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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[exhales]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[grunts, cries]

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[man] What's up, Stutz?

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[Stutz] Hi, Jonah.

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[chuckles]

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-[Stutz] Okay, entertain me.
-[both laugh]

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[Jonah] That's actually what you say
when I sit down.

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It's what I say to everybody.

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Yeah, when we have a therapy session
that's not filmed for a movie.

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[Stutz laughs]

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The… the other thing you… you say
that always cracks me up, which is great,

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is, "You better not come in here
and dump all your shit on me."

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No, yeah, you know,
you've been dumping it on me for years,

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and I'm tired.

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[Jonah chuckles]

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Well, here we are.

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Why do you think
I'm making this movie about you?

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I think it's… it's my ideas.

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I… I think my ideas had an effect on you,

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and I think you wanted
to expose other people to the ideas.

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And maybe…

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I don't know, maybe it's just an attempt
to gain control over me, or…

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[Jonah laughs]

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I'm not sure. Why did you?

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Yeah, I have decided to make this
because I want to present your tools

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and the teachings of you,
Phil Stutz, my therapist,

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in a way that allows people to access them

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and use them
to make their own life better.

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So I thought
we would just film one session in one day

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and cover some of your tools

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that have been most helpful
for me in my life.

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I think that's good.

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And do it in a way that also honors,

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um, the life of somebody
that I deeply care about and respect.

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Okay.

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But can you be funny
once in a while? Just…

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-[laughs]
-["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

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[Jonah] What's usually the first question
you ask a new patient?

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The first thing I ask them is,
"What do you want? Why are you here?"

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The average shrink will say,
"Don't intrude on the patient's process."

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"They will come up with the answers
when they're ready."

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That sucks. That's not acceptable.

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When I got into psychiatry,
the model was, "I'm neutral."

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"I'm just watching.
I have no dog in this fight."

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It was a very slow process,
and there was a lot of suffering.

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You know me, my reaction will be,

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"Then go fuck yourself.
Are you kidding me?"

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[laughs]

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If I'm dealing with someone
with depression like that,

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who's afraid won't recover,

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I say, "Do what the fuck I tell you.
Do exactly what I tell you."

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"I guarantee you'll feel better.
Guarantee, 100%. It's on me."

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[Jonah] When I walked into your office,
we sat down,

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and you were just like,
"Here's what you should do."

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You gave me some form of action.
You gave me a tool.

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Yeah, it's… it's imperative.

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I wanted speed in this.

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Not speed to cure somebody in a week.
That's impossible.

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But I wanted them to feel some change,

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some forward motion.

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It gives them hope.

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It's like, "Oh, shit,
that's actually possible."

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So what are the tools?

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A tool is something that can change
your state, your inner state,

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immediately, in real time.

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It takes an experience
that's normally unpleasant,

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then it turns it into an opportunity.

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Tools change your mood

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and then just give you a sense of hope
that that won't be your mood forever.

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[Stutz] That's correct.

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[Jonah] It's basically
a real-time visualization exercise

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you do in your head at that moment.

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Yeah. So in that sense, I'm a teacher.

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I'm teaching the person how to use it
and also teach them when to do it.

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All of your patients, myself included,
we have all these note cards.

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[Stutz laughs]

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[Jonah] And they're drawings
of the tools that you do in our sessions

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that we take home and keep.

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[Stutz] I tend to think in visual terms.

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So I started drawing these cards
really for myself,

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but it helped the patients tremendously.

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The power of the cards is that
they turn big ideas into simple images.

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It was a way of communicating
with the patient

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that I actually felt
was more powerful than using words.

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The moment they take out the card,

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there's a connection
between the two of us. There's a bond.

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Yeah, we have
a uniquely personal relationship.

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So much so that you're letting me
make a film about you.

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That is something I've never experienced
in the therapeutic world.

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And, ultimately,

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my life has gotten immeasurably better
as a result of working with you,

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and so, if it worked for me,
maybe it will work for other people.

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-[alarm blares]
-Um…

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Oh, yeah. Time for medicine.

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-Time for what?
-[Jonah] Time to take your medicine.

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-Oh, thanks.
-[Jonah] The alarm went off.

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[Stutz] Oh, shit.

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[grunts]

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Jonah, you want to do
some Parkinson's drugs with me?

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[Jonah laughs]

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I kicked the stuff years ago, man.

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[Stutz] You know, when I was a kid,
when I was using drugs,

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if you ever told me, "50 years hence
you'd be taking all this medicine…"

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So that's all medicine
for your Parkinson's?

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Yeah.

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With Parkinson's, the biggest thing is,
and there's something good about this,

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you have to preplan
a lot of little things.

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When I have to get out of bed,

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I have to go through contortions
to get out of the bed.

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The hardest thing for me in life
is getting out of bed in the morning.

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-But for very different reasons.
-For different… [chuckles] Yeah.

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So, before meeting you, my experience
with therapy was very traditional

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in the sense of I would be talking

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and the person would say,
"How does that feel?"

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-Or, "Interesting." [laughs]
-[Stutz] Right.

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Basically keeping me
at a massive distance.

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Yeah.

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[Jonah] And I was thinking about how,
in traditional therapy,

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you're paying this person, and you save
all of your problems for them,

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and they just listen,

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and your friends, who are idiots,

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give you advice.

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-[Stutz] Yes.
-Unsolicited.

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-[Stutz] Yes.
-And you want your friends just to listen.

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[laughs]

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And you want your therapist
to give you advice.

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Here's the thing.

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The shrinks,
it's not that they don't want to help you.

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It's really not.

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But for me, I always felt
there was something missing.

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So a tool is a bridge

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between what you realize the problem is
and the cause of the problem

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to over here,

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actually gaining at least some control
over the symptom.

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It all has to do with possibility.

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And not a bullshit definition
of possibility.

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Possibility means
you feel yourself reacting differently.

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It sounds, um…

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What do you call it? Trite.
But it's actually the truth.

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[Jonah] One of the first things
you got me working on was my life force.

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That was such an immediate thing
that can change your life

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and something that I think
anyone can easily latch onto.

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And it was the first step for me

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in beginning the process
of getting better.

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Yeah, that's correct.
Here's the classic thing that happens.

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A guy's depressed,
he comes into my office, and he says,

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"I know my habits are shit."

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"I… I… I know I'm undisciplined.
I know I'm lazy."

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"But if I only knew
what I was supposed to be doing,

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what my mission was in life, essentially,
I'd be like I was shot out of a gun."

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"But I don't know
what I'm supposed to be doing,

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so I'm just gonna be lazy and do nothing."

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Then, from that,
obviously comes the depression.

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There's something
that… that will apply to you

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and to anybody else
who doesn't have a sense of direction

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or doesn't know what they should do next,

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and the answer is,
you can always work on your life force.

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[piano music plays]

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The only way to find out what
you should be doing, like who you are,

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is to activate your life force,

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because your life force
is the only part of you

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that actually is capable
of guiding you when you're lost.

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If you think of it as a pyramid,
there's three levels of the life force.

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The bottom level is your relationship
with your physical body.

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The second layer
is your relationship with other people.

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And the highest level
is your relationship with yourself.

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The bottom step is your relationship
to your physical body.

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All you gotta do is get your body
working better, and it always works.

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The most classic thing
is they're not exercising.

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Diet is another one,

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and sleeping.

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So what percentage of that stuff

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is what makes you
actually feel better at first?

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Well, when it starts out,

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it's probably 85%.

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It's very high.

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[Jonah] How fucking crazy is that?

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When I was a kid,

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exercise and diet
was framed to me in like,

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"There's something wrong
with how you look."

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But never once was exercise or diet

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propositioned to me
in terms of mental health.

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I just wish
that was presented to people differently.

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Yeah.

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[Jonah] Because, for me,

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that caused a lot of problems

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and even problems with me and my mom.

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I really met her,
like, with an attitude of,

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"Fuck you, I don't want to do that,

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because you're saying
there's something wrong with me."

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Yeah? Explain that.

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Um, I can, but I'm not gonna go into it,
'cause this movie is about you, not me.

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But what if I said
the more you elaborate on it,

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the easier it's gonna be
for me to take some chances.

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Did you ever think of it like that?

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I would say
you should make a movie about me,

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instead of me making a movie about you.

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[both laugh]

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Yeah, that's a good one.

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Okay. So that's the first level.

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The next one
is your relationship to other people,

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'cause when people get depressed,

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it's not that they end
their relationships.

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It's like a ship disappearing
over the horizon.

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They start to get pulled back,
away from their life,

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and relationships are like--

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You know those things when you're climbing
a mountain, pounding those pitons,

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it's like a handhold.

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So your relationships are like handholds
to let yourself get pulled back into life.

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The key of it
is you have to take the initiative.

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If you're waiting for them to the take
the initiative, you don't understand.

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You could invite somebody out to lunch
that you don't find interesting,

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it doesn't matter, it will
affect you anyway, in a positive way.

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That person represents
the whole human race, symbolically.

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So that's the middle tier,

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and the highest tier
is your relationship with yourself.

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The best way to say it is to get yourself
in a relationship with your unconscious,

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because nobody knows
what's in their unconscious

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unless they activate it.

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And one trick about this is writing.

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It's really a magical thing.

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You enhance your relationship
with yourself by writing.

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Some people say, "Well, write what?"

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"I'm not interesting.
I'm not a writer." It doesn't matter.

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If you start to write,
the writing is like a mirror.

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It reflects what's going on
in your unconscious,

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and things will come out
if you write in journal form

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that you didn't know that you knew.

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These are the three levels
of the life force.

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If you're lost,
don't try to figure it out.

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Let it go
and work on your life force first.

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It's about passion.

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Increasing your life force

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so you can find out
what you're really passionate about.

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But step one is to be passionate
about connecting to your own life force,

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and anybody can do that.

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[Jonah] If I just do that pyramid,
everything else seems to fall into place?

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00:12:12,815 --> 00:12:14,650
It will.
Everything else will fall in place.

241
00:12:17,653 --> 00:12:19,947
[Jonah] So how do you come up
with this stuff?

242
00:12:20,489 --> 00:12:23,909
Well, I once had a supervisor--
I was very young.

243
00:12:23,993 --> 00:12:25,870
I didn't even have my own practice yet.

244
00:12:25,953 --> 00:12:29,081
I'm talking to people about
what happened 30 years ago in their life

245
00:12:29,165 --> 00:12:31,625
or what was the cause of their problem.

246
00:12:31,709 --> 00:12:33,669
They would walk out
the same way they walked in,

247
00:12:33,753 --> 00:12:36,130
feeling like shit and basically hopeless.

248
00:12:36,630 --> 00:12:37,673
So I said to him,

249
00:12:37,757 --> 00:12:41,844
"Is there anything we can do
so that they can feel better,

250
00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:43,471
feel something at least, sooner?"

251
00:12:43,554 --> 00:12:46,307
And the guy…
[chuckles] The guy says to me,

252
00:12:46,932 --> 00:12:48,809
"Don't you dare," he says.

253
00:12:48,893 --> 00:12:52,521
It was like somebody who fundamentally
didn't understand the human condition.

254
00:12:53,773 --> 00:12:56,692
I said, "Wait, we have to do something
right at the moment."

255
00:12:56,776 --> 00:12:59,278
It doesn't have to solve
all their problems,

256
00:12:59,361 --> 00:13:04,658
but you have to give somebody the feeling
that they can change right now.

257
00:13:04,742 --> 00:13:07,077
I didn't want people walking out
of my office with nothing.

258
00:13:07,161 --> 00:13:10,873
Did you ever worry, with that strategy,
you'd give them the wrong piece of action?

259
00:13:10,956 --> 00:13:11,791
No.

260
00:13:12,583 --> 00:13:15,878
In this area, as I always say,

261
00:13:15,961 --> 00:13:19,089
I'm just a regular person,
nothing unusual, except for this.

262
00:13:19,173 --> 00:13:22,384
I zoom in on you,
and I block out everything else.

263
00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:24,762
Since I was a little kid,
people have always walked up to me

264
00:13:24,845 --> 00:13:26,430
and told me their problems. A little kid.

265
00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:29,642
I would be ten years old,
and a grown man would come up to me.

266
00:13:29,725 --> 00:13:32,978
Most of them I didn't even know.
They're just pouring their hearts out.

267
00:13:33,854 --> 00:13:35,564
Who knows where that comes from.

268
00:13:36,065 --> 00:13:37,566
[melancholic music plays]

269
00:13:39,944 --> 00:13:43,906
I was in the Bronx till I was five.
Then we moved down to Manhattan.

270
00:13:43,989 --> 00:13:45,199
[Jonah] Where in Manhattan?

271
00:13:45,282 --> 00:13:49,286
The first place was 78th and Broadway.
215 West 78th Street.

272
00:13:49,912 --> 00:13:52,164
It was regular,
middle-class, working people.

273
00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:55,125
My father was a very nice guy.

274
00:13:55,209 --> 00:13:57,169
He was loud, opinionated.

275
00:13:57,253 --> 00:13:59,213
He loved to entertain.

276
00:13:59,296 --> 00:14:03,259
If it was up to him, he would have people
over to the house every single night,

277
00:14:04,134 --> 00:14:05,636
and she hated it.

278
00:14:06,387 --> 00:14:10,474
My mother told me, she said,
on a beautiful sunny day in the Bronx,

279
00:14:10,558 --> 00:14:12,977
a trillion kids
out playing in the streets,

280
00:14:13,477 --> 00:14:17,690
she told me her favorite thing
was to stay indoors and read a book.

281
00:14:18,357 --> 00:14:21,110
Her thing was, "Stay off my case.
Stay away from me."

282
00:14:21,193 --> 00:14:24,822
"I want to get lost in this book
because life is too painful."

283
00:14:24,905 --> 00:14:27,616
"I don't wanna deal with life.
I wanna deal with this book."

284
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:31,078
So you can see these two people,
there was big problems.

285
00:14:31,161 --> 00:14:32,997
[Jonah] What time period? The '50s?

286
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,127
Yeah. That was, like, uh… '56.

287
00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:39,295
It's probably…

288
00:14:40,045 --> 00:14:41,964
Let's see, he-- When did he die?

289
00:14:43,883 --> 00:14:45,801
[melancholic music continues]

290
00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:49,638
[Jonah] What was your brother's name
who passed away?

291
00:14:49,722 --> 00:14:52,516
[Stutz] His name was Eddie.
The one that died, yeah.

292
00:14:53,475 --> 00:14:54,810
They knew immediately.

293
00:14:54,894 --> 00:14:59,481
It was a certain kind of tumor
that has a certain kind of rash, I think.

294
00:14:59,565 --> 00:15:02,902
The doctor, he told me years later,

295
00:15:02,985 --> 00:15:06,405
he said he knew the moment
he walked into the room what it was.

296
00:15:07,072 --> 00:15:10,200
But my parents didn't tell us.
It was a mistake.

297
00:15:10,701 --> 00:15:13,287
[Jonah] How old are you when he dies?
You're nine?

298
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:14,872
Yeah, I was nine. Yeah.

299
00:15:14,955 --> 00:15:16,206
[Jonah] And he was three?

300
00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:18,542
He was three, yeah.

301
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,421
I would go into the bathroom.

302
00:15:22,504 --> 00:15:25,424
I remember,
I'd put one foot up on the toilet bowl,

303
00:15:25,507 --> 00:15:28,636
like I was some kind of a medieval knight
or something,

304
00:15:28,719 --> 00:15:31,263
and I talked to God, and I said to God,

305
00:15:31,347 --> 00:15:35,184
"If you let him live,
I will believe in you."

306
00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:39,063
"If you don't, I won't."
Obviously, I had to overcome that.

307
00:15:39,146 --> 00:15:41,982
Any time I'm in New York,
I try to go past that building.

308
00:15:42,066 --> 00:15:44,109
I like to stand in the spot

309
00:15:44,193 --> 00:15:46,695
where we were standing
when my father came up to us.

310
00:15:46,779 --> 00:15:49,740
My mother gets out of the cab

311
00:15:49,823 --> 00:15:52,993
and just walks right into the building
and takes the elevator upstairs.

312
00:15:53,077 --> 00:15:54,703
She didn't even look at us.

313
00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:57,957
Seriously, I asked my mother,
"Can I go back to school?"

314
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,501
And she said,
"Yeah, you can do anything you want."

315
00:16:01,001 --> 00:16:01,835
And I did.

316
00:16:02,461 --> 00:16:04,797
And I think that was part of my denial.

317
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,051
Everybody was moving quickly
to deny what was happening.

318
00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:14,640
Everybody was avidly
not accepting what was going on.

319
00:16:15,641 --> 00:16:18,602
That was Part X. Part X was in my mind

320
00:16:20,062 --> 00:16:21,689
before I understood any of this.

321
00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:23,774
[melancholic music continues]

322
00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:28,988
[Jonah] Part X is such a major part
of understanding how your tools work,

323
00:16:29,071 --> 00:16:31,073
so I wanted to talk about that.

324
00:16:31,573 --> 00:16:34,076
So, when adversity comes,

325
00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:36,412
it's an opportunity for you to--

326
00:16:36,495 --> 00:16:39,415
At that moment,
you're gonna face Part X directly.

327
00:16:39,498 --> 00:16:41,959
Part X is the judgmental part of you,

328
00:16:42,042 --> 00:16:44,461
the antisocial part of you.

329
00:16:44,545 --> 00:16:47,047
It's an invisible… force

330
00:16:47,131 --> 00:16:50,801
that wants to keep you
from changing or growing.

331
00:16:50,884 --> 00:16:53,262
It wants to block your evolution.

332
00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:55,514
It wants to block your potential.

333
00:16:56,223 --> 00:16:58,017
It wants to fuck up your shit.

334
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,311
So Part X would be the villain

335
00:17:01,395 --> 00:17:03,647
in the story of being a person.

