:43,207 --> 00:10:44,687 and my mom's in there. 253 00:10:44,730 --> 00:10:46,819 - There's a bomb! Move! Move! Move! 254 00:10:46,863 --> 00:10:50,562 [shouting] 255 00:10:50,605 --> 00:10:52,695 - Barry, are you familiar with this second device 256 00:10:52,738 --> 00:10:54,435 that was found, or were you near it? 257 00:10:54,479 --> 00:10:56,046 - I was on the east side of the building, 258 00:10:56,089 --> 00:10:57,917 up where the playground had been, 259 00:10:57,961 --> 00:11:00,398 just trying to assess the blast pattern. 260 00:11:00,441 --> 00:11:02,922 There were kids' toys on the ground, 261 00:11:02,966 --> 00:11:05,533 and there were still victims in the building. 262 00:11:05,577 --> 00:11:07,361 To my left, you could look up 263 00:11:07,405 --> 00:11:09,276 seven, eight, nine stories high. 264 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,843 - And what do you see when you look up? 265 00:11:10,887 --> 00:11:12,540 - Well, there are people in the windows 266 00:11:12,584 --> 00:11:14,455 that desperately wanted down, 267 00:11:14,499 --> 00:11:16,153 waving their arms, making sure-- 268 00:11:16,196 --> 00:11:18,546 they wanted somebody to know that they were still there. 269 00:11:18,590 --> 00:11:20,810 I saw everybody starting to run... 270 00:11:20,853 --> 00:11:23,943 [shouting] 271 00:11:23,987 --> 00:11:25,249 Which I thought was odd. 272 00:11:25,292 --> 00:11:26,903 But then I heard over a loudspeaker, 273 00:11:26,946 --> 00:11:29,427 "Second bomb. Evacuate." 274 00:11:29,470 --> 00:11:32,212 - Let's go! Let's go! 275 00:11:32,256 --> 00:11:34,519 - And it was described as a large wooden box 276 00:11:34,562 --> 00:11:36,782 with explosive markings on it. 277 00:11:36,826 --> 00:11:39,089 It appeared to be a piece of military ordnance 278 00:11:39,132 --> 00:11:40,133 called a tow missile. 279 00:11:40,177 --> 00:11:41,613 - And what does that look like? 280 00:11:41,656 --> 00:11:44,442 - Imagine a long, wooden, rectangular crate. 281 00:11:44,485 --> 00:11:45,835 - OK. - And inside's 282 00:11:45,878 --> 00:11:49,186 a olive drab tube, open on each end. 283 00:11:49,229 --> 00:11:52,058 It's an anti-tank weapon, maybe 6 inches in diameter, 284 00:11:52,102 --> 00:11:55,192 like an old bazooka from the World War II movies, sort of. 285 00:11:55,235 --> 00:11:56,802 - I had to put out the order 286 00:11:56,846 --> 00:11:59,674 to evacuate for their own protection. 287 00:11:59,718 --> 00:12:01,851 - Get 'em back! Get your stuff, right now! 288 00:12:06,681 --> 00:12:09,119 - It's driving me crazy. 289 00:12:09,162 --> 00:12:11,251 There are people who have been seriously injured 290 00:12:11,295 --> 00:12:13,079 that could bleed out 291 00:12:13,123 --> 00:12:15,125 if we don't put tourniquets on them immediately. 292 00:12:15,168 --> 00:12:16,996 There are people's lives that we could save 293 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,216 that we're probably not saving. 294 00:12:19,259 --> 00:12:21,174 - Tell me about the injured that you had to leave behind. 295 00:12:21,218 --> 00:12:22,915 What were they saying? What were they doing? 296 00:12:22,959 --> 00:12:25,091 - They didn't want us to leave, 297 00:12:25,135 --> 00:12:27,311 but we had to leave them. 298 00:12:27,354 --> 00:12:29,313 - What did they say? - "Don't leave." 299 00:12:31,576 --> 00:12:33,970 - Many of them made the hard decision not to leave, 300 00:12:34,013 --> 00:12:36,581 and some people holding the hands 301 00:12:36,624 --> 00:12:38,365 of those who were still breathing. 302 00:12:38,409 --> 00:12:39,889 - Wow. 303 00:12:39,932 --> 00:12:42,543 - Some were carrying out operations on people inside. 304 00:12:42,587 --> 00:12:43,893 - What do you mean? 305 00:12:43,936 --> 00:12:46,025 - We had one lady that was completely trapped. 