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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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SAMMY: One by one,
they called us down the basement.

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Paul asked me, "Do you know that
we're a brotherhood?

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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A secret society?"

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He says, "If we ask you to kill for
us, would you?"

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I said, "Yes."

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If you listen to the oath, there's
honor, there's integrity, there's loyalty.

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But unfortunately, none
of it is true.

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KAREN: I never seen the Sammy the
Bull that the world knows.

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To me, he was my father.

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SAMMY: Why would I talk about
what I do with a kid?

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-(gun cocks)
-(gunshot rings)

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I'm doing murders.

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What am I going to do,
come home, sit down, and say,

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"Hey, you know who
I killed today?"

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Break an arm here,
break a leg there.

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Hey, you were a tough guy.

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TERENCE: They get to rationalize a
lot of really bad behavior.

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They're doing this as
part of their job.

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JOHN M.:To steal money through fear
and intimidation.

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KAREN: Each and every person
that chose that world

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knew what they were
getting into.

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Some women closed their
eyes to things.

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LINDA: For a lot of people, being
wealthy and having whatever you want

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is worth whatever it is
that you don't want to know.

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There was some dos and don'ts.

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Don't kill anybody without
permission. Don't rat. That's the big one.

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Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

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SAMMY: I lived a double life.

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I live a family life,
and I'm a gangster.

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Once you go in, it's
all in or nothing.

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SAMMY: We shook the mafia.

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We shook the state of New York.

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We shook the whole world.

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♪♪

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DETECTIVE: About 5:30 this evening,
right at this location,

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46th Street east of 3rd Avenue,

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two people were shot
numerous times.

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The only thing we can ascertain
at this time

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was that it was three males
wearing trench coats.

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Tentative identification is that
it's Paul Castellano and Tom Bilotti.

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Castellano was, until
two hours ago,

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the head of the largest
organized crime family

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in the United States of America.

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He's gone now.

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DETECTIVE: There is a prevailing
wisdom that says

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professional hitmen
don't get caught.

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That's simply not true.

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SAMMY: I lowered the window,
and I looked at Tommy.

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He was laying in the street
in a huge puddle of blood.

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I couldn't see Paul.

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I told him Tommy was gone,
and we took off.

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This is what the mob does.
This is what we do.

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This is how we live.

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This is the true side
of the mafia.

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This isn't somebody talking
about the mafia.

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I am part of it.

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DIANE: Did you say, "What
have I become?

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With that blood on my
hands, what am I?"

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I'm a gangster.

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I mean, as far as being a hitman,
I actually was good at it.

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I got the job done.
I shot him in the head. Twice.

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And uh... this is
part of the life.

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I knew my father was a gangster.

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I knew my father was involved
in Paul Castellano's murder.

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NARRATOR: (from "Wiseguy") "Murder was
the only way everybody stayed in line.

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It was the ultimate weapon.

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Nobody was immune.

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You got out of line,
you got whacked.

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Everybody knew the rules,
but still, people got out of line,

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and people still kept
getting whacked."

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SAMMY: New York in the '70s
and '80s was like the wild west.

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Bodies all over the place.
It was insane.

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The city was completely out of
control. Anarchy prevailed.

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MICHAEL: The mob was going through
a very violent period.

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It was a dangerous time
in the mob's world.

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Sammy the Bull is a
serial murderer.

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He's a psychopath
and a sociopath

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who killed as many people
as Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy combined.

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He's not a serial killer.
He's not Jeffrey Dahmer.

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That's not what he is.
He was a gangster.

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ED: Sammy the Bull was a street thug
who grew up in Bensonhurst.

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He gravitated towards the world
of organized crime as a young boy.

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-DIANE: Italian neighborhood?
-SAMMY: Yeah.

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DIANE: And your father had come over from
Italy.

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SAMMY: Yes.

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-DIANE: Outside Palermo.
-SAMMY: Right.

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DIANE: Old school dad?

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SAMMY: Old school, old thinking.

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Totally legitimate.

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What would your father have
said if he had known

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that you were underboss
of the Gambino family?

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I guess it would have
broke his heart.

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Just like it would break my heart
if my son, or if my nephew,

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or somebody went into the mob,
because I know their destiny.

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In our neighborhoods,
you were a fireman, a cop, or a gangster.

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I mean, that's how it went.

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When we walked down the block,
it was almost like that movie Goodfellas.

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There was all guys out there
with suits or sport jackets,

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and hanging out,
and shooting dice in the street.

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It was a very protected
neighborhood,

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and I think a big part of that
is the mob culture,

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because they kind of
protect their own.

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Everybody knew
everybody's business, but yet,

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looked the other way
when they had to.

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Nobody knows nothing.

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We got window shades on our eyes,
cotton balls in our ears,

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a zipper on our mouth.

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So they were growing up in a
neighborhood that's basically a campus

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for future gangsters.

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KAREN: My father could have been
anything, but he chose the street life.

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Because that's what he's seen,
that was what was in his community,

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that's what was looked up to.

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You had no other choice.

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You either got tough,
or you fell to the wayside.

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And that was it.

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Growing up in the streets,
you know,

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there were guys,
they were fighting all the time.

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It's the neighborhood.
It's how you grow up.

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It was just the allure of being,
you know, being bad.

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DIANE: And who were you?

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How did you introduce yourself,
by the way?

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Was it Sammy the Bull?

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Not Sammy the Bull.

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Sammy the Bull was a nickname
that's made up by other people.

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It started when I was
a kid, actually.

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A few kids robbed my bike.

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And I start fighting like crazy
to get it back.

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And across the street there
was our local mob,

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mafia hangout, they broke it up.

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And one of the guys, he said,

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"What are you crying about?
You won the fight."

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He says, "Look at him,
he's like a little bull.

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Sammy the Bull."

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And it stuck all my life.

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They would give you a nickname
at an early age,

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and now, you felt it was incumbent
upon you to earn that nickname.

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Instead of realizing,
that is nonsense.

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NARRATOR: (from "Wiseguy")
"The men at the cabstand were not like

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anybody else from
the neighborhood.

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They wore silk suits
in the morning.

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They flashed wads of $20 bills
as round as softballs.

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And they sported diamond pinky rings
the size of walnuts.

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The sight of all that wealth, and
power, and girth was intoxicating."

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The people that get recruited
are typically young men.

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They like the cars. They like the
girls. They like the money.

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KAREN: You know, I mean, I probably
grew up seeing everybody in my life

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having at least, you know,
$5,000, $6,000 cash on them.

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That was, like,
the thing back in the day, right?

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DIANE: What was their presence
in the neighborhood?

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Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, was saturated
with the mafia.

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Every club, every bar,
every place you went.

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Probably every family
had a social club.

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The Genoveses had a social club,
the Colombos, everybody had a social club.

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So my father, he started taking me
to all these social clubs

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to introduce me to them,
to tell them,

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"This is my son, so, if you see him,
look out for him," and all that.

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And I was about 13.

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The March of the
Wooden Soldiers,

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the March of the future gavones
who want to be made men,

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and will do anything.
"Oh, we'll break into cars.

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We'll boost products."

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And they started out by just
being errand boys.

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"Hey, give me a cup
of coffee, kid.

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Get me the Daily News."

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And then, all of a sudden,
he'd spot him with a five,

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an Abraham Lincoln,
"Hey, you want the change?"

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"Nah, kid, you did a good job."

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But they'd start greasing 'em.
It's all about money.

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It's all about money.

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TOMMY: Back then,
gangs were big.

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You know, all ethnicities
had gangs.

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Neighborhoods had gangs.

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Sammy was in a group
called the Rampers.

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I was doing loan sharking,
stealing cars, doing burglaries.

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Break an arm here,
break a leg there.

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He had all the attributes
of being a gangster.

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KAREN: Did he have options
not to join the mob?

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Absolutely.

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But once you go in,
it's all in or nothing.

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And when I did finally go
into the mob, it was for money.

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It was for greed. It was for women.
It was for fast cars.

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It was being part of a society,
part of a brotherhood.

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He believed in it so deeply,
you know, with everything inside of him.

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He became loyal to Cosa Nostra,
and that was his life.

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And that's who he was,
that's what he became.

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He worked his way up.

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He was a-- He became a made member
of the Gambino crime family.

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DIANE: 1970.

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You're what, 24, 25 years old?

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Yeah.

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They tell you to kill someone.
Did you think of saying no?

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No. Not at all.

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Yeah, but this is murder.

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SAMMY: It's going to be murder.

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I mean, everybody in this life,
at one point or another,

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does work, murders.

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This is part of the life.

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NARRATOR: (from "Wiseguy") "Life was lived
without a safety net.

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They wanted money.
They wanted power.

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And they were willing to do anything
necessary to achieve their ends.

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By birth, certainly, they were not
prepared in any way

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to achieve their desires.

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They were not the smartest kids
in the neighborhood.

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They weren't even the toughest.

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00:10:02,602 --> 00:10:05,805
In fact, they lacked almost all
the necessary talents

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that may have helped them satisfy
the appetites of their dreams.

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Except one: their talent
for violence."

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My name is Anthony
Ruggiano, Junior.

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I'm the son of Anthony "Fat Anthony"
Ruggiano,

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who became a made member
of the American mafia in 1953.

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In the mob they call
murder, work.

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My father used to tell me
he did a piece of work.

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I knew he'd committed
a homicide.

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So work was the key word.

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Work just meant murder.

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That's my father, Fat Anthony,
with a drink in his hand.

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He always had a drink
in his hand.

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My father would give you the shirt
off his back,

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and then hit you on the head with an axe,
and go home and eat dinner.

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DIANE: 1970. You're
24, 25 years old.

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00:10:46,045 --> 00:10:46,946
Yeah.

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DIANE: They tell you to kill someone.
Did you think of saying no?

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00:10:49,749 --> 00:10:50,616
No.

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I knew sooner or later
that question would come.

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Joe Colucci was a friend
of my father's.

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He was also my father's
first murder.

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DIANE: What did you
do in this case?

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SAMMY: We were all out
drinking together.

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00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:02,595
And on the way home,

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(sighs) I got in the
back of the car.

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I shot him in the head.

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Twice.

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It sounded like a cannon
that went off.

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I felt a feeling of everything going
into like a slow motion.

237
00:11:25,985 --> 00:11:27,086
And I hit him again.

238
00:11:28,554 --> 00:11:31,791
And then, his body shook,
and he slumped down a little bit.

239
00:11:32,058 --> 00:11:35,227
It was like there was nothing
outside this car.

240
00:11:36,028 --> 00:11:41,367
There was no people. There was no road.
Nothing but me and him.

241
00:11:42,168 --> 00:11:47,173
I took him to Far Rockaway,
where we threw his body out of the car,

242
00:11:47,239 --> 00:11:49,275
and I shot him three more times
in the back.

243
00:11:49,575 --> 00:11:52,845
I remember something that surprised me
that I had no remorse at all.

244
00:11:53,446 --> 00:11:56,749
It is horrible, and it is hideous,
and there is hurt,

245
00:11:56,816 --> 00:11:58,684
and there is pain,
because I feel it.

246
00:11:59,318 --> 00:12:00,886
But these men were gangsters.

247
00:12:00,953 --> 00:12:02,922
And each and every person
that chose that world

248
00:12:02,988 --> 00:12:04,290
knew what they were
getting into.

249
00:12:04,690 --> 00:12:09,462
SAMMY: After that murder,
they congratulated me on a job well done.

250
00:12:09,862 --> 00:12:11,964
And then, at that point,
I guess, my life changed.

251
00:12:12,031 --> 00:12:17,403
I would go to the same club,
and got on line, and before you know it,

252
00:12:17,470 --> 00:12:19,138
the bouncers, the
owners came out,

253
00:12:19,205 --> 00:12:20,940
"Sammy, no, no,
you don't have to wait on line.

254
00:12:21,006 --> 00:12:22,308
You just come right in."

255
00:12:23,309 --> 00:12:24,944
And everything started
to change.

256
00:12:25,010 --> 00:12:27,313
KAREN: I could see that my father
was very powerful,

257
00:12:27,379 --> 00:12:31,050
because the way people respected him,
the handshake, the kiss on the cheek.

258
00:12:31,317 --> 00:12:34,353
Everybody knew who Sammy was.

259
00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:38,290
You got to the front of the line.
Even in Manhattan, Studio 54.

260
00:12:38,357 --> 00:12:41,026
CURTIS: It was the disco era,
the silver ball, all of that.

261
00:12:41,093 --> 00:12:42,795
You got to the club, naturally,
you drink,

262
00:12:42,862 --> 00:12:45,164
you do a few lines of cocaine
in the bathroom,

263
00:12:45,231 --> 00:12:48,033
and now you're feeling
like a million bucks.

264
00:12:48,267 --> 00:12:49,769
ANTHONY: I used to
go to the Copa.

265
00:12:49,835 --> 00:12:51,937
Just like in Goodfellas,
in the movie.

266
00:12:52,004 --> 00:12:54,840
I used to go in through the basement,
up through the kitchen.

267
00:12:57,009 --> 00:12:58,043
What do you do?

268
00:12:58,811 --> 00:13:00,513
-What?
-What do you do?

269
00:13:00,579 --> 00:13:01,647
I'm in construction.

270
00:13:01,947 --> 00:13:05,017
ANTHONY: And they panned the people
in the Bamboo Lounge.

271
00:13:05,084 --> 00:13:07,686
HENRY HILL (In Goodfellas): And then there
was Mo Black's brother, Fat Andy.

272
00:13:07,753 --> 00:13:08,654
How you doin'?

273
00:13:08,721 --> 00:13:09,588
And they were naming the names.

274
00:13:09,655 --> 00:13:12,958
And then they said Fat Andy,
and all my friends at the same time said,

275
00:13:13,025 --> 00:13:15,427
"That's your father?"
And I said, "Oh! (bleep)"

276
00:13:15,494 --> 00:13:18,998
That was like my life.
That was like my life, that movie.

277
00:13:19,064 --> 00:13:22,902
You know, sitting in the front,
and how everything was given to us,

278
00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:24,203
and the whole lifestyle.

279
00:13:24,270 --> 00:13:26,605
Goodfellas was more real life,

280
00:13:26,939 --> 00:13:29,942
especially talking about the effect
that cocaine had.

281
00:13:30,476 --> 00:13:31,510
White powder.

282
00:13:31,577 --> 00:13:33,145
ANTHONY: Everybody
was doing coke.

283
00:13:33,212 --> 00:13:36,582
The money's pouring in,
and you're hanging out with these people.

284
00:13:36,649 --> 00:13:37,583
David Bowie.

285
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:40,452
My uncle Junior starts telling
David Bowie dirty jokes.

286
00:13:40,519 --> 00:13:41,620
He's hysterical laughing.

287
00:13:41,687 --> 00:13:43,522
I'm there until 4:00 in the morning
with them.

288
00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:45,224
And that was my life.

289
00:13:45,624 --> 00:13:47,560
And, you know, you just think
it's never going to end.

290
00:13:50,162 --> 00:13:53,666
The mafia, which was
originally called mafioso,

291
00:13:53,732 --> 00:13:58,704
was started in the Middle Ages
as a secret society in Sicily.

292
00:13:58,771 --> 00:14:01,507
And it was to combat the
foreign invaders.

293
00:14:01,574 --> 00:14:05,511
ANGEL: The Sicilian Mafia,
they believed that

294
00:14:06,345 --> 00:14:09,381
this is how you had to
live Cosa Nostra.

295
00:14:09,448 --> 00:14:11,550
Cosa Nostra is this
thing of ours.

296
00:14:11,617 --> 00:14:15,087
The way it was explained to me,
was in Italy,

297
00:14:15,154 --> 00:14:16,922
communities protected their own.

298
00:14:16,989 --> 00:14:18,924
So it was like, this
is ours. We protect.

299
00:14:18,991 --> 00:14:22,461
When we take that oath,
we are told straight out,

300
00:14:22,528 --> 00:14:26,432
Cosa Nostra comes before anything
in your life, anything.

301
00:14:26,866 --> 00:14:31,136
They tell you, if your son is dying
in bed with cancer,

302
00:14:31,203 --> 00:14:35,207
and he's only got an hour left to live,
if we call for you,

303
00:14:35,274 --> 00:14:37,109
you come immediately
and leave his side.

304
00:14:37,176 --> 00:14:38,944
You don't go with
anybody's wife.

305
00:14:39,011 --> 00:14:40,446
Don't rat. That's the big one.

306
00:14:40,646 --> 00:14:42,081
Don't cooperate with
the government.

307
00:14:42,147 --> 00:14:44,650
There's also no drug dealing.