336
00:17:03,731 --> 00:17:08,110
The tools are what the hero on the journey
can use to fight the villain.

337
00:17:08,193 --> 00:17:11,530
Yes. Part X is the voice of impossibility.

338
00:17:12,114 --> 00:17:15,784
Whatever it is you think you need to do,
it's gonna tell you that's impossible.

339
00:17:16,493 --> 00:17:17,369
"Give up."

340
00:17:17,453 --> 00:17:22,541
It gives you a very specific dossier
about who you are, what you're capable of.

341
00:17:22,624 --> 00:17:25,836
And it creates
this, like, primal fear in human beings.

342
00:17:26,628 --> 00:17:28,589
What does your Part X say to you?

343
00:17:28,672 --> 00:17:30,966
It makes me feel like I'm wasting time.

344
00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:32,968
It tells me I've invented all this stuff,

345
00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:36,638
and the stuff is great,
I'm very confident, but it'll never--

346
00:17:36,722 --> 00:17:39,141
It won't spread deeply enough
into the culture.

347
00:17:39,224 --> 00:17:42,102
[Jonah] So how can people
get rid of Part X?

348
00:17:42,186 --> 00:17:43,145
You can't.

349
00:17:43,228 --> 00:17:47,107
You can defeat him temporarily,
but he's always gonna keep coming back.

350
00:17:47,191 --> 00:17:52,237
That's why you have three aspects
of reality that nobody gets to avoid.

351
00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:55,532
Pain, uncertainty,

352
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,493
and constant work.

353
00:17:58,035 --> 00:18:00,162
So those are things
you're just gonna have to live with,

354
00:18:00,245 --> 00:18:01,371
no matter what.

355
00:18:01,872 --> 00:18:04,958
If it did work like that,
if you could banish Part X,

356
00:18:05,042 --> 00:18:06,752
then there'd be no further progress.

357
00:18:06,835 --> 00:18:13,092
So if this is a story, the main character
needs Part X, needs the villain,

358
00:18:13,175 --> 00:18:17,513
because if the main character
doesn't have to overcome a villain,

359
00:18:17,596 --> 00:18:18,472
there's no story.

360
00:18:18,555 --> 00:18:19,890
-[Stutz] Right.
-There's no growth.

361
00:18:19,973 --> 00:18:23,185
There's no change. There's no bravery.
There's no courageousness.

362
00:18:23,727 --> 00:18:27,064
We need the negativity of Part X,
or else we don't grow.

363
00:18:27,147 --> 00:18:28,273
[Stutz] Yeah, that's correct.

364
00:18:28,357 --> 00:18:31,735
It doesn't mean
you can't, um, work very hard at a goal.

365
00:18:31,819 --> 00:18:33,529
It doesn't mean you can't succeed.

366
00:18:33,612 --> 00:18:36,782
But if you wanna be happy--
'Cause that won't make you happy.

367
00:18:36,865 --> 00:18:39,159
What will make you happy is the process.

368
00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:43,497
You have to learn how to love the process
of dealing with those three things.

369
00:18:44,414 --> 00:18:46,250
That's where the tools come in.

370
00:18:46,333 --> 00:18:49,962
When it appears, you can identify it,

371
00:18:50,045 --> 00:18:53,715
and then, you can use a tool on it
to nullify it.

372
00:18:55,175 --> 00:18:58,345
If you can teach someone to do that,
they can change their whole life.

373
00:18:58,428 --> 00:19:01,974
Because the highest creative expression
for a human being

374
00:19:02,057 --> 00:19:05,936
is to be able to create something new
right in the face of adversity,

375
00:19:06,019 --> 00:19:09,606
and the worse the adversity,
the greater the opportunity.

376
00:19:12,442 --> 00:19:14,069
[melancholic music ends]

377
00:19:19,825 --> 00:19:23,328
Finding out that he'd died was like…

378
00:19:23,412 --> 00:19:25,873
It was like discovering a new world.

379
00:19:25,956 --> 00:19:29,585
And I said, "Wow,
that could happen to me? I'm just a kid."

380
00:19:29,668 --> 00:19:31,879
That was one of the biggest effects
it had on me,

381
00:19:31,962 --> 00:19:34,089
besides the fact
that my parents collapsed.

382
00:19:34,798 --> 00:19:37,342
They couldn't quite function
as parents emotionally.

383
00:19:37,426 --> 00:19:38,927
They just couldn't do it.

384
00:19:39,428 --> 00:19:40,262
[Jonah] Do you…

385
00:19:40,929 --> 00:19:41,972
Can you blame them?

386
00:19:42,472 --> 00:19:44,600
No, I've never blamed them for that.

387
00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:45,976
Thank God.

388
00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:48,312
Yeah.

389
00:19:49,354 --> 00:19:52,316
It changed my whole life,
because everything had a double meaning.

390
00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:56,945
If I'd go to play softball or something
and I had a time to be back for dinner,

391
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:57,863
if I was like--

392
00:19:57,946 --> 00:20:01,742
I swear, if I was one minute late,
they would just go nuts.

393
00:20:01,825 --> 00:20:03,452
Childhood was over.

394
00:20:03,952 --> 00:20:06,496
Everything was serious.
You didn't want to fuck it up.

395
00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:12,794
His death became this giant weight
that I had to carry around,

396
00:20:12,878 --> 00:20:15,881
but nobody would admit
the fucking weight was there.

397
00:20:17,507 --> 00:20:21,303
I'll never forget this.
A friend of mine, he was badly hurt.

398
00:20:21,386 --> 00:20:23,680
I went with my father
to visit him in the hospital,

399
00:20:23,764 --> 00:20:27,142
and on the way out,
my father turns around, and he says,

400
00:20:27,226 --> 00:20:29,228
"That's the only profession."

401
00:20:29,311 --> 00:20:32,231
Meaning, "If you do anything else
but become a doctor,

402
00:20:32,314 --> 00:20:34,191
you're persona non grata over here."

403
00:20:34,274 --> 00:20:36,944
"I love you,
but if you don't become a doctor,

404
00:20:37,027 --> 00:20:38,403
I'll never respect you."

405
00:20:39,154 --> 00:20:43,408
He and my mother were both atheists,
so they had nothing to fall back on.

406
00:20:43,492 --> 00:20:46,578
It was a fight against death,
and if I didn't join the fight,

407
00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:49,164
the whole family was gonna fall apart.

408
00:20:49,248 --> 00:20:54,002
Right, so you had a responsibility
to satiate their nerves and anxiety.

409
00:20:54,586 --> 00:20:56,213
You became their therapist.

410
00:20:57,589 --> 00:20:59,675
That's right. That's exactly right.

411
00:21:01,635 --> 00:21:04,429
So they had nothing in terms of, uh…

412
00:21:05,597 --> 00:21:06,473
[Jonah] Faith?

413
00:21:06,556 --> 00:21:09,726
Yeah, in terms of that would support them
in having any faith.

414
00:21:10,227 --> 00:21:14,189
They only had one thing
that could lead to faith,

415
00:21:14,731 --> 00:21:15,691
and that was me.

416
00:21:17,401 --> 00:21:19,820
You see how these things get passed down.

417
00:21:20,445 --> 00:21:22,656
And I… I tried my best.

418
00:21:22,739 --> 00:21:24,908
Total failure, obviously. [chuckles]

419
00:21:25,659 --> 00:21:28,328
I… I… I guess I did do one thing.

420
00:21:28,412 --> 00:21:29,621
I became a doctor.

421
00:21:31,581 --> 00:21:32,416
So, um…

422
00:21:37,045 --> 00:21:40,299
So at least maybe something constructive
came out of it.

423
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:44,136
Beginning to see patients
was like a joke for me.

424
00:21:45,262 --> 00:21:48,724
It was just a change of venue.
I had done it so much.

425
00:21:51,476 --> 00:21:54,604
And I wasn't bad at it,
even when I was 12.

426
00:21:55,939 --> 00:21:56,773
[Jonah] Hmm.

427
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,234
[Stutz] Yeah.

428
00:22:02,195 --> 00:22:04,823
Hey, are we gonna continue
these sessions a few times a week

429
00:22:04,906 --> 00:22:06,616
where I'm the patient? [chuckles]

430
00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:08,076
[laughs]

431
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,579
It'd be nice
if you answered more of these questions.

432
00:22:10,662 --> 00:22:13,957
In fact, it would be nice
if you answered even one of them.

433
00:22:15,417 --> 00:22:16,543
Um…

434
00:22:16,626 --> 00:22:19,629
We talked about my brother.
Can we talk about yours?

435
00:22:20,130 --> 00:22:22,215
It must have stirred up something in you.

436
00:22:22,966 --> 00:22:23,925
[Jonah] Well…

437
00:22:25,635 --> 00:22:26,553
Hmm.

438
00:22:31,975 --> 00:22:35,020
No, I-- No, we're not gonna get
into that, um…

439
00:22:36,313 --> 00:22:37,147
[Stutz] Okay.

440
00:22:38,857 --> 00:22:41,902
I think I should take a break.
What time-- Oh, shit. Huh.

441
00:22:41,985 --> 00:22:42,819
[Jonah] Yeah.

442
00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:44,446
Yeah.

443
00:22:45,238 --> 00:22:46,656
Dude, that was amazing.

444
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:48,658
I feel fried.

445
00:22:48,742 --> 00:22:52,371
Yeah, you know, I told you
to ask easier questions. It's on you.

446
00:22:52,454 --> 00:22:53,330
[Jonah laughs]

447
00:22:53,413 --> 00:22:55,916
Do you want my notes
on your directing or acting?

448
00:22:55,999 --> 00:22:58,043
[Jonah laughs] Save it for my session.

449
00:22:58,126 --> 00:23:00,128
[piano music plays]

450
00:23:29,241 --> 00:23:31,243
[piano music continues]

451
00:23:37,666 --> 00:23:39,251
[exhales deeply]

452
00:24:02,524 --> 00:24:05,277
[laughs] What is taking so long, dude?

453
00:24:07,195 --> 00:24:08,405
[door opens]

454
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:12,033
[door closes]

455
00:24:16,246 --> 00:24:17,247
Watch the tracks.

456
00:24:18,665 --> 00:24:19,833
[Stutz] You're in this too?

457
00:24:19,916 --> 00:24:22,544
-[clattering]
-[Jonah] Yeah. Oh, shit. [chuckles]

458
00:24:22,627 --> 00:24:23,462
[Stutz chuckles]

459
00:24:24,754 --> 00:24:26,631
-How are you?
-[Jonah] Good to see ya.

460
00:24:30,385 --> 00:24:33,638
I'm gonna use a tool first. Is that okay?

461
00:24:33,722 --> 00:24:34,723
Yeah, absolutely.

462
00:24:34,806 --> 00:24:37,767
[Jonah inhales, exhales]

463
00:24:48,612 --> 00:24:49,988
[Jonah exhales]

464
00:24:52,532 --> 00:24:54,034
Okay. [inhales]

465
00:24:54,784 --> 00:24:56,161
[Jonah exhales deeply]

466
00:24:59,206 --> 00:25:04,211
I feel like making this movie
is very complicated for a lot of reasons.

467
00:25:04,753 --> 00:25:06,838
You're my therapist,

468
00:25:06,922 --> 00:25:09,341
and if I was having trouble
with something,

469
00:25:10,258 --> 00:25:12,886
you'd be who I would talk to about it.

470
00:25:12,969 --> 00:25:13,929
[Stutz] Mm-hmm.

471
00:25:14,012 --> 00:25:17,891
[Jonah] But then when that feeling
comes up about this movie,

472
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,394
I'm hesitant, and I stop it,

473
00:25:22,270 --> 00:25:24,814
because this film is about you,

474
00:25:25,315 --> 00:25:30,695
and I feel like
I have to pretend everything is great

475
00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:33,782
even when it's not.

476
00:25:35,033 --> 00:25:35,867
I've…

477
00:25:37,869 --> 00:25:42,123
been lying to you
in our private therapy sessions

478
00:25:43,291 --> 00:25:45,210
about how the movie's going.

479
00:25:45,293 --> 00:25:46,545
So I've essentially

480
00:25:47,963 --> 00:25:50,840
been paying you to lie to you,

481
00:25:50,924 --> 00:25:54,219
and that left me feeling
more and more alone.

482
00:25:54,886 --> 00:25:55,971
[Stutz] Hmm.

483
00:25:56,054 --> 00:25:58,598
I'm trying to land these massive ideas.

484
00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:00,058
-[Stutz] Right.
-And these--

485
00:26:00,141 --> 00:26:05,021
And also tell the story of your life,
but I just feel stuck.

486
00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:07,983
And I just keep asking myself, like,

487
00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:10,402
"Was this a fucking terrible idea

488
00:26:10,485 --> 00:26:14,698
for a patient to make a movie
about his therapist?" [laughs]

489
00:26:14,781 --> 00:26:17,117
Like I laugh about it, you know?

490
00:26:17,742 --> 00:26:20,996
But what I got to was like,
why am I, like, hiding

491
00:26:22,372 --> 00:26:24,583
behind perfection?

492
00:26:24,666 --> 00:26:29,045
Why am I hiding behind a facade
instead of letting you in on it?

493
00:26:29,796 --> 00:26:32,173
Which felt like the only choice to me.

494
00:26:32,674 --> 00:26:33,508
It is.

495
00:26:34,217 --> 00:26:36,344
How can I make a movie
where I'm talking about people

496
00:26:36,428 --> 00:26:38,179
being vulnerable
and working on their problems

497
00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:39,806
and not be vulnerable myself?

498
00:26:40,307 --> 00:26:41,933
It doesn't feel fair.

499
00:26:42,017 --> 00:26:43,310
-And so…
-Hmm.

500
00:26:44,019 --> 00:26:46,646
…if the choice is to be fair and honest,

501
00:26:47,188 --> 00:26:49,858
then I should acknowledge that, like,

502
00:26:51,109 --> 00:26:53,570
we've been shooting for two years,

503
00:26:53,653 --> 00:26:57,741
and we're wearing
the same clothes every day,

504
00:26:57,824 --> 00:27:00,577
pretending it's one session,

505
00:27:00,660 --> 00:27:02,579
but it's been years.

506
00:27:03,121 --> 00:27:05,624
And we're on a green screen.

507
00:27:05,707 --> 00:27:07,208
We're not in your office.

508
00:27:08,126 --> 00:27:11,379
And I'm literally wearing a wig right now

509
00:27:11,463 --> 00:27:16,593
to make it look like it was
eight months ago when I had this haircut,

510
00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:18,386
and I literally have, like,

511
00:27:19,763 --> 00:27:20,597
a shaved head.

512
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:21,514
I, like…

513
00:27:22,057 --> 00:27:23,308
I don't know.

514
00:27:23,933 --> 00:27:27,020
It just feels… weird and false.

515
00:27:28,521 --> 00:27:32,567
I want to let the audience in
on the filmmaking process, and you,

516
00:27:32,651 --> 00:27:35,904
so they don't feel like
we're just lying to them about shit.

517
00:27:35,987 --> 00:27:39,449
And I'm lying to you and lying
to everyone else that it's going well,

518
00:27:39,532 --> 00:27:40,617
and that sucks.

519
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:42,619
We're probably gonna be
watching this scene,

520
00:27:42,702 --> 00:27:46,373
and there's gonna be stuff we shot
eight months ago, 14 months ago.

521
00:27:46,456 --> 00:27:47,457
Like… [scoffs]

522
00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:51,127
It's just hard to know
what is what at this point.

523
00:27:51,628 --> 00:27:55,507
But ultimately, I just came to the truth,
which is just letting you in on it.

524
00:27:56,341 --> 00:27:58,093
Does that feel fucked-up?

525
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:01,971
It feels like the only choice you have,
to be honest.

526
00:28:02,055 --> 00:28:06,101
If you want to stay with the truth of me
and what we're trying to do,

527
00:28:06,184 --> 00:28:08,353
then you have to let yourself fuck it up.

528
00:28:08,436 --> 00:28:09,979
If you could do it perfectly,

529
00:28:10,063 --> 00:28:12,399
it would contradict
everything that we're doing here.

530
00:28:12,482 --> 00:28:13,983
So I'm thrilled that you--

531
00:28:14,067 --> 00:28:17,028
I kind of suspected this anyway,
because we're getting--

532
00:28:17,612 --> 00:28:20,615
First of all, we're getting so many days,
you know, so I said--

533
00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:21,866
[both laugh]

534
00:28:21,950 --> 00:28:24,828
I said, "This is probably
the greatest documentary ever made

535
00:28:24,911 --> 00:28:26,913
or the worst," and it's probably both.

536
00:28:26,996 --> 00:28:29,165
[laughs]

537
00:28:29,249 --> 00:28:32,419
But listen,
it has to eventually get intimate,

538
00:28:32,502 --> 00:28:33,962
and once things get intimate,

539
00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:36,423
you don't know
what the fuck is gonna happen.

540
00:28:36,506 --> 00:28:38,133
If I've trained you properly,

541
00:28:38,216 --> 00:28:41,052
you can just see
that is not something to avoid.

542
00:28:41,803 --> 00:28:48,101
The failure would be not rolling with it
and not using it to go deeper.

543
00:28:48,184 --> 00:28:51,312
The driving force in this whole thing,
to me, is your vulnerability.

544
00:28:51,396 --> 00:28:52,939
[splutters] No question about it.

545
00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:58,111
If we're true to that idea
and you're forthcoming with it,

546
00:28:58,194 --> 00:28:59,863
we really can't go wrong, because--

547
00:28:59,946 --> 00:29:02,949
-But this movie is about you.
-[Stutz] No, no, not at all.

548
00:29:03,032 --> 00:29:05,118
To me, this is just one more thing.

549
00:29:05,869 --> 00:29:07,746
My life doesn't depend on it.

