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[ominous music]

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- It was probably the most
important case

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that I've ever worked on.

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- And we had the chance...

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- [Bill and Ben]: To change
history.

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[clock tick-tock]

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[reporter]: As worshippers
gathered for church on a Sunday
morning...

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[loud explosion]

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exploding dynamite shattered
Birmingham's 16th Street
Baptist Church.

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- That church had really become
a symbol, as one of the largest,

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most active black churches
in Birmingham.

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[reporter]: The church had
served as a staging area for

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the city's Civil Rights
Movement, led by Dr. Martin
Luther King Jr.

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[Doug]: Birmingham was known
as "Bombingham"

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because of bombings in
the black neighborhood.

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- 41 since the end
of World War II.
[Doug]: Yeah.

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[reporter]: Four young girls
dressing for the choir
were killed.

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- The FBI flooded
Birmingham with agents.

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They interviewed Klans
members, Klans members' wives.

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[Kristy]: Individuals that we'd
already identified from previous
intelligence gathering.

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[reporter]: The tragedy became
a symbol of the violent

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and bitter Civil Rights
era in the South.

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[suspenseful music]

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- These were four innocent
little girls that died

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because of the color
of their skin.

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And that was something that
really shook the conscience
of the country.

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[journalist]: In Washington,
the government has now ordered

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a new look into the racially
motivated bombing

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of a Black church in Birmingham,
Alabama, more than three decades
ago.

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[reporter]: One man was
convicted, but police believe
several others got away.

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- This is absolutely the last
time it can be investigated.

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because we were losing too many
witnesses, too many suspects.

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- The people that bomb and kill
our innocent citizens and

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children, we will
never give up.

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[narrator]: In the FBI,
we make a lot of headlines.

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Drug busts, mob stings,

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terrorist takedowns.

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[people shouting]

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We understand why people
want to tell stories about us,

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- Mark it!
- Freeze!

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- FBI.

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- FBI!
[man in the distance]: Action!

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[narrator]: But they don't
know the half of it.

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What really goes down?

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We save that for each other whn
we're talking agent to agent.

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This is FBI, True.

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- 60 years ago,
September 15th, 1963.

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[narrator]: Kristy Kottis
is a 24-year veteran of the FB.

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She worked gangs, crimes againt
children as well as human

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and drug trafficking.

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- Ben, where were you?

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- I was nine years old,
and I was at home.

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It was a Sunday.

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[narrator]: Birmingham,
Alabama, native Ben Herren

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served on his hometown's police
department for nearly

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two decades, before being
tapped to join the FBI's

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reinvestigation of the 16th
street Baptist church bombing.

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- Did your parents speak
of the bombing at all or...

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- I was pretty much
shielded.

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- Doug, how about you?
Where were you?

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- It's really similar
to Ben because we actually

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grew up not far from each other.

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[narrator]: Doug Jones was
appointed as the United States

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Attorney for the Northern
District of Alabama in 1997.

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20 years later,
he was elected U.S. Senator

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for Alabama, a role he held
until 2021.

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- And when he says shielded,

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I think that that
is the real key.

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I mean, you got to understand,
in those days,

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these were very
segregated neighborhoods.

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[reporter]: Birmingham
is the largest segregated city
in the South.

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Every phase of activity;
business, cultural and social
is segregated.

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- And Bill, how about you?
Where were you on that day?

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- Well, I wasn't living
in Birmingham at the time.

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I was living in Albany, Georgia.

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But attitudes were very similar
to the attitudes in Birmingham.

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[narrator]: Bill Fleming is
a 33-year-veteran of the FBI.

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Based in the Birmingham
field office,

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he focused on civil rights cass
in the latter years

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of his career.

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[ominous music]

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- The victims in this blast.

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Who are they?

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- There were four children.

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They were dressed in their
finest dresses and

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they were going down to
the restroom right before church

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to spiffy up, to clean up
a little bit.

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[stressful music]

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Three of them were 14 years old.

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You had Addie Mae Collins,

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Carole Robinson,

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Cynthia Wesley
and Denise McNair.

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She was the youngest of them.

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There was another girl that was
down there,

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which was the sister
of Addie Mae.

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She was actually at the sink
and she was not killed,

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but one of her eyes
was actually blinded.

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[sinister music]

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- So how big was
this explosion?

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- The bomb was pretty powerful.