306 00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:49,812 Her leg was under debris that was so heavy, 307 00:12:49,855 --> 00:12:51,988 they could not remove the debris. 308 00:12:52,031 --> 00:12:53,380 - Wow. - So they were in the process 309 00:12:53,424 --> 00:12:55,818 of amputating her leg when the order went out. 310 00:12:55,861 --> 00:12:57,428 - Her blood pressure was falling. 311 00:12:57,471 --> 00:12:58,864 There was really no choice. 312 00:12:58,908 --> 00:13:00,866 - And they made the decision to stay 313 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:02,694 and to save her life. 314 00:13:02,737 --> 00:13:04,827 - We couldn't lift anything to extract her. 315 00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:06,654 And the only choice, really, 316 00:13:06,698 --> 00:13:08,395 was to either do that or to die. 317 00:13:10,789 --> 00:13:12,182 - There were state and local bomb techs 318 00:13:12,225 --> 00:13:13,748 who went in and recovered the device. 319 00:13:13,792 --> 00:13:17,448 Upon examination, they said, "Something's wrong. 320 00:13:17,491 --> 00:13:20,364 This is a tow missile, but it's inert." 321 00:13:20,407 --> 00:13:22,757 No explosive, no warhead. 322 00:13:22,801 --> 00:13:26,326 So using the serial numbers on the launch tube, 323 00:13:26,370 --> 00:13:28,676 we were able to recreate its origin. 324 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,854 And it was actually part of a undercover sting operation 325 00:13:31,897 --> 00:13:34,291 for another federal agency, so it wasn't a bomb at all. 326 00:13:34,333 --> 00:13:37,163 [siren wailing] 327 00:13:37,207 --> 00:13:38,861 - It seemed like an eternity, 328 00:13:38,904 --> 00:13:41,602 but I think it was close to about 40 minutes. 329 00:13:41,646 --> 00:13:43,648 Finally, we got the word. 330 00:13:43,691 --> 00:13:46,912 So I had to put the order back in that it was all clear 331 00:13:46,956 --> 00:13:48,871 and everybody could go back into the building. 332 00:13:53,658 --> 00:13:55,442 - Bob, I remember hearing some early speculation 333 00:13:55,486 --> 00:13:57,618 on, like, who did what. What were you hearing 334 00:13:57,662 --> 00:13:59,664 as the special agent in charge of this? 335 00:13:59,707 --> 00:14:03,755 - Early on, there was speculation in all quarters. 336 00:14:03,798 --> 00:14:05,713 One particular congressman came out 337 00:14:05,757 --> 00:14:07,454 and made a declarative statement 338 00:14:07,498 --> 00:14:10,501 that this was obviously Middle Eastern terrorism. 339 00:14:10,544 --> 00:14:13,330 - A U.S. government source has told "CBS News" 340 00:14:13,373 --> 00:14:16,159 that it has Middle East terrorism written all over it. 341 00:14:16,202 --> 00:14:18,291 - It looked like a number of bombs 342 00:14:18,335 --> 00:14:20,250 that had occurred in the Middle East, 343 00:14:20,293 --> 00:14:22,992 but you let the facts lead the investigation. 344 00:14:23,035 --> 00:14:25,559 You don't take your theory and make the facts 345 00:14:25,603 --> 00:14:26,734 fit your theory. - Right. 346 00:14:29,607 --> 00:14:31,522 Barry, when as a bomb tech 347 00:14:31,565 --> 00:14:34,220 do we get our first break in this investigation? 348 00:14:34,264 --> 00:14:36,657 - The key piece came very early on. 349 00:14:36,701 --> 00:14:41,314 A reserve deputy called me and my partner, Jim Norman, 350 00:14:41,358 --> 00:14:44,317 over to this rear axle, if you will. 351 00:14:46,102 --> 00:14:47,625 - What's a rear axle? 352 00:14:47,668 --> 00:14:50,236 - Well, it's just the heavy part of the car, 353 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,761 where the differential is, in a rear-wheel drive vehicle. 354 00:14:53,805 --> 00:14:55,546 Thing weighs about 300 pounds. 355 00:14:55,589 --> 00:14:58,810 It exhibited blast damage. 