550
00:29:07,829 --> 00:29:10,039
Your life-- Okay,
maybe your life depends on it.

551
00:29:10,123 --> 00:29:12,375
-[both laugh]
-[Stutz] Just teasing.

552
00:29:12,459 --> 00:29:18,631
My mind says I want to aggressively
and honestly talk about two things.

553
00:29:18,715 --> 00:29:20,633
One is my relationship with you,

554
00:29:21,301 --> 00:29:24,387
and the second thing
is the actual power of these tools.

555
00:29:24,471 --> 00:29:27,056
So how do I go deeper? Like, how do I--

556
00:29:27,724 --> 00:29:29,893
-There's only one way.
-Huh?

557
00:29:29,976 --> 00:29:30,810
You.

558
00:29:35,732 --> 00:29:38,109
The thing is, if you wanna move forward…

559
00:29:38,818 --> 00:29:42,864
[splutters] …you can't move forward
without being vulnerable.

560
00:29:42,947 --> 00:29:47,076
And the reason is
everybody needs help in moving forward.

561
00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:52,665
Failure, weakness, vulnerability
is like a, um…

562
00:29:53,208 --> 00:29:56,211
It's like a connector.
It connects you to the rest of the world.

563
00:29:56,294 --> 00:29:58,296
Because what you're doing is,

564
00:29:58,379 --> 00:30:00,298
you're giving out
this signal to the world,

565
00:30:00,381 --> 00:30:03,468
"I need you
because I can't do this by myself."

566
00:30:08,723 --> 00:30:10,934
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

567
00:30:13,853 --> 00:30:15,939
I think what would be a good idea,

568
00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:18,900
maybe I should show you some of the movie,

569
00:30:18,983 --> 00:30:23,279
and we can kind of figure out
how we wanna complete it.

570
00:30:24,781 --> 00:30:28,576
And, like, for us to be in that together
if you're down for that?

571
00:30:29,077 --> 00:30:31,246
I am, yeah. I'm really touched.

572
00:30:31,329 --> 00:30:33,873
Um, frankly, I'm relieved also.

573
00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:39,212
So yes, it would be great. It'll be great.
It'll be like an experiment.

574
00:30:40,171 --> 00:30:41,297
Yeah. All right, cool.

575
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:43,466
Okay, I'm down.

576
00:30:43,550 --> 00:30:45,552
[laughs]

577
00:30:47,345 --> 00:30:48,346
I love you, dude.

578
00:30:48,888 --> 00:30:51,099
Cut. [laughs]

579
00:30:51,182 --> 00:30:52,725
Oh, you guys were filming?

580
00:30:52,809 --> 00:30:55,144
[laughs]

581
00:30:55,812 --> 00:30:57,981
[Jonah]
Why do you think I'm making a doc on you?

582
00:30:58,064 --> 00:30:59,774
I think it's… it's my ideas.

583
00:30:59,858 --> 00:31:02,986
I… I think my ideas had an effect on you,

584
00:31:03,069 --> 00:31:06,573
and I think you wanted
to expose other people to the ideas.

585
00:31:06,656 --> 00:31:08,575
You want to do some Parkinson's drugs?

586
00:31:08,658 --> 00:31:10,410
-[laughs]
-[both laugh on laptop]

587
00:31:10,493 --> 00:31:12,620
[Jonah] I kicked the stuff years ago, man.

588
00:31:12,704 --> 00:31:14,622
[piano music plays]

589
00:31:19,043 --> 00:31:22,630
[Jonah] So we had to build a fake set
of your office on the green screen

590
00:31:22,714 --> 00:31:25,133
to make it seem like we've been here
this whole time.

591
00:31:25,216 --> 00:31:27,719
-[Stutz] It's nicer than my real office.
-[Jonah laughs] Yeah.

592
00:31:27,802 --> 00:31:30,889
Part X. And then,
so when you're watching the movie…

593
00:31:32,348 --> 00:31:35,351
-Like, a view of-- [laughs]
-We never had insurance for that.

594
00:31:35,435 --> 00:31:37,228
[Jonah] We've ripped the Band-Aid off.

595
00:31:37,312 --> 00:31:40,565
We've told you where I'm at
and the truth of it.

596
00:31:40,648 --> 00:31:42,150
Where do we go from here?

597
00:31:42,233 --> 00:31:45,445
It feels to me
like we have to stay very grounded

598
00:31:45,528 --> 00:31:48,364
and, at the same time,
reach for the stars.

599
00:31:48,448 --> 00:31:51,618
I'm not sure how to do both of those
at the same time.

600
00:31:51,701 --> 00:31:55,288
But anything that's real
and that's profound

601
00:31:55,371 --> 00:31:59,042
has to have two, not one,
because it's a vibratory thing.

602
00:31:59,125 --> 00:31:59,959
[Jonah] Ooh!

603
00:32:00,043 --> 00:32:03,796
Two people can create a field,
and a field is invisible,

604
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,674
but that's the force in the universe
that makes things happen.

605
00:32:06,758 --> 00:32:09,093
You can see that
in your personal relationships.

606
00:32:09,177 --> 00:32:12,597
You can see it in the global events
that are happening now.

607
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:13,765
What we're doing here

608
00:32:13,848 --> 00:32:17,477
is giving ourselves over to something
that we can't fully understand.

609
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,229
But whatever it is out there,
whatever it is up there,

610
00:32:20,313 --> 00:32:22,523
it wants to have
a connection to everybody.

611
00:32:22,607 --> 00:32:24,192
[Jonah laughs]

612
00:32:24,275 --> 00:32:26,486
[Stutz] The shame, embarrassment,

613
00:32:26,569 --> 00:32:29,489
is actually the glue
that holds the universe together.

614
00:32:29,572 --> 00:32:33,868
It's in that experience that you're forced
to connect to somebody else.

615
00:32:34,869 --> 00:32:36,788
Anyway, things won't be perfect.

616
00:32:36,871 --> 00:32:41,125
In a filming sense or an artistic sense,
something might not work out,

617
00:32:41,209 --> 00:32:44,295
but in its impossibility,
something's gonna happen.

618
00:32:44,921 --> 00:32:47,006
This is my real hair, by the way.

619
00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:48,383
[laughs]

620
00:32:48,466 --> 00:32:51,094
What? What's the matter?
Wait, what's the matter?

621
00:32:51,177 --> 00:32:54,389
What you have to say is,
"I'm gonna do the best I can now."

622
00:32:54,472 --> 00:32:57,141
"I'll go to the next thing
and do the best I can there."

623
00:32:57,225 --> 00:33:01,020
And it sounds trite and superficial,
but believe me, it's not.

624
00:33:02,563 --> 00:33:06,943
Great, so you're saying the worse it is,
the better we did?

625
00:33:07,026 --> 00:33:08,111
-[Stutz] Yes.
-Great.

626
00:33:08,194 --> 00:33:10,321
Isn't that how Hollywood works in general?

627
00:33:10,405 --> 00:33:12,949
-[Jonah laughs]
-I always thought. I don't know.

628
00:33:16,494 --> 00:33:18,746
All right, well,
then let's just keep going.

629
00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:20,832
[melancholic music plays]

630
00:33:23,292 --> 00:33:26,295
[Stutz] If you have the tools,
we can turn this around.

631
00:33:26,963 --> 00:33:29,549
So we have to keep going.

632
00:33:30,216 --> 00:33:31,050
Keep going.

633
00:33:31,134 --> 00:33:33,469
It seems stupid.
Isn't that, like, simplistic?

634
00:33:33,553 --> 00:33:38,182
It is, but we want to say, "I'm the one
who puts the next pearl on the string."

635
00:33:38,266 --> 00:33:39,976
That's all. Nothing else.

636
00:33:40,059 --> 00:33:42,103
That's called the String of Pearls.

637
00:33:42,186 --> 00:33:46,816
That's probably the most important thing,
motivationally, you could teach yourself.

638
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,444
You just draw a string of pearls.

639
00:33:49,527 --> 00:33:52,572
There's a line then a circle,
line then a circle.

640
00:33:52,655 --> 00:33:55,783
Each one of those circles
equals one action.

641
00:33:56,409 --> 00:33:57,744
But here's the thing.

642
00:33:57,827 --> 00:33:59,954
Every action has the same value.

643
00:34:00,830 --> 00:34:02,999
This is a matter of identity. "Who am I?"

644
00:34:03,499 --> 00:34:06,961
"I'm not great. I'm not shit.
I don't want to look at myself and think…"

645
00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:10,882
I look at myself just in terms
of the habits with which I take action.

646
00:34:10,965 --> 00:34:14,385
If there's a failure
or a big success, by the way, either way,

647
00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:15,887
you're gonna keep going.

648
00:34:16,554 --> 00:34:21,017
I am the person that puts
the next pearl on the string. That's it.

649
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:24,896
So essentially getting out of bed
in the morning is a string of pearls.

650
00:34:24,979 --> 00:34:26,314
-Just getting out of bed…
-Yes.

651
00:34:26,397 --> 00:34:28,357
…and doing what you have to do that day

652
00:34:28,441 --> 00:34:31,152
and not putting,
like, a size value on the effort.

653
00:34:31,235 --> 00:34:33,154
-[Stutz] That's right.
-They're all the same size.

654
00:34:33,237 --> 00:34:36,783
The beautiful thing about you,
even though you're an asshole,

655
00:34:36,866 --> 00:34:38,367
is that you never stop.

656
00:34:38,451 --> 00:34:40,870
You have that.
You have a taste for uncertainty.

657
00:34:41,996 --> 00:34:47,001
The first session we had, you said that
true confidence is living in uncertainty.

658
00:34:47,752 --> 00:34:49,045
Yeah, and moving forward.

659
00:34:49,128 --> 00:34:52,965
The winner is not the one who always makes
the best decisions or looks the best.

660
00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:56,052
The winner is the one
who works that cycle.

661
00:34:56,135 --> 00:34:58,846
In other words,
who's willing to take a risk,

662
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:02,934
will interact with some degree of faith,
and then eats the consequences.

663
00:35:03,017 --> 00:35:06,062
If the consequences are bad,
then you gotta work the cycle again.

664
00:35:06,145 --> 00:35:07,355
That's as good as it gets.

665
00:35:07,980 --> 00:35:09,482
Now, here's the thing.

666
00:35:09,565 --> 00:35:13,027
In every one of these little circles,
there's a little darker circle,

667
00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:17,031
much smaller,
and the darker circle is a turd.

668
00:35:17,115 --> 00:35:21,119
It's kind of funny in a way,
but what it says is every effort you make…

669
00:35:21,202 --> 00:35:23,246
Let's say now.
We're trying to do this film.

670
00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:25,873
However this comes out,
it's not gonna come out perfectly.

671
00:35:25,957 --> 00:35:27,416
So there's gonna be a turd in it.

672
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:31,504
It's like I don't know if this is good,
so I don't have to worry about that.

673
00:35:31,587 --> 00:35:34,966
I have to worry about forward motion,
putting the next pearl on the string.

674
00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:38,678
I'll tell you, my life philosophy
has turned into the opposite of that.

675
00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:42,557
So instead of a turd inside of a pearl,

676
00:35:43,432 --> 00:35:45,101
there's a pearl around every turd.

677
00:35:45,726 --> 00:35:48,938
Because when something bad happens,
I go, like, "There's a lot to be learned

678
00:35:49,021 --> 00:35:51,482
and a lot of good around this event."

679
00:35:51,566 --> 00:35:54,110
That's fantastic.
I'm gonna steal that one.

680
00:35:54,735 --> 00:35:55,736
Well, I'll sue you.

681
00:35:55,820 --> 00:35:58,865
[laughs] I love you. I don't care.

682
00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:00,408
Good. I'll see you in court.

683
00:36:00,491 --> 00:36:02,410
[both laugh]

684
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:06,414
If this whole movie ends

685
00:36:06,497 --> 00:36:10,376
in, like, a ten-year, bitter lawsuit
between the two of us…

686
00:36:10,459 --> 00:36:12,003
It's very intimate. It's cool.

687
00:36:12,086 --> 00:36:14,088
[upbeat music plays]

688
00:36:20,636 --> 00:36:23,472
[Jonah] So meeting you
and starting our process

689
00:36:24,098 --> 00:36:28,603
was out of desperation to get happier.

690
00:36:29,103 --> 00:36:34,942
It's hard to say.
It's just I had no… healthy self-esteem.

691
00:36:35,026 --> 00:36:35,860
Right.

692
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,238
Having grown up overweight

693
00:36:40,323 --> 00:36:45,995
was something, um,
that sounds like not a big deal

694
00:36:46,078 --> 00:36:48,247
or like, "Poor you," or whatever.

695
00:36:48,998 --> 00:36:50,791
But for me personally,

696
00:36:50,875 --> 00:36:52,627
it intensely fucked me up.

697
00:36:53,419 --> 00:36:56,172
You explained to me the idea of a Shadow.

698
00:36:56,255 --> 00:37:00,551
It's the version of yourself that you want
to hide from the world the most.

699
00:37:01,052 --> 00:37:07,058
And this is what I pictured that day.
Me at 14.

700
00:37:10,102 --> 00:37:13,147
When I met you, I was 33, maybe.

701
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:15,566
I had an incredible amount of success,

702
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:18,319
was in really great shape, physically.

703
00:37:18,402 --> 00:37:24,116
All things that should have rendered
this idea of myself nonexistent…

704
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,076
Mm-hmm.

705
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:29,789
…but what you explained to me
was that this is how I saw myself,

706
00:37:29,872 --> 00:37:32,166
and I was denying myself

707
00:37:32,250 --> 00:37:34,210
because I felt so much shame about…

708
00:37:34,293 --> 00:37:35,878
-[Stutz] Right.
-…that this was me.

709
00:37:36,837 --> 00:37:40,508
I thought, if I got successful,
they wouldn't see that.

710
00:37:41,008 --> 00:37:46,597
And then I did, and then all people did
was just say more of that,

711
00:37:46,681 --> 00:37:48,266
and it hurt.

712
00:37:49,141 --> 00:37:52,687
And then I still felt like this person,

713
00:37:53,312 --> 00:37:59,527
and that… still resides in me
in a way that comes up.

714
00:37:59,610 --> 00:38:03,531
So inherently, at my core,
I'm still this unlovable person,

715
00:38:03,614 --> 00:38:06,701
but the work is, like, inching towards

716
00:38:07,994 --> 00:38:10,579
not only accepting
but, like, bringing this--

717
00:38:10,663 --> 00:38:13,207
-That it's great to be this person.
-Yes.

718
00:38:13,708 --> 00:38:15,334
But that's still very hard.

719
00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:18,045
Yeah, it'll be hard
for the rest of your life.

720
00:38:19,338 --> 00:38:21,340
[piano music plays]

721
00:38:25,177 --> 00:38:28,222
[Stutz] Everybody has a Shadow.
Everybody's Shadow is a bit different,

722
00:38:28,306 --> 00:38:31,600
but on the other hand,
everybody's Shadow is the same,

723
00:38:31,684 --> 00:38:35,229
because it's the part of themselves
they're ashamed of.

724
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:37,440
The first thing you want to do
is find your Shadow.

725
00:38:37,523 --> 00:38:41,027
You have to be able to see this thing
to focus on it

726
00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:42,862
and to know how to work with it.

727
00:38:42,945 --> 00:38:44,405
[splutters] You need a visual.

728
00:38:44,989 --> 00:38:46,115
So close your eyes.

729
00:38:47,575 --> 00:38:51,162
Now visualize a time in your life

730
00:38:51,245 --> 00:38:57,001
when you felt inferior,
embarrassed, rejected, despondent,

731
00:38:57,084 --> 00:38:58,461
that you're ashamed of it.

732
00:38:58,961 --> 00:39:02,465
It's the part of you
that you wish you were not,

733
00:39:03,090 --> 00:39:06,344
but you are, and not only that,
you can't get rid of it.

734
00:39:09,180 --> 00:39:14,643
To me, it's a 14-year-old boy
who's very overweight and has acne

735
00:39:14,727 --> 00:39:18,647
and feels very undesirable to the world.

736
00:39:19,315 --> 00:39:23,194
Okay. The question is, "What do you do
with that image in the present?"

737
00:39:23,277 --> 00:39:25,529
That's something from the past, right?

738
00:39:26,489 --> 00:39:31,410
Talk to your Shadow
and ask him how does he feel about you.

739
00:39:31,494 --> 00:39:34,163
How you've dealt with him,
how you've treated him.

740
00:39:34,246 --> 00:39:35,539
And see what he answers.

741
00:39:36,957 --> 00:39:40,419
He says, "You've denied my existence,

742
00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:43,923
and you felt shame at my mere existence."

743
00:39:44,006 --> 00:39:45,925
Ask him how he feels about that.

744
00:39:47,051 --> 00:39:50,429
Unbelievably hurt, angry, and upset.

745
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,349
Now, listen very carefully.

746
00:39:53,933 --> 00:39:56,685
The Shadow needs attention,

747
00:39:56,769 --> 00:39:59,105
but he needs the attention
not from the world.

748
00:39:59,188 --> 00:40:01,065
He doesn't need an Academy Award.

749
00:40:01,148 --> 00:40:05,694
The only being whose attention matters
to your Shadow is you.

750
00:40:06,821 --> 00:40:09,740
I want you to ask your Shadow,
what can you do

751
00:40:09,824 --> 00:40:12,201
to make up for

752
00:40:12,284 --> 00:40:15,079
the fact that you didn't pay attention
to him for such a long time?

753
00:40:15,162 --> 00:40:16,622
[piano music plays]

754
00:40:16,705 --> 00:40:18,707
[inhales, exhales]

755
00:40:21,085 --> 00:40:25,381
He says to include him in my life

756
00:40:25,464 --> 00:40:29,301
and share my life with him
and celebrate him.