308
00:14:44,717 --> 00:14:46,318
Because it held a stiff sentence

309
00:14:46,385 --> 00:14:48,854
it could possibly put you
in a position to cooperate.

310
00:14:48,921 --> 00:14:52,424
Many of them consider what they do
almost military in nature.

311
00:14:52,491 --> 00:14:53,893
They consider themselves
soldiers.

312
00:14:53,959 --> 00:14:58,097
So they believe when your boss
tells you you have to kill somebody,

313
00:14:58,163 --> 00:14:59,765
they feel they're doing
the right thing.

314
00:14:59,832 --> 00:15:02,501
That being the case,
they get to rationalize

315
00:15:02,568 --> 00:15:04,203
a lot of really bad behavior.

316
00:15:04,270 --> 00:15:07,573
You wouldn't think of calling a soldier
in war a murderer,

317
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,409
so therefore, if they're a soldier,
and they're at war,

318
00:15:10,476 --> 00:15:11,543
they're not murderers, either.

319
00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:13,345
They're doing this as
part of their job.

320
00:15:15,881 --> 00:15:22,154
My father said, "When I took my oath
to Cosa Nostra, I gave up everything."

321
00:15:22,221 --> 00:15:24,623
SAMMY: At the ceremony,
it was 14 guys.

322
00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:27,159
And one by one,
they called us down the basement.

323
00:15:27,226 --> 00:15:29,895
Dim lights. Real smoky.

324
00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:37,336
And when I walked down,
there was Paul Castellano.

325
00:15:37,403 --> 00:15:41,674
And Paul asked me, "Do you know that we're
a brotherhood?

326
00:15:42,908 --> 00:15:44,343
A secret society?"

327
00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:46,512
He says, "Would you want to
belong to this?"

328
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:48,881
I said yes.

329
00:15:48,948 --> 00:15:51,817
He says, "If we ask you to kill
for us, would you?"

330
00:15:53,018 --> 00:15:54,019
I said yes.

331
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,922
And he asked me, "What finger
would you pull the trigger?"

332
00:15:57,523 --> 00:16:00,492
And I pointed to
my index finger.

333
00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:03,195
There was a picture of a saint
on the table.

334
00:16:03,262 --> 00:16:06,198
They pricked my finger
to get blood out of it.

335
00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:07,566
Put the blood on the saint.

336
00:16:07,633 --> 00:16:09,268
They put it in my hand,
and then they lit it.

337
00:16:09,601 --> 00:16:13,238
And just said,
"If you betray this brotherhood,

338
00:16:14,573 --> 00:16:17,242
may your soul burn
like this saint."

339
00:16:17,676 --> 00:16:20,512
I really believed in it,
with my heart and soul.

340
00:16:20,579 --> 00:16:25,250
And if you listen to the oath,
there's honor, there's respect,

341
00:16:25,918 --> 00:16:27,686
there's integrity,
there's loyalty.

342
00:16:27,953 --> 00:16:30,289
There's a brotherhood,
there's a secret society.

343
00:16:31,924 --> 00:16:32,992
Uh...

344
00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:35,961
And these are words that
I wanted to hear.

345
00:16:36,929 --> 00:16:38,764
And that I was totally loyal to.

346
00:16:39,565 --> 00:16:41,667
But unfortunately, none
of it is true.

347
00:16:44,136 --> 00:16:46,338
DETECTIVE: Paul Castellano was,
until two hours ago,

348
00:16:46,405 --> 00:16:48,040
the head of the largest organized
crime family

349
00:16:48,107 --> 00:16:49,241
in the United States of America.

350
00:16:58,350 --> 00:17:03,989
LINDA: New York in the '80s and '90s
was a very, very interesting place.

351
00:17:04,056 --> 00:17:07,826
Because, you know, New York was full
of great New York characters then.

352
00:17:08,127 --> 00:17:11,530
People that would make the headlines
day after day.

353
00:17:11,597 --> 00:17:14,700
I didn't think that somebody
like Trump would turn out

354
00:17:14,767 --> 00:17:16,702
to be the president of
the United States,

355
00:17:16,769 --> 00:17:22,207
nor did I think that John Gotti would rise
to become such a prominent celebrity.

356
00:17:22,574 --> 00:17:25,878
But they did, because New York
loves a character.

357
00:17:26,211 --> 00:17:30,215
My father was one of 13 children
from the Bronx.

358
00:17:30,883 --> 00:17:33,786
They moved to east New York,
Brooklyn, where he set up his roots.

359
00:17:34,553 --> 00:17:35,421
Dirt poor.

360
00:17:35,487 --> 00:17:38,023
My father and his siblings
always had to fight their way

361
00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:39,491
to get anything in life.

362
00:17:40,159 --> 00:17:44,263
They had nothing and he strived
for great things.

363
00:17:44,329 --> 00:17:46,031
He strived to be something more.

364
00:17:46,098 --> 00:17:48,133
John, you either loved
him or hated him.

365
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,469
He was that kind of
a lightning rod.

366
00:17:50,536 --> 00:17:54,106
The thing I find most interesting
about John Gotti as a character

367
00:17:54,173 --> 00:17:57,109
is that he is a pure gangster.

368
00:17:57,976 --> 00:17:59,344
He strikes me as the type of guy

369
00:17:59,411 --> 00:18:01,747
that there is nothing else he
ever wanted to be.

370
00:18:02,081 --> 00:18:05,417
When he decided to become a gangster,
he went all the way.

371
00:18:06,051 --> 00:18:08,987
It's almost as if, like, a kid
wants to grow up to be president.

372
00:18:09,855 --> 00:18:12,391
REPORTER: Of course, there were fireworks
in Ozone Park tonight.

373
00:18:12,458 --> 00:18:15,127
Lots of them.
In the air and on the ground.

374
00:18:15,527 --> 00:18:18,297
TERENCE: In Ozone Park,
you know, which was in Queens

375
00:18:18,363 --> 00:18:22,568
or right over the Brooklyn/Queens border
where John Gotti lived, he was a hero.

376
00:18:22,634 --> 00:18:25,838
CURTIS: On top of the roofs,
they had crates of firecrackers,

377
00:18:25,904 --> 00:18:27,339
cherry bombs, M-80s.

378
00:18:27,406 --> 00:18:31,143
And they put on a celebration
that almost equaled Macy's.

379
00:18:31,210 --> 00:18:33,612
And everybody's, "Oh,
what a great guy."

380
00:18:33,679 --> 00:18:37,382
REPORTER: Your "Thanks, John" hat on.
"Thanks, John," who?

381
00:18:37,716 --> 00:18:39,184
-Gotti. Who else?
-REPORTER: For what?

382
00:18:39,918 --> 00:18:41,520
For having this big party.

383
00:18:41,587 --> 00:18:43,589
REPORTER: Yeah? Do you know anything
about John Gotti?

384
00:18:43,655 --> 00:18:46,291
No. If I did, I wouldn't
say anyway.

385
00:18:46,692 --> 00:18:50,262
I think he developed this rep
as a Robin Hood,

386
00:18:50,329 --> 00:18:52,164
and a glamorous Robin Hood.

387
00:18:52,598 --> 00:18:53,732
He wasn't living in the forest.

388
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,769
He was wearing, you know, $1,000 suits
and getting his hair blown out every day.

389
00:18:57,836 --> 00:19:00,639
And the media fed the beast.

390
00:19:05,077 --> 00:19:07,045
He was a stone-cold killer.

391
00:19:07,546 --> 00:19:11,984
And he attracted men who
themselves had a lust for blood.

392
00:19:12,184 --> 00:19:15,354
This guy would have you whacked
because you showed up late

393
00:19:15,420 --> 00:19:19,591
for a meeting at the Bergin Hunt,
Fish, and Shoot Human Beings Club.

394
00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:21,527
DIANE: Do you remember the first time
you met John Gotti?

395
00:19:21,793 --> 00:19:25,864
SAMMY: I was in an after-hour
club which had gambling and stuff.

396
00:19:25,931 --> 00:19:30,068
He seemed smart. He seemed nervy.
He was a tough guy in the street.

397
00:19:31,003 --> 00:19:32,137
Yeah. He impressed
me a little bit.

398
00:19:32,204 --> 00:19:34,506
He knew how to take a punch.
He knew how to give a punch.

399
00:19:34,573 --> 00:19:37,609
He wasn't afraid of the cops.
He wasn't afraid of anybody.

400
00:19:37,676 --> 00:19:39,278
GEORGE: He was a mobster's
mobster.

401
00:19:39,344 --> 00:19:42,548
There was no other career that
John Gotti was going to pursue,

402
00:19:42,614 --> 00:19:43,949
and the same could
be said for Sammy.

403
00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:47,052
I think that they were both
very dangerous men.

404
00:19:47,319 --> 00:19:48,820
I think they were both
very tough men.

405
00:19:48,887 --> 00:19:52,357
GEORGE: Sammy's got a strong reputation,
known to be reliable,

406
00:19:52,424 --> 00:19:53,425
to get things done.

407
00:19:53,492 --> 00:19:58,397
He was a professional killer,
and he caught the eye of John Gotti

408
00:19:58,463 --> 00:20:00,499
right around the same time Gotti
was rising up

409
00:20:00,566 --> 00:20:02,267
and assassinated
Paul Castellano,

410
00:20:02,334 --> 00:20:04,369
who had been the boss
of the Gambino family.

411
00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:07,606
SAMMY: Paul Castellano
wasn't a gangster.

412
00:20:07,673 --> 00:20:10,742
He was a racketeer.
Brilliant man.

413
00:20:10,809 --> 00:20:13,779
He used to sit in that house
in Staten Island

414
00:20:13,845 --> 00:20:16,615
-reading The WSJ and The Times.
-DIANE: Big house.

415
00:20:17,082 --> 00:20:19,451
ANTHONY: You know, John Gotti, Sammy,
they were street guys.

416
00:20:19,518 --> 00:20:22,421
So they were a different breed than him.
He wasn't a gangster.

417
00:20:22,487 --> 00:20:25,591
JOHN M.: Gotti didn't like the way the
family was being run by Castellano.

418
00:20:25,657 --> 00:20:28,360
And he also thought, if
you kill the boss,

419
00:20:29,061 --> 00:20:32,397
you could take over the family,
and then, you could be the boss.

420
00:20:32,598 --> 00:20:35,067
LARRY: When Paul got hit,
it was such a shock

421
00:20:36,168 --> 00:20:38,470
to people that are in
the inner circle.

422
00:20:39,972 --> 00:20:41,039
Taboo.

423
00:20:41,106 --> 00:20:43,242
A boss was just gunned down
in the middle of the street.

424
00:20:43,308 --> 00:20:46,144
I think the Castellano hit,
for me, was the first time I realized

425
00:20:46,211 --> 00:20:48,714
how dangerous my father's life was
outside the home.

426
00:20:48,780 --> 00:20:52,417
GEORGE: There's an organization
within the mob that manages all

427
00:20:52,484 --> 00:20:53,885
of the mob families
in the country.

428
00:20:53,952 --> 00:20:55,787
And it was known as
"The Commission."

429
00:20:56,054 --> 00:20:57,589
And the five bosses

430
00:20:57,656 --> 00:21:00,626
of the New York families sit
on The Commission.

431
00:21:00,692 --> 00:21:04,463
So you'd need the approval
of all five, you know, bosses,

432
00:21:04,529 --> 00:21:06,498
would have to agree
on something like that.

433
00:21:06,565 --> 00:21:08,433
So they say, "We go
to The Commission."

434
00:21:08,867 --> 00:21:11,470
They all sit down.
They take a vote.

435
00:21:11,803 --> 00:21:15,874
And then, even if they say no to me,
I put my tail between my legs,

436
00:21:15,941 --> 00:21:18,977
and I accept it because
it's the dons.

437
00:21:19,311 --> 00:21:21,046
Such nonsense.

438
00:21:21,113 --> 00:21:23,415
Gotti sent his right-hand
man, Angelo.

439
00:21:23,482 --> 00:21:26,418
He says, "Sammy", he says,
"We're going to take out Paul."

440
00:21:26,685 --> 00:21:31,423
We sent word to John that we were
not only going to permit it to happen,

441
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:34,326
but we were going to join it.
We were taking Paul down.

442
00:21:34,393 --> 00:21:36,962
ANTHONY: So John Gotti,
he didn't have permission to do that,

443
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:40,699
but he did it anyway, because he knew,
the bottom line was nobody liked Paul.

444
00:21:40,766 --> 00:21:47,172
TOMMY: So they form a crew together that's
going to set up the meeting at Sparks.

445
00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:51,810
SAMMY: The next day when we met,
they were told, "Don't back off.

446
00:21:52,511 --> 00:21:56,014
Don't run, even if there's cops.
Kill them.

447
00:21:56,915 --> 00:21:59,051
And if you-- if it means you
have to die there,

448
00:21:59,117 --> 00:22:01,920
then die there with them.
Do not back off of this hit."

449
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:04,823
There were four shooters that
actually pulled the trigger.

450
00:22:04,890 --> 00:22:07,859
There were three more backup shooters
out on the street.

451
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:12,497
I got this little map in front of me
of Sparks Steak House and the hit.

452
00:22:13,832 --> 00:22:16,601
I planned this hit, now I'm going to
tell you how it came down.

453
00:22:16,668 --> 00:22:20,906
Outside of Sparks Steak House,
there's two shooters.

454
00:22:21,239 --> 00:22:24,509
They're ready. There's a shooter here.
Shooter here.

455
00:22:26,278 --> 00:22:29,014
A shooter here. A shooter here.

456
00:22:29,348 --> 00:22:33,819
The hit guys were all dressed
in, like, a white, short trench coat

457
00:22:34,219 --> 00:22:35,821
and black Russian hats.

458
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:40,926
TOMMY: It was December
16th, 1985.

459
00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:46,832
LINDA: That's when everything
changed. In 1985.

460
00:22:49,701 --> 00:22:53,105
SAMMY: Me and John Gotti
are parked in the car right here

461
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,875
waiting for them to show up.

462
00:22:58,643 --> 00:23:02,481
This car pulls up
right next to me.

463
00:23:02,547 --> 00:23:03,615
It was a Lincoln.

464
00:23:03,682 --> 00:23:07,085
And... I turned around
to my right.

465
00:23:07,152 --> 00:23:10,355
The dome light was on, the tinted windows,
and Paul was in there.

466
00:23:10,422 --> 00:23:12,958
I leaned down in my chair,
and I told John,

467
00:23:13,024 --> 00:23:15,427
I said, "John, they're
right next to us."

468
00:23:16,628 --> 00:23:21,800
I pulled out the-- my gun,
and I told John,

469
00:23:21,867 --> 00:23:23,935
"If he turns in our direction,
I'm going to start shooting,

470
00:23:24,002 --> 00:23:24,836
right here and now."

471
00:23:26,204 --> 00:23:30,442
They never turned. The light changed.
They pulled in front of Sparks.

472
00:23:30,742 --> 00:23:34,679
They parked the car.
As soon as Paul opened up the door--

473
00:23:34,746 --> 00:23:37,849
These two shooters
take out Paul Castellano.

474
00:23:40,218 --> 00:23:42,053
Tommy Bilotti gets
out of the car.

475
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,222
These two shooters
converge on him.

476
00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:48,326
We pulled next to them.
I put the window down slightly.

477
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:51,930
I looked at Tommy-- he was
stretched out in a huge puddle of blood.

478
00:23:52,531 --> 00:23:54,065
I told John, "He's gone."

479
00:23:54,132 --> 00:23:59,070
And even before we got back to my office,
it was on the news.

480
00:23:59,137 --> 00:24:02,007
After the shooting,
the three gunmen ran that way

481
00:24:02,073 --> 00:24:04,676
towards second avenue
and a waiting car.

482
00:24:04,743 --> 00:24:08,747
Police say that Paul Castellano, the
reputed head of the Gambino crime family,

483
00:24:08,814 --> 00:24:11,116
and another man were
shot and killed.

484
00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:13,652
TOMMY: John Gotti committed
the cardinal sin.

485
00:24:13,718 --> 00:24:16,621
He killed the boss
without a Commission ruling.

486
00:24:16,688 --> 00:24:19,224
That's like an earthquake
in the world of the mob.

487
00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:22,160
Who did it? Why? Who
authorized it?

488
00:24:22,227 --> 00:24:25,530
Was it not authorized?
And then, who will pay for it?

489
00:24:25,931 --> 00:24:30,702
My mind was going over what happened,
what was about to come.

490
00:24:31,002 --> 00:24:33,672
We knew when we did this,
we were at war.