356 00:14:58,853 --> 00:15:00,333 Clearly, it had been extremely close 357 00:15:00,377 --> 00:15:02,205 to the seat of the explosion. 358 00:15:05,251 --> 00:15:07,993 It hit a car outside of tower. 359 00:15:08,037 --> 00:15:09,516 It was twisted. 360 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,823 A lot of explosives use heavy oxidizers. 361 00:15:11,866 --> 00:15:13,390 It was already starting to rust a little bit, 362 00:15:13,433 --> 00:15:15,044 which is another tell. 363 00:15:15,087 --> 00:15:16,697 But on it was stamped 364 00:15:16,741 --> 00:15:19,483 a confidential vehicle identification number. 365 00:15:19,526 --> 00:15:22,051 And the deputy wiped some grease away. 366 00:15:22,094 --> 00:15:24,357 That number was clearly visible. 367 00:15:24,401 --> 00:15:26,751 So I wrote it down, Jim wrote it down. 368 00:15:26,794 --> 00:15:28,579 We compared notes 369 00:15:28,622 --> 00:15:30,668 to make sure there was no transcription error. 370 00:15:30,711 --> 00:15:32,757 And then Jim gave his note to a runner 371 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,888 that took it to the command post. 372 00:15:33,932 --> 00:15:35,978 - So we took that. 373 00:15:36,021 --> 00:15:39,242 We ran it through the National Insurance Crime Bureau 374 00:15:39,285 --> 00:15:40,634 in Dallas. 375 00:15:40,678 --> 00:15:44,073 And within roughly an hour or so, 376 00:15:44,116 --> 00:15:46,336 they are able to trace it, that it's now-- 377 00:15:46,379 --> 00:15:48,338 it comes back to a Ryder truck. 378 00:15:52,951 --> 00:15:56,172 Ryder truck headquarters is in Miami, Florida. 379 00:15:56,215 --> 00:15:59,088 Then we dispatch agents to Miami, Florida, 380 00:15:59,131 --> 00:16:01,481 and we go talk to Ryder truck. 381 00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:04,093 And they were immediately able to determine 382 00:16:04,136 --> 00:16:07,444 that that particular truck had been rented 383 00:16:07,487 --> 00:16:10,969 from an Elliott's Body Shop in Junction City, Kansas. 384 00:16:16,583 --> 00:16:18,629 But I have agents call the Kansas City Division. 385 00:16:18,672 --> 00:16:20,413 We set out leads 386 00:16:20,457 --> 00:16:24,113 that they immediately need to go to Elliott's Body Shop 387 00:16:24,156 --> 00:16:25,810 and get all the details they possibly can. 388 00:16:29,988 --> 00:16:31,381 - What happens then? 389 00:16:31,424 --> 00:16:33,513 - In reviewing the records, we learned 390 00:16:33,557 --> 00:16:35,994 that the truck was rented on April the 17th 391 00:16:36,038 --> 00:16:38,953 by a Robert "Bob" Kling. 392 00:16:38,997 --> 00:16:42,131 He used a South Dakota driver's license, 393 00:16:42,174 --> 00:16:44,872 indicated that he was gonna use the truck for four days, 394 00:16:44,916 --> 00:16:47,397 was gonna go to Omaha, Nebraska. 395 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,443 Not only did they give us the background information, 396 00:16:50,487 --> 00:16:52,141 they gave us descriptions 397 00:16:52,184 --> 00:16:54,404 of what they thought were the people involved. 398 00:16:54,447 --> 00:16:57,407 Initially, they said that there were two people 399 00:16:57,450 --> 00:16:59,278 that came in and rented the truck. 400 00:16:59,322 --> 00:17:01,889 We got an artist's conception that was done 401 00:17:01,933 --> 00:17:04,152 of not only Robert Kling 402 00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:06,416 but the gentleman that he said that was with him. 403 00:17:11,247 --> 00:17:13,292 We have no idea who Bob Kling is. 404 00:17:13,335 --> 00:17:15,077 We don't know if he's a real person. 