757
00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:31,804
And be proud of me.

758
00:40:32,555 --> 00:40:36,350
Meaning in, like, a social setting
or a work setting or a romantic setting,

759
00:40:36,434 --> 00:40:38,436
where you're not acknowledging
this person,

760
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:42,690
and it's not only okay that they exist,
but they are a beautiful part of you.

761
00:40:42,773 --> 00:40:44,483
[Stutz] All right. Open your eyes.

762
00:40:45,234 --> 00:40:49,697
This is a tool that will hopefully make
your relationship with your Shadow better.

763
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:51,407
This is good for shyness.

764
00:40:51,490 --> 00:40:54,118
It's good if you have to make
a public presentation.

765
00:40:54,201 --> 00:40:57,663
It's even good if you have to confront
your spouse. It doesn't really matter.

766
00:40:58,247 --> 00:40:59,665
Or you're going on a date.

767
00:40:59,748 --> 00:41:02,668
Or anything that's, like,
high-stakes or high-pressure,

768
00:41:02,751 --> 00:41:06,714
where you feel you have to be
your, quote-unquote, unflawed, best self.

769
00:41:06,797 --> 00:41:09,633
Yeah. Our goal
is not to give a good performance.

770
00:41:09,717 --> 00:41:14,013
Our goal is to use this tool
and then tolerate whatever happens.

771
00:41:14,096 --> 00:41:18,517
Yeah, because if I'm content
with my true self,

772
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:23,564
then other people's opinions
just affect me way, way less.

773
00:41:24,356 --> 00:41:26,108
So you understand
what we're talking about,

774
00:41:26,192 --> 00:41:28,861
it's not how this looks
or if it looks good or bad.

775
00:41:28,944 --> 00:41:32,740
It's the process
of constantly relating to it that matters.

776
00:41:32,823 --> 00:41:36,368
If you don't pay him respect,
or attention is the best word for it,

777
00:41:36,452 --> 00:41:38,537
he'll make you do things
that are actually destructive.

778
00:41:38,621 --> 00:41:42,416
So it's both a tool that will make you
feel better in the moment,

779
00:41:42,917 --> 00:41:46,754
and it's also a philosophy about,
"Where am I going as a human being?"

780
00:41:46,837 --> 00:41:49,965
And the idea of being
in sync with the Shadow,

781
00:41:50,049 --> 00:41:51,509
it's a sense of wholeness.

782
00:41:51,592 --> 00:41:53,636
Wholeness means
I don't need anything else.

783
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,889
"I'm whole the way I am."
And that's very freeing.

784
00:41:56,972 --> 00:41:58,724
Whoops. Sorry.

785
00:41:58,807 --> 00:42:00,476
Please don't kick my Shadow.

786
00:42:01,936 --> 00:42:03,437
Very good. I'm sorry.

787
00:42:04,021 --> 00:42:05,523
-Did he hurt you?
-[Stutz laughs]

788
00:42:05,606 --> 00:42:07,233
Did the weird man hurt you?

789
00:42:07,733 --> 00:42:09,652
See, I love him now.
I have to take care of him.

790
00:42:09,735 --> 00:42:12,154
-You can come home with me.
-[laughs]

791
00:42:12,238 --> 00:42:14,240
[piano music plays]

792
00:42:21,330 --> 00:42:27,586
I met you five years ago,
and I had no confidence as a human being.

793
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:31,715
-I just didn't invest in myself.
-Right.

794
00:42:31,799 --> 00:42:34,134
And, like, understand how to like myself.

795
00:42:34,218 --> 00:42:38,222
I just worked to achieve this thing,

796
00:42:38,305 --> 00:42:40,933
which is your idea of the Snapshot.

797
00:42:41,433 --> 00:42:42,643
[Stutz] That's correct.

798
00:42:43,143 --> 00:42:46,689
So this is also called
the Realm of Illusion.

799
00:42:46,772 --> 00:42:48,691
Again, it's a classic Part X thing.

800
00:42:48,774 --> 00:42:53,779
It means that you are looking
for a perfect experience.

801
00:42:53,862 --> 00:42:58,075
So it could be the perfect wife,
the perfect amount of money in the bank,

802
00:42:58,158 --> 00:42:59,076
the perfect movie.

803
00:42:59,159 --> 00:43:01,787
It doesn't matter.
Whatever it is, it doesn't exist.

804
00:43:01,870 --> 00:43:06,375
It's just an image in your own mind.
Think about this.

805
00:43:06,458 --> 00:43:08,419
What is the nature of a snapshot?

806
00:43:08,919 --> 00:43:11,171
It has no movement, right? It's still.

807
00:43:11,839 --> 00:43:13,048
And it has no depth.

808
00:43:13,132 --> 00:43:16,260
But in this case,
you've taken this Snapshot,

809
00:43:16,343 --> 00:43:18,429
and you've crippled yourself with it.

810
00:43:18,512 --> 00:43:19,388
You fantasize.

811
00:43:19,471 --> 00:43:23,851
People tell themselves,
if they can enter that perfect world,

812
00:43:23,934 --> 00:43:25,561
then magic will happen.

813
00:43:25,644 --> 00:43:27,271
But you can't forget

814
00:43:27,980 --> 00:43:31,025
there are three aspects of reality.

815
00:43:31,108 --> 00:43:34,820
The pain will never go away.
Uncertainty will never go away.

816
00:43:34,903 --> 00:43:38,157
And there's no getting away
from the need for constant work.

817
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:41,035
Everybody has to live like that,
no matter what.

818
00:43:41,785 --> 00:43:47,791
Before I met you,
I'm this, like, wildly insecure kid,

819
00:43:47,875 --> 00:43:49,960
and then, uh, I think

820
00:43:50,461 --> 00:43:54,840
success and awards
will absolve me of the pain of life.

821
00:43:54,923 --> 00:43:57,635
So I work so hard to get to that Snapshot,

822
00:43:57,718 --> 00:44:00,262
and because of my privilege and luck,

823
00:44:01,388 --> 00:44:04,767
I got to go into that Snapshot
relatively early,

824
00:44:04,850 --> 00:44:08,646
and when it didn't cure any of that stuff,

825
00:44:08,729 --> 00:44:12,066
it made me beyond depressed.

826
00:44:12,149 --> 00:44:12,983
Yes.

827
00:44:13,067 --> 00:44:18,822
At the same time, the media
kept kind of like being really brutal

828
00:44:18,906 --> 00:44:20,199
about my weight.

829
00:44:20,282 --> 00:44:25,954
It was just kind of free game
for anyone to sort of… hit my sore spot.

830
00:44:26,038 --> 00:44:28,040
It made me so defensive.

831
00:44:28,123 --> 00:44:31,460
Like almost anticipating
someone saying something mean.

832
00:44:31,543 --> 00:44:33,295
And I'd be so angry.

833
00:44:33,379 --> 00:44:34,421
[Stutz] Mm-hmm.

834
00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:40,135
It kept me from feeling
any sense of, like,

835
00:44:40,219 --> 00:44:43,263
able to grow past
negative feelings about myself

836
00:44:44,014 --> 00:44:45,599
and made me more ashamed of my Shadow.

837
00:44:46,266 --> 00:44:50,229
And it wasn't until more recently,
my thirties, when I met you,

838
00:44:50,312 --> 00:44:54,274
that's when I learned
to take steps towards locking that out

839
00:44:54,358 --> 00:44:56,652
or forming my own opinion of self.

840
00:44:57,236 --> 00:44:58,362
Does that make sense?

841
00:44:59,279 --> 00:45:00,739
-You know?
-[chews]

842
00:45:00,823 --> 00:45:02,991
Here, wait, let's--
Are you chewing on something?

843
00:45:03,075 --> 00:45:03,992
Yeah.

844
00:45:04,660 --> 00:45:06,662
-[laughs]
-[man talks indistinctly]

845
00:45:08,997 --> 00:45:10,874
We're making a movie, dude!

846
00:45:10,958 --> 00:45:12,918
[both laugh]

847
00:45:13,001 --> 00:45:15,129
You should've told me that
before you invited me.

848
00:45:15,212 --> 00:45:18,424
He's fucking eating chocolate!
You have any calls you wanna take?

849
00:45:18,507 --> 00:45:20,884
[laughs] I do,
but let's see how this goes.

850
00:45:20,968 --> 00:45:23,303
[laughing] Um…

851
00:45:24,346 --> 00:45:26,432
Sorry, I'm checking my notes real quick.

852
00:45:26,515 --> 00:45:27,349
[Stutz] That's just--

853
00:45:27,433 --> 00:45:31,228
I just wrote down about
I banged your mother. Just cross it out.

854
00:45:31,311 --> 00:45:33,939
[laughs]

855
00:45:34,022 --> 00:45:39,069
The irony of the banging your mom joke
is my mom is coming here tomorrow,

856
00:45:39,153 --> 00:45:42,364
and we literally are gonna do a session
with you, me, and my mom.

857
00:45:43,907 --> 00:45:45,993
-Get the fuck out.
-[Jonah] I'm not even kidding.

858
00:45:46,827 --> 00:45:48,078
Well, don't tell her I…

859
00:45:48,912 --> 00:45:51,039
-No, I'm gonna tell her.
-[Stutz laughs]

860
00:45:51,999 --> 00:45:53,208
Um…

861
00:45:54,251 --> 00:45:55,419
-[Jonah] Okay.
-Hi.

862
00:45:55,502 --> 00:45:57,296
-Hi, guys.
-I like that color on you.

863
00:45:57,379 --> 00:45:59,548
-Thank you.
-You look nice.

864
00:45:59,631 --> 00:46:00,466
Thank you.

865
00:46:01,258 --> 00:46:02,676
This is my mom, Sharon.

866
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,428
-Sharon, hi. I'm Phil.
-Nice to meet you.

867
00:46:04,511 --> 00:46:05,554
Great to meet you.

868
00:46:05,637 --> 00:46:06,722
Great to meet you.

869
00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:09,016
Yeah, so I don't know.

870
00:46:09,099 --> 00:46:12,853
I was thinking
about my first experience with therapy.

871
00:46:13,395 --> 00:46:15,647
We were at a nutritionist's office,

872
00:46:15,731 --> 00:46:18,567
and we were arguing so much
that the nutritionist said,

873
00:46:18,650 --> 00:46:20,652
-"You guys should go see a therapist."
-100% correct.

874
00:46:20,736 --> 00:46:22,696
The doctor was like,
"Jonah should lose weight,"

875
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:26,700
and so you were like, as a mom,
"Shit, I should listen to the doctor

876
00:46:26,784 --> 00:46:28,410
and take him to a nutritionist."

877
00:46:28,494 --> 00:46:32,164
To be perfectly honest,
I would say I didn't need him to tell me.

878
00:46:32,247 --> 00:46:35,292
I maybe might have thought
that you should lose some weight.

879
00:46:36,001 --> 00:46:39,505
And I kinda don't want to go to the past,
but you have to go to the past sometimes,

880
00:46:39,588 --> 00:46:44,301
because my mother specifically was
extremely small, and so was my sister,

881
00:46:44,384 --> 00:46:47,763
and I was always talked to about,
"You're big like your dad."

882
00:46:47,846 --> 00:46:50,057
"You're the bigger one.
You need to lose weight."

883
00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:52,726
And I think it gave me so much anxiety

884
00:46:52,810 --> 00:46:56,146
when either I didn't look that way
or my kids didn't look that way

885
00:46:56,230 --> 00:47:01,026
that, I feel like, instead of thinking
about what I was doing,

886
00:47:01,109 --> 00:47:03,487
I was just doing what I thought was right.

887
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:04,822
-[Stutz] Mm-hmm.
-If that makes sense.

888
00:47:04,905 --> 00:47:07,866
Yeah, I'm not like trying attack you
or anything like that.

889
00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:10,619
So you see me being an overweight kid,

890
00:47:11,203 --> 00:47:13,288
and I feel that,
and the doctor feels that,

891
00:47:13,372 --> 00:47:17,543
and society has its own constructs
why that's defective or wrong.

892
00:47:17,626 --> 00:47:21,839
So, I'm like, "I am not good."

893
00:47:22,714 --> 00:47:24,800
"I am bad."

894
00:47:24,883 --> 00:47:28,136
"I don't look correct for the world."

895
00:47:28,220 --> 00:47:31,306
And you have to be the person

896
00:47:31,390 --> 00:47:36,687
that is attempting to correct that,
for whatever those reasons are.

897
00:47:36,770 --> 00:47:37,604
Right.

898
00:47:38,105 --> 00:47:41,650
It immediately put you
in the position of being adversarial.

899
00:47:41,733 --> 00:47:46,613
Of like, "This is the person
that doesn't… accept me."

900
00:47:46,697 --> 00:47:52,870
It's the idea that the woman figure
will not accept how you look.

901
00:47:53,537 --> 00:47:55,330
I do not place blame on you,

902
00:47:55,414 --> 00:47:59,543
because I also now understand,
and have already understood for a while,

903
00:48:00,085 --> 00:48:03,964
how much you felt like me in your family.

904
00:48:04,047 --> 00:48:04,923
[Stutz] Hmm.

905
00:48:05,507 --> 00:48:08,594
[Jonah] I just want to let you know
how it affected my life.

906
00:48:08,677 --> 00:48:09,511
Right.

907
00:48:09,595 --> 00:48:13,056
Because for me, sometimes it's easier
to have conversations like this

908
00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:15,434
in this form for whatever reason than it--

909
00:48:15,517 --> 00:48:17,936
Thank you, Jonah. I appreciate that.

910
00:48:18,020 --> 00:48:19,646
[Sharon and Jonah laugh]

911
00:48:19,730 --> 00:48:22,983
I want to say thank you,
because you've never articulated it

912
00:48:23,066 --> 00:48:28,238
as "the female figure in your life
not accepting the way that you look,"

913
00:48:28,322 --> 00:48:30,574
and I never thought of it that way.

914
00:48:30,657 --> 00:48:32,576
I tried to just fix it

915
00:48:32,659 --> 00:48:38,498
without even thinking about how me
telling you to do this would affect you.

916
00:48:39,458 --> 00:48:42,461
Just so we get this straight,
it's not this or that.

917
00:48:42,544 --> 00:48:43,629
That's not the point.

918
00:48:43,712 --> 00:48:47,466
No matter how clear the past is for you,

919
00:48:48,050 --> 00:48:52,971
for you, the question is, what's going on
now between the two of you,

920
00:48:53,055 --> 00:48:54,806
and what do you need?

921
00:48:54,890 --> 00:48:58,477
-Did you ever think about that?
-I do, sometimes.

922
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:59,394
Uh-huh.

923
00:48:59,478 --> 00:49:01,271
And can you tell us what you think?

924
00:49:02,397 --> 00:49:03,315
Um…

925
00:49:03,398 --> 00:49:06,026
-You can speak honestly.
-[Sharon] I know. I'm thinking.

926
00:49:06,109 --> 00:49:09,363
I would like
a little bit more consistency.

927
00:49:09,446 --> 00:49:12,115
Sometimes, I feel like Jonah comes to me,

928
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:14,868
but I am his mother,
when he needs to talk to me.

929
00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:19,873
And when he's, like, super happy,
it's like I'm in no-man's-land somewhere.

930
00:49:19,957 --> 00:49:22,626
I'm not in his mind or relevant.
I don't know.

931
00:49:22,709 --> 00:49:24,503
I just like time with Jonah,

932
00:49:24,586 --> 00:49:26,755
because I think we have
a real relationship.

933
00:49:26,838 --> 00:49:29,758
We've been through a lot,
and I think our relationship is deep,

934
00:49:30,384 --> 00:49:32,177
but sometimes I get anxious.

935
00:49:33,053 --> 00:49:37,641
When I'm like-- If I think that he's
not gonna either like what I say or…

936
00:49:37,724 --> 00:49:39,851
I don't know.
It's hard to articulate, but…

937
00:49:39,935 --> 00:49:40,978
Articulate that.

938
00:49:41,061 --> 00:49:41,979
I'm trying.

939
00:49:42,062 --> 00:49:45,232
I find myself holding back
from being exactly myself

940
00:49:45,315 --> 00:49:48,610
because I don't want him
to think a certain way about me.

941
00:49:50,195 --> 00:49:51,530
[Stutz] Did you know that?

942
00:49:52,531 --> 00:49:53,532
[inhales deeply]

943
00:49:54,658 --> 00:49:55,993
I didn't know that.

944
00:49:56,994 --> 00:50:00,664
But sometimes I react poorly

945
00:50:00,747 --> 00:50:06,336
when I feel you're not listening to others
and eating up the air or space.

946
00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:07,254
Right, I know.

947
00:50:07,337 --> 00:50:12,592
But I think it's cool for me to hear,
like, notes on what I could do better

948
00:50:13,635 --> 00:50:16,346
or what she needs
to make the relationship better

949
00:50:17,514 --> 00:50:20,892
in this context, honestly,
'cause I won't feel as defensive.

950
00:50:20,976 --> 00:50:23,687
-You mean if there's a third party here?
-[Jonah] Yeah.

951
00:50:24,229 --> 00:50:27,107
Speaking of,
Phil mentioned something yesterday.

952
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:29,818
He said you guys were together intimately.

953
00:50:29,901 --> 00:50:31,653
[laughs]

954
00:50:31,737 --> 00:50:33,363
-Wanna address that?
-[Sharon] He's joking.

955
00:50:33,447 --> 00:50:35,407
No, he said that. We have it on film.

956
00:50:35,490 --> 00:50:37,951
He wouldn't forget, trust me. [laughs]

957
00:50:38,035 --> 00:50:38,869
There you go.

958
00:50:38,952 --> 00:50:40,495
-There you go.
-Dude, fuck.

959
00:50:40,579 --> 00:50:43,123
I think this could be
a good time to wrap now.