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I mean, it was placed underneath
the bottom step

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of some concrete steps
that led on the outside
of the building.

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[explosion]

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[riveting music]

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- And on the other side
of the wall was the little
girl's bathroom.

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And with the steps, it just made
the perfect explosion

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because all of it went sideways
into the church

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and across the street
and into the cars.

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And it went down.

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There was a crater
at least five feet deep.

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- What about the rest
of the church structure itself?

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- There was...one interesting
scene was the...

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it had a big glass...
- Stained glass.

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- Stained glass of Jesus.

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And the main damage was
the face of Jesus was blown out.

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It was like, He couldn't
bear to see it.

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- Yeah.
- Couldn't bear to witness it.

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- Doug, so how did the families
find out about the victims?

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- In different ways.

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Maxine McNair had taken Denise
that morning and Maxine

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was in her Sunday-school class,
which was right above

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where the bomb exploded.

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So when she heard the bomb,
they really weren't sure

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if it was a bomb.

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She said that it might
have been a plane crash.

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But all she knew was
it was coming from below there.

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And she just screamed out:
"My baby! My baby!"

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Denise's father went to
the church only to be told

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he needed to go to the hospital,
the makeshift morgue.

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That's where he identified
Denise, his only daughter.

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Ms. Robertson was at home,
they lived a few blocks away,

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and Carole had come earlier.

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So Ms. Robertson was getting
dressed for the church service

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when she heard the blast.

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And she said that it sounded
like the whole world was
shaking.

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It did.

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- There was one bomb
technician from headquarters

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that was put on a military plane
flown to Birmingham,

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and he was there within
two hours after the bomb
went off

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so that he could start
the investigation
of the bombing.

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[violin sad music]

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- And in fact the State
swooped in

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and tried to investigate.

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But they spend all their time
trying to prove that members

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of the Black community bombed
that church to try to get

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sympathy for the civil rights
movement.

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- So instead of investigating
the facts

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as they were laying out,
they instead tried to build

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an inculpatory case for,
basically the Klan?

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- Exactly.
- What's the federal response?

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- Mr. Hoover sent 50 agents
in Birmingham.

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- It's a full on
investigative endeavor.
- Oh, yes.

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- Big time.
- Major.

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Major, probably the biggest
one the bureau had worked.

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Even though we didn't, per se,
have a direct connection

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to that crime because it was
a state offense at that time.

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[sad music]

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- As we're leading up into
the bombing, the significance

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of 1963 cannot be
overemphasized.

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You know, it was in
the spring of 1963

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that the Children's Marches
occurred...

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[dramatic music]

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and they would meet
inside the church and literally

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go into the intersection
outside...

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before Bull Connor hit them
with fire hoses and dogs.

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Bull Connor was
the police commissioner.

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He was an old, racist public
servant and he literally

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is the one who set the fire
hoses and dogs on the kids.

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And then in the summer,

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in August,
the "I Have a Dream" speech,

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Dr. King's speech on the Mall.

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- One day right down in Alabama,
little Black boys

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and Black girls will be able to
join hands with little white

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boys and white girls as sisters
and brothers.

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I have a dream today.

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- And there was a lot of hope
in the air for civil rights
at the time.

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But in Birmingham, the lawsuit
that had been filed

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to desegregate the schools was
finished and the Birmingham

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city schools were desegregated
five days before this bombing.

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It's a cliche to say it,
but with what happened,

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but Birmingham literally was
like a powder keg

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because of school desegregation
at that point.

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- And I say segregation now,
segregation tomorrow, and
segregation forever.

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[crowd chanting]: Two, four,
six, eight, we don't want
to integrate.

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- And it was on that Sunday,
the 15th where that powder keg
got lit.

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[explosion]

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- Bill, give me a little
idea of what the FBI agents

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and all the assets that the FBI
sent to Birmingham,

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what are they doing
at this time?

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- They are going through
talking to the Klan.

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They're talking to people
that we had cases on already

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just because they were members
of the Klan.

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- You know, Birmingham had like
13 or 14 different klaverns,

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which were Klan chapters.

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They quickly developed suspects.

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I mean, there was
a group that was pretty violent.

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They were known as
the Cahaba River Bridge Boys

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and they would meet under
a bridge in Birmingham.

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People like Bobby Frank Cherry.

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[slow music]

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Tommy Blanton...

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and that ringleader was a guy
named Robert Chambliss.