405 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:16,861 We now take agents, 406 00:17:16,904 --> 00:17:19,820 and we disperse them throughout Junction City. 407 00:17:19,863 --> 00:17:22,606 And we're trying to see if we can come up 408 00:17:22,649 --> 00:17:24,998 with somebody that's had a Ryder truck 409 00:17:25,043 --> 00:17:27,045 that could fit the description 410 00:17:27,089 --> 00:17:29,613 that was given by the people in Elliott's Body Shop. 411 00:17:29,656 --> 00:17:32,094 One particular agent went to a motel 412 00:17:32,137 --> 00:17:34,008 called the Dreamland Motel. 413 00:17:34,052 --> 00:17:38,143 And the owner of the motel says, "As a matter of fact, 414 00:17:38,187 --> 00:17:41,407 "I had a young man in here who had a Ryder truck, 415 00:17:41,451 --> 00:17:43,801 had rented his room for four days." 416 00:17:43,844 --> 00:17:48,240 It started on a Friday before, on the 14th, 417 00:17:48,284 --> 00:17:50,721 and had checked out on the 18th. 418 00:17:50,764 --> 00:17:52,940 The registration turns out to be 419 00:17:52,984 --> 00:17:56,292 in the name of a gentleman by the name of Timothy McVeigh. 420 00:17:59,512 --> 00:18:02,036 We have no idea who Timothy McVeigh is. 421 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,386 There's no criminal history. 422 00:18:03,429 --> 00:18:06,215 We also show the owner of the motel 423 00:18:06,258 --> 00:18:07,738 the artist's conception, 424 00:18:07,781 --> 00:18:10,262 and she says, "Yes, that looks almost exactly 425 00:18:10,306 --> 00:18:13,222 like the gentleman that had rented the room." 426 00:18:16,399 --> 00:18:17,965 So then we checked telephone records, 427 00:18:18,009 --> 00:18:20,664 and we learned that Timothy McVeigh has, 428 00:18:20,707 --> 00:18:22,579 over the four-day period that he was there, 429 00:18:22,622 --> 00:18:24,189 made four or five calls. 430 00:18:24,233 --> 00:18:27,236 One of those was to a local business there 431 00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:29,499 called the Hunam Palace, 432 00:18:29,542 --> 00:18:32,066 which is a Chinese place, for takeout. 433 00:18:32,110 --> 00:18:34,765 Made an order of moo goo gai pan 434 00:18:34,808 --> 00:18:37,942 to be delivered to room number 25 435 00:18:37,985 --> 00:18:40,814 under the name of Robert Kling. 436 00:18:44,340 --> 00:18:46,516 So now, for the first time, 437 00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:49,562 we have somebody else associated with Robert Kling. 438 00:18:49,606 --> 00:18:52,043 Is Timothy McVeigh Robert Kling, 439 00:18:52,086 --> 00:18:53,871 or is there a second person involved? 440 00:18:53,914 --> 00:18:55,829 We do not know at this stage. 441 00:18:55,873 --> 00:19:00,225 But we do know now that we have Kling 442 00:19:00,269 --> 00:19:02,096 associated with Timothy McVeigh. 443 00:19:02,140 --> 00:19:04,969 Timothy McVeigh also had a Ryder truck. 444 00:19:05,012 --> 00:19:07,580 We now really have probable cause 445 00:19:07,624 --> 00:19:12,019 that a Timothy McVeigh somehow is involved 446 00:19:12,063 --> 00:19:13,934 with the bombing in Oklahoma. 447 00:19:17,286 --> 00:19:20,332 - There was an offline NCIC search 448 00:19:20,376 --> 00:19:22,552 for the name of Timothy McVeigh, 449 00:19:22,595 --> 00:19:24,336 and that search revealed 450 00:19:24,380 --> 00:19:26,904 that he had been arrested by an Oklahoma Highway patrolman. 451 00:19:30,429 --> 00:19:32,344 - So he's under arrest? - Yes. 452 00:19:32,388 --> 00:19:34,825 He was in custody about 90 minutes after the bombing. 453 00:19:34,868 --> 00:19:36,087 - OK. - An Oklahoma Highway 454 00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:38,263 patrol trooper had stopped McVeigh 455 00:19:38,307 --> 00:19:39,917 northbound on I-35, 456 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,267 going away from Oklahoma City towards Kansas. 457 00:19:42,311 --> 00:19:44,965 He was passed by this yellow Mercury. 