491
00:24:33,939 --> 00:24:37,209
We shook the mafia.
We shook the state of New York.

492
00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:39,110
We shook the whole world.

493
00:24:46,451 --> 00:24:48,053
REPORTER: They said it was
for family only.

494
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,689
The wake tonight for
big Paul Castellano.

495
00:24:50,755 --> 00:24:54,392
REPORTER 2: Gotti allegedly wanted
to show his respects by coming here,

496
00:24:54,459 --> 00:24:58,697
but instead, preferred to stay away,
because of all the undercover cops

497
00:24:58,763 --> 00:25:02,968
in the area who would like to talk to him
about the murder of Paul Castellano.

498
00:25:03,034 --> 00:25:06,505
TOMMY: Before the killing
of Paul Castellano in 1985, I mean,

499
00:25:06,571 --> 00:25:09,207
no one in New York City
knew who John Gotti was.

500
00:25:09,274 --> 00:25:13,144
ANTHONY: John Gotti takes the throne
when they kill Paul Castellano.

501
00:25:13,411 --> 00:25:15,180
TOMMY: Eight days later,
on Christmas Eve,

502
00:25:15,247 --> 00:25:18,517
more than 200 wise guys
or would-be wise guys,

503
00:25:18,583 --> 00:25:21,853
showed up to pay homage to John Gotti
at the Ravenite Social Club.

504
00:25:22,587 --> 00:25:24,356
And that was the end
of Paul Castellano

505
00:25:24,422 --> 00:25:28,460
and the beginning of John Gotti's reign
as boss of the Gambino crime family.

506
00:25:30,495 --> 00:25:33,498
John Gotti was the poster child
for organized crime.

507
00:25:33,798 --> 00:25:34,966
He put his face out there.

508
00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:39,371
He drew people into a world
that you only seen in movies.

509
00:25:39,971 --> 00:25:41,773
It was as if you called
central casting

510
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,311
and said, "Send me a mob boss.
I want the modern version of Capone."

511
00:25:46,378 --> 00:25:51,349
He was flashy, and he was always
well-groomed, and he like, sported around.

512
00:25:51,416 --> 00:25:56,321
And it was like everything that
we learned in The Godfather

513
00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:59,424
that a mafia guy would never do.

514
00:25:59,491 --> 00:26:00,792
I want reliable people,

515
00:26:00,859 --> 00:26:02,527
people that aren't going to
be carried away.

516
00:26:02,594 --> 00:26:07,032
My father was probably the most
charismatic, intelligent,

517
00:26:07,098 --> 00:26:10,302
handsome tough guy that
you'll ever come across in your life.

518
00:26:10,535 --> 00:26:13,538
KAREN: You see him on TV,
and he just has this swagger about him.

519
00:26:13,972 --> 00:26:16,741
He almost commanded respect.

520
00:26:16,808 --> 00:26:18,877
JOHN JR: He was, he
was over the top.

521
00:26:18,944 --> 00:26:22,113
LINDA: And he was taking full
advantage of his celebrity.

522
00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:26,451
MICHAEL: He was dapper.
He looked the part.

523
00:26:26,518 --> 00:26:28,720
I mean, if you wanted to hold
the mob up and say,

524
00:26:28,787 --> 00:26:32,090
"Hey, this is what we look like,"
you'd hold up John Gotti.

525
00:26:33,124 --> 00:26:36,695
I think his problem was that
he fell in love with himself.

526
00:26:36,928 --> 00:26:39,631
He saw himself on television,
in the newspapers,

527
00:26:39,998 --> 00:26:45,837
and he lost touch with what he was,
that he's a gangster, not an actor.

528
00:26:45,904 --> 00:26:48,907
At one point I know back
in New York City,

529
00:26:48,974 --> 00:26:51,209
John Gotti was posing for pictures
with tourists.

530
00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:55,246
He said, "This is my
public. My public."

531
00:26:57,482 --> 00:27:02,520
From my teaching and my understanding
of Cosa Nostra, it's a secret society.

532
00:27:03,388 --> 00:27:04,656
We have no public.

533
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:08,093
DIANE: What about his life,
the way he lived?

534
00:27:09,294 --> 00:27:11,997
SAMMY: He used to leave his house
about 11:00, 12:00 in the afternoon.

535
00:27:12,063 --> 00:27:13,198
REPORTER: Good morning,
Mr. Gotti.

536
00:27:13,264 --> 00:27:16,334
SAMMY: He had somebody picking
out his shirt and his tie and his shoes.

537
00:27:16,868 --> 00:27:18,803
He used to have a barber come
every single day

538
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:19,838
and give him a haircut.

539
00:27:19,904 --> 00:27:21,306
You guys and Giuliani
should be in church.

540
00:27:21,373 --> 00:27:24,075
SAMMY: ...and cut the hairs
in his nose.

541
00:27:24,142 --> 00:27:30,048
It was a performance for the media,
or people who were going to see him.

542
00:27:30,115 --> 00:27:32,517
GEORGE: So John Gotti was a guy,
when he was done with his business,

543
00:27:32,584 --> 00:27:34,919
he'd go out gallivanting
all night long

544
00:27:34,986 --> 00:27:38,590
into the early hours
of every night during the week.

545
00:27:38,957 --> 00:27:41,393
Sammy Gravano's going back home
to his family.

546
00:27:41,459 --> 00:27:43,128
The personalities
were a little bit different.

547
00:27:44,029 --> 00:27:50,835
John's first care was the Gambino family,
not the John Gotti personal family.

548
00:27:50,902 --> 00:27:52,103
Sammy kind of split it.

549
00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:55,473
He was very, very loyal
to the Gambino family,

550
00:27:56,341 --> 00:27:59,944
but his personal family
was equally important to him.

551
00:28:00,612 --> 00:28:02,347
SAMMY: This is me and my wife.

552
00:28:02,714 --> 00:28:09,387
And here's a picture of me, my wife,
and my son on our farm.

553
00:28:09,454 --> 00:28:10,955
This farm was gorgeous.

554
00:28:11,022 --> 00:28:14,859
This was something that I literally
got away from the mob

555
00:28:14,926 --> 00:28:17,929
and went to this farm
and chilled out with my family.

556
00:28:17,996 --> 00:28:22,333
It was like really living, uh...
two lives.

557
00:28:22,934 --> 00:28:27,338
About a year or after we
were married, we had my daughter, Karen.

558
00:28:27,906 --> 00:28:31,543
A couple of years after that,
we had my son, Gerard.

559
00:28:31,609 --> 00:28:35,213
I knew my father was respected,
and a lot of people looked up to him

560
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,918
but he never came home and spoke about
what he used to do on the streets.

561
00:28:39,984 --> 00:28:42,654
Growing up, all my memories
were great.

562
00:28:42,721 --> 00:28:43,955
I had a great life.

563
00:28:44,656 --> 00:28:46,858
You know, I grew up very
family oriented.

564
00:28:46,925 --> 00:28:49,194
There was parties.
There was a lot of family around me.

565
00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:52,063
GERARD: Growing up, I feel like he was
home most of the times,

566
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:53,665
5:00, 6:00 for dinner.

567
00:28:53,732 --> 00:28:57,936
We'd all sit down. Dinner would be ready.
My mother was there. My sister was there.

568
00:28:58,002 --> 00:29:00,972
It was really just a
normal life for me.

569
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:04,743
KAREN: I'd never seen
the Sammy the Bull that the world knows.

570
00:29:04,809 --> 00:29:09,114
I'd never seen the dangerous side or,
you know, him being so powerful.

571
00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:10,181
To me, he was my father.

572
00:29:10,248 --> 00:29:17,255
I think I'm two people sometimes.
I live a family life, and I'm a gangster.

573
00:29:18,056 --> 00:29:20,658
KAREN: I know my mother's
experience.

574
00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:24,129
She wanted the white picket fence,
and the house,

575
00:29:24,195 --> 00:29:27,432
and the backyard
with the dogs running around.

576
00:29:27,499 --> 00:29:29,267
But she loved her husband.

577
00:29:29,868 --> 00:29:34,606
And she loved him
for the way he loved us, her kids.

578
00:29:35,507 --> 00:29:38,910
ANGEL: The wives took care of the
family. Okay?

579
00:29:38,977 --> 00:29:42,547
They took care of everything
and anything to do with the home.

580
00:29:43,481 --> 00:29:46,985
Most men were married,
had a wife, family,

581
00:29:47,485 --> 00:29:49,854
and then they also had the
girlfriend, the goumada.

582
00:29:49,921 --> 00:29:51,122
I was a girlfriend.

583
00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:55,527
I had said once, "Where families
are involved, you have to become a liar.

584
00:29:55,593 --> 00:29:56,461
You have to."

585
00:29:56,528 --> 00:29:59,097
ANGEL: They were off doing all this
illegal stuff,

586
00:29:59,164 --> 00:30:03,401
and the wife just thought, you know,
he was just off doing his thing.

587
00:30:03,735 --> 00:30:06,905
KAREN: I think-- I would be a liar
if I said she didn't know.

588
00:30:06,971 --> 00:30:10,809
She just knew not to ask questions,
because his life was so,

589
00:30:11,176 --> 00:30:13,111
you know, separate outside.

590
00:30:13,178 --> 00:30:17,015
He never dumped his lifestyle on us,
so she was able to look away.

591
00:30:17,081 --> 00:30:18,783
Some women close their
eyes to things.

592
00:30:18,850 --> 00:30:20,185
They don't want to hear it.
They don't want to know.

593
00:30:20,251 --> 00:30:24,522
I think a lot of it was,
"Oh, look at this beautiful ring I got.

594
00:30:24,923 --> 00:30:26,291
Oh, I'm getting a fur coat."

595
00:30:26,357 --> 00:30:31,896
And for a lot of people, being wealthy
and having whatever you want

596
00:30:31,963 --> 00:30:35,266
is worth whatever it is
that you don't want to know.

597
00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:40,205
I didn't even realize my father was
in the mafia until probably 1990.

598
00:30:40,271 --> 00:30:41,439
As far as I was concerned,

599
00:30:41,506 --> 00:30:43,708
my father was in
the construction business.

600
00:30:44,008 --> 00:30:46,978
Why would I talk about
what I do with a kid?

601
00:30:48,213 --> 00:30:49,314
I'm doing murders.

602
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:51,182
What am I going to do, come home,
sit down at the table,

603
00:30:51,249 --> 00:30:55,553
"Hey, you know who I killed today?
Joe Blow. You won't see him no more."

604
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,489
(laughs) I mean, I can't
do that. Right?

605
00:30:59,424 --> 00:31:03,695
As my father rose in the mob,
you know, he wanted to try out,

606
00:31:03,761 --> 00:31:05,296
I guess, bigger and
better things.

607
00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:09,467
And he wanted to move to Todt Hill.
He found a beautiful home.

608
00:31:09,534 --> 00:31:12,503
I hated Todt Hill. I
hated living there.

609
00:31:13,271 --> 00:31:16,407
We grew up in Bulls Head,
in Staten Island.

610
00:31:17,375 --> 00:31:19,978
KAREN: Todt Hill was very different
than Bulls Head,

611
00:31:20,979 --> 00:31:25,216
and one of the kids told my brother that
we weren't allowed to come in the house

612
00:31:25,283 --> 00:31:26,584
because of who my father was.

613
00:31:26,951 --> 00:31:30,989
They didn't want my kids playing with
their kids because I was a gangster.

614
00:31:31,823 --> 00:31:36,828
I walked right down the block
to the house, and I rang the bell.

615
00:31:37,462 --> 00:31:39,964
And I said, "Is your husband home?"
"Who are you?"

616
00:31:40,031 --> 00:31:41,266
"I'm Sammy the Bull.

617
00:31:41,866 --> 00:31:46,437
I'm the guy that your (bleep)
kids are not allowed to play with."

618
00:31:47,939 --> 00:31:52,310
A guy came to the door.
"I never said that. I never did that."

619
00:31:53,044 --> 00:31:55,480
"Bro, are you a good
dad to your kids?"

620
00:31:56,014 --> 00:31:59,784
"Yeah, yeah."
"What if they didn't have a dad?

621
00:32:00,685 --> 00:32:03,121
You think this is going to end
good for you?"

622
00:32:03,788 --> 00:32:05,423
He was, I think, petrified.

623
00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:10,194
And it woke me up because I
said, "What the (bleep) are you doing?"

624
00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:12,964
They're legitimate people.

625
00:32:13,031 --> 00:32:14,532
This guy is (bleep)
in his pants right now.

626
00:32:15,967 --> 00:32:17,001
And I left.

627
00:32:17,068 --> 00:32:19,437
KAREN: My father halted construction
on the house.

628
00:32:19,504 --> 00:32:21,706
He sold it and we moved right back
to Bulls Head.

629
00:32:22,273 --> 00:32:24,575
He wanted us to be around people
that we're used to,

630
00:32:24,642 --> 00:32:27,011
that we're you know, we're like them.

631
00:32:27,078 --> 00:32:31,516
Even though I had a lot of friends there,
we were still different in their eyes.

632
00:32:31,582 --> 00:32:32,817
My father was a gangster.

633
00:32:33,084 --> 00:32:34,886
There is a lot of collateral
damage.

634
00:32:36,788 --> 00:32:39,190
You have to live it, and see it,

635
00:32:40,658 --> 00:32:46,030
and maybe take the step
to talk about it.

636
00:32:47,265 --> 00:32:49,734
There's a message.
There's a message.

637
00:32:54,706 --> 00:32:58,009
I forget how big of a deal
John Gotti is to people.

638
00:32:58,409 --> 00:33:01,746
My relationship with him was,
like, you know, he was the boss.

639
00:33:01,813 --> 00:33:04,215
I knew him when he was
just a young guy.

640
00:33:04,282 --> 00:33:06,718
Before you were born,
I would take your brother

641
00:33:06,784 --> 00:33:09,620
to the Bergin Hunt and Fish Club,
and he would jump on John,

642
00:33:09,687 --> 00:33:11,055
and pull his tie and everything.

643
00:33:11,122 --> 00:33:14,125
And John used to laugh and,
you know, because you knew him.

644
00:33:14,592 --> 00:33:17,729
So, you know, people ask me,
"Oh, he was a killer, and he was this,

645
00:33:17,795 --> 00:33:19,497
and he was that."
Yeah, they were all that.

646
00:33:19,564 --> 00:33:24,235
But you know what? They loved me.
And I loved them.

647
00:33:24,969 --> 00:33:28,439
ED: The press was totally fascinated
by Gotti after he took over the family.

648
00:33:28,506 --> 00:33:31,342
So many times, you'd see Gotti
walking down Mulberry Street

649
00:33:31,409 --> 00:33:33,578
to the Ravenite Club,
which was their headquarters.

650
00:33:33,878 --> 00:33:36,047
And Sammy the Bull would be,
invariably, with him.

651
00:33:36,114 --> 00:33:38,883
And John Gotti was so enamored
of Sammy the Bull

652
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:40,151
that he made him his underboss.

653
00:33:40,218 --> 00:33:41,652
Me and John ran the family.

654
00:33:42,053 --> 00:33:44,889
It was me and him against
the world.

655
00:33:45,289 --> 00:33:47,825
So you would go to shake Sammy's hand,
and he would go like this.

656
00:33:49,861 --> 00:33:50,728
And he wouldn't.

657
00:33:50,795 --> 00:33:54,065
Because you had to shake John's hand first
because John was the boss.

658
00:33:54,132 --> 00:33:59,103
You could tell by the body language
that they were very close.

659
00:33:59,170 --> 00:34:01,539
They spoke with their heads
close together.

660
00:34:01,606 --> 00:34:03,508
They whispered to each other.

661
00:34:03,574 --> 00:34:06,177
John Gotti trusted
him implicitly.

662
00:34:06,477 --> 00:34:08,846
John had Sammy to make sure

663
00:34:08,913 --> 00:34:11,649
that what John wanted done
in the family got done.

664
00:34:12,083 --> 00:34:16,521
He would deal with the other families,
and manage or negotiate disputes.

665
00:34:16,921 --> 00:34:19,257
He would oversee the hits
that had to be ordered.

666
00:34:19,323 --> 00:34:22,760
Within the Gambino crime family,
Sammy was looked at as smart

667
00:34:22,827 --> 00:34:25,830
because he had companies,
and legitimate businesses,

668
00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:27,198
and he made money.

669
00:34:28,299 --> 00:34:32,103
ANTHONY: Sammy had all the construction,
state contracts, city contracts.

670
00:34:32,170 --> 00:34:36,441
I mean, they were making money on a scale
like millions upon millions of dollars.