960
00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:44,166
[laughs]

961
00:50:44,249 --> 00:50:46,251
-I think it's time.
-All right.

962
00:50:46,334 --> 00:50:49,963
Um, well, one thing
before we do, actually. Not a joke.

963
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:53,216
Like, did you ever have--
Not like this, literally,

964
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,511
but did you ever have
this kind of emotionally open conversation

965
00:50:56,595 --> 00:50:57,554
with your mom ever?

966
00:50:57,637 --> 00:50:59,681
No, not even close.

967
00:50:59,765 --> 00:51:02,059
If she was around now, would you?

968
00:51:03,226 --> 00:51:04,478
Now? Yeah.

969
00:51:05,937 --> 00:51:06,772
Yeah.

970
00:51:06,855 --> 00:51:08,857
[piano music plays]

971
00:51:13,528 --> 00:51:16,490
You gotta understand,
my mother was from a different planet.

972
00:51:17,157 --> 00:51:20,035
Her father, he was, uh, a psychopath.

973
00:51:20,118 --> 00:51:22,746
So he would come in
and beat the shit out of his wife

974
00:51:22,829 --> 00:51:25,749
and also the youngest one
but never touched my mother,

975
00:51:25,832 --> 00:51:28,085
and that was
the worst torture for her of all.

976
00:51:28,168 --> 00:51:30,921
So I think, by the time
she was eight, nine years old,

977
00:51:31,004 --> 00:51:32,839
she wouldn't say a word to him.

978
00:51:32,923 --> 00:51:37,094
1932, the height of the Depression,
he just ups and leaves.

979
00:51:37,177 --> 00:51:39,554
He doesn't say anything,
doesn't tell them he's leaving.

980
00:51:39,638 --> 00:51:42,140
In the middle of the night,
he books. He's gone.

981
00:51:42,224 --> 00:51:46,770
Forty years later,
he tried to, um, contact my mother,

982
00:51:46,853 --> 00:51:50,982
but my mother is hard-core. Forget it.
I don't think she answered the letter.

983
00:51:52,776 --> 00:51:55,612
She had this thing with men,
for obvious reasons.

984
00:51:56,113 --> 00:51:59,533
Every night at dinner,
she'd give a tirade about men.

985
00:51:59,616 --> 00:52:02,702
"Men are this, men are that."
I couldn't really disagree with her.

986
00:52:02,786 --> 00:52:05,288
My poor father
had to be the cheerleader for this.

987
00:52:05,372 --> 00:52:08,500
-[Jonah] What would he do?
-He'd say, "Yeah, she's right."

988
00:52:08,583 --> 00:52:10,877
-[Jonah laughs]
-"Men are terrible."

989
00:52:11,461 --> 00:52:15,132
It didn't occur to me until I was
about 13, 14. "Shit, I'm a man. Hmm."

990
00:52:15,215 --> 00:52:17,551
But she couldn't get over that,
even 50 years later.

991
00:52:17,634 --> 00:52:19,803
-Couldn't get over it.
-[Jonah] She's stuck in the Maze.

992
00:52:19,886 --> 00:52:22,722
She's stuck in the Maze
for 40 years, 50 years, yeah.

993
00:52:22,806 --> 00:52:24,808
["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

994
00:52:27,602 --> 00:52:29,855
The Maze always involves other people.

995
00:52:30,689 --> 00:52:32,566
It's the product of Part X,

996
00:52:32,649 --> 00:52:35,277
because Part X wants fairness.

997
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:36,403
A classic example

998
00:52:36,486 --> 00:52:41,241
is when somebody only wants
to think and talk about another person.

999
00:52:41,324 --> 00:52:43,118
What you're telling yourself is,

1000
00:52:43,201 --> 00:52:46,872
"I'll move past this
once they make up for whatever it is,

1001
00:52:46,955 --> 00:52:49,249
being angry at me, cheating."

1002
00:52:49,332 --> 00:52:50,584
It doesn't matter what.

1003
00:52:50,667 --> 00:52:52,335
You feel they've mistreated you,

1004
00:52:52,419 --> 00:52:55,881
and your quest for fairness
puts your life on hold.

1005
00:52:57,257 --> 00:53:00,927
Time is fleeting,
and we don't have time for that bullshit.

1006
00:53:05,390 --> 00:53:08,268
[Jonah] I feel like I spent
my whole fucking life in the Maze.

1007
00:53:08,351 --> 00:53:15,025
Being stuck on not being paid back
for something I was viewing as unfair

1008
00:53:15,108 --> 00:53:20,739
wasted hours, days, months,
years of my life that I can't get back.

1009
00:53:21,740 --> 00:53:23,950
So how could she have gotten out
of the Maze?

1010
00:53:24,034 --> 00:53:27,621
[Stutz] Here's the thing.
The average person wants to get paid back.

1011
00:53:27,704 --> 00:53:31,374
They want everything to be fair.
They want everything to be balanced.

1012
00:53:31,458 --> 00:53:33,126
But you're not gonna get it from them.

1013
00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:35,462
The way you feel you're getting paid,

1014
00:53:35,545 --> 00:53:38,048
the way you feel
things are being rebalanced,

1015
00:53:38,131 --> 00:53:42,052
is to get your satisfaction
from the exercise itself.

1016
00:53:42,135 --> 00:53:43,470
That's called Active Love.

1017
00:53:43,553 --> 00:53:46,056
["Lovesick Blues"
by Mason Ramsey continues]

1018
00:53:47,432 --> 00:53:48,683
So close your eyes

1019
00:53:48,767 --> 00:53:53,438
and imagine you're surrounded
by a universe completely made out of love.

1020
00:53:54,147 --> 00:53:56,983
I know it sounds nuts,
but just shut the fuck up.

1021
00:53:57,067 --> 00:53:58,068
Do what I tell you.

1022
00:53:58,151 --> 00:54:01,404
-[laughs]
-Don't prejudge it and see what happens.

1023
00:54:01,905 --> 00:54:03,156
Let me try to define it.

1024
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:08,119
It's just… It's a world
that's almost dense with loving energy.

1025
00:54:08,912 --> 00:54:12,540
Feel yourself taking in
all the love in the universe,

1026
00:54:12,624 --> 00:54:16,628
and gently, but firmly,
place all of it in your heart.

1027
00:54:17,879 --> 00:54:21,549
Right at that moment,
you're the principal leader of love

1028
00:54:21,633 --> 00:54:23,009
in the whole universe.

1029
00:54:23,593 --> 00:54:26,513
What you do is you want
to see the person you're angry at,

1030
00:54:26,596 --> 00:54:28,515
that you hate, that you despise,

1031
00:54:28,598 --> 00:54:31,643
and you send
all this love you've concentrated

1032
00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:33,812
towards the other person.

1033
00:54:42,028 --> 00:54:44,531
You hold nothing back.
You give everything.

1034
00:54:45,073 --> 00:54:46,616
You feel, not just see,

1035
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:51,079
you feel your love
enter the other person's body.

1036
00:54:51,162 --> 00:54:52,163
It's very important.

1037
00:54:52,247 --> 00:54:54,082
For a minute, you become one.

1038
00:54:54,708 --> 00:54:59,170
At that point, you feel like,
"If I can become one with this bastard,

1039
00:54:59,254 --> 00:55:01,339
I can become one with anybody."

1040
00:55:01,423 --> 00:55:05,093
And that's the sense of prowess,
almost of mastery.

1041
00:55:05,176 --> 00:55:08,722
People say, "Well, you're asking me
to love somebody I hate."

1042
00:55:08,805 --> 00:55:12,600
It's not a way to forgive somebody.
It's not for the other person.

1043
00:55:12,684 --> 00:55:15,895
It's to make you feel whole
and then free you from the Maze.

1044
00:55:15,979 --> 00:55:17,397
Then you can move forward.

1045
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,150
So do you wanna be right,
or do you wanna create something?

1046
00:55:20,233 --> 00:55:21,901
That's what it always comes down to.

1047
00:55:21,985 --> 00:55:23,820
Life is moving forward.

1048
00:55:23,903 --> 00:55:26,364
If you want to waste your time
playing games over here, you can,

1049
00:55:26,448 --> 00:55:29,367
but you can't get those days, hours back.

1050
00:55:31,870 --> 00:55:35,457
When she got older,
she became a community organizer,

1051
00:55:35,540 --> 00:55:36,958
and she was awesome.

1052
00:55:37,584 --> 00:55:41,671
If you asked her, "What was your job?"
she would say, "Organizing rent strikes."

1053
00:55:41,755 --> 00:55:44,924
"That's what I do for a living."
She wasn't scared of anybody.

1054
00:55:45,759 --> 00:55:49,554
In fact, the mayor of New York sees
my mother and says, "Wait a minute."

1055
00:55:49,637 --> 00:55:54,142
"I will not proceed with this negotiation
until Rosalie Stutz leaves."

1056
00:55:54,684 --> 00:55:57,103
[laughs] And they had to make her leave.

1057
00:55:57,187 --> 00:55:58,855
He was scared to death of her.

1058
00:55:59,731 --> 00:56:02,275
[Jonah] She turned her tragedy with men
into a superpower

1059
00:56:02,359 --> 00:56:04,944
of not being scared of them
and getting great good done.

1060
00:56:05,028 --> 00:56:05,987
Yeah, she did.

1061
00:56:06,071 --> 00:56:07,697
[Jonah] How do you think that affects you,

1062
00:56:07,781 --> 00:56:10,492
having your mom hate men
and you being a man?

1063
00:56:11,326 --> 00:56:12,160
Um…

1064
00:56:19,959 --> 00:56:22,170
I can feel everybody
waiting for the answer,

1065
00:56:22,253 --> 00:56:24,547
but I don't know
if I know exactly the answer.

1066
00:56:25,298 --> 00:56:27,217
I know one thing for sure. [chuckles]

1067
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:31,096
It made me insecure around women.
I mean, that's a no-brainer.

1068
00:56:31,721 --> 00:56:33,681
[piano music plays]

1069
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:39,479
It was like there was no pathway inside me

1070
00:56:39,562 --> 00:56:42,816
that could step to a woman and feel safe.

1071
00:56:42,899 --> 00:56:44,859
I guess that's the best way to say it.

1072
00:56:45,735 --> 00:56:47,821
[Jonah] Because you think
your mom's reaction to you

1073
00:56:47,904 --> 00:56:49,239
was to, like, cut you down,

1074
00:56:49,322 --> 00:56:52,575
and so you couldn't see a way with women
where you could feel safe?

1075
00:56:52,659 --> 00:56:56,788
Yeah. It wasn't even
on my list of expectations.

1076
00:56:56,871 --> 00:57:00,333
The way she would make me feel is,
"You have no right to even be doing this."

1077
00:57:00,417 --> 00:57:02,460
I overcame it a little bit, but not--

1078
00:57:02,544 --> 00:57:06,339
I didn't overcome it emotionally
so much as I did just behaviorally.

1079
00:57:06,423 --> 00:57:10,677
Do you think it made it hard
to trust women, like, overall?

1080
00:57:12,137 --> 00:57:14,764
Not-- Well, is it… Now?

1081
00:57:18,435 --> 00:57:20,520
It's not that much of an issue now.

1082
00:57:20,603 --> 00:57:23,773
I'll tell you one thing,
I'd be a much better partner now

1083
00:57:23,857 --> 00:57:25,233
than I was years ago.

1084
00:57:26,067 --> 00:57:27,902
Although that's a very low bar.

1085
00:57:29,028 --> 00:57:30,572
[chuckling] That's a very low bar.

1086
00:57:30,655 --> 00:57:33,825
[Jonah] Where do you stand personally
on romantic relationships?

1087
00:57:34,784 --> 00:57:36,536
You mean am I in one, you mean?

1088
00:57:37,036 --> 00:57:38,288
[Jonah] Yeah, are you in one?

1089
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,291
No, I'm not in one. Um…

1090
00:57:41,374 --> 00:57:44,586
[Jonah] Did you ever override
that wall that was built by your mom

1091
00:57:44,669 --> 00:57:47,964
and get close in the way
you were scared to with a woman?

1092
00:57:48,465 --> 00:57:49,799
Um…

1093
00:57:51,676 --> 00:57:52,802
I would say,

1094
00:57:54,387 --> 00:57:56,389
yeah, once.

1095
00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:02,896
But I… for various reasons,
I can't get into the specifics of it.

1096
00:58:02,979 --> 00:58:08,026
[Jonah] Was this a long time ago?
Was this, like, in recent years?

1097
00:58:09,736 --> 00:58:11,070
Um…

1098
00:58:11,154 --> 00:58:13,865
It's been on and off for 40 years.

1099
00:58:16,493 --> 00:58:18,745
[chuckles] As crazy as that might sound.

1100
00:58:19,954 --> 00:58:23,041
[Jonah] And what prevents it
from being constant?

1101
00:58:25,668 --> 00:58:27,420
I'll just say it in general terms.

1102
00:58:27,921 --> 00:58:31,341
She has other family stuff that, uh,

1103
00:58:32,759 --> 00:58:35,637
goes… takes her
in completely the opposite direction.

1104
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:37,680
And also my health, you know.

1105
00:58:37,764 --> 00:58:39,098
I got the, um…

1106
00:58:40,767 --> 00:58:44,229
When I got the Parkinson's,
it had a double effect on me.

1107
00:58:44,854 --> 00:58:47,065
It's funny. You know, today I hardly…

1108
00:58:47,732 --> 00:58:50,235
Wow, that's really good.

1109
00:58:50,318 --> 00:58:52,070
[Jonah] Yeah,
you're not even shaking at all.

1110
00:58:52,153 --> 00:58:56,491
Would you be willing to follow me around?
Because you seem to be helping.

1111
00:58:56,574 --> 00:58:58,826
[both chuckle]

1112
00:58:58,910 --> 00:59:01,788
I'd give you off--
You just have to stay with me every day

1113
00:59:01,871 --> 00:59:03,831
till about 7:00, 8:00 at night,
then you're free--

1114
00:59:03,915 --> 00:59:07,418
[Jonah] Don't go on
a fucking comedy routine right now.

1115
00:59:07,502 --> 00:59:09,462
-Stay on track, bro.
-Thank you.

1116
00:59:09,546 --> 00:59:11,881
-[Jonah] I know what you're doing.
-Thank you.

1117
00:59:12,465 --> 00:59:13,508
Uh…

1118
00:59:13,591 --> 00:59:16,261
[Jonah] So the illness
and her family stuff.

1119
00:59:19,138 --> 00:59:19,973
Yeah.

1120
00:59:22,392 --> 00:59:24,644
[Jonah] I can't relate
to having Parkinson's,

1121
00:59:25,228 --> 00:59:28,648
but do you ever think that can be a crutch

1122
00:59:28,731 --> 00:59:32,610
to not just make a decision
that would be scary emotionally?

1123
00:59:33,361 --> 00:59:35,697
Uh, yes, 100%.

1124
00:59:36,406 --> 00:59:38,449
I think that crazy part of me--

1125
00:59:38,533 --> 00:59:41,661
It takes whatever is happening
and uses it to prove its point.

1126
00:59:42,161 --> 00:59:45,498
[Jonah] But that's your Part X
preventing you from making that decision.

1127
00:59:45,582 --> 00:59:47,292
Yeah. Yeah.

1128
00:59:48,418 --> 00:59:53,840
[Jonah] You know, I think my big fear
with, uh, romantic relationships,

1129
00:59:53,923 --> 00:59:57,385
what I'm learning is,
is, like, the only way

1130
00:59:58,177 --> 01:00:02,098
for them to succeed
is for you to be completely vulnerable.

1131
01:00:02,181 --> 01:00:03,141
Yeah.

1132
01:00:03,224 --> 01:00:05,893
[Jonah] And humans are so fucked-up,

1133
01:00:05,977 --> 01:00:08,354
and we just talk ourselves out
of happiness so often

1134
01:00:08,438 --> 01:00:12,483
that maybe it's worth trying to push you
to at least think about it.

1135
01:00:14,569 --> 01:00:16,696
Well, you've definitely succeeded in that.

1136
01:00:22,410 --> 01:00:25,747
I can't tell you,
in the last, let's say, three minutes,

1137
01:00:26,414 --> 01:00:28,499
how many jokes I've had to repress.

1138
01:00:29,626 --> 01:00:30,543
[Jonah] I get it.

1139
01:00:31,544 --> 01:00:35,506
I have the same disease,
which is avoid emotion by making jokes.

1140
01:00:35,590 --> 01:00:36,424
Yeah.

1141
01:00:39,552 --> 01:00:40,803
[laughs]

1142
01:00:40,887 --> 01:00:44,682
[Jonah] Can I ask a random question,
and you can just tell me to fuck off?

1143
01:00:45,224 --> 01:00:46,100
Yeah.

1144
01:00:46,184 --> 01:00:47,393
[Jonah] Do you think…

1145
01:00:49,395 --> 01:00:52,106
you will call her

1146
01:00:52,190 --> 01:00:56,319
or have some sort of new insight
on that relationship?

1147
01:01:00,031 --> 01:01:01,783
It… it feels like it, yeah.

1148
01:01:03,785 --> 01:01:06,704
Do you mean that,
or are you just placating to me?

1149
01:01:07,580 --> 01:01:08,581
Um…

1150
01:01:11,084 --> 01:01:12,585
No. I… I mean…

1151
01:01:13,628 --> 01:01:16,714
It… it feels like a source of energy

1152
01:01:16,798 --> 01:01:19,425
that might help me
make a decision like this.

1153
01:01:20,510 --> 01:01:21,386
Um…

1154
01:01:24,055 --> 01:01:28,893
[Jonah] Yeah, I mean, I guess
I don't feel anything except love for you.

1155
01:01:30,436 --> 01:01:31,312
I just want…

1156
01:01:32,355 --> 01:01:36,984
I… I want you to… be happy.