458 00:19:45,009 --> 00:19:47,664 And he noticed the Mercury didn't have a license plate, 459 00:19:47,707 --> 00:19:50,319 so he pulled the car over for failing to display a plate. 460 00:19:55,541 --> 00:19:57,369 McVeigh got out. 461 00:19:57,413 --> 00:20:00,242 And the trooper noticed a bulge under McVeigh's jacket 462 00:20:00,285 --> 00:20:02,287 and recognized it as a pistol. 463 00:20:02,331 --> 00:20:04,202 - Oh, wow. 464 00:20:04,246 --> 00:20:05,899 - McVeigh said, "I've got a gun, and it's loaded." 465 00:20:05,943 --> 00:20:07,771 And Trooper Hanger pulled his pistol, 466 00:20:07,814 --> 00:20:09,860 put it to McVeigh's head, and said, "So is mine." 467 00:20:09,903 --> 00:20:11,775 - Oh, wow. Yeah, well, there you go. 468 00:20:11,818 --> 00:20:14,038 - He was booked into the county jail. 469 00:20:18,608 --> 00:20:20,479 - My right-hand man came in and said, 470 00:20:20,523 --> 00:20:21,915 "Boss, you're not gonna believe this. 471 00:20:21,959 --> 00:20:24,178 Timothy McVeigh is in custody." 472 00:20:30,010 --> 00:20:31,447 And I said, "What?" - Yeah. 473 00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:33,275 - And he said, "He was arrested 474 00:20:33,318 --> 00:20:36,626 "approximately 90 minutes after the bombing 475 00:20:36,669 --> 00:20:39,846 and is currently in jail in Noble County, Oklahoma." 476 00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:41,326 - Unbelievable. 477 00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:43,023 - But he's getting ready to have an appearance 478 00:20:43,067 --> 00:20:45,330 before the judge and is gonna be released. 479 00:20:45,374 --> 00:20:47,941 I use the National Guard helicopter, 480 00:20:47,985 --> 00:20:49,552 and I dispatch a team. 481 00:20:53,643 --> 00:20:56,472 I have a special agent in charge from Dallas, 482 00:20:56,515 --> 00:21:00,389 and his assistant, as well as two of my agents, 483 00:21:00,432 --> 00:21:04,349 and I dispatch them up to Perry, Oklahoma, 484 00:21:04,393 --> 00:21:07,004 to make the arrest of Timothy McVeigh. 485 00:21:08,788 --> 00:21:10,964 - I flew up. We called ahead. 486 00:21:11,008 --> 00:21:13,140 Had the troopers find us a spot to land 487 00:21:13,184 --> 00:21:14,577 on the side of the highway. 488 00:21:14,620 --> 00:21:16,361 I hopped out to stay with the car 489 00:21:16,405 --> 00:21:17,928 until we got a warrant for it. 490 00:21:20,365 --> 00:21:21,845 You always have to be concerned about, 491 00:21:21,888 --> 00:21:23,847 you know, explosives or booby traps, 492 00:21:23,890 --> 00:21:26,153 or other types of forensic evidence like fingerprints, 493 00:21:26,197 --> 00:21:27,764 hairs, fibers, such and such. 494 00:21:27,807 --> 00:21:29,287 And the rest of the group went over 495 00:21:29,331 --> 00:21:30,506 to take custody of McVeigh. 496 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,687 - The team that was dispatched up to Perry, 497 00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:41,125 they immediately go in and ask him, 498 00:21:41,168 --> 00:21:42,735 "Do you know why we're here?" 499 00:21:42,779 --> 00:21:44,215 And he says, 500 00:21:44,258 --> 00:21:46,086 "It's probably about that Oklahoma City thing." 501 00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:47,653 - Wow. 502 00:21:47,697 --> 00:21:49,699 - So then they give him his Miranda rights. 503 00:21:49,742 --> 00:21:51,527 And he says, "I do not want to speak 504 00:21:51,570 --> 00:21:54,181 until I confer with my attorney." 505 00:21:54,225 --> 00:21:56,662 So that was the sum total of the conversation 506 00:21:56,706 --> 00:21:58,447 that we had with Timothy McVeigh. 507 00:21:58,490 --> 00:22:00,927 We never had any other discussions. 