671
00:34:38,342 --> 00:34:42,313
SAMMY: I literally marvel at the
sight of Manhattan when I see it,

672
00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:46,484
because I controlled it.
I literally controlled Manhattan.

673
00:34:46,818 --> 00:34:49,720
When I see it at night, those lights,
and everything about it,

674
00:34:50,054 --> 00:34:52,457
I think of Donald Trump,
and everybody else who couldn't

675
00:34:52,523 --> 00:34:54,358
build a building if I didn't
want them to build it.

676
00:34:55,593 --> 00:34:56,694
That got me off.

677
00:34:57,161 --> 00:34:58,563
Plus I made a lot
of money with it.

678
00:34:58,629 --> 00:35:01,666
I think the most fascinating thing
about Sammy the Bull, to me,

679
00:35:01,732 --> 00:35:05,403
is that if he had not become a gangster,
I think he would have been

680
00:35:05,470 --> 00:35:07,405
an incredibly successful
businessman.

681
00:35:07,472 --> 00:35:09,607
He could spot something
that was making money.

682
00:35:09,674 --> 00:35:12,243
He could spot the vulnerability
where the threat of force,

683
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:15,746
and the hand of the mob could reach
in there and exploit that.

684
00:35:15,813 --> 00:35:18,416
He had a pretty good way
of instilling fear in people.

685
00:35:18,483 --> 00:35:21,486
He has 19 murders chalked up
to his record.

686
00:35:21,552 --> 00:35:24,655
How far did your tentacles reach
in the businesses?

687
00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:28,593
Everything. Everything.
You name it, we did it.

688
00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:30,795
The garment industry,
what you pay for your clothes,

689
00:35:30,862 --> 00:35:32,330
there's a tack on for us.

690
00:35:32,396 --> 00:35:36,100
An extra dollar on a window,
gas a penny a gallon.

691
00:35:36,167 --> 00:35:39,437
I remember hearing $4 put on
for every pair of jeans.

692
00:35:40,037 --> 00:35:41,606
MICHAEL: Garbage,
we controlled it.

693
00:35:42,140 --> 00:35:45,710
Restaurants, bartenders, and
waitresses, we controlled it.

694
00:35:45,776 --> 00:35:48,045
The unions, the teamsters.

695
00:35:48,112 --> 00:35:50,948
Transportation, trucking industry.
The waterfront.

696
00:35:51,382 --> 00:35:54,619
KAREN: Whatever it was in buildings
that were being built

697
00:35:54,685 --> 00:35:56,954
in New York City
and the surrounding areas,

698
00:35:57,021 --> 00:35:59,223
the mob had some sort
of involvement.

699
00:35:59,290 --> 00:36:00,725
And my father was the go-to guy.

700
00:36:01,092 --> 00:36:03,694
How much money
was the Gambino family taking in?

701
00:36:03,761 --> 00:36:05,163
I couldn't even imagine it.

702
00:36:05,229 --> 00:36:06,964
I was making a couple
of million a year.

703
00:36:07,031 --> 00:36:11,736
I had a house on Staten Island
worth about a half a mil.

704
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:15,006
I had a 30-acre horse
farm in New Jersey.

705
00:36:15,072 --> 00:36:21,179
I had a little 560SEL Mercedes.
So I was living pretty decent.

706
00:36:21,245 --> 00:36:22,547
Were there signs?

707
00:36:22,613 --> 00:36:26,017
Yeah, my father would come home,
like, I would help him count the cash.

708
00:36:26,083 --> 00:36:27,285
Like, he had wads of cash.

709
00:36:27,351 --> 00:36:30,721
He would empty them out on the
kitchen table, and I would help him.

710
00:36:30,788 --> 00:36:31,989
That would be like my job.

711
00:36:32,056 --> 00:36:33,758
SAMMY: John was making, uh...

712
00:36:34,192 --> 00:36:36,861
I would say anywhere between $5
and $20 million a year.

713
00:36:36,928 --> 00:36:39,230
We raped the community
on a constant basis

714
00:36:39,297 --> 00:36:40,498
in every way, shape, or form.

715
00:36:40,565 --> 00:36:44,402
What did you say to yourselves?
When you're doing this to other people?

716
00:36:44,735 --> 00:36:47,171
What do we say to ourselves
while we're at the table

717
00:36:47,238 --> 00:36:48,239
cutting up the money?

718
00:36:48,806 --> 00:36:51,842
We didn't say too much.
We'd just cut up the money.

719
00:36:51,909 --> 00:36:53,711
It was-- it was for greed.

720
00:36:53,778 --> 00:36:58,216
There's no honor in a lot of things
that we do.

721
00:37:00,351 --> 00:37:03,387
NARRATOR: (from "Wiseguy") "Violence was
natural to them. It fueled them.

722
00:37:03,588 --> 00:37:07,024
The common knowledge that they
would unquestionably take a life

723
00:37:07,291 --> 00:37:09,327
ironically gave them life.

724
00:37:09,927 --> 00:37:13,331
If they were crossed, denied,
offended, thwarted in any way,

725
00:37:13,397 --> 00:37:16,801
or even mildly annoyed,
retribution was demanded.

726
00:37:17,535 --> 00:37:19,470
And violence was their answer."

727
00:37:19,537 --> 00:37:24,041
We killed amongst ourselves in--
according to our rules.

728
00:37:24,642 --> 00:37:27,745
I never killed a legitimate
person.

729
00:37:27,812 --> 00:37:31,282
I never woke up one morning saying,
"I'd like to go kill somebody."

730
00:37:32,483 --> 00:37:34,018
It was for what you did.

731
00:37:34,385 --> 00:37:40,791
And most of the times, you did something
that you deserve to die for.

732
00:37:41,459 --> 00:37:43,494
So I don't have no mercy
for you, really.

733
00:37:43,561 --> 00:37:46,430
CURTIS: Most times they end up
shooting their own

734
00:37:46,497 --> 00:37:48,499
because who are you hanging out with
most of the time?

735
00:37:48,566 --> 00:37:50,635
You're in the social club
with your own guys.

736
00:37:50,835 --> 00:37:52,003
You hear all the gossip.

737
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:53,904
This guy did this,
this guy didn't--

738
00:37:53,971 --> 00:37:56,941
Then all of a sudden you want to
go out and settle all scores.

739
00:37:57,008 --> 00:37:58,476
You think, hey, you're
a tough guy.

740
00:37:58,542 --> 00:38:02,880
Very often in the mob,
murder is very personal.

741
00:38:02,947 --> 00:38:04,181
It's people you know.

742
00:38:04,248 --> 00:38:06,617
I mean, they always say,
the guy who will get you

743
00:38:06,684 --> 00:38:09,420
is your best friend, because that's the
person who can make you

744
00:38:09,487 --> 00:38:12,390
comfortable enough to show up
at that meeting where you'll get killed.

745
00:38:12,456 --> 00:38:18,229
So, Louis Milito was actually
Gravano's best childhood friend.

746
00:38:18,296 --> 00:38:21,532
KAREN: Not only someone that I
considered my father's friend,

747
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:22,867
but he was an uncle to me.

748
00:38:22,933 --> 00:38:26,537
I was around him a lot as a
child growing up.

749
00:38:26,604 --> 00:38:31,575
His family-- he was Cosa Nostra,
like my father.

750
00:38:31,642 --> 00:38:34,679
DEENA: I said, "Uncle Sammy,
I haven't talked to my father in two days,

751
00:38:34,745 --> 00:38:36,380
and he didn't go to work.
Is something wrong?"

752
00:38:36,447 --> 00:38:39,216
He said, "Oh, princess, he's fine.
He's fine."

753
00:38:39,550 --> 00:38:43,120
I said, "I don't know where he is,
and it's just strange."

754
00:38:43,187 --> 00:38:45,756
And her mother said,
when Sammy walked out,

755
00:38:45,823 --> 00:38:48,192
"He killed your father."
Her mother knew.

756
00:38:48,259 --> 00:38:49,660
DIANE: And you felt nothing
then either?

757
00:38:49,727 --> 00:38:51,862
Oh, I absolutely felt something.
Tore me up.

758
00:38:51,929 --> 00:38:55,466
I knew the wife. I knew the children.
It killed me inside.

759
00:38:55,866 --> 00:38:57,335
DEENA: My father was
a wonderful man.

760
00:38:57,401 --> 00:39:01,739
Just the way he used to hold me,
and the way we'd laugh together.

761
00:39:04,542 --> 00:39:06,844
Just his smile.

762
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:15,019
There was nothing I could do
to stop the hit.

763
00:39:15,086 --> 00:39:17,655
It was done quick.
It was over, and it killed me.

764
00:39:17,722 --> 00:39:21,225
You cannot possibly expect
me to believe

765
00:39:21,792 --> 00:39:24,762
that killing my father was one of
the hardest things he had to do.

766
00:39:25,463 --> 00:39:27,098
I don't buy it for a day.

767
00:39:28,132 --> 00:39:29,333
But this is the life.

768
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,471
He betrayed us, and he was caught at
it, and he was killed.

769
00:39:33,704 --> 00:39:36,140
DEENA: My father's remains
have never been found.

770
00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:42,546
DIANE: You are the single most important
witness ever to testify against the mob.

771
00:39:43,781 --> 00:39:44,749
I think I am.

772
00:39:44,815 --> 00:39:47,518
This guy was a greedy,
green-eyed little monster.

773
00:39:47,585 --> 00:39:50,287
John is a double crosser.
I'm a master double crosser.

774
00:39:50,354 --> 00:39:52,823
We played chess, and he lost.

775
00:39:52,890 --> 00:39:54,225
He's a rat.

776
00:39:54,658 --> 00:39:56,927
He ate the Parmesan cheese.

777
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:08,172
SAMMY: This is the true side
of the mafia.

778
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,641
This isn't somebody
talking about the mafia.

779
00:40:10,708 --> 00:40:12,676
I am part of it.

780
00:40:14,512 --> 00:40:16,947
♪♪

781
00:40:17,014 --> 00:40:18,816
KAREN: "Oh, my God, your father's
'Sammy the Bull,'

782
00:40:18,883 --> 00:40:19,750
can we get an autograph?"

783
00:40:19,817 --> 00:40:21,919
GERARD: He didn't come home
and tell me the details.

784
00:40:21,986 --> 00:40:24,088
I knew he killed a few people.

785
00:40:26,190 --> 00:40:27,525
KAREN: He's like, "19."

786
00:40:27,591 --> 00:40:30,594
I'm like, okay, I didn't think it was--
you know, that was lot.

787
00:40:31,996 --> 00:40:35,266
My father was the 19th victim
of Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

788
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:37,368
DIANE: You got it done.

789
00:40:37,435 --> 00:40:38,536
Oh, I got the job done.

790
00:40:38,602 --> 00:40:40,304
ED: He was a professional killer

791
00:40:41,238 --> 00:40:43,307
and he caught
the eye of John Gotti.

792
00:40:44,141 --> 00:40:47,411
KAREN: It's clear that John was
setting my father up.

793
00:40:48,779 --> 00:40:51,849
SAMMY: I look at it as,
I was betrayed,

794
00:40:51,916 --> 00:40:52,917
I betrayed him.

795
00:40:54,351 --> 00:40:56,921
He just looked at me and he said,
"I'm gonna cooperate with the government."

796
00:40:56,987 --> 00:40:59,790
That was everything that
I was taught never to do.

797
00:40:59,857 --> 00:41:02,126
♪♪

798
00:41:03,494 --> 00:41:04,628
He's a rat!

799
00:41:04,695 --> 00:41:06,430
He ate the Parmesan cheese.

800
00:41:06,497 --> 00:41:07,865
Whoa!

801
00:41:08,766 --> 00:41:11,302
JOHN M.: He became the most famous
mob witness in history.

802
00:41:11,368 --> 00:41:13,671
♪♪

803
00:41:14,705 --> 00:41:16,907
SAMMY: They could hug you,
they could kiss you,

804
00:41:16,974 --> 00:41:19,677
they could smile, and they could
shoot you in the (bleep) head.

805
00:41:19,743 --> 00:41:20,578
(gunshot)

806
00:41:20,644 --> 00:41:23,414
He's got 19 murders,
but at least nine lives.

807
00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:25,049
♪♪

808
00:41:25,115 --> 00:41:26,884
LAURA: Is he sorry?

809
00:41:26,951 --> 00:41:28,185
Is he remorseful?

810
00:41:28,252 --> 00:41:29,887
Where are his amends?

811
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:48,172
I've experienced everything that that
lifestyle has brought upon my family,

812
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,042
whether it's heartache,
happiness, betrayal,

813
00:41:52,109 --> 00:41:53,511
I've experienced it all.

814
00:41:53,577 --> 00:41:57,615
♪ Happy birthday ♪

815
00:41:57,681 --> 00:42:03,721
For my Sweet 16, my father had it at
a very well-known "gangster" hangout.

816
00:42:03,787 --> 00:42:06,357
And when I was first introduced
to John Gotti,

817
00:42:06,423 --> 00:42:09,059
I walked over and my father said,
"Say hello to Uncle John."

818
00:42:09,927 --> 00:42:12,029
And I said hello to Uncle John,
and he gave me an envelope

819
00:42:12,096 --> 00:42:15,633
and in the envelope was, you know,
ten $100 bills.

820
00:42:15,699 --> 00:42:19,203
My father chose
an untraditional path.

821
00:42:19,270 --> 00:42:22,740
He chose a career that, you know,
most people don't choose

822
00:42:22,806 --> 00:42:27,545
but, you know, I wish that
we could have had different.

823
00:42:27,611 --> 00:42:29,046
But we don't.

824
00:42:29,113 --> 00:42:33,617
A lot of families, they said were
affected by the mafia, and they were.

825
00:42:33,684 --> 00:42:35,819
I don't think we were.

826
00:42:35,886 --> 00:42:38,689
We became-- we were in a way,
in one way.

827
00:42:38,756 --> 00:42:39,590
KAREN: Right.

828
00:42:39,657 --> 00:42:41,358
In another way,
it made us tighter

829
00:42:41,425 --> 00:42:45,563
and that you guys understood me
and what was going on.

830
00:42:45,629 --> 00:42:48,032
I mean,
I don't-- I don't--

831
00:42:48,098 --> 00:42:50,000
I do disagree with you with that

832
00:42:50,067 --> 00:42:54,171
because I think that every family
was affected in a way.

833
00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:58,042
Um, we were definitely affected but
it's how people deal with the effect,

834
00:42:58,108 --> 00:42:59,877
how people deal with the aftermath.

835
00:42:59,944 --> 00:43:03,614
I've come to understand fully
that there's two sides to people.

836
00:43:04,014 --> 00:43:08,652
So they think that the mafia,
you look at them, they're all animals.

837
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:09,887
No, it's not so.

838
00:43:09,954 --> 00:43:12,289
KAREN: The men that were
involved in my father's lives,

839
00:43:12,356 --> 00:43:13,457
they weren't gangsters to me.

840
00:43:13,524 --> 00:43:15,259
They were my uncles,
they were people I loved.

841
00:43:15,326 --> 00:43:18,095
People that I felt would take care
of me and protect me.

842
00:43:18,162 --> 00:43:20,631
Cosa Nostra is our thing.

843
00:43:21,131 --> 00:43:25,502
It's everything you've seen in
The Godfather.

844
00:43:25,569 --> 00:43:27,438
It's-- It's all true.

845
00:43:27,504 --> 00:43:29,406
You spend time with your family?

846
00:43:29,473 --> 00:43:30,674
Sure, I do.

847
00:43:30,741 --> 00:43:32,409
Good.

848
00:43:32,476 --> 00:43:36,413
Because a man that doesn't spend time
with his family can never be a real man.

849
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,218
It's about family, but it's also
about control and power.

850
00:43:42,820 --> 00:43:44,254
All male dominated.

851
00:43:44,321 --> 00:43:47,257
There's no-- there's nobody
female in the mafia.

852
00:43:47,324 --> 00:43:49,660
Never was--
Not in the Italian one, anyway.

853
00:43:49,727 --> 00:43:50,861
Never will be.

854
00:43:50,928 --> 00:43:54,598
There's no doubt The Godfather was
the greatest mob movie of all time.

855
00:43:54,665 --> 00:43:59,169
It elevated the status of that life.

856
00:43:59,236 --> 00:44:01,238
I mean, look, Don Corleone,
the way he carried himself,

857
00:44:01,305 --> 00:44:04,074
guys on the street started to
carry themselves differently

858
00:44:04,141 --> 00:44:05,542
because of The Godfather.