1157
01:01:45,243 --> 01:01:46,911
No, I feel it. I feel that.

1158
01:01:54,752 --> 01:01:58,589
See, the thing with me
that's not typical is the illness stuff.

1159
01:01:59,882 --> 01:02:02,802
So I think, now that I'm talking about it,

1160
01:02:02,885 --> 01:02:04,345
I think, unconsciously,

1161
01:02:04,887 --> 01:02:09,100
I was linking a woman,
like a relationship, and being cured.

1162
01:02:10,101 --> 01:02:12,270
[Jonah] But there's no cure
for Parkinson's.

1163
01:02:12,353 --> 01:02:14,647
Yes. That's correct.

1164
01:02:15,940 --> 01:02:19,152
But most people aren't sick like that. Um…

1165
01:02:19,902 --> 01:02:22,530
And I've been sick for a long, uh, time.

1166
01:02:23,823 --> 01:02:25,742
[piano music plays]

1167
01:02:25,825 --> 01:02:28,911
I grew up in Manhattan,
so I was used to going out at night.

1168
01:02:29,412 --> 01:02:34,167
By the time I was 21, 22, we would go out
at least one out of every two nights.

1169
01:02:34,834 --> 01:02:38,838
It was Friday. I was supposed to meet
these two women at some bar downtown.

1170
01:02:38,921 --> 01:02:41,132
I said, "Great,
I'll be down there in an hour."

1171
01:02:41,215 --> 01:02:42,884
And I had been taking a nap.

1172
01:02:42,967 --> 01:02:46,721
I went back to sleep. I said, "Let me
just continue this nap for 20 minutes,

1173
01:02:46,804 --> 01:02:48,514
then I'll take a cab downtown."

1174
01:02:48,598 --> 01:02:50,433
I woke up Monday morning.

1175
01:02:51,893 --> 01:02:55,313
And I said, "I am really fucked.
Something is terribly wrong."

1176
01:02:55,396 --> 01:02:58,232
Complete exhaustion.
Like an exhaustion so deep…

1177
01:02:58,316 --> 01:02:59,609
Let me put it this way.

1178
01:02:59,692 --> 01:03:03,279
If I had to go to the cleaners,
right across the street from my house,

1179
01:03:03,362 --> 01:03:06,657
I would have to think,
"Okay, can I do this or not?"

1180
01:03:06,741 --> 01:03:09,035
"Do I have the… the strength to do it?"

1181
01:03:09,118 --> 01:03:12,371
But this was not me.
I was, like, a very hyperactive person.

1182
01:03:12,955 --> 01:03:15,249
So then I went to a neurologist.

1183
01:03:15,333 --> 01:03:18,503
In one meeting, he told me,
"Oh, you have cervical stenosis,

1184
01:03:18,586 --> 01:03:22,131
you need immediate surgery,
and you have Parkinson's disease."

1185
01:03:22,215 --> 01:03:23,966
[Jonah] What did it feel like that day?

1186
01:03:26,344 --> 01:03:27,261
Um…

1187
01:03:30,348 --> 01:03:32,350
[piano music continues]

1188
01:03:45,404 --> 01:03:47,365
See, this is my real Shadow coming out

1189
01:03:47,448 --> 01:03:50,076
when you're gonna see
what my handwriting looks like.

1190
01:03:50,576 --> 01:03:51,494
[Jonah] Why?

1191
01:03:52,620 --> 01:03:54,288
Because it's barely legible.

1192
01:03:58,042 --> 01:03:59,752
I don't even like looking at it.

1193
01:04:01,671 --> 01:04:03,673
I used to be very good with my hands.

1194
01:04:03,756 --> 01:04:07,301
I was very good at basketball,
but anything, I was dexterous.

1195
01:04:07,385 --> 01:04:08,219
Now,

1196
01:04:09,428 --> 01:04:11,597
well, it speaks for itself. [chuckles]

1197
01:04:11,681 --> 01:04:13,850
But what I try to do when I get that fear,

1198
01:04:13,933 --> 01:04:17,436
I try to see my Shadow
right at that moment.

1199
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,939
"He looks cachectic."
You know what that means?

1200
01:04:20,022 --> 01:04:21,482
-Emaciated?
-[Stutz] Yeah, emaciated.

1201
01:04:21,566 --> 01:04:23,860
-Yeah.
-[Stutz] That's how my Shadow looks now.

1202
01:04:23,943 --> 01:04:25,486
It's like I'll fall apart.

1203
01:04:27,530 --> 01:04:32,243
[Jonah] Do you think medical issues
can lead to a lonelier existence?

1204
01:04:33,578 --> 01:04:35,997
-Yes. [splutters] Yes.
-[Jonah] Why?

1205
01:04:37,415 --> 01:04:41,961
It was, literally, for a while there,
I was afraid to go outside.

1206
01:04:42,628 --> 01:04:44,630
[Jonah] Did you ever think
about having kids?

1207
01:04:44,714 --> 01:04:47,216
Yeah, all the time,
but now… it's too late now.

1208
01:04:47,300 --> 01:04:49,552
I… and I wouldn't want to have a kid now.

1209
01:04:49,635 --> 01:04:51,012
[Jonah] Hmm. Why not?

1210
01:04:51,095 --> 01:04:52,805
I'm still so weak.

1211
01:04:52,889 --> 01:04:56,434
If I have to get out of this chair,
I have to think about it.

1212
01:04:56,517 --> 01:04:57,768
There'll be so many moments

1213
01:04:57,852 --> 01:05:01,689
where I wasn't actually capable
of being part of the thing.

1214
01:05:01,772 --> 01:05:04,275
-[Jonah] Hmm.
-I don't think it'd be a great idea.

1215
01:05:04,358 --> 01:05:06,152
[Jonah] That fucking sucks, man.

1216
01:05:06,235 --> 01:05:07,528
[chuckles] Yeah.

1217
01:05:08,321 --> 01:05:09,280
Yeah.

1218
01:05:09,363 --> 01:05:11,741
[splutters] But if that hadn't happened,

1219
01:05:12,325 --> 01:05:14,869
the last bit of information
I've been developing,

1220
01:05:14,952 --> 01:05:16,203
I wouldn't have gotten.

1221
01:05:16,287 --> 01:05:19,248
It's like every time
I get pushed down and crushed,

1222
01:05:19,332 --> 01:05:21,334
I seem to get more information.

1223
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:24,879
[melancholic music plays]

1224
01:05:24,962 --> 01:05:28,174
Parkinson's has made me aware of time.
Like, really aware of it.

1225
01:05:28,966 --> 01:05:32,303
My sense of mission, my sense
of this is what I'm supposed to do,

1226
01:05:32,386 --> 01:05:34,180
that got much stronger in me.

1227
01:05:34,847 --> 01:05:37,183
If I don't do that,
I start to think about,

1228
01:05:37,266 --> 01:05:39,143
"Oh, shit, this happened to me."

1229
01:05:39,644 --> 01:05:41,812
"What a drag."
You know, it makes life harder.

1230
01:05:41,896 --> 01:05:44,231
Then you go
into this whole pity party thing.

1231
01:05:44,315 --> 01:05:45,733
It's a complete waste of time.

1232
01:05:46,734 --> 01:05:49,487
[Jonah] Do you ever get in that zone?
The pity party zone?

1233
01:05:49,987 --> 01:05:52,365
Yeah, I get in it all the time,

1234
01:05:53,032 --> 01:05:56,035
but I'm very fast at getting out of it.

1235
01:05:58,412 --> 01:06:00,039
[Jonah] In putting the movie together,

1236
01:06:00,122 --> 01:06:04,710
I started using your drawings
to display the tools,

1237
01:06:04,794 --> 01:06:06,921
and they are a bit shaky,

1238
01:06:07,463 --> 01:06:11,342
and I wanted to know
if it was okay with you if I did that?

1239
01:06:12,093 --> 01:06:14,470
Oh, it would be great. Definitely do it.

1240
01:06:14,553 --> 01:06:16,555
And if it's shaky, it's even better.

1241
01:06:17,056 --> 01:06:20,267
Because the whole premise of this
is we're not gonna win every time,

1242
01:06:20,351 --> 01:06:23,688
we certainly can't be perfect,
we can't control it,

1243
01:06:23,771 --> 01:06:26,482
but we have
an unstoppable will to go forward.

1244
01:06:26,565 --> 01:06:28,734
And this reminds you of it.

1245
01:06:28,818 --> 01:06:31,904
Each card has
a little bit of a different approach

1246
01:06:31,988 --> 01:06:33,572
to basically the same goal,

1247
01:06:34,198 --> 01:06:38,285
which is, "Schmuck, take action,
no matter how frightened you are."

1248
01:06:38,369 --> 01:06:40,371
[tense music plays]

1249
01:06:41,414 --> 01:06:44,041
[Jonah] That reminds me of
Radical Acceptance, which is a big one

1250
01:06:44,125 --> 01:06:46,210
and really helps me work through a lot.

1251
01:06:46,711 --> 01:06:48,504
That's right. That's exactly right.

1252
01:06:48,587 --> 01:06:52,717
Here's the thing. Every event has
something in it that you can learn from.

1253
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,176
When something goes wrong,

1254
01:06:54,260 --> 01:06:58,639
anybody can say, "Well, it's not that bad.
I'll recover from it tomorrow."

1255
01:06:58,723 --> 01:06:59,890
That's not good enough.

1256
01:06:59,974 --> 01:07:03,519
You have to create a reflex
to squeeze the juice out.

1257
01:07:03,602 --> 01:07:06,814
Squeezing the juice
means finding something meaningful.

1258
01:07:06,897 --> 01:07:10,985
It's trying to find the state
of not getting into a lot of negativity

1259
01:07:11,068 --> 01:07:14,822
but actually training yourself to say,
"What am I gonna do about it now?"

1260
01:07:14,905 --> 01:07:16,574
I gotta do some push-ups.

1261
01:07:17,199 --> 01:07:20,786
Is there anything that's, you know,
strong enough to support my weight?

1262
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:23,247
-[Jonah] You wanna do push-ups?
-Yeah. I'm getting stiff.

1263
01:07:23,330 --> 01:07:26,292
You can do it on the dolly
if you want. The push-ups.

1264
01:07:26,375 --> 01:07:27,668
[Jonah] Careful, Phil.

1265
01:07:28,961 --> 01:07:31,505
I've never done this
in front of this many people.

1266
01:07:32,923 --> 01:07:36,010
Even if I do, like, ten of these…
This is good for this.

1267
01:07:36,093 --> 01:07:38,304
-Can I take this home?
-[all laugh]

1268
01:07:38,387 --> 01:07:39,680
It's the most expensive push-up--

1269
01:07:39,764 --> 01:07:41,515
[Stutz] You're not allowed
to make judgements.

1270
01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:44,560
You're not allowed
to tell yourself anything negative.

1271
01:07:44,643 --> 01:07:46,062
It doesn't mean you're stupid.

1272
01:07:46,145 --> 01:07:48,147
It doesn't mean
there isn't something negative there.

1273
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:51,817
You're not allowed to go through that.
It goes against what we're doing.

1274
01:07:51,901 --> 01:07:56,280
Number two, obviously, you want to find
something that's positive about it.

1275
01:07:56,363 --> 01:07:57,865
Dude, you're crushing it.

1276
01:07:58,616 --> 01:08:01,452
Well, when you do 100 of these a day,
you get stronger. [chuckles]

1277
01:08:01,535 --> 01:08:03,454
-You do 100 of those a day?
-Probably.

1278
01:08:03,537 --> 01:08:07,333
Yeah, because every time I stiffen up,
I can't move like I should.

1279
01:08:07,416 --> 01:08:08,834
Yeah, now it's a lot looser,

1280
01:08:08,918 --> 01:08:11,962
but, you know, I get like this,
I can't move either of them.

1281
01:08:12,046 --> 01:08:13,422
So I discovered this.

1282
01:08:13,506 --> 01:08:17,134
Maybe this'll spread the word
if you guys don't cut it out of the film.

1283
01:08:17,218 --> 01:08:19,386
So squeezing the juice out of the lemon

1284
01:08:19,887 --> 01:08:22,723
means you have
not only the will to do this,

1285
01:08:22,807 --> 01:08:24,433
but you have some faith in it.

1286
01:08:24,517 --> 01:08:26,727
There's something there that's valuable.

1287
01:08:26,811 --> 01:08:28,270
And what happens is

1288
01:08:28,354 --> 01:08:30,523
everything starts
to become more meaningful.

1289
01:08:31,107 --> 01:08:33,943
You don't get to the world of meaning
through big things.

1290
01:08:34,026 --> 01:08:35,694
You get it through small things.

1291
01:08:35,778 --> 01:08:36,946
I feel better.

1292
01:08:37,029 --> 01:08:39,156
-I feel loose now.
-I do that for my mind.

1293
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:40,825
-Oh.
-Sorry. [chuckles]

1294
01:08:40,908 --> 01:08:44,662
[Stutz] You need to look at all events
as having value.

1295
01:08:44,745 --> 01:08:48,791
If you can do that, then you're in a zone
of tremendous opportunity.

1296
01:08:49,667 --> 01:08:51,627
That's all I have to say on that.

1297
01:08:51,710 --> 01:08:54,505
-[Jonah laughs]
-[Stutz chuckles]

1298
01:08:54,588 --> 01:08:56,757
[Jonah] You fucking dropped the mic.
That was amazing.

1299
01:08:56,841 --> 01:08:59,385
That's one of the best.
That's a Stutz greatest hit.

1300
01:08:59,468 --> 01:09:02,304
-Yeah, it is one of the best.
-[Jonah] I had to use that last night.

1301
01:09:02,805 --> 01:09:04,515
Oh yeah? How did it work out?

1302
01:09:04,598 --> 01:09:07,726
[Jonah] So I had an anxiety attack,
and I couldn't sleep.

1303
01:09:07,810 --> 01:09:09,854
And instead of having more anxiety

1304
01:09:09,937 --> 01:09:12,565
about how I'm not getting
enough sleep for the next day's work,

1305
01:09:12,648 --> 01:09:16,443
I used Radical Acceptance
and was able to actually use that time

1306
01:09:16,986 --> 01:09:19,864
to come up with more new ideas
for the shoot today.

1307
01:09:20,531 --> 01:09:22,366
Yeah, well, you did a good job.

1308
01:09:22,449 --> 01:09:23,868
Don't fuck this up now.

1309
01:09:24,660 --> 01:09:25,953
[Stutz chuckles]

1310
01:09:26,036 --> 01:09:28,080
Did I say anything about Cain and Abel?

1311
01:09:28,831 --> 01:09:29,999
Maybe not.

1312
01:09:30,082 --> 01:09:31,709
[Jonah] You went to high school with them?

1313
01:09:31,792 --> 01:09:33,502
[both laugh]

1314
01:09:36,672 --> 01:09:38,674
["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

1315
01:09:47,391 --> 01:09:50,477
[Stutz] I actually remember…
I think I was nine. It wasn't like today

1316
01:09:50,561 --> 01:09:52,980
where you just hop on a plane.
It was a big deal.

1317
01:09:53,063 --> 01:09:56,692
And it was-- You couldn't see shit.
It was one of those overcast days.

1318
01:09:56,775 --> 01:09:59,737
My father was talking to me
about some of this stuff… [chuckles]

1319
01:09:59,820 --> 01:10:01,363
…and he said, "Don't worry."

1320
01:10:01,447 --> 01:10:04,283
"We'll get above this,
and the sun will be out."

1321
01:10:04,366 --> 01:10:06,452
[splutters] I just couldn't believe it.

1322
01:10:06,535 --> 01:10:08,662
I thought, "What, are you crazy?"

1323
01:10:08,746 --> 01:10:11,207
This-- How could the sun still be up there

1324
01:10:11,290 --> 01:10:14,043
when it's so dense,
and I'm seeing all these clouds?

1325
01:10:14,126 --> 01:10:16,378
And then, I remember the exact moment

1326
01:10:16,462 --> 01:10:20,799
the sun broke through the cloud,
and I was so amazed.

1327
01:10:20,883 --> 01:10:25,221
It's like the whole model of the universe
became different because…

1328
01:10:25,304 --> 01:10:26,639
The importance of it was

1329
01:10:26,722 --> 01:10:29,600
I was no longer judging
the nature of reality

1330
01:10:29,683 --> 01:10:32,311
by my experiences
in the last five minutes.

1331
01:10:32,895 --> 01:10:34,146
The sun is always up there.

1332
01:10:34,230 --> 01:10:37,149
The cloud is always over here,
blocking the sun.

1333
01:10:37,233 --> 01:10:40,819
If you can't break through,
you think it's a very bad day.

1334
01:10:40,903 --> 01:10:43,197
In fact, you think it's a very bad life.

1335
01:10:44,531 --> 01:10:48,285
Every thought you have
is gonna affect your mood.

1336
01:10:48,369 --> 01:10:51,413
Every thought you have
is gonna be either positive or negative.

1337
01:10:51,497 --> 01:10:55,584
So the Grateful Flow
wants to choose the positives.

1338
01:10:55,668 --> 01:10:57,670
[upbeat music plays]

1339
01:11:02,383 --> 01:11:04,218
Part X wants you
to have the negative flow,

1340
01:11:04,301 --> 01:11:06,553
so it'll create the cloud up there

1341
01:11:06,637 --> 01:11:08,472
so you can't see the sun.

1342
01:11:08,555 --> 01:11:11,350
You forget
that it's actually sunny up there.

1343
01:11:11,433 --> 01:11:14,770
The question becomes,
"How do you penetrate the cloud?"

1344
01:11:14,853 --> 01:11:17,314
And the answer is, "With gratefulness."