508 00:22:02,451 --> 00:22:04,278 - McVeigh was held for two days 509 00:22:04,322 --> 00:22:07,151 and was minutes from a likely release on bond 510 00:22:07,194 --> 00:22:09,414 when FBI agents using a computer 511 00:22:09,458 --> 00:22:11,808 found that the most wanted man in America 512 00:22:11,851 --> 00:22:15,159 was already in jail. 513 00:22:15,202 --> 00:22:16,682 - As you can imagine, the tensions 514 00:22:16,726 --> 00:22:18,815 are rising significantly in Oklahoma. 515 00:22:22,384 --> 00:22:27,171 People know people or have relatives that have died. 516 00:22:27,214 --> 00:22:29,913 And right now, even in Perry, Oklahoma, 517 00:22:29,956 --> 00:22:32,132 there's crowds that are starting to gather. 518 00:22:32,176 --> 00:22:33,786 They're starting to get noisy. 519 00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:37,442 [shouting] 520 00:22:37,486 --> 00:22:40,924 So we're very much concerned about a-- 521 00:22:40,967 --> 00:22:42,969 a Jack Ruby situation. 522 00:22:45,058 --> 00:22:47,060 [gunshot] - He's been shot. 523 00:22:47,104 --> 00:22:50,194 Oswald has been shot. Lee Oswald. 524 00:22:50,237 --> 00:22:53,197 - We have to actually protect Timothy McVeigh now 525 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,460 to make sure he's not assassinated. 526 00:22:55,504 --> 00:22:58,768 So we come up with a plan of using a van 527 00:22:58,811 --> 00:23:02,162 to back it up closely to where he is. 528 00:23:02,206 --> 00:23:03,773 And we march him out 529 00:23:03,816 --> 00:23:05,688 so that the public can actually see him. 530 00:23:08,038 --> 00:23:10,388 [shouting] 531 00:23:12,521 --> 00:23:14,261 - You murderer! 532 00:23:14,305 --> 00:23:15,828 - They were, you know, booing. 533 00:23:15,872 --> 00:23:18,048 A lot of emotion. 534 00:23:18,091 --> 00:23:21,530 - Tonight in Perry, Oklahoma, suspect Tim McVeigh, 535 00:23:21,573 --> 00:23:24,358 among the most wanted men in American history, 536 00:23:24,402 --> 00:23:25,795 was escorted from the courthouse. 537 00:23:25,838 --> 00:23:27,666 - Well, now we're trying to see, 538 00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:29,233 who is Timothy McVeigh? 539 00:23:29,276 --> 00:23:30,974 What is his role in the bombing? 540 00:23:31,017 --> 00:23:32,671 It doesn't appear logical 541 00:23:32,715 --> 00:23:35,065 that one person could do it on his own. 542 00:23:35,108 --> 00:23:37,850 Did he participate in building the bomb? 543 00:23:37,894 --> 00:23:39,765 Was he just a coconspirator? 544 00:23:39,809 --> 00:23:41,375 And were others involved? 545 00:23:44,509 --> 00:23:46,424 We do not have the whole picture. 546 00:23:50,994 --> 00:23:53,257 - Now with one suspect in jail, 547 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:56,521 the FBI says another remains on the loose. 548 00:23:56,565 --> 00:23:57,827 - They knew when it was gonna happen. 549 00:23:57,870 --> 00:23:59,306 They knew where it was gonna happen. 550 00:23:59,350 --> 00:24:01,047 And they knew how it was gonna happen. 551 00:24:05,748 --> 00:24:07,663 - Not only are we trying to prove a criminal case, 552 00:24:07,706 --> 00:24:09,099 we want to know why. 553 00:24:09,142 --> 00:24:10,579 Why did this happen? 554 00:24:10,622 --> 00:24:13,407 What could cause somebody to do this? 555 00:24:13,451 --> 00:24:15,932 - The basic tenets of, you know, hatred, 556 00:24:15,975 --> 00:24:18,325 hatred for the government, are alive and well. 557 00:24:18,369 --> 00:24:20,023 [explosion] 558 00:24:20,066 --> 00:24:21,415 - All right, they're going into the house. 559 00:24:21,459 --> 00:24:23,287 They are walking into the house. 560 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:25,507 - Literally, he was trying to start a war 561 00:24:25,550 --> 00:24:27,334 against the United States. 562 00:24:32,644 --> 00:24:35,604 [tense music] 563 00:24:35,647 --> 00:24:41,566 ♪