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He was known as "Dynamite Bob".

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He was thought to be involved
in a number of the bombings
in Birmingham.

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[suspenseful music]

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And they would interview these
guys and they would talk

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to each other and they would
be inconsistent.

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And so they really were able
to focus on

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the Cahaba River Bridge boys
as the prime suspects
in the bombing.

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- This investigation started
in 1963.

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00:14:08,021 --> 00:14:09,892
Do we get any convictions
at this point?

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00:14:09,936 --> 00:14:11,328
- No.
- What happens?

213
00:14:11,372 --> 00:14:13,461
- The bureau spent an incredible
amount of resources,

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00:14:13,504 --> 00:14:15,898
but in those days, there was
really only a five-year statute

215
00:14:15,942 --> 00:14:18,553
of limitations for civil rights
deaths.

216
00:14:18,596 --> 00:14:22,905
And so in 1968, there
had been no indictments,

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00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:24,951
and J. Edgar Hoover closes
the case.

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I think everybody had a really
good idea who committed

219
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this bombing, but there was just
not enough that could be used

220
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in a court of law.

221
00:14:32,349 --> 00:14:35,222
[sad music]

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And you had an all-white jury,
all male white jury,

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and they would have never
convicted those guys.

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- And one of them would have
been a Klansman in all
likelihood.

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- Now, I know there was
a lot of controversy

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00:14:49,410 --> 00:14:50,933
when the FBI did close
that case.

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00:14:50,977 --> 00:14:53,762
A lot of people may have felt
the bureau's not interested

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and Mr. Hoover's just closing
this case.

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- And that's really unfair.

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It really is.

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00:14:58,506 --> 00:15:00,377
I'm no defender of Hoover.

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But the fact of the matter
is that the bureau put forth
a lot of effort.

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There was this, this code
of silence among the Klansmen.

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00:15:07,950 --> 00:15:10,344
And you didn't have any
DNA type stuff.

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You didn't really have anything
that could connect anybody,

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per se.

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- When does this case
get brought back up again?

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00:15:24,184 --> 00:15:27,578
- The first time it gets brought
back up again is by

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00:15:27,622 --> 00:15:30,103
the Alabama Attorney General,
Bill Baxley.

240
00:15:32,018 --> 00:15:37,066
He reopened the case
in 1971 when he was sworn in.

241
00:15:38,111 --> 00:15:40,156
- The FBI is not
involved at this point?

242
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,506
- No.
- We might have given them
some documents

243
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:45,118
or let them review files.
Something like that.

244
00:15:45,161 --> 00:15:46,597
- Let's be candid.

245
00:15:46,641 --> 00:15:49,426
At that time, the FBI
didn't cooperate with Baxley.

246
00:15:49,470 --> 00:15:51,951
- You know, you've got to
remember, though, George Wallace

247
00:15:51,994 --> 00:15:53,648
was still the governor
of Alabama.

248
00:15:53,691 --> 00:15:55,780
- Right.
- And you had a young attorney
general who was pretty

249
00:15:55,824 --> 00:15:58,435
progressive wanting to do this,
but the FBI didn't trust

250
00:15:58,479 --> 00:16:01,917
the state of Alabama and they
didn't like giving out their
files.

251
00:16:01,961 --> 00:16:06,443
This was mainly a state case
with some FBI assistance,

252
00:16:06,487 --> 00:16:07,836
but very little.

253
00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:10,099
- Attorney General Bill Baxley
acknowledged today

254
00:16:10,143 --> 00:16:15,844
that the investigation
of the 1963 Birmingham church
bombing has been reopened.

255
00:16:16,366 --> 00:16:19,979
But in the Attorney General's
words: "there are some people

256
00:16:20,022 --> 00:16:23,112
in Jefferson County who ought to
be pretty nervous right now."

257
00:16:29,075 --> 00:16:31,903
- It took several years
for Bill Baxley's team

258
00:16:31,947 --> 00:16:35,864
to really get the evidence
to indict one individual,
Robert Chambliss.

259
00:16:35,907 --> 00:16:38,693
[suspenseful music]

260
00:16:40,869 --> 00:16:43,741
And they only had enough
evidence based on the testimony

261
00:16:43,785 --> 00:16:49,051
of a niece of Robert
Chambliss's, the girlfriend
of one

262
00:16:49,095 --> 00:16:51,358
of the other Klansmen, and
a couple of other people.