1345
01:11:17,398 --> 01:11:19,775
It gives you the sensation, the feeling,

1346
01:11:19,858 --> 01:11:22,236
that there's
always something up there positive

1347
01:11:22,319 --> 01:11:24,488
even if you can't see it at all.

1348
01:11:24,571 --> 01:11:27,199
But you have to have a mechanism.
That's where the tool comes in.

1349
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:30,995
The Grateful Flow
is not the things you're grateful for.

1350
01:11:31,078 --> 01:11:34,707
The Grateful Flow
is the process of creating these things.

1351
01:11:34,790 --> 01:11:36,250
So close your eyes.

1352
01:11:36,959 --> 01:11:40,963
Now, what you want to do
is you say two or three, at most four,

1353
01:11:41,046 --> 01:11:42,673
things you're grateful for.

1354
01:11:42,756 --> 01:11:44,341
The smaller the thing, the better,

1355
01:11:44,425 --> 01:11:46,927
because it forces you
to concentrate gratefulness.

1356
01:11:47,011 --> 01:11:51,557
You wanna do it nice and slow.
You want to feel the gratefulness.

1357
01:11:53,976 --> 01:11:57,187
I'm grateful for my nephews.

1358
01:12:00,733 --> 01:12:04,361
I'm grateful for surfing.

1359
01:12:05,362 --> 01:12:06,655
I'm grateful…

1360
01:12:09,033 --> 01:12:10,117
for my dog.

1361
01:12:11,660 --> 01:12:13,120
I'm grateful for you.

1362
01:12:14,371 --> 01:12:18,500
[Stutz] Okay, now, keep naming things,
but don't say them out loud.

1363
01:12:18,584 --> 01:12:21,295
Just keep creating
that stream of gratefulness.

1364
01:12:24,465 --> 01:12:25,299
Good.

1365
01:12:25,883 --> 01:12:27,760
The next thing you do is you feel

1366
01:12:27,843 --> 01:12:31,805
that you're going to create
another grateful thought, but you don't.

1367
01:12:31,889 --> 01:12:36,310
You block it. So all you feel is the force
that would create a grateful thought,

1368
01:12:36,393 --> 01:12:40,481
and as it gets stronger and stronger,
you feel taken over by it.

1369
01:12:40,564 --> 01:12:42,566
[upbeat music continues]

1370
01:12:45,819 --> 01:12:49,782
That's the Grateful Flow.
That was excellent. Did you feel anything?

1371
01:12:50,824 --> 01:12:55,954
I felt everything kind of just… slow down.

1372
01:12:56,038 --> 01:12:57,873
And I felt a warmth.

1373
01:12:57,956 --> 01:13:00,334
-[Stutz] Mm-hmm.
-Like in a sense of comfort.

1374
01:13:00,417 --> 01:13:02,086
[Stutz] That's pretty good.

1375
01:13:02,169 --> 01:13:06,423
The key is not saying the same things
over and over that you're grateful for.

1376
01:13:06,507 --> 01:13:08,509
You wanna make it a creative act.

1377
01:13:08,592 --> 01:13:12,137
When you have to dig and work on it
to find these things,

1378
01:13:12,888 --> 01:13:16,350
that process itself will change your mood.

1379
01:13:17,476 --> 01:13:20,854
The classic time to use it
is when your thoughts are out of control.

1380
01:13:20,938 --> 01:13:22,898
The worst thing to do is argue with them.

1381
01:13:22,981 --> 01:13:27,528
'Cause its effect on you is terrible,
and it does nothing for you.

1382
01:13:27,611 --> 01:13:31,990
But gratefulness is not just, "I'm lucky
somebody helped me," or whatever.

1383
01:13:32,074 --> 01:13:34,368
Gratefulness is the state
you want to be in

1384
01:13:34,451 --> 01:13:38,539
as often as you possibly can be in it,
because it's the state that connects you…

1385
01:13:38,622 --> 01:13:40,416
It's the state
that breaks through the cloud.

1386
01:13:40,499 --> 01:13:43,419
And once you're up there,
you're in a different world.

1387
01:13:44,044 --> 01:13:46,755
What Part X does
is to say you shouldn't be grateful.

1388
01:13:46,839 --> 01:13:49,049
It says, "You got screwed."

1389
01:13:50,217 --> 01:13:52,511
"You're a victim. You didn't get enough."

1390
01:13:52,594 --> 01:13:54,930
"Why should you be grateful
for what you have?"

1391
01:13:55,013 --> 01:13:57,641
That's the devil talking.
That's classic Part X.

1392
01:13:57,724 --> 01:13:59,726
[upbeat music ends]

1393
01:14:02,646 --> 01:14:06,900
I don't talk to you
about your Parkinson's a ton.

1394
01:14:06,984 --> 01:14:12,030
And I wonder what part of it is my fear
of just not wanting to acknowledge

1395
01:14:12,906 --> 01:14:15,909
my own fears around that stuff.

1396
01:14:16,493 --> 01:14:23,125
Yeah. I mean, my advice to you is assume
that you're probably underestimating me,

1397
01:14:23,959 --> 01:14:28,338
um, because I continue every day
to make adjustments,

1398
01:14:28,422 --> 01:14:30,048
and a lot of them are very helpful.

1399
01:14:30,132 --> 01:14:31,884
I don't know. I'm funny, you know?

1400
01:14:31,967 --> 01:14:36,096
That's not the kind of thing
that I think about a lot.

1401
01:14:36,180 --> 01:14:37,764
I think about the future,

1402
01:14:37,848 --> 01:14:44,438
but mostly, my biggest fear
is not getting enough done before I die.

1403
01:14:44,521 --> 01:14:46,106
-Hmm.
-'Cause I got so much--

1404
01:14:46,190 --> 01:14:50,903
The stuff we talked about here
is maybe, I don't know, 10% of it.

1405
01:14:50,986 --> 01:14:52,237
A sliver, yeah.

1406
01:14:53,655 --> 01:14:57,743
Yeah, I think death in itself is a really…

1407
01:14:59,661 --> 01:15:02,331
[exhales]
It's a complex subject for everybody.

1408
01:15:03,248 --> 01:15:07,294
For me, I am…

1409
01:15:10,214 --> 01:15:15,886
very scared to lose you particularly.

1410
01:15:15,969 --> 01:15:17,846
Not that that's on my mind all the time,

1411
01:15:17,930 --> 01:15:22,267
but, like, you are the person
I go to for life advice

1412
01:15:22,351 --> 01:15:29,233
and for a sense of comfort
that there is ways through things.

1413
01:15:29,316 --> 01:15:31,360
And at the same time,

1414
01:15:33,028 --> 01:15:36,281
you… the only time
I've had massive experience with death,

1415
01:15:36,365 --> 01:15:40,160
you were the person
that got me through that as well.

1416
01:15:40,244 --> 01:15:43,288
-You're talking about your brother?
-Yeah. Yeah.

1417
01:15:43,372 --> 01:15:46,375
And when he passed away unexpectedly

1418
01:15:46,875 --> 01:15:48,001
a few years ago,

1419
01:15:48,627 --> 01:15:53,048
and before I made this movie,
I didn't know

1420
01:15:53,131 --> 01:15:54,758
that you had lost your brother.

1421
01:15:54,841 --> 01:15:57,511
You told a story
about where you were that day.

1422
01:15:57,594 --> 01:15:59,846
-Oh yeah.
-You knew the spot where you were.

1423
01:15:59,930 --> 01:16:02,599
You went to school that day
and all those things and…

1424
01:16:02,683 --> 01:16:07,437
I spend a lot of my life
avoiding thinking about that day,

1425
01:16:08,021 --> 01:16:10,899
and I went to your office that morning.

1426
01:16:11,817 --> 01:16:14,278
It was definitely
the most intense day in my life.

1427
01:16:14,361 --> 01:16:18,782
It's definitely, like,
the most shook-up I've ever been.

1428
01:16:19,408 --> 01:16:25,872
One of the things I remember was,
that day, you said, "Give me your phone,"

1429
01:16:26,915 --> 01:16:28,375
and you took a picture of me.

1430
01:16:28,458 --> 01:16:33,964
And I, like, wondered why you did that?

1431
01:16:34,715 --> 01:16:38,635
It is very rare in life
that you get a chance to record something

1432
01:16:38,719 --> 01:16:42,222
at the climactic,
you know, most important moment.

1433
01:16:42,306 --> 01:16:43,932
And then you come back to it.

1434
01:16:44,016 --> 01:16:46,643
Whether it's in a week or a year,
it doesn't matter.

1435
01:16:46,727 --> 01:16:49,521
You… you have, um, a… There's a time gap.

1436
01:16:50,314 --> 01:16:51,690
And in that time gap,

1437
01:16:52,733 --> 01:16:56,778
you actually experience
the forces of healing, of recovery.

1438
01:16:58,238 --> 01:17:00,824
Yeah, I… I haven't looked at this picture

1439
01:17:01,575 --> 01:17:02,826
in four years.

1440
01:17:02,909 --> 01:17:03,785
Mm-hmm.

1441
01:17:04,286 --> 01:17:05,829
But I, like, printed it out,

1442
01:17:06,330 --> 01:17:09,458
because I wanted
to show you and look at it.

1443
01:17:12,169 --> 01:17:13,211
[Stutz inhales]

1444
01:17:20,260 --> 01:17:22,346
You haven't looked at it for four years?

1445
01:17:22,429 --> 01:17:23,388
[Jonah] No.

1446
01:17:34,775 --> 01:17:35,776
In a good way…

1447
01:17:41,448 --> 01:17:45,494
it's like it's… I look
stripped of everything fake.

1448
01:17:46,244 --> 01:17:47,204
[Stutz] Mm-hmm.

1449
01:17:47,287 --> 01:17:49,873
And there is
an oddly serene look on my face.

1450
01:17:49,956 --> 01:17:52,292
-[Stutz] There is.
-Which is, like, so bizarre.

1451
01:17:52,918 --> 01:17:57,255
But maybe because it, like, demolished…

1452
01:18:00,425 --> 01:18:02,219
everything that didn't matter.

1453
01:18:02,302 --> 01:18:05,639
[Stutz] It demolished everything
you thought you needed but you don't need.

1454
01:18:05,722 --> 01:18:09,601
That's the picture of somebody
who's gone through hell

1455
01:18:09,685 --> 01:18:11,520
and came out the other side

1456
01:18:12,020 --> 01:18:13,188
and is really okay,

1457
01:18:13,271 --> 01:18:16,233
in a very nondramatic way, which I like.

1458
01:18:17,192 --> 01:18:20,529
That's a picture of victory,
even though it might not look like it.

1459
01:18:32,416 --> 01:18:34,418
[piano music plays]

1460
01:18:39,214 --> 01:18:44,678
Loss Processing is a tool
that allows you to process loss, right?

1461
01:18:45,512 --> 01:18:47,472
And most people are very bad at it.

1462
01:18:47,556 --> 01:18:51,309
Not only are they bad when there's a loss
and they get depressed or bereft,

1463
01:18:51,810 --> 01:18:55,605
but before there's a loss,
they're just worrying about a loss.

1464
01:18:55,689 --> 01:18:59,568
The goal of this is to get what's called
the potency of nonattachment.

1465
01:18:59,651 --> 01:19:03,697
That means I can pursue something,
but I'm willing not to have it.

1466
01:19:03,780 --> 01:19:06,366
I still wanna pursue it.
I want to pursue it really hard.

1467
01:19:06,450 --> 01:19:08,118
But I'm also willing to lose.

1468
01:19:08,201 --> 01:19:10,871
The first thing I want you to do
is pick out something

1469
01:19:10,954 --> 01:19:13,373
that you feel
you've become too attached to.

1470
01:19:13,457 --> 01:19:17,377
It could be a person, a job,
something small. It doesn't matter.

1471
01:19:17,461 --> 01:19:20,881
But something where you're loath
to let go of it.

1472
01:19:20,964 --> 01:19:24,426
You're afraid, if you let go of it,
something terrible's gonna happen.

1473
01:19:25,218 --> 01:19:26,928
-You have it?
-Mm-hmm.

1474
01:19:27,012 --> 01:19:28,013
[Stutz] Okay.

1475
01:19:30,849 --> 01:19:33,393
Now imagine you're grasping this thing.

1476
01:19:33,477 --> 01:19:36,271
And if it's not a material thing,
it doesn't matter.

1477
01:19:36,354 --> 01:19:38,190
Just imagine you're grasping it,

1478
01:19:38,273 --> 01:19:40,942
like you're grasping
onto a branch on a tree.

1479
01:19:43,028 --> 01:19:45,781
It's scary. You're afraid to let go.

1480
01:19:47,324 --> 01:19:48,658
But you let go anyway.

1481
01:19:49,242 --> 01:19:51,369
And when you let go, you start to fall.

1482
01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:54,456
It's not a bad sensation though.

1483
01:19:54,539 --> 01:19:58,710
The falling is actually kind of slow
and gentle, to your surprise,

1484
01:19:59,336 --> 01:20:00,629
but you're dropping down.

1485
01:20:01,338 --> 01:20:06,134
And you say,
"I'm willing to lose everything."

1486
01:20:07,052 --> 01:20:09,012
And you have to say it silently,

1487
01:20:09,095 --> 01:20:12,933
but you want to really feel
the, uh, intent behind that.

1488
01:20:13,016 --> 01:20:14,518
And the moment you say that,

1489
01:20:14,601 --> 01:20:17,687
you hit the surface of a sun
that was down there below you,

1490
01:20:17,771 --> 01:20:19,272
and your body burns up.

1491
01:20:20,148 --> 01:20:22,108
Now, at that point,
you have lost everything,

1492
01:20:22,192 --> 01:20:26,655
because the instrument of possession
is your physical body.

1493
01:20:26,738 --> 01:20:29,699
So if your physical body's burnt up,
you're just one sunbeam

1494
01:20:29,783 --> 01:20:32,035
amongst all these other sunbeams.

1495
01:20:32,619 --> 01:20:35,288
You're radiating outward
in all directions,

1496
01:20:35,372 --> 01:20:38,416
and what you're radiating
is a very loving,

1497
01:20:38,500 --> 01:20:41,461
giving, outflowing sensation.

1498
01:20:42,462 --> 01:20:43,922
And then you look around,

1499
01:20:44,005 --> 01:20:47,968
and you see, all around you,
an infinite number of other suns,

1500
01:20:48,051 --> 01:20:51,972
just like the one you're inside of,
all of which are radiating outwards.

1501
01:20:52,055 --> 01:20:54,975
And then you hear the suns,
all of them, saying in unison,

1502
01:20:55,475 --> 01:20:57,394
"We are everywhere."

1503
01:20:58,436 --> 01:21:00,397
This world is called a sun world.

1504
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:02,983
All you can do is give. You can't take.

1505
01:21:03,066 --> 01:21:05,151
You can't grasp.
You can't hold on to anything.

1506
01:21:05,235 --> 01:21:06,152
It's just impossible.

1507
01:21:07,362 --> 01:21:08,989
Now you can open your eyes.

1508
01:21:10,407 --> 01:21:11,449
How'd it feel?

1509
01:21:12,409 --> 01:21:13,243
[Jonah] Great.

1510
01:21:13,869 --> 01:21:16,246
-You don't wanna say anything else?
-Yeah, I do.

1511
01:21:16,830 --> 01:21:20,584
Which is, I'm very good at nonattachment

1512
01:21:20,667 --> 01:21:25,338
to, like, a job or an identity
or a beef with someone.

1513
01:21:25,422 --> 01:21:28,049
I can get there
and use the tools to get there.

1514
01:21:28,550 --> 01:21:32,804
When it comes to things
like a romantic relationship

1515
01:21:32,888 --> 01:21:35,724
or a family member that I love,

1516
01:21:35,807 --> 01:21:38,602
the idea of losing those things,

1517
01:21:38,685 --> 01:21:40,729
I struggle with that concept.

1518
01:21:40,812 --> 01:21:44,691
Think about it like this.
You're not trying to become nonattached.

1519
01:21:44,774 --> 01:21:48,236
You're trying to move
towards nonattachment

1520
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:50,655
every time you get scared of a loss.

1521
01:21:50,739 --> 01:21:51,907
For most people,

1522
01:21:51,990 --> 01:21:55,243
they've never been nonattached
for one second in their whole life.

1523
01:21:55,327 --> 01:21:57,954
So even the fact
that they can move towards that

1524
01:21:58,038 --> 01:21:59,581
is… is helpful for them.

1525
01:22:00,081 --> 01:22:01,666
If you're human, it's not possible.

1526
01:22:01,750 --> 01:22:04,336
It wouldn't even be good
if you were totally nonattached.

1527
01:22:04,419 --> 01:22:06,046
That makes a lot of sense.

1528
01:22:06,129 --> 01:22:08,840
So the goal
is not to become completely nonattached.

1529
01:22:08,924 --> 01:22:09,799
No.

1530
01:22:09,883 --> 01:22:14,054
It's work towards
no one person, place, or thing leaving you

1531
01:22:14,137 --> 01:22:16,431
can completely take away
your whole existence

1532
01:22:16,514 --> 01:22:17,807
and your sense of wholeness.

1533
01:22:17,891 --> 01:22:18,808
That's correct.

1534
01:22:22,354 --> 01:22:24,064
I don't wanna leave anything
in the shadows,

1535
01:22:24,147 --> 01:22:27,943
because I don't want it to become
this, like, thing that eats at me.

1536
01:22:28,026 --> 01:22:29,986
And even your fears, I think,
when you say them,

1537
01:22:30,070 --> 01:22:33,323
or your pain, when you say it,
does set you free in a lot of ways.

1538
01:22:33,406 --> 01:22:34,741
[Stutz] Yeah, it does.

1539
01:22:34,824 --> 01:22:37,911
[Jonah] And I use Loss Processing,
and it really helps.