859
00:44:06,443 --> 00:44:10,681
KAREN: You see a lot of family culture
when they have the big Italian weddings.

860
00:44:10,748 --> 00:44:12,916
♪♪

861
00:44:18,255 --> 00:44:21,325
I mean, it was just--
everything was over the top

862
00:44:21,392 --> 00:44:24,828
and everything centered around
food and family

863
00:44:24,895 --> 00:44:27,431
and music at that time.

864
00:44:27,498 --> 00:44:30,100
You know,
Frank Sinatra was very big.

865
00:44:30,167 --> 00:44:32,302
♪♪

866
00:44:34,405 --> 00:44:39,810
Well, I think that The Godfather changed
everybody's perception of the mafia.

867
00:44:39,877 --> 00:44:42,279
Before that, they were just
considered low-life thugs

868
00:44:42,346 --> 00:44:44,715
and Italians in general
were looked down upon.

869
00:44:44,782 --> 00:44:48,218
Then The Godfather told
a different story and glamorized it.

870
00:44:48,285 --> 00:44:51,889
Here was this saint-like figure,
Marlon Brando,

871
00:44:51,955 --> 00:44:54,525
the head of the Corleone family.

872
00:44:54,591 --> 00:44:56,360
He was like ready for beatification.

873
00:44:56,427 --> 00:44:58,529
"Hey, Pope,
you forgot this guy, you know,

874
00:44:58,595 --> 00:45:00,898
He's entitled to sainthood."

875
00:45:00,964 --> 00:45:04,001
When they were all what
we would call "un animales,"

876
00:45:04,068 --> 00:45:08,038
although that's really not saying much
about the animal world that we live in.

877
00:45:08,105 --> 00:45:11,642
They're sub animales, the worst.

878
00:45:11,709 --> 00:45:13,844
ANTHONY: That's the first time
I went to prison.

879
00:45:13,911 --> 00:45:17,281
I'm Toni Lee Ruggiano, I'm the daughter
of Anthony Ruggiano Jr.

880
00:45:17,347 --> 00:45:19,516
and the granddaughter
of "Fat Andy" Ruggiano.

881
00:45:19,583 --> 00:45:24,788
When I was little,
I knew my dad as an inmate.

882
00:45:24,855 --> 00:45:28,292
I knew that he loved me, and like,

883
00:45:28,358 --> 00:45:33,363
I knew that he cared about us as a
family, like, I knew him in pieces.

884
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:36,767
Look at this picture...
who's that?

885
00:45:37,668 --> 00:45:38,502
What does that bring back?

886
00:45:39,303 --> 00:45:43,707
This was my favorite video
to watch when I was little.

887
00:45:43,774 --> 00:45:44,908
I used to watch it on repeat.

888
00:45:44,975 --> 00:45:47,611
I used to be obsessed with
my parents' wedding video.

889
00:45:49,947 --> 00:45:51,815
I literally would watch it
multiple times a day.

890
00:45:51,882 --> 00:45:54,084
I had it memorized, every single song
that played in it,

891
00:45:54,151 --> 00:45:56,220
how his face looked when
he walked down the aisle,

892
00:45:56,286 --> 00:45:58,622
um, the way he looked at my mom.

893
00:45:58,689 --> 00:46:01,458
Like, it was just-- looked like
such a happy celebration.

894
00:46:01,525 --> 00:46:05,329
Brother was there dancing and like,
you know, being goofy.

895
00:46:05,395 --> 00:46:07,397
-ANTHONY: You were there, too.
[laughs]

896
00:46:07,464 --> 00:46:09,166
Yes, mom was pregnant with me.

897
00:46:09,233 --> 00:46:12,102
And I think it was just a
way for me to see you as well,

898
00:46:12,169 --> 00:46:14,204
outside of like, in a different--

899
00:46:14,271 --> 00:46:16,774
Like, I would have watched
any video with you in it

900
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,676
to see like,
how you interact with other people,

901
00:46:19,743 --> 00:46:22,412
how you interact outside of jail,
you know?

902
00:46:22,479 --> 00:46:26,483
This Cosa Nostra, this whole life,
affects the kids,

903
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:28,452
the parents, the wives.

904
00:46:28,519 --> 00:46:31,522
It's-- It's far-reaching,
the effects.

905
00:46:34,458 --> 00:46:36,627
Every day of your life
when you're in that life,

906
00:46:36,693 --> 00:46:40,497
you're violating the laws of man
and the laws of God.

907
00:46:40,564 --> 00:46:41,799
That's it.

908
00:46:41,865 --> 00:46:44,101
That's it, and anybody that
tries to sugarcoat it

909
00:46:44,168 --> 00:46:46,203
is just not telling the truth.

910
00:46:46,270 --> 00:46:48,605
He didn't come home
and tell me the details.

911
00:46:48,672 --> 00:46:50,607
I knew he killed a few people.

912
00:46:52,009 --> 00:46:54,745
As far as I'm concerned,
they deserved it.

913
00:46:55,279 --> 00:46:58,148
I would have done anything
for him and my family.

914
00:46:58,215 --> 00:47:01,451
I'm just always fascinated
by the ability of people to--

915
00:47:02,019 --> 00:47:05,756
to completely divorce themselves
from the dark reality

916
00:47:05,823 --> 00:47:08,525
of the consequences of their actions.

917
00:47:08,592 --> 00:47:13,163
If you're in the mob and you're a
killer, you actually desensitize yourself

918
00:47:13,230 --> 00:47:16,834
to even who the victim was,
because often they're very close to you.

919
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:19,870
When I hear the story of Sammy
and his brother-in-law,

920
00:47:19,937 --> 00:47:21,772
you know, a family member?

921
00:47:21,839 --> 00:47:26,109
Listen, I can tell you this,
if I was put in that position,

922
00:47:27,211 --> 00:47:29,646
I couldn't do it--
I wouldn't do it.

923
00:47:29,713 --> 00:47:33,984
When you talk about killing a best friend
or a brother-in-law like Sammy had to do,

924
00:47:34,718 --> 00:47:38,589
I don't know that the reasons
are there to justify it,

925
00:47:39,456 --> 00:47:40,557
but in that life,

926
00:47:40,624 --> 00:47:43,927
there's been how many murders over
the years and none of them were right.

927
00:47:44,328 --> 00:47:46,663
-Nick Scibetta.
-That was my wife's brother.

928
00:47:46,730 --> 00:47:48,332
That was another one
that killed me.

929
00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:53,136
For 14 years, I mean, going back--
or whatever time passed--

930
00:47:53,203 --> 00:47:56,006
I mean, to see my wife, my
mother-in-law, my father-in-law, people...

931
00:47:56,073 --> 00:47:57,608
It just tore me up.

932
00:47:57,674 --> 00:47:59,376
Did you tell them,
did they know?

933
00:47:59,443 --> 00:48:00,878
No, what do you want me to do?

934
00:48:00,944 --> 00:48:03,180
Go home and tell them,
"I just killed your son?"

935
00:48:03,247 --> 00:48:04,348
Or your brother?

936
00:48:04,414 --> 00:48:05,782
No, of course not.

937
00:48:05,849 --> 00:48:07,918
-They didn't suspect?
-SAMMY: No.

938
00:48:07,985 --> 00:48:10,053
Your wife didn't suspect?
No.

939
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,388
When did she find out?

940
00:48:11,455 --> 00:48:14,224
When I told the government
of everything I've done.

941
00:48:14,291 --> 00:48:16,159
Did she say something?

942
00:48:17,895 --> 00:48:20,230
I think she was in
a little bit of shock over it

943
00:48:20,297 --> 00:48:22,566
but she really didn't
say too much about it.

944
00:48:23,166 --> 00:48:24,534
DIANE: A little bit of shock?

945
00:48:24,601 --> 00:48:29,673
Sammy rationalized those 19 murders
irrespective of who the victim was.

946
00:48:30,908 --> 00:48:34,678
They were in the mob, they knew what they
were doing when they broke the rules,

947
00:48:34,745 --> 00:48:39,049
they knew what the penalty was,
I just happened to enforce the penalty.

948
00:48:39,116 --> 00:48:40,617
They committed suicide.

949
00:48:40,684 --> 00:48:45,789
Would I be willing right now to say
I wouldn't do that,

950
00:48:45,856 --> 00:48:48,759
even though it would
cost me my life back then?

951
00:48:48,825 --> 00:48:49,960
No, (bleep) no.

952
00:48:51,528 --> 00:48:52,362
No.

953
00:48:52,429 --> 00:48:56,233
What you do-- I'm not giving up my life
that easy, because of what you did.

954
00:48:57,401 --> 00:48:58,635
So I'm gonna break the golden rule

955
00:48:58,702 --> 00:49:00,537
and I'm gonna get whacked
for what you did?

956
00:49:02,139 --> 00:49:03,173
Why?

957
00:49:03,507 --> 00:49:04,508
You did it.

958
00:49:04,741 --> 00:49:06,243
You deserve to die, not me.

959
00:49:06,310 --> 00:49:07,377
I didn't do it.

960
00:49:07,444 --> 00:49:09,913
I'm not in his head
and his heart and his mind,

961
00:49:10,547 --> 00:49:14,384
but, uh, you got to have something,
man, inside of you

962
00:49:14,451 --> 00:49:17,054
to be able to do something like that,
and it's not a good thing.

963
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,490
John barked, I bit.

964
00:49:21,358 --> 00:49:23,026
And a lot of people knew that.

965
00:49:23,093 --> 00:49:24,261
DIANE: You got it done?

966
00:49:24,328 --> 00:49:25,729
I got the job done.

967
00:49:25,796 --> 00:49:28,432
And if he'd said...

968
00:49:28,498 --> 00:49:29,766
"Kill your son."

969
00:49:30,467 --> 00:49:31,601
My son?

970
00:49:32,536 --> 00:49:34,504
I probably would've fought
on that one.

971
00:49:36,473 --> 00:49:38,508
There's no way
I would've killed my son.

972
00:49:40,143 --> 00:49:43,013
I would've died with him or
I would've died trying or--

973
00:49:43,814 --> 00:49:44,715
There's no way.

974
00:49:50,988 --> 00:49:54,057
PRESIDENT REAGAN: For many years,
we have tolerated in America,

975
00:49:54,124 --> 00:49:56,560
a syndicate of organized criminals

976
00:49:56,626 --> 00:49:59,529
whose power is now reaching
unparalleled heights.

977
00:50:01,331 --> 00:50:04,634
WOMAN: The government says
John Gotti is a cold-blooded killer.

978
00:50:04,701 --> 00:50:08,505
Perhaps the most ruthless and
powerful mob boss in America.

979
00:50:08,572 --> 00:50:12,075
This guy was the absolute worst guy
to take over organized crime

980
00:50:12,142 --> 00:50:14,244
because he talked like a yenta.

981
00:50:14,311 --> 00:50:16,313
You guys and Giuliani
should be in church.

982
00:50:16,380 --> 00:50:18,115
Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

983
00:50:18,181 --> 00:50:19,549
Gossip, gossip, gossip.

984
00:50:19,616 --> 00:50:20,684
Thank you.

985
00:50:21,618 --> 00:50:24,721
Gotti took the underworld
and put it out for the world.

986
00:50:25,789 --> 00:50:28,358
CURTIS: Meantime,
the FBI is following him.

987
00:50:28,425 --> 00:50:30,394
SAMMY: They had surveillance.

988
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:33,263
All they had to do was sit across
the street, set up some cameras

989
00:50:33,330 --> 00:50:36,199
and just video this thing nonstop.

990
00:50:37,367 --> 00:50:40,570
GEORGE: John, especially once he
ascended to being the boss,

991
00:50:40,637 --> 00:50:44,508
he made everybody come and
really kind of kowtowed to him.

992
00:50:48,478 --> 00:50:51,548
That made the Ravenite Social Club
a key target

993
00:50:51,615 --> 00:50:53,950
for me as the investigator
in that case.

994
00:50:54,851 --> 00:50:59,923
The Ravenite had been a well-known
Gambino social club in Mulberry street.

995
00:51:04,428 --> 00:51:07,731
The Ravenite club was an exclusive
club,

996
00:51:07,798 --> 00:51:09,800
and guys would play cards
and drink coffee.

997
00:51:09,866 --> 00:51:11,935
It was like being allowed into the,
you know,

998
00:51:12,002 --> 00:51:16,573
one of the private clubs in New York
City, except this was a club of mobsters.

999
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,076
MICHAEL: Their social clubs were
really our headquarters.

1000
00:51:19,142 --> 00:51:21,745
They were our safe havens,
the place we hung out,

1001
00:51:21,812 --> 00:51:23,146
the place we held court.

1002
00:51:24,081 --> 00:51:27,818
GEORGE: The whole family had to show
up at the Ravenite on a weekly basis.

1003
00:51:27,884 --> 00:51:30,320
John, he was there
five nights a week.

1004
00:51:30,954 --> 00:51:33,790
He brought captains
and made guys down there,

1005
00:51:33,857 --> 00:51:35,759
told them how to dress
and how to act.

1006
00:51:35,826 --> 00:51:37,260
He would tell you how to dress?

1007
00:51:37,961 --> 00:51:38,795
Yes.

1008
00:51:39,463 --> 00:51:42,966
Basically, he would tell guys to
wear suits and shirts and ties,

1009
00:51:43,033 --> 00:51:43,867
and this and that.

1010
00:51:44,167 --> 00:51:45,936
You know,
walking into a restaurant,

1011
00:51:46,002 --> 00:51:50,073
John Gotti with 14 guys all
dressed to the hilt is what he wanted.

1012
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,576
CURTIS: There were so many things
that you had to do

1013
00:51:52,642 --> 00:51:54,911
to show you were one of them.

1014
00:51:56,213 --> 00:51:59,082
But if you wanted to hang with
them, you had to look like them.

1015
00:51:59,149 --> 00:52:01,051
LARRY: This is my good luck pinky
ring.

1016
00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:03,653
They would have their drink,
and they would be sipping it like that,

1017
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:04,921
so their pinky would be out.

1018
00:52:04,988 --> 00:52:07,324
It was all show, all a look.

1019
00:52:08,158 --> 00:52:12,429
Gangsters made double-breasted
pinstriped suits popular.

1020
00:52:12,496 --> 00:52:14,131
We wore expensive watches.

1021
00:52:14,498 --> 00:52:16,399
It's a Rolex,
it's a Presidential.

1022
00:52:16,466 --> 00:52:18,835
And naturally,
you had to have the chains.

1023
00:52:18,902 --> 00:52:20,937
You know, like, 52 crucifixes

1024
00:52:21,004 --> 00:52:23,106
which probably represented
all the people you killed.

1025
00:52:24,541 --> 00:52:27,210
Burgundy...
matches the burgundy tux.

1026
00:52:27,777 --> 00:52:29,679
Every culture has their thing,

1027
00:52:29,746 --> 00:52:33,783
and I think in the Italian mob
culture, they exuded power.

1028
00:52:35,352 --> 00:52:39,456
SAMMY: I don't think any of the old
timers would believe that Cosa Nostra

1029
00:52:39,523 --> 00:52:43,393
was to be run like this
in any way, shape or form.

1030
00:52:44,928 --> 00:52:48,665
You know, power has a way where
you can believe, after awhile,

1031
00:52:48,732 --> 00:52:50,000
you can walk on water.

1032
00:52:50,066 --> 00:52:53,403
TOMMY: Sammy told them, "tone it
down, don't have everybody coming here"

1033
00:52:53,470 --> 00:52:56,106
It was supposed to be
a secret thing, you know.

1034
00:52:56,173 --> 00:52:59,109
Guys go meet-- you know,
go meet on the "B" train somewhere

1035
00:52:59,176 --> 00:53:01,077
or the "R" train and talk.

1036
00:53:01,144 --> 00:53:02,579
That's the way you're
supposed to do it.

1037
00:53:02,646 --> 00:53:06,583
SAMMY: I would tell him, John, there's the
whole government sitting outside the club.

1038
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:09,586
There's news people
wandering around outside.

1039
00:53:09,653 --> 00:53:11,087
What are we doing here?

1040
00:53:12,389 --> 00:53:14,391
He would just shut you up
and say, "No, no, no.

1041
00:53:14,457 --> 00:53:16,259
I'll show you, watch.

1042
00:53:16,326 --> 00:53:18,128
I'll show you how to beat cases."

1043
00:53:18,195 --> 00:53:20,297
He showed us real good.