263
00:16:51,401 --> 00:16:54,448
[reporter]: Mrs. Cobbs related
a conversation she said

264
00:16:54,491 --> 00:16:56,711
she had with Chambliss the day
before the bombing

265
00:16:56,754 --> 00:16:59,061
of the 16th Street
Baptist Church.

266
00:17:12,204 --> 00:17:14,163
[reporter]: Mrs. Cobbs said
she was watching television

267
00:17:14,207 --> 00:17:16,425
with Chambliss a week later,
when a news report

268
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:18,602
on the church bombing
investigation came on.

269
00:17:18,646 --> 00:17:22,127
She described his reaction
as he watched the report.

270
00:17:29,831 --> 00:17:32,007
- They tried the case
in Birmingham.

271
00:17:33,487 --> 00:17:37,012
Baxley personally tried the case
along with a couple of others.

272
00:17:39,362 --> 00:17:42,626
At the time, in 1977, I was
a second-year law student

273
00:17:42,670 --> 00:17:46,065
in Birmingham, and I wanted to
be a trial lawyer.

274
00:17:47,414 --> 00:17:49,764
And so I cut classes and
went and watched that trial.

275
00:17:49,807 --> 00:17:55,465
Baxley elected to only charge on
the murder of Denise McNair.

276
00:17:57,163 --> 00:18:00,644
They believed at the time
that if they only charged

277
00:18:00,688 --> 00:18:04,822
one death and he was acquitted,
that they might,

278
00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:06,824
could then go back
and charge the others.

279
00:18:06,868 --> 00:18:09,349
And ultimately,
Chambliss was convicted.

280
00:18:26,322 --> 00:18:28,368
- We've been talking about
the past generations

281
00:18:28,411 --> 00:18:30,021
of investigative teams.

282
00:18:30,065 --> 00:18:32,894
Tell me about your generation
of FBI and how it gets involved.

283
00:18:32,937 --> 00:18:34,722
- In the early nineties,
the Bureau and

284
00:18:34,765 --> 00:18:36,202
the Black community
in Birmingham

285
00:18:36,245 --> 00:18:38,160
had gotten a little bit
at odds.

286
00:18:38,204 --> 00:18:42,904
And SAC Rob Langford started
going to some of the black
churches.

287
00:18:43,513 --> 00:18:45,863
And at one meeting with some
of these black leaders,

288
00:18:45,907 --> 00:18:47,343
they said: "we'd like for you
to take a look"

289
00:18:47,387 --> 00:18:49,519
at the 16th street Baptist
church bombing.

290
00:18:49,563 --> 00:18:52,435
We know that more than
Robert Chambliss was involved.

291
00:18:52,479 --> 00:18:56,657
- And Mr. Langford, he called me
and he said, told me

292
00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:01,488
he was considering reopening
the 16th Street Church Bombing.

293
00:19:01,531 --> 00:19:03,185
- Okay.
- And he said:

294
00:19:03,229 --> 00:19:06,232
"I would like you to, to be
in charge of it."

295
00:19:06,275 --> 00:19:08,930
And of course, I was not exactly
excited...

296
00:19:08,973 --> 00:19:10,366
- Why not?
- Because I looked at it

297
00:19:10,410 --> 00:19:14,892
as a 33-year-old case with
nobody coming forward,

298
00:19:14,936 --> 00:19:18,592
with no new evidence being
discovered,

299
00:19:18,635 --> 00:19:20,985
with no smoking gun, nothing.

300
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:24,206
- Ben, tell me about when
you become involved in this
case directly.

301
00:19:24,250 --> 00:19:27,514
- Well, in 1995 I was
the detective sergeant

302
00:19:27,557 --> 00:19:28,819
in the burglary unit.

303
00:19:28,863 --> 00:19:31,779
My beeper goes off at the time
and it tells me

304
00:19:31,822 --> 00:19:33,520
to report to the chief's office.

305
00:19:33,563 --> 00:19:34,912
And he tells me, says:

306
00:19:34,956 --> 00:19:36,740
"Ben, I want you to go over
and meet with the FBI.

307
00:19:36,784 --> 00:19:41,267
And they're talking about
reopening the 16th Street
Church case

308
00:19:41,310 --> 00:19:44,183
and just see if it's feasible".