1540
01:22:38,411 --> 01:22:41,998
I wanna be like a monk and be like,
"These tools just help it all dissolve,"

1541
01:22:42,082 --> 01:22:44,125
but I still feel that pain every day.

1542
01:22:44,209 --> 01:22:45,543
-You know?
-Yeah.

1543
01:22:45,627 --> 01:22:47,337
[Jonah] I still miss my brother.

1544
01:22:48,046 --> 01:22:50,465
[Stutz] Yeah,
you will for a very long time.

1545
01:22:50,966 --> 01:22:52,592
But let me put it this way.

1546
01:22:53,593 --> 01:22:56,471
Death is not a permanent condition.

1547
01:22:57,305 --> 01:22:59,933
You can… you can be
afraid of death, that's fine,

1548
01:23:00,016 --> 01:23:02,811
as long as you feel something after death.

1549
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:04,729
And that's rebirth.

1550
01:23:04,813 --> 01:23:09,150
The idea that rebirth is possible
from the very worst,

1551
01:23:09,234 --> 01:23:12,487
the dregs of the world,
dregs of experience,

1552
01:23:12,570 --> 01:23:15,991
and you can make something
cyclically come alive again.

1553
01:23:16,074 --> 01:23:18,952
That's the closest
a human being can get to God.

1554
01:23:19,911 --> 01:23:20,996
[Jonah] Hmm.

1555
01:23:21,705 --> 01:23:26,918
Yeah, I understand it's just a reality
and that life just does go on.

1556
01:23:28,044 --> 01:23:32,340
But there's very few people on that list
that I just don't want to fucking lose so…

1557
01:23:36,511 --> 01:23:38,430
I don't want to lose you either.

1558
01:23:41,558 --> 01:23:42,934
What do I do? [chuckles]

1559
01:23:43,018 --> 01:23:44,561
I think we should get married.

1560
01:23:45,061 --> 01:23:47,272
-I want a prenup.
-[Jonah laughs]

1561
01:23:47,355 --> 01:23:50,066
[melancholic music plays]

1562
01:23:54,404 --> 01:23:55,822
[paper swishing]

1563
01:23:57,949 --> 01:23:59,868
Oh, yeah, here we go,
some of the good ones.

1564
01:23:59,951 --> 01:24:01,077
These are so sick.

1565
01:24:01,870 --> 01:24:02,996
[Stutz] Yeah, this…

1566
01:24:03,496 --> 01:24:06,708
[Jonah] One of the things
that this movie is accomplishing for me

1567
01:24:06,791 --> 01:24:08,043
while I'm making it

1568
01:24:08,543 --> 01:24:12,047
is that I used to think
that the people I look up to

1569
01:24:12,130 --> 01:24:14,883
are absolved of the problems that I have.

1570
01:24:14,966 --> 01:24:17,177
[laughs] I'm sorry.

1571
01:24:17,260 --> 01:24:18,762
I understand. I under--

1572
01:24:18,845 --> 01:24:22,015
[Jonah] It's absurd. I know.
It really is absurd. It's not…

1573
01:24:22,098 --> 01:24:22,974
[splutters]

1574
01:24:23,058 --> 01:24:24,976
-You're laughing 'cause it's absurd.
-Yeah.

1575
01:24:25,477 --> 01:24:28,313
Right. And I think
it's good for people to see

1576
01:24:28,396 --> 01:24:30,982
that you, for me,
are someone who's created these things,

1577
01:24:31,066 --> 01:24:34,444
and I think it's important
that people who we look up to

1578
01:24:34,527 --> 01:24:38,281
aren't exempt from all the problems
that we ourselves have.

1579
01:24:38,364 --> 01:24:41,659
You are still in the struggle
and in the fight of being a human

1580
01:24:41,743 --> 01:24:43,161
just like everybody else is.

1581
01:24:44,954 --> 01:24:48,458
Your whole thing is
that you're never exempt from the pain

1582
01:24:48,541 --> 01:24:51,127
or the uncertainty or the constant work.

1583
01:24:51,211 --> 01:24:56,883
And I think there's something beautiful
about seeing your vulnerability,

1584
01:24:57,467 --> 01:24:59,761
for me, that dissects

1585
01:24:59,844 --> 01:25:02,680
that there will never be anyone
that has it all figured out.

1586
01:25:02,764 --> 01:25:03,598
Yeah.

1587
01:25:05,058 --> 01:25:06,601
That's the secret of life.

1588
01:25:08,895 --> 01:25:11,022
-As far as I'm concerned.
-Is what?

1589
01:25:11,106 --> 01:25:14,275
[Stutz] Accepting that
you won't figure it out ever.

1590
01:25:14,359 --> 01:25:15,985
Nobody else will figure it out.

1591
01:25:16,069 --> 01:25:19,697
Happiness depends on how you accept that

1592
01:25:20,448 --> 01:25:22,033
and what you do about it.

1593
01:25:22,117 --> 01:25:25,370
But first is accept it,
because if you don't accept it,

1594
01:25:25,453 --> 01:25:28,957
you have this thing in your mind
that I can get over it

1595
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,835
or under it and eliminate it,
and you can't.

1596
01:25:32,335 --> 01:25:33,253
Hmm.

1597
01:25:41,845 --> 01:25:44,097
This is such a great moment right now.

1598
01:25:48,768 --> 01:25:52,730
Could you guys stay just like this,
and I'm gonna go home and go to sleep?

1599
01:25:53,231 --> 01:25:56,401
When I get back here in the morning,
I want to find you just…

1600
01:25:56,901 --> 01:25:58,903
-Would that be reasonable?
-[Jonah] Yeah.

1601
01:25:59,821 --> 01:26:00,655
Are you tired?

1602
01:26:01,364 --> 01:26:04,367
-Yeah, I'm kind of tired.
-[Jonah] All right, go lay down.

1603
01:26:06,035 --> 01:26:07,412
[loud thud]

1604
01:26:34,814 --> 01:26:36,566
What do you see when you close your eyes?

1605
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:40,778
I see an ocean.

1606
01:26:42,113 --> 01:26:46,367
And it's a beautiful beach,
and the waves are--

1607
01:26:46,451 --> 01:26:50,205
They're not huge waves.
They're just perfectly formed waves.

1608
01:26:52,373 --> 01:26:54,918
And they're running
up and down my body now.

1609
01:26:57,754 --> 01:26:59,505
[Jonah] Is the water warm or cold?

1610
01:27:00,006 --> 01:27:00,840
Warm.

1611
01:27:01,674 --> 01:27:03,676
[waves lapping]

1612
01:27:09,224 --> 01:27:13,186
You know what my mother said when
my brother, um, went into the hospital?

1613
01:27:13,770 --> 01:27:18,983
She said, "He went… he…
he entered it as an infant,"

1614
01:27:19,067 --> 01:27:20,777
or, you know, he was three,

1615
01:27:21,277 --> 01:27:25,740
"but three months later," I think
it was three months later when he died,

1616
01:27:25,823 --> 01:27:27,242
"he was a grown man."

1617
01:27:28,701 --> 01:27:29,994
Um…

1618
01:27:30,078 --> 01:27:32,455
So something… He was transformed.

1619
01:27:33,456 --> 01:27:37,168
It made me feel so, um, sad, but also,

1620
01:27:37,835 --> 01:27:38,670
uh…

1621
01:27:41,422 --> 01:27:43,132
Also in awe, I guess.

1622
01:27:56,980 --> 01:27:59,232
-[Jonah] Can you see him now?
-[exhales] What?

1623
01:27:59,315 --> 01:28:00,650
[Jonah] You see him now?

1624
01:28:02,193 --> 01:28:05,071
Yeah, I mean, it's…
He… he's not particularly--

1625
01:28:05,154 --> 01:28:08,908
I feel that that is my brother,
but, you know, he feels like…

1626
01:28:08,992 --> 01:28:11,035
He feels like he's your age, actually.

1627
01:28:20,295 --> 01:28:22,338
He says… [inhales]

1628
01:28:22,422 --> 01:28:27,218
…he didn't give me
enough advance warning about his death.

1629
01:28:29,095 --> 01:28:29,971
He's saying…

1630
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:38,146
He's saying it didn't bother him
that much. He… he knew about it.

1631
01:28:40,273 --> 01:28:44,068
I don't see how he could have… told me.

1632
01:28:44,861 --> 01:28:46,362
Maybe. I don't know.

1633
01:28:46,446 --> 01:28:49,824
I swear, I know this is impossible,
but I'm having this feeling

1634
01:28:50,325 --> 01:28:51,993
as if I'm flying.

1635
01:28:53,369 --> 01:28:55,371
[wind blowing]

1636
01:29:01,336 --> 01:29:02,587
[Jonah] How does it feel?

1637
01:29:03,379 --> 01:29:04,213
Great.

1638
01:29:05,006 --> 01:29:07,383
[melancholic music plays]

1639
01:29:10,178 --> 01:29:11,387
Can I, uh, sit up?

1640
01:29:12,388 --> 01:29:14,307
[Jonah] You're flying through the air?

1641
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:18,311
Well, I'm… I'm hoping
that'll stop when my feet…

1642
01:29:18,394 --> 01:29:19,854
[both laugh]

1643
01:29:19,937 --> 01:29:21,814
[splutters] Are you insured for that?

1644
01:29:21,898 --> 01:29:24,150
-[Jonah laughs] Yeah, you wanna sit up?
-Yeah.

1645
01:29:24,233 --> 01:29:25,985
[Jonah] Yeah, sit up. Of course.

1646
01:29:29,405 --> 01:29:31,366
-This is a nice room.
-[Jonah laughs]

1647
01:29:31,449 --> 01:29:32,325
Wow.

1648
01:29:36,704 --> 01:29:39,999
This is the real challenge for me
every day, is to get out of bed.

1649
01:29:42,627 --> 01:29:45,838
Maybe it's just an attempt
to gain control over me or…

1650
01:29:47,757 --> 01:29:49,050
I'm not sure. Why did you?

1651
01:29:49,133 --> 01:29:50,385
[Jonah] All those reasons.

1652
01:29:50,468 --> 01:29:52,720
-Should somebody grab your medicine?
-Yeah.

1653
01:29:52,804 --> 01:29:55,306
I like the background the way it is,

1654
01:29:56,057 --> 01:29:58,309
because a lot of people have dreams

1655
01:29:59,018 --> 01:30:03,481
where they… they have… they discover
another bedroom in their house,

1656
01:30:03,564 --> 01:30:06,609
or sometimes they'll discover,
like, a whole huge thing.

1657
01:30:06,692 --> 01:30:10,530
What it really means in the dream world
is you're becoming more conscious.

1658
01:30:10,613 --> 01:30:12,782
Your view of the universe is expanding.

1659
01:30:12,865 --> 01:30:17,412
So people have dreams that there's a room
in their house that's not there,

1660
01:30:17,495 --> 01:30:19,622
and it means their mind is expanding
or they're growing?

1661
01:30:19,705 --> 01:30:20,832
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

1662
01:30:21,332 --> 01:30:22,458
That's crazy.

1663
01:30:22,542 --> 01:30:25,128
…won't recover.
I say, "Do what the fuck I tell you."

1664
01:30:25,211 --> 01:30:28,089
"Do exactly what I tell you.
I guarantee you'll feel better."

1665
01:30:28,172 --> 01:30:29,465
[Jonah] Wait, I have an idea.

1666
01:30:29,549 --> 01:30:30,466
Yeah, go ahead.

1667
01:30:31,175 --> 01:30:33,428
[Jonah] Since we already shot
the opening of the movie,

1668
01:30:34,345 --> 01:30:36,389
this might be for the end of the movie,

1669
01:30:36,889 --> 01:30:43,146
if we're saying why I made this movie now,
after all we've been through.

1670
01:30:43,688 --> 01:30:44,522
Oh.

1671
01:30:45,440 --> 01:30:46,274
That's good.

1672
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,235
See if you can… just really fast,

1673
01:30:49,318 --> 01:30:53,156
see if you can say the beginning,
and then, right after that, say the end.

1674
01:30:53,823 --> 01:30:54,740
Hmm.

1675
01:30:59,954 --> 01:31:01,414
I'm making this movie

1676
01:31:02,540 --> 01:31:07,086
because I want to give therapy
and the tools I've learned in therapy

1677
01:31:07,628 --> 01:31:11,299
to as many people as possible

1678
01:31:11,382 --> 01:31:12,467
through a film.

1679
01:31:23,519 --> 01:31:24,854
I made this movie

1680
01:31:26,481 --> 01:31:27,690
because I love Phil…

1681
01:31:29,775 --> 01:31:36,240
because I love the life
these tools allowed for me to have.

1682
01:31:36,782 --> 01:31:37,658
[Stutz] Hmm.

1683
01:31:40,286 --> 01:31:42,830
And it doesn't matter
what people think about the movie.

1684
01:31:42,914 --> 01:31:44,999
It just matters that we finished it.

1685
01:31:47,460 --> 01:31:48,294
Together.

1686
01:31:50,171 --> 01:31:53,549
Yeah, I feel closer to you now
than when we started,

1687
01:31:53,633 --> 01:31:55,551
which I think is a great sign.

1688
01:31:55,635 --> 01:31:59,430
It's also great luck for me,
you know, at age 74.

1689
01:32:03,684 --> 01:32:04,519
I love you.

1690
01:32:05,436 --> 01:32:06,270
I love you.

1691
01:32:10,483 --> 01:32:13,236
I still wish you would stop
dumping so much shit on me.

1692
01:32:13,319 --> 01:32:14,362
[Jonah laughs]

1693
01:32:17,073 --> 01:32:19,075
["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey plays]

1694
01:32:25,623 --> 01:32:28,834
♪ The last long day she said goodbye ♪

1695
01:32:30,628 --> 01:32:34,257
♪ Well, Lord, I thought I would cry ♪

1696
01:32:35,967 --> 01:32:39,178
♪ She'll do me, she'll do you
She's got that kind of loving ♪

1697
01:32:39,262 --> 01:32:43,891
♪ Lord, I love to hear her
When she calls me sweet daddy ♪

1698
01:32:43,975 --> 01:32:46,394
♪ Such a beautiful dream… ♪

1699
01:32:47,478 --> 01:32:49,689
[Jonah] When we shot, like, months ago,

1700
01:32:49,772 --> 01:32:53,609
you had mentioned a relationship that was
kind of on and off for a long time,

1701
01:32:53,693 --> 01:32:56,153
and then you mentioned to me
briefly in a phone call

1702
01:32:56,237 --> 01:32:58,823
how you had reached out to that person,

1703
01:32:58,906 --> 01:33:02,660
and I wanna ask you about it
but only if you wanna talk about it.

1704
01:33:02,743 --> 01:33:04,078
[laughs]

1705
01:33:04,161 --> 01:33:05,538
It's so amazing.

1706
01:33:05,621 --> 01:33:08,958
This is-- She's the closest person
in the world to me.

1707
01:33:09,041 --> 01:33:12,003
Mostly, when we were younger,
not wanting to be in a relationship,

1708
01:33:12,086 --> 01:33:13,129
mostly it was me.

1709
01:33:13,212 --> 01:33:15,673
I didn't have the will to make it work.

1710
01:33:16,257 --> 01:33:17,216
Now I do.

1711
01:33:17,300 --> 01:33:21,470
-Did you reach out after our conversation?
-Yeah, it actually… it helped me. Yeah.

1712
01:33:21,554 --> 01:33:25,641
-Our conversation made me a bit ashamed.
-[Jonah] In what way?

1713
01:33:25,725 --> 01:33:30,438
That I was doing something,
like, without full commitment,

1714
01:33:30,521 --> 01:33:31,814
like in a half-assed way.

1715
01:33:31,897 --> 01:33:33,816
So that was very helpful.

1716
01:33:33,899 --> 01:33:37,945
Who do you think's more scared
of trying it out for real between you two?

1717
01:33:38,029 --> 01:33:38,863
You or her?

1718
01:33:38,946 --> 01:33:40,615
Oh, me, 100%.

1719
01:33:40,698 --> 01:33:45,620
You think you'll be able
to let down some walls

1720
01:33:45,703 --> 01:33:49,123
and put some fears aside to try,
or you want to?

1721
01:33:49,206 --> 01:33:51,709
[splutters] Yeah, I'm going to. Yeah.

1722
01:33:51,792 --> 01:33:54,128
What would be the hopeful outcome?

1723
01:33:54,211 --> 01:33:56,464
The hopeful outcome is it works out.

1724
01:33:57,882 --> 01:33:59,717
That would be the hopeful outcome.

1725
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:01,969
["Lovesick Blues"
by Mason Ramsey continues]

1726
01:34:03,346 --> 01:34:07,141
♪ I've grown so used to you somehow ♪

1727
01:34:11,937 --> 01:34:15,483
♪ Well, Lord, I thought I would cry ♪

1728
01:34:20,363 --> 01:34:23,074
♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

1729
01:34:26,661 --> 01:34:29,038
♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

1730
01:34:31,499 --> 01:34:35,169
♪ I've grown so used to you somehow ♪

1731
01:34:37,254 --> 01:34:41,509
♪ Daddy, such a beautiful dream ♪

1732
01:34:42,176 --> 01:34:45,221
♪ I hate to think it's all over ♪

1733
01:34:45,304 --> 01:34:48,683
♪ I've lost my heart it seems ♪

1734
01:34:51,394 --> 01:34:54,939
♪ I've lost my heart it seems ♪

1735
01:34:57,858 --> 01:35:01,195
♪ I've lost my heart it seems ♪

1736
01:35:29,056 --> 01:35:31,434
♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

1737
01:35:35,312 --> 01:35:37,732
♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

1738
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:44,029
♪ Such a beautiful dream ♪

1739
01:35:56,208 --> 01:35:58,210
["Lovesick Blues" by Mason Ramsey ends]