1044
00:53:20,363 --> 00:53:22,599
When you're the boss
of a crime family

1045
00:53:22,666 --> 00:53:24,734
and you're on
the cover of Time Magazine

1046
00:53:25,435 --> 00:53:29,906
in a caricature painted by Andy Warhol,
you're bringing heat on yourself.

1047
00:53:29,973 --> 00:53:31,675
That's a given.

1048
00:53:31,741 --> 00:53:34,311
But by extension, you're bringing heat
on the other families, too.

1049
00:53:34,377 --> 00:53:35,845
You're supposed to be invisible.

1050
00:53:36,546 --> 00:53:38,615
He made my job easier.

1051
00:53:39,182 --> 00:53:41,651
He introduced me to
that whole family.

1052
00:53:42,619 --> 00:53:44,588
KAREN: Was he supposed
to be out there like that?

1053
00:53:44,654 --> 00:53:48,992
Was he supposed to give
the whole mob

1054
00:53:49,059 --> 00:53:51,161
on a silver platter to the FBI?

1055
00:53:51,228 --> 00:53:54,764
WOMAN: The FBI and New York State's
organized crime task force

1056
00:53:54,831 --> 00:53:56,199
set a trap for Gotti.

1057
00:53:56,266 --> 00:53:59,769
GEORGE: So the whole strategy was
to put bugs where John was having

1058
00:53:59,836 --> 00:54:01,838
his most secret conversations,

1059
00:54:01,905 --> 00:54:05,809
where he was gonna talk the most
about the criminal conduct.

1060
00:54:06,409 --> 00:54:08,678
The best places wound up
being the Ravenite,

1061
00:54:09,312 --> 00:54:10,780
and then the apartment above the
Ravenite.

1062
00:54:11,514 --> 00:54:13,316
JOHN M.: That bug is the mother lode.

1063
00:54:13,683 --> 00:54:18,722
Because now you have the boss,
the underboss, and the senior advisor.

1064
00:54:18,788 --> 00:54:21,925
Basically the administration
of the Gambino crime family,

1065
00:54:22,425 --> 00:54:25,996
having a board meeting about what to
do about various problems.

1066
00:54:32,769 --> 00:54:36,940
Everybody would warn him,
"Hey, don't have a sit-down in that room.

1067
00:54:37,007 --> 00:54:38,842
It's wired up like a Christmas tree."

1068
00:54:38,908 --> 00:54:42,178
"Yeah, I'm impervious,
they can't touch me.

1069
00:54:42,245 --> 00:54:44,014
Like MC Hammer,
'You Can't Touch This'."

1070
00:54:45,448 --> 00:54:49,319
ED: We're able to pick up conversations
about labor racketeering, it turned out.

1071
00:54:49,686 --> 00:54:53,290
But invariably, when you're in
the inner sanctums of the mafia dons,

1072
00:54:53,356 --> 00:54:55,725
the mafia bosses,
they were talking about murders.

1073
00:55:02,165 --> 00:55:03,166
This was John.

1074
00:55:03,233 --> 00:55:04,768
He thinks he could
say anything he wants.

1075
00:55:04,834 --> 00:55:07,270
And you start talking about
murders on the phone.

1076
00:55:07,704 --> 00:55:09,539
GEORGE: He was the best witness
I ever had,

1077
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,543
and he couldn't dispute anything, because
it was his voice coming off the tapes.

1078
00:55:13,777 --> 00:55:18,615
Listening to the Gotti tapes,
it's clear John was setting my father up.

1079
00:55:23,687 --> 00:55:25,689
In other words, poor John Gotti.

1080
00:55:25,755 --> 00:55:27,824
He lost control of
Sammy "The Bull."

1081
00:55:27,891 --> 00:55:29,192
He's killing people.

1082
00:55:29,259 --> 00:55:31,661
He wasn't gonna take the fall for
John.

1083
00:55:31,728 --> 00:55:33,830
And I guess his other option
was to kill him.

1084
00:55:33,897 --> 00:55:35,832
How would you have done it?
How could you?

1085
00:55:35,899 --> 00:55:38,301
Me and Frankie would've just went in,
started stabbing to the body,

1086
00:55:38,368 --> 00:55:39,669
and I would've cut his throat.

1087
00:55:39,736 --> 00:55:41,938
And, uh, it would've been over.

1088
00:55:45,542 --> 00:55:48,778
The reputed mob leader John Gotti
was acquitted on assault charges.

1089
00:55:48,845 --> 00:55:52,649
WOMAN: Extortion, loan sharking,
racketeering, bribing witnesses.

1090
00:55:52,716 --> 00:55:54,451
MAN: We find him not guilty.

1091
00:55:54,517 --> 00:55:55,819
CROWD: Yay!

1092
00:55:55,885 --> 00:55:59,456
MAN: John Gotti walked out of court
today still a free man.

1093
00:55:59,522 --> 00:56:01,591
Three times police have
brought charges against Gotti

1094
00:56:01,658 --> 00:56:03,526
and three times he has
beaten the rap.

1095
00:56:03,593 --> 00:56:06,963
Well, John was known as the "Teflon
Don" because the cases that he beat.

1096
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:10,667
I mean, he was indicted several
times, but nothing stuck to him.

1097
00:56:10,734 --> 00:56:13,670
Every charge that the government
charged him with wouldn't stick--

1098
00:56:13,737 --> 00:56:15,772
Teflon-- so "Teflon Don."

1099
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:17,140
MAN: Hey, John, you gonna beat it?

1100
00:56:18,241 --> 00:56:20,110
No, no.

1101
00:56:20,543 --> 00:56:21,845
He never beat the system.

1102
00:56:21,911 --> 00:56:23,780
Sammy "The Bull"
was fixing the trial.

1103
00:56:23,847 --> 00:56:25,348
I was reaching jurors...

1104
00:56:26,683 --> 00:56:28,084
and bribing them.

1105
00:56:28,551 --> 00:56:31,020
And he didn't win the trial
fair and square.

1106
00:56:31,955 --> 00:56:33,690
I rigged the whole trial.

1107
00:56:34,491 --> 00:56:36,993
TERENCE: I think the dynamic between
John Gotti and Sammy "The Bull"

1108
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:40,063
was always interesting to me
because I think it was

1109
00:56:40,130 --> 00:56:44,234
a begrudging respect that Sammy
seemed to have for John Gotti.

1110
00:56:44,300 --> 00:56:48,471
He respected the rules, respected
the fact that John Gotti was the boss,

1111
00:56:48,538 --> 00:56:52,442
but I suspect that Sammy thought he
probably could have done that job better.

1112
00:56:53,143 --> 00:56:58,114
GEORGE: John starts recognizing that
everybody knows and respects Sammy.

1113
00:56:58,181 --> 00:57:00,350
He's the guy interacting with
everybody.

1114
00:57:00,750 --> 00:57:03,853
That becomes a threat to the boss
because now all of a sudden,

1115
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,823
I can be replaced by this guy
and we don't miss a beat, right?

1116
00:57:07,657 --> 00:57:10,794
KAREN: So, that's when my father and John
started to really fall out on the street.

1117
00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:13,663
You can't be jealous of your own
teammate or it's gonna crumble.

1118
00:57:13,730 --> 00:57:16,433
And that's exactly what happened,
it crumbled.

1119
00:57:16,499 --> 00:57:19,702
JOHN JR.: I believe it was
December 11, 1990.

1120
00:57:19,769 --> 00:57:21,037
We just left the Ravenite,

1121
00:57:21,104 --> 00:57:24,207
It was all over the radio that
John Gotti was just indicted.

1122
00:57:24,274 --> 00:57:26,242
I remember it very vividly.

1123
00:57:26,309 --> 00:57:29,712
I was watching the news
and there he and Gotti

1124
00:57:29,779 --> 00:57:32,816
were on TV being arrested.
(laughs)

1125
00:57:32,882 --> 00:57:35,685
I was like, "Whoa!"

1126
00:57:36,319 --> 00:57:37,187
Wow!

1127
00:57:37,253 --> 00:57:40,423
I said, you know,
it may be a matter of time

1128
00:57:40,490 --> 00:57:43,460
when this all goes down badly.

1129
00:57:44,794 --> 00:57:48,698
I think the demise between them
came at the first day of arraignments

1130
00:57:48,765 --> 00:57:51,734
when they played the tapes and Sammy
heard all the diverse things

1131
00:57:51,801 --> 00:57:53,803
that John was saying about him.

1132
00:57:53,870 --> 00:57:57,006
He was trying to convince people
that my father was a loose cannon.

1133
00:58:16,459 --> 00:58:21,064
ANTHONY: On the tapes, John was making all
kinds of derogatory comments about Sammy.

1134
00:58:21,130 --> 00:58:24,300
That every time he kills somebody,
he takes over their business.

1135
00:58:24,367 --> 00:58:26,569
He wants to kill this guy,
he wants to kill that guy.

1136
00:58:26,636 --> 00:58:29,506
So John, more or less,
was throwing Sammy under the bus.

1137
00:58:29,572 --> 00:58:33,443
In case he ever got arrested,
Sammy would, you know, take the weight.

1138
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:35,245
JOHN JR.: That was the Gravano
conversation.

1139
00:58:35,311 --> 00:58:37,080
That was the worst of all the tapes.

1140
00:58:37,146 --> 00:58:40,850
My father tells him, "Look, if I have
any more complaints about you,

1141
00:58:40,917 --> 00:58:42,418
I'm gonna have to deal with it."

1142
00:58:42,485 --> 00:58:45,722
From that moment on,
Sammy walked with two feet in one shoe.

1143
00:58:45,788 --> 00:58:49,092
That was the reason for that conversation,
in all fairness to my father,

1144
00:58:49,158 --> 00:58:50,894
that was the reason for that
conversation.

1145
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,265
And I realized that John,
probably eventually, would take me out

1146
00:58:55,331 --> 00:59:01,337
for no other reason but he wants one
show, one boss-- John Gotti.

1147
00:59:01,404 --> 00:59:03,940
He don't want anybody to be his
equal.

1148
00:59:05,141 --> 00:59:09,579
He don't want anybody in any
way, shape or form, to shine.

1149
00:59:09,646 --> 00:59:11,481
And I guess
I was shining too much.

1150
00:59:12,048 --> 00:59:13,983
You make it sound like high school.

1151
00:59:14,684 --> 00:59:16,853
Yeah, but the only thing is
that in high school,

1152
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,222
you could throw
a spit ball at somebody.

1153
00:59:19,289 --> 00:59:21,190
We use bullets.

1154
00:59:21,257 --> 00:59:24,127
Sammy thought at first,
"Well, I'll just kill him in prison."

1155
00:59:24,727 --> 00:59:28,331
But then he said, "Well, but then I'll be
spending the rest of my life in prison.

1156
00:59:28,398 --> 00:59:33,436
So killing him is not gonna
bring me any satisfaction."

1157
00:59:33,503 --> 00:59:35,271
How would you have done it?
How could you?

1158
00:59:35,338 --> 00:59:37,373
We could have got some,
what they call shanks,

1159
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,943
knives in prison,
homemade knives.

1160
00:59:40,643 --> 00:59:41,811
Me and Frankie would've just went in,

1161
00:59:41,878 --> 00:59:44,514
Frankie would've started stabbing to
the body and I would've cut his throat.

1162
00:59:44,581 --> 00:59:46,316
And, uh, it would've been over.

1163
00:59:47,016 --> 00:59:49,252
ANGEL: He thought about his family
and he said,

1164
00:59:49,319 --> 00:59:53,823
"The only thing I can do is give the
government what they really want,

1165
00:59:53,890 --> 00:59:57,226
give him John Gotti on a silver
platter."

1166
00:59:57,293 --> 00:59:58,461
So that's what he did.

1167
00:59:59,262 --> 01:00:01,898
GEORGE: Within a year of them
being in jail,

1168
01:00:01,965 --> 01:00:04,300
we get word that
Sammy wants to cooperate.

1169
01:00:04,367 --> 01:00:06,970
It was November 8, 1991-- he flipped.

1170
01:00:07,036 --> 01:00:10,473
And the day Gravano became a
rat, it changed our lives.

1171
01:00:11,074 --> 01:00:12,909
Because he's been around a lot of
years

1172
01:00:12,976 --> 01:00:15,845
and he knew a lot of secrets
about a lot of different people.

1173
01:00:15,912 --> 01:00:17,814
Sammy had the business mind.

1174
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:22,185
"There is an opportunity here
for me to continue living a life

1175
01:00:22,251 --> 01:00:25,989
a little more normal than spending it
behind jail for the rest of my life."

1176
01:00:26,055 --> 01:00:28,424
JOHN JR: Gravano never did one day
in jail in his life.

1177
01:00:28,491 --> 01:00:30,893
That was his first time
being incarcerated.

1178
01:00:31,628 --> 01:00:32,629
He didn't like it.

1179
01:00:32,695 --> 01:00:34,864
My father was disappointed in
himself.

1180
01:00:34,931 --> 01:00:38,735
He knew he should have never
brought that guy into the inner circle.

1181
01:00:38,801 --> 01:00:41,938
At that point it became a reality,
that he made a horrible mistake.

1182
01:00:42,005 --> 01:00:44,807
The day my father told me
that he was gonna cooperate

1183
01:00:44,874 --> 01:00:47,010
probably was the worst day of my
life.

1184
01:00:47,076 --> 01:00:49,812
That was everything that
I was taught never to do.

1185
01:00:49,879 --> 01:00:52,148
It was almost like as if he'd
just stabbed me in the heart.

1186
01:00:52,215 --> 01:00:53,983
I felt betrayed.

1187
01:00:54,050 --> 01:00:55,752
And she ran out, crying.

1188
01:00:55,818 --> 01:00:58,087
I came close to not doing it.

1189
01:00:59,322 --> 01:01:01,057
It killed me to
see her that way.

1190
01:01:01,124 --> 01:01:05,128
After he did cooperate, I just--
I didn't want no part of him.

1191
01:01:05,194 --> 01:01:08,631
Because my own people that I grew up
with, that I trusted, that I loved,

1192
01:01:08,698 --> 01:01:11,801
they were told that they couldn't
hang out with me anymore.

1193
01:01:11,868 --> 01:01:13,936
That's the one time
that I can honestly say

1194
01:01:14,003 --> 01:01:16,873
that I ever felt rejection
and it affected me.

1195
01:01:19,809 --> 01:01:21,411
GEORGE: He contacted me and said,
you know,

1196
01:01:21,477 --> 01:01:23,246
"I think I'm gonna have to pull the
deal."

1197
01:01:23,312 --> 01:01:26,149
And I looked at him and said,
"What are you talking about?"

1198
01:01:26,215 --> 01:01:28,184
He goes, "I have a problem
with my daughter.

1199
01:01:28,251 --> 01:01:32,021
She's adamantly
opposed to me taking this deal.

1200
01:01:32,088 --> 01:01:34,490
If she can't go along with this,
this isn't happening."

1201
01:01:34,557 --> 01:01:37,193
KAREN: When we had
that meeting in Quantico

1202
01:01:37,260 --> 01:01:40,630
and we sat down and I came out there,
I didn't know anything.

1203
01:01:40,697 --> 01:01:41,931
-Not one thing.
-SAMMY: Right.

1204
01:01:41,998 --> 01:01:43,599
Well, then I was forced to.

1205
01:01:43,666 --> 01:01:49,172
Now we're dealing with a situation where
there's a life or death situation now.

1206
01:01:49,238 --> 01:01:51,007
-Right.
-SAMMY: This isn't a game.

1207
01:01:51,074 --> 01:01:52,875
When you cooperate,
there can be people getting killed

1208
01:01:52,942 --> 01:01:54,711
and all kinds of (bleep) going on.

1209
01:01:54,777 --> 01:01:56,479
Some of the people
you're gonna be dealing with,

1210
01:01:56,546 --> 01:01:59,916
they could hug you, they could kiss
you, they could smile,

1211
01:01:59,982 --> 01:02:02,185
and they could
shoot you in the (bleep) head.

1212
01:02:02,251 --> 01:02:05,722
I had already known, a week before
my father told me he was gonna cooperate

1213
01:02:05,788 --> 01:02:07,490
but it didn't break to the world yet.

1214
01:02:07,557 --> 01:02:10,393
So I got on the plane with them
and they took us to Virginia,

1215
01:02:10,460 --> 01:02:12,061
which is FBI headquarters.

1216
01:02:12,128 --> 01:02:15,998
And he sat there and told me, "You
know, things are gonna come out."

1217
01:02:16,065 --> 01:02:17,567
And I'm like, okay.

1218
01:02:17,633 --> 01:02:19,035
He's like, "About murder."

1219
01:02:19,102 --> 01:02:20,403
Okay.