309
00:19:44,226 --> 00:19:46,968
And the chief ask me:
"What do you think about it"

310
00:19:47,011 --> 00:19:49,579
I said: "well?
I really don't think we have

311
00:19:49,623 --> 00:19:53,931
a lot of chance to convict
somebody, but this is absolutely

312
00:19:53,975 --> 00:19:57,718
the last time it can be
investigated because we were
losing too many witnesses,

313
00:19:57,761 --> 00:20:02,113
too many suspects, and if we're
going to do it, let's do
it right."

314
00:20:02,157 --> 00:20:05,247
And I go over to that meeting
and I look around

315
00:20:05,291 --> 00:20:08,729
and it's Bill and I,
we are the task force.

316
00:20:08,772 --> 00:20:10,034
[Bill laughs]
- Oh!

317
00:20:10,078 --> 00:20:11,906
- And that's how
we got started in it.

318
00:20:14,125 --> 00:20:15,910
- As you're going through
the file,

319
00:20:15,953 --> 00:20:19,435
what do you decide is
the first or next step?

320
00:20:20,219 --> 00:20:22,786
- Well, the first thing
that we wanted to do

321
00:20:22,830 --> 00:20:26,703
is familiarize yourself with
the old investigation.

322
00:20:26,747 --> 00:20:30,794
All the files, probably 10,000
documents we had to go through.

323
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:33,623
- What do you learn about
Bobby Frank Cherry

324
00:20:33,667 --> 00:20:35,234
in those original case files?

325
00:20:35,277 --> 00:20:38,280
- Cherry is all over
the board, but he's making

326
00:20:38,324 --> 00:20:43,459
certain admissions about being
at the Modern Sign Shop

327
00:20:44,155 --> 00:20:47,115
where they were all gathered
the night before this bombing

328
00:20:47,158 --> 00:20:49,857
and that Blanton was there,
that Robert Chambliss

329
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,162
and others were there.

330
00:20:51,206 --> 00:20:54,644
- And I thought the best
opportunity at the time

331
00:20:54,688 --> 00:20:56,777
would be interview Cherry first.

332
00:20:57,343 --> 00:21:00,694
And we had to keep it a secret
from the press,

333
00:21:00,737 --> 00:21:03,436
from other police departments,
from everybody else.

334
00:21:03,479 --> 00:21:05,568
So we could hit Cherry cold.

335
00:21:08,963 --> 00:21:11,182
[reporter]: Flanked by his
attorney, and followed by

336
00:21:11,226 --> 00:21:14,447
cameras, Bobby Frank Cherry,
a former Klansman,

337
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:17,145
came here to answer questions
about his past.

338
00:21:17,188 --> 00:21:21,323
- He is saying: "the FBI
is bothering me again.

339
00:21:21,367 --> 00:21:26,154
It's been 30 years and they have
been harassing me all my life".

340
00:21:31,333 --> 00:21:33,379
- When Bob Cherry called that
press conference

341
00:21:33,422 --> 00:21:35,598
that's when the phone
started ringing.

342
00:21:36,033 --> 00:21:39,776
- The phone rings and I answer
it, and it's Cherry's
granddaughter.

343
00:21:39,820 --> 00:21:43,650
She related that on numerous
family events

344
00:21:43,693 --> 00:21:46,348
that Cherry would brag about
blowing up the church.

345
00:21:47,871 --> 00:21:50,483
- In 1963, there was electronic
surveillance everywhere.

346
00:21:50,526 --> 00:21:54,356
The FBI was monitoring Blanton
and we knew that there was

347
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,186
some significant information
in these tapes.

348
00:21:58,229 --> 00:21:59,796
We just didn't know where
the hell the tapes were.

349
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,844
- I see this box by the corner,
like it's fixing to be thrown

350
00:22:03,887 --> 00:22:07,761
in the trash and there's eight
tapes, in there.

351
00:22:14,376 --> 00:22:16,596
- And as I start saying:
"Doug on the tape...",

352
00:22:16,639 --> 00:22:18,511
He says "Stop, stop, stop.
Don't tell me."

353
00:22:18,554 --> 00:22:20,556
- We may not be able to use
the tapes.

354
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,864
And because you've heard them,
you may get tainted

355
00:22:23,907 --> 00:22:25,126
for the rest
of the investigation.

356
00:22:25,169 --> 00:22:26,693
I'm thinking:
"I'm out of the case now".

357
00:22:37,094 --> 00:22:40,402
Subtitling: difuze