1220
01:02:20,470 --> 01:02:21,838
He's like, 19.

1221
01:02:21,904 --> 01:02:24,874
I'm like, okay, I didn't think it
was-- you know, that was lot.

1222
01:02:24,941 --> 01:02:28,377
But, um, I didn't question him,
I just listened.

1223
01:02:29,212 --> 01:02:32,215
And when I left the room that day,
I still wasn't on board.

1224
01:02:32,281 --> 01:02:34,317
I told him I will never
be on board with this.

1225
01:02:34,383 --> 01:02:38,354
GEORGE: We had to have a couple of
conversations to convince her,

1226
01:02:38,421 --> 01:02:39,989
to be able make that deal go through.

1227
01:02:40,056 --> 01:02:44,360
So that left a real impression on me,
just how important his family was.

1228
01:02:44,427 --> 01:02:45,995
MAN: Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

1229
01:02:46,062 --> 01:02:49,098
For years, he claims he was
John Gotti's hitman.

1230
01:02:49,165 --> 01:02:51,367
But now his Target is John Gotti
himself.

1231
01:02:51,434 --> 01:02:53,770
LARRY: When it hit the papers
that Sammy flipped,

1232
01:02:53,836 --> 01:03:00,343
there wasn't a person in that life
that wasn't totally shocked by it.

1233
01:03:00,409 --> 01:03:01,944
He's a rat!

1234
01:03:04,947 --> 01:03:06,315
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

1235
01:03:06,382 --> 01:03:07,517
Sammy "The Bull"
Gravano.

1236
01:03:07,583 --> 01:03:09,519
Sammy Gravano has killed 19 people.

1237
01:03:09,585 --> 01:03:12,622
His five-page government agreement
calls for him to testify

1238
01:03:12,688 --> 01:03:15,424
in exchange for a 20-year prison
term.

1239
01:03:17,693 --> 01:03:20,530
DEENA: This man took away our
fathers.

1240
01:03:22,732 --> 01:03:26,102
There's so many things
that I've missed

1241
01:03:26,169 --> 01:03:28,604
about my dad through the years.

1242
01:03:28,671 --> 01:03:31,007
My father won't be
at my daughter's wedding.

1243
01:03:31,073 --> 01:03:33,876
My father can't come over
my house for Sunday dinner.

1244
01:03:34,410 --> 01:03:38,648
There's so much I miss about
my father not being here.

1245
01:03:39,615 --> 01:03:42,785
I'm Laura Garofalo,
my father was Eddie Garofalo,

1246
01:03:42,852 --> 01:03:45,454
the 19th victim of
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano.

1247
01:03:47,256 --> 01:03:50,459
He was in construction,
demolition, excavation.

1248
01:03:51,594 --> 01:03:55,164
In the course of doing business
in New York in the construction world,

1249
01:03:55,231 --> 01:03:57,733
there was that underworld element.

1250
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,436
It was very hard for my father
to function because

1251
01:04:00,503 --> 01:04:04,307
so much of the construction industry
had a stranglehold from the mob

1252
01:04:04,373 --> 01:04:07,677
and so much of it then
was controlled by Gravano.

1253
01:04:08,211 --> 01:04:11,948
So because my father wouldn't
comply, he paid with his life.

1254
01:04:12,014 --> 01:04:14,517
He was crossing the street
to walk to his car

1255
01:04:14,584 --> 01:04:19,055
and two cars full of guys
opened fire on him and killed him.

1256
01:04:23,359 --> 01:04:25,494
TOMMY: The only way
organized crime exists---

1257
01:04:25,561 --> 01:04:28,998
there's only one reason it exists--
and that's on intimidation.

1258
01:04:29,065 --> 01:04:32,902
Because if you tell me to do something
and I'm not intimidated or afraid of you,

1259
01:04:32,969 --> 01:04:37,640
then what's the repercussions of me
not doing what you're asking me to do?

1260
01:04:37,707 --> 01:04:39,475
REPORTER: Mr. Gotti, what do you
think about the Times' report

1261
01:04:39,542 --> 01:04:41,410
that they're preparing
new charges against you?

1262
01:04:43,579 --> 01:04:47,283
My father's prosecution was
a win-at-all-costs prosecution.

1263
01:04:47,350 --> 01:04:49,418
He was facing five murders.

1264
01:04:49,485 --> 01:04:51,454
All in all, it was 13 counts.

1265
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:56,592
The prosecutors in the Eastern district
wanted the head of Gotti so badly

1266
01:04:56,659 --> 01:04:59,729
that they made a deal with Gravano.

1267
01:04:59,795 --> 01:05:02,498
He was Gotti's right hand.

1268
01:05:02,565 --> 01:05:05,268
He was the underboss of the
Gambino crime family.

1269
01:05:05,835 --> 01:05:10,006
This is the United States Department
of Justice and the rule of law

1270
01:05:10,072 --> 01:05:14,777
against the most famous gangster
in America and the mob.

1271
01:05:14,844 --> 01:05:18,047
The deal he got was a maximum penalty
of 20 years,

1272
01:05:18,114 --> 01:05:20,216
which he got five years sentenced.

1273
01:05:20,283 --> 01:05:22,585
JOHN M.: Sammy's a survivor.

1274
01:05:22,652 --> 01:05:26,355
He's got, like, 19 murders,
but at least nine lives.

1275
01:05:29,058 --> 01:05:31,294
LAURA: I mean, it was shocking,
it was absolutely shocking.

1276
01:05:31,861 --> 01:05:34,764
People do more time for one murder--
this is 19.

1277
01:05:34,830 --> 01:05:36,499
It was one more scam.

1278
01:05:36,565 --> 01:05:38,267
It was one more scheme.

1279
01:05:38,601 --> 01:05:41,070
He knew that there was
nobody else in the world

1280
01:05:41,137 --> 01:05:44,307
that the government wanted more than
John Joseph Gotti.

1281
01:05:44,373 --> 01:05:46,208
JOHN M.: Why did Sammy flip?

1282
01:05:46,275 --> 01:05:48,311
Well, Sammy's a hustler.

1283
01:05:48,377 --> 01:05:51,447
While everybody was looking at one angle,
he was looking at three other angles.

1284
01:05:51,514 --> 01:05:56,052
Sammy Gravano flipped because
Sammy Gravano is a self-centered man.

1285
01:05:56,118 --> 01:06:00,723
And when he got to prison, the
reality, his needs became far greater.

1286
01:06:00,790 --> 01:06:04,226
He couldn't do not one more day in
prison and he wasn't going to.

1287
01:06:04,293 --> 01:06:08,664
DIANE: So there's a word that you use
for people who turn, right?

1288
01:06:08,731 --> 01:06:09,999
Mm-hmm.

1289
01:06:10,766 --> 01:06:12,802
-Who cooperate.
-DIANE: Yeah.

1290
01:06:12,868 --> 01:06:14,303
Are you trying to goat me into the
word?

1291
01:06:14,370 --> 01:06:16,839
-"Rat," is that the word?
-DIANE: That's the word.

1292
01:06:16,906 --> 01:06:18,708
Are you a rat?

1293
01:06:21,210 --> 01:06:23,045
If that's the term you'd like to use.

1294
01:06:23,112 --> 01:06:25,081
I don't look at myself as that.

1295
01:06:25,147 --> 01:06:29,719
I look at it as-- I was betrayed,
I betrayed him.

1296
01:06:30,119 --> 01:06:31,721
That's what the mob is.

1297
01:06:33,389 --> 01:06:34,924
DIANE: Double-crosser?

1298
01:06:34,991 --> 01:06:36,959
SAMMY: John's the double-crosser.

1299
01:06:37,026 --> 01:06:39,195
I'm a master double-crosser.

1300
01:06:39,261 --> 01:06:41,497
We played chess, and he lost.

1301
01:06:43,933 --> 01:06:46,402
MAN: Here in New York,
the government's top mob witness

1302
01:06:46,469 --> 01:06:51,073
has begun testifying in the trial of
reputed crime boss John Gotti.

1303
01:06:51,140 --> 01:06:55,344
Everybody in that room is waiting for
one witness and one witness only.

1304
01:06:56,445 --> 01:06:58,948
SAMMY: I was real nervous
about testifying.

1305
01:06:59,015 --> 01:07:00,950
I'll never forget
walking through the door,

1306
01:07:01,017 --> 01:07:04,053
when the door opened
and then I came out,

1307
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:05,821
you couldn't hear anything.

1308
01:07:05,888 --> 01:07:08,624
I mean, the only thing I heard
was my own heart pumping away.

1309
01:07:09,592 --> 01:07:11,894
JOHN M.: He proved to be
an outstanding witness.

1310
01:07:11,961 --> 01:07:14,397
"Who was the boss of that family?"
"It was John Gotti."

1311
01:07:14,463 --> 01:07:16,065
"Do you see John Gotti
in this courtroom?"

1312
01:07:16,132 --> 01:07:17,800
"Yes, he's right there."

1313
01:07:17,867 --> 01:07:20,236
And, you know,
eye contact is made.

1314
01:07:20,302 --> 01:07:23,339
It's like there's laser beams
that go across between the two.

1315
01:07:23,406 --> 01:07:26,509
He had this icy glare...

1316
01:07:26,575 --> 01:07:30,413
that he was staring at me, to try to,
I guess, intimidate me with.

1317
01:07:30,479 --> 01:07:31,547
It didn't work.

1318
01:07:31,914 --> 01:07:35,851
JOHN M.: I think he must have been on
the stand for nine days, direct testimony,

1319
01:07:35,918 --> 01:07:40,523
and then brutal cross-examination,
which he was unflappable for.

1320
01:07:41,223 --> 01:07:44,727
There was more to come,
but you also knew the case was over.

1321
01:07:44,794 --> 01:07:47,263
MAN: It took six years and four
trials, but today,

1322
01:07:47,329 --> 01:07:51,534
federal prosecutors got a guilty
verdict against John Gotti.

1323
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,236
My father, John Gotti,
was found guilty on all counts.

1324
01:07:54,303 --> 01:07:56,939
I wasn't shocked by the outcome
of the case,

1325
01:07:57,006 --> 01:07:59,608
but the reality now set in
that he wasn't invincible.

1326
01:07:59,675 --> 01:08:02,945
The Teflon is gone,
The Don is covered with Velcro

1327
01:08:03,012 --> 01:08:05,281
and every charge in the indictment
stuck.

1328
01:08:07,416 --> 01:08:10,019
MAN: In New York today,
the crime boss, John Gotti,

1329
01:08:10,086 --> 01:08:14,023
has been sentenced to life in prison
with no parole.

1330
01:08:14,090 --> 01:08:17,660
When the word comes out that Gotti's
been sentenced to life without parole...

1331
01:08:17,726 --> 01:08:19,095
(crowd chanting)

1332
01:08:19,161 --> 01:08:21,363
...the crowd storms
the front of the courthouse.

1333
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:24,567
JOHN JR: It was supposed to be a
peaceful rally and it turned into a riot.

1334
01:08:24,633 --> 01:08:27,736
JOHN M.: They're rocking the U.S.
Marshals' cars in front,

1335
01:08:27,803 --> 01:08:30,139
smashing the roofs and
kicking in the windshields.

1336
01:08:30,206 --> 01:08:34,176
And there's literally a riot going on
about the outrage

1337
01:08:34,243 --> 01:08:36,145
that he should be sent to jail.

1338
01:08:36,212 --> 01:08:40,316
And you start to realize just how
upside down the world had become.

1339
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:43,953
LAWYER: I said it in the court,
I say it here:

1340
01:08:44,019 --> 01:08:46,889
our country is sick to the core

1341
01:08:46,956 --> 01:08:52,294
if it is willing to pay for
testimony, by literally,

1342
01:08:52,361 --> 01:08:55,898
absolving a person of
19 confessed murders.

1343
01:08:55,965 --> 01:08:58,434
My father is the last of the
Mohicans.

1344
01:08:58,501 --> 01:09:00,402
They don't make men like him anymore,
and they never will.

1345
01:09:01,770 --> 01:09:06,108
JOHN M.: We live in a society
that romanticizes those loners

1346
01:09:06,175 --> 01:09:08,544
who go up against authority.

1347
01:09:08,611 --> 01:09:12,848
DIANE: They have said you are
the single most important witness

1348
01:09:12,915 --> 01:09:15,618
ever to testify against the mob.

1349
01:09:15,985 --> 01:09:17,153
I think I am.

1350
01:09:17,219 --> 01:09:20,322
An underboss is the highest position
who's ever cooperated.

1351
01:09:20,389 --> 01:09:22,591
But I think I'm in a position of
being

1352
01:09:22,658 --> 01:09:25,528
the most knowledgeable underboss
who's cooperated.

1353
01:09:25,594 --> 01:09:28,230
Sammy helped me
shut out the rest of the family,

1354
01:09:28,297 --> 01:09:31,100
and bosses and underbosses
of the other families.

1355
01:09:31,167 --> 01:09:34,270
I think we totaled over 38
convictions.

1356
01:09:34,336 --> 01:09:38,607
He arguably led to the demise of
organized crime in New York.

1357
01:09:39,408 --> 01:09:43,045
JOHN M: Making the deal with Gravano
did not come without criticism.

1358
01:09:43,112 --> 01:09:47,183
There was blow back from the family
members of people that he killed.

1359
01:09:47,249 --> 01:09:50,319
LAURA: The feeling was
us against the behemoth.

1360
01:09:50,386 --> 01:09:52,621
What do we do?
We have no recourse.

1361
01:09:52,688 --> 01:09:54,690
They said this was okay.

1362
01:09:54,757 --> 01:09:58,093
They wrapped him in the American flag
and they sent him off.

1363
01:09:59,195 --> 01:10:00,596
SAMMY: It was a great deal.

1364
01:10:00,663 --> 01:10:03,399
Five years for 19 murders,
can't beat that.

1365
01:10:03,465 --> 01:10:05,167
DEENA: And from that day forward,

1366
01:10:05,234 --> 01:10:09,271
he continues to be pardoned
for the things that he has done.

1367
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:17,046
JOHN M.: When he got out
in the witness protection program

1368
01:10:17,112 --> 01:10:19,148
under his new identity,

1369
01:10:19,215 --> 01:10:21,417
he's living in a town
outside of Phoenix.

1370
01:10:22,284 --> 01:10:24,587
He's got a book out.

1371
01:10:24,653 --> 01:10:28,057
So, he's breaking all the rules
and he's making all the money.

1372
01:10:28,123 --> 01:10:30,926
There were laws in the place,
the "Son of Sam" law,

1373
01:10:30,993 --> 01:10:34,964
which protected us from him
profiting from his life of crime.

1374
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:38,367
How could a guy who admitted to
killing 19 people profit from that?

1375
01:10:38,434 --> 01:10:39,368
How can he write a book?

1376
01:10:39,969 --> 01:10:42,004
And we went ahead,
filed in Arizona.

1377
01:10:42,071 --> 01:10:44,039
So, you know,
we were vindicated.

1378
01:10:44,473 --> 01:10:47,643
It's funny, because in the end,
Sammy's always Sammy.

1379
01:10:48,577 --> 01:10:50,913
CURTIS: His son comes home one day
and says, "Dad, dad,

1380
01:10:50,980 --> 01:10:54,016
these kids, they're buying this Molly
and Ecstasy like no tomorrow."

1381
01:10:54,083 --> 01:10:55,317
And what does he do?

1382
01:10:55,384 --> 01:10:58,020
Rather than go back
a changed man to say,

1383
01:10:58,087 --> 01:11:01,557
"Hey, I'm a different guy...
I found the Lord..."

1384
01:11:01,624 --> 01:11:04,126
he goes back and
he schemes all over again.

1385
01:11:04,193 --> 01:11:07,830
Former mafia hitman,
Salvatore "Sammy The Bull" Gravano

1386
01:11:07,896 --> 01:11:10,266
has been arrested in Phoenix,
Arizona.

1387
01:11:10,332 --> 01:11:14,270
Police say Gravano financed
a statewide narcotics ring.

1388
01:11:24,913 --> 01:11:27,983
GERARD: Growing up,
people expected me to be violent.

1389
01:11:28,050 --> 01:11:32,421
People expected me to live up to
my father's reputation.

1390
01:11:33,856 --> 01:11:36,759
I got arrested once or twice growing
up.

1391
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:43,299
I wanted to do certain things
and go out and make him proud.

1392
01:11:43,365 --> 01:11:47,636
It was just the allure of being, you
know, of being bad.

1393
01:11:47,703 --> 01:11:50,973
-I never wanted that life for you.
- And I know that.

1394
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,543
You didn't come home and talk about
what you did on the streets--

1395
01:11:54,610 --> 01:11:55,944
And there's a reason for that.

1396
01:11:56,011 --> 01:12:01,016
I didn't want to inspire you to the
life, make you look up to the life.

1397
01:12:01,083 --> 01:12:05,654
Yeah, but you knew I wasn't gonna be a
doctor or a lawyer or something like that.

1398
01:12:05,721 --> 01:12:08,957
We don't have to be doctors
and we don't have to be lawyers.

1399
01:12:09,425 --> 01:12:10,659
We could be anything.

1400
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,562
I think, in an Italian people,

1401
01:12:13,629 --> 01:12:18,667
we always want our kids to be better
than us and do more than us.

1402
01:12:18,734 --> 01:12:19,968
Famously in The Godfather,

1403
01:12:20,035 --> 01:12:23,806
Don Corleone was very upset
when Michael came home from the army

1404
01:12:23,872 --> 01:12:27,009
and then ultimately ended up
in the family business.

1405
01:12:27,076 --> 01:12:28,610
What's bothering you?

1406
01:12:29,144 --> 01:12:31,013
I told you I can handle it,
I'll handle it.

1407
01:12:31,413 --> 01:12:33,849
I never wanted this for you.

1408
01:12:33,916 --> 01:12:38,253
When you have a famous parent,
you become a part of that famous parent

1409
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:39,955
Doors open to you everywhere.

1410
01:12:40,022 --> 01:12:43,459
But the stress
is tremendous because

1411
01:12:43,525 --> 01:12:47,863
there's only one person like your
father.

1412
01:12:47,930 --> 01:12:51,133
You're living under that shadow
from the time you're born.

1413
01:12:53,202 --> 01:12:55,104
KAREN: After my father cooperated,

1414
01:12:55,170 --> 01:12:58,340
my mother moved to Arizona with my
brother and I later followed.

1415
01:12:58,407 --> 01:13:01,510
CURTIS: The guy ended up going into
the witness protection program.

1416
01:13:01,577 --> 01:13:02,845
He's out in North Phoenix,

1417
01:13:02,911 --> 01:13:07,116
he's installing pools out in the
open, his family has a restaurant.

1418
01:13:07,182 --> 01:13:08,250
I was still angry.

1419
01:13:08,317 --> 01:13:10,252
Me and my father weren't in a good
place.

1420
01:13:10,319 --> 01:13:13,622
Everything that happened in Arizona,
it was like I was hung up on a lifestyle

1421
01:13:13,689 --> 01:13:17,326
that I couldn't let go
because I didn't understand.

1422
01:13:17,393 --> 01:13:19,595
I was hurt at the time and I was
confused.

1423
01:13:19,661 --> 01:13:23,232
My kids were devastated
by my cooperation.

1424
01:13:23,298 --> 01:13:25,033
They had to leave,
they were belittled,

1425
01:13:25,100 --> 01:13:28,003
They were just--
they shrunk to nothing.

1426
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:30,539
KAREN: At the time,
he had wrote a book.

1427
01:13:30,606 --> 01:13:35,611
His book was a New York Times bestseller
and everybody became interested.

1428
01:13:35,677 --> 01:13:37,746
I land in Arizona
and these people are like,

1429
01:13:37,813 --> 01:13:39,248
"Oh, my God, your father's
'Sammy the Bull,'

1430
01:13:39,314 --> 01:13:40,349
can we get an autograph?"

1431
01:13:40,416 --> 01:13:42,151
We kind of let
the wrong people around us.

1432
01:13:42,217 --> 01:13:44,153
And I wanted to join them

1433
01:13:44,219 --> 01:13:47,723
because I felt like being bad
is when you gain respect.

1434
01:13:47,790 --> 01:13:51,226
He was already a very well-known gangster
and, of course, they sought him out

1435
01:13:51,293 --> 01:13:53,162
and got to him through his son.

1436
01:13:53,228 --> 01:13:56,031
I just made poor decisions,
my brother made poor decisions.

1437
01:13:56,098 --> 01:14:00,803
And, um, at the time, we were
involved in some Ecstasy deals.

1438
01:14:00,869 --> 01:14:02,771
GERARD: Everybody I was
running around with

1439
01:14:02,838 --> 01:14:04,573
was telling everyone
that had two ears,

1440
01:14:05,507 --> 01:14:08,644
that this was
Sammy "The Bull's" Ecstasy ring.

1441
01:14:08,710 --> 01:14:10,112
That's all it took.

1442
01:14:10,179 --> 01:14:12,681
Former mafia hitman,
Salvatore "Sammy The Bull" Gravano

1443
01:14:12,748 --> 01:14:15,050
has been arrested in Phoenix,
Arizona.

1444
01:14:15,117 --> 01:14:19,688
Police say Gravano financed a statewide
narcotics ring that sold the drug Ecstasy.

1445
01:14:19,755 --> 01:14:22,090
Sammy "The Bull" always with
his beak in the trough said,

1446
01:14:22,157 --> 01:14:25,194
"Hey, what are these--
what do these kids out here know?"

1447
01:14:25,260 --> 01:14:26,795
I'm caught.

1448
01:14:26,862 --> 01:14:28,797
My son's in it,
my daughter's in it.

1449
01:14:28,864 --> 01:14:33,769
I become the focus of the thing
and it doubles and quadruples

1450
01:14:34,503 --> 01:14:36,205
in stature and everything.

1451
01:14:36,271 --> 01:14:39,975
So... I'm an Ecstasy King.

1452
01:14:51,687 --> 01:14:55,190
Sammy's explanation was that
he was actually trying to help them,

1453
01:14:55,257 --> 01:14:57,059
extricate themselves from that.

1454
01:14:57,125 --> 01:15:00,028
You got to say, well,
was he really trying to help his family

1455
01:15:00,095 --> 01:15:02,297
or is this the Sammy Gravano story,
which is,

1456
01:15:02,364 --> 01:15:04,366
"It wasn't me,
it was my children.

1457
01:15:04,433 --> 01:15:06,268
I was just trying to be the good
guy."

1458
01:15:06,335 --> 01:15:08,237
It's kind of what
he said about Gotti.

1459
01:15:08,303 --> 01:15:11,073
GEORGE: He was able to
make a deal to save them

1460
01:15:11,139 --> 01:15:14,009
and take the brunt of the punishment.

1461
01:15:14,843 --> 01:15:16,879
JOHN M.: His son gets sentenced
to nine years.

1462
01:15:16,945 --> 01:15:19,515
His daughter and his wife
are sentenced to probation.

1463
01:15:19,581 --> 01:15:21,884
He did 20 years for trying to
save my life.

1464
01:15:23,652 --> 01:15:27,589
Most fathers, I think-- I hope--
would do that for their son.

1465
01:15:27,656 --> 01:15:30,559
But that's a heavy burden
I live with, even though--

1466
01:15:30,626 --> 01:15:33,128
Don't let it be a heavy burden.

1467
01:15:33,195 --> 01:15:35,230
I did what I'm supposed to do as a
man.

1468
01:15:35,297 --> 01:15:36,832
Don't carry no burden.

1469
01:15:36,899 --> 01:15:38,967
But realize how much I love you.

1470
01:15:40,068 --> 01:15:43,405
Let's not make mistakes no more,
they're done.

1471
01:15:43,472 --> 01:15:45,007
The life is done.

1472
01:15:45,073 --> 01:15:48,043
I got to take that responsibility
that it did trickle down,

1473
01:15:48,110 --> 01:15:49,545
what I did hurt them.

1474
01:15:49,978 --> 01:15:52,614
So we all (bleep) up,
don't live with guilt.

1475
01:15:53,282 --> 01:15:54,816
We're going forward.

1476
01:15:54,883 --> 01:15:57,553
You made mistakes,
I made mistakes.

1477
01:15:57,619 --> 01:15:59,021
Everybody makes mistakes.

1478
01:15:59,087 --> 01:16:00,188
And I'm proud of you.

1479
01:16:01,657 --> 01:16:02,991
You're a man's man.

1480
01:16:03,058 --> 01:16:07,996
You've got four kids,
and, uh, and you're a man.

1481
01:16:08,063 --> 01:16:12,301
I just hope I can leave
the same impression on my kids.

1482
01:16:13,735 --> 01:16:15,070
You will.

1483
01:16:19,875 --> 01:16:25,047
SAMMY: I was the underboss of the most
powerful crime family in American history.

1484
01:16:25,113 --> 01:16:29,518
I was respected, loved,
dedicated, and feared.

1485
01:16:30,085 --> 01:16:33,055
Now look at Sammy "The Bull" Gravano,
he has a podcast,

1486
01:16:33,121 --> 01:16:38,026
he's battling with Michael Franzese,
the son of Sonny Franzese,

1487
01:16:38,093 --> 01:16:40,128
the stone-cold killer
in the Colombo family.

1488
01:16:40,195 --> 01:16:41,997
Do you have any idea what
you're talking about?

1489
01:16:42,064 --> 01:16:43,865
No, yeah-- no, do you?

1490
01:16:43,932 --> 01:16:46,868
So instead of shooting at one
another, they battle on podcasts.

1491
01:16:46,935 --> 01:16:50,472
Stop, your--
you're talking like a clown right now.

1492
01:16:50,539 --> 01:16:51,406
It's crazy!

1493
01:16:53,575 --> 01:16:57,112
I'm retired now,
I'm 76, March I'll be 77.

1494
01:16:58,647 --> 01:17:02,451
The podcast is going good,
we just put out a few more episodes.

1495
01:17:02,517 --> 01:17:04,987
JOHN JR.: Anyone saying anything
in New York?

1496
01:17:05,053 --> 01:17:06,555
KAREN: They watch it, they see it.

1497
01:17:06,622 --> 01:17:08,857
I mean, listen, one thing about
daddy,

1498
01:17:08,924 --> 01:17:10,459
whether people like him
or they don't like him,

1499
01:17:10,525 --> 01:17:12,628
they know what he's saying is
truthful.

1500
01:17:13,362 --> 01:17:16,832
DEENA: If I can have a voice
35 years later,

1501
01:17:17,332 --> 01:17:22,104
I can tell his subscribers
and people who listen to his podcasts,

1502
01:17:22,170 --> 01:17:24,006
not to glorify this man.

1503
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:27,776
He is not noble,
He is not a hero.

1504
01:17:28,276 --> 01:17:30,212
He's nothing but a sociopath.

1505
01:17:30,278 --> 01:17:32,981
It took me 20-something years
to get to this point,

1506
01:17:33,048 --> 01:17:36,585
to have a full understanding
and to actually sit back and go...

1507
01:17:36,652 --> 01:17:37,919
"I understand it all,

1508
01:17:37,986 --> 01:17:40,689
I respect the lifestyle you chose,
I understand why."

1509
01:17:40,756 --> 01:17:43,792
But I also knew you
as a father and a friend.

1510
01:17:43,859 --> 01:17:46,395
So that's, you know, how I choose
my relationship with you.

1511
01:17:52,934 --> 01:17:56,304
The podcast is actually something
that he monetizes from.

1512
01:17:56,371 --> 01:17:59,041
And, um, it's a subscriber service.

1513
01:17:59,107 --> 01:18:05,313
SAMMY: When I think back about my past,
I feel like I've lived three lifetimes.

1514
01:18:05,380 --> 01:18:08,850
He has this arena, he has this forum
where he's talking about it,

1515
01:18:08,917 --> 01:18:11,186
but what is the other side for him?

1516
01:18:11,787 --> 01:18:14,256
Is he sorry?
Is he remorseful?

1517
01:18:14,322 --> 01:18:15,891
Because I don't see that.

1518
01:18:15,957 --> 01:18:17,726
Where are his amends?

1519
01:18:17,793 --> 01:18:20,629
He is still glorifying this life.

1520
01:18:20,696 --> 01:18:22,397
When does he let it go?

1521
01:18:23,832 --> 01:18:28,470
SAMMY: Is there anything
that I feel I regret

1522
01:18:28,537 --> 01:18:30,072
and that I would do differently?

1523
01:18:30,138 --> 01:18:31,373
Of course.

1524
01:18:31,440 --> 01:18:34,342
At what point do you take accountability
for the lives that you destroyed?

1525
01:18:34,409 --> 01:18:37,546
No matter how I feel now,
I couldn't change what happened.

1526
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:41,183
It was ugly, but I know what people
want me to say.

1527
01:18:41,249 --> 01:18:43,485
It was so ugly,
would you change it?

1528
01:18:44,986 --> 01:18:46,822
Yes, the way I feel now.

1529
01:18:46,888 --> 01:18:50,225
But even looking now,
I couldn't.

1530
01:18:50,292 --> 01:18:52,694
Sammy is,
"I'm Cosa Nostra until I die.

1531
01:18:52,761 --> 01:18:54,730
Cosa Nostra's still part of me."

1532
01:18:54,796 --> 01:18:56,898
And I said,
"No, Sammy, that's not true.

1533
01:18:56,965 --> 01:18:58,533
We're not Cosa Nostra anymore.

1534
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,535
We might have believed in it
at one time.

1535
01:19:00,602 --> 01:19:04,272
But you can't say that,
you violated omertà, so did I."

1536
01:19:04,339 --> 01:19:05,841
I betrayed my oath.

1537
01:19:05,907 --> 01:19:08,477
I'm not in that life anymore
and neither are you.

1538
01:19:08,543 --> 01:19:10,145
DIANE: Did you love The Godfather?

1539
01:19:10,212 --> 01:19:12,013
I loved The Godfather.

1540
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:13,849
Is there part of you that misses it?

1541
01:19:14,449 --> 01:19:17,052
If it was what it is in that movie,

1542
01:19:17,119 --> 01:19:21,523
if it was total honor
and total respect...

1543
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:23,058
possibly.

1544
01:19:23,125 --> 01:19:27,963
But not what I've come to learn
what it was, what it is.

1545
01:19:28,029 --> 01:19:31,900
It's not what this is,
it's not the respect.

1546
01:19:31,967 --> 01:19:34,102
In this picture,
that's what it was supposed to be,

1547
01:19:34,169 --> 01:19:35,837
that's what it was supposed to mean.

1548
01:19:38,206 --> 01:19:40,742
ANTHONY: Sometimes I wish
I was still in that life.

1549
01:19:40,809 --> 01:19:43,845
I loved the, you know,
the respect I got,

1550
01:19:43,912 --> 01:19:45,580
I loved sitting in the front row.

1551
01:19:45,647 --> 01:19:47,716
I can't afford
the front row anymore.

1552
01:19:48,650 --> 01:19:50,218
-Grandpa.
-You're right, there's grandpa.

1553
01:19:50,285 --> 01:19:51,286
"Fat Andy."

1554
01:19:51,353 --> 01:19:54,256
I know you always get mad
when I say sometimes I miss the life.

1555
01:19:54,322 --> 01:19:56,158
You go, "What do you miss about it?"

1556
01:19:56,224 --> 01:19:58,460
TONI: You know,
I look at these pictures and--

1557
01:19:58,527 --> 01:20:01,029
Here, look at this picture, this is when
I used to take you and your brother

1558
01:20:01,096 --> 01:20:02,430
every year to see Santa Claus.

1559
01:20:02,497 --> 01:20:05,667
Well, not every year, unfortunately,
I only took you three times.

1560
01:20:05,734 --> 01:20:08,904
That's the life that I wish that
we could have continued living.

1561
01:20:08,970 --> 01:20:10,605
And it just wasn't--

1562
01:20:10,939 --> 01:20:12,374
It wasn't meant to be.

1563
01:20:13,508 --> 01:20:16,478
GEORGE: I think a lot of them wondered
to this day what it was all about

1564
01:20:16,545 --> 01:20:18,914
and was it really as worthwhile
as they thought.

1565
01:20:18,980 --> 01:20:21,483
Because the fabric just
disintegrated.

1566
01:20:22,450 --> 01:20:26,521
There really was never this loyalty,
there really was never this ethos.

1567
01:20:26,588 --> 01:20:28,757
It was really all about the
individual.

1568
01:20:29,524 --> 01:20:30,792
DIANE: Are you a good man?

1569
01:20:30,859 --> 01:20:32,527
I think I'm a decent man.

1570
01:20:34,563 --> 01:20:37,098
DIANE:You don't worry about
a final judgment?

1571
01:20:37,732 --> 01:20:40,435
SAMMY: I'll worry about that,
that day.

1572
01:20:40,502 --> 01:20:42,037
And we'll see what happens.

1573
01:20:42,103 --> 01:20:45,507
♪♪